HBO's White Lotus THREAD FOUR

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I never buy gigolo stories.

If you're at the Four Seasons Maui and see someone like Coolidge lounging the poor, you know her fat, bald husband isn't far away.

It did seem sort of unnecessary R1 and R2, and wasn't even any kind of misdirect. She was watching BLM guy swim laps. All they had to do was show his towel on the chair next to her if they really wanted to hammer home that they were at the pool together.

Mostly was a way to showcase a hot guy with sexy armpit hair.

Isn’t Rachel one step above blogger? And all those bored housewives are bloggers.

Though something tells me Kitty finds that distasteful and will seek to install Rachel on the board(s) of some acceptable nonprofit(s).

I wonder how Connie "I Won't Even Take Off My Bra In a Sex Scene" Britton feels watching the final production and realizing she is on a show that graphically shows people shitting.

[quote]Murray and La Coolidge should both get Emmys for this.

I hope conservative Emmy voters don't let the defecation scened get in the way of a Murray nomination.

[quote] realizing she is on a show that graphically shows people shitting.

I can do that and sing. When will the Season 2 producers be calling?

R3 Sexy armpit hair? That's not a thing.

This show has such a low rating on IMDb

Mike White shows are not for everyone.

Rachel is probably the middle class (maybe even lower-middle-class) child of teachers, nurses, insurance salesmen.

She thinks she has a work ethic because she’s probably been told how “important” it is. But, she really doesn’t.

She is what happens when clueless, stodgy parents raise clueless, stodgy children. I’m sure she was raised religious.

The calculating nature of the world— brought to her courtesy of Kitty and Shane— is what is really shocking to her, though she thinks of it as a career issue.

She’s facing an entire life as a fish out of water in this crowd. Once her looks fade, she’ll be dumped for a younger model and /or their crowd will start to mock her background.

What Rachel doesn’t consider is— what is the alternative? Marry a nice boy and live a few miles from her parents so they can see the grandkids regularly? Many people choose that. Maybe Rachel can teach 9th grade English.

There were also turtles in Barb and Star go to Vista del Mar.

What I don’t get is Shane is a smart guy, he went to Cornell, he’d know better than to remove the knife when you’ve stabbed someone, you keep it in until the paramedics get there.

On thing, since it was prominent, the classical score was a prelude leading up to Armond’s death, but then when we had Quinn in the canoe at the end we again had classical music again and not something like local music that would have fit the scene. Is that an allusion to Quinn dying?

No rich guys ever proposed to me, but I dated some in my young and cute days.

At some point I always got spooked and left the situation, usually because these guys were assholes in a way I didn’t understand.

What you don’t realize when you are young is that most people are assholes. So you can be with a rich asshole or a poor one. Or you can be alone, which works quite well for a lot of people.

Poor assholes tend to be jerks in a way that can ruin your life (financially irresponsible.) So, pick your poison.

[quote]What I don’t get is Shane is a smart guy, he went to Cornell

Cornell is the least of the Ivies. And people like Shane get in the same way people like Don, Jr. get in -- with money and legacies.

[quote]Murray and La Coolidge should both get Emmys for this.

"And 'Best Shit by a Leading Actor' goes to . . . "

Wasn't the cute guy at the pool trying to pick up Coolidge a hooker? Thats the vibe I got.

Of course the gay man dies at the end. Gay men never get a happy ending.

[quote]Wasn't the cute guy at the pool trying to pick up Coolidge a hooker? Thats the vibe I got.

Wow. You have to walk up pretty early in the morning to slip something by you, Miss Marple.

R11 = the clueless ignorance accepting the worldviews and blind justifications perpetuating the structures of power and domination. "That middle class woman, probably religious ha!, should be grateful the rich class even give her the time of day!!"

The whole show portrayed the structures of class and privilege, often tracking along race and colonization. It showed how inevitably such domination won't easily be challenged. Belinda, purse on her arm, walking out on the complaints about the rich husband... "I'm out"... and the final scene of her is the weary scowl on her face looking out at the ocean, the next boatload of the masters come, put on the happy game face. Such is her fate until it's not.

And the masters do just enough (in their self-deceptive, self-aggrandizing warped perceptions) to cover their tracks, anticipate and destroy any challenge to their status. Tanya's "self-deprecation" and "generous tip"... a rumpled envelope with a couple hundred dollars ending a relationship she didn't want to be transactional with a transaction.

[quote]His immediate reaction to stabbing Armond - who really was a major dick to him - was to apologize.

Said above to defend Shane. Such are our standards for the Elite.... well, he may have stabbed the help, but he DID apologize, after all.

And no one has commented on the moment that summed up the moral of the teleplay: Quinn's newly found eternal YES! that springs from his soul released from the digital screens meant to deaden his soul, "I want to live!" Sentimental, of course. And his runaway to the fantasy outrigger racing over the waves... was a fantasy. In such a world, "living" is unlikely. Holden Caulfield on the run. Thelma and Louise accelerating off into empty space. The desire to "live" inescapable, the forces in play preventing that overwhelming.

[quote]His immediate reaction to stabbing Armond - who really was a major dick to him - was to apologize.

[quote]Gay men never get a happy ending.

You think Shane got a happy ending? Living his life with someone who loathes him.

I thought Molly Shannon tried hard, but was pretty much miscast.

Molly Shannon was better than I expected. She managed to tone down her mugging.

I've been seeing interviews with the actors from the show this morning, and almost all of them agree that Rachel will likely leave Shane in a few years. I doubt he has much of an entirely happy ending in store for him.

R25 Perhaps a minority view - but his total relief and emotional vulnerability as he fell into Rachel's arms at the end... seemingly an acknowledgement of how much he knew he needed to change... was some small progress among the privileged overclass in the show. Perhaps the only "movement" to a better world. And that from one of the most repulsive characters seen in many years. Just the poor actor's face itself , raised eyebrows and smirks, are nauseating. Douche.

[quote]Cornell is the least of the Ivies.

What am I, chopped liver?

Cornell is below Penn

But regardless of how smart Shane is or is not, he's never stabbed anyone before and people tend not to think in the moment due to shock.

Darling, the middle class is disgusting in its own way. At least the very rich and very poor see things clearly. The middle classes just eat themselves to death, spout platitudes that aren’t true, and give their money to the church to feel good about themselves. That was the point of my post re Rachel’s parents.

Girls, [italic]girls, GIRLS!!{/italic]

You're BOTH at the bottom of the Ivies!

Was Armond hallucinating (from all the drugs) that he was doing a fantastic job at dinner with the guests? You see the whole waltzing around with a smile on his, orchestra playing in the background, like it's all a seamless dance. It seems a bit surreal.

But then the cut to reality where Shane and the audience see a trembling nervous Armond who looks like he's talking to himself.

R31 Yeah, that confused me too. But it sure was funny, him greeting everyone with a big grin on his face, stoned out of his mind.

[quote]I've been seeing interviews with the actors from the show this morning, and almost all of them agree that Rachel will likely leave Shane in a few years

Perhaps. But I've known women who married well-to-do men and morphed from independent career women into the very same charity wives Molly Shannon's character describes. An abundance of creature comforts can make one complacent. My guess is that Shane would be the one to leave, not Rachel. I've seen that scenario played out again and again.

Rachel was pretty but not gorgeous. Odd casting for a trophy wife, which is usually used to describe the young, hot second wife.

Why didn't Olivia rat out her friend? Guilt over past misdeeds?

Tanya's boyfriend's only redeeming quality was that he wasn't repelled by her. He views her as a vehicle for "fun and games." Very low self esteem.

In the interview posted last night for Vanity Fair, Murray Bartlett said they filmed unused scenes with Armond where it was explained he was a failed actor, and Bartlett said he viewed the seating of the guests as his big performance each night. But he said his idea was that Armond could by this point in his life no longer tell where the performance began and where the real person ended.

At least Cornell is above Brown... the joke of the Ivies...

[quote]Tanya's boyfriend's only redeeming quality was that he wasn't repelled by her.

If I were Jennifer, I would be pissed that they cast that scrawny cadaver as my love interest.

[quote] Darling, the middle class is disgusting in its own way. At least the very rich and very poor see things clearly. The middle classes just eat themselves to death, spout platitudes that aren’t true, and give their money to the church to feel good about themselves. That was the point of my post re Rachel’s parents.

NO ONE WILL EVER SUSPECT I GREW UP IN A THREE BEDROOM ONE BATHROOM RANCH HOUSE IN A POSTWAR SUBDIVISION FILLED WITH SIMILAR RANCH HOUSES AND THAT UNTIL I MOVED TO CHICAGO, ALL OF MY CLOTHING CAME FROM SEARS.

I HAVE MEMORIZED THE PREPPY HANDBOOK I TELL YOU!!

MEMORIZED IT!!!!!!!!!

On a pharmacological note: the white powder, if it was the powder found in the girls' knapsack, is ketamine. The folks snorting it are energetic, happy, leading Armond to go out to his job, his grand performance of seating the customers. Engaging, communication, smiling.

Does not ketamine, while causing a kind of euphoria, also immobilize? The absolutely last thing you'd want on a k-hole high would be out in the midst of hundreds of strangers, talking to them, etc.?

DL drug experts, what say you?

Who was the third bellman at Armand's party?

It was a shame he had them all down to their underwear and no closeups or even a shot of them making out.

Just Armond giving a fairly chaste peck to Dillon (who was waving to the new guests in that final shot, so clearly no repercussions)

[quote] And no one has commented on the moment that summed up the moral of the teleplay: Quinn's newly found eternal YES! that springs from his soul released from the digital screens meant to deaden his soul, "I want to live!"

Yeah. By cosplaying as a Polynesian 🙄

[quote] And that from one of the most repulsive characters seen in many years.

R26, you HAVE to be white.

Jennifer is over sixty and obese.

I am sure she realizes that Greg was as good as Tanya was going to get (except for gigolos out for her money like the guy by the pool).

Some of you have been saying on these threads that Shane "murdered" Armond, and he did not. Armond more or less walked right around the corner into Shane's knife,. Shane did not even know it WAS Armond in his suite--he thought it was the thief who had broken into the Mossbachers' suite, and had physically attacked Nicole and Mark. He did not know at that point Kai had already been arrested.

This doesn't make Shane a good person (he was of course reprehensible), but he did not murder Armond, which was why the police let him go.

[quote]On a pharmacological note: the white powder, if it was the powder found in the girls' knapsack, is ketamine. The folks snorting it are energetic, happy, leading Armond to go out to his job, his grand performance of seating the customers. Engaging, communication, smiling.

Ketamine is a horse tranquilizer. I used it back in my club days. It made me feel instantly disoriented. I became paranoid and hillucinated.

There would be no way Armond would be able to pass out menus. He would think they were playing cards and stand inertly in the middle of the restaurant thinking he had actually fallen on the ground and everyone was staring at him.

R41 Oh, no question. His "solution" was pure fantasy... though one could argue that his "adaption to them and their superior worldview" was different, in substance, from how all the other colonizers forced accommodation from the suppressed classes. But its fantastical (it never happened) image was doubling down on the truth of no one escaping the Great Grey Machine that modern life is. Ripping out souls to leave subservient monads, no matter what your class. I think of Paulo Freire's dictum that these oppressions destroy all, including the upper class.

Here's something more for you all to chew on: Variety's White Lotus Characters ranked from Evil to Pure Evil.

[quote] though one could argue that his "adaption to them and their superior worldview" was different, in substance, from how all the other colonizers forced accommodation from the suppressed classes.

One could not argue that, as the assumption that Polynesian people have a “superior worldview” and worse, buying into their “lifestyle”, is Orientalism 101.

It's Orientalism (Edward Said's ghost thanks you), granted. But it also might just be true.

Anyone else doubting Armond is really dead?

Gee R38, you sure seem to be an expert on growing up poor…

[quote] But it also might just be true.

No, it’s not true. Quinn’s decision to become a Polynesian canoeist is no different to any other number of self-loathing Westerners devoting themselves to any number of “exotic”, “foreign”, cultural practises in search of “truth”, which does not exist in Polynesian canoes or Indian ashrams or Japanese monasteries or African orphanages or Tuscan villas or French cafes.

Quinn’s “enlightenment” is Eat Pray Love bullshit, but it’s butch and not feminine so it’s ok.

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes Jake Lacy to play a sympathetic character.

R34 She's gorgeous

R37 cadaver? He's only five years older than her. You think people in their 69s are walking cadavers?

Connie Britton's hair starts so far down her forehead, it is distracting to me. It's like she's a pre-electrolysis Rita Hayworth -- or her weave slipped.

[quote]cadaver? He's only five years older than her. You think people in their 69s are walking cadavers

It's not his age. He doesn't look healthy. The second he appeared on screen, I thought, "This guy is dying soon."

The staging of the actual stabbing was brilliant. They just sort met in the middle. Great metaphor for the whole thing: no one is blameless

R57 But that's just how the actor looks. He doesn't look like a cadaver to me (like a 90 year old) and doesn't look that much older than Jennifer.

Why didn't Olivia rat out Paula? What good would it do? Her parents would likely be angry with her for being such a poor judge of character. And now Paula is massively indebted to her and will never be free, and never again be close to being equal.

Shane pulled the knife out because he was shocked, and his instant reaction was to try to undo what happened. The look of upset on Shane’s face was more about himself than Armond: “I can’t believe this happened to me! I’m not a killer!”

Maybe Olivia realizes that the robbery ended up benefiting her family more than it hurt them, by bringing her parents together, and didn’t want to see her friend become even more collateral damage. Olivia might be oblivious, but even she knows how quickly Paula would be tossed out of the safety of the Mossbachers’ privilege and ground up for making that mistake.

I'm happy for Quinn but wouldn't his running away cause a ruckus on their flight. I'm sure they are cross-checked who checked-in but did not board. So most likely his parents would know he's missing but just let him stay.

Armond is self-destructing but seems accepting of his fate on his last few seconds.

My heart breaks for Belinda especially the last shot of her waving as she welcomes the next batch of guests. You can feel her pain. The tip Tanya gave to her probably are just all singles.

This cast should be shoo-in to win the best performance by an ensemble..

Are we supposed to believe that Mossbachers are dumb as dirt? They gave the password of their safe to their daughter to put her friends necklace in it and an hour later a thief somehow knew the password? And they never suspected anything? That part of the writing was terrible.

I was expecting for Armond in his last moments, lying there in the bath, bleeding to say something like: "this guy..."

[quote]Connie Britton's hair starts so far down her forehead, it is distracting to me. It's like she's a pre-electrolysis Rita Hayworth -- or her weave slipped.

That's Connie's own bio hair, she even has people dedicating IGs to her hair. The big plus for women whose hair "starts so far down her forehead", when their hair starts thinning, they usually also get a receding hairline, the receding hairline won't be as obvious as it is for women with wide large foreheads.

[quote]My heart breaks for Belinda especially the last shot of her waving as she welcomes the next batch of guests. You can feel her pain.

Mary!

[quote] Are we supposed to believe that Mossbachers are dumb as dirt? They gave the password of their safe to their daughter to put her friends necklace in it and an hour later a thief somehow knew the password? And they never suspected anything? That part of the writing was terrible

Ah, but logic isn’t an issue in a show like this. Rather, “character development”, “white privilege”, “white guilt” and “sitcom shits and giggles” laid on with a sledgehammer.

[quote] It'll be interesting to see how long it takes Jake Lacy to play a sympathetic character.

I first saw him in Obvious Child with the heinous Jenny Slate, he was lovely.

The end brought some things back to where they started if not worse. Although they had make-up sex, Nicole immediately took charge of telling Shane what happened even though Shane asked Mark. You could even see the realization in Mark's face as this happened as he realized nothing changed and he'll never be respected.

I thought Olivia embracing Paula at the end was also a bit symbolic that Paula will always be in her "grasp" now. Her pet to use and abuse as is her whim.

Plot hole here..wouldn't there have been security cameras all through the hallways that would have spotted Kai entering and leaving the Mossbachers' suite?

Why do you think he was arrested, r71?

Jake Lacey was great, but he has such a case of “white douchebro” face, you assume his character is an asshole.

It might have been interesting to see Shane played by an actor who superficially looks like a “nice guy.” Similar to all the dbags Adam Scott (with his cherubic face) has played.

But, most of the casting was pretty on the nose, so they weren’t going for complexity.

Why would Olivia not hate Paula? Paula repaid her parents' massive hospitality by setting them up to be robbed of cherished personal items. Perhaps Olivia knows it's payback fro having stolen Paula's bf. Or perhaps she has bigger payback in store for Paula.

But it seems unlikely that Kai will not spill the beans as to how he carried out the robbery. Paula was in fact is accomplice even though she was not intending to share the loot.

Yes, exactly, R72. So why did they think he could get away with it? Most people consider security cameras when they are plotting a crime.

R71

Jake Lacy played a very sweet guy on The Office. He's believable playing someone sympathetic, unless you just consider frat boy types as being innately unsympathetic. Which I get, mind you.

[quote] I thought Olivia embracing Paula at the end was also a bit symbolic that Paula will always be in her "grasp" now. Her pet to use and abuse as is her whim.

That doesn't seem likely. I would expect Paula will have nothing to do with Olivia when they get back to college. Back stateside, Paula will be out of the jurisdiction of the Hawaiian police unless Kai turns her in (which seems unlikely).

R52 Ram Dass, Aldous Huxley, Alan Ginsberg, B. Alan Wallace, Rupert Spira.... so many tourists who should shut the fuck up in your world. Rules! Rules!

R77 but then Olivia could just rat her out and ruin Paula's life, which I think Paula is aware of.

[quote] Why didn't Olivia rat out Paula? What good would it do?

For realz?

It gives Olivia unlimited power over Paula because she knows the truth and can blackmail Paula with it, thus keeping her under her control.

Ad for Jake Lacey, he traditionally plays the super nice guy boyfriend the hipster girl doesn't appreciate so great to see him playing a different type of role.

The Office, Girls, High Fidelity--he's always the nice, sort of fratty but not obnoxious, kind-hearted Midwestern guy who is no match for the bad boy, even though on paper, he's clearly a much better choice.

Kai was a hotel employee. He should've known the hotel's security system in and out (like, where the security cameras are, etc.). It shows that he wasn't a pro at this and that Paula was the driving force who didn't care what's at stake for him.

I don’t think Shane is any kind of prize, but it’s odd to me that Rachel expects him to devote all of his attention to her until she feels “seen.”

That’s a self-esteem problem and not something Shane can fix for her, even if he were so inclined.

Which he isn’t, because “the money” is what he brings to the table. He is honestly less of a jerk than most rich guys, though that isn’t saying much.

I think older viewers are perplexed by Rachel’s not understanding the trade offs. She seems like a 22-year-old fresh off the farm, not someone who has lived and worked in New York for years.

Rachel is a completely limp noodle inside, she has no self-esteem to fall back on. She’s more like Tanya than she is like a Mossbacher or her mother-in-law.

The police outside of Hawaii are likely not going to care about Paula's complicity in a heist out of state based just on Olivia's word.

And even if Olivia did manage to get them (or even somehow the Hawaiian police) to seize Paula's phone (which would be extremely unlikely), Olivia would be despised all over Bard College for selling out a student of color who was supposed to be her friend and guest.

[quote] Which he isn’t, because “the money” is what he brings to the table.

Don't forget the body, and the big dick.

I have an uncle who is mildly assholic a la Shane. After 20 years of marriage, my aunt thinks of it as him being quirky.

And they aren’t rich.

If Rachel hangs in there, in 20 years she’ll know/anticipate his weirdness. But they’ll be rich.

It would have been ideal if Rachel had somehow made her own money. But she seems to have thought it would fall from the sky, just like she thinks marrying a rich guy will somehow lead to a lifetime of adoration.

She doesn’t seem to understand how things work.

My expectation is Paula plays it very cool, but secretly arranges to transfer to another college and then when they are supposed to arrive on campus next totally ghosts Olivia.

I think that the Mossbachers would have assumed that a hotel employee who could get into the room would also have the safe combination.

All of these intelligent and conflicting theories about the dynamics of the finale only prove how brilliant the writing, direction and acting are in this series. HBO should be worshipping Mike White.

And, no, I'm not Mike White.

[quote]And, no, I'm not Mike White.

Just his PA/flak, apparently.

It's a very good show, but it was not the work of genius. It has numerous big plot holes, as everyone here has pointed out.

Was something wrong with Armond's poop? It was very dark. Maybe he was already dying?

It’s not that big of a deal for Hawaiian police to reach out to other state forces. It’s not like trying to service a warrant out of the US, or something.

R91 it looked like my dog’s poop, honestly. Have to bend and serve my canine overlord for so many years made me much less squeamish about that scene.

In a room safe, the guest sets the combination himself. There would be a master code but only a few top level managers would have it.

In a room safe, the guest sets the combination himself. There would be a master code but only a few top level managers would have it.

Coolidge and Bartlett were definitely the acting stand outs for me. Hope both get the Emmys.

Graphic or not, shitting strangely made perfect sense for Armond character. It was the last truly Earthly, human and natural pleasurable thing he experienced before his untimely and chaotic death.

Finally caught the finale. So they went and they killed off Armond. Can't believe they went with the 'bury your gays' trope.

[quote]Jake Lacey was great, but he has such a case of “white douchebro” face, you assume his character is an asshole.

I find Jake very appealing. He usually plays nice guys. So I think you are imputing some issues onto him. It was nice to see him be an asshole with no introspection.

Multiple contradictory realities can be true at a time and the writing of this show depicts that, hence all the debate. Seeds are sown for many simultaneous motivations.

Rachel doesn't want to be a trophy wife because she thinks of herself as a scrappy, intelligent, independent woman—as she has just taken her vows knowing on some level that she was now a trophy bride.

Rachel stood up to Shane, but while she was standing up to him she failed to stand up to him. She physically postured herself in defiance while she cried and fumbled around for words. She told him basically that she made a mistake, that it was her fault.

Then he insulted her and she told him what she really thinks of him, but still in a frozen, terrified way.

He was cold to her but also pretty patient with her in a way, given the context.

He later threatened her. He told her to think twice about it because she can't possibly know how hellish her life will become if she goes through with it. Then she inexplicably went to dinner with him. Then she left him. Then she met him at the airport and obediently (obeying his mother) promised she would be happy even though she is miserable.

Someone pointed out the setup, and despite that Rachel had so many motivations and conflicts, I agree that she might be truly terrified of him, or that we are meant to have the option of seeing it that way. She looks scared in the final scene. He did threaten her. She spent the entire week watching her husband, who she doesn't know well, harassing and stalking a hotel manager who seemed perfectly nice to her. Her husband was doggedly dedicated to getting even. She told him to leave the poor guy alone and then she looked afraid for a moment by Shane's reaction. And then Shane the hotel manager in private. Given that he threatened Rachel before she decided to stay with him, the writing makes the theory she is afraid of him a perfectly reasonable one.

[quote]The day after The White Lotus ends, Quinn is home, with tight restrictions.

Quinn will have a good story for his application to Kenyon

Jake Lacy says he was disappointed, embarrassed and ashamed that the country decided to elect Donald Trump. So he ain't no Shane! He's an Olivia at worst.

If Kai wants to protect Paula (which it looked like he does since he seemed to fall in love with her), he could just say the Mossbachers did not close the safe properly. I would doubt they would want to come back to Maui for the trial since they got the bracelets back. Of course they will have to come back immediately to get Quinn (they would not leave a sixteen-year-old unchaperoned in Hawai'i), but as soon as they got that settle, I would doubt they would want to go back there.

Jake Lacy was actually for Bernie in both elections. But he's no Susan Sarandon: he's said he doesn't think actors should try to influence how people vote (which is correct).

If we're getting granular here, we have zero idea whether Kai will give up Paula.

The show ends about 18 hours or so after he is arrested. So his lawyer may indeed advise him to come clean and/or a persuasive police officer.

Given that

A) it was a small plane

B) The Mossbachers were all likely sitting together

C) Mark had been checking on Quinn and hurrying him along about 15 seconds before Quinn made his break

there is much suspension of disbelief needed to believe that Quinn made it out of the airport without his parents knowing.

Much more likely, if we're to create a back story, is that they let him stay a few extra days or even an extra week with his father--it's not like they can't afford another week at the resort.

Is that Jake Lacy film Miss Sloane worth a look?

I just discovered Murray Bartlett on TWL and now he's dead! I wanted S2 to carry-over his character with new guests.

I've fallen into a Mike White rabbit hole this week and watched Beatriz at Dinner (which he wrote) and Brad's Status (which he wrote and directed). Loved both films, each devastating in their own way and both concerned with many of the same white privilege issues as White Lotus.

Oddly enough, also tried about 6 episodes of Enlightened and just couldn't get into it at all.

He didn't even get to wipe before he died.

Mike White criticizes white privilege a lot based on his recent works but isn't he still part of that Hollywood elite world of mostly rich white people?

[quote] His immediate reaction to stabbing Armond - who really was a major dick to him - was to apologize. Said above to defend Shane. Such are our standards for the Elite.... well, he may have stabbed the help, but he DID apologize, after all.

Are you really arguing that Shane's behavior was worse than Armond?! I see that R47's link to Variety's rating of the most evil characters has Armond listed as the most evil one.

Mark Mossbacher definitely got berated at length for letting Quinn slip away

[quote]Don't forget the body, and the big dick.

When did they confirm his big dick?

It's shocking how much hairier the gigolo was here vs. other pics of the actor. IN this one he looks shaved but in others he looks smooth like he waxed.

I didn’t see Murray Bartlett’s cock or balls hanging down while he was pooping (and no, I’m not a scat queen).

Best comment I read (elsewhere) was someone saying the biggest suspension of disbelief was that Quinn could have gotten a good night's sleep on one of those vinyl strap lounge chairs.

R88 Why would a hotel employee know the combination to their safe, when Nicole is the one that came up with the password?

That finale was a shit-show!

Master combination R118

You have to figure once a month some guest forgets their combo and the hotel needs an easy way to get into the safe that does not involve breaking it

R120 That's a reach. And how would a busboy know a master combination?

They might believe if Kai had the master key card, he found a way to get the master safe key. Maybe they figured Armond told him while drunk and high.

It's not a reach R120-- it's an actual fact--most hotels have a master combination or master key for that very reason.

It would not have been a bellman (why do you keep calling him a busboy--that's the guy who clears your plates in a restaurant) but rather someone in management or security who had that code or key

JK - you meant Kai-- yes, he was a busboy. And a performer.

[quote]You have to figure once a month some guest forgets their combo and the hotel needs an easy way to get into the safe that does not involve breaking it

and then they also say "not responsible for personal belongings". So aren't they basically saying put your valuables in the safe and if we steal it with the master combo, too bad?

I wasn't impressed.

There are better ways to extract revenge with human feces.

Talk about disappointed!

He took a delicious dump and no one ate it.

One of my colleagues on my faculty--a glamorous woman from a wealthy family--lost all her good family jewelry when she stayed at a very nice hotel in Genoa. She didn't even keep it in her hotel room safe: she kept it in the hotel safe in the manager's office. But the thieves stole the entire safe out of the building (and presumably had it opened at their leisure).

She bewailed the loss of her family jewelry to me, and told me she thinks she was a complete idiot for bringing expensive jewelry to a hotel while on a vacation.

[quote] she thinks she was a complete idiot for bringing expensive jewelry to a hotel while on a vacation.

I was just about to say...

My point, r129, is that Nicole Mossbacher was also an idiot for bringing her extremely valuable jewelry with her. It's like when Mrs. van Gottrocks wears her diamonds to a soiree on "Batman" from the 1960s and the Penguin steals them from her.

But here's a question: those bracelets looked like they were made of solid metal and had no jewels on them. how could they be worth $75K each? Were they made of solid gold and/or solid platinum?

I wish the bracelets had been made out of aluminum foil and looked like it, with everyone playing the $75k story straight and no explanations ever given.

We never found out Mark’s job, but I’m imagining he had to use his savings to buy the bracelets, and it was a way for Nicole to ensure he could never leave.

Wonder if Mike White got some ideas from this case?

[quote]Since the incident, the island has been abuzz with rumors that hotel workers didn’t try to pry Hapgood off of Mitchel because they feared upsetting a wealthy American tourist.

Best overall dialog went to the girls. I liked their evolved but also funny reaction to learning granddad had sex with men. And then there's Armond's perfect line, "Would you like to find out?"

I may have to rewatch because I don't think Shane actually said sorry to Armand when he stabbed him.

[quote] Molly Shannon was better than I expected. She managed to tone down her mugging.

I think she delivered the cutting compliments pretty effectively. Her own little improv's on display - like feeling the wallpaper - but not too hammy.

That finale would have given the GLAAD of the 90s the vapors. WHY MUST WE ALWAYS BE THE PROMISCUOUS, DRUG-ADDLED PERVERTS?

I'm Molly Shannon's age, and I went to college with some women who are wealthy moms now and who went to Miss Porter's (or schools like that). They're nothing like her.

They should have cast someone who can play patrician more easily like Mare Winningham for that role.

I totally agree about the Molly Shannon casting......for me, the only misstep in a brilliantly cast ensemble. She still thinks she's performing skits on SNL.

I like Molly Shannon but she seemed miscast.

I would not be surprised to hear that Molly Shannon is personal friends with Mike White, and that's why he put her in that role.

R141 She was in the 2007 movie Year of the Dog that was directed by Mike White

There was also this

Well, that explains why he cast her in a role she is otherwise so unsuited for. She did grow up in a wealthy town (Shaker Heights, OH), but she is from a large Irish Catholic family that would be nothing like Kitty's.

My guess is that White is also good friends with Jennifer Coolidge, but that in her case he actually wrote the character of Tanya specifically around her. It's almost exactly suited to her talents.

[quote]Why would a hotel employee know the combination to their safe, when Nicole is the one that came up with the password?

There were only about 4 employees at the entire resort

By definition Kai was 4th or 5th in charge

[quote]One of my colleagues on my faculty--a glamorous woman from a wealthy family--lost all her good family jewelry when she stayed at a very nice hotel in Genoa.

Genoa City?

OMG, I missed that episode of The Young and the Restless!

Jennifer Coolidge will always be Stifler's Mom to me.

There should be a separate thread for the story at r133 do you think he should be prosecuted?

R130 the costume designer in an interview discusses the bracelets. They were definitely real and were delivered by armored car to the set from Piaget. If you go to their website, it looks like Nicole's character had the diamond encrusted white gold bracelets that are now going for $88,000.

The bracelets may be expensive but the Mossbacher family dresses like trash

Short Mike White interview covering a few key points.

R145 "There were only about 4 employees at the entire resort" Did you even watch the show?

They're being facetious R152 not literal. The show almost made it look that way bc there was only ever really Armond, Belinda, Dillon, Kai, other hot bellboy, and white blond woman shown for the most part.

Along with the believability of Quinn going awol, and issues around the safe passcode -- I find it a little hard to accept that when an accidental killing occurred just the night before, the perpetrator and the victim's body would both be leaving the jurisdiction less than 24 hours later - no matter how clear cut a case it might appear to be. Maybe just another sign of privilege.

R153 That would be khaki-faced Hitch. and don't forget Lani.

correction : Hutch.

R155 oh right khaki-face. I've never heard that phrase and google doesn't return anything.... I think Jennifer Coolidge was just improving and made that shit up.

^improvising!

Armond was by far the best character on the show, so what's the point of a second season?

Doesn’t massive drug use make one constipated?

The shitting scene was a bridge too far for me. I imagine many couldn't even stomach the rimming scene.

When somebody dies right after taking a shit, but before they have a chance to wipe, as is the case with Armond, is the mortician tasked with wiping the crusty shit from the dead, hairy asshole? Or do they just leave it as is, and bury them for all eternity with a shitty hole?

^^Asking for a friend

I believe corpses get hosed down and maybe scrubbed clean with a loofah on a stick.

Agree R159, The show was terrific, but Murray Bartlett took the show up to another level. He WAS the show. So charismatic and sexy. I loved the way he moved, like a dancer. There's an easy elegance about him.

I wonder if Mike White knew that the show was going to be renewed, would he have killed off Armond? The show was so perfectly cast and Armond was such a unique and fantastic character, that it may be hard to duplicate that magic. From what I gathered, White Lotus was supposed to be a one and done. I would have definitely followed the Armond character for seasons to come, but he's the only one.

I'll still support Mike White, though, but he killed off the best part of his show.

r166, Murray Bartlett is still alive. He made the character come to life as much as Mike White. I'm sure they can come up with someone even more fucked up for the second season.

They can do s prequel.

How did Armond come to be Armond?

Shane was a fucking murderer the police let him go because he was rich.

Murder requires intent, dumbass.

Since the mystery wasn't solved until the last episode, they could record alternative endings à la clue. How fun would that be? Murray could kill Rachel in one after she tells him she decides to stay with Shane. Tanya could break up with Belinda and then literally choke to death on her mother's ashes after they fall back into her face when she tosses them into the ocean. Paula could devise a way to frame Olivia for her own death and for framing Kai and then off herself. Quinn could get on the plane and go off on a bratty tantrum a la Conrad Hilton and then go on killing rampage so the whole plane ends up with human remains. So many possibilities!

Maybe Mike White will go in completely different direction and use some of his experiences from The Amazing Race and Survivor. Instead of a hotel, maybe a group of people going to an exotic locale on one of those expeditions that cater to the people trying to get "woke".

[quote] I may have to rewatch because I don't think Shane actually said sorry to Armand when he stabbed him.

He did.

[quote] Murder requires intent, dumbass

That's not always so.

It's not murder. Armond broke into Shane's room so as to leave a turd in his suitcase, and that could be easily proved by looking at the condition of the body, so he would have been judged to be in the wrong. They could also tell from Dillon's and the othe rboy's testimony he had been taking lots of drugs just before. Plus there had just been a robbery and an attack the night before in the hotel, and no one had told Shane someone had been caught, so his story that he thought the same person had broken into the room to attack Rachel and himself would have held water for the police.

You've offered no justification whatsoever for why Armond's death would be murder either legally or ethically. I suspect you're saying it because you like Armond as a character but dislike Shane. That does not make Armond's death murder: it was death by misadventure,

R174 Shane isn't your boyfriend in real life, only in your head. Your defense of him isn't going to get you in his good graces.

I love talking about the themes and motivations and the ideas brought up by a show like this but do not understand the compulsion to get mired in plot nonsense like Quinn getting off the plane or the security cameras at the resort, how BORING

r175, so since you can offer no defense of your position, you're attacking me personally.

That's so childish and pathetic.

I'm with you, R176. Really love the discussions, but people who obsessively observe THIS PART WAS NOT BELIEVABLE AND I WANT EVERY ONE OF YOU TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT makes me feel like there's an eight-year-old smartypants in the room.

There was NO murder. But Shane would still have to face manslaughter charges.

Also, there may be some continuity issues and the airport scenes with Shane/Rachel and other guest flying out may not have been on the same day or time period? Same goes with Quinn in the airport and Quinn in the kayak scenes.

I can't really blame Shane for the bloody murder of Murray since he was afraid of the intruder, but Shane did drive Murray to self-destruct and so he is a passive-aggressive murderer as well as an accidental murderer.

[quote] Murder requires intent, dumbass

[quote] That's not always so.

Murder requires proof of intent (premeditated) to be classified as murder. Manslaughter is someone killing someone on the heat of the moment (like pushing someone during a heated argument and that someone falls backwards and breaks his or her neck on his or her way down.). And then there's justified homicide that includes self defense. Shane didn't plan on killing anyone on purpose, he had the knife to defend himself against an intruder he thought also broke into the Mossbachers' suite.

Sorry, killing someone in the heat of the moment.

Was I the only one who thought Shane would immediately blame Rachel for shitting in his suitcase? He just found out that she booked herself in a separate room.

Armond could've gotten away with it if he had been sober enough to sneak out of the room quietly.

R184 No, you're not the only one who had the thought. Almost every event in the series could have multiple assumed interpretations by different characters, depending on their worldviews and experiences.

This killing-is-not-murder guy is the real-life version of Shane harassing Murray. His complaints are not technically wrong, yet his obsession borders on deranged.

I found the resolution of the Rachel/Shane storyline to be chilling. That look on her face at the end was brilliant. She's still trying to figure out what to do. It was realistic at least. Maybe she can stay with him for awhile while she works out her options.

And poor Belinda. Her trying to keep it together as Tanya said her goodbyes was wonderful and very moving. I really hope all these actors are remembered come awards season. Everyone in this was so perfectly cast.

I don’t think you could even get Shane on manslaughter. It was an accident in the most literal sense—Armond ran into the knife. To the extent a prosecutor would argue a reasonable person would know it could be fatally dangerous to wander around with a knife out sticking out when you’ve heard another person in your room, Shane would be protected by whatever version of the castle doctrine exists in Hawaii state law—he had the right to arm himself with a knife when he heard an intruder in his (temporary) home. It’s not as if he even slashed at Armond—they bumped into each other.

R187 As discussed by a couple of people above, I interpreted her expression as being in part physical fear of Shane, added to the anxiety of choosing to stay with him. After they had their fight, he calmed down and left her alone. He then returned calmly to their room and told her to lock the door because there's a potential killer on the loose. Later, he told her to be sure of her decision because she can't even imagine how difficult he will make her life if she leaves. And then he stabbed someone to death with the knife he had flashed earlier. So he made a different threat, to use the knife on an intruder, which is highly unlikely, and then he did it. He killed someone. And then he got away with it. So Rachel had the threat he had made against her in her head, and she showed up looking terrified but effecively promising to behave.

The series lived up to its claim of being a satire. It's very dark in the end. Quinn's happily ever after is the only part that doesn't fit and it almost seems like a flight of fantasy except that it wasn't depicted that way. Probably just throwing one happy ending bone to viewers as a glimmer of hope that all is not lost—Olivia can pretend like she is different but isn't different, but Quinn just went along with the fuckeduppedness until he had an escape hatch.

For Rachel it was easier to give in and stay with Shane than having to fend for herself and return to her struggling life. It's a very typical dilemma where people act all high almighty by having these principles (I want to be more than a trophy wife) and then have to abandon them out of fear of letting go of their (new) privilege.

Same goes for Olivia, she acts all high almighty as this anti-establishment SJW, but wouldn't dare to break free from all the privilege her family provides. Quinn on the other hand does that at the end.

Did we ever get to find out what the name of the room that Rachel ended up in the last night? Is there a clue in the wallpaper? Could it be The Papaya?

Dear R190,

The Blowhole, R191

There's no way the local officials would have done an autopsy, investigated and cleared Shane (a lot of people knew Shane was basically harassing Armond, there were no witnesses and it's not like the cops could watch White Lotus), arranged with Armond's relatives on the mainland to ship the body, yada yada, in one day (or even a few days).

Does Rachel even know about the killing? She was pretty annoyed about Shane's obsession with Armond and in that context it's even weirder that she went back to Shane. If she didn't know, would the killing be the final straw for her?

Whatever, it's satire and it mostly worked.

Genoa City? Think that poster meant the wealthy glamorous woman was on vacation in Genoa ITALY.

[quote]They should have cast someone who can play patrician more easily like Mare Winningham for that role.

Mare Winningham? Doesn't she usually get cast as a working class person or a hillbilly?

If Rachel loved Shane, apart from his proclivity for dominating her, couldn't that have been resolved in marriage therapy? Since she didn't have to bring any money in, would he really have stopped her from getting an advanced degree or retraining in a new field? Perhaps he could have been persuaded to fund a business for her. At the very least, Rachel could have used his contacts to build a network for herself. Happy wife, happy life.

Regarding Murray Bartlett coming back, if Mike White said this is meant to be an anthology, couldn't all the original actors return just as different characters à la American Horror Story?

I think we can safely assume that Mike White is wise enough and certainly experienced enough in the TV biz to have figured out that TWL could be a major success with a likely sequel. So if he killed off Armond it was with full knowledge that he couldn't appear in S2.

White has inspired full confidence in me to follow him wherever he goes next in his TV and film projects, with or without Murray Bartlett (who I love!).

There are worse fates in life than having to get fucked by someone who looks like Shane in perpetuity. With money. Cry me a river.

I certainly wouldn't mind it if Belinda carried over into the sequel. And the bellboys in their underwear are, of course, always welcome.

[quote] This killing-is-not-murder guy is the real-life version of Shane harassing Murray.

It's more than just one person.

Do you not understand how to use Ignore-dar to see whether it's one poster or several?

Both Mike White and Jake Lacy have pointed out in the interviews that technically Shane has been in the right: the hotel did double-book the Pineapple Suite, and Armond should have checked that right away and then offered to make up for the disparity in cost (which is probably several thousand dollars). Instead Armond initially doubled-down and refused to admit his staff could make an error.

For me, one of the most jarring plot holes was Kai: no one, including Paula, asked how he was busted. Was he arrested? Was he killed? Did he turn himself in? Did he confess? No one seemed to care or ask any questions when Armond told them the news, which seemed bizarre.

And it beggars belief that he would not have implicated Paula in the heist. A few simple questions from the cops and they would have been able to piece the crime together.

My take on the hot gigolo at the pool was, he was just some extra who was fucking Mike White and was getting paid in screen time.

[quote] For me, one of the most jarring plot holes was Kai: no one, including Paula, asked how he was busted. Was he arrested? Was he killed? Did he turn himself in? Did he confess? No one seemed to care or ask any questions when Armond told them the news, which seemed bizarre.

I thought that was the perfect tragic dismissal of his character and the role he played on the show. He was relegated to a mere footnote. The guy who worked for the very people who stole the land from his tribe. One wrong action, and that was it for him, off the show.

True, R206, but I maintain that it was indeed a plot hole because that kind of indifference to and incuriosity about the person who robbed and assaulted you and what that person's fate is frankly, wildly unbelievable.

Being gay himself, I don’t have a problem with Mike White using the “bury your gays” trope if he would have put a 21st century spin on it. Instead, it’s Armond’s queenie, bitchy, cunty, drug fueled behavior that leads to his death, so not only is he killed, but it’s practically justified by his bad choices and behavior, but if his killer would have been held responsible for it despite all of that it would have been something different. Of course that doesn’t go with the overall arc of the show where the Cis gendered white elites are the ones who remain on top no matter what. Let’s hope he keeps adding gays into future seasons and maybe subverts some of the expectations.

[quote] but I maintain that it was indeed a plot hole because that kind of indifference to and incuriosity about the person who robbed and assaulted you and what that person's fate is frankly, wildly unbelievable.

The Mossbachers got their jewelry back. The alternative would have been to inconvenience themselves to stay longer when Carol was probably needed at work. I could imagine that for Carol and Mark it was a "let the lawyers deal with this! We have better things to do" situation.

Fuck, the character is named Nicole NOT Carol. Sorry.

On a very macro level, the show boiled down to one line: Mark's (and I'm paraphrasing) "People who have power and privilege don't ever give it up."

So you saw WHY they never give it up with the Mossbachers, Shane and Tanya-- the system is perpetually rigged in their favor, White seems to be telling us.

And you saw why people who are adjacent to power and privilege (Paula, Rachel and BLM Guy) don't want to give it up either and will choose to align themselves with the powerful rather than with "the people"

As for Quinn, that can also be seen as another aspect of White's proposition-- fantasy or reality, Quinn will be one of those rich trust fund kids who can play at being a pottery maker or base player or Hawaiian canoe paddler without ever having to worry about actually earning a living the way an actual Hawaiian canoe paddler would. So not giving up privilege either, but rather, taking it to its extreme.

It’s always fun to switch things up and imagine how it could ring differently such as if the newlywed couple was a sugar daddy Murray and his twink and the hotel manager was Jake and straight and how the whole story might have played out differently. Especially consequential would be the sugar daddy seeing the disregard for the honeymoon suite as homophobic and how that might change things in the interpretation and course of events.

Agree with R206, re: Kai-- he's not important to anyone so long as he's caught, it's not their problem, they have their jewelry back.

And Paula is not out of the woods yet R204--Kai has only been under arrest for one day. Quite possible his lawyer suggests he give her up as part of a plea deal.

[quote] Especially consequential would be the sugar daddy seeing the disregard for the honeymoon suite as homophobic and how that might change things in the interpretation and course of events.

A sugar daddy would've retaliated against Armond even worse with him having a chip on his shoulder about being disrespected, despite his wealth and power, for being gay (hinting at self loathing / self-esteem issues).

[quote] And Paula is not out of the woods yet [R204]--Kai has only been under arrest for one day. Quite possible his lawyer suggests he give her up as part of a plea deal.

Olivia will protect her and tell her mom and dad to get lawyers involved to protect Paula from any legal repercussion. Paula is as much a possession of Olivia as Rachel is a possession of Shane, and both Paula and Rachel have accepted their fate in the finale (what happens after everything has settled is anyone's guess).

[quote] My take on the hot gigolo at the pool was, he was just some extra who was fucking Mike White and was getting paid in screen time.

I wish! But that actor is not gay.

The point of showing the hot gigolo was to answer the question why, if Tanya is so rich, she would want scrawny old Greg (the BLM Guy) rather than a rich hot young stud whose services she could just buy (there are often guys like that hanging out at the resorts for the super-rich--I presume this is how Aaron Schock is making his money right now).

White was showing us that Tanya was looking in this case for something more than just sex, and that Greg seemed to want her for herself rather than for her money. That was why she was willing to give up her attachment to Belinda up for Greg: he seemed to offer her the possibility of love as well as sex, while the gigolo would just fuck her for her money.

Is there some reason Tanya couldn’t have just given Belinda some money to start the business? She could be a silent partner.

Maybe Tanya isn’t rich-rich.

The plan Tanya proposed to Belinda would have required a ton of money--she would have wanted to be involved in it, even if she is rich-rich.

I don't think Tanya ever really had thought very seriously about what the plan would entail: she received positive reinforcement on the first day with Belinda when she was feeling especially insecure and vulnerable, and then dangled the money in front of Belinda so as to make sure the love and attention would keep coming. It sounded from Tanya's comments that this has been a pattern for her her entire life. When she's been feeling needy, she uses her money to make sure people pay attention to her emotional needs.

"I don't think Tanya ever really had thought very seriously about what the plan would entail"

Of course she hadn't thought it all out. She is a service worker struggling to get by in expensive Maui and generally being shit on by rich guests. She's drowning and saw Tanya standing there with a life vest. She didn't question it - she just grabbed.

r220, you're confusing Belinda with Tanya.

You're absolutely right, R221. Sorry - I just read that too fast. Nevermind.

R220

That CGI pooping looked real. After Murray committed to the ass eating I was convinced he'd really done it.

[quote]Instead Armond initially doubled-down and refused to admit his staff could make an error.

R203 In E1, right after Shane's initial complaint, Armond admis to the pregnant trainee (I can't remember her name) that he fucked up. His instant dislike of Shane's sense of entitlement forced Armond to double-down.

Jake Lacy is interviewed by the NY Times today, and he says a room like the Pineapple Suite at the Four Seasons in Hawaii costs $26,000 a night. It can't really be that much, can it?

He also thinks it would be very funny if the male equivalent of a "Karen" becomes known as a "Shane."

$26,000 a night?? It was a nice room but nothing great. WTF did it include for $26,000 a night?

I went to law school with a very hot “beautiful people” style couple named Karen and Shane.

Btw, isn’t “Shane” a kinda white trashy name for the son of Kitty?!

[quote]Jake Lacy is interviewed by the NY Times today, and he says a room like the Pineapple Suite at the Four Seasons in Hawaii costs $26,000 a night. It can't really be that much, can it?

I just checked some winter dates for the Maui Four Seasons -- the "Maile" Presidential Three-Bedroom Suite averages $26,143 a night from Jan. 2-9.

What does it incllude???

Well, a plunge pool, obviously.

[quote]What does it incllude???

I’m going to miss this series and continue to wonder how the characters are doing. (Yes, I know they don’t exist outside this fictional universe.)

Wait, so this show actually showed someone shitting?

[quote] His instant dislike of Shane's sense of entitlement forced Armond to double-down.

You're using the languages of Harry and Meghan here: "forced." It didn't "force" him to--he CHOSE to double-down. We are fully responsible for how we behave, even in times of extreme emotion.

Someone who works as a manager at a hotel catering to the very wealthy is going to deal with rich entitled assholes all the time--by doubling down on his mistake as a response to his dislike for Shane, he acted extremely unprofessionally.

Some of you seem to want to excuse Armond for his misdeeds; but even though he is much more likable than Shane, he was genuienly in the wrong. He did not act as a hotel manager is supposed to act.

Never lie at work. Ever. It's just not worth it.

Hi, Shane!

Before I get "Oh Deared" that should have said "bass" not "base" at R211

I thought that was a bit exorbitant too but checking the hotel website, Lacy is right. They filmed at the "Four Seasons Resort Maui at Wailea" and the "Lokelani" Suite is $26,000 per night. From the site:

View Manicured gardens, ground-level, 180 degree oceanfront and islands on the horizon.

Room Size 4,200 sq.ft. (393 m²), plus lanai, lawn and gardens

Bed Options One king bed

Even if I was rich, this doesn't seem worth it. Assuming they're Tahiti hotel is just as expensive for their 2 week honeymoon, and that they flew first class, their honeymoon would have cost around $400,000.

^their not they're

Looking at the hotel site more, and based on the pictures, it looks like the Mossbachers stayed/filmed in the "Maile Presidential Three-Bedroom Suite." Funny, given how everyone was bitching about why Nicole only got 1 bedroom.

In any case, the presidential suite has the same kitchen/galley Quinn was sleeping in and the wooden wall cabinet shelf where the TV is that appears in the show.

Naturally, it's also $26,000 a night but only 4,000 sq feet.

In one interview with Mike he said the hotel was practically empty and they had the full run of it. I still want to know if Lukas Gage was in his hotel room there when the audition director insulted him, because that would be hilarious, even if he was in a bottom range room, which would have cost hundreds if not a thousand dollars a night.

I think the whole point of Tanya, besides being there to demonstrate how elite people use and dispose of working class people, is to show how that kind of psychology works. She says her parents both verbally abused her (She's a victim.) and particularly her mother, and she hates her mother (Mommy issues) but she is attached to her even after death. She'll never free herself but she carries around her ashes being "haunted" and feeling like she is a martyr. She's basically possessed by her. She's a monster made by a monster.

So even as she knows how her mother operated, she (wittingly or unwittingly?) is just like her mother. She even tells people right to their faces who she is, and just like she cared for her mother even when she knew it was bad for her, so does Belinda and so does BLM guy. If you open with "I'm a horrible monster!" most people will be ensnared, telling you you're not, you're a good person. So as soon as she had Belinda in her vice grip, she did to her what her mother would do.

And in the end, she said she was going to break the cycle and stop having transactional relationships as she paid Belinda for her extraordinary services and went off to the next temporary, transactional relationship.

Giving the money to Belinda was passing on the same harm her mother passed onto her in the same way.

And what happened immediately afterward? Rachel came in crying and Belinda began the same cycle, opening herself up to comfort another emotional vampire.

But then Belinda did break the cycle. So she won in a way. She may be down and out and going nowhere, but she's going to be better off than miserable, crazy Tanya.

R247, he said in interviews that NOT getting the role from the interview allowed him to get the White Lotus role. So I don't think he would have been in the hotel room already.

I liked that they didn’t explain the BLM guy’s ailment, so I got to pretend it was covid

BLM guy did say he just got back from a conference in Wuhan...

R243 Thanks, I just went back and although Lukas released the video in November, even the director mentioned it took place in August when they were casting TWL, but I wonder if he knew he had that in the bag and it made it easier for him to be so bold.

The price on that suite is bananas.

I suspect that for the same money or less., you could rent a kick-ass villa complete with staff, where you did not have to share the pool and tennis court with strangers.

Does the price of the suite finally shut up people about the Mossbachers all sleeping in one suite? Let's say it was $10k/night. That's $70k for the week, the same cost as the bracelet the father made such a big deal of. The mother would really be rubbing his face in the dirt if she had gotten more than one suite at the resort.

So Kitty paid $180,000 for seven days in Hawaii plus more for the next leg of the honeymoon.

I wasn't really imagining the family as being that rich.

This is amazing.

A one point I saw mention that it’s all inclusive, so does that mean all your meals and even the bar tab is unlimited, thinking about Shane knocking back all those doubles? Would that include a certain package of Spa treatments as well and certain activities too?

I would think the drinks and food are included, but spa treatments are not

[quote]Would that include a certain package of Spa treatments as well and certain activities too?

Yes, rimming is included.

[quote] in the canoe at the end we again had classical music again

It wasn't classical music but it was native historical Christian music that was forced upon indigenous people when the Christians invaded. So, the choice is quite meaningful. White colonialists rule. Even canoe boy is invading by 'going native.'

r179 is my favorite response on here. Great example of how people go through life just making shit up, guessing, and then taking the time to share their imagination with others.

I don't think it is an all-inclusive R251-- that's not a Four Seasons thing. Breakfast is included in certain room rates (see link.)

But just to show that White is not far from reality, here is a review from TripAdvisor that show what Armond was up against had he been the real life manager.

And many of the reviews mention that people get up at 6AM to snag the limited number of lounge chairs that are gone by 7AM.

As I said at R247, you'd be better off renting a villa.

[quote] We have been here a few times but oh my goodness is it crowded right now. Checked in yesterday and they messed up an allergy order for my son at the pool and I had vegetable stickers on my lunch pickles. I ordered a pineapple (my favorite) drink but the pineapple was brown and over ripe leaking everywhere. No one is masking in the elevators or distancing either. Not feeling the safest with our baby.

[quote] We paid for an ocean view, but Half of our view is blocked by plants so only a corner of our lanai sees the ocean. First time we splurged (normally do garden view) and so disappointing. Crib is also worn and creaky.

[quote] We used to always enjoy the lobby bar. Last night they brought a pizza truck. We ordered very very expensive cocktails and then was told by the server we couldn’t bring our pizza into the lobby because she would rather have someone order food (limited selection) from her. Yikes!

[quote] The service is still good overall. Lots of sweet gifts for the kids, complimentary diapers and sand toys. Very different from our last two visits where I felt we were treated so special. I know it’s a new Covid world, but for these prices, people should be safe, not packed, and better quality on food and room.

[quote] We leave tomorrow and this is the first time here I’m ready to get home. Just too crowded right now and not the same as visits past!

No one will want to stay in pineapple suite now that the pooping went down. Even if on a tv show.

R208 Isn't Mike White bi and not gay?

Was poop really CGI? Not some type of prop and a specific camera angle. It just doesn't look like a show that would use CGI.

From my mother - "Four Seasons and Ritz were great when you guys were little because they'd have Diaper Genies [diaper pails] and all sorts of activities for little kids and babysitters so your father and I could get dinner downstairs and catch a break. But once you were a little older, they were usually too crowded and too many very little kids running around which is why we started getting our own places."

R258 Wikipedia says he's bi but in his Vulture interview he calls himself gay.

[quote] What you want is to inspire debate. Funnily enough, when I was young, I was like, Oh, they’re discounting it because I’m a gay weirdo, and I could be like, Fuck that, they’re losers, they’re bigots. Now it’s like, “Oh, he’s a white, privileged guy.” Like Steve’s character, I was the good guy! Don’t be mad at me! I’m one of the good guys! Well, you still do stand for that. You still are going to be read that way. Your house that has been paid off should be enough of a consolation for the criticism you receive.

Am I the only one bored by the Four Seasons hotel reviews and price lists? Could that maybe be another threat dedicated to luxury resorts instead of the thread about a fictional TV show set at a fictional resort? Maybe? Please?

I agree R262. But what is interesting is how many goddamn heterosexuals with shitting babies go to such a luxury resort. I mean, fuck, I would rather pay extra for a place with a "No one under 10 years old allowed" rule.

Both Kai and Armond (who got fired) had to face the consequences of their actions, because they were the lowest on the totem pole.

Belinda learned her lesson (don't get too involved with guests).

Rachel and Paula, the middle class outsiders, begrudgingly accepted their place within the social hierarchy amongst their richer and more powerful peers.

The rich guests with their privilege by default were able to leave the scene unscathed, fresh and rejuvenated and even better off than they arrived (like Tanya).

And regarding Tanya: Tanya is the kind of person LOOKING for people who see her either as a person they can fix or as a person they can take advantage of. She's loudly advertising her arrival and being ready to latch on anyone who wants the drama to deal with her. The THOT at the pool was supposed to make Tanya look like she finally broke the vicious cycle and grew as a person when she had already found the right person, for the moment, to latch herself to. She freed herself from her mother's ashes, but only after making plans to rent a house in Aspen to be near Greg. I bet after Greg's demise she will go back to her old shtick to find someone new.

Kekoa Kekumano! (Kai)

Skipped over a lot of responses to get here.

R39--the white powder is Ketamine. That was established when Olivia was going through Paula's stash.

R34--I think the actress who played Rachel _is_ gorgeous.

Personally, I enjoyed this show but would hate.to see another season. If they bring back the cast who played "guests" it will be silly. Otherwise, it will be a MA- version of "Fantasy Island."

This made me laugh

White Lotus is a fictional resort. Just because it was filmed in Four Seasons doesn't mean that the prices would be the same. It was supposed to be a smallish hotels since it was s small staff, many people doing different jobs.

This is a well done piece.

[quote] The shitting scene was a bridge too far for me. I imagine many couldn't even stomach the rimming scene.

Where do you find or imagine these delicate sensibilitied people like yourself to be?

R269 YOU'RE a well done piece!

I only remembered the actor who plays Shane from another part where he was a druggie who treated his Mom like shit and then when he got sober because ultra religious and even more of a prick. So I was suspicious of him from the get go. Wish he would have had more repercussions, the murder barely inconvenienced him.

R270 - On planet Uranus, I guess..after all, on this planet everyone enjoys rimming, right?

R272 He was a good actor in a different role?

This was the movie

Both Belinda and Quinn were the lucky ones. They escaped their entrapment. Belinda by sheer luck with Tanya latching onto Greg instead of her (Tanya would've treated her as much as a posession as Shane treats Rachel or Olivia treats Paula). And Quinn found something he could be passionate about all by himself that doesn't involve his controlling family.

R272 Would that happen to be the Mary Kay Place movie "Diane"? I just saw Jake Lacy in the cast and added it to my Hulu watchlist. I think it is highly rated, mostly for her performance.

R277 pardon for the redundancy. R275

What's up with Quinn actor's giant head and short limbs? Does he have some sort of condition?

I'm probably late to the party, but I knew I recognized Murray Bartlett from somewhere; he was in an episode of 'Sex & The City' where he took Carrie to Bungalow 8 since he had a key (he is a little further down on the page).

I had no idea Andy Cohen was in this as well.

That Jacobin review lost me at "Armond (a star turn by Murray Bartlett as a swishy, camp, recovering-addict hotel manager)"

As gay men we know "swishy" and "camp" and there has been much discussion on this thread that Armond was neither to the point we were surprised that Mark knew he was gay

I didn't see Armond as "swishy" at all.

I am fine with his representation as a gay character, though. We've come a long way from Philadelphia and Angels in America's suffering victims, Will & Grace's sexless clowns, etc.

Armond is messy, sloppy, out of control, a drug addict, and self-destructive—like so many nongay characters are. Does he really have to be a tragic hero?

And he was stalked and harassed by the ultimate frat bruh archetype and while he lost his shit in the end (completely intentional pun), despite being in a service position, he always held his ground. He was not a pushover. He wielded his smile as a weapon. When Shane insisted on the upgrade to the more expensive room, Armond smiled wildly and said, "It doesn't have an ocean view, but it has a second toilet. Do you want a SECOND TOILET?" He did self-destruct, but he was pushed to it by the guy relentlessly going after him, and he got revenge and ended things on his own terms, with a wild party, a "perfect dinner service," revenge and a smile on his face in the end.

He was very flawed, but strong willed and unyielding.

What's wrong with that? Would people prefer we still see gay men as we did on Designing Women and The Golden Girls, only brought on as sidekicks to die of AIDS and awkwardly come out to their sisters, teaching the ladies a lesson before never being seen again?

R281 Yeah, that's just some lazy journalist trying to come up with adjectives and falling back on gay stereotypes that do not apply to the character or the performance. It's such a layered performance, it's pretty insulting to Murray Bartlett to characterize it as "swishy" and "camp". Armond was by no means butch, but the most you could say was that, prior to the reveal, it was a character that could have been gay, or could not have been. I wasn't surprised when he turned out to be, but before it was brought up, I wasn't thinking about his sexual orientation at all, since there was so much else going on with him.

If Armond had to be described as a type, then I'd first go to "hotel employee whose eagerness feels menacing." And many of us have met that type.

Then I'd say addict.

Then I'd say lecherous gay man.

R266, the white powder is NOT ketamine. Yes we know there was K in the stash that Armand took from Paula’s bag. However, you can’t do lines of K like you do lines of coke, or like the trenches the boys did. With a line of K this big, you’d immediately pass out in a geyser of vomit (“k hole”). If you paid attention, you would remember a few brief scenes where Armond crushes prescription pills with a glass. That would be the white powder in question.

If Armond was a stereotype, it would be “bitter” - another interview said he was a failed actor.

Either way, Murray is the breakout star of this series.

R286 He's one of them. Sweeney is also a breakout star for sure, and this will be a huge boost to Natasha Rothwell's career. Unfortunately, I think her role was too quiet to call her a "breakout star," unlike Murray's and Sweeney's showier roles. (Audiences love villains more than noble heroes.)

I also think Alexandra Daddario and Steve Zahn will benefit and get a lot more visibility, but their characters were too dumpy to really leave a lot of room to build public excitement about the actors.

Jake Lacy was very successful in making people hate him, and people weirdly carry over hatred for a truly hatable character into their perceptions of the actor. Yet he showed a lot of his worked-out body, which is an easy and surefire way to build a fan base. I'm curious to follow where he goes from here.

The actor who played Kai did the same. Of all the cast members of color, he might have a future because of his looks. I liked the actress who played Paula, but I do think audiences probably don't care about the actress because the character was such a sad case in the end.

I’m happy to see Steve Zahn doing well and working consistently, too.

I can't imagine ALL of the principal actors won't see a huge boost to their careers from this show.

I'd never heard of Jake Lacy before watching this show (I watched "Girls", but I have no memory of him on it), but I googled him, and several articles referred to the fact that he was known for playing nice guys. One article called him "America's boyfriend".

If that's the case, this was a great way to flex his skills as an actor and break out of the type of roles he'd been getting.

Agree R290-- was just going to post something similar.

I was aware of Lacey from his roles on Girls and High Fidelity where he played similar characters--the nice guy straight-laced sort of preppy boyfriend who puts up with the girlfriend who really would prefer a crazy bad boy type and knows that all Lacey's character wants out of life is a good job and a nice house in the suburbs where he can coach Little League and soccer and she sees herself as being completely beyond that.

So yes, the range he showed here should be very helpful... and he got to show off his banging body too,

R288 And with big balls like that he might get a good following on some niche fetish porn sites.

R292, those were fake, right?

[quote] I'd never heard of Jake Lacy before watching this show (I watched "Girls", but I have no memory of him on it), but I googled him, and several articles referred to the fact that he was known for playing nice guys. One article called him "America's boyfriend".

like a previous poster, my lone, prior exposure to Jake Lacy was in "Diane," so I had no history of seeing him only as the good boyfriend type; unlike most posters, though, but in accordance with the Variety reviewer, I found the Armond character more odious.

Oddly, the only thing I remember Jake Lacy from was his short time on The Office years ago.

R281 R282 The character was "smarmy" and "unctuous"... which if you're gay I guess means you're "swishy" and "camp".... to that tone-deaf critic.

Having said that, I immediately assumed the character was gay, from the first scenes. Do I have internalized homophobia?

I just finished the show and I totally didn't get it. It just seemed pretentious, boring, long, and the characters were all deeply unpleasant.

Why all the love?

Apparently nobody saw Jake in Otherhood playing a gay son annoyed by his mother played by Felicity Huffmann.

R152, I agree that the employees were thin on the ground and so were the guests. It would have been more realistic to have had more employees visible, in the spa for instance, and more guests doing scuba, etc. Focus on a few families, sure, but give some richness to the background, including a few random interactions.

I suspect that had more to do with Covid restrictions R299 than any sort of artistic or financial decision.

R216-Like that makes a difference to an actor.

[quote] I just finished the show and I totally didn't get it. It just seemed pretentious, boring, long, and the characters were all deeply unpleasant

After watching the first episode, I found the plot development being barely discernible and meandering, and wondered what the point of this show actually was. The characters seemed lifeless and without affect, which was the intent, of course, but not so glaringly obvious just yet.

I don't recall exactly why I decided to continue on, but I think I was motivated in part due to the first WL thread on the DL in which posters provided some interesting and insightful observations, and in particular, on a key moment that I had somehow missed—the opening scene with Shane at the airport in E1, an important introductory hook.

I'm not a fan of the vast majority of series TV, whether they're network, cable or streaming, but I do find that HBO, overall, offers the best produced and written shows. I subscribe to Netflix, but not to Prime, Hulu, etc., so I can't really offer an assessment of those latter services.

I really enjoyed it, just my type of show. I don’t think they can catch lightning in a bottle though for another season but I will most likely watch it.

Swishy and camp! How insulting. I found Murray Bartlett's performance to be a fully fleshed out , believable character who pretty much was the anchor on the show who was impossible to take your eyes off of when he was in a scene. He could have played it campy or over the top, but he tuned into the character's flaws and frustrations and made him totally human and tragic. The only time he was a little over the top, and delightfully so because the scene demanded that kind of performance, was when Armond was high on drugs and giving the guests the dinner service of a lifetime. It was like watching him performing Swan Lake while handing out dinner menu's and refilling wine glasses.

I'm not seeing Quinn as much of a colonialist, as many of you are asserting, since the Hawaiians specifically asked him first to paddle with them and then to join them for the big expedition.

I found the ending disappointing. Did not want to see Murray crushed to dust. Wanted Rachel to be less of a simp. Glad Belinda brushed off Rachel--she's not a free therapist--but she needs ton show some resolve and peddle her business plan elsewhere. Disappointed that Tanya settled for the drippy loser on the verge of death. Wish Kai hadn't taken the bait. I realize that White was making a point but it makes all his characters unlikeable on some level.

Please remember that Belinda gave Rachel her business card with her cell phone and encouraged her to get in touch if she needed support. Rachel did not come to Belinda unsolicited.

But, of course, I applaud Belinda ultimately brushing her off after suffering Tanya's machinations.

I

Those of you complaining of the lack of employees at the resort....were you not watching closely?

There were lots of employees at the restaurant, bar, spa, poolside....they just didn't have lines or close-ups.

Didn't Belinda give Rachel her card before Tanya fucked her over? I think Belinda was riding high at that moment, thinking things would be going well and hey why not catch another rich white lady for when she has her own buisness? Aww poor Belinda

[quote] I think Belinda was riding high at that moment, thinking things would be going well and hey why not catch another rich white lady for when she has her own buisness? Aww poor Belinda

By that point Tanya was already brushing her off to be with Greg. She didn't want to talk about the proposal or even look at it, she was all Greg this, Greg that.

The show made Belinda look too naive to still being hopeful that Tanya would go through with it, when it was clear as day that Tanya has moved on.

R309,Belinda wasn't trying to catch another rich white lady. She genuinely cared at the time and wanted to help Rachel, but, after having her own dream shattered and once again, not being "seen", knowing that she's stuck in a dead end, thankless job, she just didn't have it in her to feel bad for this pretty, rich white woman's problems.

I also think that Belinda was initially genuinely concerned about Rachel, as Rachel's crying wasn't explained at the time - she could have been unsafe, etc. But when Rachel came to talk to Belinda and explained that her "problem" was that she was now married to a rich man and would be 'a plus one for rest of her life', Belinda had no tolerance for such "problems".

Belinda's big problem was that she wanted to be seen by rich people aka valued by them and she (finally?) learned it the hard way that they don't care for her. They take whatever they need from her and then wave goodbye to go back home. She's just a member of staff making the guests feel special, which is the staff's job after all (as Armond pointed out at the beginning to the trainee).

R292 was fooled by a dildo and rubber balls.

I never felt that Belinda "wanted to be seen by rich people aka valued by them..."

She simply wanted to open her own spa and make some decent money. She even talked to Tanya about the notion that this spa would be frequented by women of all economic backgrounds.

r315, she wanted Tanya to see enough value in her to invest in her proposal. What else do you call that other than being seen and valued by rich people who are rich enough to invest in her?

And she even tells Tanya that it's nice to be seen! Are you implying that Belinda just said that to manipulate Tanya into giving her money?

Anyone seen that movie Otherhood that R298 linked to? Worth watching?

[quote]A one point I saw mention that it’s all inclusive, so does that mean all your meals and even the bar tab is unlimited, thinking about Shane knocking back all those doubles? Would that include a certain package of Spa treatments as well and certain activities too?

For $26,000 a day, one would assume *everything* was included in that absurd daily price, including the tips for anyone the staff helped. The tips were likely not included, that would likely be at the discretion of the guests, especially how much in tips they'd want to give to the staffers they directly dealt with.

$26,000 a day seems absolutely ridiculous, even for a millionaire. The resort in this series didn't seem very special.

The hotel is on a secluded island where everything has to be shipped in. No airport travel. I think the price reflects that kind of service where rich people still get whatever they like on their holiday at a secluded island.

Did not take that away R319

Shane was at the airport on the island.

The VIP guests took a boat from the airport to the hotel--everyone else had to take a taxi or a bus the hotel provided.

Belinda should have used the big-eyed-girl to test for her intended business.

A doctor practices on a corpse, and Belinda could have practiced on an emotional corpse too.

My partner, I think correctly, pegged this as a modern, more conscious Agatha Christie story. That made a lot of things click for me.

R306 I think a characteristic of White's work is to have us like characters who are very unlikeable.

R322 One could call it a "mystery of manners"....

R313 Disagree. I think the Belinda character as written and played was genuinely empathetic... caring about others. Maybe the only one in the teleplay. Related - as she first helped Tanya, and again in a second session, Belinda sang/chanted something. I am assuming it was in Hawaiian, but not sure. Anyone identify what she was singing?

r325, the closed captioning said it was in Sanskrit, which would make sense since she was peddling New Age Buddhism.

R323 In other words, he writes realism.

I agree with you, r325 (and somewhat disagree with r316), in that I believe Belinda was written and portrayed to be a genuinely caring person who initially made the extra effort to help Tanya (with the first massage) out of an innate generosity. It was only as the relationship developed with Tanya always leading the way, insisting that Belinda should open her own spa and Tanya would finance it, that pushed Belinda to realize her own worth.

Ultimately, yes, Belinda was pleased to "be seen" and appreciated by Tanya. It's what makes Belinda's final scene with Rachel so powerful.

I’m rewatching the first season of True Detective. Amusingly, in the second episode, there’s a scene where Woody Harrelson eats Alexandra Daddario's ass.

[quote] What's up with Quinn actor's giant head and short limbs? Does he have some sort of condition?

It's known as thespiandoplasia. Historically afflicting many in the community. No known cure.

Haven't you noticed the preponderance of actors with huge heads and small bodies? Rampant in the movie & tv industries for years, and even on Broadway, it is now in a natural idiopathic decline. Possibly why Fred stands out among current crop of actors.

[quote] It'll be interesting to see how long it takes Jake Lacy to play a sympathetic character.

IMDB has him in a Sorkin drama about Lucy & Desi, with Kidman and Bardem as the comedic couple in crisis. Lacy plays the show writer Bob Carroll Jr. in his younger years.

It’s a tribute to the series that everybody talks about these characters as though they were real people.

I miss Armond

Don’t all these rich people have travel agents that get them good deals? Why are we discussing the “list price” on these suites?

[quote]What does it incllude???

Free spellcheck.

[quote]The hotel is on a secluded island where everything has to be shipped in.

Then why do all the employees have cars?

To get around the island? To get home?

R330 What are you talking about, what community?

"Haven't you noticed the preponderance of actors with huge heads and small bodies?"

No, i haven't.

[quote][R322] One could call it a "mystery of manners"....

How ironic, especially as few rich people have manners, especially the nouveau riche. Entitlement has little to do with having manners and a sense of decorum. The rich step on everyone they feel are beneath them.

Jake Lacey was thrilled to play a total asshole

Sorry if this is has been posted, but did anyone else fall in love with the lamp on Armond’s desk? I have a pair on the way for my nightstands!

Cute!

If you loved White Lotus do not, I repeat DO NOT watch Hulu's latest miniseries Nine Perfect Strangers starring Nicole Kidman's wigs and attempt at a Russian accent. Horrible as it is, it has the exceptional misfortune to follow so closely on WL's coat tails. I've only seen Ep. 1 but it also begins with an ensemble of disparate characters arriving at a resort.

Everything, from the casting to the costumes to the setting is sadly inferior to WL, not to mention the cliched writing and acting. A real miss for Hulu.

The writing is ALMOST as bad as Kidman's accent. The first 10 minutes is ALL exposition telling us how magical the place they're already heading to is - as if the people in the cars, already on their way, need to evaluate a decision they've already made and paid for.

R341 Did you get the Hoe lamp?

R343 I kind of enjoyed the first episode, but for all the reasons you did not. I may continue to watch, just with exceedingly low expectations as far as depth or quality.

Places, everyone, places.

[quote] I have a pair on the way for my nightstands!

perfect in your next Zoom backdrop. a RoomRater 10.

I am trying to find the link for the original white Lotus post all I can find is 2,3 and 4

Help.

$26,000/night is peanuts for ultra luxury travel market. Dorchester/Claridge's/Corinthia/Four Seasons all charge about the same for their most expensive properties in London. Also price has nothing to do with the size or what's included (mostly those rates include nothing else, just access). It mostly reflects the demand for a very small number exclusive properties for the rich.

Said that. I am not sure if I would put the hotel depicted in WL in that exclusive category.

R330 Nancy Reagan also had the 'huge head little body" thing going on.

[quote] $26,000/night is peanuts for ultra luxury travel market

Don't tell Quinn, he'll lose his fucking mind. and Paula will have a migraine.

[quote]Nicole Mossbacher was also an idiot for bringing her extremely valuable jewelry with her.

But of course she would bring them with her. It's her way of reminding Mark of his infidelity and that she holds the power in their relationship.

[quote] I miss Armond

He's a character in a fictional story, honey.

Belinda was basically the sheep and Tanya was the wolf. And Belinda got involved with Tanya anyway.

Enjoy your lamps, White Devil…er, r341.

Yes Tanya was surprisingly callous when backing out of the plan - she didn't seem at all phased by Belinda's obvious level of upset. Love that she smilingly came back for her sunglasses. But in the end she did Belinda a lot of good - by getting her to value her talents enough to consider going out on her own. After the initial hurt and disappointment passes, I think Belinda will realize that, fish the business plan out of the trash, and start looking into other sources of funding, more reliable partners than Tanya could ever be. She's got her loving son for moral support and encouragement. And most of all she's got character.

And most, most of all, she's got an envelope stuffed with cash, courtesy of Tanya.

Will she know what to do with the seed money?

I'm really surprised people thinn Tanya made a big fat cash investment in Belinda. She gave Belinda a tip. It was probably a couple hundred bucks in singles and gives. It was a tip envelope, not a capital investment with 'seed money' for a business. Tanya already gave Belinda a wad of cash after the first massage and it clearly did not translate into a small business loan.

As noted earlier R358, just as likely that envelope only contained a few hundred in fives and singles--women Tanya's age often bring along an envelope like that so they have bills they can dispense as tips rather than having to constantly run down to the front desk to ask them to break a 20.

Rich people like Tanya don't carry envelopes of $1 and $5. They carry $100s.

Belinda got seed money, and it's stupid to pretend otherwise.

If she can't use it to move forward with her business, then that's on her.

R361 You think Tanya gave Belinda a fistful of $100 bills in episode one?

Final episode

R363 She handed Belinda handful of cash in episode one after her first treatment. Belinda smiled and waved and so she handed Belinda more cash to get her attention.

You said Tanya doesn't carry small bills, only hundreds, so by that logic, you're saying Tanya gave Belinda many hundreds after her first massage.

[Quote] Rich people like Tanya don't carry envelopes of $1 and $5. They carry $100s.

No one carries cash. Everyone uses credit cards

Yes, I know as much as you, r364, about what kind of cash rich old white women carry in envelopes on tv shows.

Tanya is a needy mess predator. She throws money around to lure someone into her web to suck them emotionally dry. I could see her in the beginning to tip big to gain people's attention and trust. After being showered with compliments by Tanya, Belinda confides it's nice to be seen. That's when Tanya knew she got her victim during her stay. She lets go of Belinda when Greg comes along, since he will last beyond the hotel stay.

I do not know many rich people but I had a grandmother who was well off.

When she died we found cash hidden all around the house. The freezer, canning jars in the basement, under the mattresses, some of the bills dated back to the 1940s. Based on the terms of the will her kids each got 100,000 and grandkids 10,000 from the CASH.

Yes, R367, and Rachel similarly lured Belinda in with her tears. I relate to Belinda because I just can't not want to console people who are hurting, even when those people don't deserve consolation, and it has gotten me in irritating situations all my life.

The final episode did an incredible job of flipping my view of Rachel. She was long suffering, but she really had no backbone and I ended up realizing that her situation was inevitable. When she "told Shane off," she stood there crying simultaneously, making her look weak even as she said cutting words. There's no way he couldn't see how weak she is because I could see it. Then she made the poor choice to stick with him for dinner. Then she got her own room and called Belinda—and yes, Belinda gave her her number and offered to be there for her. But what did she actually say to Belinda? While sobbing, she told this black lady whose job is to serve rich people, that she is on her honeymoon with a super rich guy who is kind of a jerk and she just broke up with him because he is fixated on how hot she is. If only she could hear herself.

Rachel could have expressed herself differently with a different focus: I just don't know who I am, I want to be a person with integrity whose worth is based in what I do with my life and not throwing money around at people because money and superficial things don't keep people from misery and always corrupt their characters.

Had she said anything like that, she actually would have helped Belinda to realize that Tanya and everyone else with all the material wealth are miserable as fuck, and if Belinda believes in any of the zen stuff she sells to rich people who ask her to help them, then she might realize she doesn't have it so bad and she may be happier and a better person than they are already.

Instead, Rachel told Belinda that Rachel has it all: youth, beauty, money, a husband, a fairytale wedding and honeymoon, but that it's not enough, and then Rachel expected Belinda to console her as everyone else probably always does.

Mike White revealed in his Vulture interview that he didn't write more about any of the people of color's lives because he doesn't feel he has the authority to tell their stories. I think that's fascinating; I don't know if I have ever heard of a writer being only semi-omniscient about the people in the world they created. He seems to have had unlimited insight into the motivations and private lives and thoughts of all the white people but none of the nonwhite people, leaving them as peripheral but not shallow.

So we don't really know what Belinda's life is like because her author doesn't.

Is she struggling and miserable on a day to day basis? I didn't get that impression. She lives in Hawaii and she is trained in Eastern meditative practice including singing in Sanskrit. She has a son and her son encouraged her to take the opportunity that was presented to her but otherwise I didn't get the impression she is desperate in any way. She seems relatively content. She looks weary in the scene when she arrives to work early and yawning but that would apply to all the hotel staff. And despite being hotel staff, she isn't desperate like Kai is or broken like Armond was.

Since White doesn't know what her life is like and my mind is filling in the blanks, my read is that Belinda "wins" in the end in a big way. She's got an OK job, she didn't break down and lose it all, she is learning to draw boundaries and she seems less miserable than almost any of the rich people.

Olivia is a rotten person; Nicole is widely hated for running an evil company and her husband cheated on her; Mark is a buffoon with an inferiority complex; Rachel signed a deal with the devil, erased her signature and then signed again in blood; Shane killed someone and learned his wife sees him as a disgusting baby-man; Tanya's on another crash course and revealed to Belinda that she sees herself as "nothing but a crazy alcogolic"; BLM guy is about to croak.

All the Hawaiian people are fucked into oblivion by the colonizers, but Belinda is A-OK, all things considered.

[quote]Yes Tanya was surprisingly callous when backing out of the plan - she didn't seem at all phased by Belinda's obvious level of upset.

You must have somehow seen a different version of the episode than I did.

It mights be 10s or even 20s, but it ain’t 100s. The only thing guests at a resort like that use cash for is tips. I imagine that was her tip money for the week and I’m sure it didn’t exceed $1,000.

Late to the party, waiting to binge-watch all 6 eps. I loved it: sick and smart and very funny. Like all Mike White projects.

[quote] Rich people like Tanya don't carry envelopes of $1 and $5. They carry $100s.

More magical thinking from DL

I think it's clear that the tip envelope wasn't seed money but only a wad of small bills because Belinda is there with a smile on her face to welcome the next crowd of tourists. If Mike White wanted to tell us that Belinda was moving on, he wouldn't have included her in that final scene with the other resort employees.

And, of course we see Belinda shove the envelope of bills in a drawer like it wasn't really much.

Are we sure it wasn’t Monopoly money, she just that wacky and out there.

Agree R359. I'm guessing it was about $400 or $500. Had Tanya not led Belinda on and raised her hopes of starting her own spa, she probably would have been thrilled by the tip. Instead Tanya's gesture was insulting and belittling.

R358, seed money? Starting a spa can exceed $100,000. Do you really think there was that much money in the envelope?

R375 - you're right. And not only that, but Belinda looked miserable right before turning on the smile to greet the new guests.

So not only was she not moving on, she was deeply unhappy about having to remain there.

She didn't gave her the envelope full of ones. She's not a monster. And that wouldn't be in her character. And everyone saying people don't carry around envelopes full of hundreds...what makes you think she came to Hawaii with that envelope? Couldn't she just get the money from an ATM before coming to say goodbye to Belinda?

Also, she never said she's cancelling their plan, just that she needs to think about it.

Please stop beating me!

R375 That's stupid. You think she would quit her job if she got 10K from Tanya?

[quote]Also, she never said she's cancelling their plan, just that she needs to think about it.

Tanya will never see Belinda again. She got what she needed from her and now she's moved on to her next victim.

R383 Victim? You people are ridiculous

R384 yes, the people who emotional vampires take advantage of can be described as "victims"

r82, Shane is a prize in my book. A prize that will require sacrifices, but a prize none the less. He opens doors for his women. He provides financial security and clarity regarding expectations. I actually like that you know exactly where you stand with him. He also is doting on his wife. She just can't communicate, which may be why she's a terrible writer.

I'm preparing for a vacation right now. Work is stressing me out as I juggle preparing for my trip and handing over work projects to my team. It's a lot (of 1st world problems). Rachel will never have to stress about work. Her husband's got that covered. In my situation, she'd get to worry about which outfits to bring or excursions to take. Or maybe if she can fit in one more workout with her trainer to be beach and bedroom ready.

I absolutely hate working if Im being honest and would love to be a kept man with a ring on my finger and the freedom to do charity work at my own pace. I struggle to have sympathy for Rachel because Shane is fit, loving, and easily manipulated if you play your cards right.

Sorry bitch, give him up because there are tons of us that would accept that deal.

A woman with a strong personality could handle Shane fine (“Honey, stop bitching about the suite or else I’m getting my own room”), but Rachel is so weak, she can barely get the words out to speak her mind.

R387, I don't think Shane would have married that woman.

Sorry, R386, it's hard to live with a partner you don't respect, whose behaviour annoys you, and whom you possibly fear. And even Bunny MacDougal didn't crash her son's honeymoon.

But as I said in my earlier post, if Shane's domineering behaviour (and his mother's astonishing lack of boundaries) can be curbed via marital therapy, Rachel can hang in there until she's on firmer ground either in terms of a good settlement or her own career.

R387, that's exactly why Shane married a woman like Rachel. Shane can't control or have power over a strong woman. Rachel, however, he can boss around. She's a doormat.

Who do you think you are most like?

Outwardly, I think I am most like Belinda. Inside, I feel too much like Armond for my comfort and as a teen behaved a lot like Quinn, just immersing myself in my own reading/games and avoiding interactions with people, and I did eventually connect deeply with nature but not with Polynesian paddlers! I wouldn't have had the nerve to run away.

I think I've got some Mark and probably some Olivia and Paula in me. I have little in common with Tanya, Rachel, Shane or Nicole. I can be self-indulgent with my woes like Tanya is, but I don't involve other people in it.

[quote] Couldn't she just get the money from an ATM before coming to say goodbye to Belinda?

No, she couldn't. You cannot get that much cash from an ATM over one week.

[quote] Who do you think you are most like?

I suspect a Facebook meme of "Which White Lotus Character Are You?" already exists.

R380 How many millions do you think Tanya's ATM coughed up in one day? My daily ATM cash limit is $1,000.

It's interesting that in this whole story of white privilege, class, race, rich people are monster, the biggest villain ended being not wealthy young girl of colour. Paula convincing Kai to steal from family who took her on vacation and in the end not warning him, pretty much ruining his life, was the only truly villainous act in the whole season.

Shane is, as Rachel rightfully said, a whiny baby. The moment there was a problem, he immediately called mommy. Why do you think she was there in the first place? Shane couldn't stop complaining about how horribly mean Armond is, how they didn't get the suite they booked, and how Rachel is not saying yes to everything he says. He can't process conflict like a mature adult. When Rachel defied him, what did he do? He flirted with Olivia and Paula right in front of her.

I wish they had shown Dillon and Hutch spit-roasting Armond during the farewell drugfest.

^Maybe in the behind the scenes footage?

^Or in the “behind scenes” footage!

Their courtship was quick, a solid gold digger would know the role to play with Shane then flip the switch after the wedding. I assume he just wanted to be married since he was hitting the start a family stage. His mother would be a hard one to crack, but again, a smarter girl would have just smiled through it all to reach the goal of Shane's money. His mother thought that's who Rachel was anyway, so they aren't opposed to gold digging trophy wives, as ling as they play their role.

Rachel is a plum fool for falling apart so quickly.

The mother in law wouldn't have been there if Rachel would have taken some control of the situation or sided with her husband. She just shut down the same way she accused Shane of shutting down on her (which he didn't). As another poster said, she needed to speak up but she wilted which made room for his mothers to slip in.

I also thought the envelope was about 5-10k in a variety of bills, from ones to 100s, all for the reasons already outlined.

What I think bears mentioning is that, at a resort where the suites could be over $20k a night, Tanya wouldn't have viewed this as an investment; it's tip money. It's also not going to get Belinda seed money for a spa; what it can do is pay her rent if she goes out on her own, or pay for more professional opportunities to network. It takes money to make money.

The only reason that Tanya gave her the envelope with money is to be able to "disengage" with as little interaction as possible. Not even to assuage guilt, but just to expedite the ending. Buying Brenda's silence, as it were.

And it was no more than $1000.

ENOUGH WITH THE FUCKING ENVELOPE OF MONEY!

Unless one of you are the show's Prop Director, NONE of you know how much it is. NONE of you.

STFU about the fucking envelope, you ass-cunts.

Thank you R403!!!!!

None of us know and I think it was ambiguous for a reason. Let the mystery be.

It was precisely $917 and I will not be argued from my position. This is important to my self-worth!!!!!!!!!!

Did Tanya throw some loose coins into the envelope too? If so that could be just enough for Belinda to open her spa.

Having that envelope of cash ready could imply that this wasn't Tanya's first time to ditch someone. I mean, sure, rich people are supposed to have some cash to tip, but this seems a bit excessive for just a regular tip even if the suit is expensive.

Of COURSE they killed another gay character, because why not. Bury your gays is not an overused trope at all, nope. Oh wait...

PACKING LIST

• Green caftans (4)

• Swimsuits (6)

• Sun hat

• Shoes/evening

• Shoes/daytime

• Shoes/pool

• Large envelope of cash in case I imply I might go into business with someone and then renege on the deal and ditch them again

• Sleeping pills

• Flask for plane

• Mom's ashes

I can't consider Paula a "villain." She's idealistic, impressionable, youthfully stupid, overly empathetic, resentful, impulsive.

Just like most of us were at 19.

R403 = thought HE should get the envelope with the $1200 in it.

I know with complete certitude that the envelope also contained Green Stamps.

R411 = has major OCD and obsessively counted the number of salamanders in the opening credits EVERY time.

Can anybody link to Amy Siskind’s tweets?

r409, you forgot the 4 sets of Spanx!

People are annoyed with the envelope of money debates but no one did anything to stop the 100 $26,000-a-night-at-the-real-life-Four-Seasons-which-is-not-the-White-Orchid posts.

[quote] Olivia is a rotten person

Olivia is a sweet girl. Smart, with a good sense of humor. She loves her parents and mocks them when appropriate. Sufficiently abusive of her brother for her age. A little stunned by how foolish her friend actually is, but aware enough to take advantage of that. In the end, admirable.

I guess my family is just uptight, but I was surprised how much the Mossbachers talked about sex/masturbation with each other.

Olivia is a calculating sociopath manipulator and slut closet bi who fucks her friend's men and hit on Kai.

Sydney Sweeney played her perfectly.

R357, my partner said while watching Episode 1, re: Tanya and Belinda, "That's not going to happen." I agreed. I've known people like Tanya--they want their needs met and will hold out a carrot of support to get you to go all out for them, but it's always provisional and never materializes. My partner knew an architect who was going to do a house for Cher, until she explained to him that she wouldn't be paying him, because "he'd get a lot of recognition" from doing her stupid house. He refused.

I think everyone but the least intuitive of people knew from the moment Tanya made the offer that she was going to tease Belinda and then fail her. I don't think that relationship was written to give us hope that Belinda would be helped but instead to show us in real time the damage that people like Tanya create. It didn't seem from the tone as if we were supposed to think there was any chance Tanya would make good on being an altruistic person. She's not a good person—just a crazy alcoholic, as she said—but we did get to see why she is the way she is and feel some pathos for her and for the people she latches onto.

I agree R421!!!

Comparing the opening episodes of White Lotus with Hulu's 9 Perfect Strangers is truly a perfect lesson in screenwriting and TV direction. Both series begin by introducing us to mostly unlikeable characters, obnoxious strangers who are forced to interact in a luxurious exotic setting, yet Mike White managed to make his characters thoroughly engaging and complex. 4 days after the finale, we're still talking about them (and have even moved on from the actors to the characters they portrayed). The other series is filled with bad cliches and predictable situations.

R423 I don't think the characters on Nine are all unlikable, certainly not to the extent of those on White Orchid. And the series' tones are totally different. White Orchid is a sophisticated, satirical black comedy that cuts and Nine Perfect Strangers appears to be more of a farcical comedy with a seemingly sincere self-betterment undercurrent.

I don't know , r424, but I found the characters played by Melissa McCarthy, Bobby Cannevale and Michael Shannon, all pretty obnoxious if not unlikeable. I also thought the middle aged black woman who pushed her nose into everyone's business pretty obnoxious as well the white bimbo "influencer" and her black bf driving his Lamborghini. Luke Evans was just plain surly and a turn-off. Oh, and don't even get me started on Nicole Kidman as the Russian poseur.

I didn't find any of it farcical.

I liked the music.

And it was actually $924.

The difference is that 9 Perfect Strangers is based on a novel and following standard tropes and cliches. Mike White, at this point, is an incredibly accomplished screenwriter who from the start has been about subverting the obvious, and we are appreciating him in top form and creating under pressure of time, which I think made him lead with his gut and put on the screen something that is what he wants to see.

The money given to Belinda was 2 packages wrapped in bank tape. Official looking. It's either $10k or $20k. Something like that. Take another look at the scene, Tanya didn't give her a stack of fives.

The discussions and articles on this 'meh' series are waaaay over the top. Think there were already three articles and interviews about this series in The NY Times in less than one week.

Aren't there already way too many series and films about the entitled and privileged, what's the point? On cable alone I can't even count the annoying shows about these types, MILLIONS, Succession and now this. Different takes on the same types of people. Big deal.

White Lotus was yet another series about how the rich use and abuse the little people. They don't even seem to care too much for their own. It's survival of the fittest within their own cloistered little groups of privilege.

Their behaviour in this series is hardly any sort of new revelation, the rich characters were acting how they've always acted and will continue to. The over-the-top praise for this series is bizarre.

Tanya gave Belinda $78,622. She was up all might researching startup costs for a spa franchise. Tanya was actually very concerned and wanted to make sure Belinda would be taken care of, so she called her friend who knows someone at the Small Business Administration overnight and arranged for financing. Belinda is all taken care of although she won't know it until she looks inside the envelope and counts her $78,622.

OK? Happy ending. Case closed.

[quote]The money given to Belinda was 2 packages wrapped in bank tape. Official looking.

There were 3 or 4 bundles bound with rubber bands. Can't tell what any of the denominations were.

^Belinda's seed money!

Dr. Google is everyone's friend. Attached is a link showing 10 grand in 2 grand batches of twenty dollar bills.

I'd say it was around 6-8k, if there were 3 or 4 bank bundles of twenties.

so worst case scenario is belinda got a very good start on her dream with tanya's generous gift.

but we know rich wihte fish carry bigger bills.

so belinda, just take your coin and be chill!

Thanks to DL money wrapping experts, we now know Tanya is a generous angel and Belinda is an ungrateful jackass!

It's [bold] FICTIONAL MONEY. STFU!

^^ It's a fictional show, twat. What's your point?

My point, [bold]TWAT CUNT R437[/BOLD] is that no one is ever going to know the amount, and this endless speculation is the very least important moment in the episode. Typical obsessive DL dipshits.

If you're paying $26,000 a night, $6000 tip is not that much.

BTW, I stayed at the Four Seasons Mexico City for $188/night, Christmas Special, in 2005. It was gorgeous, the rooms huge and high-ceilinged, the staff very nice. What Four Seasons charges $26,000 a night????

No matter the amount of money in that envelope, Belinda was out there the next morning with a smile on her face greeting a whole new bunch of entitled white people so there's your takeaway.

R438 We're never going to know about a lot of things regarding the show, asswipe.

What's wrong with some entertaining speculation as to what, money-wise, may have been in the envelope, and, Tanya's motivation behind it? Yes, it had no meaningful effect on the plot, and people have commented endlessly in-depth about it. But, do you really need to be such a douchebag? Lighten up.

Let’s hope the real story about the amount in the envelope is that it was enough for Belinda to put a hit out on Tanya and give her the satisfaction and closure she really needed.

The poster who said that the Belinda and Tanya story arc was supposed to show how people like Tanya operate is right on the mark. Tanya basically groomed Belinda to fall for her con.

Tanya could have used her money a lot more honestly and effectively by paying a companion to accompany her on the trip.

R444 Well maybe Paula would be willing to be her traveling partner now, she’s not going on any other vacations with the Mossbackers that’s for sure.

Tanya is someone who would constantly forget to have the money to pay her housekeeper/gardener/etc.

She would say something like "I forgot to go to the bank" or "I can't find my checkbook--I'll just give it to you next week" and then thank them for being so understanding and so good to her, in a way that makes it seem like they are actually doing her a massive favor by not getting paid and helping her to feel better ("Oh, I feel so terrible, Consuela. I'm always losing my checkbook. Maybe I should go to the doctor. Do you think I should go to the doctor about that.?....Oh thank you for understanding John! I am so lucky to have you! You do such a wonderful job with the hydrangeas,...")

It would never dawn on her that these people are relying on the money they get from her to pay bills and buy groceries for their families.

Always about her.

At the end of the day, Belinda got an envelope with at least thousands of dollars in it. She can use that to start her business. Will it pay for everything? No. But Tanya never promised to be sugar momma.

So take the gift and show us what you can do, B.

I sense a game show in Jennifer Coolidge's future: How Many Dollars in the Envelope?

Dorothy can.

Can you, Belinda?

I can't believe somebody else posted a screenshot of the money, I just went off to do the same thing. Well mine's zoomed in more!

An envelope full of Benjamins!

The guinea pig conveyor belt at R431 is way more interesting than the money envelope talk.

What is the source of Tanya's supposed wealth? It has to be inherited, since she's too dysfunctional to hold down a job, much less a profession?

I think Tanya is a “poor little rich girl” all grown up. Maybe a Gloria Vanderbilt type childhood?

Why is everyone fawning over this shitty show? They killed yet another gay character and you lap it up like it's the greatest thing ever. For fucks sake, no wonder the breeders keep hiring straight actors for gay roles. You don't give a shit. Clearly, you love gay men getting killed on tv shows.

[Quote]The difference is that 9 Perfect Strangers is based on a novel and following standard tropes and cliches.

How is bury your gays not an overused trope?

There is more gay and LGBT representation in entertainment media than ever. More gay and LGTB survive their storylines than ever. But sure, cry foul about the ones who die, because that trope is so unrealistic, because gays live forever!

R457 You mean more lesbians and trannies. Very few gay MALE characters who get to kiss and have sex. Most gay characters are celibate and/or barely there.

r458, sure Jan.

Remember lads, on Datalounge, it's always 1987!!

Ronnie is still in the White House

Madonna is in her glory

And DLers are all in the prime of youth

[quote]Tanya basically groomed Belinda to fall for her con.

I think Tanya was as sincere in her wish to help Belinda as she is with anything else in her life..."Squirrel!"

What was I saying?

Tanya is definitely “California money.” She’s too loopy to have grown up anywhere else.

(I should say I’ve lived most of my adult life in California.)

#justice4Belinda!

Tanya grew up with money if her mother lived in Carmel.

R464 Right. "My mom's house in Carmel" was her line, I think. Mom retiring in Carmel would be a logical scenario - lots of retirees. Especially in Carmel valley. But being in Carmel alone doesn't mean big money. Close to the beach, yes. Pebble Beach, yes. Carmel Highlands, yes. But in town just normal rich.

[quote] Why is everyone fawning over this shitty show?

It's almost entirely the character of Armond.

Many Dataloungers just eat up the idea of a middle-aged gay man going berserk after being oppressed at work by doing tons of drugs and forcing his hot staff members to let him eat them out, and then shitting in the luggage of a particularly nasty customer. That feeds into so many Dataloungers' deepest fantasies.

R441, what part of [bold] pointless bitchery[/bold] don't you understand? My demanding people STFU about the money only led to more one-liners about the money. This is Datalounge, cuntlette, not your own personal brunch gab session. I've been here for decades, instigating ire and amusement since before you could type.

R465, I think she mentioned that her mother's house in Carmel had a view of the ocean, which is why she wanted to scatter her ashes at sea. I'm not familiar with Carmel. Would that suggest that her family had big money?

I see someone is loudly stating her boundaries!

*discreetly indicates r467*

[quote] I think she mentioned that her mother's house in Carmel had a view of the ocean, which is why she wanted to scatter her ashes at sea. I'm not familiar with Carmel. Would that suggest that her family had big money?

Yes.

It’s pretty big money if it’s enough for Tanya to spend her entire life wandering around exotic resorts showering money on spa procedures. That’s “house in Malibu” money.

R471 Yep, I googled Tanya's mom... this is her house.

My husband has a friend like Tanya. Spoiled rich girl who's always drunk and on pills who buys people's love and affection and is always surprised when people catch on to her scheme and leave her. A part of me feels really bad for her, because I doubt she'll ever have a real friendship or relationship, but she's so horribly annoying that I have a hard time caring about her.

I was shocked at how fat Coolidge looked, but she's on the record in interviews saying how much she coped with the Pandemic by eating, alone in her spooky Gothic New Orleans house.

I think that's how a lot of people coped with it, r474.

I would love to get invited to the annual Halloween party at Jennifer’s spooky New Orleans House in the Garden district. I’ll bet it would be a blast!

I see someone is feebly attempting to ingratiate himself by using haggard DataLounge clichés.

Not discreetly pointing and smirking at ninny R469.

[quote] I've been here for decades, instigating ire and amusement since before you could type

Well then, R467, you must be at least a centenarian, to have been at a keyboard that long. That's so cute that you're still here as Senior Hall Monitor for DL.

Oh, r477: you'll have to do much better than that.

***YAWN***

Golly Gee Willikers Fellas--we've got us a real live HISS-DOWN!!!

Or maybe it's a HISS-OFF?

I think this thread is more than done.

Until The White Lotus Season 2.........

R478 / R479: narcoleptic and ageist; because irony.

Am I the only one who doesn't feel that bad for Belinda? Yes she had to give Tanya some extra attention and have dinner with her, but people have had to do a lot worse to try to get money for something. Also we all saw Tanya reneging on it and flaking out, Belinda should have been a bit more savvy.

A lot of people would envy Belinda for her secure job in a safe, clean environment, living in Hawaii. As far as listening to needy female emotional vampires....ask any hairdresser.

[quote[ [R478] / [R479]:

Oh honey, we're not the same person. Don't you get how Ignore-dar works?

It's the boogietime bop of the year.

Full soundtrack.

Also on Spotify and other services

R488 Thank you! I loved the music more than the series.

R485, yes, I do. But you and you sister bitch sadly don't know how basic coding works.

R490 envies Belinda?

I haven’t been to this thread in a few days, and I see we are STILL discussing the envelope of cash???

Will there be another thread to discuss why the rich family only booked one suite?

Since rich people never use cash anymore, we can deduce that Tanya is not rich at all, but instead used her life's savings to go to Hawaii to kill herself with her mother's ashes. Naturally, her fantasy of being Belinda's savior business partner never could have happened but she couldn't admit her poverty. Instead, she gave all her savings to Belinda and went off to live out her final days with a terminally ill man. Finally unloading the ashes was the sign that Tanya's suicide is imminent. She will free her soul from her torturous body on the other Hawaiian island she's going to, and no one she met will ever know that she herself works for rich people at a spa in Sacramento.

Anyone know if the lyrics to the songs that Belinda sang were actual words in another language, or just improvised gibberish?

R494 I asked the same question up thread and ... R326 R370

[quote] Will there be another thread to discuss why the rich family only booked one suite?

Probably, since no one's yet provided a satisfactory answer yet.

As someone above said, the closed captioning said that Belinda was singing in Sanskrit. I'm sure it's a Buddhist or Hindu meditation and not gibberish, something like the song linked here.

What I got from the scene was that Belinda is a Black American woman and yet she can sing meditations in Sanskrit, meaning that she has studied the art/craft/profession of what she does and takes it very seriously (which foreshadows the excitement about potentially opening her own healing center). She's not just some hourly employee in a retail service establishment, but a learned professional. And she's contrasted by Tanya, who mimicks what Belinda is singing with a bunch of gibberish, probably oblivious that there is any meaning or intention behind what Belinda is doing. Belinda takes it seriously and tells Tanya to just listen to the healing sounds, and Tanya just thinks it's cool.

Does every single thing need to be explained? All writers learn that good dramas begin in the middle of the action without a lot of expositional backstory and that leaving out some information builds dramatic tension and engages the reader's mind. Can we just accept that we don't know how much money Tanya gave Belinda, we don't know why control freak Nicole forced her family into that awkward suite, we don't know whether Olivia is crushing on Paula or not, we don't know if Shane is going to shank Rachel in the middle of the night or vice versa in Fiji, and it doesn't matter, because we were given a limited weeklong insight into these horrible people's worlds and should wish them bon voyage until we meet again.

^^ Sorry, Mr. White, but so many of us here have a lot free time on our hands and we can't help but continue to indulge in the fantasy. Who knows, maybe we'll inspire some plot twists in the second season for you.

[quote]No matter the amount of money in that envelope, Belinda was out there the next morning with a smile on her face greeting a whole new bunch of entitled white people so there's your takeaway.

Does it really matter how much Tanya gave Belinda? Even if Tanya gave Belinda close to $100,000, who would immediately quit their job to start their own business? Research etc has to be done. Setting up a business isn't easy, most people wouldn't do it.

Most of my friends and family members who own businesses. would never have thought it was a good idea to immediately leave their jobs with good benefits, then dive right into a business they weren't completely sure would succeed. Just because a business might be something you think you might enjoy doing, that guarantees nothing. I know three douchebag lawyer brothers, they own about ten diners. They do well as lawyers, yet kept their diners going.

Most people in the US have health insurance, decent pension plans and other perks tied to their jobs. No one and I repeat, no one, from a working class or lower middle class background would ever immediately leave a decent job before they knew their own business was up, running and was profitable.

A friend was an art director for many years, his current business, in a completely different field, now makes about 5-6 million a year. You bet your ass he continued art directing while setting up his new business. His mom was a waitress and his father in construction, they worked hard putting him and his siblings through college, he knew how difficult it was to succeed at things you enjoy, to try to turn your interests into a career. Because of that, he stayed at his art director job until his business took off.

Not everyone is lucky enough to have a trust fund and is able to dabble until they find the right career.

I would assume Belinda was savvy enough to stay put while researching the spa field. I don't take Belinda greeting the new entitled guests as a sign she's failed or resigned herself to staying at the resort forever.

If you look closely inside the envelope, you can see that in addition to the $100,000 in cash, Tanya gave Belinda a winning scratch-off lottery ticket and the combination to her bank vault, which contains $1,273,433.89 in Amazon stocks, jewelry and US savings bonds.

Can we all agree that it was at least enough money for Belinda to buy a new shee-ayze lounge?

I'm pretty sure there were giant rubies stuffed at the bottom of the envelope. Belinda is fine.

Mike White wrote and created a whole satirical series on modern power dynamics and privilege meant to provoke thought and reflection. I wonder what he would think if he came across these threads and just saw hundreds upon hundreds of replies fighting about Nicole's 1-bedroom suite faux pas and how much cash was in Belinda's envelope.

R503 Well, I hope they were ethically sourced rubies, or Belinda might have a problem with them.

r504, I think that is a perfect example of how a discussion about privilege makes people uncomfortable, and they switch the discussion to something else.

[quote] Most people in the US have health insurance, decent pension plans and other perks tied to their jobs.

I would love to see the statistics behind that statement. Pension plans?! Are you living in the 1950s?

If you think about it, it was clear from day one who's in the casket. The show is about entitlement and privilege, and here we have Armond with a very thick Australian accent serving the rich and falling apart right in front of our eyes, no longer able to take their shit (even when he's at fault initially).

[quote] Are you living in the 1950s?

On Datalounge????

Surely you jest!

R500 : Was that a hash-infused joint that you smoked tonight? Or Kief? 😎🤣

Based on the success of the show, HBO just announced another spinoff called The White Envelope: Tanya's Hidden Treasures.

This is getting crazier than all the Game of Thrones spinoffs!

R419 Closeted bi? What are you talking about?

[quote]I hope they were ethically sourced rubies, or Belinda might have a problem with them.

You all, Olivia and Paula have joined the discussion!

r511, now I want a Deal Or No Deal spoof with Belinda / Natasha Rothwell hosting and models holding envelopes with all kinds of treasures. Like a pack of newspaper clippings or lottery tickets, jewels, gold bar, voucher for an all-inclusive paid trip to Hawaii and a stay at a fancy resort, etc.

[quote] Mike White wrote and created a whole satirical series on modern power dynamics and privilege meant to provoke thought and reflection. I wonder what he would think if he came across these threads and just saw hundreds upon hundreds of replies fighting about Nicole's 1-bedroom suite faux pas and how much cash was in Belinda's envelope.

My likely guess would be he would think, "We should not have left in so many plot holes, since they are clearly distracting my viewers from the bigger themes of the mini-series I wanted to convey."

This is not the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, and it is not our burden to gasp and marvel at its profundity and brilliance. Mike White is not Michelangelo. This was an intelligently done HBO mini-series with some serious flaws in it. If viewers are focusing on the flaws, the fault is not with the viewers; it is with the creators.

Yes, these obsessions from DL people are evidence the show has major flaws. The White Lotus would have been much better if, for example, Tanya had said, "Belinda, this envelope contains $23,000 in cash for you to serve as seed money, just so that you are clear on my intentions," and Belinda had replied, "Tanya, I will accept the cash money; however, as a human being, I am deeply hurt by the rejection and I do not feel seen in this moment," and Tanya had replied, "I can see that you do not feel seen, and I will now exit to save you the embarrassment of being seen by someone who does not seen you."

HBO was foolish not to focus test this show as a network would have done. Why, if they had, the dialogue would have eliminated all subtext and it could have been just as good as a Ryan Murphy show!

Excellent, R516.

You need to disinvest emotionally somewhat from this show, r516.

Your obsession with it is not healthy.

I’m kind of bummed that I don’t have a new episode to look forward to tonight.

R515 > R516

Also, the envelope is essential to the resolution of the tension at the show's core.

If Tanya gave Belinda an envelope full of monopoly money with $1 bills on either side to fool her, then same on Tanya.

However, if, as some of us have deduced, Tanya gifted tens of thousands of dollars to Belinda, then Belinda has her seed money for her dream. And Tanya made it happen.

Personally, I'm waiting for the scene that wound up on the proverbial cutting room floor where Nicole is on a call with China and her assistant breaks in tell her that the two bedroom suite is $26,000 per night, not for the week, and she hisses at her "well then just book the one-bedroom then. They'll deal.!"

[quote] I’m kind of bummed that I don’t have a new episode to look forward to tonight.

Why not break into your neighbor's place, find their suitcase, squat down and make your own episode?

BRAVO, r516!

I really pity the poor lazy schlubs on this thread who cannot or will not think for themselves and have no imagination and need everything spelled out and neatly answered for them. Part of the brilliance of this series has been how it invites the viewer to come to their own conclusions from what they bring to the characters and situations based on their own experiences and observations.

[quote]I would love to see the statistics behind that statement. Pension plans?! Are you living in the 1950s?

No, not in the 1950s, sorry if your job doesn't provide much. Find a new one or get a state or city job. I laugh at DL posters who are always demanding "statistics". How about I know lots of people personally who receive pensions or will receive them? You know, real life 'statistics'.

I know a lot of people in city and state jobs, from teachers, people in division management jobs, people who design graphics for NYC agencies to MTA workers, they all have pensions. One, who is still teaching, belongs to such a powerful union, they don't pay anything into their health insurance plan. That person lives upstate NY. One of my neighbors receives her late husband's $70,000 a year pension, she's in her early 70s.

I really hope he gets playful with the anthology and either switches up the color or the flower and it gives subtle clues to what the season is about. Like White Oleander could be about a poisoned murder or Blue Lotus about depressive travelers.

Is the “Lukas Gage is straight” troll in this thread? I haven’t read any of this one yet.

[quote]I really pity the poor lazy schlubs on this thread who cannot or will not think for themselves and have no imagination and need everything spelled out and neatly answered for them.

There's something about HBO shows, in particular, that seem to draw two tracks of viewers: those who watch for the narrative trappings of the genre and those who watch for something messier/deeper. There were a lot of SOPRANOS fans who really just wanted mob wars and flat out didn't care for the psychology stuff. No surprise, they were (and still are) put off by the finale.

R527 True! I didn't even register some of the mafia stuff in The Sopranos because I was young and unfamiliar with the mob movies the series was always referencing. My roommate was like, "How can you not know this? This is the whole point. It's in everything from The Godfather to Goodfellas." Meanwhile, I was most invested in the domestic dramas and psychological developments and the performances. The things I remember with visceral lasting impressions were the killing of Adriana and everything leading up to it, the rape of Dr. Melfi and how it affected her, Edie Falco's performance in a scene in which she and Tony fight, and comedic elements like janice sucking marrow out of a bone and stealing a Russian hooker's fake leg, the episode in the woods, Carmela buying Meadow's way into Columbia and them being extorted by the university's fundraiser and Meadow's 10-minute-long parallel parking ordeal in the final episode that made me a nervous wreck.

You're welcome.

R524 This is the current American disease... "something is true because I believe it." And the "source" of my belief is... "I know a lot of people..." ("no, it's true, if you get COVID vaccinated your veins glow in the dark... a friend of my cousin showed him!")

"Pensions" were a feature of good jobs through the middle of the last century. But by 1980 fewer than 38% of workers had jobs that promised pensions. And given the Reaganomics restructuring of the American economy (get rid of unions and collective bargaining, shift fiscal policy to provide complete deregulation to the markets, erode progressive tax schedules) it got worst since then. By 2021 fewer than 10% of workers have pension plans as a part of the terms of employment. (This is defined benefit plans which is not 401k plans... which depend on the ups and downs of the marker).

There are surveys that 30% of Americans believe that the world is flat, or that the sun revolves around the earth. "Well, somebody told me..." "I heard people say..."

r530, people believe what they want to believe. It's downright impossible to convince someone from something that goes against an established belief. No matter how much proof or evidence you present. It's best to just walk away at the first sign you talk to a flat earther or Deplorable.

R531 Yep, wise words. I am by policy and values pretty far to the left, but I'd add that this growing debilitation of critical thinking also happens on the left. Not to the same degree, perhaps, but plenty of people on the left "believe what they want to believe."

r532, to me that's not a bad thing on the Liberal side given that Russian troll farms are fully intent to spread doubt, confusion and fear amongst Liberals with deliberate misinformation by pretending to be die-hard Liberals.

R526 Who the fuck is Lukas Gage?

R526, no. We're over him and he wasn't that hot to begin with.

R534 has never actually watched White Lotus. Cool.

I was worried from this thread that NINE PERFECT STRANGERS wasnt worth watching. It is. I gather it is much more accessible than White Lotus and people who couldn't connect to WL but enjoy NPS--it tells you a lot about their level of sophistication. That's not a dig it just is what it is. Most of us have areas of pop culture where we lack sophistication. I love The White Lotus but wouldn't go to an opera if you gave me free tickets.

Great. Watched 4 the 2 this morning.

I also avoided these threads.

It’s worth paying my monthly subscription just to be able to read the threads on DL while I watch TV series or live events (like award shows). So much wit and wisdom mixed with inanity and interesting tangents!

[quote][R524]This is the current American disease... "something is true because I believe it." And the "source" of my belief is... "I know a lot of people..." ("no, it's true, if you get COVID vaccinated your veins glow in the dark... a friend of my cousin showed him!”)

Wow, who is the argumentative moron here? Certainly not me. I post FACTUAL information that a lot of the people I know have decent pension plans. However, to YOU, that translates to: “Something is true because I believe it.” WTF? I believe it because I know it's a bloody fact. A large portion of my friends and family members have pensions, FACT.

I don’t need to read a linked 'article', I realize many people don’t have pension plans and that’s likely their fault. Many stayed at jobs because they liked the work, it was something they enjoyed doing. They were happy with their salaries, 401K (or whatever savings plan their company provided), their paid vacations and paid Holidays, the option of keeping the health plans after retirement in lieu of a pension (then allowing the spouse or partner to keep the same health insurance after the late worker died), many people are simply happy to have a steady job with some benefits. Their are many variables, yet you choose to ignore them.

Others are clueless, they don't understand Social Security won't be enough for their old age, while others don't realize their health insurance plans, even if they are allowed to keep them after retirement, won't cover long term nursing home care. Lots of people are simply poor planners. While, others got their jobs when they were young, stayed 'forever' and clearly didn’t care about the future, that also applies to many older people who don’t have pensions.

I work in a creative field, many people in these fields freelance, they don’t have pensions, let alone health insurance, they must and do pay for their health insurance, they have their own pension plans. Freelancers must be be savvy and save for their future. Freelancers usually make much more than staff people, that's usually the case because they have zero perks, just their paychecks, compared to staff workers.

Most of the freelance creatives I know make great money, that have reliable steady accounts, they are always working, I know a freelance art director, they also have graphic design and photography accounts, this person makes about $450,000 year. If anyone making that sort of money is unable to save for the future, that’s their problem. They are hopeless.

Posting an article which doesn’t touch upon the fact that many states still have extremely powerful city and state union jobs, which provide fantastic pensions, only helps your narrative. Next time, post both sides of the story.

Honestly, go fuck yourself.

WTF are you on about?

Can someone explain why armond took those poor girls’ drugs? What caused him to break sobriety and spiral?

Opportunity + temptation.

The Armond and Shane feud would've made a lot more sense if Shane had been a dick to Armond right from the start (like, Shane calling Armond a fag under his breath, you know *caugh* fag *caugh*) when they met at the guests' arrival.

Armond's unraveling that was supposedly caused by the trainee giving birth in his office made no sense either. The response to "am I that self involved to not notice that?" is to push back against Shane (when the one in the wrong was Armond after all)? Really weird.

Still an amazing show and the DL threads give credit to how much material there is for viewers to argue about.

R544 If Shane had called Armond a fag, or had he said or done anything equally terrible, Shane would have been an evil villain. That's not the character.

Mike White has been clear that he wrote Shane to be a rich guy who is a jerk, but not a villain.

He loves his wife in his view—he objectifies her, which upsets her—and he isn't technically wrong about anything he says. His mother did pay for the better room. Even the detail that his mom paid instead of him paying makes him a little more sympathetic, because he is offended his mom was cheated.

He's annoyed at Rachel for considering interrupting their once-in-a-lifetime a writing job for a few hundred dollars, which is totally understandable. (Interestingly, this is a reversal of what we'd most likely see in other stories or on something like the Real Housewives, in which the men are always shown working and women get upset about them not participating in 'quality time.')

All Shane wants is to have his perfect memory-making honeymoon and spend all his time with his wife, and she not only takes it for granted but wants to reject his company in favor of a poorly paying gig.

He sees her as ungrateful of all the things she has—beauty, better opportunities in life now, she's in paradise now—and tries to coerce her to see the bright side and she gets even more offended when he does that.

But from his vantage point, all he does throughout the week is to try to engage his new wife and flatter her. His harassment of Armond, he says, is because he wants his wife to have the best, and given how miserable she is and how much he does to try to engage her, there's no reason not to believe that he really believes his obsessiveness about the room is because he doesn't want Rachel to miss out, and then it snowballs out of control because of how Armond tries to pacify him.

The one exception to the POV that Shane is doing all good things for Rachel from his own perspective is the pool flirting with Olivia and Paula, which he did in front of Rachel. That does present him as more of a villain from his own perspective.

r545, I very much agree with you. The point of the show wasn't about making sense, but to keep the character ambiguous enough for people to occasionally see where they are coming from.

But sometimes some viewers try to make sense of it by challenging the ambiguity status of the characters.

Girls, girls. You're both obsessed shut-ins giving way too much emotional weight to TV shows!

R547 And?

This may have already been discussed (I haven't read all of the posts), but Shane's obsession with the room wasn't really about getting something better for Rachel. It was about feeling taken advantage of and cheated out of something that he was entitled to because he was accustomed to getting what he wanted. The Pineapple Suite may have been more expensive, but it wasn't as nice as the other one. They comment on the lesser view of the ocean, the artificial grass, and the tacky decor. But none of that mattered to Shane. He only cared that he got the room he was entitled to.

White's point, as noted, was that Shane was actually in the right, he just became obsessed when he didn't get his way.

And to R546's point about Rachel, the twist was that while she was obsessed with work, she wasn't very good at what she did.

And the ass licker was fucking with him the whole time.

Shane claimed to have wanted a "perfect" honeymoon with his wife, yet spent all of his time trying to get Armond fired. He was obsessed with showing Armond who was "boss."

Yes, almost 2400 comments across 4 main threads and not including other side threads about this show.

R553 And approximately 1,000 of those are pure speculation about how many dollars are in an envelope, and another 600 are about the real cost of a real Four Seasons hotel that has nothing at all to do with the show.

[quote]I realize many people don’t have pension plans and that’s likely their fault.

R540 Prostesteth too muchy, and proves the point. "Likely"

I get that you will not be wrong, no matter what. May you enjoy all the things this one and precious life brings you.

R536 Because I don't know the name of some extra that had one line? Okay then.

The gay addict may have actually died, but sadder is the bug-eyed trophy wife, who died inside.

[quote] [R536] Because I don't know the name of some extra that had one line? Okay then.

Incredibly retarded ^^

I think much is made of Shane be a rich American jerk, fixated on being taken advantage of for the trifling matter of not being given the room that was booked. Yet for the most part he retained his composure and was actually polite when dealing with Armond. I can think of guests from several other nationalities who would throw explosive shit-fits if the same were to happen to them. And we would consider that normal or expected.

R558 Don't be so harsh on yourself. You might be a bit slower than the rest of us, but retarded? I'm sure you're not.

R559 which ones? Pakistanis?

I saw a German man have a loud temper tantrum in a McDonald's in Cambridge, England. They put ice in his drink and he said they were cheating him.

The self-serve drink station is such a marvelous innovation.

I should be more sympathetic, but I am still annoyed at how pathetic Rachel turned out to be.

Did we ever find out Dad Mossbacher’s job?

Is it me, or did this article just stop dead without any real concluding statement? I feel like I see this all the time in journalism now.

AWG he better work it while he can.

This is the article's writer, R565. She looks 20 and posted a photo with a friend who was turning 22. Don't expect Pulitzer-winning investigative journalism from children who cover the royals for Town & Country magazine. I think Rachel Patton is probably a few notches above that journalistically.

R567 My god, what a basic bitch, who do her parents know who got her that job, and what job did they have to give to the daughter of that person in exchange.

R568 She's a kid. I wouldn't call her a 'basic bitch.'

But of course her family got her the job. The magazine is called Town & Country. It may as well be called Pictures and Words By Nepotism Monthly.

They're probably not recruiting from the Columbia School of Journalism.

Harvard, history and literature, graduated in 2019.

I'm thinking something like Meghan McCain's hard-earned BA in art history from Columbia. Brainiacs, all those rich kids. See also: Kushner, J. and Kushner, J.

Josh Kushner's noble Democrat wife (who is making millions off condemnable slums owned by her dear hubby and Jared, but hey!) is a scholar, too!

You know what?

This thread has made a big deal of what a dumb loser Rachel Patton is because she writes repurposed clickbait and went to SUNY, but consider the real-life people working in/from NYC who have prestigious credentials: Donalds Senior and Junior, Ivanka, Eric and Tiffany, Jared and Josh Kushner, Karlie Kloss Kushner, Meghan McCain. Erm. Megyn Kelly. No, wait, she fled because she said the liberals were indoctrinating her children. (See three sentences prior for all those people turned liberal by NYC educational institutions.)

Anyone else find Jake Lacy's as a bit underwhelming? Nice chest, a face good for spunking on, but the butt?

[quote] *caugh* fag *caugh*

*caugh* Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic] *cough*

Annie is a Harvard grad R568 who also interned for Rep. Karen Bass

I suspect at age 24 her resume is far more impressive than yours

R574 Coincidently, I too graduated with a BA in Art History, and by the age of 24 I had worked in three world class museums and at IBM in their corporate art collection and all while having graduated from a top state university and having absolutely no family connections whatsoever. A much more illustrious art history work history then she has at present. And trust me, at most venues I worked with plenty of girls just like her, they would use their salary for cab fare and to go out for lunch and had everything else was paid for by mommy and daddy, while myself and others from humble backgrounds struggled on $19,000.00 a year living in NYC in the ‘90s. In her circle, actually, the usual job is either at a top Chelsea Art Gallery or Sotheby’s or Christie’s where she can meet an equally wealthy man to marry, so as far as I’m concerned she’s failing miserably.

God, did this thread ever devolve.

r575, you sound ridiculously full of yourself (not to mention sexist).

Let’s not fool ourselves, the author and Olivia Mossbacher are cut from the very same cloth, and the thing is girls like that have existed from the 1980s onward. Rachel never would have gotten even the shit job Annie has at Town and Country Magazine.

The throw-away bit with MILF-liking (or gigolo) played by Austin Stowell:

Kekoa Kekumano had the best ass, but it's hidden by the low lighting.

"Bitter" was the word that came through most to me, R576. Not so much full of himself, but bitter and seething at these women still, 30 years after the fact. I

Austin Stowell looked amazing in that scene, R578

He's a handsome guy for sure, but it's notable how much of a difference the long hair and beard made.

Some dude has a 90-second shirtless cameo that amounted to nothing at all in a miniseries, and people talk about him ad nauseam.

And then people ask what the point of his role was.

Clearly Mike White is enough of an entertainment pro to know that showing skin for any reason or no reason will get people buzzing.

There will be a spinoff inspired by Datalounge.

"White Envelope" coming fall 2022

I am fascinated by Mike White's nerdy performance in Enlightened. You can really see that he is the master of awkward internalized characters.

The way this thread has devolved, I bet he's studying some of you for his next project...

Just 16 more responses and then this thread can DIE.

A part five thread for when the time comes.

Re: Austin Stowell-- wondering if DLers more into pop culture/who-is-a-beard read anything into this?

R575, I hope those were all internships, otherwise your resume looks a bit…busy.

I wonder how successful Belinda was with her seed money from Tanya.