Reagan was a worse president than Trump

he was indeed horrid

Agreed, 100%.

I think they’ll both sit together in hell.

The only reason Reagan wasn't as bad as Trump is that he helped reduce the risk of nuclear warfare and reduced the number of nuclear arms during his presidency. That's it. Other than that, just as bad, with a lot of his "successes" actually being fairly awful, but have been whitewashed over the years to preserve his legacy.

Reagan made Trump possible.

GWB was worse than either of them.

That is true in that Lee Atwater- the nefarious architect of the rise of ignorant rightwing cuntery - was employed by Reagan

This is what you get for making a peanut farmer president.

If you pardon a crook what you get after that is a peanut farmer

[quote]This is what you get for making a peanut farmer president.

No, it's what you get when you elect a decent, intelligent man in a country full of indecent, repugnant people.

Reagan’s biggest crime was bringing the evangelicals into the Republican Party.

That was when they went full-out evil.

there's a special place in hell reserved for white evangelicals

Jimmy Carter was and is nothing more than a racist white southern hick whose drunk of a brother profited off Libyan terrorism.

I don’t recall seeing Jimmy Carter’s name in the title.

He is to blame for evangelicals meddling in politics. They came out to support him in 1976 because they thought he was going to dance to their tune. Even his own party launched a primary challenge in 1980, that’s why they sent Ted Kennedy. He was that unpopular. He hasn’t died yet because no president since him wants the job of spinning his presidency as a success. That will provoke more laughter than the funeral of Chuckles the Clown.

We're still dealing with all the shit Reagan started, 40 years later.

Lyndon B Johnson is the reason the Vietnam war turned into such a disaster. I’m not so sure John F Kennedy still being alive would’ve turned the tide all that much.

R16: The damage was done before Reagan became president. The McGovern Report’s nutritional recommendations signed by the Carter administration led to a huge spike in obesity with no end in sight.

r18 you are either a troll or totally ignorant. Reagan ushered in so much of what we're still dealing with today.

I highly recommend the Showtime three-part documentary series "The Reagans." It is an honest and critical evaluation of Reagan's presidency and just explodes the myth that he was a great president.

R20 = racist white trash

Showtime = Viacom = buckbreaker propaganda

r23 why don't you actually watch the damn thing? Everything that is talked about in the doc was backed up with archive footage.

Do you have to read Mein Kampf to know that Hitler was evil?

I think people who worship Reagan do so because we were all so much younger when he was president and it isn't his presidency we wax nostalgic over, it's that life was much easier because we were kids/young adults.

No he wasn’t - but his Presidency did pave the way for people like him and the worst of the Republican Party.

Still, Trump was worse - and the worst.

r20 - r13 is also r8, r15, r17 and r18

I’d say things were better off in the 1980s if gay and lesbian organizations actually cared about gay and lesbian interests.

R28 is also racist white trash.

How bad do you have to be to face a credible primary challenge in your own party as an incumbent?

Even Norman Lear refused to vote to reelect the man. Norman fucking Lear, who never met a liberal cause he didn’t run into the ground, had enough.

Oh, bless your heart, r30.

That's all you can really say to him, R32.

Hey Matt, have a TAB and a smile and shut the fuck up.

True, r33, it can't be easy going through life with his...issues.

Carter is a good man who has done more good in the world than many (or ANY) modern president has, and saying "Norman Lear didn't like him!" as proof that he's a bad person is pure stupidity, especially when the only reason you brought Carter up in the first place is because you're too immature to handle people disliking your boneheaded idol Ronald Reagan.

Jimmy Carter is a racist who hide behind Jesus to justify fomenting hate crimes against Jews.

R31 that’s not Norman Lear it’s Carrol O’Connor. Norman Lear actually supported John Anderson, a third party candidate. Carter boycotted one of the debates because Anderson was participating. He has a stubborn streak to say the least.

We have a good idea of Reagan’s sins and crimes, we’ve only just scratched the surface of Trump’s, ask again in 15 years.

Jimmy Carter enabled the homophobic terrorist state of Iran.

The Shah was not worse than what replaced him.

Trump fortunately didn't have two terms to do as much damage as Reagan did. Reagan brought into government a crew of complete scumbags - Ed Meese, Larry Speakes, Oliver North, Margaret Heckler and more. They built the template that swung the Republican party to the hard right, and that ultimately led to the current take-no-prisoners style of GOP politics.

Fuck them both - Reagan and Trump.

The country could not go on in the same direction it was going in in the 1970s economically. We are still paying the price for the stagflation policies of that era.

R21, is that streaming on any platform other than YT?

[quote]We are still paying the price for the stagflation policies of that era.

We are still paying the price for the Bush 2 tax cuts and the Iraq/Afghanistan war, and will continue to pay for the massive Trump/GOP windfall tax cuts for the very wealthy.

Stagflation was an effect of OPEC's oil boycotts and exponential price increases. What the US did not do was learn from that experience and develop a greener economy. And that is something we are still paying the price for

At least under GWB there were only two wars.

r44 it's Ondemand if you have Showtime on your cable, or Showtime Anytime online.

Thanks!

The Republican Party since Nixon has turned into criminals and fascists. Nixon>Reagan>GW Bush>Trump with the somewhat decent HW Bush in between, who needed to raise taxes, so he had to be flushed down the shitter.

Trump wasn’t able to be a bad as Reagan only because he’s such a narcissist he can’t let anyone tell him what to do. He’s completely incompetent at doing EVERYTHING except manipulating stupid people, so he wasn’t able to accomplish any of his truly awful agenda, except the massive tax break for the ultra rich.

Reagan had a pretty awful agenda as week but was far more dangerous, because he was perfectly happy to leave all the work to others. He once quipped that he was glad to be president so he could catch up on his sleep. He left the skilled devious cabinet and advisors to take care of enacting their dark plan. As a result, a massive amount of damage was done to the country during his presidency.

Dumbya was a lot like Reagan.

Both god awful but in different ways

Please don't compare us to the Trumps. True, we were evil and vile and greedy, but we did it with style and Galanos gowns.

Exactly, R51.

It's like asking: Would you rather eat cow shit or horse shit?

Who sucked more cock? Nancy Reagan or Melania Trump?

Shit makes plants grow.

Reagan and W Bush [italic] were [/italic] the worst presidents in modern history. Then, Trump came along and saved their reputations by comparison with his most horrible presidency. W Bush in particular owes Trump a big thank you taking the heat off him. And it probably helps that W is seen standing next to ex-president Clinton a few times.

W is now in the far past but he was much worse than Trump. A true war criminal who also enabled Enron one of the greatest financial frauds in history.

Carter definitely did good things. He was aloof and didn't really know how to command attention or appeal to the media. He was the one who hired Paul Volcker and it was Volcker who ended the stagflation of the 70s. He also started (necessary) deregulation of some industries and he tried to get us to universal healthcare but scumbag Ted Kennedy sabotaged his plan because he's petty. Also petty--Reagan. When he moved into the white house, one of the first things he did was rip off Carter's solar panels off the white house roof. What a cunt. I wonder what would have happened if Carter had a second term.

A recent poll of esteemed American historians evaluating American presidents put Reagan in 5th place; Clinton at 11 and Obama in the top 10. Reagan has blood on his hands. His trickle-down economic plan was a disaster for working Americans. His big achievement: He spent so much money on defense that he brought the USSR to its knees and paved the way for Gorbachev and the reunification of Germany. I wish Hinckley had had better aim.

Reagan, Clinton and Obama are rated wayyyyyy to highly. Truman is better than all three and I would rank LBJ higher than Obama, but he would "only" make the top 20 thanks to Vietnam.

In some ways, he's identical to Trump: entitled white guy, continuously kicked upstairs, never did a day of physical labor in his life.

Reagan was an actor. We Americans are dumb and fall for advertising. Most people probably couldn't name 5 things that his Administration did (good or bad), they just have a feeling that they like him. It just got exponentially worse over the years with reality tv and Trump.

Ronald Reagan did whatever his billionaire benefactors told him to do. He was an actor and he acted his way through the presidency.

He didn't even understand foreign policy let alone know how to talk about it. He was just an actor that could be marketed to a bunch of dumb white racist Americans who fall for the type of shit Ronald and Nancy Reagan was selling.

And the billionaires got everything they wanted and have so for the last 40 years at the expense of the country and it people. Fuck Ronald Reagan and his backers the Republican party and the stupid Crackers who voted to put him in the white house.

R63 is a racist:

[quote]He was just an actor that could be marketed to a bunch of dumb white racist Americans who fall for the type of shit Ronald and Nancy Reagan was selling

I think it's important to remember that this was the first presidency constructed completely around PR. Every single thing they did was strategized and staged for optimum media exposure, and the ensuing glowing coverage led to Reagan being labeled The Teflon President. Even when he violated the Constitution for Iran/Contra, he went on television and said, "A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not."

The press soft-pedaled that bullshit and it was enough to let him off scot-free.

Being able to influence public opinion is one way they judge Presidents. Reagan using PR effectively allowed him to achieve his agenda. Onlyn naive people would consider that a bad thing. Reagan gets very high marks for bankrupting the USSR and bringing it to collapse.

Evita was an actress too and she had no problem saying fuck you to powerful peoples.

She also tortured her enemies. She was not a nice person. Though she was a lot prettier than Patti LuPone who at least captured her ruthlessness if not her charm.

[quote] She also tortured her enemies.

Is that wrong?

The Reagans entire existence was smoke and mirrors. They always had really wealthy "friends" who paid for everything for them. Their housing their food their transportation their travel their clothes and their help etc.

And in return they, meaning the Reagans. Had to give their wealthy benefactors everything they wanted policy and regulation wise as well as laws.

Those wealthy assholes cleaned up with the Reagans in the white house. They got everything they wanted. They had two very effective puppets doing their bidding for them.

r66 = Dr. Goebbels

The Soviet Union was going to unravel no matter what, Reagan gets far too much credit.

The only thing Madge got right about Eva Peron was her phoniness.

R72, he helped speed it up but it was definitely Gorbachev who deserves most of the credit for the USSR disintegrating.

As R5 said, “Reagan made Trump possible.” No truer words were spoken.

You had to have lived through the 8 years of Reagan 1980 - 1988 to have witnessed the incremental dismantling of middle class stepping stones, anchors, and protections. When Lee Atwater got his brain tumor I celebrated.

Reagan was truly the worst in my 66 years. There is a Reagan corner in Hell. That’s where Trump is going.

The middle class threw their kids out for being gay while creating an unsustainable way of life that is threatening the planet.

Trump stood on Bush 2's shoulders who stood on his daddy's shoulders who stood on Reagan's shoulders.

People who refused to wear protective masks were following Trump's lead. I'm certain that if Trump had starting wearing a mask in February 2020, we wouldn't have have videos of Billy Bob screaming about Fascism as he's thrown off a Delta plane. We wouldn't have slimy GOP governors fighting shutdowns and public health measures every step of the way. Trump is personally responsible for the Covid catastrophe in a way that doesn't really apply to Reagan and AIDS. I actually think history will label Trump a murderer, not just a terrible president.

R78 I agree - that’s actually a pretty significant distinction (as far as wrong-doing goes) and why Trump ranks as the absolute WORST.

Great post r78 and you are 100% correct. Trump did so much damage, it's unbelievable. If Trump had started wearing a mask right away his army of idiot cult followers would've done the same and this catastrophe wouldn't have escalated the way it did.

Trump not only put children in cages, kissed Putin’s as, wrecked the economy, killed people by his anti-mask, hydroxyclorapin (that he owned stock in) lunacy, but he tried to overthrow our democratic system. He is the worst by far and history will not be kind to him.

Has it ever been determined why Trump wouldn't wear a mask?

Trump incited an insurrection, thus he deserves to be in last place. And he refuses to go away, stirring up his MAGA shitheads to still think (6 months after the Biden Administration was certified) the election was fake and that he will be reinstated in August. (And news flash, they will try again. I just hope DOJ, FBI, and ATF are on top of this and not filled with Trump friendlies who'll turn a blind eye)

Because Reagan steadfastly opposed Russian dictators, whereas Donald Trump blows Russian dictators for money.

Yeah, nothing "Boris" about you, OP.

Did Reagan actually run his presidency? Who made the decisions years in his later years when his mind was gone?

Lech Walesa, Solidarity, and John Paul II broke up the USSR.

Reagan took too much credit for it.

Bullshit. Trump is 1000 times worse. Trump is trying to make an end run around the Constitution to be elected without winning the popular vote OR the electoral college. Reagan made a terrible mistake with AIDS, but Trump is fucking evil.

Whoever posted this is a fucking Russian troll. Go fuck yourself, Boris. Fucking scum.

BORIS is a RETARD

Trump rescued 6 million kidnapped children from having Hillary drink their blood!

All Republicans have been pretty awful, just look at their record. Deficits, crashes, awfulness

It seems like Republicans are mostly interested in is “owning the libs”, even at their own expense. Throw in ingrained racism, sexism and homophobia, and you begin to understand the Deep South and why people seem to willingly live in dire poverty, at the hands of their Republican leaders, for their “beliefs”.

Luckily Dump was incredibly incompetent when it came to enacting his own policies, but his epic mishandling of the pandemic and instigating the insurrection put him near the bottom of the list in my opinion. Bush the second is the worst ever—started a war that killed millions and destabilized an entire region for years to come (over fake shit) and presided over the second worse economic recession ever. He tops the worst list.

Trump charmed Miss Lindsey. That is an accomplishment.

Reagan presided over the most corrupt cabinet in presidential history. He stole trillions from the middle class to cover the failure of trickle down economics. He had the fed convince everyone SS was bankrupt and raised FICA on the middle class to cover the shortage - only to take the trillions in surplus to cover the loss to the government due to his tax cuts on the rich. Not to metion Iran Contra, Aids failure. The reduction in nuclear weapons was not his doing it was Gorbechev. Regan showed up to that meeting totally unprepared. Then when it came time for Regan to testify in Iran Contra - he said he could not remember anything appearing old and feeble.

[quote] Lech Walesa,

The girl from Facts of Life?

[quote]Reagan presided over the most corrupt cabinet in presidential history

until the Trump Administration came along and blew that record away:

Recent administrations with the MOST criminal indictments:

Trump (Republican) — 215

Nixon (Republican) — 76

Reagan (Republican) — 26

"Recent administrations with the LEAST criminal indictments:

Obama (Democrat) — 0

Carter (Democrat) — 1

Clinton (Democrat) — 2

"Notice a pattern?"

R96, isn't it amusing that Republicans always accuse the Clintons of being the most corrupt family in history when your numbers speak for themselves?

Don't forget about Richard Nixon. He started a lot of the major Republican corruption in the modern era. Along with a lot of the racism and bigotry on the campaign trail that Trump put into overdrive.

And you can add Ford to that list too. He should've never pardoned Nixon for his crimes. I think it's ironic how Republicans always run on "law and order" but when they break the law and do illegal shit, their all begging for pardons and legal immunity etc., to protect themselves from any kind of legal prosecution or repercussions.

Law and order for thee, but not for me is how the Republican party operates.

Fuck them!

[quote] their all begging for pardons

Oh, dear!

The New Orange

R84: Russia was still a communist country when Reagan was President.

'Oh, Dear' @ r99 found an autocorrect error. Clap loudly, it wants attention.

Oh, yeah, right.

“It was autocorrect,” “it was a typo.” Uh-huh.

You’d get a lot more credibility if you admitted you fucked up and merely laughed it off.

Or admitted you don’t know the difference.

Republican corruption started with the founding of the GOP.

Grammar trolls are such annoying pieces of shit. Go read academic journals if spelling and grammar errors on a bullshit internet forum where half the poster are mentally ill or drunk bother you so much.

I'm glad you said that R105.

Fuck the grammar trolls, they get on my fucking nerves.

Today is the 4th, go stuff your face with hot dog's and burgers and stop being a damn grammar Nazi!

[quote]go stuff your face with hot dog's

Oh, dear!

Go eat some venison, R107.

I must agree with those who say Trump should absolutely be in last place. The motherfucker literally tried to overthrow our government. No one else comes close. How in the hell could he not be last when he had zero respect for the very office he was given and thinks govt is supposed to work for him rather than the American people? He did everything to show there was nothing remotely presidential about him. Even the worst presidents understood what their roles were and how govt is supposed to work.

This clown thought it meant he could be a fucking dictator. Trump is an imbecile who was given a position he knew absolutely nothing about and it showed.

Donald Trump and Andrew Johnson in my opinion are the two absolute worst American presidents in the history of this country.

And there's many others. But those are the two absolute worst in my opinion.

Andrew Johnson was basically white trash from Tennessee. Uneducated and extremely racist even for that time. He absolutely hated black people and openly expressed it. He was probably the single most dangerous president to the plight of African Americans by undoing all of the incentiteves that were put in place to help uplift black Americans after slavery had ended. If it wasn't for the shit Johnson did, we wouldn't be having the discussions on reparations today.

So you can thank president Andrew Johnson for all of the reparations talks going on now. He destroyed any chance of black people being able to pull themselves up at the end of slavery and being able to be full participants of the American experiment etc.

He was the very definition of white trash in the south.

James Buchanan failed to prevent the country from going to war with itself.

[quote]half the poster are mentally ill

Oh, dear!

Oh dear yourself, idiot.

[quote] Fuck the grammar trolls, they get on my fucking nerves.

You’re an illiterate racist and homophobe. Glad to be here to get on your nerves, you piece of shit.

Fuck r114. He gets on everyone's nerves.

I’ll call the wahmbulance for you.

What good would rewarding R114 with sex do, R115?

I wanted to do my casket dance in the Capitol.

Sex is not always a reward r117

Yes . Yes he was.

No one was worse than trump. No one.

I sort of think this is a stealth Troll thread to see if The Gays will buy into the notion that Trump was not that bad.

And if that's true, OP, then it seems that many gay men in their 60s and 70s will never forgive Reagan for his inaction during the early days of the AIDS crisis.

But those of us under 60 would be on Team R121

The "Oh, Dear" troll disrupted another thread that was having good discussion.

I’ve been fully vaccinated against all known strains of Republicanism. We’ll beat this pestilence that threatens the very foundations of our beloved democracy.

Well at least Reagan was patriotic enough to not sell off the country to Russian oligarchs. I also doubt he would have encouraged people to storm the Capitol. Other than that, he was pretty bad.

Carter was a complete failure. He delivered Iran back to the Russians. The middle East wouldn't be the mess it is now if Iran still had a leader who was a western ally. Not to mention that Iran fell back into the middle ages being the religious autocracy it is now.

Never understood the hype about Carter. He more than once said he was good friends with Newt Gingrich. You cannot be a decent person and be friends with Newt Gingrich. Impossible!

No r126. The Iranians despised the Shaw whom the U.S. backed.

^Shah

Thank you for the correction.

That bitch set the US up for failure and began our decline into third world status." Let the wealthy do whatever they wish , including pay no fucking taxes and their wealth will trickle down on you.. Eventually. "

[quote]The middle East wouldn't be the mess it is now if Iran still had a leader who was a western ally

Your ignorance is stunning. Re: Carter, you have absolutely no idea of what you write, and frankly, are part of the problem we are faced with today. Go back to school and learn basic world history, then spend a few years studying the Middle East, serve a tour or two in our endless wars, then send your children to fight in those wars, and only then get back to us on what you've learned.

R131, I’m not r126, but sincerely curious what you mean by our oil ending up under their sand?

OP here and no, I am not a stalking horse for somehow absolving Trump.

Trump was a absolutely terrible president. But what Reagan did was more subtly disastrous. Trump was, luckily for us, too stupid and incompetent to do anything more than fight for his own selfish interests. And he did it badly. Reagan basically fucked the nation over for decades to come, or perhaps, for good. Destroying the middle class, appointing idiotic judges, ignoring AIDS, screwing over our allies, not to mention possibly the most corrupt administration in history.

The country may recover from Trump, but it may never recover from Reagan. Read the article below.

R132, I hope I'm right. but I think R131 is making the point that the west fucked up the Middle East with its endless greed and thirst for oil.

And this below is a complete fucking moron who knows less than shit about history:

[quote]The middle East wouldn't be the mess it is now if Iran still had a leader who was a western ally. Not to mention that Iran fell back into the middle ages being the religious autocracy it is now.

They WERE secular before the Shah. They had a leader who deigned to want to nationalize THEIR oil, but the west wouldn't have it. The west overthrew that secular leader and installed the Shah who was dictatorial scum. Of course people will then gravitate to other leadership to escape the brutality of what they have.

In fact, if your stupid ass ever saw movies or picture of the Middle East from the 40s, 50s and 60s, you'd see the potential it had and how secular it was before the fucking west ruined it by installing brutal puppet after brutal puppet and destroying the countries for special interest and oil.

It only took white trash here losing a fucking democratic election to go savage. Imagine if they contended with actual brutality, death and destruction within their country.

The Middle East has been pretty fucked up throughout history and in particular since the 7th century, R132, but the real problems began when American oil companies discovered the vast reserves in the ME, and are the reason we've basically been at war with one faction or another since the middle of the last century.

Yeah, the west really fucked up the Middle East. More than any other region, arguably.

Should have read R134 before hitting post. My answer is the wanna-be Cliff's Notes version.

It had a more Monarch feel to me, r137.

Excellent post, r134. And thanks for the clarification on r131’s post.

Lebanon was ruined by Palestinians, it wasn't the West.

Having lived through the Reagan era, I honestly think they're about even.

Trump was absolutely a worse president than Reagan but Reagan made Trump possible.

No, it hasn't always been fucked up, R135. Were you there? Because I was - numerous times. Even in the early 80s, it wasn't as bad as now. Women weren't wearing bed sheets. The west propped up leaders and particularly, the Gulf State knuckle-draggering Wahhabi shits who funded the religious fanaticism in the Levant which didn't exist before the oil money flowed. And spare me the tiresome 7th Century crap. So tired of the buffoonish, hyperbolic nonsense like the rest of the world wasn't perpetually at war over centuries. The only difference is the west hasn't left the Middle East alone to this day.

[quote]Lebanon was ruined by Palestinians, it wasn't the West.

Yeah, just skip over the actual history where it was in fact the west. How dumb are you that you think Palestinians and Lebanese aren't genetically the same people? Palestinian refugees exist specifically because fucking Europe shoved their problems down the Middle East's throat. It's actually the fact that a bunch of Ashkenazi Jews came as terrorists (Irgun, Haganah, Stern Gang) and fucked everything up along with Europe not dealing with the problem they themselves created. Fucking Europe is responsible for not actually taking responsibility for their savagery towards their own citizens who were Jewish. Europe failed Ashkenazi Jews and Palestinians were made to pay for it. Mizrahi Jews are another story. They belong in the ME along with Muslims and Christians.

Iraq and Kuwait were one fucking country cut up by asshole Brits; that's why I couldn't care less that the UK is being "invaded." They deserve it for everything they did throughout the centuries.

Even Afghanistan had potential. It was pretty secular as recent as the 70s and then Reagan propped up the Mujahadeen who are now the Taliban.

R143 must be in his 80s

And crotchety AF

[quote]Fucking Europe is responsible for not actually taking responsibility for their savagery towards their own citizens who were Jewish. Europe failed Ashkenazi Jews and Palestinians were made to pay for it. Mizrahi Jews are another story. They belong in the ME along with Muslims and Christians.

Jews wanted to leave, the push for a Jewish homeland had been going on for centuries. Even if WWII hadn't happened, it was pretty inevitable. Blame the Arabs for being complete assholes for not wanting Jews there. Jews had every right to be there.

[quote]Even Afghanistan had potential.

Afghanistan never had potential, they've always been backwards.

[quote]Iraq and Kuwait were one fucking country cut up by asshole Brits; that's why I couldn't care less that the UK is being "invaded." They deserve it for everything they did throughout the centuries.

If Western countries are overrun with Medieval troglodytes you will care most deeply, believe me.

Reagan was not worse than Trump, but he certainly helped pave the way for Trump. He should have won an Oscar for his testimony that he did not remember his actions in Iran Contra. Republicans went on to lie about Clinton as they were stalking him. And they did the same with Obama. Then Trump showed up and there was no attempt to even look like he might be telling the truth.

NB: Most of the things R143 is bitching about happened around 100 years ago, at the end of World War I as the Ottoman Empire broke up, and then some other 75 years ago as Britain and France divested themselves of their colonies post-WW II.

History happens,

75 years after the US broke off from Britain we were headed towards the Civil War.

100 years later we were nearing the end of Reconstruction and the beginning of the US as a major industrial power along with the Great Immigration of the 1880s-1910s.

The world changes no matter how much a handful of Eldergays howl at the moon.

I would have taken “subtle evil” any day over these last 4 years. At least he didn’t start try to overthrow our Democracy and people didn’t wake up every day wondering what shit was going to hit the fan next.

Low bar I know but no one comes close to Trump’s repugnance and level of corruption, really.

[quote]No [R126]. The Iranians despised the Shaw whom the U.S. backed.

Half of Iranians didn't want the country to slip back into the dark ages R127. Which is exactly what happened when Khomeini took over.

The middle East was always a powder keg and Islamist expansionism and imperialism has always been a threat to the stability of not only the region but also the West. These people cannot help but be fighters for the legacy of their warlord. It's inherent to Islam.

R143 is a racist. "T-rr-r-st" is a racial slur when used to describe nonwhites and that very much includes Jews.

R151 it’s an ethnicity not a race! Like Italian, Greek, etc. Bajeezus!

Satan reincarnates, OP.

[quote]Half of Iranians didn't want the country to slip back into the dark ages R127. Which is exactly what happened when Khomeini took over.

R150, you seem to be unaware of the extent to which Western intelligence, particularly the CIA, went towards the creation of Muslim extremist movements like the one Khomeini eventually rode to power. They were trying to play some sort of long game in order to cripple the influence of the Soviet Union in that part of the world (the issue was always, and perhaps always will be, geopolitical control of Middle Eastern oil), but it backfired spectacularly in our faces, several times over.

R143's assessment is essentially correct.

R143 basically thinks the Ummayads and the Ottomans deserved all the territory they steamrolled and occupied in the name of Mohammad and the West should have just rolled over and welcomed Islam with open arms.

R155, R143 said nothing of the sort.

Everything wrong about the Middle East is blamed on the West, but the Ottomans get a free fucking pass. Probably because uneducated Americans have no fucking clue what the Ottoman Empire even was.

It's far outside the scope of this thread, R157, and nothing anyone was discussing. Stop trying to derail the thread with your bullshit.

Islam was always extremist R154, it rejected reformation for centuries, it was born out of an expansionist idea. The West didn't give Mohammad ideas like FGM, sharia law, rejection of liberalism and enlightenment. death sentence for apostasy etc. The Mujaheddin existed before the US propped them up to kick Russia out of Afghanistan.

Oh ok PoisonedDragon we can talk about the West but the Ottomans are off limits because you're the boss of this thread.

I'm sorry your fucked up upbringing and miserable family made you turn out the way you did but you should get help.

We lack the distance/perspective to qualitatively say which president was worse - if for no other reason than that Trump isn't completely over and done with. The damage is still unfolding.

Islamic empires waged war against the West for centuries.

The hasbara peddlers have invaded this thread!

The Regan Library burnt down. Of the two books inside, he'd only finished coloring in one.

#Reagan

Folks, lay off R143. He can't decide if I'm correct — that the ME has always been fucked up — or that it was fucked up by American/oil intervention, but he sure wants everyone to know that it was fucked up previously ("by asshole Brits") then by us, but it was lovely when he vacationed there in the 80s.

Parallel universe much?

Yup, the world has been at war with itself since, well, if I tell the truth and say "since the beginning of recorded history", I'm sure R143 will jump it to tell me I'm rightwrong. Or wrongright. He can't make up his mind.

R166, that was greatbad!

Even before Islam, the Middle East was a shitty place. They never reached the grandeur of Greece or Rome.

With wall-to-wall deserts, that's a bit difficult.

It wasn't all desert.