Why didn't Elizabeth Montgomery become a movie star?

Few TV stars make it in film.

People had gotten her for free on tv for many years, plus she started doing some very good tv movies like "A Case of Rape" and the Lizzie Borden one. Movie producers probably felt she had been giving it away for so many years, why would they pay to see her in the movies. I'm a fan, btw. She was lovely and a wonderful actress.

She was a bitch to anyone she didn't like, including her father.

"Bewitched" was one of the most gay-friendly sets and casts of any show during its time. Give her and her husband props for that at least. Unfortunately they seemed recycle old Dick York scripts for Dick Sargent after a while when writers couldn't come up with nothing new. I guess they thought the new guy and the change to color would fool viewers.

with "anything new" that is.

I can see her in a change of pace as Nurse Ratched.

in 1972 you could count on one hand performers who transitioned from TV to feature stardom...... name them for me elder gays....

She probably could have in the early 70s had she wanted to do so, because she was such a huge star then. Every TV movie she did in the 70s ("When the Circus xame to town," "Lizzie Borden," etc.) was ranked #1 for the week and was usually the highest ranked TV movie that year.

My sense was that she didn't want to work so hard just then, though--she liked being around her teenage children, and only did one TV movie a year. To have done an actual movie every year would have meant being away more from her children.

My understanding is that she was an extremely good person: lovely to her gay friends, a good mother, someone every one liked being around.

Well, dying certainly affected her career arc.

According to my dad she lost her stardom (and his respect) when she kissed Sidney Poiter in a movie....

Clint Eastwood, Steve McQueen, James Garner, Shelley Fabares (ok pushing it, but she left Donna Reed for Elvis movies), John Travolta few years later on... that's what I've got thus far

totally could have seen her as Linda Blairs mom in The Exorcist

R7, Mia Farrow, Jackie Gleason, Clint Eastwood, Ryan O'Neal, Tuesday Weld, James Dean, Steve McQueen, James Garner, Don Knotts, Carol Burnett, Barbara Parkins...

TV stars back then didn't transition into Hollywood. They were treated as completely separate mediums with TV seen as the inferior one. Usually it was washed up Hollywood stars that ended up on TV. That changed in the 80s and 90s though, I can think of Bruce Willis, Michael J Fox, Will Smith, Demi Moore, Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp, Anne Hathaway, etc who all started on TV. And funnily now, TV is considered much higher quality in writing and budgets.

Warren Beatty too was on "Dobie Gillis"

R14 TV writing mostly isn't about spectacles and CGI and Marvel comic books like movies have become.

I love her but she's not a great actress. She'd been in a few movies earlier in her career but honestly Jane Fonda took the roles she would have gotten, and did a better job at it, too. Walk on the Wild Side, Period of Adjustment, Cat Ballou were all films Montgomery COULD have done, she had the presence and the look for them, but just not the talent.

There also used to be prestige hierarchy with movie stars on top, then tv (with rock somewhere either equal or less in prestige), while on the wealth hierarchy rock stars on top, then movie stars, then tv stars. That changed somewhat, though movie stars are still considered prestigious (at least if they can really act and not just co-star with CGI).

How about Elizabeth Montgomery and Barbara Eden squaring off in The Turning Point? Brains of gays from the '60s and '70s would have exploded.

The prestige hierarchy was so fixed that when Helen Hunt won the Best Actress Oscar in 2000 she bitched about it in her acceptance speech, as if that had been the only thing holding her back from being a movie star until then.

You could move from being a movie star to being a TV star and then go back again, but it was hard to take the reverse route, though there were a few exceptions, mostly male (Burt Reynolds, Clint Eastwood, Warren Beatty--Mia Farrow is one of the few women who made the move).

Jane Fonda is not very good, in fact, she's pretty mediocre to bad in some of her pre-"Klute" movies, especially "Any Wednesday" and "In the Cool of the Day" and some of those Roger Vadim films She got better with lots of experience in front of the camera. Elizabeth Montgomery had done tv dramas before "Bewitched" and she was equally good in comedy and drama. She would have been fine in some of Fonda's roles.

By all accounts she was happy to do one TV movie a year and spend the rest of her time with family; she didn't have the drive to be the biggest star. It's a shame she never won an Emmy though, especially for "The Legend of Lizzie Borden."

[quote] Jane Fonda is not very good, in fact, she's pretty mediocre to bad in some of her pre-"Klute" movies,

But she's quite good in others, like "The Chapman Report" and "Barefoot in the Park." and "Cat Ballou."

Her Lizzie Borden performance was brilliant. I don't know after seeing that you could say she wasn't talented. I remember it 30 years later.

OP's set up is just about THE MOST ANNOYING AND CLOYING way to start a simple discussion of an actress.

Which of these movies could have starred Elizabeth Montgomery?

L'Année dernière à Marienbad

Night of the Living Dead

Hello, Dolly!

The divide between being a movie star and a tv star was huge.

For years, it was considered a downgrade to be on tv and an upgrade to move into movies.

It was very difficult to switch between them.

It's just a hunch but - her father had been a movie star and she grew up around movie stars. Maybe the whole movie star thing just didn't hold that much mystique for her.

She had an annoying voice.

She looked like the ghastly Nicole Kidman.

She had an upturned Jane Fonda nose which precluded her from appearing in dramatic roles.

Goldie Hawn went directly from TV to winning an Academy Award.

She was beautiful and an asset to anything she appeared in, whether a TV series or made for TV film. Leave it to some bitter freaks on Datalounge to talk shit about her.

Kino Lorber Studio Classics has just released The Victim on Blu ray, and I highly recommend it. An early 70s TV movie thriller. Cozy and suspenseful. I love every minute of it.

I like her voice, but think her talent was scaled for the small screen, where she excelled. That was good enough.

She was in the film "Who's Been Sleeping in My Bed?" opposite Dean Martin, though if I recall, seeing it on tv when they squeezed movies into 90 minute blocks with commercials, the best part was Carol Burnett forced to do what turns into a very funny striptease. But I don't think Elizabeth did many theatrical movies.

She was real cold . In mid 60’s right before Bewitched, she divorced Gil Young and ghosted all of her friends from the last 10 years of her life. It was very hurtful.

Good for her, R33. Sometimes you have to start over. Who cares?

R33, Gig (not Gil) Young was known to be a really bad drunk.

R34, she had a lot of friends who loved her . It hurt them terribly.

She was smart to get out while she could.

Who's Been Sleeping...

Thanks for the movie link. Damn, it's over 2 hours and they put it on the 4:30 movie before the 6:00 news many years ago. I first saw "Singin' in the Rain" there, and didn't think too much of it; I later found out they practically cut out all of Debbie Reynolds' role!

A scene...

If Liz had starred in For Pete's Sake, we'd have missed out on a lot of Barbra Streisand projects from the 1970s, such as her ButterFly album and the films A Star Is Born and The Main Event. Streisand met Jon Peters while working on FPS and the rest is herstory.

It’s not really over 2 hours long. The uploader appended another part of the movie at the end of the video to ‘trick’ YouTube from recognizing it.

Also, that uploader is a dingbat. He calls it “HQ HD 1080p” but it’s really low resolution and looks to be taken from a poor source. Not sure if it’s DVD or VHS, but it doesn’t look good. My YouTube player won’t play it any higher than 480p (I have no problem watching anything else in 1080p at the moment).

The Film and TV divide remain strong even into the 2000s, despite innovative shows like The Sopranos, The Wire, and Six Feet Under. I remember reading that Thomas Jane turned down playing Don Draper in Mad Men because, according to his agent, "Thomas Jane doesn't do television." Then years later, with movie roles dried up and hard to come by, he decided to do Hung, which lasted only a few seasons.

Maybe it was Breaking Bad that finally made people realize that television could deliver a cinematic experience equal to Film.

Agnes Moorhead went back and forth between TV and movies.

R41 We might have been spared the sight of Barbra's afro. How many years did she keep that look? Almost as bad as Bernie's on "Room 222".

Agnes was a character actress, r44. Character actresses could do that.

Liz Montgomery is in the audience during an episode of The Carol Burnett Show and during the opening Carol points her out and says they made a movie together. Liz said she watched it on an airplane and there were 13 walkouts.

Men had more luck going from tv to movies than women in those days. Barbara Parkins (mentioned above) didn't have much of a movie career. Mia Farrow's career fizzled rather quickly and then she wound up in small films. Montgomery only did a few films before "Bewitched" and she didn't come across as someone who could carry A-film. She had enough trouble in some overlong sitcom like "Who's Been Sleeping In My Bed". Better to be queen of the tv movies and get her pick of the best ones than trying to have a theatrical movie career. At least she never had to resort to dinner theater like Barbara Eden, who was truly an inferior actress. Montgomery finished Bewitched at an age where she was too old for ingenues and in an era where roles for women her age went to more character-like actresses. It wouldn't have been long before she would have been cast in thankless "mother" roles. She possessed the look and mid-Atlantic type accent of Jane Fonda but I suspect she lacked Fonda's ambition and willingness to try all kinds of things. She was good as Lizzie Borden, but I don't think she could have done Klute.

David Joliffe should have played Lowenstein's son in "Prince of Tides" instead of Jason Gould.

Barbara Eden went from TV to the hit film Harper Valley PTA to TV. She could do it all.

I wouldn't consider Mia's Woody films "small", r48.

Barbara Eden did a lot of theater and touring in things like "South Pacific" and "Woman of the Year" among other things. She had a really excellent singing voice.

R51, The Great Gatsby in 1974 was the most heavily promoted film since Cleopatra. Plus Mia took a long break to be a good mother to her kids in England and appeared on the stage there.

Mia had a huge career resurgence when she was with Woody. Some of those films, and her performances are wonderful, among them "Hannah and Her Sisters", "Alice", Blue Rose of Cairo", and especially her hilarious performance in "Broadway Danny Rose".

[quote]She was a bitch to anyone she didn't like, including her father.

No, her father was cold and distant.

She did too many game shows. But I could see her in the 'Ordinary People" role and most Lee Remick things like "The Omen".

All kinds of bizarre takes in this thread.

Mia Farrow’s career “fizzled” so then she did smaller films?

“Actually, Elizabeth Montgomery was very mean and a poor actress. Pay no mind to how beloved she was then and remains today.”

Thanks for imparting such … uncommon wisdom. Now go to bed, sundowners.

She could’ve done Beth in Ordinary People.

Her father was a fairly good looking mediocre actor/leading man who segued into TV production. Elizabeth was a talented comedian who started in TV and stayed there. Most actors who crossover then and now do so through networking and a willingness to accept the demands of each medium. In TV it's the hours. In film it's the boredom.

Annette Funicello became a movie star.

R59, Robert Montgomery was excellent in the film noir "Ride the Pink Horse." But you're right, he was pretty mediocre in everything else.

She hurt Dominick Dunne’s wife badly when she clipped them all without any warning or explanation.

[quote]Mia Farrow is one of the few women who made the move

Sally Field was in 2 successful TV series and went on to be a big star.

Goldie Hawn was the blonde ditz on Laugh In and also went on to become an A-list star.

Carol Burnett certainly.

To a lesser extent Mary Tyler Moore, but she was nominated for an Academy Award.

Don't forget George Burns...

[quote]Barbara Eden went from TV to the hit film Harper Valley PTA

No, the movie "Harper Valley PTA was a flop, BUT NBC replayed it on TV and it was a smash on TV, leading the then third placed network to commission a TV show.

Bette Davis characterized Robert Montgomery as the male Miriam Hopkins, competent but hammy. He was in the second tier of A-listers and was smart to segue into tv when the studios were in decline and the niche for actors like him was drying up.

Liz Montgomery started in tv but did do films but never in a truly leading role.

I think Bette Davis acknowledged Miriam Hopkins was a fine actress, but she called her out as being a bitch and also someone who tried to pull focus and steal scenes if she could. Robert Montgomery's style I think has aged. He's also good in "Night Must Fall" carrying that hatbox around.

Robert Montgomery was an excellent light comedian in films like “Private Lives”. But he wanted to play tough guys, like his BFF Jimmy Cagney did, whilst Cags longed to play the kind of sophisticated tuxedo-clad role that Montgomery was typecast in. Hollywood is a strange place.

Montgomery is very underrated in my opinion. He was excellent as the low-key lead in “They Were Expendable”. And of course, romantic comedy is not as easy to play as it looks.

R64, the film Harper Valle PTA made $25 million on a budget of $1 million. That's hardly a flop.

"Annette Funicello became a movie star."

Oh so briefly, r60.

R70: I think someone was joking, although she made a bigger splash with Frankie than, say, Shelly Fabares did with Elvis. Liz Montgomery's husband directed those silly beach movies and Liz did uncredited parts.

Robert Montgomery had been a naval officer and John Ford also had served, so "They Were Expendable" wasn't much of a stretch.

She was in the running to play Carole Lombard in the biopic Gable and Lombard.

That Gable and Lombard picture was horrible. She was better off doing tv movies.

She had a somewhat piggy nose and long face but more importantly, she wasn't seen as an especially distinctive performer. Good. More than good, really. But that wasn't enough.

She could have played DL fave Beth Jarrett in "Ordinary People." Would have been the same casting against type as MTM.

Except MTM was coming off a huge TV show. Liz' show had ended much earlier in the decade.

MTM clearly played a part of herself as Beth. Montgomery didn't seem to have that brittle, repressed quality. She seemed more the extrovert and someone liked to fuck around. Buck wouldn't have wanted that in a mother.

I think she would have been great as the wife lead in 1976's "The Omen," but that maybe producers or she would have felt that as being too much of an attempt to capitalize on her witch-related longrunning TV series notoriety, or Liz would never have considered it for such a reason, since she nicely attempted to go in completely different directions with her acting choices in the years after "Bewitched" ended.

Lee Remick was divine

I could see her in Same Time, Next Year, even though Ellen Burstyn was fantastic and had performed it on Broadway.

I think Liz would have been strong in Carol Burnett's role in The Four Seasons.

R82: The Four Seasons was basically a tv movie. It would have been better if the ending had involved the other cast members drowning Alan Alda.

She should have had a part in "Airplane!"

She could have had Barbara Barrie's role in Breaking Away

I would love it if she played Nurse Ratched. It would sorta be a mind fuck for everyone to see her that way. Back then, if you were labeled a tv star, you couldn't really get into movies. Now it is the opposite where prestigious actors and actress are flocking to tv because that's the only place they can find work with good writing. Movies have been turned into an arena where you try to sell as many seats as possible, and it's just cheap gruel for the masses. ie Marvel, Fast and the Furious, etc.

Goldie Hawn got in the movies.

By 1970's many actresses mostly famous for television roles such as Mary Tyler Moore, Elizabeth Montgomery, and others were entering late 30's or going into their 40's. Not a good age to be seeking breakout major motion picture roles.

The 1970's wasn't that much different than previous decades, nor following nearly right up to present. By age 30 or certainly 40's many actresses just "age out" of Hollywood as there just aren't great roles for older women. There are of course mothers, grandmothers, matrons, etc..

Sure there were a few great roles for older actresses in in 1960's and 1970's. Mrs. Robinson (The Graduate) was one, and then (in 1967) 35 year old Ann Bancroft beat out a long list of competition. Had film/casting been done a decade later AB would have been 45 and likely crossed off list along with other older actresses.

Robert Montgomery lucked out in that he worked with George Cukor before the latter went to Hollywood. RM followed and on basis of that relationship received a contract with MGM.

Without the studio system Robert Montgomery wouldn't have had half the career he did; sadly his daughter came along just as golden age of Hollywood was coming to an end.

Elizabeth Montgomery's first acting gig came on her father's television show. Other television and stage work followed, but comparatively little film roles.

Then came Bewitched which of course made Ms. Montgomery a huge television star. Show ran for about nine years, by time EM ended things it would have been difficult to impossible to get into films after decades in television.

At least made for television films allowed EM to rank as "star". Can you imagine some producer or director offering Ms. Montgomery a spot lower down on credits?

In early 1980's EM made a huge bundle doing "Samantha" for television commercials shown in Japan for a brand of cookies. When she returned to television in USA it was in roles totally different than Samantha Stephens. Television in 1980's was doing things that major motion pictures didn't take on, such as "A Case Of Rape". Suppose "Lizzie Borden" could have been done as a horror film, but it worked rather better on television IMHO.

[quote]Now it is the opposite where prestigious actors and actress are flocking to tv because that's the only place they can find work with good writing. Movies have been turned into an arena where you try to sell as many seats as possible, and it's just cheap gruel for the masses. ie Marvel, Fast and the Furious, etc.

This sounds like a quote from Jodie Foster.

Joan Crawford continued to play leads into her sixties.

Yes, but no offense Elizabeth Montgomery wasn't Joan Crawford.

IIRC JC was rather relentless in going after film work. Don't believe EM was ever that bothered, least don't read or otherwise hear about her going for roles and was turned down.

Also Joan Crawford was a major film *star* who was working long before Elizabeth Montgomery was out of the nursery (or even born), with a solid C.V. of movies to her credit.

In any event Ms. Crawford's last work (television or film) was in early 1970's while Elizabeth Montgomery was still riding high on Bewitched. Films from 1960's and early 1970's were different than what was to come out of "new Hollywood" by late 1970's and into 1980's.

Joan Crawford died in 1977 which took her out of the running in any event. Had she lived don't believe much if any film work would have come by late 1970's or 1980's. Well not unless JC was willing to take anything. Something like Bette Davis in Burnt Offerings......

Crawford was a sight gag in some of her later work. Montgomery, thankfully, never was.

Joan Crawford was a bonafide Movie Star. Elizabeth Montgomery was always a television star, who probably never cared about Movie Stardom the way other actresses did.

I feel if Elizabeth really wanted it & was ambitious enough to pursue it. She probably could've became some version of a Movie Star. She had a bombshell appearance to me. She could've definitely been a bond girl or even stared in some Alfred Hitchcock films in the late 50s early 60s. She just had that look about her.

Let's not pretend campy wasn't part of Elizabeth's CV.

There was a certain little thing she couldn’t do very well. Let me get a tissue then I’ll explain.

What was William Asher like as a husband? He seemed to last about a decade with each wife (17 years, I think, with Joyce Bulifant).

And then there were the backwards moves - movie actors that eventually ran out of chances on film and went to TV with varying success. Of course the queen of this move was Lucy. But there were others:

Joey Heatherton

Candice Bergen

Sal Mineo

Rock Hudson

Joan Collins

Bette Davis

Loretta Young

Cesar Romero

Lassie!

No mention of Donna Reed, dear?

Hitchcock wanted Montgomery for the role of Tippi Hedren's sister in his brilliant film Marnie, but she was tied down to her sitcom by then.

It was released in July of 1964, which was when Bewitched was beginning to film. She easily could have done "Marnie", except there is no sister. There is a sister-in-law (the Connery character's not the Hedren's) which was played by the forgettable Diane Baker. Not much of a part if that's what she was up for.

Surprised no one’s has brought up the film Amos, in which she played a bitchy, sadistic nurse ala Nurse Ratched opposite Kirk Douglas. I loved seeing her in villainous roles.

No one

There are certain stage actors whose talent does not transfer to the screen - big or small screen

There are a lots of movie actors whose talent and personalities are too overwhelming for the small screen.

Finally, there are TV actors who are special on the small screen and completely disappear on the big screen.

I assume Elizabeth Montgomery's appeal on TV was thought not to be for movies. She was overexposed to the public in Bewitched, and the powers that be didn't want Samantha Stephens in any of their movies. Elizabeth also probably didn't want to do a nude or partially nude scene in a movie - all the rage for women in the 1970s.

Joan Crawford putting the moves on Ty Hardin in "Beserk" was cringeworthy.

Yes, JC was only 43, but in 1967 that was old. Mind you Ty Hardin was about 37, so guess could see how it might work..

Joan Crawford's hairstyle in "Bersek" didn't do her any favors either.

R107, Crawford was 53 when she made Berserk.

[quote] Elizabeth also probably didn't want to do a nude or partially nude scene in a movie - all the rage for women in the 1970s.

Yet she did, in The Legend Of Lizzie Borden!

(Unless that was a body double? I think there was even an international theatrical version that showed a little more nudity and violence.)

R107, I hope you bubble didn't burst. Confusing 53 with 43 is quite disoriented.

R110, Lizzie Borden was TELEVISION, no comparison to movies.

Not every actress was required to go full-frontal in every theatrical film in the 70s, R112. I highly doubt that had anything to do with Montgomery not appearing in theatrical films.

MTM's movie career wasn't exactly restarted by "Ordinary People".. The "Four Seasons" didn't launch a new chapter for Carol Burnett. Even a good film or at least on that was popular doesn't achieve this.

Mary, Carol AND Elizabeth were 40+ or nearing 40. Unless one of them was a superlative actress, there wasn't going to be a movie career.

Everyone cannot be a Joan Crawford/Elizabeth Taylor level movie star.

That type of movie Stardom is the gold standard. The films the international fame the money the lifestyle the Oscar the accolades etc.

That's the level of Movie Stardom aspiring film stars want. Not everyone achieves it though.

R116, Thanks for the info, Captain Obvious.

What would Elizabeth Montgomery's "My Way of Life" have featured?

She should have starred in a groundbreaking film about lesbians, since she was such a friend to the LGB community.

R119

Decades too late, but something along lines of "Far From Heaven" would have been more ground breaking.

Would Elizabeth be saying "Weeeeel" (well) in those movies?

She’s TV level.

I don’t think Liz was terribly ambitious either. She made a fortune off of Bewitched since her and Bill Asher, her former hubby, owned a piece of it. She turned down Dynasty, the Colby’s and a Bewitched TV movie. Aaron Spelling said she didn’t want to commit to another series. I’m sure the work on Bewitched was grueling. Unsure if she had any feature film offers. She probably thought she would just get lost in the shuffle of other forty something actresses, so she stuck to tv.

This thread is like asking why James Brolin didn't star in Jaws, Barry Lyndon All the President's Men and Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.

ANSWER: TOO TV

(and a mediocre actor to boot)

Elizabeth was lively. Brolin is a block of wood.

Elizabeth was lively in Bewitched. THE END.

R124, nope. Brolin was set to take on 007, but Roger Moore decided to return for Octopussy.

That's what they said about John Gavin re Diamonds Are Forever... but no American has played Bond for EON. I don't think that's a coincidence.

That's what they said about Erik Estrada in Moonraker... they should have called JAMES BROLIN!

Montgomery was Kazan's second choice for Eva marie Saint's role in On the Waterfront. He said he'd have cast her but she seemed a bit too boarding-school for the character.

^ BEFORE Bewitched

Bewitched ruined everything

James Garner made it for a while…

That's like saying Dean Jones made it for a while...

She played head nurse Daisy Daws (I swear) who ruled the nursing home with an iron fist in a 1985 TV movie costarring Kirk Douglas. It was Montgomery's Nurse Ratched

Lots of actors Clint Eastwood, Steve McQueen, Burt Reynolds, James Garner, Sally Field, Dick Van Dyke, Mary Tyler Moore made successful transitions from TV-theatrical films.

R133 Garner was in films from 1956-2004s the Notebook and he was a regular presence and leading man in films in the 60s and 70s and was Oscar-nominated for Murphy's Romance in 1986 . He was in Grand Prix, The Great Escape, The Children's Hour, Victor/Victoria, Move Over Darling, The Skin Game, The Americanization of Emily. He was in several hit TV series as well like The Rockford Files in the 70s

R136

Think most would generally agree Hollywood was then and still is more favorable to male actors as they age. This gives them more opportunities to move between small and large screens. OTOH good roles for actresses start drying up by middle thirties and certainly into their forties.

George Burns was well into senior citizen status when he landed the "Oh God" film series.

R137 if it wasn’t for Burns Oscar in 1976, he would’ve been largely forgotten. Oh, God isn’t exactly Shakespeare, like some roles for actresses in middle age. You take the best thing that’s available to you all you can do, or hightail to Broadway or off Broadway which a lot of actresses have done. At least nowadays there’s better roles for all actors and actresses with so many streaming options.

R137 Don't forget Burns' female counterpart Ruth Gordon in her mid sixties and in the mid sixties she was popular in films like Rosemary's Baby, Where's Poppa, Lord Love a Duck, Every Which Way But Loose, Harold and Maude, Whatever Happened to Aunt Alice . .

Dick Van Dyke and Mary Tyler Moore, other than a couple of films successful films, did not become "movie stars." Both were back in series in the early 70s after trying. MTM Ordinary People was great, but she went back to TV immediately.

She made a movie with Ted Danson.

R141, making a movie with Ted Danson or making a movie with Don Knotts does not make a TV star a Movie Star.

[Quote] making a movie with Ted Danson does not make a TV star a Movie Star.

You wouldn't make the same comment about Tom Selleck.

Good example. Tom Selleck made several movies trying to become a movie star. But he NEVER became a Movie Star, Selleck was a TV "actor" failing to make the transition.

If only he could have done Indy!

R140 In the 60s Dick Van Dyke was in Bye, Bye Birdie, Mary Poppins, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, The Comic, Never a Dull Moment. The Art of Love , Fitzwilly ,Divorce American Style, Lt. Robinson Crusoe and What a Wat to Go! many of which appeared in theaters while he was still on The Dick Van Dyke Show

R146, only three of those movies were hits.

“Television” star…oxy, meet moron.

R3, wasn’t her father a right wing asshole?

R147 Van Dyke working steadily in films in the 60s while Montgomery did squat and in the last decade Brad Pitt appeared in Ad Astra, By the Sea, Moneyball, Fury, Allied, Tree of Life, War Machine, Killing Them Softly and World War Zzzzz! Not one of them a hit.

Working steadily is a good thing. But acting in a bunch of flops does not make you a MOVIE STAR. Dick Van Dyke was a TV star who appeared in a bunch of flops. People didn't go to see him in these movies, he wasn't a draw. I remember, being an elder.

R151 Look at R150 Pitt's resume the last 10 years is not impressive yet he still gets jobs and so did Van Dyke

Once Upon a Time In Hollywood was a flop?

[quote] Warren Beatty too was on "Dobie Gillis"

Yeah, Warren Beatty had a much better film career than fellow Dobie Gillis classmate Tuesday Weld, who made one decent film “Play it as it Lays,” then years later did a bit part in Looking for Mr Goodbar, for which she was overly praised.

R153 So 1 hit for Brad in a decade of flops Bye, Bye Birdie and Mary Poppins weren't flops either and Cold Turkey (1971) was a sleeper while Brad's output has been a snooze.

R150, Moneyball made more than $110 million and won Oscar nods for best picture and actor. World War Z made more than half a billion dollars at the box office. Tree of Life made more than $60m and is widely considered one of the greatest films of the 21st century. Get your facts correct, pal.

R156 and what about Kalifornia, True Romance, Seven Years in Tibet, Meet Joe Black, Troy, The Devil's Own, Snatch, Sleepers, The Mexican, Babel, Spy Game, Legends of the Fall, A River Runs Through It and all the mediocre, forgettable crap he starred in? His filmography is unimpressive and even hits like Mr. and Mrs. Smith and Oceans 11, 12, 13 will never stand the test of time. His career was more about Jen and Angie publicity. And Tree of Life is by many accounts a pretentious piece of shit

R157, Kalifornia has a strong cult following and True Romance is considered a modern crime classic, with Pitt's small role a highlight. He's made some shitty movies, but so has every star of his magnitude. His performance in OUTIA is pitch perfect and no one else could have played the character as well as Pitt. He deserved that Oscar..

R158 Who ever discusses these films or any of his films except for Fight Club? and his performance in OUIH was fine, but hardly outstanding or memorable.

R159, you don't seem to understand the art of film acting. My guess is you need to see big showy dramatic scenery-chewing or it's not acting to you.

R160 Actually I watch the Criterion Channel and watch many films not just Hollywood junk. La Dolce Vita, The Innocents, Room at the Top, The Nun's Story, The Pianist, Blowup, Forbidden Games, Nights of Cabiria, Rosemary's Baby, Double Indemnity, Kiss Me, Deadly, Goodfellas, Dog Day Afternoon, All the President's Men, Chinatown, Citizen Ruth, Living in Oblivion, Zodiac, Pretty Poison, Slaughterhouse-5 are among my favorites and nothing Clooney, Roberts, Pitt, Jolie, Ryan Reynolds or Gosling ever appeared in come within striking distance of those films.

R161, we had a feeling you were pretentious. You verified it.

R162 who's 'we' and did one of you say the boring and pretentious The Tree of Life was one of the greatest films of the 20th century? I think I hear your mother calling you. . .good bye

Beatty did not have the kind of tv career that James Garner, Steve McQueen, et al., had. Their transition was more notable because they went from "tv star" (leading a successful series) to a "movie star" (starring in successful films).

The Tree of LIfe is a work of genius. Pretension doesn't figure into the equation, especially when you feel the need to name drop the Criterion Channel to defend your "taste."

R7 Goldie Hawn (Oscar winner), Sally Field (2 Oscars), Burt Reynolds, James Garner, Steve McQueen, Clint Eastwood, Lily Tomlin, Art Carney (Oscar winner), Jackie Gleason. . .

R166, plus James Dean was primarily a prolific actor in TV dramas, apart from a couple of Broadway shows, when he became a film star.

R165

R162

R158

R156

R152, Look at De Niro's resume of the last 10 years is not impressive yet he still gets jobs...

Look at Redford's, Pacino's, Nicholson's, Hoffman's, Harrison Ford's resumes of the last 10 years, not impressive yet they still could get jobs...

That's what being in the twilight or past the expiration date of one's career brings - shitty movies. However, the above actors were not tainted by being in a TELEVISION series.

R172 Look at Redford's filmography even earlier in the 70s and 80s not inspiring.

The Natural, Legal Eagles, Little Fauss and Big Halsey, The Great Waldo Pepper, The Electric Horseman, A Bridge Too Far, Out of Africa, Jerimiah Johnson, The Hot Rock, The Way We Were, The Great Gatsby. . .all forgettable and he couldn't act.

R173 is not understanding the movie star concept. Redford was the best looking man on the screen for ten years. He had a look, he had a spontaneity; he was elusive. Didn't matter if he was a one dimensional actor - he was a movie star and a huge box office draw. Five of the movies you listed were big hits. The Way We Were, The Sting and Butch Cassidy were mega hits. "Inspiring" is not a requirement.

R174 How about boring? The Way We Were had no chemistry between the 2 stars and the political arguments were tedious. The Sting boring. Butch Cassidy is 2 frat boys in the old west the love story is between Butch and Sundance not with Katherine Ross, Best Picture winner Out of Africa is 3 hours of life I'll never get back ditto Titanic

R174, to be fair, he didn’t carry those films alone. He starred with Paul Newman, a powerhouse in his own right. And TWWW with Barbra Streisand. He was window dressing.

Redford didn't have enough energy or talent to carry a film

How did a thread about lovely Elizabeth Montgomery become a debate about the cinematic impact of Brad Pitt and Robert Redford?

R176, you may want to start an argument with those who paid him twice as much as Streisand, Dunaway, Sarandon, Fonda, George Segal etc.

I dunno, R178. Most of the time when the topic veers off it becomes a Barbra Streisand thread. Which reminds me, has there been a new Streisand thread this week?

and don't forget those who paid Bruce Willis, Arnold, Vin Diesel, Nick Cage or Channing Tatum the big bucks

R179, why on earth do you think Susan Sarandon deserved equal pay to Redford when they costarred in The Great Waldo Pepper in 1975. Very few people had even heard of Sarandon and Redford was instrumental in several huge blockbusters.

I don't think that, shit for brains, R181. I'm trying to use an example not to be taken literally when it came to Sarandon. You may want to start a fight with the Brad Pitt/Redford hater @ R175, you deserve each other.

R182 Mary! It's only a movie!

R182, you seem needlessly angry. I wish you love.

The last two TV movies she did were quite fun. It seems as though she would have continued to do them as a series of TV movies once a year as she liked the character and they did well in the ratings. I think she was always well loved by the public.

Elizabeth Montgomery had a fling with Russian ballet dancer Alexander Godunov. In an odd twist of fate EM died on same day as AG's body was found, he died five days earlier.

Liz was a real beauty the first couple of seasons of Bewitched. Dick York had a serious crush on her which she found annoying as hell.

As of right now there are 186 replies to this thread. I haven't read them, but I know the answer. She was very limited as an actress.

In Bewitched, she was surrounded by some of the finest character actors whoever lived. And, she was very good with them as a sort of straight man or sounding board. And, she clearly did learn something from them when she played Serena. You could tell she was having fun there, and it was fun to watch.

But yeah, not a huge range at all. I've always thought Meredith Baxter and Liz looked alike. But they also have a kind of similar acting range.

Would Elizabeth Montgomery have excelled as Betty Broderick or was she too "boarding school"?

I'll never understand why she didn't become a big movie star but then that was back in the days when it was hard to make the transition from a highly successful TV show to cinema.

I selected Coming Home. Can't help thinking she would have been great. Ditto An Unmarried Woman. But Jane Fonda and Jill Clayburgh were both terrific in those roles.

The only role listed above that I couldn't see her in was Norma Rae. I know Norma Rae was offered to a slew of actresses who thankfully turned it down because I really don't think they could have pulled it off anywhere near as well as Sally Field. I just cannot imagine Jane Fonda, Jill Clayburgh or Marsha Mason playing Norma Rae. And I couldn't imagine Elizabeth Montgomery as Norma Rae either. The only other actress that could have may have equally Sally was Sissy Spacek but Norma Rae and Sally Field was a match made in heaven.

I remember seeing Elizabeth Montgomery in a 1985 TV movie about a woman who was in a coma for 17 years and suddenly woke up. You'd think there would be a ton for an actress to work with there, but she wasn't very good. Not that the script was, either.

Unfortunately, she became less interesting as she got older. Unlike her co-star Agnes Moorehead, who just became more fabulous until the year she died. Montgomery was quite bland in the '80s. Just didn't do interesting work.

Montgomery v. Moorehead= No comparison. Moorehead was a character actress who started in radio where she had to play everything and did that well, Because she had a face made for radio, she never got femme fatale roles in movies, but she played everything else generally doing it well. Montgomery came up through guest shots on tv but never had to develop a range and certainly didn't do it in her few film roles or on Bewitched. Moorehead was smart with Bewitched, she had a weekly credit but wasn't in every show, so her character was never over-exposed and she had time for other roles. Montgomery was pleasant but never as memorable as Moorehead, Lynde, Marion Lorne, etc. Some of the character roles were poorly written or cast--the 2nd Mrs Kravitz, 2nd Darrin, and Esmerelda, but that was partly the gradual decline of the show. Dick York was a much better actor than Montgomery with a varied resume--he may have been creepy on the set, but he brought out the best in her and , combined with better writing, is one reason why the early seasons hold up better than the later schlock.

[quote]The Way We Were had no chemistry between the 2 stars

Stupid statements like this can only be seen at the DATALOUNGE!

They had chemistry. Like Bette Davis had chemistry with George Brent.

I’ll just leave that there….

Redford didn't really have chemistry with most of his leading ladies, In TWWW he's glib an appears to have majored in hairspray and the sexiest scene is Redford rolling over Streisand in his sleep. He and Streep in Out of Africa go together like noise and a hangover.

Elizabeth Montgomery's thing wasn't being a great actress. It was being stunningly beautiful. When that faded, she really wasn't left with much to offer in terms of being on screen. I'm sure she was a lovely person, though. A great ally to us gays.

For someone you claim was stunningly beautiful, her legacy doesn't centre around that (unlike Audrey, Ava, Elizabeth Taylor etc.). She was cute, spunky, non-intimidating.

But she took risks for television, especially with the movie about rape. It was very bold to do and quite graphic for television.

R195, the sexiest scene is in front of the fireplace, runner up is the school dance.

R197 really? I always found her to be quite a knock out, especially in the black and white episodes. But then, I AM a homosexual.

Could EM have done more film roles? Perhaps. Could she have become a major film star? No, being a leading lady in major films was just beyond her talents.

Again EM got her start and came up through television. Yes, she had some small film roles but that was all, then she landed Bewitched.

If you look at supporting , guests, and other cast of Bewitched you'll find a rather varied lot. Reta Shaw, Julie Newmar, Robert Cummings, Herb Edelman , Richard Dreyfuss, Isabel Sanford, Virginia Gregg, Estelle Winwood, Stuart Margolin, etc... They all had careers that moved about including some pretty good film roles.

After starring in her own major television sitcom for several years it would have been odd for EM to take on supporting roles. But like Dick Van Dyke she could have perhaps done another sitcom (DVD had three), but film just wasn't going to happen.

Starring in a hit television series can a curse or blessing for actors. Some welcome the steady paycheck and won't leave until series is cancelled. Others want to move on for professional reasons including not wanting to be typecast.

After about 7 or 8 years of being "Samantha Stephens" people had seen quite a lot of Elizabeth Montgomery. It would have taken a breakout role like "Beth" in Ordinary People to introduce EM as a major film actress.

Sadly for EM and any other actress Robert Redford wanted and got MTM for role of "Beth".

Hollywood already had Lee Remick. It didn't need Elizabeth Montgomery .

And yet, practically everyone knows her name...Who says shes not a STAR

R203

Thank you!

For my money Lee Remick blows Elizabeth Montgomery out of the water

Yes!

R204

Her peers obviously thought differently. EM was nominated for several Emmy awards, but lost each and every time.

Yes, Elizabeth Montgomery has a huge fan base, but much of that is due to Bewitched. That show put EM on the map so to speak, without it no one would know her at all.

EM's Emmy nominations....

She should have won the Emmy for A Case of Rape. I've watched it on YouTube and she's incredibly naturalistic and unshowy, like many actresses would have been.

Reta Shaw, shame people only knew her largely as playing bossy battle axes.

R193 actually statements regarding the lack of chemistry and believability of the Redford/Streisand chemistry can be found in The NY Times, Esquire, The Village Voice...as critics pointed out that Barbara rarely seems in love with anyone but herself and homely women love the movie because it gives them hope and Redford's role is more like a cameo. And the whole relationship is about as sexy as a mathematical equation.

Reta was in The Ghost and Mr. Chicken.

Wait, Barbara Streisand was in "The Way We Were"? Must have missed something. *LOL*

Yeah baby!

Never has anything looked so good in USN dress whites.

Lovely actress but not a movie star. She had a wonderful career on TV and by all accounts was a good human. She did very well for herself.

R211, you'd do a lot better if you posted LINKS

R213 You missed nothing believe me.

His haircut was so anachronistic in TWWW.

THIS IS IT -

Elizabeth Montgomery played a MOTHER on TV. No one who played a mother on television went on to a career in feature films at the time. It's just too personal, just too motherly.

THREAD CLOSED

First you're another sloe eyed vamp. The someone's mother, then you're camp.

Diane Keaton is about ten or so years younger (at the time) than Elizabeth Montgomery. But the former had the looks and whatever else new Hollywood was looking for when they cast roles.

Could see EM in "Looking For Mr. Goodbar". But then again maybe not.

Leaving aside age difference, just cannot picture someone with EM's looks and bearing roaming around low bars and discos looking for hook-ups.

R195 Though he was very wooden in The Way We Were I do think the film works because he does have chemistry with Babs. He also had great chemistry with Jane Fonda, Debra Winger & Sissy Spacek.

None with Streep.

R222, you thought Redford had chemistry with Debra Winger? Reviews called out their complete lack of chemistry.

with Streisand in TWWW it was schtick vs stick!

Redford didn't have chemistry with Winger because he was WAY TOO OLD for her.

Redford's cool (the only emotion he can do convincingly) only works with some one hot, like Fonda and Streisand. Redford and Faye Dunaway was just too icy. Their love scenes on Three Days of the Condor are laughable.

As an actor, Redford seemed to have lost his way after he became a director in 1980. Before, he had a kind of spontaneity lacking in most actors. After, he just goes about the motions as if the bleach in his hair was enough.

The person with whom Redford had the strongest chemistry was Paul Newman.

But Redford turned down Newman’s request to play opposite him in the gay love story [italic]The Front Runner[/italic]. He also had them tone down his character’s homosexuality in that terrible movie he made with Natalie Wood. Redford has always, and only been concerned with his onscreen heterosexual heartthrob image. And I think that he thinks that he should be lauded for that and that alone. A blond mop of hair can cover a multitude of inabilities…

Redford wasn't considered as Newman's costar in Front Runner. The character, Billy, is a young college student.

I can see Redford and Montgomery starring in that Gable and Lombard biopic. They might have been able to elevate the material. Redford would have insisted on a rewrite of the script and a stronger director.

[quote]The person with whom Redford had the strongest chemistry was Paul Newman.

The person with whom Redford had the strongest chemistry was Dustin Hoffman, contrary to popular myth.

R230, Redford and Hoffman were great together but nothing compared to Redford and Newman in Butch Cassidy. Nothing.

I’m certain that I read that Redford turned Newman down for that film. Doesn’t matter now. He would have ruined the whole thing with his wooden blandness.

R232, it was probably a joke. The novel The Front Runner was published in 1974, when Redford was 38 years old. He'd have been in his 40s by the time the film was made so hardly suitable to play a college track star in his late teens-very early 20s.

No, R233, it's part of the Redford-hating pattern. I'll give them Daisy Clover and his 1960s outrage as a new actor who might be labeled "light in the loafers" when they changed the role in editing, no matter how dumb that may seem today. As far as The Front Runner, Redford was two decades + too old as you pointed out.

In 1922, Joan Crawford registered at Stephens College, in Columbia, Missouri, giving her year of birth as 1906

Maybe Newman wanted to direct Redford in The Front Runner?

R233 he played an over the hill “35 year old” in The Natural when he was pushing 50, so I wouldn’t necessarily dismiss that story.

Redford would be brave enough to play a young faggot.

What’s wrong with just modifying the character by changing the age? It worked for me!

Watch Redford in Barefoot in the Park opposite Jane Fonda. Then watch Richard Thomas opposite Bess Armstrong in the 1981 HBO version. Thomas is SO much better- funnier, more interesting, more charisma. I appreciate what Redford did for indie film in the '90s, but I think as an actor is was a bit of a dud.

R240 watched part of the 1981 HBO version and it seemed stiff and stagey and the players lacked the charm and appeal of Fonda/Redford/Natwick

R241 Wow, I really felt the complete opposite way. The movie version was moribund. The 1981 version felt alive, vibrant and funny.

R242 The line readings in the HBO production seemed flat and perfunctory

R240, you think Richard Thomas is more charismatic than Robert Redford??? I think even Richard Thomas' mother would disagree.

In the 1950s she appeared on her dad's TV show, Robert Montgomery Presents (an anthology series) in a variety of roles, and in a few films like Otto Preminger's The Court Martial Of Billy Mitchell, starring Gary Cooper. I didn't think she was all that great in this stuff. Apparently she came close to getting the Eva Marie Saint part, in On The Wtaerfront. It was between her, Grace Kelly, and Eva. I think she was one of those young actresses who came close to getting several roles that would have led to stardom, but lost them to other actresses.

Later, after Bewitched? Some actors are too associated with one role. And who exactly would be invested in trying to make a 40 year old ex-TV-series star into a movie star? There was no box office demand for her and one would need to be created.

Grace Kelly was not a great actress but seemed to be learning. Eva Marie Saint was great in that role, with probably more subtlety than Montgomery.

Redford played a stuffed shirt in Barefoot in the Park. He did it expertly because he was playing himself!

I was so upset when Liz Montgomery died. I thought that she was one of the best television actresses out there. Her projects, for me, were always something to look forward to. Her, Lindsay Wagner, Jane Seymour and Patty Duke especially, always put out good stuff for television. That was when TV movies were good. Don't know what the fuck all of this Lifetime frauen-in-distress or corny ass Hallmark shit is about. Plus, the acting is subpar

R240 saw Richard Thomas in David Mamet's 'Race' on Broadway maybe 12 years ago and he was fine, but he doesn't really have much presence.