Michael Jackson‘s 1996 Interrogation on abuse claims

OP, one look at the man's plastic surgery and it's clear that he does not recognize or respect boundaries.

He abused those kids. And he was broke.

Those little brats lied so they deserve worse than what MJ was accused of.

I’ll rape you myself you lying cracker!

Even if he was innocent, he had to be a moron to hang out around with kids that young. I get never growing up but he set himself up for what was to come.

Creepiest celebrity ever. No one else holds a candle to this kiddie-diddling creep.

He was innocent. They tried to take him down because the industry hated him for trying to protect those boys from them.

Oh, R7, I feel sorry for you. Bless your lil’ heart…

The A-rabs thought he was a genie who could spin and rain gold down on them. When they realized that they'd been played- they had him killed.

R5. I could believe him up until the first accusation. After that no sane person (which he was not) would have the children of others sleeping over. But he was still sleeping with boys after he had his own kids? I also believed the testimony of Jimmy Safechuck, but not Wade. While I think MJ did it, I don’t think he was sane. Look at his face, his decision making abilities, relations with adults, etc. He was even further gone than Britney.

FREAK!

My asshole still hurts

Bubbles was suicidal

Micheal Jackson, an adult who suffered from extreme physical and sexual trauma as a child, built a house where his bedroom was at the end of a long hallway fitted with an alarm to let him know if anyone had entered. He regularly brought (exclusively male) children back there unsupervised, often the children of staff who were financially dependent on him. He had them sleep in the same bed as well whenever possible.

I think we can safely gather that OP is not a parent and not particularly worldly or bright. The bizarre idea OP puts forth is probably one of many ill thought out premises. Or he's just trying to evoke responses.

R14 agreed.

He treated Jimmy Safechuck like a girlfriend, traveling with him, spoiling him, bring him to awards shows. It's amazing now that he got away with that shit.

[quote] And he’s a “black” man. You know they wanted to take him down. They always do.

This is the biggest bunch of bullshit ever.

He finally admitted to the allegations after he died.

R17, I'm not OP but you're delusional if you think black people, celebrities included, are not treated differently in our society than whites who are accused of similar crimes. That doesn't mean Michael Jackson was innocent but that's just a fact of life. And just look at the way some people (I said some, not all) on DL have defended Woody Allen, Kevin Spacey, and Bryan Singer, yet their moral outrage never fails to click in at the mere mention of Jackson. And in threads about Jackson, he is routinely called "freak," "monster," "kiddie-diddler," etc. because he must be spoken of in the most dehumanizing terms possible while Allen, Spacey, and Singer are generally referred to only by their last names, even though, if guilty of the same crimes, they are no less a monster or kiddie-diddler than Jackson was.

This isn't a defense of Jackson or saying OP is right about his/her assertions. Just saying let's be real about the kind of world we live in.

People don't see color when they look at Michael Jackson. They only see a giant freak.

[quote] "People don't see color when they look at Michael Jackson."

How could they? There wasn't any left by 1996.

No no that’s ignorant

[quote] Woody Allen, Kevin Spacey, and Bryan Singer, yet their moral outrage never fails to click in at the mere mention of Jackson.

That's probably because those are all bad comparisons with the Michael Jackson situation. Michael would surround himself with COUNTLESS young (mostly) white boys all the time! Even after the sex abuse scandal! Again, it wasn't just one boy, he would regularly parade these boys around as early as the early 80s (when he brought that little boy to the Grammys). And this is a man psychotic and delusional enough to shake his infant child out the window to the amusement of a bunch of his fans and not think anything of it. Unlike the people you mentioned, Michael had NO grip on reality.

R23 why do you always need to point out the boys were white?

R24, this is the first time I posted on this thread. But I mention it because he clearly had a preference based on race...and it happened to be mainly white boys.

Whether they were white black or Asian shouldn’t matter.

His smiling and laughing in OP’s video is disturbing. He’s not even taking it seriously.

Some people smile/laugh when angry or sad.

Sweetie he admitted on film he slept with stranger's children. A grown red blooded sexual adult. The bullshit he never had a childhood was a diversion. Yeah, worked as a kid, recording and touring, flying first class and top hotels. He wasn't some child living on the streets. And we all get 13-14 years as a kid, he was 50 and still "acting" like a child.

[quote]...suffered from extreme physical and sexual trauma as a child

Joe Jackson was a shitty bully father but where do you get the sexual abuse? Link please.

I don't see how anyone could defend Brian Singer, knowing anything about him, but MJ was sleeping in his bed with little boys, young children. Not adolescents. Springer had parties where many teenagers were there because they made a decision to be there. Spacey was with teens who were as old as 18. So this is not the same as Jackson, he liked little boys.

Michael was very shy and self-conscious about being a black male pop star in a white-dominated industry. So he bleached his skin and whittled his nose down; got surgeries and relaxed wigs. And... travelled with little white boys. As long as he was with white people he felt he wouldn't be disrespected

He was around lots of little boys- including his own sons- but only a couple said he diddled them. Why?

The face!!!

[quote]He treated Jimmy Safechuck like a girlfriend, traveling with him, spoiling him, bring him to awards shows. It's amazing now that he got away with that shit.

It really is, people weren't as savvy about this stuff back then, and people weren't as cynical about celebrities either. Jackson was always with a young boy, and it was obvious they were on "dates," like two adults would be. It was so sick and he was hiding in plain sight.

I can't imagine any celebrity getting away with this kind of behavior today, people are much more aware of things now.

Please, if your neighbor was having slumber parties with 12-year-old boys you would call the cops ASAP

Stop giving Michael a free pass for shit normal people wouldn't get a pass for

He had books in his house that were full of pictures of nude boys. One was called "Boys will be Boys" and is frequently found in the possession of pedophiles

Exactly r34. Think of a grown man who lived in your neighborhood who always had young boys over to his house and was sleeping in the same bed with them. The cops would be called ASAP. Everybody would be shocked at such behavior.

He was attached to the hip with Macauley Culkin, they were always together for some time. It was like he was obsessed with Culkin. I remember people talking about that like "what's going on there?" at the time. This was before the first sex abuse allegations. People thought the Culkin thing was bizarre.

Culkin was as obsessed with superstar MJ.

[quote] I can't imagine any celebrity getting away with this kind of behavior today, people are much more aware of things now.

R Kelly got away with it for a long time, despite all the allegations, he won awards and sold a huge amount of records. Hopefully, these guys are why people are more aware now.

R Kelly is another example of how hard you all come for black people.

Years and years ago (I think around the time he went on trial) I was listening to a call in show on the radio here in the UK.

Obviously they were discussing the matter and some guy called in, entirely anonymously, and said that when he was 10 Michael Jackson tried to initiate a sexual conversation with him over the phone.

I can’t recall the exact details but the guy (then a boy) met Jackson backstage or something and gave him his number...he was a huge fan & was promised some merch, I think.

A few weeks later, Jackson called and the conversation quickly became sexual. The boy was confused rather than upset and a bit embarrassed so never told anyone. He said that because of this he completely believed that Jackson was a paedophile when the accusations emerged some years later.

I don’t think this guy has ever come forward and tried to “make bank”. It’s clear he was also a huge fan without any reason to “bring him down”.

I believed what he said and I believe that Jackson was more than an opportunistic abuser, but a paedophile who was incapable of sex with adults, gay or straight.

If he was alive now, I actually think he’d be in prison.

OP/R19, I posted at R17.

Your post at R19 is much more nuanced and of course there is institutionalized racism on many levels. What you posted at OP was quite different.

I do agree that some of the "artiste" white guys get a pass (Woody, et al). But there have been stories about many black musicians and people like Quincy Jones for years upon years, and they were neither cancelled nor destroyed.

I've heard this "they came after the black man" re both Cosby and MJ and I believe it's BS in both cases. But that does not negate the truth in much of what you said at R19.

OP, regardless of the fantasy world you live in, Michael Jackson did sexually abuse young boys.

[quote]R Kelly is another example of how hard you all come for black people.

Let me guess, you defend OJ and Bill Cosby too.

You have it all backwards. Society (and the law) is hard on regular black people. But wealthy, black male celebrities get away with a hell of a lot. Money trumps everything else in the US.

Wasn't R Kelly like 20 years ago?

OP = OFT Obvious Fucking Troll

Go away.

Michael Jackson defenders are the anti-vaxxers of the pop world.

I can see some of OP's argument - IF he's not saying R Kelly is innocent but rather, the law has come after him with more power and intensity than white men who have also raped and/or manipulated young women or men.

But yes, there will always be MJ innocence believers. Sadly. Most later-era MJ fans are just bat shit crazy.

R40, interesting story, but don’t radio stations plant call ins and hire actors as many of their callers? I’m always skeptical of radio talk shows.

[quote] R Kelly is another example of how hard you all come for black people.

Jesus fucking Christ, I hope you get your ass beat. Dumbass, believe whatever the fuck you want about your idol MJ but there is TONS of proof out there about R Kelly. For years, in Chicago, people knew what R Kelly was up to. There was no denying it. Do you also not believe he secretly married underage Aaliyah too?

R48 Why on earth would they do that? Hire an actor to seriously defame one of the most famous people on the planet? To what possible end?

I don’t know about the US, but I’m pretty sure that isn’t a thing in the UK. And it didn’t sound like an actor to me.

R48, if all radio stations hired actors to claim rich and famous people raped them, they'd all be out of business from the millions of lawsuits.

He did it.

This guy was disgusting. After laughing in this deposition he went home to molest some more boys. He clearly thought he was too famous and well liked to go to prison and the public would always believe in his innocence and he was right.

Kevin Spacey had over 30 people who were accusing him and 99.9 of them were over the age of 18 and went up to age 65. There is no pattern of pedophelia with him despite how the media made it seem.

There is no comparison to Michael Jackson and his 10 year olds.

What gets me is how kids in question said he had special terms for things-something like "bright lights, big city" for erection. I can't remember the exact phrase now, but he also called his crazy sleep cocktail "milk."

It was this pattern of refusing to acknowledge what he was actually doing, a way to distance himself from reality.

There is no way on earth that it is acceptable for grown ass adults to sleep with children of strangers.

I forgot that he gave the boys wine, too. Yes, he called it "milk" or "Jesus juice." It was obviously a way to make them more compliant.

He was a sick twisted motherfucker.

His nose! It looks as if it is half gone. Oh my God!

Xnyone have any knowledge and/or comments on his marriages to women?

[quote]And he’s a “black” man. You know they wanted to take him down. They always do.

Bitch, please.

Anyone

It’s bizarre to me that anyone can think a grown man just has these serial-“monogamous” relationships with prepubescent white boys where he treats them like they’re his sons or boyfriends and has them sleep in his bed with him, in his bedroom at the end of a long hall (that was wired with alarms to alert him that someone was approaching), and they don’t see anything inappropriate or OBVIOUSLY pedophilic about that?

The degree of cognitive dissonance required to believe nothing sexual was going on there. I can’t even fathom it. We’re talking about undisputed facts, not mere unsubstantiated allegations. This is is shit that Jackson admitted to. And these weirdos just ignore it.

How retarded do you have to be?

True r61. It was always one boy at a time, and MJ took each boy everywhere with him. Parties, trips, restaurants going to the movies etc. They were always holding hands and the boys were frequently seen sitting on Jackson's lap. It was the exact same dynamic as two adults in a romantic relationship or a marriage, all of it was extremely obvious.

He was a sick, disturbed man.

people believed the children and the abuse did happen. They did not like it the family allowed this to be an on-ongoing thing. The defense was the parents wanted this to happen. They let this happen to their own children. Mj sought out abusive parents because he knew he could get away with it. They would not protect their own child, plus they would not be able to explain themselves to a jury. He has more money and connection then the children. The children would have no where to turn for help.

Child Abusers and Child Sadists pick children from abusive families. The first line of defense is families members. If family members do not care about children or animals. it is easy to hurt them. It is this clear.

The only Jackson who has been honest, surprisingly, is La Toya.

People can say she was brainwashed by her ex-husband and coached to say certain things, but a lot of what she said rang true. In her autobiography, she told of an encounter at Phil Spector's house and it was eerily reminiscent of Lana Clarkson. She exposed her own mother as anti-Semitic which I don't doubt and her original comments about Michael didn't seem far-fetched.

Michael tried to present this ridiculous image of him as a tortured soul who had no childhood and that he only could relate to other children. All that nonsense about how he didn't have a childhood. So many of us missed out on our childhoods because we had shitty childhoods, were abused or bullied or were poor. But we don't go around as adults hanging out with children. Yet he had no problem stealing the Beatles catalogue from McCartney and he was a shrewd businessman when it came to contracts and royalties and getting paid. I mean, he built a fucking amusement park. Janet in Vibe Magazine said that he turned down her vocals on purpose on Scream. He made sure that he was referred to the King of Pop everywhere he went. He was manipulative. He surrounded himself with Yes people which only made his grooming and abuse easier.

I remember in 1993 watching the World Music Awards and seeing Jordan sitting on MJ's lap. It was the first time I thought, "that is creepy". He was the only one doing it and nobody around him though it was strange?

There was a reason Neverland was in the middle of fucking nowhere, with no neighbors around. Think about it.

That video is from the time when the tip of Whacko’s nose had rotted and he was wearing a prosthetic nose in public or sometimes a mask. They obviously had him remove the mask for the interview.

You know what disappoints about all the MJ relegations and allegations, is that there was one rumor that apparently has never been substantiated: that his higher-pitched speaking voice was an affectation and not his real voice, and that in private he spoke in his “real” voice which was allegedly much deeper and more normal.

Apparently that was false, as no one has come forward to substantiate it and no recordings have surfaced to support the claim. I don’t remember who said it, or when exactly it was, but it had to have been ~20 years ago now.

R65 He obviously wanted to get caught by 1993. Having young boys sitting on his lap in such a sexual way in the open public. His children-partners were accepted by the greater entertainment community at large. Part of him was deluded enough that he thought taking to the next step (showing obvious physical affection in public) would be tolerated.

I never believed a word of it.

R68 here are a couple of clips of MJ talking in his low (real?) voice

I think he was strange and stupid but I don’t believe he was a kiddy diddler either, OP.

R Kelly is another story. Not that the person who brought up R Kelly upthread isn’t trolling.

He touched me HERE!!! *shows asshole*

R58, Lisa Marie spilled her guts on Twitter in 2014 and said Jackson was a child molester before claiming she had been hacked. I don’t think someone would have randomly hacked irrelevant Lisa Marie’s twitter account account just to say that.

She wanted to get that shit off her chest after lying for so many years IMO. I hope she protracted her son Benjamin (killed himself in 2014) from him.

I meant Lisa Marie’s son killed himself in 2020.

"The degree of cognitive dissonance required to believe nothing sexual was going on there"

It's just because you have a dirty mind.

Michael didn't swear, take drugs, drink, smoke, sleep around... He was a Jehovah's Witness. But we're to believe behind closed doors he cornholed little boys?

It was all money, honey. The greedy parents planned lawsuits from the get-go.

r77, I hate to break it to you, but your non-drug addict died of a massive overdose.

I have never EVER, for the life of me, believed Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley’s marriage was anything other than a publicity stunt. I don’t know if he was using her (for her name), she was using him or they were using each other, but I didn’t believe one second of it.

R77, you’re ignoring all the red flags (some of which are way too blaring to be mere red flags, they’re more like emergency sirens). How can you? It does not require a dirty mind to see what was going on there.

People who don’t believe the allegations are like religious people who believe everything their church tells them. COGNITIVE DISSONANCE.

People who think MJ is innocent are the dumbest people that ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER lived.

EVER.

Can anyone think of ANY situation where a grown man went through a serious of *close friendships* with prepubescent or pubescent boys, who weren't related to him, where the grown man took the boys on trips, had them sit on his lap, bought them gifts, had the boys *sleep in his bed with him*, had an alarm system installed outside his bedroom so he could be alerted to someone approaching, and always ended the friendships when the boys got too old and replaced them with younger boys?

I mean, has there ever been such a situation before where molestation *wasn’t* at the heart of the relationships?

You’d have to be literally retarded to observe such a man and NOT think “he’s diddling those boys.” Any sensible person of even average intelligence would think something inappropriate was going on. It doesn’t require having a dirty mind, for fuck’s sake, it just requires a person to not be retarded.

MJ fans always use this excuse to absolve him of all wrongdoing:: "He just loved little children, he just wanted to create the childhood he never had." Actually, MJ's ENTIRE LIFE was "childhood." His whole life was playtime, getting his own way, getting cossetted and catered to. It was always what Michael wants, Michael gets. And what he wanted was young boys to have sex with. How can anyone NOT know that, with all information that's out there about Jackson's bizarre fixation on certain boys and his grooming of them and their parents?

[quote] R Kelly is another example of how hard you all come for black people

R Kelly’s victims were black too, but you obviously don’t give a fuck about them. There’s VIDEO of him pissing on a FOURTEEN-YEAR-OLD GIRL!!! But everyone’s against him because he’s black?

Fucking idiot!

Get real. Does this look like the face of a monstrous pedophile?

R79 Michael was the best sex I never had.

Michael Jackson was a duck.

[quote]Can anyone think of ANY situation where a grown man went through a serious of *close friendships* with prepubescent or pubescent boys, who weren't related to him, where the grown man took the boys on trips, had them sit on his lap, bought them gifts, had the boys *sleep in his bed with him*, had an alarm system installed outside his bedroom so he could be alerted to someone approaching,

If anybody knew a man like this IRL, the police would be called. All of those things are extremely abnormal behavior in an adult man.

r29 Joe Jackson (allegedly) stomped on Michael's balls when he was a teenager creating permanent injury. Maybe that is not sexual abuse. I heard this from someone who did expert work on a case against the jackson estate. Possible its not true. It was explained to me as truth, not just a rumor.

Normally i wouldnt share somehting like this on a board but Joe Jackson was a monster and he turned his kids into monsters. Fuck him.

[quote] Joe Jackson was a monster and he turned his kids into monsters. Fuck him.

True - monsters aren't born, they're made.

But still, MJ was a monster.

The thing I never get is: Allegations of misconduct/abuse were publicly known in what, the late 80s, early 90s?

And yet, parents would STILL let their children have sleepovers at Neverland.

R91, if you need any proof that people will ignore the evidence of their eyes and ears, look no further than OP. WHy do you blame parents of the 80s and 90s when millions of people around the world, in 20-fucking-21, still cannot see MJ as anything but a wooby innocent?

[quote] The thing I never get is: Allegations of misconduct/abuse were publicly known in what, the late 80s, early 90s? And yet, parents would STILL let their children have sleepovers at Neverland.

We live in a FAME culture. People will crowd around and scream when completely talent free Kardasians exits a limo simply because they are famous.

I'm sorry but with all of the allegations swirling about him, and all of the attempts to get him behind bars, if enough evidence existed for him to have been charged and convicted, then he would have been charged and convicted. As this thread goes to show, there are plenty of people out there willing to believe any prosecutor's version of events that would find him guilty. Did he pay people off so that allegations went away? Yes. All wealthy people do that. It's called a convenience settlement and they are perfectly legal. They cannot be used to prevent a district attorney or federal prosecutor from filing charges when evidence otherwise exists to file a charge. The fact that there is only one instance where files were charged indicates that, in the other cases, there was no evidence other than what the alleged victim was claiming. That's not enough. Furthermore, in the instance where he was charged and tried by a jury of his peers, he was acquitted.

The man was strange and you all don't like him because he was strange. I get it. Some of you have probably suffered sexual abuse and that has made you willing to believe the worst about a strange person who did strange, and yes, inappropriate things. Look, I think he was strange too. But there is no real evidence to support any of the claims that Michael Jackson abused anyone, at least not sexually. Emotional abuse is possible and perhaps even likely.

But seriously, you all need to get over this shit. He was tried and acquitted, and now he is dead and gone over a DECADE. He will never be charged again, which means it's over. Move on.

Of course there is evidence, you disingenuous fucktard, it’s the witnesses/victims who say MJ fucked them. That is the evidence. This isn’t CSI with DNA everywhere or fucking Columbo where the criminal confesses in the last frame

R95 that’s not evidence. That’s one person’s word against another’s. Not proof. Not evidence

R61 again, they were prepubescent boys. Their race had nothing to do with anything.

R96 you type pig-ignorant

Some of you are all just enamored of Michael Jackson and think he was angelic and special, the same reason he got away with this behavior in his lifetime. If it had been some more adult-acting or creepier looking rock star, or actor, you'd be all over him calling him a pedophile. Not a lot of people question Marilyn Manson being accused of grooming teen girls, for ex., because it's easy to believe he's a creep. And by the way, the idea that he was "discriminated" against because he was black, at least as a famous, grown man, is absurd. He was the idol of millions, every white girl's teen idol and crush, he had legendary movie star friends, like Elizabeth Taylor, and he was treated like a special, privileged human being every day of his adult life.

And nobody's mentioned how he held his kid over a balcony.

Nobody will ever know the whole truth. The parents of some of the kids certainly exploited him financially because the situation was too good an opportunity to miss. That said, what kind of adult man spends all his time with little boys? There is a name for it.

He didn’t abuse those boys, and by the way, it was their parents’ fault.

[quote]Of course there is evidence, you disingenuous fucktard, it’s the witnesses/victims who say MJ fucked them. That is the evidence. This isn’t CSI with DNA everywhere or fucking Columbo where the criminal confesses in the last frame

No, but it is the United States, and in our legal system, "he said/she said" doesn't cut it unless you have something more to substantiate it. That's my whole point. If there was any real proof of anything, he would have been locked up.

R95 you dumb twat, never heard of "hearsay"? It doesn't count as evidence, as R102 pointed out.

[quote]Lisa Marie spilled her guts on Twitter in 2014 and said Jackson was a child molester before claiming she had been hacked

That "hacking" seems to have vanished from the internet. Does anybody know the exact wording of the Tweet?

Oh my god, R103, you really are too dumb for words.

Fine, I'll play along, R95/R105:

Aretha Franklin gave me private singing lessons.

R56 - in my misguided youth I worked, briefly, as a paralegal while getting my graduate degree. I worked in Los Angeles at a law firm which was working with the LA Archdiocese and the top partners were good friends with Cardinal Mahoney. We had files and files of testimony from people who claimed they were molested all over LA county. Several of the accused priests were already in jail. A few had admitted to the abuse and two had committed suicide. These victims were people from various racial, ethnic and socio-economic groups who absolutely had no way to know each other or any way to know what others had said. Not to mention being years apart in terms of age. One common thread was the wine given to them, the obsession of the accused with all things related to children (amusement parks, toys, video games, etc.) and the incessant talk about wanting to be with the kids to be children and "pure" again. Ingratiating themselves to poorer families or single mothers was a tactic (they avoided families with a father and lots of siblings like the plague). Also, they said they had "no problem with celibacy" since they wanted to "be like Jesus". There is NOTHING about race here...I recognize this psychosis and it's symptoms and it fits MJ like a glove (no pun intended). Did he try to get help?

Mahoney and the Archdiocese went on to pay $60 mil to settle the case and they have now set up help for victims and, supposedly, much stricter screening and psychological counseling for the priests. Mahoney said he hadn't understood that pedophilia was a mental illness rather than a sin. His excuse for moving predators around.

r31, He started out at Motown though. Surrounded by hugely talented black performers and songwriters. Also, he was a decade late to have suffered perfoming during segregation like many Motown artists did.

He was also a morphine/demerol addict…..those drugs leave you pretty fucked up and I would expect boundaries were very blurry….

He was a disgusting pedo and his vile family enabled him.

I don’t agree that the testimony of the victims wouldn’t be enough evidence. If there are multiple victims who can be shown to have never met each other yet tell the same story that can be enough.

What evidence other than testimony was there against Weinstein?

There were r111

Watch the Leaving Neverland documentary

R10 I agree about Safechuck. It is abundantly clear he is deeply affected by what happened to him and is not lying.

Exactly what a dochebag must you be by defending a monster only because of his pigmentation.

i meant douchebag

[quote] [R96] you type pig-ignorant

Leave pigs out of this!

How did that expression ever come into being anyway?

[quote]If there was any real proof of anything, he would have been locked up.

O.J.?

Sad that he was so disturbed that he mutilated his face and committed suicide. But he wasn't dumb, and should have realized that what he was doing to so many young lives was unconscionable and sought help. I cannot listen to his music anymore, it makes me sad. and McCulkin's lying on the witness stand has caused him to become an ugly-faced heroin addict.

I don’t think McCulkin is still a heroin user.

R117 Yes, like O.J. and many war criminals in ex- Yugoslavia.

"Meanwhile Michael Jackson is freer than a motherfucker smelling like little boys booty holes. And I'm supposed to be excited."

I don’t get the Jackson apologists who demand “proof” how much hard proof is there in typical child sexual abuse cases? Like they want video evidence? I don’t get it.

All of the circumstantial evidences is proof enough for me.

I was really disgusted when the media Circus trial was going on. SNL did sketches about it. They didn’t do sketches mocking Jerry sanduskys victims did they?

[quote] He was around lots of little boys- including his own sons- but only a couple said he diddled them. Why?

That's like asking why every Catholic boy wasn't molested by a priest or why not every woman who met Bill Cosby was raped. Like every predator, Jackson surrounded himself with potential victims and then targeted the ones he thought were most vulnerable. Someone like Macauly Culkin was never going to be a victim because he had too much wealth and power of his own to be overly impressed by Jackson's celebrity. But an ordinary kid like Jimmy Safechuck is another story—and Jackson knew that. I think the word "grooming" gets tossed around a little too freely these days, but what Jackson did—buying the kids presents, whisking them to foreign cities, taking them to Disneyland, hosting sleepovers, etc.--was 1,000x percent him grooming them.

Well said, R123.

Christ, some people are fuckin’ dumb.

And OP has the same mentality as people who are defending war criminals in ex Yu. They also say: No, he could have never done this, there is not enough proof, the victims and witnesses are lying, only accusing him cos he is Srbian (Croatian, Albsnisn etc)

Why Emmanuel Lewis and not Gary Coleman?

And I despise more people who are defending an abuser more then the abuser himself. If only had the gutts to say they approve the deed and that a member of their tribe has the right to commit attrocities, no they are hiding behind: there is no sentence before the court of law. Law life worms.

He was 100% heterosexual, masculine and macho. He loved females and was absolutely not gay. There is proof!

Lisa Presley is mentally ill. Michael left her because she was a clingy nutter.

All the Jackson men have high voices.

This thread is infested with Parler rape trolls. They've been raped over and over and over. Everyone is a rapist and wants to rape them. At some point you have to wonder if it's a fetish.

So he’s innocent of all charges, R129?

R104,

The ex-wife of the disgraced pop star Michael Jackson has claimed that her Twitter account was either hacked or had been used by someone else after she appeared to suggest that her ex-husband had been a paedophile.A link to a Youtube video had been retweeted by Lisa Marie Presley’s verified account, stating: “If you care about survivors of child sexual abuse please re-tweet.”The Youtube video implied that Jackson was guilty of sex abuse against children, a crime he was charged with and repeatedly accused of during his lifetime. “That tweet was erroneous! Somehow someone tweeted it on my my behalf!” Presley said shortly afterwards.Later, she claimed: “Yes, my account was in fact hacked!!!”

I don’t buy for a minute she was hacked.

Not his best moment.

I remember in 2011 Tatum O’Neal was on Piers Morgan’s show and called him a drug addict. The Jackson family and fans were tweeting at her attacking her..

They admit that they had interventions for him so why are they so touchy about someone calling him a drug addict?

Wonderfully parodied on South Park, R132. The “Mr. Jefferson” episode was hysterical.

Michael Jackson was never known to have had intimate relations with an adult - male or female - in his entire life. The staff at Neverland all said that he never had an adult man or woman in his bedroom, ever.

I don't understand those who thinks he was framed because he was black. Why frame him this way? Why not just say he's gay? It was pretty much a stigma in the 1980's....why this particular thing? Please! Something was wrong and, long before the child abuse allegations came out, my uncle (a psychiatrist) said "something is wrong with this man...he will be a tragedy". And not because of his race...hell, he had enough black patients at Martin Luther King Hospital.

One person who saw/knew SOMETHING was Freddie Mercury. Sure, he gave his lawyer some cock and bull story about the chimp, different personalities, hitting certain notes ...but c'mon...we are talking about a man who could do all the crazy Mineshaft shit, have relationships with men and still maintain the love of his straight woman, and still perform while suffering from AIDS. He saw something that made him drop Michael like a hot potato and, I suspect, the one and only person still alive who knows what made Freddie bolt and come up with all kind of excuses is his old girlfriend. Too bad she will NEVER tell and his partner probably didn't dare go there.

What happened with Freddie Mercury? I didn't know he knew MJ.

R136, the “they framed him because he was black” people aren’t exactly our best and brightest.

r137, loon, stop trying to derail the thread into another Freddie Mercury discussion.

In 1982, I started a summer job near Atlanta. "Thriller" was going strong, I can't remember when it was released but it was everywhere on the radio that summer, not just that song but all the songs from the album. I had a woman co-worker, who must have been about 21 or so, very funny, brassy, smart-mouthed and talkative, but very sharp in her assessment of things. Since the album was so prevalent at the time, one day she brought up that she had had a summer job the year before, in 1981, as a desk clerk in Atlanta at one of the big hotels there, I believe it was the Omni, but I'm not certain about it. She brought up the fact that she had been working in the hotel the night that the Jacksons had performed in Atlanta that summer previously, their "Triumph" reunion tour. This was before there were any public allegations re Jackson's proclivity for little boys, so far as I remember. She said that after the concert was over, Jackson was staying in some portion of the hotel she was working in, where he had 3 floors of it to himself, staying in the middle floor, and the upper one and the lower one were sealed off to everyone else, empty and guarded by bodyguards. Jackson went to his rooms via a private or service elevator when he left the concert venue. Sometime after that, but before midnight, an employee of his brought in a small herd of what she described as "little boys", about 10 to 12 of them, and took them all up in the elevators to Jackson's floor. She was explicit that there were no girls, women or chaperone's with them. They were all up in the suite with Jackson all night long, and then they were escorted out sometime around 10 the next morning. She said the people in the hotel were pretty freaked out about it but nobody intervened, nobody knew where the kids' parents were, everyone just turned a blind eye. I am pretty sure I remember she said Jackson or somebody ordered a whole bunch of food for the kids, which had to be taken to one of the 2 empty floors and then delivered from there to Jackson's floor by his bodyguards. I'm sure it was all PERFECTLY normal...

Grown people don't sleep in a bed with 10 year olds. Anyone defending it is a pedophile.

That’s wild, R141. Hard to imagine pre-Thriller Michael Jackson doing it, only because the conception of MJ as a pedo came years later, when he was in full-on freak mode with plastic surgery and signature get-ups. The story has the ring of truth to it, though; I’m not doubting it at all.

I wonder what year he started fucking kids?

^The thing is, she brought it up because it was so weird, not because it corroborated anything that was already out there about Jackson at the time. She was a very sharp person, herself, and did not say explicitly what she thought Jackson was up to, but it was clear she didn't think it was on the up and up. She thought the kids were probably just kind of "street kids" and it was in the summer, when kids would not have had to go do school, etc.

[quote]Hard to imagine pre-Thriller Michael Jackson doing it, only because the conception of MJ as a pedo came years later, when he was in full-on freak mode with plastic surgery and signature get-ups.

I really don't think one thing has to do with the other.

His breath always smelled of sour milk and cough syrup.

R140 - what can I say? Beautiful Persian men make me crazier than I already am so when a conversation gets too long...my mind kind of drifts off to more pleasant things. Sorry bitch but MJ is kind of a dick wilter compare to a hairy ass.

[quote]I really don't think one thing has to do with the other.

I totally get that. I’m just saying one’s mental image of *pedo-Jacko* is so closely intertwined with his Bad-era (and beyond) appearance. There’s just something weird about imagining the normal-looking MJ of the Off The Wall era diddling kids. He looked like two different people from the late 70s to the mid/late 80s.

R141, I believe it. He pulled Jimmy Safechuck out of school to go on tour with him and they would share hotel rooms (and a bed) on the tour

R149 How old was the kid then?

"In 1982, I started a summer job near Atlanta. "Thriller" was going strong, I can't remember when it was released but it was everywhere on the radio that summer, not just that song but all the songs from the album."

Wow, you're a terrible troll. Thriller was released on November 30, 1982. It was preceded by the single "The Girl Is Mine" which was released on October 18, 1982. The rest of the singles were released in 1983.

But the summer of 1982 (June through August) the entire album was "going strong" in Atlanta. Wow, how'd that happen?

That Katt Williams set was brilliant and true.

^R151 It is quite possible that this happened in the summer of '83, and I got the years confused. We worked at the same place for almost 3 years together, both started in the summer of '82. I am not a "troll" and did not make this up in any way, nor did she, I am certain. I don't have it in for MJ, nor did she. We were also working in the same place on the Sunday (I am pretty sure it was) that Marvin Gaye was shot, because I remember hearing about it on the same radio where we worked. I did not listen to pop radio any other place than at that club we both worked at; did not even have a radio in my car at the time. It's a true story, I guess I just got it off by a year. After all, it was about 40 years ago...

I love Latoya. She doesn’t say Wade is lying at all. I hate that gross pig Kathy Hilton though. For attacking a CSA survivor and for forcing that valtrex whore Paris Hilton on the world

I've heard that there were rumors about MJ's proclivities in the late 70s/early 80s among plugged-in people in the industry. Pedophiles don't just start fucking children at age 30 or something. His sexuality would have been twisted from an early age, probably because Evil Joe pimped him out to record executives when MJ was a small child.

I don't see how ANYBODY could see a painting like this one, commissioned by Jackson himself, and not think there was something deeply wrong with the man.

Yeah this is a perfectly normal way for a grown man to pose with a boy he's in no way related to. WTF.

Seriously, if this was a man who was your neighbor and he posed like this with the unrelated kid of another neighbor on your street, wouldn't alarm bells go off in your head immediately?

Clips of Brooke Shields discussing him over the years.

I truly think HE didn't think he was doing anything wrong. He was that fucked up.

I just wanted to weigh in on the silly comments about whether eyewitness testimony is admissible in court (it is), whether hearsay limits the admission of out of court statements asserted as the truth (it does, but the exceptions to the rule eat the rule alive) and whether a jury can render a verdict with only a "he said/she said" type of evidence (yes, yes they can -- the jury weighs the credibility of the witnesses and makes a decision based on who they find more credible). There is a real moron on the loose in this thread and I needed to stomp out this particular distraction. Thank you for your attention.

^Hearsay is now generally admissible in court testimony unless the other side affirmatively objects. I'm an atty in GA and that's been the rule here for about 5 years. I *think* it tracks a change to the Federal Rules of Evidence, but am not certain. I do my best to stay out of courtrooms nowadays (it's a drag).

People who think MJ was an innocent victim are delusional. There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence as well as the tortured testimony of two adult victims AND LOOK AT THOSE FUCKING PAINTINGS. He was a pedophile.

Jackson was probably abused as a child and that's sad, but not every victim of sexual abuse becomes a predator themselves. Jackson chose to use his money and power to victimize others as he had been victimized. He was a monster, plain and simple.

R94, why was a grown man sleeping in a bed with prepubescent boys (always boys), who he had no relation to?

Why was the bedroom at the end of a hallway with an alarm to alert him to anyone approaching?

Why was he letting these boys sit on his lap IN PUBLIC?

If you had a kid, would you let him have such a relationship with a stranger?

[quote]Why was the bedroom at the end of a hallway with an alarm to alert him to anyone approaching?

Apparently a fan got into the house at Neverland and gained entry to Jackson's bedroom. He had a security system installed after that incident.

[quote] That Katt Williams set was brilliant and true.

It was beautiful, and addressed a LOT. We haven’t even gotten into how he obviously bought his kids.

[quote] His sexuality would have been twisted from an early age, probably because Evil Joe pimped him out to record executives when MJ was a small child.

I believe that exactly what happened; probably around the age of the boys he molested. That seems like a pattern with many pedophiles.

[quote] I truly think HE didn't think he was doing anything wrong. He was that fucked up.

He went to a lot of trouble to hide stuff for someone who didn’t thing he was wrong.

[quote] Apparently a fan got into the house at Neverland and gained entry to Jackson's bedroom. He had a security system installed after that incident.

Fair enough. And the other questions?

If I were pinpointing Jackson's abuse, I'd say it happened around 1970. If you look at performances from '69, he's joyful and loving what he's doing. By the 70/71 performances, he's still talented as hell, but the light in his eyes is gone.

The '69 clip from Ed Sullivan is linked.

He had "art" books featuring pictures of nude boys

I don't have answers to the rest of your questions, R165, but it occurs to me that some of Jackson's odd behavior might be attributed to his being on the autism spectrum. As a teenager he did not seem to have friends his own age. He preferred the company of animals rather than people or preferred being on his own. He was very high-functioning in terms of performing and his musical ability but socially he was apparently awkward and withdrawn. Obviously this is merely speculation on my part but he does ping my Asperger's-dar.

[quote]Even if he was innocent, he had to be a moron to hang out around with kids that young.

He didn't just "hang out" with them, HE SLEPT IN THE SAME BED WITH THEM.

Why his obsession with scat and "doo doo"?

Did “AncientWhiteFags” post here yet?

By 1990, I had realized that all his relationships with women were fake, and I hadn't heard any indication that he was involved in gay life, and he didn't even seem to have any good-looking male friends or hangers-on. There was no hot personal trainer or PA, no shadowy hidden-in-plain-sight boyfriend, as you'd see with a typical closeted celebrity.

Instead, he spent all his time with little boys, he even took his favorites to public events, and posed on the red carpet with them! It took me a while, but I eventually figured out they were really his dates.

A woman whom Jackson befriended recorded his phone calls whenever he called her to chat. (I think the audio files have been uploaded to YouTube.) One thing that struck me is that Jackson didn't evince much interest at all in her kids during these conversations. The woman included her children on some of the phone calls and while Jackson sounds polite and affable towards them he seems to have been more interested in her. Mostly he just comes across as extremely lonely, bored, and isolated.

[quote] I don't have answers to the rest of your questions

And I respect a lack of bullshitting, but there’s an awful lot of smoke for there to be no fire. As others have pointed out, behavior after behavior screams ‘pedophile!’ I don’t WANT it to be so, because I’m old enough to remember him for the seventies, but I can’t deny all I saw.

[quote] Even if he was innocent, he had to be a moron to hang out around with kids that young.

And this was AFTER his first accusation.

Even if he never touched those kids the very fact he wanted to have sleepovers with them is over and above bizarre and creepy. More creepy of course we’re the parents allowing it.

[quote]Instead, he spent all his time with little boys, he even took his favorites to public events, and posed on the red carpet with them! It took me a while, but I eventually figured out they were really his dates.

It's all so plain as day in retrospect. I think today, the general public are much more aware of this sort of thing as they were back then. Also, in today's digital/social media world I think it would be impossible for someone to get away with it like MJ did for so long.

[quote]) One thing that struck me is that Jackson didn't evince much interest at all in her kids during these conversations. The woman included her children on some of the phone calls and while Jackson sounds polite and affable towards them

A pedophile is unlikely to make any kind of move until he has the family's complete trust. Michael went undetected for decades because he moved slowly, carefully selecting the families where he knew he could pry the kids away from the parents with the promise of a lavish lifestyle.

Not to mention the way that weirdie died!

Pedophiles don't fuck every child they meet. "Well, he never abused ME" isn't the slam dunk some people like to think it is.

[quote]His sexuality would have been twisted from an early age, probably because Evil Joe pimped him out to record executives when MJ was a small child.

Where besides here did you hear that?

R138 he know MJ since apparently Michael was a fan and went to see him perform when he went to LA. According to Freddie, he invited MJ out to a nice lunch and backstage where his ex boyfriend and ex girlfriend were also guests. Talked about recording together and all was swell. For some reason, Freddie's lawyer got a frantic call from Freddie who was with Michael to "get me out of this zoo!". Freddie said MJ kept bringing his llama and Freddie said he couldn't record with a bunch of animals all over. However, some of Freddie's friends said he freaked out because MJ was "totally different than what he thought". MJ's camp spread a story that MJ had seen Freddie snorting cocaine through a dollar bill and it went against MJ's belief system. Others say MJ became jealous that his voice was no match for Freddie's. In a later interview when some lady journalist pestered him, Freddie just said "well...MJ is an introvert and likes to stay in and that's not me"...kind of desperate to change the subject. So you KNOW something went down.

Also, sorry to R140 but, to be fair, this is about MJ being a weirdo and nobody as worldly or as dedicated to music as Mercury runs like that...didn't run from Bowie or anyone else. MJ, on the other hand, did something so unacceptable that he bolted.

If you read Michael Jackson’s Rolling Stone cover story from the early 1980s, they followed him to a Queen concert. He was a huge fan of Freddie Mercury and they recorded the original version of “State Of Shock” together but Freddie was replaced by Mick Jagger because Freddie overpowered Jackson.

Mick jagger is only an icon to white boomers while Freddie Mercury is timeless and will be remembered for generations to come.

Oh for crying out loud are you people blind as well as stupid?

How did far right at the front get in this? 🤔

JFC r183 that pic is disturbing.

"to be fair, this is about MJ being a weirdo and nobody as worldly or as dedicated to music as Mercury runs like that...didn't run from Bowie or anyone else. MJ, on the other hand, did something so unacceptable that he bolted."

Oh for fuck's sake, if Freddie and MJ didn't become friends or keep working together, it's not necessarily because MJ did something horribly disturbing. Jackson could have been disapproving of Mercury's drug use or his consenting adult men (plural), or Jackson could have been weird to work with, or they realized they didn't sing well together or that they just didn't like each other. Or the llama story could be true, who the hell can concentrate with a huge fucking llama in the recording studio, pooping on the floor and trying to bite anyone who gets too near.

What probably didn't happen was that Jackson did anything inappropriate with a child. Mercury wouldn't have had any children around for Jackson to bother, and at that point, I don't think Jackson was openly dating his little favorites. I don't think he started with that shit until the mid-80s.

R186 - honey this was in late 1983 at MJ's home. It was MJ who went to Freddie's concerts and no way he didn't see that Freddie was gay and that there was drug use (and, as per Freddie's last long-time partner, there was far less than in other bands). He should also have just LOVED the proper blonde ex girlfriend Freddie was always with. You may be right about the animals or the fact that it wasn't necessarily kids, but SOMETHING was off. Also, I am a bit on the fence about MJ actually having sex with his accusers, but I also think there is something very odd about the whole thing. Look at how Lisa Marie also bolted.

How can you be on the fence about him having sex with his accusers? How is there any doubt? That puts everything you’ve said about him and Mercury into doubt, frankly, as it shows you have questionable judgment.

R187, by 1983 Mercury wasn't with his nice blonde girlfriend, she was his PA by that point, and he was living a wild gay life that included a "bed that sleeps six comfortably" (or was it eight), and devotion to the sex clubs of Munich, so it's entirely possible that the prissy Jackson was disapproving. But who knows, maybe they didn't like each other or just didn't work well together.

I just doubt that Jackson did anything inappropriate with a child when Mercury was around. Jackson was smart enough to keep it quiet or to at least maintain plausible deniability when he was around people he couldn't trust or buy off. So who the hell knows why Jackson and Mercury didn't hit it off, but I'd call Jackson being inappropriate with a child one of the least likely reasons for the quick breakup.

Jackson did not like gay men.

Mildly ironic if true, r190, considering it may have been a form of self-loathing. The abuse didn't come from nowhere, and there was probably a longer pattern of it than the public is aware of, but I did hear about some relationships with adult men. (Example: a close bond with Clifton Davis that was so close and gossiped about he was forced to issue denials in JET was apparently more than rumor, at least according to industry people whose word I trust. Tina Turner also dined out for several years, though not publicly, on a story about how a woman went down on him for an hour at Studio 54 and couldn't even get his soldier to stand at attention, but a male bartender took over and he was done and dusted in two minutes.)

Based on statements he made (in his book with Jackie O and elsewhere) about telling gay people to read their Bible, I would assume religion-based repression (JW's and all that shit) put an end to -- or at least a damper on -- his adult relationships. As for the kiddie fiddling... don't know where it started, but I wish for his sake it never had.

Michael Jackson was a pedophile of epic proportions. Michael Jackson would carry Emmanuel Lewis around like his pet. Man went to the Grannies back in his big Grammy year with a beautiful Brooke Shields and Emmanuel Lewis. Who the fuck does that? Any non pedophile would have been all over Brooke Shields back in her full bloom of late teens/ early 20's beauty. Michael Jackson was all about Emmanuel Lewis. Come on!

Freddie Mercury was his own dude. He went to boarding school so he might have had a sixth sense as to Michael Jackson being a perverted freak. Freddie saw something and he ran away from a big opportunity (I guarantee you all they would have had an instant number one hit) but since he was his own dude he probably didn't give a damn. I miss Freddie Mercury, one of my younger brothers is a huge Queen fan.

Michael Jackson, though, my God. It was all in plain sight. He would travel with little boys dressed exactly like him. The whole sharing the bed nonsense, he lived in a fucking mansion and had plenty of room! Come on.

Freak! Every dog gets its day. Watch the video OP linked to. He both knows what he is and is somehow oblivious to it at the same time. Guilty as sin! Anyone else would have been cursing, crying, and pleading to do whatever asked to have their name cleared and obey the inquiries from law enforcement 100% of the way. Michael Jackson is rolling his eyes, giggling, and refuses to answer some questions.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, R192, a normal guy would be terrified and crying under those circumstances because he knew that even an accusation of pedophilia would ruin his career, his marriage, his friendships, and his relationship with his children. Jackson was rich and famous, or at least hugely famous, he would believe that his money, fame, and connections would protect him, as indeed they did.

Sure, his career was damaged, but by that point he was so weird that the mainstream was already finished with him. And his loyal fans wouldn't believe there was a problem if he put videos of him butt-fucking an 8-year-old online, so no. Jackson wasn't as fussed as most people would have been.

I never heard that Tina Turner story before? Obviously, it was something she only talked about in private.

r194, well, it was public enough to sneak out later as a blind item. I recognized it right away when I read it on one of those blogs.

Tatum O'Neal told a story about how when she and Michael were both teenagers she invited him over to her house (they were both alone in the house) and blatantly tried to seduce him. Jackson got scared and left. He obviously had no sexual interest in females because and straight teenage boy would've leapt on her in a second and torn both their clothes off.

Because ANY straight teenage boy. Sorry for the typo.

Jackson was the ultimate groomer. He groomed the whole world in order to abuse kids.

He set himself up as the “Peter Pan of Pop”...the child in the man’s body who’d had his childhood stolen by stardom. All he wanted was to be a boy again...play, have fun & love children as they should be loved. Of course he only wanted to be with children - their innocence consoled him. Blah blah.

And it worked. It worked so well that there are even cretins on this thread 20/30 years later still giving him a pass.

I don’t doubt his childhood screwed him up, but he was still an adult man who wanted to fuck little boys. He knew it was wrong and he did it anyway. Fuck him.

Lots of people had fucked up, abusive childhoods but they managed to become responsible adults who didn't fuck kids. There are no excuses for Jackson's behavior.

R176 that picture is so creepy. It's like having a mannequin in your bedroom.

Trumpers can't compare to Jackson apologists.

I just watched the video at OP for the first time and Jackson comes across as incredibly creepy and severely emotionally disturbed.

Who is the racist asshole who is saying that Mick Jagger is only an icon to white baby boomers? That's like saying Aretha Franklin is only an icon to black baby boomers. So pathetic and moronic.

203 He is not only racist but a complete idiot, too

Why Emmanuel Lewis and not Gary Coleman?

Coleman was too old for Jackson.

Those in power knew what was up with Jackson. He was desperate to visit the sets of the first couple of Harry Potter movies, but Chris Columbus and the other execs gave a resounding NO to that. That's all they needed, their Harry or Draco getting traumatized by creepy MJ.

I remember reading how desperate Jacko was to meet the male cast of Harry Potter. He even extended a personal invitation to Dan Radcliffe to come visit his home but producers put a halt to that real quick.

By the time Harry Potter was being made, Jackson was a freak curiosity and the popularity he once had was over. It wasn't the 80s anymore and nobody in the industry wanted him around.

If his name was Michael Johnson he'd already be in jail.

R188 - because he was such a mess that I hardly know if he was capable of sex as we understand it. Maybe exposed himself or God knows what other oddity...but I get a distinct asexual feel about him. As if he was pedophile-adjacent...actually, impotent tbh.

Leaving Neverland goes in to graphic detail about the molestation.

You can’t tell me Jackson had a normal sexual relationship with wife Presley.

[quote] You can’t tell me Jackson had a normal sexual relationship with wife Presley.

Of course he didn't. I think women's bodies repulsed him. When he was younger Tatum O'Neal was his "girlfriend." She said he had no interest in sex at all. Well, no interest in sex with females, that's for sure.

Nobody ever knew of Michael Jackson to have had sexual intercourse with a woman.

Yet, I’ve seen Presley interviewed about Jackson and she’s stated their intimacy was normal.

I remember standing in the supermarket checkout as a child and one of the tabloid covers said: LISA-MARIE: MICHAEL WAS “LIKE A SCARED LITTLE BOY” IN BED.

Lisa Marie is lying. Neverland staff said they never shared a room together.

From 1995 during their marriage. This is 1 year after OP’s video.

His nose looks so much more normal here.

Brooke Shields also make a play for him and got rebuffed. No straight man would have turned her down in the early 80s.

Any straight man on Earth would've crawled through broken glass to fuck Brooke Shields in the early 80s.

I think if Michael Jackson had lived there eventually would've been another molestation trial. He wouldn't have stopped.

I should have written the Diane Sawyer interview was one year BEFORE the interrogation one.

OP is the notorious Train Station Troll.

'And in threads about Jackson, he is routinely called "freak," "monster," "kiddie-diddler," etc. because he must be spoken of in the most dehumanizing terms possible while Allen, Spacey, and Singer are generally referred to only by their last names, even though, if guilty of the same crimes, they are no less a monster or kiddie-diddler than Jackson was.'

Nope, Jackson was the most prolific pedophile in modern history. He is also the most defended pedophile in modern history. You'd be hard pressed to find a black person who thinks that he's guilty. It's OJ Syndrome and it's all over this thread too.

None of us will ever know.

R217 I was the scared little boy in their bed.

No way Safechuck and Robson made all those things up. They couldn't have.

[quote] Brooke Shields also make a play for him and got rebuffed.

Not exactly. I don't think she ever tried to have sex with him, but she DID want to be seen with him. In LaToya Jackson's memoir she talked about how Shields kept calling Michael, begging him to take her to the Grammy awards. At the time he was one of the most popular entertainers in the world, and I guess that was the attraction; she wanted to be seen at the side of MICHAEL JACKSON! He didn't want to take her so Milquetoast Michael asked LaToya to get her to back off. But LaToya said no, it's your problem, deal with it. He finally relented and took her as his date...along with Emmanuel Lewis, who he carried in his arms. They were a ridiculous sight; at one point Shields cried out "They're making fun of us!"

At some point it dawned on Jackson that having a high profile "girlfriend" like Brooke Shields might be a good thing, publicity-wise. So they became a "couple." But it was no romance; it was just a 'loving friendship." Eventually she distanced herself from him as he became more and more bizarre and the sexual molestation accusations started to heat up. They hadn't had anything to do with each other for years, but she popped up at his televised memorial service to eulogize him. She pretty much always used him (and he used her, too) to promote herself. I always thought her pursuit of Jackson disgusting and their charade of being romantically involved a detestable hoax. But some people actually fell for and thought she was his "girlfriend." How naive or stupid can you get?

Michael Jackson stole my song, says Paul Anka...

R189 - actually if you see pictures of him at that time in professional settings, his nice and very wholesome ex was always a step behind with a pad and pen and carrying his essentials and, essentially, taking care of him as one of his partners said "like a mother". Also, his first male partner who was now an ex and friend of his and Mary's. No way did Mercury take his orgies to Mike's house or to the recoding studio where his bandmates (all straight with wives in tow) would've been. Clearly, something was wrong with Michael...his home was suspiciously full of kids he took long as his date which, as R192, pointed out, may have triggered Mercury. Remember his hag from the Munich days claimed Freddie had been molested, though, of course who knows how honest she was. In any case, who in their right mind, shows up holding a kid's hand on the red carpet? And if you read comments....amazing how many people are so blind. Something was off...big time. Poor Liz Taylor was probably senile or stupidly naive and Brooke wanted attention. Otherwise, no normal person wouldn't notice a problem.

Michael was ruthless in his business dealings. Look what he did to his friend Paul McCartney, outbidding McCartney for the rights to the Beatles' catalog, which he then licensed to sell sneakers and such so that he could buy more tacky urns. In Michael's world, only his desires mattered and fuck what anybody else felt about it.

He was predatory in all aspects of his life.

R231 all it took get Liz’s attention was to buy her expensive jewels which he did,

Liz Taylor said he was the "most un-weird" man (man?) she'd ever known. Which proves she was an idiot.

I remember an interview with Michael where he was condemning people who had sex with children. The interviewer asked him, "what do you think should happen to such people?" The question took Michael by surprise, and he eventually stammered, they...they should get help!"

R235, what he meant by that statement was "they should get help....I'll give 'em a hand!"

Liz discusses Michael.

R173 He wasn't interested in TALKING to children.

Although he definitely might've targeted women with kids to be friends with

I agree with OP!!!

R216, she has also claimed she was "used" by him

I'm not sure she's the most reliable source. If he had any interest in women you'd think he'd be all over the young Brooke Shields, but....no

There were rumors about Michael and Rockwell (Berry Gordy's son)

Michael Jackson was all about LOVE. Pure LOVE.

Michael (whispering) - Hey Freddie, let me tell you a secret. Guess what, I'm gay too like you.

Freddie - Really, man? Have you got a boyfriend?

Michael - Yissss, a boyfriend who's so young and beautiful, Freddie.

Freddie - You old dog! What - he's 18, 19?

Michael - No, Freddie - he's ten years old. Please don't judge me now.

Freddie - You fucking sick bastard. I'm going to assume you're joking, but if I find out that it's true, I'll be making this a police matter. (leaves the room)

Well yeah, that's kind of how this shit world works. Iditos live forever and nice guys like Frddie and his ex suffer. And, I don't care that he was weird. Hell, be as weird as you want...I'm from LA and weird isn't even an issue. The real issue is that he was a predator. Weird in other ways would be no problem compared to that.

Elizabeth Taylor was such a fool. Especially in old age. She looks like a dead Nancy Reagan at R237. Nancy had more sense to be honest. I do admire loyalty, but Taylor's explanation that she never saw anything "touchy feely" with Jackson and young boys displays a shocking lack of understanding of what child molestation is, and how perpetrators operate. Jackson was classic, on a grand scale.

Streisand said something just as insensitive about his victims when Finding NeverLand came out. These "GAY" icons are both terrible, spoiled, stupid, self centred women. They breathe rare air. Liz and Michael bonded over their terrible childhoods. We've heard that many times. And the Jackson kids DID have terrible childhoods. She's just such a foolish old woman in that clip at R237. Age lent nothing to Elizabeth Taylor. It was the complete thief of her beauty, intelligence and whatever sense she had. And don't give me the AIDS bullshit. She showed up twice a year and made a speech. She showed up many more times a year to accept awards and accolades for her "bravery" and humanitarianism. She was a fag hag. She stood up for her fags. The ones she knew.

MJ was never convicted - he paid off his victims. Liza and Liz defended him. Case closed.

[quote]Liz Taylor said he was the "most un-weird" man (man?) she'd ever known. Which proves she was an idiot.

Or she just knew a lot of weird men.

I know this is a little off topic but I always thought this was weird, 19 year old shirtless Justin Bieber partying with all these older rappers.

Yeah it's weird how anyone can claim that MJ is definitively pedo or not.

As if Liz was welcome in the bedroom he shared with boys. Lol.

R247 Pass the chicken. Eat your heart out MJ.

Liz Taylor was a child star, coddled and exploited from an early age. Her sense of values would have been incredibly skewed, anyway.

"Yeah it's weird how anyone can claim that MJ is definitively pedo or not."

Yeah, we'll never know the whole truth. If he was a kiddie diddler and I think he was, he was a very smart one, he was one who chose victims who wouldn't be believed because their families were greedy, got others to cover for him, and used the power of the mass media and the idiocy of fan love to his advantage.

But yeah, I think a man who takes little boys on public dates is putting it right out there in plain sight, and no, I don't believe that Jackson was just trying to innocently experience a belated childhood. He was an adult man with adult testosterone levels (he had a deep voice in private), and who never showed any interest in adult women or men. Either he was genuinely asexual or he was a pedo, and what the hell kind of asexual always has an unrelated little boy aged 8-12 in tow.

Neverland was a pedophile's dream house. A zoo, an amusement park, a movie theater with a huge snack bar, etc. Jackson spent all his time with boys and doing activities that children like. He didn't hang around adults and had no interest in adult things. He took boys into his bedroom overnight and had a fucking alarm at the end of the hallway to alert him when someone was approaching. He was a sick, vile person.

Exactly R252. These created environments were not all some coincidence nor explained by a missed childhood. Michael Jackson was a sick fuck. With his Willy Wonka Jesus Juice House of FUN!! He had near unlimited power and powerful enablers. He's the Jeff Epstein of male hebephilia.

And Neverland was also way out in the middle of nowhere with no neighbors around. He deliberately chose that property because he wanted to be isolated with the boys.

How can people say “we’ll never know” if he was a pedo? We have adults on the record describing in excruciating detail what he did to them. Of course we fucking know.

R138 it was a messy affair…

[quote] Queen’s manager Jim “Miami” Beach, remembers getting a frantic call from Mercury during the sessions. “Freddie said, ‘You have to get me out of the studio’,” Beach said on the documentary The Great Pretender. When the manager asked why, Mercury reportedly said, “Because I’m recording with a llama. Michael’s bringing his pet llama into the studio every day and I’m really not used to it and I’ve had enough and I want to get out.”

[quote] Other reports say that Jackson wasn’t pleased with Mercury’s reported use of cocaine in Jackson’s home. (Elton John also confirmed Mercury’s tendency for drug use, admitting, “Freddie Mercury could out-party me, which is saying something. We’d be up for nights, sitting there at 11 in the morning, still flying high.”)

R255, people use that line (“we will never know”) to protect sexual abusers. It doesn’t come up when they talk about any other crime.

[quote] And the Jackson kids DID have terrible childhoods.

Define "terrible childhoods".

"[R255], people use that line (“we will never know”) to protect sexual abusers. It doesn’t come up when they talk about any other crime."

Tons of people say "we will never know" about other crimes, like the Jack the Ripper spree or the Black Dahlia murder, or all the dead people at the Dyaltov Pass, or the identity of the Zodiac Killer, etc. The world is full of other crimes where anyone with sense knows we'll never know the real truth.

As for using that line to protect abusers, well, I'm about 99% sure that Jackson was a pedo.... but as he never molested me I can never be absolutely 100% sure.

part of the reason we attach the ‘freak’ monicker to Jackson was his un-ironic use of cosmetics and cosmetic surgery to alter his appearance to a creepy skinny clown. The heavy kohl-lined eyes, pasty make-up, shriveled nose and lips, cleaved chin, and wet looking Jheri hair were unsettling to most people. It was almost like he was trying to be a member of Kiss. Add the childishly affected speaking voice and odd daywear.

Don’t be disingenuous, pedophile apologist at R259. We know all those people were murdered or died. Sexual abuse is the only crime where victims and society at large are gaslighted about the existence of the crime.

Well Tik Tok has a disclaimer

[quote] I'm about 99% sure that Jackson was a pedo.... but as he never molested me I can never be absolutely 100% sure.

Speaking of dumb logic...

R263 Its the same logic as "Hitler have never put me in a concentration camp"

R264, exxactly. Fucking moronic.

Well, to be fair, we do have pictures and videos of people put into camps and his stamp of approval regarding his thugs' plans at the Wannsee Conference. No video or anything other than hearsay with MJ. However, the testimonies and his behavior in public with kids pretty much convince me. Yeah, of course nothing is sure in this world until you see it with your own eyes...hell, if you wanna get that philosophical you can also say that you don't 100% know that life isn't an illusion. But, guess what? You should still have enough common sense to look both ways before crossing the street.

Watch the Leaving Neverland doc, there is no doubt that Jackson was a pedophile. Safechuck and Robson's stories are pretty much identical, as are the stories of their respective mothers, and they could not be making things up. It's all way too detailed.

R266 It is not an identical situation, and of course it is only a figure, but neither was Hitler ever sentenced for any crime, so a strict legalist can also claim his innocence, if you understand what I mean

There are things you know without the judicial sentence. You know how Oedipus ran away from Thebes to escape his shame and came to Harlem when he thought he was safe. A guy he almost ran into in the street told him: "Careful, motherfucker". Poor Oedipus thought that all the world knew his secret, and everybody knew his secret.

R267 - honestly I have been to creeped out to watch it. Then again, the fact that their stories match up so well is telling...unless they coordinated for money, which I doubt very much. I think MJ was suffering from a psychosis...plus all those kids. What was odd was that my mom called it out a long time before any allegations were made. She always said "what in the hell is up with him and all those little boys...it's just creepy". Meanwhile, I had a teacher who thought he was the smartest guy on the planet who would say "oh...he gives to charity...I would let my kids play at his house". Of course, said teacher was openly cheating on his wife with another teacher there so...and all of us knew and his kids went to our school and they really got it.

"Sexual abuse is the only crime where victims and society at large are gaslighted about the existence of the crime."

That's also true of domestic violence.

From Vanity Fair, 10 "Undeniable Facts" about the MF Sexual Allegations:

1. There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in a row in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boy’s house with Chandler’s mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandler’s father’s house. The parents were divorced.

2. So far, five boys Michael Jackson shared beds with have accused him of abuse: Jordie Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, and Jimmy Safechuck. Jackson had the same nickname for Chandler and Arvizo: “Rubba.” He called Robson “Little One” and Safechuck “Applehead.”

3. Jackson paid $25 million to settle the Chandlers’ lawsuit, with $18 million going to Jordie, $2.5 million to each of the parents, and the rest to lawyers. Jackson said he paid that sum to avoid something “long and drawn out.” Francia also received $2.4 million from Jackson.

4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.

5. The hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom was a serious security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds.

6. Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there.

7. According to the Neverland staff interviewed by the Santa Barbara authorities, no one ever saw or knew of a woman spending the night with Michael Jackson, including his two spouses, Debbie Rowe or Lisa Marie Presley. Rowe, the mother of two of Jackson’s children, made it clear to the Santa Barbara authorities that she never had sex with Jackson.

8. The parents of boys Jackson shared beds with were courted assiduously and given myriad expensive gifts. Wade Robson’s mother testified in the 2005 trial that she funneled wages through Jackson’s company and was given a permanent resident visa. Jimmy Safechuck’s parents got a house. Jordie Chandler’s mother got a diamond bracelet.

9. Two of the fathers of those who have accused Jackson, Jordie Chandler and Wade Robson, committed suicide. Both were estranged from their sons at the time.

10. In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys.

R272 - I remember following the trials and interviews and Debbie Rowe (who BTW was obviously as much a lesbian stereotype as the silliest DL-ers paint) always refused to answer the question of whether they had sex. Lisa Marie also said that she didn't imagine it would happen, but that things happened naturally between them and said that, obviously, if nothing could happen she wouldn't have married him. He himself said he had sex with Debbie. So...maybe he TRIED to have a heteronormative life with these women but, of course, his psychosis prevented it? Pretty sure Debbie was there for the money and she didn't seem like a liar at all. It was odd that she didn't stay in the kids' life but....The stuff about the magazines and statues I have never heard.

[quote]I remember an interview with Michael where he was condemning people who had sex with children. The interviewer asked him, "what do you think should happen to such people?"

Michael looked as of he was having a panic attack when Diane Sawyer craftily put that question to him. He was definitely taken aback by it. Possibly he wore an earpiece, and was being fed answers by his lawyers to help field the tougher questions.

A strange pause, then - "Obviously, that person needs help... YOU KNOW!"...

[quote]He was attached to the hip with Macauley Culkin,

He was attached at the hip for a while with Brook Shields, does that make him straight?

I lived Santa Barbara where the prosecute that was after him failed twice to do so, I have a family member that works in a hospital where he frequented, and other members that have been to Nederland ranch as guests. I will say this, first of all yes I think he at some point and maybe often did play around with some of those boys. Here is the BUT statement.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Starting with all the parents who also saw him on "dates" with little boys and sent their little boy alone with him even bringing to his house. Those parents are equally responsible, don't tell me they didn't have a clue what was going on. They saw dollar signs. They pimped out their kids.

Secondly, Tom Sneddon Jr. the district attorney of Santa Barbara was on a mission to retire by catching a big fish on his way out. He had a big chip on his shoulder about Micheal Jackson. He was the guy that tried to get him the first time a decade earlier in LA for child molestation and he failed. So the second time his personal vendetta got the best of him. He got caught trying to plant fingerprint as evidence.

Third, he over played his hand. When he deiced to arrest Micheal, he didnt show up with one or two police cars, he showed up with over 60 law enforcement officers to raid Neverland ranch. They don't even do that for riots and serial killers in that neighborhood. Probably half the entire SB police force, It's a small town not a big city. Sneddon wanted to make a big media spectacle of the thing so he would be remembered. Well, he was remembered alright, for failing twice in a row because the jury did not believe Sneddon, that kid or his mother. The same mother who tired to sue Walmart a couple years earlier for slip and fall. Snedon picked the wrong child to put on a poster. Attempting to cheat with false evidence did not look good in court. He had a dream jury too, white conservatives. There are very few black people in Santa Ynez Valley. And unlike SB it's very rural so leans very conservative. If anyone was going to convict it would have been them.

Like I said, I am sure Micheal played with SOME of those boys, but not the one Snedon based his Neverland raid on. Parents are largely to blame as well. Most people dont know that every child invited to Neverland Ranch was required to be accompanied by a parent or legal guardian. When my relatives went, there were dozens of other adults there watching the kids. The main house was off limits. So any kids in there were basically with the parents permission and accompaniment. If parents are so star struck that the took their kind inside of a house with a man who only surrounds himself with boys, has been accused IN COURT for molesting them in the past, it's either will full ignorance or wishful thinking that some kind of cash payout will result.

Parents are not equally to blame as the guy putting his penis in their child. That is crazy talk. How do you know they weren’t as ignorant and starstruck as people are today who think Jackson is innocent?

I didnt say parents were equally to blame, I said largely to blame. Yes, I hate to burst your bubble, but some people are not good at being parents. Who do you think raised the 2 million criminals, murders and thieves now sitting in American prisons? They all had parents and I think we could say they failed at their job.

“those parents are equally responsible” Not surprised you are a liar, but you are even too stupid to reread your last post?

Whatever, they are still responsible. You are too stupid yourself if you cant understand they had a roll to play in this. Parents are ultimately responsible for their child, not some celebrity. Oh but lets nit pic what word I used instead.

Your posts sound like one big rambling gush of "Whataboutism." The boys had shitty parents and Sneddon had an agenda, but MICHAEL JACKSON is the one who molested them. He is largely responsible, and no amount of bullshit by you or other Jackson apologists will change that.

r275 MJ and Brooke Shields went on a few "dates" in public, because it was good publicity for both of them. Culkin was his constant companion. How many adult men take a little boy everywhere with them, travel with them internationally and have the little boy basically live at his house?

The only way that's not sketchy is if the boy is the man's son or ward. Otherwise, it's creepy and weird.

Tom Sneddon is a cold man.

He must be stopped...

True r283. It's been said over and over that adult men do not have young boys they are not related to as companions. It's very abnormal behavior. Jackson was such a huge celebrity his behavior was excused, and many excuses were made for him. If some man who lived in your neighborhood had young boys over to his house all the time and had them sleeping in his bedroom, everybody would be horrified and they would call the cops.

This man also claimed that his two oldest kids were his biological children. He said Prince and Paris were conceived with his sperm.

Prince and Paris are his doctor Arnold Klein. Prince looks exactly like him and Blanket was Jackson's best friend Niko Brando.

There's got to be a serious book about all of this- anyone know it?

"I didnt say parents were equally to blame, I said largely to blame."

The parents are both to blame for failing to protect their children, and a victim of a criminal themselves. These aren't people who set out to pimp their kids, these are people who fell for Jackson's lies and bribes, and who had to live with their children's hatred, the contempt of the public, and in a two cases, enough guilt and self-hatred to drive them to suicide.

Jackson was genuinely evil. He ruined whole families.

R287 - link? MJ said they were his..."my sperm" and reminded us that his dad had blue eyes and light hair and skin. Also, Paris said he told her not to forget her heritage and that she is "black". I honestly do think Paris has his head shape and and a bit of extra pigment but she had so much of her mom it's hard to see.

Oh God, this bullshit again. Yes, biracial children can look like anything, but it's very, very, rare for a biracial child to look as white as Rashida Jones. So really, it's impossible for someone who has Jackson DNA in their sperm to produce THREE children who look like they don't have a shred of Africa in their gene pool. Let's not start this again, please?

What did Michael Jackson and pimples have in common?

They both came all over your face at age twelve.

[quote]link? MJ said they were his..."my sperm"

Can you see?

No way is he the bio father of Paris and Prince

And Macaulay Culkin, Paris Jackson's "godfather," may be her biological father.

R288, I don't know if there is a serious, comprehensive book about Jackson and the abuse allegations. There are so many complicating factors: MJ's many, many enablers are still alive, and his incredibly wealthy estate has an enormous interest in suppressing all this stuff. Maureen Orth's articles in Vanity Fair are generally considered to be the best overview.

[quote]There are so many complicating factors: MJ's many, many enablers are still alive, and his incredibly wealthy estate has an enormous interest in suppressing all this stuff.

THIS

So Liz or Liza or Quincy or Janet or others should have lead the call. But of course not. LaToya toyed with it. I actually think her life was threatened to death in the most scary Pellicano ways and she backed off. The people who got paid or get rich off Michael Jackson will never speak and the ones who do talk are accused of slandering him for money. He was, like Eppstein perfectly protected, even under intense criminal investigation. And like Eppstein, he's dead. Long may he be dead.

Cher at least said at the time that Michael had "changed" from his sweet self and she chose to distance herself. Seems a small remark, but she can't accuse him of a crime no one witnessed. But she knew.

Jackson was a fucking pedophile creep. A human disaster. An ongoing destructive crime, in plain sight. A destroyer of lives and souls. He not only groomed boys, he got to hand pick them from around the world. And study their families. And benefit from his enormous fame and these young boys love for Michael Jackson. Yes, this does discount everything else he ever did.

I think Jackson used the sperm of one of Marlon Brando's sons for the creation of Prince and Blanket. They both resemble Miko Brando. No doubt he though Brando sperm was exceptional.

[quote]It's been said over and over that adult men do not have young boys they are not related to as companions. It's very abnormal behavior.

Wow, the sexism on this thread is deafening. So basically all men cant be trusted? But woman can take a neighbors child across the street with her on a vacation and that just totally not weird? I know woman who have done this just be be kind because maybe the parent didnt have that kind of money. But you know what, woman have also stolen other people's babies and murdered their own children too. But oh, men can never be trusted but woman get a pass. I call BS.

[quote]adult men do not have young boys they are not related to as companions

So now I am canceled?

[quote] But woman can take a neighbors child across the street with her on a vacation and that just totally not weird?

Did she sleep in the same bed and treat them like dates?

r298 a grown man going everywhere with a child, having that child over to his house all the time and sleeping in the same bed is very abnormal behavior.

When women take neighbor children on vacation, it's usually because they have kids that child's age. They are taking companions for their children, not themselves.

"Wow, the sexism on this thread is deafening. So basically all men cant be trusted?"

If a woman was in the habit of taking unrelated children out on dates and treating them like best friends, and befriending the child's family but making sure the parents and siblings were out of the way for large periods of time, and the child was always the same sex and in a specific age range such as 8-12, and that child was replaced with another when they hit the upper age limit, and a new child and a new family were befriended every few years., and there were ongoing accusations of child molestation...

Well, people would be a little slower to catch onto a female pedophile than a male one, but they'd catch on. Because having serial monogamy relationships with unrelated children is NOT normal adult behavior.

That sounds kind of like that Mary Kay Letourneau did, R303. People didn't think much about it at first, but eventually they started to think her spending so much time with Vili was weird.

Have you seen my childhood?

Before you judge me, try hard to love me.

He was always going on and on about his fucked up childhood. LOTS of people had fucked up childhoods but they grew up to be responsible adults and didn't spend every waking fucking moment with children as their companions instead of other adults.

And if MJ hated his family so much he could've had nothing more to do with them the day he turned eighteen. He certainly was financially independent of them.

[QUOTE] neither was Hitler ever sentenced for any crime, so a strict legalist can also claim his

Only because he committed suicide before he could be arrested and put on trial.

I think everyone should be issued one drop dead pill upon the age of majority. Cyanide is pretty painful. There are better options now. Imagine a day at the end of your life - if it could be any day you decide?

Hitler had only one big ball. MJ had nightly propofol.

[quote]Did she sleep in the same bed and treat them like dates?

They shared the same hotel room, she paid for all the food travel, tickets to Disneyland, Hollywood. But if a man, a father (not MJ) did that with a neighbors kid he's automatically guilty. Double standard and sexist. How can you except men to be good father figures if they are also assumed to be predictors? You cant have it both ways.

[quote] if MJ hated his family so much he could've had nothing more to do with them the day he turned eighteen. He certainly was financially independent of them.

That's some fucked up projection. Abused kids are afraid of their abuser. Do you think his money was all sitting in a bank vaults somewhere where he could make a withdrawal and just run away? Daddy Jackson controlled all the money. He was to promoter of the Jackson 5. I am sure it was highly controlled and not easy to get at.

[quote]a grown man going everywhere with a child, having that child over to his house all the time and sleeping in the same bed is very abnormal behavior.

So is a woman in her 40's going after an 18 year old pool boy but we just call them cougars. It's still "abnormal".

Parents who take their kids to Neverland Ranch, into a house to play with an adult male who they know has been accused of child molestation in the past is is like dropping them off at John Wayne Gacy's house. Gee what could go wrong? And if it does, not my fault, I didn't perpetrate the crime. I'm just the parent. I thought John was a happy clown.

I think focusing on the parents is classic misdirection. People don't want to dwell on the fact that Jackson was a pedophile so it devolves into "omg how could any parent in their right mind blah blah blah

No it's not a distraction. It's part of the reason this all happened. And it the very reason MJ was found NOT GUILTY by a jury of almost all white conservatives no less. Normal parents do put their kids in danger. If you are going to argue that he is dangerous, why did you take your kid to even be in the same space as a dangerous person? The jury called bull shit on the parent and the kid's made up claims.

Dont shoot the messenger, I was not on the jury, I was not the judge. I am just telling you what the outcome was and why it went that way.

Oh, you IS crazy R315.

Facts are not crazy.

The mother lied and the Jury didn't believe her. Defense lawyers produced testimony that the woman had committed welfare fraud and fabricated evidence to win a settlement in an unrelated case. Jurors found it strange that the woman would let her son spend so much time with Jackson.

OJ was not guilty! FACTS.

What was that Ron guy doing anyway, going to the house of a known wife-beater? He deserved to get his throat slit.

R308 How do you know his defense lawyers wouldnt have convinced the jury of his innocence like MJs and OJs?

R319 - are you insane? OJ and Nicole were divorced and Nicole moved out of OJ's house. She was living in her own condo with the kids. Ron was a waiter. She was a regular and forgot her sunglasses and he was dropping them off. Even if he went to her house as a date (doubt it, as he seemed pretty gay to me), it was their business. Her house and divorced.

You win r321 for not recognizing a joke and seizing the opportunity to climb on a high horse.

[quote]OJ was not guilty! FACTS.

Your joke failed R319, OJ was found guilty in civil court and R322 you are an idiot to not see that was not to be taken literally. Although I do see how it was such a bad attempt at humor not totally your fault.

I did not take it literally, r321 is the fool who took it at face value.

R323 You dont have a very high level of education, do you. Because there is a difference between criminal process and civil dispute. Pople who lost their cases before the civil court are perfectly innocent an law obeying citizens, they just lost in in a dispute with another party and are obliged to some impositions like payments etc. OJ was found not guilty before the criminal court and is a citizen with the clearest record.

That was a poorly placed joke R319 because of the many apologists for MJ and OJ that come up with insane conspiracy theories and senseless arguments all over this thread and have, since the accusations were first made. Not my fault that your idea of time and place and satire is far from the wit of the crazy old bottom on here with his "essential frittata" shopping during lockdown and his Joel.

R326 Dont be so angry, its not my fault that you are such a literal and humorless bloke. And you certainly showed your beautiful colors from ageism to bottom shaming to effeminacy contempt. Self loathing much?

My God! Girls! You're both ugly!

R327 - if you read my posting history you will see that I am the very opposite of bottom or effeminate hating or humorless. In fact, I am an exclusive top who loves nelly bottoms and effeminate...bring 'em on!

Im a pretty girl.

R329 Many exsclusive tops ended up bottoming with me.

R331 - I don't that that will be the case with me. Besides my recto-colitis, I am not at all turned on by cock. I am strictly turned on by rimming and fucking ass. Mutual masturbation feels like I am not having sex. However, getting good blow job is like dying and going to heaven.

Don't tell me you agree with me when I saw you kicking dirt in my eye!

Block R315 and all of the crazy goes away.

This thread is now dead.

Says who R335? I personally think one day someone close to him, maybe Paris, may tell more.

A major reason Jackson was acquitted at trial was because his accusers were so trashy. They were grifters, as I recall. The mother, in particular, turned the jury off with her manner. at one point snapping her fingers at them. That really rubbed them the wrong way. If his accusers had been less off-putting he definitely would have been convicted of child molestation.

At least one of the jurors said they regretted their vote to acquit

[quote] The mother, in particular, turned the jury off with her manner. at one point snapping her fingers at them.

If she did that today, the jury would be screaming "yasssss queen!".

Okay! Here's my own "conspiracy theory" on MJ's death!

Jackson was desperate for cash, and had signed up for a big, highly publicized tour, in spite of his fragile health and addiction to incredibly dangerous prescription drugs, and the moneymen funding the tour realized they had a problem. Jackson obviously wasn't going to be able to perform at the level his fans expected, and would probably cancel half his dates due to being "sick". So, they insured Jackson out the wazoo, and found the worst, vilest, most corrupt, most homicidally incompetent "Doctor Feelgood" with a medical license they could find, and told him to give Jackson whatever he wanted, nothing but the best for the King of Pop, right?

So Dr. Murray went ahead and killed Jackson through gross negligence, and the tour's backers got both the insurance payout and a fall guy. It's perfect "Follow the money" logic.

R340, that's actually not crazy. Jackson had known Dr. Murray for several years and no doubt was confident that he would do whatever he was asked to do. But why would the tour organizers agree to pay him, and rely on his assurances that Jackson was fit to perform? They saw with their own eyes that Jackson could barely function. This could have been a nightmarish version of "The Producers"; they needed their star to fail so that they could make money.

Actually, R341, the tour moneymen needed their star to *die* to make money, if he just failed they'd have lost a fortune.

What better way to get rid of him and collect the insurance money for the tour, than to encourage the dangerously incompetent Dr. Murray to give their fading star absolutely anything he wanted?

[quote]At least one of the jurors said they regretted their vote to acquit

I dont respect that. I dont respect jurors who vote one way then then try and have it both ways after the trial is over. No one forced you to vote a specific way, you are supposed to vote based on your opinion, "judgment" of the evidence presented. Jurors see more than any outsider has the privilege to see. You may not like the outcome, or feel someone was guilty but not enough evidence but that's very different than saying you regret your vote. What you are really saying is oh, had I known x was going to happen, I would voted the other way, against my objective opinion I said I was making at the time. I other words I would have rigged the verdict instead of being fair and honest about the process.

I don't believe his crap about not having a childhood. The more siblings you have, the more of a riotous time is had by all, even if you are touring the country. Never a dull moment and they never had to worry about money. He acts as if he was locked in an attic and only let out to perform.

He had a childhood, just not an average childhood. As a young child he was performing and working, not going to school and hanging out with friends. Judging from things he's written it's obvious he had very little education and I guess the same goes for his brothers and sisters. It was definitely a dysfunctional family situation. But a dysfunctional family situation doesn't very often warp someone to the extent Michael Jackson was warped. His bizarre behavior was beyond comprehension. NO excuse could justify the things he did. I think his unbelievable fame and wealth did a lot more to ruin his mind than his relationships with his family.

So... why are R344 and R345 on my ignore list????

Did ANY of the Jackson family ever graduate from high school? Seems unlikely.

The child thing bores me. It's really just one of many odd traits he had. I would like to know more how he got that way, from the extreme plastic surgery to living in a fantasy world like some Peter Pan syndrome. He didn't just wake up one day like that, there must have been many people or enablers along the way.

[quote] But a dysfunctional family situation doesn't very often warp someone to the extent Michael Jackson was warped.

It was not just that, he was also a child star. Most of them if you look back turned out quite odd and sad. Only a handful turn out to be what we consider normal healthy people. Brook Shields for example with her intense stage mother was destine to be like that. But she decided to put her acting aside, go to college and socialize with other people her own age before going back into the lime light. She turned out ok.

R341 - his last few video clips don't show a man who is hardly functioning, just very deranged. He was dancing very well and very much aware of his steps at auditions. So much so, he helped Liz pack to go on his last tour. Didn't seem that messed up to me.

R345, Jackson attended junior high with Danny Bonaduce. He did go to school.

Danny said he was a real weirdo even fhen

R351 - I don't know about that. I lived in Woodland Hills close to his family's home in Encino and many people who had anything to do with him...from delivery, private pharmacy, law firm staff, and some black chefs and locals wealthy black people in the industry said he was a total gentleman when they met him. Some did say he was eccentric but, then again, so were other rock stars.

R350, the question wasn’t whether Jackson could perform, but whether he had the overall health and stamina for 50 shows. After his death, the Jackson family sued the production company for causing the death of their meal ticket. The case went to trial, and there was testimony showing that the company was aware that Jackson would probably be unable to go through with the shows. The jury said, basically, “Michael brought this on himself, his death was his own fault.”

R343, in this situation, I suspect that any juror that was in the minority was heavily pressured by the majority, especially in a high profile case like this. They could have felt like they had no choice but to vote against their opinion, just to move on with their life.

R315- I am trying to understand your logic. Do you believe that if a child had irresponsible, neglectful, greedy parents a pedophile who targets the child JUST for that reason should not be held accountable for sexually molesting him?

Saw the Thriller tour as someone;s guest. It was OK, for anyone always saying what a great dancer he was, there were ten others on the stage doing the same exact movements. I have to admit "Michael Jackson's THIS IS IT" is a great documentary showing how an production of a major music tour is put together. It also documents his last days. The film should have been Oscar nominated.

r340 / r342: That's more or less what I heard, from a number of people. There was word on the street about a month prior that the hammer was about to fall. I'd have said something to somebody if I felt there was any chance I'd be believed. (And, frankly, if I cared.)

[quote] Jackson attended junior high with Danny Bonaduce. He did go to school.

That's not the same as high school or better yet college where you get exposed to people of all kinds for all different places without the filter of parents or the freedom as an 18 year old adult.

[quote]I am trying to understand your logic. Do you believe that if a child had irresponsible, neglectful, greedy parents a pedophile who targets the child JUST for that reason should not be held accountable for sexually molesting him?

No R355. Your premise is wrong. First of all you are assuming MJ was guilty which the court and a Jury said he is not. You are setting up an argument based of falsehoods and YOUR belief not facts. But lets just say he was for sake of argument. The problem is, that particular kid was found to be lying and had a parent who used him as a prop. Not his fault but parents are shitty and abusive to use their kid in what basically is an extortion scam from a rich celebrity. Even if the person is guilty of those types of crimes, you cant as a judge and jury convict them with a false victim.

Now had Snedden the DA who had a chip on his shoulder done a better job, all he had to do was get a real victim to bring MJ to court. Which as it seems he could not find or was just too lazy to look.

[quote]I think a man who takes little boys on public dates is putting it right out there in plain sight, and no, I don't believe that Jackson was just trying to innocently experience a belated childhood. He was an adult man with adult testosterone levels (he had a deep voice in private), and who never showed any interest in adult women or men.

I've never heard that about his having a "deep voice in private." What's your evidence for that?

When Jackson started out, he had the normal speaking range of a boy/young man. When he was about 18, his speaking voice grew higher and breathier. It’s impossible not to become distracted by his ever-changing appearance, but his voice also became higher-pitched and affected. Everything with him was artificial.

Didnt he have surgery to change his voice? That was the rumor at the time when he started growing up, was famous as a child and didnt want to lose that.

The video R361 posted is fascinating, not just due to his voice, which really doesn’t change a whole lot I thought over the years, but for his plastic surgery. Holy shit.

It's hard to believe Michael Jackson at one time looked and sounded...normal. But he did. What a chilling transformation.

R94 is looney tooney babooney.

I dont think his voice changed much either. Certainly if he was not MJ people would not call it typically masculine.

The more I see these posts about him the for I feel sorry for him. I know you hater Fraus just want to scream pedo, pedo, pedo. But as I said before, the parents are partially to blame. Starting with his parents. Obviously they did something wrong for him to turn out that way. Abuse is usually a cycle from parent to child. Whatever they did to him must have been pretty damn disturbing.

You cant expect people to just have common sense and "snap out of it" one day. He had nothing to reference as good parents. And no one really called him out on it while it was really going on. Everyone from his fans to his family were enablers.

Most people don’t need good parenting to know not to stick their genitals inside little children

His housekeeper found little kids underwear in his room but never went to the FBI! Everyone employed by MK is just as guilty at child abuse as he was. Pedophilia doesn’t come from an abusive fame hungry parent, it comes from a sickness inside. He was both. But he was allowed to get away with being a boy fucker because he made money for people and people (fucked up fans) felt sorry for his child like nature due to his fucked up childhood. Fuck all the talentless Jackson’s.

[quote] The more I see these posts about him the for I feel sorry for him. I know you hater Fraus just want to scream pedo, pedo, pedo.

You feel sorrry for a guy who sucked little boy's penises? You must be a pedo, pedo, pedo yourself.

[quote] I know you hater Fraus just want to scream pedo, pedo, pedo. But as I said before, the parents are partially to blame.

No one is saying they aren't partially responsible. They fed the Lion.

Why is everyone so eager to deflect blame onto the parents, the entourage, even the housekeeper?

Jackson was the one sticking his dick in little kids.

One of the former workers admitted that Jackson fingered lil boy asses and wouldn't wash him hands.

Whenever you see him constantly smelling his fingers it was to get a whiff of child ass.

The parents of the boys do share in the blame for the molestation of their children. The mothers especially were easy to cajole into handing over their boys to Jackson. Jordie Chandler's mother was given diamond and ruby jewelry from Cartier as "a token (Jackson's words)" for her cooperation in the giving her child to the freaky celebrity. One of the mothers in "Leaving Neverland" gushed about Jackson's wine cellar, which contained a plethora of fine wine (she was a lover of fine wine). And she got to meet (gasp!) SEAN CONNERY! I guess she thought drinking fine fine and meeting celebrities was reason enough to hand her kid over to Jackson so he could de God knows what to them. The parents shared in the blame, alright.

The parents were definitely not innocent. I wonder if parents in this day and age would do the same thing with their kids, or are people more savvy about this kind of thing in light of Michael Jackson's perversions?

Michael seems to be a self hating Black man. He erased all of his Black physical features. Which Rebbie, Jermaine, La Toya and Janet never did (they just got awful nose jobs and Botox fillers). Vitiligo is a real condition and he did have it which is why his skin got increasingly lighter because of the makeup he had to wear to even it out. In Bad, he was beige colored but still visibly Black with his texturized hair. But he choose to go even further and bleach his skin to be pale white, got another nose job and wear that awful wig.

He did suffer a lot of trauma from all the physical and emotional abuse from his father, bullying from his brothers, exposure to sexuality at such a young age, all the stress of touring and never getting to form stable relationships and being the breadwinner for the family. I can see why he was emotionally stunted by that. The biggest issue was being surrounded by yes-men and getting so wealthy despite not maturing emotionally. He never sought any therapy for his past trauma.

As for the molestation. Yes he was a pedophile. His behavior and personality traits are consistent with most. Childlike personality and interests, fetishizing the idea of childhood and innocence, not relating to other adults, not seeing his sexual behavior towards children as wrong and losing interest in his "friends" after they finish puberty. The fact he kept insisting on sharing his bed with these children after the first trial says a lot. Plus all of the boys looked alike. They were beautiful usually between 10 to 13 with fine features, often white or olive skinned with longish hair. He would dress them up to resemble himself and he treated them like his wives.

I don't know why people can't accept the reality. I understand Michael Jackson was a phenomenal performer and undeniable as one of the greatest pop stars. But he was a fucked up person. Nobody is perfect. Which is why celebrity worship is dumb. They are just people with fame, just as damaged and messed up as anyone else

r376 that's a great, concise summary.

[quote]Most people don’t need good parenting to know not to stick their genitals inside little children

Not true. There's a tribe in Papua, New Guinea where young boys drinking men's sperm is a right of passage.

[quote]I don't know why people can't accept the reality. I understand Michael Jackson was a phenomenal performer and undeniable as one of the greatest pop stars. But he was a fucked up person.

I dont think anyone is arguing that he was fucked up. What I am arguing is that he was not alone in what happened to these kids. It's to easy to say he was a pedo and shove it all under the carpet with no one else to blame. I am sorry but some of those parents should have ALSO been held accountable. He may have been the one who fired the gun but they were accessories to the crime. I am tired of Fraus screaming "the children" when they themselves are the ones who are supposed to be the caretakers and guardians of not the ones feeding them to the lion for a bottle of wine or a fancy jewelry.

Those parents should have had their kids taken away if you truly believe MJ did what he did. I't was not 1950, I am not buying that they didn't have a clue. that's a big fucking excuse.

"What I am arguing is that he was not alone in what happened to these kids."

Jackson was the one sticking his dick in little kids, he was absolutely primarily responsible, and he was the one who ensnared other adults into his web of lawbreaking and lies, and if you continue to lose sight of that you're going to get such a bitchslapping! The parents weren't putting their kids on Pedo Grindr, for fuck's sake, they were regular dipshits who crossed paths with a wealthy and manipulative pedo, and who got it wrong when they did.

And don't you worry about them getting away unpunished, at least in the cases we know about, they've suffered for their mistakes. Some of them have been held up as public examples of bad parenting, some have lost custody, two have committed suicide, others have been cut off by grown children who blame them, etc. Jackson didn't just rape little kids, he destroyed their families.

Were you there R380? Did you see MJ sticking his dick into little kids? Did you enjoy watching it? I thought so. Parents are just as guilty. You dont have to be the one firing the gun to be convicted of a crime if you are driving the get away car.

[quote] The parents weren't putting their kids on Pedo Grindr, for fuck's sake,

No they were just accepting bottles of expensive wine, trips on a private jet and fancy jewelry. Not child sex trafficking or pimping out their spawn at all.

R380, jordy Chandler’s father killed himself because he had a painful terminal disease. Jackson’s fans like to claim he killed himself because he felt bad “lying” about Michael but that wasn’t the truth.

[quote] there must have been many people or enablers along the way.

The wealthy ALWAYS have an army of sycophants to do their bidding. Say ‘no,’ and you’re gone.

[quote] You cant expect people to just have common sense and "snap out of it" one day. He had nothing to reference as good parents. And no one really called him out on it while it was really going on.

He had the resources and time to go to therapy every! Single! DAY!!! Get the kinks in your head straightened out. He didn’t

[quote] He did suffer a lot of trauma from all the physical and emotional abuse from his father

I’m betting sexual too, and around the ages of the boys he took. It’s a pattern with pedophiles of reenactment of trauma. His father pimped him out. I’m sure of it.

I can’t believe some moron is really suggesting that an ignorant, flattered, fame-addled parent letting their kid spend time with a beloved superstar is on the same level as a pedophile sucking little boy penis

[quote]jordy Chandler’s father killed himself because he had a painful terminal disease. Jackson’s fans like to claim he killed himself because he felt bad “lying” about Michael but that wasn’t the truth.

You don't know the truth either. Only the father knows why he committed suicide and he ain't talking.

[quote]I can’t believe some moron is really suggesting that an ignorant, flattered, fame-addled parent letting their kid spend time with a beloved superstar is on the same level as a pedophile sucking little boy penis

They are not innocent in the situation. A simple NO you can't sleep with my child would have sufficed.

You think the parents knew Michael Jackson was going to have sex with their child?

How stupid are you?

[quote]He had the resources and time to go to therapy every! Single! DAY!!! Get the kinks in your head straightened out. He didn’t

What a dumb shit your are. Are you really that stupid? Money does not change bad parenting or suddenly give you social life skills to realize all you need to do is go to therapy. Or even how to recognize you have a problem and options to deal with it. His dad never did that and had the money to get therapy. His mother never said anything about it. Why would their offspring think any differently?

R385, The reporter Diane Diamond knows the chandler family personally and that came straight from her. The Jackson’s fans also perpetrate a hoax that Chandler admitted he lied after Jackson died.

One of their many many lies.

[quote]I can’t believe some moron is really suggesting that an ignorant, flattered, fame-addled parent letting their kid spend time with a beloved superstar is on the same level as a pedophile sucking little boy penis

ABSOLUTELY NO ONE is suggesting they are "on the same level." You might want to take a course to try to increase your reading comprehension level, but I fear it's too late.

Amazing how some people, like you, are SO STUPID that two concepts can't exist in your brain at once: (1) OF COURSE, Michael Jackson was the prime evildoer in these tragic situations, but (2) yes, the parents of the victims were complicit.

Thanks for your impressive and insightful post R376. The best of this thread. Of course Jackson was a pedophile. That should be a given. Many things can be true at once. I don't think celebrity worship is the takeaway for me. Jackson had too much money, power and enablers. Some very famous and hundreds more on his personal life payoff payola roll. They didn't all worship him. They profited from him. They are complicit.

[quote] You think the parents knew Michael Jackson was going to have sex with their child?

They knew he was a bizarre man who mutilated himself with plastic surgery that made him look more and more like a woman and that he was obsessed with children. When Jackson proposed the idea that their boy child sleep in the same bed with him they eventually agreed to that. He wanted to take their children to bed with him...what thinking person would NOT know that he wanted to do that because he wanted sex with them? On some level they knew what he wanted. And they let him have it. The parents should have arrested for child endangerment. They handed their kids over to a sexual predator.

The MJ case demonstrates what systemic corruption looks like. Society is designed to glorify and enable the rich and famous. Virtually everyone participates in this in some way. The whole fucking world knew what MJ was doing. We all saw it; he paraded these kids, he rubbed everyone’s noses in it. And for the most part no one did anything. And when someone has that kind of power, one person saying “no” means nothing. MJ would have had his way, with these kids or a different group of them.

[quote]He would dress them up to resemble himself and he treated them like his wives.

The dynamic between Michael and all those boys really was like that of a couple, it's all so obvious in retrospect. When he appeared with them in public they were holding hands and being affectionate and it was exactly the same body language etc. as a couple out on a date. It's unbelievable how he got away with it.

The Jacko's stan who is going on and on about the children's irresponsible parents. We get it, The parents were stupid and partly to blame for not protecting their kids but Jacko was a serial pedophile and a master manipulator, He had the ability to smell and spot those weak parents a mile a way.

^ Exactly. He spotted them and groomed them. He got the pick of what attracted him. Unlike the pedo down the street - Jackson had the ability to groom and entice both the parents and boys. Silence all witnesses or suspicious employees. Jackson got better and braver, like most criminals with successful experience. He had casual boys and his permanent number one partners in life. Until they hit 14. Next.

Let's make it clear, they were all boy children. Their sisters were invited for cover. They weren't all dying of cancer though that case is particularly puke inducing. Jackson should be bald and noseless, rotting way in prison, buying his way out of being killed daily. He doesn't deserve to rest in propofol eternity. Fuck him. What a fucking sick creep. And fuck Liz and Liza and Quincy too. If they didn't know - it took a great deal of effort and diamonds not to.

Diana Ross had the good taste and smarts to not show up OR perform at his funeral. She LOVED the original MJ. But she has 5 kids and say what you want about Ms. Ross, she is a good mother. You don't always need proof to know. She knew.

Did Liza really know him that well? I think they were more social acquaintances.

I bet his cock got a real work out that night...

Liza Minnelli's participation in orgies, teenage pedophilia, dog fucking and gangbangs are better left to another time. She was an exhibitionist. She had sinister taste and insatiable appetites herself. Not so much for children. She paid over a million dollars to silence a single witness. LISA has defended all the wrong players in life. A mess of a human being herself. She's mentally damaged and liked putting on a show. She's unsavory, but sweet? Her defense of Jackson is the same as her defense of everyone else. Viewed as loyalty, but really a plea to not be examined herself.

Aside from that - who the fuck cares. She loved drugs and gangbangs and being fucked publicly by men, women and dobermans. True and true. She didn't marry gays and pimps for nothing. After her stroke and sexual impotence - she married the creepiest gay guy - Michael Jackson's very close friend and producer of his TV special - David Gest. Nothing casual at all about Liza's connection to Michael. If she didn't label him as child rapist it's because she has no sense of outrage about the word or act.

Jackson was a serial pedophile of a very particular and classic profile.

L*I*Z*A* was a star. A sad fat broken down drunk star who Michael invited to perform at his 9/11 special. She would not forget his kindness. She married the producer.

She knew him long before, in better days. Michael would not approve of Liza's debauchery. Even Katherine Hepburn had him to lunch. He was somebody once. A nice boy....

Just a couple of "brahs" out on the town... holding hands....

Looks like an engagement photo they'd run in a local paper...

r398 that wasn't funny the first 100 times you posted it and it's not funny now

My post is not a joke R401. Why would it be funny? It's the truth, and only a small piece of it. Liza Minnelli was a debauched PIG. And worse.

Jackson was WORSE.

r398/r402 - The mentally ill 'ancient white fags' poster who is a pox on this site. He's a nutcase loser who is best put on ignore.

[quote] Liza Minnelli was a debauched PIG. And worse.

She got drunk, did drugs and got a lot of dick. She was basically doing what everybody else was doing in the 70s. You are truly strange.

R395 Don't forget Lisa Marie Presley. She still defends him till this day.

Datalounge - the only place on the Internet where fantasists actually care enough to invent bizarre stories about Liza Minnelli's sexual proclivities from 50 years ago. Never change, you fucking freaks!

[quote]She got drunk, did drugs and got a lot of dick. She was basically doing what everybody else was doing in the 70s.

Huh? Liza committed gross acts of indecency and illegal acts on video. She didn't just do drugs and get a lot of dick. She liked being fucked by dogs and being watched and filmed. She was gangbanged in the balcony and basement of 54 more times than some gay AIDS casualty at the bathhouse in 5 years. She liked women and men but her specialty was dog fucks. The book is out there as are the witnesses. Everyone says what a great performer she was, well they ain't talking about her coke fueled stage shows. Liza's voice was always unattractive but powerful. She was done being any good before she was 40. Just like mom. Only the ancient white fags of Datalounge proclaim otherwise.

Liza paid a lot of money to keep her exploits quiet and married David Gest to keep the reason for her stroke quiet. They called it encephalitis but that's not how it was or how it went down. He pimped her out for another tour and arranged her wobbly voice to win a Tony award. Liza is oblivious to most things because she has spent a lifetime lying. Including about Michael Jackson. Secret keepers keep secrets.

R403 is a nutcase and the monster of DL. But everyone knows that. Over 75 and living in a diaper. Raging.

**backs away slowly from r407** Wow. Just wow.

[quote]He had the ability to smell and spot those weak parents a mile a way.

Weak parents? Still apologizing for bad parenting I am see. By weak do you mean giving them a bottle of wine and some jewelry to green light Pedophile play time?

Trolldar R403 and you find many disturbing posts. A racist and woman hater, Jackson defender and someone who says glug glug about Whitney Houston. It loves John Mulvaney and defends MJ. Thats an older poster over 70. R407 is right. R403 lives or works in assisted living. Talks and stocks people on this site and harrases many posters. Has been reported to Datalounge many times but keeps using different IPs. F&F it. My BF and I keep reporting her but he is well known to Mediapolis already.

I don't know Liza Minneli accept as the woman who can't sing. Was she friends with MJ? He had all the faghags in the corner. Who cares if she fucked dogs?

Michael Jackson abused hundreds of young boys. Burn in hell.

***backs away slowly from r410*** Wow. Just wow.

[quote]Virtually everyone participates in this in some way. The whole fucking world knew what MJ was doing.

No us, while we did travel with him on his private jet to exotic places and he showered us with gifts, bottles of wine and jewelry, I never had a clue, never saw a thing. I just though out of all the children he might be related to like nieces and nephews, my precious spawn was so specie that he plucked him out of a crowed as a nobody so he could play innocent games with him. Of course he was a grown man who mutilated his face, wore a wig and only related to children but how were we to know? There were no red flags at all. Maybe innocent times.

All the parents who later claimed MJ was a monster.

It was so obvious in retrospect. He groomed those poor kids and treated them like spouses. The only good thing to come out of this is that people are more aware of what this looks like and they know how to spot it now. I can't imagine any celebrity getting away with it today like MJ did back then.

[quote]I can't imagine any celebrity getting away with it today like MJ did back then.

As a Catholic Priest I beg to differ.

r414 are Catholic Priests parading the young boys they're fucking around in public? Holding hands with them, having them sit on their laps in front of photographers? Traveling with them everywhere?

I know James Safechuck. Michael Jackson molested him. There is no question about it. He told me years before he went public. It happened.

[quote]are Catholic Priests parading the young boys they're fucking around in public?

Pretty much yes, the one in my parish that was busted was doing that. All the boys loved him, flocked around him like he was Peter Pan. He was a priest, so if you cant trust a priest to only have good intentions who can you trust. The boys would go off with him into private rooms without the parents all the time. If you were really lucky, the priest would ask the parents if it was ok for the boys to spend more time with him so he could "teach them about god". They dropped of the kid and went back home. No one said a thing. It was obvious. "why is that priest always with the little boys? Oh because he is so good with them".

Want another example? My JR high school band teacher. He took boys all the time on "lunch dates" with him and the parents not only thought it was cool, the called him up to thank him. They even gave him a book for his birthday with pics of all his young students in it so he would remember them. He was later accused of child molestation. What a surprise.

r416 James Safechuck and Wade Robson were clearly telling the truth in the documentary. Their stories were identical and extremely detailed.

r417 that's not the same thing. And anybody who would leave their child alone with a Catholic Priest in this day and age is an utter moron.

Lots of parents are morons though.

[quote]He was a priest, so if you cant trust a priest to only have good intentions who can you trust. The boys would go off with him into private rooms without the parents all the time. If you were really lucky, the priest would ask the parents if it was ok for the boys to spend more time with him so he could "teach them about god". They dropped of the kid and went back home. No one said a thing. It was obvious. "why is that priest always with the little boys? Oh because he is so good with them".

This happened in 1958. R417 is confusing his childhood memory in the hope of defending Michael Jackson!!☹See R403. Same poster. 🤨 Don't fall for his shit. Of course priests molest boys. Shocker. Some sports figures and coaches do too. Decades later they are caught. Cuz boys don't tell. Ask anyone in your hood. But priests and coaches and playground pedos don't romance victims in public. For years on end. And dress them up like their boyfriend the way that sick fuck evil pedo electric chair pervert Michael Jackson did. Or give interviews about sleeping with them. Or have Liz and Liza and Quincy defend them while they are actively raping and molesting young children. MJ died way too easy. Like R403 undergoing a colonoscopy. He loves the smell of shit. And propofol.

r403 and r417 are not the same poster. You are clinically insane, regardless.

R421 is completely off her rocker and forgot MJ has never been found guilty of such accusations. I guess where she lives it guilty until proven innocent.

She rambles on and on like it's a known fact. Reinforcing her view each time, except she wasn't there. She doesn't know anyone who was there. But oh, she watches a lot of TV so it must be true, she is sure of it.

R123 Michael Jackson was a disgusting pedophile.

R403 and R417 are the same poster. This is the one we are discussing with Mediapolis. He is crazy and stocks people and posts with 3 devices. But the same poster. It's easy to follow him. He has favourite subjects and some well noun obsessions. Very sick old man. Soon gone. For some more days.

He is defending Michael Jackson on this thread. But pretending not to. Figure out who this is. He has other sick pets too. l o o n y

If your TV says so R424 it must be true.

Sorry R425, we are not the same two people. I am not the one posting homophobic slurs on this site. I am calling out the homphopbes and cunty Fraus who only come here to shit on us and use MJ as a vehicle to do so.

r425 is also the ancient white fags troll. He has several accounts. He's a batshit insane lunatic. FF and put him on Ignore.

Yes, FF R425, tires of his homophobic shit.

MJ was not gay. Pedophiles are not usually gay. You're weird old dude R403, r417, R428. You have over 95 posts on this thread. You're here to defend Michael Jackson by posting about priests who molested boys? Your high school band teacher? I bet you played the flute. Fags who molest young boys are sexual pyschopathic pedophiles. Lock em up. Cut their nuts off. Nothing to do with homophobia. Michael Jackson wasn't even gay.

You're a sick fuck. Everyone already knows that. I didn't know you defended pedophiles too. But it's not a surprise R428. You always seem sick and desperate.

R430 is the the ancient white fags troll. FF him everyone. Or should I say her?

R403=R417=R429=R430

plus his 90 3 other posts.....

R432 loses an argument so now she calls anyone who disagrees with here a pedo? Says a lot about her intellectual ability to process logic. Cant win so I will call people names. How old are you 12?

we have archived his posts - R403, R417, R428 & his many posts might be the way to finally remove him from this site AND have the police visit him. He is trying to deflect, but that THING defended molesting young boys with some examples that should be investigated. He posted 100 + times on this thread.

TT mediapolis

I think he probably did do something incredibly inappropriate, possibly from exposing them to erotic art or playing doctor, all the way to even rape. But I feel like the main reason people have doubts is by the actions of the accused and their legal teams. There is something about it that reeks of opportunism. Like the parents allowed him close access to their kids because they could see a fat check in the future. And the kids-now-adults are in show business which breeds sociopathy. It's also known that MJ experienced great abuse when he was the boys age, so perhaps it was an unfortunate situation where he perpetuated the cycle. It's hard to say, because I don't solely trust the justice system, especially when the rich and famous are involved.

🙌🏿🙌🏿😏🙏🏾✊🏿🌒💋👨🏾‍⚖️

r434 aka ancient white fags troll, nobody has defended MJ, you are insane. If you look at posting histories, everyone pretty much agrees he did it. It's been fun FFing your insane ass!

R437 protests so much. Like sexual predators do. MJ did that too. Funny.

A man, A woman. Gay and Supermodel. Black and beautiful. MJ was fingering holes and licking 10 year old boys asses. Sleeping in the bed with children drugged on Jesus Juice - just like R437s favorite priest! R437 got it young and keeps the tradition going. As sick as anyone who ever lived. MJ would be the age of Madonna now. In prison for 10 years already with many more to go. R437 is already almost 80 years old - but that sickness never leaves.

^^Christ you're a sick fuck.

That's Sterling St. Jacques and Pat Cleveland

I know who they are R441. Pat and Sterling were so pretty. That's why I posted them.

R437, R417, r403 finds preteen boys pretty. Check out his other 90 posts and judge for yourself.

^^fucking lunatic

Don't mess this up out here. Let Mediapolis and other deal with him. That man is so old his days are near over. We will harm it enough to remove this thing from our site. Trust

b o r d e r l i n e

R442 =

"Being gay is a chosen lifestyle."

Ann Coulter praises Biden attacks Trump. "She's enjoyable."

"Old gay men seem to think that if they woke up with their clothes off in a strange place with a bloody hole, they had a good night. Gross."

"Christ I love it when Trump shits directly into my mouth."

Seriously, what would have happened if Jacko had hooked up with the Harry Potter cast?

I'm assuming Emma Watson would not have been invited but was Jacko a big fan of the books?

R423, there is an entire TWO-PART DOCUMENTARY on Jackson's pedophilia, including first-person testimony from two of the victims. You ignorant fool.

Jackson was adamant about visiting the set of the first Harry Potter film, but director Chris Columbus put a stop to that right away.

R428, OMG you're right. I just checked my Ignore List.

He talks to himself using multiple accounts to make himself look like people actually agree with them when they just further substantiate how crazy he is.

He thinks I'm an old man lol. I am. But, at 38 or 39, he's only less than a decade behind me!

From the tone of his posts and the sheer fact that he creates anonymous accounts to agree with himself, I think he's on drugs.

[quote]What is your favourite EST story that has made you laugh so hard? Mine is the guy who squealed like a pig from constipation-related pain writhing on the bathroom tile before pooping out a loaf of bread.

"...and forgot MJ has never been found guilty of such accusations"

Oh bullshit, never having been convicted does NOT mean that he didn't do it, or that nobody gets to talk about his unpunished crimes.

Even without there being one law for the rich and another for the regular people in this country, we all know people who've committed crimes and who've never been convicted. How many people do you know who've driven drunk, hit their SO's, used or sold drugs, had sex with someone underage, taken things home from work without permission, etc. They or we all did these things, we weren't arrested and we weren't sent to jail, but we still did them and if someone wants to call us on our shit after the fact, then the fact that we weren't convicted doesn't mean they have no right to talk.

I'm sure MJ's sickest, dearest-held fantasy c. 2000 was getting his slimy hands on both Daniel Radcliffe and Tom Felton, who were 11 and 13 at the time, Jackson's prime age range.

Thank God Chris Columbus had good sense.

Chris Columbus had to back-pedal and say he didn't want the kids to "get caught up in the celebrity lifestyle" or some such nonsense. It was a pretty lame excuse. The truth was that he didn't want Jackson anywhere near those kids because he knew damn well what was up with Jackson and little boys. JK Rowling allegedly contacted Columbus and was very concerned about him being near the boys, and Columbus assured her that Jackson would never be allowed anywhere near them.

[quote] there is an entire TWO-PART DOCUMENTARY on Jackson's pedophilia,

OH, more TV research? I thought so. Do you know MJ? Do you know a victim of MJ? Where in you the court room as a Juror? No I didn't thinks so. But as I told you up thread, watching things on TV and developing an about opinion dose mean it's true or accurate.

In fact, wasn't Martin Bashir busted for lying to Princess Diana to get her interview? He was accused of doing the same with MJ. FYI

[quote] we all know people who've committed crimes and who've never been convicted. How many people do you know who've driven drunk, hit their SO's, used or sold drugs, had sex with someone underage, taken things home from work without permission, etc. They or we all did these things, we weren't arrested and we weren't sent to jai

Actually WE ALL DO NOT KNOW a lot of people who committed crimes and go away with it. You know a lot of sketchy people Dear. You are the company you keep.

R455, you are unhinged.

R456 the only one unhinged is you, we do not have have friends who are criminal. That's pure projection on your part.

Maybe you are the criminal, r458.

A smooth criminal?

Smooth.

[quote]Do you know MJ? Do you know a victim of MJ? Where in you the court room as a Juror? No I didn't thinks so. But as I told you up thread, watching things on TV and developing an about opinion dose mean it's true or accurate.

R458, it was this outrageous comment of your that made me label you as unhinged, and I stand by that label. (You also can't write coherently, but that's another story.)

As if people need to know an alleged criminal or his victims PERSONALLY to judge whether that alleged criminal is guilty. If that were the case, there would be no jury system, you flaming idiot.

< comment of yours

This is R462 again. I should have written, "to have an opinion as to whether an alleged criminal is guilty." In my opinion, MJ was guilty of all he was charged with, but I'm not "judging" him as a member of a jury would have done if he had had a jury trial -- which, of course, he didn't, because he avoided that by paying millions of dollars in settlement money.

[quote]As if people need to know an alleged criminal or his victims PERSONALLY to judge whether that alleged criminal is guilty. If that were the case, there would be no jury system, you flaming idiot.

And yet you don't respect the jury system that found MJ not guilty of ALLEGED crime. You are talking out of both sides of your ass.

You want to believe what you want to believe and if the law or a court or a jury came to a different conclusion after looking at facts, evidence and witnesses you dismiss it and rely on your TV knowledge of the case. You are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs

Honestly, some people just don't understand the distinction between being judged at a legal trial, and being judged on a social level.

They are processes that work independently from each other, so much so that the official courts try to exclude social disapproval from the process. But a person may be convicted of a crime and still be popular with their peers, or declared not guilty but still be held under a cloud of disapproval and suspicion, like O.J. Simpson and Michael Jackson. Tough shit if some people don't like the social judgement, they can't do anything about it.

Jackson was acquitted on certain a certain set of criminal charges. We are entitled, as observers, to think that was an obvious error. But there’s more to it: the verdict didn’t mean that he wasn’t guilty of raping other boys.

R465, I don't know the details of the one trial in which Jackson was acquitted by a jury, so I can't make a judgment on that. But there were no jury trials for the other very serious allegation of molestation, including the ones detailed in the documentary LEAVING NEVERLAND. Are you aware of that?

He was a textbook pedophile. Case closed.

I’m loling at the guy who thinks being found guilty or even being charged means ANYTHING when it comes to child sex abuse/molestation. Lolololol

There is no crime in the world easier to get away with

[quote], I don't know the details of the one trial in which Jackson was acquitted by a jury, so I can't make a judgment on that. But...

You lost met at "I don't know the details.

No one cares about your stupid opinion, or "judgment". Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one. Go post your shit on mommy blogs if you dont care or actually know all the facts and just want to spew Frau theories. No one cares here.

[quote]You lost met at "I don't know the details" .No one cares about your stupid opinion, or "judgment". Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one. Go post your shit on mommy blogs if you dont care or actually know all the facts and just want to spew Frau theories. No one cares here.

The part of my comment that you conveniently failed to quote was that I wasn't expressing an opinion on MJ's jury trial for sexual molestation of a minor, for the very reason that I don't know the details -- but, INSTEAD, I was addressing the separate abuse allegations as painfully detailed by two other alleged victims in the two part documentary LEAVING NEVERLAND. If you can't understand that, you are a pathetic lame-brain. And if "opinions are like assholes," then you are one.

[quote]I was addressing the separate abuse allegations as painfully detailed by two other alleged victims in the two part documentary

Yes we should all get our knowledge for a TV show for alleged victims. Then post in 100s of time relentlessly like as a Troll that you are on a gay gossip site. Go back to your Nancy Drew novels or having meltdowns at your PTA like the Karen that you are.

R473, why are you a pedophilia apologist? Are you one yourself? Or are you a crazy MJ stan?

Why are you hung up posting about something you know nothing about on a gay website about a dead person. Is your husband a pedo? Is he diddling your daughter and this is you only outlet.

R474, you may be right one one or both counts. Or maybe R473 is crazy.

R473 is well known here. Follow its path. He's a sick fuck. On many threads & subjects.

An old thread about Howard Stern meeting Michael Jackson

Howard Stern:

[quote]t seems to me that Michael Jackson would fit the textbook description of a child molester: All of the neighborhood kids love him. These guys always have really cool kid gear set up in their houses - like video game arcades or toys or movies to show the kids. With Michael's wealth he doesn't just have movies - he has a theater. He doesn't have a pet dog - he has a zoo. He doesn't have a video game - he has an arcade.

[quote]Now I ask you: Has everyone out there lost their minds? What the hell is he doing with these boys?

[quote]Then Ryan White's mom comes on TV and says, "Michael Jackson was a lovely man and he didn't touch Ryan." What do you expect? Ryan had AIDS!

[quote]Thoughts raced through my head about how weird Jackson is. Fucking Never Neverland! If I had his money and I was single, I'd have Pussy Pussyland. No time for children's rides.

[quote]When women take neighbor children on vacation, it's usually because they have kids that child's age. They are taking companions for their children, not themselves.

Where did you get that idea? The woman I know who did that had kids who were in their 30's. Long gone and moved out of state I might add. This paranoia of woman OR MEN who want to treat a child that is not theirs to more fun does not make them all Pedos. Your helecopter parenting is off the charts.

Very fascinating breakdown of MJ from a psychological standpoint and if he did it or not.

So who are R480 and R481 on my ignore list...

[quote] Then Ryan White's mom comes on TV and says, "Michael Jackson was a lovely man and he didn't touch Ryan." What do you expect? Ryan had AIDS!

I really shouldn't have but I laughed at this line. He's right though--Michael is a textbook pedo. People refusing to believe it wouldn't even believe their own children if they told them they had been molested.

Actually he is not"text book" r483, are you a qualified shrink? Watch the video I posted on 481. At least get your facts from a real clinical psychologist with actual training and not some stupid hit piece video about MJ.

The guy in that video may be a real clinical psychologist, but he sounds very unintelligent when he speaks.

Well, so you judge people by their superficial appearance and not their skill level or education. Got it.

You sound more unintelligent that the person you are commenting about.

R486, I have no idea why you think I was judging him by his "superficial appearance," when I was actually judging him on his childish, non-professional speech. For example, "I'm not a fan of boring things." Idiot.

[quote]I was actually judging him on his childish, non-professional speech

That's still superficial you idiot. You are talking about his style, his presentation technique. Sorry it doesn't fit your preconceived idea of what is acceptable as professional. Is that how you gauge facts? They must pass your YouTube presentation style test? You have not mentioned a word about his content.

R488, much of the content is garbage. To give only one example, this guy strongly objects to reviews of the LEAVING NEVERLAND that describe the film as "persuasive" and "convincing," because he doesn't feel it's appropriate to review a documentary with "emotional responses" like that -- but then, a few minutes later, he himself describes the facts of the civil suit case that resulted in MJ paying $22 million to settle charges of sexually abusing a boy as "unconvincing." So it's okay for the facts of a legal case to be "unconvincing," but not for a documentary about that case and others?

As for Robson and Safechuck having testified under oath that MJ never abused them, this of course has been discussed many times before. I think we can all agree that it was a HUGE mistake for them to testify that way, yet many of us can understand the tremendous pressure and stress that caused them to do so.

Also, the fact that SOME of Jackson's accusers may be grifters doesn't mean he didn't have inappropriate sexual relations with many underage boys. THOSE TWO BELIEFS ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

Also, the guy mispronounces Macauley Culkin's name twice, as "Cuklin."

I could go on, but I'm sure it's pointless, because you will continue to believe what you believe.

There's subjective belief, and then there's individual standards of proof. Every time celebrity criminal behavior is discussed, there are people who say "Nobody can possibly believe that he's guilty, because the standards for conviction in a jury trial have not been met to my satisfaction". as if everyone on Earth was require to adhere to those standards when making up their minds about a person's character.

If I'm on a jury, then yes, I'll hold to the legal standard or proof, and if I'm deciding whether to let my kid* have a sleepover with a man who has been accused or suspected of pedophilia, I will make up my mind to refuse with far less evidence. And if it comes to deciding whether to watch or listen to something put out by a particular entertainer, my standards require zero proof, mild annoyance will turn me off paying for this person's product.

So fuck off with requiring legal standards of proof in an internet discussion, I made my mind back in the late 80s that I'd never trust Jackson with a child. I had no proof, I just saw him taking little boys on red carpet dates, everyone saw the same thing but few realized what it meant.

[quote] he doesn't feel it's appropriate to review a documentary with "emotional responses"

Yes, MJ fans review everything in the most precise, stoic manner. Like when they went ballistic with joy when MJ dangled his child from a window. Or when they think everyone ELSE is crazy for even thinking Michael raped children.

Have any of Jackson’s famous friends ever said he did something bad with kids? They all seem to defend him.

Most pedos are smart enough not to do anything inappropriate in front of non-pedo adults, R492, and Jackson was smart.

Most pedos are smart enough to keep up the mask of the person who just loves kids, who maybe wants to work with kids, who loves childhood games and gets along great with the little brats, and who is completely trustworthy. So honest they'll return the wallet you dropped in his bathroom, with every dollar bill and credit card just where you left it. And he or she will babysit for free, they love kids so much...

Jackson never seemed smart to me. Extremely talented, definitely, but I don’t know if I’d call him smart.

Heee-Heee was nuts and a broken person, but those that sued him were GRIFTERS. I think he was guilty of being stupid and crazy but I don't think he diddled the accusers.

Those settlements were not Jackson's idea. They were the strongly encouraged actions recommended by his team of high-priced lawyers, who knew he was sunk.

And he wasn't sunk because of being nuts and broken. He was sunk because the accusations were true and they had no defense except that so helpfully provided by people such as R495, which was that because parents were "grifters"/procurers and implicit abusers, somehow no crime occurred when Jackson was expertly grooming kids for his very specific needs.

You're incorrect. ^

Jordy Chandler pretty much admitted his dad sued Wacko Jacko because he was going broke from a messy divorce. The other family had grifted a bunch of comedians and had lengthy rap sheets from various crimes, including shoplifting hauls at JC Penney. Which seems quaint when people are looting Nordstroms without being arrested.

R497, so THAT explains the massive settlement. Jackson WANTED to make himself a target of grifters. Got it.

Lots of companies settle lawsuit just because they dont want the bad press. When you are worth 100s of millions, 20m is a drop in the bucket, just a nuisance settlement. You cannot read guilt into that if you want to be intellectually honest.

[quote]Jordy Chandler pretty much admitted his dad sued Wacko Jacko because he was going broke from a messy divorce. The other family had grifted a bunch of comedians and had lengthy rap sheets from various crimes, including shoplifting hauls at JC Penney. Which seems quaint when people are looting Nordstroms without being arrested.

But AGAIN, even if all of that is true, it doesn't mean it isn't ALSO true that MJ really did molest children. How many goddamned times does this have to be repeated for you to get it through your thick skull?

[quote]So fuck off with requiring legal standards of proof in an internet discussion, I made my mind back in the late 80s

Yes, you sound like someone stuck in the 80's. On that we agree.

I’m interested in whatever the psychological condition is that makes millions of people so emotionally invested in defending Michael Jackson when it is patently obvious the man was a prolific and devious pedophile. I wonder if there have been any studies done. It reminds me of those group delusions/hysterias that have been periodically recorded through history.

I’m interested in whatever the psychological condition is that makes millions of people so emotionally invested in accusing someone of being a pedophile that they will ignore trained professional opinions based on scientific observations with their own untrained, unskilled opinion they derived from media clips from paranoid helicopter parenting behavior. This cognitive distortion of realty from adults who will not accepts facts over their own opinion unsupported by any fact is dangerous to society.

R481, “Dr. Grande” is not a doctor, a psychiatrist, or a psychologist. He doesn’t make “scientific” observations.

R502, it is indeed a fascinating but very frightening phenomenon. I guess it boils down to the fact that some people CANNOT accept their heroes revealed as flawed human beings -- in some cases, flawed to the point of immoral and/or criminal activity. See, for example, R503.

DOO DOO

Why are nut cases like R502 so insist that they know all based of nothing more than what they have seen on TV. I am not and have never been an MJ fan. But apparently just pointing out that an all white conservative jury of men, woman and parents found him not guilty on all counts or a professional psychologist breakdown also concludes he's not a pedophile makes me a rabid fan?

I guess some people have to make up excuses when the facts conflict with their their delusional self inflated ability to form an accurate opinion based entirely on what they have seen in the media.

[quote] “Dr. Grande” is not a doctor, a psychiatrist, or a psychologist. He doesn’t make “scientific” observations.

He is a Licensed Professional Counselor of Mental Health (LPCMH) and Licensed Chemical Dependency Professional (LCDP) in the State of Delaware and is a National Certified Counselor (NCC). He holds a Master’s of Science in Community Counseling from Wilmington University and a Ph.D. in Counselor Education and Supervision from Regent University.

I think that makes him more qualified than most Mommy Fraus who get all their info off TV and proclaim it somehow makes them a better judge of character.

"I’m interested in whatever the psychological condition is that makes millions of people so emotionally invested in defending Michael Jackson when it is patently obvious the man was a prolific and devious pedophile."

Well that's partly cultural, conservative cultures always forgive a man and blame a female or boy victim in sexual crimes. The worst is found in Sharia Law, but among civilized cultural conservatives, every time an authority figure gets caught with his pants down, he's forgiven, because he's an authority figure. Even though his followers condemn whatever he did, they say he was tempted or set up, because he's in their protected class.

But you see similar attitudes in celebrity fandoms, where the fans blame someone else for their idol's bad behavior and bad decisions, sometimes a manager but usually the significant other. It's how the fans protect their feelings, and really the only way they can convince themselves that egotistical prick who clawed his way to the dead bodies of his rivals is a perfect being, they say he's being manipulated or forced to whatever he did (and this doubly serves the fans in that they can convince each other that their idol needs to be "rescued" and that gives them something to do). So if a celebrity is arrested for drugs, it's because his horrible wife *got him in drugs*. If a celebrity dies of an overdose, it's the girlfriend's fault for failing to save him! If he's arrested for rape or multiple rapes, the victims were all whores or after his money and they certainly took those date-rape drugs voluntarily, etc. It's pathological, and it's seen in a great man fandoms.

It's just that in the Michael Jackson fandom, it's the only time where the victim-blaming is applied to children.

Michal Jackson's fans were not on the Jury. You point moot. If anything the jury were the kind of people who would look down upon MJ just for being black.

Secondly, R481 analysis of MJ is also not a fan. Listen to what he says.

Third, trying to doge the facts by saying anyone who chooses to believe the facts over opinion is therefore a rabid fan, is simplistic nonsensical and lazy thinking.

I can see why people think Wade Robeson has no credibility. He lied under oath and shows himself as a total opportunistic fame whore. He was still clinging onto Michael's legacy until recently and dating one of the Jackson's nieces certainly didn't help. But I believe he was a victim that was abused by Michael even though he's a scumbag adult. That is not mutually exclusive. James Safechuck is absolutely credible, the poor man is traumatized and he felt in love with Michael. Sadly, many abuse victims feel love for their abuser and they don't recognize the exploitation until they are older. The way Michael threw James away once he aged out deeply hurt him. It was absolutely cruel to not just sexually abuse a child but to trick them into thinking it's love.

As for Lisa Marie, Madonna, Brooke Shields, Liz Taylor and Barbra Streisand defending hm. All of those women are damaged and pedophilia was normalized to them. Brooke was a softcore porn child star. Lisa Marie's mom was a child bride to Elvis. Liz was likely diddled as a child star. Madonna is just a whore who even wrote a book that had excerpts of her adventures fucking boys and animals.

"I can see why people think Wade Robeson has no credibility. He lied under oath and shows himself as a total opportunistic fame whore."

A lot of people refuse to believe any allegations unless they come from an accuser who meets their standards for believability, a standard which is usually unrealistically high. They refuse to believe any sexy women, because they're "obviously whores", they won't believe anyone in the lower levels of showbiz because they're "obviously fucking their way to the top", they won't believe anyone poor because they're "obviously criminals", etc. It's a way people protect their egoes and their worldview, they don't want to admit that the world is more dangerous and chaotic than they want it to be, or that people who look good on the outside can be predators, they feel safer if they blame the victim.

And of course the sad fact is, that people who don't lead safe, sheltered, middle-class lives are far more likely to be the victims of crimes than people who do, but people who lead safe, sheltered, boring lives want to believe that being safe and sheltered is the norm, and that people who don't lead safe and sheltered lives should be treated as social outcasts and deprived of the social protections they claim for themselves. And of course, Jackson was smart enough to choose victims who didn't have the option of leading safe and sheltered lives...

Exactly, no shit most of the victims had money grubbing shameless parents, because those are the circles Jackson moved in. James Safechuck is the closest to a “perfect” victim we’re gonna get but of course the Jackson defenders still wouldn’t believe him even if he had a video of MJ sucking his dick. Victims testimony can always be dismissed and there is rarely any forensic or eyewitness evidence, this is rape culture 101 and why the rapist nearly always gets away with it.

Black people who give a fuck that Black , rich rapists and peadophiles have had the law "come after them with more intensity than white men" make me feel bad as a Black woman who cannot stand the BAD male identification that has us fighting battles for degenerates on the regular just because "white people". This shit has to stop. We are becoming a death and rape cult with absolutely no benefit to us as a race. I have also noticed that too many of us feel have to take the Pop Culture burden of outsourcing our sexualities to capitalism, too. Our Western culture has become NARROW with the weakest of us begging for the same Massa that hates us, to love us, as if they do anything for free; thus our secrets being told to them. It's like the Designated Black people have lost the skill of holding their piss, too many of them MEN of all three sexual orientations.

This is why increasingly i have seen that U.S Black Pop Culture is nothing to identify with; it is the worst of white right wing and White left wing excess in Black drag and oh, how Anglo Blacks are so susceptible to it and are now infecting the rest of Black people with it.

Micheal Jackson can burn in hell the same as Hitler; both of them are sizzling right now as the best propagandists to ever do it. There will Jackson fans created in the future who don't give a fuck about his musical capabilities. They will make their name defending him against his paedophilia and nothing else. Just like Hitler gains fans every generation after his death. I always wonder how many poor Black and part Black children were given to Mr Jackson to rape during the filming in Bahia , Brazil of "they don't really care about us". Black men from the U.S been going to Brazil to indulge in sex tourism same as Whitey for a few decades now. And even "poor" in the U.S is different from "poor" in Brazil.

R514, I'm sorry but you are an idiot. That entire post is straight up unreadable nonsense.

R454 I know this thread is old but your post is interesting. I knew about MJ contacting Radcliffe and Columbus refusing it but was really Rowling involved?

I don't understand how anyone could possible conclude that he was innocent.