Princess Caroline: A Study in Messy > Tragedy > Triumph?

She's been through a hell of a lot. She has my respect.

OMG, the mink coat with leopard lining! There's the 80s right there, sonny.

She was beautiful in her youth so I'm surprised she hasn't resorted to a little surgery to freshen up the face a little. On one hand, good for her but on the other, she looks incredibly haggard.

She's a survivor. She's been through a lot, but poverty has not been one of the tragedies, fortunately for her.

She loves high fashion, but unfortunately what she loves in it most is glitz.

Her outfits are most of the time too over-the-top, and detract attention from how pretty and slender she is.

Didn’t all her hair fall out at one point.

(And dare I say, if she had a hard life, that was of her own making. NO advantage was spared with this one.)

Her first husband, banker and later venture capitalist Philippe Junot, was so hot. he was about 15 years older than she was, and a total pussyhound, as very handsome and nicely built rich French men tend to be.

Obviously she was looking for a father substitute.

He's still alive.

Scrub to 3 mins...I love when she says that taking over her mother's duties with the charities was easy because Grace was so good at it. What a lovely sentiment!

For some reason she looks like Jackie On Assistance sometimes...LOL.

How does that public pisser Hanover outrank the Monegasques?

I prefer the Italian 2nd husband.

She WAS so glamorous and breathtakingly beautiful. But then age, sun and smoking caught up to her with the fug stick.

Is there any footage of Barbara Walters actually clutching her pearls?

I remember that Barbara Walters interview R9 and was fascinated that she had sort of a French accent while Stephanie and Albert sounded very American.

[quote] (And dare I say, if she had a hard life, that was of her own making. NO advantage was spared with this one.)

I have mixed feelings with her. She had a very unhappy childhood despite her privilege: her father cheated constantly on her mother, and it got so bad Grace moved the children to Paris with her for several years in the 1970s and stayed away from him. Plus she apparently did not realize going into the marriage that she would never be allowed to act again: she wanted to come back to play the lead in "Marnie," and Rainier told her it was impossible since she was now royalty. So Grace became a very unhappy alcoholic since she could neither work for divorce her philandering husband, and it must have been hard for the children to grow up with that dynamic.

Caroline made her mother pretty miserable with her marriage to Junot and re-marriage to Stefano Casiraghi (since that's also against the precepts of the RC Church), and in her final years Grace's biggest worry was how to get the first marriage annulled by the Pope. For some reason h was much less willing to do this for her then he was for RFK Jr., or as Pope Francis has been willing to do for Boris Johnson.

But, when Grace died, Caroline really stepped up to the plate. She was willing to act as her father's hostess and primary helper when her siblings were out whoring around. She never embarrassed the family nearly as much as Albert or Stephanie did; nor did she go on Oprah to blame her family for all her problems the way some royals have done.

Why would Princess of Hanover outrank her tittle, as there is no recognized German nor Austrian nobility. Caroline has a REAL recognized title as Princess of Monaco.

R16 Caroline married Casiraghi almost a year and a half after Grace died. Although you’re right about Grace trying to get the first marriage annulled (which it was eventually in 1992).

R2 that mink with the leopard...iconique ou tragique?

Prince Albert is like a different person now than when he was young. Holy krap!

R 17 this is what I am wondering as well. Hope someone can weigh in!

Caroline was gorgeous, elegant and so well-spoken. She always looks so serious.

She's kind of like Caroline Kennedy in that she looks much older than her years.

In the Barbara Walters interview Caroline does say that she regrets that she married so young but it was a way for her to gain independence as she was not allowed to flatshare, etc. So from her POV the young marriage to the father figure made sense. And she got out of it without any children and made a better choice the next time...altho these Euro playboys abound and so things will never be perfect. All in all I have to say that she has navigated with a great deal of dignity and "grace". Even Stephanie has. And lord, there were a lot of headlines there...

Natural lighting shows all defects. She looks well for her age, tasteful hair style and makeup.

I like that she has not resorted to the Bo or plastic surgery. She's fking comfortable in her skin as she ages and that is awesome!

I remember her always being in the tabloids in the 1970s

LOVE her! She was THE Princess before Diana. Some of her youthful antics were fun to read about in the scandal sheets, I remember pictures of her tipsy with her tits falling out of a dress at a party. I think she was that rare child of a movie star who was just as beautiful in her own unique way. She was probably glad Diana came along and took some of the spotlight off of her. She seems very strong. It’s nice to see her a matriarch now, with all those children and grandchildren.

Princess Caroline was so striking and gorgeous that she didn't need a lot of jewels to show off her beauty. She always dressed so elegantly. Princess Stephanie was also quite striking and a natural beauty, but her looks went downhill much earlier.

This is not dishy, but here's an interview w Caroline discussing the legacy of Jacques Danois the head of Unicef. A princess who keeps her "self" and mental health out of it and discusses the work - quelle idee!! Tres bien!!

Markle doesn't even come close in elegance, style and dignity to Princess Caroline.

Stephanie was the crazy one. A fling with Rob Lowe, a record deal when she couldn’t sing, and my all-time favorite; running away to join the circus. She looks worse for wear ,too

Cary Grant visited every year!! I think I fainted...

This BabaWawa contains some different bits at the start and throughout. A different cut.

She's so lucky. I am sure she always had people asking her if she's okay.

What language does she speak at home, with family? French I imagine?

With regard to Caroline's titles, Wikipedia is clear as mud. It starts with: "Caroline, Princess of Hanover; Countess of Polignac." No mention of Princess of Monaco in the first couple para. And then this word salad:

"Caroline's third and current husband is Prince Ernst August of Hanover, Duke of Brunswick, head of the House of Hanover which lost its throne in 1866.[4] From 1913 to 1918, his family ruled the sovereign Duchy of Brunswick...Her husband's title as Duke of Brunswick is honorific since the ruling family of that state was removed by the Weimar Republic in 1918, along with all royal and noble German ruling families, which were still allowed to retain their titles. Neither she nor her husband has royal rank in Germany, but Monaco recognizes the Hanoverians' former German royal titles, attributing to the couple the style of Royal Highness. On 11 January 1999, shortly before Caroline and Ernst's wedding, his fourth cousin once removed (George III was their common ancestor), Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom, issued this Order in Council, "My Lords, I do hereby declare My Consent to a Contract of Matrimony between His Royal Highness Prince Ernst August Albert of Hanover, Duke of Brunswick-Luneburg and Her Serene Highness Princess Caroline Louise Marguerite of Monaco...". As a legitimate male-line descendant of George III, Ernst August was subject to the Royal Marriages Act 1772 (repealed in 2015). Prior to the repeal of the Act, the revised form of which limits those who must gain permission to the first six people in the line of British succession, marrying without the Queen's Royal Assent would have meant their marriage would be void in Britain, where Ernst August's family owned substantial property and he holds (dual) citizenship.[4] Likewise, the Monégasque court officially notified France of Caroline's contemplated marriage to Prince Ernst August and received assurance that there was no objection, in compliance with Article 2 of the 1918 Franco-Monégasque Treaty.[35] Despite obtaining the official approval of the governments of France, Monaco and the United Kingdom, upon Caroline's marriage to Ernst August he forfeited his own place in Britain's order of succession. He is also subject to the Act of Settlement 1701, which imposes that consequence upon British dynasts who marry Roman Catholics.[4] The Succession to the Crown Act of 2013 however removed that consequence of marrying a Roman Catholic, and would place him back in the order of succession."

[quote] Didn’t all her hair fall out at one point.

Yes, she had Alopecia, the same thing I suffered with. I always thought my mother caused my hair loss.

I didn't read this article, but the pic of Caro and Charlo shows such a resemblance to each other. And also, Charlo's shoes are ridic. Can people in the post-apocolypse stop wearing ridiculous shoes??

Grace sure gave her kids the most fuddy-duddy names.

“Caroline”

“Stephanie”

“Albert”

There are traditional choices that don’t reek of mothballs.

[quote] Pope Francis has been willing to do for Boris Johnson.

Pope Francis didn’t give Boris Johnson an annulment. His first wedding didn’t take place in a Catholic Church, and therefore, didn’t count.

Additionally he abandoned the Catholic Church when at Etonian and was confirmed into the Church of England so he’s wasn’t technically Catholic . Since knocking up his mistress he has “rediscovered” his RC faith.

[quote] With regard to Caroline's titles, Wikipedia is clear as mud.

She is HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco. Her legal name in Germany is Caroline Prinzessin von Hannover because there are technically no royal titles in Germany, the title becomes part of the surname. Socially, she is The Princess of Hanover. And at any functions in countries still under monarchies, she is recognized as HRH The Princess of Hanover.

The decision of the courts in the early 1950s is a bit nebulous and causes confusion. The then Prince of Hanover, wanted his English titles restored to him and to be recognized as a British prince. He did not get what he wanted and the Titles Deprivation Act was upheld that because the Hanoverians being German were at war with Britain during the First World War, they were "enemies" and removed from the titles and peerage rolls. They were not allowed to call themselves Prince or Princess of Great Britain and nor were they allowed to be Prince or Princess plus first name "of Cumberland", which was the Royal Dukedom held by the King of Hanover even after Hanover ceased being a kingdom.

What was determined in the 1950s is that any legitimate descendants of Sophia, Electress of Hanover who did not take up arms against Britain could apply for and receive British citizenship and British passports. Their British titles were not restored, but they were recognized as holders of foreign titles in Britain even if such titles no longer existed in their home countries.

R17, because the House of Hanover is a royal house, whereas the House of Grimaldi is a princely house. As such, Caroline is addressed as Her Royal Highness, while her brother the sovereign prince Albert is addressed as His Serene Highness. She outranks him in the royal hierarchy.

I her youth her lovers included Roberto "Robin" Rossellini (whatever happened to THAT wastrel youth, anyway?) and the very fine Bjorn Borg.

I wouldn't call her life "hard" in any respect. She's a goddamn Princess, for fuck's sake! But it has had its ups and downs: the failure of her first marriage, the sudden death of her mother, the sudden death of her second husband. But she's no one to feel sorry for. She's lived a life of incredible privilege; not a "hard" life at all.

[quote]Pope Francis didn’t give Boris Johnson an annulment. His first wedding didn’t take place in a Catholic Church, and therefore, didn’t count.

You mean, his first two weddings weren't in a Catholic church. This is his third wedding

R39 Beautiful names. And I love one of the middle names Caroline chose for her daughter - Pomeline.

OMG - the things we wore in the 80s. Yikes!

r41 Is it just Caroline's preference then to be "Caroline, Princess of Hanover; Countess of Polignac" rather than HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco? Why wouldn't she just pull a "Daenerys Targaryen; Stormborn; Khaleesi; Breaker of Chains" and be: Caroline, Princess of Hanover;Countess of Polignac; HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco?

[quote] What language does she speak at home, with family? French I imagine?

Like her siblings, she's a polyglot. Growing up, she spoke English to her mother and her mother's relations, and she spoke French to her father and her siblings. Princess Grace said many times that she seldom had trouble understanding Rainier when he spoke French, but when her children spoke to each other in French, she usually had trouble following what they were talking about.

To her children from her second marriage, she speaks French and Italian.

To her daughter with Ernst August, she speaks French, German, and English. She spoke mostly English with EA and at times in German.

Her go to language with her siblings today is almost exclusively French.

At one time, she was fairly proficient in Spanish, but as she has rarely needed to speak it, much of it has probably left her.

R8, Caroline looks like she's barely in her teens, while he is a handsome daddy. Creepy.

[quote]R39 There are traditional choices that don’t reek of mothballs.

I always though Stephanie was a very stodgy, colorless name. (Makes me think “Stuffanie.”) I think variations of it have a long history in France, tho, so maybe that makes it sound better over there.

Roberto Rossellini Jr.'s VPL

French Stéphanie sounds slightly different from English Stephanie.

At her honeymoon in1978 she looked really good:

She certainly rode roughshod over her parents in her youth and caused them great grief. Some might see her as noble now, but she’s a former international embarrassment.

[quote] Is it just Caroline's preference then to be "Caroline, Princess of Hanover; Countess of Polignac" rather than HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco?

It's only a guess, but using HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco would be akin to going back to her maiden name. There is also the question of rank. In royal courts, being the Princess of Hanover would give her a higher status than being a Serene Highness of a principality.

After she married EA, she signed her name Caroline, Princess of Hanover. During her previous marriages, her formal signature was Caroline de Monaco and occasionally just her first name as British and Scandinavian royals do.

R51 Well hello, heartthrob of many decades ago!! What has become of you??!!??

[quote] but she’s a former international embarrassment.

She's a goddam saint compared to the present day lot.

R54, Yes, Caroline was trouble, but once Stephanie came of age, Caroline's rebel antics paled in comparison. She suddenly became the good daughter.

R41 Your post doesn't explain why Caroline's Monegasque title is sub to Hanover House. Can you enlighten??

R50 Are you kidding?? Stephanie is the feminine of Stephen/Stephanos = Crown. Very classical and lovely. Just ask Stevie Nicks (and hope she doesn't kick you in the cunt bone).

Caroline seamlessly assumed her mother's duties after Grace's tragic death, including being a companion to her father at state ocassions, which is what was needed although I am sure not a comfortable position for her initially. I give her props.

R59, Monaco is a principality and the family bears the rank and qualification of Serene Highness. Hanover, is a former kingdom, and while the House of Hanover is defunct, they were Royal Highnesses. Among monarchs, a Royal Highness (extinct or not) is always higher than a Serene Highness.

Roughly in order...

Imperial Highness

Royal Highness

Grand Ducal Highness

Highness

Serene Highness

Illustrious Highness

Depending on the country, "Excellency" can rank before or after "Highness".

Sorry, that should read: Depending on the country, "Excellency" can rank before or after "Serene Highness".

Serene Highness just sounds the most beautiful.

R58 True but the tabloids rarely put Stephanie on a cover or in the headlines. From my European POV Stephanie also had the luck that Diana arrived and got all the media attention. The people had a lot of sympathy for Stephanie as I recall and her party time didn't last that long.

R62 thank you! Two more questions: 1) Are there any extant Imperial Highnesses to which QEII would have to bow? and 2) Can you give an example of Illustrious Highness? I have never heard this title before. Thank you in advance!

For royal names, Caroline, Albert and Stephanie are lovely names.

Why would simple "Highness" rank above "Serene Highness?"

Every Stephanie I’ve ever known was fat.

Some of the "highness" questions are not easily answered in a DL response. It can get very complicated and often times has to do with history and an examination of all titles held by an individual.

Here is an explanation of Imperial, royal, serene, illustrious and princely styles etc.

Royal and noble styles including France, United Kingdom, Belgium and Germany:

R69. Princess Stephanie of Monaco has been many things. Fat isn't one of them.

Caroline and Stephanie seem to have inherited the Kelly athletic but slim builds. Stephanie in particular has always had a model figure.

[quote]R69 Every Stephanie I’ve ever known was fat.

[quote]R71 Princess Stephanie of Monaco has been many things. Fat isn't one of them.

I don’t know her.

Stephanie is built like a linebacker. Her daughter Camille, however...

R66 QEII would not have to bow or curtsey to anyone since she became queen. A reigning monarch whether a "Majesty" or "Catholic Majesty" or "Imperial Majesty", they are all considered equal.

There are a couple of Romanovs who have assumed the titles of Grand Duke and Grand Duchess with the styles of Imperial Highnesses who are not even recognized as a Grand Duke or Grand Duchess by the rest of the present day Romanovs as that was reserved strictly for children and grandchildren (in the male line) of a Tsar. (Current European monarchies carefully avoid getting involved in battle of titles within the Romanov Family.) There hasn't been a Tsar of Russia since Nicholas II and there were no surviving descendants through him. The last legitimately holder of the title Grand Duchess died in 1960. Remaining Romanovs use "Highness" or "Serene Highness", depending on their descent and Prince or Princess plus first name. Certain members of Japan's monarchy hold the qualification of Imperial Highness. Those who are Royal Highnesses by blood have not bowed or curtsied to Imperial Highnesses for a century. While technically of a higher rank, no physical deference is shown. It might appear differently on occasion, but then it's a case of difference in age rather than rank.

When Princess Charlene of Monaco met Elizabeth II, she curtsied, although it wasn't required as she was the wife of a Head of State (Albert).

In Europe, there were counts and countesses given their titles by heads of state of their relevant countries. They were ennobled, as it was called, and such titles were plentiful and often given on a whim. There were Counts and Countesses of the Holy Roman Empire and they ranked higher than the usual counts and countesses of various districts and semi- royal states. To emphasize their importance and superior rank, they were usually granted the qualification of "Illustrious Highness" by the Holy Roman Emperor of the day.

StuffItInMe, not looking so good:

It really wouldn't take much to fix her up. A facelift, eyelift and necklift, laser resurfacing, and Botox. Also cosmetic dentistry, eg veneers, if her teeth cannot be whitened.

r76 thank you for the detail.

[quote]r78 It really wouldn't take much to fix her up. A facelift, eyelift and necklift, laser resurfacing, and Botox. Also cosmetic dentistry, eg veneers, if her teeth cannot be whitened.

Yes. That sounds like a mere half hour, tops.

A widow @ 33. Tough news especially with 3 small children.

And then she marries this prince for love, obviously.

r78 = Kris J.

Wealthy, beautiful, titled, living in one of the world's most stunning locales.....yeah, Caroline had it tough.

Better to age rich than to age...not rich.

Yes, Caroline had a privileged life, but she had a lot of tragedy in it too. Losing a mother to such a tragic accident in 1982 and then a husband in 1990 with whom she had three small children is not easy. Plus, she and Stefano Casaraghi were very happily married.

Her daughter Charlotte Casaraghi is even more beautiful, IMO.

Supposedly the accident that killed the 2nd husband was not an accident & he was killed by the mafia; I have no idea if that's true, but reading later that the Russian mafia basically runs the Monaco casinos made it a bit more believable.

She should've been the ruler (queen/princess?) of Monaco and not her odd brother & his hostage/wife

Andrea Casiraghi and his wife Tatiana Santo Domingo were known as notorious heroin addicts in NY. He was very beautiful when he was younger.

Gdamn I miss the gossip this family spawned in the early - late 80s. Messiness, glamour, drugs, bed hopping.

The current generation all seem to be taking the Princess Stephanie route of drugs, smoking, hard partying & questionable spouses; they're less glamorous & more like common eurotrash. The youngest daughter lost that German piggy face of her father Ernst and grew up into a pretty young woman (no Charlotte, but at least she doesn't look so much like Ernst)

Caroline was stunning when she was younger, and her daughter looks very much like her mother at the same age.

There’s something about these women that makes their beauty blossom early before it fades very quickly. I like to call it the Brooke Shields effect, because one minute they’re the most beautiful thing you’ve ever seen and the next minute they’re average looking women. Charlotte has already begun her transition from exceptional beauty to ordinary woman.

Stephanie always annoyed the hell out of me. She was always built like an IKEA wardrobe, had those ugly and chewed off fingernails, no style or taste, dated the most repulsive men, acted like a spoiled rich girl and tried a different career every week.

From modeling, fashion design, acting, to her music with gems like “Irresistible”, she was the original delusional and entitled brat who thought that the world owed her fame and success, even though she was not particularly beautiful or talented, and always managed to embarrass herself and her family in public.

The media treated her like a professional victim after her mother’s death, and Stephanie lapped it up and ran with it. Whenever she acted like a fool, there would be an article about her and some reference to Gracia Patricia’s awful death while Stephanie was in the car with her.

R54, she did, she was.

IMO, everyone needs to have a rebellious phase. It’s necessary for development. The most well-adjusted people I know were hellions as teens. The ones who didn’t misbehave, and performed perfectly are now neurotic adults.

Caroline made up for it, I think, in her more mature years.

While the term "mentally ill" tends to be an excuse for general bad behavior, overindulgence, stupidity, etc., I do think in Stephanie's care she probably *is* mentally ill. Judging from the pictures of her, she just looks...off. Though for the most part, her kids appear to have turned out okay despite their oddball lifestyle.

R94, I doubt it. Even her mother called her the "wild child" when Stephanie was little. She was probably just the spoiled last child, like so many others, who was allowed to do whatever she wanted to do. The few interviews she's given where she talked about the accident were pretty much all about "poor moi, nobody knows what I have been going through since the accident". Don't get me wrong, I do feel for what she had to go through, and I don't wish that on anyone, but what bugs me is that she's always just been a badly behaved spoiled brat.

She should have just given up her titles and continued living her rebellious life, dated the various circus clowns that she's been dating, and fucked her bodyguards as she always has, but the fact that she's still a princess and that the tabloids pretend that she's anything other than a trashy human who has made the worst life choices while disregarding any responsibility that should come with her title and who looks like a meth addict, nauseates me.

Tatiana brought a couple BILLION bucks into that family. She was my student for a semester. All those jet setting South American heiresses at le Rosey are pretty, chic, and amusingly decadent. Never met the prince but he sure was a looker when young.

Getting old

There is no romanc, no style, no glamour to “Caroline”, “Stephanie” and “Albert”.

One pictures Teutonic Hausfrauen with large arms, watery blue eyes and piggy noses, born before the 1960s.

R9 I’ve never, ever heard Rainier’s voice before. I’m stunned - I assumed he would speak broken English with a thick French accent but he sounds like an Englishman. Wonder if they spoke mostly English in the home.

R92 While Caroline has definitely aged, she will never look like an ordinary woman.

Source: I live in the US and see ordinary women everywhere.

R97, Caroline and Stephanie have spent too much time out in that harsh Mediterranean sunlight. They are my older sisters' ages, but my sisters are well preserved compared to them.

Princess Stéphanie of Monaco, meet Prince Harry of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

"Lets get together and make some bad decisions!"

R87 Charlotte is very beautiful, especially in that photo, but her features are a little coarser than Caroline's. In a way, though, Charlotte appropriately has a more contemporary sort of beauty. Her lips are natural huge pillows, I don't know how she chews. A nice thing about her is, she has a deep, rich, low speaking voice which is unusual for a young woman nowadays.

Caroline's other daughter, Princess Alexandra, has also grown into a beauty, I like her look a lot. Her style is fresh-faced, natural and ladylike. Exotic eyes and Grace Kelly's big toothy smile.

Someone mentioned Camille upthread, she's looking good these days too.

I always found Stephanie to be over-aerobicized and masculine when I was a kid, in a way that chic French women didn’t seem to be in the 80s and 90s.

I loved seeing all her outfits. Especially when she was younger, the casual “rich girl” ones. An older wealthy woman can have a stylist and personal shopper, etc., but younger ones tend to want to choose their own clothing, so you can really see a more organic personal style.

Btw that’s Alexandra in my post at R103

R96 Yes, Caroline's sons married well in that regard. Tatiana certainly cultivates an image as the boho fashionista of the family.

R99 - Rainier went to school in England and that's why he has an English accent.

As per Wiki...Rainier's early education was conducted in England, at the public schools of Summerfields in St Leonards-on-Sea, Sussex, and after 1935[2] at Stowe School, in Buckinghamshire.

Rainier reminds me of Nicky Arnstein, the way Omar Sharif played him.

Tho fatter

R100, with all due respect, I don’t think that we can use the “average” American woman who grocery shops in her pajamas as a comparison.

Caroline is still an attractive woman, but she lost that exceptional beauty that she once had. It doesn’t have anything to do with age or wrinkles.

Some women’s features don’t do well as they get older and their once angelic features become harsh and masculine looking at times. I mentioned Brooke Shields, and Cindy Crawford, who now looks like Caitlyn Jenner, would be another example. Charlotte’s features have changed as well, and while she’s still beautiful, she’s not the great and exceptional beauty she used to be.

R104, not just her body, even her face screamed Stephan instead of Stephanie.

R59, there's a lot of fantasy to the royal title business (obviously). Hereditary titles were outlawed in Germany following WWI. The families still have money, and they swan around calling themselves "Prince" and "Princess," but German titles don't have the same legal reality that the Monaco titles do.

When I was a young teen I thought Andrea Casirghi was the hottest thing- I loved the long blond hair, the button down shirts with three or four buttons undone, the bracelets and general laid back look.

Now he looks like shit.

Little brother Pierre looks pretty good these days. Not gorgeous, but an attractive man. He could be wearing sweats and you could tell he comes from a lot of money. He has that upper crust vibe.

^Casiraghi

Well, there you have it. What everyone knew all along.

R111, Better to have once been a spectacular beauty than.....not.

As for Caroline's personal tragedies, from her philandering father to her own divorce, mother's untimely death, and young widowhood with three children....

There is nothing extraordinary about any of that. All tragic, all common. The Human Condition.

Ask young widows of soldiers. Ask parents of children on cancer wards. Ask the surviving family members of police murders, or of drunk drivers, airplane crashes, Covid-19.

Heck, ask Chelsea Clinton or Ivanka Trump about their cheatin' and impeached sires!

Even Charlotte's husband cheated on her!

But wouldn't you be happy with the consolation that at least you possessed a face that could launch a thousand ships, or magazine covers?

[quote] Your post doesn't explain why Caroline's Monegasque title is sub to Hanover House. Can you enlighten??

I'm not the person you're asking, but as Princess of Hanover she is an HRH, and as Princess of Monaco she is an HSH. HRH outranks HSH.

Whether her title is recognized or not in the UK doesn't really matter that much. She socializes with Continental royalty, and they treat the German royal titles (and other royal titles from technically deposed royal families, like the Greek royal titles) as if they still matter. So, to them, an HRH (a royal title) always outranks an HSH (a princely title).

I don't think anyone's claiming that they feel sorry for Princess Caroline. I think the idea is more that her life has not been a bed of roses, for all her beauty and wealth and fame.

Ultimately, she's dealt with her setbacks maturely.

If you watch that interview with Caroline upthread you can see she’s at least trying to sound humble, well aware that her struggles are normal ones that could’ve been much worse. You can also see she’s very uncomfortable with being interviewed; her demeanor is serious and her body language is striking, always turned away or looking away. I like her for it.

R119, We don't need to go to European royalty (or serenity?) for such tales of woe and endurance of the beautiful, rich, and famous.

Show-biz is full of them.

Yes, lots of time in the sun, but both Caroline & Stephanie have dark hair and seems like their skin should have been able to hold up better.

Comparison to Brooke Shields is a good comparison.

Remember when Princess Stephane "dated" Rob Lowe and they looked like androgynous twins!?

She hit her nadir when she shacked up with the circus guy. Mon Dieu!

Here's a documentary about a year in the life of Prince Albert. Very interesting, IMO, esp. the parts about food.

[quote] We don't need to go to European royalty (or serenity?) for such tales of woe and endurance of the beautiful, rich, and famous. Show-biz is full of them.

I don't understand this. You're saying we should not be interested in European royalty because we already have show-biz celebrities??

[italic]Chacun à son goût.[/italic]

[R43], the tone of your comment leads me to believe that you would last about forty minutes before falling victim to the vapours, if your life and Caroline's were switched.

I always wondered what happened to Roberto Rosselini. I follow his sister Isabella on IG and she mentions her sister and children, but never her brother.

I feel like if Roberto Rosselini and Princess Caroline had kids they would have either been the most gorgeous kids ever or Willis girl fuggos

I googled Roberto Rossellini and got Isabella’s adopted son, also Roberto. He’s quite dishy!!

Roberto/Robertino/Robin lives on an isolated island in Sweden. He's still skinny and still has great hair (far left)...

Thanks to whatever assholes greyed out the OP. Now, I can't see the article.

Grace Kelly became frumpy in middle age, but didn't look as weathered and hard-partying as her daughters.

What an interesting review of the Rosselini's. I did not know that Isabella had a twin sister!

R131, Update your Settings to 'Asbestos', and the OP's article is still available, You can always set the Settings back afterwards.

I like these threads on European royals, we should have more of them. The BRF is covered enough with six new ones every day.

I like the understated but sophisticated European royals who live well and have their own titles and gossip. The BRF has been damaged by that grifter D-list LA actress.

LOL

Not to drag the Brits into it, but here's one of the very few photos of Diana and Caroline together. Why couldn't they have gotten a nice straight-on shot of the two beautiful princesses, blonde and brunette?

"I always wondered what happened to Roberto Rosselini."

A biography of Ingrid Bergman described the young "Robin" (this was long ago) as a shiftless, rich playboy; didn't work, just traveled and partied and screwed around. I think all of Ingrid Bergman's children (with the exception of Pia, the daughter she abandoned when she left her husband and Pia for Rossellini) were spoiled rotten. Someone asked Bergman why she gave her children anything they wanted and she reportedly replied something like "How else will they love me?" Some people should never have children, and Ingrid Bergman was one of them.

Grace Kelly looked very pretty but plump in her older age. The super skinny old lady look really does the face no favors and makes everybody look like a dried prune.

[quote] I think all of Ingrid Bergman's children (with the exception of Pia, the daughter she abandoned when she left her husband and Pia for Rossellini) were spoiled rotten.

That's simply not true.

I knew Ingrid Rossellini slightly when I used to live in Princeton (she taught Italian at the university): she was extremely hardworking and smart, and very nice.

(Before anyone asks: I never asked her about her parents or her siblings; I've had enough experience with children of famous parents to know that in order to be polite, you don't bring the subject up, but wait for them to bring it up.)_

Robin Rossellini worked as a stockbroker in NYC in the 80s, then as an investment banker in Monte Carlo before retiring to Sweden. He was a playboy when he was younger, but had later a long career in finance.

Charlotte is impressive

VERY masculine jaw on Charlotte.

The Grimaldi women are beautiful in their youth but lose their looks hard and fast when they hit their mid thirties.

A great blog here with a section on the Grimaldis.

I am, I know, the only person on the planet who adores Caroline's first-wedding look. The eyelet dress and floral headpiece, so sweet.

I also loved her dress, veil and overall style when she married Junot. Elegant and pretty. Her overall styling during that period, and into the 80s and 90s, was mostly on point. The last 20 years of so has been a bit more dodgy - coinciding with her time with Ernst, but I'm not certain that really had anything to do with it.

How lucky! Another compilation of Caroline's fashion sense. Some repeats of OP's link but lots of new ones!

Caroline didn’t have Alopecia. Everyone thought that at the time because she suddenly turned up bald. She later said she had breast cancer and went through chemo but did so privately.

Not very stylish. But well groomed and attractive. Even now as matron, she's well put together.

I always thought Caroline was so chic and sophisticated, a classic European beauty. However, I thought her wedding dress and veil when she married Junot made her look like some sort milk maid on the farm.

Here she is less formally attired in her second marriage to Stefano Casiraghi:

Caroline and Stefano...a night on the town.

Caroline and Stefano...a night out looking chic.

Looking very regal...

In the kitchen...

She was a beauty.

Caroline young and chic

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Lovely

If she had so many costly outfits and clearly enjoyed looking amazing, why not go to the effort of having some laser treatments and Botox? She could easily hang on to her looks for another 10 years.

Stephanie

Charlene, Caroline, Albert

Charlene and Caroline

Caroline, Albert, Stephanie

Princess Caroline and Prince Ernst of Hanover

Caroline and her daughter with Ernst, Princess Alexandra

[quote] Why would simple "Highness" rank above "Serene Highness?"

Because it does. The origins of "Serene Highness" meant that the person was elevated above the rank of their birth. Highnesses were usually born to that rank or married to it. In the days before the unification of the German states, for a Royal Highness or Highness to marry a Serene Highness was often looked upon as the consolation prize for not snagging someone of the same rank. In some German courts even after the German empire was created at large gatherings of royalty, Serene Highnesses were kept in separate rooms from the more lofty guests which often kept married couples also separate. In certain countries, foreign ambassadors who were commoners in their home countries were given higher precedence than Serene Highnesses.

The Kaiser liked everyone to know their places and at grand dinner dances, certain individual musical pieces were designated throughout the night that no one less than a Royal Highness was allowed to dance. Highnesses, Serene Highnesses, and everyone else was required to stand on the sidelines and observe Kings, Queens, Emperors, Empresses, Imperial Highnesses and Royal Highnesses dancing.

Don't assume because a title sounds prettier than another or because it contains more words or letters that it should be a superior title. That is not how it works. In actuality, "Highness" existed first. Appending the words of "royal", "imperial", and "serene" came long after.

R168. That was my question you answered. Thank you for the explanation. Very informative.

[quote] Not to drag the Brits into it, but here's one of the very few photos of Diana and Caroline together. Why couldn't they have gotten a nice straight-on shot of the two beautiful princesses, blonde and brunette?

They barely knew each other and were only in the same place at the same time on a couple of occasions. Diana regarded Caroline as competition for attention and did not want to be around her if she could help it. For her part, Caroline barely thought of Diana at all. They had totally different interests and mixed in completely different circles.

What’s with Charlene and her shaved head?

Yes, r157. No-one disputes that. We can Google for ourselves.

Also yes, Charlotte became an even greater beauty.

Perhaps, at age 64 (will we still need her? Will we still feed her?) Caroline, like the rest of Christendom's women, realizes that she is no longer a vision in the male gaze, but rather just something that is mobile. So why not smoke, eschew makeup, and reject surgeries?

I disagree that Charlotte became a greater beauty. But certainly a beauty.

When he wasn't smiling (he smiled often) in photos, Stefano had that bland and nondescript Jared K. vibe.

Murdered at sea? It happens.

Footages from Grace's funeral

R174 You're right about the bland vibe. I could never quite put my finger on it. He seemed like a safe choice for Caroline at the time.

That funeral was so sad. I remember the dolorous French voice of the priest, praying for notre Praaancaaas Graahhhce. Rainier and Caroline looked utterly shattered.

It’s difficult for some people to believe, but some beautiful women don’t care about looking old. Especially the European ones. Jane Birkin, Julie Christie, Princess Caroline - they have a casual carelessness about it. You live your life, you get old. Why pretend otherwise?

Caroline was and is chic and sophisticated. Her choice to eschew plastic surgery only confirms it. She was also the most beautiful princess at the time, though unlike some mentioned here i preferred her in her 30s and 40s , where she lost some of her baby fat. She had the misfortune of peaking, fame wise, in the 80s, so there are a lot of photos of her in outfits that look horrible today but she still looks good.

Grace Kelly aged terribly. Remember that she died at 52.

Grace carried a little extra weight but otherwise looked fine.

I just roll my eyes and say GURL PLEASE whenever any of these human ticks say shit like "I wasn't allowed to share as an adult with my friends" or "She wasn't allowed to continue acting." You do it. You say fuck the titles or fuck this marriage. You threaten to raise such a stink that the Grimaldis will be living in a backstreet flat in Marseilles from all the bad press. Please. Spare me your sob stories.

R177, Euro men, as well! See: Delon, Alain.

But I digress.

R11 To answer your question, were Hanover still a kingdom, Caroline’s husband would be king and she queen. Bismarck saw to it that Hanover ceased to exist as anything but a place in Germany..

R180 You’re right of course, but it wasn’t that simple. For Grace to continue her acting career against Ranier’s wishes she’d have had to walk away from her marriage and this would have meant walking away from her children. Grace had no parental rights beyond what Ranier granted her.

I also miss the antics of the Sunny Place for Shady People royal family. So delightfully trashy! Many years ago Prince Albert declared he was committed to rooting out corruption in Monaco, where money-laundering, tax dodging, drug dealers and the mafia hold court: He said he intended to place "morality, honesty and ethics" at the heart of his new government's concerns.

Now why would he want to do that? Who needs another Swedish royal family?? Unfortunately Monaco is still completely corrupt but the royal family is boring. It's all up to Britain now!

Why do you people care so much about this daughter of a movie star from a tinpot principality?

I love the kitchen family photo when her children were young. Giving me Cambridge family vibes. See? It's all been done before. Even the exiled Windsor grifters.

Is Stepfanie still a coke whore?

Stephanie always gave me leb vibes. Very attractive but androgynous. Is she in a relationship? Surely she is not still with the circus guy.

Prince Albert is richer than Queen Elizabeth.

Is this true R189?

[quote]R183 For Grace to continue her acting career against Ranier’s wishes she’d have had to walk away from her marriage

Mmmmm.... there was great local outcry, but she could have packed a bag and gone off to shoot for the summer ( or whenever it was.)

I quite doubt he’d have divorced her. More likely he’d have followed her with the kids, as originally planned.

^^ re: “”Marnie”

You have to remember, in the pre-feminist 1950s, a proper woman was supposed to give up her career and devote her time to her husband and children, especially among the idle rich, upper crust, aristocratic families. You become one of those ladies who lunch, who spend their time attending social functions and raising funds for their pet projects and causes. Actresses, especially those who continued working well into a marriage, were aberrations and not thought to be good wives and mothers. And if the marriage failed, she was blamed for choosing career over family.

Yes, all true. But she was an Academy Award winning actress who’d fucked her way from Manhattan to Hollywood, and brought a million dollar dowry into that marriage. She held a bunch of cards she didn’t play.

However, it’s a bit crazy that Hitchcock thought there wouldn’t be pushback about her playing a frigid kleptomaniac who gets raped onscreen!

I do like what she said when she left Hollywood:

[quote] I'll tell you one of the reasons I'm ready to leave. When I first came to Hollywood five years ago, my makeup call was at eight in the morning. On this movie, it's been put back to seven-thirty. Every day, I see Joan Crawford, who's been in makeup since five, and Loretta Young, who's been there since four in the morning. I'll be goddamned if I'm going to stay in a business where I have to get up earlier and earlier and it takes longer and longer for me to get in front of a camera.

R190 According to Business Insider, Prince Albert of Monaco is worth an estimated $1 billion and owns about a quarter of the land he reigns over, making the Monaco royal family one of the wealthiest in the world. For comparison, the Queen of England, Elizabeth II, is worth an estimated $500 million.

Caroline looks like a drinker like her mother and husband. That family has a lot of depressives including Caroline and Stephanie hence all the booze and drug use.

Look at this pic of a young Stefano Casiraghi, yum yum. Now I see where Charlotte gets those lips.

[quote]Stephanie always gave me leb vibes. Very attractive but androgynous.

I always found her very hefty, very Teutonic, something of a butch Hausfrau

I prefer Stéphanie

Caroline's daughter looks like her but much more beautiful. I'm so old I remember when Grace was desperately trying to land Prince Charles for Caroline. She sent her to boarding school in England in the hopes she'd hook up with the British royals.

That documentary was very interesting. I didn't know he'd participated in that. Thanks for sharing.