THEATRE GOSSIP #441: Broadway Tricks & Treats for Halloween!

Whoever told Barbara Nichols she could sing should be shot.

Well, Ari Stachel is OUT of The Visitor. The Public announced a little while ago.

But what is the story, r2? There must be a story!

[quote]Well, Ari Stachel is OUT of The Visitor. The Public announced a little while ago.

I shudder to think what insane SJW bullshit brought this about. I guess we'll find out shortly.

She’s a Fay, not a Cora.

He sounds tiresome.

What's most perplexing and upsetting about the Ari'el/VISITOR situation is that he was involved in workshops of the show FOR 6 YEARS!!!! How could the issues have not been addressed (one way or the other) in all that time??

But then again I've worked with Dan Sullivan several times and he's a man of few words and little patience to talk things through with those who disagree with him. And he is very smart, if a bit old school at this point, so actors rarely disagree with him.

And what's also puzzling is that in the article linked at r6, it sounds like Sullivan and the creators allowed Stachel not to speak the character with a foreign accent and yet he still left the production. So why then did he leave and why must the character perfectly align with Stachel's own life experiences?

He really needs to make a statement of his own as he's not coming off very well from all of this bad publicity.

Last time I can recall a recent Best supporting actor Tony winner dropped out/was replaced was Christian Hoff from the last Broadway revival of "Pal Joey'. His theatrical career hasn't seemed to recover. Suposedly (on WIki) because of an injury, but wasn't the new Joey a boyfriend of someone?

sorry, Supposedly

This is what happens when you fall all over yourselves to appease the militant woke-brigade who are trying to turn rehearsals into social justice symposiums and therapy sessions. No one in charge is in charge. Hours and days are wasted listening to actors whine and defy the staff after 18 months of no work. End the madness.

Here is the next generation of theater “professionals.”

[quote] On Sept. 16, a visiting artist was working with two students of color after class, and one student expressed that she felt isolated and would like to get to know other non-white students in the department. The visiting artist asked about whether it might be helpful for non-white students to connect as a group, and she and the students wrote out the names of other non-white students on the classroom whiteboard while brainstorming ideas.

[quote] The names were still on the board when the next class arrived, and several of the entering students were offended, believing that whoever had written the list must have been singling out non-white students. They decided to hold a protest in a campus courtyard on Sept. 21 instead of attending class.

Shows will not report grosses this season? It would be very interesting to know how full theatres are. I heard somewhere tickets to all kinds of events in LA are selling fast. Is it so?

Did none of these people read the script? Or did they just assume once they got in the rehearsal room they could demand changes on the basis of labeling the environment "unsafe"?

I had a writer friend in a similar situation at a regional theater on the west coast. His piece was read and workshopped over two years with the same cast. It finally went into production and in the second week of a three week rehearsal process, one of the actors (who’d been with the piece the whole two years) expressed a concern that set everything on end, basically calling the piece racist and necessitating that the whole thing be rewritten. It was a disaster and no one emerged unscathed.

At some point you just want to ask, "Did these issues not exist two years ago? Or do you just want more attention?" There is a reality where people are just finding the courage to state their opinions now; I get that. But two weeks from the first preview is not the best time to completely upset the apple cart. If your gut is telling you it’s a rotten gig, just don’t do it.

That would be the rational thing to do, r15. Don't do it. But these people are hell-bent on destruction.

Re: Ari’el Stachel

[quote]He really needs to make a statement of his own as he's not coming off very well from all of this bad publicity.

If the rumors are true, the NDA's signed by all involved may prevent him from saying much.

It's time for Osker to go, he's been in charge long enough.

R12 I was going to say what will happen when one of these precious little darlings gets a bad review, but let's face it, none of them are ever going to get a job in the theatre.

After seeing that Barbara Nichols post in dozens of previous threads, I finally listened to that song. Jesus, what an annoying voice and a mediocre song. It’s not even fun-bad. It’s just bad.

That's the point of posting it, r19.

R 19 I loved "Let It Ride". I had the LP as a child and loved George Gobel and Barbara Nichols. And actually, her song was "stolen" by Comden and Green and was stuck into "Subways Are For Sleeping". It was called "I Was A Shoo-in". It won a Tony award for Greene's wife, Phyllis Newman.

I wonder what the SJW's would think of this new musical out of Seattle...

I'm not so sure there were any NDAs signed by anyone at The Public. When during the contract negotiations or rehearsal process would this have happened in a show that work shopped for 6 years? I've worked there numerous times over many years and was never asked to sign one. It's a very liberal organization (that can't be news here) and NDAs are just not part of the vibe there ever.

Now, there may have been some informal agreement among everyone not to talk but I can't believe it was ever legally pursued and documented.

In any case, more specific info needs to be forthcoming because this shroud of mystery makes everyone on all sides look villainous.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1971, "Ain't Supposed to Die a Natural Death" opened at the Ethel Barrymore Theatre.

r24 - Tony Awards...

Was it Barbara Nichols who was a lesbian girl toy?

From the last thread: WAS was turned into a musical and it was awful. It was peddling around for years...

The saddest part about the woke crowd is that if they put all that young energy into something productive -- i.e. registering voters, manning phones for out of state candidates -- something might actually happening. Worrying about representation in "MORMAN" ain't gonna change a lot. Or they could actually buy a ticket for a new play...

Why do these threads fly threw the first couple of hundred postings and then drag on for weeks in the last hundred?

Mme. Mure closes it down for only people who pay.

[quote]He really needs to make a statement of his own as he's not coming off very well from all of this bad publicity.

To put it mildly. I can't imagine any statement from him would make his behavior seem more rational, but I suppose it's possible. And regardless, yesm he should explain his thoughts in his own public statement.

On the plus side, Ari’el is still hot.

Has anyone else watched Ian McKellen’s one-man show streaming on National Theatre at Home? It’s a treat, and I wish I’d seen it live (I saw his other one-man show, Acting Shakespeare, I believe it was called, a hundred years ago). He talked briefly about the ‘70s Macbeth he did with Judi Dench, which I also saw (it was so good I’ve never seen Macbeth on stage again; there’s no way to top that production, and the DVD of it doesn’t quite do it justice). I wish other great actors of his era — Derek Jacobi, Patrick Stewart, Eileen Atkinson, etc. — would put together similar shows. They’re a dying breed, and it would be good to hear their stories and celebrate their talent.

[quote]I was going to say what will happen when one of these precious little darlings gets a bad review, but let's face it, none of them are ever going to get a job in the theatre.

I think you know the answer to your question: If any of them ever does get a job in the theatre and ever gets a bad review, they will likely cry that it's due to racism.

Broadway Is Back. Here’s What It’s Like for Theatergoers:

Anyone in NYC happen to notice the CBS News broadcast at 11:00 has begun covering the openings of Broadway shows, but only the ones with POC. Not a peep about the opening of "Dana H." or "Is This A Room". If CBS is going to be all-inclusive how about covering ALL the Broadway shows re-opening, and not just the ones with Black Or Latino cast members?

(sound of crickets)

I just read the Wikipedia entry on Ari'el Stachel for the first time, and damn! To say that he has had some SERIOUS issues in regard to accepting his ethnic heritage would be an understatement. I imagine all of that factored greatly into what happened with THE VISITOR.

[Quote] these threads fly threw the first couple of hundred postings

Oh, dear, my stars!

And still no coverage in the New York Times even with the participation of David Hyde Pierce, the public, Kitt & Yorkey etc. too busy profiling the fifth Black ensemble member from the left, And the black conductor, and the black prima ballerina, and the black jazz musician, and the black classical violinist, and the black sculptor

It's getting tiring, isn't it?

r39, unless the NY Times can secure an interview with Stachel or any of the VISITOR creatives, what do you expect an article to uncover and tell us beyond what's already been said in the Playbill,com articles?

[quote] In any case, more specific info needs to be forthcoming because this shroud of mystery makes everyone on all sides look villainous.

Creative differences.

Happy dear?

[quote] opened at the Ethel Barrymore Theatre.

Or as we in the biz called it: the Eth Bar

R21, if you'd seen Phyllis Newman perform "I Was a Shoo-In" her Tony would make sense. She was fantastic.

Gina's take...

how do you suddenly have "creative differences" over a play you've been in for 6 years.

Tis the season. . .

Bummed to realize that one of the Valens/Shakelton videos I’d saved that was then part of the cull was the Mary Louise Wilson documentary. Is there any other way to see it? I don’t think it’s streaming anywhere anymore, even as a rental.

[quote]Unless the NY Times can secure an interview with Stachel or any of the VISITOR creatives, what do you expect an article to uncover and tell us beyond what's already been said in the Playbill,com articles?

Even if the Times couldn't get a single person to talk further, they have a responsibility to report what's known about the situation based on what has been said and what has happened recently. Not to mention researching the issues that have arisen throughout this project, as the writer of the excellent Deadline article did so well. Does that answer your stupid question?

"But these people are hell-bent on destruction."

And you stop them by firing their asses for insubordination. End of story.

"The names were still on the board when the next class arrived, and several of the entering students were offended, believing that whoever had written the list must have been singling out non-white students. They decided to hold a protest in a campus courtyard on Sept. 21 instead of attending class.:"

So did the isolated student come to the professor's aid and clear up the misunderstanding with the other students?

R48 After I get out of fucking lockdown will re-up it. And Rock Follies for someone upthread.

[quote]Best supporting actor Tony winner

Oh, dear.

[quote] Even if the Times couldn't get a single person to talk further, they have a responsibility to report what's known about the situation based on what has been said and what has happened recently. Not to mention researching the issues that have arisen throughout this project, as the writer of the excellent Deadline article did so well. Does that answer your stupid question?

Oh, r49, you were doing so well until that last assholey rejoinder at the end. Uncalled for.

But, yes, r41, it's called 'journalism' or 'reporting,' and it's supposed to [italic]not[/italic] rely on press releases and easy-access interviews. If theater is your beat, cover it, damn it. Shoe-leather. Remember that? Not running anything at all is making your "newspaper of record" incomplete, even if that's how The Public Theater and Oskar would like it.

R54, I agree that my last remark wasn't necessary. It WAS a stupid question, and you yourself pointed out why. But I agree that I didn't HAVE to call it that.

R52 where are you where there's a lockdown?

Maybe, maaaaaybe some of you have heard of the actress Martha Henry?

Anyway, she's dead.

Anyone here have Stachel? He is quite a piece

R58, and also, apparently, quite a piece of work. I hope that anyone who's had him was able to muzzle or gag him while doing the deed.

thanks r55. And meanwhile the Times still hasn't mentioned it.

Martha Henry was a GREAT actor, something we don't see much of on Broadway anymore.

R56 New Zealand. Our government is kinda insane.

Bless Martha Henry. She got a chance to be on stage one last time. RIP

Your government's one of the very few that got out in front of the virus. Doesn't seem so insane to me!

and this is Ari'el's replacement

R65 Here's all of him. Fair to say he's a member of the BBDC

Seeing that I'm like Ari'el WHO??

Such a stupid and sad situation. He joins Ms. Olivo in a career in television and film. Good for them.

Will his replacement be exhibiting that big ol' thing in the play?

[quote]Will his replacement be exhibiting that big ol' thing in the play? —That could fill some seats

Mine being one of them.

Maybe he can go into Take Me Out after The Visitor closes.

[quote]Maybe he can go into Take Me Out after The Visitor closes.

Or just take me out after it closes.

*scribbles "Mr. Ahmad Maksoud" repeatedly in notebook*

r69 where do you want his visitor to visit?

Wherever it wants, R74.

David Hyde Pierce must be dee-lighted!

Emphasis on the D

Add this one to the Guinness Book of Fucking Morons:

I imagine he thinks of this as a good career move r78.

[quote]That could fill some seats

And dampen them.

Meanwhile, 'Dopesick' on Hulu features a ton of Broadway stalwarts alongside stars Michael Keaton, Michael Stuhlbarg and Peter Sarsgaard. Walter Bobbie, Carolee Carmello, Mark Jacoby, Will Chase and a host of others have popped in so far.

Vanessa Williams practically screams "Cora" to me in Anyone Can Whistle. She does that deluded, entitled thing really well in Ugly Betty and Desperate Housewives and the score will sit beautifully in her range. This mind end up being a big triumph for her.

[quote] Maybe, maaaaaybe some of you have heard of the actress Martha Henry? Anyway, she's dead.

I only know her from one thing, a 1986 Canadian film called Dancing in the Dark where she plays a woman who's murdered her husband. I rented it from Tower Video because it sounded interesting and all the other new releases were out. It was the first and only time I've ever seen or heard of her and I never forgot the performance, even 35 years later.

r83...

Canadian actors are on the whole fucking bland and so was Martha Henry but she did have good technique.

I'm suspicious of any actors who remained in Canada for their entire careers.

R86 how come?

"I'm suspicious of any actors who remained in Canada for their entire careers."

USA! USA! USA!

LOL-ing at the picture with R35's post. I've seen many plays where it turned out I'd rather have paid for someone to put a stick up my nose instead.

[quote]Vanessa Williams practically screams "Cora"

As do I, when my coffee is not up to snuff.

Considering the article at R78, I suspect Chad Kimball will win that lawsuit, although he’s such a pompous douchebag.

R87 - Watch 'Slings & Arrows'. It sends up not only Stratford (and Shaw) Festival but also the kind of Canadian actors who stay firmly in the smaller (and highly insular/protective) Canadian stage/tv/film system. There are actors who have been in the companies of those festivals upwards of 40 years, spending their off seasons doing Canadian TV and film and/or teaching. It's a very different business up north!

r87, I worked up at the Stratford Festival one season (though I'm American) and found it mostly a center of utter mediocrity. Provincial is the perfect word.

The blandest actors in the world are Canadian. I know Brent Carver had a lot of admirers here but Jesus, he was bland as hell.

R86 - kind of nails it. Provincial is indeed the word. A lot of mediocrity that amounted to actors entering, shouting their lines and exiting. Occasionally, you'd get lucky when a Plummer would anchor a Stratford production, but the disparity in some ways only became more pronounced with his star-power and unbelievable craft. And yet, these people remain employed for decades, becoming stalwarts of the Canadian stage and screen. It can become a head scratcher.

Which isn't to say Canada hasn't produced phenomenal actors and comics. They just leave. Christopher Plummer, Ryan Reynolds, Ryan Gosling, Rachel McAdams (who actually was on S&A), Martin Short, Phil Hartman, Catherine O'Hara, Jim Carrey, John Candy, Norm Macdonald, Michael J. Fox, Will Arnett, Mike Myers, Matthew Perry, Victor Garber, and the list goes on and on and on...

The ones that stick around solely for Canadian TV/film/stage tend to be bland and non-threatening as talents.

[quote]Considering the article at [R78], I suspect Chad Kimball will win that lawsuit, although he’s such a pompous douchebag.

He has next to no chance to win, r91. He wasn't fired. He wasn't asked to return. Two hugely different things

Are you guys referring to those bland Canadian actors no one's ever heard of that get cast in Lifetime/Hallmark movies that now are shot in Canada?

Remember when Lifetime/Hallmark had quality, well-known actors and were filmed stateside?

"I worked up at the Stratford Festival one season (though I'm American) and found it mostly a center of utter mediocrity."

And then you left and the quality of acting shot up 150%

Is Ari’el Stachel gay?

^^^ I don’t know, but he’s definitely conflicted.

R91 What makes you think that? He said he intended to violate the law. So, not only do you have the extremely bad PR he'd bring to the show (and the Apple TV recording), but you also have the safety factor for the rest of the cast and crew. The religious spin is just bullshit.

At least he's guaranteeing he'll never work on Broadway again.

Why is Ariel whatshisname posing full frontally nude in that photo? Was it for a nudie magazine?

That's not a snapshot in the shower...that's a professionally shot photo.

And, that's a helluva dick.

R102 It wasn't Ariel Satchel (or whatever his name) is but his replacement.

[quote]Are you guys referring to those bland Canadian actors no one's ever heard of that get cast in Lifetime/Hallmark movies that now are shot in Canada?

Hey!

Hey, don't lump me in there! I KILLED on Maisel!

I love Luke Kirby.

[quote] Are you guys referring to those bland Canadian actors no one's ever heard of that get cast in Lifetime/Hallmark movies that now are shot in Canada?

no.

[quote] Remember when Lifetime/Hallmark had quality, well-known actors and were filmed stateside?

no.

Kirby, after Maisel and Deuce, is firmly in the group that has moved out of Canada.

R107 THE LOVE LETTER with Jennifer Jason Leigh and Campbell Scott is an example of the quality films that Hallmark used to make in the '90s.

Well, Chad Kimball has taken some of the heat off of Ari'el Stachel for now....

How about a production of Art with Ari'el, Chad, and Alec?

And still nothing in the Times about Ari. It's theater news with major players involved, it seems fishy that they're not covering it.

R112 all the New Woke Times care about is publishing far-left propaganda (i.e., anti-male, anti-white, anti-America, anti-masculine (in boys) and anti-feminine (in girls).

Lol, here’s the root of the problem.

COMING SOON- Chad Kimball and Laura Osnes in Love Letters.

I honestly pray neither one of them works in the theatre again. Chad is a douchebag who's still in the closet, except when he's high, and Laura is a prima donna who got lucky on a reality show. Maybe the Hallmark Channel will employ them.

They're both white; they were never going to work again anyway

Canada gave us FOLLIES, dammit!

And Sweeney.

Cariou and Garber.

Garber wasn't integral casting in Sweeney, r118.

Always love that picture r117.

What an amazing production that was.

Laura Osnes is already making Hallmark movies. She’s the new Lori Laughlin.

By what standard, r119? Antony Hope is critical to the plot.

But Garber being cast as Antony was not, r122.

Garber's singing in "Sweeney" was stylistically wrong. He sounded like he was still, laboriously, singing "Godspell".

Nonetheless, two of the leading roles in SWEENEY TODD were played by Canadians, and that was the point of the post. Even if Cariou had been the only Canadian in the cast, that's certainly a significant fact. And, ummm, needless to say, Cariou's performance was anything but "bland." The statement that Canadian actors are "bland" in general is beyond stupid, but I guess that idiotic comment was brought on by the fact that most of the famous Canadian actors are white :-(

A tip of the hat to r125.

Garber's singing was the least of the reasons he was cast. Believe me.

Victor was very cute indeed, even better looking as he got older.

It's intriguing that Garber went to Steve's townhouse to 'learn the role'. Wonder how much time he spent in the basement.

Victor and "The Sugar Shoppe"

I never said Canadian actors were bland. I said that Canadian actors who never left Canada were bland. Or something to that effect.

i've heard rumors that Garber is hung

In related news, why are there so many nudes and mostly-nudes of Ari'el's replacement online?

[quote]Why are there so many nudes and mostly-nudes of Ari'el's replacement online?

I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope you're not complaining.

He isn't shy about showing off. During lockdown he modelled for virtual life drawing classes. And I guess once a photographer finds a model like him willing to pose fully naked, word gets around and he gets plenty of offers for shoots.

[quote]and Laura is a prima donna who got lucky on a reality show. Maybe the Hallmark Channel will employ them.

Laura Osnes has already done several Hallmark movies.

American actors? BWAAAAAAAH. Suited only for Hallmark movies.

[quote]They're both white; they were never going to work again anyway

That is, until the political pendulum swings back and the country shifts to the right by the end of the decade. So enjoy it while it lasts POC and your self-loathing white enablers.

Same goes for R136. You're only benefitting from America's division right now: those who are patriotic and those who are not. The latter are self-loathing Americans who are currently running things in Hollywood/Broadway, but when moderates are in charge again, it will be a different story. The general American public wants to see American actors and are sick of foreign actors.. Hollywood/Broadway are SO out of touch. Then again, the people in charge are anti-capitalists who don't know how show BUSINESS works; all they care is about promoting their far-left propaganda.

Far-left propaganda: anti-male, anti-white, anti-America, anti-femininity (in women), anti-masculinity (in men).

R137 is an out-of-work mediocre American actor who has to wait tables to survive...... not that there's anything wrong with that.

R139 is a nice woke, anti-bullying safe-spacer.

They're gonna drum Alex Baldwin right outta Hollywood. So he'll come crawlin' back to Broadway. Well, Broadway doesn't go for booze and dope and gunning down the crew.

Alec not Alex. I fuck up everything, just like him.

R140 is still an unemployed actor, bitter abut his job being taken by much more talented British actors. Keep cleaning those tables.

Phantom re-opened tonight with a red carpet and most of the local stations here treated it as a big red carpet event, showing it live on the 5 and 6 o'clock newscasts and rebroadcasting clips now at 11pm.

Gov. Hochul showed up tonight at Six and Chicago and addressed the audiences before the show. Surprised she wasn't at Phantom. Lloyd Webber was though.

Hope it's a hit!

I wish the powers that be would start casting Phantom like they did when it opened -- even ALW has stated that the hot, younger Phantom casting doesn't work and takes the air out of that love triangle. It's one of the reasons why he didn't care for the 2004 film (the fact that Butler couldn't really sing couldn't have helped either!)

He should be a ghostly, older, fatherly figure. There's a whole scene dependent on this fact in Act II. It's why Crawford was so damn good. And while older replacements like Howard McGillin worked far better. Ben Crawford seems like a nice guy, with a fine voice, but his chops are too lightweight. Ramin Karimloo was also wildly overrated with his macho, pop approach to the role.

Davis Gaines (who was in his early 40s when he began, despite him saying he was only 35...lol) was magnificent as "LA's Phantom" for this reason. He really did seem older, wiser and otherworldly. Shame they can't go back to that casting...the show (for all its faults) really misses out on something without that factor.

Tonight's NBC News with Lester Holt had a segment about the all-new, all-black Broadway, with 7 shows this season. They interviewed a vibrant La Chanz.

All of that is lovely, but how many of the woke shows will close after Christmas this year due to a lack of an audience?

This something else.

Who plays Marilyn's part, r149?

Wow, that Sugar Shoppe cover of Save the Country with Garber is really good! And he looks really hot there. I have never heard of that band. I must hear more.

R148 - Well this is often what the woke brigade don't quite understand. It's a business. Always has been, always will be.

These producers are looking for commercial properties with the widest appeal across ALL demographics. And that means not just catering to white people. Or straight people. Or men. Or women. But finding stories, characters and STARS that people of as many races, creeds and identities as possible are going to be drawn to without much cajoling.

Unfortunately in 2021, you can't do niche programming that caters to one type of group on Broadway. And if it's remotely *intellectually-challenging*, forget it. The economics will not support it. And yes, you can be outraged and write an academic dissertation on why this should change (and god knows, the woke do frequently) But that's where we're at. Theatre rents, union rates and the increasing expectations from the public (in terms of getting spectacle on stage for their money) have driven ticket prices higher and higher. Niche programming isn't sustainable. And if it doesn't have the razzle dazzle, people won't risk $200 on a potentially unsatisfying evening of theatre. Sondheim has yarned on about this for decades now.

It also doesn't change the fact that the majority of people who flock to shows year after year, see Broadway primarily as an entertainment. Escapism. Yes, a good many broadly commercial properties CAN be intellectually challenging, but that's usually secondary to the STARS, or source material its based on -- which are the primary things that draw in the widest group of people. You can make an academic case that this is somehow racist or exclusionary to 'other voices', but more times than not, it's really just business. And catering to the masses. Which include LGBT and BIPOC people by the way.

Broadway Will Dim Its Lights in Memory of Tony Winner Terrence McNally:

Listen to 'Louder Than Words' From Tick, Tick…BOOM! Movie Soundtrack:

[quote]Ramin Karimloo was also wildly overrated with his macho, pop approach to the role.

Yeah, so overrated that ALW chose him to play the Phantom in both LOVE NEVER DIES and the 25th Anniversary production of PHANTOM at Royal Albert Hall. But what does he know?

R147 couldn't agree more. I was there tonight. The production looked fabulous, but the sound was atrocious and there are script and blocking changes 35 years later for no reason at all. Ben Crawford and most of the principal cast stunk and the show fell flat most of the night, with extremely slow tempos and non existent acting. Broadway desperately needs a top quality unique talent for the Phantom, Hugh Panaro was the last really excellent choice.

R156 - that's unfortunate to hear. I actually feel like the 'new' sound system they installed a decade ago was a huge downgrade from what was there previously. The Phantom has little to NO reverb on his vocals anymore. They're super dry which kills the ethereal, ghostly quality that all prior Phantoms had. It also feels like the it's weirdly under-amplified. Which seems counterintuitive as they installed that new system in 2008/2009 to seemingly get 'more' sound out of the orchestra and cast.

Last time I saw the show in 2018, it felt very 'flat' and less encompassing than the older sound system. A real shame. And you're right, the last decent Broadway Phantoms were definitely Panaro and McGillin (with the latter being my favorite).

R156, you are aware that this is a new production and will not have the same blocking as any previous one?

Gaines was in his 40s, he claimed to be 35, and most of his body parts were only 3 or 4.

[quote] It also feels like the it's weirdly under-amplified.

Wait,I thought we LIKE under-amplified.

Most of the new black plays (Pass Over, Chicken & Biscuits, Thoughts of a Colored Man, etc) were always intended as limited runs and performed in theaters that are already scheduled for more commercial shows this winter and spring. The theater landlords gave the producers severely reduced rents to get their shows produced and fill the theaters and help Broadway get going.

So what's the harm? Those theaters would have otherwise just been empty.

(the fact that Butler couldn't really sing couldn't have helped either!) - re: The PHANTOM film

And Michael Crawford Could Sing ???? Give me a break.

They still are empty r161.

Martha Henry is magnificent in this LONG DAY'S JOURNEY -- the whole thing, in fact, is superb.

Stop trying to make Martha Henry happen, even after she’s croaked.

I wanna see Zeppelin-Das Musical!

Davis has had so much damned work on his face I doubt he's able to take a cock in that mouth anymore, much less sing.

r132, he posts plenty of ass shots on his Instagram, so part of the reason there are so many pics out there is because he's putting them out there. It shouldn't really be a mystery why a physically fit gay man (who clearly works hard on his body) with a big dick would pose for artistic nudes. He's openly gay (I used to see him on Scruff, though I don't think I have for a while; based on his Instagram he has a boyfriend now.) and doing mostly theater and what looks like a gay TV show, so he's probably not concerned about his image or anyone holding the pix against him. He has a lot to show off and has decided to do so.

"Stop trying to make Martha Henry happen, even after she’s croaked."

She's no Beanie Feldstein, the new Toast of Broadway.

Someone on TikTok is saying touring Cats has an inflatable set, what the hell is that about? Is Grizabella trying to get to the Heavyside layer in a bouncy castle???

Davis Gaines was very handsome and would probably have aged into a hot daddy. Now he looks like he’s wearing a mask.

No, r170, on an inner tube.

Davis Gaines did a shitload of coke early in his career, which destroyed his nose and most of his face. Whatever's left is aging while the rest is nipped and tucked. And when he was doing blow, he was sucking every dick in sight.

"Is Grizabella trying to get to the Heavyside layer in a bouncy castle???"

Why not. Other animals have tried it.

How is Howard McGillin doing? He should work more.

R175-You mean "who", don't you?

R158 No it isn't. The West End got a new production, Broadway still has the old one.

There have been significant changes in the staging of the Broadway production.

^ Creative changes or money saving changes?

Slightly odd choice to post a video on your social media showing that some of your music is recorded. Might be a silly question, why is the conductor conducting during this part? Keep up the show for the audience, easier to keep timing when the actual orchestra starts playing, etc?

R178 Significant? Such as?

I never miss a Hindenburg musical.

I can't wait to see that Zeppelin musical! I've heard that Beanie has already been cast as the Graf Zeppelin and the producers are in secret negotiations with Chrissy Metz to make her Broadway debut as her larger sister, the Hindenburg. Chrissy's a singer, you know.

The Hindenburg musical has that musicals star who played Joe in the German production of Sunset Blvd. I once saw a photo of him attending a premiere with his husband and both were wearing S&M leather wear. Oh, those Germans.

This number is from some TV show. It’s Titanic if written by a Teutonic Frank Wildhorn.

Who played the Anne Bancroft role, r183?

What the hell marketing is this for Comapny of a man in a pilot outfit getting underdressed? Give me vodka stinger or wedding jitters, that I know, but this is a complete anomaly???

I'll just leave this here.

I remember reading somewhere that Davis Gaines was independently wealthy? Maybe from family money? He was on Alec Baldwin's podcast a year or two ago and mentioned he had no agent/manager (or any prospects really). Seemed a bit sad. Shame as he had a magnificent voice and leading man looks.

R185 Seriously? You can't work it out? Barcelona.

R180 - The Overture is primarily pre-recorded playback up until the moment the chandelier anchors in the ceiling and the set-pieces/drops begin to rise. Then the live orchestra begins playing overtop the track. It's actually a very effective 'switch' musically.

The conductor is listening to a click track in his cans, providing tempo to the orchestra around him (who aren't on headphones). Most of those players likely don't need any cueing (as they've been playing the show for decades in some instances) but the conductor's there to lay down tempo and mark those pre-recorded measures. Plus, there's invariably 'subs' in the pit who haven't played the show ad nauseam who benefit from this cueing.

R189 Thank you

R188 Not as hot as the English guy.

Hello, R177 and R178.

The West End production is still fairly new. It is not 35 years old.

For R156 to expect the same blocking as 35 years ago in a completely different production, was bizarre.

R192 Again, the Broadway production - which is what R156 is talking about - is not a "completely different production". It is the original production. There may have been some changes, but it is not a new production.

R193 is correct. The scenic elements, size of orchestra (and orchestrations) remain the same as they did in 1988. There have been some bizarre script changes (added, clumsier dialogue in the auctioneer scene) and no 'Phantom/Christine' doubles at the top of the title song (that cross and enter down a trap). It may seem small, but their removal kills the magical reveal of them up on the travelator (catwalk) seconds later.

The London production is a shit show at the moment. A crass 14 piece 'band', no Phantom lowering in Maria Bjornson's iconic Angel in the proscenium. Hal Prince and Ruth Mitchell kept those productions lean and mean. It's erotic, gothic, high melodrama. The design, staging and music need all actors on stage to buy into this style, or the thing starts to feel and look absolutely ridiculous. The current Broadway cast is terrible and regardless of how many rehearsals they did leading up to this re-opening, the tone and style which Prince slaved over, are largely diluted if not missing entirely.

Apparently each seat had a red rose, a mask and some other free stuff last night - except a lot of people didn't get theirs because those who showed up first were taking them from the other seats.

And there was a block party afterwards, at which ALW DJed. Mackintosh certainly knows how to put on a special event. Mind you, that's all he does now really, with the anniversaries of Phantom and Les Mis.

Further, you can actually listen to the boot of the re-opening night audio on YouTube. Ben Crawford's Phantom has zero intrigue, zero mystery. It's proficient at best, blunt force trauma at worst. I'm sure he's a talented guy, but totally miscast here. And once again: zero reverb on those vocals. Come on sound guy, do your job and give us some that sweet Michael Crawford echo! He IS supposed to be an Opera Ghost. Good Christ.

R194/R196 nails it. Thank you. The changes were not money saving, they were changes for the sake of changes (which is almost worse)- diluting and removing Hal Prince's direction that kept this show in top shape for three decades, while singing his praises in public. Cameron and Andrew even dedicated the performance to Prince, Maria Björnson and Gillian Lynne while bastardizing their work. Horrible.

I thought R156 was talking about Caroline or Change.

I do not know why.

But I did.

That is why I thought it weird to expect the same blocking as a long time ago.

Flay me in the court of DL snark. I deserve it.

It reads as CHIPPENDALE'S the Musical, r188.

R137 is fat Matt the loon.

Zeppelin musical fans should watch the last third of so of Cecil B. DeMille's "Madam Satan" which has partygoers in a pre-code party in a zeppelin in very weird musical numbers ending with most parachuting out to safety. The first 2/3rd of the movie is boring (just saving you kids time), but the last part is a hoot with music (and DL fave Lillian Roth)!

MS

More...

[quote]What the hell marketing is this for Company of a man in a pilot outfit getting underdressed?

That's an image of Claybourne Elder, a minimally talented performer who long ago had the sense to realize that the main thing he has to offer in trying to have a theater career is his body.

[quote]The Overture is primarily pre-recorded playback up until the moment the chandelier anchors in the ceiling and the set-pieces/drops begin to rise. Then the live orchestra begins playing overtop the track. It's actually a very effective 'switch' musically.

I understand why most if not all of the vocal duet of the "Phantom of the Opera" is pre-recorded, even though I still think that's pretty cheesy. But what is the reason or need for having any of the overture pre-recorded?

Davis Gaines *is* Hannibal Lecter

Lillian Roth is a DL fave?

Yes, r206.

Was that Lillian Roth in the show girl costume with all the pheasant plumes? That first Madame Satan clip was a little hard to watch. I kept waiting for the musical number to get going but it never did....felt like it was all an introduction to something more. Who played the lead masked lady?

The second clip with the dancing pussy cats was more fun. Thanks for posting the clips, r201.

The exotically named Kay Johnson, r208.

Miss Roth...

[quote]Apparently each seat had a red rose, a mask and some other free stuff last night - except a lot of people didn't get theirs because those who showed up first were taking them from the other seats.

This happened to me at the performance I saw of "The Inheritance" -- there was a souvenir from the show left in each seat but someone took mine. I asked one of the ushers on my way out after the show if they had any extras but she said sorry, no, that was it.

Of course it's not that it's anything of value, it's just that people are such assholes for doing that. There's one in their seat but they feel entitled to take other people's, too.

I loved DANH. but found IS THIS A ROOM very disappointing.

Interesting to see John Dossett and Rita Gardner...

Recent interview with Davis. Quite interesting!

Is he heir to the burger fortune?

Gee, Dossett never looked so good.

Great to see Chita again in those numbers with those incredibly HOT chorus boys!

incredibly? They’re ok

Vanessa...just doesn't have the Chita *snap*.

Yes, R215. Davis Gaines supposedly has family money from the dog food Gaines-Burgers which was very popular a long time ago.

God, Gaines-burgers. I hadn’t thought about those for years. The crap we used to feed our dogs!

Davis Gaines was no Boyd Gaines.

[quote] God, Gaines-burgers. I hadn’t thought about those for years. The crap we used to feed our dogs!

Now they've been rebranded as Impossible Burgers, and business is booming.

I guess I thought Martha Henry was married to William Hutt

William Hutt was gay, Gay, GAY!

And extremely bland, as Canadian actors tend to be.

He's not dead r225. Is he not gay anymore?

No r224, he was married to Mary Beth Hutt.

R227 - William Hutt has been very much dead for almost 15 years. But yes, he WAS gay, gay, gay as R225 pointed out.

[quote]Ramin Karimloo was also wildly overrated with his macho, pop approach to the role.

It worked beautifully at the Royal Albert with Sierra though. They had great chemistry and that production was amazing.

I thought you meant William Hurt

Hutt was gay, Hurt is a drunk. Understand now?

no need to be a bitch now.

One can be both, r232...

Davis Gaines has a huge cock and he is a world-class cocksucker. No anal.

Did he do many other roles besides Phantom?

If I was in bed with Davis Gaines, I'd want him to suck my cock, too, so I wouldn't have to look at that hideous plastic surgery

He did a lot of summer stock etc when he was living in NY. Lots of concert work. He was in the chorus of that Camelot revival with - was it Richard Burton or Harris? Can’t remember. He replaced as Raoul pretty quickly in the Broadway Phantom, and just as quickly moved up to the Phantom himself. Michael Crawford opened the LA Phantom, then Robert Guillaume went in, then Davis took over, stayed with it for the 2 1/2 more years it stayed in LA, then opened it when it moved to SF, and stayed for six months.

Hard to find any young pictures of Davis.

Ramin Karimloo is Canadian, of course. Good voice but good god, what a bland, colorless actor. He’ll disappear into the woodwork in the painfully underwritten role of Nicky Arnstein. I hope he at least has a scene in boxer shorts and a tank top.

Gaines was in Forbidden Broadway circa 1984 with the late, great Patrick Quinn. Davis was smoking hot. Surely there must be photos from that edition.

Ha reading about Martha Henry TIL that Bill Hutt’s nickname among other actors was Big Daddy 👀

r155 most here think ALW is a talentless plagiarizing hack so that is no defense of Ramin.

The Phantom now running on Broadway is different than the production I saw filmed at Royal Albert Hall yes?

Caroline, or Change was never in the Royal Albert Hall

But a lot of holes have been presented there...

r240, Don't fool yourself, of course that other talentless hack Michael Mayer will get Ramin's shirt off (at least onstage) in FUNNY GIRL. Why else would he be cast in such a colorless role?

R243 the Royal Albert Hall concert of Phantom was an adaption of the original staging. Broadway is the last production in the world with (most) of the original staging, so yes, it's different. There is no legal filmed version of the original staging except in the Lincoln Center library, though a quick youtube search will get you any number of bootlegs.

Was the chandelier drop in London any better than the NY one? In NY, it makes like a sharp angle to the stage away from the audience a few feet before reaching its low point, not too scary.

FDNY is in charge of safety at Broadway theaters and they've never allowed the chandelier at the Majestic to drop at full speed as intended. There was an article in the Times about it years ago. Techs at the theater were quoted as saying that on a handful of special occasions they let it drop full speed in violation of the rules.

The tab version in Vegas opened in a newly built theater designed with the effect in mind and all sorts of special safety measures were built in and it came crashing down.

^ They spent a lot of money customizing that Vegas theater to that 90 minute, one act version of Phantom, assuming it would run for years. It didn't.

In case anyone here has a prurient interest in seeing the rest of Visitor cast member Ahmad Maksoud's shower photo session...

You're welcome.

He doesn't look remotely pruney.

Fairycakes is every bit as dreadful as Jesse Green's review points out. I have no idea how this piece of crap attracted such a great cast or even made it into a theater.

Doug Beane is a horrendously untalented writer and has been since his first awful play, Advice from a Caterpillar.

If Doug Beane wrote and directed Fairycakes, I'm guessing it's mostly his money that produced it.

I remember when he first came onto the theatre scene with As Bees in Honey Drowns, Beane had a ton of dough from writing films like To Wong Foo. So I'm wondering if he makes a good living sprucing up film comedies, getting no screen credit but lots of money? Isn't that essentially what Paul Rudnick has done for years?

And speaking of untalented, Rob Ashford has found his post-[italic]Sunset[/italic] movie project doing a Bollywood musical for which he is as qualified as he was doing Tennessee Williams.

[quote] the new musical will feature choreography by Rob Ashford (“Thoroughly Modern Millie”), a book and lyrics by Nell Benjamin (“Mean Girls”) and music composed by Indian songwriters Vishal Dadlani and Shekhar Ravjiani. The creative team will include set design by Derek McLane (“Moulin Rouge!”) and music supervision by Bill Sherman.

"San Francisco's Old Globe Theatre"? No.

“All I shall do again

Stand in a queue again;

Here’s to not making news.”

Since when is Douglas Carter Beane a director? The poor slob couldn't get Christopher Ashley?

I guess Christopher Ashley has his limits, low as they may be.

Note that Rob Ashford is only choreographing the Bollywood musical , not directing it. I don't think Broadway producers will hire him to direct anything ever again.

If there's a God.

Breaking news!

DANA H and IS THIS A ROOM will close 2 months earlier than originally scheduled, as per Playbill.com.

Both were scheduled to run through mid January but will close in mid November. It just goes to show that rave reviews will not get butts into seats when those butts have no interest in the subject matter. Even the new black plays are doing better business, at least for now.

I saw both shows last week. I found DANA fascinating but ROOM very wanting (except for the black actor's sensational butt (speaking of butts) in his well-fit khakis. Both shows really should have stayed off-Broadway in small venues.

[quote] Both shows really should have stayed off-Broadway in small venues.

Is anything doing well off Broadway?

Diana! Will be setting Broadway on fire soon!

For the insurance money, r264?

Has Dana H even run a week?

[quote]Note that Rob Ashford is only choreographing the Bollywood musical , not directing it. I don't think Broadway producers will hire him to direct anything ever again.

Here's hoping!

R250, aka Dream Skipper, I am sorry for your unfortunate experience with Mr. Ashford :-(

Marry me, r265.

Rob Ashford directed the worst production of Carousel I've ever seen...even worse than the last Broadway mess. For some unknown reason Ashford set it during the Depression, so Carrie's line about how Billy could easily find a job if he really wanted one made no sense at all.

[quote] made no sense at all

That's Ashford's motto

When does Wicked start filming in Georgia? We should be getting casting announcements any day now.

I'm hearing rumors that they actually may go with Broadway talent instead of vapid West Coast names for WICKED. We'll see...

^^How about boycott calls because of Georgia’s restrictive voting laws?

R271 Idina for Madame Morrible!

The role used to be played by someone who can act

Why aren’t they holding a reality TV show to cast the two leads in Wicked, it seems like the perfect opportunity, I’m not even interested in reality TV and I would watch that, especially if they could sabotage each other and there was kind of a no holes barred mentality.

[quote] I would watch that, especially if they could sabotage each other and there was kind of a no holes barred mentality.

I'm torn between "Oh, dear!" and "pics, please!".

[quote] I'm torn

you would be, with a no holes barred mentality

No, it's "No wholes Bard!"

are you Douglas Carter Beane r279?

Whoever financed "Fairycakes," they are going to lose their shirts. It seems clear that a LOT of money was spent on the production in terms of the costumes, the names in the cast, and the fact that the cast size is tremendous for an Off-Broadway show. A friend of mine made the smart comment that the producers MUST have had it in mind that this thing would move to Broadway, or they never would have okayed such a huge budget.

No money was spent on the names in the cast, trust me. It's Off Broadway scale.

Who said Beane could direct? Who said Rocca could act? Who said "Fairycakes" would be a good title for anything? Who did they think would come to this? What the fucking is going on?

Trust me, it's all Beane's money.

And the cast was foolish (and desperate) enough to sign on for Equity off-Broadway minimums.

and what the fuck is this. a developmental production starring himself and tickets are $100+

Currently off-Broadway there's a show A Commercial Jingle for Regina Comet, written by and starring an ex-Newsie (Ben Fankhauser) and an ex-Spring Awakening cast member (Alex Wyse), who've both said they set out to write a show with a ridiculous title. Judging by the snippets of music that's been released so far, they obviously put all their effort into the title and little in the actual writing.

But thanks to their previous show credits, they're guaranteed a theatre kid crowd.

r286 who finances something like that?? 2 unknowns write their own play and it's put up Off-Broadway?

R287 I'm guessing they come from money. Alex Wyse was one of the producers for What the Constitution Means to Me, and somehow I doubt his salary from The Bold and the Beautiful was that high. He's also the writing partner of DL fav Wes Tay Tay for that web series Indoor Boys, and that got him signed to ICM, so he does have some contacts.

Ah, Cody Lassen is the lead producer of it, and he was also a producer on the Spring Awakening revival. There have been rumours he and Alex were fucking during SA, and he's also part of the producing group, with Wyse and Craig Balsam, who were involved with What the Constitution, So guess that explains that.

NYT review of the show if anyone cares

[quote]“A Commercial Jingle for Regina Comet,” an Off Broadway production, is the first new in-person musical to open since Covid-19 shut down theaters last year, and it feels like the first pancake to come out of the pan: It’s a little undercooked, a little misshapen, but we’ll eat it anyway because hey, it’s still a pancake.

[quote]Trust me, it's all Beane's money. And the cast was foolish (and desperate) enough to sign on for Equity off-Broadway minimums.

Thanks, I should have realized that the names in the cast were probably not getting anything like star salaries. Presumably, they did the show because Beane is considered something of a player even though so much of his stuff has been dreck. Also presumably because the cast had literally nothing else to do, and there was always the chance that this show might transfer. That is, there would have been that chance if the show wasn't a freaking mess.

Anyway, it still looks like a very expensive production for Off-Broadway, if only in terms of the size of the cast.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1995, "Victor/Victoria" starring Julie Andrews opened at the Marquis Theatre.

R276 Because "From Justin to Kelly" from the first American Idol bombs thuddeningly at the box-office is a reason to avoid casting even bigger budget films from tv competitions.

I imagine a lot of very good actors are happy to do just about anything right now, just to get weeks toward their health insurance.

Good point, R293.

Very few actors are turning down anything right now.

Dana H and This is a Room were good at The Vineyard Theatre downtown. But I can't imagine seeing either one of them from the balcony of the Lyceum.

Some people have suggested that Broadway theaters were offered at a cut rate to shows like DANA H, IS THIS A ROOM and other shows that would normally never be seen on Broadway just to fill those theaters, which would have had no bookings otherwise due to the pandemic dragging on. Doing this at least allowed those shows to be eligible for Tony nominations, even if they're not selling tickets and have to curtail their runs. Makes perfect sense to me.

I guess those two closing shows will now be eligible for Tonys because they will run long enough to invite the nominators and voters, and I guess they may even get some nominations, especially for their 2 female leads. There won't be a whole lot of competition in the play categories particularly in the Female Lead category, even by spring, right?

But with the plays long closed, what's the point? Though Deirdre McConnell is long due for all the acclaim she gets. Nevertheless, I'm already betting Mary-Louise Parker will win another (her 3rd) Tony for How I learned to Drive. Sorry, Didi.

Tony nominations are still Tony nominations, R298. And as you mentioned, it's certainly not out of the question that either of those women might win, depending on how the rest of the season pans out. I didn't think Mary Louise Parker deserved a Tony this year, even though it was one of her better recent performances, and I don't think she'll get another one next year.

"FDNY is in charge of safety at Broadway theaters and they've never allowed the chandelier at the Majestic to drop at full speed as intended."

It dropped with the speed of a 90 year-old grandmother with severe arthritis negotiating a flight of stairs. Much ado about absolutely nothing.

[quote] If Doug Beane wrote and directed Fairycakes, I'm guessing it's mostly his money that produced it. I remember when he first came onto the theatre scene with As Bees in Honey Drowns, Beane had a ton of dough from writing films like To Wong Foo. So I'm wondering if he makes a good living sprucing up film comedies, getting no screen credit but lots of money? Isn't that essentially what Paul Rudnick has done for years?

You remember incorrectly, since Beane has been around the theater as a playwright since 1991.

Didn't Beane, Rudnick and (Nicky) Silver all emerge around the same time? Silver is one I haven't heard much about in a while.

R301, what did Doug Beane write for the theatre that would have made him any considerable amount of money before As Bees in Honey Drown?

Well, don't wake him up, r302.

Good question, R302. Nicky Silver, though far from flawless, is certainly the most interesting/ambitious/substantial of the 3. (Didn't Linda Lavin do another play of his after THE LYONS, to rather less acclaim?)

Douglas Carter Beane is, to me, a near-fraud. A little of him goes a very long way.

Paul Rudnick is hard to beat for dazzling 1-liners, and he's had some fun outings as a social satirist, but nothing he's written shows any talent whatever for characterization/character development, much less a layered dramatic structure.

Rudnick plays produced in NY since the early 1980s, I'm thinking of Poor Little Lambs, which got a lot of attention because of its hot young cast, but ultimately flopped. I think his only hit playin NY was Jeffrey,10 years later, but that was off-Broadway. He's never had a hit play on Broadway, and I think there was only one, anyway, I Hate Hamlet.

Last I heard of Nicky Silver he had moved to London but I don't think he's had much, if any success there. Maybe he's moved back by now. THe Vineyard has always been faithful to him but they haven't produced anything of his in years.

Sorry, that should have read:

Rudnick has had plays produced in NY since early 1980s....

Carry on!

Not quite, R306. I just checked the archives, and here are the Silver plays produced at the Vineyard. I suppose you're literally correct -- 5 years are indeed "years" -- but 5 years ago doesn't seem that long ago to me, especially if you factor in COVID.

1 This Day Forward Vineyard Theatre 11/20/2016 Playwright 2 Too Much Sun Vineyard Theatre 05/20/2014 Playwright 3 The Lyons Vineyard Theatre 10/11/2011 Playwright 4 Beautiful Child Vineyard Theatre 02/24/2004 Playwright 5 The Altruists Vineyard Theatre 03/06/2000 Playwright 6 The Eros Trilogy Vineyard Theatre 01/21/1999 Playwright 7 The Maiden's Prayer Vineyard Theatre 02/07/1998 Playwright 8 Raised in Captivity Vineyard Theatre 02/09/1995 Playwright 9 Pterodactyls Vineyard Theatre 10/07/1993 Playwright

He's certainly no Jean Kerr, r305.

Even Paul Rudnick's one-liners aren't so funny any more.

nobody’s are.

[quote] [R301], what did Doug Beane write for the theatre that would have made him any considerable amount of money before As Bees in Honey Drown?

Who said anything about him making money? You said he first landed on the theater scene with As Bees in Honey Drown and I said that, no, he had been having plays produced in NYC since 1991.

[quote]Rob Ashford directed the worst production of Carousel I've ever seen...even worse than the last Broadway mess. For some unknown reason Ashford set it during the Depression, so Carrie's line about how Billy could easily find a job if he really wanted one made no sense at all.

That was the Chicago Lyric Opera production, which also played an engagement at Houston Grand Opera. Ashford chose an Italian artist as his scenic designer. He did his set renderings as a series of paintings. Unfortunately, the gentleman is color blind. As he finished each painting he would have to have friends look at it to tell him whether the colors worked together.

It felt like Ashford was directing on Broadway every damn season and then it seems it suddenly stopped cold

[quote] Didn't Beane, Rudnick and (Nicky) Silver all emerge around the same time?

And all we’re trying to be the next Craig Lucas.

Craig Lucas. Wow. Now THAT’S a name one doesn’t really hear anymore. What is the old lush up to?

r312, what were the names of a few of these plays of Doug Beane's you're going about that were produced in NY before Bees...? And where were they produced? Sorry, but I never heard of him until he had the success of that one.

Beane wrote two very good plays, AS BEES IN HONEY DROWN and THE LITTLE DOG LAUGHED, and all of his other theater work that I'm aware of has pretty much been dreck. Silver wrote one or two good, funny plays at most and then seemed to lose his way. His rewrite of THE BOYS FROM SYRACUSE was from hunger. Rudnick's strengths and weaknesses are exactly as others here have described them.

[His rewrite of THE BOYS FROM SYRACUSE was from hunger.]

Maybe the worst revisal of a musical ever. And baffling, since Encores had just done the original to acclaim.

Any day now, Beane's long-in-development musical "The Big Time" is going to open on Broadway and be a smash.

Has Beane ever written a screenplay that was produced?

To r321, thanks for everything!

[quote] Maybe the worst revisal of a musical ever. And baffling, since Encores had just done the original to acclaim.

Agreed. It also was one of the worst looking Broadway shows I've ever seen. Cheap, ugly and barren. Community theatre level.

R317, The one that brought Beane to my attention was Advice From a Caterpillar at the Lortel.

Was The Country Club before or after Bees?

Silver began to write better plays like The Altruists and The Lyons and even Beautiful Child. But as his plays got better and better they became less and less popular.

[quote] [R312], what were the names of a few of these plays of Doug Beane's you're going about that were produced in NY before Bees...? And where were they produced? Sorry, but I never heard of him until he had the success of that one.

Then use that thing bringing you Datalounge and look him up, you smarmy cunt. All will be revealed.

I was working at Long Wharf in New Haven when Beane's The Country Club debuted there around 1999 before it arrived in NY. Our original cast (IIRC directed by theater hack Christopher Ashley) included Amy Sedaris, Amanda Peet, Alan Tudyck and Kurt Deutsch. Amanda and Kurt had a hot nude scene and Amy and Alan were fucking offstage. I don't think any of them did the play in NY where it was produced by that group (the Drama Dept.?) that included Beane and Cynthia Nixon and quickly disappeared.

Another funny, though uneven Nicky Silver play I remember was The Maiden's Prayer at the Vineyard starring the sublime Patti Clarkson. And Pterodactyls, Fat Men in Skirts, Raised in Captivity, The Food Chain and Beautiful Child and finally Too Much Sun, the last one, but all I believe produced at The Vineyard. They've certainly given him lots of chances to succeed.

Interesting take, R325. I liked the parts of THE LYONS that involved Linda Lavin's character, and she was great in that show, but I really disliked the rest of the play. It seemed to me as if Silver had two unfinished plays, or maybe two one-acts, and tries to smush them together to make a full-length play, but it really didn't work.

As for Bean, I don't think anyone claimed that AS BEES IN HONEY DROWN was his first play produced in New York, but it's fair to say that was the show that put him on the map.

[quote] I remember when he first came onto the theatre scene with As Bees in Honey Drowns,

Yeah, they did, R328

I wish Mr. Bean was having a show coming up too, then we would be having a Beane, Beanie, Mr. Bean celebration on Broadway!

Was it Bees that Peri Gilpin was supposed to go into, but it closed?

That chandelier in Phantom dropped at the speed of a snail the first time I saw Phantom, over 25 years ago. The one in London sort of drifted down the at the same speed 10 years ago. I've always hated the musical, especially the production in London, which was paced like goose shit in February. I liked Paint Never Dries more than I liked the original. Except for Superstar, Lloyd Webber sucks balls.

I remember seeing Phantom in 1989 and thinking when the chandelier came down it was laughable how slowly it moved.

[quote]I remember seeing Phantom in 1989 and thinking when the chandelier came down it was laughable how slowly it moved.

I had the same reaction, and so has everyone else I know who has seen the show in New York. (I can't speak for other productions.) All the more amazing that the chandelier drop became the show's big drawing card when it's such a huge disappointment.

R327 There's a least one casting director who in casting notices specifically warns not to do a monologue by Nicky Silver!

I always get a kick out of Nicky Silver's plays; they aren't for everyone - but neither are they shoved down the public's throats like some playwrights.

Beane and Rudnick are hit or miss, but when they are funny, they are very funny.

I like Christopher Durang's plays, well, except for "Sex and Longing", which was really bad.

So what’s the scoop on Hazel? Anyone?

I know there's a celebration of "I hate Beane" (and Beanie too!) but I saw Fairycakes on Saturday, and it was uneven, but I laughed a lot. A lot.

Today's episodes, r338, were:

Hazel braves more than the snow when she enters a dog-sled race. George: Don DeFore. Dorothy: Whitney Blake. Harold: Bobby Buntrock. Rosie: Maudie Prickett. Pat: Sally Mansfield.

*

and

*

Hazel takes a course in personality improvement. Don DeFore, Whitney Blake, Bobby Buntrock.

[quote]I saw Fairycakes on Saturday, and it was uneven, but I laughed a lot.

At the performance I saw, the laughs were relatively few and far between. And it seemed like most of the laughs that were there happened because of the cast's delivery of the lines and their comic energy and body language, not because the script itself was clever or funny.

I believe Nicky Silver has permanently relocated to London and is teaching there.

[quote] I like Christopher Durang's plays, well, except for "Sex and Longing", which was really bad.

OMG, I'd blocked that out of my mind. What a mess. Like some sophomoric skit you'd see at Theater for the New City...but on Broadway.

Meryl should come back to Broadway with...

Imagine what Jackie Hoffman will have to say on Twitter when Fairycakes closes.

r341, how was Mo Rocca's "comic energy and body language specifically?

Silver, Durang, Beane, Rudnick- they're old they're white they're ovah they're not allowed to speak ever again

Durang has a Best Play Tony. He's excused.

[quote] Silver, Durang, Beane, Rudnick- they're old they're white they're ovah they're not allowed to speak ever again

Well, then...enjoy a lifetime supply of Chicken and Biscuits!

I only caught up with Durang's Masha and Vanya and Spike, et. al. this past winter when it was offered streaming and could not believe how lame and out of touch it was, not remotely funny and that includes the actors' performances, not just the writing.

Durang's Terrorism play, Blah blah blah at the Public was pretty lousy, too.

How does Mo Rocca get work in ANY medium?

a bunch of awesome ladies did the original SIster Mary Ignatius in NY and LA and SF- Elizabeth Franz, Mary Louise Wilson, Nancy Marchand, Lynn Redgrave, Kathleen Chalfant, Cloris Leachman, Peggy Cass. And a young chad Allen played the boy.

I see berkshire did it a couple of years ago. I wonder if it holds up.

Elizabeth Franz was fantastic in Sister Mary Ignatius -- "Are all our prayers answered? Yes, they are; what most people who ask that question don't realize is that sometimes the answer to our prayers is 'no.'"

[quote]How was Mo Rocca's "comic energy and body language specifically?

I guess you're just being nasty by nature, but first of all, Mo Roccais only one actor in large cast. I was referring more to Julie Halston, Jackie Hoffman, Arnie Burton, Ann Harada, et al. Mo Rocca does have his own comic style, but it's more of the understated or deadpan variety.

Oh hi, Mo

TV's new Annie looks 40

Well, R356, that "contribution" of yours makes it clear that you have no comic style whatsoever :-(

Oh, my stars. R357 does not exaggerate.

Great to have you here, Samantha Stevens!

I am also surprised Harry is doing bald considering that rug-looking thing he's always had

R357 Old, and fat.

It'll be interesting to see what they do with Harry's hair. That's clearly a Photoshop job. Will he shave his head and reveal those transplant scars? Or will it be a rubber bald cap and airbrushing?

We've already had a black Annie. Isn't time an Asian girl got a chance?

TRANS ANNIE!

So we're back at Oliver?

Oliver in a wig and a dress?

I always want to see an Annie sequel where she’d sing it’s a hard knocked-up life.

There better be some boy orphans in that orphanage this time!!!

And by hard-knock life, we mean LITERAL VIOLENCE!

Visiting Boston this week. Nice to know that things are finally looking up in terms of theater. Hadestown is stopping in next month and Bartlett Sher’s production of Fiddler on the Roof will be on at the Colonial in late December. Chazz Palmintieri will be there in April in A Bronx Tale. And A Christmas Story will be produced, too.

Bart Sher’s crappy production of Fiddler is touring? Is Tevye still making his first appearance in a red Patagonia puffy coat?

No, r372, Tevye’s wearing Armani now.

Jesus is Chazz Palmintieri still hustling that shit? And he's had so much lacework you can't see him move his mouth...What was Alan Menken thinking writing that crap?

While it's nice that Boston is getting some theater, I'm saddened that it's so much crap.

I went to college in Boston in the late 60s/early 70s and got to see so many amazing tryouts - Follies, Lolita My Love, Prettybelle, Promises, Promises, How Now Dow Jones, Sugar, Dear World, No No Nanette, the On the Town revival with Bernadette Peters......those were the days.

A discussion's on ATC about this vs Bobby Darin's version.

Bobby Darin was truly a genius to take that song Artificial Flowers and make what he did of it.

Well, there was a poster who (I think) didn't get that the original was tongue in cheek.

[quote]Bartlett Sher’s production of Fiddler on the Roof will be on at the Colonial in late December.

Sorry to hear that. It's a really bad production, so bad that it does a disservice to the show.

That Bobby Darin version must have been a huge unexpected hit for Bock & Harnick.

I'm not musically knowledgeable so I can't imagine someone so cleverly seeing the hip possibilities of that song with an entirely different arrangement and attitude.

Is the Sher Fiddler an Equity tour? I'm betting not.

See Mack the Knife, r380.

It is not, R381

[quote]See Mack the Knife

Exactly. That song from THE THREEPENNY OPERA was a tremendous hit for Darin, so he and his people probably thought, "Let's look for another ballad song from another Broadway show and give it the same pop treatment!"

But was Artificial Flowers a big hit for him? I doubt it.

It was natural for a vocalist to come out with Broadway albums. Jo Stafford, Pat Suzuki, Julie...

[quote]But was Artificial Flowers a big hit for him? I doubt it.

I think it was a hit, if nowhere near as big as "Mack the Knife," which was a HUGE hit.

Artificial Flowers worked well in Tenderloin because it was an adroit parade of the “pathetic ballads” that were so popular at the turn of the century.

As a pop song by Bobby Darin, it’s a complete dud.

Really, Addams Family is the top musical? I don’t recall any songs or plot points, only who the performers were in it. And a six way tie for tenth place in the plays category, that’s just bad computation.

Bobby Darin's version is swingin', and I find it enjoyable, and I like Ron Hussmann's version, too, in the original "Tenderloin" OCR. Patrick Wilson in the Encores was doing well until the end when he dropped the style and wailed some high note like he was in a contemporary show like "Rent" which totally blew what he had been doing up to that point.

"Mack the Knife" was like the #1 song on the charts for 1959. Btw, if you've never seen Darin's Oscar-nominated performance in "Captain Newman, M.D.", he's absolutely fantastic, especially in his climactic scene with psychiatrist Gregory Peck where Darin goes through what has brought on his emotion trauma.

"emotional", that is

[quote] Darin goes through what has brought on his emotional trauma.

Sandra Dee’s mother?

[quote]Sandra Dee’s mother?

Connie Ford?

Could someone please remind me how to include a past reply at the top of my own new message? I know it involves brackets, but that’s all I can remember. Thanks.

You type the number of the post you want to reply to with an r immediately before it with no space. The brackets appear automatically; if you insert a set, you'll get double brackets. rXX, for example. No space, no brackets.

^ Sorry, I'm still half asleep. That's how you link to another post.

To quote from another post, copy and paste the text you want to quote and precede it with the word quote inside brackets with no spaces. To end the quote format you must put two hard returns at the end.

^ To insert two hard returns, you press the Enter key twice.

[quote]put two hard returns at the end

Pics please.

A bit of research shows that Artificial Flowers topped at #20 on the charts. Not a huge hit for a guy just off Mack the Knife.

I love Tenderloin's score but I've never much cared for that number. And yes, I get that it's a deliberate parody of a Victorian parlor ballad.

r395 Thank you!

[quote] Artificial Flowers

Just checking...

[quote] Patrick Wilson in the Encores was doing well until the end when he dropped the style and wailed some high note like he was in a contemporary show like "Rent" which totally blew what he had been doing up to that point.

I disagree completely about his last note. He is using a legit sound throughout the recording, including that ending of "Artificial Flowers." and I don't think there is anything jarring or contemporary about it.

But when is the Yiddish FIddler going to tour?

[quote]Really, Addams Family is the top musical?

Based SOLELY on the familiarity of the characters from the TV series and the movies, NOT on any quality writing in the book or the lousy score by Andrew Lippa. I didn't read the article above, so I don't know if it mentions the fact that the Broadway show got such horrendous reviews that, apparently, the whole show was greatly rewritten for the tour. I've never seen the rewritten version, but I wonder if it's really any better, or if this was just a case of washing garbage.

[quote]Last time I can recall a recent Best supporting actor Tony winner dropped out/was replaced was Christian Hoff from the last Broadway revival of "Pal Joey'. His theatrical career hasn't seemed to recover. Suposedly (on WIki) because of an injury, but wasn't the new Joey a boyfriend of someone?

The new Joey, who had been the understudy, was in fact the boyfriend or partner of the director, Joe Mantello, but rumor has it that Hoff was replaced because Stockard Channing didn't like him, for some reason.

[quote]A bit of research shows that Artificial Flowers topped at #20 on the charts. Not a huge hit for a guy just off Mack the Knife.

#20 is still a hit. Just as I said, "Artificial Flowers" was a hit for Bobby Darin, though not nearly as big a hit as "Mack the Knife," which was a phenomenon.

Jerry Zaks took over The Addams Family very late in the game and there wasn't time to make the changes he wanted to make before the scheduled Broadway opening. So he made them for the tour and that's the licensed version. People have told me it's marginally better than the original.

R408, thanks, but if I understand correctly, those changes included lots of rewriting, just not re-staging. So Zaks couldn't and didn't make them on his own.

The changes were made to Zaks' specifications under his supervision and guidance. Of course he didn't physically do everything himself.

The physical production built for the Chicago tryout didn't allow for much of an overhaul of the show that wouldn't have cost millions. I think they rewrote for Broadway, then again for the tour where they could do more, and then again for the licensing with whatever they'd learned from the tour. The Times did a story about it all at the 10th anniversary

R403 He sang it with a yelly sound in the theatre, not "covered" at all.

[quote] there wasn't time to make the changes he wanted to make before the scheduled Broadway opening.

it was more that they didn't have the money. Zaks came in at the end of Chicago or during the time after Chi before NY. I remember they changed the ghost costumes to all white so we would understand they were ghosts. That's the only major physical change I remember. Structurally, they opened with the TV theme, in Chicago it was a long-delayed moment - that played very well - about halfway through Act I.

The licensed version of ADDAMS FAMILY is very different from the terrible Broadway script. Someone eventually realized that what the audience was most interested in was the "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" aspect of the story, and this script sticks to that. The stupefying Squid fucking song that was in Broadway is gone, and there's many musical rewrites. It's now a solidly entertaining show. Nothing original, but a decently fun, which is why its so good for High Schools and community groups.

Thanks, R414. I thought -- and so did lots of other people -- that the whole concept and the writing of the Broadway version was just terrible. I thought back then that a near-total rewrite would be necessary to make the show even passably entertaining, and I guess that's what happened.

[quote]Zaks came in at the end of Chicago or during the time after Chi before NY. I remember they changed the ghost costumes to all white so we would understand they were ghosts. That's the only major physical change I remember. Structurally, they opened with the TV theme, in Chicago it was a long-delayed moment - that played very well - about halfway through Act I.

Interesting, because on Broadway, the TV theme was the FIRST thing we heard at the top of the overture. I think only about four bars of it, but it seemed that was enough for the audience. Unfortunately, it was all downhill from there.

Yes r415 that would be what I meant when I wrote "they opened with the TV theme,"

It will be interesting to see how Billy Porter can direct, when all he is interested in talking about is himself.

[quote]Yes [R415] that would be what I meant when I wrote "they opened with the TV theme,"

Sorry, I misread what you wrote. I thought you meant that there was some point in the POST-Broadway tour when the show did not open with the TV theme, and that would have been very surprising to me.

Artificial Flowers? DL fave Marie Osmond did it much better.

Excuse me, R479? I sang "Paper Roses" years before that Osmond bitch, and my recording of it charted at No. 5 in 1960.

Shut up, Anita, or you'll get another pie in the face. Or maybe it will be aimed elsewhere.....

So in that reconfigured Addams family, did they restore down the age of Wednesday?

Bobby Darin (who I think is criminally underrated) also had a huge hit with "Clementine", which also dealt with a darkly comedic death (Clementine was so chubby she destroyed a footbridge and drowned!) Definitely not PC (but that wasn't even the point in 1960!) but amazing how Darin had a knack for turning the darkly comedic into finger-snapping swingers. "Mack", "Artificial Flowers", "Clementine" all remain some of his most played and well-known.

Darin's fixation on death and treating it with this joyful irreverence makes total sense given he knew he had a limited time on this earth from the time he was a child (rheumatic fever had damaged his heart valves). Though if they ever produce the musical on his life, they better NOT use Jonathan Groff as they did in that 92Y concert. In fact, no one with legit chops should go near his songbook.

[quote]Darin's fixation on death and treating it with this joyful irreverence makes total sense given he knew he had a limited time on this earth from the time he was a child

If that didn’t kill him, seeing elderly Kevin Spacey (wearing a bad rug) portray him in a movie would have done it

R424 - 10000%. What a narcissistic piece of shit vanity project that was. The irony is that Darin's actual rugs were 100 times nicer than the ratty things that adorned Spacey's head.

Supposedly there's an HBO series in development on Bobby and Sandra Dee, based on their son's book. Apparently it's an attempt to tell the actual story (which Spacey's film refused to do) .

Darin's Oscar-nominated performance in "Captain Newman, M.D." is really terrific. Great movie and cast as well -- Gregory Peck in the title role, Angie Dickinson, fun comic relief Tony Curtis, and as the 3 psychiatric patients that are dealt with in some detail --- Darin, Robert Duvall in an early role, and an almost unrecognizable (I didn't know who he was for his first few minutes on screen), Eddie Albert. All excellent, and the psychiatric ward has later up-and-comers like Ted Bessell in it. Bobby Darin is a particular standout in this great cast.

I recent re-watched the 1962 remake of STATE FAIR. It's pretty bad overall, but Darin is very good in it, in a role that fits him perfectly. And he got to sing "This Isn't Heaven," a lovely new ballad written especially for him (or, at least, for his character) by Richard Rodgers -- both music and lyrics.

It's understandable why Addams Family is a popular show to do, especially for high schools. It's fun and silly with lots of good parts in it and "spooky/goth" is relatively easy to pull off for costumes and sets.

I'm also wondering if the rights might also be "value" priced at least compared to the huge monster musical hits which cost a lot to license.

That and maybe they were generous when it came to allowing video streaming of the show during Covid lockdown times. Not every license holder allows video productions of their material and/or want a shit ton of money for it.

[quote]It's understandable why Addams Family is a popular show to do, especially for high schools. It's fun and silly with lots of good parts in it and "spooky/goth" is relatively easy to pull off for costumes and sets.

Yes, that does make perfect sense. And of course, high school performers, audiences, and even drama directors might not be especially sensitive to, or care much about, the fact that the show's script and songs are dreck.

someone posted the Doubtfire curtain call. Crap all over the stage. Another confetti cannon finale, along with the Old Navy costumes? Yay Broadway

Old Navy costumes??? That costume designer Catherine Zuber has won 8 Tony Awards.2 more than William Ivey Long.

Who controls the Charles Addams estate and acts as executor to his works? Did he have any children?

"Addams Family is the top musical?"

Pathetic, isn't it? There was a time when you could participate in a high school musical and receive an education as well about history, culture, literature and life via shows like FIDDLER, SOUTH PACIFIC, OLIVER, THE KING AND I, and the other classics. Now it's mostly dumbed-down dreck. The maw of pop culture consumes everything in its path, including education.

Wicked movie delayed yet again. Production was due to start in March in Atlanta, will now start in June in London as Sky - another part of Comcast - are completing a new studio development in London, and they think it'll be cheaper to shoot at a studio they own

I didn’t know George Grizzard was gay.

[quote] Darin is very good in it, in a role that fits him perfectly. And he got to sing "This Isn't Heaven," a lovely new ballad written especially for him

“This Isn’t Heaven” is ione of the things I remember most from State Fair. As with all the new Rodgers material, it was lousy. And Darin gave it such a hokey performance it made it even worse.

Thanks for setting us all straight, R436. Heaven forbid anyone should disagree with you.

Good ol' Dot Records...

Thanks for the link, R438. I for one really like that song, and I do not consider Bobby Darin's performance of it "hokey."

I missed the earlier post about this, but who's seen WAS, and what happened to it? I read and loved the book when it came out, and I heard it was being turned into a musical, and I remember seeing a photo of it in American Theater magazine, but then it seemed to have disappeared. What went wrong?

Thanks for the link R438. Darin gives a nice performance, but it is a pretty lousy song. The lyrics are quite mediocre. Just like most of the lyrics Rodgers wrote other than the ones he did for No Strings.

And yet the Rodgers song is still better than 90% of the music written for the stage in the last 10 years.

I still have on vinyl that Dot soundtrack album of the State Fair remake and I saw the film on its original release. Yes, I am very old.

An unknown Ann Margret in a supporting role stole that film and her take on "Isn't Kinda Fun" just sizzled despite being nothing like the original.

The other great thing about that film was Alice Faye's return to the screen after a years long absence. She and Tom Ewell were charming and got new songs."Never Say No to a Man" may not be very woke today but it was another so likeable Rodgers waltz. Rodgers was a master of the waltz.

^ I even like Ewell's comic "Sweet Hog of Mine." Although reviled at the time of the film's release, it's another likeable Rodgers waltz. Both times I saw the stage version, John Davidson sang it very straightforwardly and brought down the house with it. Tone is everything.

I think it was the tap dancing pigs that killed the stage version. When I saw the next to last performance, the pigs' heads were gone and you saw the performers' faces. It worked so much better.

[quote]And yet the Rodgers song is still better than 90% of the music written for the stage in the last 10 years.

Exactly. Though I wouldn't say there's anything exceptional about the lyrics for "This Isn't Heaven," I think they're just fine, and the melody is pretty, so overall it's a good song. Not great, but I never said it was.

As a lyricist, Rodgers was a great tunesmith.

I sort of feel about "This Isn't Heaven" the same way I feel about "Something Good" from the movie of THE SOUND OF MUSIC. Rodgers' lyrics are only passable, but the melodies are so good that the overall quality of the songs is pretty high. And some of Rodgers' lyrics for NO STRINGS are better than the lyrics for either of the two songs I've just named.

Lots of people were unaware Grizzard was gay. His husband wrote for Time Magazine, I believe.

Oh, swell. Wicked is going to shoot in London, a city that turns out the worst fucking theatrical dancers in the world.

Does Wicked even have a script or director yet?

The director is John Chu and the writer is Winnie Holzman.

They should beg Daldry to come back. John Chu can't handle this story.

So it seems CAROLINE, OR CHANGE has gotten rave reviews and it will be interesting to see if they translate to a commercial hit and long(ish) run for the Roundabout. I don't know if they have anything scheduled yet for Studio 54 so perhaps it can stay there for awhile.

I love the show so much (saw the original at the Public and then on Broadway) though I had reservations about this production, which I feel is not always well-served by the overly busy direction and tacky, badly lit design. I worry that audiences unfamiliar with the script will have trouble following the nuances and details of the story-telling, complex for a Broadway musical, for sure. And that may result in some disappointment and bad word of mouth.

But I'm glad Kushner and Tesori are getting so much praise, all well-deserved.

[Quote] I worry that audiences unfamiliar with the script will have trouble following the nuances and details of the story-telling.

I'm curious as to why you think the staging impedes the story? I thought the narrative was made perfectly clear, especially as our current historical moment provides resonances that are far more prominent than they were when it was first staged almost two decades ago.

I'm also a big fan of the show, and am very happy it's received the thoroughly deserved raves - especially for Sharon D. Clarke. Its commercial potential will always be limited, I suspect, but I doubt anybody involved with the production expected otherwise - raves or no raves.

No one is going to see Wicked for the dancing.

The Minutes begins performances at Studio 54 in March.

Does Ben Feldman play the Jewish boy in Caroline?

[quote]Lots of people were unaware Grizzard was gay.

He certainly had me fooled!

Always made me think of chicken gizzards.

Did we know Stockard Chaning is doing 'Night Mother in London/ I, for one, did not.

Stockard is the new Anne Pitoniak.

[quote]Wicked movie delayed yet again.

We need more time to work out the wigs. I'm not going through THAT again, let me tell ya!

[quote]Did we know Stockard Chaning is doing 'Night Mother in London/ I, for one, did not

What hideous casting. The mother is supposed to be unsophisticated and simple. Stockard only does Upper East Side doyennes.

I saw it on Broadway with Brenda Blethyn. It’s a slog of a show. I aged four years in the pause after Edie Falco’s last exit.

Whatever happened to the Oprah/Audra McDonald production of Night Mother?

I thought is new production of "Caroline" was brilliant, far superior to the original Wolfe direction. A thrilling night at Studio 54. Liza would be proud.

[quote] Stockard is the new Anne Pitoniak

Unlike Stockard, Anne didn’t destroy her face with plastic surgery.

I saw the original production of 'Night Mother at the American Repertory Theatre in Cambridge, MA, (Anne Pitoniak and Kathy Bates). It was excellent and not a slog at all. I remember the audience filing out very somberly afterward.

[quote]It was excellent and not a slog at all.

I'm sure in Bates' and Pitoniak's hands it wouldn't be, r468.

Toothy chorus boy Max Clayton will be Hugh Jackman’s standby in Music Man.

The Terry Gilliam Into the Woods at the Old Vic has been cancelled. Sounds like the co-producers are looking for a possible new venue. Baz Bamigboye:

[quote]#StephenSondheim said to be upset with ⁦⁦⁦@oldvictheatre⁩ theatre’s decision to pull plug on show ruining plans of cast and crew who’d already signed up. Public treated shabbily, too. Scenario Two looking for another theatre.Terry Gilliam & Old Vic did not get on.

Lots of gloating about this on Twitter, seems Gilliam made some allegedly transphobic comments a while ago, which apparently means its now fine to celebrate a cast and crew being put out of work.

Wow, good for Max! He seems sweet enough even if he is with Matt Doyle who I find obnoxious and pretentious. Max has some killer thighs too!

Add me to the list of people who think Stockard Channing in 'NIGHT, MOTHER sounds like horrible casting. But, on a positive note, a least she's finally starting to take on age-appropriate roles :-)

r455, I meant new audiences possibly having trouble following Caroline, or Change because of the bad sound design or possibly the bad diction of several actors, the too often dark and gloomy lighting and the general business of the staging in a theater that's really too big for the show. Nevertheless, as I said upthread, because I love the show so much, I still enjoyed this revival. But I can imagine people not familiar with what they're about to see, getting kind of lost in it. I do hope it succeeds though...

I've only seen the Edie Falco/Brenda Blethyn (totally unbelievable as daughter and mother, btw) 'Night Mother and it was an AWFUL night in the theater. Directed by Michael Mayer, I'd like to remind you all.

Agreed, R475, that was a very bad production. The original with Bates and Pitoniak was a great production of just about the only good play Marsha Norman ever wrote.

I love Edie but she was terrible in Night Mother. She might be better in the mother role which she’s more appropriate for now.

[quote]apparently means its now fine to celebrate a cast and crew being put out of work.

Now? Ask Cynthia Erivo about that.

Oprah probably didn't want to do a downer of a show to give her another excuse to drown her sorrows in food.

I want to see a production of ‘Night Mother starring Julie Kavner and Yeardley Smith.

What we need is a zippy reimagining. Something like 'Night, Mamma! starring Liza and Jane Krakowski, preferably directed by Tommy Tune.

I want to see ‘Night Lin-Manuel where Man 6 and Lil-Manuel spar over a desperate evening and one will die at the end (voted upon by the audience).

The 'NIGHT MOTHER I've dreamed of for the past few years: Ann Dowd and Carrie Coon.

As long as there's an 'all of the above' option

I saw them in Side Show, r480.

The Lucille Lortel awards will be going gender neutral from next year, and adding a best ensemble award. So how long until #OffBwaySoMale?

so they knocked out four categories? is that the takeaway?

High school MAME...

Lucy/Mame will be on TCM at midnight tonight. I’m running out for popcorn and whiskey right now.

But have you got a jar of Vaseline handy, r489? You could rub some on your face and sing along with Lucy.

R490. Good idea. I’ll swing by Rite Aid 😂

Lucy loved the old vaseline trick. Kept that smile GLIDIN'!

What was that Martha Graham dance number (the four girls in blue) doing in the high school production of Mame? Was that while Patrick and Mame are hitting the town in Open a New Window?

Do stage versions of Mame have a giant Statue of Liberty head roll on stage for Mame and Patrick to sit on during Open a New Window?

Saw CAROLINE last night. Diction was fine.

Other possible 'NIGHT MOTHER casting:

Bonnie Franklin and Valerie Bertinelli Carol Burnett and Vicki Lawrence Vivian Vance and Lucie Arnaz

'Night Mother, starring Lee Grant & Dinah Manoff

Sissy Spacek and Anne Bancroft were so badly miscast as mother and daughter in the film on Night Mother. They should have reunited Debra Winger and Shirley Maclaine.

Dorothy Zbornak and Sophia Petrillo in 'Night Ma

Michael Learned and Judy Norton in ‘Night Ma, ‘Night Pa, ‘Night John Boy,, ‘Night Jason, ‘Night Erin, ‘Night Jim-Bob, ‘Night Ben, ‘Night Elizabeth

'Night Mother...the Musical!

With big tap-dancing candy bars.

I prefer dancing cigarette packs, r502.

I loved the film version of Night, Mother. I thought Bancroft and Spacek were excellent. And I feel like the text pretty much allowed the casting, as we hear so often how Spacek took after her father that it would follow she also resembles him more than the mother.

And the person upthread who commented about Stockard being miscast is dead on. She does not play rural women well. Her epic fail of a performance in Too Wong Foo should have shut the door on any further such casting.

Does anyone really want to see a production of this play? It struck me as pure torture first time around.

With everything we've been and are going through, who wants heavy drama?

Camille Saviola has died. May she rest in peace.

Camille...

[quote]Sissy Spacek and Anne Bancroft were so badly miscast as mother and daughter in the film on Night Mother.

That was one of several movies Bancroft made when, after years of apparently turning down offers of good roles (like Golde in the movie of FIDDLER ON THE ROOF) for whatever reasons, she suddenly decided she wanted to work again, and started taking roles that she wasn't right for and/or that she turned out to be really bad in due to horrendous overacting.

Bancroft was excellent and well-cast in "84 Charing Cross Road" around that time though.

The first time I ever saw Bancroft in anything was the Mel Brooks remake of To Be or Not to Be. I saw it in the movies as a kid. I thought she was so glamorous and elegant. Then I began seeing her in other films and I could not believe what a ham and fishwife she was. Her worst performance was in Torch Song Trilogy. She managed to out-mug Harvey Fierstein, the grande dame of ham.

[quote]Bancroft was excellent and well-cast in "84 Charing Cross Road" around that time though.

I've never seen that one, but I remember that many people felt she was miscast in 'NIGHT, MOTHER, and as R511 noted, her overacting in TORCH SONG TRILOGY was really terrible.

Her cameo in Mel Brooks' "Silent Movie" is also quite delightful.

She gives an odd performance in The Girl in Black Stockings.

[quote]Other possible 'NIGHT MOTHER casting: Carol Burnett and Vicki Lawrence

With Vicki as the mother, of course.

Joan and Christina in "'Night, Mommie Dearest"

[quote] after years of apparently turning down offers of good roles (like Golde in the movie of FIDDLER ON THE ROOF)

funny r509 i always Thought Norma Crane looked a bit like Bancroft in the movie but never knew Anne had turned it down

Dear God, ANNIE is coming back to Broadway again?! How desperate are these theatre owners?

Not Broadway, r518, but a new TV special.

And it’s woke, of course.

The Miracle Worker (stage and screen, Tony and Oscar) Two for the Seesaw (stage, Tony ) The Pumpkin Eater The Graduate The Turning Point 7 Women Agnes of God

5 Oscar noms in all, plus an Emmy/

Most actresses would kill for that career.

(Interested to imagine what her Joan Crawford would have been.)

[quote] Most actresses would kill for that career.

Yes but Datalounge approval is so much more meaningful

R521, no one is denying Bancroft's achievements in her prime. Some of us were merely pointing out that several of her performances in the latter part of her career were lousy because she was miscast in those roles and/or she overacted wildly in them. By the way, I had never seen AGNES OF GOD but I just watched the clip below, and I think Bancroft is incredibly false in it, so obviously ACTING -- or maybe schmacting.

Don't charge the argument just because you can't dispute the original point. It's extremely annoying when people do that.

Exactly, r523.

When Bancroft had a strong director to rein her in, Mike Nichols, Arthur Penn, even Herbert Ross, she could be magnificent.

R525, agreed. But also, she only seemed to star overacting in the latter part of her career. Maybe her later directors didn't have the nerve to try to rein her in.

Bancroft had better material to work with in the1960s.

[quote]Bancroft had better material to work with in the1960s.

Well, that may be true in general. But, for example, Estelle Getty was great in a very well written role in TORCH SONG TRILOGY, whereas Bancroft was a caricature in it.

I love Bancroft in The Turning Point. It’s probably my favorite AB performance. She’s cold, she’s sexy, she’s lonely, she’s worshipped and it’s all there on her face. And, even though we never see her dance, we never doubt that she’s a prima ballerina. I would love to have seen Maureen Stapleton play the Mother Superior in Agnes of God.

[quote] They should have reunited Debra Winger and Shirley Maclaine.

In that version of Night Mother, Shirley would have been the one to shoot Debra.

I can’t believe they gave that high school Mame gold pants but a top that looks like a white tee shirt.

Miss Ryan...

Someone tweeted Megan Mullally and Jane Krakowski should alternate between Mame and Vera in the musical version.

No. Just no. Cynthia Nixon and Laura Linney they ain’t.

How come The Turning Point doesn't seem to be streamable anywhere? I've somehow never seen it. I want to. Help.

Agree, r534. I've been looking too!

Bancroft’s delivery of the line “I can do a double” alone makes The Turning Point worth watching.

Shame Bancroft was too old for Master Class-she would have made a great Maria Callas.

Wasn't Audrey Hepburn originally offered Bancroft's role in The Turning Point for a Children's Hour reunion with Shirl? But I'm not sure she could have brought the same hauteur to the role as Annie does. For that matter, was MacLaine actually offered Dede first or was someone else in mind?

I can't remember any of the details now but The Turning Point has long been in various stages of development as a Broadway musical. Has anyone here ever heard about that?

Miss Bancroft was only 2 years older than Zoe Caldwell, who originated the role of Callas in MASTER CLASS.

One of the things that's hilarious, and perhaps revealing, to me about the attraction to this cheap, utterly meretricious play is the fact that virtually everyone who's played Callas in it has been older than she was at the time of the Juilliard classes.

Callas was a few months shy of her 48th birthday when the classes began. Caldwell had just turned 62 when it opened on Broadway. Dixie Carter turned 57 during her run in the part. Tyne Daly was 65 when she brought it back to Broadway. (Her understudy, one Jacqueline Antaramian, was 49. I doubt that she ever went on, however.) And Caldwell, Carter and Daly -- whatever their virtues -- all looked their ages, or older.

Patti LuPone, an un-favorite of mine, was actually exactly the right age (47) when she did it. Faye Dunaway was 55 when she toured in it but looked younger (this was before she ruined her face).

Streep would have been 65 had the planned HBO version directed by Mike Nichols come to pass.

Grace Kelly was offered Dede first, R537, but Prince Rainer said no.

Lucy was offered MASTER CLASS, but Gary talked her out of it.

No, no, you've got it all wrong... Lucy was offered the Jackie Bisset role in Class, but Andrew McCarthy talked her out of it.

Will we get a copy of the Scottish play from that theatre in Londontown?

Lucy had been dead for a few years when Master Class was done.

Bless your heart, r543.

Joanne Woodward was also considered for Dede. Turning Point was released on dvd about 15 yrs ago and I purchased a copy. Then it disappeared. HBO showed it a few times about 3 yrs ago and I have no idea why it hadn’t popped up on TCM. It deserves a criterion release. It’s a beautiful movie about the choices we make when we’re young and the regrets we might have later on in life.

Can you imagine Maureen Stapleton, Amanda Plummer, and Elizabeth Ashley backstage at the Music Box during the run of Agnes Of God? It would have been like the Hazelton Clinic of 45th Street.

At one point I remember reading that a stage adaptation of TTP was in development with Ann Reinking as Emma and Donna McKechnie as Dede. Perfect casting.

Except that neither of them could act.

[quote]Miss Bancroft was only 2 years older than Zoe Caldwell, who originated the role of Callas in MASTER CLASS. One of the things that's hilarious, and perhaps revealing, to me about the attraction to this cheap, utterly meretricious play is the fact that virtually everyone who's played Callas in it has been older than she was at the time of the Juilliard classes.

That's partly because the play's only "value" is as a ridiculous, stupid, offensive camp fest, so really old actresses are perfect for it.

[quote] Can you imagine Maureen Stapleton, Amanda Plummer, and Elizabeth Ashley backstage at the Music Box

Mo definitely wouldn't compare to the craziness of Gerry Page.

I really can't, r546.

[quote]Can you imagine Maureen Stapleton, Amanda Plummer, and Elizabeth Ashley backstage at the Music Box during the run of Agnes Of God?

Stapleton was not in AGNES OF GOD. I guess you meant Geraldine Page?

[quote]Except that neither of them could act, Zach.

FIFY, r548

R552- Read the comment from R529, Rose.

Gerry Page never did drugs. She was just naturally insane.

R554, sorry, I did miss that previous post. But anyway, seems to me that the idea of Ashley, Plummer, and Page (who actually did play the role of the Mother Superior) together backstage is pretty much as juicy as if Stapleton had played the part instead of Page.

I missed it as well.

R557, sorry, but I also don't get the "O. Deering" joke. And I did look her up.

Oh dearing by any other name, r558.

Desiree LuPone

No mention here yet that Bancroft was lined up to play Joan Crawford in you-know-what when it was going to be directed by Franco Zeffirelli?

[quote]And speaking of untalented, Rob Ashford has found his post-Sunset movie project doing a Bollywood musical for which he is as qualified as he was doing Tennessee Williams.

Oh, very funny!

Question about casting. I was looking on the Les Mis site yesterday, just idly curious if it had reopened in London given the level of COVID still circulating. And the cast - from Valjean and Javert onward - all looked to be in their twenties. Are they now just hiring young because it's cheap and is this a trend of just the tourist trap productions?

Young and hot, r563.....or just young??

Well, I mean it's a musical theatre actor so hot is in the eye... no, bowls of oatmeal, basically.

Except, r561, my mention of it earlier in the thread.

Happy 18th Birthday, Wicked.

[quote] It would have been like the Hazelton Clinic of 45th Street.

Oh dear

Whatever happened to theatrical impresario/swindler Mitchell Maxwell?

R542 No, not unless it gets released to streaming or some other format. The guy who captured those types of broadcasts has stopped doing it.

ReBEEEEEEEECca!!!

R570 thanks and so sad to hear that! He really was incredible

I saw CAROLINE today. A mess of a musical with Kushner trying to do far too much in too little time. And he's not a good lyricist. But the production is gosh-darn wonderful; great casting and singing. And the star title performance is magnificent.

La Benanti is missing some attention right now

So that's her excuse for a 20 year old production. What's her excuse for missing tons of shows in every other production she's been in since?

[quote]Will we get a copy of the Scottish play from that theatre in Londontown?

I watched the live stream on Thursday, but had no way to capture it.

I enjoyed the first half. Very stark & dark. Solid performances, some beautifully thick Scottish accents, an onstage cellist, and, though in modern dress, it didn't annoy. Unfortunately, I thought it went off the rails after the interval. Lots of screaming, shouting, amped-up action and hysterics. I liked that Lady Macbeth was witness to the murder of Macduff's family -- as it contributes to her descent into madness in the following scenes -- but the violent onstage drowning of Macduff's wife was unnecessary. Also uncomfortable to watch: the later scene between Malcolm and Macduff featured so much spit and slobber that the first rows in the theater could probably be considered splash zones. Water is a dominant motif in this production (because reasons) and the stage looked to be about an inch deep in it by the end. At least McArdle spends a good portion of the second half bare-chested, which was nice to see amongst the general bleakness.

Well, r576, Andrea *is* a bosomy lass.

[quote]So that's her excuse for a 20 year old production. What's her excuse for missing tons of shows in every other production she's been in since?

Umm...the same excuse, I assume. She says that she has suffered chronic pain of one sort or another since those accidents, continuing to this day. If that's true, it's certainly understandable, if unfortunate, as to why she calls out so frequently.

Happy Halloween!

which press agents are the most self important and obnoxious these days?

Thanks R576, you are great and I thank you for all you have provided us. I would not be surprised if they release it in some form. I actually liked it a lot, more than I expected. And it had Emun Elliott, an actor that I have loved since one day at St. Ann's Warehouse I discovered him in that wonderful production of Black Watch.

The night I saw Agnes Of God on Bway was during Carrie Fisher's first week. Backstage must have sounded like a hog farm. Carrie was awful, she wasn't even trying. But when the lights came down to start Act 2 , they stayed down because Ashley missed her cue. In the semi-darkness, the audience could see her race on to center stage, and as the lights came up, the sound of her hawking up a coke luggie. could be heard through her body-mike. It's an unmistakable sound for those who are familiar with blow. The audience must have been very familiar, because the place erupted in guffaws. Ashley could hardly keep a straight face.

R579 I never miss a Billy Barty musical.

Babs sure sings the hell out of that crappy song.

WHo is the woman in that photo on the Halloween song video, because it sure ain't Cook. She had porked out by then.

Love Carrie Fisher but she was way out of her league in Agnes. Fortunately she was absent more than she was on.

Well, I'd rather have seen her understudy, r585...Maryann Plunkett.

Whenever Carrie stunk it/was time for Maryann Plunkett...

For no reason...

This thread could use some Miss Kit Andrée...

What’s happening with The Devil Wears Prada musical?

Judith Ivey OUT at Morning's at 7. Nancy Ringham in. Camelot redux.

R591, what happened?

Ivey broke her leg. Or something.

Judith takes things *so* literally, r593!

That is definitely Cook in that Halloween photo. For crying out loud, it looks exactly like her. It was about six months after The Grass Harp, and she actually looks a bit thinner than in the earlier show. After her horrible experience with Halloween is when she began her slide into extreme obesity. Her coming out Carnegie Hall concert was almost three years later.

Judith tore a tendon, apparently. Either way, ouch.

I've worked with Judith. She is great onstage and off. I'm sure this is legit.

Is Judith Light available to take over?

Bajour

Bajour toujours!