Family (1976-80) Appreciation Thread

I started watching this show too on Tubi. What I enjoy most about it is the nostalgic feel of the program. Wishing I was back there instead of now.

But Kristy McNikol looks like a boy. When I see her in Empty Nest she looks like a different person completely.

I still remember some DL'ers comment that their mother couldn't decide if Family was appropriate for a child to watch, or if Kristy McNichol was a boy or a girl, and after a few seasons hadn't settled on the latter, so the verdict was they couldn't watch it.

One of my favorite episodes is the still-shocking 1977 show where Willie's high school friend is arrested in a gay bar bust (in 1977 LA?) and dad Doug bails him out and defends him in court and against his homophobic dad.

In one scene, Doug and Willie talk about the teenage crushes they had on other boys.

Shocking! Would never air today.

Don't forget, it was

A

Mike Nichols

Production

bitches

Doesn’t Sada Thompson give birth in a department store after hours, or something?

The thing I've noticed from rewatching the show on Tubi is that there were some excellent episodes, but the show is really uneven.

From watching clips and the random episode on YouTube, you'd assume all of them were up to a certain caliber. And that makes orphan Annie seem a more annoying character than she actually was in the flow of the series.

The fourth season, by and large, is awful. Every show is about sex. Buddy is pressured to fuck Leif Garrett. Nancy is pressured to fuck her boss. Willie feels pressured to fuck/not to fuck a married Kim Cattrall. Kate and Doug deal with a friend who's fucking around on his wife (MBB's real-life mother, Whitney Blake, who is terrible). Kate pressures Willie to stop fucking her friend (Shelley Long). Kate is pressured to fuck a visiting Russian composer. But not if Michael J. Fox (guest starring as a 15-year-old) gets to realize his wish to fuck her first. Awful!

If you watch the episodes in sequence, Annie is actually a relief—someone dealing with basic problems like grief, loyalty and fitting in. The producers were actually smart to add her, because Buddy was 16 when the season began, and she just started adding to the orgy pile.

The Lawrences were portrayed as Annie's last, best hope. But CPS would have pulled her out of that household of sex maniacs.

Also in season 4: Nancy is about to marry a guy accused of child molestation (her real-life-at-the-time husband, David Birney). He admits to molesting a 13-year-old girl in the past. But Nancy doesn't believe the current allegations and fights to preserve his reputation!

Awful!

I’m an old so I remember watching it on network. I loved the early seasons and as a kid from a broken family I wanted to be a part of their world.

Wonder why Meredith was allowed to use the show to get her family members work? We didn't see Jimmy McNichol or Matthew Broderick on Family.

James Broderick probably could have gotten Matthew a gig, but there was not a single sympathetic young male guest part on that show. They were all harassers or menacers.

[quote]Wonder why Meredith was allowed to use the show to get her family members work?

In her autobiography, MBB says her mother and David were competitive and insecure and made her feel bad about how much work she was getting and they weren't.

Then you see them in Meredith's habitat, and they're bland to awful. Say what you will about MBB, but she brought a certain warmth and realism not every '70s TV featured player could.

R6 nailed it. The show was generally quite good, but sometimes its insistence on addressing serious subject matter in a 48 minute network TV show made for some ridiculously simplistic "solutions."

I just watched the third season episode in which late discovered that one of Doug's work colleagues is beating up his little boy (an 8 or 9-year-old kid who is written as if he were 4 or 5). There's much Sturm und Drang, then Kate just walks over and sternly tells the cowering wife to stop worrying about herself and protect her son. Voila! She calls the police to turn in her husband. 🙄 I mean, come on.

I think the writing for Kate's confrontation scene in that episode is quite good, R12.

And nobody but nobody knew how to corner a sniveling bitch in a scene like Sada Thompson.

MBB allegedly was up for the role of Jaime Summers. Glad that she didn’t get it. I heard that Susan Dey was too. Lindsay Wagner was the right choice.

R3-, That VERY special GAY episode was shown in 1976.

In 1977 I was 11 years old and Family was on at 10pm which was my bedtime. Once in a while I would stay up late to watch a movie which would end at 11pm. Family was also a little too ADULT for an 11 year old. I watched it's sister show Eight Is Enough which was on at 8pm and was a comedy/drama so therefore not as serious. I started watching Family as repeats in the mid 1980's on WOR Channel 9.

No, R15. It was shown in 1977.

It was supposed to be the opener for the second season, but ABC got nervous and pushed it back to December.

Trivia: In that episode, Meredith Baxter Birney had to reshoot the camera angles that involved the previous (and second) actress who was hired-then-fired as Nancy (Jane Actman). You can tell, watching it today — there are blips of continuity and sound levels whenever MBB is on screen.

I discovered Family when it ran on cable's Nostalgia Network at 9pm Central in the early/mid-'90s.

I was mesmerized by the theme song and the cuteness of Gary Frank.

r4 Don't forget it was

An

Aaron

Spelling

Production

bitch!

You tacky bitch, R19,

Mike got *above the title credit*, not Aaron, and you know it!

First, I loved the show when it was on. Maybe it was a different world. (Ya think?) I could probably dissect and discuss every single episode. I had a lovely but neurotic mother, so I wanted Kate as a mother.

Second, I'll never understand the pricing on Amazon. I paid $36 for this set - right now on Amazon, 'Family - The Complete First and Second Seasons' Box Set, is selling for $183.50. Used is $54. My set at $36 was new. Maybe it's as simple as supply and demand.

So if you want to watch it without commercials, or if it disappears from sight again (as it has in the past), get yourself to Amazon for a used set and hope for the best.

R21 It's been out of print for 15 years, so yes. Supply and demand. That said, Amazon is the worst place to buy stuff on the secondary market as it's all way overpriced. Ebay is better.

I watched the whole show in syndication in the mid 80s when I was a teenager. Great comfort food television. Middle class people and their problems didn’t break any new ground, but it was extremely well acted, written and produced. Kristy was so great. The whole cast in fact.

The Tubi episodes are great quality (upscaled and HD) through season 3.

Which suggests Sony had brushed up the season 3 episodes for a DVD release that didn't happen.

Seasons 4 and 5 aren't good quality—typical syndication prints with scratchiness and artifacts.

Studios need to step up and restore/preserve these classic TV series, especially if they're monetizing them like this.

[quote]Kate is pressured to fuck a visiting Russian composer. But not if Michael J. Fox (guest starring as a 15-year-old) gets to realize his wish to fuck her first. Awful!

Let's face it: everyone wanted to fuck Sada Thompson. She WAS Sex.

[quote]Wonder why Meredith was allowed to use the show to get her family members work? We didn't see Jimmy McNichol or Matthew Broderick on Family.

Some of you are acting as if Meredith was getting work for her mom, an actress who never acted before. Whitney Blake was already an established TV actress, she co-starred on the sitcom 1960s "Hazel" with Shirley Booth and Don DefFore. Whitney was on "Hazel" for four seasons.

Whitney was also the co-creator and writer of the sitcom "One Day at a Time."

...which she developed with the intention of starring in it, but they didn't want her. Which is why her daughter had to get her a guest shot on Family.

There should be a sitcom made based on MBB's life. America's twenty-something sweetheart with a grifter husband and mom, later becomes a classic TV mom, then becomes a later-in-life lesbian. I could see the lesbian partner and mom at constant odds. The ex is like Stan Zborbak. Hijinks ensue.

Loved that show as a teen living in the sticks in New England. I was especially taken with the guest house, a novel concept for me.

Ironically, I now live in Pasadena. That wonderful house is near my dentist, so every cleaning I do a drive by. Still lovely.

R26 = zombie Whitney Blake

Who couldn't act for shit, as proved by her guest role on her daughter's show.

R29, the last time I was in LA, I was going to drive by and take a selfie for Instagram. (Which nobody would understand.)

I wonder how many Family superfans the owners have to deal with. Not too many, I'd guess.

The backyard guesthouse would be a $300/night Airbnb today...with the obligatory, overpriced $100 "cleaning fee"!

It seems that every episode:

- They called the liquor store to bring over a bottle of gin or white wine.

- Somebody was toting a suitcase on their way "out of town" or was said to be out of town. (To explain a main player's absence from the action and concentrate on others/guest stars. Usually Nancy but occasionally Willie, the parents and even Buddy.)

Like R8, I loved that family and wanted to be part of their world, but I discovered the show 20 years later.

As a closeted son in a conservative Midwestern trying-to-be-upper-middle-class family, I was shocked that they TALKED about every conflict. There were no secrets, and their solutions to every problem were humanistic, not religious.

I thought that was just dreamy. As was Willie.

Season 4: Kate is getting a degree in music education (where? at Pomona College?). Her sourpuss instructor, William Daniels (K.I.T.T.), tries to discourage her. Kate does her student teaching (training/internship) at Buddy's high school, where one of her students is a totally disruptive Steve Guttenburg!

[quote]r6 Kate is pressured to fuck a visiting Russian composer. But not if Michael J. Fox (guest starring as a 15-year-old) gets to realize his wish to fuck her first. Awful!

[quote]R25 Let's face it: everyone wanted to fuck Sada Thompson. She WAS sex.

That’s why Family’s producer Aaron Spelling wanted to move her over to Charlie’s Angels. Sada was the hottest gal in town for about 5 minutes.

People forget that.

Kate seemed too smugly arrogant for my tastes. I found her to be insufferable at times. And Quinn Cummings is the Robbie Rist of nighttime family tv drama.

[quote]R36 Kate seemed too smugly arrogant for my tastes. I found her to be insufferable at times.

Jackson was indeed smug and arrogant on the Charlie’s Angels set. That’s one reason Sada was brought over, to put her in her place.

R38????? What?

Is it SAD-DAH or SAY-DAH?

Sada winning one of the four acting Emmys the show was given. Kristy got two and Gary Frank one.

Gee thanks...now I'm hooked on this show.

On Episode 2 now featuring Kim "You stole my goddamn house!" Richards and She-Ra as her mom.

How was Eight is Enough compared to this? Never really watched either.

Family was straight drama, while Eight Is Enough was a more of a dramady. They even had a mild laugh track. Family was by far the better written of the two, though 8IE was probably more entertaining and commercially successful.

How did “Our House” with Wilford Brimley compare to the two?

Right now all episodes are on YouTube - I downloaded them all before they get deleted by YouTube

In this scene Mean Girl Helen Hunt accuses classmate Kristy McNichol of being a lesbian.

R47 Miss Jessup was a very soft and kind lipstick lesbian. She should have told those bully kids to F off.

Kristy cried and laughed at the same time accepting an Emmy best actor win.

And to think that at least three of the actresses in Miss Jessup - Meredith, Kristy, and Helen - turned out to be lesbians. But not Blair Brown, playing a lesbian.

Dominique Dunne guest starring . Kristy was smitten.

R50 Helen Hunt still says she isn’t a lesbian.

I just saw the show opening credits and music after 40+ years. I instantly went to crying my eyes out as it reminded me of being 3 years old.

Beautiful theme, written by Pippin himself, cast member John Rubenstein.

It was also created by Jay Presson Allen, who was a few notches above your average TV writer.

r49 Kristy won best SUPPORTING (twice), although she was nominated as Lead once.

Wonderful show, can't enough. Linda Lavin guests on season 3 (she wants to have an affair with Mr. Lawrence!). Blair Warner guests on season 4 (she's after Leif Garrett's bod...you in danger, Buddy!). I love when John Rubinstein's on the show, also liked him in Crazy Like a Fox (1984-1986) and as Ted Danson's brother on Becker.

^^can't get enough

I tried downloading all the episodes of family on YT from Seasons 3-5 (I have the DVD for 1-2) but some of them are in pieces and most of them are in 240p. And two of them are missing.

It profoundly bothers me that no one has yet talked about the two most bizarre episodes that everyone who saw them always remembers:

1) Buddy decides to become a disco queen.

2) Kate has a disturbing dream she runs over and kills a child in the street, and elements of the dream start coming true.

[quote] some of them are in pieces and most of them are in 240p. And two of them are missing.

The ones that are in pieces I used my editing software to take all the pieces to make whole episodes

[quote] And two of them are missing.

which are the two that are missing?

Disliked. This show seemed "self-important" even before self-important network TV programs and actors appeared to have started to become a thing.

R62, beat it, you sourpuss. 🤮

Low rated show in the mostly peaked in the 30s during its height.

Did Sada Thompson have the mid-Atlantic accent?

[quote] And two of them are missing.

All episodes from season 3, 4 & 5 are all on YouTube

Except the last episode from season 4, "From Russia with Love".

R66, just watch it on Tubi, toots!

R61, I was not able to find Season 3's episode Echoes of Love and, as R66 mentioned, the Season 4 finale, From Russia With Love.

I will check again for Echoes of Love. When I downloaded everything a couple years back, it was not up there.

And yes, R67, I am now watching on Tubi, but since I know they'll never be released on DVD, and I also know that shows disappear from streaming services all the time with no warning, I would like to have my own copies, if possible.

Yes, R65. She was always saying "come over for dinnah."

Strange for a character who grew up on a farm in Oregon.

I love Family, but could they ever have ONE reasonably happy holiday? Thanksgiving? Doug's dad has dementia. Christmas? Timmy is gravely ill; Annie runs away. I'm sure I'm leaving some out. I mean, conflict is necessary in any narrative, but damn.

R39 I know. Someone seems very confused >>>R38

Fell asleep last night watching the episode where the house was burglarized and Mel Sharples played a lax police officer.

Was Pasadena a high crime area in the mid 70s?

R72 unlikely. But there had to be some drama percolating every episode.

I wonder who got molested on set and by whom.

I'm pretty damn sure Meredith and Kristy got into some hot scissoring action in their trailers.

"Scissor me Tizzy Lish, scissor me!"

I've gotta give some major thanks to OP for alerting us to Family's presence on Tubi. Spent all night last night watching Season 3 and I'll be diving into Season 4 tonight.

I can see that weird assed Quinn Cummings being all into learning lesbianism from Kristy.

I met Quinn briefly a few years ago, she was polite but indeed a little strange.

Quinn Cummings was basically Family's Cousin Oliver.

I tuned in after hearing raves about it’s grit and realism. That night’s drama featured Joel Grey pleading with the family not to stand in the way of Buddy’s true place: the Broadway stage! My family seems to have missed out on such happenstance.

"I tuned in after hearing raves about it’s grit and realism."

Oh, dear!

I was actually watching it on YouTube when Tubi starting showing it.

And I watched the first couple of seasons when first aired. Back then there wasn’t much to choose from.

Kate was SO affected and always acted like such a grande dame, it was comical.

I thought Willy was kind of cute.

Dumbest episode ever was Lief Garrett (when he had hair) wanting to have sex with Buddy.

The show kinda makes me miss the 70’s though.

Matthew Broderick looks nothing like his father. Was he adopted?

R80 Watch a first season episode and get back to us. The show indeed got more outlandish as it went on, as shows tend to do.

R79 — 🤣😂so true.

It was my favorite show when it aired

I started watching Family during Portland's big heat wave in June. We're headed into another one this week and this thread has sold me on visiting Pasadena again on Tubi. It can offset mini-marathons of 227 and A Different World on Prime.

I'm starting season 5. Henry Fonda is Doug Lawrence's father! Although Doug's father was previously played by David Wayne (Digger Barnes on Dallas). Willie Lawrence now has extra large/curly hair and a beard. Quinn Cummings now has braces!

[quote] I was not able to find Season 3's episode Echoes of Love

Echoes of Love on Youtube at link below

however, the video is blocked in certain countries

[quote] I'm starting season 5. Henry Fonda is Doug Lawrence's father!

That episode directed by Joanne Woodward

I am 48 and never aware of this show, a little before my time, and started watching it a few weeks ago. Must be some YT algorithm or Jungian group think but I got addicted.

The one with Susan Dey being stalked was good. I was around 3 when this came out, but the early 80's were similar. It's a slow show, with character development, the moral lessons are kinda lame, but the whole milieu is just great.

I'm pleased I'm not losing my mind watching shit like this - netflix sucks and I have a hard time finding anything to watch that isn't super depressing or totally trashy.

[quote] The one with Susan Dey being stalked was good.

That is Meredith Baxter

[quote]Was Pasadena a high crime area in the mid 70s?

Pasadena has a lot of ghetto neighborhoods -- it's not all upscale and ritzy. So there's always been a crime problem.

Just started season 2 and I'm lost.

I thought Jeff & Nancy were getting along great and she was pregnant with their 2nd child.

Now they're divorcing and no mention of a baby aside from Timmy.

Pasadena is shady and rundown north of Interstate 210. Beware. That's why Barnaby Jones had an office south of the interstate at E. Colorado Blvd. and S. Marengo Ave. The address is 234 E. Colorado Blvd. Look it up on Google maps, BJ's Brewhouse is located on the ground floor. Let's meet there, gays, for drinks and then a (long) walk or short drive to the Lawrence's house on Milan Ave.!

227 seasons 1-3 rock!

227 was ok, but I think I watched just to see Hal Williams' crotch. Can you imagine how massive his BBC was? And you know it was!

227 in a Family thread? WTF?

Kate Lawrence raised two lesbian daughters, and took in a boyish waif. What did she do to turn these girls into lesbots?

If the CW can have a sexy reboot of the Waltons, they could reboot Family. Who would play the (much younger) modern cast?

Ten years before they started on Empty Nest, Kristy McNichol and Dinah Manhoff appeared in the same Famiy episode (season 3, ep. 22, "Sleeping Gypsy"). Two years before Family Ties began, Michael J. Fox and Meredith Baxter appeared in the same Family episode (season 5, ep. 9, "Such a Fine Line").

Matthew Broderick was the first choice for the role of Alex Keaton on Family Ties

[quote]Kate Lawrence raised two lesbian daughters, and took in a boyish waif. What did she do to turn these girls into lesbots?

I'm betting it wasn't her but rather Doug Lawrence's pathological need to wander about the family home nude.

The Family reboot should star Julianne Moore as Kate and Timothy Olyphant as a sexy Doug.

Graham Phillips (late of the Good Wife) as Willie, who is addicted to sexting.

Doesn't it hit the ground running? Episode 1: Abortion abortion abortion and Buddy overhears her mother say she regretted having another baby.

I love the slow pace of it; how often the camera lingers on a person listening to someone talking, so you get to see someone truly listening. Such good parenting, with some quirks: Sada's character is a little impatient and sometimes tough-loves ("That's the end of any pep talk you'll get from me" and off she goes to the store). Willie is weird with Buddy (calls her Peaches). Kristy McNichol is a gifted actress. Maybe the best of the bunch.

A groundbreaking show. How the hell did we swing back from this tempo and maturity and candor to 80s schmaltz?

Listen, the two-parter about something happening to the father? The order is wrong, so watch part 2 before part 1.

Oh, and Tubi shows you a recap of the episode before the episode, not before the next episode, so FF to after the theme song to avoid spoilers.

R100 — a sexy reboot of The Waltons??

Meredith Baxter was the first choice for Nancy after Elaine Heilviel left

The role was originally cast with Jane Actman, but ABC President Fred Silverman didn't like her, so he fired Actman and insisted Meredith Baxter be hired,

Oops it should be

Meredith Baxter was NOT the first choice for Nancy after Elaine Heilviel left

R107 You must be new here. There's a whole thread about it. John Sr. (Ben Lawson) has cum gutters now.

Too many lesbian haircuts.

I loved Family, watched all the seasons. My favorite show at the time and it remains in my top 10.. I thought Sada Thompson did a wonderful job portraying complex woman, caught up in differing roles as the ties were changing. Loved the character of Buddy and Kristi McNichols portrayal. i have fond memories of watching it. Maybe I'll try catching it on TUBI.

Yes, Waltons TV movie on CW later this year. Next week I am road tripping through the Appalachians and will visit the original Walton homestead south of Charlottesville, VA. Cool, huh? There's even an "Ike Godsey's Store".

[quote]Yes, Waltons TV movie on CW later this year. Next week I am road tripping through the Appalachians and will visit the original Walton homestead south of Charlottesville, VA. Cool, huh? There's even an "Ike Godsey's Store".

If Ike and the Waltons had a little more in the way of entrepreneurial skills, they could've been the Waltons to start Walmart.

The Family house in South Pasadena last sold for $1.2 million in 1998 and is valued at $4.3-$4.9 mil today!

I just hit the episode in Season 3 when Buddy's hair went from Runaways shag to disco feathered. It's like she grew up overnight.

Kate is a cold fish who clearly resents her two older children for being alive when her favorite accidentally died. Buddy is spared her wrath because she was born after Timmy the First died, and Kate has much more affection for her because she can't be blamed.

That being said, Kate spoils the fuck out of all three of them. Nancy lives in the guest house, gets free food and babysitting whenever she needs it, is always raiding the Lawrence house for anything she needs so she doesn't have to go to the store, and Willie still lives in the house, works when he feels like it, mooches off the family, and was allowed to quit high school. Buddy is pretty much allowed to go where she wants when she wants.

Doug and Kate were pretty much the ideal parents. For the reasons r116 gave. Kate could be a little cold and aloof sometimes, but it’s minor compared to all the kids were afforded. They had it made and they knew it. Plus they take in Annie when her parents are killed. This thread is making me wanna watch the whole series again.

Thanks, R110 and R113.

The original Mary Ellen, Judy Norton, has a YouTube channel where she discusses the show and once in a while will have former cast members on, but I don’t remember her mentioning this though maybe she did.

But she did recently say they might have another cast reunion at the Waltons homestead next year.

The Waltons all looked like they might be related. The Lawrences notsomuch.

Looks like the owners of the Family house are still pimping it out for film and TV shoots.

You can see inside some rooms at the site below. Looks like real-life Kate talked real-life Doug into a kitchen expansion; I don't love it. But the grounds are beautiful.

One small thing I liked about the show was that the interiors actually matched the house exterior shown. That never happens.

Willie had an extremely hairy bush and butt. Can you imagine the heavenly masculine aroma emanating from his secret places?

When did we ever see his bush and butt?

Gary Frank looked like the type that would be trim or peach fuzz. Down there.

It was the episode when Willie and Jeff showered after playing squash at the club. The first full-frontal male nude scene on network TV.

I think we saw Willie in all his hirsute glory in the episode where his friend comes out. Or am I imagining that?

Willie never showed skin. He's at his hottest in the final season (#5). Sexy beard. Looks especially manly. Mmmmm! In season 4 he had a job writing for a game show called The Dame Show (classy name, eh?). Not sure if he's still doing that in season 5; he seems to be a writer for random (non-specified) entities. Just watched the episode with Michael J. Fox but, sadly, he doesn't have any scenes with his future TV mom Meredith. Michael plays a 14-year-old who has a crush on...on...wait for it...KATE!!!

Gary Frank was Teen magazine's Hunk of the Month.

R125, Willie had his shirt off a few times in the first couple seasons, usually in scenes where he was in bed with someone. He even had a shirtless scene in Season 3. He has a nice dusting of fuzz on his chest and stomach.

Didn't he marry one of the producers of Family?

Audrey (Buddy's BFF) got into Cornell!

Gary Frank looked like an end stage Steve Rubell.

Guest stars in season 5 include DL faves Dominique Dunne, Dana Hill, and Dana Plato. The three Ds...all died young. 😥😪😭

[quote]Just started season 2 and I'm lost. I thought Jeff & Nancy were getting along great and she was pregnant with their 2nd child. Now they're divorcing and no mention of a baby aside from Timmy.

Jeff and the Lawrences decided they would prefer a cuter, fetus-free wife and daughter, so they replaced her with a menstruating blonde.

Nancy being pregnant was a pilot-only thing. They also added Dead Timmy after the pilot. Which was dumb. They should've had a younger fourth child running around from the beginning, so Annie could've been avoided when Buddy aged into an older teen. Plus, two male and two female children would've been a nice balance.

[quote] They should've had a younger fourth child running around from the beginning

Please, Kate was lucky enough she was still producing eggs when Buddy was conceived. I'm surprised she didn't come out autistic.

r115, that is bizarre. I could have sworn that house was resold just a couple of years ago, a lot more recently than 1998 at any rate.

Does anyone remember the similar "James at 15/16"? It starred Lance Kerwin and aired for two seasons in the late 70's.

Forgot to add the link. Kim Richards was also on this show

[quote]Does anyone remember the similar "James at 15/16"?

I certainly do.

Timmy's death was actually Buddy's fault. She begged to come along on the boys fishing trip and was fooling around in the boat which caused it to overturn.

R137, is that true? I'll have to rewatch season 1. Was Timmy older than Nancy?

That was in an early episode. Timmy was between Willie and Buddy. In another episode Kate visits Timmy's grave and the dates are 1961-1971.

Family dealt with real life in the 70s - other examples of this kind were Edith Bunker nearly getting raped and Maude getting an abortion.

...and Fonzie jumping a shark.

Kristy McNichol was America's favorite diesel little sister in the 1970s.

What made it both great and strange was Sada Thompson's Kate. She was so well written--she clearly loved her kids, but she also could be cold sometimes and they and she knew it. She and James Broderick were SO patrician, yet all three of their kids were so into doing their own thing. All the other characters were pretty much flat stereotypes, but hers was really three-dimensional.

I thought Kate calling Buddy "Lizzie Tish," besides being a take on "Letitia" (Buddy's real name), was a weird way of acknowledging she was a lezzie.

[quote]Please, Kate was lucky enough she was still producing eggs when Buddy was conceived.

Kate was fertile as fuck!

She got knocked up in the final season, when Sada Thompson was 53!

I believe that Family was inspired by An American Family, though Willie wasn't exactly Lance Loud.

Sada just had to know that once Kristy got older those lips would taste cooch.

I watched the episode last night where Willie is making a documentary on the family. Kate references the Louds at the dinner table and how the show tore the family apart.

R109 Meredith was very Pasadena.

....in fact, Meredith was born in South Pasadena!

Is Pasadena a gathering place for lesbians?

[quote] I thought Kate calling Buddy "Lizzie Tish," besides being a take on "Letitia" (Buddy's real name), was a weird way of acknowledging she was a lezzie.

Kate called her Tizzy-Lish (not Lizzie Tish) because that was how Buddy pronounced it when she was little.

The fact that Buddy had three affectionate nicknames made perfect sense because she was the baby of the family.

Re: the real Lawrence house being worth $4 million+ today, there's an episode (I think in season two) in which they are thinking of selling the family time and the realtor says she could get them $90,000 for it, to which Kate and Doug react with shock and disbelief.

To clarify the above, they don't think it could possibly be worth so much money.

In OP’s picture, Kristy is the only one smiling.

Richard Thomas was sex on two legs back in the day.

Why didn't he go on to a bigger career? He seemed destined for one.

r150 Yes.

Didn't Brothers & Sisters take in Pasadena?

[quote] Why didn't he go on to a bigger career?

I think Richard Thomas got stereotyped in the John Boy role. He couldn’t be cast as anything other than the intellectual staid older brother. His transition from teenager to adult male was difficult career wise. Some were lucky with their transitions (Jodie Foster, Rick Schroeder, Ron Howard) and some were not (Eve Plumb, McCauley Culkin).

Also, he had that disgusting blotch on his face.

I vaguely remember Family. Does anyone remember the specific episode where Buddy acted butch and Willie acted super-sensitive about something, and the mother was just cold and humorless about the entire situation?

Plus Howard and Foster were smart enough to branch out into directing. Foster says now directing is where her heart lies. Schroeder has mostly done B level tv shows and movies. Lonesome Dove and NYPD Blue being the exception .

My stepmother was fascinated with this show. She had been a single working mother for years (she had had an illegitimate baby at age 18), so she really was interested in seeing Nancy's problems. But she also was obsessed with what today we would call Kate's privilege. "What does she possibly do all day?" my stepmother would say, "Willie and Nancy are grown! Buddy's old enough to pick up after herself! It'll take an hour to dust, and then she's done for the day!" She liked it when they showed Kate playing the piano or doing something else that was a leisure activity, but she would be scornful when they'd show Kate doing some random housework task like hosing down the garbage cans ("Well, that's going to take her all of five minutes, tops!"). She approved when Kate went back to school for her degree later in the show's run, though.

I realized years later this was my stepmother's covert (and maybe even unconscious) way of criticizing my own mom, who had been a well-to-do suburban housewife and hadn't had to work outside of the home, and didn't until just before she and my father divorced. I think my stepmother was resentful but fascinated that my mother had lived what she perceived to be a life of leisure. My stepmother was too polite ever to criticize my mother to my face.

I'm up to the episode in season 3 where Buddy's best friend from season 1, Laura, comes back for a visit and is revealed to be an alcoholic. Laura was played by Kim Richards in Season 1 and replaced in Season 3 by an actress who looked nothing like her and was 23, 9 years older than Richards (and 7 years older than McNichol, who was supposed to be her same age).

Making a guest return must have been a scheduling conflict with Hello Larry.

No, Hello, Larry wasn't yet in existence. I think it could have been Return From Witch Mountain. But also, Richards was only 13 when the episode shout and would not have been believable as a 15 year old.

Did Willie call Buddy Peaches because of her impossibly perky breastlets?

Wait for Netflix to revive it, only everyone is a vampire/zombie/robot.

Why didn't the actress who played Audrey Pfieffer do more? I imagine it came down to the wire between her and Cherie Curie for that role in Foxes.

My friend told me Audrey was in the Dont Come Around Here No More video by Tom Petty. I thought he was lying to me but it’s really her. She looks quite different without her glasses.

Season 5: Kate is pregnant! She's not sure she wants to have the baby. She visits her dead son's (Timmy) grave. Very sad.

Louise Foley looks completely different in the TP video. She was rather homely in Family, but she was very attractive in the video. And they sure didn't shoot her in a very flattering manner. All her close ups are with a wide angle, almost fish eye lens and she still manages to look good.

When it was first broadcast, I loved Family and never missed it. But now, not so much. It seems slow moving, preachy in an understated way, and all of the characters -- from slacker Willie to Kate with that patented strained and worried look -- become insufferable after a while. (Not to even mention Annie. Or nose-in-the-air Nancy.)

I'd say Lou Grant -- much the same sort of topical drama with an office "family" substituting for the Lawrences -- wears much better. Lou, Mrs. Pynchon, Charlie Hume et al. come across as more real and down to earth than the Pasadena Lawrences. Yes, even Mrs. Pynchon, who had a business to run and salaries to pay. Can't recall the Lawrences ever being much concerned about money.

They did seem pretty well off. Their house was modest, but they also supported three children (two of them well into their adulthood), then a fourth a child, and only on Doug's salary as an attorney for seemed to be a fairly small law firm that handled patent law (yet that never stopped Doug from being a legal expert on EVERY law matter that floated his way).

Breaking news: Helen Hunt returns for one episode in season 5.

I'm amazed people remember so much from this show. It seemed slow moving and earnest, sort of a cross between "Eight is Enough" and the Louds.

I'm watching for the first time and I don't find it slow moving at all.

Wasn’t Kate employed as a substitute or permanent teacher starting with the Guttenberg episode? Nancy was a lawyer. Willie started as a slacker but was making a living as a writer by series end. I’m sure they all contributed to the household in someway money wise.

How did Nancy go from a young mom of a baby/toddler to Elyse Keating’s middle aged mom of teenagers in just 2 years?

Because both she and Michael Gross were barely 35 when they started on Family Ties, which was really a shade too young to be the parents of teenagers. But then, the timeline was all screwed up on that show anyway. The whole premise was that hippies were raising conservative kids, but when the show premiered in 1982, Alex was 17. So at age 18 in 1965, they had their first child. Elyse went to college for architecture and then they had another kid and then they became hippies? Seems unlikely.

Kate never enjoyed sex. In fact, Kate and Doug stopped having sex soon after Leticia was born. She was so distant and cold that Doug slept in the guest bedroom nearly every night, he'd usually wait until everyone in the house had gone to bed to try to keep the illusion that he was in a loving marriage. However, the children had known for some time. She could be warm and caring when the occasion called for it but those episodes were so brief one usually thought they had imagined it. If you thought it through, you'd conclude that she could be Medea. It wasn't hard to imagine her spiking her meals with slow acting, hard to detect poisons and finely ground glass.

Kate dreamed for the day when she would be alone. She would pass the time imagining her being the sole occupant of that enormous house, not having to speak to anyone, not having to smile, and not having to pretend to love.

I like to watch a few of these before/while fixing dinner. They really fit late afternoon on a hot day.

Sada's mother (Hattie?) is dying. I think I'm still in S1, it's still the first Nancy.

Why did 'dying old people' always mean somber harmonica music? Why the harmonica?

If Kate didn't want to fuck Doug anymore, why did she get so upset at the thought of Annie Laurie straddling Doug's prodigious member?

Was it because Annie Laurie was played by DL cunt Linda Lavin? Would Kate have approved if Doug wanted to fuck Beth Howland instead?

She would have suspected something once she started finding straws all over the place. Under the bed, behind the dresser.

R181 Would YOU want Doug's dick inside you after it had been in Linda Lavin?

I knew it would end the first time Annie Laurie scatted.

Imagine your husband cheating on you with LINDA LAVIN (!)

The indignity.

Linda was a hot vixen. Doug should be so lucky.

I think if I hear Willie call his sister Peaches one more time, I'm gonna kick him in the cunt bone.

all I have to say is that Aaron used the same music for 'night mother.

I'm on the very last episode. The show had closure. A good conclusion. I'm sad it's over. So good. Apparently a Family reunion TV movie was planned for 1987ish, about Kate remarrying after the death of Doug (who died in real life in 1982). I wonder why the movie didn't happen.

I can’t believe it’s now streaming digitally, I’ve bought crappy bootleg DVDs from fucking Pakistan or somewhere and trying to get through the awful quality. Seasons 1 and 2 came out 15 f’ing years ago and nothing since. I’m rewatching season 2 now. Willie was kind of a lazy deadbeat.

[quote] . I wonder why the movie didn't happen.

There was a writer or directors strike, so the film was put on the backburner and never saw fruition.

[quote] I can’t believe it’s now streaming digitally,

All seasons have been on YouTube for years, sorry you wasted your money

I actually saw those bootlegs for sale online. Yes, from Pakistan! LMAO! They were sooooo expensive, like $100 per season. Poor R190, literally.

[quote] They were sooooo expensive, like $100 per season. Poor [R190], literally.

Just download it off YouTube - all episodes are online except for one.

[quote] There was a writer or directors strike, so the film was put on the backburner and never saw fruition.

Mmm, nope. Gary Frank said that Meredith Baxter-Birney was the reason it didn't go forward. Everyone else was on board to reunite for Kate's remarriage, but MBB hated the script. Didn't think it was funny enough. They rewrote it for her, but then she said the role wasn't large enough. At the time, MBB was the big draw because of Family Ties, so if she wasn't in, the project was dead.

[quote] Mmm, nope. Gary Frank said that Meredith Baxter-Birney was the reason it didn't go forward. Everyone else was on board to reunite for Kate's remarriage, but MBB hated the script. Didn't think it was funny enough. They rewrote it for her, but then she said the role wasn't large enough. At the time, MBB was the big draw because of Family Ties, so if she wasn't in, the project was dead.

Despite what Gary Frank, that is not true. MBB signed a contract, and ABC had announced the project in its fall line-up of TV-movies at the "Up Fronts" - but then the directors strike happened, and it was put on the backburner, and didn't get off the ground due to conflicting schedules when the strike ended.

I think Gary Frank said that to save face as at that point MBB was taking ANY project, just to have some distance from her abusive husband David Birney,

He said it while she was still on Family Ties.

[quote] He said it while she was still on Family Ties.

Yes and MBB & Kirsty McNichol was signed to do the film during the summer hiatus of their respective sitcoms - then the directors strike happened, which shut down production of all TV Movies. When the strike ended, everyone went back to their regular series and the film was put on the back burner,

Was it a writer's strike or a director's strike, R197? Your story changes every time you squat and take a shit in this thread. i think I'll back Gary Frank as knowing a little more than you do.

Buddy was smitten with Dominique Dunne in their scene together.

Who was cast to play the new husband?

R198 it was the writers strike

[quote] i think I'll back Gary Frank as knowing a little more than you do.

So it is just a coincidence that the movie was put on hiatus during a writers strike - shutting down ALL TV movies

I thought Willy was gay when he Butte Vances from Dominique Dunne

Rebuked advances

The script was already written AND re-written by the time the writer's strike happened. There would have been no reason for them to not shoot the movie during the strike. The strike only affected things being written during the strike.

You wanna keep pushing it or are you done?

[quote]Was it because Annie Laurie was played by DL cunt Linda Lavin? Would Kate have approved if Doug wanted to fuck Beth Howland instead?

Can you imagine if it had been Bonnie Franklin?

[quote] The script was already written AND re-written by the time the writer's strike happened. There would have been no reason for them to not shoot the movie during the strike. The strike only affected things being written during the strike. You wanna keep pushing it or are you done?

It was rewritten AFTER the strike.

Because it was announced at the 1988 Up Fronts by ABC as a TV-Movie - They would NOT have done that if it wasn't a go.

Then the writers strike happened.

R204 = when rude gays attack!

It was listed in TV Guides Fall Preview issue. I was bummed when it didn't happen.

Thank you R208

Buck would never have let Timmy drown.

Were any of the cast members ever on Circus of the Stars? Doing what?

It was the older lesbian's fault there was no reunion.

Gary Frank was not happy and went on the record.

R212 what Gary Frank says makes no sense

First he says MBB turned it down because it wasn't "funny" enough. "Family" is not a comedy. so why would MBB say it's not funny enough, as this is a drama.

Then he says the role wasn't big enough. There is reason, MBB was billed "and Meredith Baxter" at the end as her part was a supporting role. Why would that change now? Yes she was a big star at the time on Family Ties, but Family was never "The Nancy Maitland Show"

Finally the character of Nancy wasn't in every episode, many weeks went by and we didn't see her. So if her part was so small, why not just write her out entirely and focus on the other cast. Although MBB was the star of the number one show at the time (Family Ties) I don't her participation was make or break for a reunion movie to go forward - as Nancy was only in HALF of the episodes of "Family"

I think Gary Frank is looking for a scapegoat and just chose the biggest star on TV at that moment, MBB

I remember reading they were going to do a reunion too and being let down when it didn’t happen, but I was much younger. I think now it was good it didn’t happen. Broderick was a big part of the show. It was about HIS and Sada’s family. The reunion would’ve been Kate asking the kids if they were cool with her new husband, some flashbacks to the original, and the exchanging of vows. Not much point to it. I like the last episode of the show too with Buddy and Doug having their little talk. It’s fitting it ended on Buddy and her leaving home soon.

Today the actors playing the parents would be cast as grandparents.

[quote]Can you imagine if it had been Bonnie Franklin?

Hold me, Doug-- I'm scared!

Aaron Spelling produced a very special crossover vacation episode called "The Family Love Boat", with Kate having a tortured May-December romance with Gopher; Buddy and Little Vicki explicitly exploring scissoring in a lifeboat; and Doug and Julie doing lines, naked at dawn, on the Lido Deck, but it was deemed far too controversial to air.

Annie gets the very last line on the show but the very last scene is of Doug and Kate (looking at each other, frozen).

R218 true. I really don’t count tag scenes though.

Will they ever do a Bridget Loves Birney reboot? Would it be titled Bridget Loves Beaver?

[quote] There would have been no reason for them to not shoot the movie during the strike.

Many times when one union goes on strike, the other unions will stop production in solidarity. The actors union did this on Broadway several years ago. One of the other unions went on strike, maybe the stagehands, and the actors refused to perform.

The cast should reunite and make a movie centered around Kate's funeral. Only Doug and Kate are dead. The rest of the cast lives on!

They should just reboot it with Timmy Maitland, who'd be about 46 now, and his wife and their kids.

In the same house. It doesn't work without the house.

Grandma Dyke Nancy and Uncle Willie could stop by. Kristy McNichol is retired.

Interesting, in the closing credits for Family, it says the theme was written by John Rubenstein. Is this the same John Rubenstein who played Jeff on the show?

Yes, he wrote the theme and also played Jeff.

He popped up on Law & Order SVU as a judge and I think he got shot right in the courtroom.

R223, not a bad idea.

same theme; same opening. Pictures on the piano.

Also, Timmy has a half-adopted sister Annie Cooper Lawrence (Quinn Cummings).

there were two other Nancys they could have cast instead if MBB aka Princess Perfect was too above it all.

I was available

[quote] Your story changes every time you squat and take a shit in this thread.

How vivid...

there was a second nancy but she never aired, I believe.

I read in TV Guide when I was a kid Meredith Baxter Birney shooting a scene with James Broderick and he's being a supportive dad and during down time he points to a shed at the house and says to her: "That's where we keep the other Nancys."

[quote]Also, Timmy has a half-adopted sister Annie Cooper Lawrence (Quinn Cummings).

She would qualify more as an aunt, since Doug and Kate acted as Annie's "parents."

[quote] Because it was announced at the 1988 Up Fronts by ABC as a TV-Movie - They would NOT have done that if it wasn't a go. Then the writers strike happened.

Except the up-fronts happened two and a half months after the writer's strike had already begun, and the strike was over by August.

And no, R221, that isn't how it usually happens with film and television strikes (though there is precedent). Any film/television creative and union member will tell you that when a writer's strike is looming, writers bust their asses to get their work done so that it CAN be produced during said strike.

R224 And son of the pianist Arthur Rubenstein.

Part 1 of disco queen

Part 2 of disco queen

R230 MBB was the second Nancy. The first was Elayne Heilveil in the original miniseries. Look at episode one on Tubi.

But really, did MBB have that much clout because of Family Ties? Surely the 30 seconds she, Michael Gross and Tina Yothers were visible onscreen at the beginning of every episode before exiting to 'check on Andy' wasn't really why people were tuning in.

[quote]Would it be titled Bridget Loves Beaver?

I'm pretty sure Jerry Mathers is available.

R17, I just watched the episode with Willie’s gay friend last night on Tubi. One thing I noticed was a living room scene where Willie walked past the piano (or is it a table?) on which all the family photos shown in the opening credits are displayed. Meredith Baxter’s photo is not among them, and though it’s shot from a distance, there looks to be a photo of Jane Actman there instead.

OP, I love your descriptions of the actors/actresses.

Like R3...loved the gay friend episode.

Only on DL would there be a protracted and hotly debated disagreement over why a Family reunion TV movie didn't happen.

There was a similar thread a few days ago where two people fought over whether Teri Austin's Jill Bennett drove or flew from San Francisco to attack Valene in the 1987-88 season finale of Knots Landing.

I saw that and even attempted to defuse it by linking to IMDb's summary, which mentioned she flew to LA but had to drive back to SF. Astoundingly, the argument continued!

Halfway through season 2 and while I like Meredith Bastard Bernie as Nancy, I think I prefer Elaine Heilhitler.

Did the Nancy in the pilot have a cold sore on her lip, or was that a beauty mark?

I wish the show had been set in the Main Line suburbs of Philadelphia as initially planned. I think Mike Nichols changed the setting to South Pasadena because outdoor shooting would not have been possible year-round in PA. It would have been funny to see the WASPy Lawrences interact with blacks and Jews, if only on the occasional SEPTA train.

R146, the Loud family was mentioned by the son in Family! Remember when he was making a film and decided to film his family? He mentioned it would be like American Family.

Watching Family and rewatching Little Darlings, I am reminded of how good Kristi McNichol is. I wonder what project she'd come out of retirement for. She's so natural and funny.

Should I worry that I enjoy Kate's cold cuntiness as much as I do?

Is there a British show that parallels “Family”?

r246 In 1990, Pasadena was almost 20% black.

FYI: It's spelled "Rubinstein".

That's nice, R251, but South Pasadena was about 3% black in 2010. In 1976 the city sealed off road access to the neighboring town of El Sereno (ostensibly a temporary measure to deter crime, but the border is still closed). In 1979 the city closed down a public pool rather than let blacks and mexicans use it.

r253 1. "Family" didn't take place in 2010

2. Even though it was filmed at a house in So. Pas., it was SET in Pasadena.

Poor Nancy #1 was stuck in bad TV movies after being dumped from Family, including this 1984 gem with DL faves Barbara Cooper, Thelma's husband on Good Times, hot David Morse, and Patricia Neal! OMFG!

Family always had really good Christmas episodes. I just watched the one from season 2 where Doug’s father brought his new younger girlfriend over for Christmas. Doug found out she was an ex jazz singer with a sketchy, mafia past. Drama ensued and Kate looked displeased the entire episode.

[quote]Kate looked displeased the entire episode

That was her go to emotion.

Kate seemed to have a whole new wardrobe every season (apparently because she kept packing on the pounds).

I think the only piece I've seen make a cross-season appearance is the caftan she'd wear when serving breakfast, or at night while sipping a cocktail and looking concernedly at Buddy.

Season 1. Different theme music. Doug has darkish hair (dyed). Kristy looks VERY young (and her name is spelled "Kristie" in the credits). Willie does not yet have clown hair. He says he's 17 but he looks 27. Nancy #1 is dark-haired and into wearing "Rhoda" headwraps. Nobody wears seat belts in cars. Kate says she's 46 and has been married for 26 years. Very sad when the Lawrences talk about dead Timmy (Timmy #1). Guest stars include Kim Richards, Mildred Natwick, and John Zaremba (from "The Time Tunnel"). Excellent writing.

This was my favorite opening of the show. Kate waving Doug goodbye. Nancy probably at work. Buddy at school. Willie probably sleeping his lazy self in. A few quiet moments with no one up her ass, savoring a nice cup of coffee before dealing with life’s daily problems.

R259, I lost half a mouthful of iced tea laughing at your summary. Thank you!

OMG, Charles Lane guests in season 1 as a doctor. As soon as I heard his voice I thought of him trying to shut down the Cannonball (train) on Petticoat Junction.

[quote]Kate looked displeased the entire episode.

Kate always looked displeased. I think she was chronically constipated.

Kate was the inspiration for Correctol.

[quote] Kate seemed to have a whole new wardrobe every season (apparently because she kept packing on the pounds).

Well, remember they were pretty well off, and since Willie didn't even go to college or university, they had only had to send Nancy through when the show began. So they had tons of dough and liked spending it on covering Kate's large frame.

[quote] Nobody wears seat belts in cars.

People just didn't until it was mandated by law in the early 80s. By that time "Family" has been canceled.

[quote] Very sad when the Lawrences talk about dead Timmy (Timmy #1).

I wonder if between themselves their conversation at the dinner table went like this.

KATE: "I was thinking this morning about Timmy..."

DOUG: "Live Timmy, or Dead Timmy?"

KATE: "Oh, Live Timmy!"

I remember Doug sarcastically telling Kate at breakfast, "Either lose the caftan or move to Palm Springs."

I remember in one episode Kate opened her closet and there were like five pieces hanging in it.

I thought, as if! She owns half of Bullock's wrap dress department, many with tonally matching coats! They all must have been at the cleaners.

Back then, many cars only had seatbelts that went around your waist, not your chest/shoulder. For all we know, Kate wore a seatbelt but it was hidden by her gunt.

[quote] Was Pasadena a high crime area in the mid 70s?

Everywhere was a high crime area in the mid-late 70s. Kind of like now.

Fashion crime wave rocks Pasadena.

You can just tell that latent Willie is silently judging momma's taste.

What is the name for that neckline Kate is wearing in R272? The puckering with the little tie?

It's not a good look under ... whatever she's doing there. But it pops up on dresses in '70s shows, sometimes with a keyhole cutout under the tie, and it's quite flattering!

What is it called?

That's not Willie, R272.

I think it's hottie Joseph Bottoms, who guest-starred as a grifter in the episode "Friend of the Family."

Peasant blouse with a drawstring neck.

Well close enough. Besides, Joseph and Sam Bottoms always felt like false advertising to me.

Willie is pretty cute except for the curly hair.

Sada had an aloof warmth.

Oh dear. Is this really Gary Frank today?

He looks like John Marley.

John Marley, awesome actor!

Did they ever get any good stories out of adding Annie? She was a gifted and talented child, which made her somewhat dreary. I remember on story where she was being teased and bullied at her school, and so she kept trying to stay home, and then finally she had to make a big speech to her class that she was going to come to class and not retreat into her home like her literary heroine Emily Dickinson. I thought that would have made her even more hated in real life.

FAMILY was an extraordinary show, with some of the finest writing and playing to ever grace television. What it offered that distinguished it from the usual tv dreck, then as now, was FEELING. There are episodes that are unbearably poignant and emotionally true, which inevitably found its voice in a monologue delivered by Sada Thompson with the utmost intelligence, sensitivity and depth. And yet Kate wasn't afraid to lower the boom if someone's behavior didn't come up to her standards, which would be unthinkable in today's morally relativistic society. That's what made her character so remarkable and admirable, even though she herself admitted that she could be "mean" and too hard on everyone around her. Though I've seen all the episodes over the years more than once, I binge-watched the entire series recently. Sure, there were occasional tv cliches and too many social issues and unearned happy endings and the quality of writing definitely fell off in the last two seasons. But, oh, the glory when it worked! Kate's trip to the cemetery to visit her son's grave; Zeke's speech about strawberries; Kate's speech to the jury about "reasonable doubt"; her support of Nancy even as she calls her on the carpet for romantic dalliances ("You are going to be....you are...."); her frustration over women's responsibilities ("Sometimes a woman just wants OUT!"). And this doesn't even take into account James Broderick's rock-solid performance (the spine of the show, like Michael York in CABARET) or Ms. McNichols uncanny natural ability and charm or Gary Frank's subtle humor andsexiness....I could go on and on.

As far as the episode with Michael J. Fox goes, their final extended scene is absolutely hilarious, as befitting the absurd situation of their relationship.

Willie was such a hang dog, always had ill-fitting clothes. Would it have killed him to wear a fucking belt?

No one wears seat belts. No screens in the windows of the Lawrence house. As in every single TV show of the '60s, '70s, and '80s, Buddy's high school has a Sadie Hawkins dance. I think there were Sadie Hawkins dances on Little House on the Prairie, Happy Days, The Facts of Life, Eight is Enough, Welcome Back Kotter, you name it! My schools never ever had Sadie Hawkins dances. Anyone here ever had such dances when you were gaylings??! WTF!

[quote]No screens in the windows of the Lawrence house.

I noticed this too. All those French doors constantly ajar and characters moodily staring out their open bedroom windows.

Aren't mosquitoes a thing in LA?

R287, or home invaders? I kept thinking about Polly Klaas. 😥

It's to the show's credit they didn't SORAS Timmy. Although, weirdly, they seemed to do the opposite.

If Timmy was several months old in the first season (spring 1976), he would have been an active kindergartener, talking and running around and causing trouble in season 5. Yet the kid was portrayed as a mute sprog 'til the end.

I thought Timmy drowned?

Live Timmy, not Dead Timmy.

Live Timmy was about 1 in the first season. Dead Timmy was -5.

What?

Timmy Lawrence ("Dead Timmy"), Kate and Doug's son, brother to Nancy, Willie and Buddy, died five years before the series began, at the age of 10.

Timmy Maitland ("Live Timmy"), Nancy's son named in tribute to Dead Timmy, was an infant when the series began.

If the series were rebooted today, Dead Timmy would be the narrator of the series and follow the family around to comment on the action, and only Live Timmy could see him.

Sometimes I hate modern TV.

Give me a basic, bread-and-butter family drama occasionally, FFS.

R231, good cactch, yes indeed and what a wise aunt Annie Cooper Lawrence would be!

[quote] My schools never ever had Sadie Hawkins dances. Anyone here ever had such dances when you were gaylings??!

No, but I went to an all boy school so we were never busy with girls. Loved it.

[quote]There are episodes that are unbearably poignant and emotionally true, which inevitably found its voice in a monologue delivered by Sada Thompson with the utmost intelligence, sensitivity and depth.

Bullshit, R284. SaDAH read her lines as if she were wearing a crown.

And, by the way, R284?

[quote]But, oh, the glory when it worked!

MARY!

R297 I'd say she read her lines like she was weighed down with the unbearably heavy anchor of motherhood.

My favorite line of Kate's is still her one-off at breakfast as Willie is complaining about jury duty or some such problem and Kate gets up from the table and says, 'Talk to me when you've had a yeast infection'.

And all that dragging Dead Timmy’s ghost everywhere. R298.

Remember when Kate went looking at those expensive condos downtown and got herself locked in? The moral lesson of that episode should have been nosy old biddies shouldn’t try to rise above their socio-economic status in life. Be grateful for what you have, Kate.

—Olivia Walton watching her house burn down because John-Boy really was smoking up there.

RE30 Whitney Blake didn't give a bad performance, I don't know what you all are on about. ...I used to come in when my mom was watching this show, and I would sit down and start watching it and...I HATED IT. For some reason I never bought that James Broderick and Sada Thompson could ever have been a couple in real life. I never once could get past this. I didn't really identify with this family, I wouldn't have wanted to go camping with them, they were not exactly a fun group. And so pretentious.

[quote]My schools never ever had Sadie Hawkins dances. Anyone here ever had such dances when you were gaylings??! WTF!

R286 My high school had them once a year, they didn't call them Sadie Hawkins dances but the girls asked the boys. It was a fall semi-formal.

Called a Tolo dance by my recollection.

[quote] I didn't really identify with this family, I wouldn't have wanted to go camping with them, they were not exactly a fun group.

The Lawrences camping?? No, I don't see that happening...unless they brought their liquor cart along.

Willie ( certainly in the early episodes) was lazy. If I had spent all do sitting around the house doing nothing my father would have said- WHY DON’T YOU GET OFF YOUR FUCKIN ASS AND GET A JOB!

Doug and Kate did seem to have a problem with kicking out their kids. The two oldest in their twenties needed to be out on their own. But then, Eight is Enough did the same thing: "kids" living at home well into their thirties.

R306 that was part of what made the show so good. It would’ve been easy to have both Willie and Nancy in professional jobs. They went that route with Nancy. But many have families have where one of the kids is a fuck up and slacker, even if the family has money. Willie eventually became a writer, but still didn’t move to his own place. Of course, they had to have the family together on the show under one roof, just like the Ewings on Dallas when in a normal world they all would’ve moved out.

the house on DALLAS was actually pretty small for all those people.

in real life, it's practically tiny all things considered

It's a lovely series, with unexpected dialogue, very few moments resolved with cliches. Buddy's character was encouraged to think for herself. I wish I could watch it without the Tubi ads.

The other other series it reminds me of is Northern Exposure, and the film it reminds me of is what influenced Northern Exposure: Local Hero.

Have to say that the initial episodes at least have been beautifully restored to HD. Didn't realize that so much was lost on those old TV sets.

i thought that they mapped out the family dynamics pretty believably. Willie was the scapegoat, Nancy was the princess who was a daddy's girl and Buddy was the baby.

Season 2. New Nancy. New opening theme. I love the opening credits showing the family members' photos. Love John Rubinstein and his great big hair. David Hedison ("Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea", "The Fly") guests as Nancy's former professor (remember that David turned down the role of Mike Brady). The Lawrences have a new housekeeper (OMG, why?) who was Ralph the carpenter on Green Acres. Buddy has a new job at a bakery for $2.50 an hour (that seems like a lot for 1976). Annoyingly, Buddy is upset that Nancy wants to divorce Jeff because she (Buddy) doesn't want Timmy to "grow up without a father and become homosexual". WTF!

Has there been such a big change in American class structure over the past 40 years? At the time the Lawrences seemed middle-class aspirational: where we all wanted to be. But now, that life -- a housekeeper, even! -- seems so out of reach for most, it's hard to genuinely think of it as aspirational.

As well, they're snobbish in their own way -- no camping trips or even tailgate parties for the Lawrences -- and that's not really in tune with modern American culture.

[quote] At the time the Lawrences seemed middle-class aspirational: where we all wanted to be.

It was inspirational fiction. Jimmy Carter became POTUS and screwed up American life. You didn’t see Doug Lawrence waiting in a gas line and only getting gas on odd or even days. Like Mary Tyler Moore, you didn’t see Miss Kate looking disgusted at the price of meat.

The first gas crisis was in 1973. You wanna blame Carter for that?

The federal minimum wage in 1976 was $2.30 per hour, so Buddy's wage isn't lavish. Still, it's equivalent to $11.55 per hour now, which is why the minimum wage needs to be raised, like yesterday.

Don't get used to the housekeeper: she's only in one or two episodes.

So if Queen Kate had a housekeeper, what did she do all day?

R317 That only means the producers were cheap, not the Lawrences. Kate had help around the house, even if you didn't see the housekeeper on screen.

Does anybody remember an episode where Nancy has a friend that is I believe an alcoholic? One of my friends was on family and played Nancy's friend. Her name is Mo Malone but when I looked for her on all the cast she was not listed in any of the episodes. There is another woman listed under the name Malone And I think they mixed up the names. I would love to find that episode.

R320, Buddy has an alcoholic friend in season 3. Are you confusing the two Lawrence daughters?

Doug's sister also became an alcoholic in one episode.. I'd be surprised if they went to that well a third time with Nancy.

[quote] the house on DALLAS was actually pretty small for all those people.

Funny, I was just thinking about that the other day. Acres upon acres of land, and you have like what, 10 people crammed into a 4 or 5 bedroom house? I know Miss Ellie wanted everyone close but God damn it you old biddy, tell Jock to get off his cheap ass and get an annex built! No wonder Sue Ellen drank, I could never love with my whole family in anything less than 10,000 sq feet.

Southfork was like the TARDIS: it was much much bigger on the inside than on the outside.

[quote] So if Queen Kate had a housekeeper, what did she do all day?

Pass judgment and gas.

[quote] Jimmy Carter became POTUS and screwed up American life. You didn’t see Doug Lawrence waiting in a gas line and only getting gas on odd or even days. Like Mary Tyler Moore, you didn’t see Miss Kate looking disgusted at the price of meat.

Inflation was a feature of the Ford Administration much more than of the Carter Administration--same with the energy crisis.

[quote] I'd be surprised if they went to that well a third time with Nancy.

Oh honey, no. The Lawrence lushes do not do well drinks. It's top shelf only for them.

[quote] Inflation was a feature of the Ford Administration much more than of the Carter Administration--same with the energy crisis.

Everybody - can we please contain our politically fueled animus to the current decade. One civil war at a time, please.

[quoth] Sada had an aloof warmth.

I think you mistyped hoof.

Nobody knows just how many men and women Sada Thompson fucked in order to make it to the top.

Quinn honey, I'm guessing one. The only one she could actually outrun and catch.

I would guess Sada got the role by promising NOT to fuck Aaron Spelling.

R314- Doug Lawrence was a successful attorney with his own practice and they had a maid. The Lawrences were CLEARLY UPPER middle class.

And the winner is...

In one episode Doug came home sick from work in the mid-morning and found Kate lying on the sofa, surrounded by empty beer cans and chocolate boxes, drunkenly screaming out Showcase Showdown bids while watching "The Price is Right". Before proceeding upstairs, he rhetorically asked her, "Have you no dignity?"

[quote]Whitney was also the co-creator and writer of the sitcom "One Day at a Time."

[quote]...which she developed with the intention of starring in it, but they didn't want her. Which is why her daughter had to get her a guest shot on Family.

So we have Whitney Blake to thank for Bonnie Franklin as Ann Romano?

Sada Thompson was a poor man’s Maureen Stapleton.

[quote]So if Queen Kate had a housekeeper, what did she do all day?

Disapproved of everyone and everything she saw, R318.

Kate reminds me of Kay, the joyless housekeeper who replaced Alice on the Brady Bunch.

I just watched the episode with Leif Garrett. How that kid ever got to be a teen idol is beyond me. He's not cute, has no personality and can't dance to save his life.

If they did a reboot Kate would be an anorexic blonde with fake tits.

R340- He looked like a HOT chick not a good looking guy.

[quote]R340 - He looked like a HOT chick not a good looking guy.

Especially with that Farrah Fawcett hairdo.

[quote] Sada Thompson was a poor man’s Maureen Stapleton.

No dear, Maureen Stapleton was a poor man's Maureen Stapleton. She was a boozy fishwife.

Kate could be featured on The Real Housewives of Pasadena.

OMG I forgot about that myth Buddy spewed out.

then, again...I grew up without a dad.

It certainly doesn't 'make' one a homo....but it doesn't help.

Btw, did Kristy grow up without a mother...and, more importantly, did Jimmy grow up without a dad?

R339 and R344 are why I love DL

Kristy and Jimmy grew up without a father. Their mother was very involved in their career and was their manager for a time.

Jimmy was a father young. Reuinited with a daughter after some 30-odd years.

R321 No the women I'm talking about would have been 27 or 28 during the run of the family. But maybe I'm misremembering what show it was all together. She was on the Waltons and Lou Grant. She always had really small parts and seems to have quit after the early '80s. She was a good stage actress but the camera doesn't love her and she always looked much older on camera than she was.

Well, the girl who played Buddy's alkie friend was 24 in real life.

R284 very well said. The show is anchored by Kate. Sada Thompson is wonderful, and for most of the run, they wrote her perfectly.

It's interesting, in the first six episodes she's a different character. She smokes, and she's edgy and unpleasant. But once the series proper starts, she becomes rock solid, dependable Kate.

I think she's a cunt all the way through!

I loved Kate the lone juror holdout allowing a perceived rapist killer to go free.

The REAL killer was some perv chasing Buddy around the park when all she wanted to do was skate in peace.

[quote] I loved Kate the lone juror holdout

A plot stolen directly from the Andy Griffith Show with Aunt Bee being the lone juror holdout.

I read someone wrote a Family spec in which Buddy told Kate and Doug to essentially fuck off (not those words of course back in broadcast 70s tv)

and the head writer or creator wrote on the script "NOB"

Not. Our. Buddy.

I guess Jeff’s cock was huge. Nancy kept going back to him.

[quote]MBB allegedly was up for the role of Jaime Summers. Glad that she didn’t get it. I heard that Susan Dey was too.

Miss Dey will have no comment on this allegation.

Jeff was a good guy. Nancy was exhausting! Never satisfied. Neglected little Timmy. Had free room and board (a separate house all to herself) yet stupidly moved away because she felt smothered and judged by her parents. How could (mostly) unemployed single mother Nancy afford Pasadena rents and high cost of living, even back in the 1970s? Nancy was rash and irrational.

Jeff cheated on Nancy.

^ Which proves my point. His cock was so huge that he couldn’t stay faithful to Nancy.

Nancy knew how hot the sex was with him

And she couldn’t last long without either him or another, ’Man in her bed’ unquote.according to Jeff. His cock was big I can tell.. lol.

Willie had a lot of gfs, flings, one night stands, women with unfulfilled crushes on him, etc., during the show's run. I guess LA area females in the '70s liked underemployed, undereducated, clown-haired, pale, scrawny guys who lived with their parents. I don't get it!

R359- Meanwhile she drove a LATE model Mercedes.

Jeff was a serial cheater who would do things like take off with Tommy out of town for days without a word to anyone. Nancy was no picnic, but he was in no way "a good guy."

R362- You forget to mention SHORT

[quote]I read someone wrote a Family spec in which Buddy told Kate and Doug to essentially fuck off (not those words of course back in broadcast 70s tv)

You mean as opposed to 2021 broadcast TV?

Princess Perfect found her Prince Penis Perfect

Kate the lone juror, two-part season 2 episode! Natalie Green's mother plays the victim's mother. Kate's fellow jurors include chubby and lisping Sydney Lassick (Carrie, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest) and Kenneth Mars (who's in that terrible Barnaby Jones final episode). Buddy has a crush on Willie Aames (who's way more attractive than Leif Garrett, but that's not saying much). Buddy's rival at the skateboard park is Laura Spencer from General Hospital. Buddy is stalked by the real killer! Our Nancy is MIA, as usual.

"Family" was considered a "prestige drama" show for both Aaron Spelling Productions and for the ABC network - they wanted it to redeem them from their other more popular and "titillating" shows

Meredith Baxter-Birney was a bigger star than any of the other actors in this production - they wanted MBB to give this fledgling quality family drama a little star power

And the formula worked - but the network was never really committed to this drama

MBB said the network told her agent there would be no salary increases or bonuses by about the second season - even though the show was doing surprisingly well in the ratings

r362, Willy really isn't my type but I find his quips a turn-on.

I remember reading something Gary Frank said (I think it was in one of those Boze Hadleigh quote compilation books) about himself as and his ambitions growing up vs. a child actor like Kristy McNichol.

"I didn't grow up wanting to be an actor. I wanted to be a cowboy, like Matt Dillon" (from Gunsmoke).

And then Frank was asked about McNichol's ambitions, and he answered, "I think Kristy grew up wanting to be Matt Dillon."

The shade of it all.

Doug's father was played by FOUR actors during the show's run: Charles Lane, John Beal, David Wayne, and Henry Fonda. That's almost one Grandpa Lawrence per season! In season 2's Christmas episode, Grandfather Lawrence #2 wants to marry Blanche Devereux's sister Virginia (10 years before she needed a kidney transplant, right?). Buddy dresses up as Santa Claus...her first time in drag? Kate says it's 90 degrees on Christmas Eve. OMFG, is that possible in Pasadena?! Highs are usually no more than 70 in December. Maybe our Kate is going through "the change". Jeff, A GOOD GUY, does the right thing and takes little Timmy to the Lawrence residence on Christmas Day (instead of taking him on a cruise to Mexico!).

[quote] Kate says it's 90 degrees on Christmas Eve. OMFG, is that possible in Pasadena?! Highs are usually no more than 70 in December. Maybe our Kate is going through "the change".

In Kate's defense, she was carrying an extra 30 lbs so it must have felt like 90 degrees. Also, those 12 or so "doctored" egg-nogs before noon kept her toasty.

There was another thread about FAMILY and someone described Kate Lawrence as PLUMPISH. I still giggle at that one.

I don't know about the size of Jeff's cock but he had huge balls!

Especially when Nancy slapped him and he slapped her right back (in front of a judge no less!).

Ann Romano would have been proud.

Kate just looks like a walking hot flash. When I think hot flash, I see Sada Thompson's face and she looks pensive.

r376 I tells ya -- it's CONSTIPATION!

Gary sounds like a bitter asshole

R372 it's possible for it to be 90 in late December in the LA area. Not common, but certainly possible.

Sound like Gary Frank was... a lot.

Willy was a child molester, he and buddy did it most every night. He never touched Quinn.

It wasn’t until the last season of Family that Gary Frank finally looked attractive. He cut his hair and had a beard 🧔‍♀️.

R380-Maybe he had a chip on his shoulder because he was short.

[quote]You didn’t see Doug Lawrence waiting in a gas line and only getting gas on odd or even days.

Maybe because that happened in 1973, and this show was on from 1976 to 1980?

[quote]Funny, I was just thinking about that the other day. Acres upon acres of land, and you have like what, 10 people crammed into a 4 or 5 bedroom house? I know Miss Ellie wanted everyone close but God damn it you old biddy, tell Jock to get off his cheap ass and get an annex built! No wonder Sue Ellen drank, I could never love with my whole family in anything less than 10,000 sq feet.

That was before suburban families lived in McMansions. Look at Graceland. I remember as a kid thinking it was huge and lavish. Houses have gotten bigger and bigger and what people consider luxury now is different from 40 years ago.

[quote] Maybe because that happened in 1973, and this show was on from 1976 to 1980?

There were gas lines in 1979. Trust me, I was there.

Does anyone know Gary Frank is doing today. I've looked online but haven't found much of anything at all.

Willy was a molester

R387- After Family he was basically WASHED UP.

[quote] I just watched the episode with Leif Garrett. How that kid ever got to be a teen idol is beyond me. He's not cute,

He was androgynous. That was the ideal for young men in the mid 70s.

R387 Well, if you were Gary Frank would you have taken the role in the first place, knowing that if the show were successful you might win an Emmy -- as he did -- but be forever stereotyped as a worthless slacker?

Leif had a huge penis.

Checking his IMDB, Gary has only worked on two projects in this millennium (both shorts), so I guess he pretty much retired at...49?

By the last season 1979/80 Willie was going places. He looked like he was on his way to becoming a successful writer or filmmaker ( I don't remember which) while in real life he was on his way to becoming a HAS BEEN.

R386- They were still a LOT of white people living in Queens in 1979 and they had REAL New York accents.

It's that final graf of his IMBD bio that's a little haunting. "Also a writer, Gary has written a stack of scripts and is writing his first novel."

Gary is still married to Carroll Newman, a member of the Newman music dynasty (Lionel's daughter) who was producing TV movies into the '00s.

Maybe he didn't have to work.

Yep. Just like Willie.

He seems to live in a condo on South Bundy in West LA. Not the BEST area, but not TOO bad.

[quote]Leif had a huge penis.

He no longer has it?

[quote] He seems to live in a condo on South Bundy in West LA. Not the BEST area, but not TOO bad.

But quite a comedown from a $250,000 house (in mid-'70s money) purchased in his twenties.

[quote] He no longer has it?

Darling, have you seen him lately? It doesn't matter.

I wonder where Kristy lives now. I bet she's low-key and lives non-extravagantly.

I frequently scoffed at the persistent, nonsensical "tv family" tropes like Sada serving everyone a hot pancake breakfast with a full face of makeup and pearls, but the scripts were often excellent. They didn't all get along easily (everyone off and on hatin' on Nancy for bizarre reasons), and I was about Buddy's age with a crush on Willie. I don't know, I just loved it all.

Kristy lives in Encino

This thread warms my cockles.

I dropped a pic of Sada Thompson into a text chat with a friend today, and they immediately commented, “She was always such a bitch”

(!!)

Sada was a bit surly but she was wise. At least she held her shit together, unlike flighty Nancy and unfocused Willie.

I don't know about the makeup and pearls but it's not that hard to serve a family a hot breakfast, is it? And families used to eat together then. My mom was adamant about everyone being home for meals and sitting down together. Most other families I knew were the same.

[QUOTE] Kate reminds me of Kay, the joyless housekeeper who replaced Alice on the Brady Bunch.

OMG, this is the perfect description. I’ll never see her any other way again 😂.

Nah, Kate has a sense of humor.

Kate is a wit. Rewatching this, I have LOL'd at more than one of her retorts. Like:

Buddy: Mom, can you get me a piece of cake and a glass of milk from the kitchen?

Kate: Anything else, your majesty?

I'm watching the episode where Timmy is in the hospital over Christmas. I hate when people make a fuss over some child that just sits around shitting in a diaper and drooling. Why cancel Christmas over some meatloaf with a runny nose?

Little Timmy was the most underdeveloped character on the show. At the least the show didn't super-age him and have him utter wisecracks in the later seasons.

Was Timmy retarded?

He certainly seemed to be

For one to think that Kate is a "sourpuss" or a "bitch" I doubt they have seen too many episodes of the show. She was warmhearted, in her way. And very funny. She's rather different in the pilot than she is in the rest of the series.

Regarding A Right and Proper goodbye with Mildred Natwick- firstly, Doug and Kate had decided to let her stay in their house. It was Hattie (Natwick) who absolutely refused, out of pride, and because she didn't think she and Kate would get along under the same roof.

Regarding the timeline, when Willie calls to tell them Hattie died, Kate says "We've been waiting for this call all week." Seems to me she died shortly after the arrived at the farm.

And, the goddamed thing made me weep buckets. I miss my grandma.

[quote]r418 when Willie calls to tell them Hattie died, Kate says "We've been waiting for this call all week."

And there, folks, we see Kate’s true colors. It’s like she’s been sitting by the phone all week, licking her chops in gleeful anticipation.

No animosity from the other siblings that Hattie left Willie the farm?

I hope Nancy and Buddy at least got some nice jewelry out of her.

My mom used to tape the reruns of it that played on WGN in the early 1980s during the day and we'd watch them when I got home from school. Haven't watched it since. I seem to recall an episode where Annie Potts played a Joplinesque rock and roller staying with the Lawrences, who bonds with Kate. Also, Dana Hill playing a girl at school who bullied Buddy, or something like that. I also think Tracey Gold might have been on an episode, I used to get Dana Hill and Tracey Gold confused when I was a kid, so maybe it was just Hill in multiple episodes.

Watching the series on Tubi, wondering if I'm missing transitions? Willie starts an episode in bed with Selina. Oh, is she back in town? Has she never left?

If that's intentional, I like it! Less context and get to it.

Buddy calling Audrey and asking her to the dance was a joy to witness.

R414- Timmy was basically a PROP , like a Tiger on the Brady Bunch.

How about the episode from season 2 where Nancy goes to her high school reunion and hooks back up with Brian, the football star she dumps to marry Jeff? Brian looks great and is super charming at first, he's even finished medical school! Something is very wrong with Brian though, and the next day he asks Nancy to marry him. In the span of one day, he passes out on the couch while watching Timmy, leaves his bottle of speed in his pocket for Timmy to grab, then tries to rape Nancy in the guest house! (She runs to the big house and Willie saves her and chases Brian away.) Yet the next day Nancy feels it's ok to meet with Brian again, where he confesses he is indeed a speed freak and begs her to marry him and help him get clean. For ONCE in her life, Nancy takes Kate's advice and tells Brian to fuck off.

Sada's shirtwaist dress in the opening looks very Halston.

R287 Many homes in San Francisco STILL don't have screens...or a/c. So for that one month a year when it is sweltering (usually September), it is MISERABLE and you can't even open your windows all the way.

R370 Did you ever notice Willie occasionally slips into a New York City accent? Or was he trying to be silly? He does it pretty frequently.

R418 and R420 The first thing out of Kate's mother's mouth (Mildred Natwick) when they pick her up from the airport is a snotty comment about her being thinner than Kate, when they look the exact same size/weight. There are quite a few during the show. Oh the seventies! Where you could never be too rich or too thin...and you talked about it!

What would a modern-day "Family" look like?

Doug would be an embezzler, trying to keep up appearances in pricey Pasadena. Housing the truth from his family is putting a strain on him and his relationship with them.

Kate is trying to be a mommy blogger, but so far it's costing more than she's bringing in, adding to Doug's woes.

Nancy ("Ashley" in this updated version) is reliving her second childhood by touring with a band as lead singer and dumpling her young son Timmy ("Maverick") on her parents to raise.

Willie ("Noah") is addicted to internet porn and seemingly unable to hold down a job.

Buddy ("Finn") has just come out as non-binary and also "fae," whatever the hell that is.

There's no Annie is this version, because who the hell would leave their child to these hot messes?

R428 My partner's mother, a Pasadena socialite, is very much like that.

Willie was so fug. How was he a heartthrob?

He had a cute face but the hair was so bad it ruined him. Plus he was really scrawny.

[quote] In one scene, Doug and Willie talk about the teenage crushes they had on other boys.

where?

I watched that episode yesterday and didn't see that scene either R433. DL wishful thinking?

That "scene" never happened. Stop making up shit about this wonderful show. Just the facts, ma'am!

The scene with Willie and Zeke at the airport is interesting. After being a grouchy grump for the entire episode, acting like he didn't know Zeke liked cock, they had a little conversation there in coded language that to me implied they'd fooled around a little bit as teenagers.

The actor who plays Zeke was well cast. He looks like the porn actor from whatever porn movie it is where the guy hides under the bed to steal some Italian muscle dude's shorts. Looks the same, sounds similar too.

I wonder if Eight is Enough had any gay-themed episodes. I hope Tubi gets that show, haven't seen it since it first aired (when I was even younger than Adam Rich at the time).

R424- The good looking actor who played Brian in real life was GAY and died of AIDS in 1983- Peter Coffield.

R429 Kate would be thin, with long straight hair and plenty of botox, and dressed inappropriately in young styles. A real housewife, in other words.

R439- If Family were done today the Lawrences would be SHOWOFFS they wouldn't drive the equivalent of Ford Mavericks . The Lawrences lived well below their means. Jeff Maitland's mother was a HUGE showoff- The complete opposite of Kate Lawrence.

[quote] It seems that every episode, they called the liquor store to bring over a bottle of gin or white wine.

This was so our neighbors across the street. They always seemed so fun and glam.

Wasn't as fun years later when they turned into full blown alkies, though.

The scene where Willie and his father talk about their teenage crushes on other boys DID happen, R433/R434/R435.

It begins at 40:29:

Any celebs live in Pasadena? Who? Would celebs want to live in Pasadena? I would live there...or Santa Monica...if i ever relocate to the LA area.

A good number of celebs and industry people live in Pasadena. It's more low key, some like that. And it's convenient to Burbank and Hollywood.

R442 Thank you. I must have searched that clip 10 times but never saw that bit.

Julia Child was from a well to do Pasadena family.

Beverly Hills was established because Olde Money in Pasadena and Hancock Park wouldn’t sell to newly moneyed (ie, Jewish) film folk.

R446 That wasn't why Beverly Hills was established.

I always thought Kate was New England patrician, like William Daniels and Frances Sternhagen. The first couple of episodes, I thought Family took place in a suburb of Boston.

Kate was from Oregon and Doug was from...ummmm...Philadelphia? Or did I dream that? Or did Doug grow up in the Pasadena house? Help!

Doug grew up in the Pasadena house.

That's established in the second season episode with his drunk sister, who waxes nostalgic about her old room before she gets shitfaced.

No wonder Kate is so cold. She has to live in someone else's house. That's why she was looking at those condos downtown. She wanted her own space.

Originally Family was going to be set AND filmed in Philadelphia but filming there in the winter would have been difficult so they changed the setting to Pasadena, that’s why Kate and Doug perhaps seemed so EAST coast.

That was Kate. I'm Kay.

Interesting. I'd always assumed they chose southern California as the setting because the Louds were in Santa Barbara. And Pat was originally from Oregon!

Many TV shows are set in Southern California because it makes it easy to shoot there without pretending it’s elsewhere.

One reason the film colony centered there after starting in NY was the year round available light, but also because there’s variety in locals somewhat nearby. You have mountain ranges, forests, the desert, the coastline… you could make it look like Maine, or Arabia.

Sada was very much a product of the East Coast and not convincing as an Oregon native. I suspect she never visited the state.

If you want to hear about Oregon, go ask one of my rug munching dyke daughters!

[quote] In one scene, Doug and Willie talk about the teenage crushes they had on other boys.

[quote] where?

In the butt.

[quote] Sada was very much a product of the East Coast and not convincing as an Oregon native. I suspect she never visited the state.

Not only did Sada visit Oregon, but she survived the Trail! She was the original frontier frau!

"To commit suicide in Oregon is redundant."

R433 it did happen. It's when Willie talks to his father and his father names someone from school he crushed out on. This fucking show was beautiful.

Kate said she would have a murderer for a son than a homosexual.

R462, shut it for once, will ya?

R436: I just watched that episode from season 2. Yummy Brian Byers played Zeke, he was displaying a delicious meaty ass. Willie was an asshole towards his best friend’s coming out to him but Kate read Willie to filth about his attitude. And Brian Byers could’ve doubled for any Matt Sterling feathered hair porno dude in the early 70s.

I meant early 80s.

I love the writing for Kate when she reads Willie to filth about being a jerk to his gay friend.

Kate: All right, Willie, that's your privilege. But if you plan to go through life always avoiding things that upset you and cause you pain, well, let me tell you, you're in for a meager existence.

Willie: I hear you.

Kate: Do you also hear me saying you're disgraceful?

*MIC DROP*

I'm not ashamed to say I occasionally find myself delivering parts of that speech to various friends and family members. I'm particularly into "meager existence" and "disgraceful" — they really underline a point.

She read him for FILTH!

R419, now, look here Tizzie Lish...

I always forget Sada was cast as Irene Lorenzo on All In The Family and was replaced by Betty Garrett after having differences with Norman Lear.

She certainly bounced back, R469.

R464 - Would a photo have killed you? I guess I just have to do everything around here!

So we can glean from that photo that Zeke was a bottom, right?

Aren't they all, R472? Aren't they all?

The actor playing Zeke is wearing a really bad wig in that episode.

You called, R474?

[quote]r468 now, look here, Tizzie Lish... —Kate

I wonder how that sounder on the nights she was drinking.

[italic] “Now look here, Tushy Lick… Lezzie Lush…fuckin’ RUG muncher!”

"Tizzhie Lish"... it doesh shound shweet!

R466, thank you for quoting this:

Kate: All right, Willie, that's your privilege. But if you plan to go through life always avoiding things that upset you and cause you pain, well, let me tell you, you're in for a meager existence.

Willie: I hear you.

Kate: Do you also hear me saying you're disgraceful?

-- I can't think of another show that treats young people as emotionally and intellectually capable enough to hear this. The parent-child dynamic on that show was so fucking trusting of an audience, and so educational in the most compelling way. I wanted to be mature enough to get what Sada was communicating.

There are few photos of Brian Byers online. He did a nice job with this role - wonder why he didn't do more.

If they remade this on HBO or Showtime, would we get to see Willie's willy?

Or Willie and Zeke jacking off together?

I think the thing that feels so real but yet weird to think about now with this show is how real the parents look.

I was younger than Buddy at the time this aired, but Doug and Kate looked like my parents. Or vice versa. My parents were late 40s/early 50s when I was a young kid going into early teen years, and that was what people in that age bracket looked like at that time.

Now with some Botox and hair extensions, Mommy looks like her daughter and Dad looks hotter than his college age son because Daddy also gets Botox and fillers, and works out 5x a week, juicing his testosterone shots.

In the very first episode of season 1, when Willie pulls the car over to let Buddy drive, you can see Laurie Strode's(Jamie Lee Curtis) house from Halloween on the right. It's wild to imagine that this scene was filmed 2 years before Halloween would make that street and house so iconic.

Wait, but isn't Laurie's house in West Hollywood? I guess they didn't shoot all their exteriors in Pasadena, then.

"The parent-child dynamic on that show was so fucking trusting of an audience, and so educational in the most compelling way."

Why? Because it spoke truth. Exceptional writing and playing.

It spoke TRUTH to POWER.

Ahead of its time.

R478 and R485 You guys broke it down. Fine writing, excellent, real, interesting actors, and a great combo of reality and how we WISHED our parents were.

Season 2. Wow! Willie falls for DL fave Elizabeth Ashley, a film director. Kate's best friend has a long-lost daughter, Tovah Feldshuh. Willie, a photographer, takes photos of Julie McCoy. Kate enrolls in Rutledge College, where DL archvillain James Woods is a music instructor. Pat Crowley (Bob Newhart's sister on his 1970s sitcom and Ted McGinley's mother on one of old Dynasty's terrible later seasons) wants Doug and wants him badly! Tommy Hyatt #1 is a lonely kid who wants to be part of the Lawrence family. Nancy's law school classmate is the mom from ALF.

[quote]Pat Crowley (Bob Newhart's sister on his 1970s sitcom

Pat Crowley was the mother on "Please Don't Eat the Daisies" (sitcom.) Pat(te) Finley played Bob Newhart's sister. She also played Twinks Tvedt on "Mary Tyler Moore."

[quote] Kate said she would have a murderer for a son than a homosexual.

Well duh. Kate can use a murderer for a son. He can eliminate all her enemies. What is a homosexual son going to do? Her hair?

Pat Crowley was best known as the sister of Alastair.

[quote] Well duh. Kate can use a murderer for a son. He can eliminate all her enemies. What is a homosexual son going to do? Her hair?

Have you ever seen Kate's hair? Better she should have a homo.

Kate liked her devil-may-care hairstyle. She was above vanity, as well as any reason to be vain.

Can someone tell me- beside the season 2 episode where Buddy confronts feeling guilty about the first Timmy's death, I remember there was another episode that was focused on Kate dealing with it. I remember Kate saying "I kept thinking 'if only I could start the day over'"

I looked through an episode guide and didn't see it.

R494, it could be When the Bough Breaks, the season 5 episode when Kate gets pregnant and visits First Timmy's grave with Nancy.

R495 Sounds right. I know that after season 2, original Timmy isn't mentioned much.

The character of Kate Lawrence was clearly based on me.

Kate was warm and cuddly compared to you, Beth.

r498 So is a pitbull.

Creator Jay Presson Allen, who I didn't realize was a woman, wrote DL-fave Travels with My Aunt.

Willie's deep voice makes me all atingle. He had sizemeat.

I can overlook that rat's nest for some good sizemeat.

[quote]Creator Jay Presson Allen, who I didn't realize was a woman, wrote DL-fave Travels with My Aunt.

She also adapted "Cabaret" for the screen.

And Marnie for Hitchcock.

Kate also reminisces about Timmy in the fifth episode of season 1, THURSDAY'S CHILD, which centers around the christening of Nancy's Timmy. Kate and Doug are driving in their car and Kate remembers the awful day of their son's death. It's a killer. It starts at the 6'25" mark below.

Thank you for posting about this! I was too young for the first run of the series, but I seem to remember a channel like A&E showing episodes during the summer in the late 80's/early 90's. I'd watch while I ate my lunch. I've been rewatching on Tubi for a few days now and really enjoying it.

I’m sorry but I cannot relate to ANY of those characters.

Who cares, R506?

You don’t, obviously. Go jump in a toilet.

[quote] Kate was warm and cuddly compared to you, Beth.

Fuck you, Calvin! You expect me to mother that twerp when my beautiful baby boy died saving that turd?! Oh, and pass the mashed potatoes please. Conrad, would you like more mashed potatoes? Oh and another thing, Calvin, your penis is tiny. TINY!

I’ve always thought Jay Presson Allen was a lesbian. If true, you had to wade through a sea of current and future dykes on that show.

I had no idea that the actor playing the father was Matthew Broderick's husband!!! He's SJP's father-in-law! Did he die before Matthew and SJP got married?

It makes me sad to watch this show knowing how Kristy McNichol's career went nowhere after this. She was an insanely talented and charismatic actress. It's crazy to me how she and Tatum O'Neal were so amazing as child actors and they both went on to have shit careers as adults. It's also depressing how Gary Frank's career ended soon after the show was cancelled.

Kristy looks terrible today. I wonder how she supports herself?

Kristy's career didn't go nowhere after Family. She worked for nearly a decade in some very high profile projects, but she was dealing with a lot of unknown mental health issues. She chose to leave the business, ultimately.

I do think it sucks that Herb Ross fired her from The Secret of My Success before she even started because he had heard she was difficult. Not that it would have done much for her, but it was a big, successful film that might have boosted her confidence.

R511 her mother started buying up properties with her Family money when she was still on the show. So she’s basically collecting rent on them or selling them off. Her E True Hollywood Story might still be on YouTube. Goes into great detail about her time on the show and her bipolar issues.

R512 wow never knew she was fired from SOMS.

Kristy doesn't look bad. She's almost 60 and a bit heavier than she was; meds for bipolar can do that. But she still has a great smile and she seems happy with her partner.

Helen Slater really lucked out during that time of her career. She had two high profile flops in SUpergirl and The Legend of Billie Jean, and she back assed her way into two hits after the roles needed recasting. Besides Kristy being let go from Secret of My Success, Valerie Bertinelli was the first actress hired for Ruthless People but something happened and she had to drop out, I think it was her doing, not the film's. Slater got both the roles and both films were big hits.

[quote]I’ve always thought Jay Presson Allen was a lesbian.

She was.

This show seems more real to me today than any drama ABC has produced in recent memory.

Kristy was very natural. Nothing actressy or forced even when the material wasn’t great. I think she looks terrific now. And (GASP) Happy!!!!

R515 - I really like Valerie Bertinelli but I cannot picture her in Ruthless People. It's the wrong energy, and I don't think Val is (or at least then was) funny enough to go up against the rest of that cast. I don't think of Helen Slater as a comedic actress, but she really did nail it.

Oh, I agree. I also think she was better casting for SOMS than McNichol, even though that role was really window dressing.

Slater can be very funny. There is a wonderful, little seen film from the late 80s called Sticky Fingers that she and Melanie Mayron were the leads in, about two downtown artists whose friend leaves a suitcase with them for safekeeping. It turns out the suitcase is filled with drug money, and the women discover it and start spending it little by little. It's a real gem.

I watched the episode where Kate got pregnant, and started to think it was a chance for Timmy to come back, in a weird way. The scene where she explains it to Doug, and talks about her feelings of guilt over the death of her ten year old, made me sob. Sada Thompson was really excellent.

It's a shame that Jodie Foster was cast in The Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane over Kristy. Although I love Jodie in the role, I think Kristy would have been slightly better in the role. It's not believable that Jodie would have had Scott Jacoby and Martin Sheen lusting after her. Even though Kristy was also tomboyish, she had a softer and more feminine aura to her.

I'm not sure about that, R522. I think Jodie was pretty perfect in that role. She has a real intelligent, adult, calculating way about her in that performance that I don't think Kristy would have been able to summon. As someone above said- Kristy was best when she was playing a real person. Her worst performances are when she tries to put on a character. Rinn was a definite character, albeit one Jodie had easily in her arsenal. Kristy was far too vulnerable to make Rinn work.

As for attractiveness, Rinn didn't have to be gorgeous. Child molesters like children, they like to have power over them. Looks aren't what drive them. And as for Scott Jacoby's character, he was a misfit and a cripple who no girl had ever given the time of day to before. Rinn was actually perfect for him, as she was a misfit, as well.

I've never seen anyone eat so much crap and stay so thin as Willie. Every time you see him he's eating a candy bar or ice cream or a pizza. Has he ever heard of a carrot?

I was going to post that, R524.

I'm watching these episodes after spending hours exercising every day to atone for my pandemic diet, and everything Willie eats is takeout—tacos, pizza, ice cream, sandwiches for dinner. And he doesn't gain a pound. The entire series, he's a rail.

They should have done an episode on his bulimia

[quote] Has he ever heard of a carrot?

Yes, but Willie wasn't aware those were supposed to go in your mouth.

R507 I care. I can't relate to them, either. My mom liked this show, but she was nothing like Kate. The family is just so reserved. I can't picture them at a big wedding having a great time, I can't picture them all laughing uproariously at a funny movie or TV show, or cheering at a sporting event. They all seem half dead.

[quote]I had no idea that the actor playing the father was Matthew Broderick's husband!!!

Neither did he.

[quote] The entire series, he's a rail.

You know he's one of those guys who's flat as a board but when he unzips.....*thwack* Oh. THERE's where all his weight is.

Gary Frank with better hair and hairy legs

When I was a teenager/young adult I ate all kinds of junk food and never gained weight, either.

I actually have to thank you bitches. I've now been pushed down the rabbit hole and will have to watch this from the beginning.

I just watched an episode, it seems to have to tone and timing of a daytime soap. With the pregnant pauses, etc. Even the music reminded me of an old soap. I never noticed this at the time.

What kind of music do you think Willie listened to?

It's interesting how every scene which I expect to be the last scene of the episode is never the last scene of the episode.

I started a Part 2 for this thread, should it become necessary.

Willie was never shown listening to music — it was all movies with him.

Episode 1 is so scandalous.

Buddy overhears Kate say that she thought about having an abortion when she was pregnant with her.

MARY!

I mean

BUDDY!

This thread makes me remember running track in high school.

We would have to pair up before practice to "stretch each other out."

This underclassman with blond curls like Gary Frank and hairy blond legs would always find his way next to me so we would be stretching partners. Every. Day.

I never picked up what he was putting down. I was an idiot.

The more I see of Willie the more I want him in me quite deeply.

but a word of warning - don't try to find photos of Gary Frank today. It's not pretty

[quote]but a word of warning - don't try to find photos of Gary Frank today. It's not pretty

It's so strange to see how much some people's looks can change after 45 years.

There are no photos of Gary Frank today. The one posted upthread is definitely not him.

I think this is Gary Frank five years ago, age 70 then. I think he looks fine, age appropriately.

That photo at R544 looks nothing like Gary Frank, aged appropriately or otherwise.

Exactly, r545. That's what I meant in my post at r543. Just because some moron uploaded a photo and labeled it with Frank's name doesn't make it true.

And did you notice all of the other photos below that purport to be of Gary Frank? Click on the first one (Gary Sinise.) Guess what? It takes you to a page with the exact same GARY FRANK caption.

R545 My brain's inbuilt face recognition module says that's Gary Frank.

That is not Gary Frank, his nose is nothing like that.

Does this link work?

R549 So he had his nose fixed! That's pretty common in Hollywood.

So Gary Frank is the brother of Charles Frank?

Charles definitely got the looks in the family.

Photo at R550 is definitely Gary Frank. The one at R544 is definitely not Gary Frank.

Awww I think he's still cute.

How dare he age!

If the picture at R550 is him then I stand corrected, because that looks great. I mean, he looks like the man in his late 60s/early 70s that he is, but he looks good.

The ones coming up with his name in searches on "Gary Frank" must be associated with another Gary.

R550 is his wife's Facebook.

R552 Interesting - I don't see anything about them being brothers, but both were born a few years apart in Washington state. It's a possibility.

me SAW-daw,

r537

Wow what a pear shaped loser to want to be first at something so bad you start a part II on a thread that is still over 60 posts from ending.

In his defense, after 500-plus posts on a thread, non-paying posters are often locked out.

r560, does that new thread harm you that much to be that hurtful? Why the rage?

Oooh, a bearded Willie?

R560 What a sad, fat prisspot you'd have to be to shit all over someone else's post like that.

If ever there were a series we could plan to watch in tandem and discuss on DL, it's Family.

R565 I'm in!

R550, That's surreal, and depressing, to see. I just watched the very first episode and they were all babies back then and now look at them. At least they're still alive, so there's that. It's just makes you realize how fleeting life really is.

R550 What a wonderful of Buddy, Willie, and Jeff. Does my heart good.

R544 Must be a retard to believe that was Gary!

I have to say, after watching several episodes in a short span of time, I've come to reappraise my opinion of Kate. She's not as icy and unloving as I initially thought. She's stoic and patrician, but she's got a good sense of humor, she cares deeply, and you can really see the love she has for her family. I think that doesn't quite come through when it's only doled out in small doses weekly, but one after the other, it makes a difference.

If you click through the series of picture on that Facebook page, you'll find a few more of Gary.

Here's another one.

And the guy at R544 could be Lionel Newman, who was Gary's father-in-law.

R567- The first episode of Family was filmed in 1975. That's 46 years ago.

R567 and R573 In 1975, 46 years ago was 1929.

In 1975, if you saw film or pictures from 1929, the fact that they were in black and white, or low quality, would put some distance between you and the people in the pictures.

In 1975, the pilot of Family was shot on color film. I think what makes it jarring is we watch this show, and the picture quality is pretty great- it looks like it could've been shot yesterday. Then, you see the cast 46 years later- it can be a bit of a shock to see them, if you're not prepared.

Now Willie is eating Dipsy Doodles (generic Yodels?) and ice cream. I still don't get how he's so thin. Both Kate and Doug tend to fat.

The Lawrences get a new housekeeper in Season 3 played by Alice Ghostley. No idea how long she lasts, but she's an upgrade from the diesel dyke from Green Acres.

[quote] Now Willie is eating Dipsy Doodles (generic Yodels?) and ice cream.

Sounds delicious!

It's still Mrs. Hanley, R576, just recast. Ghostley was only in one episode.

Oh, thanks, R578. I didn't realize. I wonder if Mary Grace Canfield and Elaine Heilveil used to get together and hate watch the show.

Kate, Miss Ellie and Mrs. Garrett...

Beautiful acting in that clip, R580. I'd love to see the whole production.

You really don't see that level of detail in television acting anymore, r581.

That was simply wonderful. I must find that full production.

When this thread runs out, let's continue the watch party at Part 2:

Here's the full production

Gary is a very cute older man at R550!

[quote] When I was a teenager/young adult I ate all kinds of junk food and never gained weight, either.

Now weighs 350 pounds and has diabetes, gout, and crippling arthritis

[quote]Oh, thanks, [R578]. I didn't realize. I wonder if Mary Grace Canfield and Elaine Heilveil used to get together and hate watch the show.

Yes--right after their wekkly scissoring sessions.

Box office poison!

Buddy! Bring me the axe!

R538 That's why I said what kind of music do you *think* he listens to.

I just realized.....my girl Sada had top billing!

She was the STAH! of Family!

Take that, James Broderick!

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