THEATRE GOSSIP #430: Search For Fanny Edition

The laws in the UK which require anyone who was in proximity to a known covid case to quarantine, expire next week, yes?

From the earlier thread:

[quote] I got to see HELLO, DOLLY! very early in previews, before Zaks had exercised enough control to get everyone to start mugging and overplaying, and the show was far better then as compared to when I saw it after the opening. It was a pretty great production overall anyway, but it would have been a lot better without all of that nonsense.

Isn't that backwards? After opening with director gone, cast starts playing for laughs. I think Zaks likes his schtick but keeps it just on the right side of excess.

Scuttlebutt is Beanie Feldstein and Ramin Karmiloo - now there's a combination for the ages...

chipotle will sponsor. "Beanie." Get it?

Ramin is so gorgeous and talented. Don't know why he's not a bigger star.

Julie was such a doll!

You’re lying, Beanie Troll. That was already proved in the last thread. It’s a much bigger star than the Beanster who is going to be announced.

Not even a musical theatre fan, but I'd see Gaga in FG.

R1 yes, on the 16th, for anyone who is fully vaccinated

[quote] Julie was such a doll!

So was this:

[quote] Julie was such a doll!

So was this:

I want the alternative Angieverse where she did Mame on film and Bedknobs and Broomsticks was never butchered in post production.

And in the alternative Angieverse, Anyone Can Whistle and Dear World both ran five years each.

And Sweeney Todd is still running to this day.

[quote] Not even a musical theatre fan, but I'd see Gaga in FG.

I don’t even respect any opinions of anyone who dislikes musical theater, but you couldn’t pay me to see her in anything.

Please don't let Sutton be Fanny.

Streisand is not going to do it again. She didn’t even want to go back to Dolly when she was the right age for it.

The West End is handling everything all wrong with Covid hangjng down like an axe. I have an elderly friend going to see Anything Goes and Hairspray and I tell him he’s playing Russian roulette. They all are.

Oh, Lens Dunham was MADE for this roll!

What about the B&B tour through the rest of the UK? Is that still on?

[quote] Oh, Lens Dunham was MADE for this roll!

No, she was made for this one:

[quote] Beanie Feldstein is wonderful in a little movie called How to Build a Girl.

By the looks of her, my guess is the answer was second helpings, cheesecake and sitting on one's ass.

The sequel will star Tommy Dorfman and Ellen Page.

I'm half-joking, but ... Zendaya?

This was the best you could do with the title, OP?

Its Beanster. No lie. No bigger star.

“Don’t rain on Beanie’s parade“ would have been one for the ages.

Or

Don't tell me not to eat, I worship butter.

I can see Matt has rejoined us with his post mentioning Bedknobs & Broomsticks, and the other comparing Julie to Chucky unfavorably. Lest you forget, Matt insists he was molested by adults while watching The Sound of Music, and blames it on Julie.

He's absolutely disturbing in the Ashli Babbitt thread, r28. Definitely has issues.

There's a growing discussion amongst the usual people on social media that Fanny must be played by a Jew, and it would be offensive otherwise. Anyway, in reply to one of these tweets, Michael Park tweeted that he knows who will be playing her, and she is Jewish, so that should cut down the names for the guessing game.

Does amuse me that in the replies to the original tweet there are people listing other musicals that have certain cultures to them (Zorba, Nine, etc) and asking if those roles should be limited to actors of those backgrounds - the replies being no, that would be silly, it's only this particular example where it should be limited.

Fanny Found!

It's Idina.

Ben Platt convinced his father to finance it so that he'd play Fanny. They'll counter with no sex discrimination in casting.

Why hasn't Marc Platt made the cute son a star?

Idina Menzel is fifty years old. Nowhere near being a girl.

R28 is a racist liar defending his fellow pedophiles.

Never forget.

Seek professional help, r36.

Julie sucks. Angie rules. That’s all there is to it.

Angela Lansbury should’ve been in TSOM. Her voice is closer to Mary Martin’s.

R29 is a misogynist who makes a case for making all acts of violence against women capital crimes with no exceptions whatsoever.

Ignore the Loon. Just ignore him. Matt, you are sick.

"Not even a musical theatre fan, but I'd see Gaga in FG."

She was my front-runner...until I saw A Star Is Born. Doesn't have the acting chops, IMO. And I think there are other limiting factors as well. She sure could sing it, though.

Beanie who? I mean, c'mon, you need a star. And though she's been fine in other things, her turn in HD was the least satisfying component of that production for reasons stated in the previous thread.

Unless the performer has enormous charisma, an ability to engage audience sympathy, a hard-earned refinement and elegance, a sharp sense of burlesque laced with self-deprecating and ironic humor and (last but not least) terrific vocal technique, they shouldn't be cast as Fanny Brice. A tall order, indeed. But there you have it.

Refinement and elegance? Streisand?

R42, you are the pot calling the kettle black. Project much? You’re the sick one. Unfortunately, the only Doctor who can help you was Dr. Kevorkian, and he’s dead.

Ignore R42. Just ignore him. You’re an antisemite and therefore a racist, and racism is incitement to physical violence no matter what the context no matter what the circumstances.

I feel bad for anyone playing Fanny. Not just competing against the legacy of Streisand who it was tailor made for, but having to work with that shitty script.

"Refinement and elegance? Streisand?:

One of the numerous mythic themes at the heart of Funny Girl is the ugly duckling who becomes a swan. So, yeah, Streisand. Obviously.

It's Sheila!

[quote]Refinement and elegance? Streisand?

Well, yes. Not when Fanny's young, but after she becomes a star she displays as much, and Streisand did it well (in the movie, at least). Unless that quote from someone who knows who it is is wrong, it's a Jewish actress. It couldn't possibly be Granny Menzel, so that doesn't leave much else as far as Jewish actresses who sing and have some degree of recognition (and Beanie's will skyrocket when her Lewinsky starts airing)

Is Lea Michele Jewish?

In that Shelia Smith tape, what did they change "None of 'em knows, I met 'em at Loew's" to? I can't make it out. I assume it's because no one in Australia would know what "Loew's" was.

Yes, Lea's Jewish, but she's not well-liked, and on top of that, she's a new mother.

I have no idea, r52. Fade Out Fade In is a recording I've yet to listen to.

"None of 'em yet knows, I met him at Metro's." That's what it sounds like to these ears.

Sheila Smith looked a little like DL fave Helen Wood.

Madonna IS Fanny Brice!

Have they tried this in place of that "Lucy and Jessie" song?

Well, who saw Sheila go on as Mame or any role in FOLLIES other than Meredith Lane?

Okay, so if Fanny is going to be played by a Jewish woman, is it Rachel Bloom?

I'm sorry if this is ignorant question, but how can people tell that the unhinged poster in this thread is indeed this "Matt the loon" creature? And how can you tell he's the same sicko posting in the Ashli Babbitt thread? Do you have some secret method of determining people's identity?

Chutzpah!

Well, she had to be great when she went on as Phyllis, r58. And it sounds like she has stronger pipes than Angie.

She sounds reminiscent of Dolores Gray here until the belting parts, which she doesn't ace. The ending isn't as bad as Christine Baranski's, of course.

From the 1987 San Jose Civic Light Opera production. I imagine not many women have played Carlotta 16 years apart.

Trying naming a BIG name young actress who is actually Jewish and can even competently sing the score of Funny Girl. I dare you.

(does that Mrs. Maisel girl sing?)

Brosnahan is not a Jewish name

Hailee Steinfeld?

Rachel Brosnahan is apparently like Valerie Harper ... not actually Jewish. I don't suppose Ilana Glazer sings?

R35- how old were the Golden GIRLS?

Does Jenny Slate sing? She has the face of a Fanny.

None of these names so far - Brosnahan, Steinfeld, Glazer - are big names. Not even as big as Beanie Feldstein.

I don't know what happened but there are no longer young Jewish singing stars today.

Judaism is a religion, not a race. Why should someone’s religion limit what roles they can play? I’m atheist, Does that mean I can’t play Christian or Jewish roles?

Ramin cannot act. If he's truly Nicky Arnstein, this will be a nightmare. He's a total "park and bark" performer. He even managed to be bad in Anastasia, and that's saying something...

[quote] Judaism is a religion, not a race.

It’s also a race. We could use an older term for them: Hebrew. But everyone agrees on Jewish. It’s from the surviving tribe of Judah. They are a race as well as a religion.

Natalie Portman *is* Fanny Brice.

Jake “Stinky” Gyllenhaal *is* Nicky Arnstein.

Steinfeld is a bigger name than Feldstein.

Not with the target audience, r78.

I'm devouring the new James Lapine book Putting It Together.

Speculate to your hearts' content, but it’s Idina.

So now that Ben Brantley's gone from the New York Times, will the Times have any "power" again once they name his replacement?

Didn’t Sheila Smith close Mame on broadway when Annie Miller was too ill to continue?

Do you need fiber that badly, r80?

Now there is the DL I miss.

I wonder if Barbra has a Fanny Brice doll in her mall.

Goodness, the reviews for Sutton in London are euphoric.

R87 Of COURSE they are. Usually they have dogs breakfasts like Imelda and Sheridan.

Lest we forget. Sheridan in Funny Girl.

Not that they would let her but I bet Gaga could do it justice, acting and singing.

She was good and very natural in A Star Is Born, now it's time for her to move on to the next Streisand role.

Gaga IS "Girl."

Gaga IS Dr. Lowenstein.

I’d rather see GaGa as Marge Simpson.

I bet it is Idina....they need a name and Broadway wise, she is one.

Yeah, she's too old but...Jackman and Foster are too for Music Man and god knows most of the actresses cast in the Hello, Dolly revival were WAAAAY too old for Dolly.

Not to mention Gypsy always casts 50somethings and up for Rose when historically, Rose would have been in her 30s for most of the time covered in the show.

And, let's not bring up 95 year old Mary Martin as Maria Von Trapp.

Marilyn Michaels for Mrs Brice?

Harvey Fierstein as Mrs. Brice.

Sandra Bernhard as Alternate Fanny?

Gaga IS Coco!

[quote] Didn’t Sheila Smith close Mame on broadway when Annie Miller was too ill to continue?

Ann Miller was indeed too ill to play the final week of "Mame" (at the Broadway Theatre). But Sheila Smith had by that time moved on, and the original Broadway Mame standby, Charlotte Fairchild, had returned. So Fairchild played those final shows.

Justice for Lanie Kazan - For Franny.

If Laine is cast, they should also give Tyler Maynard a chance.

It’s Tovah. She’s a true Jewish girl and NYC loves her.

Can’t they just rename and rework it as “Funny Bubbe” and then they can use some of the old dames mentioned above?

We seem to be getting one-note theatre gossip threads lately. "Annie" the last time, Fanny this time.

And it’s a goddam bore. Let’s talk about…oh, I don’t know…Dietz and Schwartz? (What have they done lately?) …Truly, ANYTHING else will do.

People bitch when the thread never covers actual currently running B'way shows or upcoming ones and here we are discussing casting for a new "Funny Girl" and people are bitching for something else to talk about it.

FOLLIES!

R81 I don't know how Barbra would react to Idina if she got the role. I mean, didn't Idina, when performing at the Kennedy Center tribute to Babs, pronounce her last name "Strei-zand" when Barbra has said in many televised interviews that her last name is pronounced with two equal syllables and the second one starts with "sand" not "z". [She's not Liza with a Z, fer chrissakes!] She's Streisand with some sand.

R76 Actually Natalie Portman probably sings she she and Brittny Spears were understudies (or standbys) for Laura Bell Bundy in "Ruthless" years ago when it first played off-Broadway. Plus Portman is Jewish. Plus if Portman got the role in "Ruthless", that's a definite singing and comedy role. So that's not too far fetched.

Of course, someone might try to think about Lauren Ambrose, who I have no idea what religion she is. Fanny doesn't have to be played by a Jewish actress. It was originally going to be played by Anne Bancroft, who was Italian-American.

Broadway doesn’t go for 6-performances-a-week slackers like that Ambrose girl.

But Natalie Portman is a beautiful girl. I don't know what they could do with her to tamp that down, short of giving her a fake head.

[quote] There's a growing discussion amongst the usual people on social media that Fanny must be played by a Jew,

yes but r30 isn't that one of the most fucked up things about social media? Is it [italic]growing[/italic]? The guy who posted has 1K followers. He's in the [italic]Book of Mormon[/italic] [bold]tour[/bold]. And his tweet has under 500 "likes" and [bold]18[/bold] comments. Does that really make it an actual thing???

Andy Randells for Fanny!

Is Idina still a bankable star?

R112 Yes, it is growing, it's being retweeted by people with larger follower counts and blue ticks, and those quotes are gaining replies - growth. Did I say it was an "actual thing"? No.

And besides, I mentioned it as context for pointing out the actress cast is Jewish, so the guessing games can rule out anyone else.

The character of Fannie Brice in the musical isn't much like the real Fannie Brice. The real Fannie Brice would never have known how to sing songs like People or His Is The Only Music That Makes Me Dance or Who Are You Now. I'm not sure if these songs were in the show before Streisand was attached, but they certainly sound like the songs and arrangements that Streisand was recording at the time. Even if you put in the actual Fanny Brice songs that Streisand sang in the movie, like My Man, there's still a problem, because people know these songs from the Streisand arrangements, which again sound like Streisand.

So, if you cast someone who's similar to the original Fanny Brice, a lot of the show doesn't work. Although dreck like Private Schwartz will come off pretty good.

I devoured it too, r80, and found a lot of it very moving.

Sutton Foster's reception in London doesn’t surprise me. There are certainly some distinctive performers over there, but the kind of aggressive competency that is Foster's stock and trade is largely missing.

Plus their homegrown musicals are so abysmal, I'm sure Anything Goes - even this middling version of it - plays like a five-star hit. The Roundabout revival used a lot of the materials of the 1987 Lincoln Center revival, but somehow flattened it. I've complained about this Kathleen Marshall production, with its endless routines to nowhere, before in a previous thread, so won't delve into it again. But I'm not surprised by the reaction either.

Is the Peggy Sawyer from the recent London "42nd Street" understudying Sutton?

also probably too old - but what about Annaleigh Ashford as Fanny? And now with that horrific tv show she has - she is a widely known personality.

She does have an unconventional nose.

Wasn't Mary Martin the first choice for Fanny? And she was 75 at the time.

Broadway Journal saying Beanie will be Fanny. Are DLers considered "industry sources"?

FG...'65

Most musical theatre in the UK is crushingly mediocre. Outside mainstream commercial fare, there's a robust ecology of off-West End musicals, but it is mostly made up of unremarkable stagings with undistinguished performers, financed and produced and directed by mediocre talents that are independently wealthy. And the the whole scene is sustained by an audience primarily made up of the abundance of trained musical theatre performers that live in London, who then gush over each other's work on social media. I'm struggling to think of a new British musical that I've seen over the past few years that wasn't either dreadful of cloyingly contrived; off the top of my head, I can't think of a new and interesting musical theatre work that has come out of London this century.

Even the 'aggressive competency' of a Broadway hoofer is ten times more skilful than your average West End chorus performer. And I know she's not particularly loved on the DL, but Sutton Foster is the real fucking deal, and Anything Goes effortlessly goes up a gear whenever she's on stage. She's carrying the whole production on her back, and makes it look completely effortless. I'm not surprised that that the reviews have been ecstatic.

Laura Benanti will play Fanny. But she’ll only do two performances a week, as usual.

[quote]Even the 'aggressive competency' of a Broadway hoofer is ten times more skilful than your average West End chorus performer.

I agree, and I've always wondered why that's the case. Perhaps snobbery? Musicals looked down on compared to 'real theatre', so they don't put the effort it, in case it looks like they're trying too hard?

But then we do have the National who do well with revivals at least.

There was a period when the only hits on Broadway were the English mega-musicals. Most of these are now looked down on, but if they hadn't kept Broadway afloat, there would have been a lot more theaters than the Mark Hellinger sold to churches.

Never been quite sure why there's so much Sutton Foster hate on this board, but my money she's been glorious in everything she's been in, and she has that special onstage radiance that reminds me of when people talk about seeing Mary Martin onstage. There was just a magic...

[quote]Outside mainstream commercial fare, there's a robust ecology of off-West End musicals, but it is mostly made up of unremarkable stagings with undistinguished performers, financed and produced and directed by mediocre talents that are independently wealthy.

In all fairness, this isn't a million miles away from what's going on Off-Broadway in the not-for-profit sector. It's all university-connected friends surrounded by feckless "dramaturges" putting on shows that no one outside of their circles (and the lemming-like critics) care about.

[quote]I agree, and I've always wondered why that's the case. Perhaps snobbery? Musicals looked down on compared to 'real theatre',

Bingo! Musicals are not considered theatre over there. It's a whole other mindset. The irony is that the bulk of the audience absolutely eats it up. If you took musicals out of the West End, the entire industry would collapse.

Wasn't the last London revival of Anything Goes at the National? Sally Ann Triplett and John Barrown IIRC.

So this voice is supposed to sing the score to "Funny Girl"? She can barely handle a secondary song from WICKED. WTF?

[Quote] I agree, and I've always wondered why that's the case. Perhaps snobbery? Musicals looked down on compared to 'real theatre', so they don't put the effort it, in case it looks like they're trying too hard?

I've also always put it down to the fact that Broadway is a cold ruthless business. Performers - and especially chorus performers - have to be better than a hundred other people before getting through the door of an audition, and even then there'll be a hundred other performers just as good as they are also being seen. If you're not quite up to it, then a production can have their pick of those who are. Chorus casting in London is extremely competitive, for sure, but it's never quite as mercilessly cut-throat.

The UK does however have some excellent actors who can sing - more so than the US, perhaps. Which is possibly one of the reasons why Sondheim has always been critically revered in Britain.

Sondheim requires good diction, r134, so the Brits probably fare better.

But who will be Matinee Fanny?

Some examples of London chorus dancers:

Linda Balgord.

A Brit with an American accent...

Streisand's understudy in London was Irish. She went on to marry the director of "The Italian Job."

Any confirmed casting on Music Man aside from Sutton and Hugh?

Who ever plays Fanny will have to be young with a lot of energy. The actress is on stage 95% of the show and has a ton of costume changes. She has to be funny, dramatic, dance and belt out well known songs. I don’t think many people realize that the show is the actress. She must carry the entire show.

It won’t be Granny Idina.

Same with Mame and Charity, r142.

[quote] Any confirmed casting on Music Man aside from Sutton and Hugh?

Yes, the principals were announced months ago.

Gaga is trying to be a movie star. I very much doubt she would give up a year of her life to the theatuh so soon after "A Star Is Born." I know Rosie said a few years ago that she was doing it (for the Broadway stage) with Gaga.

Have they imported Marie Mullen or does she live in New York?

The Sutton fan above must be her agent.

It was very nice and surprising to see Sutton brother, Hunter Foster, a few years ago naked in "Burning" off-Broadway. I don't know if he could be seen frontally at any angle, but he himself had a nice fanny.

[quote]The character of Fannie Brice in the musical isn't much like the real Fannie Brice. The real Fannie Brice would never have known how to sing songs like People or His Is The Only Music That Makes Me Dance or Who Are You Now.

I agree with your first sentence, but not your second one. I would guess that you had never heard Brice's recording of "My Man," but you mentioned it later in your post.

Is that poster under the impression that Brice only did funny?

Fanny Brice sang on the Broadway stage unamplified. Barbra was hard to hear even with her body mic.

In what parallel universe is Laura Benanti a star? Star-fucker, perhaps.

I think David Burtka should play Fanny and Neil should play Nick. Then Harvey could play Fanny's mama.

Couldn’t they just have a different actress play the Fanny role at each performance in a weekly cycle?

Meh.

The specificity of the character of Fanny Brice in the musical is what made it work, even if the specificity was ultimately all about Streisand. The show DOES NOT WORK with just any talented singer/actress. There's a reason Mary Martin, Anne Bancroft, Eydie Gorme and Carol Burnett weren't cast and it wasn't lack of talent.

The casting doesn't require a Jewish performer but it certainly requires one with a distinct ugly duckling (young!) Jewish sensibility. And no one of any renown today fills that bill.

Isn't one of Haim playing Barbra in a movie, with Bradley Cooper as Jon Peters?

van Hove's West Side Story will not return.

A pity - I thought it was great.

R157 Seems really odd they waited this long to make the announcement, as they've surely known this was going to be the case for a while now.

[quote] The specificity of the character of Fanny Brice in the musical is what made it work, even if the specificity was ultimately all about Streisand. The show DOES NOT WORK with just any talented singer/actress.

I know the show's legend is all about Streisand at this point, but to be fair, Mimi Hines played it for 18 months on Broadway after Barbra left, and Marilyn Michaels did the national tour. Both are talented, neither of them are Streisand, but they kept the curtain up.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 2012, a production of "Into The Woods" opened at the Delacorte Theater in Central Park.

Sheridan Smith was not remotely Jewish but she was very well received in the role. It can work as a commercial proposition without even the "right" star.

[quote] There's a reason Mary Martin, Anne Bancroft, Eydie Gorme and Carol Burnett weren't cast and it wasn't lack of talent.

Well, in the case of Bancroft a decision was made that she couldn’t handle the score. I’ve read that in several books.

I suspect if Bancroft wanted to do it, the score would have been tailored to her.

I know that Mimi argument has been used before, r159, but the show would have been revived sometime in the past 50 years if they could have cast "any talented singer/actress" as r155 put it. The show had legs for 18 months after Mimi left....and that was it. It's not just Barbra's imprint on the role, it's the show itself. Is it going to be a revisal?

Bancroft recognized she wasn't going to be able to handle the score, r163, which is why she dropped out.

I've no doubt that's the official line, which doesn't mean it's true.

R160-And it really, really, SUCKED. There. I said it.

[Quote] The show would have been revived sometime in the past 50 years if they could have cast "any talented singer/actress" as put it.

I don't think one can conclude that. If the show had been revived numerous times to box office failure, you could make that claim.

Why the hell *wouldn't* it be true, r166? Sheesh.

*

By the time the final decision was made to sign Bancroft, the actress had second thoughts about doing the part. She had just won an Academy Award for her role in the film version of The Miracle Worker and was unsure about playing a comic who also sings – neither of these things were her forte. Still bent on Streisand and noting Bancroft’s indecision, Jule Styne decided to help things along so he handed Bancroft a very complicated score that only a very accomplished singer could handle without embarrassment. Bancroft backed out of the show and the Starks quickly turned to Carol Burnett as their star of choice. Carol too was ready to sign when she also had second thoughts – she was concerned about the “ethnic” look required to play Brice. Upon declining the part, Carol Burnett reportedly said to Ray Stark “Hire Anne Bancroft if you want a star and Barbra Streisand if you want to make a star.” Still, Barbra, who had already auditioned for the part at the request of Jule Styne, was not an easy sell for the Starks and she was asked to audition seven more times before she was hired.

For chrissakes, r168, the point it hasn't been revived in 50 years proves my point. Why do you think it hasn't gotten a revival until now?

Fanny’s daughter apparently hated the idea of casting Streisand. Wonder if she ever changed her mind.

Hebrew is a language. Judaism is a religion. Sure the religion is handed down from generation to generation but that doesn’t make it a race. Anyone can be Jewish if they want to be.

When a Man Loves a Woman

[quote]Sheridan Smith was not remotely Jewish but she was very well received in the role.

Despite being pretty terrible in it.

Does Roundabout really anyone to re-subscribe at $530 a pop? Are they out of their minds? Or just out of subscribers and broke?

So WSS isn't coming back. Oh, boo hoo. That POS was never going to come back, anyway.

Fuck Ivo van Hove.

I saw Smith at the Menier. She wasn't right for the role. She was very winning as a performer, though. She sang the score fine, too. The audience loved her and I couldn't deny her appeal. I didn't see the cinema broadcast from when she toured it. I did see her a year or so after the Menier run, singing on the UK Dancing With The Stars. She'd put on quite a lot of weight and her singing was poor. I gather her father got a cancer diagnosis and Sheridan had a nervous breakdown.

All said, Smith proved that the show can do well commercially in markets other than New York.

Variety on the demise of the weird West Side Story.

Is this based on little faith that the film will do well?

I wonder if there's more to come about Ansel Elgort.

I bet von Hove restages it in either London or Amsterdam.

Sorry, VAN Hove.

Funny Girl will be a tough sale without a big name star and/or a complete re-write of the book. Act 2 is godawful and a complete snore.

I don't know how it's fixable. Nick Arnstein ain't shit.

If they plugged Olivia Rodrigo into a revival, it would probably do very well, similar to Radcliffe and then Jonas in the H2$ revival.

If they were writing Funny Girl now, they might include Brice's first marriage and then make Arnstein more of a Prince Charming in comparison.

Or include all three of Brice's marriages. Either way, gambler Nicky Arnstein ceases to be sympathetic.

None of that is happening. Frances Arnstein Stark was married to Ray Stark, the producer of FUNNY GIRL, and she controlled the rights to the story of Fanny and of Nick. Not the first husband. And not Billy Rose. That's how the musical came to be about the two of them. So Frances could get paid twice via two estates that she controlled.

Swapping husbands in FUNNY GIRL would be enormously difficult.

Beanie is hugely popular from Lady Bird and Booksmart.

And she's about to be in American Crime Story: Impeachment as Monica Lewinsky, which will significantly raise her profile.

But has she appeared at the Bon Soir???

I can't imagine Feldstein has the vocal stamina to play the role.

Aside from everything else -- and I do mean EVERYTHING else -- this WSS deserved to close, in my opinion, because it seems it was an unsafe work environment due to a combination of the weird staging/choreography and the fact that it rained heavily onstage for the last 15 or 20 minutes of the show. There were at least two injuries during previews -- the guy who originally played Riff (who was then replaced), and Isaac Cole Powell, who played Tony (and who was NOT replaced). Who knows how many more injuries there would have been if the run had continued?

On a related note, I recently read that Isaac got some other major film or TV job, I can't remember what. His performance, not to mention his sex appeal, was considered one of the best things about the show, so I guess that was one more reason not to reopen if he wouldn't be rejoining the cast.

Those who have the vocal stamina to handle the role either don't have the right look, aren't the right age, don't have the charisma/sense of humor, or aren't big enough names to be considered. I don't see this ending well.

Funny Girl has been announced for Broadway a couple of times in the past and has never made it.

It does seem cursed, Barbra’s a very powerful witch.

It will be fine, not great, if as stated above, Idina Menzel plays the role. Audiences like her.

The Beanie rumor will not die. If she gets it, maybe her bff Ben Splatt can be Nicky.

[quote]On a related note, I recently read that Isaac got some other major film or TV job

Damn. I was hoping he'd be free to start an OnlyFans.

I've no doubt more nudes of Isaac will leak.

That's even with the $10M boost. They must have had a very tough time. Several big musicals received that amount ($10M was the maximum) but if, even with that, shows can't reopen, I wonder if there'll be more casualties.

R193 Weren't there also reports that the chemicals in the rain were causing skin issues for the cast?

And Isaac is going to be in the Sex and the City reboot.

That should help solidify a screen career.

It must have been a brutal start up expense to give up the $10 million. Since they're not re-opening, they don't get it.

[quote]It must have been a brutal start up expense to give up the $10 million. Since they're not re-opening, they don't get it.

Are you sure about that? Although this sounded odd to me, a friend of mine told me that the money can be used to compensate these productions for losses already incurred even if they don't reopen. Anyone know the truth and the details?

Mary Martin wasn’t cast in “Funny Girl” first and foremost because she turned it down. She may have realized it wasn’t a good fit, she may have been unimpressed by the score, she may have thought she was too old—who knows? It was still the period when every producer thought they’d start by seeing if Martin was interested, as she was more versatile than Merman, a better actress, and could open a show (though she had a handful of flops, like “Jennie” and “Lute Song”). She could also have bad instincts (or Dick Halliday did, as presumably he really made the final decisions)—she famously said”Those dear boys have lost their talent,” when Lerner and Loewe played the score of “My Fair Lady” to try to interest her (she would not have been a good choice). She was also offered “Mame,” but declined-she May have not wanted a strenuous show and was turning down more and more in order to stay in the farm in Brazil next to Janet.

Beanie Whostein?

Isaac proud in his Calvins:

As to Funny Girl at the Menier: there is an undeniable charm for musical revivals that are produced there. I saw The Boyfriend at the Menier a couple of years ago and even with the cheap sets and costumes and rather mediocre cast (Janie Dee was the only name), it was truly one of the best times I've ever had in the theater in my 50+ years of attendance (I'm a native New Yorker).

Was that Funny Girl financially successful in its transfer after the Menier run? I believe The Boyfriend intended a West End run, don't know if it happened, but I can't imagine it could have succeeded anywhere but on that tiny stage, where it was truly transcendent.

Sorry about that. I tested the link before I posted and it worked fine.

R205 From R201's link:

[quote]While the grant funding can be used to cover expenses dating back to March 2020, the SBA stipulates in its application checklist that shuttered entities must include a statement of need that discloses its “the intent to reopen with an estimated reopening date.” The initial grant can only cover expenses incurred through Dec. 31, 2020.

I'm guessing there's been a lot of discussion about what "intent to reopen" means.

I'm sad about that WSS revival. I went there wanting to hate it and was totally transfixed. I'm well aware of all the hate of others but it was the only time I've been emotionally affected by any production of it, including the movie.

Is Showbiz411 reliable? They're reporting that Disney pushed for WSS to be closed, and Spielberg lobbied Geffen and Diller to do so. Seems a little far-fetched, I can't image those two willing to write off their investments, unless Disney covered the cost

Roger Friedman is a hack. Take what he says with a grain of salt.

[quote] Is Showbiz411 reliable?

No, not at all. Roger Friedman was a critic who was writing a column for FoxNews.com, and then was fired by NewsCorp after watching and reviewing a pirated version of X-Men Origins: Wolverine (a 20th Century Fox release, no less). Since then, he works out his petty grievances at his Showbiz411 site. He always warred with Rudin, so he's been covering everything gleefully, but not always truthfully. Any grain of truth in one of his columns comes smothered in lies.

good stuff r215!

and friedman's article is all wrong. he said there were no sets just video, and he says terrible over and over. Axe to grind, Roger?

[quote]While the grant funding can be used to cover expenses dating back to March 2020, the SBA stipulates in its application checklist that shuttered entities must include a statement of need that discloses its “the intent to reopen with an estimated reopening date.”

Thanks, but suppose the producers of a show did state their "intent to reopen with an estimated reopening date," but then wind up not reopening after all? Does that mean they'd have to give some or all of the money back? Somebody told me one of the shows that received grant money was the debacle TEA AT FIVE that played in Boston with Faye Dunaway before her mental illness forced it to close. Will those producers get to keep the money if the production never moves to Broadway or reopens elsewhere?

the Gaston in the new UK Beauty and the Beast looks tasty

Beanie Feldstein doesn’t wipe.

r219 we need names, darling, names!

Tom Senior.

I can only imagine what Tom Junior must look like!

It’s amazing that the producers kept Funny Girl running for months with an understudy while Sheridan Smith took time off to deal with personal issues. By all accounts the understudy has a great voice but little charm on stage.

R218 My guess - and it's an uninformed one - would be they keep the money, though I'm basing that purely on the cynical view that if they had to give up the money then they'd reopen for a week so they can get the money, then shut down.

Does it help or hurt Spielberg's film that the van Hove production's not opening?

[quote]It does seem cursed, Barbra’s a very powerful witch.

Somehow the Broadway concert version slipped by her unnoticed.

R227 = MARY!

Why would it have any effect at all, r226?

r227 - I love where Julia talks about the concert at 5:00...

This evening on Dick Cavett:

*

Muhammad Ali, Norman Mailer, Dean Jones And Madeline Khan

^ from 1970

Thanks, Rose. We thought it was a new episode.

So, Funny Girl at the Broadway, right?

[quote]Muhammad Ali, Norman Mailer, Dean Jones And Madeline Khan

Any relation?

--Genghis Khan

[quote] Thanks, Rose. We thought it was a new episode.

Only if St. Peter had a talk show.

Simply giving the year to put the guests in perspective, r233. This is when Jones was doing COMPANY and it's even pre-What's Up, Doc? regarding Madeline. I cut and pasted that from TV Guide, r235. But I do deserve an oh dear for not proofing.

Is Sheila Smith still alive? I did a show with her in the late 90s, and she was barely alive then. She was a delightful old broad, though, and I spent many a late night chain smoking and drinking bottles of Grey Goose with her.

[Quote] By all accounts the understudy has a great voice but little charm on stage.

Judge for yourself.

For me, there is only one...

Madeline...

West side story is returning their trumpbuxx

Who the fuck would pay money to see Beanie Feldstein? It's not like you're going for the music.

Lame

[quote] Who the fuck would pay money to see Beanie Feldstein? It's not like you're going for the music.

Does she have a brother named Cecil?

I think her brother is Jonah Hill.

Might they try to get a name for Nicky Arnstein? Daniel Radcliffe?

How did Nick & Nora get a cast album? I like listening to (some of) it but how did it happen with no stars in it, not commercial songwriters etc?

Wasn't the leading lady just off a Tony win?

WTF do you mean no stars? Barry Bostwick, Joanna Gleason and Chris Sarandon.

Plus 2-time Tony winner Christine Baranski (though she was not yet a TV star).

And DL fave Faith Prince.

r252 - MEN!

Plus Broadway actress/writer Debra “Pump Boys & Dinettes” Monk

But not Tony Winner Debbie Shapiro.

Plus the second Mr. Linda Lavin, Kip Niven.

Is he the one Linda divorced while doing GYPSY?

You mean Kip 'EARTHQUAKE!' Niven, r256.

He co-starred with Evie Harris IIRC.

Granted, Charles Strouse and Richard Maltby Jr. weren't/aren't household names, but it's not like Nick & Nora was their first show. There was Bye Bye Birdie, Applause, Annie, Baby, Song and Dance and Miss Saigon, to name a few, among them. How much more commercial do you want?

R257. Yup.

But for a flop musical with as I said NO STARS ?

After two months of previews, it ran a week. That’s not the sort of show that usually gets an album

Sweetie, the majority of shows got albums back then.

I believe the recording contracts were all set in place before the show opened, r263. It was a high-profile show.

Sherry! didn't. Fucking Marilyn Maye...

And there were the shows that only got a soundboard recording on vinyl...

God, I wish Lolita, My Love had been properly recorded. Great score.

Sur Les Quais!

How long did Grass Harp run?

[quote] How long did Grass Harp run?

How much weight did Barbara Cook gain before it closed?

Nick And Nora was expected to be a huge hit; in those days cast "records" were sometimes recorded before the show even opened, especially with the pedigree if Nick And Nora.

I can easily see people hiring the supremely annoying Beanie Feldstein because she fits so many "diverse" boxes with her lesbianism and overweight being so prominent. However, she won't entice suburban couples to make a trip into "the city" during this endless pandemic, and her most devoted Twitter followers have no money.

I would have gone with "girth."

Well, the Ambrose MFL had Diana Rigg for insurance. Maybe they'll get Fran Drescher for Mrs Brice?

[quote]How long did Grass Harp run?

Opened Nov. 2, 1971. Closed Nov. 6, 1971.

Damn r273 girth is indeed the right word.

Barbara Cook, Carol Brice and Karen Morrow all sound fabulous on the OCR of "The Grass Harp". Brice repeated her role on a tv abridged version of the show, too.

In what alternate galaxy is Beanie Feldsmanstein a hugely popular star?

Wasn't Kip Niven one of David Niven's sons?

The '71 On the Town obc was advertised as coming out on RCA. Back then it was recorded the first Sunday after opening. RCA must have canceled immediately because the show still ran two months. I so regret it because it was a fabulous cast and the best On the Town I ever saw. I would have so liked to have a recording of Bernadette's Hilde and Ron Hussman's Gabey.

R244 Despite their claim now, I bet once this season ends they don't resume reporting them.

Nathan and Faith weren't bankable stars when they launched that '92 Guys and Dolls and it because a monster hit, but those were different times. Peter Gallagher was their biggest name.

[quote] How did Nick & Nora get a cast album? I like listening to (some of) it but how did it happen with no stars in it, not commercial songwriters etc?

It's not on a major label, like a Columbia, RCA, MCA or Decca, which would have been the top contenders at the time. UK-based producer John Yap recorded a number of Broadway and London hits, near-hits and flops for Polydor or his own label, including On Your Toes, Baby, The Rink, Grind, the studio version of I Remember Mama, among others. N&N wasn't recorded ahead of time. Because some songs on stage were interwoven with dialogue and staging, what is heard on the cast recording had to be largely reconfigured for the studio. During the 70s, 80s and early 90s, between Yap, Hugh Fordin's DRG label, and producers Bruce Yeko and Robert Sher, almost everything that opened got recorded.

good info r283 thanks

I should add too that Yeko's label gave us The Baker's Wife, Carmelina, Is There Life After High School, One Night Stand, Onward Victoria, Do Black Patent Leather Shoes Really Reflect Up, Oh, Brother!, Prettybelle, Flowers for Algernon, So Long 174th Street, and the list goes on. Sher produced a number of those with Yeko, but also other titles on his own, like Dance a Little Closer and Sugar Babies (which went unrecorded for most of its Broadway run due to music rights issues). Sher also produced what I think might be the finest album for a flop, Rags. Even without Stratas, I think it's just fantastic. I listen to it more than many a hit. The Overture below was created for that recording.

Here’s an interesting situation.

The Shaw Festival decided to present Sondheim’s “Assassins.” In the show, John Wilkes Booth uses the “N” word.

Since they were rehearsing over Zoom, they chose not to use that word. When they came to full performance, they didn’t use the word and the licensing agent was not happy.

Honest mistake or stealth censorship?

Jennema Thwarknerl will be Fanny. She was amazing in Light in the Plaza.

[quote] The Shaw Festival decided to present Sondheim’s “Assassins.” In the show, John Wilkes Booth uses the “N” word. Since they were rehearsing over Zoom, they chose not to use that word. When they came to full performance, they didn’t use the word and the licensing agent was not happy. Honest mistake or stealth censorship?

It really has to be there. For a moment in that song, Booth is passionate, even momentarily sympathetic until the hideousness of that word snaps you out of it. We don't serve history if we attempt to cleanse it of things that might offend us. Play it as it is written, or don't do it.

What Broadway really needs right now is a starry revival of Oh, Brother! Or The First.

Agree, r288; omitting the word robs the song of its import.

And doing so, if the narrative is correct, was hardly a mistake, honest or otherwise--it was a choice, and a bad one. I'm glad the rights were pulled.

The time is ripe for Pousse-Cafe, r289.

If a producer or director wants to make a change in a piece, there is a process for doing that.

The Shaw Festival did not follow the process, its contract, or the law of copyright.

Just shut the damned production down and let the sloppy leadership at the Shaw Festival make apologies to everyone involved, especially its Board of Directors, its grantors and its donors.

When they are done... replace them.

Oh, Brother! is blissfully stupid. It was probably too juvenile to succeed on Broadway, but the sad thing is, it actually has a very good score. Michael Valenti, who wrote the music, was a particularly hard-luck talent. His three Broadway musicals - Blood Red Roses, Oh, Brother! and Honky Tonk Nights - ran a combined eight performances.

I agree "Oh, Brother!" has a really good score, and the recording has a really wonderful cast. The above-post sounds like (or was influenced by) Ken Mandelbaum, since who else uses the words "hard-luck" whenever talking about Michael Valenti and this particular work?

Who's the costume designer for Funny Girl? Is there a new Sharaff in town?

Sharaff Andy Taylor?

[quote]R108 I don't know how Barbra would react to Idina if she got the role. I mean, didn't Idina, when performing at the Kennedy Center tribute to Babs, pronounce her last name "Strei-zand"

She would have murdered my mother, who garbles stars’ names. She says “Streislund”… like Sutherlund.

Faith Prince never became a bankable star, despite getting a Tony for "Guys and Dolls". She got some work after that for a while.

NeNe Leakes is available.

[quote] r126 Even the 'aggressive competency' of a Broadway hoofer is ten times more skilful than your average West End chorus performer.

[quote]r128 I agree, and I've always wondered why that's the case. Perhaps snobbery? Musicals looked down on compared to 'real theatre', so they don't put the effort it, in case it looks like they're trying too hard?

I was friends with Patricia Michael, and she said the difference was because the U.K. is so much smaller, there’s a smaller pool of talent to draw from.

Whereas the U.S. is so big, you have tons of new hopefuls from all 50 states pouring into NYC annually who can sing, dance, act, and look good.

It’s just the odds.

Instead of "Funny Girl", why don't they do the popular British musical "Charlie Girl" instead? It has a fun score, and the leading man can be played by a pop star.

"Bean-EE Feld-STEEN; Bean-EE Feld-STEEN"...

They don't get the $10 million. The show has to reopen to get the check. They could have opened for a week, and that would have satisfied, but that would have been a major shitshow. There was really no way to do it. It wasn't going to sell tickets, or win awards that would get some sales. It goes on the shelf with Rudin's other "admirable" flops: Wild Party, Shuffle Along, and now West Side Story. Not a bad list...

I think that's really true of dancers in the UK. When I lived in London, the big new shows had some great dancers, but shows that were running for a while or weren't among the "big shows", had some mediocre and even jarringly bad dancing going on. The best dancers go to the hottest and newest shows. Bigger supply of top-notch dancers in US.

Where is "Charlie Girl" popular?

Daniel Fish's "Most Happy in Concert" got savaged by the NY Times. It sounds ghastly. Seven performers, "all female or nonbinary and sitting glumly on stools," with most songs edited or reassigned to different characters. My favorite line from the review: "The original is a heart-lifting achievement; the concert merely sucks its blood."

I wonder if this kills any chance of a further life for this misbegotten project. I will admit that I enjoyed Fish's Oklahoma! at St. Ann's Warehouse, with two major exceptions: the godawful dream ballet and the plot twist at the end that Curly shot Judd in cold-blooded murder.

"Charlie Girl" original among longest-running British musicals during 1960s then revived in the 1980s on the West End.

R306 That sounds almost as excruciating as a reading I went to where they read (without any singing) the libretto of Virgil Thomson's "Four Saints in 3 Acts". I have no idea if it's any better with music, but without any it was perfectly ghastley.

ghastly, that is.

[quote] I agree "Oh, Brother!" has a really good score, and the recording has a really wonderful cast. The above-post sounds like (or was influenced by) Ken Mandelbaum, since who else uses the words "hard-luck" whenever talking about Michael Valenti and this particular work?

It's a long time since I read Not Since Carrie. I know Mandelbaum uses the term hard-luck, but I don't remember if he says it regarding Valenti or Larry Grossman (another talented flop-prone composer). At any rate, it applies to both gentlemen!

In the 1980s, I saw the West End production of the Broadway revival of ON YOUR TOES. I had seen the Broadway revival with its original cast and a few of its replacements, so I was eager to see how it looked on the West End.

Tim Flavin played Junior and was splendid in every way. But he's a Texan.

And then there was the dance chorus. The weak technique in the dancers made each of them, individually, less than exciting. But as a group, it was a free for all.

They did their best.

The recent video production of the 42nd Street revival suggests that things have gotten a lot better in 35 years. Which is good.

The American In Paris broadcast was London as well, right?

I wish I still had the Slaughter ballet and On Your Toes clips, r311. I think they used to be on Blue Gobo.

[quote]Instead of "Funny Girl", why don't they do the popular British musical "Charlie Girl" instead? It has a fun score, and the leading man can be played by a pop star.

Why not just musicalize "Georgy Girl"?

Already been done, R314.

Richard from COMPANY could play the Alan Bates bath scene!

Why "Georgy" and not "Georgy Girl"? Cheaper to go by a different title?

I think possibly because the film's big hit theme song, "Georgy Girl," was not included? There's a number I love in Georgy called "That's How It Is." A real skirt-lifter.

Just keep your skirts down around your calves, please, R318.

Yes Georgy did not include the song Georgy Girl which you just know every audience member expected to hear and left feeling cheated.

Unfortunately the gorgeous charismatic John Castle never appeared on Broadway again much to my chagrin. I hope he had a nude scene like Bates in the film.

Interesting fact! The lyrics for "Georgy Girl" were written by Tony Award winner Jim Dale (Barnum, Joe Egg, Me and My Girl, etc.)

Who wrote the music?

I'm still waiting for the musical of "Women in Love" and the musicalized nude wrestling scene of Alan Bates and Oliver Reed -- probably plenty of "Naked Boys Singing" alum would show up for auditions.

R323 Ewww, that soon will include Aaron Carter and his misguided body art.

Did Florence Henderson ever play Fanny Brice after playing having played the other eponymous Fanny on Broadway? I mean, if Barbara Cook could play Fanny Brice, I could have seen Florence doing it.

Tats weren't in fashion in the time period of "Women in Love".

Cook only belted in one show, right?

I can live with Arlene Francis’ ridiculously over-enunciated diction in the R295 clip, until she whips out “SHE-fon” for chiffon.

Even if that’s an acceptable way to say it (somewhere), isn’t it “shiff-ON” ? ?

What’s funny is she has to say it several times and around the fourth go round her guard has relaxed, and it comes out normally.

Only actor (or actress) I can think of more than say a decade or so ago who sported a real tat (that leaves out Shirley MacLaine in "Sweet Charity") in a film was Brian Keith in "With Six You Get Eggroll" opposite Doris Day.

R327 Cook did an interesting high head voice kind of yelling/belting in both "She Loves Me" in "Where's My Shoe?" and also in "The Gay Life" during a song called "I Wouldn't Marry You". She knew technically how to sing that way so she could do it 8x a week without hurting her otherwise legit sound.

Ah, I see. I'm fairly certain she only work a bikini in one show.

*wore

Andrea on Merv...

[quote] Who wrote the music?

Tom Springfield, Dusty's brother.

It's strange that no one tried to make McArdle a pop star. Even Patty Lapone got that "Heaven Is a Disco" song.

Barbara wore a bikini in "Something More" which was the only Broadway musical of hers that wasn't officially recorded. A few audios have been floating around in recent years. She co-starred opposite Arthur Hill, who she was romantically involved. I'm not sure if the breakup of that was what led to Barbara's weight and other problems. She looked perfectly fine in the bikini back then, btw.

I never miss a Viveca Lindfors musical.

I think there's a jukebox musical about The Seekers called "Georgy Girl."

They should call it I'll Never Find Another You, r338.

They should call it "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing."

Beanie and Plattboy starring on the stage

Neither one able to play their age.

Surely Ben is an Eddie, not a Nicky.

Ben's more a Mrs. Strakosh.

Maybe the other Platt can be Nicky. Thought the London production used someone who started in reality TV.

*Though

Ben couldn't even pull off an Edie.

It wasn’t just the dancing in West End shows which was inferior to Broadway it was the musical direction/orchestra, too. That Gypsy overture in 1973 is a disaster, especially during the “Everything’s Coming Up Roses” section. The tempo is off by a mile.

[quote]Already been done, R314.

I never miss a Dilys Watling musical.

Another vote for Charlie Girl. Wouldn't that be a fun surprise to spring on New York?

Can someone remind me of a few nicknames given to flop or misguided musicals, like Close a Little Faster and Granny Get Your Gun? Thanks!

The Sound of Mucous

I worked a season that consisted of Kiss Mine, Kate, The Muzak Man, and How to Suckceed in Business.

Your typical Broadway musical commercial...

"Frozen" Oscar Winner Jennifer Lee & Alfred Molina Tie the Knot; Jonathan Groff officiates the ceremony:

[quote] Can someone remind me of a few nicknames given to flop or misguided musicals, like Close a Little Faster and Granny Get Your Gun? Thanks!

Because of all of the cast and creative firings, The Red Shoes was known as The Pink Slips.

Barbara Cook must have also belted when she played Molly Brown, a role which goes in the score from a low F (three ledger lines below the treble clef) to an Eb (top space treble clef), nearly two octaves. What Tammy G. couldn't or didn't want to hit, she talked or shouted. I bet Babs gave 'em more of the notes and her slide from belt to head in I Ain't Down Yet must have been thrilling.

[quote]It wasn’t just the dancing in West End shows which was inferior to Broadway it was the musical direction/orchestra, too. That Gypsy overture in 1973 is a disaster, especially during the “Everything’s Coming Up Roses” section. The tempo is off by a mile.

True that. To this day, I'm still amazed that recording of the overture was ever released as is. Aside from the tempo issue, there are TWO clams from the trumpets during the overture, both in the "Everything's Coming Up Roses" section.

I worked on a bad college production of "Anything Goes" that we all started calling "Anything Blows."

[quote]Can someone remind me of a few nicknames given to flop or misguided musicals, like Close a Little Faster and Granny Get Your Gun? Thanks!

Does "The Fucking Visit" count? that was its nickname on DL anyway.

THE PRINCE OF CENTRAL PARK was wittily re-titled AIN'T MISS DeHAVEN by some wags, because Gloria DeHaven originally played the lead but then dropped out.

R353 The description says there's a "surprising difference" at the end of that version of the commercial, but I'm failing to see it. Surely the addition of a voice over isn't surprising?

Glory Days, which closed on opening night, became known as Glory Day.

It's the voice over at the end. YouTube has some versions without it. Not such a big deal.

I prefer the Rich Man's Frug on the London cast recording. That may be as much for the more modern sounding stereo mix as anything. It sounds like it could have been a pop hit of the time. Normal Newell was a pop hitmaker, so that stands to reason.

IIRC, Alfred Molina met his late wife Jill Gascoine when they co-starred in the London production o f "Destry Rides Again."

Paint Never Dries.

Molina just remarried, his wife was one of the writers of Frozen.

[quote] Faith Prince never became a bankable star, despite getting a Tony for "Guys and Dolls". She got some work after that for a while.

I think for awhile Faith was trying to get into tv. You look at 90s tv and she’s guest starring all over the place. Faith sort of reminded me of Alison Fraser who was also very talented but didn’t have a huge Broadway career.

R368 Ebersole got her career.

Maimed (Mame)

Nonsense (Nunsense)

Oklahomo (because the farmers and the cow men were more effeminate than the women)

Not a musical but folks started to substitute CON OF GARBATE for GOD OF CARNAGE .

*CON OF GARBAGE, sorry.

Glengary Glenn Close -- not a musical though

LEGS!

Wasn't Into the Light, the Shroud of Turin musical, referred to as Jesus Christ Tablecloth?

Word on ATC is that people are barely checking vaccine cards at PASS OVER (I guess they are just happy anyone is attending) but it doesn't make me want to sit in a theater any time soon.

Also, that same people dodging the vaccine are probably the same people who would fake a vaccine card.

Really the only reliable check is the Excelsior Pass, but that only covers NYS.

In the 1960s Nicol Williamson was in a play called Inadmissable Evidence. It was then known in theater circles as Inexplicable Arrogance.

And I once heard Glengarry Glen Ross dubbed Gene Barry Glenn Close.

Don’t be so pedantic, R373.

[quote] Word on ATC is that people are barely checking vaccine cards at PASS OVER

I can’t wait to see how smoothly this process will work at Encores. Isn’t City Center something like 3,000 seats?

And then there was Copperfield, a.k.a. flopperfield.

R317 Back in the day, it was common to change the movie title into a new one for the musical. (Maybe so people would think they were getting something completely new and not a re-hash?) Thus, The Man Who Came to Dinner morphed to Sherry! How Green Was My Valley to A Time for Singing. The Rainmaker to 110 in the Shade. A Hole in the Head to Golden Rainbow. Henry Sweet Henry, Here's Love, Illya Darling, Zorba, Look to the Lilies, Promises Promises, Oh Captain! Etc., etc.

Look to the Lilies...

Nowadays, almost everything is a franchise extension. Studios think they can just shoehorn songs into any pre-existing movie script and create the next Oklahoma! or the next Hairspray.

The next Oklahoma, r383?

Is our favorite word 'insufferable' or 'pedantic'?

I like 'tureen'.

Our favorite word if "Follies."

Timbuktu! = "The Unthinkable Mali - Brown"

Camelsnot

In terms of being a groundbreaking success, R384.

Daniel Fish is an abominable director. Keep yer hands off the Fella.

Thank you for posting LEGS!!!!!!!

You're welcome, r392...

Modern Broadway is for people who are not good enough to direct movies.

As opposed to Classic Broadway?

Who names their kid Beanie?

They were going to name her Carrie, but found there were plenty of kids like her.

[quote]Who names their kid Beanie?

This kid's parents.

R398 She took one to many to the head.

Speaking of Glory Day(s), what has happened to Eric “Me Too! Me Too!” Schaeffer since a straight boy got him fired and disgraced?

On Dick Cavett right now: Douglas Fairbanks Jr, Chet Huntley, Raquel Welch and Janis Joplin.

[quote]Speaking of Glory Day(s), what has happened to Eric “Me Too! Me Too!” Schaeffer since a straight boy got him fired and disgraced?

And, for that matter, what has happened to the "straight boy?"

r247 perhaps they should just use pictures to draw an audience.

Raquel was talking about getting a script and always knowing that the character wasn't a virgin. Janis told her she wasn't *that* good of an actress.

Joplin was on another time with Gloria Swanson, right?

Who is in charge of the ushers? The fact that they aren't looking at vaccination cards is unacceptable.

No one knows whose job all this new checking is

[quote] As opposed to Classic Broadway? —Hal Prince, screen titan

Joshua Logan, Rouben Mamoulian, and Bob Fosse all made the transition successfully from stage to screen.

Jerome Robbins got fired.

We have Logan to blame for those damned filters?

R403 do you suppose Ramin masturbates?

Well, he ain't studying acting.

Yes, r405.

Ushers wouldn't be checking vax cards. By the time the audience gets to the ushers, they're already in the door. I can't even imagine it's the front of the house doormen who do it. I would think that, like the security guards who check bags, they would have someone stationed in front of the lobby checking cards.

Plus, how hard could it be to check cards at Pass Over? They can't be getting more than a hundred people a night.

R405, Joplin was giving side eye like crazy when Margot Kidder was talking. Yes, Gloria Swanson was also on that Cavett Show c1978.

Kidder seems stoned.

More boggling of the mind....

OH, BROTHER has exactly one decent song, I To The World, and that's it.

Not true, r417. The whole album’s delightful. Judy Kaye’s songs, especially “How Do You Want Me?” and “What Do I Tell People This Time?” “Tell Sweet Saroyana” and “That’s Him” are hilarious, and “A Loud and Funny Song” is a clever nod to “Sing for Your Supper.”

[quote] We have Logan to blame for those damned filters?

Not everybody hated them because [italic]South Pacific[/italic] still got a Best Cinematography Oscar nomination.

The producers assured Logan they could remove the filters if he wound up hating them after the movie was finished. Logan decided he did want them remove, but the company said it would be too expensive to remove them.

They did them in-camera and had to send them from Hawaii to Hollywood, so the time or money for reshoots wasn't there.

R419 also, South Pacific was the highest-grossing film of 1958.

Which surprised me why there was so much hostility toward it. The movie is about what happens when you judge people by colors, and the filters hit that point home by altering the characters' skin tones, the thing that some people are carefully taught to be afraid of, along with everyone else.

Funny how when Lt. Cable sings "Carefully Taught," he's the same color as a Smurf.

Everything else, I mean.

I think Logan was trying to replicate the colors used to enhance scenes in the stage version, which he also directed. But trying to replicate what was effective on stage in a literal medium such as film probably wasn't a good idea to begin with.

As far as I know South Pacific had the longest movie run at one theater ever. It played 4 years at the Dominion theater in London which now shows stage musicals. The film of The Sound of Music played at the same theater for a paltry 3 years.

Yes, the filters were done in camera, but the color advisor assured him there would be a way to restore the original color if necessary. 20th told him they would pay for it. But then they found out how expensive it was going to be, and they changed their minds when, in fact, Logan did end up wanting to remove them.

Presumably it can still be done with the original the negative (if it exists), or through digital means which didn't exist in 1958,. But it's still an expensive proposition, and no one foresees such an edition making back the cost.

They actually applied color filters in front of the camera lenses so those colors are embedded into the camera negative. With digital retiming it might be possible to remove the colors but it would be a massive effort which would never pay for itself, so it is unlikely to happen and the results might be iffy. (It's easy to do on still photos but a film is thousands of still photos and the colors of each would all have to match the others exactly to avoid the colors flickering.) They were idiots not to apply color tinting in the lab to the prints when they were processed instead of fucking up the negative.

The original 70mm camera negative for the shorter general release version survives in pristine condition, btw, and the blu ray is gorgeous. Unfortunately, when they made the cuts from the longer roadshow version, they either discarded or lost the footage for the cuts. There is one surviving print of the roadshow but it has faded to pink. It's still included as an extra on the blu ray.

What I'd like to know is exactly how the color filters were done. I know you said the were in front of the lenses but at the end of the Some Enchanted Evening scene a servent comes to tell Nellie her car has come for her. She is snapped out the the reverie she is in and the gold filter disappears and the scene goes to its natural color. There is no cut. The color simply vanishes. I winder how this was done.

Rodgers and Hammerstein must have liked it because they were in charge and they were God. Logan had little say next to them.

'wonder'

The filters were on a wheel in front of the camera, turn the wheel and the filter changed or disappeared.

^ And some of the filters, including the clear ones, blended into each other, they didn't necessarily have sharp edges.

Again, what a stupid, stupid thing to do. They've been tinting movie scenes in the lab since the beginning of silents.

Yes the scenes without the filters are gorgeous and intoxicating not that there are many of them. Still they had no effect on the films popuarity and box office.

I hate them.

I agree that the general public didn't mind them. My grandmother liked them, and she was as typical a moviegoer as you could find in the 50s.

I like the filters.

There, I said it!

They break up the monotony of yet another gorgeous picture postcard day in the South Pacific. They are evidence of a film maker reaching and thinking and being creative. They're not perfect and they work better in some scenes than in others. They are probably too intense. The idea would have worked much better if the filters had only lightly tinted the scenes. But they remain a very bold and interesting experiment.

But there is much to like about them, if you still have the ability to like things. There is no need to be pinched and sour and swimming in bile about creative decisions made over 60 years ago.

The reverse happened to the film of Oklahoma! The scene where Jud drives Laurey to the box social in the surrey was filmed in daylight but the original release prints had that scene tinted blue to suggest twilight. The film was restored for its blu ray release and the tinting wasn't done.

They got some of the tinting wrong in the opening shots on the blu ray of West Side Story too. The disc was withdrawn to be fixed but when it was re-released, the tinting was different but still doesn't match the original prints.

oh damn Follies already

Except for The King And I and The Sound Of Music, R&H movie adaptations aren’t really worth watching.

R438 Oklahoma drags a bit, but it's mostly very good. Carousel, on the other hand, is awful. Not sure it would have been any better with Frank and Judy (the original first choices), but it certainly would have been more interesting than Gordon and Shirley. But whoever had the idea of starting the movie with Billy in heaven was a moron.

Not that it's an adaption but I like State Fair a lot. And I do like Flower Drum Song. Also It gets props for an entirely non causasian cast when films were still casting caucasians in non white roles. Well except for a few of the male dancers in Grant Avenue and I guess there really weren't enough Asian male dancers at the time in LA. I did hear it's coming out in bluray in the fall and I hope it's a good transfer. Some of the score is prime R&H.

I was pretty stunned by the Todd AO version of Oklahoma!, which came out seven or eight years ago. It's not just like seeing a different film, it IS a different film. For those that don't know, Oklahoma! was filmed with two different types of cameras: 35mm for CinemaScope and 70mm for Todd AO. They would shoot a scene first with the Todd AO cameras, then change the camera and shoot the same scenes again for CinemaScope. At the time of the film's release, not many theatres were equipped with Todd AO projectors, so the CinemaScope version is the one most people have seen over the last 70 years. Todd AO shot at 30 frames per second versus 24 for standard cameras, so the colors of the Todd AO version are lush and vibrant. All of the performances in the Todd AO version are livelier, because they were the first takes. The Todd AO version was restored and released on BluRay, along with the CinemaScope version and is worth checking out.

[quote}The producers assured Logan they could remove the filters if he wound up hating them after the movie was finished. Logan decided he did want them remove, but the company said it would be too expensive to remove them.

[quote}They did them in-camera and had to send them from Hawaii to Hollywood, so the time or money for reshoots wasn't there.

I know this is what we have been told, but I don't get it. How did they do the tinting "in camera?"

[quote]I think Logan was trying to replicate the colors used to enhance scenes in the stage version, which he also directed. But trying to replicate what was effective on stage in a literal medium such as film probably wasn't a good idea to begin with.

I highly doubt that any scenes in the original were bathed in highly saturated primary colors.

[quote]The original 70mm camera negative for the shorter general release version survives in pristine condition, btw, and the blu ray is gorgeous. Unfortunately, when they made the cuts from the longer roadshow version, they either discarded or lost the footage for the cuts. There is one surviving print of the roadshow but it has faded to pink. It's still included as an extra on the blu ray.

But, as seen on the Blu-Ray, almost all of that extra footage is superfluous and basically worthless except for a few additional seconds of the "Bloody Mary" song and, arguably, a few more scenes of that hot guy who played Stewpot wearing nothing but a pair of shorts no more substantial than a Speedo :-)

[quote]They break up the monotony of yet another gorgeous picture postcard day in the South Pacific. They are evidence of a film maker reaching and thinking and being creative. They're not perfect and they work better in some scenes than in others.

You have a good point that Loan and the DP deserve credit for attempting to be creative, but of course, that doesn't mean the result was pleasing. In this case, even the director himself decided before the release of the film that the tinting was a big mistake.

[quote]But there is much to like about them, if you still have the ability to like things. There is no need to be pinched and sour and swimming in bile about creative decisions made over 60 years ago.

Umm, BOTH camps are arguing about a decision that was made more than 60 years ago. Is it only permissible to do so if you think the tinting was a good idea rather than a horrendous one?

[quote]But whoever had the idea of starting the movie with Billy in heaven was a moron.

I'm sure many people agree with you, but I don't. Imagine you were seeing the movie of CAROUSEL for the first time, having no idea of the plot. I think you would be intrigued by the fact that this fellow who's polishing stars in heaven (or purgatory) is told that there's trouble with his family on earth. It's arguably far more interesting and more of a "hook" for the movie than starting with the scene of Julie meeting Billy for the first time at the carousel. And if you're about to say "But opening the movie that way removes all tension from the story," I disagree with that as well, because we still don't know why he's there or how he died.

Speaking of Streisand and Funny Girl, I just read Smash, the 1980 novel by Funny Girl's credited director, Garson Kanin. Several people here had recommended it as a thinly veiled tell-all about his experiences on Funny Girl. A few others said it was the basis for the TV show Smash, which it definitley is not.

I actually thought it was pretty bad and at 522 pages, WAY too long. At times, it reads like a lesser version of Valley of the Dolls. It's the tale of a production assistant Midge, and it chronicles her sex life and experiences watching a show come together called "Shine On Harvest Moon" about the real-life vaudeville star Nora Bayes, who introduced "Shine On." There are a few parts of the book that may have been inspired by Funny Girl. The two songwriters are adamantly opposed to adding two of Nora's original hit songs to the score...just as Styne and Merrill fought adding any of Fanny's original songs. The star of the show is only referred to as "Star" (which gets old very fast) and she is angry that two supporting characters are getting ovations for a song called "Big Town." I assume this is based on "Who Taught Her Everything She Knows." In Smash, Star bitches, "I don't give a fuck who gets a hand or has a number to do. Shit, I can't do them all! I'm doing too much as it is!" Her beef is the placement of the number before a dull scene that she has to play. "What the hell have you got that number right in front of my dreariest scene in the whole goddam show? That scene is never going to get any better because it's horseshit to begin with." The director's response: "I'm giving you a hot stage. But you're so tied up in your own ego, you down see it. You're not taking advantage of it. You're sulking though the scene, so of course it's dreary, and it always will be dreary. Why don't you try PLAYING if a few performances?" Star has director approval, and this little lecture does not go down well.

If Kanin really did talk to Streisand like this, maybe that would explain why Jerry Robbins was brought in to save the show.

Yes, the Flower Drum Song movie features a performance by that great Chinese American, Juanita Hall.

If I remember correctly, Logan said in his bio that he realized the colors were a disaster, but that the producers had fallen in love with the idea, and refused to go back.

R442, the tinting was done with filters.

Filters are used unobtrusively all the time. The time, they were obtrusive.

r442 is insufferable.

Garson Kanin was a fascinating and controversial figure of 20th century show business. A highly successful writer and director who also had more than his share of flops. Loved and revered by many big stars but also dismissed (if not worse) by others. I remember reading an infamous Rex Reed interview with Shirley Knight in which she called him the worst director she'd ever worked with.

And there's always that controversy over whether he was gay and closeted or happily married to Ruth Gordon and, eventually, Marian Seldes.

Is there a definitive bio of him out there I'm missing?

Robbins was attached to Funny Girl very early on but didn't like the direction the book was taking and eventually left Fosse was briefly involved but he quit too and was replaced by Kanin. A month or two before the show was due to open in New York, Streisand demanded to have Rrobbins back and Styne supported her. Goodbye Garson, Hello Jerry. Robbins wasn't much involved with the actual choreography; Carol Haney did that. He concentrated on fixing the structure and overall pacing of the show, which fallen apart. When he came back he was uncredited.

NBC bought the rights to Kanin's novel when they realized it contained not only the title they wanted but the same overall theme of creating a Broadway musical. It was just a legal move to prevent any copyright infringement claims from Kanin's estate or his publisher.

Thank you for your microscopic contribution, R444.

Juanita Hall had a very mixed ancestry. She wasn't Asian, but she wasn't white, either. Nancy Kwan's racial purity probably doesn't pass muster for you. Her mother was of English and Scottish descent. So you missed picking that little nit. You might also want to lecture us on what it is to be "Asian."

In the end, it matters very little. EVERY role in the play is Asian and every actor except Hall (and possibly Kwan, depending on how you cut it) was Asian. However, Miyoshi Umeki and James Shigeta were Japanese, NOT Chinese, so that's pretty damned ballsy of them to take these star-making roles from Chinese actors. Ditto Reiko Sato. She's so Japanese, she got locked up in the American internment camps in World War II. And what the fuck was that Filipino Patrick Adiarte doing in this film? Some nerve. Maybe it was because of his peerless dancing. Oh, well. They are actors and should be given some reasonable leeway to stretch themselves and their craft. Did the producers have something against actors from India? They are Asian, too, ya know.

FLOWER DRUM SONG was the first Hollywood film with to look at an Asian story with Asian characters and played by Asian (Well... No, not going into that again.) actors in the roles. It did not happen again until THE JOY LUCK CLUB, a full 32 years later. FLOWER DRUM SONG viewed from a distance of 60 years has all sorts of things that can seem odd or uncomfortable. But the casting is just not one of those things. It was absolutely revolutionary and should be even more greatly applauded today.

[quote] he Todd AO version was restored and released on BluRay, along with the CinemaScope version and is worth checking out.

r441, does any of the streamers have the Todd-AO version? Is there any way to tell?

R466, if the tinting was done with filters over the lens, how did they, for example, achieve that moment after "Some Enchanted Evening" when the scene suddenly pops from a deep, saturated, filtered color (I think it's amber) to natural, unprocessed color in a split second, without a cut in the film? I think the tinting effect must have been done with some sort of tinting method after the scenes were filmed, but maybe it's possible that more than one process was used throughout the movie?

R450, I'm with you on FLOWER DRUM SONG. Very well put.

R447 contributes nothing to any discussion other than predictably and invariably labeling my posts as "insufferable."

R452, I answered your questions about how the filters worked at r431 and r432.

Thanks, R453, but I still don't understand. In that moment after "Some Enchanted Evening" when the color suddenly pops from saturated amber (or whatever) to normal, does that look to you like someone "turned a wheel" in front of the camera to remove the filter in a split second? That sure isn't what it looks like to me. Regardless of what anyone has said, my guess remains that all of the scenes were filmed normally and then some of them were tinted after the fact in the lab, though of course I'm not sure.

R418 I also love "(What is) A Man" and "Everybody Knows Me By My Name" from "Oh, Broher!" Delightful score. The word was when that show was previewing the same time as "Merrily We Roll Along" one of the young actors in "Merrily" was worried. "Everybody loved 'Oh, Brother!" and it flopped. But everybody hates us -- what's to become of us?"

R429 Just watch "South Pacific" on a black and white tv set. Color filters problem solved! And it looks like a '40s war movie that way, too!

Doesn't anybody remember these color removal tests on Youtube?

[quote]Regardless of what anyone has said, my guess remains that all of the scenes were filmed normally and then some of them were tinted after the fact in the lab, though of course I'm not sure.

You're sure about covid vaccinations, either? Right?

For fuck's sake. If there is anything that has been cussed, discussed, documented, proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, admitted, acknowledged or owned about the film SOUTH PACIFIC, it's those fucking filters.

That you come up with the wrong answer is no surprise to me. But that you rely on a "guess" is fascinating to me. You don't have to guess on this one, Honeybun. There is no mystery. It is amply documented. Earth to R454... come in R454. Do your homework and stop walking around in confusion made of your own laziness.

[quote]

Thanks, [R453], but I still don't understand. In that moment after "Some Enchanted Evening" when the color suddenly pops from saturated amber (or whatever) to normal, does that look to you like someone "turned a wheel" in front of the camera to remove the filter in a split second?

Yes, that's exactly what it looks like to me. You didn't have to give the wheel a big rotation, just a quick quarter turn from the amber filter to no (or clear} filter.

[quote]That sure isn't what it looks like to me. Regardless of what anyone has said, my guess remains that all of the scenes were filmed normally and then some of them were tinted after the fact in the lab, though of course I'm not sure.

The use of the filters is so well documented by people who were there and technical journals at the time you should be embarrassed.

[quote]Just watch "South Pacific" on a black and white tv set.

Do they still make black-and-white TV sets?

R439 Just watch "Carousel" the other day. Gordon MacRae's singing really is gorgeous in the film. Shirley Jones hadn't progressed yet as an actress, as there's hardly any subtext or thinking going on with her. Her singing is fine, though not particularly outstanding. Claramae Turner sounds wonderful though as Nettie. Barbara Ruick, a very charming singer/actress, for some reason doesn't come off as a standout as good Carries usually do, though they cut her part a bit. I love her on the studio recording of "Oh, Kay!" (fun fact -- she was film composer John Williams' wife until her early death). I notice some of the camerawork and lighting in the film are really questionable -- not showing MacRae's facial reactions, but keeping him in shadows during much of the Soliloquoy, etc. Robert Rounseville as Snow also sounds nice, though his acting is not that convincing. Susan Luckey and Jacques D'Amboise's dancing is great, Luckey particularly wonderful in this (and love her Zaneeta in "Music Man" too).

But Julie and Louise's lines about someone hitting you and you not feeling it, they just don't work nowadays. It just underscores that Billy is a wife-beater. I don't think Frank Sinatra would be physically imposing as Billy (unless he had a few tough looking guys who might be carrying guns nearby in addition to Jigger whenever he's on-screen). Garland would have made a wonderful Julie. I could see someone like Judy Holliday being a wonderful Carrie, but its' a secondary role and Holliday was starring on Broadway in "Bells Are Ringing" at the time.

it's, that is

[quote] Do they still make black-and-white TV sets?

I don't think so but almost all TVs have a way to adjust the intensity of the color and usually if you turn it all the way down, you're left with a black and white image.

[quote]one of the young actors in "Merrily" was worried. "Everybody loved 'Oh, Brother!" and it flopped. But everybody hates us -- what's to become of us?"

I guess he or she didn't know at the time it was a rhetorical question. Though apart from Jason Alexander the kids themselves were pavement-splatter afterwards, of course.

The guy who played Heavenly Friend in "Carousel" William Le Massena was in the nudie play "Grin and Bare It" about 15 years later, along with David Christmas from "Dames at Sea". Le Massena had acted with, among other people, the Lunts on Broadway. Alfred Lunt was curious about what it was like to act naked on stage and La Massena said something like, you keep thinking you have pockets to put your hands in, and then you find you don't. Lynn Fontanne was kind of appalled apparently though.

[quote] Though apart from Jason Alexander the kids themselves were pavement-splatter afterwards, of course.

Giancarlo Esposito did okay for himself, too.

Michael Valenti, the composer of Oh Brother, told me that Hal Prince was watching a preview performance from the back of the house, and asked him, “is this your first hit?”

I remember that when Oh Brother was rehearsing, there was a rumor circulating that it was a musical parody of the Iranian hostage crisis, which was happening at that time.

So did Jim Walton, Lonny Price, Liz Calloway, Ann Morrison and Tonya Pinkins. They may not be household names but they've all managed to sustain careers.

Tonya Pinkins and Lonny Price also did quite well after surviving "Merrily" as a floperoo. Jim Walton, while doing some small roles among other things, continued working quite a bit, too.

R458 and R459, is it true that the exact method of color filtering those scenes in SOUTH PACIFIC was well documented at the time, or is it all just anecdotal evidence after the fact? It seems clear that Logan himself, for example, didn't understand exactly how it was done.

P.S., however those effects were achieved, it was foolishly done in a way that would make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to remove the color filtering even with modern digital methods. Because it's not only that the the hues of the scenes keep changing, it was also decided to blur the edges of the screen for certain scenes in order to add to the "dream-like" effect. And further than that, some of the scenes, like the "Bali H'ai" scene, have smoke or mist wafting across the screen, and that makes it extremely difficult to correct the color through digital methods.

Michael Musto is saying Beanie is Fanny.

Well everyone said Funny Girl needed a BIG star....

Do producers of "Funny Girl" want to get people to buy tickets though?

Cock-eyed...

[quote]...and that makes it extremely difficult to correct the color through digital methods.

Especially in 1958!

R474, I thought it was obvious that I meant EVEN TODAY, with modern digital methods available, it would be very difficult to color-correct those sequences. I didn't think I needed to spell it out....

R470, I mentioned earlier in the thread it's fairly easy to make color timing adjustments to a single photo but a film is thousands of sequential images and if the colors don't all match exactly, the color will flicker or blur. It might be done but at such a cost no one would pay to have it done. It would be a massive undertaking to do it right.

[quote] Do producers of "Funny Girl" want to get people to buy tickets though?

Apparently not, R472, apparently not...

[R320]: I saw “Georgy” in its Boston tryout. It was entertaining, but its lead, Ms. Watling, wasn’t overweight, like Lynn Redgrave in the movie, but quirky, which really deflated the whole point. John Castle was sweet, but really didn’t have much to do. (And, like Alan Bates, he did strip down to his tighty-whities. Also like Alan Bates, not a gym body.)

Watling was relentlessly cute. What stood out for me was Melissa Hart, as her self-centered roommate, whose solo, “Gettin’ Back to Me,” was the best song in the show, even though it made abandoning your child a fun thing. And I liked a song between Georgy’s father and his wealthy employer, singing about the old days, as couples in evening clothes appear, waltzing around them.

I certainly would have bought a cast album, had it ever been released. But the lyrics were not credited to Jim Dale, but to Carole Bayer, who later added the name, Sager.

Maybe audiences expected to hear the popular movie’s song, though there was a kind of cutesy title number. (Years later, audience expectations pressured producers to add the movie’s “Somewhere My Love” to the score for the musical, “Doctor Zhivago.” Which otherwise has a lovely score. I saw it, twice, at the La Jolla Playhouse.)

Jim Dale did the lyrics to the movie's famous title song, not the Broadway show.

There should be a decent, well-researched bio of Garson Kanin, as well as one of Josh Logan. Moss Hart got his, but I think the day is past when books about either of those gents would sell.

Couldn't it be done via a variation of the same means as the colorization of b/w films and shows? Not sure anyone would bother, but that tech has been around for a long time now.

^ the de-filtering of SP not the GK bio ^ ^

How many sequences of color filtering are there (and actual screen time) in the film of "South Pacific"?

And colorization has improved tremendously but applying it to 70mm film presents unique problems.

[quote] [R441], does any of the streamers have the Todd-AO version? Is there any way to tell?

I don't know if the Todd AO version is available to stream. But the difference between the versions is really noticeable. Here is a YouTube video that stacks the Todd AO over the Cinemascope version.

WOKE-LAHOMA!

[quote]Maybe audiences expected to hear the popular movie’s song, though there was a kind of cutesy title number. (Years later, audience expectations pressured producers to add the movie’s “Somewhere My Love” to the score for the musical, “Doctor Zhivago.

And the opening chords and finger snaps to The Addams Family from the TV version.

Just let Daniel Fish re-edit SOUTH PACIFIC.

That should do it.

I saw this when it came out on video in the 1990s. It's about farmer Jud battling cowboy Curly for the attentions of farmhand Laurie. They both want to take him to the "big box" social. It actually kind of follows the plot of the original with sex scenes substituted for the songs.

Sorry, ignore what I posted at R485. I got them wrong, the Todd-AO was on the bottom, but it looks washed out there, next to the oversaturated CinemaScope version. Here is a good look at the Todd-AO "Oh, What a Beautiful Mornin'"

[quote] not showing MacRae's facial reactions, but keeping him in shadows during much of the Soliloquoy, etc.

Was that done because he was rushed into production after Sinatra quit and was several pounds overweight?

Re: OKLAHOMA

[quote]does any of the streamers have the Todd-AO version? Is there any way to tell?

There are several ways to tell, the easiest being the opening credits. The Todd-AO opens with the credits in red letters on a black background, whereas in the Cinemascope version, they are superimposed over landscape scenes.

The Todd-AO has an aspect ratio of 2.20:1, whereas the Cinemascope's ratio is 2.55:1. Therefore, the black bars on your TV would be much larger and the image narrower for the Cinemascope.

Checking the streaming versions on both Movies Anywhere and iTunes, the Todd-AO also features the overture and so has a longer run time (2:28 vs. 2:20). The Todd-AO is the "default" version on both services, with the Cinemascope version included as an extra. Amazon Prime is streaming an older, unrestored print of the Todd-AO (which is not recommended, as can be seen in the video posted at R485).

Wikipedia claims that the Todd-AO version is streaming on Disney+, but, since I don't have Disney+, I am unable to verify that.

Enough with the movie bullshit. Who cares?

R476, I understand your point, but obviously, modern computerized methods have made it relatively easy and cost effective to render black and white films into color in the digital domain, even with thousands of consecutive frames. So, in that sense, it shouldn't be any more difficult to convert the tinted sequences in SOUTH PACIFIC into full color to match the surrounding scenes......except that, as I said, it WOULD be much more difficult to do this with most of the tinted scenes in that particular movie because, in several scenes, there are also the issues of blurring at the edges of the screen and/or added smoke or mist.

[quote] Checking the streaming versions on both Movies Anywhere and iTunes, the Todd-AO also features the overture and so has a longer run time (2:28 vs. 2:20). The Todd-AO is the "default" version on both services, with the Cinemascope version included as an extra.

I just checked Disney+ and it's 2:28. The beginning has the Overture and red titles over a black background, as R492 mentioned, so it appears to be the Todd-AO version.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1943, "Run, Little Chillun" opened at the Hudson Theatre.

[quote]How many sequences of color filtering are there (and actual screen time) in the film of "South Pacific"?

Many sequences, and a huge percentage of screen time.

[quote]Colorization has improved tremendously but applying it to 70mm film presents unique problems.

Seeing as how colorization is always done in the digital domain, that makes no sense. It's just as easy to digitally colorize a digitized version of a 70mm film as a 35mm film -- if not even easier, because of the increased resolution. It sounds like you think colorization is done photographically in the film domain, which of course is dead wrong.

What Shakespeare in the Park Means for Post-Pandemic New York City:

[quote]“Gettin’ Back to Me,” was the best song in the show, even though it made abandoning your child a fun thing.

Intriguing. Is it a belt number? I only do belt numbers.

“ Director Joshua Logan wanted these filters to produce subtle changes, but 20th Century Fox, the company that would distribute the 35mm version, made them extreme changes; since tickets to the film were pre-sold (it was a roadshow attraction), there was no time to correct this.”

“ The three-hour version, long feared lost, was rediscovered in a 70mm print owned by a collector. This print was screened in Bradford, England at the National Museum of Photography, Film, and Television on March 14, 2005.[8] When Fox (which by that time owned partial distribution rights to the film, including home video) learned of the print's existence, it took it to the United States to reinstate the fourteen missing minutes and attempt to restore as much of the color as possible.”

Imelda's Moments...

Into the Woods is going to be on at The Old Vic in London next year.

[quote]The three-hour version, long feared lost, was rediscovered in a 70mm print owned by a collector. This print was screened in Bradford, England at the National Museum of Photography, Film, and Television on March 14, 2005.[8] When Fox (which by that time owned partial distribution rights to the film, including home video) learned of the print's existence, it took it to the United States to reinstate the fourteen missing minutes and attempt to restore as much of the color as possible.”

That last part is not completely correct. The cut footage was re-inserted into the film and the complete road show version was released to home video years ago on DVD. But the color was not restored to those faded scenes, even though it would be relatively easy to do so, just as several movies originally filmed in black and white -- for example, IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE and MARCH OF THE WOODEN SOLDIERS -- have been digitally colorized.

Also, to repeat, IMHO most of the restored footage is superfluous. The only musical sequences that have been restored are a few more seconds of the "Bloody Mary" number and the "Some Enchanted Evening" reprise after the "born on the opposite sides of the sea duet." (I'm convinced the reason why the latter was cut to begin with is that, when he launches into the reprise of the big tune, Rossano Brazzi makes a very large, melodramatic gesture with his arm that comes across as quite comical.)

Going back to Funny Girl, I guess they're really banking on Impeachment: American Crime Story being enough of an event and/or star-making. "People are talking about Beanie Feldstein."

[quote] "People are talking about Beanie Feldstein."

Not necessarily in a positive way, of course.

thank you r492 and r495.

Who in the world is Beanie Feldstein?

It's Beanie so FU r7 and other doubters or rude folks who don't know shit

[quote]And a revised book by Harvey Fierstein.

Yeah, that will solve all the show's book problems.

I loved her in Booksmart.

And, of course, she’s playing Mary in the film of Merrily We Roll Along which will be filmed over a period of years and released around 2040.

I also thought she was great in Booksmart.....But I still have no desire to see it. On more important DL news, how is Lea Michele doing this morning?

R511 Though they could film all of Ben's scenes in about six months given how rapidly he's aging.

Oh my god, please stop having Harvey re-write books ...

I just want to be loved. Is that so wrong?

Let it go, Hawve.

BEANIE WAS JUST OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED AS FANNY.

There goes the neighborhood.

WE SEE YOU WHITE COLORIZED TODD-AO DIGITIZED AMERICAN THEATER!

[quote]And a revised book by Harvey Fierstein.

I wonder where in FUNNY GIRL he'll insert gay and/or drag queen characters? There are such characters in EVERY show he has written or rewritten with the exception of NEWSIES, and he probably would have thrown them in there as well if he thought he could get away with it.

Maybe Eddie Ryan will be gay in this version? Seriously, I wouldn't doubt it.

Who's playing Nicky? Randy Rainbow?

Eddie Ryan will be played by Ian Armitage.

[quote] I wonder where in FUNNY GIRL he'll insert gay and/or drag queen characters? There are such characters in EVERY show he has written or rewritten with the exception of NEWSIES, and he probably would have thrown them in there as well if he thought he could get away with it.

Mrs. Strakosh will have a dick.

With Steve Buscemi as Flo Ziegfeld.

r517 all caps for something that was posted 9 posts earlier?

Sorry, R524, I'm on a dial-up. Schmuck.

Beanie Feldstein to Star in First Broadway Revival of "Funny Girl":

Barbra is breathing a big sigh of relief.

And Lea Michele is shrieking unintelligible shit at her toddler, something about singing at Radio City Music Hall.

Beanie gets fatter in every photo.

So I guess we’re going for a ‘body positive’ message?

So Nick will be re-written as a chubby chaser? And Harvey will play Fanny's mother? And Andy Rannells will play Nick? And Jonathan Groff will play Mrs. Strakosh?

What will they do to make fanny look pregnant?

Is Ryan Murphy still producing this revival? When it was initially in “planning stages” with Lea Michelle and she played the role on Glee a few years ago, he had mentioned that he was producing a stage revival. Now that Beanie is his new toy, is he the producer, as well?

Casting notice for the Funny Girl ensemble apparently requires men to be no shorter than 6’0” and women no taller than 5’8”.

Oops, I meant women no shorter than 5’8”.

HEIGHTIST!

CANCELED!

[quote] Beanie Feldstein to Star in First Broadway Revival of "Funny Girl":

Did Idina drop out?

Well, Beanie's certainly got the "underdog" vibe right....

Just in: Tony Awards to take place at the Winter Garden Theatre.

FOLLIES!

Tituss Burgess Joins "Annie Live" for NBC:

Tituss is playing Annie, of course

Would Jackie Hoffman deign to be Mrs. Strakosh? Because she ain’t got the warmth to be Mrs. Brice.

I can see Derek Klena as Nicky.

Titus was nominated six times for that minstrel show character??

R533 No, Sonia Friedman, the Menier Chocolate Factory and Scott Landis are producing. And despite Menier being a producer, it's stated it is not a transfer of that production.

Is anyone stupider than Scott Landis?

so at r541 Hollywood Reporter is saying it's an EXCLUSIVE! Srsly news about Tituss Burgess in Annie ranks as a SCOOP?

Will they change the title to “Fatty Girl”?

Fran Stark would be horrified.

[quote]Moss Hart got his

My Mossy even got a biopic with George Hamilton!

[quote]Did Idina drop out?

I think she aged out.

The real Fanny Brice is going to have to gain about 50 pounds for this revival to work.

youtube has a very good print of A Double Life. I didn't know it was written by Garson and Ruth and produced by Kanin productions. It looks like early noir which is interesting for a George Cukor picture. It's another movie which gives you the pleasure of seeing Shelley Winters done away with. Coleman doing anything is a pleasure even when he is being psychologically tortured by a Shakesperian role.

The opening must be seen for the mid 1940s shots of the theater district including the long gone Astor Hotel and the north section of west 45th street which still existed until that cancerous growth the Marriott Marquis was put up.

R545, this production is being directed by Michael Mayer who directed the Menier/West End production. So if it’s not a transfer it’s damn close to being one.

'Colman'

[quote] that cancerous growth the Marriott Marquis

You are being too kind. The Marriott Marquis is worse than cancer.

Even Rolling Stone is trolling Lea

[quote]Sorry Lea, Beanie got the gig of your dreams: She'll tackle Fanny Brice in the upcoming Broadway revival of 'Funny Girl.'

R553 I know, but the Vulture article specifically said this is a new production and not a transfer

It's important that Fanny have some sex appeal. Don't they get that?

I seriously hope Lea cunts Beanie hard in a tweet.

Anybody else read James Lapine’s new book about the making of Sunday In The Park? I devoured it yesterday in one sitting. Fascinating, dishy, I guess you could also call it brave because it makes it clear that pretty much everyone couldn’t stand him as a person or as a Director. After finishing it I had to add myself to that list.

What a HOG!

[quote]this production is being directed by Michael Mayer who directed the Menier/West End production. So if it’s not a transfer it’s damn close to being one.

The Menier/West End production also featured a revised book by (ta da!) Harvey Fierstein. But since the choreography and designs will be by different folk, I guess it's technically not a "transfer".

Since the rumors turned out to be true about Beanie, does that mean we'll be getting Ramin as Nicky Arnstein? Now THAT would be enough to make me buy a ticket.

Rebel Wilson will be Tuesday night Fanny.

Chrissy Metz will headlining the national tour.

Nathan for Nicky!!!!

Did Beanie swallow Chrissy whole? Like she can live for a year now without another meal? So Irene Sharaff is going to be replaced by Backcountry Tents & Shelters?

There's enough of Beanie to play both Fanny and Nicky... and maybe Mrs. Strakosh too

Beanie is a meeskite.

[quote]Anybody else read James Lapine’s new book about the making of Sunday In The Park? I devoured it yesterday in one sitting. Fascinating, dishy, I guess you could also call it brave because it makes it clear that pretty much everyone couldn’t stand him as a person or as a Director. After finishing it I had to add myself to that list.

I haven't read the book, but I'm already on that list. I imagine that, if I do read the book, it will only move me higher up on it :-)

Nobody could stand the divine Lapine?

Even his wife and boyfriends hate him.

Dixie!

So everyone hates him but Sondheim?

The revisions Harvey made for the Menier FG didn't help it a bit. And SS for all of her talent wasn't a superstar when she sang. Have we ever heard Beanie sing a heartfelt ballad?

Fanny sings Meadowlark...

Oh, this is going to be *the* hate-watch production of '21-'22.

R574, what a bore

[Quote] Oh, this is going to be *the* hate-watch production of '21-'22.

Yeah, keep wishing

Will they be keeping these two songs?

[quote]Fanny sings Meadowlark...

She's no Patti LuPone.

She doesn't have a *sound*, r579. For a star role, you need a *sound*.

Not only doesn't she have a "sound," R579, she also doesn't have a "look." "Funny Girl" must have a "look."

Link to the (premature) next thread.

Wow, R582, you jumped the gun this early for THAT?

I was just providing the link to the new thread. I didn't create it, R583.

Amanda kloots joining waitress cast?

Gotta say, in the minutes before this thread is over (and before everyone gives me 'hall monitor' bullshit), the witless trashy comments about Beanie's weight are pathetic. (I'm looking at you r561). A soupçon of cleverness would be one thing, but right now, DL, you disappoint.

r582/r584 you did the right thing. 15 posts before the end is just right, since the last few threads are always fast. r583, chill.

Ciao.

Was the London choreographer replaced because she was bad, or because diversity?

Oh, to be a fly on the wall at Barbra's mall ...

The thing with Funny Girl is that not a lot happens. She becomes a star in two seconds, and then the rest is her troubles with Nicky. Soap opera stuff. The onstage comedy numbers aren't that funny (unless the idea of 'Private Schwartz from Rockaway' sends you into stitches). The show is held together by a performer with a lot of charisma and a huge voice. I don't care a whit that Beanie Feldstein is a big girl. She IS charismatic. But I am not sure that that voice is enough. We all know Barbra sang the shit out of that score, but replacement Mimi Hines and Marilyn Michaels for the national tour also possessed rich, lustrous voices to do justice to those songs. If Beanie could even sing as well as Mimi Hines, I'd say bring it on. But she can't. It's a small, nasal voice, with no depth or richness. And let's face it, you go to Funny Girl to hear the songs - the good ones, I mean.

R589 nails it.

[quote] everyone couldn’t stand him as a person or as a Director. After finishing it I had to add myself to that list.

r560, it sounds like you liked the book, but what comes through to make you hate Lapine?

His personality

My 20 year old niece is going CRAZY that Beanie is doing this show. I had to google her. Maybe the youngins think she's talented? I agree that the voice in no way matches the score. I don't know what the show is without thrilling singing.

Um, if this is her, we're in BIG trouble...

By comparison, here's Marilyn Michaels singing "The Music That Makes Me Dance." Compare and contrast.

That dog will be all of us once she takes the stage. Hopefully without her hand gripping us so tightly that her knuckles are turning white.

[quote]Continue with the Fanny casting.

Is fanny casting anything like breast casting?

BEANIE BAJOUR!

FELDSTEINS FOLLIES!

IN BEANIE’S EYES!