Gosford Park

The Ur-Downton Abbey.

I love it. It has everything: it’s funny, it’s sad, it’s a commentary on class and social hierarchies, it’s lovely to look at.

It’s kind of a comfort-watch for me. I’ve seen it many times and it never gets old.

It's sort of an oddball in Robert Altman's filmography (though I suppose you could argue that for all of his movies). I had heard of it before, but didn't realize it was directed by him and until years later. I watched it several months ago for the first time, and loved it. I enjoy all of his movies, really. He is one of the best filmmakers the U.S. has ever had, as far as I'm concerned. His movies are always smart, a bit idiosyncratic, and often dialogue-heavy. He was known for letting scenes play out and actors perform off-the-cuff, often letting the camera run as the improvised. You can see that especially in something like Gosford Park. His filmmaking style was very experimental in that sense.

I'd also recommend Nashville, Images, and 3 Women, if you haven't seen those—all fantastic.

R3 thanks for recommendations. I read the actors improvised a lot of the dialogue

I love this movie, I think it's time for another re-watch.

Ryan Phillippe is one of the biggest weaknesses in the film.

Kelly Macdonald is so superb as the central character who solves the mystery.

One of the last great movies.

Loved it

One of my top favourites. A wonderful film. I can't believe Julian Fellowes had it in him, given how he let Downton turn into Little House on the Prairie, but perhaps much of Gosford is down to ad lib. It's a terrific film.

I loved it when I saw it years ago. Will have to revisit it

Ryan Phillippe's part was originally supposed to be played by Jude Law, who had to drop out for some reason. Too bad--Law is a much better actor than Phillippe.

Maggie Smith's character saying something like "and he has such a vast repertoire" is one of my favorite lines ever in a movie.

Ryan Phillippe’s lack of acting skills worked with his character. Jude Law may have been too talented for this role.

Green...such a difficult color.

I love how annoyed Maggie is by the guy who won’t stop playing the piano.

One of my favorites. A true ensemble cast. My favorite scene is Ivor Novello singing for his supper.

This is one of my top ten favorite movies of all time. Seriously love it and I see /hear something new every time I watch it. I completely agree with R13. Phillippe was perfect for the role of amateur/opportunist.

Imagine that lucky wife, getting Ryan's hard cock after suffering with lecherous Michael Gambon

Difficult color, green.

This is probably my favorite movie of all time.

[quote] Maggie Smith's character saying something like "and he has such a vast repertoire" is one of my favorite lines ever in a movie.

The line is “Lovely long repertoire.”

And I agree it is one of the best lines in movie history.

Maggie has a few great lines in this movie.

God, I hate shooting. Why does one have to do such things?

[quote] the guy who won’t stop playing the piano

One of the most popular and versatile performers in early 20th century England

The problems with this movie—

1. too many quality English performers wasting their time 2. the second half of this loose, sloppily-written movie dragged off the point 3. it contained too many Americans who railroaded the story into its own interests.

I agree with the Phillippe supporters. When I first saw the movie, I spent half of it wondering who Ryan fucked to land the role. His accent was terrible, his performance was amateurish compared with the brilliant British cast. And then, all of a sudden, the casting turned out to be inspired. Altman made the audience sympatico with all the houseguests, trying to make ourselves ignore the elephant in the room. I think it's one of the best-cast roles ever, and I give Phillippe kudos for having the humility to play it.

Bob Balaban stinks up every movie he appears in.

Is he Robert Altman's nephew or something?

R24 - Additionally, when all the men are in tuxedos and the women are all in standard 1920s fashions it becomes difficult to differentiate among the characters.

My favorite scene:

The only good piece of writing Julian Fellowes has produced. I imagine Bob Balaban had him on a short leash.

This movie was my introduction to both Maggie Smith and Helen Mirren. Maggie obviously steals every scene and gives great comic relief, but even though the story isn't really her character's story anymore than any other's, Mirren made the biggest impression on me. I came away from Gosford Park looking for more of her work and I have always sought out her new movies since.

Ah, I love this movie; I agree with R30's comment about Smith & Mirren, though I also loved the tragic Alan Bates character. Watching this makes me sorry that DA turned into a silly soap opera instead the kind of story about class in pre-WWII England

My problem with this movie is that everyone, with the exception of Kelly Macdonald, is unlikable.

[quote] story about class in pre-WWII England

Do you like other stories about class in England?

Gosford is one of my favorite movies but I found Downton Abbey unwatchably dull from the beginning. I watched the first season because of the zeitgeist and then I decided to stop punishing myself. Every episode felt like it dragged on for four hours to me.

[quote] Downton Abbey

The problem with that show is that it had 16 characters each demanding equal screen time in every episode.

[quote]Gosford is one of my favorite movies but I found Downton Abbey unwatchably dull from the beginning. I watched the first season because of the zeitgeist and then I decided to stop punishing myself. Every episode felt like it dragged on for four hours to me.

I'm with Benedict Cumberbatch on Downton Abbey, season 1 was fine and dandy, season 2 convinced me not to bother:

[quote]“We’re living in a culture now that’s revering, or having a nostalgia trip with, the beginning of the 1900s. Although Downton traded a lot on the sentiment in the last series…but we won’t talk about that series because it was, in my opinion, fucking atrocious.”

Love the "You are such a bad influence" line when Gabon's character offers his sister-in-law some liquor in his study.

Gosford Park is one of those movies where you always notice something new when watching it again. The commentary tracks of both Altman and Fellows are the best.

What are you wearing?

Sigh, I love watching this movie if for no other reason that that fabulous fox stole with a head that Lady Sylvia wears at the end of the movie while she wearily mulls what to do with that house, now that her asshole husband is (finally) dead. How did Lady Sylvia have such drippy daughter?

Keep in mind that Isobel is basically dominated by her mother (Sylvia making negative comments about her shooting oufit, which it turns out Sylvia had bought) and Isobel has a past with Freddie. She goes to Elsie for advice about pregnancy and abortion. Isobel is more complicated than she is allowed to show by the limitations of her social status.

What [italic]are[/italic] you wearing?

Why? Don't you like it? You bought it.

Did I? How extraordinary of me.

Did you have a horrid journey?

Yes, fairly horrid.

R32, I liked Elsie.

I just don’t understand why she was so fond of the old rapist. He was awful.

They had everything....at least on the surface but they were insecure, and complaining about everything.

Well, the wife didn't love her husband. As the show reveals, the marriage was a marriage of convenience. Her family needed the money (for example, Dame Maggie's character gets an allowance coming from his money he makes with his factories), and he wanted a title. And she "won" him in a card game played amongst the sisters.

Phillipe is supposed to be a bad actor but it isn't a great performance. Stephen Fry with his patented predictable old jokes is a problem at the end. Otherwise, it's witty, observant and moves quickly. Filled with great lines like "Is she French or is she affected" (about Claudette Colbert).

[quote]One of the most popular and versatile performers in early 20th century England

"Versatile?" He always seemed like more of a bottom to me.

One of my favorite parts of the movie is that the family consider the servants to be almost invisible (unless they wanted to fuck one of them) with no agency of lives of their own and the movie shows there is this whole world of personalities, intrigues, etc. that the grouchy family, constantly picking at one another, have no idea about it. Lady Sylvia speculates on the relationship between the sisters & the complain about how hard it is to find good help, but it's such a contrast to DA in which the family was always about the servants & their various dramas

The Stephen Fry character weighed the thing down a bit. It was like it was a character for another film.

Yea, Fry was awful. Badly directed or just a crudy performance?

Improvisation gone awry.

Mirren helps save the end with an assist from Eileen ("he wasn't exactly Father Christmas") Atkins.

How can a man marry into a title?

He can't. The sisters' father was an Earl. Gambon's character held a baronetcy.

[quote] Bob Balaban stinks up every movie he appears in. Is he Robert Altman's nephew or something?

His uncle was head of Paramount Pictures. His father & other uncle owned a movie theater corporation & stage theaters. You could say he’s connected.

I loved this movie when I first saw it. Not sure why Ryan Philippe didn't bother me then, because he makes it pretty much unwatchable now. Stephen Fry has gotten so pathetic since it was made, so I naturally project that onto his character.

If memory serves, Helen Mirren is a tour de force.

Helen was in it surprisingly little and only had two great scenes at the end.

Meg Owen was in it. She played James's poor wife, Hazel, who died of the Spanish Flu in 1917, in Upstairs, Downstairs. In Gosford Park she played a lady's maid.

R58 I thought Upstairs, Downstairs finished off in 1912?

Bought marmalade? Oh dear, I call that very feeble.

Elsie liked him because he supported her dreams and made her feel she could do anything if she set her mind to it. She's very aware of class difference and what her opportunities are, and he is at least willing to give lip service to her chances. Remember how Freddie is making such a fool of himself to Elsie (he married the glove makers daughter for her money, and he doesn't have the brains to pull it off - but Elsie definitely has the brains to pull it off, and by the end of the movie she might be going to Hollywood herself.

I liked the fat maid that keeps getting dick all through out the movie - no personal crisis for her - she's just taking all comers (pun intended)

I think Stephen Frye is there to represent the middle class - he dismisses the servants as not having any real connection to the murdered lord, and tries very hard to kiss up to his widow (I fought with your husband) in a way that shows he is socially awkward.

The original Upstairs, Downstairs ended after James's suicide in 1930. Robert Altman must have been a fan.

Stephen Fry was there because he was a name and available. Otherwise, there's no mystery without a detective.

My favorite dialogue in the movie:

Constance: Tell me, how longer are you going to go on making films?

Ivor Novello: I suppose that rather depends on how much longer the public want to see me in them.

Constance: It must be hard to know when it's time to throw in the towel... What a pity about that last one of yours... what was it called? "The Dodger"?

Ivor Novello: The Lodger.

Constance: Oh. It must be so disappointing when something just *flops* like that.

^ Better:

Bob: Oh, I couldn't tell you that, it would spoil it for you.

Mags: Well, none of us will ever see it.

Julian Fellows wrote the script.

^Do you imagine that is news to US?

The only historically correct use of paired fish forks in cinema.

The Cilla bio ITV produced is really good. I really like the scene were Burt rehearsed her a 100 times for Alfie. The guy who played Brian was quite good, too.

What part did Cilla play in Gosford?

[quote]^Do you imagine that is news to US?

It's news to me. I always thought it was written by Julian FELLOWES.

I get why Helen didn't win, she wasn't given enough to do in spite of how terrific she was at the end

[quote] she wasn't given enough to do

All the Brits didn't have enough to do. Bob (Stinking Nepotism) Balaban took over the picture.

[quote] Stephen Fry has gotten so pathetic since it was made

The Anorak Brigade used to adore him and the annoying BBC had him on 3 nights a week.

[quote] Bob (Stinking Nepotism) Balaban took over the picture.

The movie was his idea. He’s the one who came up with the premise and put Altman & Fellowes together.

R58 - I did not recognise Meg Wynn Owen as Lewis the maid of Sylvia though I knew her in Upstairs, Downstairs. I will have to watch the movie again.

Emily Watson looks broad and tall in this movie in comparison to the other women though she is only 1.73 m.

Funny, I had the same impression, now you mention it.

R66

You may be aware of this already, but I'd like to point out that there's an additional layer of irony to that scene, because that film was directed by Hitchcock, and is now regarded as his first masterpiece.

They are referring to the second version of The Lodger, a 1932 sound version not directed by Hitchcock which was the flop.

Oh, I see - interesting, r82.

I found Jeremy Northam to be delicious in this film.

Meg Wynn Owen has a few speaking lines which - I hope - mean she was paid more. I have always wondered if she got hired because someone loved her character in Upstairs Downstairs and wanted to help her out.

R84

I find Jeremy Northam delicious in every film. I just find him delicious, period.

Would still love to know for what team he plays. Not that I'd have a chance in hell. Just curious.

Jeremy Northam is well into middle age now.

No nude scenes for him now.

Jeremy Northam could be Tom Ellis' older brother...I would love to see the nude scenes...

Jeremy played Anthony Eden in "The Crown." He's still hot, in my book.

Bought marmalade.

Dear me, I call that very feeble.

I was pleased to realize that Gambon's character's death means the old Countess' pension is safe forever: Her niece Sylvia would never take it away, as her bitchy aunt seems to be one of the few people Lady Sylvia likes and respects.

While I'm speculating on what happened to the characters after the film ended, I'll venture that Isobel finally scraped up the courage to tell her mother she'd gotten into trouble, and Lady Sylvia whisked her off to London for a D&C from a pet doctor as quick as poss.

If you pay close attention to the dialog, you'll notice that Isobel has already managed to get rid of her pregnancy, no thanks to her mother. That's largely what Freddie is blackmailing her about (threatening to tell her father).

What makes you say that, R91? I always assumed that her last conversation with Elsie suggested that Isobel was pregnant and still trying to figure out what to do. She subtly asks Elsie if there's any chance SHE'S pregnant, and Elsie assures her there isn't. Isobel says something like "Yes, you were cleverer than I was." I read that as indicating Isobel was still pregnant. How would a sheltered teenager be able to figure out an abortion in 1930s England? She'd need her sophisticated, well-connected mother to arrange it for her.

I thought Freddie was blackmailing her about the affair and pregnancy, not about an abortion. But there are lots of things hiding in the dialogue in GP, so if you heard something else, I'd love to hear about it.

I agree it was written that she was pregnant but not longer is. The character isn't panicked enough to still be pregnant and all discussion is past tense. There is never anything to suggest 'what am I going to do?' about a baby that is yet to make its presence known.

[quote] Jeremy played Anthony Eden in "The Crown." He's still hot, in my book

There real Anthony Eden was hotter, imo

[quote] "Versatile?" He always seemed like more of a bottom to me.

R47 You're right Noël, Ivor wasn't as versatile as yourself but he was an extremely popular closeted performer/songwriter back in your salad days.

Unfortunately all his efforts are now completely out of fashion.

I haven't watched this American-Agatha-Christie-pastiche for a very long time now.

But my memory tells me that Maggie Smith plays a character whIch was shamelessly plagiarised from that of Lady Augusta Bracknell.

And that 'Downton' show repeated the purloinment!

Isobel consistently portrays a flat emotional affect: Even pregnant and panicked, she wouldn't be running around screaming.

She isn't resourceful and independent like Elsie: Without Sylvia to take her to a helpful doctor, Isobel could never get an abortion. The only other way she could have avoided giving birth to Freddy's bastard baby is if she had a convenient miscarriage.

OK, R97, if it's that important to you.

The other possibility is that Sylvia already got Isobel the abortion, hence her pissiness towards her daughter in the film. If Isobel didn't tell her mother the identity of the real father of the fetus, Sylvia would have assumed that it was Lord Rupert Standish, Isobel's boyfriend. That might also explain Sylvia's cold attitude towards Lord Rupert: She won't even let him and his friend eat in the dining room with the rest of the guests.

It's made clear at the end that Rupert isn't going to propose because he's a penniless younger son and Isobel won't inherit anything until her mother dies. And even if Sylvia thought Rupert was the father of Isobel's baby, she wouldn't have insisted that Isobel marry Rupert because he IS a younger son. Socially ambitious mothers always wanted the heir to the title for their daughters. In fact, it may have been Sylvia who let it be known that Isobel would get no direct inheritance from her recently dead father, chasing off Rupert for good.

Freddie's blackmail would be telling her parents she had an affair with and got pregnant by a married man, something her parents would be far angrier about than an 'oopsie' with her boyfriend--and they were angry enough about THAT.

Hmm. That IS a storyline I never considered, but it fits with what we know of all the characters and their actions. Thanks for giving me something new to think about vis a vis Gosford!

Don't pull that shit, R98. This is a thread for analyzing Gosford Park. If you don't give a damn about the movie or its characters, why the fuck are you here?

It's you and your insistence on a theme that only you imagine to be credible that I don't give a damn about. You're very touchy and modestly fun to wind up. Let's just let it go. I think it's more important to you than me, so I officially agree with you. Isobel is either pregnant at the end of the film or Sylvia helped her get an abortion and that's why Sylvia is pissy (because a shallow, predatory, hard hearted woman like Sylvia would never just resent an ugly daughter (not even a son) by a man she married coldly for money and holds in unhidden contempt) or whatever else you want. It matters to you. Calm down. Don't embarrass yourself.

And I'm here because it's one of my favourite films.

You're embarrassing yourself by being a pissy bitch because someone doesn't agree with your theory, and your snotty condescension doesn't make you appear one bit smarter. Trying to win an argument with the "sorry, didn't know YOU cared so much" tactic is juvenile. But I agree this isn't worth arguing about because you aren't worth arguing with.

Blocked and moving on.

OP, your Helen Reddy thread needs some attention. Quit trolling with your faux-praise threads.

I liked the way Elsie turned up her nose at the machine-made lace. And I felt very sorry for Mabel Nesbitt.

It's always sad to see decent threads inevitably degrade into childish name calling between a couple of posters who point fingers and go nyaa-nyaaa-na-na-na like Meghan McCain would do.

Why bother bickering with and exchanging personal insults with an anonymous message board poster? Honestly.

I had a real problem because the film never dealt with the rampant antisemitism of the British upper class. Balaban's character would have been the target of constant digs and snide remarks.

Is it me or are trolls turning up in every thread to disrupt and bully?

R107, are you new here? This has been the case for the past ten years.

R106 I just watched it last night for the first time in maybe 10 years. I can't say you're wrong about what you say, but on the other hand, it came across to me as if the Brits were so dismissive of him, it was practically as if he wasn't there at all. A couple of the younger family members and many of he help were impressed by the actor, but the Jewish filmmaker was invisible for all intents and purposes. One of them made an offhand remark about him being loud on the phone toward the end, and otherwise they interacted with him almost as little as they interacted with the servants, except when Maggie Smith was mocking him for his lowly status.

The thing that stood out to me with this viewing was that Maggie's character derived *all* of her joy from the servants. I found that really interesting. Not only did she urge her maid to share the gossip from downstairs and delight in their antics, but she showed real delight when the butler dropped coffee on Ryan Phillippe's lap. She couldn't stop laughing. And at one point, before going out shooting, she asked why "one has to do these things." She obviously looked down on their station and addressed them from a self-centered perspective, but Maggie's character got all of her delight in life vicariously through the servants. I never noticed that before.

And yes, Emily Watson looks very tall in the movie! What an interesting thing. I wonder why they decided to make her character tower over everone like Brienne of Tarth if Watson isn't a giant in real life. Her character did end up being one with the most gumption and backbone, so maybe it subtly reinforced her strength and suggests she will be OK? She comments at the end that she is fine aside from being unemployed and homeless, but the actor offering to drive her to London and the glance she shares with Mary suggests she may be heading to Hollywood...

Fellowes doesn't seem to have the depth to tackle the anti-Semitism meaningfully (acknowledging he did later in Downton and I thought did a really good job of it, though maybe because of the actresses who embodied it.) They seemed far more contemptuous of him for being American.

I read the script (I order them from time to time because it's always interesting to see what gets cut. Downton was interesting because the stuff that got caught was usually just a few lines, not entire scenes, but they often made the character more nuanced and interesting. As I recall, Co-wah was not as dumb as she seemed, early on.) Not much here in Gosford but there is a scene between the red haired sister - Louisa - who finds McCordle and Charles Dance, who plays her husband. It is even clearer she had a relationshiip with McCordle that exceeds boundaries, but she is so tired of having the husband throw it in her face, she is threatening to send him home and stay on at Gosford. There is a battle of wills - and subtext - over whether she stays or goes and in the end he clearly caves and she has won her peace on the matter.

But if anyone recalls, did you get an air of hostility or resentment between Louisa and Sylvia as the Stockbridges departed? I always thought I picked up on some tension there, though the exchange is fleeting.

R106 … rampant antisemitism…

I don't know how you can claim that. There was nothing interfering with the careers of these important Jewish filmmakers working in England at that time.

Michael Balcon (1896–1977). Victor Myer Salberg (1897–1979. Isidore Ostrer (1889–1975). Erich Pommer (1889 – 1966). John Sutro (1903 – 1985) Paul Soskin (1905 – 1975).

The movie involves class divides, a murder, marriage for wealth, a dead child, giving up a child, revenge and a lot of other "heavy issues," but nothing at all about it is heavy. Ultimately, it's a lighthhearted farce, and I think something like antisemitism in a way is harder to approach lightly than even murder is. We are used to murders in mystery stories as being plot elements separate from the real horror of a person being killed, but no one today is used to the notion of antisemitism being addressed without seriousness and heaviness because we can't not associate it with the horrors of the holocaust. I just think bringing that into the story would be a little too heavy for the delicate balance it needs.

The anti-semitism is implied but not really spoken.

I always felt Altman movies were more character studies than message films. At least in Gosford, he takes the setting, starts the film, reveals all the moving parts (people) and lets the moments play out. Some are resolved, some are left dangling, some are open to interpretation when the film stops. I haven't watched any Altman probably since Gosford. I remember The Player and Nashville and A Wedding or The Wedding (?) as somewhat similar in nature but they may have had more linear plots. It's been a long time.

R113 Where is it 'implied'?

Did you imagine you saw one of the actors sneer with their lips?

Did you imagine you heard a condescending moue in the voice of one of the actors?

Who? When?

The movie would probably get terrible reviews today. Critics would expect that the movie would dissect social and economic inequality and proclaim it a failure on every level and denounce its casting.

I can imagine Teen Vogue publishing something like, "Even if Altman were insistent that its cast must be British, why not cast Idris Elba as the Hollywood actor? Surely, he is more of a heartthrob than some wonky-faced white dude. And why not Thandie Newton as a lead—and NOT one of the help? This movie is so problematic, it's hard to know where to begin. Not one discussion of the elephant in the room, how literally everyone upstairs is part of the one percent and has a responsibility to lift up those without Privilege? This movie is literally the most offensive thing I have ever seen in my 23 years of life. I'm going to have to watch 24 hours of The Bachelor to cleanse my mind of this horror show. F-."

I couldn't understand half of the dialogue. I went with an English friend, who told me SHE couldn't understand it either.

WEHT Kelly Mc?

R118 Kelly Mac works constantly

She did a romance movie with Bill Nighy but she was dull as so I lost interest.

Julian Fellowes directed a film with Emily Watson, Tom Wilkinson and Rupert Everett called Separate Lies which is very good.

Has anyone here read Fellowes' novel "Snobs"? Is it any good?

Emoly Watson evades the radar but she deserves the acclaim that Kate, Meryl, Cate and Nicole get.

Ryan Phillippe's peach fuzz covered bussy is begging to be fucked all the way through this movie

R114: Altman's films were filled with messages: MASH, Nashville, The Player. Helen Keller could have figured that out.

R115: "funny little man", reactions to his cultural ignorance. Balaban comes from a movie family--they owned theaters and had a piece of Paramount for awhile because of that. Given that he and others improvised, I would assume that he knew how to talk about anti-semitism w/o being direct about it, which fits the tone of the film. He would know that anti-semitism wasn't always blatant even when the semite was out of the room and the association of film and Jews is something he would have known well. Balaban developed the film with Fellows and Altman. The only real snob about servants is Stephen Fry's oafish character, yet the whole movie is about class differences. The only bad words about the upper class people from the servants is regarding the impregnating of factory workers or the downward economic slide of Mabel Nesbitt. They have more shade for the Ryan Phillipe character.

R116: Doubtful. There have long been critics who wanted more social direct comment from films. Dave Kehr in his pre-Tribune and NYT days was a good example. Ditto people writing for liberal publications.

I don't get the hate for Balaban. He had some of the best lines in the film, like the digs at Una Merkel and Claudette Colbert, which were better with his usual deadpan delivery.

R125, I hope that made you feel better about yourself.

[quote] The only real snob about servants is Stephen Fry's oafish character, yet the whole movie is about class differences.

Not a coincidence. The police are a middle class profession, and Fellowes HATES the middle class, because he’s ashamed he’s one of them and not an aristocrat.

R86, he has always pinged to me. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

R84, R129 Middle-aged Northam is fully settled into family life.

But you can lust over him shirtlessly prick-teasing in this THIRTY-year old video—

R130

Do you know him personally? Can you introduce us?

I just checked again; his only IMDB attachment was a marriage to Liz Moro from 2005 - 2009. Not that that means anything one way or another.

Thanks for the link. I'm going to check that out.

[quote]WEHT Kelly Mc?

She was terrific as the main character in the most recent season of "Line of Duty."

Anyone here ever see Boardwalk Empire on HBO? ? Because Kelly was wonderful in that.

I am considering blocking R116 in order to test my supposition that he makes a habit of wandering into threads and introducing his racist, anti-black animus, even into topics that have absolutely nothing to do with black people whatsoever.

Anyone care to wager how many such posts I might find?

Dear R134, I think R116 is tongue-in-cheek. He is teasing us.

Jeremy Northam is a yummy treat and there's been innuendo about him for years.

He's also an excellent singer. I bought the Gosford Park soundtrack just to hear him sing all those lovely songs.

You can argue that the Stephen Fry's character, the Chief Inspector, is a weak link in the film and maybe it sorta/kinda is but it was intentional. The original premise or pitch for the film was to do a "period British murder mystery a la Agatha Christie" but Altman was more interested in getting all those characters together in that house and letting them interact than having to much about with a straightforward mystery scenario.

I feel a bit sorry for Fry and for Ryan Phillippe for playing awkward characters that don't quite fit in with the rest of the movie but it all oddly works. They were smart and made Phillippe's character's awkward presence part of the story and the Inspector is just there because you have to have one in a murder mystery.

I also think there's quite a few people who don't understand how Altman works especially when it comes to his use of improvisation. Actors don't necessarily just show up and start making things up on set. And, Altman's style varied from project to project; some of his films being more improvised than others. From what I've read, Gosford Park was formally scripted and while details were added and changed during the filming process and things rewritten with a lot of participation from the actors (some more than others) it was largely the script Fellowes had written. But, the fact Gosford Park is an extraordinarily fine film and Downton Abbey is a silly soap opera that verges on out and out dreck is testament that Altman was the key to polishing and enhancing any words written by Fellowes.

And, also, Gosford Park has an exceptional cast of very experienced and talented veteran actors who brought a lot to the table.

Downton Abbey has Dame Maggie largely phoning it in for a paycheck, and that's about it.

I think Julian Fellowes says on his DVD audio commentary that Helen Mirren and Eileen Atkins improvised the dialogue in their climactic scene.

[quote] Downton Abbey has Dame Maggie largely … … …

Yes, it may have descended into soap opera but—

1. It had costumes which were of museum quality and utterly accurate (though they may not have been flattering to the wearer or have appeased our 21st century taste).

2. It was painfully constricted by the odd democratic notion that all 16 characters had to have equal screen time and a small plot development in each and every episode.

R139 And, the costumes always look just like that...costumes. They never feel like real clothes worn by real people.

Downton is dreadful in every single aspect. It's poorly written, directed, produced, and acted.

And, there's no attention to period at all...characters interact with each other in ways that aren't the slightest bit authentic.

ANYWAYS...I'll stop bitching about awful Downton and only think lovely thoughts about the far superior Gosford.

Everyone has always said Gosford was the pilot for Downton.

R139: If Downton was so democratic, why did Cora have so little screen time or character development? Ditto Thomas? And why did we have so much of Edith?

Homely Edith provided inspiration for millions of homely women across the globe.

Cora was on screen constantly but I agree her blank personality sucked the energy from the room. She was as mousey as all those servants downstairs.

And yes, Thomas' character 'development' was rather unlikely.

[quote] Yes, it may have descended into soap opera but— 1. It had costumes which were of museum quality and utterly accurate (though they may not have been flattering to the wearer or have appeased our 21st century taste).

Museum quality, historically accurate clothing has no relevance to the quality of the production. As Downton Abbey so richly demonstrates.

[quote] historically accurate clothing has no relevance to the quality of the production.

I can't help but notice when actors pretending to be poor cattle farmers in New Mexico go to church wearing inappropriate clothing

I rewatched last week and thought Northam's character is probably either gay or bi, the way he interacted with the director as well as the chummy way he interacted with the women.

I rewatched last week and the film is set in a large English country house.

Thank you, R135. It's encouraging to see that a few human beings can still see beyond the surface.

R146

In Gosford Park Northam was playing Ivor Novello, who was gay.

"Ivor Novello, the suave actor-composer played so personably by Jeremy Northam in the movie, was a real person, and...the songs Northam sings in his untrained but persuasive baritone really are Novello's."

I thought Mirren was excellent in her last two scenes but I do understand why she didn't win, she does have enough to do. Maggie stole the show but had much more time to do it in.

It was a change from Maggie's role as the irritating Fascist lesbian prep school teacher which won her a best actress Oscar before.