Should England rejoin the European Union?

This makes me laugh, because there is this assumption that the EU would be willing to readmit England in the club. I think in the UK there is a real underestimation of how fed up Europeans are with the Brits. Brexit has been so protracted and acrimonious, largely due to the spoilt brat antics of the UK, that there is no goodwill left on the European side. Certainly not for a generation.

Besides, if it was to ever happen, the EU would make sure that England (or the Uk) has remained out for long enough to feel the pain and therefore come back begging. At which point the EU would not grant England/the UK any of the many opt-outs it had in the past. That time, England would have to be fully in, and shut the fuck up. Which I’m not sure it’s ever capable of, and the EU wouldn’t want to risk letting in another troublesome member. It’s already dealing with Poland and Hungary at the moment. So no, not happening.

Brexit was a mistake, but I don’t think there’s any turning back now.

There was an excellent film on HBO a couple of years ago on Brexit, starring Cumberbatch. Brexit was the trial run for Cambridge Analytica and the Mercers to first get the Brits to buy a nonsensical product to later sell the US Trump. Ted Cruz - the Mercers' original candidate - even had a cameo. When Cruz lost, CA and the Mercers transferred their campaign to Trump.

Well there should be a committee to look into what happened and if there was was some foul play involved in the decision.

WTF?! It took them 4 years to finally get the damn thing done. Even though the vote was close and there’s a lot of support for rejoining the EU, they’re going to have to live with their decision for at least several years.

No one wants them. Or their racist monarchy.

We're not rejoining Jesus Christ. It took 40 years of obstructing everything the block did to force that sweet deal we had pre-Brexit. The economic and political sky would actually have to fall in for us to adopt the Euro and all the other opt outs we use to avoid. And at present the supermarkets at least in GB are still supplied, their hasn't been a massive spike in unemployment and the economy is growing again after lockdown. Brexit was a mistake and its overall weakened our position on the world stage but you'd need starving mobs roving Whitehall before someone decides to ask for membership again.

Just England dear?

I’d like to see Scotland vote for independence and rejoin the EU. It has some momentum, but I doubt it happens.

No, bitches — once you’re out, you’re out!

“The continent” doesn’t want you back..

r9 Oh Scotland being independent is inevitable at this point they keep voting SNP and rejoining is pretty much a core manifesto policy for them now. I doubt it'll be as easy getting back in as they seem to think, and they're in for a shock when they see the membership requirements the UK dodged that they'll now have to sign up for. But I'd be amazed if that isn't what's going to happen, granted with the addition of the remaining UK scalping them for the privilege of leaving the union during this period.

IDGAF.

It's their business, not mine.

A political commentator suggested that the UK would have spend some time out of the EU and, I thought it was good point regardless of whether the UK re-joins at some point in the future.

His point seemed to be that the UK needs to actually spend time outside of the EU to have a bit of a rough time, to experience of what it's like be on the outside looking in and, ultimately, for opinions to change,.

England did leave the EU--the UK did.

[quote][R9] Oh Scotland being independent is inevitable at this point they keep voting SNP and rejoining is pretty much a core manifesto policy for them now. I doubt it'll be as easy getting back in as they seem to think, and they're in for a shock when they see the membership requirements the UK dodged that they'll now have to sign up for. But I'd be amazed if that isn't what's going to happen, granted with the addition of the remaining UK scalping them for the privilege of leaving the union during this period.

Aside from all the issues around corruption and incompetence surrounding the Scottish government, they have two choices if they get independence.

1. Join the EU and the single market, which will mean a hard border between Scotland and England along with the huge issues that come with adopting a new currency.

2. Don't join the EU and work out their own currency and trading arrangements.

Scottish Nationalists are a broad church and for all their talk of "civic nationalism" they are some of the nastiest, most insular people you can find in Europe. The idea of leaving the evil UK and the London slavemasters only to give up so much power to Brussels will be hard fought.

There really isn't a huge amount of difference between the deluded economic outlooks of ScotNats and Brexiteers, but for most of them it's not an issue about general financial wellbeing, it's a case of US FIRST.

No. They don’t need to be forced to take part in all the migrant shit that the EU makes every country do.

Certainly people in the UK who would rather be in the EU should migrate there. That way everyone could be happy.

Vaccination: Breakdown by country

Should they? Yes, in the long term it's the right choice.

Will they? No time soon.

Sure, if they adapt the Euro and either French and German as their national language. (Ok, maybe Dutch.).

Rejoining the EU and converting to the Euro will absolutely destroy the British economy. The entire EU was a bad idea from the first rumors of it in the late eighties. It is simply a way for poor countries to have rich countries pay for the poor countys' welfare payments.

UK will cease. It will be just plain old England. Ireland and Scotland will be gone with 24 months. The empire is no more. I suspect the "commonwealth" will be gone within 10 years as well.

Absolutely not.

[quote] Oh Scotland being independent is inevitable at this point they keep voting SNP and rejoining is pretty much a core manifesto policy for them now.

That’s a fever dream. If you don’t believe me, just ask the Province of Quebec how their dreams of independence panned out. Better for Scotland to take a cue from them and pretend to be an independent “nation” while still sucking on teat of the rest of the federation.

I think the UK should have stayed, but now I'm glad they're finally out. The last four years really turned me into 'just leave already'.

At this point I feel the same about Poland and Hungary. Nobody forced these countries into the EU. If you don't like being part of it, don't be in it. It's like a really bad marriage. One spouse is constantly complaining that they're treated unfairly, but doesn't do anything about it. And the other spouse is just tolerating the joyless union. They could divorce and do their own thing. But they don't. I guess the sex is still OK.

R25 Poland and Hungary get more money back from the EU than they contribute, so why would they leave? The U.K. was a net contributor.

If Scotland were to gain independence they would need to join the EU asap as they can’t pay for themselves. I would hope the British government would then block all access to free NHS healthcare and revoke their right to use the Pound. Who would pay all their benefits, their free university education, free healthcare?

LOL - the question is not whether it should rejoin the EU.

The question is whether the EU should let them rejoin without imposing HUGE penalties, ahem administrative charges, for all the time, effort, end expenses the rest of the EU incurred when they left the first time.

The UK should try to encourage other EU countries to break free.

[quote] The UK should try to encourage other EU countries to break free.

Sure, Svetlana.

[quote] UK will cease. It will be just plain old England. Ireland and Scotland will be gone with 24 months. The empire is no more. I suspect the "commonwealth" will be gone within 10 years as well.

Umm, hello!!!

[quote] Scotland will be gone with 24 months

No they won't. Brexit took 4 years and that was following a laid down framework. There's no set down method for Scotland leaving the union. It'll take them 4 years just to determine how to split the national debt neverminded dividing state assets. It'll be a years long hostage negotiation while the press in both countries whip their governments to screw as much as they can out of each other. That said if Northern Ireland ever votes to leave I suspect the speed the Tories boot them back to the republic would likely break the sound barrier.

Most of the Brits I know who were pro-Brexit were fed up with the Eastern Europeans flooding into the UK, taking jobs, bankrupting the NHS and social welfare programs. The idea that Brexit was aimed at keeping black and brown people out of the UK is odd. The black and brown people came from the Commonwealth, not the EU.

The EU made a major mistake letting Poland, exYugo, etc. join: Eastern Europeans also flooded into France, Italy and Germany and they aren't welcome.

[quote] The EU made a major mistake letting Poland, exYugo, etc. join

That was Margaret Thatcher’s doing.

Brexit is just the beginning of the end for Britain. I expect it's all downhill from here on.

Please forgive my American ignorance, but is there any support for independence for Wales?

Nobody wants the nasty rotten mouthed brits back, so it's a moot point.

England should sink into the ocean.

Rejoining would not be good either for England nor for the EU. Scotland is another matter.

R31, Scotland will be gone and independent. Mark my words

The year England became a 3rd world country

I would love if the first thing Scotland did as an independent nation was to repossess Balmoral and turn it into a national park.

No thanks, it took us 4 years to leave that shitshow.

[quote] Poland and Hungary get more money back from the EU than they contribute, so why would they leave?

Not everything can be quantified in terms of money. There is no price on autonomy. Poland and Hungary, having finally come out from under the Soviet thumb, are especially sensitive to unelected Brussels bureaucrats dictating evermore oppressive policy at them.

[quote]Not everything can be quantified in terms of money. There is no price on autonomy. Poland and Hungary, having finally come out from under the Soviet thumb, are especially sensitive to unelected Brussels bureaucrats dictating evermore oppressive policy at them.

Hungary and Poland are currently trying to strip women and gay people of their basic human rights. The EU tuts and tweets the odd condemnation but nothing will happen.

What R41 said.

All of this will have be re-examined and reconsidered when Big Liz kicks the bucket. A popular push to repossess Balmoral probably does not exist at the moment. But when Charles takes over... Scotland will soon be ready to take control of Balmoral. Why should the English king vacation in a foreign country??? Let him get a flat by the sea in Blackpool.

Elizabeth has been in place for all of the lives of most of the people living in the UK. Lots of things will be looking different after she leaves the planet. It won't all transfer easily to the oaf Charles.

I would think that after the EU's bungling of COVID vaccination, in comparison to the UK's relatively successful roll-out, would have quieted any calls to return to the EU.

Balmoral is the Queen’s personal property. She can holiday there all she likes. I am not keen on all the tartanalia and outdated nonsense that goes with it. I am a republican, and I would prefer to see radical changes in the Highlands to promote employment and better infrastructure, but the fact remains that it belongs to her. It has been passed down in the family since Queen Victoria, who had it built.

Eminent domain!

Nothing for the Saxe-Coburg Gothas to fear as long as the UK remains... U. But if Scotland leaves, the matter of Balmoral becomes more interesting.

The EU needs to be restructured so that German banks don't run the Euro. The monetary union is a complete failure. The UK actually fared well in the monetary regime though so they really had no legitimate (self centered) reason to leave.

my Scottish partner is pro-monarchy and only pro-independence when Scotland is playing football or rugby

Lot of non-Brits posting what they pulled out of their arses on here.

May I remind you 80 million Americans voted for a fascist wannabe totalitarian dictator Trump and 45 state legislatures are currently trying to suppress voting rights to ensure the rightwing stays in power.

Physician, heal thyself.

The EU should be disbanded altogether.

The EU let the fucking backward Eastern European countries join so they would constitute a 'superpower'. Lest we forget, Eastern Europeans were happy to be Nazis in WWII and they were happy to be commies when they were overrrun by the Russians. Now they seem to be trending rightward toward fascism. Kick their asses out.

England should have colonized every inch of mainland Europe as payback for World War II. Still not too late to do that. It is even more justified now.

England will always be superior to the rest of the mainland European trash. Funny how the same people who pestered Britain to give up her empire insist on it being locked in this corrupt animal organization that exists only to finish what that racist kraut Hitler started. And they refuse to do a thing about those homophobic Polacks.

R52, would you rather the Eastern Europeans be Russian?

[quote] Hungary and Poland are currently trying to strip women and gay people of their basic human rights.

Based.

I would rather the entirety of Europe be colonized by the United Kingdom as collective punishment for the axis powers’ war crimes.

There will be no peace on earth until the union jack flies over all of Europe and bows down to the Queen.

Mmmm R46 have you checked the latest figures? Vaccination has slowed majorly in the UK while many EU countries have surpassed its rate or will do in the coming days / weeks.

Everyone is conveniently ignoring one of the main functions of the EU, that of maintaining peace in Europe and to avoid another major war in Europe. It has been successful in that, by fostering a commonality of cultural exchange between the countries.

If this requires a financial loss by some countries and a gain by others I think most Europeans would acknowledge how worthwhile that is. I know most non Europeans are just jealous of the opportunity we have to work and live in so many different countries without any visa difficulties.

Make all of Europe part of the British Empire.

Colonize whiteness.

Colonize Europe.

R58 I give ‘Britain’ 15 years before it’s all separated into its individual states. Wow it’s gonna be messy lol. London will be paying social support for NI for a century.

For its long, sordid history of imperialism and war crimes, mainland Europe deserves to be colonized by the British Empire.

As far as I’m concerned, the war will be over when the union jack is flying over Paris, Rome, and especially Berlin.

UK is better off having their complete sovereignty. The shit is going to hit the fan and there will de IMMENSE pressure in Europe to let in desperate migrants. It will put the last wave to shame. Let's see who replaced Merkel.

England wanted out, stay out. Scotland didn’t, it could join.

An EU paid for by the Germans and run by the French will be fine. All those little basket case countries in the east and around the Mediterranean need supranational institutions to keep them in working order.

passed down in the family since Queen Victoria

Who also did NOTHING but be pushed out of a royal vag, the people are the original owners of all that money being squandered on these people.

The problem isn't Britain. It's:

-- The EU mission creeping its way from a being a trading union into becoming a political and military union.

-- The German-Franco power duopoly leaving Britain without a voice commensurate with its size.

No sign whatever of these factors changing.

R18 Malta has an adult population of under 370,000. More health professionals per head than almost any other country and in 3 months they haven't vaccinated half of the population.

Every town has a couple of health centers and the same number of pharmacies, Its tiny. It should have taken a week, their efforts are pretty pathetic.

American here and I've never understood the EU. European countries have all despised each other for centuries, and until relatively recently they've spent most of their time basically trying to annihilate one another for thousands of years. Did they really think creating the EU would make them all get along? From an outsider's perspective, it's not surprising that it would never really work.

[quote] The EU let the fucking backward Eastern European countries join so they would constitute a 'superpower'.

The opposite is actually true. The UK and some other countries in the EU pushed for more countries in order to weaken the union, not to strengthen it. A smaller EU would have been much easier in terms of consensus building. Everybody knew that a union with more countries would be far more difficult to control. That was exactly in the interest of the UK which wanted the EU to be a mere economic union, not a political union. Another reason for adding eastern-European countries was to promote and maintain democratic values - which had worked well when Portugal, Spain and Greece joined the EU. So they thought (hoped?) it may work again.

Block r56 and the extreme crazy on this thread disappears.

R69 Europeans fought 2 wars on their territory in the past century. It scared them about divisive politics. I think the fact things are so much worse here than there - all these domestic terrorists, Trump's crazed cult- could only happen here precisely because we haven't had a war on our soil in 150 years. Collective memory of the suffering caused by extremist politics has died off.

But Europeans are still fighting and hate each other.

The history of Europe is the history of War.

The EU is the political/social experiment born out of the very efficient EEC, started by the Dutch and the Italians. I would love for the EEC to make a comeback, although I would prefer to have all of Scandinavia in, with the UK out.

[quote] But Europeans are still fighting and hate each other.

You got some proof for that? There is no war; Europeans are no-where close to go to war at each other. Hate? You mean in a hyperbolic sense? Or do you really believe there is hate like in 1914 or 1939?

Europeans still hate each other, that will never change. They're like red state/blue state Americans.

That's not comparable at all. Either you are not familiar with the US or the EU. Relationships within the EU are not agitated, so speaking of 'hate' is really the wrong term. They may have a hard time understanding each others' motives but that's not hate. Stop making shit up.

The EU won't want them back, so whatever the UK (the entire UK left not just England, you fool) wants doesn't really matter.

There are some real loons on this thread. This is 2021, not 1921. The UK has no real armed forces to "colonize Europe," whatever that means. LOL.

Europe is being colonized all right, but not by the British.

[quote] Europe is being colonized all right, but not by the British.

Praise Allah.

Time to block two of those loons. I wish the blocking feature worked better, but nonetheless it's a great relief.

OP is yet another American who cannot differentiate between England, Great Britain and the United Kingdom.

"England" is often used as shorthand for Britain. Americans aren't the only ones who do that.

What they really need to do is dump the Tories. BoJo, Rees-Moggs and Nigel Farage should be set out in a rowboat in the middle of the Atlantic this winter with one bottle of water and one blanket to share. Thankfully, we have 3 branches of government and, having dumped Trump, we can now work on repairing things. The poor UK is stuck with the whole ugly package.

You can tell that this is most likely an American who wrote this because a) England voted for Brexit while Scotland and Northern Ireland didn't, so this is weird b) Brexit hasn't been a disaster. We have food in the shops, house prices have gone up and not down, and so on. Project Fear did not come true.

Yeah, we know you hate people of color, dejure. We got it.

By 2050, it's predicted that 1.2b people in Africa and the Middle East will have been displaced by climate change, and Europe is the logical destination for at least half of them. The UK outside the EU will have no requirement to accommodate them, while the EU will act geographically as a foreign buffer state.

R88 People of colour in the UK never came from the EU, they mostly came from former colonies. The rules for their entry haven't changed because of Brexit.

R89 The rules for the Middle East and Africa also remain unchanged.

If I were a Briton, I’d be rather chagrined at having my EU passport taken away. Imagine once having the right to live and work all over Europe without having to go through any of the hassle with visas and work permits and then just like that such a right vanishes.

R91, doesn't bother me. I can still travel to EU countries for vacations. It's not a big deal for likely over 95% of people here.

Don’t you mean “holidays”?

No, R92. It is a big deal for every citizen of the UK. Some very important rights were lost with Brexit. And a loss of one's legal rights is always a big deal.

All the multitude of Brits living in Spain have got to be pissed.

R93, nope, vacations.

[quote] Imagine once having the right to live and work all over Europe without having to go through any of the hassle with visas and work permits and then just like that such a right vanishes.

For British people wanting to live and work in the UK, their own country, that has no value, and if one wanted to live and work elsewhere in Europe, then why were they living in the UK?

Maybe to you, R85.

The rest of us manage to make the distinction without it requiring dumbing down.

You’re American, right?

I find using England to mostly be an American 'shorthand'. It's exclusionary of, and offensive, to the Welsh, the Scottish and the Northern Irish who are also part of the UK. You should be aware of that, dear Americans, when you do that. It's like, say, me referring to the entire of the US as 'Texas' when it's very much not.

r99 that's a ridiculous analogy.

R100, it is not at all. Texas is 1 state of multiple states that make up the US. Equally, England is 1 country that makes up the UK.

*multiple countries that make up the UK. Why do you focus on 'England'? England is not the political entity of the UK as a whole just as Texas is not the political entity of the US as a whole.

Nobody would ever think of calling the US "Texas." "England is just a shorthand, and usually when Americans say "England" they are actually referring to the specific country of England.

R103, Well, pal, unfortunately, we left the EU as the UK. Not as individual 'England', 'Scotland', 'Wales', and 'Northern Ireland'. The UK is the political entity.

The only people I've ever found to make a big fuss about this are American pendants who want to show off they know the difference.

R105, it's pedant, not pendant. And you have to be kidding? Every single person I know who refers to the UK as 'England' has been an American and when you try to explain it to them they still cannot seem to understand it.

We understand it, but we're usually referring to just England.

R107, no, in this context that makes no sense because 'England' alone cannot re-join the EU. It can only be as the 'UK'. Unless each country of the UK becomes independent but that's a really long way off just like how it's hard to think of each US state becoming independent in any kind of near future!

^^we know what he meant you pedantic prisspot fuckwit

R109, stop being arrogant Americans and try to understand what a Brit is trying to explain to you. England is not the same as the UK.

Americans always know better, R109 - or think that they do. Bless their parochial little hearts!

Anyone who say UK when they mean England alone is just a fuckwit. Being American is not an excuse for stupidity.

Guys, some of you may just say 'Sorry, I was wrong. Thank you for educating me." and then move on. Is it so difficult to take another person's advice?

The power rankings now will place US China and EU ahead of GB.

R105, do you mean 'pedant'?

To R99 and those agreeing with him, let's be perfectly clear. The ENTIRE United Kingdom is smaller than the state of Michigan. And Michigan is only the 22nd largest state in the United States of America. With pressure for Washington, D.,C., and Puerto Rico to become states, the US seems poised to grow even larger, all while Scotland and Northern Ireland are looking for the door. (The population of Northern Ireland, btw, is about 70% that of Brooklyn.)

The confusion comes from the particularly English view that the Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, are all one unified country even though they are separate nations. Or something. Kind of like the Holy Trinity, but the English have one more entity than their own official God.

But, in the end, R99 is correct. Respect must be paid to the tiny country of England and its surrounding conquered people who are all one and the same even when they are not.

Wales became part of The Kingdom of England almost 750 years ago and was even regarded as part of Provincia Britannia by the Romans.

The don't have a huge history of being independent, all of the castles you see were built by The English.

And England didn't annex Scotland, the Union came about on the death of Elizabeth 1st when James VI of Scotland also became James 1st of England. So Scotland effectively invaded England and won.

What about Cornwall? They even have their own flag you know.

R115 No, it refers to those just hanging around here waiting to strike the minute they see a typo. They make a real contribution to DL.

Whatever makes your day.

Good heavens. Why would they want Britain back?

I know a shitload of Brits who work in France and Switzerland who got work permits because the UK was in the EU. Switzerland isn't in the EU but the bilateral agreements made it possible for citizens of EU nations to get work permits there. They're worried they'll be thrown out.

"Should?" OP?

???

For whose benefit? For "England's?" By which I assume you mean the UK?

Or for the EU? Because I think the EU will manage just fine with the rest of their consortium intact, with or without the UK.

But the UK, not so much. And as others have said, it's not like they have a choice at this point. They would need to ask to be let back in, which is not only extremely unlikely on their part right now, but also unlikely that the EU would accept such a request, let alone offer it at all.

Why? What disaster? UK is doing just fine. Highest and fastest economic growth forecast out of OECD countries for the coming years. If anything, COVID proved that Brexit was the right decision.

R119 Cornwall was also part of Roman Provincia Britannia and has been part of England pretty much ever since (maybe a gap between 400-600AD).

The only place with any real argument for independence was Ireland and they gained theirs 100 years ago.

R125 Wales and Scotland and NI all have legitimate cases for independence if they so choose. And believe me it’ll be the best thing they ever do being rid of the English :)

R122 the EU will rush to throw the affluent Brits out while leaving the borders wide open for uneducated and uncivilized migrants.

Wait, who left what, now?

There’s no evidence that Scotland, Wales and NI could function as fully independent countries now. English rule is the best thing that ever happened to them.

Northern Ireland would be the white Pakistan in a year if the English left. Some people are just unable to govern themselves and need a firm overlord. Sorry but that's just reality.

R129 oh I’m sorry did you fund studies into whether or not any of those countries could function independently? The existence of Rep of Ireland is the only precedent you need. Worst thing that ever happened to anyone was the English 😂

Airlines have to be paid (subsidized) to fly to Northern Ireland, as does the ferry service from the UK. I'm afraid that that's quite a bad starting point for independence.

This was a subsidy announcement from before Covid (February 2019) it has since been increased significantly.

r131 Irish and Northern Irish are different. NI would be a third world country without the English.

Ireland needed a significant bailout after the 2008 crash, 16.5Billion of which came from the UK. Totally hidden at the time.

R134 mostly went back into British banks 😘 just paying their own shady investments back x

I think they should decide by referendum.

R135 I wish it had, but I'm afraid it was money thrown down a hole that has had to be repaid by UK taxpayers since.

Since it’s such a hassle let NI go and reunite with Ireland. How they survive is their business.

Frankly the time when England could tell anyone what to do is past.

R137 incorrect but I’m not getting into it it’s too complex. Nothing the English do is ever benevolent, they always sneakily want a profit. This attitude starts at the top I suppose.

R138 You think the UK wants to keep Northern Ireland?

We'd have street party's if we could get rid of that headache.

Do they even want them back?

R138 to follow up on that, the republic doesn’t want NI either. This is one of the main dysfunctions of the UK, they all hate each other as evidenced by R140.

Ireland paid back every centime of their 2008 Euro bailouts.

“ they always sneakily want a profit.”

It’s a nation of shopkeepers.

R143 Not that one, they paid back the 7 Billion that we 'officially' lent to them. The bank one for 16.5 Billion was 'back door' and dumped on UK taxpayers..

As Duchess of Cornwall, I love ALL of Britain, but Northern Ireland. They can fuck off.

R145 baby

“ The paper’s banking editor Sam Coates says that the losses in Ulster Bank were not anticipated at the time of the UK bailout and describes the £10 billion as an “injection into the Republic” even though the bank’s parent company RBS is itself 81 per cent owned by the British government.”

They’re bailing themselves out that’s why it wasn’t ratified. You keep on keeping on tho.

Northern Ireland is a fucking insane asylum.

R147 RBS & Lloyds had gone bust, that was why they were in the ownership of the UK Government.

The Irish subsidiaries (also bust) should have been bailed out by The Central Bank of Ireland, but they were broke. So the UK Government stepped in and (illegally) bailed them out.

r116, can you explain your size comparison between the UK & Michigan? If you mean land mass that's one thing, but the UK population is more than 66 million people and Michigan's is around 10 million, I thought. I'm sure some of the western states are geographically larger, but capable of faring economically and in other power relations with the UK, I have no idea what you're on about.

R149 it may have stopped operating normally earlier but there was a Brit treasury interest in RBS until much later, 2016 or so? They were just covering their own messiness.

And for that matter R149 transferring funds to a subsidiary of a national non state private business could never be described as a bailout of the Irish state in the first place, since no money went to the state, and the state had no intention of taking on those losses, losses incurred in a business owned primarily by a British state owned bank itself. You’ve no idea what you’re talking about you were just tricked by a Murdoch headline lol.

R151 We didn't bail out any of the other 30+ Countries in which RBS & Lloyds were active, they were bailed out by the respective Central Banks of the Countries in which they held Banking Licenses. As should have happened in Ireland.

R153 you didn’t bail out the Irish state - it was a private company owned primarily by the British state that operated in Ireland. How can’t you understand this lol?

Would the Irish bailout of Anglo-Irish Bank count as a bailout of the UK since most of its creditors were UK / Germany? By your logic this would mean the Irish state bailed the UK out to the tune of approx e20bn. Well?

The lack of understanding demonstrated in the title of this thread makes me embarrassed to be an American. It was a mistake to take geography and world politics out of schools.

Oh dear OP.

R15, as an English person living in Scotland I know your post is utter bollocks.

R154 That's not how banking works.

Every Country has to license banks and do their own due diligence, after that the respective Country is responsible for supervision of that bank. They also give guarantees to depositors and creditors that that bank is solvent and able to meet it's commitments.

If they get that wrong then the Central Bank of the Country that issued the license is responsible, The Central Bank of Ireland were responsible for the 16.5 Billion, which they couldn't pay. The UK did pay, that is a direct subsidy to The Republic of Ireland.

R158 not if the bank was acting illegally which it was in this case as directed by its British controlling share. The Irish state was going to let Ulster bank fail, so the brits just bailed themselves out. Seriously - why do you think they didn’t get it ratified by parliament and kept it secret? Because they wanted to make a charitable anonymous donation?!?! Please 😂😂😂 also try find some evidence of this being described as a Irish state bailout by any source other than a corrupt media outlet and………crickets.

I voted Remain, but nevertheless interested to know where the “disaster” is. Brexit has proven a hassle in some ways, certainly, and I think we should have stayed in the EU as much to balance France & Germany’s dominate as anything, but no “disaster” yet. I guess we will see.

I think Brexit was a good idea because the EU is better off without UK. They’ve been a pain in the ass from day one.

R159 It isn't really the UK Governments problem how Irish registered banks were behaving before they went bankrupt, they were private companies. The Central Bank of Ireland weren't doing their job.

The UK were Government acted because The ROI defaulting isn't good for us, I never said that it was altruistic.

Don't forget that every ROI citizen retains the right to live and work in the UK even after Brexit (old treaty, they sort of have dual nationality) and a lot came between 2008-2014, it would have been even more if they'd sunk as low as Greece in the PIGS nations.

We never do things for the right reason, but sometimes it works out.

Wait... The republic of Ireland would not take NI even if NI wanted to secede from the (U)K? What's the background on that?

R163 The Protestants and The Catholics hate each other so much that they have a long high walls separating them in several towns.

Getting gradually shorter though. It's only 24 years since the peace treaty.

R162 it is their problem and that’s why they paid for it: they were clearing up their own mess because they owned that mess and they created that mess. The Irish state were not going to bail out ulster bank so the UK had to. It’s not an Irish bailout whatever way you want to paint it sorry. I think we can leave it there before going around on that again.

Don’t forget that the common travel area works both ways - ofc you can’t even consider it that way. And don’t forget all NI citizens can get an Irish passport which is such a great way for Uk citizens to access the EU for work. How many UK nationals applied for Irish citizenship lately? Too many to process.

I’ll agree with your point that the UK never does anything for the right reasons tho ;)

Germany would be justified in invading Poland at this point.

If Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland separated from England, they'd be like Luxembourg. Irrelevant. They're too small.

ROI has exactly the same problem, a population of under 5 million isn't going to make you a wealthy Country, unless you have huge natural resources (oil,gas, gold).

Google and Amazon will disappear as soon as they find a better tax dodge.

Luxembourg is actually doing really well. Their GDP per capita is the second highest in the world. (Ireland 5th, UK 37th)

I'd bet Monaco and San Marino are even higher, most ordinary people have pretty mundane poor lives in both places.

R169 Luxembourg is a tax haven full of banks. A mini-Switzerland. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are broke.

R171 Quite right, but it's even worse than that.

If they leave the UK they take their share of the £2 Trillion+ debt with them. Without the subsidy they currently get from England.

Good luck to them

[quote] it appears to be a losing move on the whole.

Dear OP, the whole premise of this thread appears to me to be a foolish one. How can you make a sensible judgement on Britain's new-found independence while in a state of pandemic?

Especially when OP thinks that England = Britain = UK, R173.

R168 omg you’re totally right, a less densely populated island country like ROI, with a temperate climate, dependable ocean and natural water resources, enormous coastline relative to population and sq km, clean air, no land borders, endless renewable energy opportunities, will flounder in the future, facing the upcoming climate emergency, because gold. Ireland has natural gas btw x

Who’s next to join the EU?

Croatia was the latest to join, right?

Ireland is on its last legs.

England isn’t an independent nation-state, you cunts. It’s a constituent country within the United Kingdom.

Might as well be asking when Ohio will be joining NATO.

This thread is rabid.

I suspect the 178 posts have been contributed by four people.

[quote]There are five recognised candidates for membership of the European Union: Turkey (applied in 1987), North Macedonia (applied in 2004), Montenegro (applied in 2008), Albania (applied in 2009) and Serbia (applied in 2009).

R176 - take your pick though they have obstacles. I think Turkey is fucked for now though because Erdogan appears to have become an authoritarian like Putin.

Turkey is not a European country.

Turkey is transcontinental so it can be both in Europe and Asia.

Yeah I think both sides have given up in Turkey’s application.

Montenegro is next. They’re the most digestible, with well under a million citizens.

Let Ireland worry about Ireland. I don’t think they want to listen to England bang on about what’s good for Ireland. The track record on that score is not good lol.

What's funny is that if Poland and Hungary were applying to join the EU right now, I bet they wouldn't get in for similar reasons as Turkey. And yet they're *in* the EU and the EU is stuck with them. The EU has shown themselves powerless to stop their slide into authoritarianism and can't even kick them out even if the EU wanted to.

Just read through it all R179 and you're right. Definite troll activity. I think my favourite is R92 fucking up using "vacation," as they pose as a British citizen, getting called out by another poster and then doubling down.

R186, if you work in an university you call them vacations.

[quote]The word vacation is also used in Britain for the holiday periods at universities and law courts. It’s sometimes shortened to vac, so students may talk about the long vac, the summer vac, etc. At American universities, such periods are usually called a recess (the summer recess, the fall recess, etc.), the word also used by the British parliament and the US Congress for their breaks.

I've never once heard the term "vacation" used by anyone linked to a university or legal system in the UK.

And I've never once heard a British student talk about a long vac or short vac, other than when discussing cleaning their rooms.

R189 Oxbridge.

[quote]I think Turkey is fucked for now though because Erdogan appears to have become an authoritarian like Putin.

R180, don't be droll!

My dear R189:

“I know you read [the Symposium] in the Vac...”

“How’d’you mean?”

“You’ll understand, then; I don’t have to explain.....”

I don’t think Italy would go for us rejoining, somehow.

This makes it seem like the UK is going to be a superpower again.

Once a country joins the EU, is it a developed country?

R195 No, lots of them aren't.

The whole basis of the Greek economic strategy used to be based on constant devaluation of the Drachma.

Same with Italy with the Lira to a large extent.

It's a way of digging a Country out of a hole.

Not open to either of them now.

The derogatory term PIGS economics was applied to the Countries that should never have become part of the Euro as far back as 1990.

Developed countries according to the IMF. If you zoom in, you’ll see many EU countries aren’t developed.

[quote] part of the Euro as far back as 1990

Lol girl the euro didn’t exist in 1990.

R199 The term PIGS did for EU Countries that had weak economy.

At least read the link.

The only reason that Britain's economy is poised to grow strongly again is the huge contraction it suffered over the past several years, as it shed lots of lucrative banking and financial services jobs after the Brexit referendum. Easy to have an impressive growth rate after a major recession.

R201, all OECD countries had major economic impact and contractions due to covid-19. So the comparisons have been made to the recoveries across those countries.

There is absolutely no data or evidence to support your claim that there has been a MAJOR RECESSION in the UK due to the impact of Brexit on banking or financial services.

Stop talking out of your ass.

If there will be a squeeze, we won’t feel it so soon after Brexit. It will come on incrementally in a few years.

R177 All those Polish who have moved there are such a welcome sight. Some Sinn Fein nut claimed there is more Polish on the island than British/ Ulster Scottish Protestants! They'd rather get along with people who have just got there than people who have lived there since 1609. On the one hand, they want to accept the Ulster Scots as Irish BUT prefer The Poles....fucking insane I tell you.