Britney Spears singing “I Have Nothing” by Whitney back in 1997

[Quote] She got the record deal because the label felt her thin vocals and tone and style of singing were what they needed because no one on the radio sounded like her at the time

I guess Diane was no longer getting radio play...

Diane?

Give it a rest with Britney threads fat brooklyn tiktok troll.

We don’t care.

Turn in your gay card R2.

Stop with the Diana Ross disrespect. Old white fag at R1 & R5.

Diana Ross had one of the most distinctive and unusually pretty voices of all time. Great rhythm and syncopation and her own style. No one sounds like her. She doesn't need to be dismissed by the long dead corpse of "miss warwicke." That old white RACIST man is DEAD on DL.

Shoo.

Don't sing Whitney. But they all tried to sing Whitney. Because she inspired every female and male singer in the world.

I Have Nothing is gorgeous when sung right. Not by Britney.

She sings every song in that Baby Bop voice. No wonder nobody takes her seriously as an artist.

R6 disagree

Oh, Diana Ross? I’ve never ever seen anyone call her “Diane”, always Diane or Miss Ross.

That baby bop voice got her a record deal over a year before Xtina and she’s sold more than double the albums

Always Diana, not Diane

[Quote] Old white fag

R10, trust me, we all remember. We had to endure her Baby Bop voice and disposable music for like a decade.

Can Derek Chauvin get a day pass just once for r7?

I pressed play on that to laugh and cringe but it was actually fine. Obviously she wasn’t ever going to be known for having a Whitney or Mariah voice but she could sing as well as she ever needed to dot the songs she recorded.

In a weird way it’s actually refreshing hearing someone sing that song who doesn’t scream, over do the vocal runs or shout it.

^ to do the songs I meant

[quote] Whitney liked Britney after she exploded.

BLOW HER UP BOBBAY!

Is this an octave or 2 lower than how it really is lol

Here is the original sound for BOMT, before the “funk” was taken out and it was made more poppy

Nobody with any taste ever listened to Britney Spears. I'm of that generation and only the Beckys and basic gays were into her.

R20 BOMT sold 30 million copies dear. Oops sold 20 million.

She was IT back then.

Her version of Telephone before she didn’t want it and it went to GaGa

Her actual vocals for Womanizer, before they added all the shit to it.

Sure she was popular r21 but most people with any taste couldn't stand her or the teen pop shit.

"Hit Me Baby One More Time" was intended for TLC.

r19 shows how little ability she has to shift registers.

It's not the way I'm planted?

Some of her more froggy moments in the Hit Me demo remind me of Cilla Black.

It's some really old troll that calls Diana Ross diane. I see it on music threads here sometimes. Because that was funny in 1970? Diana Ross glamorized and changed the cadence of her first name, by one letter. Who the fuck cares? She's DIANA ROSS. That's how the world knows her.

Just like Mary Louise Streep is Meryl.

Brittaney Spears has an affected spelling herself. She had some ok hits, but let's not pretend the girl can sing. That's just dumb.

Watch me Twirl in my Target bikini. #FreeMe

R20: it’s possible to enjoy all types of music without needing it all to be high brow, ‘worthy’ or whatever. Britney made some fun pop songs. I agree anyone of that generation who’d consider her their #1 artist is probably a basic bitch/basic gay but nothing wrong in enjoying her music amongst all the other music out there.

[Quote] #FreeMe

That's a classic, that's a classic.

She was a talentless white trash nothing who was foisted on the public and pop music was ruined r29

Surely pop music was ruined with Paula Abdul?

R31 she wasn’t foisted. She has been in the business since she was like 5.

Here is another demo. This is her recording it with some guys.

She sounds wonderful. She could sing.

It sound like they thought she could be a Baby Braxton.

[quote] BOMT sold 30 million copies dear. Oops sold 20 million.

Millions bought the Spice Girls' debut. That doesn't make it good.

This is for you R2 and R9.

The Spice Girls didnt get Grammy nominations ever. Britney has 8 nominations with 1 win.

Everyone knows who should have won Best New Artist at the 00 Grammys. It went to the wrong person.

And after they had her perform as that other person watched.

And then they gave it to that other chick

[quote] The Spice Girls didnt get Grammy nominations ever. Britney has 8 nominations with 1 win.

LMFAO!

R39, she's completely lip syncing yet she deserved a grammy? OK.

R41 yes? Most artists don’t win a single Grammy. Or DIDNT then. Now they win easily.

R42 she sang the ballad live. The second part was lip sang

No. We're not gonna have a thread about Xtina vs Britney. Save that bitching verzus for more worthwhile talents. But of course Christina deserved all the credit. Vocally. Back then.

Why did people think frosted lipstick was cute?

R43, the Grammy's aren't exactly a benchmark for artistic merit although they pretend to be. They are about how much self-regard the music industry has for itself. The fact that Britney had a ton of nominations means nothing.

*Grammys

R46, the early 00s was burnout from the late 90s. In the same way the early 90s were burnout from the late 80s.

[quote]Millions bought the Spice Girls' debut. That doesn't make it good.

It doesn't have to be, in your opinion, good for people to enjoy it.

Britney's music was a lot of fun when I was a kid and then later in college. It didn't have depth but many people in my age group had a lot of good times to those songs.

Yet so many artists rarely get nominations. Funny how the Grammys mean nothing for certain artists on here but if we were speaking about Miss Ross or GaGa suddenly they matter.

[Quote] many people in my age group had a lot of good times to those songs.

Hitler Youth said similar.

R51, people on here care about Gaga's grammys? They shouldn't. The last time I feel the Grammys were of any significance was when Lauryn Hill swept. It's been all downhill since then and they are just a joke now.

I want that bitch run out of town... She goota go!

I just wish she'd learn that the lyric is "Oh, baby, baby...", and NOT "Oh, baben, baben...". Christ, I fucking hate that. She clearly pronounces the end of the word "baby" with an "n" (as opposed to an "eh", which would be a bit more acceptable), and it drives me nuts...to the point that I have a hard time listening to it.

Her music has never been anything but disposable, but some of it's fun. The key, is to not take it too seriously. And as for serious vocal talent? Absolutely not, Deborah Cox.

That's actually the best I've ever heard her sing. Her upper register is surprising.

After that it all sex kitten-purring and vocal fry.

It might surprise you to know that Diana Ross has NEVER won a competitive Grammy Award R51. Just a Lifetime Achievement Award. She never won a Grammy. Not with her record breaking hits with the Supremes and never once with her own stellar hit records, she's never won.

The Grammys aren't meaningless but they ain't really about music either. They're about momentum, trends, record labels and occasionally talent. Categories.

Very few Motown Artists won Grammys. Which tells us all we need to know. 45 years later the tremendously talented Adele still apologized to Beyonce when she took record of the year instead of Lemonade.

Britney Spears can't sing at all. She growls and quivers and holds a note with poor intonation and no power or support. But she WAS a pretty teenage white girl who sang about getting fucked while dressed in a catholic school uniform. Of course she was popular.

Aguilera was DIRTY but at least she could sing. And change. And move people.

Diana Ross is one of the greatest selling artists of all time. Never won a Grammy.

They get it right here and there.

The year Norah Jones swept was a joke

How many Grammys did Aretha have?

Aretha had 18 Grammys.

Aretha has many many Grammy Awards. In R&B categories. She deserved many. Why are all her wins in best R&B vocal performance categories though? Huh.

But Black women winning in POP vocal or Album of the Year categories.....Whitney and Lauryn Hill. Diana Ross was a pop singer too. That's not a problem - who cares? But when black music is the biggest selling and most seismic music - why is it relegated to soul, R&B and Rap Awards only?

Lemonade by Beyonce is the most highly praised and important album of the last decade and probably longer. Sure you've heard that Formation was just named the greatest video of all time? So why did Adele's Hello beat Lemonade in almost every category? The Grammys might just as well be the People's Choice Awards. White people's choice.

They love black music. As long as it stays in its separate lane and categories. Give the most prestigious awards to Adele and Taylor Swift? Not even Mariah can win Grammys.

Britney is Shitney, not Whitney. This demo says it all.

Mariah Carey has five Grammys. That's more than a lot of people.

How many Grammys does Dionne have?

Mariah is worse than Shitney Spears.

Beyonce hasn't been a pop artist since Love on Top.

[quote]So why did Adele's Hello beat Lemonade in almost every category?

Because Adele can even fart better than Beyoncé can sing.

Lemonade was a much better album than 25, in every way too.

And I think Bey is overrated.

Album of The Year has no category, R66. Adele was embarrassed to win.

Dionne has five Grammys.

Beyoncé has 28 Grammys

That is insane r71

Bey is not suffering. Britney is suffering. She wasn't invited to Obama's birthday. Because she forgets to wear clothes and smokes cigarettes indoors. Drives with a baby on her lap. And she doesn't have a baby. Can't sing. She refuses to 'perform' for all the wrong reasons.

Brit won a best Dance recording Grammy. In good company with Cher, Gaga, Rihanna, Madonna and Timberlake.

But has Robin ever won a best dance recording Grammy? No. And she's better than any of them by millions of miles.

Britney recorded some discarded Toni Braxton song for her demo. I wonder if anyone has a copy of that and leaked it online.

[quote]Lemonade was a much better album than 25, in every way too.

Which is why Beyonce should have won Album of the Year for Lemonade. Adele should (and did win) Record of the Year for Hello.

Even Adele, more than once, even off stage has said that. Critics said it as well. Beyonce's entire album told a story. It was something completely different than she had done. She genuinely tried which was a pretty big turning point for her.

25 had some great songs on it but the entire album as a whole was not better than Lemonade which is why Record and Album of the year have two different definitions and are two different categories. You can have a solid album overall or you could have an album with some hits and misses or at the least some standout tracks and other ones that weren't as memorable.

[quote]So why did Adele's Hello beat Lemonade in almost every category?

25 was a solid album but Adele is Adele. She didn't win for "25" as much as she won because she's Adele. However, that's the problem with many of these award shows. It's not necessarily about artistry, taking risks or public enjoyment as it is the industry rewarding itself. I think people forget who votes on the winners of these shows.

Britney won a Grammy for best Dance Recording for Toxic from In the Zone. That track or that album, in comparison to everyone nominated for Record or Album of that year was a blip.

^ somebody skipped reading this thread. ^

[quote] So why did Adele's Hello beat Lemonade in almost every category?

That was not a rhetorical question. You're cherry picking and not finishing quotes R75.

See R69. And many other posts. We know what Adele thought. She's not been quiet about it, but look - there's the actual award being given! And she says she can't accept it because it belongs to Beyonce.

We all know what happened. And most here understand the difference between song of the year and album of the year. Jeezus.

Donna Summer won five Grammys in five different categories.

How many did Sheena Easton win?

Let's just celebrate gorgeous Whitney and one of her most beautiful performances of the damn song. I love how she overshoots with her vowel sound and brings it right back into a vocal master class. She's chewing gum too. Bad dress, amazing talent. Everytime Whitney performed, it was like watching a scene from a film. Even when she was fucked the fuck up. She was mesmerizing. What a goddamn voice and exquisite ability she had to take us there.

She was only strong in mid and full close up. When the camera pulled out to reveal stiff dancing or just walking back and forth across the stage...

R80 huh?

Whitney. Her strength was her voice and smile. She couldn't move, never mind dance impressively.

R79 Thanks for reminding me how extraordinary Whitney was. The emotional power of that voice... Other pop stars like Britney and Beyonce can't compare.

R82: and? If R79 had posted to say ‘watch this clip showing how amazing Whitney’s dancing is’ fair enough but Whitney had no need to dance or have any movement. Her voice, at her peak (85-95ish) was all that was needed.

Whitney was a singer. Probably the greatest female singer of the last 50 years, and one of the greatest voices of all time. She wasn't a circus act. She didn't dance with snakes or hang from a trapeze. She was a mesmerizing physical and vocal presence. What kind of moron gets that mixed up with dancing ability? You don't have to be beautiful to be powerful. Whitney just happened to be both. Her voice was in harmony with her expression and came from her spirit. Houston was a marvel of a technical gifts and vocal emotion. She was not a manufactured commodity. She was a stunning musical talent with everything to communicate. A DIVA whose heart was on full display when she sang. What more did she need? A great talent knows when it's great. The joy is to share. Her resonance and vocal power here is astounding. Whitney was the greatest.

Datalounge, obsessed with awards and statuettes.

It's pretty trashy r86 but that's DL.

[quote] her thin vocals

Jelly…

[Quote] Whitney had no need to dance or have any movement

Disagree. Live performance is not simply an audio experience. It's not even about dancing. Stage pictures are important. Sheena Easton is another one who would just walk back and forth across the stage. No stagecraft.

Take Diana Ross, for example. This is the first time she performed "Mirror Mirror" live and with a strange (house) band. She messes up but she serves a moment of stagecraft and 4:40 that makes the whole performance worthwhile. Diva all the way. Whitney never had that.

*at 4:40

And the she goes and kissed Johnny Carson to boot. She's playful, in the moment. The stage is where she's meant to be. Not so for Whitney, Mariah, Sheena, Dua Lipa... the list goes on.

In contrast, Whitney comes on here and does a little chicken thing with her arms, the standard "clap y'all" hands... Oh, and the she walks a bit and points at someone in the audience (another hack move)... There's absolutely nothing to recommend this performance visually, no build.

I love Whitney but my partner has a fit if I put on the soundtrack to The Bodyguard. I've never liked other female vocalists, except maybe Barbra when I was a mere child.

[quote]The quality is terrible because this was her audition.

Um, yeah. I'm sure that's why it's terrible. No other reason.

Christ. R79’s link is why YouTube’s turned to shit.

TWO fucking videos before I got to the performance. One was a 6 minute video about day trading and the second was a 23 minute video about spas or something.

Diana Ross was a supermodel and superstar. Whitney was a different woman from a later time, who had greater gifts. She was more reserved as a performer. Less sure. As a vocalist - she blew her own hair back and about knocked her musicians and audience into exaltation. She was packaged to be undeniable - because her talent was so great and she was so great looking. This would prove to be a lot of pressure.

You'll never make enemies out of Diana Ross and Whitney Houston fans. They are the two women of colour who broke down all the boundaries and conceptions of what a black female entertainer should be. Two decades apart. Glamourous, pop music. Superduper stardom. Diana with no gospel root to her voice was all black girl joy and Whitney with so much church intonations and exclamations to her voice was sold as a black barbie pop princess. Both topping the charts, confusing white men's loins and delivering popular, sometimes great music without ever losing their soul. Dance, ballads, beauty and tenderness. High wattage STAR POWER. Diana with that silvery sweet syncopation and surprising range - Whitney with an operatic head voice and that third lung powerful chest voice that was as much Leontyne Price as pop star. Take the gospel out of her songs, but they couldn't take the soul out of her voice. They are the alpha and omega of female black singers who changed history. Diana was so much about fashion and chasing hits, Whitney wore a gown like no other - but seemed always to be searching to show herself within her enormous stardom. Diana Ross was still on top and having hit records twenty years after the Supremes - when Whitney came on the scene. Houston, with a record of number one hits, sales, awards and accomplishments still not broken to this day. They are both legends. The very definition of young, gifted and black.

Oprah said when she was a young girl first seeing Diana Ross on the Ed Sullivan Show - she yelled - "Look, there's pretty black women on TV singing, without a choir. "

Oh, please. Whitney was coking it up before she even got her record deal. The pressure came from inside the Houston house.

r96 just use an adblocker

What was Lena Horne? Chopped liver? I don't think Sarah Vaughan needed choir either.

Young coltish Whitney. Singing that G5 with vibrato, with a closed mouth and smiling! Amazing. Her voice is so beautiful here. She would become much greater than this - as great singers do.

Whitney should've kept her insane family at arm's length and lived completely independently of them, like Madonna was smart enough to do with hers. She might be alive today.

I'm confused as to why Britney thought she had any business singing Whitney Houston. She did record a lot of R&B songs that got shelved or released as bonus tracks. Her debut album had some songs that were out of her range and ironically more suited to Christina. They decided to stick with the babydoll voice of BOMT, Drive Me Crazy and Sometimes because those were her biggest hits.

This one song is a Mariah Carey style ballad where she sings closer to her natural tone. Very limited vocalist but a lot better than that Whitney cover.

The Toni Braxton reject song.

She was definitely marketed as a stealth white counterpart to teenybopper R&B acts like Brandy, Monica and Mya just like Backstreet Boys and NSYNC were white counterparts to Boyz II Men and other R&B boy bands. The music biz has been doing this forever.

Another Toni style song. She is really struggling on this song.

R93: I don’t mean this in a bitchy or cuntish way but if get no joy or thrill or appreciation of Whitney live watching that clip of her singing I Wanna Dance With Somebody from 1990 then I really feel sorry for you. Each to their own I know but that clip never fails to put me in a good mood and make me want to dance and sing along with her. She moved as much as she needed to. No gimmicks, no Janet/Madonna/Paula Abdul choreography because she didn’t need it. Her voice and songs were enough.

That aside, I do get that for an uptempo song you want some movement from the performer but do you really think it’s needed for a ballad? Case in point: apart from a few arm movements she stands and sings Greatest Love Of All from that same concert as the IWDWS clip you posted and it’s one of the best live performances ever I think. The build up here to her vocals near the end is just a wonder to watch/list to. Yeah I’m biased but god she was the best.

[Quote] I don’t mean this in a bitchy or cuntish way but if get no joy or thrill or appreciation of Whitney live watching that clip of her singing I Wanna Dance With Somebody from 1990 then I really feel sorry for you.

You needn't. As I said, Whitney is best appreciated for her singles and her smile. That's all.

R106 that’s a demo. You hear her breathing. That’s not a final record.

And she wasn’t struggling.

At 1:42, Xtina does her impression of Spears.

Charice, at a young age, on Oprah.

I do R100 and they never play. I used a different browser so I could get to it at all.

Her and Max Martin in the studio, recording her debut album in 1998.

She was the cutest!

Wait, which is which?

Max Martin ruined music

If it hits the spot, it hits the spot.

She didn’t have the voice to pull off white girl cover versions of Whitney Houston songs, even the ones that weren’t covers to begin with, and the record company knew it.

Making her and Justin Mouseketeers was a mistake, and one that will hang like a dark cloud over the House of Mouse forever.

R115 is right. The Taliban banned music for less than that.

[Quote] Making her and Justin Mouseketeers was a mistake, and one that will hang like a dark cloud over the House of Mouse forever.

Mary!

In what world is it wrong that Disney cast them on MMC? First off, they earned their spots there. The audition process to get cast was a lot.

Also, they’re two of the biggest stars to come out of the 90s MMC batch. If anything Disney got it right with them.

[quote]Britney Spears singing “I Have Nothing” by Whitney back in 1997

One of my pet peeves--attributing a song to the artist who performed it. The song "I Have Nothing" is not "by" Whitney. It was written by David Foster and Linda Thompson.

R120 it’s Whitney’s song.

I want to see the bright lights tonight.

[quote] One of my pet peeves--attributing a song to the artist who performed it.

Then you have a LOT of entertainers that you are mad at.

Britney and Justin being Mouseketeers wasn't a mistake. They weren't any more or less talented than anyone else, they were only on for a season or two and they probably would have developed more talent if the show continued on. It was chickenhawk Lou Perlman who wanted to fuck JC and Justin and he created NSYNC to piggyback the success of his cash cow Backstreet Boys. Lou is also the one who made a girl group with former female Mouseketeers which included Britney. Britney was already a party girl who was fucking around, she got kicked out of the group but she had a certain charm to her. That the execs at Jive saw her as the perfect pop star and they and got a bunch of Swedish dudes like Max Martin to produce her album, had her do a mall tour, dropped the Baby One More Time video and she ended up becoming a huge investment that paid off.

Christina was the one who was signed as a solo artist first and she got her first single as the song "Reflection" in Mulan in 1998. Britney's success forced Christina's team to delay her album release and overhaul the sound to be more teen dance-pop sounding.

No. The album was mostly produced by an American.

...Baby One More Time was mostly produced in Sweden by Cheiron Studios. Max Martin is Swedish and English isn't his first language which is very obvious in the lyrics he wrote for Britney, Backstreet and NSYNC. TLC even rejected ...Baby One More Time because they thought it was encouraging domestic abuse which showed the obvious language barrier.

That doesn't make much sense. When Missy Elliott was saying "Hit me," she didn't mean "Throw a punch."

Apart from "....Baby One More Time", the other songs like "Sometimes", "Drive Me Crazy", "Oops...I Did It Again" and "I Will Be There" are also in awkwardly phrased English. Backstreet Boy's "I Want It That Way", "Backstreet's Back", and "Larger Than Life" and also NSYNC's "It's Gonna Be Me", "Tearin' Up My Heart" and "Bye Bye Bye" are also very awkwardly phrased songs.

r127 "Hit me up" sounds very different than "hit me baby one more time". Max's songwriting tends to evoke images of stalking and domestic abuse and the overuse of terms like baby, crazy and scared don't help.

[quote]Then you have a LOT of entertainers that you are mad at.

The entertainers are not the problem. It's the people who post things on the internet. Responsible journalists would say something like "as originally recorded by ...".

It's definitely bullshit when entertainers win awards for songs or albums they didn't write or contribute creatively too. The music industry is so corrupt and shady and there are instances of entertainers and their teams using bullying tactics or bribery to get songwriting credits because it's additional revenue.

R128, apparently in Sweden "hit me" means "call me"....which makes the song sound even stupider to me.

"Hit me" just means "Give it to me" and it did then as well.

R132, not in Sweden apparently.

r129 the songs are identified by the artist. Sorry, that's just the way the world is.

You're nutty R130. Do you think when great singers don't write the songs they shouldn't win awards for vocal performances or turning out memorable recordings? There was a time when songwriters were just that and singers interpreted music. Is Leontyne Price unworthy of an award because she didn't write the opera?

You sound especially stupid. Whitney Houston's version of I Will Always Love You is the biggest selling single recording by a woman of all time. Dolly Parton wrote it and made most of the money for it. Well over 30 million dollars OFF of Whitney's recording. I think Ms. Houston can accept her many awards for taking Dolly's simple song into her vocal stratosphere, endless weeks at number one and the history books.

Never mind the great songwriters of the American Songbook. Hundreds of singers have popularized their music. Songwriter's win awards too you know R130? For writing the song.

R132 LOL that makes the song and video even more disturbing. A tiny 16-year-old in pigtails and a Catholic schoolgirl outfit and a moany babydoll voice singing "fuck me" in Swedish lingo. We wonder why so many parents were disgusted by Britney's image and the fact she was being marketed on Disney Channel and Nickelodeon too.

r136 I wonder if a teen (underage) singer could be marketed like that today. So much has changed in a generation.

R135 By using childish insults, you unintentionally weakened your own argument. But anyway, manufactured pop music is not in the same sphere as opera or classical music which would involve a ton of technical skill and talent. Britney is not comparable to Whitney in any universe. Whitney had a god-given talent and did interpret her songs masterfully but she's an exception to the rule. The voice is an instrument itself and Whitney had control and mastery of her voice. Nowadays, pop stars barely sing and rely on autotune and other studio magic. Even back then, it would have been ludicrous to say Paula Abdul deserved music awards. Should we just give awards to everyone who is signed onto a label relies on ghost vocalists, autotune, dancing, gimmicks and visuals over being a talented singer, a talented instrumentalist or a songwriter? We need to have some standards, now.

Also I love Whitney but I prefer Dolly's original by miles.

R137, i don't think it would happen. Remember Lebowitz took that "racy" picture of Miley naked wrapped in a towel or something like 13 years ago? There was a lot of controversy about htat. And don't forget Britney's Rolling Stone pictures. That was pure jailbait.

R137 Yes and the fact they had Britney say she was a virgin to the press to avoid further slut-shaming and moral guardians coming after her too. She was both sexualized but also the face of wholesome Christian values. It's all so ridiculous now.

I remember all of the Miley controversies. She was always a party girl, sexually precocious and Disney tried so hard to control her but failed miserably. The topless back photo, the penis-shaped cake, the Can't Be Tamed video, the pot smoking and etc. The rumors about her drugs and partying were all over the web and turned out to be true. After Hannah Montana finished its original run, Disney washed their hands off it and killed that franchise. Unlike Hilary who was doing Disney related stuff and music years after Lizzie McGuire ended, Miley was able to hop right into an adult pop career, flashing her tits, wearing dildos and wearing grills.

Britney was fucking exploited from the very beginning. Though she did a pretty convincing job of acting her musical Lolita role - she is not responsible for it. She was obviously tampered with and bullied for a lot of her life. Xtina was a troubled young woman too, but she took control of her image pretty quickly after success. She got dirtier - but less slutty. Then she soared as one of the great vocalists of her time.

Britney can't in any way sing. Ever. She is not a singer. She can't sing. So she had to keep moaning and fucking with being sexy. She's not even a great dance artist. Though some here will disagree. She's a sad old girl. Like a cat who had too many litters.

Miley was messed with and messed up too, but she's a musical genius compared to Britney. And Miley CAN sing. It's too bad that Miley and Ariana and Jessie J had to dumb down their musical gifts to become chart topping stars. But they've made up for it.

How can you soar as one of the greatest vocalists when even your singles catalogue is threadbare?

R142 I 100% agree. I have a soft spot for Brit but she isn't really all that talented. She can't sing, she was decent at dancing but can't dance anymore and she isn't involved in her music or takes creative risks. She is a sweet but dim girl with a horrific mental illness and was mistreated her whole life by her greedy family, surrounded by sycophants and greedy studio execs. Christina may be difficult but she is talented and was at least street smart with enough grit to make the music she wanted. Miley, Ariana and Jessie are all very talented singers. Miley is very damaged and I also think she is mentally ill but she can sing her ass off when she wants to.

Christina was not signed first. Her song for Mulan was not from her label.

There's not much Miley can't sing when she's focused. She has beautiful low tones and the fast vibrato similar to her godmother. But she has real vocal power too and an appreciation of all genres of music. From Fleetwood Mac to Billy Joel to Bob Dylan, Lana Del Rey and Beth Hart - Miley can sing it.

Jessie J worships Whitney, we know. She's always loved Whitney. Ariana does too. I don't like anyone singing Houston's songs, but Jessie and Ariana and JHud have been singing them all their lives. I forgive them. 🌹

The only two Whitney covers I have ever liked are both by men. But Kelly Clarkson did a very pretty and impressive Run to You and Jessie J weirdly competed on that Chinese singing competition, singing all kinds of Whitney and Celine songs. She says she did it to be given the chance to sing what she's always loved and can actually do. Maybe just to be appreciated. She won of course.

You be the judge. Her vocal tone and power is not full and magical like Houston's but she CAN sing the damn song. She's underrated for sure.

Poor Britney. Does she know she has no talent? She doesn't even know how to buy a decent bathing suit or dress. Girl was cute and lucky and very unlucky. And for a short time, she seemed like Britney, bitch. Her brain was still developing - who knows what she was given or made to do. They fucked up her chemistry forever and did not get her the help that she needed. Too late now. Take back what's left of your life Ms. Spears.

Ariana sucks when she sings Whitney. She has a pretty voice with no soul or emotion to it

Modest but very pretty singing with gorgeous tone, Kelly Clarkson.

Kelly and Jessie are such naturals and have great singles. I like Ariana but her music bores me most of the time, great for background but something about it just doesn't stick out to me. Miley is great and her musical tastes are surprisingly varied, she has so much potential, I like some of her songs but I wish she could stay focused on developing a sound that is just Miley. I think she just needs better (more honest) people around her and maybe get therapy or on some medication for whatever demons she has.

Kelly only excels at pop rock. When tries to go hard in a rock or r&b direction, she pales next to those before here. She would never have made it without the TV talent shot exposure.

*those who came before her.

Miley is not in the same league as those others. Let’s stop acting like she’s a top tier vocalist.

Gay men who are middle-aged or almost there and still listen to these shit pop princesses are so fucking basic.

Ariana is the weakest of the top tier in my opinion. Her voice is small and foggy. She lacks resonance and has a very narrow vocal production. She needs voice lessons to be honest.

Kelly Clarkson has by far the most anointed vocal palette and is the best singer in the game today R130. She doesn't need any singing competition to take her there. She only gets better.

Miley Cyrus can fucking sing. She just doesn't sing pretty.

[quote] Whitney should've kept her insane family at arm's length and lived completely independently of them, like Madonna was smart enough to do with hers. She might be alive today.

Maybe it was cultural. Whitney was a Black woman and Black culture is very family-oriented and there's a "ride or die" mentality. It's understandable given the history of broken families due to slavery, Jim Crow lynchings and mass incarcerations. Whitney also got a lot of flack for not being "Black enough" too. Another thing is Whitney was also super-religious and brainwashed by patriarchal ideas and homophobic sermons. She could never have lived her life as a proud lesbian because she could never express her individuality and take the risk of alienating her family and community. It's sad really.

Super religious but hardly attended church. She spent more time with Cherrelle than Kim Burrell.

Estelle Brown of the Sweet Inspirations (Cissy Houston's former group) has lived her life as an out lesbian. She even attends one of those inclusive churches.

Omg. Not everything has to do with being black or white.

There are many white people who are family oriented. You know those Italians you love defending as “white”? They’re culture is all about family. More so than anyone else in history pretty much. Everything about Italians is family.

I know many black people who don’t speak to their families. It’s a personal choice. Not a cultural choice.

Queen Latifah and Whitney are pretty much contemporaries. Latifah found a way. Whitney was lost in the sauce.

Whitney found ways of expressing her individuality...

Like that horrible creature Jessica Simpson, she can't sing or act.

When these "personality clotheshorses" get put back into the barn then real performers will return to radio & tv.

Bless your heart. Britney wasn't a star because of how she wore clothes (how she removed OTOH...)

Sorry R162. What Brit wore was covered endlessly on E.T. & Access H. shows, the tabloids & the respected mags like "People".

Young girls wanted to dress like her, have the same hairstyles & makeup (just like Madoomma in the 80s).

When she did her famous "snake dance" her outfit was also applauded at the time.

None of the above ever mentioned her awesome vocals on her singles or albums because she had none.

Britney was a performer. He outfits were "stage."

Actually Brits albums and many of her singles were loved at the time.

Britney was a decent performer but her dancing was really overblown. A dancer I know told me that she never knew how to move her legsl, even at her peak. When you watch her old music videos, it's obvious because she's usually filmed from the waist up while dancing. Janet was a much, much better dancer than her.

R166 sure…..

[quote]Maybe it was cultural. Whitney was a Black woman and Black culture is very family-oriented and there's a "ride or die" mentality.

Madonna's Italian-American and it's pretty much the same. She still told her family to stay out of her business.

[quote]You know those Italians you love defending as “white”?

Italians are white, dear. I know many Dataloungers think "white" = WASP but it isn't so.

They aren’t white.

Yes they are r170. Whites can be ethnic, and many Northern Italians are fair and blue-eyed.

R171 because they aren’t actually ethnically Italian. Same discussion about Joel here.

Sorry r172 DNA doesn't lie. There are dark and fair Italians just like there are dark and fair English, Irish, Germans etc.

Actually most “fair” Italians who take dna tests tend to have very little Italian

No r174. That is not accurate, you're making shit up to try and defend your idiotic point. Would a German with dark hair and brown eyes not be German ethnically? It's a ridiculous assumption and not based in the science of DNA.

R175 yes. Some are. But many have little to no Italian dna.

Show us the receipts r176. you're talking out of your ass.

The Italian thing is so weird on here. Nobody thinks of dark French or dark Germans as not being anything but white but for some reason Italians really trigger some of you.

Would anybody call George Clooney or Catherine Zeta-Jones non-white?

Italian DNA smells bad.

r176 I have friends of Italian heritage who are fair and their DNA tests came back as Italian.

Italians assimilated into mainstream American society and most people see them as white. Nobody looks at John Travolta or Ralph Macchio as anything other than white boys with Italian ancestry from the Northeast. Frank Sinatra would not have had the career he had if he wasn't perceived as white. Italians are light-skinned, of European origin and follow the Christian faith which are the three major components to white identity politics. Only KKK members or WASP elitists would question Italian's whiteness and see them as people of color. Southern Italians and Sicilians being discriminated against had to do with the one-drop rule and phenomenon of white-passing. Which made white Americans so obsessed with suspecting anyone with dark curly hair, brown eyes or an olive complexion of being a secret Black person. It's completely backwards and a laughable aspect of American history.

White is also an increasingly outdated term anyway. Nobody has literal white skin just like nobody has literal black skin. All human beings are shades of brown and our appearances are influenced by genetics which were the results of mutations and natural selection. Race was an invention used to divide people of certain phenotypes and cultural traditions into social classes and justify oppression, colonization and enslavement of specific classes. And the fact every country has different definitions of race shows how dumb the concept is. We are more defined by common ancestry and similar genetics than the concept of three or four major races.

Europe is a very small continent that had centuries of migrations, wars and invasions, all Europeans are mixed. Italy also wasn't even a country until the 1800s. Previously, it was a collection of small kingdoms and many Italians today still identify by their region in which they have ancestry dating centuries. There is not one Italian look. Italian is a nationality, not a race. Americans are so stupid and hung up about the idea of pure races because of colonialism, slavery and segregation laws which prevented people of different backgrounds from uniting and forming a cultural mosaic.

r181 people throughout the Italian peninsula share common DNA. JFC does anybody read anything about DNA around here?

Can we get back in topic?

Italians have a lot of “Middle Eastern” DNA, and some parts have a good amount of African DNA.

r184 DNA testing has shown the admixture is not really prevalent.

"Whitney was a Black woman and Black culture is very family-oriented "

Has anyone informed all of the fathers of illegitimate children:

Broken down by race, however, the statistics show stark differences. The percentage of White children under 18 who live with both parents almost doubles that of Black children, according to the data. While 74.3 percent of all White children below the age of 18 live with both parents, only 38.7 percent of African-American minors can say the same.

Instead, more than one-third of all Black children in the United States under the age of 18 live with unmarried mothers—compared to 6.5 percent of White children.

R186 I am not denying the missing father stats. Though to be honest, poor broke white men bail on their girlfriends or wives all the time. Visit the local trailer parks with trailers filled with single moms in their mid-20s with tons of crying kids. It's more of a poverty thing than anything else. Poverty unfortunately is something still prevalent in US minority communities (excluding Asian or continental African communities).

As for Whitney, her father the least negative impact. It was her mothers, aunts and general female company. Contrary to the narrative, female family members are just as (if not more) toxic to the self-esteem and mental health of young women especially ones with pleasant and kind personalities like Whitney. Madonna was likely born a cold bitch and was able to disengage from her family members because of lacking empathy to begin with.

Are you kidding? The Houston kids raised themselves. Cissy was the breadwinner, away at recording sessions. John Houston would go off and "visit" women. How do you think Whitney ended up with a wire hanger inserted into her mouth? John Houston was a philander, just like Bobby Brown.

She did a great job!

holy shit listening to the raw demos in this thread just proves what a fucking horrendous "singer" she is. Sure, sometimes she can stay in key but she often comes in and out. Her tone is ugly as hell when she finishes a lot of words. Without autotune she'd never have had a career, that's for damn sure.

it's really infuriating she went on to become a superstar when there are hundreds of thousands of girls out there who can sing circles around her, even ones who don't have a huge voice.

and her dancing was not nearly as good as fellow horrid singer, Paula Abdul.

Britney's career was actually rightfully on a downward spiral until that mental breakdown with the umbrella and shaved head. Then people started feeling bad for her and bought her next few albums out of sympathy. I was a teenager when she first became famous and while many thought "Hit Me Baby One More Time" was cute, no one thought she was talented. I remember at my school she was the butt of many jokes. She got slammed for "Oops I Did It Again" as it showed she really couldn't sing worth shit. She would have likely faded into irrelevancy if not for the mental breakdown as it bizarrely boosted her popularity.

Unfortunately I bet her next single/album will do well because of all the publicity she's gotten from the conservatorship stories.

R190 oh. Please.