Falcon Crest- Why wasn't it as big a ratings hit as the other big glitzy US soaps like Dallas and Dynasty?

It was boring and seemed to be for older people. Plus Jane Wyman had resting bitch face.

I loved Falcon Crest and Knots Landing because they both were not copies of Dallas or Dynasty. They had their own style and had strong casts on each show.

Wyman wasn't exactly glamourous.

Or glamorous even.

In the U.S. it also was on later than Dallas, so there was a smaller potential audience.

r3 Neither was Barbara Bel Geddes!

r1 You don't think Joan Collins had resting bitch face?

What was it about the show that made it seem like it was for older people?

r5 That I didn't know. Do you think it's network needed to nurture it more in terms of chosen schedule broadcast time?

r7 When I was in high school I used to babysit my neighbor's kids on Friday nights. They would watch Dukes of Hazzard and then go to bed. Then I would watch Dallas but when Falcon Crest came on it didn't catch my interest. I did love Flamingo Way, Dallas, Dynasty, and Knot's Landing though.

Falcon Crest was a top 10 show for seasons 2 through 4.

R7, it was a combination of the fact that it aired at 10pm (compared to 9pm for both Dallas and Dynasty) and that they had a series of old movie stars guesting on the show throughout its run: Lana Turner, Cliff Robertson, Kim Novak, Gina Lollobrigida, Leslie Carbon, etc.

I think Dallas and Dynasty each had star making performances from Hagman and Collins which were much talked about.

Caron, not Carbon. Fucking autocorrect!

[quote] Do you think it's network needed to nurture it more in terms of chosen schedule broadcast time?

I don't think so. Consistent with what R1 wrote, it was positioned as a more "adult" and complex nighttime soap than Dallas which was supposed to be more obviously fun, broad and appealing to the masses. For example, Wyman was the star and focus of the show in contrast to the younger Hagman and Collins on their respective shows. Barbara Bel Geddes (Hagman's mother on Dallas) would never have been considered the star of Dallas, and she was younger than Wyman.

For all those limitations, as R10 indicated, Falcon Crest did quite well for itself. It actually beat Dallas one season to become the top-rated show on American television.

I can remember a high school band concert was scheduled for the night of the Who shot JR finale.

I was mad.

Apparently a lot of people were because the director ended the show at like 8:30 saying I know you all want to get home to see who shot JR.

[quote] Who shot JR

So who was it?

[Quote] Falcon Crest did quite well for itself. It actually beat Dallas one season to become the top-rated show on American television.

I'm afraid you're thinking of Dynasty, which was #1 for the 1984-85 season, with Dallas at #2; in fact, this was the only season that all four big prime time soaps were in the top ten, with Knots Landing at #9 and FC at #10.

FC's highest ranking was #7 for the 1983-84 season.

Bing Crosby's daughter Mary r15. (played his wife's sister.)

R16, you're correct. I was thinking of Dynasty.

r9 Flamingo Way is a show I am struggling to place? I don't think they showed it here in the UK? Was it based on a wealthy family like the others?

Rappin' Ronnie Reagan didn't want his ex-wife of a cunt to have a hit TV show, so he sent Nancy out to Hollywood to show those TV executives the rough stuff.

r10 Thanks for your reply. That's a stellar cast you've listed there and rather campy! Did the shows campness make it more popular with older gay men or gay men in general rather than a general younger audience?

[quote] he sent Nancy out to Hollywood to show those TV executives the rough stuff.

Does "rough stuff" equal "blow job"?

Flamingo Road, not Way. 1980-82 NBC soap, based on the 1949 movie starring Joan Crawford, in turn an adaptation of a novel by Robert Wilder.

r19 I looked it up on Wikipedia. Yes it does sound like it was about a rich family. Only ran a year and a half in the US.

oh and it was called Flamingo Road.

It's a pity Joan Crawford died in the 1970s. I think she would have been better value on a 1980s soap opera than Barbara Stanwyck.

r13 Thanks. Which season or year did Falcon Crest beat Dallas in the ratings please if you can remember?

[quote] Did the shows campness make it more popular with older gay men or gay men in general rather than a general younger audience?

I was a wee gayling at the time, and it certainly made it more popular with me. I already knew some of those older stars by that age. I was also a fan of Dynasty but not really a Dallas fan.

r20 You are so naughty!!!😁😉

R26, see r16.

[quote] It slightly baffles me as I see it as equal whilst different.

Defarto has trotted out one of his sockpuppet accounts. This is a true troll thread. Rapid fire, scripted responses for Falcon Crest.

SurvivingAngel is Defarto.

Muriel, he's in here.

r23 r24 Cheers Do you know if Falcon Crest got better ratings than Knots Landing please?

R22 That's how Nancy (real name Anne Robbins) got her start in Hollywood. She was a notorious tramp. I'm not saying she fucked her way to success, but when she saw the couch in the Oval Office, she did bend over it.

Flamingo ROAD, ya fat whores!

r27 Yes Not withstanding Sue Ellen Dallas was the least camp of the three. It had a more male feel to it.

r33 Watch who you are calling fat!!

Falcon Crest ratings throughout its run, compared to other prime time soaps.

1981 - '82:

DALLAS 1st

DYNASTY 19th

FALCON CREST 13th

FLAMINGO ROAD 68th

KNOTS LANDING 43rd

1982 - '83:

DALLAS 2nd

DYNASTY 5th

FALCON CREST 8th

KNOTS LANDING 20th

1983 - '84:

DALLAS 1st

DYNASTY 3rd

FALCON CREST 7th

KNOTS LANDING 11th

1984 - '85:

DALLAS 2nd

DYNASTY 1st

FALCON CREST 10th

KNOTS LANDING 9th

1985 - '86:

DALLAS 6th

DYNASTY 7th

FALCON CREST 24th

KNOTS LANDING 17th

THE COLBYS 35th

1986 - '87:

DALLAS 11th

DYNASTY 24th

FALCON CREST 23rd

KNOTS LANDING 26th

THE COLBYS 64th

1987 - '88:

DALLAS 21st

DYNASTY 41st

FALCON CREST 42nd

KNOTS LANDING 31st

1988 - '89:

DALLAS 30th

DYNASTY 69th

FALCON CREST 52nd

KNOTS LANDING 28th

1989 - '90:

DALLAS 43rd

FALCON CREST 81st

KNOTS LANDING 34th

Falcon Crest seems to be least remembered of the "big 4" primetime soaps.

It did well in the ratings for most of its run, but didn't have the huge buzz Dallas and Dynasty had or critical acclaim and arguably the most loyal fanbase like Knots Landing had.

This was the best

r14 I had a middle school skating party the night Happy Days aired the episode where Fonzi jumps the shark on waterskis. Back before we had VCRs it was quite a dilemma but my friends and I went to the skating party because that was a big social event back then.

Nobody could turn her head like Maggie

Not even Barrie Youngfellow?

R38, my favorite is the season 4 arrangement:

Ice skating was an event at your school, R39?

r36 MANY MANY thanks for posting those ratings. Quite a drop in the ranking for Falcon Crest from 1985 onwards.

[quote]Nobody could turn her head like Maggie

EXCUSE ME?

r43 it was held at the local roller skating (not ice) rink. It was for the whole middle school and it was the chance to socialize outside of school with your classmates. And get to see your crushes who you wouldn't normally see outside of school hours. You skated to radio hits. They had a snack bar where you could get pizza, a root beer float, popcorn, etc.

Fun times.

I loved Falcon Crest because I loved Ana Alicia. A soap needs a good heroine and/or a good visen. And Ana Alicia was perfect as Melissa because she was both -- fun, sexy, a bit of a bad girl but she also had a heart. That makes for an interesting character.

Plus, she got to work with Lorenzo Lamas at his hottest.

Lorenzo Lamas was sex on a stick back then.

Thank you, R46.

Lorenzo Lamas posed for Playgirl but his father objected and bought back the pictures. Annoying.

r48 He was beyond yummy 😘🤩🤩 Very edible.

Didn't Lorenzo bare his balls in GREASE?

[quote] his father objected and bought back the pictures

Fernando didn't think he looked fabulous.

No r52 it was a PG teen film. No nudity.

I never really got into any of them but Knots Landing. I watched a little of Dallas but wasn't as loyal of a watcher as I was Knots Landing. Gary was sex-ay.

It's been so long since I have seen Knots in its original run. I became a fan around the time Nicolette Sheridan came on. I was about 10 or 11.

I do remember there were two men in the office who would observe the main characters and make comments. I remember they were really funny. That's why Knots stood out - because they had little quirks like that. The writing was so good.

I loved the story of Jill trying to kill Valene. Jill was crazy as hell but you had to almost admire her for carrying out her elaborate plan - and she almost succeeded.

Dynasty was my favorite.

[quote] Dynasty was my favorite.

Grape is my favorite.

[quote] Dynasty was my favorite.

Grape is my favorite.

From what I could gather on Jump the Shark two decades ago, it basically turned into a sort of prototype of The Sopranos with all of these half-baked mafia stories.

The first blow FC took was Miami Vice. Per above, it was the #10 show for the 1984-85 season, but dropped to #24 for the 85-86 season; yes, all prime time soaps were down that season, but FC directly face Miami Vice, which was the #9 show for that season and was a cultural phenomenon.

Next, TPTB behind the scenes changed and with it they changed the direction of the series -- as mentioned at r60, mob storylines become central, diluting the focus from the original core conflict between Angela - Chase - Richard.

Finally, original cast members departed, particularly decimating the Gioberti clan -- first Cole jumped on a boat and set sail, taking son Joseph with him (ending the popular Cole - Melissa - Lance triangle), then Chase was killed off, then Vicki left town (again), and finally Maggie died in a particularly cruel fashion. The departure of Melissa was another blow. And none of the replacement characters were appealing.

To me the show lost a lot of appeal the season Chase was written out. A show, certainly soaps, need an anchor with a heart which was the Gioberti couple. Dynasty made Krystle/Blake the anchor, KL had Karen and Mack, Dallas had Miss Ellie and her husbands. Maggie and Chase grounded the show, prevented it from getting too campy. Once that couple was broken up, they didn't look for a replacement of that anchor. Maggie couldn't do it by herself because they hooked her up with Richard. So she wasn't an anchor anymore.

The first five years were soap gold though. And in my opinion Angela was a better foil than Alexis, maybe even better than J. R. Her motivation for being a villain was very well explained throughout the show.

[quote] It's a pity Joan Crawford died in the 1970s. I think she would have been better value on a 1980s soap opera than Barbara Stanwyck.

Interesting idea.

She would have still been a bit too old even if she'd lived, but yes, that scale of production and that kind of drama might have been a perfect fit for her, especially if she could do essentially a glorified walk on every week.

I loved the theme. I wanted it to play when I walked downstairs in the morning for breakfast.

[quote] Nobody could turn her head like Maggie

Gurl, please.

Crawford could have slapped someone new every week.

[quote] And in my opinion Angela was a better foil than Alexis, maybe even better than J. R. Her motivation for being a villain was very well explained throughout the show.

Agreed. I could imagine myself getting around Alexis and J.R., but Angela would genuinely intimidate me.

I loved Falcon Crest and it was the only television that I would watch with my father. He loved the old stars.

We both liked it when Gina L. Did the tarantella to ward off the poison of the her American cousins.

I got the DVD set of the first season when it was dirt cheap a few years ago, but only watched the first episode or two because I couldn't get into it. Should I try again? When does Falcon Crest hit its stride?

r69, the first four seasons are available to rent on Amazon Prime and Apple+. I'd start with season 2, as this is when it truly embraces the soap format, introduces David Selby as Richard Channing, and kicks off the Carlo Agretti murder mystery, which impacted storylines for years to come.

Thanks, R70.

And critics say that American television started it's decline with 'reality TV'. I would beg to differ. I think it started with nighttime soaps..

r72, if it weren't for nighttime soaps, you wouldn't have continuing dramas like The Sopranos, Mad Men, or Breaking Bad.

r67 Angela Channing was definitely more nuanced than Alexis Colby.Her motivations and emotional drives better illustrated.

r73 Good point

That is just the same thing only pandering to the pretentiousness of heterosexual men.

r76 Wrong thread or are you saying Falcon Crest is the more male or heterosexual of the glitzy soaps?

Jane Wyman was pretty manly.

I agree about Angela -- Alexis and JR were tough but they were not intimidating. Angela was intimidating, smart, cunning and she could see right through you. Even when I was 10 years old watching the show back in the '80s, I knew she was not someone to mess with.

And I agree about Maggie's death. I had stopped watching by this point but I happened to turn on the channel when an episode of Falcon Crest was wrapping up, and poor Maggie went for a fateful swim. That image still haunts.

R77, I think he's referring to my comment at r73: soap opera is seen as a "feminine" genre and thus receives less respect than male oriented soaps - and that is what they are - like The Sopranos. They hide their soapiness behind masculine drag and "serious" issues.

r78 Am I right in rembering that there was a rumour that Jane Wyman was a bit hostile to Lana Turner on the set of Falcon Crest because Turner had upset Janes close friend Barbara Stanwyck years before?

Arr right ok thanks r80 that makes sense and explains it. I was slightly puzzled!

Some interesting details about FC in the linked thread, including the revolving door of showrunners, interference by Lorimar and CBS, and Wyman's shabby treatment of Lana Turner and Mel Ferrer.

1960s Linda Evans looks almost unrecognizable form her 1980s counterpart.

^Don't know why there's a picture of The Big Valley.

I always enjoyed when that old bitch Angela's schemes failed and she got her comeuppance from Richard, Chase, Melissa, etc. Also both her crazy daughters Emma and Julia basically had her number. Emma would call her out but Julia kept her mouth shut.

r83 Many thanks!👍

Who would we say was the biggest guest star casted in Falcon Crest?

Casted apart of the team?

A reminder there is no such word as "casted."

Cast is a weird word.

[quote] Who would we say was the biggest guest star cast on Falcon Crest?

Fixed.

Thank you r90 I rightly stand corrected🙈

[quote] Nobody could turn her head like Maggi. EXCUSE ME? —Connie McCashin

Amazing 270 degrees head turn , if my math is correct

The concept behind FC was that it more glamorous than Dallas but not as over the top as Dynasty.

Thanks for that article. I’m glad somebody mentioned the switch from doing everything on film to shooting on film and editing on tape, which was more convenient for the networks but made the shows look cheap, almost like a Norman Lear sitcom.

Thanks for the link, R38. There are several versions of the intro there and they're all great quality!

That said, I think I prefer the below; the music to the later seasons doesn't do it for me. Season six's intro is good too.

r95 I just love the theme tune to Falcon Crest! Great creation by Bill Conti.

I love FC for their cliffhangers.

r88, I'd say Gina Lollobrigida, then Lana Turner, then Leslie Caron, then Kim Novak.

In my opinion the later appearances were stunt casts and didn't work very well, imo. Lauren Hutton, Eddie Albert, Leslie Caron really felt shoehorned into the show. La Lollobrigida's appearance felt a bit more organic.

Lana was bigger than Gina. Novak was bigger than Caron.

I never got the appeal of Miss Jane Wyman. She was the blandest of all of Douglas Sirk's heroines, and in her senior years, she still lacked the presence needed for a primetime matriarch. I could take Barbara Bel Geddes and I could take Julie Harris, but Wyman just left me cold.

r98 Thanks. Am I right that they tried but failed to hire Lauren Bacall? Also no big name male guest casting?

That coldness worked for the role of Aunt Polly in the movie [italic]Pollyanna.[/italic]

R101, the biggest name guest stars were the women; the biggest male name was probably Oscar winner Cliff Robertson in season 3, then Mel Ferrer and Caesar Romero.

Thank you r103

I wonder if it will be revived or reimagined rebooted like Dallas and Dynasty?

Resting bitch face was appropriate for Angela Channing/Jane Wyman. Falcon Crest was campy which the other soaps never were. They had great guest stars - Kim Novak, Morgan Fairchild, Lana Turner, Gina Lollobrigida, Caesar Romero. Lorenzo Lamas was hot as hell, my first celebrity crush. The show went off the rails in the 8th season, who wanted to watch a show about farm hands? The ratings dropped like a rock. The 9th season wasn't that bad, but the show was dead by then.

r105 Was Jane Wyman holding out for a pay rise in the final season as she appeared only briefly?

[Quote] Falcon Crest was campy which the other soaps never were.

?

Big mistake killing off Lana Turner as her character was a great rival to Angela, and Lana brought her glitzy star quality to the show.

r108 I think there were problems between Lana and Jane.

R106, Wyman was in poor health.

r110 Thank you.do we know what with because I think she subsequently did more acting work and lived until 2007?

[quote] Falcon Crest was campy which the other soaps never were.

Excuse me?

I knew I shouldn't have said that. Falcon Crest was a different kind of camp than Dynasty, Dallas, and Knots:

Theme music from Bill Conti was excellent as well, ranks right up there with Dynasty and The colbys.

Jane vs. Lana

In the UK Falcon Crest got a crappy midweek slot and Dallas, Dynasty and Flamingo Road all got Saturday Primetime (which gets the highest ratings in here).

Knot's Landing was a daytime show for most of it's run also.

r116 Wasn't Falcon Crest also given a daytime slot on ITV?

R117 Yes, Thames TV (London) dumped it from Thursday 8pm to Tuesday at 2pm during season 3.

It was pretty much downgraded to afternoon slots by every other network later and only 7 seasons were shown (in some areas even less).

Thanks for the detail. r118

[quote]Was Jane Wyman holding out for a pay rise in the final season as she appeared only briefly?

They spun it as Wyman wanted to focus on her health, but in reality, the showrunners wanted to take the show in a new (disastrous) direction and cutting Wyman's episode order to 6 episodes also helped relieve the budget constraints (Gregory Harrison had a deal with Lorimar and didn't come cheap). Linda Evans also got the same kind of (raw) deal during the last season of Dynasty -- they cut her episode order to only 6 episodes (and Joan Collins' order was cut to 13 episodes).

Ok if the show were rebooted (in my dreams) all the child and baby characters that could appear would be Joseph Giobertis, Richards two sons whose names I forget, Maggie and Chases last kid whose name I forget, Cole and Robins daughter Hope, Emma's daughter Angela, and Lance and Pilar's two children - one was the older girl whose name I forget and the other which was to be born after show ended. I think that they said it was going to be a boy. That's eight people to fight over Falcon Crest.

Simple. Time slot. My mom would watch and by the time it started, she had already had her fill of glitz and glamour and was sleepy

I always thought FC was the most underrated of the primetime soaps. Season 8 is when the series collapsed. Kristian Alfonso was a daytime superstar, but she wasn't much of an actress, so it was really weird when they made her the leading lady. Seriously, she was always in so many scenes per episode, she had to be #1 on the call sheet.

Season 9 is when it REALLY went off the rails. Does anyone remember the batshit Bacchus bash held at FC, which was supposed to honor the God of Wine? The Hells Angels crashed it and the guests ran screaming into the night!

Falcon Crest had a knowing sense of humor about itself. It was enjoyable. I remember Jane Wyman looked so thin and frail late in the show's run. She appeared to be always sitting down, and sometimes (many times) it looked like they used a stand in. That tight brown wig looked awful.

Oh, Jonathan Frakes too! (his hair wasn't tight, but his trousers were)

r120 Many thanks for the detail

I respect the last season for being creatively ambitious, and I think some of it worked. But overall it was a big misfire. The show was retooled to something unrecognizable; it should have been its own spin-off. Half-way through the season they steered away from the cruel and cynical vibe back to being a soap. But obviously it was too late.

They also got the back story wrong where Falcon Crest was only worth 5 million dollar when two years before it was ten times as much. And of course they didn't win me over when they killed off Maggie in this hideous way. I wonder why Susan Sullivan agreed to be in this one episode.

Little fun fact: Andrea Thompson, Genele Ericson, went on to be a CNN newscaster for a few years and is now a real estate agent Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.

[quote]I respect the last season for being creatively ambitious, and I think some of it worked. But overall it was a big misfire. The show was retooled to something unrecognizable; it should have been its own spin-off. Half-way through the season they steered away from the cruel and cynical vibe back to being a soap. But obviously it was too late.

I seem the recall after CBS cancelled The Equalizer, they moved one of the producers to Falcon Crest and he wanted to make the show into a crime drama. At least they ended things on a high note with Angela's nice toast, "People come and go, but the land endures."

r127 Thats a fantastic closing line.

Who would you rather fuck -- Cole or Lance?

Angela had her romances and husbands and of course she was no supermodel but unlike all the other bad girls/women in the other soaps she never used sex to get what she wanted. Of course she sold a baby, hired a doctor to kill someone on the operating table, monopolized all the water rights in the valley for forty years, among other things. . . Lance no question

I'd have a foursome with Lance, Dan Fixx (Brett Cullen), and Eric Stavros (John Callahan).

Fuck Lance of the first season, get fucked by Cole of season 2. Brother Chris can pick position.

Oh, Lance over Cole any day of the week.

Fuck Lance, marry Cole.

r133 Indeed he was dreamy!!

r126 Yes when the writers get important little details wrong it feels like disrespect towards the show and it's viewers to some of the more passionate fans of the show.

Just bought this t-shirt.

r137 Love it!💗 You are clearly a bit of a superfan!

I was never a fan of DALLAS, but I did watch FC when I was a little gayling. I stopped when I started going out with friends on Fridays, and didn’t really care enough to record it. I remember liking Ana Alicia, and the fact that Angela had two crazy daughters.

I haven’t seen FLAMINGO ROAD since it was on, but I remember liking it. And crushing on John Beck! I remember watching the short lived PAPER DOLLS and BARE ESSENCE. All the networks tried multiple prime time soaps, but I guess none really clicked other than the “big 4.”

Supposedly the DVDs look pretty terrible. The show needs to be restored and remastered something fierce. Some of Lorimar’s non-soap shows have been remastered in high definition and are on iTunes that way.

r140 I could only see available the first two seasons to buy in Europe?

R141 Only the first two seasons were Prime Time in the UK, after that it was an afternoon filler show.

It was discussed from R116 for a couple of posts. .

^ Unclench!

Thanks to the poster above who mentioned Promised Land. This show might be just what I need for a follow-up to Falcon Crest without ruining the original (like a FC sequel could). I had high hopes for Kim Cattrall's Filthy Rich, but, man, that show made all the wrong choices, and was stuck in the dramedy niche.

What I am personally hoping for: Display a 'feeling for the land', like FC did so well in its first five years. If you actually film in Sonoma and not just pretend by filming vines around LA, take advantage of the scenery. Show soapy plots that appeal to men and women (preventing them from being too saccharine). Be a drama show, not dramedy. Dramedies are running a huge risk to never go deep with characters. Add humor to the drama, just don't get overboard. And for chrissake, employ excellent actors and directors, not stand-ins in great dresses and make up.

Dynasty and Dallas had good looking leads. Jane Wyman wasn’t exactly a sexy hot thing.

r145 But Barbara Bel Geddes the equivalent matriarch on Dallas wasn't sexy hot stuff either.

This was how she made up for missing out on being the first lady.

There is a new series of novels on Amazon...The Magnolia Chronicles. The first Magnolias and...Honeysuckle and Poinsettias was just released and the book is dedicated to a lot of soap creators:

[quote] Irna Phillips, Agnes Nixon, Frank and Doris Hursley, Bill and Lee Phillip Bell, Roy Winsor, Irving Vendig, Dan Curtis, Douglas Marland, Claire Labine, Tony Warren, Kevin Laffan, David Jacobs, Richard and Esther Shapiro and Earl Hamner Jr. And all the writers and actors of their genre.

[quote]R10 it aired at 10pm… and a series of OLD movie stars guesting on the show: Lana Turner, Cliff Robertson, Kim Novak, Gina Lollobrigida, Leslie Carbon, etc.

I love Leslie Carbon in the haunting, and sometimes zany, “Building Block of Life!”

[quote]R25 It's a pity Joan Crawford died in the 1970s. I think she would have been better value on a 1980s soap opera than Barbara Stanwyck.

She’d never have been sober enough to pull of a weekly show.

r147 The cathartic path in life can be bliss.It is underrated.

New Falcon Crest podcast for fans of the soap.

I just started rewatching the show, and I gotta say, it holds up well. I'm in season 2 right now, the Carlo Aggretti murder season. Some stories are a bit tedious, like Lance trying to be with Lorie and fighting Melissa and Angela. He is just being an entitled jerk who nobody can root for. Other pieces are still unusually entertaining. That relationship between Angela and Emma is amazing. Angela is bullying her as she does with everybody, and Emma practically just shows her the finger. Emma is such an unusual soap character. I'm glad they didn't just discard her after season 1.

By the time it debuted, it was really just more of the same. Whether it was good or not, there were a lot of choices on the shelves.

[quote]Emma is such an unusual soap character. I'm glad they didn't just discard her after season 1.

Emma was one of the best things about Falcon Crest. I always enjoyed the way she stood up to Angela like no one else could!

Am sorry that Margaret Ladd didn't have more of a career after Falcon Crest ended.

After the "dream" bs scene of jr getting shot, i quit watching.

Jane was old and not glamorous like Joan Collins.

Jane had an Oscar and was the ex-wife of the sitting U.S. President, unlike Joan Collins.

Omg imagine if Joan Collins had played Constance Colby. She would have engaged in an epic cunt-off with Joan and then try to fuck Michael Nader, John James, Charlton Heston and Catherine Oxenberg.

I meant Joan CRAWFORD and yes I’ll turn my gay card in.

I like to imagine that if Natalie Wood had lived, she would've chosen Falcon Crest for a season-long arc, reuniting her with her The Blue Veil co-star Jane Wyman.

r157 But she was arguably prestigious and had the kudos of being part of Old Hollywood.

[quote]R159 Omg imagine if Joan Collins had played Constance Colby.

The image of Plain Jane Wyman playing Alexis is better. Jebus, that would have been gold.

R158 R156 oh I get it, just saying from the audience viewpoint.

I didn't get into Falcon Crest until they got rid of Chase, who was insufferable, and they put Maggie and Richard together. I loved Jane Wyman, she was my favorite matriarch, and I loved Melissa and Lance. Watched it about 3-4 years then it went down the shitter again and also the cinematography got yellow for some reason.

I meant R162 not R156

All I remember about Falcon Crest is Susan Sullivan getting her ring stuck in a pool drainage grate and drowning. Oh, and David Selby. I was an odd kid with a daddy crush on Mr. Selby.

In Australia knots landings and falcon crest were daytime shows, with knots sometimes on late at night. I remember FC cliffhanger and it was a plane crash? Loved all the characters tbh. Hated Emma- sorry.

[quote] I remember FC cliffhanger and it was a plane crash?

Every season was a cliffhanger, which was the case for every nighttime soap since the second season of "Dallas." But yes, one of the FC cliffhangers involved a plane crash (they killed off Philip Erickson, played by Mel Ferrer, who was Angela's second husband).

There were a lot of good things about FC, but it started as a very different kind of show when it was conceived, and it never made the transition as clearly to a full-blown night-time soap as the other ones did. It started being about a nephew fighting with his aunt for control of a winery, but then it also became about a newspaper too.

Some of the regular actors were terrific, including all the middle-aged ones (Robert Foxworth, Susan Sullivan, Abby Dalton, and Margaret Ladd). But although i really liked Lance and Melissa as characters (and they were both physically beautiful, and Ana Alicia could act even though Lorenzo Lamas was just a gorgeous stick of wood), the actors who played Chase and Maggie's children didn't have much to work with in terms of turning their characters into interesting ones.

Jane Wyman was very variable as the main villain. She could be hilariously funny sometimes when she was reacting drily to other people's craziness, but she played Angela as icy--which doesn;t play well for a night-time soap/

[quote] one of the FC cliffhangers involved a plane crash (they killed off Philip Erickson, played by Mel Ferrer, who was Angela's second husband).

The plane crash also killed off Dr. Michael Ranson (Cliff Robertson), making Terry a wealthy widow, and Linda Caproni Gioberti (Mary Kate McGeehan), making Cole a widower.

[quote] Hated Emma- sorry. Didn't have the hots for her either in FC's first run. My appreciation really started when watching the show in reruns. Emma also suffered from too many resets. In one season she could be nearly retarded in a clinical sense, and in other seasons she could be very smart (and very empathetic) to everybody's surprise. But overall she won me over because she was usually the only one whose feathers could not be ruffled by Angela.

Margaret Ladd deserves some kudos for keeping her charming even when totally coocoo. It would have been so easy to get her over the soap-top (like Melissa when she stole the baby). But Emma always stayed at least a bit grounded.

Jane Wyman was the reason for the lack of HUGE ratings.

Whoever mentioned Natalie Wood brings up a sad point…she definitely had many more interesting performances in her.

Finances had nothing to do with Jane Wyman only appearing in a few episodes the final season. It really was her health

Wyman was a diabetic. She missed two episodes in 1986 due to health, and another in 1988. Her doctor advised her to quit acting in 1989. When FC was renewed for one more season, she did not want to give up completely, and agreed to do three episodes at the top of the season, and three at the finish.

Her final scene in FC (Angela’s toast to Falcon Crest) was a lovely send-off to her career, but for some reason she agreed to do one episode of Dr, Quinn Medicine Woman, after which her doctors insisted she retire, and she did.

r176 Thanks!! My precum is definitely on its way soon!

[quote]R174 Whoever mentioned Natalie Wood brings up a sad point…she definitely had many more interesting performances in her.

Where was she hiding them her whole career??

Certainly METEOR didn’t reveal any sudden new depth.

I had stopped watching Falcon Crest for a few years but tuned in again only to find Maggie drowning in the swimming pool. It was a chilling scene but a horrible way to write out a long-time character.

Agreed. I am still wondering if Susan Sullivan hated Maggie's demise, was OK with it or actually asked for. Maggie not simply moving somewhere else may have been a necessity because of the two children. If she had just packed up and left, she would have taken the kids with her. So maybe it was necessary for her to die. They could her have died in a different way though. For Maggie a freak accident is so out of - character.

R180, Susan was ready to leave, but wasn't exactly thrilled the way her character ended up.

[quote]JH: Were you upset that they killed off Maggie on Falcon Crest after you had been on for so long?

[quote]SS: I was certainly ready to go but I thought it was such a macabre way to go. I watched recently on YouTube and it was creepy. The set up was that Richard Channing had given her this big diamond ring and she’s at the side of the pool with the kids and one of the toys drops at the bottom of the pool. She says “I’ll get it!” She dives at the bottom of the pool and she gets the ring finger caught on the grate on the drain and drowned. This horrible shot that pulls back of this body hanging from the grate. It was awful!

The setting of the series out on a grape farm wasn’t exactly glamorous. Still you have to admire Jane Wyman’s loyalty to that ugly 50s hairdo.

Thanks for posting that, r181. It looks like she had no say in her character's demise then. Sometimes they ask actors how they want to leave ('marriage or death'). I guess in this case, they didn't tell Sullivan before she signed on for this two episode guest stint.

FALCON CREST was a huge hit in Spain in the late 80's. It aired during the day at lunch time. Wherever you went for lunch, FALCON CREST was on television and people were closely watching. Jane Wyman dubbed into Spanish is surreal.

Why? Is she suddenly ultra sensual?

Oh, no. Ultra strong. Ultra autocratic. Ultra in charge of everything.

R186 So the same as in English?

Who was the fired and re-hired Supervising Producer that was kissing Jane Wyman's ass?

Some more information on Ann Marcus. She’s an underrated writer when it comes to soaps. She’s the one that started the Abby/Gary/Val triangle on Knots and was brought back to fix the mess that was left behind in season 13.

She also did good work at GH and Days.

David Jacobs and Michael Filerman simultaneously had no interest in Back to the Cul-De-Sac yet they also nitpicked and micromanaged Ann within an inch of her life. Much of that shitshow was foisted on her.

Originally, Back to the Cul-De-Sac was going to bring Don Murray back as an evil Sid look-alike. Really.

Ann's autobio, Whistling Girl, is a fantastic read and full of such stuff.

r189 That love triangle enabled some absolutely fantastic scenes!

Since her son was Lorenzo Lamas, was there never any talk of Arlene Dahl coming to the valley?

r192 Good question.

R193 Especially after she had done a well regarded stint on One Life To Live in the early/mid 80's that proved she wasn't rusty.

I would like Cole and Lance to violently double team me.

Cole has aged pretty well. I've seen him guest staring on slot of things. Lance his face not as much.

I was reading some articles about these soaps. Very interesting that Linda Evans was the 1st choice to play Pam (albeit a slightly different script) on Dallas and Robert Foxworth turned down the role of JR.

This show was created by Earl Hamner, The Waltons guy. He's great at boring family shows...rich or poor, it doesn't matter.

I just finished watching season 1 for the first time and I absolutely loved it. The first half of season 1 was a little bit dull at times, but I liked the cast and characters and it had obvious potential. By the second half of season 1, they found their groove and I was completely addicted.

I love the scenery. It adds so much. But it’s not just that, they did such a good job setting a mood and creating an atmosphere. There is so much focus on family and tradition and legacy and it just works so well on this show.

Emma just seemed weird and random to me at the beginning but as the season went on and she started showing more spunk, I really started liking her.

Angela is an interesting one — with Alexis on Dynasty or Abby on Knots Landing, there was a certain charm to the villainess. Angela is kind of just a straight up boss bitch. But she’s a good antagonist.

The episode where Tony comes back and asks Julia to leave with him, only for her to not have the courage to do it at the end was so heartbreaking. She may not be as compelling as some of the other characters but there’s something mysterious about her I find appealing — you know that on the inside, she’s screaming.

But Melissa is definitely my favorite character. She’s so fun and I have to respect her for sleeping with Cole and marrying Lance. There’s such a light but devilish aspect to Ana Alicia’s portrayal. And she is definitely a spoiled brat, but in a fun and intelligent way we just don’t get from 21st Century spoiled brats. And I totally spit out my drink when she decided to tell Lance while they were cutting their wedding cake that she was pregnant, and he said “it isn’t mine,” and she responded “it is now” while shoving wedding cake in his mouth. Lmao.

I am excited for season 2. If this holds its quality, it’s gonna be one of my favorite shows of all time (but from the Knots thread, people already have me tempering my expectations and knowing it’s not going to.)

Uhhh did Abby Dalton have a face lift between seasons one and two? She looks totally different and she’s the only one whose opening credit pictures changed, like they don’t want you to remember what she looked like before.

Bump… where my soap queens at?

Falcon Crest was a huge ratings hit.

Hey, DF. I'm eight episodes into the 1986-87 season and I can tell you that it improves quite a bit at this point.

Chase is a real asshole so far this season.

Cole just sailed away and off the show but he's been a non-entity all season anyhow.

Vicki #2 sucks donkey. Dana Sparks is just awful, awful. Awful. Was there no one else?

Angela is cuntier than usual this season. I was afraid the earthquake would soften her.

Well, the show is done with Abby Dalton. Who did she piss off/what did she do?

I'm almost sorry to see Jeff Wainwright go. Almost. They were fools to write Miss Jones out, though.

My Mom watched Dallas, but for some reason never watched Falcon Crest. She also like Dynasty for a while, but think she got tired of it around the time of the - spoiler - Moldavian massacre. My sisters watched Knots and my brother also watched Dallas (I think Dallas probably did have a larger male following). Falcon Crest is the one I did not have much exposure to and now am tempted to check it out. I will say remember seeing William Moses on the new Perry Mason movies and took notice -- so am kind of curious to see him in a role that might be a bit more steamy. Although I suspect that was more of Lorenzo Lamas's roles. Wasn't Cole more of the good boy - Bobby Ewing type?

[quote] Vicki #2 sucks donkey. Dana Sparks is just awful, awful. Awful. Was there no one else?

And she gets worse from there. I actually don't think that the acting was so bad. The writing for this character was just bad for the entire two (or three?) years Vicki #2 was on the show. She pissed of everyone for acting like spoiled brat. It gets worse when she starts shagging up with Eric Stavros. There was just nothing redeeming Vicki brought to the table. Cole was a good support character in a way that he centered Melissa and Chase. And with Cole and Chase both leaving by the end of this season, Maggie certainly needed a rest of family. But it all fell apart. Vicki didn't bring anything useful to the table.

[quote] Wasn't Cole more of the good boy - Bobby Ewing type?

He was. But a bit more spontaneous or even erratic, less mature than Bobby.

If you're watching FC for the first time, have patience. Season 1 is very episodic and not what it ends up to be. Things take off in season 2.

[quote] Vicki #2 sucks donkey. Dana Sparks is just awful, awful. Awful. Was there no one else?

Oh I didn’t know Dana Sparks was going to be Vicki #2. Vicki #1 is already boring as hell, but Dana Sparks isn’t gonna help matters. I remember she stuck out like a sore thumb on Passions (which already wasn’t exactly full of classically-trained thespians.)

What happened to Jamie Rose, who was Vicki #1? Was she fired? Why was she not asked back?

Vicki #1 was probably let go because her character was extremely boring. Vicky #2 was not boring, just annoying.

Vicki number one was written well and played well. Vicki number two was like a totally different life form. They totally wasted the character.

Back when if was first on I only watched the Kim Novak season and the season after that. Only thing I remember about the Dana Sparks version of Vicki was her hooking up with John Callahan's Eric and him beating the shit out of her. When Callahan resurfaced on All My Children in the early 90s I had a hard time buying him as the heroic romantic character he was cast to play because I recall his Falcon Crest character.

So Cole fucks around with an older woman and acts generally non-concerned while he’s awaiting murder charges and then just like that the charges are dropped in one episode? Lol, a little ridiculous, but I’ll give them a pass for it. But are we just going to forget that we still don’t know who killed Carlo Agretti? I’m assuming they’ll come back to it at some point.

I love what David Selby/Richard Channing adds to the show. While Angela is kind of just a stone cold bitch, he is the charming antagonist more characteristic of an 80s soap. And I love his smile 😁

Vicki is gonna fuck around with an older man again, but nobody cares, including me.

I wish I had seen this show when I was a child, though. I just know it would have captured my imagination in a way it just can’t for a jaded adult.

Oh they're coming back to the murder case. D-facto, I envy you. For us Falcon Crest is a fond memory. You actually get to experience it as a brand new show. I wonder how that works for you. After all the show is a bit dated in a way it tells stories and describes characters. Still, I hope you enjoy the ride. And I hope nobody spoils it here for you.

About Angela and Richard: I love their first scene together in his office. He thinks he has the upper hand when he finally agrees to meet with her. And she is just sitting there, slowly ruffling his feathers in a very low key way, and by the end of her visit he is basically losing it. Good stuff. Great writing and excellent performance from Wyman and Selby.

Thanks r213. I watched Dallas, KL, and Dynasty for the first time back when they reran on SoapNet in the 2000s, and idk why I didn’t bother to watch FC, but I’m so glad I saved it until now. It’s really been such a treat.

It is dated, but mostly I find that to be a good thing. I prefer 80s and 90s shows. Modern tv dramas are all about plot plot plot, and you can practically see the gears turning. Nothing happens that doesn’t advance the plot. The 80s and 90s shows had more heart, and cared more about characters, scenery, and setting a mood. It made each show more unique and less formulaic.

Wait, I though we find out who killed Carlo Agretti in the final episode of season 2? And the killer starts shooting and winds up killing Lana Turner?

Burn in a grease fire!

Chase came off kind of pompous.

Maggie and Richard had great chemistry.

Soap Opera Digest used to give Falcon Crest best prime time time in its year end best and worst issue. It had something going on.

I loved Laura Johnson as Terry and Ana Alicia as Melissa Agretti.

Killing off Melissa was a huge mistake. I would love to know how all that went down. The show suffered from the lose of Ana Alicia immediately. They realized it, points to them for that, at least, and they brought her back as Samantha, but it was a weak, weird storyline. They should have just revealed that Melissa wasn't the one who died in the fire, and she returns.

Didn’t any of you watch HOTEL starring…..

James Brolin

Connie Seleca

Shari Belefonte

The great thing about the character of Chase was that he starts off being almost 100 percent the good guy but gradually he gets so pompous and self righteous that you really start to dislike him and he really is no better or worse than Richard or Angela on some levels. Who did he think he was running for county supervisor after only living there a year or two?

I thought I liked D-Facto until I saw he is a DeSantis-supporting Repuglican. "Don't say gay" DeSantis. "I want my own military" DeSantis. "Killing people by running them people over is OK" DeSantis. "I'm claiming the White House, win or lose" DeSantis.

Barf.

Well, I see it this way: I think DeSantis is a horrible person, and I don't understand how anybody can side with him. But things are never just black and white. I rarely fully agree with anybody. So I'm glad we have at least this guilty pleasure in common.

Do yourself a favor and brew a cup of chicory root coffee to drink during Falcon Crest. It's bitter, like Angela and her harvest.

I'm still in 1986-87 and as a Lorimar soaps superfan, I will not be spoiling anyone. Keep watching and enjoy. Binge as much as you can because, like Knots, it does go down from time to time.

Chicory coffee, bitter harvest... I sounded like Emma Channing.

For some reason I was thinking this was on one of my streaming services, but no such luck for this or Knots Landing, both of which I would like to watch not seeing much of them during their run. I think I can watch Dallas through Prime/IMBD, but feel I remember too much of what happened on that show to make a rewatch worth it.

^ I heard that they're planning on remastering Dallas. Once that's done I'll rewatch from the start. Why certain shows won't become available on streaming - I have no idea. Often cited are royalty fees for songs or singing performances. How would that become a roadblock for streaming? Are those royalties flat fees, not percentages? If so, they should renegotiate. Even a lower renegotiated fee sounds better than no fee at all. Maybe it's a union thing.

Never understood why Dallas, Dynasty and Falcon Crest were referred to as soaps when they only aired one night a week. Soaps by their design are on every day and are about multiple families, not just one.

That's why the word "primetime" was usually put in front of the word "soap."

Angela just came home to find that Emma had turned Falcon Crest into a daycare center.

The bitchiest line Melissa ever had -- and this might be the bitchiest line on any prime time soap -- was when she, Leo, Stavros and Angela were all having dinner. Lance, Melissa's ex whom she's still hot for, walks in with Chao Li's daughter after their date."

Lance: "We went into the city."

Melissa; "Oh. Chinatown?"

R230, I heard that line a few months ago and it does remain one of the bitchiest lines on any of the prime timers of that period.

I'm 3/4 of the way through 1986-87 and now I want to see 1987-88.

R231, is that episode available to view? The moment's ensconced in my memory but I'd love to see it again.

Of course, in today's world, there'd be an uproar and people would want the show punished.

R227 not true

Soaps are melodrama’s with a continuing story and storylines and cliffhangers

And in the UK, NONE of their soaps air 5 days a week, they air 2-3 nights a week, so by your definition, they aren’t soaps

Odd….

I just watched one of the most touching scenes of the series between Angela and Richard. I got a little teary eyed.

I remember they used a scene from Jane’s movie “The Blue Veil” for the flashback when young Angela is told that her baby boy died (in reality her baby was Richard, but I don’t recall what exactly happened to him).

If anything, Vicky #2 is worse than Diana on Knots. Diana is roughly 18/19 during her most obnoxious phase, the Chip phase, and she was maybe 20/21 when written out. Vicky #2 is older than that and has no damn excuse for her petulant behavior near the end of 1986-87. At least Diana was young and her father had died.

Was it set in vineyard country in California? I barely remember it. The name used to crack me up though, I don't know why.

Yes. In the fictional Tuscany Valley.

I just remember the last season (or two) when it got really fucking weird.

Was anyone abducted by aliens?

No but they were kinda held pseudo hostage by dark, menacing people who moved in or some shit. I can barely remember because I barely watched it got so weird. Totally off the tone of the show and as I recall there wasn't a ton of original cast left. Angela was in a coma. Emma seemed to the around a lot more than ever.

The Colbys had the UFO abduction.

I do barely remember the Emma actress, I think she was English and a brunette who always looked like she smelled something bad.

You're getting your Emmas mixed up. Are you thinking of Emma Samms who played Fallon #2 on Dynasty and was British but trying to play American? Or are you thinking of Margaret Ladd, an American actress who was blonde and played Emma Channing on Falcon Crest and held the fort while Angela was "in a coma" the final season? Or are you thinking of Sarah Douglas, who played Miss Pamela Lynch for a couple of seasons on Falcont Crest? She was dark haired, British, and definitely looked like she smelled something bad.

Was it in the first season when Angela said my favorite line: 'I'm a bitch in the boardroom, a bore in the bedroom and a bear on the toilet'

R242, that is a fantastic summation of Miz Samms.

I just started FC 1987-88 season and Leslie Caron is already on my nerves. I miss Cesar Romero.

Maggie has a backbone now. It took them five or six seasons to figure that out. Her new pairing suits her much better.

When I was a teen gayling, we toured the winery and the grounds outside the mansion, obviously we couldn't go inside. The guide said Ms. Wyman used a back brace to give her good posture. They used Hollywood magic to spruce the place up. It looks much different now that when we visited, there are gardens by the front porch instead of blacktop. I imagine when they filmed on location, they needed room for trucks and trailers.

The "falcon" shown in the stained-glass window is actually a parrot, the original owner's last name was Parrott.

Nicole Sauget looks like a spoiled banana. They play her up as all sexy and playful but she's kind of repulsive. Miscast.

R236, Diana was a handful even before her father died.

Go to IMDB TV, bitches. Falcon Crest, all 227 episodes, is now streaming in a legitimate location.

I'd only seen as far as the 1987-88 season, so now I can watch to the bitter end.

Hopefully, Knots and Flamingo Road are next.

R236, Diana was terrible before her father died, but yes, William Sidney's death made her worse.

She didn't welcome Mac the way Michael did.

That old fat pervSuds from SON is whacking his wrinkly old meat watching FC reruns.

This is now on the free IMDB channel, so I can watch it on that through Prime with commercials.

I finished watching the first season. Jamie Rose's Vicki was super annoying. Billy Moses filled out those tight jeans beautifully.

I'm starting with Season 4, which is sorta fascinating so far with the attention they are paying to this Nazi storyline at the expense of some main characters (Melissa has barely been on in episodes 2-4).

Simon MacCorkindale is really dreamy, and I'm not even into blonds.

Vee, who’s in the biz, negotiated Ana Alicia’s contract. Vee is on the biz, you know.

Rewatching season 1, I was surprised how little they gave Susan Sullivan to do. Maggie basically served as sounding board character and to nag Chase and the kids. She had a ton of screen time, but no story. You could tell that Jamie Rose wouldn't last long. She was basically the Lucy Ewing of the show, but without the longevity factor. I think she was the first casualty of the writers' decision to refocus the show on the Angela/Richard conflict.

Does V= brand new sexy Vickie Gioberti?

Jane Wyman's stinky vagina

[quote] Or are you thinking of Sarah Douglas, who played Miss Pamela Lynch for a couple of seasons on Falcont Crest? She was dark haired, British, and definitely looked like she smelled something bad.

That was Jane Wyman I was smelling. They didn't change out her Depends often enough.

Do you think Cesar discussed the BJ technique he used on Desi Arnaz with dear Jane?

I have to say that this show worked better as a once-weekly series rather than something to be binged. The plot holes and plot/character continuity issues when it's binged, especially the first two seasons, are too many to keep track of, and Angela's endless snark becomes pretty tiresome. I swear at points it just felt they were making it up as they went along. Still it's incredibly entertaining. I forgot how wonderful delightful Margaret Ladd was as Emma. I'm not sure Abby Dalton was ever considered a good actress, but she was very effective at times when displaying how pitiful and irrelevant Julia was within the family dynamic. I loved the normal family interactions between the Giobertis. Was a nice contrast to all soapy backstabbing going on up at the big house.

Lana Turner said that Jane Wyman farted all the time.

Jane Wyman looked like she was always holding in a fart.

They were supposed to be full-blooded Italians, but only Lamas had any sort of ethnic look. The rest all looked like Hitler Youth members.

Julia was the most intelligent of them all, but Angela crushed her. Emma was really pitiful in the early seasons.

Crossover Thread: David Selby may have been the best actor on both Dark Shadows and Falcon Crest.

My god, Billy Moses was painful to watch at times, but his beauty made up for his absolute lack of acting ability. He was just gorgeous from head to toe.

Lorenzo Lamas was much more my type, but Billy Moses really was lovely from head to toe.

Lance could be kind of goofy at times. I liked that about him.

Cole was cute and had a killer ass but God, he was self-righteous, almost as bad as Chase.

Why was Abby Dalton so low down in the opening credits those first two years, placing in order AFTER Lamas, Billy Moses and Jamie Rose? She was certainly better known than those three. She should've been third down in the line after Foxworth, or at least have gotten a "with Abby Dalton as Julia" credit before Susan Sullivan's "and" credit. And while we're on the opening credits, who re-negotiated David Selby's contract by season 7, when he jumped ahead of Lamas in the credits to get second billing when Foxwoth left? Lamas couldn't have been very happy about that. Ana Alicia also ascended the credits, jumping from dead last before Sullivan to before Billy Moses and Margaret Ladd at some point.

I remember seeing an interview with Earl Hamner. He didn't specify the actress, but he said that when he told Jane that such and such lady would be joining the show, Jane replied, "She's no lady." Do we think Jane was referring to Lana, or maybe Kim Novak?

I betcha Jane was talking about Lana!

[quote] He didn't specify the actress, but he said that when he told Jane that such and such lady would be joining the show, Jane replied, "She's no lady." Do we think Jane was referring to Lana, or maybe Kim Novak?

She was referring to Cesar Romero, of course.

Just finished watching season 2. Emma was gone for most of the season, road tripping. LOL. Is she autistic? I could tell Julia's car crash was staged. Why would Richard and Henri Denault meet up in the middle of a bridge? I knew one of 'em was going to plunge! When Carlo's killer is revealed, none of the wedding guests gasp or scream out noooooo! Angela says nothing. Melissa does not say YOU BITCH!!! YOU KILLED MY FATHER! There's like no reaction. LMAO! Vicky and Nick got married sooooo quickly. Why? And he's still sleeping with his ex-wife??? Oh, I visited the house in 2018. Yup, got to tour inside and wine taste. Loved it!

Abby Dalton has the strange buck teefs.

Oh no! I had no idea that Abby Dalton died in November 2020!

Abby aged pretty well until that dying thing.

Those cliffhangers were such a big thing. You had to wait all summer to learn who survived or died. It was a tactic of the producers to keep the stars in line and for asking for too much of a raise but we viewers didn't care--it was fun and built up buzz around the show. Tracey Takes On parodied that with Linda Granger--"does she fly or does she die?" Poor old Linda got too greedy and was too coked out so she (SPOILER!) got sucked out of the 747's window.

Wow. Wikipedia says that Abby Dalton's real name was Gladys Marlene Wasden

I remember one year there was an anticipated actor’s strike (or maybe it was writers?) so FC (and other shows) kept shooting through the spring getting episodes stockpiled for the next season. That year, for the first and only time, they were able to close the season finale with a “coming attractions” video of quick clips from the upcoming season.

Paywalled, but Vanity Fair gave me one free article.

"A person friendly with Nancy Reagan told me that in the scrapbooks she keeps of newspaper clippings about her romance and marriage to Ronald Reagan, all mentions of Jane Wyman have been blacked out. In turn, a person friendly with Jane Wyman told me that in private Jane sometimes refers to Nancy Reagan as Nancyvita."

So JW never wrote her autobiography. She really was old school golden age Hollywood.

The Vanity Fair article says Jane was Oscar-nominated five times. Wrong! She was nominated four times, right DL? For The Yearling, Johnny Belinda, The Blue Veil, and Magnificent Obsession.

R282, At her request, Jane Wyman was buried wearing a nun's habit.

Nancy Reagan gave great blowjobs!

[quote] At her request, Jane Wyman was buried wearing a nun's habit.

Also at her request, underneath the habit, Jane was wearing a pair of crotchless panties.

Did Nancy Reagan's pussy stink?

Who cares. She was so good at giving head, I didn't even notice the stench!

Watching season 1 now on imbd tv. It's interesting, but schizophrenic. It's trying to be Dallas, Dynasty, Knots Landing, and Family all at the same time. It all feels very derivative, and none of it really gels. Susan Sullivan is wasted in a thankless role.

Watching the season with Kim Novak. Her acting is terrible.

R289 As a gayling I remember fondly the scene where Skylar fucks hot Daddy John Saxon in the vineyard. It was hawt seeing him running around shirtless.

I'm still in 1987-88, I average about two episodes a day. Ursula Andress was a terrible guest star. I thought Eddie Albert was very good, kindly but menacing. His blond sniper guy was HAF. I want him to hunt me.

Theodore Bikel was just batshit as that white slaver. That was damn good casting. 'I have seven passports! I can be in Bulgaria before they even identify your wife's body!'

Speaking of white slavery, who the fuck would want Brand New Sexy Vickie?

R288, that first season is schizophrenic and feels padded (unlike Season 2). S1 of Falcon Crest might have worked better with a smaller episode count of 13 episodes, instead of 18 or 19 or whatever it was.

I'm dreading 1988-89 because I am not a fan of Kristian Alfonso. Even as Hope on DOOL, she read as

Nancy Reagan v Jane Wyman Feud

I'm loving season 3 (again). Cliff Robertson! Sarah Douglas! Ron Rifkin! Julia Cumson in jail!

I love the scene (s) early in Season 4 after [SPOILER] Michael dies and Terry has dinner over at Chase and Maggie's playing up the tearful widow angle. Then she peels out of the driveway, wipes the tears away, and cranks up the tunes! No doubt she would've also sparked up a fat doobie too (if this wasn't CBS in the 80s). The next day she goes out and buys a Ferrari and fucks Lance. You gotta love Terry's brazenness!

R295, I love that scene with Terry.

Last year, I had some unemployment claims get delayed for months and things were awful. One day, I checked my bank and had been given about $20,000 in back benefits. I went for a walk, in utter shock, but after about a block, I thought about that scene and just started cackling and grinning and sashaying. It was my 'crazy rich young widow' period, ha ha. I love Terry.

IMO, of the big 4 soaps, probably the most shocking season finale ever was the season 2 finale of Falcon Crest, with the revelation of Carlo Agretti's killer. Without giving away any spoilers, it was something to be believed. Nothing can compare.

R297, that was the reveal of all reveals. Very well done.

In the early 90s, I had a Falcon Crest paperback novel. It may still be down in my basement, but I fear I purged it in college. If I recall, it was a novelization of season two, because I remember Richard Channing being prominent. The book had a lot of character detail and motivation. Angela is basically described as a sexy older woman at one point. It's more lyrical, but Big Sexy Angie was my takeaway at 14 (and notice they sexed her up for the book's cover in the link below). Jane must have threatened the cover artist to 'make it sexy or you're out.'

The category is 'Dynasty Realness' - not god-damn Falcon Crest!

Bump

Julia killed Carlo Agretti

R301=Mimi Torchin

I love Chase and Maggie's castle-like house. I visited it at Stag's Leap Ranch and Winery, just north of Napa city.

Even though Season 4 has some far out storylines (Nazis trying to take over FC), I'm enjoying this season. I like how seeing Richard with a big ole soft spot for his step-daughter and Maggie.

And Melissa is definitely bipolar. One moment she's trying to be all sweet and motherly for Cole and Joseph, the next she's fucking Greg Reardon and flirting with Lance. I wonder if her character was written that way on purpose or it was it just the writers doing one thing this week, another the next. Either way, Ana Alicia acted it well.

Good point, R304. She reads the same way in S7, where I'm at. She's all the fuck over the place.

I've become a big fan of Ana-Alicia since re-discovering Falcon Crest. I was in grade school in the 80s and my parents allowed occasional watching of Dallas, Dynasty, or Knots Landing (which my entire family watched), but never Falcon Crest, which was seen as more off-limits/scandalous. I started watching Falcon Crest last September and am up to 1988 in my 'first watch' and dreading Pilar as well as the final season. I will probably start back with S1 and pay more attention to 'how' they did it the second time.

I fucking love Jane Wyman. I try to summon Angela in my daily life.

Susan Sullivan must've gone to the producers after season 2 and request that Maggie develop a spine, because by season 3 Maggie is much more aggressive and outspoken. I'm on season 3/episode 4, and she has read Angela to filth at least 2 or 3 times.

Ugh, Laura Johnson was way too young to play Maggie's sister. Fifteen year age difference between the two actresses! And then Terry hooks up with Dr. Michael Ranson (30+ year age difference!). 🤮

[quote] I fucking love Jane Wyman.

Angela was such a nasty old bitch. But she was always motivated by making FC the best. And though she gets irritated by Richard, Lance, or Emma foiling her schemes she does appreciate when they're crafty and when they stand up to her. That character was way more nuanced than a JR Ewing or Alexis Colby.

When I think of Falcon Crest, I think of this exchange from the Golden Girls.

Rewatching FC now, and even though the role doesn't require much acting on her part, her perma-bitchface and withering remarks are EVERYTHING. She was much more menacing that J.R. and certainly Alexis, and whether it was the writing or her experience, she did give Angela a lot of depth. For all her scheming, you got the sense that she ultimately cared about Lance, Julia, even Chase and Maggie in her own little way. There was a scene early in the third season where Ron Rifkin's Dr. Death went too far with Angela's scheme to have Chase declared incompetent. He was going to let Chase die on the operating table. Angela was horrified that her scheme had gotten out of hand, and you could see her sincere concern for Chase's well-being.

Why must EVERYTHING on this board degenerate into a GG thread? Seriously, EVERYTHING. It's pathetic.

I think the Terry being terrorized by her ex Joel in Season 4 went on way too long. She also had minimal interaction with the other characters, it was just her by the pool or getting out of the shower and him threatening her in multiple episodes. I guess that storyline did get her involved with Richard, so that was a good thing.

Also, the Pamela character was sort of tangential. You could tell they had little for her to do and were waiting for her contract to run out.

Terry and Joel went on way too long!

Also, as much as I love Melissa and Ana-Alicia, she is really wearing thin by the spring of 1988. BTW, Halloween II has been ruined for me because the character of Janet is very clearly Melissa Agretti with her season 1 hair.

Glad to finally see this one in rotation again. I remember Lifetime showing it fairly briefly in the late 80s.

Did I mention I am watching it in tandem with Dark Shadows? They fit together nicely and not just because of David Selby.

Season 5 builds a compelling case of multiple personalities with Morgan Fairchild's character, then she gets "cured" of the illness in one scene, taken hostage in the cliffhanger with anecdotal resolution in the first episode of Season 6.

R314, wasn't that annoying? That's what that season feels like a big waste to me. So much of it seems to get thrown out at the beginning of Season 6. I actually liked Season 6 better than Seasons 4 and 5. Season 7 is absolutely schizophrenic. Maggie has become a drunk in the course of one episode. Honestly, I left the room to get another can of carbonated water and when I came back, she'd become an alcoholic.

I forgot Dana Andrews appeared in a few brief throwaway scenes in season 1 and 2. I'm guessing Jane was good enough to toss her old friend some work so that he could maintain his health insurance. I'm loving crazy campy Julia in season 3. Abby Dalton is putting in some good work, although nothing about her descent in madness makes any sense whatsoever. The generally good acting and overall gothic ambiance of the show make it all somehow work.

R316, I love Julia's Kay Aberdeen wig and persona from S3.

I totally missed Dana Andrews!

Wait, who did Dana Andrews play in seasons 1 and 2? I'm now starting season 4.

What did happen to Tuscany Downs? It was a big deal and then no one talked about it anymore and it was all about that stupid Del Oro spa.

Dana Andrews played Elliot McKay. His son was Chase's colleague on the board of supervisors who committed suicide in season 1. He and Foxworth shared a couple of scenes together. He came back for a second appearance in season 2. He shared one scene with Jane, where Angela visits a dying Elliot in the hospital in order to get his land. A few scenes later, Angela is told he died. One of those if you blinked you missed him appearances.

Now I want to watch Preminger's Laura before bed...

the two major things I would have changed on FC is I wouldn't have killed off Melissa or Maggie.

They could have paid for Susan Sullivan for three episodes; she leaves in the premiere of the final season even though Richard is getting out of jail; she comes back in the last two episodes and they go off happily together.

I heard a rumor they were going to resurrect somehow Terry (Laura Johnson) for last season; and then, the deal didn't happen so they created Geniele? (spelling?) she was a hoot.

I don't think ANYONE was happy about Maggie and Melissa being killed off. It was needless, crude, and short sighted, not just in hindsight. With Maggie, I kinda understand that she needed to be completely out of the picture. Had she lived she would have taken the kids wherever she would have left. And the kids were admittedly a good way to humanize Richard in the last season. And I kinda liked the stories with the kids and Lauren. I liked Lauren anyway, not as a Maggie substitute. She more like a Krystle to Richard, appealing to his softer side, like Krystle to Blake. I though that was a good move.

Cole needed to grudge fuck Lance. The show should've gone there.

I didn't watch the last few years. I didn't realize Maggie had more kids. How did they explain menopausal Maggie, with two 30-year-old kids, suddenly being fertile? That sounds right up there with the absurdity of Lucy's Yours Mine and Ours pregnancy.

Maggie only had the one babby R326. The other one was Richard's kid with Anne Archer that Maggie adopted after she married Richard. It did stretch credibility that she popped out a babby when she was pushing 50, though.

Why did Jamie Rose leave early in the third season? Was it her decision, or was she fired? I found her character relatable and and I feel she helped to ground the show. The actress they hired when they brought the character back a few years later was awful.

Jamie Rose was fired. The Vickie character was underutilized in season 2 (she had an affair with an older, married man and later QUICKLY married him...lame!). Vickie was let go from the show to make way for Michael Ranson and Terry.

Sullivan was 44, 45 when Maggie was pregnant again. It's possible, but yeah a bit of a stretch.

Sullivan looked older than her age. She looked a good 10 years older than her true age, even back on her Another World days. I have to say that she has aged beautifully. If she's had any work done, it's been very subtle. Her plastic surgeon should win an award. Jamie Rose also looks terrific.

Jamie Rose wasn't fired, she looked for other jobs. Right after her last appearance on FALCON CREST in 1983 she worked on Clint Eastwood's TIGHTROPE and Bobby Roth's HEARTBREAKERS which were both released the next year. After that she was the lead in the cop series LADY BLUE that lasted only one season (1985-86). Since then she guested in many series until GREY'S ANATOMY a few years back.

I never thought that Dana Sparks was awful - Vicki was terrible no matter who played her. I wanted her gone with the slave trader. Just as Diana on KNOTS LANDING Vicki was unnerving and not entertaining to watch (certainly no Paige Matheson or Olivia Cunningham). DALLAS's Lucy - who was mentioned here too - had some funny moments when sarcastic with J.R. but the actress didn't have the range Jamie Rose had, or Dana Sparks. Didn't matter because Charlene Tilton was charming.

I wonder if being a lead on a prime time show for one season and having other credits -- thinking Jamie Rose here -- if that's enough to be set for life IF one invests well and doesn't live too high on the hog.

For one season and you’re not a “name”? No, that’s not enough.

Jamie lasted two full seasons, and then did a few episodes in season 3. To her credit, with the many, many cast changes over the years, she is still remembered as one of the core actors during its glory years, along with Foxworth, Sullivan, Selby, Wyman, Ladd, Dalton, Moses, Lamas and Alicia.

R334, didn't think so.

It's why I think daytime soap stars/actors should stay forever. Their ship has come in. They get the role and if they're tied to a core family then freaking STAY.

Get the house. Get the car. Have the kids -- as someone really smart put it. And have a GREAT LIFE.

Say they were cast in the 1990s -- when soaps still had bucks to throw around -- and they made $250K to $750K a year. They can still be bringing in $150-$200K a year now.

I can't wait to see Romeo....in his tights!

I forgot what a snooze Cliff Robertson's character was in season 3. And his bad toupee is something to be believed. Did Robertson only sign on for the one season? His name appearing dramatically after the final scene of each episode was just so completely over the top. Even Lana hadn't gotten that the first two seasons.

R338, his name appearing at the end was always fucking up the cliffhanger for each episode. Clunky and awful. Morgan Fairchild got the same treatment.

R337, do you mean Cesar Romero? Emma didn't need him. She got her own boy toy, the incredible Hulk.

Angela was a fascinating character - and quite original - because she was the rare example of a powerful, shrewd businesswoman who never had to use sex or sexual charms to achieve her ends. This cannot be said of Alexis and Abby. Crafty characters in their own right (Abby arguably being smarter than Alexis), both only achieved - and maintained - power through sex and sexual manipulation. Never Angela.

Also, that a woman in her 60s was the LEAD of a show in the 80s was unprecedented.

In writing about Falcon Crest, I saw a brilliant sentence sort of summing up the silent power of Jane Wyman and Angela Channing. It compared the length of the show with Reagan's presidency, both of which last through the 80s; he last eight years. She lasted NINE.

Re the Jane/Lana feud, I recently watched seasons 1-2, and maybe except for one scene in the winery early in season 2, they definitely were both physically present in their scenes. Nothing was spliced together or edited to make it seem they were both in a scene. I think their feud was overblown.

I wanted to rip that stupid rug off Cliff Robertson’s head.

God, Emma became super-annoying. I thought she was delightfully wacky the first two seasons. They tried to "normalize" her by season 3, and it just didn't work. Richard making her head of editorial or something at the Globe. WTF! And she actually thought she'd have a shot as Cliff Robertson's character, especially with walking sex Terry parading her pussy in front of his face.

How's tricks Mother?

Angela terrified me when I watched this as a kid with my mom. Lorenzo Lamas made me gay.

Angela was kind of scary to me as a kid, too. I didn't watch the show, but I liked to take the household TV Guides and cut out heads of stars from the ads for shows. I would then create paper doll bodies for them and tape the celebrity head to the body. Then I had TV paper dolls. I didn't even watch Knots or Falcon Crest yet, but I had a Donna Mills, a Ted Shackelford, a Susan Sullivan, and such. I didn't know who Jane Wyman or Angela were, but I often used her as the big bad of whatever story I was creating. That grimacing face reminded me of late stage Bette Davis, who was still alive (barely) at that point. When Angela scowled, she was scary.

Apparently, Lana showed up late on the set, which irritated the always-punctual Jane and Lana started to claim she was the reason the show was a success, which obviously pissed Jane off, rightfully so. Team Jane.

It's a good thing Lana didn't bring her daughter Cheryl Crane to the FC set. She would've stabbed Jane like she did with Johnny Stomponato!

There's a long OOP book called Soap Opera Babylon, by Jason Bonderoff (one of my favorite writers who covered the genre), and it had a whole section, if not a chapter, on the various feuds of Falcon Crest. I have it somewhere and it had some decent gossip.

I used to have a book called TV Babylon and it had dish on Laura Johnson (Terry) in relation to her marriage to Harry Hamlin. Only once I started watching FC last year did I realize I had long thought Harry Hamlin and Lorenzo Lamas to be the same person.

Seasons 2 and 3 were so good. Now I'm starting season 4, which I expect to be the start of the show's decline...though I always found Simon MacCorkindale (R.I.P.) to be sooooo hot.

Jane vs. Foxworth, Jane vs. Lana, Jane vs. Mel Ferrer. Anyone else seeing a common denominator here? Who else feuded?

Don't forget Jane vs. Ann Marcus, the writer.

Didn't Jane ax the gay story editor couple, too?

She WAS Angela Channing.

Was it that she had Mel Ferrer fired, or was it that she didn't pull any strings to save his job when the producers decided to axe him? I thought he was great on the show. Loved his scenes with Jane.

I loved the episode where Angela says her classic line:'I'm a bitch in the boardroom, a bore in the bedroom and a bear on the toilet!' That one line completely defined the character!

R354, I think I recall Mel gave a TV Guide interview after his exit and accused Jane of firing him after he displeased her somehow. I didn't like the character of Phillip.

Chase really stinks the show up.

One of my favorite moments on this show was in S3: the weird, fake flashbacks to Julia and Carlo's affair to explain Julia's murderous turn. They are hilarious and they don't really match up to what we did see.

I didn't remember how awful an actress Ana Alicia was. She had some comic ability, but her dramatic scenes are cringeworthy.

R355, I think she said that in the episode where Lucille Ball guested as an old rival for two episodes. Must have been in the Freilich years.

I still can't believe Angela fingered Lucy as the killer!

How is the world did Hamner get the name "Lance Cumson" past the censors?

Season 2: Richard says he can't be the father of Melissa's baby because he had a vasectomy. Is he lying? Later on he has children with Cassandra and Maggie. 🍆💦💦💦🍑

Jamie Rose has been an acting coach for a while now.

^ I don't know her.

Didn't Jane also put the kibosh on the storyline with Jane Badler and Miss Jones? Weren't they originally supposed to be lesbian girlfriends, but Catholic Jane disapproved so they made them sisters (the biological kind). I think the lesbian angle would've been much better storytelling and probably would've boosted the ratings with some scandalous buzz.

Fundie extraordinaire Susan Howard pulled the same stunt on Dallas. When she got wind that Barbara Carrera's and Marete von Kemp's characters were supposed to be lesbian lovers (in the dream season), she went to the producers and threatened to quit unless they put the kibosh on that angle. They gave into her demands.

Jane was buried in a nun’s habit?

Any gossip on Jane's dick sucking skills? I'm guessing she couldn't come anywhere near Nancy Davis' talents in that regard.

Jane seemed like the type who would do the rosary and loudly pray for forgiveness before getting to work on her knees. Not Nancy, she knew the way to a man’s wallet was through his cock.

Why didn’t Jane bring Rock Hudson on FC? And what did she think of Kim Novak?

Angela was hardcore. She convinced Melissa (promising her she would inherit Angela's share of FC) to hand over her child to Cole, so Chase would return half of the company to Angela.

Angela also pushed Julia into the arms of Melissa's father for them to marry and unite both vineyards. That turned into a disaster, as we all know

BTW, the first time we see Melissa, she's played by a different actress. After her father died, Ana Alicia plays her (in that dramatic scene on horseback with Lance approaching her on horseback as well).

I had to LOL on Richard being so sure of having a vasectomy and then have to find out the procedure was botched up.

My most favorite cliffhanger was the earthquake one with Emma screaming: We are all going to die!

I think by the time FC began OD-ing on old time Hollywood guest stars, Rock was committed to Dynasty and/or dying. I don't think Jane had much use for Hollywood bimbos like Lana or Kim Novak, but their appearances had great camp appeal. I heard she absolutely loathed Gina Lollobrigida and was standoffish with Celeste Holm. Reading this thread, was there anyone that Jane DID LIKE or got along well with? I think she and Abby Dalton were relatively close and I heard she enjoyed working with Selby, but not sure who else. She and Mel Ferrer were good buddies until he was let go.

Jane took Lorenzo under her wing. He showed up on the set high and was unable to perform, so she closed the set for the day and gave him a warning not to do it ever again. He says he followed her orders. She also liked David Selby.

The crew loved Jane. Think Norma Desmond visiting Paramount in Sunset Boulevard.

Jane/Angela reminds me of my grandmother. She's tough and scares the other grandchildren, but relates to me more as a younger friend. I've been told that I am the only one who takes after her. So I get a kick out of Angela.

I enjoyed when Angela got in the middle of Richard and Chase's fistfight, Chase ducks, and Richard knocked her out. Chase says, "she'll blame me because I ducked". When she wakes up she says "this wouldn't have happened if Chase ducked." It's this kind of stuff that made FC so good. That and Pamela Lynch's jumpsuits and mullets!

R373 is as loony tunes as Emma. Get a fuckin' life.

Richard accidentally punching Angela out was unexpected and much funnier than it should have been.

How's tricks R374?

Jane Wyman supposedly asked Kim Novak to sign up for season 7, but Kim declined as she wanted to get back to her animals and her painting. Jane liked Kim because unlike Lana, Kim showed up on the set on time, knew her lines, hit her marks and got the job done. No Lana Turner diva antics from Kim. Most likely because Kim wanted to get work done and go home to her ranch outside Carmel.

Lana really stunk up FC. Yes, she still had the mystique of old time Hollywood glamour, but her acting was really just beyond atrocious. I can see her pulling diva antics. Jane was not having any of that on HER series.

[quote] Richard says he can't be the father of Melissa's baby because he had a vasectomy. Is he lying? Later on he has children with Cassandra and Maggie.

He really had a vasectomy and he thought it was successful. When Cassandra told him that he was the father of her child, he rejected her. She left and when she died in child birth, the child ended up with him. (Didn't Terry even try a paternity test right before her demise?) Maggie's child was Chase's (which Melissa tried to conceal. But that's a different story...)

Interesting tidbit: Abby Dalton and Victoria Racimo, who played the prison guard who was merciless with Julia throughout season 3, died 6 days apart in 2020: November 23 and November 29, respectively.

Season 4: Angela has a new attorney, handsome Greg (total '80s look, of course he wants Melissa the Mess). Richard's stepdaughter, Lorraine, arrives (that actress was later in Pretty in Pink). How did Angela know that Maggie was adopted??! Julia's back! Richard lost The New Globe (to Angela/Lance) and now he's bought a radio station? Zzzzzz! Terry, who now has millions, should pay a hit man to kill her ex, Joel (Parker Stevenson, who turns 70 this year).

I'm watching season 4 now. I'm probably in the minority, but I like the Nazi storyline.

The end of Season 4 felt really thrown together, especially the cliffhanger. Suddenly all of the main characters want to kill Richard and his house gets blown up. But it did set up some fun storylines for Season 5, like Robin seducing Cole and getting pregnant. I absolutely hated Connie and they made Chase REALLY obnoxious and preachy. Terry basically had little to do in Season 4 except grooming Small Virtue and chase after Reardon--it was a waste of Laura Johnson.

Seven episodes into season 4 and poor Emma has NOTHING to do. She doesn't even have her exec job at The New Globe! But she did say "how's tricks?" to her mother once thus far. LOL

I loved the Nazi treasure adventure. Just as I loved the whodunit investigation in season 2. But the show got crazy after the earthquake cliffhanger with a scam artists pretending to be some ultra rich guy's daughter (really, he never even knew how his estranged daughter looks like? He didn't keep tabs on her?) or in later seasons that super secretive organization killing Ursula Andress' character just to send Richard a message?

The Nazi story isn't that bad in Season 4; the big problem is that once they aborted it, the rest of the season is literally just thrust at us (Cassandra Wilder and Riker! Melissa's infertility and cousin arriving at the same time! Connie Giannini!) and much of it has no arc or plan. Plus, they drag out Lance's trial and then kill of Lorraine (who was not a great actress, but the idea of that character was a good one, causing friction among the Channings, especially if the baby had been allowed to live).

I'm knee-deep in those last episodes now, and looking forward to Season 5.

Someone high up at CBS must've loved Laura Johnson, but the Terry character was all over the map. I'm in season 4, and Susan Sullivan is FINALLY getting a story of her own, with her search for her mother. Before that, she's mostly been a talk-to/reaction character, or used as a plot device in other storylines (notably, the brain tumor and Jacqueline article plots).

Carla Borelli was great as Connie.

Joseph had to have grown up to be either a drug addict or gay. I don't know why but I just feel that way. He also would have an accent.

FC after season 2 is such a train wreck. Nothing makes any sense. It feels like the writers are making it up as they go along, but I just can't stop watching. The storytelling is hysterically bad and there's zero continuity, but the individual scenes can be really witty. And of course, Jane Wyman with her withering looks and insults is everything. I could watch her read the proverbial phone book.

R390, I'm 'new' to Falcon Crest of late, but it reminds me of how I felt watching Melrose Place circa 1994-96. It's topsy turvy but mesmerizing.

I've always been a big Knots fan, I 'discovered' it in reruns on TNT as a gayling, and it's been fun working my way through a similar but very distinct Lorimar soap again. Because I read up on soap opera history as a teen, I'd seen summaries of stories and spoilers, etc., but for me the fun is in how they do it.

Falcon Crest has its own energy, very separate from the others. Of all the three big nighttime soaps of the 80s, I feel it comes closest to Knots Landing.

I think Falcon Crest suffered from too much studio intervention. Dallas was a big hit, and Leonard Katzman knew how to handle the show. So they could do their thing.

FC was never a sure thing, so the studio meddled much more, and it showed. The show must have had like five different showrunners in a nine year run. And they all tried to put their own spin on it. Some more successful than others. That's why you think that almost every year, especially at the end, you think you're watching a different show.

Excellent points, R392.

I'm watching S7's 'Stormy Weather' right now, it's a rainy night here in the Pacific NW, so it's a perfect fit.

"Miss Channing, Miss Channing! The winery is flooding!"

I'm watching season 6 and Brett Cullen as Dan Fixx is hot as fuck.

Stormy Weather is one of the best episodes. Everyone having to spend the night on FC was like they were all stuck in an elevator together. The sandbagging scene is great.

David Selby is a good actor, and maybe it's just me, but he just sucks the life out of the show IMO. An episode comes to a screeching halt when he appears. The character doesn't seem necessary and is without clear motivation, and besides that, he is really annoying. They could've mined the Chase/Angela conflict for years and concentrated on the Tuscany Valley characters without bringing in his anti-hero character and all that cartel garbage into the mix.

I think Richard was just the JR of Falcon Crest. I guess the producers felt the show needed that male villain type to appeal to the Dallas demographic, which finds Dallas' JR appealing.

Richard Channing from FC and Greg Sumner from Knots seemed to be extracted from the same bin.

I thought Richard was excellent, in writing and acting. You rarely see a villain played with so much tenderness. J.R. or Alexis were never tender or looked vulnerable, Abby only when Olivia got hurt in some way. Greg Sumner was too stoic when vulnerable, imo. Angela was very rarely vulnerable, only when Julia died and then when she came back. But Richard was basically a bruised man who didn't know how to deal with his grief. I liked him a lot. It helped that that blood thirsty tycoon had a fondness for... milk. Of all the prime time villains he had the broadest range.

[quote] Alexis were never tender or looked vulnerable.

She was when it came to her children.

Alexis was a cartoon character.

Richard was much more interesting to me than Chase (though that was mostly on the actors).

I found Chase much more relatable than Richard. Foxworth is a much more down to earth actor and exudes a certain warmth, than the tic-y Selby, who I've found annoying in just about everything he's done. Chase and Maggie were a much more rootable couple than Richard and Maggie. Was recently watching some season 4 scenes with Richard and Maggie in which they seem to develop some sort of platonic relationship, and Selby and Sullivan have zero chemistry.

[quote] Chase and Maggie were a much more rootable couple than Richard and Maggie.

I agree with that. I think any soap needed a long -term steady couple that grounds the show, like Blake/Krystle or Miss Ellie and her husbands. Chase and Maggie needed to be the harmonic couple in order to be a counter weight for all those other shenanigan couple. And those two HAD chemistry. Maggie and Richard worked perfectly fine as platonic friends. They had the bond of not knowing where they came from which seemed to me sufficient reason for their bond. But making them a couple was just wrong.

I'm on Season 5. The Lance and Appolonia storyline is sometimes painful to watch-her acting is REALLY bad. Emma's finally getting that Dwayne dick and getting her digs in at Angela. And the engagement party scene where Angela tells the whole valley that Cole is Robin's baby daddy--that was classic Angela at her finest cuntyness! And did Julia get a special exemption at the nunnery for hairspray and makeup? She's got that swoop hairdo going on that looks out of place with her potato sack dress.

I finally watched the premiere episode. Wow - was Billy Moses green. It might not have helped that most of his scenes were with his sister, who at least from the first episode, I would not mind if she perished in some wine vat accident. But damn, did they pick out old, faded jeans that clinged very nicely to a prime ass (his face and body not bad either).

Interesting to see Angela pretending to be nice to Chase and Maggie while twirling her mustache with Lance when they were not looking. Lamas seems a bit green himself, but you can see potential for him to be a good gray to villain character.

I have been watching old Hawaii 5-O episodes lately (that show had more outlandish plots than I had remembered). Maggie completely stole her opening credits spin from Jack Lord, and Chin Ho Kelly in his first few seasons opening shot. Forgot how much I had crushed on early seasons Danno, and it s pretty clear that many episodes were clearly written by Jack Lord's ego.

Susan Sullivan stole her pivot from former It's a Living co-star Barrie Youngfellow. I thought that was common knowledge.

Obviously, Barrie Youngfellow was a big Jack Lord fan. She was probably guested as a hippy that were always so realistically portrayed in the show's early seasons.

Is there ANYONE that Jane got along with? Seems that she feuded or was distant with just about everyone, from regulars to the guest celebs that did short stints. I love her resting bitchface.

[quote] Susan Sullivan stole her pivot from former It's a Living co-star Barrie Youngfellow.

Fake news R408. I invented the opening credits pivot.

I have a soft spot for the Constance McCashin pivot during her final season Knots. Her body and facial language telegraph "FUCK YOU!"

Someone created alternate opening credits for the various seasons of Falcon Crest, but I like on this one they kept Susan Sullivan's pivot. Everyone else got something different.

Watching the fourth season now. Curiously, they sidelined Ana Alicia. It's like they had no idea what to do with Melissa. Her airtime really diminished when they paired Melissa back up with boring Cole. I also wish they gave Margaret Ladd more to do than just be the wacky moral center of Falcon Crest. Also, Laura Johnson's Terry is oddly islanded in her storyline with Parker Stevenson's Joel, and is mostly disconnected from the rest of the canvas. It's almost as if Terry and Joel are on a different show.

On the plus side, I am enjoying the Nazi storyline, even though I know it will come to a sudden end, and I also like Jane Greer as Maggie's biological mother. I read that Ginger Rogers wanted the role, but the producers thought she was too old to be Susan Sullivan's mother. Gina Lollobrigita just left after her 4 or so episode deal, and I thought she was a campy hoot as Francesca. She and Selby were fun together. I loathe Richard's out-of-the-blue whiny step-daughter Lorraine. She is boring as hell and the actress sucks. I hope she doesn't last very long.

Season 4, episode 18: Gustav the cartel guy dies in a cave-in and it's revealed that other cartel thugs (like Spheeris) have been assassinated. So is the cartel really over? Just like that? So abrupt! The writers just dropped the cartel storylines with 12 more episodes left in season 4? Reminds of Dynasty, season 6, when the kidnapped Krystle/lookalike Rita/George Hamilton storyline ended abruptly halfway through the season.

I wanted to do a pivot in the Lucy Show credits, but Gary talked me out of it.

Margaret Ladd actually steals Maggie’s pivot thunder by doing a slow pivot first.

Isn’t there a credits somewhere where it’s the FC credits with the Knots landing theme (or Vice-versa)?

R360, I always use the cases of Richard Channing and Victor Newman as to why vasectomies do not work.

For r417.

Thank you, r419. That was totally fab!

r419's video made me realize: The first head pivot actually was done by the falcon at the very end of season 1's intro when Earl Hamner's credit show.

I'm into Season 5 now, and man is it kinda boring so far (only 5 episodes in). They've completely defanged Cassandra, and Melissa is whimpering around her cunty cousin and Cole, and Maggie's amnesia isn't really compelling. Terry and Lance are even kinda boring. Celeste Holm is kinda boring. And Greg Reardon just magically figures out the arson and exposes Celeste Holm in ten seconds.

Apollonia is showing up soon, and I'm ready.

S5 was a slog for me. I just tried to push through to the earthquake.

I wasn't a fan of any of the big four prime time soaps during the 1985-86 season. They were all off their game.

Falcon Crest peaked too early. Season 1 and 2 were best IMO. Dallas and Knots built more slowly. Knots really didn't peak in popularity till its 6th season.

IMO Maggie's Season 5 pivot was the best. She really got into it. Some of the other seasons she was just going through the pivot motions.

Whaaaaa? Lorraine was recovering, alert and sitting up in bed, marrying Lance in her hospital room...and then in the next episode she's brain dead after an operation! It's as if the writers decided to kill her off at the last minute.

The writing on FC was all over the place after the first few seasons. It's like they kept bringing new people on, then didn't know what to do with them. Cassandra Wilder was pointless after her mother got shipped to the looney bin. Then there was Father Christopher, who could've stuck around as a foil to Lance and Angela and another heir to FC. Maybe he could have made an alliance with Chase against Angela. That would've been more interesting than Stavros being kidnapped by his daughter (yawn). Miss Jones and Angela's machinations against Chase are pretty fun, though.

I'm 2/3 the way through Season 5--I have to say Terry's gowns were stunning in the first part of the season, like the gold number she wears when blackmailing Richard into marriage. Then post marriage, she's dressed like Karen Fairgate, matronly pantsuits with shoulder pads. I guess they wanted her to dress more like the respectable wife. I liked badass, DGAF Terry better.

The whole Jordan storyline is also a bore, but I'm at the part where her hooker alter-ego is coming out. Maybe it'll get better.

The one off character they brought in for a short time was Angela's British secretary. You thought they were going somewhere with her but nothing.

There was a strange ending of a storyline where the local police chief leaves and Angela sends some disgraced lawyer after him to cause him trouble at his next job. Was that plot supposed to lead to a spin-off?

R429, I think John Aprea left to play Manny Vasquez on Knots and the sheriff's abrupt departure facilitated that.

I just finished 1987-88. I dread Kristian Alfonso but await the departure of Dana Sparks.

I think Melissa fucked just about every man on the show with the exception of Chase and Chao Li. She, as they say, went around the block a few times.

Tonight, I took a break from Falcon Crest (on fire for the second time, last I saw it) to start The Thorn Birds. I got ripped high before starting it on Tubi and as soon as I saw Stanwyck's portrait hanging on the wall before her star entrance, I let out a squeal: "oh, she's going to be like a dirtier Angela Channing!"

My cat has left the room. She has much better taste than I do.

I loved it when Lance was dating Chao Li's daughter; Lance and she walk in on a dinner with Angela, Eric, Peter, and Melissa.

Lance says he's taking Chao Li's daughter into the city.

Melissa: "Oh? Chinatown?"

It was incredibly bitchy of Melissa to say it in the way she did.

Season 5: Lance and Apollonia are having a pool part. Angela comes by, frowning, and tells Lance "I don't want you hanging you around that Babylonia character". LMAO!!!!!!

One season Melissa is marrying someone. At the bachelor party somebody says hey there's only one guy here who hasn't slept with Melissa. Then a fight breaks out.

Season 5: Emma is, what, 40? What does she do all day long? Why isn't she back at the New Globe? And, OMFG, she's at a bar and a hunky, muscular, 30-year-old trucker falls in love with her??! Seriously? In real life, that trucker ("Dwayne", terrible name) would go for a younger, sluttier thing like Melissa or even Terry. LMAO!

Ronald Reagan really had a type. He loved a vinegary, cunty thin lipped ball buster.

[quote] Ronald Reagan really had a type. He loved a vinegary, cunty thin lipped ball buster.

But Ronny had to get rid of Jane because she wouldn't suck cock like Nancy.

Ron got rid of Jane because she was a staunchly right-wing Republican. Jane wouldn't allow a hint of homosexuality on FC, which is ironic, because there was sexual tension underlying the Angela/Melissa relationship.

Stepford Melissa in season 4 is just painful to watch. And Terry and that damn horse! The whole season seems aimless. After they cut the Nazi storyline short, the rest of the season seems hastily re-written, with characters in their own little bubble with no thrusting arc. The new post-Nazi characters are dreadful...Cassandra, Damon, Robin Agretti, Connie Giannini, and Lorraine, who technically appeared earlier in the season.

I love the actress who played Connie Giannini, but the character was a mess. If she was meant to be a homewrecking ho, write her as such.

S5 is really uneven but I'm enjoying it much more than S4. I miss Pamela Lynch, but Miss Jones is a hoot.

Damn, I thought I was the only one who loves Sarah Douglas in Falcon Crest. She had a great line with Simon MacCorkindale's Greg Reardon in one episode which went like "compared to you, I lie quite often". Still chuckle about her line and her line delivery. She also made a comic relief guest appearance on Remington Steele as one of Remington's former associates.

I...don't...pivot, r416.

Fun facts: (1) Carla Borelli, who played Connie Giannini, is married IRL to Donald May, who played Bradford Linton in the Anne Archer storyline at the same time. May just recently passed away. (2) It's widely believed that Borelli was the first choice for Reva on Guiding Light, based on her "Texas" association with HW Pam Long. EP Gail Kobe wanted Kim Zimmer, and she obviously prevailed.

[quote] sexual tension underlying the Angela/Melissa relationship

Even if they were copulating naked next to the pool, I would not be able to see tension of sexual nature between those two.

Btw, Ana-Alicia was apparently as much of a solid Catholic as Jane Wyman was. I understand that a slutty and catty character is still just a character. But man, Ana-Alicia played the sex hungry bitch with so much fun and energy. Just watching her playing Melissa makes FC worthwhile.

The last part of Season 5 wasn't too bad, I sort of enjoyed the campy fun of slutty Monica, the sweet romance of Emma/Dwayne, the infighting between Richard/Terry, and the arrival of Chao Li's daughter. Eric Stavros was a better character for the show than dull old Father Christopher. The Jeff Wainwright storyline was kind of a bore--Maggie yet again as the damsel in distress.

I'm on Season 6 now. Kim Novak's bad accent and wig in the first episode were pretty cheezy. I think they were going for a Hitchcockian vibe with this season, like when Kit is on the run sleeping in her car and awakened by a police officer (like Marian in Psycho). And of course Kim Novak herself and the whole double identity storyline was a nod to Vertigo.

I'm in S8 and I can't look at Brandon Douglas aka Ben Agretti and not see a baby dyke. It's there!

Nick Agretti is pretty.

Things are very forlorn without Melissa.

Maggie's hair is horrid and she always looks tired.

Kristian Alfonso is terrible.

Emma seems to be on her own show now, with the RD Young business.

Yup, season 8 got the most prestigious award for 'Most Ruined. Show' of that year. And season 9 is yet to come...

Starting season 5 now. Who the hell greenlit the Maggie amnesia storyline? Just unwatchable. I felt embarrassed for Susan Sullivan and Robert Foxworth for having to play that out.

Margaret Ladd said that Jane’s snatch stunk!

Season 8 was awful, and it's principally because they killed off Melissa.

It was interesting how quickly they realized that they had blown it, but then they made it worse by bringing her back as "Samantha," a different character, rather than as Melissa. I mean, Melissa had "died in a fire, but it would have been a piece of cake to reveal it was someone else who died and Melissa was still alive.

I remember a brief interview with Ana-Alicia. She said on her final day of shooting, she had a scene with Jane, and Angela had the line "Melissa, you could have had it all!" and A-A thought to herself "not with these producers, I couldn't!" So I assume there was some sort of something - perhaps she asked for money they did't want to give? - but they shot themselves in the foot, because it began the long slow decline of the show.

R451 I bet it was a money thing and they thought they could replace a Melissa type character with the second rate (and likely much less expensive) Kristian Alfonso.

It wasn't money. Ana-Alicia was contracted for the entire season 8 already. According to an interview with her, not only did they have to pay her for the entire season. They also had to pay her extra for coming back because she was playing a different character. So killing off Melissa was really the dumbest thing FC ever did.

But why did they want to get rid of her? She was a worthy adversary for Jane, I'm surprised that Jane didn't fight for her.

Jane didn't fight for her pal Mel Ferrer. Why would she fight for Ana Alicia.

What's up with some of the fashion in Season 6? Vicky dresses like she just got off the bus from Houston or Albequerque--all cowboy hats and turquoise jewelry. Then there's Skylar/Kit--every time she's out in public she's completely covered in potato sack dresses, long sleeves, and gloves. I thought she must have some skin disease they're trying to cover up, but then there are scenes where Richard or that creepy guy break into her hotel suite and she's only in a negligée.

I'm trying to make my way through S5 but it's getting increasingly painful. Nothing is holding my interest, except for Angela/Peter, and the series is becoming increasingly tongue in cheek, which is not to my liking. Appelonia/Lance are pure FF material. Poor Jane gets more and more frail looking with each passing season. I can't stand David Selby and his "tic"y acting style, but all roads lead back to Richard, so if you're not a Selby fan, you're done for. I'm about to give up on it. Please tell me it gets better.

Season 6 is a bit better R457, but it still has its moments of dull. The cinematography is a bit better too, they have more location shots in the vineyards and around San Fran which is nice. Vicky is irritating AF though, they should've just let Jeff Wainwright kill her and moved on.

I kind of love that there is still a world where gay men can devote a year and 460 posts to Falcon Crest.

r459, what makes you think we're all gay men? I'll sure there are straight men who post in this thread. After all, it did have its female eye candy with people like Laura Johnson and Ana Alicia. I'm gay so I'm not an expert on what turns straight men on, but Laura Johnson always seemed like the type of woman that men would constantly busting a nut to. Kristian Alfonso seemed pretty hot too, I suppose.

Was that when Kristian Alfonso was in her post-DOL Hope was dead period?

R461, this was between her 1987 Hope departure and the 1990 'vat of acid' incident.

The show improves considerably between 1986 and 1988. I'm moving very slowly through S8 and it's just unpleasant all the way around. Also, I no longer care about Maggie. They made her boring again.

Lance feels really useless by this point.

The problem with FC is that it's written more like a daytime soap, with multiple storylines, many of which are played for shock value, and very little character development, compared to Dallas and Knots. Everything just seems like an obvious plot device, and it just all seems pointless. You can tell that great thought went into the development of Knots and Dallas storylines and characters. You just don't get that same vibe from FC.

R463, it's interesting that you say that because I was thinking that Falcon Crest reminds me more of Melrose Place than the other 80s soaps. Both shows peaked by their 3rd/4th season but what a ride.

Melissa's descent into madness seemed to happen between episodes in early 1987. It's like they decided she needed to be crazy and from then on she just acted nuts. Melissa was too shrewd for that, at least as she was written earlier on.

When Jill Bennett went nuts on Knots Landing, we saw it happen over the first half of that season and it escalated into the events of the season finale.

Anyone ever see that interview Mariska Hargitay gave about how sweet Jane Wyman was, but how she'd "subtly" push Mariska out of the way because she was blocking Jane's light? The shade lol.

Very little made any sense about Melissa after S3. All of a sudden in S4, out of nowhere, bam, she's playing Stepford Wife with Cole, and it's obvious the writers are trying to make them a rootable star-crossed couple. She's also pretty much isolated from the main characters. Then by S5, suddenly she's out of love with Cole and falling for a priest. It's really a testament to Ana Alicia's talent and charisma that she was able to make it all watchable and somewhat work.

I love Falcon Crest, the good, the bad, the ugly, and the super cheese. Melissa is such a complex, inconsistent, psychotic, bipolar character. I am about to start Season 6. Vicky #2 posts nice, thoughtful things on Facebook (she is pro LGBT and an animal rescuer). I saw Kim Novak at a film festival in LA in 2012 and all I cared about was that she had been on FC. I also met Marjoe Gortner a few years ago and he told amusing stories about his time as a child evangelist and his time in Hollywood.

I understand that Maggie and Richard get together in later seasons. In S5 now, and Sullivan and Selby have ZERO romantic chemistry in their scenes. Even their friendship seems really forced. She and Foxworth were so perfect together and such pros, they made even nasty, embarrassingly bad shit like Maggie's amnesia story work on some level. It's a shame he left, but I understand that he wasn't thrilled with the increasingly soapy tone of the show by S2 and that he only agreed to stay on so that he could direct.

Foxworth was more or less forced out by the end of his stay. He was always unhappy on the show apparently. But when a new producer came on board he acknowledged Foxworth's anger management issues and pretty much asked him to fix his behavior or leave. So he left.

I'm fine with Foxworth leaving. Maggie could have stood on her own and later get a Mack McKenzie. But the way, Chase was written out was so out of character. And then later, the Leslie Caron story was just not aligned with Chase's character at all.

Wyman was a nasty old cunt.

Terry seemed like a pointless character from day 1. All she ever did was slither through scenes acting snarky and in heat, and she barely had any interaction with her family. She barely registered in any Maggie storylines, and vice versa. Laura Johnson didn't seem like a half-bad actress, but they definitely could've utilized Terry to better effect.

Another scintillating question from SurvivingAngel

Why don’t people like strawberry ice cream as much as vanilla?

Why do more people live in Australia than New Zealand?

Season 6 is pretty good (for Falcon Crest). It moves along pretty fast with lots of action, plus the storyline where Melissa loses her marbles is well worth sticking around for. I just watched the epi where she's cutting up her clothing and speaking in tongues--that must've been pretty radical for 1986. Vicky is still an annoyance though, Chase has become a complete dick, and the preggers Maggie in constant peril/turmoil is getting old.

Season 7 is very good, exotic and dangerous. Almost film noir at points. Then Season 8 arrives and WTF?

Always liked the name Lance CUMson.

Chase was a sanctimonious dick from the very first episode. The viewer was supposed to root for him, but I always wanted Angela's scheming against him to work.

I never liked season 7. It brought stunt casting galore for stories that lasted only 5 or 6 episodes. The stories became outlandish and had nothing to do with wine or Falcon Crest. Characters became unlikeable beyond redemption. I don't think they didn't use 'toxic' for characters or relationships back then. But Vickie and Eric Stavros were exactly that, separately and together. I just wanted to have them shot. The original, a little bit homely, atmosphere of the Tuscany Valley was completely gone.

Just started watching season 5. What a nasty bitch that Robin Agretti is. She should have been kicked hard in the cuntbone by Melissa.

Angela's moments of humanity were sparse; When JR found out he truly was John Ross' father, he went up and hugged him unseen by everyone.

The best Emma and Julia ever got was a 'there, there'

R480, don't forget after the earthquake, when she put her sweater on some groaning extra and said 'there, there' followed by 'darling.' I thought Angela was having a stroke or something.

Robin was a hideous bitch and looked like dog meat next to the luscious Melissa.

Actress Barbara Howard appears in Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter and gets killed by Jason Voorhees. Spoiler alert!

I'm watching S5. How long does the painful Appelonia story last? It is truly awful.

It was mere stunt casting, and, yes they didn't even try to make it work. That whole rochade of Richard and Lance trading newspaper against radio station - just for that. Silly. At least it triggered Angela, so there is the silver lining.

But it gave us Angela calling her Babylonia.

[quote] How long does the painful Appelonia story last? It is truly awful.

You mean you didn't enjoy her music video 'Fame and Fortune' R483? That was beyond bad, but I sorta enjoyed it for the retro cheeze factor. Just wait until Season 6, you'll get to see some of new Vicky's best Flashdance moves!

With his very Jewish features, who thought that Ken Olin would make a believable Catholic priest? I mean, the man is very good looking, but he looks Jewish. I am a Jewish man, and I can always recognize one of my people.

They really declawed Angela by S5. She's no longer a threatening menace, and more of a crabby, cantankerous old busybody that everyone just ignores. I'm enjoying her romance with Cesar Romero's character, but her menacing presence from earlier seasons is gone. She barely interacts with Chase, Richard, or Melissa.

Were the writers toying with the idea of Maggie having an abortion after she was raped by Wainwright? That seems like something they might have wanted to do (especially since Season 6 was more edgy), but I could see uber-Catholic Jane Wyman stepping in and not allowing it. Like when she stepped in with the Miss Jones/Meredith being lesbians, so they made those characters sisters. Just my speculation though on this one.

No, I think they wanted her to have a child. They do that to make the parents appear younger, not old crusty empty-nesters, see KL's McKenzies. The way I remember it, they went as far as retconning the Wainwright abduction from the previous season, adding a rape that had not really happened.

It's so ironic. Maggie and Chase moved to the valley to escape NYC and have a better way of life. They, along with her sister, would both be dead 8 years later, and experienced so many near death and traumatic life experiences and health issues over that time. They should've stayed in that beautiful brownstone in Manhattan.

R490 I was just thinking of the anti-abortion angle from Jane because why go through all the hassle of having the kid but denying the paternity test when she could still abort? Then after Maggie has the kid she decides to have a paternity test but if it's Wainwright's kid I'm giving it up for adoption. WTF? To me it seemed like they were sending a pro-adoption/anti-abortion message. Then again, the show seemed to be "the perils of Maggie" from Season 5 until they drowned her in the pool. Maybe it was just another way to just keep the Maggie torment going.

In S5, and Robin Agretti wins my award for Most Annoying Character Ever, though I haven't reached the season when new Vickie appears, and I've heard she's awful. Could they at least have cast a half-way attractive actress, or someone who looks remotely like Ana Alicia?

Season 6, Dan Fixx, OMG HOT AF!

Was Dan Fixx supposed to be a Cole replacement? By season 5, it was clear that the writers were bored with Cole.

[quote] They should've stayed in that beautiful brownstone in Manhattan.

I get allergic smelling grapes, dahling!

Useless trivia: Cesar Romero famously played The Joker in the Batman series in the 60s; he appeared with Brett Cullen (Dan Fixx) on Falcon Crest; Brett Cullen played Bruce Wayne's father in Joker (2019).

Carry on.

Because of Susan Sullivan's pivots.

Brett Cullen took William R. Moses' spot in the opening credits once Cole sailed off, so yeah, Dan Fixx was a replacement for Cole.

Watching Dana Sparks as Vicki do her Flashdance moves is something else.

I'd rather watch Brett Cullen do the same Flashdance moves in a jock strap.

In an alternate Falcon Crest world, it would be fun to watch Lance Cumson, Dan Fixx and Eric Stavros in a 3 way.

Season 6: Wow, shirtless Tony Cumson is a hot daddy! He could have totally gotten it in the leather bars of San Francisco circa 1986. Mmmmmm.

WTF with how Lance and Eric just tolerate Melissa's insanity in Season 6? She flips out multiple times, destroys property, cuts the dress off that Dina bitch and tries to run her over, etc. and they just pull a Susan Collins. They're concerned but nothing is done about it.

She does get put in a psych ward for a brief spell. I recall Angela doing community service at the hospital and insisting on being the one to break Melissa's hunger strike.

The award for best ruined character goes to Lance. The character didn't evolve or at least not in an interesting way. He had so much promise as the heir apparent the first three seasons.

Lance was just an aimless loser. The Romeo and Juliet storyline where he falls for Richard's daughter was probably the biggest story of FC's whole run.

Samantha Ross really perks the 1988-89 season up near the end. Ana-Alicia was a hottie and she did a good job playing a new and distinct character while also playing 'Samantha as Melissa.' She had more range than I realized.

Jane looks frailer by the day in that Pearl Shay wig of hers. Richard has put Angela in a sanitarium and hilarity ensues as she is forced to spend time in the day room among the inmates.

They are really giving Maggie the works this season. She and Richard were more apart than they were together! All things considered, they weren't together very long given all the build-up.

At least S9 will be something different.

Also, I think they ran out of ideas for Emma and she just randomly left town with R.D. Young. Emma's just gone. Did Margaret Ladd leave?

the last episode couldn't even give us returns of Emma, Frank or Julia or Cole of Vicki I or Vicki II or even a surprise return by Chase who presumably drowned a few seasons earlier.

I would have thrown money at Susan Sullivan to come back; Maggie's body was switched; sorry, Lauren; Richard and Maggie get a happily ever after.

Was there ever an explanation as to why Emma is the way she is? Her kookiness and being slightly off mental health wise without ever going psychotic certainly makes her an interesting character for an 80s nighttime soap.

Back in those days, characters like her were just eccentric.

I just believed that life with Angela can do that with you. So Emma being eccentric made sense to me. It was her way - probably from childhood days - dealing with a controlling mother. In a way it worked. Her weirdness got her out of the rat race for Falcon Crest - which was somewhat liberating. I'm not sure the writers had a certain diagnosis in mind for her though.

r512, I like that explanation, and would take it further: she saw how Angela's domineering manner effected older sister Julia, who became such a tightly coiled live nerve, and so took a more la-di-da approach to life.

[quote]Was there ever an explanation as to why Emma is the way she is?

I am only about 5 episodes into the first season, and she is recurring and shows up for a few minutes every few episodes, so at this point you are under the impression she was a bit fragile to begin with but that witness of seeing her lover accidentally kill her uncle and then her Mother stage his death to look like an accident has sent her over the edge. I am guessing the boyfriend will show up near the end of the season and the truth how Chase's father died will be part of the build to the season 1 finale.

Not wanting to spoil, but at the end, all of Angela's children killed someone. I would find that quite unsettling if I was a mother.

Emma's back in the S8 finale and thankfully, they got rid of her old lady perm from earlier in the season. It made Emma and Angela look the same age!

Garth is handsome.

S9 has begun.

Wait, what happened to Pilar and Lance's daughter? Ben and Nick? Tony and that skanky waitress? The bug-eyed book dealer?

Let me guess, it was never explained.

What was wrong with Jane's health from season 4 and on? She looked increasingly frail with each successive season?

I think Jane was a diabetic.

r517, correct, it was never explained. I think Tony and the waitress were explained very briefly to the effect that he rescued her after all and they reconciled and also moved away.

I agree that the first half of season 9 was awful, mostly because it was extremely cynical and mean spirited. But I kinda command the producers for trying something new. They failed. Miserably. But they tried. Second half of season 9 got a bit better, but of course by then nobody was watching anymore.

Maggie Channing has left the building. Jesus, that was so much WORSE than I was expecting. WTF was the thought process?

And I'm horrified that Angela's about to disappear for six months of the season. All downhill from here.

Also, I hate Charley. Hate him.

At least Michael Sharpe is sexy. I'd ride that intense dick.

The thing with Maggie was so bizarre. The fact that they decided to kill her was a real slap in the face, but then to do it in such a gruesome fashion - it was like a giant “fuck you” to fans of the show.

R11, all new producers, I think; and yes, I couldn't agree more.

Is Apollonia Falcon Crest’s answer to Lisa Hartman? I’m surprised Lorimar didn’t shove a microphone and a guitar in front of that midget Lucy Ewing.

I miss the gothic, more serious tone of the first few seasons. I'm watching S5 now, and it's coming off more and more as a soap parody, and the continuity errors are glaring. Angela has morphed from a truly menacing villain into a cranky little old lady who barks one liners, sort of like Sophia Petrillo but with a sharper tongue. I thought the Jordan incest story was well executed and ahead of its time for1986, and Morgan Fairchild was surprisingly very effective. She really brought her A-game. It's also nice to see Abby Dalton's Julia pop up from time to time. Dwayne is really hot, but Daniel Greene's acting is painful.

I'm finding the final season to be brutal and depressing.

Couldn't they have just sent Angela to Greece as planned? My god, watching her get attacked was as bad as watching Maggie drown.

And did we have to see Maggie in her casket? Did we have to see Charley steal her cursed ring off her corpse? FUCKING A.

I really like Walker and Lauren's house of wood. It's the same house used in Friday the 13 The Final Chapter.

[quote]I'm finding the final season to be brutal and depressing.

Don't worry, the Bacchus Festival in the final season is hilarious.

FC started streaming on IMDB on 3/1/2022. You people now watching season 8 or 9, are you saying you've watched 7 or 8 entire seasons in past 5 weeks? OMFG! Are you a recluse, unemployed, and/or undateable/unfuckable?

Personally, I'd love to know your rankings of the seasons.

Pay attention, r529. It’s been discussed several times that FC is available in two or three different places on the net.

R530 1. S5 / 2. S6 / 3. S7 /4. S4 / 5. S3 / 6. S2 / 7. S1 / 8. S9 / 9. S8

R531, where else is FC "on the net"? Bull. It's only on IMDB.

"Available" may not just include official ways of streaming, r533.

I'm currently in S6 on imdbtv. My favorite is S1. It's part Green Acres, part Family, and part Dallas, and the schizophrenic nature really worked. S2 is the most compelling. S3 was good and soapy, as was S5, save for Appelonia and the intro of '80's synth music, I suppose to better compete with Miami Vice for the younger demo. S4 was the most disappointing.

'80s synth music is overwhelming in season 6. OMFG. Reminds me of (bad) music from shows like Knight Rider, MacGyver, Tour of Duty, and Airwolf.

From best to not so:

1- Season 3 (it had the goods and it had Terry Girl) 2- Season 2 (for the finale alone) 3- Season 1 (great atmosphere) 4- Season 6 (the show seemed to get a second wind of sorts) 5- Season 7 (I enjoyed the guest stars but it was all over the place) 6- Season 5 (meh but better than S4) 7- Season 4 (flat, especially after that S3 finale) 8- Season 9 (at least it's something different and it's a little more addictive) 9- Season 8 (slow and slower, too many changes)

I just rewatched Season 8, episodes 1-3 last night. ((Spoiler Alert)) They really did a good job with the fire. Killing her off was a big mistake.

Merry Christmas, Charley. I found Ian/actor David Hunt kind of attractive but was sick and tired of that Charley character.

Chris Agretti was such a useless character! Here today, gone tomorrow!

I enjoy the hell out of Genele Erickson.

Speaking of Chris Agretti: That Agretti family was always a mystery to me. I considered them a Hispanic family, you know, based on the two actors who played Carlo and Melissa. But then every Agretti later seemed to be as Caucasian as can be. And Carlo must have had tons of siblings, even though at first we were made believe that Melissa and Carlo were the last ones: Phil, Frank and wherever Chris came from and who knows who is still out there.

Agretti is an Italian name. Neither Carlo nor Melissa is too “dark” to be Italian.

R539 "I enjoy the hell out of Genele Erickson."

That's were the new Season 9 showrunners (who would later create "24") made their own wrong decisions following the Season 8 failure. Andrea Thompson's Genele was the one new character everyone seemed to like and she worked best with Rod Taylor's Frank Agretti. Genele was a reboot of Laura Johnson's Terry. And Terry was the most fun to watch when she betrayed boring Cliff Robertson's Michael, argued with Maggie or insulted Chase. Terry lost her spike when she had to deal with her ex Joel or was paired with Richard Channing. The same I thought happened for Genele when Frank Agretti was written out. With Michael Sharpe at her side Genele became soft. The scenes with Genele, Sharpe and his son (or Richard's bio-son) were cringe worthy.

But I have to admit even though I place Season 9 in a bad place at R532 that season is worth a re-watch just for all Genele scenes. I just wish they've kept Frank longer. Of all the big name stars Rod Taylor and Cesar Romero were the ones who fitted most to Tuscany Valley and made sense (supporting Melissa/ Angela).

R536 The composer for Season 6 and 7 was Mark Snow who would later do THE X-FILES. I liked his scores for FALCON CREST especially the themes for Richard/Maggie and S7 guest Leslie Caron's Nicole. At that time the music didn't feel like the shows you mention but more like distinguishing from the overly dramatic scores that were still used on DALLAS and DYNASTY - with S6 FC became more "light" than the dark Seasons 1-3 (many call them "gothic"). I was very disappointed when Season 8 returned to what didn't work in Season 1 (instead of the Nunoz the Ortegas, Pilar's family consisting of terrible cliches instead of real characters).

A year ago I went to Puerto Vallarta for vacation, was strolling through the Zona Romantica and saw a real estate listing that caught my attention. Turned out, the agent really was Andrea Thompson of old FC and CNN fame. And I thought, good for her. You could certainly do worse than being a real estate agent in one of the finest cities of Mexico.

Danny is handsome! Love his swagger, if not the ponytail. I'd cut it off while he slept.

R543, she looks great. I loved her laugh as Genele!

So are we to assume Charley is wounded and at large in Tuscany?

I feel bad for Walker. I just do. He seemed a gentle, kind man and he's become so twisted. Very sad.

Wendy Phillips is very good, better than I was expecting.

R540 I think they were supposed to be Italian but even if they were Hispanic, there are very white/Caucasian Hispanics. Hispanic is not a race. A Hispanic can be white, black, native, etc... Or some combination.

r545, I am in the minority but I thought Lauren and Richard were a much better couple than Maggie and Richard. Lauren seemed to be a bit more grounded and always made sure that she wouldn't put up with anybody's shenanigans, not from her husband, brother or fiancé. She seemed to be softer than Maggie and could have been the show's eternal victim, like Val Ewing. But she wasn't. I liked her.

I like the revamped version of the FC theme used in the season 9 credits.

I remember the 1989-90 season of Knots also being a slog. It got better towards the end, but fall and winter 1989 were awful.

R549 I think it was residual fall out from the previous season's writers strike.

That's an excellent point, R550.

I'll say this: Lauren seems to really like being with the kids. Maggie had a nanny and STILL she seemed perpetually harried by them after awhile and ready to drink at the drop of a dime. The boys were at Falcon Crest, she was at the spa. She was so put-upon. Poor Maggie.

I was very sad to watch Margaret Ladd's last scene as sweet Emma. Once she's gone, it starts to feel really weird. Also, Pilar is somehow involved with a Yugoslavian chess master. Something.

There are very few shows that I can get my 80simething year old parents to sit and watch with me and pay attention. For some reason FC is doing the trick. It's my third time and their first.

There are very few shows that I can get my 80simething year old parents to sit and watch with me and pay attention. For some reason FC is doing the trick. It's my third time and their first.

There are very few shows that my 80something year old-self can get the trick I pay to sit and watch with me. For some reason FC is doing it, between the first and third fuck.

Is it wrong of me to want to see a Tony Cumson/Lance Cumson daddy/son hate fuck?

Getting near end of Season 6. Must admit the writers have done a pretty good job getting all the storylines to converge for the last couple of episodes. They may not be very good with maintaining much logic when it comes to character motiviation or giving much depth to some of the characters, but it's soapy trashy plotting working well. And John Saxon is really quite good doing this sort of material.

Season 6: Who switched Chase's blood sample at the hospital? I missed the reveal.

I'm in S6. I miss ugly freckled ginger Vickie. She had spunk. This new one is prettier, but seems like a totally different character. I miss Morgan Fairchild. btw, how did her agent manage to get her the Cliff Robertson end-of-episode credit in S5. At that point, she was a campy actress with two failed prime time soaps behind her. Seems unwarranted. Cesar Romero would've been more justified to get that.

[quote] Season 6: Who switched Chase's blood sample at the hospital?

Melissa did it. It was her revenge for Chase and Maggie after they helped Cole to take Joseph from her and taking him to Australia.

Why does Kim Novak talk like that? Like she was trying into to have a conversation immediately after crossing the finish line of a marathon?

Watching season 6-was Ana Alicia pregnant during this season ? Is that why Melissa is wearing Blanche Deveraux hand me downs?

Season 6 was bad for Ana. Bad clothes, over the top acting, remarried Lance and then cracked up. Dull!

I like Melissa as the Slumming Socialite with her cabaret act.

I am very close to the bitter end: Pilar and Lance are in disguise as homeless people to track down Johnny Sacco. No Emma, no Chao-Li.

Angela, please wake up.

Was Pilar meant to replace Melissa? AA is a much more expressive, interesting actress than listless KA could ever hope to be. Were Lance and Pilar a popular couple?

I'm on Season 7 and am Team Liz. She was sexy, fun, and smart. Who cares if she made up the whole ninja situation? Besides, Maggie was a bore by now, always fretting over whether or not to marry Richard and worrying about Vicki.

No, they were not. Everything related to the Ortega family was regarded responsible for the death of FC.

In a way I appreciated the introduction of a homely family because it could have grounded the show a bit again, just like the Gioberti's coming from NYC in season 1. The two seasons before became very over-the-top and had outlandish plots. So focusing on Tuscany Valley was a nice change back to the roots.

Unfortunately, the execution was not good at all. Nobody cared for the rich vs. poor issue. The Ortegas were played by actors with no charisma. I think acting chops are not as necessary when you have charisma on screen. But Pilar and her family didn't have any of that. And on top of this, there were issues that all aging shows have: No new ideas for legacy characters (Maggie should have left a year earlier), fan favorite Melissa gone, and the overall look of the show suffered when filming in Napa and Sonoma Valley was discontinued.

[quote]Was Pilar meant to replace Melissa?

Ana Alicia says as much in one of those interviews. She said that when Phil Parslow took over producing, he brought Alfonso in as a replacement because he preferred her.

Who in their right mind would prefer KA or AA? Even in S4 and S5 when Melissa was poorly written as Cole's stepford wife and then fucking Ken Olin, which was quickly aborted, she was able to pull it off and overcome the bad writing. KA is just about awful in everything I've ever seen her in.

I finished it today and good lord bless Jane but she looked like walking death and damn near spectral by the end.

I'll miss Genele and I did find Michael Sharpe a compelling villain.

Now I want to rewatch the first few seasons and pay more attention.

R570 Well she chose to comeback for the final three episodes against her doctors' wishes, so she wasn't in the best health. She did look better, though, when she guest starred as Dr. Quinn's mother in 1993. Then she retired and lived until 2007.

R42 William R Morris is a sensitive homo, right?

R572 I guess you meant William R Moses, right? He has been married twice and has two children, not that, that means anything.

Billy Moses seemed to age pretty rapidly from twinky in S1 to middle-aged dad by S5. By that time, he looked more like Susan Sullivan's younger brother than her son. He was the very definition of cute, boy next door type. Definitely would've chosen him over Lance. Lorenzo Lamas looked great in S1, but he got homelier and homelier with each passing season. It might've been his haircuts or the ridiculous clothes they had him wearing, probably to compete with the Miami Vice aesthetic.

I like the Vertigo reference to one of the aliases Kit uses: Madeline McKittrick (the last name coming from the hotel where Madeline makes a ghostly disappearance from when Scottie is tailing Madeline around SF).

Oh no, Leslie Caron in season 7 has a shitty role. But Ed Marinaro is hot and frequently shirtless. Mmmmm.

Were they having cash flow problems in Season 7? Seems like characters would disappear for several episodes in a rotation, like Emma in Hollywood, Eric and Vicki in Monte Carlo, Dan Fixx off looking for his father. Maybe it was to pay for all of those guest stars.

The ratings were collapsing by S7. It was no longer even in the top 40 shows, so maybe budget was an issue.

Richard's bachelor party with Lance singing Knock on Wood was cringeworthy, it was like Hasselhoff level bad. I was embarrassed for everyone involved.

Poor Garth, I think he has an unrequited crush on Richard.

Oh no, Vickie #2 and Eric Stavros are horrible alone *and* together! By the way, "Vickie" is the spelling for that character in IMDB.com (WTF? I know!). Vickie #2 has been slapped twice thus far, in season 6 by her mother (when Vickie #2 is being totally rude about her mother's rape and subsequent pregnancy) and in season 7 by Eric (he wants Vickie #2's inheritance from Chase and she calls him a blood sucker, LOL!). Will poor Vickie #2 be slapped again?

I don't give a fuck what imdb says it is Vicki, to me. Does anyone have the official OLTL hard cover anniversary book they put out back in the 90s. I have it but not handy. I want to know how they spell it.

R581 needs to be slapped like Vickie #2.

R581, why would a hardcover OLTL book be talking about a Falcon Crest character? Have you gotten your Vicky/Vicki/Vickies mixed up?

What exactly is wrong with Emma? Did they ever say?

Emma was the female Stuart Chandler.

In the confrontation scene in the cemetery with Jacqueline, Angela acknowledges Emma is "special. She has her own ways."

Why did Angela pronounce her name as "Jack-lyn" rather than "Jzaqueleen" like everyone else did? That always irked me. It was though Jane kept misprouncing it and nobody in continuity thought to go back and reshoot her pronouncing it correctly.

R583 etc... I'm sorry I had this thread and a OLTL thread and religious thread all open at the same time and I got confused on the soap ones. I'm sorry, but in my defense, I'm high as fuck and trying juggle multiple active threads, I was bound to get confused at some point.

Emma’s snatch stunk!

Dwayne was gay. No hot AF str8 guy would want oldish Emma. Every gay guy wants/wanted to live at Falcon Crest. EVERY.

Hey, don't disrespect Emma. I love that crazy kid.

Maybe Angela is putting Jacqueline in her place by calling her "Jack-Lyn". Or Jane Wyman is putting Lana Turner in her place by using a far less grand pronunciation of Lana's character's name?

Here's the confrontation scene R586.

[quote]Not wanting to spoil, but at the end, all of Angela's children killed someone. I would find that quite unsettling if I was a mother.

Oh, every parent hopes for at least one who's a chip off the old block. A clean sweep... I'd like to know her secret!

[quote]I have a soft spot for the Constance McCashin pivot during her final season Knots. Her body and facial language telegraph "FUCK YOU!”

Are you sure it wasn't get the fuck away from the craft table?

[quote] Not wanting to spoil, but at the end, all of Angela's children killed someone. I would find that quite unsettling if I was a mother.

It is something Maggie would get her panties in a bunch about, but I doubt it phased Angela.

Angela was a typical right-wing conservative. She didn't care about their relatives killing someone or committing other crimes. She cared about them being stupid enough to get caught, or those crimes fucking up one of her own schemes.

Yeah, I loved Emma, she was one of my favorite characters on the show, alongside Melissa and Pamela Lynch.

I loved Sarah Douglas as Pamela Lynch. She and Selby worked so well together, better than any of his subsequent romances. Was she let go, or did she quit? Without giving away spoilers, the writers really assassinated her character at the end.

Sarah Douglas (Pamela Lynch) discusses her time on Falcon Crest.