Please tell me Madeline Kahn was nice

[quote]I know she left Broadway's On the 20th Century early, but also that she worked repeatedly with Mel Brooks

Have you just awoken from a coma you entered in 1978, OP?

If so, congratulations?

Good morning and fuck, you r1. It was a question. I saw a clip of her, realized how much I like her and that I don't know much about her or her rep. And you make an HIV joke. Hilarious.

In various interviews over the years I never heard anyone say anything bad about her, but I know a long time ago there was a thread on Broadway World about 20th Century and they quoted Hal Prince as saying she was impossible to work with and disliked by all. That's the only time I ever heard that about her, though.

OP, there’s a biography of Kahn called Being the Music, a Life. The authors name is Madison. Decent read. She had some neurosis & demons. Who doesn’t, right? Pick up the book. You’ll know all you want to.

There’s an old story about a preliminary meeting for what I think was a live theatre production. Can’t remember what it was or who asked Madeline about whom - sorry, great story so far, right?

But when Madeline was asked about a certain female performer, she responded rather negatively.

When informed that this person was actually to be her co-star in the production, Madeline’s response without missing a beat was, “Well then, I suppose I should say I was kidding..”

That always cracked me up.

Anyone remember that story who can fill in the blanks?

Not to worry r5, it's a great story even with the blanks.

I LOVED her, mostly because my mom loved her so much. She always had such a great on-screen presence. If you can't enjoy her in Clue, then you have no hope.

I can hear her saying that, R5.

Was it for Dear World, which she sang in a 1998 workshop with Chita Rivera and Debra Monk, the year before she died?

We need to quiz Mel Brooks and Teri Gaar.

I'd expect only love from Mel, but Teri Gaar is known for accurate snapshots of other actors.

I think I'm the only one who thinks Madeline looks really stiff and uncomfortable in Clue. I love her in everything else, but for me in Clue I cannot shake the feeling that she was having a miserable time and didn't even want to be there.

I thought that Madeleine was quite pretty too. But she didn’t play on her looks. Same with Julie Hagerty, who actually did modeling before breaking into films. It’s hard to be beautiful and funny. Ask Carole Lombard.

She was a resident on Fire Island and was well liked.

Well somebody had recently posted the John Collum interview with his wife where they talked about her in 20th Century. They thought she was wonderful person but was having a difficult time with the role and it resulted in her leaving the show. I never read Prince said nobody like her. She though was not able to do that role 8 times a week. I still want to know why she left Two by Two early. Was Kaye jealous of her and wanted her out? Everybody hated working with Kaye.

[quote]She was a resident on Fire Island and was well liked.

Fag!

Let's just say "the Wrath of Khan" was a direct reference to her.

I've got to watch more of her stuff.

I've seen only Doc/Frankenstein/Saddles/History.

I always enjoy her scenes.

PAPER MOON, R16!!

Madeline Kahn was not "A" Eunice Burns, she was "THE" Eunice Burns!

In the summer of 1991 I worked at a deli on the upper east side of Manhattan and Madeline Kahn came in and looked around the shop she was holding her cat. She barely said a word and left.

10 min later she called and asked if I coukd deliver half a pound of lox for her cat. I personally delivered it to her place on Park Avenue. I left it with the doorman who gave me her check as payment.

She didn't tip me.

That's all I got.

Love her.

She gave Lucy a lot of grief on the set of Mame.

Also at this same deli one day I was behind the counter and some woman was standing outside just staring into the window looking at what I was doing. I walked up to the window and motioned for her to come in---it was Stockard Channing. She didn't acknowledge me and left.

Her delivery and voice was unique - that's hard to do. Nobody else is like Madeline Kahn. That's a true talent.

Stockyard was probably admiring how thinly you were able to slice the turkey breast and was pondering the possibility of adhering it to her face.

yes r17 great performance.

[quote] was not able to do that role 8 times a week.

I mean, who does 8 shows a week, right?

[quote]She gave Lucy a lot of grief on the set of Mame.

Maybe you were trying to be funny, but that's an inaccurate statement.

I haven't heard much or anything about how "nice" Kahn was, but almost everyone seems to agree that her severe neuroses made her very difficult to work with. ON THE TWENTIETH CENTURY was the most obvious example, but also, I have read and heard that the 1989 Broadway revival of BORN YESTERDAY that she did with Ed Asner was not a happy experience for those involved, and the show only ran for 153 performances.

[quote]I think I'm the only one who thinks Madeline looks really stiff and uncomfortable in Clue. I love her in everything else, but for me in Clue I cannot shake the feeling that she was having a miserable time and didn't even want to be there.

That was her character. Moron.

I'd wonder about the Sisters Rosensweig but she was with Jane Alexander and Frannie McDormand there, so she was hardly the biggest cunt in the room.

For some reason, Madeline kept getting cast to reprise roles established by another performer—Gooch in Mame, Lily in OTTC (Carole Lombard was in the movie), Born Yesterday (Judy Holliday owned that part)—with problematic results.

She seemed happier and most successful when she was creating a new character, as in Paper Moon, Sisters Rosensweig and Judy Berlin.

FWIW, she said she was happiest and most comfortable on the set of Cosby. When she died, they finished up the season and folded the show.

In our circles, in our circles, in our circles!

[quote]Please tell me Madeline Kahn was nice

Ok, Madeline Kahn was nice. She was. She was also very, very shy and had insecurities etc. Madeline was a legit comic genius. I worked for her agent when she was doing "Born Yesterday" The production started at The Cleveland Playhouse where it ran as a sort of out of town tryout. I remember there were lots of discussions about how the abuse would be portrayed. At one point, Madeline (As Billie) entered with bruises visible, and the audience gasped and hardly laughed after that, which freaked Madeline out. The whole production was plagued with problems. One of those things that looked like a hit on paper but not in practice. During the run, in Cleveland, we flew down there several times to support her. Madeline asked me to accompany her to the opening of another production, Bill Hoffman's AS IS, playing at the Cleveland Playhouse. The opening was on a day off, Monday Night , and she went because the Born Yesterday Director, had also directed this production. This was a stunning production of AS IS and the opening night audience was in tears at the end. Being this was the late 80s, there were men in the audience who were clearly had HIV. I remember clearly Madeline hugging a man who approached her who was clearly sick. She was very kind. She went on AM Cleveland a few days later and praised AS IS rather than talk about Born Yesterday. I asked her about it and she said "That production deserves an audience" She was very unique and I loved her.

R31's post made me weep.

That is a beautiful memory, R31. Thanks for sharing.

thank you r31 that's the sort of thing I was hoping to read when I posted. And fuck you again r1 just for the hell of it.

Peter Bogdanovitch said Kahn went to see What's Up Doc when it opened at Radio City which in the 70s still played movies along with a stage show including the Rockettes. The audience was laughing hysterically when she was on screen. She was so upset by this she told him it put her in therapy for a year.

Yes I'd say she had issues.

R35, if that's true, how very sad. Presumably, Kahn realized WHAT'S UP, DOC? was a comedy and therefore her portrayal was intentionally comedic, yet she was so upset by audience laughter of her performance that "it put her in therapy for a year." Neurosis to the point of mental illness is a truly tragic thing.

She was hysterical in What's Up Doc - she'd have to be in therapy if people DID NOT laugh at her character.

Bob! OH BOB!!

[quote] She gave Lucy a lot of grief on the set of Mame.

Totally not true. Madeline never got past the table read. Lucy wanted to hear a finished performance at the read (from everyone), and Madeline responded that she hadn’t developed her character yet, that it would come when they started filming. That was it for Lucy. She demanded Madeline be fired, and requested that they “get that dame who did it here in LA. She was hilarious!” She meant Jane Connell, who originated the part and did the LA run with Angela. And that’s who they got.

I went to theater school with Madeline's niece back in 1987. One time when I was rehearsing a scene with this niece, her aunt Madeline called to talk to her, and I also got to talk to her on the phone. She was very sweet to me and had that distinctive 'ready for silliness' voice that I loved. I told her I loved her, and got off the phone as politely as possible, so as not to fangirl her too much.

Madeline got along terrible with Danny Kaye in the production of TWO BY TWO and left it because of him. But he was famously an even bigger asshole on that production than even normally. The cast and crew loathed him, as did the creative team.

The famous story Hal Prince related about Kahn was that they had cast her as Lily Garland because at the time she was a much loved movie star, but that she was never able to crank up the performance to the comedic level he wanted--she kept holding back. Finally on opening night she gave the performance he had always wanted, and the audience went nuts--she was absolutely hilarious and got great reviews. Prince went backstage to tell her how happy he was she had made the breakthrough, and she stared at him and said, "You don't expect me to do that every night at that level, do you? Because I simply can't. That was for the critics." That was when he knew they were in trouble. She was replaced a month into the run by the lovely and talented Judy Kaye, who was wonderful in the part.

I have also once heard she was on coke during her short run on "On the Twentieth Century," but I've never heard corroboration for that.

Kahn was a born stage comedienne, but she was so hampered by insecurities she could only really do well in front of a camera. but there was so one else as funny as she was (Catherine O'Hara and Judy Holliday may be the only comic actresses I know of who ever came close). All you have to do is here her hilarious one-of-a-kind delivery of both "Veronique" and "Babette" on the OBC of "On the Twentieth Century" (and then hear how for the revival recording Kristin Chenoweth drains both songs of humor) to realize how unique Kahn's talent was.

[quote] She was replaced a month into the run

I always knew she left, but was she fired, or was it mutual?

Cocaine addction caused her to miss a lot of performances of OTTC.

The cast of clue discusses working with Madeline.

She was a cunt.

With the Queen of Nice.

Kahn's "Twentieth Century" co-star talks about her after the 29 minute mark below. She refutes the Kahn coke rumors, while alluding to the coke use of another of the principals (my money is on Kline).

Madeline's co-star from "Mr President" is also positive about Kahn. She does say that Madeline wasn't maternal but that she was kind and supportive.

18:40

Corman does a fun Kahn impression after 22:10.

There was bio a few years ago.

The author says he investigated the cocaine rumors pretty thoroughly and couldn't find confirmation of them.

The Opening night comment at On the 20th Century was also said to be something Prince concocted over the years. He said Kahn was having a relationship with someone who worked on 20th Century. (a producer maybe, I forget.)

It was very turbulent and she was battling depression from that and it caused her performances to be highly irratic.

Kevin Kline has nothing but good things to say about her.

John Cullum and his wife though have a youtube show where they discuss it. The wife says Madeline wasn't behaving well but Cullum quickly comes to her defense saying something like you have to remember the pressure that they were putting her under.

After performing in "On The 20th Century" at the Colonial Theatre in Boston which I attended in late 1977, I met stars of the show, Madeline Kahn and John Callum, walking back to the Ritz Hotel. I stopped and told them I had just seen the play. They were both absolutely delightful. We chatted for a few minutes. They signed my Playbill, and I still have it to this day. It was a thrill meeting Madeline. She was so sweet and appreciative.

The show opened at the St. James Theatre on February 19, 1978 and ran for 449 performances winning five Tony Awards. John Callum won the Tony Award for Best Actor in a Musical. Madeline Kahn was nominated for a Tony for Best Actress in a Musical.

A thing like Kahn being fired would never happen today. She was still giving a decent performance and not missing many shows.

She was a big movie star and a huge draw. The box office never recovered from her loss and the show despite all its hype only ran a year. Had Kahn stayed they could have star casted the replacements like the did for the tour.

Rock Hudson could have taken over on Broadway and he'd have picked up the box office slack Kahn left behind.

They'd never fire someone with that marque value today and especially never put an understudy in. Prince must have really hated her. I even tried to convince the Tony committee to allow Judy Kaye to be nominated like Larry Kert was with Company.

After seeing it once with Judy Kaye and loving her and the rest of the cast I would second act it often just to see the train chase which is the funniest spectacle I have ever seen on stage. I'm sorry that the cast lost energy towards the end of the run as a poster said above. I of course wish I had rushed to see Kahn but I had no idea what was happening.

I've always heard she made the made the "You don't expect me to do that every night, do you?" comment to Ruth Mitchel, Prince's assistant.

^ Mitchell. But, yes, Prince dined out on that story for years.

R14 they don’t like being called fags. They prefer homo.

It must have been an incredibly intimidating role for Kahn. Kristen Chenowith has spoken about how difficult it was to sing and she has a master's degree in vocal performance.

Kahn must have been terrified and as I said above that bio says her love life was really getting her down and had her in a bad way during the run.

I was/am a fan and saw her in OTTC numerous times as well as In Sisters R and Born Yesterday.

In 1997 I went to the movies at a theater on the upper west side. In walks Madeline Kahn and she sits right next to me. Don’t remember how I worded it but I told her I was a fan. She was lovely and we chatted while my date and her companion went to get snacks. A few minutes into the conversation a very tall man sits right in front of her. She was pissed but in a “I knew this would happen way”. I offered to switch seats with her but she declined saying then I wouldn’t be able to see. She put her head on my shoulder and said she’d watch the movie like that. I was loving it and her. I then tapped the tall guy on the shoulder and asked if he wouldn’t mind switching with Madeline as she could no longer see. He was happy to although I didn’t want her to no longer sit next to me. She was very thankful and hugged me after the movie was over. Loved her then and love her still. And yes, OP, she was nice.

lovely r58

[quote] it caused her performances to be highly irratic.

Oh, my

A family member who made crappy independent movies was a personal friend of her. She was a doll, sweet and hilarious according to him.

[quote]After performing in "On The 20th Century" at the Colonial Theatre in Boston which I attended in late 1977, I met stars of the show, Madeline Kahn and John Callum, walking back to the Ritz Hotel.

You were performing in the show and also attended it as an audience member on the same night? Neat trick!

Also, you spelled Cullum wrong, twice.

[quote] She was very unique and I loved her.

No need to modify the word 'unique.' Something is either unique or it's not. Like being pregnant—one is either pregnant or not pregnant.

Kristen Chenowith has a Master's in vocal performance? LOL.....that's funnier than anything Madeline Kahn ever did.....

She did unusual things with her voice as both an actress and as a singer. In “What’s Up, Doc”, she did this amazing “chirping” sound when her character suspects that her fiancé is with another female in the adjacent room. When she hears the female’s voice a second time, she lowers her register and pronounces “I’m COMING in!”. My siblings and I were really small kids watching that film at a drive, and we loved that character.

A few decades later, she covered Clarence “Frogman” Henry’s “Ain’t Got No Home” during her opening monologue on Saturday Night Live. Her version was high camp, but you could sense her perfectionism in performing it. It was pretty amazing.

That’s meant to spell “Drive-In” above.

[quote]Peter Bogdanovitch said Kahn went to see What's Up Doc when it opened at Radio City which in the 70s still played movies along with a stage show including the Rockettes. Th

She was bothered by how she looked. She thought the wig made her look awful.

R62 Oh, just DIE you tedious, old cow.

After you, R68 :-)

Madeline and Gilda Radner did a bit on SNL back in the day, that could never happen now. The two were just standing on the stage which was bare and each did an impression. Gilda did hers of a baby tasting ice cream for the first time and Madeline did a parrot learning its first word. It was sweet AND hilarious because it was all in their faces and vocal delivery. Two geniuses!

One of SNL's finest musical moments...

Glorious!

This was on a couple nights ago...

I think Peter should have cast Madeline in Daisy Miller instead of Cybill, who just didn't seem to understand the role.

R74 Yes, but Madeline wouldn't give Peter blow jobs.

I'm not so sure Bogdanovich understood Daisy Miller any more than Cybill did.

Madeline wasn't a leading lady, though.

Gosh, OP, you poor thing.

Try this.

A master class...

She didn't want to say "tits." She only did one take with that word.

Madeline's Dolly...

Does anyone know whether she ever performed Cunegonde anywhere, even in concert?

For Lenny's 50th in 1968, she did. R82

Yes, at a Bernstein celebration, late 1960s.

R81 Thank you that is delightful.

R7 R10 R44 CLUE was a HORRIBLE movie, and a waste of a lot of talented actors.

It basically was a bad rip-off of a far superior film, Neil Simon's "murder by death" which was hilarious.

Glitter and Be Madeline

Intimate Portrait Madeline Kahn 1

Thanks r83, r84 and r87!

Anybody else go to that magical night of Anyone Can Whistle at Carnegie Hall?

R65 "What's Up, Doc" premiered in 1973 and Madeline hosted SNL in 1976, so it was only three years separating the two events rather than a few decades.

[quote] Does anyone know whether she ever performed Cunegonde anywhere, even in concert?

I didn't know she was a lesbian!

[quote] "What's Up, Doc" premiered in 1973

1972, dear.

Whenever Easter was in '72.

"What's Up, Doc?" premiered on March 9, 1972 and went into general release in the U.S. on March 10, 1972.

Madeline, Lily and Dixie in Below the Belt at Upstairs at the Downstairs, 1966.

Madeline Kahn's performance in What's Up Doc is one of the greatest comic supporting performances of all time.

She hated the way she looked because the wig made her look awful? It was supposed to. That was the point!! How could she possibly not be in on the joke?

Because Madeline didn't audition for the role. She only had a meeting with Bogdanovich. She felt that Eunice was how people saw her.

She had beautiful bone strucksha

Too much chin, though.

r100, That's....oh never mind. I got it, r99.

A friend was in the Theater Department at Hofstra when Madeline was there. He told me that in their production of GUYS AND DOLLS, Madeline made the best Miss Adelaide that he's ever seen. And I suspect he's exactly right about that.

Eek.

[Quote] In The New Yorker, Pauline Kael wrote:

[Quote] Madeline Kahn has an extra dimension of sexiness; it’s almost like what Mae West had — she’s flirtatious in a self-knowing way. And everything that’s wrong about her is sexy. You look at her and think, What a beautiful translucent skin on such a big jaw; what a statuesque hourglass figure, especially where the sand has slipped. She’s so self-knowingly lascivious that she convinces you she really digs the monster. Madeline Kahn is funny and enticing because she’s soaked in passion; when you look at her, you see a water bed at just the right temperature. - December 30, 1974

THE best Madeline Kahn scene, and one of my most favorite in movies. Genius!

Her "Weill" song from New Faces...

Streisand may have made Madeline a little insecure on What's Up Doc?

Bogdonovitch loves to tell the story how at the first table read every thing Madeline said would get huge laughs. Even just the way she said "Howard." Streisand got insecure and said "I feel like an extra in my own movie!" since Madeline was stealing the film.

I heard her explain that she was driven to therapy because of it because she started to wonder am I really this harridan who would drive men away.

In the video at r48, Austin Pendleton recounts Bab's giving Kahn some "less is more" advice before Kahn did her next take.

from Anyone Can Whistle...

None of you have watched the linked panels, clearly. The author talks about how Madeline's father walked out on the family when Madeline had chicken pox. Her young self thought her father left because she'd become "ugly" (the chicken pox). Madeline was also chubby in high school. She tended to eat her feelings. It can't all be pinned on What's Up Doc or Bogdanovich.

[quote]In “What’s Up, Doc”, she did this amazing “chirping” sound when her character suspects that her fiancé is with another female in the adjacent room. When she hears the female’s voice a second time, she lowers her register and pronounces “I’m COMING in!”.

In addition to what r106 wrote, Madeline had really prepared this character and her voice. At the table read, when she delivered "I'm COMING in", it was a completely unexpected laugh to the rest of cast based upon their rsad of the script - and that unexpected laugh is what sent Babs to the bathroom to hide where she made her comment to a concerned Peter who came looking for her .

[quote]Anybody else go to that magical night of Anyone Can Whistle at Carnegie Hall?

Far from magical, it was poorly directed and kind of sloppy, and Madeline's performance was unfocused. And Bernadette flubbed the lyrics of "There Won't Be Trumpets."

I don't understand how Madeline was not nominated for What's Up, Doc. It really is one of the best comedic performances of all time. the film was a huge hit, and the lineup that year ranged from underwhelming (winner Eileen Heckart for Butterflies are Free) to absolute garbage (Geraldine Page for doing nothing and doing it poorly in the otherwise justly forgotten Pete n' Tillie).

In all honesty, Madeline was better than all five nominees put together. I often wonder if the reason she was nominated the next two years in a row (for way less deserving performances) was because they were trying to make it up to her for WAD. I would have nominated her in 1974 for Young Frankenstein over Blazing Saddles, too.

Madeline had lifelong insecurity about her looks, unfortunately. No matter what anyone else thought, she was convinced she was hideously ugly. She needed really good therapy, maybe even medication.

She had the face of a soprano. That's all that was going on there.

don't be an unfunny ass r78 (and 'don't you love farts' wasn't funny either.)

Her last movie role was in Eric Mendelsohn's *Judy Berlin*. She was luminous. Wish she were still with us.

[quote]I don't understand how Madeline was not nominated for What's Up, Doc. It really is one of the best comedic performances of all time. the film was a huge hit, and the lineup that year ranged from underwhelming (winner Eileen Heckart for Butterflies are Free) to absolute garbage (Geraldine Page for doing nothing and doing it poorly in the otherwise justly forgotten Pete n' Tillie).

Eileen Heckart gives a beautiful performance in that movie, recreating her Broadway role, plus she was an honored stage and screen veteran, so please don't be so disrespectful. Oh, too late.....

Indeed, R117. There is no need to ever knock Eileen Heckart. She was an outstanding actress with an impressive career. And she was not one of show biz's awful bitches. Her Oscar is well deserved.

[quote]Anybody else go to that magical night of Anyone Can Whistle at Carnegie Hall?

From all accounts, Madeline was under-rehearsed. She missed cues and sang over Bernadette.

Yes it was underrehearsed but it was still a great night for what worked.

Her voice wasn't right for Cora. Her voice was right for Amalia, but her characterization was wrong.

not as wrong as Ms Benanti's

[quote]and that unexpected laugh is what sent Babs to the bathroom to hide where she made her comment to a concerned Peter who came looking for her .

Barbra didn't want to do What's Up Doc? in the first place. She was hoping to work on a serious drama with Bogdonovich because she loved The Last Picture Show so much. It was Peter who suggested that Ryan and her do a modern day screwball comedy. Barbra reluctantly agreed to it. They watched a bunch of classic screwball comedies before filming started and Barbra couldn't understand what was so funny about them. Barbara thought WUD was a piece of shit and told Ryan that it was going to ruin both of their careers. Having Madeline show up and steal the movie from her I doubt did much to warm her to the experience.

Even know when Streisand speaks on the film, it's with more toleration than actual appreciation of it.

And yes, R123, it's her best work, personally, and her best film.

Heckart gave the same performance in Butterflies are Free she pretty much gave her entire career- false politeness with a "cat that swallowed the canary" look on her face. If you're not familiar with it, just watch Dixie Carter.

R123, and all of that tells you a lot about Streisand in a nutshell.

[quote]Even know when Streisand speaks on the film, it's with more toleration than actual appreciation of it.

Streisand did the DVD commentary for "What's Up Doc?"

It is--without equal-- the worst DVD commentary I have ever heard. She speaks for just a few minutes and says riveting things like "Oh, I forgot that."

She also makes a point of saying she just did what she was told to do. That struck me as a rather unobservant thing to say as it is one of her best performances.

The DVD commentaries say it all, R123. Bogdonovich's are informative and entertaining throughout the whole film.

Streisand does selected scenes. She clearly has no real memory, asking if specific events happen in a scene, expressing confusion on plot points, etc He most engaged comments are about how comfortable the stretch satin pants she wore in the chase scene were.

Not really, 125.

^ for r125

Bitch upstaged me. But I outlived her.

Madeline had the same quality as Gilda and Judy Holliday. You want to be protective of them.

By the time of Butterflies are Free, Heckart's performance had frozen in amber. Plus the fact that she was unable to transcend the material, which was trite and sitcommy and written in a way that made it feel like one was watching people say lines rather than react to one another. I don't blame Heckart for that, nor do I fault her for being unable to do more with the material; the play was relentlessly mediocre, as was the film script. Much like Neil Simon's work, Leonard Gershe wrote lines, not dialogue. Heckart was serviceable, but because of the limits of the script there wasn't too much she could do with the role, and she didn't. And putting that performance up against someone like Kahn's in What's Up, Doc, or even the nominated Susan Tyrrell from Fat City and choosing it over them seems like a wrong choice to me, but the Oscars are lousy with wrong choices or the phrase "Academy Award winner Jennifer Hudson" wouldn't exist.

There was an avoidant quality about Madeline, though.

BB&B

R133, I strongly disagree.

^Never saw Ten Little Indians.

[quote]which was hilarious.

Yes, Truman Capote's performance had me in the aisle. As I was leaving.

Shelley Winters swimming in the water to save everybody got her the nomination.

Jeannie Berlin's meltdown in the restaurant scene clearly netted her the nomination.

Geraldine Page's scene where she can't bring herself to reveal her true age and then fights with Carol Burnett on the lawn got her the nomination.

Madeline had some great moments, but I don't think she had that one standout scene like she did in Paper Moon and Blazing Saddles.

MbD was all about Mags...

R125 has clearly never seen Miss Heckart's work in THE BAD SEED or THE SORROWS OF GIN or read a thing about her stage career; instead, s/he's the one who's "coasting" -- on vague memories of Heckie TV guest appearances.

She left skidmarks on my Pratesi sheets

R123 She can be such an asshole. How can she not realize that What's Up Doc? is her best movie? That it's the only movie she actually is sexy in? I find her VERY funny in it. A different kind of funny than Kahn's gut busting funny. It boggles my mind when people don't appreciate their successes.

If she was nice she wouldn't be dead today.

Sound logic.

She's probably pissed at What's Up Doc because she thought it would be a flop and she took a flat fee rather than participation.

I waited on her once when I worked at Ernie's on Broadway. She was with a gay guy around her age and seemed very, very shy even though I made it a point to never "recognize" anyone famous, or engage in conversation unless they initiated any, which she did not. Sweet and demure is my memory of her.

[quote]She's probably pissed at What's Up Doc because she thought it would be a flop

It would've been a flop if she wasn't in it. She should have been arrested for theft on that movie, 'cause she stole every scene she was in.

R146 I was deeply in lust with a waiter at Ernie’s. Early 90s, I guess. Rick, a blonde beauty.

Blond.

Apologies, R149.

What is the movie where she sings a poignant version of "Painting the Clouds with Sunshine"?

Are you thinking of Barbara Harris in Who is Harry Kellerman...? I didn't realize it was such a lovely song. I only knew it as a jaunty showtune tune from Golddiggers of 1929.

Did Kahn sing it as well?

That might be it, r152. A friend told me it was Kahn, though. But I haven't found any evidence she actually sung it. Thank you!

I looked and looked, but I don't think this clip has been posted yet.

She did sing Patti LaBelle, though, right?

[quote]How can she not realize that What's Up Doc? is her best movie?

My guess is that Streisand downplays how good that movie is, and how good she is in it, because that was one of the few movies she made where she was just acting talent for hire and had no control over the film other than her own performance. She's exactly the sort of nasty piece of work who would underrate the movie for that reason.

But didn't she do a DVD commentary? It's not like she's disowned it.

Madeline Kahn was a DOLL

A Kew-pie doll!

I always liked her hot dogs.

r155: From "Streisand: Her Life :" by James Spada:

In production Streisand worried about the lighting, the sets, and the wardrobe. "She doesn't work from a confidence base," said Ryan. "She likes to go into a project thinking it's the worst, and she builds from there."

Bogdanovich recalled: "All through the picture Barbra kept telling Ryan: 'Ryan, we're in a piece of shit. . I mean, we're really in trouble.' She also tried to direct, but I put a stop to that real fast."

"Peter used to scold Barbra because she didn't do what he said," said O'Neal. "Barbra can do a scene twenty different ways and they all sound right to me. She'd say, 'Pick one.' But Peter always wanted one she hadn't done. He tried to condense her and pull her back. He made her cut her nails. He wouldn't let her wear makeup, hairpieces, or all the things she's used to doing, because all her movies have been vehicles."

Bogdanovich later claimed that he had to drag Barbra "kicking and screaming through the picture. She thought we were going to do something else, and I suppose I tricked her," he said. "She'd make trouble occasionally about things that she didn't think were funny, and I'd just laugh at her. She'd ask me what I was laughing at and I'd tell her she was cute. She wouldn't know what to say to that.......But the first time Bogdanovich showed Barbra how he wanted her to recite some dialogue, she looked at him as though he has lost his mind. "Are you giving me line readings?" she asked

It may have been this difficulty that made Barbra doubt that anything in "What's Up, Doc?" was funny. As Pat Rogalla put it, "Barbra appeared to be working with gritted teeth." After nearly every scene, she would nudge O'Neal and say, "We're in a piece of shit, Ryan!" She never let up. Again and again she told O'Neal, "This is not funny, Ryan. I know what's funny, and I'm telling you this movie isn't funny"

Actress Madeline Kahn, who made her film debut in What's Up Doc? and who later romped home with most of the attention and the accolades for her scenes, recalled her expectations. "I was a little apprehensive about Barbra. I had heard that a lot of performers wound up on the cutting-room floor in her movies.

But I knew Peter had control. I was looking forward to working with her. We're both Jewish; we're both from New York; I sing and she sings—I thought we'd have a lot to talk about. But Barbra wasn't having any of that. Ryan was wonderful. Very funny, and helpful. But Barbra preferred to keep a polite distance."

Barbra was a hired hand. She had no control over the final cut. She knew Kahn was going to steal the picture from her and couldn't cut her out. Though it's one of Streisand's most beguiling performances, most people remember Kahn as the funniest person in the film. No wonder Streisand hates "What's Up, Doc?".

Kahn was reportedly a revelation as Cunegonde in the one-performance-only benefit concert version of “Candide” at Lincoln Center in the spring of 1968. Co-starring Alan Arkin as Narrator/Dr. Pangloss/Martin, and Irra Pettina repeating her original role as the Old Woman, the script they mostly used is adapted from the Lillian Hellman original. After a short run in 1956, this was the first time since then that the show had been performed in New York.

Fortunately, a live performance tape has been circulating for years. Judging from that, Mahn seems to have been the best Cunegonde, bar none.

The lady had magic.

*Kahn. Yikes! Excuse my pudgy fingers.

R161, Kahn certainly has many memorable moments in that CANDIDE, but it's also obvious that "Glitter and Be Gay" stretched her to the limit and beyond, vocally.

Also, can we retire the wildly overused "[X] was a revelation"? No matter how good Kahn was as Cunegonde, what on Earth would the "revelation" have been? Was Barbara Cook not brilliant, and hailed as such, in the role a mere decade before?

"He made her cut her nails. He wouldn't let her wear makeup, hairpieces, or all the things she's used to doing, because all her movies have been vehicles."

Annnnd Streisand looks way better in What's Up Doc? than she does in any other movie. She's genuinely sexy in it.

I wonder if she ever got together with Cher and threw darts and a dartboard with Peter Bogdanovich's picture on it.

[quote][R146] I was deeply in lust with a waiter at Ernie’s. Early 90s, I guess. Rick, a blonde beauty.

If it was late 80s it was my dear friend Richard "Rick" Ellis, a handsome blond. Everybody loved him. I can't recall another blond Rick and I worked there forever. He died in 1996 of AIDS and I still miss his incredible friendship. He was a real character and the hardest worker I knew. He later managed B. Smith's for a few years when it was on 47th and 8th, and was very good friends with Barbara.

Babs only agreed to cut her nails on one hand, which is why she drapes a coat over the other arm.

That James Spada description of the making of WUD sounds highly credible. I'm impressed by Bogdanovich's clear-sighted vision and control over Streisand.

My question is how did Peter Bogdanovich evolve into such a lousy director after the brilliance of LAST PICTURE SHOW, PAPER MOON and WUD? I know some people cite his wife Polly Platt's participation in the first two films, but there has to something more to it than that.

The difference between Barbara Cook and Madeline Kahn playing Cunegonde in CANDIDE may have been a true comic genius that the former lacked and the later brought to it.

I didn't see either lady and haven't heard any audio of Kahn's performance.....I'm just guessing that's where this idea of a "revelation" may come from.

Oh, for fuck's sake, R168. Stop wasting everyone's time with your lazy guessing.

Five minutes and 22 seconds. That's all that's needed to make an informed statement.

I wish there were video of Madeline's "Vanilla Ice Cream." There's laughter from physical business.

I love Madeline Kahn, but the audio of her CANDIDE and SHE LOVE ME performances (I have both complete) finds her slathering mannerism and camp everywhere in ways that (to me) don't have much to do with the characters she's playing. (SHE LOVES ME, being a 3-dimensional show with 3-dimensional characters, especially suffers in this regard).

I suspect that in both cases she received little to no direction. Such performances always remind me of what someone who was at Yale with Streep once told me: "When she was well directed, you couldn't believe how brilliant she was. [And when she wasn't? I asked.] She would eat the stage."

I love that MK got a guest spot for the brilliant Charles Ludlam on her sitcom. Ludlam was just breaking into the "mainstream" at the time with his hit play "The Mystery of Irma Vep". His appearance on "Oh, Madeline" in 1984 brilliantly captures what was amazing about his performances.

The episode, 'Play Crystal For Me' is hilarious. It's on YouTube.

I don' think Madeline was right for Amalia but that doesn't mean I wouldn't (or shouldn't) like to see her in the role. Neurotic types - the open ones, not the ones who can camouflage it well - don't tend to slot into leading roles well. Kahn also didn't seem especially comfortable with relating to others in a sexual way, something with which, say, Streisand has never had difficulty.

[quote]I love Madeline Kahn, but the audio of her CANDIDE and SHE LOVE ME performances (I have both complete) finds her slathering mannerism and camp everywhere in ways that (to me) don't have much to do with the characters she's playing. (SHE LOVES ME, being a 3-dimensional show with 3-dimensional characters, especially suffers in this regard).

Also, in that recording of "Glitter and Be Gay," Kahn gets a little out of sync with the orchestra in more than one section. Seems to me she could be instinctively brilliant in the right role but she wasn't a very disciplined performer, especially not when it came to performing music like that.

[quote]My question is how did Peter Bogdanovich evolve into such a lousy director after the brilliance of LAST PICTURE SHOW, PAPER MOON and WUD? I know some people cite his wife Polly Platt's participation in the first two films, but there has to something more to it than that.

I don't think there is more to it. Polly had the taste, Peter did not.

Madeline Kahn was nice, OP.

Madeline's voice on the "Glitter and Be Gay" sounds quite richer, like a full lyric to lirico-spinto soprano with coloratura ability, as opposed to Barbara Cook's soubrette/light coloratura. Both great. Kahn did get a bit away from the orchestra, but this was a one-off and even though Cook's production flopped, she did get to do previews and about 2-3 months of it on Broadway. Kahn sounds pretty hilarious and like she was wowing the audience on that. Kahn, unlike Cook, did get off her highest note a bit quickly (the E natural or E flat), but she did hit it. Otherwise, thanks for that, it was a great treat! Cook was a fine comedic actress, too, and I find her line readings on the recording quite funny, too (even without an audience). I'm sure she made quite an impact on audiences as well, as Lenny Bernstein just had to bring Maria Callas to hear it.

I think Cheno had an appropriate cartoon quality and gets through Glitter with no sweat. Candide really is *all* about the score and I think it works best in a lightly staged concert production.

Kristin Chenoweth is not untalented, but she still turns in shitty performances. She performs like any 10 year old girl in her dance studio's annual dance recital. She mugs and panders and its generally all about the shoulders. Awful. And she should be kept miles away from Cunegonde. She's hideous.

Here's a voice. And a comic actress. Eir Inderhaug.

Or Natalie Dessay. An entirely different character. But a legitimate character. And gorgeously sung.

Watched it, r179....no thanks. I prefer Kristen to Dorothy Lyman.

Marilyn's...

Kristin, dammit...

What about June Anderson? I was at this performance, once upon a time.

Erie Mills was great when NY CIty Opera did the Hal Prince version years ago. I remember the late Gianna Rolandi in concert also did a wonderful version of "Glitter and Be Gay" too.

Peter Bodgonovich fell headfirst into his own hype and thought he could do no wrong. His career was also hindered by his insistence on making Cybill Shepherd compete with other A list actresses of the day. Then came the whole Dorothy Stratten thing which really torpedoed his career. After Stratten died, it seems he lost most of the passion for moviemaking that he had.

I disagree that it was Polly Platt doing the heavy lifting though. He did a movie called Saint Jack, post Cybill, pre Dorothy that was pretty good. TCM ran it last year.

Are there any good musical numbers in "At Long Last Love" (good beside for camp value) -- I saw it on tv years ago, and it was pretty bad, living up to its infamous reputation, even with some inherent great songs.

How many of these Cunegondes who can navigate the tricky song also have the look and comic ability the role requires?

R156, Barbra's commentary on Whats Up Doc is only a few scenes. And mostly it is her saying, "Isn't there a part of the scene where she....oh, there it is. Those satin stretch pants were great. I had more made and I wore them for years."

Bogdonovich's full film commentary is one of the best there is.

R156, Barbra's commentary on Whats Up Doc is only a few scenes. And mostly it is her saying, "Isn't there a part of the scene where she....oh, there it is. Those satin stretch pants were great. I had more made and I wore them for years."

Bogdonovich's full film commentary is one of the best there is.

Not really, r187, they're all pretty clunky. Madeline and Eileen deserved so much better. And the design was foolish. Cybill's hair was so contemporary and looked stupid with that turban. His idea to not pre-record the numbers like they did in the '30s makes them worse than they had to be. The black and white costumes with the color in the scenery is just gimmicky. If he was going for homage, he should have filmed it in black and white.

I think the guy Dulio de Prete from "At Long Last Love" did a full-frontal scene somewhere when I searched info on him years ago. Very hot actually.

Seems like Bodgonovich became convinced that Burt Reynolds was like an old tyme movie star, like Clark Gable or something. Those movies would've been terrible anyway, but Burt didn't help.

There's a Q&A with Lucille Ball at the Museum of Broadcasting in 1985. Someone in the audience asked her "The only comedy I like on TV is Oh Madeline. It reminds me of I Love Lucy. Do you like it?"

Lucy seemed to still be bitter about her bad experience with her on Mame. She said "No, I don't look at ANYTHING with Madeline Kahn. But there are a couple of people over there who WE TRAINED. Some people aren't as loyal as others."

She was talking about Bob Carroll, Jr and Madelyn Pugh, former ILL writers who were brought in to Oh Madeline as consultants. All must've been forgiven because a couple years later Lucy hired them for the lamentable Life With Lucy.

Lucy was upset because she felt Madeline deliberately got out of Mame to go do Blazing Saddles. Thus why she gave Lucy the excuse that it took time to come up with her character. Lucy felt Kahn set her up so she would have no choice but to fire her.

Kahn apparently got paid for the movie as well, which ruffled Lucy's feathers.

Others have talked about Kahn's process so it doesn't sound like an excuse re Mame. Kahn refused to say the "Trixie and her big tits" line. She might have been fired from Paper Moon if Bogdanovich didn't know that he could get one take out of her where she would say that line. Similarly, Kahn was uncomfortable with the comic "rape" in Young Frankenstein. She decided to undercut the implication of the scene by junking Brooks' song suggestion ("Heaven, I'm In Heaven") and substituting "Ah, Sweet Mystery of Life" for it. Madeline Kahn was a true creative.

[quote]Kahn was uncomfortable with the comic "rape" in Young Frankenstein. She decided to undercut the implication of the scene by junking Brooks' song suggestion ("Heaven, I'm In Heaven") and substituting "Ah, Sweet Mystery of Life" for it.

How the hell does the substitution of one song for the other "undercut the implication of the scene?" I think it's 100 percent clear what's supposed to be happening when she sings "Ah, Sweet Mystery of Life."

I love that scene in YF. It’s been years since I’ve viewed it, but it seemed pretty a mutual relationship—she’s frightened, then sees how well endowed the monster is—and bursts into ecstasy. Or am I remembering it wrong?

Madeline talks about working with Brooks here.

R199 that was a good show, I remember watching it in high school whenever I got to stay up late doing nothing (usually Friday’s) They were good, real interviews.

You're not remembering it wrong but Madeline was concerned that it would read as rape.

Clue had such a top notch cast, I'm surprised that it didn't do well at the box office.

Though it's become a huge cult favorite over the years.

R202, I LOVE CLUE, but only for Madeline, 'I HATED HER SO MUCH...' is my favorite scene in all of film.

[quote]But didn't she do a DVD commentary? It's not like she's disowned it.

As r189 / r190 double posted, Barbra phoned it in. Shortest, most uninteresting DVD commentary I have ever heard. It was insulting to her fans and the movie's fan base.

And that was AFTER delaying an already-announced DVD release so she could package it with other movies of hers. She's a real, consistent cunt about this movie.

[quote]She's a real, consistent cunt about this movie.

....as she is about so many other things. I wonder, after she goes, the floodgates are going to open as far as stories about her colossal ego, her nastiness, her self-absorption, and her total lack of loyalty and gratitude to the people who helped her during her life and career.

But hasn't she been with Marty forever?

[quote]But hasn't she been with Marty forever?

After she fired him and her career stalled and then she aged out of "contemporary icon" and hired him back to manage her "ageless icon" status.

I'm sure he has stories to tell about her lack of gratitude.

We've already heard horrible stories of her treatment of Barry Dennen, Peter Matz, the director of A STAR IS BORN, and so many others. I wonder if there will be a deluge of additional stories after she's gone.

If she lives long enough, no one will care about the stories because they'll involve long forgotten names.

Barry Dennen though did admit out of spite he hurt her. And she did invite him to her 50th birthday party. What did she do to Matz?

I believe Harold Rome said after (maybe Funny Girl?) becoming a big star she stopped returning his calls.

And why was Harold Rome calling? To wish her well? Or to schnorr a bit her fame?

I don't know. But 'stopped returning his calls' begs the question... Why? It's not enough to assume she was unjustified.

Actually bumped into Madeline Kahn walking down Lexington avenue in 80's several years before she passed on. Just turned my head and she was right beside me! Almost started to say her name but she smiled and shook her head as an indication not to blow her cover. As we were passing a supermarket one assumes that was where MK was headed.

Later on told a friend who had worked for Ms. Kahn about the encounter and he said she lived in that part of UES, so that explains things.

Far as event goes Ms. Kahn was perfectly "nice" and it was a blast chance encounter. Would have loved to have chatted more with MK, but golden rule #1 for native New Yorkers is not to gawk and or otherwise intrude upon private space of celebs, so left Ms. Kahn to go about her business in peace.

Well Babs scored her first big success in Rome's Wholesale and is quite wonderful in the studio recording of his Pins and Needles. Maybe he thought they were friends and the feeling was mutual.

R165, yes it was Rick Ellis. He had given me a card of his that I assume he used when making the rounds for modeling gigs. His ridiculously handsome mug was on the card. I wish I had kept it. He was a a nice guy and I am sorry for your loss.

I read somewhere that deep down inside she was a bit of a prude. Just an old fashioned nice girl.

As a Lesbian, I think she had a naturally pretty face and a great figure. She oftentimes downplayed that in her comedy so at least she wasn't vain.

She sang the hell out of "Glitter and be Gay." Fine soprano on her!

She was vain. How could she not be when living her working life in front of a camera? Thankfully, she didn't get too crazy with "upkeep."

Bill Madison, the author of the Kahn biography, once fucked me into a frenzy during the 1990s.

Did you break into song?

I saw Two By Two shortly after she left. I had no idea who she was at the time so it meant little to me. Of course I now regret not going to it earlier but I was going for Kaye as was everybody else. He was very beloved. How it was kept a big secret that he was such a cruel jerk I have no idea but I guess he made money for people.

But at the same time I can't imagine the show without him. It was so mediocre and he knew it so he turned it into one of his nights at the Palace or Palladium and it was fun. Though I think now I would find it embarrassing. He is still terrific in White Christmas.

r213: I think Rome kept sending songs to Barbra hoping she would record them, and she just got tired of being submitted "South America, Take It Away" , "FDR Jones" (one of Garlands most thrilling MGM vocals in "Babes on Broadway") "Wish You Were Here" and "Don José of Far Rockaway" multiple times.

I hadn't read that. I thought she ghosted him because she knew at that point he could no longer help her. His best days were behind him and if those were the songs he was sending to her they were.

Quite a few of Harold Rome's shows would probably hold up well in performance even today -- "Fanny" was one of Encores best shows, "Destry Rides Again" offers some plum roles and "Wholesale" possibly might play pretty well, too.

I met Bill Madison at Brown and thought he was kind of a drip.

r221: There is a postscript.

In 1985, Streisand recorded "A Funny Thing Happened On My Way to Love" from WHOLESALE (Introduced by Marilyn Cooper and Elliott Gould) for the first Broadway Album, but it was cut. So Rome must have known she was recording it - only to be disappointed to find it not on the album.

A bootleg exists - Streisand is fantastic on it - though it isn't on YouTube.

The original 1962 version:

Was Wholesale done by Encores?

Ms. Kahn dodged a bullet with "Mame". Her iconic performance as Lili von Shtupp in "Blazing Saddles" is priceless, and far better showcase of the good lady's talents.

Deleted scene:

"It's true, it's true"

The Carol Burnett show

I could write a book on loving celebrities and their work and then coming to LA and getting to know them via various jobs including an entertainment reporter.

The most talented ones can be the most neurotic and they're either unaware of how hurtful then can be or they just don't care.

All the cliches about never meeting your idols are true. They're NOT their characters as much as you may want them to be.

That said, most have been cordial and professional; many are nice but to be kind also? Mariksa Hargitay. Florence Henderson. Judith Light. Cameron Mathison. Linda Gray. Kate Flannery. Cher have all been pretty nice and or kind.

Some of these names come off one encounter; others, I've met and/or interviewed many times.

Another great performance by Ms. Kahn...

Patter song (I'm Not Getting Married Today) from Company.

MK does a respectable job with this number, but things were slowed down a wee bit.

Two DL favorites! Betty White and Madeline Kahn!

Madeline Kahn wins a Tony!

MK discusses her "accidental" opera career.

For what it is worth Madeline Kahn did audition for the Metropolitan Opera. Sadly while her instrument was quite good it was deemed lacking in necessary power, so they turned her down.

Madeline Kahn has lice

No mention of Francis McDormand at R233. Did Madeline and Francis hate one another?

I found her kinda bossy.

[quote]I found her kinda bossy.

Yes, Eunice.

Even the porter knows exactly what to say.

Oh dear myself!! *FrancEs.

So in r232's video, in their banter, are they implying that working with Mel Brooks wasn't a pleasant experience for Madeline. This exchange is so odd in today's context as I can't imagine Betty White would have participated in this type of banter 10 years ago with her image. And you forget that Mel had a bit of a low career point around this time. Was he perceived as difficult before he sequed into beloved 90+ year old comedy treasure?

Before being cast in Blazing Saddles, Madeline Kahn went for an interview in Mel Brook's offices. Mr. Brooks told Ms. Kahn to lift up her skirts. The lady was shocked and taken aback but such a request and said at first "no". Mel Brooks continued that the character Lili von Shtupp was going to show her legs so he needed to what Madeline Kahn's looked like.

MK finally agreed but said "Ok, but no funny business."

Didn't Betty White out Cary Grant within the last ten years?

R241

Think that banter was showing Betty White had a much more extensive C.V at that time than Madeline Kahn. Betty White had about five or so famous named mentioned, while MK only two...

People have been outing Cary Grant for 50 years. Even my father who had the gaydar of a plank(I was listening to the obc of Hello Dolly around the clock as a boy and he was shocked to learn later I was gay)knew about Randolph Scott and Grant decades ago.

Your father chit chatting is not the same as as celebrity outing a Hollywood legend on TV.

R241 l/r244 I didn’t quite “get” that banter either. Kahn also must have been extremely short as well (I’m guessing 5’1”ish), if she was even shorter than Betty.

I used to watch those awards all the time as a kid. I’m still looking for that Steve Martin/Mel Brooks tribute to Carl Reiner which I still remember it was so funny. Parts of it used to be on YouTube.

[quote]MK does a respectable job with this number, but things were slowed down a wee bit.

In fairness to her, the number is usually done by someone who has had weeks/months of rehearsals, not someone who is doing it as a one-off for a concert.

She is excellent, very funny, and even lands the bouquet throw in perfect timing.

My point was that decades ago it was open knowledge that Grant was gay because you could even read about it in the papers and magazines.

Betty White is part of the Hollywood Establishment. Betty White outing Cary Grant is not spreading rumors, like a gossip column might. That's my point.

Doesn't Dyan Cannon still deny it to this day?

Cannon's daughter certainly does.

Ms. Betty White did *NOT* out Cary Grant....

Later follow up interview...

She tried to walk it back. That doesn't mean she didn't out him. She did. The original clip was clear as day.

It's very easy to say things about someone who no longer is living to defend themselves.

If Scotty Bower is to be believed nearly half or more of actors from golden age Hollywood were gay. Orry -Kelly had his own various axes to grind.

Since the dead cannot be legally slandered everyone seems to have picked up on "Cary Grant was gay", and run with that narrative.

She co-starred in the movie Impromtu, a semi-serious character….so not a comedienne in the beginning at least.

[quote]Doesn't Dyan Cannon still deny it to this day?

Dyan even denies she had a ghost writer do the entire writing job on her successful autobiography, but she did. I don't understand all the obfuscation here, but I am convinced Dyan is a C*NT.

[quote]Since the dead cannot be legally slandered

Well, Liberace won his lawsuit because he wasn't gay.

People are either gay or they are not. It has nothing to do with lawsuits.

You're using Liberace to troll?!

What axes did Orry-Kelly have to grind? He was lovers with Grant when they were both poor and then Grant treated him as if he barely knew him. He was deeply hurt and probably never got over him causing a lot of bitterness.

R261, you seem to have answered your own question...

[quote]Well, Liberace won his lawsuit because he wasn't gay.

In the 1950s.

Liberace v Daily Mirror was in 1959.

His next brush with law was Scott Thorson's lawsuit about thirty years later.

First one Liberace won a huge judgement, second was settled out of court.

We know now that in both instances Liberace was less generous with the truth (at least once under oath) because he was gay, or at least engaged in homosexual activities.

This unless you want to believe the man contracted HIV from visiting a dentist, blood transfusion or perhaps from shooting up.

He got is from watermelon.

After Liberace died and true cause of death exposed Daily Mirror wanted their money back. They ran a headline "Any Chance Of A Refund?"

I’ll do it for $50.

Scott Thorson said...

r261: What a cunt to do that to Orry-Kelly. No doubt O-K's proud queeniness made Grant very uncomfortable.

Orry-Kelly himself admitted that his relationship with Cary Grant was "on again, off again, on again..." So whatever did go on wasn't exactly a love match.

Cary Grant maintained some sort of friendship with Orry-Kelly, enough at least to serve as one of pallbearers at Mr. Kelly's funeral.

Because he wanted to make sure he was dead and buried.

I'm watching a Judy Holliday movie. I was thinking, who does she remind me of? It was Madeline Kahn. I think they look similar, have the same high pitched, funny voice and have that endearing, quirky quality. They are naturally very funny.

Madeline Kahn played Holliday’s role in a Broadway revival of Born Yesterday. It didn’t go well.

She got a Tony nomination for her trouble, R273. So someone liked her Billie Dawn.

It only ran for 149 performances, though.

Kahn wasn’t as one-note as Judy was. I never really thought that Judy Holliday was that brilliant of an actress. She was the same in most of her roles to me.

Actors are products, r276. If people like your product, you run the risk of falling out of favor if you change your ingredients.

[quote]Anybody else go to that magical night of Anyone Can Whistle at Carnegie Hall?

No one has ever sung "The Cookie Chase" more hilariously (including Angela Lansbury). It's like that song was written expressly for her talents.

[quote]Kahn wasn’t as one-note as Judy was. I never really thought that Judy Holliday was that brilliant of an actress.

Judy Holliday did not give a "one-note" performance in BORN YESTERDAY. What an epically stupid comment.

The one-night-only ANYONE CAN WHISTLE with Kahn, etc. was something of a mess overall, though it did have its moments.

[quote]The one-night-only ANYONE CAN WHISTLE with Kahn, etc. was something of a mess overall, though it did have its moments.

That's pretty much what I heard about it, r279.

MK made an attempt at Billie Dawn and did okay......I just don't think Judy Holliday as much as I love her - could have done Eunice Burns.

Judy was a one note actress r279. She was.

And yet Judy was a headliner. And Madeline wasn't.

Jennifer Lopez was too r283. Which goes to show you…

Lopez is not for me. I think I've only seen one movie of hers. But she's comfortable as a headliner. Madeline wasn't.

[quote]Judy was a one note actress [R279]. She was.

Only according to your warped idea of what "one-note" means.

She was a lesbian.

Who was her gf?

But at least she got some pipe from Aldo Ray.

How dare you try to bring down such a real Diva!

Judy Holliday's one-time lesbian gf, the subject of this bio.

At what point do the so-supportive Marys on this thread turn into Frauen?

I suggest it's when they comfort other posters for leaving out information and cooing in that "poor victim Madeline" way.

It's like transitioning before one's eyes.

BUMP