Who is the Bigger Bitter Pain in the Ass - Diana Ross or Barbra Streisand?

Dionne Warwick

Diana. Barbra had real talent. Diana was a diva. Barbra was only a pain in the ass because she dared to insist on being treated with respect. Does anyone realize how difficult it was for her to to be able to direct movies? And to be presented in a certain way. They only other Hollywood star who did that was Ida Lupino and god only knows how many dicks she had to suck.

Looks like someone has drunk the Kool Aid ^

Diana.

Gurl, both!

R4, I totally forgot about that LP.

R2 it was a lot easier for a white woman, even a Jewish white woman to get respect in the industry compared to a black woman. Yes, Barbara is talented, in a very gifted theater kid turned pop star type of way. Diana is also talented and captivated audiences. Both have star power, but Both were DIVAS but only one was thrown movie scripts to play opposite Hollywood leading men, the white woman. So let’s not Durga coat these women, both were vain, spiteful, and willing to do whatever it takes to succeed.

It's funny. Both of them gave fantastic performances in their debut movies. Barbra kept going, Diana, not so well. Why?

The one who didn't spray paint a microphone.

In order to be make it as a singer (and what is even more difficult, achieve any sort of longevity), it used to be indispensable to have a steely determination to succeed, charisma and lots of talent. Both La Streisand and La Ross more than fulfilled these requisites, and they also had a certain glamour, elegance and mystique that made them extremely alluring to audiences.

In terms of vocal talent, both are very evenly matched - Diana has the better range, but Barbra has the more powerful voice and a richer and more distinctive tone. As actresses, I find them both extremely mannered and fussy, not to mention preoccupied with projecting the right image; you can tell that they are performing as divas rather than actresses, and they always made sure that every scene that they're in was all about themselves. They have this "this is MY moment of glory" air that makes every character they portray a bit samey, although I am sure that if they had been properly directed they would have proven to be great actresses.

Regarding their personalities, Diana was a total cunt to everyone around her except the people she had to fuck or flatter, in order to get the opportunities she needed in order to become a megastar. As R7 has mentioned, she had it much harder than other (mainly white) entertainers and had to work harder, but there wasn't any need to be such a nasty bitch to anyone she perceived as being beneath her, or those who aspired to be her equals at anything - especially because she became THE star of The Supremes very early on, and kept climbing higher and higher from then on. There wasn't any need to be so obnoxious.

As for Barbra, she is by most accounts the typical ugly girl who manages to succeed, and decides to become a bit of a tyrant. Still, she isn't known to be a raging bitch but rather, a desperately insecure woman who will do ANYTHING to be the centre of attention. That has ruined all her directorial efforts because she needs everything to be about herself all of the time, and that ruined potentially interesting moments like Yentl or The Prince of Tides. However, it is undeniable that she is utterly out of touch with reality and lives in a parallel reality where everyone always tells her 'YES', and I am sure that things are not nice when someone dares to answer anything else to her demands.

So yes, both of them are legends in their own right, but in terms of personalities, Barbra is nicer even if more outwardly insecure, delusional and grandstanding. La Ross is an all around bitch, but she knows how to play nice and down-to-earth for interviews and public appearances... Unless the public appearance happens to be Florence Ballard's funeral, of course.

BarbAra.

It's Diane.

Your mom, OP.

R4 Bitch I knew you'd say Diana!!! You wrong for that

I worked backstage at the 1981 Grammy Awards and was stage left when the Best Song was named. Babs and Barry Gibb were standing right in front of the monitor and nobody else could come close. She was giving fish eye to everyone. Diana was sitting in a chair talking to Donna Summer and Leontyne Price. My work friend said 'Miss Ross is my idol". I told her to go ask for her autograph, which we were instructed not to do. She did anyway and Miss Ross was so sweet. She talked a few moments with my friend, gave her the autograph and a hug. Babs never took her eyes off the TV. Cold bitch.

I’ve seen many stories about celebrity children. There are some terrible accounts about celebrity kids gone wild.

On the other hand, I’ve watched Diana Ross’ kids (all 5 of them) who live good lives. And I see how they adore her. Something has to be said that a woman with that kind of celebrity creating good standards for her 5 kids—and remaining so close to them.

I think when you look at Hollywood politics, money and scripts, the opportunity for women of color and the type of roles they play, it is still limiting.

I love you R1. I definitely giggled at that.

Diana is a huge, huge star. I think...I think sometimes her personality has screwed up her "goddess" levels. If that makes any sense. I've always spoken nicely about her work, but sometimes...she's...she's difficult sometimes. But that doesn't mean she isn't absolutely brilliant. We all have out moments.

Here's the link I missed at R17. This bit starts at 8:30.

The answer is that they're still talking about bitch Diana. Nobody talks about bitch Barbra anymore because she's such a relic nobody alive remembers it. Yeah, I now DR and BS are only two years apart - go figure, HA!

Diane was sheltered from a lot of the usually shit that women of color encounter because she had a long term affair with Barry Gordy, the founder of Motown, and he ruled, baby. She put up with nothing. Especially after He arranged for her to marry Bob Silberstein... who raised her kid. I think he was Gay. Barry and Diane were together for a very long time.

[quote]Barbra was only a pain in the ass because she dared to insist on being treated with respect.

No. Barbra is a pain in the ass because she insists her way is the only (and right) way. And she will bulldoze over anyone in her path to get it. And to add insult to injury, her taste is often middlebrow.

[quote]I worked backstage at the 1981 Grammy Awards and was stage left when the Best Song was named. Babs and Barry Gibb were standing right in front of the monitor and nobody else could come close. She was giving fish eye to everyone.

I believe it. Here is she during the nominees for Best Female Pop Vocal. Everyone else looks pleasant (if a little nervous). Barbra gives a glare like someone just cut one in front of her face.

[quote]because she had a long term affair with Barry Gordy, the founder of Motown

How could you not know his name is BERRY Gordy and not BARRY Gordy? If the answer is no, delete your responses.

[quote]Diana is a huge, huge star. I think...I think sometimes her personality has screwed up her "goddess" levels.

Berry did a real number on her control wise. Thus, when she left Motown she took everything on herself because she wanted no one telling her what to do ever again. It wasn't the best choice (even Streisand knew you couldn't do it all). Thus, her Hollywood career fall by the wayside, and she spent the 80's trying to keep up with current trends then simply stick to what she did best. By the time she started getting back on track in the 90's with solid albums and TV movie roles, the momentum was gone. A shame, because Diana had a warmth to her on screen that Streisand lacks.

Fortunately, she had touring throughout it all to fall back on. Ross is without a doubt one of the best live performers in the business. And that live performing led to her being rediscovered in the mid 2000's and finally getting the props and respect she deserved.

Olivia Newton-John looks so beautiful in that Grammys clip.

Who ended up passed out drunk in her Range Rover? In a Blockbuster Video parking lot no less.

Barbra never pushed anyone on stage.

I agree that Diana has a warmth to her that Barbra doesn't. You can sense Barbra's insecurities a mile away, while with Diana, she can drop the mask and have some fun. Not to say she can't be a bitch but raising five kids who all seem well-adjusted and love her are good signs. Also, even in her RCA years, when she tried to control and produce everything as r23 stated, at least she tried different genres and challenged herself. One of the biggest problems with Barbra and one of the reasons you find so many of her albums in second-hand stores is that she didn't really grow as an artist. She recorded a lot of sludgy romantic songs that didn't age well.

I think Diana has a very strong discography overall. Her '70s albums are great and she made some good ones in the '90s.

And Diana is a great live performer. I find Barbra very unengaging on-stage. I had a chance to see her second row but I just didn't want to pay the money because I just didn't think it would be worth it.

But did Barbra ever have 3 minutes and 47 seconds of cinematic excellence that is forever ingrained in minds of gay men of a certain age ,,

[quote] Olivia Newton-John looks so beautiful in that Grammys clip.

r24 Yes she is a darling! I actually got to meet her as I was her escort to/from the audience to the backstage area. She presented best song to Christopher Cross who won just about everything that year for his album "Sailing". I asked Olivia if she would like to sing at Radio City and her eyes lit up. I believe she did a few years later. After she presented the award to Christopher, she came offstage with the envelope. She asked me, "What do I do with this?" Without hesitating, I took it and told her I would make sure he got it. I still have it to this day.

[quote]Barbra never pushed anyone on stage.

That's because everyone else is forced to be a mile back from her.

I wash alwaysh nice to everyone!

I did see Dianna in concert two or three years ago and it was an amazing show. She is great live!

Ryan O'Neal dated both and basically declared Diana is a narcissistic looney. Imagine having an ego so big you even make Barbra seems like a normal person.

Barbara.

Barbara Walters, R34?

R33, Ryan was always on his best behavior with Barbra because of her status in 1971 when they made What's up Doc. Diana never achieved that status in the film industry, so "fuck that." By 1979, Ryan wasn't as kind about Streisand. She'd become more of a meglomaniac and was impossible to work with (see The Main Event). For all his many faults, Ryan knew when to suck up, and who to fuck for a job.

Barbra had mental health issues all her life. For years she was most comfortable when she was in character, performing. Her songs are done in character. I often go back and listen to her earlier work. It's flawless and she is flawless. I wouldn't call her cold. But she seems to shut down emotionally when she is uncomfortable or anxious. And her anxieties were crippling. It has taken years of therapy to outgrow those insecurities. As she grows older, she seems more at peace with herself and much happier.

Fighting to direct movies, to have some control over the process, was important to her. And her body of work and a sense of agency gave her more confidence. A particular scene in Funny Girl sort of says it all: She argues with Florenz Ziegfeld about the pregnant bride skit, and he wanted her to play it straight, and do it his way, he threatens her, bullies her and tells he she us through. She takes the risk and does it her way...and it works. That could be a metaphor for her entire career.

Berry Gordy was always part of Diana's life, even after she left Motown. She trusted his advice, and they shared a child. Was he controlling, yes. But she always knew he protected her, fought for her, and helped "create" her. Diana was barely out of high school and lived in Detroit's public housing projects. Even as a young teenage she always had those "diva" tendencies and was convinced she was special. And she was. She had no anxieties. None. She LOVED to perform. And she expected everyone around her to give her her due.

The reason her career didn't last, is partly because of racism, and because the market place moved on. She was a successful crossover, but her voice wasn't as strong as people like , say, Gladys Knight. As time passed, Diana was out there on a limb getting more support from her white audiences that her Black ones, and her base shrunk. Berry very deliberately groomed her for crossover and she was never regarded as a "soul singer" but more of a pop artist. That was his dream, his goal. Lots of competition in that genre.

As Diana grew older you could see that she didn't have the kind of collaborative closeness with the Motown people who nurtured her, as other artists, both former Motown and non Motown had. Smokey grew up with both Diana and Aretha (non Motown.) He adored Aretha. Stevie Wonder adored Aretha, wrote songs for her as gifts. Levi Stubbs and the 4 Tops were Aretha's close, dear friends. Diana was always "the boss's girlfriend" and she used it as a club to get her way. She didn't have a lot of friends from those days. Martha Reeves, from Martha & the Vandellas, always said Diana was "stuck up, thought she was too good for us." And yeah Diana operated in a bigger world, and she was a good actress, should have done more acting, she was a good mother, but as an artist she burned a lot of bridges.

[quote]Barbra had mental health issues all her life

That's the excuse now? Streisand has/had the same anxieties most everyone in show business has, only hers have a big magnifying glass on them. She never had clinical depression, borderline personality or anything which would remotely qualify a diagnosis of "mental health issues." Bitch is not a mental health issue. Dealing with a difficult parent or family is not a mental health issue. Getting peeved because you don't get everything you want is not a mental health issue.

Streisand has problems that everyone has, it's just that she's been removed from real life for so long she doesn't know that. And her fans make excuses.

Here's where it gets really weird! Diana has a sister named Barbara, and Barbra's mum was named Diana! Gimme gimme gimme! Yum! Yum! Yum! Yum!

"Ross is without a doubt one of the best live performers in the business. And that live performing led to her being rediscovered in the mid 2000's and finally getting the props and respect she deserved."

Not sure that actually applies. I saw her most recent tour. She has a magnetic persona and smiles through everything. But the band was old and tired. Multiple backup singers (5?) carrying her through songs. And there was no work done to use her voice as the foreground and have the backup singers assist on notes she couldn't reach. No re-working of the songs that were no longer accessible to her. Just her background singers singing as a chorus and her performing live karaoke. On some songs, she was ok. on others, like Mahogany, it was just sad.

Barbra is a perfectionist. If you have ever worked for a perfectionist who has the money and power to shape everything to their liking, you know what its like. It can be exhausting. And incredibly TEDIOUS. That is not a reflection on Barbra, just the patience levels of everyone who works on her projects because she has to try everything with tiny variations until it is "perfect" and balanced in her brain. Many people can't handle working with someone like that. It's grueling. Lots of work has to be redone. The overtime can be crushing because just when you think the day is over, she's got the energy to go another 6 hours to get it "right" in a way that only she understands is right. And every single detail she decides to get involved with ends up going through the same meat grinder. Oh, you worked all night on the album cover? Let's see the font on the title bigger. Let's try a different font. Let's make that letter more round. It doesn't make her mean or a bad person. But after eight hours of that some people lose their patience. Others can handle it. And those are the ones who get invited back.

R39? Are we forgetting that she's 78 years old now and she worked the hell out of that voice for 60 years?

r40 Sloppy is sloppy. How she sounds isn't as important as strategically using all the tools in her arsenal to create a stage performance that delivers in some way. Might be changing the notes or octave, having individual backup singers hit certain notes, using echoing effects during parts of the song (Where its her voice but an effect is added on the mic to create layers of sound like you'd hear on an album). And then there's backing tracks (a more complicated version of lip synching that can be used to enhance a performer's voice or cover areas of extreme weakness).

The Diana concert was just her going out there and doing whatever she felt like with her voice. That's what was sad. The lack of planning.

Pain in the ass?

I knew people around Diane who had colostomies in order to get over the pains that she chewed into their asses.

Diane is what happens when a pipsqueak learns to "snatch" the glory with the money men.