Keeping the Broadway cast vs bringing on movie stars. When the Broadway cast WAS a mistake

Tab Hunter what is this shit? Interest in Gwen Verdon didn’t, doesn’t need to be revived ok? Marilyn couldn’t have performed she was high? I don’t care about her either! Oldies

The Hollywood version of "Follies." Oh, wait.

What is "Broadway"?

Marilyn was under contract to Fox, and Zanuck would not have agreed to a loan.

MacLaine could've then

Yes, it would most likely have been MacLaine, as it was in the film version of Can-Can.

[quote]Marilyn was under contract to Fox, and Zanuck would not have agreed to a loan.

Monroe made The Prince and the Showgirl, Some Like it Hot and The Misfits for other studios. Only Lets Make Love and the uncompleted Something's Got to Give were Fox.

The Rent movie owns this thread.

Monroe was the original choice for DAMN YANKEES. It was narrowed down to her or Gaynor

If the trailer is any indication, Platt and his Fro wig are a mistake for the Dear Evan Hansen movie

I'd argue that Verdon's "Whatever Lola Wants" works as comedy. The idea of the Devil sending this leering broad dressed as a chorus girl after this squeaky clean Middle American dad.

She's supposed to be attractive. She's not. No straight man would find that sexy. Fail.

I agree that it should've been Marilyn. But the film is also badly directed, so there's that, too.

Exactly R13 which is a shame because even the most ferocious critics had to admit that Tab was delightful

Yes, R14, Tab was a dee-lite!

Are you sure, OP?

OP is like the 1st person ever who thinks Gwen Verdon is the problem with Damn Yankees. It’s the boring book, stupid.

Forget Damn Yankees. Les Miz had the worst film cast ever. They gave us Samantha Barks, and that was it. The film was a massive disappointment.

AnnE's big number was robbed of any vocal grandeur, though she acted the fuck out of it.

Who's Gwen Verde?

The problem isn’t that Gwen isn’t pretty - it’s that she isn’t pretty COMPARED TO TAB.

Lol @R19 TheNiceOne...true

Tab would recall how crummy the Damn Yankees cast was to him--cliquish and snobby.

George Abbott--so absurdly beloved in New York--gave Tab no help at all. He was either rude to him or just acted as if Tab weren't there.

Warner Bros. must have rushed D Y through production, for Gwen needed a good cinematographer of the kind MGM always gave their women stars. G V could have looked a lot better with help--and her part in particular should have been "screened" down from what she did on stage.

On the other hand, the movie is a docu of one of the musical's greatest stars. It's fun to watch the schmaltzy, non-acting acting of the support people--again, as a record of how musicals were staged back then. And at least we can get some idea of what Verdon was like in her shows.

[quote]Tab would recall how crummy the Damn Yankees cast was to him--cliquish and snobby.

Why did they snub him?

R22 these Broadway pretentious cunts ALWAYS do that. they feel they shit higher than anyone else. They did the same to Natalie Wood on the set of WSS, laughing at her singing and dancing to her face etc...see MICHELE, LEA

[quote] They did the same to Natalie Wood on the set of WSS, laughing at her singing and dancing to her face etc

And Rita Moreno continues to be a cunt about Natalie to this day. Bitch.

AAARRRRFFFFF R24 she NEVER has anything good to say about Natalie. FOR 50 FUCKING YEARS, she's been going on and on and on with the accent and everything "she was not a STAR?well, she had done splendor in the grass but she was not a LUMINARY" (like nobody ever heard of rebel without a cause and so on...what a CUNT

R9, Mizi as Lola is a really interesting idea. She would have been adorable, could have pulled off the choreography.

I love Gwen, but do agree with others that she really wasn't a film "star."

Cyd Charisse would have made a good Lola. Older but still beautiful and intimidating. And she was over at MGM pretty much as everyone else was except for Debbie Reynolds. Fosse's strip tease for Lola does get too vulgar when she's on the floor stripping which is just awkward. Abbott fired Hunter. He could be pretty stupid not realizing that Hunter was the reason the film was financed. What a dimwit. Warner read him the riot act.

Shirley really only hit it big with Some Came Running which is one of her best performances. Pajama Game could have used a co-star Day didn't wipe off the screen and MacLaine should have done Haney's role. Carol as great a dancer as she was does not light up the screen.

Wasn't Natalie Wood a child star? MIRACLE ON 34th STREET (released when she was 8 and made her better-known) was a huge hit at the box office. She received her first Oscar nomination at age 17 for REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE, which was also a huge hit and became a pop cultural phenomenon. The following year, she was in the classic Western THE SEARCHERS, which was also a huge hit. In 1961, she had banner year with WEST SIDE STORY and SPLENDOR IN THE GRASS, receiving her second Oscar nod for the latter. Furthermore, Natalie's name was billed first and featured more prominently than the others. I don't know what Rita Moreno is going on about Natalie not having been a star at the time of WSS.

R28 I know, but according to miss Moreno, she was a nobody with no box office pull, and therefore she thought the movie will flop. And if it didn't, it thanks to her genious acting/dancing/lipsynching.I HATE that woman.

Cyd Chariise is a PERFECT idea. Imagine Cyd Charisse, and Cary Grant as the devil, like Warner wanted. THAT would be a classic

Gwen Verdon was obvious choice for film "Damn Yankees" not just because she was a hit a "Lola" in stage version, but also she was a "Fosse" dancer by then right to her fingertips.

Marilyn Monroe might have looked better on screen, but don't think she could have pulled off Fosse's moves.

"Reviews from critics were generally positive. Bosley Crowther of The New York Times wrote that Verdon's performance was "one of the hottest and heartiest we've seen years ... Miss Verdon has the sort of fine, fresh talent that the screen badly needs these days. But lest she seem to be the whole show, let us hasten to proclaim that there's a great deal more to 'Damn Yankees' than this wonderful red-headed dame. Like the George Abbott stage show before it, it has class, imagination, verve and a good many of the same performers who did so charmingly by it on Broadway."[4]"

When they put Shirley MacLaine in Sweet Charity instead of Gwen, critics roasted 'em. So naturally they kept Gwen for Damn Yankees...and still were criticized.

I love that song OP! As for musicals “ The Sound of Music “ wins by a landslide. Andrews and Plummer are far better that Mary Martin and Theodore Bikel. They are age appropriate and far more attractive. Also Julie Andrews’ has a far better voice than Martin. And Eleanor Parker’s character was limited - she barely mentions she is pro-Nazi.

She was not right for the part, on screen. She's supposed to be irresistible. Especially with an Adonis like Tab, the part needed a knock out gorgeous actress. Marilyn could be terrific, and they could have adapted the moves. People see this movie for Tab not for the homely woman who plays Lola , nooone cares she was a bob fosse dancer

Comment from Broadway World message board:

"Lola is a seductress. With Verdon, though, you always like her. Even when she is trying to seduce our hero we chuckle because the Verdon had that X-factor that you just fell in love with her at first sight. She had an angelic innocence about her that was not even lost when she played devil's advocate (literally) Lola.

Monroe would have been a complete sexpot/kewpie doll. While very appealing, and probably more overtly sexual than Verdon's Lola. But that quality of humor in Lola would have been lost. Numbers like "Who's Got the Pain" and "Two Lost Souls" wouldn't have registered as well.

Coincidentally enough, Gwen Verdon is the person who TAUGHT Miss Monroe to dance for the film Gentlemen Prefer Blondes."

MM up on big screen in that bustier/corset/leotard would have looked fantastic. As Lola MM wouldn't have to work hard at seducing anyone, including Joe. That would simply change whole dynamics of "Whatever Lola Wants".

OP Tab Hunter was a talentless cunt, who stunk in every film he made. You stupid deluded fucking idiot.

Gwen Verdon in Can-Can on stage

Shirley MacLaine in film version IMHO was better suited to role.

Well, oldie but oldie Ben Platt will come to epitomize this thread.

R37 = Troy Donahue

whatever lola wants with verdon is embarrassing

R42

Perhaps, but with La Monroe as Lola you'd end up with something like "After You Get What You Want, You Don't Want It..."

MM was just too jiggly for anything like Whatever Lola Wants..... Also again highly doubt she could pull off Fosse's choreography.

I hate Fosse. it's horribly vulgar

Anybody have Saul Chaplin's autobio? It's been a long time since I read it and unfortunately in a fit of cleaning I foolishly threw it out but he was the co-producer of the film of Can Can and his daughter was one of the dancers. I think she was the one who married Hal Prince. Anyway from what I can remember she went to her father to complain about the can can dresses which were impossibly heavy and very difficult to dance in. These were designed by Sharaff. I guess the dancers were like complain to your father he's the boss! She even brought her dress to her father and he was like wow these ARE heavy. So he went to Irene to see about it and she was very dismissive saying something like 'Dancers are children who like to complain.' I don't believe the dresses were modified.

Tab was cute and could be funny, but a lustier, more macho actor would have been more believable as a lug tempted by a vixen. Tab looks like her bff.

that's because ou KNOW he was gay. Tab was as butch as they could come. This is typical homophobic Tab bashing

R47 He was a lump of wood in every role, he just sits there.

I think Tab is very good in Gunman's Walk opposite Van Heflin.

[quote] Tab is very good in Gunman's Walk opposite Van Heflin

He is indeed, it's a very strong performance and completely different from his "all american boy" usual typecasting. he's wonderful in THAT KIND OF WOMAN, and many others. The problem in the "whatever lola wants "is not him. It's her. She's not attractive at all, she's vulgar and it's not funny.

Say what you will about Tab, I preferred Patio Cola instead.

Tab Hunter was pretty. That’s all. Let’s not have any pretensions toward talent or charisma here. He had none.

He was actually better than Dean or Newman, but whatever R52. you resent his beauty that's all

If there's one thing Tab had was charisma and charm. Pretty boys don't necessarily have it on screen though they might have it on the street.

Thank you R54, you're a dear

Actually, for all George Abbott's scoffing, Tab's scene in Damn Yankees where he auditions for the team and blows everyone away with his batting power is very well played, with a mixture of exuberance, humility, and excitement at his new (magically-derived) prowess.

Hunter really captures the feeling that an old man has been granted the ability to make his lifelong wish come true. And he looks great, a little more filled out than in his Battle Cry days. .

R56 thank you, you're a good person

There wasn't anyone "like Marilyn Monroe". There was only Marilyn Monroe.

R33 Except the film version of Sweet Charity came 10 years after Damn Yankees.

R6 and Charity!

Of actresses names mentioned in this thread for "Lola" in film version of Damn Yankees none were really that much older than each other. Well maybe Cyd Charisse, but only by about four years. And at time they were casting Damn Yankees Ms. Charisse certainly didn't look "old" compared to MM or GV

Gwen Verdon - Born January 13, 1925

Marilyn Monroe - Born June 1, 1926

Cyd Charisse - Born March 8, 1921

Where CC and GV had it over MM was that the two first named ladies were dancers who knew how to move, and had lithe dancer's bodies. Again MM while not fat, was just too jiggly. I mean can anyone actually seem MM crawling on all fours and some other movements in "Whatever Lola Wants".

In the end am willing to bet Gwen Verdon was cast in film version of Damn Yankees because she "got" Bob Fosse. From first time the two clapped eyes on each other they also understood each other. Gwen Verdon became part of that small group known as Fosse dancers. Not everyone can pull off Bob Fosse's choreography which while often exact (right down to position of a finger or hand movement) still relies upon dancer him or her self to flush out rest.

Shirley MacLaine didn't play the Gwen Verdon role in the much altered Can-Can movie. She played the lead role created by French actress Lilo. Gwen's role was basically cut and what remained was played by Juliet Prowse. Can-Can is remembered as a Verdon show because she got the acclaim, as well as a Featured Actress Tony, and Lilo was pretty much ignored.

Whaddabout the film version of 49 Carats (1973)? I just watched it in Tubi. Pretty scenes of Greece and Edward Albert.

Original Broadway cast of Can-Can must have had something, because the thing ran for almost two years despite a very weak book and musical score.

Broadway revival in 1981 closed after only five shows and sixteen previews. Was still young then but recall reading NYT review that headlined "Can-Can, Can't.." There was much hype over that revival including how the open casting call only wanted dancers who could do perfect drop splits.

Quite honestly best bit of Can-Can comes towards end with that famous dance number.

I saw a bootleg of the 1988 tour of Can-Can with Chita Rivera and the Rockettes (accidentally typed ironically as Ricketts) and the book is indeed very poor, surprising that James Burrows (whom I believe wrote the book for Guys and Dolls) wrote it originally. I'm not sure if a lot was changed. The Encores production with Patti LuPone indicates that the show does well as a concert with semi-staging. The Pasadena Playhouse production sold out and the new book was acclaimed, but it didn't have the star quality for a transfer. I believe that Goodspeed did that production as well. There was a St. Louis outdoor production with Judy Kaye and a young Beth Leavel that got great reviews in 1983, but regional critics tend to be a lot kinder. Cole Porter had his first hit in years with Kiss Me Kate, but his last three shows (which includes Out of This World, one of my favorite flop scores) and Silk Stockings which for obvious reasons would never work today outside a concert version.

Cole Porter's original lyrics for "Can-Can" musical number would be cancelled right out today.

"There is no trick to a can-can,

It is so simple to do,

When you once kick to a can-can,

'Twill be so easy for you.

If a lady in Iran can,

If a shady African can,

If a Jap with a slap of her fan can,

Baby, you can can-can too.

If an English Dapper Dan can,

If an Irish Callahan can,

If an Afghan in Afghanistan can (Or: If in Cannes ev'ry tan courtesan can)

Baby, you can can-can too.

Can-Can "Come Along With Me" sung by Shirley MacLaine.

In film you've got lovely costumes, Louis Jourdan and even Frank Sinatra to stare at and take mind off just how plodding the book and score really are.

OBC clips...

I'll do it, but probably will hate myself in the morning...

Patti LuPone doing "I Love Paris"...

For those whom have never seen a "Kan-Kan" dance the show/film gets things down about right. Except what most consider French "Can-Can" was actually an imported variation (from UK that was danced in music halls), for benefit of tourists to Paris and other parts of France.

The dance was so scandalous because in 1800's females had only two choices for undergarments, pantalettes or drawers. Either way the garment had a split in middle (so females could relieve themselves), so all those high kicks, splits, and lifting of skirts gave men (and anyone else looking) quite an eye full

Out of This World changed its lyrics for "Nobody's Chasing Me" from "The cock is chasing the chicken" to "The Rooster's Chasing the Chicken" when redone for Encores. They still kept in "Pandora opened her box" for another song.

People are always going on about why "X" musical hasn't been revived or otherwise done in years. Truth is many of them had weak books, scores and other issues that just cannot be fixed.

Love myself some "Meadowlark", but am not holding my breath for anyone to revive "The Baker's Wife" on Broadway anytime soon.

Oh and Patti's rendition of Meadowlark is one of my favorites.

Who did George Abbott want to play Joe in the film of Damn Yankees? Certainly not Stephen Douglass who was handsome enough for Broadway but not Hollywood handsome.

Were other young male stars considered besides Tab?

Also, MM would have been perfect for Lola. She proved in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes and How to Marry a Millionaire that she could play conniving seductresses and still be entirely sympathetic and adorable. Check her out singing Heat Wave in There's No Business Like Show Business if you want to get an idea of how she'd sing and dance Whatever Lola Wants.... The Fosse choreography could have been easily adapted for her.

Ohhh! Stephen Douglass......

[quote]Whaddabout the film version of 49 Carats (1973)? I just watched it in Tubi. Pretty scenes of Greece and Edward Albert.

I think it was called 40 Carats.

Aren't you all taking Damn Tankees too literally? The show is satire. True, Gwen Verdon was a little thin and not especially a beauty or a temptress type, but then Ray Walston was not exactly the incarnation of evil. People seem very literal nowadays. Gwen and Ray were doing burlesques. There's only a bit of seriousness in the show, a bit of pathos to counter the comedic premise. I thought they were both pretty great and so was Rae Allen. It was great to see the Broadway cast. Tab Hunter was good, as well, but maybe the fact that he was a film star throws the tone off a little.

Yes, 40 Carats. Please discuss.

Marilyn would only do musical numbers with Jack Cole. She was taught them by Gwen Verdon when Gwen was Cole's assistant.

OP, the question is, when did a film adaptation of a musical use the original cast (or part of it) instead of recast and it ended up being a mistake?

This honestly feels like a pretty small category, and not enough to really carry a thread, which is why I suppose it has devolved into a conversation about one particular film.

Like R8 said, RENT owns this. They were all too old for the parts they were playing. It just felt silly and off.

Jack Warner bought the film rights to 'Damn Yankees' specifically for Tab Hunter.

George Abbott wanted a pickled, preserved documentation of his book and show, and from the first table read, gave Tab specific line readings as done onstage by Douglass. Hunter disputed that, and got fired. Warner made a fuss and got him back.

The cast was snotty to Hunter until Verdon nicknamed him, in her NY accent, "Tabuntah!"

This is all in his memoir. It's been WIDELY reported.

Monroe and Tab would have been GREAT

Jane Fonda took two of Elizabeth Ashely's defining Broadway roles to the big screen. And Sandra Dee got Ashley's breakout performance in Take Her She's Mine.

I can't imagine what seeing Ashley opposite Redford in Barefoot in the Park would have been like, but I hear Geraldine Page and her were phenomenal in Agnes. I like the movie with Fonda and Bancroft, but people who've seen the Broadway show said it's not even a competition that the Broadway show was better.

But Fonda and (especially) Sandra Dee seems like really bizarre choices in replacing someone as bohemian and quirky as Ashley.

Fonda is such a CUNT

R81 Yes everything about Tab Hunter is common knowledge. (<--sarcasm)

R85: "I don't know fuck-all about anything in this thread, but that won't stop me from spouting off."

R85 Tab was the most popular star of WB in the 50's and a best seller in the 2000, fuck off

R86 I majored in film studies, hbu? I just don't think anything about Tab Hunter can be considered so widely reported that R81 has to act like everyone should know it, and not everyone has read Tab Hunter's memoir. Hard as that is to believe. It was a nice post until the last sentence.

R85, R88:

"It's been WIDELY reported" is an old DataLounge joke. Chill out, Mr. "I paid tuition to watch movies."

Marilyn couldn't have done the dancing Gwen Verdon did in Damn Yankees. Marilyn wasn't much of a dancer and certainly not as studied in the Fosse style as Gwen.

But if she were the star, they would have accommodated her and suited the dancing to her style. No one is saying that she would have done the dancing Gwen did in the movie.

[quote] When they put Shirley MacLaine in Sweet Charity instead of Gwen, critics roasted 'em. So naturally they kept Gwen for Damn Yankees...and still were criticized.

R33, what are you talking about? Damn Yankees was filmed in 1958, 9 years before Sweet Charity.

The Broadway show Damn Yankees was written with Monroe in mind. She strung the producers along, saying, saying she wanted to do it, but she never signed a contract, despite the producers' meeting her every request and demand. Pre-production was over and it was time to start rehearsals and Marilyn still dithered. The producers gave up on her and held auditions. The three finalists were Mitzi Gaynor (pre-South Pacific and not yet a big star), French ballerina Zizi Jeanmaire and Gwen Verdon.

Composer Richard Adler later said that not getting Monroe was the best thing that happened to the show. But yeah, she probably would have worked better in the film than Gwen did, bless her unphotogenic heart. The thing is, the part was written as a traditional sex kitten but Verdon played a brilliant parody of that that brought down the house nightly. For whatever reasons, it didn't work onscreen.

R93 because film tends to be more literal.

" Director George Abbott wanted Don Murry instead of Tab Hunter. In a memo sent to Jack Warner, Abbott said Tab Hunter was “too gay” to be believable as the All-American baseball hero, but Warner backed Hunter and wanted him in the role, according to Hunter’s autobiography."

The thing with both Damn Yankees and The Pajama Game was that producer/director George Abbott owned the rights to both shows and would only sell the rights on the condition that he be involved and that most of the Broadway casts would be used. But even he realized that at least one lead would have to be a bona fide movie star or the financing wouldn't make sense. Thus Doris Day replaced Janis Paige in The Pajama Game and Tab Hunter ended up in Damn Yankees.

The Music Man was another Warner's musical that used most of the original Broadway cast but replaced Barbara Cook with Shirley Jones for Jones's box office value. Jones was great for the part so it all worked out fine but:

1) Warner offered Harold Hill to Frank Sinatra, Cary Grant and a few other stars and only gave the part to Robert Preston when his first choices turned him down; and

2) Barbara Cook screen tested several times for Marian but lost the role mainly due to Jones's guaranteed BO value.

Gene Kelly was also offered Harold Hill on Broadway and the film but turned it down both times.

Everybody they wanted turned down Harold Hill on Broadway. Kelly, Danny Kaye, Dan Daily, Donald O;Connor, Jackie Gleason and others. Preston got the part because he gave the best auditions of the also rans.

I read, years and years ago, an interview with Robert Preston who said he got The Music Man because he was willing to audition over and over again and that he was one of a few who could get through Trouble without tripping up on the lyrics because he approached it as an acting scene instead of a tongue twister song. Meredith Willson and Morton Da Costa had been looking for a traditional song and dance man and Preston had never sung or danced in his career.

It's interesting that the score of Damn Yankees is not centered on the baseball player. the song that become the show's hit was Heart and that was sung by featured players.

In both the film and stage versions, Heart is sung early on by the players' coach and then by the players. Much later it is reprised by Joe's fan club. Both onstage and in the film, the fan club's president, who leads the reprise, was Jean Stapleton. Yes, Edith Bunker. She was an accomplished and well known Broadway character actress long before All In the Family.

And Kristy McNichol sang Heart in Only When I Laugh to show that girls can be baseball players too.

Didn't Jean Stapleton portray Fanny's mother in the original production of Funny Girl onstage?

No, that was Kay Medford. But Stapleton played one of her card playing buddies. Stapleton had supporting roles in a lot of Broadway hits.

And getting back to keeping the original Broadway cast, Kay Medford played Fanny's mother in the film version too.

[quote]I saw a bootleg of the 1988 tour of Can-Can with Chita Rivera and the Rockettes (accidentally typed ironically as Ricketts) and the book is indeed very poor, surprising that James Burrows (whom I believe wrote the book for Guys and Dolls) wrote it originally. I'm not sure if a lot was changed.

Abe Burrows, not James Burrows, wrote the books for "Guys and Dolls" and "Can-Can."

Stapleton recreated two of her Broadway roles in the film versions: Damn Yankees, as mentioned, and Bell Are Ringing with original Broadway star Judy Holliday.

[quote]and her big number "what lola wants" comes across as cheesy, cringey, in your face and horribly vulgar.

Obviously this was the star they needed to put across that number.

[quote]Didn't Jean Stapleton portray Fanny's mother in the original production of Funny Girl onstage?

Jean Stapleton played Mrs. Strakosh ("If a Girl Isn't Pretty") in the Broadway production of "Funny Girl." In the movie, Mrs. Strakosh was played by Mae Questel, the voice of Betty Boop and Olive Oyl.

There were two big Broadway musicals that were somewhat infamous for having all the A List talent the producers wanted turning them down flat, causing the producers to have to start trawling through the B List but coming up with gold: Preston in The Music Man and Lansbury in Mame.

I think "The Ritz" (1976) film kept most of its Broadway cast.

Actually this thread has got me thinking why is Tab Hunter pretty unknown about. You think he would be embraced as a gay icon, buy whenever I see list about “20 gay pioneers you know know” or something they never include Tab.

R112 Well, Tab was a deplorable until he died so he didn't give a shit about other gay people, why should we give a shit about him

R90 There's a misunderstanding here. You don't seem to understand.We don't want Marilyn to have done the same number and choreography as Verdon, because it was vulgar, unappealing and gross. Verdon was a comlpete turn off. It's precisely why we would have preferred MM. Verdon kills the movie. She's homely, unfunny and vulgar, no straight guy would be turned on by that gross, desperate, unfunny number. Only a queen who's never seen any appeal in a female can like that number

Vernon on stage works. Vernon blown up 20 feet high on a screen doesn't.

Gwen grew into her own on screen. I completely bought the old guys having the hots for her in "Cocoon"

Wasn't Damn Yankees known in some markets probably outside the US as Whatever Lola Wants?

r117: it was in the UK, where "Damn" was prohibited.

Interesting because at that point British films were less oppressed by the production code than American films were. But I guess they didn't want 'Damn' in advertisements and on theater marquees where children could see it yet in the puritanical US it was OK.

Unless this is an urban myth Damned was originally in the title of Hello dolly but was taken out because the theater party ladies would not like it.

[quote]She's supposed to be attractive. She's not. No straight man would find that sexy. Fail.

Gwen's body was in phenomenal shape in the DAMN YANKEES movie, so she's sexy in that way, but she was at least 10 years too old for the role, and her face was always more cute than pretty. Plus she looks almost grotesque in some scenes of the movie because she keeps making broad faces as if she were still playing the role on stage.

[quote]When they put Shirley MacLaine in Sweet Charity instead of Gwen, critics roasted 'em. So naturally they kept Gwen for Damn Yankees...and still were criticized.

Yes but, of course, the movie of DAMN YANKEES came about 10 years before the movie of SWEET CHARITY. And by the way, Gwen was SO old by the time of the CHARITY movie that she would never conceivably have been cast to recreate her role in it.

Cyd Charisse would have been great for Lola in every way EXCEPT that she had no warmth whatsoever, and that quality is vital to the character for the last half of the show/movie.

And regardless of whatever information is available on the web or anywhere else, I refuse to believe that Gwen Verdon was only one year older than Marilyn Monroe. Many people feel that Gwen lied about her age throughout her life. And even if it IS true that she was the age she stated (which I doubt), the point is that she LOOKED much older by the time the movie of DAMN YANKEES was made, maybe partly due to heavy smoking and/or drinking.

Every actress of a certain age wanted 40 Carats. Audrey Hepburn or Doris Day would have made it work. Liv was a great big NO but the supporting cast especially Binnie Barnes is excellent and make the movie watchable.

[quote]There were two big Broadway musicals that were somewhat infamous for having all the A List talent the producers wanted turning them down flat, causing the producers to have to start trawling through the B List but coming up with gold: Preston in The Music Man and Lansbury in Mame.

Good point! Does anyone know WHY so many stars turned down the role of Harold Hill in THE MUSIC MAN on stage? Was it because they found the character so unsympathetic, and were afraid of playing it for that reason?

R31 Is this song why certain full-of-themselves celebrities (Madonna, Julian Schnabel, Kelly Ripa) name their daughters Lola? The "whatever she wants, she gets" part appeals to them?

Run Lola Run

[quote]I don’t care about her either! Oldies

Boy, are you ever on the wrong forum.

There have been lots of stars of musical comedy who just don't work on the screen. Their features are too big, usually, to look attractive in close-uop, and their style of performing is too broad and exaggerated.

Gwen Verdon is among them.

Others include: Carol Channing; Ethel Merman; Mary Martin; Zero Mostel; Patti LuPone; Kristin Chenoweth; Idina Menzel; Raul Esparza

Not only did Cary Grant turn down playing Harold Hill, he told Jack Warner he wouldn’t even see the movie unless Warner hired Robert Preston.

[quote]Not only did Cary Grant turn down playing Harold Hill, he told Jack Warner he wouldn’t even see the movie unless Warner hired Robert Preston.

I usually hear that story with Cary Grant telling Jack Warner that he wouldn't play Henry Higgins in the movie of "My Fair Lady" and that if Warner didn't cast Rex Harrison, Grant wouldn't even go see the movie.

To the poster who said The Music Man film employed most of the original Broadway cast: who besides Preston??

Well, there's Pert Kelton, I guess.

Is everyone posting on this thread already dead? What a boring and pointless discussion.

R130 thanks for that fascinating and hilarious contribution

yeah...Cary...constantly in my office, threatening me to not see movies...my kids called him uncle bossy bottom

Lainie Kazan, that Jew broad, coulda played it. Whatever it was.

I've never heard of Tab Hunter in my life. Does he make Page Six? I doubt it.

Bitch please

[quote]To the poster who said The Music Man film employed most of the original Broadway cast: who besides Preston?? Well, there's Pert Kelton, I guess.

Plus the Buffalo Bills. Otherwise, I can't think of any others.

Pert Kelton?

I don't know her.

R136 = Audrey Meadows.

R136 = Marjorie Main

R138 As character actress Fran Ryan once said when asked if she had played Ma Kettle, "Yes, and I died 25 years ago."

Back to TikTok, R130, you pointless nothing.

[quote] Is everyone posting on this thread already dead? What a boring and pointless discussion.

Just your heart is, dear.

Exactly right, R126. Raul Esparza's huge nose and bags under his eyes didn't work well on TV, neither did his scenery chewing. He's a good stage actor though, (not singer, can't stand his singing voice), but his looks and and acting style don't work well on TV.

It happened to Kathy Bates twice, with roles she originated on Broadway. First, with "'Night, Mother" (Sissy Spacek), and then with "Frankie and Johnny in the Clair de Lune" (Michelle Pfeiffer). I'd love to design both shows. Particularly the latter. It's ACTUALLY about middle aged people, and I love the fact that they're very ordinary people.

No one can seriously think Tab Hunter wasn't a beautiful man, regardless of his talent.

[quote] No one can seriously think Tab Hunter wasn't a beautiful man

I don't think anyone as been stupid enough to say such a thing, even on DL?

[quuote][R31] Is this song why certain full-of-themselves celebrities (Madonna, Julian Schnabel, Kelly Ripa) name their daughters Lola? The "whatever she wants, she gets" part appeals to them?

Madonna named her daughter 'Lourdes' after the, small, French market town where St. Bernadette saw the visions of the Virgin Mary.

[quote][R31]] Is this song why certain full-of-themselves celebrities (Madonna, Julian Schnabel, Kelly Ripa) name their daughters Lola? The "whatever she wants, she gets" part appeals to them?

Madonna named her daughter 'Lourdes' after the, small, French market town where St. Bernadette saw the visions of the Virgin Mary.

[quote][R31]] Is this song why certain full-of-themselves celebrities (Madonna, Julian Schnabel, Kelly Ripa) name their daughters Lola? The "whatever she wants, she gets" part appeals to them?

Madonna named her daughter 'Lourdes' after the, small, French market town where St. Bernadette saw the visions of the Virgin Mary.

Jesus! Why doesn't this site allow edit?

R149 Imploring Jesus on this site won’t help you and Muriel will just smite you if you ask her.

No madonna called her daughter "lourdes " after Maria de lourdes villiers farrow, for whom she has a secret fascination so strong that she even had armchairs with Mia 's photograph

Madonna and Satchel (Madonna's armchairs story is true, Mia even posted them on her insta)

I think Cheno and Esparza worked perfectly well in Pushing Daisies.

I clearly remember Madonna citing Bernadette Soubirous and Lourdes, France, as her inspiration for naming her daughter. I was a huge Madonna fan at the time. Granted, I haven't really followed her career post-2000, but the Mia Farrow story sounds like history revisionism to me, if true.

R154 = Woody Allen

I also like Cheno on screen and Esparza was as good a Che in Evita as Mandy More Patinkin. Raul's voice is better to be honest. No so much hammy vibrato and more power resonance and projection. He does overdo it when he's "being" himself. Raul needs a BIG role.

Cheno can do it all really. Very good singer and actress & comic actress. Her features are not big. Truth is that she hasn't played to her strengths. She wanted to be a film and recording star. Shoulda Stuck With Broadway and concerts when she still had The Voice.

Fosse choreography can be sublime on stage, but on film it mostly ticks over into goony “spirit fingers” and unsexy crotch thrusting.

R157 exactly what I feel too. It's completely off putting and as tacky and dated as an Alston pantsuit

Doesn’t she call Lourdes Lola?

I liked David Essex as Che.

Very true R157. Except when he directs it himself. Cabaret keeps the crudeness but just flashes over the vulgarity. That film is wonderfully edited. Otherwise - Diana Ross would have her well deserved Oscar!

All this Lola talk, are we sure it wasn’t influenced by Copacobana?

This looks like a film still, but it's Marilyn at a film premiere. Someone has been pointed out to her? Don't tell me MM couldn't perform - Whatever Lola Wants, Lola Gets. It's a pretty bad number to be honest. But she would have understood it. Well.

Agreed, R161. Cabaret works so well, in part, I think, because he’s explicitly choreographing characters who are “white people in the mid-twentieth century trying to dance crudely”, which is what Fosse is. Now that basically all our popular “social” dancing is influenced by Black music and dance culture, and with the distance of the camera, Fosse’s isolated hip shimming and attitude-striking is about as sexy and as dangerous as your uncle telling dirty jokes.

For the record, Madonna and #Lola earlier this year. Lola looks like she’s auditioning for the part of Pussycat in once upon a Time in Hollywood.

R165 can't tell who's the mother and who's the daughter. they seem sisters

Raul hasn't been getting much work lately. I know Broadway has taken a hit over the last year and a half, but how employable is he these days? He's past his prime, especially for musical theater, but should still be able to get some good straight-play roles.

R157, he wasn't bad in Evita but his Bobby in Company was just....overwrought and bordering on cringe as the kids say.

Raul IS Tevye!

Oh, no, R168. No, no, no, no. With that bleating vibrato of his he'd be better as one of the goats.

Pert Kelton replaced Eileen Heckart in The Bad Seed.

is Eileen Ehckart related to Aaron Eckhart ?

Yes R171. She's his daughter. And his sister.

I could just slap you, r172.

Are we casting CHINATOWN THE MUSICAL now ?

I want Aaron Eckhart in the nicholson role. but can he sing ?

[quote]Cabaret works so well, in part, I think, because he’s explicitly choreographing characters who are “white people in the mid-twentieth century trying to dance crudely”, which is what Fosse is. Now that basically all our popular “social” dancing is influenced by Black music and dance culture, and with the distance of the camera, Fosse’s isolated hip shimming and attitude-striking is about as sexy and as dangerous as your uncle telling dirty jokes.

Oh, shut up, you race-baiting troll.

The Rich Man's Frug is one of the best dance numbers ever put on film and Suzanne Charny's performance in it is beyond praise.

I Would Trust Her and Steam Heat also come off wonderfully transferred from stage to screen with their original casts. Or close to in the case of Steam Heat.

[quote]Pert Kelton replaced Eileen Heckart in The Bad Seed.

Did they add a few dance steps for her?

R112 R113 Apart from you too people's priceless opinion, Tab is a major gay icon the world over, also, many gays I know don't embrace him because "he would have told me to get lost". Sad but true. Nathan Lane is a safer option.

Yes, r178. They added an Apache dance for her and Rhoda.

[quote]many gays I know don't embrace him because "he would have told me to get lost".

R179 what do they mean by that? Was Tab a snob?

Tab could afford to have had very high standards and let's face it overwhelmingly most gays would not have made the cut.

[quote] Was Tab a snob

Poor dear adorable Tab was anythin BUT. These gays mean they didn't stand a chance and would have been rejected, because " I'm uglyyyyyy booooooooooo"

you're GAY you dumbass, just kneel in front of the first glory hole and do what you do best

R120

You'd drink heavily and smoke if had slice of life Gwen Verdon did growing up. This included sexual abuse by close friend of family which resulted in her first pregnancy while still a teen. Best her mother and family could come up with was to push GV into marrying her abuser but at least the child wouldn't be born a by-blow.

R`84, um, you're really not coherent... maybe try again or try not typing if you're not capable...

R184 is one of those infamous what is your first language because it sure isn't english posts.

Whaddabout the (off?) Broadway cast of "Jeffrey" and the 1995 film? The film is on Tubi, just watched it.

Steven Webber was adorable as Jeffrey and I loved Patrick Stewart.