Jazz Jennings' neovagina surgeon admits the trans thing is getting out of hand

[quote] Jazz Jennings' neovagina surgeon admits the trans thing is getting out of hand

[quote] Dr Marci Bowers, top vaginoplasty surgeon

I think it's important to add that Dr. Marci Bowers is also M2F trans.

Yes r1, they are both M2F trans, Bowers and Erica Anderson.

Earlier this month, Anderson told me she submitted a co-authored op-ed to The New York Times warning that many transgender healthcare providers were treating kids recklessly. The Times passed, explaining it was “outside our coverage priorities right now.”

Over the past few weeks, I have spoken at length to both women about the current direction of their field and where they feel it has gone wrong. On some issues, including their stance on puberty blockers, they raised concerns that appear to question the current health guidelines set by WPATH — which Bowers is slated to lead starting in 2022.

WPATH, for instance, recommends that for many gender dysphoric and gender non-conforming kids, hormonal puberty suppression begin at the early stages of puberty. WPATH has also insisted since 2012 that puberty blockers are “fully reversible interventions.”

When I asked Anderson if she believes that psychological effects of puberty blockers are reversible, she said: “I’m not sure.” When asked whether children in the early stages of puberty should be put on blockers, Bowers said: “I’m not a fan.”

When I asked Bowers if she still thought puberty blockers were a good idea, from a surgical perspective, she said: “This is typical of medicine. We zig and then we zag, and I think maybe we zigged a little too far to the left in some cases.” She added “I think there was naivete on the part of pediatric endocrinologists who were proponents of early [puberty] blockade thinking that just this magic can happen, that surgeons can do anything.”

I asked Bowers whether she believed WPATH had been welcoming to a wide variety of doctors’ viewpoints — including those concerned about risks, skeptical of puberty blockers, and maybe even critical of some of the surgical procedures?

“There are definitely people who are trying to keep out anyone who doesn’t absolutely buy the party line that everything should be affirming, and that there’s no room for dissent,” Bowers said. “I think that’s a mistake.”

Bowers is not only among the most respected gender surgeons in the world but easily one of the most prolific: she has built or repaired more than 2,000 vaginas, the procedure known as vaginoplasty. She rose to celebrity status appearing on the hit reality-television show “I Am Jazz,” which catalogues and choreographs the life of Jazz Jennings, arguably the country’s most famous transgender teen.

In January 2019, Jeanette Jennings threw her famous daughter a “Farewell to Penis” party. Over a million viewers looked in on guests feasting on meatballs and miniature wieners in the Jennings’ Mediterranean-style Florida home. Family and friends cheered as Jazz sliced into a penis-shaped cake. The rather complicated upcoming procedure came to seem as little more than a Sweet Sixteen.

By that point, Jazz was already Time magazine’s top 25 most influential teen, the co-author of a bestselling children’s book and the inspiration for a plastic doll. She had served as youth ambassador to the Human Rights Campaign, and she had about one million Instagram followers. Hers was no longer just a personal story but an advertisement for a lifestyle and an industry.

On the day of the procedure — dutifully recorded for Instagram — Jazz’s sister, Ari, teasingly wiggled a sausage in front of the camera. As Jazz was about to be wheeled into the operating room, she snapped her fingers and said, “Let’s do this!”

The vaginoplasty she underwent is what surgeons call a “penile inversion,” in which surgeons use the tissue from the penis and testicles to create a vaginal cavity and clitoris. With grown men, a penile inversion was eminently doable. With Jazz, it was much more difficult.

Like thousands of adolescents in America treated for gender dysphoria (severe discomfort in one’s biological sex), Jazz had been put on puberty blockers. In Jazz’s case, they began at age 11. So at age 17, Jazz’s penis was the size and sexual maturity of an 11-year-old’s. As Bowers explained to Jazz and her family ahead of the surgery, Jazz didn’t have enough penile and scrotal skin to work with. So Bowers took a swatch of Jazz’s stomach lining to complement the available tissue.

At first, Jazz’s surgery seemed to have gone fine, but soon after she said experienced “crazy pain.” She was rushed back to the hospital, where Dr. Jess Ting was waiting. “As I was getting her on the bed, I heard something go pop,” Ting said in an episode of “I Am Jazz.” Jazz’s new vagina — or neovagina, as surgeons say — had split apart.

Gender dysphoria, which Jazz had suffered from since age two, is very real, and by all accounts, excruciating. For the nearly 100-year diagnostic history of gender dysphoria, it overwhelmingly afflicted boys and men, and it began in early childhood (ages two to four). According to the DSM-V, the latest edition of the historical rate of incidence was .01 percent of males (roughly one in 10,000).

For decades, psychologists treated it with “watchful waiting” — that is, a method of psychotherapy that seeks to understand the source of a child’s gender dysphoria, lessen its intensity, and ultimately help a child grow more comfortable in her own body.

Since nearly seven in 10 children initially diagnosed with gender dysphoria eventually outgrew it — many go on to be lesbian or gay adults — the conventional wisdom held that, with a little patience, most kids would come to accept their bodies. The underlying assumption was children didn’t always know best.

But in the last decade, watchful waiting has been supplanted by “affirmative care,” which assumes children do know what’s best. Affirmative care proponents urge doctors to corroborate their patients’ belief that they are trapped in the wrong body. The family is pressured to help the child transition to a new gender identity — sometimes having been told by doctors or activists that, if they don’t, their child may eventually commit suicide. From there, pressures build on parents to begin concrete medical steps to help children on their path to transitioning to the “right” body. That includes puberty blockers as a preliminary step. Typically, cross-sex hormones follow and then, if desired, gender surgery.

The widespread use of puberty blockers can be traced to the Netherlands. In the mid-1990s, Peggy Cohen-Kettenis, a psychologist in Amsterdam who had studied young people with gender dysphoria, helped raise awareness about the potential benefits of blockers — formerly used in the chemical castration of violent rapists. Pharmaceutical companies were happy to fund studies on the application of blockers in children, and, gradually, what’s called the Dutch Protocol was born. The thinking behind the protocol was: Why make a child who has suffered with gender dysphoria since preschool endure puberty, with all its discomforts and embarrassments, if that child were likely to transition as a young adult? Researchers believed blockers’ effects were reversible — just in case the child did not ultimately transition.

Cohen-Kettenis later grew doubtful about that initial assessment. “It is not clear yet how pubertal suppression will influence brain development,” she wrote in the European Journal of Endocrinology in 2006. Puberty is not merely a biochemical development; it is also “a psycho-social event that occurs in concert with one’s peers,” Doctor William Malone, an endocrinologist and member of the Society for Evidence Based Gender Medicine, told me. Hormones do not merely stimulate sex organs during puberty; they also shower the brain.

But at the very moment when Dutch researchers were beginning to raise concerns about puberty blockers, American health providers discovered it. In 2007, the Dutch Protocol arrived at Boston Children’s Hospital, one of the preeminent children’s hospitals in the nation. It would soon become the leading course of treatment for all transgender-identified children and adolescents in the United States. One of them was Jazz Jennings.

In 2012, a surgeon implanted a puberty blocker called Supprelin in Jazz’s upper arm to delay the onset of facial hair and the deepening of her voice, among other things. Without these conventional masculine features, it would be easier, down the road, for doctors to make her look more feminine — more like the budding young woman she felt she was deep inside.

At the time, doctors knew less than they do now about the effects of puberty blockers. “When you enter a field like this where there’s not a lot of published data, not a lot of studies, the field is in its infancy, you see people sometimes selling protocols like puberty blockers in a dogmatic fashion, like, ‘This is just what we do,’” Bowers told me.

Once an adolescent has halted normal puberty and adopted an opposite-sex name, Bowers said: “You’re going to go socially to school as a girl, and you’ve made this commitment. How do you back out of that?”

Another problem created by puberty blockade — experts prefer “blockade” to “blockage” — was lack of tissue, which Dutch researchers noted back in 2008. At that time, Cohen-Kettenis and other researchers noted that, in natal males, early blockade might lead to “non-normal pubertal phallic growth,” meaning that “the genital tissue available for vaginoplasty might be less than optimal.”

But that hair-raising warning seems to have been lost in the trip across the Atlantic.

Many American gender surgeons augment the tissue for constructing neovaginas with borrowed stomach lining and even a swatch of bowel. Bowers draws the line at the colon. “I never use the colon,” she said. “It’s the last resort. You can get colon cancer. If it’s used sexually, you can get this chronic colitis that has to be treated over time. And it’s just in the discharge and the nasty appearance and it doesn’t smell like vagina.”

The problem for kids whose puberty has been blocked early isn’t just a lack of tissue but of sexual development. Puberty not only stimulates growth of sex organs. It also endows them with erotic potential. “If you’ve never had an orgasm pre-surgery, and then your puberty's blocked, it's very difficult to achieve that afterwards,” Bowers said. “I consider that a big problem, actually. It's kind of an overlooked problem that in our ‘informed consent’ of children undergoing puberty blockers, we’ve in some respects overlooked that a little bit.”

Nor is this a problem that can be corrected surgically. Bowers can build a labia, a vaginal canal and a clitoris, and the results look impressive. But, she said, if the kids are “orgasmically naive” because of puberty blockade, “the clitoris down there might as well be a fingertip and brings them no particular joy and, therefore, they’re not able to be responsive as a lover. And so how does that affect their long-term happiness?”

Few, if any, other doctors acknowledge as much. The Mayo Clinic, for instance, does not note that permanent sexual dysfunction may be among puberty blockers’ risks. St. Louis Children’s Hospital doesn’t mention it, either. Oregon Health & Science University Children’s Hospital and University of California at San Francisco don’t. Nor was there any mention of sexual dysfunction in a recent New York Times story, “What Are Puberty Blockers?”

Jack Turban, the chief fellow in child and adolescent psychiatry at Stanford University School of Medicine, wrote, in 2018: “The only significant side effect is that the adolescent may fall behind on bone density.”

I don't know anything about trans issues, but I do know I'm not going to believe anything right-wing hack Bari Weiss is involved with. Bringing her Substack over here? Nice try, OP.

This is all known.

But lack of bone density is often just the start of the problem. Patients who take puberty blockers almost invariably wind up taking cross-sex hormones — and this combination tends to leave patients infertile and, as Bowers made clear, sexually dysfunctional.

On an episode of “I Am Jazz,” Jazz revealed that she had never experienced an orgasm and may never be able to. But she remains optimistic. “I know that once I fall in love and I really admire another individual that I’m going to want to have sex with them,” Jazz said at 16, in an episode that aired in July of 2017.

In the year after her operation, Jazz would require three more surgeries, and then defer Harvard College for a year to deal with her depression. In 2021, she opened up about a binge-eating disorder that caused her to gain nearly 100 pounds in under two years.

Jazz has insisted she has “no regrets” about her transition. (I reached out to Jazz for an interview and never heard back). But subjecting patients to a course of serious interventions that cannot be scrutinized — even by experts — without one risking being tarred as anti-trans seems unlikely to be in anyone’s best interest.

Bowers told me she now finds early puberty blockade inadvisable. “I’m not a fan of blockade at Tanner Two anymore, I really am not,” she told me, using the clinical name of the moment when the first visible signs of puberty manifest. “The idea all sounded good in the very beginning,” she said. “Believe me, we’re doing some magnificent surgeries on these kids, and they’re so determined, and I’m so proud of so many of them and their parents. They’ve been great. But honestly, I can’t sit here and tell you that they have better — or even as good — results. They’re not as functional. I worry about their reproductive rights later. I worry about their sexual health later and ability to find intimacy.”

Bowers knows what the loss of fertility and sexual intimacy might entail: She has three children, all born before she transitioned, and she spent a decade tending to victims of female genital mutilation. “Those women, a lot of them experience broken relationships because they cannot respond sexually,” she said. “And my fear about these young children who never experience orgasm prior to undergoing surgery are going to reach adulthood and try to find intimacy and realize they don’t know how to respond sexually.”

In 2007, the year the U.S. began implementing the Dutch Protocol, the U.S. had one pediatric gender clinic, and it overwhelmingly served patients like Jazz: natal males who expressed discomfort in their bodies in the earliest stages of childhood. (At age 2, Jazz reportedly asked Jeanette when the good fairy would turn him into a girl. Jazz’s own social transition did not appear to proceed from peer influence and predated social media.)

Today, the U.S. has hundreds of gender clinics. Most patients are not natal males, like Jazz, but teenage girls. I wrote a book about these girls, “Irreversible Damage,” which was based on interviews with them and their families. Peer influence and exposure to trans influencers on social media play an outsized role in their desire to escape womanhood. Unlike the patients of the Dutch Protocol, who were screened for other mental health comorbidities, these young women almost always suffer from severe anxiety and depression or other significant mental health problems — and those problems are often overlooked or ignored.

When public health researcher and former Brown University Professor Lisa Littman dubbed this phenomenon “rapid onset gender dysphoria” in 2018, the university apologized for her paper and ultimately pushed her out. Activists called the hypothesis of a social contagion among teen girls a “poisonous lie used to discredit trans people.”

If one didn't have to know a lot of math and science to become a doctor, I think I'd be a pretty good plastic surgeon. I have mad artistic talent and I know what makes people look good. Just saying.

But Littman’s research about the sudden spike in teen girl trans-identification has become increasingly difficult to deny: A recent survey by the American College Health Association showed that, in 2008, one in 2,000 female undergraduates identified as transgender. By 2021, that figure had jumped to one in 20.

While both Anderson and Bowers pointed out that “ROGD” has yet to be accepted as a diagnosis, Anderson said: “At our clinic at UCSF, for two years now running, we’re running two to one natal females to natal males.” Two to one.

“As for this ROGD thing,” Bowers said, “I think there probably are people who are influenced. There is a little bit of ‘Yeah, that’s so cool. Yeah, I kind of want to do that too.’”

Anderson agreed that we’re likely to see more regret among this teenage-girl population. “It is my considered opinion that due to some of the — let’s see, how to say it? what word to choose? — due to some of the, I’ll call it just ‘sloppy,’ sloppy healthcare work, that we’re going to have more young adults who will regret having gone through this process. And that is going to earn me a lot of criticism from some colleagues, but given what I see — and I’m sorry, but it’s my actual experience as a psychologist treating gender variant youth — I’m worried that decisions will be made that will later be regretted by those making them.”

What, exactly, was sloppy about the healthcare work? “Rushing people through the medicalization, as you and others have cautioned, and failure — abject failure — to evaluate the mental health of someone historically in current time, and to prepare them for making such a life-changing decision,” Anderson said.

I asked Bowers about the rise of detransitioners, young women who have come to regret transitioning. Many said they were given a course of testosterone on their first visit to a clinic like Planned Parenthood. “​When you have a female-assigned person and she’s feeling dysphoric, or somebody decides that she’s dysphoric and says your eating disorders are not really eating disorders, this is actually gender dysphoria, and then they see you for one visit, and then they recommend testosterone — red flag!” Bowers said. “Wake up here.”

Abigail Shrier is the author of “Irreversible Damage,” which the Economist named one of the best books of 2020. Read more of her work at her newsletter, The Truth Fairy.

Speaking of Jazz Jennings, what is she up to on her social media? I recall a thread here earlier this summer about a post she made dancing like a teletubbie in salute to them and remarks here about overweight she is.

Fuck these crooks who are trying to cover their asses. Affirming transgenderism on prepubescent children should've never been allowed. Boys and girls start of physically identical until maturation of sexual organs after puberty. Not to mention they don't have the full mental capacity to make life/body altering changes like hormone blockers and surgery. Any one who promoted this shit that potentially destroyed the lives of these children deserve to be sued into bankruptcy!

Wow. When these doctors (yes, I know they’re trans themselves) are saying this…

It makes my heart hurt, knowing that kids are being permanently damaged.

I hope every single doctor who pushed kids into puberty blockers and surgery is sued into oblivion.

Bowers is arguing that the penis ought to allowed to grow to a mature size so the vaginaplasty can be done successfully.

The most disturbing thing I’ve read on the subject: [quote] Bowers draws the line at the colon. “I never use the colon,” she said. “It’s the last resort. You can get colon cancer. If it’s used sexually, you can get this chronic colitis that has to be treated over time. And it’s just in the discharge and the nasty appearance and it doesn’t smell like vagina.”

😳

Ban it all.

The usual transtapo "right-wing" smear against any criticism of the transcult at r6.

First, I posted this here because someone in another thread requested it. Second, you don't get to decide what we can post, so fuck you.

Third, the article is an interview with Marci Bowers and Erica Anderson, two M2F trans who work in the gender reassignment industry, Bowers as a surgeon and Anderson as a clinical psychologist. Bowers operated on Jazz Jennings. These are their words. They are concerned that too many children are being transitioned when they shouldn't be and believe there should be more oversight of what's going on.

Me too, R14. Licenses revoked.

Tony/r15, I recoiled when I read that. Is this the same doctor who worked with FGM victims? I find it really creepy how INTO vaginas this person is.

Licenses revoked and heads must roll.

Bari Weiss is not right-wing. But what exactly in the piece, which is an interview with two M2F trans gender clinicians, are you taking issue with, R6?

I was wondering what the transtapo was going to come up with since this is from the mouths of two MtT doctors. And then came R6. So, sticking fingers in ears and saying "I can't hear you" it is! Fucking sick, ignorant, childish morons, all of them.

I love that they are echoing exactly what JK Rowling was saying. Cherry on top. Peak Trans has arrived.

[quote] Tony/R15, I recoiled when I read that. Is this the same doctor who worked with FGM victims? I find it really creepy how INTO vaginas this person is.

Yikes, R15!! TMI! TMI! lol

Anywho R19, Dr. Marci is M2F trans.

I actually respect her opinion, because she has been doing this for a very long time. And she's very serious about it, and very professional.

Dr. Marci had her own television show for a while, and I learned a lot from it. And she won't just do these surgeries "willy nilly." You have to pass through many stages, before she approves you for surgery.

R23 Respect him? He is mutilating children you foul cunt.

Bari Weiss is a false liberal. She readily admits it. She does not support proof of vaccine efforts, nor vaccine mandates. Remember when the NY Times fired her and only then did she accuse them of a hostile workplace?

She reads like an angry lesbian with low self esteem.

That's hilarious, R15! Among the reasons Bowers won't use colon in development of pseudo-vaginas is because they don't smell like vaginas?

And of course, the inverted penis model smells perfectly correct....

[quote]Gender dysphoria, which Jazz had suffered from since age two...

How do people get away with saying such bullshit?

R27, I like the way the writer is clear that it wasn’t social media or peer influence.

Just his mother.

Is gender dysphoria another way of saying autism spectrum disorder? Are these kids just homophobic and autism -phobic?

R29 interesting that you ask because I've read there's a strong correlation between the two conditions. Very high rates of autism amongst young transgenders.

Bowers is no different than all of the ex Trump staffers who have now written books saying how horrible he was .

I watched jazz. I watched Bowers tell jazz to lose 30 lb, and when she lost 10 lbs was ready to move forward. She also knew jazz had a binging disorder. Finally, they pushed having the surgery as quickly as possible including not requiring jazz go to psychological counseling. That were salivated at her case being so challenging.

I hope it stops Bowers from ignoring all of those signs in the future.

Many children, especially white, have some kind of mental disorder these days whether it's autism, ADHD, gender dysphoria, etc. I think a lot of it has to do with overbearing moms and the younger parents want to show off their special children and how their good supportive parents on social media. It's a lot of Munchausen by proxy if you ask me.

Wow r25, that makes mangling up little kids bodies all the more justified! This article isn't even by Bari Weiss and it's an interview with two M2F gender dysphoria industry experts, one of them Jazz Jennings' neovagina surgeon.

Wow R33. Did you bother to read the URL?

Wow, R34, are you aware that Bari Weiss didn’t write ONE WORD of the article?

Wow r34. Did you bother to read the article? I guess not, because, if you had, once you'd finished it and got to the bottom, you would have read:

[quote]Abigail Shrier is the author of “Irreversible Damage,” which the Economist named one of the best books of 2020. Read more of her work at her newsletter, The Truth Fairy.

And so what if Bari Weiss had written it (which she didn't)? You really think just by throwing out "right wing" or "false liberal" that's somehow going to validate all the trans arguments and make it ok that this stuff is being done to kids? And in our name as the forgotten LGB in LGBT?

I never believe the sincerity of people who want to get rid of trans medicine in the name of "helping" trans kids. If they gave a shit about trans kids then they would have had an opinion on puberty-blockers five to ten years ago, this shit has been around forever. They're just jumping on the right-wing bandwagon. Puberty-blockers are the new "men pretending to be trans to sneak into the ladies restroom". It's just an excuse to hurt trans people.

I don’t have a dog in this fight but doesn’t publishing an article in her substack a pretty explicit endorsement of the article? Sure, it was written by someone else but Weiss is the publisher.

OP is a ravaged pseudo-cunt with the stinking balls still hanging behind it.

No surgery until 35 please. It takes that long to figure out your sexuality or gender issues.

If you can't run for president, you can't have a sex change.

[quote] It's just an excuse to hurt trans people.

HOW does this “hurt trans people”?!

thanks for posting, OP. i'm assuming this will be largely ignored by most people

Fascinating article, OP -- thanks for posting it.

They know it's falling down and this is their genteel attempt to flee the village before the dogs are set upon them in the form of lawsuits. Fucking hypocrites. Poor Jazz never stood a chance.

Bowers and Anderson are committing literal violence against trans people with these opinions, or...er...something.

This shit was not around to the degree it is today 5-10 years ago.

We've discussed the autism trans connection before. It's because both groups have trouble with abstract thinking. As in: Boys like blue. I like blue. Therefore I am a boy.

But it could be: Boys like blue. I like blue, but I am a girl. So clearly, some girls like blue.

I like blue.

R44 That is exactly how I read the response, trying to save face before the bomb explodes.

This is only anecdotal, so take it however. I know a few teenage kids who identify as “trans”. They are all white, wealthy and exceptional intelligence, also have artistic talent. They have problems with authority/oppositional disorder. They have blonde hyper-ambitious mothers who barely conceal their aggression and are highly strung. Fathers are distant or neutered.

I don’t know any small kids who are supposedly trans, just teens. It seems to be a power struggle against their mothers and extreme self-loathing. The boy I know has a mother who is not homophobic; she does

Wow. This thread was started more than two hours ago and it hasn't been grayed out by the transtapo yet.

Maybe they're too busy trying to get logged into their Facebook accounts.

[quote] Anderson told me she submitted a co-authored op-ed to The New York Times warning that many transgender healthcare providers were treating kids recklessly. The Times passed, explaining it was “outside our coverage priorities right now.”

This is appalling. I guess The Times’ priorities are continuing to cheerlead the mutilation of children.

R52 That would be The Guardian. And most Western media.

WTF with all those long posts. I don't want to read your fucking novel...

R6, Maybe you need to re-read it? This conversation was supposed to be in the NYT and they backed out.

If "mainstream media" won't discuss these topics, please provide who else is acceptable to publish it? These conversations are verboten through normal channels.

R27 I thought it was agreed that gender dysphoria is real. I agree that SRS shouldn’t be the cure all and that consistent therapy with a psychologist is needed.

It issue is now that TRAs and twitter fingers say that gender dysphoria isn’t real and trans can be trans on/off any given day and that it’s a free for all and everyone should indulge in their bullshit

Yesterday's tranny hero; today's tranny heretic.

"Actively trying to harm trans kids"

R56 Real? Where did you read that? With evidence.

Duh. “Trans” isn’t any realer than whatever Rachel Dolezal was doing. You are not born into the wrong body. There is ZERO science to back up this bullshit.

OP spends all of her time posting online about tans people. GET A LIFE.

But, r60, I thought we were supposed to be "centering trans people" in discussions!

Did OP do it wrong?

Even if it is to save their own skins, it's good to hear some prominent voices speak up.

Change won't be allowed to come from the outside, they've made that very clear.

I always thought Dr. Bowers looked like a lost triplet to the Hensel twins.

Gay men will ultimately pay the price for the inevitable backlash. Because, despite the ever-expanding “queer community”, when people come across this term, they primarily think of gay men.

Is it the trans agenda to ignore all these red flags?

Another problem are the mentally ill manless mothers who want to turn their sons into girls so they can be "famous" on Social Media.

This is damage control by Bowers. He said NOTHING about the dangers of puberty blockers for years. Now, that the science is becoming too clear to deny, and public opinion is turning (not even turning as much as tuning in) he is trying to get ahead of the story.

And this ides that the science just “zigged” a little too far is a cute way of saying that you experimented on children with no regards to their well being.

R25 Not supporting vaccine mandates doesn’t make you a liberal. It makes you not a fascist. There is nothing liberal about forcing people to give up body autonomy.

The tide is finally turning, as we all knew it had to eventually because science and facts are persistent things that can only be suppressed for so long.

Also, Jazz getting fat is one of the most predictable complications of becoming a eunuch.

So in order to have successful neovagina construction a man must have a fully developed penis and testicles.

Yet in order to have more "passable" transition puberty blockers must be taken as a young teen which disrupt the development of the genitalia.

A trans catch 22.

R37, people have been condemning the use of puberty blockers for a long time, but any voices pointing out the problems with puberty blockers have been attacked, silenced and cancelled. It has been practically impossible to get attention paid to this issue. Even people who worked in child gender services who tried to speak out against some of the things they saw going on got backlash from their employers - just look at what has been going on at the Tavistock clinic in London. Look up Sonia Appleby and David Bell, who worked at the Tavistock.

Abigail Shrier, who conducted the interviews with Bowers and Anderson and wrote this article, published a book in 2020 called "Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters", with the usual attempts at intimidation of her, trying to get her cancelled, the usual cries of "right wing!".

Look at what happened to Lisa Littman, who was absolutely mauled when she tried to initiate research into Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria in 2018 and stabbed in the back by her university.

What got the tide turning was Keira Bell's legal success at the beginning of 2021 against the Tavistock Clinic for putting her on puberty blockers when she was too young to give informed consent.

Let's not forget the deranged mob attacks on JK Rowling when she tweeted about the treatment of teens. So, go fuck yourself r37, and men shouldn't be in the women's restroom anyway. We don't need a reason to keep women's restrooms single-sex spaces.

R50, for teens today saying they're trans is just the new teenage rebellion. They will grow out of it, as long as they are not physically damaged first.

Jazz Jennings is the Frankenstein created by his parents and medical quacks. In doing so, they have destroyed that poor boy's life.

That Tavistock building looks condemned.

I am so hopeful that we've really reached peak trans, and society will pull back from the brink of insanity it's been teetering on for the past couple of years. So, so hopeful.

[quote]Bowers draws the line at the colon. “I never use the colon,” she said. “It’s the last resort. You can get colon cancer. If it’s used sexually, you can get this chronic colitis that has to be treated over time. And it’s just in the discharge and the nasty appearance and it doesn’t smell like vagina.”

Sure, but when we said it, we were transphobic and literally causing trans suicides instead of creating trans joy. 🙄

More from Keira Bell -- definitely worth reading if you haven't read about her already.

Bell didn't "transition" to anything. She is a female who medically and chemically mutilated herself to replicate socially-dictated male stereotypes.

What’s the difference R80?

R80 it's the same fucking thing. And she was encouraged to do it by the clinic and the doctors at the clinic.

Nice try at the "No TRUE Scotsman" fallacy, though.

Quotes from Bell's article at r79.

Keira Bell: My Story

As a teen, she transitioned to male but came to regret it. Here’s how it felt to enter history in the trans debate.

By Keira Bell

From the earliest days, my home life was unhappy. [...] I was a classic tomboy... Early in childhood, I was accepted by the boys—I dressed in typically boy clothing and was athletic. [...] Then puberty hit, and everything changed for the worse. A lot of teenagers, especially girls, have a hard time with puberty, but I didn’t know this. [...] By the time I was 14, I was severely depressed and had given up: I stopped going to school; I stopped going outside. I just stayed in my room, avoiding my mother, playing video games, getting lost in my favorite music, and surfing the internet.

Something else was happening: I became attracted to girls. I had never had a positive association with the term “lesbian” or the idea that two girls could be in a relationship. This made me wonder if there was something inherently wrong with me. Around this time, out of the blue, my mother asked if I wanted to be a boy, something that hadn’t even crossed my mind. I then found some websites about females transitioning to male. Shortly after, I moved in with my father and his then-partner. She asked me the same question my mother had. I told her that I thought I was a boy and that I wanted to become one. [....]

So, a budding teenage lesbian fell for this Trans mutilation propaganda, rather than being encouraged to explore and accept her own sexuality. Clearly, besides being incredibly misogynistic, the Trans movement absolutely is an attack on Gays and Lesbians!

Ban the Trans in childhood and adolescence!

Ban the Trans from women's spaces!

"Put it back!"

Gia Love

[quote]"I thought existing in this world as I do today was impossible and magic was something that would have made it possible,” she says. “It was a dream I was taught to hate at times, to view as something that would lead me down a path of destruction. But this path that I’ve carved for myself has allowed me to be seen and connect with people all over the world.”

Keira's story already makes my heart hurt, but now even moreso knowing that she was raised by an alcoholic mother who was also the first to plant the idea that she 'might be a boy'.

Painful periods must be awful to deal with, but is it really a better option to trade that in for vaginal atrophy?

Cool, R85. Gia Love sounds like the kind of gay male who truly experiences excruciating body dysmorphia and found it necessary and liberating to live as a woman, as best he can. What does that have to do with the topic of this thread?

"Sportswoman of the Year" in New Zealand.

[quote]Olympic weightlifter Laurel Hubbard was named “sportswoman of the year” at the prestigious 113-year-old University of Otago and OUSA Blues and Golds Awards event this past week.

Who is this Jizz Jannings of whom you speak?

TRANS RAGE speaks!

[quote]By providing any form of an interview, let alone one that gives Shrier so much room for rhetorical reframing, Marci Bowers has [bold]broadly endangered the trans community, especially trans youth[/bold].

The next trans hooker who gets shot to death will be Marci Bowers' fault!

[quote]Philadelphia unveiled its first mural celebrating transgender and gender-nonconforming people last week.

[quote]The mural, “We Are Universal,” was created by the artist Kah Yangni in collaboration with the residents of Morris Home, the only residential recovery program in the country that offers services specifically for trans people, according to its website.

R87 it's the trans activist troll who hates these threads and tries to shut them down. Its latest tactic is posting random "feel-good" trans-related stories, and for some reason, bible verses (likely because it thinks we are some stereotype religious right-wingers, that seems to be one of the ad hominem attacks it has tried). It knows it can't argue anything logically because the logic behind this is very weak and it's not very intelligent anyway.

Best to F&F and block.

R91 If you really cared about gender-nonconforming kids? You wouldn’t endorse radical treatments that result in the sterilization and mutilation of their healthy bodies. Adults who tell children that their bodies are “wrong” or “bad” deserve to be kicked to death.

R68 your brand of body autonomy negatively impacts the well being of bodies outside your own. How do you suppose those negative outcomes should be litigated?

In a decade big pharma and the trans enabling doctors will be brought to their knees by countless lawsuits from disillusioned young adults who will never have normal lives.

Jazz is a tragedy, this poor boy was gay but his parents couldn’t live with a femme boy, so they allowed him to think he was in the wrong body from an early age.

Jazz will never experience true sexual satisfaction and will never reciprocate intimacy as he should with another. His relationships will always be unfulfilled.

He will be dead in 10 years tops, this is a very mentally unstable individual who is only just begun to realize that a Frankenhole will not magically make you a happy girl, this is real life and not a fairy tale like Pinocchio.

The clit formed by bottom surgery has as much sensitivity as a finger, says Dr Bowers, when transition surgery is performed on a patient who has not undergone puberty—consequently the patient will likely never be able to orgasm.

The article also points out that the above fact is omitted from most trans surgeons' websites. Kind of an important fact to mention for a patient considering puberty-blocking hormones and eventual bottom surgery, I'd imagine.

Dr Bowers said that? The same dr Bowers who told Jazz to masturbate to learn how to orgasm before the surgery so poor Jazz would experience normal sexual pleasure after the surgery? (not verbatim).

[quote]Puberty not only stimulates growth of sex organs. It also endows them with erotic potential. “If you’ve never had an orgasm pre-surgery, and then your puberty's blocked, it's very difficult to achieve that afterwards,” Bowers said. “I consider that a big problem, actually. It's kind of an overlooked problem that in our ‘informed consent’ of children undergoing puberty blockers, we’ve in some respects overlooked that a little bit.”

Never having followed the I Am Jazz reality series, I was unaware what Jazz & family had or had not been told pre-surgery. But people have been raising the alarm (or trying to) about puberty blockers for years.

^^^in reply to r97 rescue-chick

The Jennings mother is quite insane. This family has been a slow-moving car wreck with very tragic results. I can't even think about how sad this nonsense all is.

Here's a Jazz reverse cowboy experience. An F2M has some oopsies with her hysterectomy - which you have to get before fake dick surgery.

It is called Transmasc Bottom Surgeon Botches Hysterectomy

So many of these have complications which require more surgeries to repair the shit gone wrong. The wasted medical and surgical resources is amazing and during a pandemic no less.

R101 the thing is, trans activists were screaming during the pandemic because they couldn't get their gender change surgeries. They were actually comparing a person needing a cancerous tumor removed to getting their faces feminized or their tits lopped off. Of course they were saying that it was a matter of LIFE or DEATH!

Curious how many actually killed themselves as a result of having to delay their elective surgeries. I'm guessing none.

It’s literally (and I mean literally) tragic to see Jazz as a eunuch replacing sexual pleasure with queso in a crockpot.

[quote]What’s the difference R80?

[quote]it's the same fucking thing.

R81 R82 The difference is a woman pretending to be a man via medical/chemical mutilation and a man. No "transition" is involved as the woman remains a woman.

[quote] Dr Bowers said that? The same dr Bowers who told Jazz to masturbate to learn how to orgasm before the surgery so poor Jazz would experience normal sexual pleasure after the surgery? (not verbatim).

Not to be controversial but as uncomfortable as it is for ANY teen to discuss their sexual habits with a medical health provider, this is a rare bit of sensible and necessary advice from Bowers. If Jazz (or any other) trans kid had a reasonable idea of their sexuality in terms of physical/orgasmic terms (I don’t know about them, but I was masturbating by the time I was 12) they would have at least SOME idea of the stakes of losing or altering the ability to feel sexual pleasure, which are a very real consequence of genital surgery. And as adults know, the sensory part of sexual feeling is one of the major emotional motivators throughout the adult lives for the vast majority of adults.

By the time Bowers advised masturbation, Jazz had already been effectively neutered by the puberty blockers. He clearly stated on the show that he has never felt a sexual urge in his life.

^^That’s crazy. Me and my next door neighbors got thoroughly aroused and erect and humped each other from the time we were like 5 years-old.

This is just for fun cause I can't help watching car crashes.

[quote]It’s literally (and I mean literally) tragic to see Jazz as a eunuch replacing sexual pleasure with queso in a crockpot.

That's really crude.

What's between Jazz's legs is more akin to Beefaroni in an old catcher's mitt.

Carrie Johnson stepping forward.

What stupid parents let these hacks destroy their kid's body?

Kids should be allowed to socially transition if they please. But medical interventions? No fucking way. They can make those decisions when they're older.

In 5 or 10 years, we are going to have a huge reckoning when these sterile adults ask why the fuck we allowed them to do this.

They can take it up with their parents and their quack doctors. I'm not responsible for this.

[quote] Kids should be allowed to socially transition if they please.

At what age though? And what does that mean? When a 2 or 3 or 4 year old boy tells its parent it's a girl the parent can simply say, No darling you're a boy. Or That's nice and then move on. That is what a sane parent does. Because that is reality and anything else is a psychological issue that the child is too young to understand.

Kids at that age have no idea what that even means. Let them play with what they want, let them dress how they want - to a degree, of course.

.,.,

r111 White middle class parents who can easily be guilt into believing that chemical castration will somewhat make their children "happier" #transjoy

R104 actually it's considered a transition merely by then speaking the words. It happens, magically, in that moment, and they also not only then become trans, they also become trans their entire lives up to that point, and were always a woman or man (whatever the opposite they are going for). Unless of course they're proven to be a sex offender / autogynephile later, then they are "fake" trans or possibly never existed at all.

R111 I really like those womans videos and damn is she brave, but also, damn is she ugly.

R110 I doubt very much anyone cares what the mistress thinks. She didn't get that position with her brains.

What Carrie thinks and says at the Tory party conference r119 is Tory party and hence government policy, and it ain't looking good for the trannies anymore. You overplayed your hand and have turned everyone against you.

R120 wow, so you apparently didn't even read the headline or the text of the post in r110 that the mistress is currently trying to get the Tories to back trans activist policies, and then somehow assumed she was doing the opposite and I was panning her for that, and then attacked me over this total misunderstanding, entirely on your part, where you completely failed at multiple points to comprehend what the discussion was about.

I think you've had enough Internet for the day.

[quote]Carrie Johnson has urged Conservatives to fight for the rights of transgender people, throwing her support behind a cause that has begun to increasingly divide the party.

[quote]In her sole public appearance at Tory conference, the prime minister’s wife, who works as an environmental campaigner, said it was a “fact of life” that LGBT+ people experienced hate crimes due to their gender identity and sexuality.

[quote]She said there was “still a long way to go” to tackle the significant discrimination and stigma they faced.

Still think she's making Tory policy?

By the way, here's the OP article.

Everyone please note you have to post the OP article also in R1 in threads like these that will get greyed out as soon as the activists see it.

Also note the mistress was promoting "LGBT" rights, but the Guardian focuses exclusively on the trans angle and ignores the part about the gays.

And buried deep in the Guardian article an Aha! moment of reality

[quote] Johnson's appearance at the event, organised by Stonewall, was significant given the equalities minister, Liz Truss, has urged government departments to quit the charity’s Diversity Champions programme.

So the question must be asked: is Carrie a paid consultant for Mermaids?

^^^ meant Stonewall, not Mermaids. But hey at this point pretty much the same thing.

Even worse now that I think about it. Stonewall is getting the wife of the PM to lobby for them against all the government agencies that are stopping their funding of Stonewall and which has made them rich and powerful.

This was all started by selfish parents who were either unsatisfied with the gender of their child or didn't want to have gay/lesbian children.

Gender reassignment surgery should be for fully developed adults who are able to consent to said treatment. Not doing so would be equivalent to giving a 5 year old a rhinoplasty or breast implants.

George Soros is the evil mastermind pushing the trans agenda. It is… an abomination.

Yep, he is. Also Pritzker.

Where were these men during the HIV/AIDS epidemic? Where were they during DOMA and DADT? No where.

[quote]Kids should be allowed to socially transition if they please.

R112 But they aren't "transitioning" to anything. You mean kids should be allowed to be GENDER NON-CONFORMING, i.e., going against socially-dictated gender stereotypes.

[quote]George Soros is the evil mastermind

R128 Only in your bigoted empty head.

R121,r125, r126, etc. The Guardian article about Carrie at the Tory LGBT event is bullshit. She said nothing about the trans, beyond the obligatory "LGBT+". This is yet another scam effort by Stonewall, Mermaids and their supporters in the media - primarily that asshole reporting for the Guardian - to make it seem like they have mainstream political support and are hence mainstream opinion.

This was her speech. She didn't say anything about the trans, she does say "gay rights" and "lesbian and gay" though.

Thank you so much for that introduction, it is so fantastic to be here.

Whether you are LGBT+ or an ally like me, we are all committed to equality and acceptance for everyone, whoever you are and whomever you love.

There are still those who will tell you that being LGBT+ and a Tory is somehow incompatible. Well, looking around the room tonight we can see that is blatantly untrue.

The idea that your sexual orientation or your gender identity should determine your politics is now as logical as saying that your height or your hair colour should.

Many of you here tonight have helped play a part in the journey our party has taken on gay rights and we can now say with huge pride that it was a Conservative prime minister who delivered equal marriage in England and Wales.

I want you all to know that we now have a Prime Minister who is completely committed to accepting those gains and extending them further.

As a backbencher, Boris broke the whip to vote in favour of repealing Section 28, as Mayor of London he supported same sex marriage, as foreign secretary he lifted the ban on British embassies abroad flying the pride flag and as prime minister he has appointed the great Nick Herbert as the UK’s first special envoy on LGBT+ rights. And Last year he extended same sex marriage to Northern Ireland.

Boris also wanted me to remind you that as mayor he led the Pride parade wearing a rather fetching pink Stetson, which I think we should encourage him to do again.

But more seriously, the Government he leads is banning conversion therapy, rolling out PrEP on the NHS in England as part of its mission to eliminate HIV transmission and restoring medals to veterans who had them stripped from them for being lesbian or gay.

But for all the progress we have made as a society we know there is still a long way to go.

The LGBT+ community still faces stigma, harassment and discrimination, with hate crimes still a fact of life.

I heard myself from such a victim of crime at the pride reception we held in Downing Street earlier this year and I have to say I was moved to tears.

Around the world, being LGBT+ is still a crime in 71 countries. In 11 countries it is punishable by death. Just because of who you love. None of this is acceptable, obviously, and it is up to all of us to say so as loudly as we can.

That is why it is so important that the UK will be hosting its first ever global conference of LGBT+ right next year.

So whether it is about ending prejudice at home or abroad, LGBT+ Conservatives champion all these issues, so please keep doing what you are doing.

But also please keep doing something else as well, because groups like this don’t just exist to campaign, they also provide a support network for their members.

Every LGBT+ person must go on their own journey of self-acceptance and that I can imagine is not always easy.

There will be some people here tonight who are out to their friends, but maybe not to their family, or to their family but not their work colleagues, there might be some people here who are not out to everyone or questioning who they are.

Wherever you are in your journey, I can assure you you are among friends here. So thank you LGBT Conservatives for everything you do, I know how hard you and your team work Elena (Bunbury, chairwoman of the LGBT+ Conservatives) and I hope you all have a brilliant evening and a wonderful conference and I hope to see some of you on the dance floor.

Clarification: she did say "gender identity", as in "sexual orientation or gender identity" but she can't be too blatant about dumping the trans because they will get all hysterical, as they did over the LGB Alliance stall at the Tory conference. Also, that woman who runs the LGBT Tories is full-on for the trans cult, so Carrie didn't want to be completely rude to her host.

But, in policy terms, aside from a vague commitment to banning conversion therapy (which would also ban gay conversion therapy), trans activists would have been very disappointed with her speech. They are already complaining about the lukewarm support for their proposals for banning so-called conversion therapy for trans.

The Gaudrian long ago ceased to be a source of "news" and became an outlet for blatant agenda.

This trans stuff needs to be heavily regulated, to the point where it’s impossible to get “treatment”.

Yes, than k you, R129 and for the clarification at R130. Excellent points and she did mention a disturbing issue over whether children can receive proper psychological counseling if it does not strictly adhere to gender affirming which, of course, is not psychological counseling at all but preaching religious dogma.

But she does come up with this sexist and gender confirming trope:

[quote] Boris also wanted me to remind you that as mayor he led the Pride parade wearing a rather fetching pink Stetson, which I think we should encourage him to do again.

Still no understanding of what being a woman is or even what being a gay male is. Not all gay men are performative clowns. To them it's all about outward appearances.

So did Stonewall write that speech for her and include the PINK Stetson?

And there we have it, the thread is grayed out. Looks like the TRAs finally found it.

R136, ^^^ It's not grayed out for me. Maybe check your settings.

The trans sense of reality is so delicate and thin that anything or anyone that challenges it must be annihilated. Just like the trans have annihilated the truth of their true gender.

Well as has been pointed out, trans cult is like a religion. Thanks for the reminder.

'Whirlybird' with Zoey Tur. Exciting film.

Thank you, r130. Gender non comforting. Here on Datalounge, we have had thousands of threads about how we were gender nonconforming as kids. I think it's great the kids are gender non-conforming. We need to take power away from gender roles. I think the trans movement conversely gives way too much power to gender roles.

R137, that it's grayed out for anyone just shows how tyrannical they are.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

^^^ Those Canadians have lost the plot when it comes to trans.

How are you trans and non-binary? This person needed a parent to kick them in the arse.

I suspect the that the woman who runs the LGBT Conservatives and is deep into the trans cult - Elena Bunbury - is responsible for much of the spin about how Carrie Johnson's speech, which barely mentioned trannies, was "pro-trans".

Moreover, despite Bunbury's attempts to create some kind of negative atmosphere around LGB Alliance and give the impression that numerous members of the Conservative LGBT group were upset by it, it appears that the ordinary gay members were expressing their annoyance at their colonisation by the trans issue. Bunbury was probably obliged by the party to have LGB Alliance at "her" event and I can imagine she was fuming about it. She probably owes a lot of her "influence" to her closeness to Stonewall and is scared at seeing it slip away.

From The Times: [quote]Elena Bunbury, the 23-year-old chairwoman of the LGBT+ Conservatives, rebuked a heckler as she said that her group’s priority was protecting trans people. “There’s been a lot of debate surrounding this conference,” she said. “Trans lives and rights have been continually brought into question. We are the party of free speech, we are the party of debate, and I myself am a liberal, but trans people’s rights to exist is not a topic that is up for discussion.”

"Heckler" = ordinary, pissed-off gay.

I'm hearing more and more people saying they are done with trans and that they don't care if they are called 'transphobic' anymore. The poster who said the trans have over-played their hand is correct.

Transactivists have been their own worst enemy but they are too narcissistic to acknowledge it.

Screaming at people calling them TERFS and TRANSPHOBIC is pretty much all the trans have in their arsenal, so when that doesn't work anymore then what can they do? Nothing.

[quote]But they aren't "transitioning" to anything. You mean kids should be allowed to be GENDER NON-CONFORMING, i.e., going against socially-dictated gender stereotypes.

And that's exactly where we were headed as a society before the Transtapo decided to reinforce concrete gender stereotypes over and over and over. The Transtapo are acually regressive when it comes to gender. They seem to want to be 1950s stereotypes of men and women. It's ridiculous how stupid the wokesters are to have embraced something so absolutely regressive in the name of progress. Morons.

How does a 23-year-old get to be in that position anyway, and who would trust a 23-year-old to speak with any authority on any subject?

[quote] The Transtapo are acually regressive when it comes to gender. They seem to want to be 1950s stereotypes of men and women. It's ridiculous how stupid the wokesters are to have embraced something so absolutely regressive in the name of progress. Morons.

Yes! I say this all the time, and I think it’s one of most important points we need to emphasize over and over if we want to get through to the numbskull wokesters who swallow this ideology because they think it’s the progressive thing to do.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Bunbury is also allegedly bisexual, currently in a relationship with an ugly man.

[quote]Wow. When these doctors (yes, I know they’re trans themselves) are saying this…

Exactly. Bowers has tons of experience with transgender patients and their surgeries, and she’s trans herself. And she’s saying what’s going on now with these kids is bullshit.

Don’t overstate what Bowers said. S/he said “not a fan” of puberty blockers except in very serious dysphoria cases. Bowers admits that the kids & their families have not been adequately informed about the probability of permanent removal of possibility of orgasm.

Oh, and both doctors are being dragged to death today for agreeing to be interviewed by Abigail Shrier, who wrote Irreversible Damage. These doctors are actually doing a service in this debate.

R156, My friend is reading Abigail Shrier's book right now. I plan on grabbing it from her.

This post/book review is pretty interesting. Especially the parts about gay/lesbian erasure.

R154, she is gross and her boyfriend has girly legs. She's an attention whore - of course she wants to use the trans circus.

R128 oh please. Get out of here with the thinly-veiled right-wing antisemitism conspiracy theories. This isn't Q-Anon.

R131 yes, like I mentioned in r124, the Guardian totally and intentionally focused exclusively on the trans angle, even though most of what she was saying applied primarily to same-sex-attracted people.

I can see the writer looking for the most clickbait angle they can, and they did, to the detriment of greatly distorting what she actually said.

R133 the paper isn't pretending to be unbiased, but they do present their "news" articles as balanced. A quick look at the writers' Twitter accounts show a good number of them are zealots. Owen Jones for one, but also the writers who begrudgingly wrote the update to the Wi Spa story when it was revealed that the trans was a convicted sexual predator.

The lead writer complained about having to write an update to that story on his Twitter, and then did his best to diminish the revelation by quoting a bunch of statistics directly from Stonewall about how trans people are the REAL victims in the situation.

R147 Bunbury said she was working "behind the scenes" to get LGB Alliance kicked from the conference entirely because of their alleged (and untrue) transphobia.

Jazz's mom in all her glory.

[quote]Get out of here with the thinly-veiled right-wing antisemitism conspiracy

R159 George Soros is a scapegoat for both right- and left-wing Jew-hating bigots.

Also here's Dr. Bowers arguing with another surgeon to cut more aggressively while Jazz is open on the table, telling him "Let me go". The bickering starts at 14:35.

Just the fact that many of these post-transitioned people will not experience the joy of sexual pleasure is shocking and sad. Life isn’t just lived through our emotions and thoughts. God. How can any adult support this outcome for their children/patients?

Why do Dataloungers take this subject so personally? Let people make their own decisions in life- good or bad. You can't save the world.

It's not about you. Or is it? Do you have a fear of castration?

sad

R149 gays have become such a non serious joke that organizations think nothing of putting a 23 year old as gay liaison.

What a fucking joke.

R163, when one of the other women - presumably another Munchausen mother of a "trans" child - says "When you don't have that watchful eye, they tend to go back to old habits" it gives the game away.

The "old habits" are simply how the kid should be relating to its own body, not the freak body that these women have forced on their children. Behaving normally, in tune with one's body, is "old habits" that need to be drummed out of them with the aid of a "watchful eye". Fucking sick.

This hate is awful.

R171, are you talking about the hate of the parents for their probably gay child? Are you talking about the hate the T has for him/herself that makes them want to lop off healthy body parts? Are you talking about the hate the transtapo has for the gay community? You should be more clear.

[quote]are you talking about the hate of the parents for their probably gay child?

Well…that’s normal.

R167, the answer to your question has been given continously. No need for the incredibly stupid psychological answer.

To summarize a few: The trans are doing this foolishness in the name of LGB persons, hurting our cause by association. They may be helping to transition gay and lesbian kids who may be gender non-conforming. They distract from the fight for employment and other protections for gays. And part of this seems to be to deny same sex sexual orientation altogether. And finally we are concerned because we have an emphatic concern for the welfare of children.

It's striking to me that you don't recognize that these arguments exist. You are either a bad faith actor or lack the ability to empathize yourself. Probably the second is the dominant trait.

Indeed, r174. The trans cult is doing all this in our name and it's doing it mainly to gay kids. Those are reasons enough to be horrified. Another reason is that if you don't believe in the nonsense bullshit of gender identity and you don't believe that a little boy is really a little girl or a teenage girl is really a boy, then you perceive what is happening to these children as a Mengelean nightmare.

What r174 and r175 said, plus: we need to defend our right to state the truth, and that includes the fact that it's impossible to change biological sex. Allowing another person or organization successfully demand that you be forced to lie is a very dangerous precedent.

The story in r177's link, where repeated so-called "misgendering of someone on purpose (how can that even be proved?) is supposedly a human rights violation in Canada. This was the ruling in response to the case of a "non-binary" bio female whose "pronouns" are they/them or whatever exactly she chose.

It might just about work in English to dictate to someone that they refer to you as "they", but how does that work in the Francophone part of Canada, since in French the pronouns in the plural are also gendered but there is no neuter, only masculine and feminine? If she ever goes to Quebec, then she'll have to demand that she's referred to as "elles". Or will she choose "ils", the masculine plural in French?

People like this are fucking idiotic.

R167 Oh, I dunno. Maybe they don’t want to be cancelled or shamed because they refuse to believe that some men have vaginas?

One thing I'm very grateful the T+ crowd did is creating a new (eyesore) flag, and mandating it's use amongst all the TRA faithful. Now the old, regular, perfectly good rainbow flag can go back to being for gays and lesbians!

r180 no, the rainbow flag and colors is being used by Stonewall and other groups as branding for the LGBTIA2S++ "queer" people. It's not the flag for the gays and lesbians any longer.

Absolutely nothing is for the gays and lesbians any longer. 'Our funding, our organisations and the goodwill we have built up over decades - all gone to trans. It's like we hardly exist anymore.

Here is the dissection of a young woman trying to pretend she did scientific research to undcover that "transphobia" is the gateway to all other phobias like homophobia and misogyny and white supremacy and NAZIS.

The description by the our friend TT:

[quote] A tiktok social science "researcher" with a gift for rapidly finding any and all white supremacist content on social media via user adaptive advertising algorithms, even though she started at a very feminine stack of cookies. She then projects her "findings" onto me, a common house TERF, quite plainly out of jealousy.

"Vaginoplasty" is such a spurious coinage: it combines Latin and Greek roots. Let's please use the more puristic "cysthoplasty."

"Frankencooter" works too.

Windsock Undercarriage

Maybe now Jazz will get the straight boys' attention:

[quote] Maybe now Jazz will get the straight boys' attention:

Well at least the military ones - they love size. What does Jazz claim to be attracted to? Was Jazz a gay boy?

Jazz is really getting homelier with age.

R187 Since when did she get massive stripper tits?

Since she transitioned from gay man to…

This is how gay men view women. Sex toys for straight guys.

r190 not just gay men.

R187 'Stripper tits' and Dangling tendrils.

Gay men and straight men, R191.

R193, that's kind of all the men, no?

Maybe, maybe not.

I don't view women that way, but I know a lot of other men do.

Being a feminist without being feminine is lacking. Men don't like that. Got to try. Battle the demons Francisca and Bertharine. Seek solice not in the hate gutter but in the Temple of Enlightenment. Fishing for trout offers fresh air and exercise; being fishy is unclean, unhealthy, and smelly. Not attracting the good Karma. Terf vs trans is not sobering, and a rugged distraction leading to dishonor. No glory there. Better to frolic in the meadow, listening to the crickets chirp and the owl hooting at sunset. Remove the shackles of self-flagulation and oppression. Think of the soaring eagle, the salamander enjoying the coolness of the mud. The Phoridae fly takes away the fire ant. The bullfrog can zap and taste the mosquito.

Um, hating on George Soros is not "anti=semitism." Nice try, asshole. To immediately accuse anyone of being an anti-semite who takes issue with someone who is Jewish (not because of their Judaism) is aggressively ridiculous.

Other people worth hating who have pushed the trans-sanity on us all:

Ryan Murphy, for allowing the Paris is Burning narrative to get sanitized and romanticized in a way that normalizes a plastic-surgery and hormone-based version of transgender that is complete and utter bullshit.

NBC Universal for casting Josie Totah on the new "Saved by the Bell" and attempting to normalize the abnormal.

The Kardashian/Jenner empire for trying to normalize this shit through Bruce-zilla.

Jill/Joey/Schizohphrenic Soloway - for smearing the world with the feces of her familial mental illness with "Transparent" -- and then not even having the back of hesheits leading performer when the fucking insane Trace Lysette tried to come for Tambor.

Sam Levinson for turning the teenage drama "Euphoria" into a pro-trans bit of bullshit. The show is also getting away with the most overt Ephebophilia of any show in history.

THESE HAVE BEEN THE LEADING FORCES IN POPULAR CULTURE THAT ARE PUSHING THIS SHIT THE PAST FIVE YEARS. It's time to boycott and call them out for this not-even-subtle attempt to ruin gay children's lives and wipe gay people out.

If that photo of Jazz and her chest isn’t photoshopped, and to me it looks like her face is too far away, the proportions still are all wrong. It reminds me of when Harvey Korman would dress in drag on The Carol Burnett Show. Everything is too broad.

r198 um, "George Soros" has become a siren for the right who use him as a placeholder for "the Jews". You're a total idiot if you don't know this. And especially when in the context as of your original remark, that he's one of the leaders of a global conspiracy? Yes. That is exactly the right-wing, anti-Semitic position.

Also, it's not as you think.

[quote] The trans are doing this foolishness in the name of LGB persons, hurting our cause by association

These trans are gross but by now, I dont quite agree with the last part. Where have been the loud 1. LGB voices against T cult?

I know they exist but have been eclipsed by much more powerful and louder 2. LGB voices that say "We're all together as one lgbTQIA2S+ / Queer / LGB with T".

Don't blame the nonpolitical straights when almost all they see is the voices like #2 everywhere.

I also do not see (semi-) famous LGB people supporting #1 other than Martina and few (& some straights like Rowling) while I see tons of crazy LGB celebs, politicians and blueticks shilling #2.

Who hurts our cause?

I've seen some British gay male celebrities -- such as James Dreyfus (Notting Hill, Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!) and Simon Callow (Maurice, Four Weddings and a Funeral) -- speak out against the T cult. But have any American gay male celebrities spoken out?

R178 You can see lots of French loons with "iel / iels" when you look around French LGBTQIA+ twitter for example...

It's not just self-proclaimed non-binaries but also deranged "cis" who love to use like "she/they" "she/they/he" "he/they".

But those are made-up words r203. Would love to see a Canadian court rule that French-speaking Canadians are legally obliged to use words that were invented only a couple of years ago and which don't make grammatical sense.

R200 - just call that poster a sissy and to be a man.

Soros isn’t fond of gays. He’s fine with trans. He prefers transgenderism.

Hah, so you can't rebut or support your weird Soros-bashing so you switch tactics.

Nice try.

Sissy^!

Imagine a world where a femme-acting boy and butch-acting girl are forced to become the opposite gender through hormones and surgery. To make sure we only have two types of people on this planet - boys and girls and nothing in between.

I think the conservatives want this. They would rather this than... gay.

It's ironic to me that transsexuals want to claim *to be* a man/woman and then have to "state their pronouns."

R209 if that's the case then it's ironic that the conservatives are the only ones standing up to the gender lobby.

This whole movement is entirely based on narcissism. It's a sign of a societal collapse.

R199 that's the real kicker since Jazz is held up as an example of why trans kids should be put on puberty blockers asap, but it actually causes the opposite. The meds didn't do everything promised and instead made actual transition later on very difficult. I think they're mistaken in believing they'll stop all sex traits (most kids look androgynous naturally without these meds) because the traits always find a way to come through. (Maybe) Not as pronounced, but there's always something off.

IMO The trade off doesn't seem worth it. So they might be slightly shorter, or their bones won't be as thick, but it does so much damage and doesn't prevent other characteristics from popping up anyway.

For those on the fence about this, or think it's just bigots stirring up hate, I suggest looking up the side effects of "puberty blockers" in cases completely unrelated to transitioning. Girls were given that drug (Lupron) for a time to delay early periods/ puberty. The side effects were devastating and they have been trying to sue for years now. It's known for causing suicidal thoughts.

That same drug is used to treat prostate cancer and in IVF to halt ovulation. Same thing, a lot of side effects. In fact, it's so risky to take, adults are told to not use it longer than absolutely necessary, but somehow this is ok to be given to kids for years of they're trans...

Yeah, it's reckless to drug healthy kids for years and destroy their future fertility while they're underage. It's crazy how this has been okayed and that parents and people who question this protocol are demonized.

This is going to be one of those "How could they have done that?" things that people in the future will view with shock. (Along with rendering our planet increasingly uninhabitable.)

[quote]This is going to be one of those "How could they have done that?" things that people in the future will view with shock.

It does feel like the "satanic panic" of the 1980s, where every preschool was under suspicion for kiddie fucking and anyone who spoke out was OBVIOUSLY A PART OF IT.

Goody Proctor didn't affirm my 4-year-old's LIVED EXPERIENCE as a girl! Stone her!

Oh god I'm so sick of people talking about "lived experience" as if that is the same as a PhD. Your perceptions, inner turmoil, and mental issues are not science.

I compare it to lobotomies, which were accepted practice in the 1940's. Now they seem like science fiction. The transing fad will follow a similar trajectory. In a few decades we'll look back and wonder....WTF?

Bring back electroshock therapy!

What is this "neovagina" nonsense? The surgically created pocket for transwomen isn't even a pseudovagina, nothing even close to the real organ.

Yea, R219. Accept nothing but the real thing.

It isn't nice to fool Mother Nature.

Sometimes the neo-vagine is built from the colon. True.

So they are shitting out of their cunts? I guess a high fiber diet would not be in their best interests not would a bowl of chili or Taco Bell.

Yes.

I can’t imagine a vaginal-colon even feeling good, for any party.

Is it called a semicolon?

[quote]So they are shitting out of their cunts? I guess a high fiber diet would not be in their best interests not would a bowl of chili or Taco Bell.

[quote]—Cheryl

I laughed way too hard at this. I’m not even high.

Honestly the blowup doll look is prevalent in both transgender and cisgender women. We have only the Kardashian-Jenner family to blame. Before that reality show came out there weren't a lot of women who looked like that aside from Amanda Lepore and mostly adult film actresses like the late and iconic Lolo Ferrari. When that asshole family took over and started going for that look it broke the mainstream and became one of the most requested looks at the offices of cosmetic surgeons all over the country as well as Eastern Europe and elsewhere. Thank God Asia remained immune to the effect for the most part. Of course there are the Kano Sisters who were the Japanese forerunners of the Kardashians but they never really achieved much notoriety outside of Japan.

Her mom was convinced she was going to give birth to girl.

r218, ECT is actually a fantastic procedure that's more effective at ending certain types of depression than... well... ANYTHING.

Forget how it was mis-portrayed in "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest". ECT ("electroshock") isn't a form of torture or punishment. The patient is fully-anesthetized & unconscious from start to finish. They're sedated, the procedure takes place, they later wake up, and their depression is (usually) GONE.

It's a damn shame so many people are afraid of it, because it's probably UNDER-utilized as a treatment today.

That said, transorbital lobotomy WAS a terrible procedure. It was actually ILLEGAL to perform in the Soviet Union, because it was (rightfully) seen as barbaric & harmful. Yeah, you read that correctly. The Soviet Union was bad... and even IT thought lobotomies crossed a line & were too awful to ethically perform on patients.

Oh fuck off, r227.

R230 You first.

I'm the OP, so you can fuck off r231, with your attempts to blame women for the sick, disgusting lunacy of adult male perverts and for the disgusting things that are being done to children in order to trans them.

I notice you didn't blame Bruce as part of your attribution of the trans craze to the Kardashian-Jenner family.

Here's something that you no doubt blame women for, on the arm of the twisted entitled male "transwoman" showrunner of Dear White People.

R232 I'm blaming only the Kardashians for causing severe damage to beauty standards. I am not mocking all women. So stop getting triggered over nothing.

This thread isn't about "severe damage to beauty standards", r233. It's about the severe damage being done to children by most often male "transwomen" surgeons and clinicians, who have been all too eager to get small children and adolescents onto puberty blockers and surgery asap, without any serious clinical or psychological assessments. That's nothing to do with beauty standards, although it is a lot to do with the bizarre fetishisation of what it means to be a woman by some men. And, no, women are not to blame for the twisted views of some men.

R234 I know but more than one person in this thread commented on why so many transwomen go for a certain look and I was attempting to answer that by explaining why and how cisgender women also sometimes alter their appearance in the same way as well. I wasn't attacking cisgender or transgender women in a misogynistic matter. I was blaming the negative influence certain influential figures in the media have on women. Both trans and cis. And yes, I do believe Caitlyn has also undergone extreme and unnecessary cosmetic procedures like the rest of the family.

Going back on subject, I am appalled at the increasing number of children transitioning or being coerced by their parents into doing so at an early age. It has to be stopped. 18 years of age should once again be the universal age of consent for such a life altering medical procedure. And it should only be up to the person themself without any influence or manipulation from other individuals.

It's like a scene in Great Britain when Carol accidentally schedules a little girl having her tonsils removed for a double hip replacement. When the girl's mother states her daughter doesn't need one Carol responds that she'll need it later on and should be best get it done now. Those are a majority of the parents of trans children in a nutshell. As well as some of the doctors and surgeons themselves.

Is the colon vagina comment a low-key insult at gays for having anal?

Cisgender is such a fucking stupid word.

No. They make the vagine out of the colon. But, yes, R236–a good portion of transwomen are gay men that couldn’t handle being gay or simply did not want to be gay.

Or parents who did not want gay kids.

That poor Jazz creature cannot experience sexual pleasure anymore. That’s why he eats so much. He’s enormously fat.

R235, your use of the fake word "cis" to refer to real women invalidates everything else you have to say.

No, r236. Some surgeons use a portion of colon to supplement the paltry prepubescent peen in making the neo-orifice vagina. But Dr Bowers says she/he draws the line at using colon, because of the risk of frequent infection.

Colon, semicolon…it all brings pause to two main clauses: cock and balls.

I have mixed feelings about trans GUYS... most of whom are, in fact, mentally-indtstinguishable from gay men. If someone ever manages to solve their penis problem (or more precisely, the frustrations caused by their lack of a penis), I honestly think 98% would happily transition & never look back. If anything, I think they were MORE likely to have regret in the past.. back when being a gay man was considered WORSE than being a tomboy spinster.

In a perfect world, trans men could live and dress the way they wanted, and nobody would genuinely care about their appearance. Except, the world Isn't perfect, and transitioning to male is ironically their one viable path to happiness. Passing for male (and gaining its perks by default) is fairly do-able penis notwithstanding). Changing society's attitudes towards women within the span of a few years is impossible.

Every trans guy I've ever met has been INTP personality type. INTP is rare among men, and EXTRAORDINARILY rare among women (to the point where, as late as the 1960s, there were (now thoroughly discredited) mainstream psychological & psychiatric views arguing it was genetically IMPOSSIBLE to be INTP (or INTJ) without a 'Y' chromosome.

Now, we know it's just rare, because INTP men & women find parenting to be less-appealing than any other type... and INTP women aren't shy about terminating unwanted pregnancies, so evolution continue to select against INTP women (INTP men usually manage to father a few kids by accident, so they're less rare) .

My point is, allowing teen 'tomboy' women to transition to male isn't somehow "cheating" them out of fertility. They DON'T WANT kids, EVER... carried by them OR anyone else. Their breasts will NEVER be anything to them besides a source of shame & embarrassment, the same way moobs due to gynecomastia are to men. Plumbing-wise, their options are still pretty dismal (at least, until penis transplants from a cadaver become a viable option), but worries about future "regret" are pointless. In the entire history of modern medicine, there MIGHT be something like a 0.001% rate of trans men wanting to de-transition back to women. The overwhelming majority might be disappointed if they run out of money to maintain their new gender identity properly, but I don't think ANY of them genuinely want to ever live as a woman again.

The tendency of trans guys to end up 'gay' is easy to explain, too. Trans guys might end up steered into initial public identities as butch lesbians, but they LOVE dicks and muscles. They just hate the way being a woman gets them viewed & treated by men. Once they look like men and get accepted as a man, they want as much dick as they can get (especially for a few days after each T shot, when they're as horny as teenage boys).

Sorry, but trans men are as easy to clock as trans women. I watched Colette (2018) last night and there's a scene where Keira Knightley interacts with a character named Gaston, but who was quite obviously a trans man. The movie is chock full of 21st century ideology grafted on to Belle Époque France, for example saying "gender" when they would have said "sex" at that time.

[quote] trans GUYS... most of whom are, in fact, mentally-indtstinguishable from gay men.

You lost me right here. Fuck all the way off, bisexual tranny fucker @R244 F&F

Did Jazz ever have sexual satisfaction though? He’s been taking hormones since he was little. The article says that at 17 he had the penis of an 11 year old.

“Neovagina” sounds like a character in a Luc Besson movie.

R244? Interesting anecdote -- but that's it.

Show me the data.

[quote]My point is, allowing teen 'tomboy' women to transition to male isn't somehow "cheating" them out of fertility. They DON'T WANT kids, EVER... carried by them OR anyone else.

They're insisting the term "pregnant women" be changed to "pregnant people" precisely because they're still having babies after transitioning to male.

And how do they know at 16 that they don't want children when they're 36?

Which is when men do. Give birth.

Because they’re being pressured by others, R250. Parents, school, Datalounge, doctors.

R251 rather.

251 In the case of Jazz they all selfishly said that his sister would carry a baby for him, as though the sister would be all hung ho on that idea.

There was also the story of a 16-year-old Scottish boy - supposedly a "trans girl" - who had his sperm frozen at age 14 so that he could take puberty blockers. He died at age 16 of a heart attack. How the fuck does a 16 year old "die suddenly" if it isn't because of the shit he'd been taking to stop his body's normal development?

His Munchausen mother has been fighting to stop his sperm from being destroyed so that it can be used to create a baby with a surrogate at some point in the future. I don't know what the court decided, this story seems to have dropped out of the media.

^ Just to clarify, I'm not 100% sure if he died of a heart attack, but I remember reading that at the time. The BBC describes the cause of his death as "unascertained".

16-18 to drive

18-21 to buy cigarettes

18 to vote

21 to buy alcohol

25 to rent a car

35 to run for president

Sander Jennings brother of Jazz helps clarify the use of pronouns

Speaking of tragedy, Jazz Jenning's brother needs to help this person with their literal violence. His injuries were so severe it's thought he may never walk again:

Couldn’t the security staff read their “They / Them” earrings?

🙄

I honestly can’t determine whether MsRebeccaChance is being serious or sarcastic in her response.

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R241 I didn't invent the term. If I had my way I'd refer to all types of women as women instead of using the divisive prefixes. Same goes for all types of men. There's no need for such hostile TERF behavior. I try to keep a level head and be kind to others and see the good in them.

I'm not bothered by transgender people. But some people on here hate them so much you'd think they were forced to watch their entire family get murdered by a transgendered person with the vitriol spouted on here.

I'm not here to change anybody's mind regarding the transgender community. Because that would be futile and I don't want to. I'll leave that to other people to do so.

But just remember that the first 3 letters of the LGBT community also had to go through centuries of hell to get to the place we are now. Same goes for minorities. Everybody is practically in the same boat and we all still have a long way to go.

R265 please don't compare and diminish our centuries of struggle - which is still not over, as most countries in the world still consider it illegal - as LGB, which is same-sex attraction, to the narcissism of the T movement, which is based around gender theory and "personal identities" that can change day-to-day for some, and which is also about self-identifying into a protected class and diminishing women's rights as a result.

Jazz got her neo vag constructed from a portion of her stomach. Does that mean she can vomit out her cunt?

R266 Regardless. I consider them family. I try to take care of and protect my own and leave no-one out or behind.

R259, that makes no sense. Is this how they package gobbledegook?

He was referring to a couple - 2 people - so he used plural words they and them. So that person tried to pretend it's then same referencing a single person.

R268 but they aren't family. Their issues have nothing to do with us, with the exception that their takeover of formerly gay organizations means they are now associated with us, and we will only suffer the brunt of their overreach.

If they're really your family, shouldn't they care about you, too?

What they do to those poor kids is Mengele level atrocities

Semicolon.

So, will OGBYNs be checking prostates now?

Looks like, yes.

R256, how much do you want to bet that if she had a grandson with her tran son's sperm she would try to transition him as well?

r271 But when it's what the leftists, liberals celebrate, it's called brave and stunning human rights progress

And "necessary medical care".

Shemicolon.

I’d eat Sander’s ass.

Myers-Brigg classifications were made up by a mother/daughter team pretty much out of thin air and don't really stand up to scientific scrutiny, so R244 idiocy about INTP women not ever wanting kids and despising their bodies is idiotic.

I do think there's a link between autism and girls thinking because they're atypical in their interests that they're somehow "really" male. Throw in the black and white thinking and social media contagion and there you go.

R280, I think it's more about vulnerable girls thinking they'll feel safer in the world if they are perceived as male. The sad part is, if they can pass well enough, they are probably right. I've always been glad that I was a tomboy and not a waif-like girl. I think I'd feel vulnerable all the time as a small, frail looking woman in this world. I'd wager a ton of the recent girls who want to be boys were also sexually abused.

Let's see some hot terfs, swimsuit edition.

[quote]Let's see some hot terfs, swimsuit edition.

"Surf 'n' TERF"

R280, r281, a study was recently done on 5 female detransitioners, which found:

[quote]The review established that four main themes emerged around the desire to transition; mental health, fear around puberty and the growing realization of sexuality and how one’s female body relates to the world, and peer groups. There were two distinct themes around the decision to detransition which are mental health and a change in environment. There is also a theme that emerges around the concept of gender identity. Faye also found a strong age milestone similarity for all 5 participants and their journey.

R264 ahahahaha read the reviews

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