The Women on TCM NOW!

"Toujours, l'amour!" The Countess was played by Mary Boland, who also played the dithery matriarch of the Bennet family in "Pride and Prejudice" (1940). Imagine my surprise to see her last week on TCM's weekly "Noir Alley" feature, as a sleazy old broad running a fleabag hotel and cheating her partners in crime ("Guilty Bystander" 1950). A truly versatile character actor who's equally believable in every role.

Yea baby, enjoy! Did Crystal say 'I'm a home girl!' yet?

Nuts?

Nancy: "You're so clever, I ought to go to you for plots."

Sylvia: "You ought to go to someone."

I like the opening credits...where each actress/character is shown with an animal depicting their character.

OK, can someone tell me what Sylvia calls Crystal when they're in Black's? Is it "bezel" or something like that? I have never been able to find a good definition, though I understand her condescension from the context. Also, does she say "Pipe" as a way to say "There she is"?

Thanks, been driving me nuts for years.

"Get me a bromide! And put some gin in it."

Chrystal..."He almost stood me up for his wife!"

R6, Sylvia calls Crystal a beazle -- read all about it (or at least quite a lot) at the link.

I wanna see The Men!

Fabulous fashion show....and in color, too!

Mary Boland was a lesbian.

Our new one-piece lace foundation garment. Zips up the back and no bone.

Lot of "Bo-Peep" outfits...

Why me?

Maybe they're slumming!

The red and white gown with cape is pretty nice...

She thinks because Lulu's dark, he wont be able to see her!

Look, so help me, I'm gonna slug you!

"If Steven doesn't like something I wear, I take it off."

Maybe, R12 -- never married, according to Wikipedia.

Every gay boy must watch this film when he turns 13.

"There's a name for you ladies, but it isn't used in high society -- outside of a kennel ..."

Lucille Ball copied the exercise skit.

"You talk like a horse trainer..." Sylvia "You're getting warm.".....the trainer.

Joan’s character, soaking in the tub, menacing prissy Little Mary, is pretty fun to watch.

I know the audience is supposed to feel sorry for poor Little Mary, victim of a broken home, but I can't stand that little bitch.

R26 Yes, agreed. The scene where they return from riding and she photographs Norma Shearer’s character “ on the bias” is irritating, and when Shearer bends over, Little Mary pushes her forward. It actually looks dangerous. I know it was staged and choreographed, but every time I see that I think of a potential spinal cord injury.

I've thought a lot of using one line of dialogue, especially if someone asks me why I might still wear a mask sometimes.

"When one's mind is on one's own business....."

[quote]Mary Boland was a lesbian.

YAY!

Fight! Fight!

I HATE EVERYONE! I HATE EVERYONE!

Boy, that was a tantrum.

I love Mary’s peognoir, so big and fluffy.

That melodramatic ending just cracks me up.

I love The Women but abhor Norma Shearer's facial and hand expressions at the end.

La publicité. LA PUBLICITÉ!!!

I'm not crazy about Shearer's character -- she's pretty much just a foil for the real stars of the show: Crystal, Sylvia, Paulette Goddard's character, The Countess, Marjorie Maine.

And you get to lay around in bed like a swastika.

I hate Little Mary too!

Swastikas were still all the rage in 1939.

[quote] Swastikas were still all the rage in 1939.

1939 B.C.

I feel badly about it… but I’ve never liked this movie that much. It just doesn’t make me laugh. I will say it’s the one performance that cross eyed bear Norma Shearer ever gave that doesn’t make me want to vomit.

Paulette Goddard should have played Crystal. Crawford just isn’t that desirable looking in this - maybe it’s the haircut. But she seems kind of mature to be a red hot homewrecker (?)

Norma Shearer's performances are so mannered they take me right out of the film. Thank goodness the other women more than made up for it. Love this movie, esp. the color fashion show.

You ought to get new hairdresser-I DESPISE whoever does yours!

Cheap Chinese embroidery.

It’s amazing this movie was made at the same time as Hitler invading Poland, and two years before the US would enter the war. These old movies are such fascinating time capsules.

One of the things I love about this movie is that you'd never know once the Depression is going on from how opulently every single character in the movie lives.

Don't you just love to read? How do they think up those plots?

Mother, it's all right for you to talk of another generation... when women were chattels... and they did as men told them to.

But this is today! Stephen and I are equals. We took each other of our own free will, for life, because we loved each other. We've always given each other our best. I won't qualify that relationship now!

It's wrong! [italic]Shockingly[/italic] wrong! And women that stand for such things are beneath contempt. I'll never be one of them! Never!

CRYSTAL: Of course I don't mind your breaking our engagement. That is, I mind, of course, but it's such good discipline... for my selfishness about you.

PAT: Holy mackerel! What a line!

If you throw a lamb chop in a hot oven, what will keep it from getting done?

Did you get her innuendo?

Honestly, the class feeling you run into nowadays. I'm so sick of creatures who insult you.

Did anyone watch [italic]The Opposite Sex[/italic] afterward? Miss Joan Collins was one hot bitch.

R41, I thought Virgina Grey, who played Pat, the snarky salesclerk who works alongside Crystal was prettier than Crawford here. Why Stephen would go for Crystal when Pat's right there is beyond me.

Grey, like Mary Boland, never married. She supposedly hooked up with Clark Gable after Lombard died, and she was expecting a marriage proposal, but Gable up and married Lady Ashley instead, which left Grey so heartbroken that she never found another love.

[quote]Why Stephen would go for Crystal when Pat's right there is beyond me.

One word, toots: KEGELS.

Norma Shearer’s character LOVED to go camping and implied happy to take wicked shits in the wild. But only oh so charmingly and oh so delicately, and oh so, and oh so. Don't get me started on when she was trapped in the tree for hours. Yeah, pissing down the side of a branch, how romantic!

I hated her character, could you tell?

Sylvia Fowler : Mrs. Haines never listens to any of her friends...

Exercise instructress : [under her breath] How does she avoid it?

Exercise instructress : Arms flat. Crawl slowly up the wall...

Sylvia Fowler : The way you say that makes me feel like vermin.

Exercise instructress : That shouldn't be much effort. I mean, crawling up the wall.

Sylvia Fowler : [Holding up a bottle of Summer Rain perfume] A friend of ours, Mrs. Stephen Haines, simply dotes on this.

Crystal Allen : Really!

Sylvia Fowler : Her husband picked it out for her. Perhaps you sold it to him. Stephen Haines, the engineer?

Crystal Allen : Oh, I'm afraid I don't remember. You see, we have so many men come in here.

Sylvia Fowler : Awfully good-looking. Tall, fair, distinguished. I'm sure you wouldn't overlook him.

Crystal Allen : I'm sorry, but when one's mind is on one's own business...

Sylvia Fowler : Of course. And, as you say, you have so many men.

Miriam Aarons : [to Sylvia, about Sylvia's husband] I made Howard pay for what he wanted... you made him pay for what he didn't want.

And another thing, I think this bathroom is perfectly ridiculous! Good night, Crystal.

But my dears, [bold]I[/bold] am Dandy Gelatine! La publicité!

This is a case where the film script is much better than the play... thanks to the Hayes Code. Since so many of the lines from the play could not be said on film, Antita Loos had to find a way around it, with far more witty results.

r6, "pipe" is short for "pipe down, she's can hear you."

Elsa Schiaparelli's couture fashion designs, which were often influenced by Salvador Dali-esque surrealism, were satirized by genius MGM costume designer Adrian, particularly for Rosalind Russell. Those who criticize the costumes as ugly or overdone, should have a look at the source material.

Phyllis Povah (Edith) and Marjorie Main (Lucy) were both imported by MGM from the original Broadway cast. Neither role could have been better cast or played by any of the studio's contract players.

The Women was, of course, only the beginning of Main's long Hollywood career but I don't think Povah ever appeared in another big role at MGM. Experts, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Special mention to Dennie Moore who so deliciously (and viciously) plays Olga the Manicurist!

And Muriel Hutchinson and Mary Cecil who respectively play Jane the maid and Maggie the cook in their brilliant little scenes in the country kitchen.

Supposedly, George Cukor told Joan Fontaine to caress that telephone like it was Johnny's dick in her reconciliation scene in Las Vegas.

I really don't care for the film, Norma Shearer and Virginia Weidler are unwatchable and much of the dialogue is far too stagey. Joan Fontaine doesn't convey naivete in the least, it's easily her worst performance. Russell is usually adept at physical comedy but here is playing to the cheap seats.

Joan Crawford, Virginia Grey, Ruth Hussey and the women who play the maids are more naturalistic and a joy to watch.

Everything is far too broad for this to be effective satire or to give any insights into the human condition, like it seems to think it does. Frank Nugent said it was a "sociological investigation of the scalpel-tongued Park Avenue set" but it's really just some thin plot used as an excuse for women to be catty with each other and almost but not quite call each other bitches.

These days it's one of those films holier-than-thou classic film fans use to bludgeon others with, an "if you don't like it then you're not a real faaannnnn" movie.

You sound like a barrel of fun, r69.

Why is this thread grayed out?

Good old Datalounge with its typical "if you don't agree with the mainstream opinion, you're a bad person" insults.

I've seen probably 100 threads on DL about The Women over the years and ignored them because I knew I couldn't expect any actual conversation beyond "you suck." My fault for forgetting that today and daring to participate with an opinion that terrifies and confuses the native Datalounger.

Not a single "Oh, dear" for my mistake at r64 yet. We must be on Primetime or something.

R9 & R64, thank you! Even using captioning I could not quite get these. It made me feel really dense. Sometimes when you watch pre-Code movies (especially Warner Bros. movies) there would be slang that is lost to history. Sadly, they were mostly for "loose" women and gay men, but interesting nonetheless. I thought the only other time I heard "pipe" was in "Caged" (1950). Now it appears to be "Hype the new fish," so I'm thoroughly confused but slang is extremely interesting to study.

Thanks again.

R74, it helps to be old enough to have grown up around adults who used that slang. My problem is with current slang because I don't hang around people young enough to use it and the only things I watch are old movies and nature shows and news.

R74, the term "pipe" means to look at someone. "Pipe" itself is probably a slang word for a telescope, so to "pipe" someone is to notice them, perhaps from a short distance away.

R6

In 1930's "pipe" as slang did mean "quiet down", as it did through 1940's and well past post WWII years.

However in 1920's (which is when Crystal, Sylvia, Edith and rest were all young girls or teenagers) "pipe" meant to see or look.

Hence Sylvia telling Edith to "pipe" as she points towards Crystal Allen behind perfume counter.

Perfume counter scene (Black's)

Sylvia Fowler: Here we are. Creeping up on her.

Edith Potter: Do you think we ought to do this?

Sylvia Fowler (to Edith ): Shut up.

Edith Potter (nodding towards woman behind counter): That's little Crystal. None other.

Woman behind counter: May I serve you, madam?

Sylvia Fowler: No, thank you. We're just looking.

Sylvia Fowler: From the neck up, I'd say no. (about previous counter girl) How about Baby? (looking at Pat, another girl behind counter)

Edith Potter: Of course.

Edith Potter: It couldn't be anyone else.

Another counter girl hands Pat change and a receipt: Pat, here's your customer's change.

Pat. May I wait on you? (To Sylvia and Edith)

Edith Potter: I still don't know why he overlooked her. (meaning Pat)

Sylvia Fowler: I do. Pipe. (Points towards Crystal Allen behind perfume counter)

'Miriam Aarons is now being Renovated."

'Three guesses Mrs. Fowler, as to who she's going to marry.'

They just don't write nor speak like this anymore!

You're right, R72. I can see how R70's blistering takedown would offend one's sensibilities.

Joanie was right.

Norma Shearer is dreadful and got roles only because she was fucking the boss.

Joan Fontaine is in this film? I hadn't noticed.

Marjorie Main was not new to movies in 1939. She went back and forth between Hollywood and Broadway. Here she is in a notable dramatic role with Humphrey Bogart in Dead End (1937)

r81 Joanie was a far bigger whore than little Norma. Crawford fucked every male in Hollywood, except Lassie.

r82=Olivia

R78 I also heard “pipe” to meet “peep”, and envisioned a periscope-like mechanism like in a submarine, twisting on an axis to bring an object into view. I suppose my interpretation is literally “twist to see”.

In caged, I heard the same meaning “pipe the new fish”.

In my day it was “broom the new fish”.

R87 Well, you were Born Innocent….

Any mention of Mrs. Stephen Haines gay brother-in-law, William Haines?

I'm surprised that Norma Shearer allowed the fashion show of non-star models to be in color, but not footage of herself or the other stars of the movie. Shearer is fine playing a rather wimpy character who gets some spine toward the end showing up at that party, but she rather ruins it at the very end by her last scene with arms raised out, running off after her husband. Maybe that might have worked in a musical or opera, but not here.

Marjorie Main's first film role was in 1937 film "Dead End". See 34:32 where she first appears in what was a small role.

If anyone has the time "Dead End" is worth watching.

For one thing many scenes were shot on an East Side of Manhattan, NYC that no longer exists. The area along East River (in this case just below Queens Borough Bridge) is now Sutton Place and Beekman Place, and UES begins just north of 59th street. More importantly post WWII east side was cut off from river's edge for most part when FDR Drive was built.

This area was used in "Sorry Wrong Number", and "My Man Godfrey" among other films of 1930's and 1940's.

[quote]Any mention of Mrs. Stephen Haines gay brother-in-law, William Haines?

Billy Haines is persona non grata to Mrs. Stephen Haines, ever since he befriended that homewrecker, Crystal Allen, and decorated her suite.

Believe it or not, Norma Shearer did not write Mary Haines' dialogue.

No, but why did George Cukor approve the final cut which has her running after Stephen with her arms outstretched and calling after him in such a monstrously subservient manner?

r93 Mary will make Stephen pay for his straying by feeding him Ingrid's Pancakes Barbara so he'll lose his Adonis figure.

[quote]why did George Cukor approve the final cut which has her running after Stephen with her arms outstretched and calling after him in such a monstrously subservient manner?

Uh, because that is the fucking point of the film/play?: a woman has no value without a man. As a critic said about the recent-ish NYC revival, it was played as Sex and the City when it should have been played as a concentration camp drama. Having a man is a life-or-death situation for these women.

George Cukor didn't just "approve" of the final image of Norma Shearer, he created it and staged it.