“The Many Saints of Newark” should have been a limited series instead of a movie

Thanks for the capsule review. I've heard rumors that a young Tony Soprano with Michael Gandolfini is in the works, so this may turn out to essentially be the pilot.

R1 nice! But this should have still been a series.

Is it me, or is this title just a rip off of Household Saints and Guide to Recognizing Your Saints?

R3 no one saw that movie. It flopped majorly. So who cares?

R4 Which one?

R5 Guide to Recognizing You Saints

R7 It’s still the best work Channing Tatum has ever done and has cult status fir many people.

"Many Saints" is the English translation of "Moltisanti," Dickie and Cristufuh's last name. Like OP, I wish this had been stretched into a miniseries. Without Nivola, though, I'm much less interested in a future series.

R9 100% he made the film better. He’s a terrific actor.

OP, what are your favorite movies and series with Alessandro Nivola? Thanks.

R11 Laurel Canyon,

The Art or Self-Defense

You Were Never Really Here

Who Do You Love

The Sisters

He was also in A Most Violent Year and American Hustle but they sucked. He has a tiny role in Selma

Also, Ain’t Them Bodies Saints. Total rip-off.

Nivola is very good in Disobedience and Junebug too.

Why do we idolize these sociopathic WOPS in movie after bloody movie? I don't get it.

So the prequel to the Sopranos was ALL about black people, but the Sopranos wasn't?

God, I'm so fucking sick of this woke culture.

It started out in Newark in 1967, r16. How were they supposed to ignore the riots? Those weren't fiction.

Nivola is incredibly sexy in both "Junebug" and "Mansfield Park."

He is also very appealing in "Coco Before Chanel."

I liked it but it felt incomplete. Mismarketed as a Bronx Tale kind of story. Thought we’d see Tony get indoctrinated into the life by his uncle. Instead we got an entertaining movie with amusing characters and some black stuff that felt… a bit try-hard.

Nothing about the black characters felt try-hard. Enough with the racist shit. Enough. If those characters were made white with the same type of story of not being welcome for other reasons like being Irish or Jewish, you all would be fine. But because they’re black you’re upset.

Guess what, it takes place in 1967 Newark. Those riots REALLY HAPPENED. All that drama because black people were moving in HAPPENED. All over NJ and NYC. That was really happening. There was nothing woke about it. Stop using that word AS GAY MEN. If you don’t see why then I feel sorry for you.

You're missing the point R20. No one is arguing that the riots didn't happen.

The problem is that there is a fucking OBSESSION WITH RACE right now in American culture and a lot of us ARE SICK OF IT because the underlying equation is whites = bad; everyone else = good.

Not in this movie, r21. It’s a mess, but it’s not saintly blacks against venal whites. Everybody is a bad guy (which is part of the problem with the movie).

I'm the biggest Sopranos fan in the world and was so excited for this release. It wasn't bad--but mediocre. It might have been better if they followed a different mob story because seeing cameos of young versions of Sopranos characters (most cartoonish imitations, though young Livia was great--probably the best character in the entire movie) was distracting. The brief cameo of Carmella did work.

Plus, they flat out repeated lines/catch phrases and re-creations of memories from the original, which seemed lazy.

The main character, Dickie, wasn't fully realized--again felt like lazy writing: alternating scenes between him being a caring uncle and vicious thug. It had none of the nuance of the original show.

So weird to see Alessandro Nivola as an Italian American for once.

R24 agree. I actually was shocked to see he’s American recently. Based on everything I’ve seen him in, I always assumed he was from Europe. I was shocked to see he’s born and raised in Michigan.

R23 I think that’s my point of it would be better as a limited series than a film. We could actually watch the characters grow and have more backstory and fleshed our characters.

Trying to do it in 2 hours DIDNT work.

Nivola was hot as hell in the recent TV remake of Black Narcissus. I've been a fan of his for a while too, I was glad to see him get the role in this film.

If only the film were better. As a nostalgia trip for diehard Sopranos fans, it has things to offer. As a standalone film, or just as a film period, it's half-baked, full of broad strokes, whereas the Sopranos series was full of subtlety and detail. It's become much clearer now just how much of The Sopranos' success was due to the incredible writing team, not David Chase himself.

The Black guys and the Italian guys were bad. Everyone was bad. Neither side was “good”.

Also, the film does exactly what real life was like, the Italians all within their own area, and everyone (including themselves) referred to them as Italians. They never said “those whites” it was always “those Italians”. That was reality. Italians, even if white, were always seen as different.

R21 there were no WASPs in the movie. It was Italians vs Black. Not white vs black.

In real life a lot of WASPs didn’t want Italians in their neighborhoods either.

R27 but you aren’t acknowledging the difference… The Sopranos was a SERIES, this was a FILM. That is the biggest difference.

So young Tony has a Black girlfriend in this, wasn’t his character quite fascist?

[quote]The Sopranos was a SERIES, this was a FILM. That is the biggest difference.

I GET IT, thanks. The FILM proves Chase is a long-form storyteller, not a filmmaker.

R31 I agree. And sorry for the capitalization, was just trying to emphasize. I think that was OPs point, this should have been a series because Chase is better for that kind of storytelling than a film.

[quote]The problem is that there is a fucking OBSESSION WITH RACE right now in American culture and a lot of us ARE SICK OF IT because the underlying equation is whites = bad; everyone else = good.

Oh, poor you!

R30 maybe he grew fascist with time.

I’m certain many of us don’t think exactly the same as we did when we were kids and teens. I know I don’t.

Sometimes we change for the better and sometimes for the worse.

The Newark riots were pretty shattering and 50+ years later the city still has not fully recovered.

While there had been plenty of movement to the suburbs, the various white ethnic communities (Italians, Jews, Irish) still had viable neighborhoods in Newark and plenty of people lived there by choice, and they all emptied out within weeks after the riots.

So a huge piece of history in that corner of NJ that can't really be ignored.

And again I hate Livia Soprano. That woman is just miserable to the core. Just complains. Loved when Johnny boy shot at her hairdo! I rewinded several times lol

"She had a bob the next day"

-Janice

R28 interesting you caught that, because I did too. The Italians were almost never referred to as white, and I can confirm with you as a very white eldergay originally from NJ that the Italians did live in their own areas and most WASP men didn’t want the Italians hanging around their areas because they were a bad look and lowered the worth/quality, but not as much as with “Mexicans” (what all the whites would call Hispanics. If you were Hispanic you were Mexican, period, or they used derogatory words) or blacks.

There were a lot of battles between Italians and Blacks going back many years. People always say we were bad, and we were, but Italians were worse to Black people than anyone IMHO during the 60s and on. They were more aggressive with their shit and almost used racism as a way to prove their “whiteness”.

Italians were classified as Latin in America for decades before that was stopped and they were put under “Caucasian”, which is a white created word. Caucasian didn’t mean white originally but someone from Europe started referring to white people as Caucasians which then became the meaning.

Funny how that works.

I'm halfway through. So far, Dickie is woke and not racist- which is absurd for traditional Italians in NJ (pretty much even now) and Harold is a hero in a way no Sopranos character has ever been. This is absolutely pandering to the zeitgeist. Don't be absurd. There are no heroes in the Sopranos. Even Dr. Melfi is an enabler and seeking titillation from Tony and taking his blood money.

This is woke Sopranos- and that's ok. But you need to be aware of it, because it is pandering and tries to rewrite racism.

How is Dickie woke? Because he does business with black guys? That isn’t uncommon.

There goes the woke word again. From the same poster but on a different account. Jesus.

Woke BENEFITS YOUR ASS.

Oh Jesus, Harold is a feminist! Telling Giuseppia he would be proud if she wanted to work. It's absurd.

[quote]a lot of us ARE SICK OF IT because the underlying equation is whites = bad; everyone else = good.

Imagine how sick "everyone else" was of it when the equation was reversed. Which was up to about a minute ago in historical terms.

R39 THANK YOU. It was very common to still do business with some people even if you hated them. It was business. Not personal.

Also, not every single fucking Italian was a raging racist to the core. To think every single Italian would be deeply racist to the point of not being able to speak to a black person is absurd.

And SOME men didn’t mind their women working back then.

R40, I am absolutely not the same poster. I am using "woke" to represent a 2021 reading of engagement and behavior with racism and feminism that would be inconceivable in the 1960s.

R39, he gave Harold $500 free and clear to disappear. That would never happen. He shows black fellow criminals - the button boy in the first scene- a regard that exceeds what he would show any criminal at that level who defied him. It's fantasy.

It feels like the Sopranos. A "normal" person goes feeling icky for liking these horrible people.

R44 he tried helping Harold because Harold worked for him and he seemed to actually like Harold despite him being black. He did it so he could vanish which would mean Dickie wouldn’t have to hurt him or his people.

Again, not every fucking Italian was the same and one big stereotype, you racist piece of shit.

R46, fuck you- you are missing the point you absolute asshole. It's not about RACE. It's about the mafia. And the money- and THE SOPRANOS. What happened to Chris? What happened to everyone?! Only Paulie was alive at the end.

But I'm done- live in your fantasy. Go fuck yourself.

So Junior had Dickie clipped?! Then why did Tony tell Christopha' to kill that cop in the series?

Also, am I racist because Italians... aren't white? Are they....

Adjacent.

Written by Lawrence Konner, dad of the "Girls" showrunner.

I win.

I love that on Datalounge some of Our Eldergays imagine a world where 70 years ago, NJ was populated by genteel WASPs with small communities of "Negroes", "Spanish people" and "Italians" whereas the reality was there were many sizable ethnic communities, Jewish and Catholic (Irish, Polish, Hungarian) throughout the state.

While I have no doubt there was racism towards all of the ethnic communities in the immediate postwar era, 70 years later that's just not the reality some Our Eldergays would like it to be.

OP makes a point about how Hollywood, almost a decade into the streaming wars, still is trying to shoehorn longform content into the devil’s candy of theatrical release. It does not surprise me that Newark and another film getting criticized for this, Dune, are both from Warner Bros., which seems to be having the most trouble adapting to the new ecosystem. Typically Warner Bros. was known for putting the most product out of any studio into theatres. Now that that’s largely unnecessary, it seems they still are stuck in habits of yesterday.

Does anyone else find Gandolfini's son too fugly to anchor the film? There's a resemblance to his dad, of course, but James was one hot fuck and the kid is just awkward and unappealing (and the wig doesn't help.

Michael Gandolfini is the spirit of the movie. His looks don't matter. Seeing him heartbroken in that last scene was too much.

Good thing the film centers on his Uncle Dickie.

He is the heart of the film though.

R51 no one hopes for that. We are stating the truths. Italians were seen as beneath us WASPs in the 60s. This idea that they were treated just as us is a lie.

Also, there is still a hell of a lot of prejudice toward Jews and white “ethnics”. Do not fool yourself.

I see that I am in the minority here, but I unapologetically loved it.

Alessandro Nivola, Vera Farmiga and Leslie Odom Jr. in particular, were excellent in their roles. As a diehard fan of the original series in respect to Michael Gandolfini, I agree with R54. He did his old man proud.

The movie should have been about how the young, smart Tony got drawn into a life of crime.

There wasn't enough time spent on him.

And all the stories about black people had nothing to do with Tony or a show called The Sopranos.

@ R56 "While I have no doubt there was racism towards all of the ethnic communities in the immediate postwar era, "

I do not seem to be fooling myself.

[quote]James was one hot fuck

I always thought he was a disgusting slob. I felt sorry for Carmella having to sleep with him.

I never found Tony attractive. I didn’t find any of his family hot.

Nobody who uses woke as a slur is an actual DLer. These posts come from incel trolls.

I saw it last night, I liked it. I went in with fairly low expectations, I mean, how could a two hour prequel compare to the rich story-telling, that 80-something episodes of great television afford? It can't.

I didn't like the fudged timeline, I mean according to the series, Tony was 8 years old in 1967, and Chris Moltisanti was born in 1969.

I did like the appearance of older relatives of main characters in "The Sopranos", that werent explicitly identified. That said, there is a lot of cheap "fan service" in the film, I can at least identify one instance, that was obviously post-prod, as this thing has "been in the can" (heh) for over a year.

The Ray Liotta stuff, was a bit much, but there are some Chase dream sequences, as well as, you finally find out who killed Dickie Moltisanti, and why.

The younger versions of the most-loved characters was overdone, to the point of SNL comedy sketch mimicry, but Gandolfini's son did a tremendous job, considering what he had to live up to.

Definitely Couldve been a 6 episode miniseries, ya ask me.

Anyway, $4 a pound

I grew up in Irvington, near Vailsburg (Newark) NJ. I had some relatives in the mob (low-level shit).

Some of this film is very familiar, especially the riots. My sister and I were going to a YM-YWCA day camp up in Towaco NJ, and the bus stopped in Newark to pick up kids from their Y's. During the riots and shortly after, we skipped the pickups. Anyway, this was more relatable to me, having lived there and in that time, than The Sopranos.

The set locations are very good. Olympic Park (where Janice and Tony saw their father get picked up) was spot on. It was located in Irvington, close to Union.

It felt very familiar, all in all.

If you're here to wokescold, you're in the wrong place. Go back to 8kun and play with your shit.

[quote]Nobody who uses woke as a slur is an actual DLer.

Fuck you, woke-ass cunt. Fuck you right back to SJWville.

All that “wokeness” is why you now can get married r66

Thanks r12 r13 r14, and anyone else who recommends something with Alessandro Nivola. I've seen a fair number of them already, but I hadn't seen Junebug. The story stands up structurally, but I couldn't take the mother, the brother, and the sister-in-law as people. And they were on camera so much, hardly any of the movie involved George (Nivola's character). Oh, well. On to the next.

Oh, as a dish queen, I did enjoy getting a look inside Replacements, Ltd.

What was Irvington like in the 50s and 60s R64

My husband grew up in Essex County and says it's a pretty rough area now

Let me give you a little history lesson. I Went to a school that was ethnically diverse. We had Italians, Jews, BLACKS, Latino, Middle Eastern, etc. Oh. Irish, WASP, Poles and even some Turks Uzbeks, and Russians. I am familiar with local lore and history. In1960's and even earlier in some other cities, Blacks began to muscle in on the numbers racket that was controlled for a time by Jews, then by Italians. That is what you're seeing in this Soprano movie. It's a bit of urban history.

Now to those of you who think it is too "Woke" to "always " be including Blacks in movies and TV shows, I can tell you that back in the 50's and even into the 60's TV was practically lily white. It was as if Blacks didn't exist unless they were servants, maids and butlers. So fuck you and your racist asses. Black people have been erased from history and popular culture to accommodate you for decades. So fuck off. And no, I am not Black...I am Italian .

Well-stated R70. I'm half-Italian and half-Lithuanian. BTW, a little more urban history, Sam Giancana and the Italian mob muscled in on the numbers business in Black neighborhoods in Chicago in the 50s. It's how Sam Giancana got brought into the Mob. Giancana met a Black numbers Kingpin named Eddie Jones in prison and Jones befriended him and gave him a job when he got out of prison. Giancana was able to buy a nice house for himself and his family working for Jones but when he saw the opportunity to get in good with the Mob, he suggested to them that they take over Jones's operation. So Giancana and some guys kidnapped Jones at gunpoint, gave him the choice of taking $250,000.00 and leaving town or being killed. Jones was a businessman, not a gangster so he took the money. That's how the mob took over the Chicago numbers game in the Black community. All Giancana had to do was betray the best friend he ever had. Now that would make for a great movie.

[quote]And no, I am not Black...I am Italian .

Tomato/To-mah-to

I was born in 1957, so I really don't remember anything before 1960, r69. Anyway, it was a great childhood. Suburban, a little idyllic. We walked to school (St. Leo's) and Irvington High School. We walked "down the center" (downtown Irvington) to go to the Castle theater to see matinees or shop at Woolworth or other stores. Saturdays were high school football, Sunday was Pop Warner league football. Baseball in the summer.

The town had lots of recreation for kids -- summer activities in Orange Park and the other parks in town, pools in the parks, ice skating at the outdoor rink at Irvington Park in winter. As teenagers, we'd hitchhike up to South Mountain Reservation to get high and drunk at Hemlock Falls.

I mean, I'm probably looking through time and rose-colored glasses at it. But I do have some really good memories. My family moved to Union in 1976 because Irvington was just getting too run down and dangerous by then.

R53 James Gandolfini had charisma for days as Tony Soprano.

Ok, for the last time- you are too stupid to have a discussion about this with. The issue is NOT having black people in the show. It's having Harold depicted as a hero. It's having Dickie depicted as the one non-racist in the crew. It's superimposing 2021 values on the 1960s Sopranos.

Datalounge has become so vapid. Fucking free Britney.

Ummmm but a crew can have a non-racist… they weren’t the KKK r75

Harold wasn’t depicted as a hero….

I hope you’re all happy.

R75 has probably left the thread and is now headed to Starbucks in an attempt to calm his nerves with a pumpkin spice cappuccino.

R76, Dickie isn't just not racist- he's so pro-black, he defies Sopranos code.

Harold decides to create the black mafia after seeing the Panther performance art! Come on.

Lmao how is he pro black? Please. He killed a woman for fucking a “ni**er”.

You’re just making shit up. You see what YOU WANT to see r78

[quote] It’s superimposing 2021 values on the 1960s Sopranos.

I agree R75. I thought it inappropriate to cast Cardi B as a stripper at the Bada Bing!

He killed his comare for cheating on him- she received the fate ordered by Omarte.

He let the button boy live, he gave Harold $500 free and let him run, he let Harold insult made men in the club before he asked for the money...

Look, as a Sopranos devote, I was braced for Harold to be killed for these small offenses. I was shocked. And then I realized, "oh. This isn't trying to be a Sopranos episode." This is a 2021 fantasy.

Omerta. Apologies.

Maybe you'd call my dad "pro Black?" Because he had Black "friends" that he used to train with at the Parks & Rec gym, (boxing) and one time they went out to get a sandwich at a local dive and it was raining, and he walked into the place, but his Black "friends" couldn't, so he took their orders, got the food and sat out in the rain and ate with them. But then later he was a racist in his older years. I guess when you're all struggling and broke, and all young like 17, 18, 19, you didn't think about it until you got older. Racism is complicated. I asked my father and he said, "Everybody got along but you didn't mix; people minded their own business."

[quote]He killed his comare for cheating on him- she received the fate ordered by Omarte.

The ferocity of the reaction was because she'd slept with a black man.

R81 you were watching Dickie, not Tony. Get over it. Dickie was a lot more lenient than Tony was later, it’s life, we aren’t all the same. Period.

He was never close to Harold. Harold worked for him and he was fine with him. He let him go because he knew him. Clearly you missed other scenes like when they killed one of Harolds people leading to a street shootout. You’re picking and choosing.

R84 THANK YOU.

Dickie even got upset at the restaurant when Harold made a comment about fucking white women. But that loser didn’t notice any of that.

Like I said, he picks and chooses what he sees.

PS even in the 60s not every white or Italian or Jew or Irish etc. person was racist. My Grandmother was born in 1940 and never was racist, and she raised her kids to be the same. Her oldest daughter married a black man for Christ’s sake.

I know your small brain thinks every single non black person hated black people, but that’s not reality.

Early on Harold killed the young black underling because Dickie told him to get the kid under control.

Black or white, they’re all just hustling.

Thank you R73

Was it a very rapid changeover? What do you think caused it to go downhill so quickly.

According to Wikipedia the town is now 85% Black and suffers from a very high crime rate.

Looking on Google Maps, it doesn't look very slummy though--the houses are on the small side but it's not like there are giant projects and rundown apartment buildings.

[quote]The ferocity of the reaction was because she slept with a black man.

Perhaps R84, but don’t forget that Harold almost killed Dickie and they were engaged in a territorial struggle.

I think David Chase gave us a genius ending. It’s revealed to the audience that Junior had Dickie killed for a perceived slight. Dickie’s crew may believe it could have been Harold who killed Dickie or put out the hit on him.

Look. Why is it so complicated. Harold worked for Dickie. Harold was willing to do things Dickie didn't want to be bothered with. Mainly he controlled his people. Now if he were Italian and controlled his crew he'd have a leadership position. But he was Black so he was just like, and Overseer. A Black one. All Dickie wanted at the end of the day, was his money. And respect. Acknowledgement that he was in charge. He may have been lenient with him, or tolerant with him, because of extenuating circumstances. But Dickie always knew where the line was drawn and so did Harold. Dickie allowed Harold to strut up to a point. Harold pushed the envelope and eventually he died. But Harold always knew something Dickie's mistress maybe didn't think about: Harold knew if Dickie found out he was fucking his woman, he would die. First he would die for being Black fucking an Italian girl, Second because he was fucking another man's woman. Black or white he was gonna pay for that. This is not complicated. racists express themselves in all kinds of ways.

The film's BO didn't make the top 15 on its opening day while Evan Hansen was #3. And yes, I know it's on HBO!

Something's off with wherever you got your figures, R91. Deadline says Saints came in at #3 on Friday and Variety says it will be #4 for the weekend.

In retrospect, makes you realize what a feat the sex and the city movie pulled off. Although that featured same cast and no simul-streaming bs.

R92 Box Office MoJo for Friday Oct 1st. It's not listed in the top 15.

[quote] Plus, they flat out repeated lines/catch phrases and re-creations of memories from the original, which seemed lazy.

Your sister’s cunt.

{Plus, they flat out repeated lines/catch phrases and re-creations of memories from the original, which seemed lazy.}

You're talking thru your hat.

- Livia Soprano

And, as if anyone could ever forget it, Livia's "Oh, poor you."

But I wanted to hear Livia say "Oh, poor you." It triggered the memory and helped anchor the character in my mind. I don't think of it as laziness.

The change started in the early 1970s, r89. I don't know what the reason was.

I liked it fine but it should have been a limited series. It would have worked better.

In theory I agree.

in practicality, the cost to create the same quality is much higher on a series. Can't film actors or scenes from different episodes at the same time like you can for a movie.

It took me a little while to get into it because I kept trying to keep track of the original characters (I still get a bang out of Junior). But then I just got into the story and I ended up liking it although the ending left me wanting more, which is probably the point.

I want to discuss it but don't want to post Spoilers until more people have seen it.

Make no mistake, they want to make a series out of this. Not as elaborate as the original, but definitely they want more. This was to gauge the popularity, and reaction. I think they're satisfied it was successful. Now. Will they do a prequel to this prequel, so Dickie can be part of it? Or will they just move forward from the point where this ended.

R102 Knows Things You Don't Know.

Well, of course, HBO wants more. They wanted more the minute the original series ended. They just couldn't convince David Chase to give it to them. Now that they've signed him to a lucrative five-year deal, there will be more forthcoming. Though, as cantankerous as he is, he'll probably do some other things first.

The Sopranos creator David Chase has revealed that he'd be up for making another prequel movie, but only if he got to write it with Terence Winter.

"There’s only one way that I would do it, and that was if Terry and I could write the script together. That I would do," Chase said in a recent interview with Deadline. "A sequel to this movie you saw. In other words, what happens after this movie’s over, before the TV show starts."

Winter worked as a writer and executive producer on the HBO series. He wasn't involved with the upcoming prequel movie The Many Saints of Newark, but since his time on The Sopranos he's written for shows like Boardwalk Empire and movies including The Wolf of Wall Street.

Speaking more on another potential movie, Chase added: "With Tony in his 20s. That would be interesting to do, and there’s a lot of stories that exist already because of the mythology, and working with Terry would be great. He and I in that world again, I think we’d have a good time. I wouldn’t do it on my own, and I would not do it with anybody else. If Warners wanted it, they own it, they can do whatever they want."

[quote]Will they do a prequel to this prequel, so Dickie can be part of it? Or will they just move forward from the point where this ended.

I hope they'll treat Dickie like Jack on This Is Us, going back and forth in time, so we get to enjoy the presence of Alessandro Nivola, who was the best part of "Many Saints."

Man-hola Darghis gave Nivola a terrible review in the NYTs, but she mostly hated the stock character he was playing. She said he couldn't carry the film. Ouch.

I've always thought Nivola was a good-looking guy and serviceable actor, but with very little charisma. My opinion hasn't changed after Newark.

[quote]I've always thought Nivola was a good-looking guy and serviceable actor, but with very little charisma. My opinion hasn't changed after Newark.

He reminds me of an American Damien Lewis.

Most of you didn’t even know who he was before this movie, so stop.

I don't think it was Nivola's fault. He was excellent, but Dickie doesn't have enough of a through line to carry the movie. THat's why I didn't feel it worked. Tony might have been a good center, trying to stay out of the mafia. It would have worked much better. Even Harold had more of a through line, but then, that's a whole different film.

I don't know why Chase is still so obsessed with making movies. Long-form storytelling is where all the interesting and innovative work is these days, and he should recognize that as The Sopranos helped bring about TV's current golden age.

[quote]He was excellent, but Dickie doesn't have enough of a through line to carry the movie.

Dickie wasn't that interesting a character. The show should have been about how Tony's monstrous mother broke him.

I see a lot of Dickie’s influence in the adult Tony and I think featuring Dickie here was Chase’s intent to help explain the complexity of Tony’s character. Those who watched the show were already aware of Livia’s influence on Tony.

Ray Liotta was good as the psycho ranting about Mussolini one minute and douche bags hanging in the bathroom, another.

The NY Times review barely mentioned Michael Gandolfini

Honestly I don’t think that many people cared r116

Can you be good Catholics for fifteen fucking minutes?

I liked when young Carmela gave young Tony change for the pay phone. That was the last thing she ever paid for.

[quote] in practicality, the cost to create the same quality is much higher on a series. Can't film actors or scenes from different episodes at the same time like you can for a movie.

I think limited series are pretty much shot like a movie. For example on the new Netflix show Midnight Mass, one of the leads shot his death scene on the first or second day of production, and all the scenes set in a recreation centre location were shot back to back. They don’t have to shoot one episode then the next then the next like an ongoing network TV show.

Alessandro Nivola was too short for that gesture.

Stop trying to make Alessandro Nivola happen!

[quote]Ray Liotta was good as the psycho ranting about Mussolini one minute and douche bags hanging in the bathroom, another.

He was, but it was gimmicky to use him as his own brother. Plus, he always looks like he is wearing eyeliner.

R123 seriously. I was confused when Dickie killed one and then you see Ray in prison. Im like “I thought you were dead”

[quote]He was, but it was gimmicky to use him as his own brother.

I thought it was a bit too on the nose re: Dickie's search for redemption and a new father figure. But I like Liotta, so I really don't mind.

[quote] There was nothing woke about it. Stop using that word AS GAY MEN.

I’ll use whatever words I want.

I was thinking along those lines too R125. Dickie reached out to his uncle Sal in prison because he said that he wanted to do good deeds. Sal explained that the Buddhists believe pain in life comes from wanting things. I also think Sal somehow knew Dickie had killed his brother and the girlfriend.

One of the reasons that I hope David Chase gives us more is because I want to know if Tony ever went to see Sal after Dickie died. I don’t think Tony wanted the mob life, but genetics won out over morality. Could explain why he spent seven years with Dr. Melfi.

I know, it’s only a movie and that’s a stretch.

They did the same thing about using the same actor for twins in the show. The actress that plays Jeannie Cusamano also plays Joan Cusamano. The lawyer Carmela intimidated into writing a letter of recommendation for her "little daughter" to go to Georgetown. It is gimmicky. But whatever, I love the Sopranos and it's now Saints.

They also did it with the Parisi twins.

Junior has always been my favorite, he's so weird and grumpy. The part that made me laugh is when he was in bed trying to have sex and bitching about Dickie Moltisanti and his pain from the fall and his girlfriend said something like "anything to avoid a fuck". I liked that *SPOILER* he was the one that put out the hit on Dickie.

I thought Christopher was going to end up being the son of the mistress because Dickie said his wife couldn't get pregnant.

I also thought it was funny when baby Christopher didn't like Tony and kept crying.

I was disappointed in Silvio and Paulie. Silvio's wig stuff was kind of stupid.

Tony's 'OH' came from Dickie who said it just like him.

I'm re-watching the original series, and I'm in the middle of Season 4. Janice is a piece of work, baby. What a horrible human being. She is her mother on steroids.

Nice piece on Alessandro Nivola in the NYTimes.

For someone who was so stunningly handsome when he was younger, he has had a hard time getting to the top: this is his first starring role in a big movie. He has been kind oif entitled about it (he refused to audition for seven years, feeling it was beneath him given how much he's worked); at the same time, given that his wife is Emily Mortimer and his best friend is Ethan Hawke, I can understand how hard it's been to see them get lead after lead when he hasn't.

He hasn't aged that badly considering he's nearly fifty, but he is nowhere near the ravishing beauty he once was.

It’s a lot more than good looks to be considered a leading man, unless it’s looks like Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise

[quote]I also think Sal somehow knew Dickie had killed his brother and the girlfriend.

Nothing gets past you. He was practically SCREAMING that he knew that.

R138, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Did that come through LOUD AND CLEAR CUNT?

CUNT?! Wow! Now that's some wit right there!

Go write another complaint post about Ray Liotta’s eyeliner.

Then DROP DEAD.

My intent is not to be witty with you. I detest FAT FUCK LOSERS LIKE YOU.

R138 = Giuseppina‘s douchebag

Oh, orderlies! It's clearly well past time for r139's/r141's medications... but it looks like tonight he won't be taking them orally...

[quote] He was, but it was gimmicky to use him as his own brother.

It wasn’t written that way but they made a late change because they couldn’t make a deal with the actor they wanted. There had been other identical twins on the show so they carried on the tradition.

The whole idea behind the series was that for years David Chase wanted to explore the Newark riots through Tony Soprano's childhood. So this predates the wokeness that came in the wake of the Ferguson riots.

I was amazed at how beautifully Vera Farmiga and Corey Stoll were able to evoke (respectively) Nancy Marchand as Livia and Dominic Chianese as Junior Soprano. They're two of the finest actors working in Hollywood today, and they really showed why. Stoll was almost unrecognizable as Junior.

SP{OILERS

The funniest scene is when Livia is going into another of her annoying depressive rants in the car and her husband shoots her through her beehive (not hurting her, but making her shut up). The look Vera Farmiga gave him afterward was hilarious.

It sucks. If this had been the first episode of the Sopranos I never would have watched further, nevertheless watched for yrs and then binged on it again in 2020. I can't believe anyone would pay to see this in theaters.

I thought it was a bad movie until the last few minutes when it all made sense.

Ray Liotta is unwatchable now thanks to all that horrific plastic surgery. He looks demonic.

What was the significance at the very end of the lLeslie Odom character giving the movers that money?

I could understand Silvio having the same pompadour hairstyle he had on the series 25 years earlier (presumably he got it in the 1950s, and kept it for the rest of his life), but I didn't understand why Uncle Junior would be wearing the same eyeglass frames 25 years earlier. My optometrists never let me keep the same frames--they always make me change.

It's a weird movie. It would have worked better as a miniseries, OP, I agree. It seemed to be on one hand a movie about the evil of Dickie Moltisanti and how he is tempted to take this sweet but fucked-up kid into the Mafia, and then also it seemed to be checking all the boxes to set the stage for the series, with all the appearances by the DiMeo Family crew that will later work for Tony, manifestations of Livia's mental illness and her nastiness to Tony ("Poor you"), Janice's bad girl behavior, etc. I was at first confused to see that Tony and Janice had a baby sister, but then i remembered that they did have a sister on the show, Barbara, who lived elsewhere in NJ and almost never appeared on the show because she had nothing to do with the Mafia (unlike her siblings and mother and uncle).

It was slightly hilarious knowing how much David Chase identifies so much with Tony Soprano in so many things (especially their family situations--they both had abusive fathers and mothers with BPD) to then have the character be proclaimed both a genius and a future leader of men by his guidance counselor. What an ego.

It took Chase over a decade of his life to make this film; and though it's fine, it's nothing special.

[quote]My optometrists never let me keep the same frames--they always make me change.

Uncle Junior doesn't come across to me as someone who feels compelled to bend to the whims of service providers.

One of my favorite things about the Sopranos, was the character of Barbara, who would show up every once in a while, but had nothing to do with the family business. I thought that was fascinating. (not the actress herself, sjust the idea of her.)

R150, it used to be common to keep the same frames when I was growing up in the 80s. For some reason now they refuse to do it but it was always considered completely normal to ask to only update the lenses.

I had a conversation with my friend over the weekend about Junior. I thought in the movie they were trying to imply that maybe Junior was gay.

The two reasons why are 1. The scene at Vesuvio where they were ragging on Junior's then-girlfriend and Dickie made some comment about Junior not defending her (as if he did not really care for her). Any other mob guy (or man for that matter) would have been offended and even taken action and 2. The scene where he was in bed with his girlfriend and couldn't fuck her because his back was in the brace. She made a comment "anything to get out of fucking".

My friend shot it down, reminding me that in the series how Junior was pissed at Tony for telling everyone how much Junior loved to eat pussy.

I'm still holding on to my theory.

Junior definitely had issues with women, but what they are exactly was never explained.

Johnny Boy was such an absentee father it wouldn't surprise me if Jr was the actual dad of Barbra. He had all the time to mess around with Livia when Johnny was away in prison. Not Tony and Janice. With that explosive temper it was more johnny. But Barbra was smart and left. Something Jr would do. I dunno.

R111 Golden age?? Today?? Are you on drugs?! The only thing golden about television of the last 20 WAS "The Sopranos!" It has never been equaled and nothing comes close. Idiot!

Don't be triggered R158. I get our groups were marginalized but no need to get rowdy on an anonymous homo chat room

The biggest disappointment of the entire film, was Berenthal as "Johnny Soprano". Joseph Siravo defined the role, empirically, and this clown? Not anywhere even close.

I have a friend who has worn the same style aviator glasses since high school. They still sell the old styles if you want them, I am sure Junior wasn't wearing the same frames for decades. I still remember the episode where Tony's guys were laughing at Junior's glasses. I saw the series live each week on Sunday night, haven't seen it in years but still recognized some of the call backs in this series.

r161 again, I used the wrong term, I didn't watch it live I watched the new episodes when they premiered every Sunday night. I still am mad at myself for reading a Sopranos thread here where somebody posted a major plot line before the new episode aired and I am still ticked at that person for not posting a SPOILER before it. :)

The movie IS a two hour pilot for a series.

How were the ratings? The reviews were not that great.

r21, did you see the fucking movie. Because what you wrote makes no sense. There is no good guy blacks in The Many Saints of Newark. Live with the fact that black people exist and you might be alright in life. Jesus Christ.

I just saw it on HBO. I liked it. Initially I was confused and thought Dickie was Livie's brother, hence "uncle" to Tony but he wasn't his real uncle. I was watching like who is his Harold guy, he looks so familiar, it was Aaron Burr. LOL.

I wanted more. For sure a series would be great. I thought young Tony was so anti-Tony Soprano initially but then when you think about his going to therapy and how this really shouldn't have been his life, I get it.

Vera Farmiga was great as Livie. Spot on casting.

The Ray Liotta twin in jail was a bit huh, but I guess it was just his conscience. We could see he was torn and trying to make up for the people he killed.

My favorite character was the Italian girl but I knew she was a goner as soon as she stepped off the boat. The mistress characters are always my favorites.

Just a reminder that this movie scene exists...

Junior a hetero Bottom?

Yeah, R166. Dickie Moltisanti is Carmela Soprano's cousin..... that's why in Whitecaps, Tony tells Carmela, "you grew up around Dickie Moltisanti and your uncle Eddie."

[quote]And again I hate Livia Soprano. That woman is just miserable to the core. Just complains. Loved when Johnny boy shot at her hairdo! I rewinded several times lol

Vera Farmiga looked and sounded exactly like Edie Falco. I thought it was her at first. Maybe that's why Tony was attracted to Carmella but Vera took me right out of the movie every time she showed up..

I don't care for the more humanized (Carmela-like) version of Livia in the film, no matter how much I like Vera Farmiga. Livia is a fucking malevolent force of nature, and that's her role in the Sopranos saga. That's how she was in the flashbacks in the TV series as well, and anything else is a retcon.

Didn't get Paulie from Billy Magnussen. Had to look up who he is playing.

[quote] ovie. Because what you wrote makes no sense. There is no good guy blacks in The Many Saints of Newark

Oh dear.

Billy is definitely way too hot to be playing Pauley, but he did a more than admirable job playing a virtual caricature. Apparently, Tony Sirico recorded all his lines for Billy and he mimicked them. Also, I guess at one point Sirico was similarly built way back when. David Chase said it was the most difficult role to cast and he was very pleased with Billy’s work.

[quote] But I wanted to hear Livia say "Oh, poor you." It triggered the memory and helped anchor the character in my mind. I don't think of it as laziness.

Apparently that phrase said sarcastically was always David Chase's mother's nasty rejoinder to him when he was growing up, and he based Livia almost entirely on her (BPD and everything). So he had Livia say that all the time to Tony just as his mom had always said it to him.

[quote] I don't care for the more humanized (Carmela-like) version of Livia in the film, no matter how much I like Vera Farmiga.

I didn't read her in the movie that way at all.

I think Chase was making clear that except for the one moment in the movie she has always been a selfish monster. She had when the one moment of the h.s. counselor getting her to think that Tony really loved her when she had read him that story about Sutter's Mill, and she wanted to reach out for him. But because she's borderline, as soon during that speech as he did something she thought was in any way critical of or burdensome to her, she forgot her gratitude for her and returned to her constant bitter and depressed disappointment in him. But before the moment with the h.s. counselor, she was thoroughly nasty and discouraging towards Tony.