Quincy Jones says Elvis Presley was racist

Believable. Most white men in the 50s were racist.

Why would anyone be surprised a guy born in Tupelo was racist?

Totally believe it. Quincy has one foot in the grave and is telling it like it was!

Frank Sinatra was right about rock 'n' roll.

Is something messed up with how this was quoted? Elvis came in, and Tommy Dorsey said, "I don’t want to play with him." Then Quincy adds that (Elvis?) was "a racist motherfucker"? He offers no explanation why, nor why Tommy Dorsey doesn't want to play with Elvis?

Or is Quincy still quoting Tommy Dorsey, so that it was Tommy Dorsey telling Quincy that Elvis was racist? That makes more sense in the context, but if so, the reporter screwed up the quotation marks.

It makes it sound more like Tommy was the racist one but then why would he be talking to Quincy Jones?

There is nothing wrong with the quote. What Tommy said is in marks. After the mark it’s Quincy saying he was a racist motherfucker (speaking about Elvis).

He very clearly liked Tommy and was working with him in the 50s, so he isn’t who he is calling a racist.

Elvis who?

Costello, R8.

Jones is not saying anything people have not said in the past, but no one has provided anecdotal evidence of his racism. Is it because they felt he was appropriating Black music?

Jones' full quote is below.

I was writing for [orchestra leader] Tommy Dorsey, oh God, back then in the ’50s. And Elvis came in, and Tommy said, “I don’t want to play with him.” He was a racist mother — I’m going to shut up now. But every time I saw Elvis, he was being coached by [“Don’t Be Cruel” songwriter] Otis Blackwell, telling him how to sing. [Blackwell told David Letterman in 1987 that he and Presley had never met.]

Americans have a lot of class issues to deal with regarding racism. It's easier to attack someone who was raised poor for not knowing any better than it is for someone who actually has the power and privilege to hurt people.

Americans have a lot of class issues to deal with regarding racism. It's easier to attack someone who was raised poor for not knowing any better than it is to attack someone who actually has the power and privilege to hurt people.

White guy born and raised in the deep south in the '40s and '50s was racist! Film at 11.

And hard-core fans of Elvis say, “I know!”

An inbred hillbilly from the South, probably mostly illiterate, racist? WTF! LOL.

Quincy gives the best interviews. Amazing career. Didn't he out a couple of stars in a recent interview? I remember Richard Pryor, but who else?

Quincy just doesn’t care anymore.

Quincy needs a book deal with a very good and thorough writer / researcher. I don't buy many books, but that is one book I'd be tempted to buy.

I once sang “In the Ghetto” as if I were a lottery winner on ecstasy at a karaoke night. After I was done the host said “dude, you’re sick”. I was high as fuck.

Elvis was PWT , what do you expect ??

Oh, piss off R4. Frank Sinatra wasn't right about anything. Every negative thing he said about Rock N Roll was pure projection. And given that he was a homophobic asshole himself he certainly wasn't in a position to play morality policeman.

The famous Elvis quote that I used to hear was that the only thing a black person could do for him was to shine his shoes.

R21 weren’t most people who weren’t gay homophobic then? I mean let’s be real.

Oh what a shocker! Said No one! Of course Elvis was racist! This is well known.

[quote]The famous Elvis quote that I used to hear was that the only thing a black person could do for him was to shine his shoes.

Snopes.com breaks down that rumor.

Yes, Quincy Jones needs to spill it all NOW. He's not going to live forever and he's our emissary from a lost world of giants.

I know, MARY.

Presley told the audience he smelled green peppers and onions and that the Sweet Inspirations (black backup singers) had probably been eating catfish. While some people believed Presley intended it as a racial slur, two of the girls walked offstage because of the hostile vibes.

I wouldn't be surprised Sinatra was homophobic. I mean who wasn't. But the only anecdotal evidence I've heard was that he had Clift thrown out of a party at his house because he was coming on to a male guest. Had he been coming on to a woman Sinatra probably would have just told him to cool it.

Elvis wouldn’t eat pussy, either.

Or so I’ve heard. Was it Cybill Shepherd who said that?

Next you'll try to tell us is that Liberace was gay.

Oral sex wasn’t popular then like it became later. But you all don’t wNna admit that

Bill Clinton was poor & white, growing up in the south. No one has accused him of being racist. Clinton is about ten years younger than Elvis.

The more I learn about Elvis, the more I dislike him.

Almost everyone was homophobic in the 40s and 50s (and 60s and 70s and 80s and 90s and early 00s)

Why is r28 acting like that would be shocking?

can we talk about how fucking handsome Quincy was in his younger days? 1 of the best looking guys in the music biz ever

He was gorgeous.

Is Rashida his daughter or James Earl?

I heard this story and I was all shook up.

I thought elvis was best friends with a black boy when he was a kid?

I also thought elvis enjoyed going to black churches as a kid too, for the music?

Rashida is Quincey's daughter with Peggy Lipton.

Quincy already wrote a book but it was not very dishy. Not like the interviews he has been giving lately.

Elvis' standing in music history seems to lessen over the years. The more that comes out about him, the less he is revered.

I visited Graceland in 2015 and it wasn't very busy. Even the workers (most of whom were black by the way) told me that it only gets really busy during Elvis anniversaries).

Elvis did a lot of crappy movies and got into tacky deals because he allowed Colonel Tom Parker to run his career. Elvis didn't have much savviness in terms of running his own career. The '68 comeback special was one of the best things he did but I think that's because he decided he was going to do it. He should have gotten rid of Parker then but he kept him around until his death, and by then he was fat and full of pills.

Didn’t rashida and her sister try to get Quincy to not talk after he spilled a bunch of tea a few years ago?

He wrote an autobiography about 20 years ago, but it wasn’t as juicy as what he’s said over the last few years:

This is a good time to remember that QJ gave an interview a couple of years ago wherein he strongly hinted that (depending on how one reads the clues) either Michael Jackson or Prince had faked his death, was still alive in secret, etc. I suspect QJ either has dementia, or is just enjoying trolling people at this point.

To my knowledge, no one has ever produced any reliable accounts of Elvis being anything resembling a “racist mother******”.

Tommy Dorsey said, ‘I don’t want to play with him' because (as R27 tells us) he smelled of green peppers and onions.

Green peppers and onions are so smelly

R27 Why does that sentence have a “while”. Shouldn’t it be an “and”. While implies two thoughts in the opposite direction.

[quote] implies

This ancient anecdote sounds fishy with its implications and 'red herrings'.

We need Inspector Javert on this case!

At the time they were taking bets as to how many times Elvis spun in his grave when he became Micheal Jackson's father-in-law

R16 Richard Pryor and Marlon Brando

R34 When I watched his documentary a while back I was struck as to how handsome Quincy Jones was back in the day and I'm a Lesbian. He was one handsome man and has actually aged quite well. I'm from the Michael Jackson, "We Are The World"- type of generation with Quincy Jones by the way. No wonder Dinah Washington (good old gal that she was) hand picked him to produce one of her albums because he did so have the talent and looks.

Elvis has had his own mythology for ages and good for Quincy Jones for being honest. Elvis didn't downright grow up in a Church of God in Christ church in Memphis, TN or anything like that. He grew up in a highly segregated era and had hillbillies for parents. Perhaps he enjoyed a bit of blues. Perhaps he enjoyed a bit of proper gospel. But he was ultimately one of the first people to appropriate a culture which was not his own for material gain and nothing more. The person who was actually respectful towards Black American music and it's influence in their work was the late Teena Marie in my opinion.

I've lived over in Memphis for some time. Elvis missed the boat if you were to ask me. There's a very long history behind religions such as the Church of God in Christ here (think the Clark Sisters with that). And, a very very wee small part of their history is that they would have been decent towards a youth growing up in abject poverty regardless of their being PWT. Clinton (who was mentioned upthread) knew that and apparently his mother (if you all remember she did so live a rather full life one might say) didn't mind. How Clinton comported himself at Aretha Franklin's memorial and funeral service says it all, he even stood up and did a double take when the Clark Sisters started just fearlessly singing and wailing through "Is My Living in Vain."

Something’s strange about the QJ quote and that’s because Jimmy Dorsey had Elvis on his “Stage Show” tv program six times between January and March, 1956, nine months before he appeared on the Ed Sullivan show later in October of 1956.

Jimmy Dorsey and his co-host brother Tommy Dorsey wanted Elvis on the show to improve their ratings in the South where it was doing poorly. Presley’s appearances boosted the show’s popularity, making me wonder if Jimmy Dorsey said what Jones quoted him as saying because Dorsey thought Elvis was a racist or if it was meant to mollify Jones.

He quoted Tommy Dorsey r48, not Jimmy.

Oh, who gives a flying fuck?

I could not piece together what r27 was saying so I looked it up and found a better explanation:

[quote]For this tour, Elvis had a retinue of background singers in his band, including Kathy Westmoreland, who had sung with Elvis for six years, and a trio known as the Sweet Inspirations. Elvis and Westmoreland had had a long, burning romantic affair that went sour, and the King began to replace his witty stage patter with snide asides about his background singer. “She’ll take affection from anyone, anytime, anyplace,” he told one audience.

[quote]When the act came to Norfolk for two shows on July 20, 1975, he had a meltdown. During one point in the evening performance, according to United Press International, Elvis informed the audience that “he smelled green peppers and onions and that his backup singers, the Sweet Inspirations, had probably been eating catfish.”

[quote]Presley biographer Peter Guralnick: “Neither Kathy nor the Sweets knew exactly what he meant by the ‘catfish’ remark; none of them thought it was racial—they just knew it was hostile, and there was an ugly undertone not just to that comment but to his whole demeanor.”

[quote]When Estelle Brown, one of the Sweet Inspirations, hung her head, Elvis lashed out at her, and the rest of the band, saying, “If you don’t look up, I’m going to kick your ass.” Brown walked offstage as Elvis reportedly “glowered” at the rest of the singers. “Sorry for any embarrassment I might have caused. But if you can’t take the heat, get off the pot,” the King thundered as a restless murmur was heard from the crowd. Eventually, Sylvia Shemwell of the Inspirations walked off, and so did Kathy Westmoreland.

R41, do you have a link to that interview? I couldn't find anything about Q hinting that Prince and/or Michael Jackson faked their deaths.

[quote]Elvis wouldn’t eat pussy, either Or so I’ve heard. Was it Cybill Shepherd who said that?

Wouldn’t want to eat her box either. Cheryl would be repulsed.

Oh gawd. Enuf.

THIS is he QJ book that I would love to read.

QJ is an icon! Love him and totally believe him!

[quote]Is it because they felt he was appropriating Black music?

No, that bullshit wasn’t a thing back then. That’s just a stick that’s used to beat white people with and a recent fabrication.

Rock "music" doubled down on its homophobic douchebaggery after the cold-blooded murder of disco.

Let’s say everyone is racist so we can all move the fuck on.

I've seen no proof Elvis was racist. Just because a few people say he was doesn't mean anything. I think he is an easy target for such things because he was a Southern white man singing black music.

r19 Is there video? I wanna see it.

Elvis - maybe he was. I don't know. Ask The Sweet Inspirations.

That's because everybody is NOT racist, R59. That is a racist comment in and of itself. Racism equals power plus prejudice and only whites, heterosexuals, and gentiles have that kind of power.

This is why [italic]Avenue Q[/italic] is overrated and why Gary Coleman should have sued their asses for defamation of character.

Believable. About 99,98% of white trash are homophobic racists and Elvis Presley was white trash. Had Elvis lived today he would have been a huge Trump supporter.

Whiteness is racism by definition so I believe it.

Quincy Jones is a black racist. His family has had interventions with him to try and stop his bitter tirades in the press.

"Black racist" is just a PC way of using the N-word without actually using it.

Elvis was a racist, and the poster above who claims black people taking issue with white people taking their music is new doesn’t know shit. Black people took issue with Elvis back then the way black people take issue with Justin Timberlake or many white artists now.

R13- Lemons are sour and dwarfs are short- NEWS AT 11.

R68 OF COURSE, they did BUT that would take a fair amount of common sense that's sorely lacking in the Trump demographic.

Appropriation is a most ridiculous concept. Blacks took as much from whites as whites from black. All art forms nourish and feed the other stuff is going to be stolen and toes are going to be stepped on in the course of it. Gottschalk is considered to have planted the seeds of ragtime and jazz and he was of mixed race and much of his education was in Europe.

Old windbags who throw a deceased man under the bus in order to stay relevant do not impress me, regardless of their past achievements.

It wasn’t to stay relevant r72

He was just telling the truth during an interview. He didn’t go on social media and start rambling.

He even stopped himself from saying more.

[quote]Americans have a lot of class issues to deal with regarding racism. It's easier to attack someone who was raised poor for not knowing any better than it is for someone who actually has the power and privilege to hurt people.

Christ, fuck off. Eric Clapton is also a racist prick. Most of these fucking assholes who wouldn't know shit about good music if they didn't hear it from black people, are racist pricks.

[quote]Blacks took as much from whites as whites from black.

What did black people take and then become exceedingly wealthy and famous from that came from white people? Elvis is called the "King of Rock n' Roll" for a type of music he had nothing to do with discovering, yet he is the face of it.

Why would anyone be surprised to hear that Elvis was a racist? He was born in the American south and the US has always been a racist country.

[quote] Appropriation is a most ridiculous concept. Blacks took as much from whites as whites from black. All art forms nourish and feed the other stuff is going to be stolen and toes are going to be stepped on in the course of it. Gottschalk is considered to have planted the seeds of ragtime and jazz and he was of mixed race and much of his education was in Europe.

Regardless of which way the relationship works. Whites gives themselves 100% of the credit, take ownership and reap all of the rewards, financial or otherwise.

In the David Bowie MTV interview, Dataloungers rushed in to tell us that white supremacist racism didn’t exist in the 1980s and did not impact the cable television network. In this thread Dataloungers have rushed in to tell us that white supremacist racism also didn’t exist in the decades before. Or it only existed among impoverished whites.

Then in the “critical race theory” thread, Dataloungers are arguing that the goal of “critical race theory” is to distort and pervert historical truth.

Some of you guys have your heads so so far up your own asses and you are utterly clueless.

You sound pretty clueless yourself R77. Whites also stole credit from each other if they had the opportunity! And what about appropriation from the Jews? It's always a case of who has the power. But if it weren't for western music there would be no jazz which builds on it!

R78, I asked a question. Answer it: What did black people take and then become exceedingly wealthy and famous from that came from white people?

R77 is SPOT THE FUCK ON.

He used to beat up Peggy Lipton when they were married. NOT a fan.

You a John Lennon fan, R81?

[quote] You sound pretty clueless yourself [R77]. Whites also stole credit from each other if they had the opportunity! And what about appropriation from the Jews? It's always a case of who has the power. But if it weren't for western music there would be no jazz which builds on it!

what·a·bout·ism

/ˌ(h)wədəˈboudizəm/

nounBRITISH

the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.

[quote] What did black people take and then become exceedingly wealthy and famous from that came from white people?

The catfish remark wasn't racist. Elvis had rules for everyone in his circle including what they could wear and what they could eat. Elvis hated fish and if he smelled it on someone they were banished. In a book written by his secretary she said Priscilla would sneak tuna sandwiches and then have the secretary sniff her to make sure it couldn't be detected. Elvis was a very strange man.

I agree with Elvis. Fish is SO stinky.

Not real fish but that awful canned stuff with fake 'flavour enhancers'.

Nope.

*Sigh.* All we want to do these dabs is tear everything and everybody down.

imagine a while guy born in 1935 Mississippi being a tad racist.

I was shocked at what Elizabeth Taylor said in that movie Raintree Country in 1957.

She was acting. That wasn’t her herself. Liz wasn’t racist nor homophobic

Well, the words came out of her mouth. A genuine person of principle would never allow such things to be uttered!

Elvis was transblack.

R77 is right

Why don't you answer his question R71? What have Black folks appropriated from White people and been praised after claiming it as their own and awarded millions of dollars after the theft?

It's funny how all you losers wanna question Mr. Jones and try to demean him for speaking his truth, whereas if a White man says anything about somebody Black you White Queens run with that shit like its the Gospel!

Mr. Jones has the right to say whatever the hell he wants about whomever he wants.

Elvis aint a god or I'm sure he would not have been caught wearing that unfortunate white jumpsuit. LOL

Quincy must speak his truth!

Elvis must speak his truth!

Elvis has no truth. All he has is misappropriation. Besides dead men tell no tales. He'll now have to whisper his ignorant racist thoughts from the graveyard! LOL

I don't think there's anything funnier than that picture of Nixon and Elvis where that fat fuck druggie tried getting a Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs badge.

'If it weren't for western music there would be no jazz which builds on it!' as I said.

All music that makes people rich today is built using the instruments and notation of European music. If you do not know this then there is no explaining it to you. Elitism is to thank for so much that we appreciate today. An inconvenient truth that some of you absolutely refuse to believe. Not everything about elitism is wrong. And god knows I'm as far away from a member of the elite as you can get. It's like you people know nothing about cultural history and its complexities. Fine go back to sleep and stew in your own broth of narrow-mindedness.

There are times when I think that people go a little bit overboard with this cultural appropriation stuff; but, on the other hand, you would think that a message forum populated by gay men could understand why a minority group might be a little ticked that something they created, worked on and developed was taken over by someone in the majority and then that someone in the majority made it mainstream and made a fucking fortune on it.

I'm not asking anyone to like anyone that they don't want to like, but you should at the very least be able to connect some very basic dots with some of this stuff.

Not this stupid fucking racist bullshit again.

'why a minority group might be a little ticked that something they created, worked on and developed was taken over by someone in the majority and then that someone in the majority made it mainstream and made a fucking fortune on it.'

Yeah like just about the entire history of art and technology. Sometimes it takes one person like an Elvis to synthesize all the elements that came before him and spin it into gold due to the social and economic norms of a moment in time. It's shitty and what is anybody going to do about it?

[quote]All music that makes people rich today is built using the instruments and notation of European music. If you do not know this then there is no explaining it to you.

Jesus, are you fucking stupid. Truly stupid and limited.

No, I'm 81. not a John Lennon fan either, 82. He treated Cynthia very badly and simply ignored poor Sean most of the time. Him and Yoko deserved each other.

^^^. Oopsie...the above was meant as a reply for 82 and I'm poster 81 Not 81 years old.

LOL, R104. You were replying to me and I did have to read that twice and then realized you just forgot the "R."

Thank.s, r104. It's so long since I replied to anybody I'd completely forgotten the needed R

Even if you were actually 81, you'd still be on the younger side around here.

X was a racist and I, not being white, am lily pure.

Now say it a thousand times we you have the world today.

R102 I said you were incredibly narrow-minded. Fine go ahead and throw around the word stupid as that is the extent of your discursive skills.

R109, you claimed everyone getting rich today was doing so off of European instruments and music. What did that even mean? What instrument? The guitar alone is not originally from Europe. And certain singing styles adopted by people like Whitney Houston can be traced to the Middle East - Melisma is not "European."

Quincy Jones is racist. Everybody is.

Correction: I meant to say Whitney's Melismatic style was not European.

[quote]And his wife is a bitch which I know from people who had to deal with her

Diane Krall or whatever her name is? Always thought she was a lesbian. DK is Costello's THIRD wife.

Didn't Costello have cancer a few years ago?

Obviously Quincy was talking about Elvis Presley, he mentioned the 1950s.

I don't believe him. Elvis has lots of black black up singers who all said he was nice and treated them well.

Elvis also had a cook who was black and she worked for him for decades, Elvis bought her a house (!!!) And even paid the property taxes for the first year.

Now, would a racist do that?

*had

New keyboard

You don't how racism works, do you R114?

Elvis was very religious, he loved gospel music and that was his favorite thing to do, play and sing gospel music on his piano at home.

He loved reading the bible and he treated everyone with kindness and respect, love thy neighbor and all that etc...

Yes, he fucked around a lot but many of those girlfriends said he loved reading the bible and discussing it with them etc.

[quote]Believable. Most white men have always been racist.

Fixed that for you.

"All music that makes people rich today is built using the instruments and notation of European music."

That's a damn lie! It is well documented that the first people were born in Africa. Any fool knows music is generated by a series of sounds. Are you saying the world waited thousands of years - for Europeans to determine that stringing a series of sounds together can be entertaining? Get the fuck outta here!

I never thought I'd be saying this, but thank goodness for the internet! Up until now future generations have had to rely on "history" books written by the majority and they were able to craft a "story" allowing them to lie to maintain power and social relevance. Now future generations will be able to see your bullshit for what it is!

Got a link to back up any of what you're saying, r119? I mean, a credible link with references to credible sources, not the usual made-up bullshit one finds on the internet.

african music

Would be interesting to know when that recording was made, who the performers are, what region it's from, what was the occasion for the recording and whether this is some kind of generic "African" music (it's a large continent) or whether it's for a special purpose.

European music

European music

Beethoven invented ragtime.

This one climaxes in a polyphonic gallop.

He also called The Beatles the worst musicians he ever heard.

Elvis was unattractive, reportedly a lousy lay and got fat. I prefer Rick Nelson. He was fuckable.

Basketball, R93!

Petula Clark and Karen Carpenter turned down a chance for a three-way with him.

You should call people out while they are still alive and able to defend themselves. How can we know if this is true or not really. I think cancelling dead people is going a step too far and is problematic.

His claims that Michael Jackson was a plagiarist are also questionable. At what point does this song sound like "Billie Jean"?

Just saying someone was racist without providing proof is despicable. The Dorseys and the other Big Band leaders were themselves called racist for “stealing” jazz and would have a reason to hate Elvis as they saw rock & roll was going to eclipse them.

It is wrong to say R&R was stolen from black people, from the beginning R&R was a combination of R&B, Country, and Black AND white Gospel. It was basically all the predominant native music of the South coming together to create a new unique sound. Many of the earliest record labels that started R&R, were companies that had “Hillbilly” and “Race” record divisions that many times recorded the same songs and even used the same backing musicians. For instance the same record label in the 1950s had both James Brown and Little Jimmy Dickens and would record their records in the same studio with some of the same musicians. It is natural that in such an environment there would be cross pollination and experimentation.

It is known Elvis had black friends including James Brown and Sammy Davis Jr. He also was apparently not homophobic as he was friends with Liberace. He randomly bought a black woman a car, when he saw her looking through the window at a dealership. That isn’t something a rabid racist would do. And there are many stories of him doing things like that for random strangers of all stripes.

People also fail to understand, because history is written from a middle class perspective, that even during Jim Crow there was a lot of racial mixing going on among the poor, especially the rural poor. The KKK for instance was until the 1950/60s was seen as a middle and upper class group. I had poor white family members that during the 1930s-50s attended a black church and are buried in their cemetery. One of my great grandmother’s closest friends was a black lady that would come over and they’d have coffee together and listen to radio soaps in the 1950s. To just assume something based on a person’s race and when or where they come from is itself prejudiced.

Have you been to Graceland? Most of the employees are Black and the surrounding area is largely Black, too.

R120 I don't need to prove anything to you. If you understood history you would know that by every credible theory, Black people were first on earth and would have created language, music and all the basic life skills. Where is your proof for any of the bullshit you're spitting?

Those of you: 1) Questioning Quincy Jones only because he's a Black man. 2) Requiring proof beyond a reasonable doubt that this was said (when you wouldn't require this from a White Icon, yeah I said it QJ is an ICON)! 3) Saying QJ shoulda said something "then" (being oblivious to the era and ignoring that the racist pig probably woulda had him killed back in the day). Need to check your White Supremacy at the door and have several seats.

R133 that sounds like fantasy & projection onto someone you don't know. BTW who stole ANYTHING from "White Gospel?' Name one damn person! LOL

R125 you're not helping yourself their buddy. Check your history. Beethoven was a Black man. Since he's your standard, are you saying White folks stole from him too?

Accept it, Elvis was a racist mutha fucka! It was a different time period. You have the benefit of history and thus the opportunity to do better... will you?

[quote] Beethoven was a Black man.

Sie haben falsche Informationen.

What can you tell us about Elvis' cook, R114? Because I think I met his cook, or one of them, back in the 1980s.

R133 I didn't say anybody stole from white gospel because I don't believe anyone stole from any genre. It was a confluence. Elvis's backup group on most of his classic recordings from the 1950s was the Jordanaires, a white Southern Gospel Quartet. Later on, when he toured with the Sweet Inspirations as his female backup singers, The Stamps a male white Southern Gospel quartet were the male backup singers. Anytime backup singers are singing in four part harmony that comes from the Southern Gospel influence.

There was the famous Million Dollar Quartet recordings of Elvis, Johnny Cash, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Carl Perkins that clearly shows the gospel influences on the four of them.

He wouldn't fuck trans women so he's a TERF!

Priscilla must be a tranny by now.

What did she transition into, R140, an alien from outer space?

[quote]Oral sex wasn’t popular then like it became later.

People didn't bathe regularly, and lots of guys were uncut. Things were pretty musty and gross "down there."

[quote]Elvis did a lot of crappy movies and got into tacky deals because he allowed Colonel Tom Parker to run his career. Elvis didn't have much savviness in terms of running his own career. The '68 comeback special was one of the best things he did but I think that's because he decided he was going to do it. He should have gotten rid of Parker then but he kept him around until his death, and by then he was fat and full of pills.

Nobody could figure out why Elvis kept Parker as his manager. His career could've been so much better in the 60s, but Parker had him doing those awful movies and stupid songs. Elvis could've signed with any of the top-tier management companies in LA in two seconds if he'd wanted to.

Tom Parker and the Memphis Mafia were enablers, plain and simple.

[quote] Nobody could figure out why Elvis kept Parker as his manager.

We'll soon find out when the ghastly Baz Luhrmann releases his latest horrow-show to us.

He never meant SHIT to me

R138 you specifically said: "It is wrong to say R&R was stolen from black people, from the beginning R&R was a combination of R&B, Country, and Black AND white Gospel."

That's a crock of shit. R&R had nothing to do with "White Gospel." Black Gospel (which CLEARLY influenced R&R) sounds NOTHING like White Gospel. Country also is a VERY DIFFERENT sound.

R&R sounds a lot like Black Gospel and R&B than anything else. You may not want to admit it, but that is the truth!

Muthafuck him and John Wayne!

Fuck these homophobic "str8" Black male rappers and their toxic masculinity bullshit.

And fuck the racist pieces of shit who refuse to see the homophobia from their own race.

Like who, R150, the same people in California who voted for Obama and against gay marriage in 2008?

White gays never cite white homophobes when airing their grievances.

Tbh, Elvis probably was racist. He admired black musicians and imitated them but he wasn't the first to do so (Sinatra, Bing, Dean Martin, most white jazz and blues artists, etc). Black music, slang and culture was always a source of inspiration for white people even back in the segregation days. Elvis did name his influences like Chubby Checker and Fats Domino but that doesn't mean he was an anti-racist progressive. Elvis could have used his platform to fight for the rights of African-Americans during the early 1960s especially in wave of all the violence and turmoil of the Civil Rights Movement. The fact he was profiting off of Black music yet didn't stand up for Blacks just left a bad taste in people's mouths. Most hardcore Elvis fans are usually white people who seem ignorant of great Black musicians like Chuck Berry, Lightning Hopkins, Robert Johnson, Frankie Lymon and Howlin' Wolf.

The Beatles who were also influenced by African-American music were vocal in being appalled by segregation and racism in The US and refused to play in areas that were segregated. They were such fanboys of blues and rhythm and blues artists like Chuck Berry and Little Richard.

And Elvis was not a creative genius like Quincy Jones was. Elvis was a good-looking young white kid who could sing and dance like he was Black and thus was used a tool to market rhythm & blues to white audiences. Re-dubbing it as "rock and roll". Elvis's look was copied from Marlon Brando and James Dean. Elvis' sound was created by his guitarist Scotty Moore who mixed rhythm and blues with country. Elvis was a manufactured pop star to appeal to young teens. He was an uneducated hick with a great voice and stage presence and was polite and non-threatening. The "King of Rock" label is a misnomer.

[quote] Black music, slang and culture was always a source of inspiration for white people

This is true, from the olden days all the way up to recent times with people like Miley Cyrus appropriating twerking - something black girls have been doing for decades - and making it a worldwide phenomenon.

Elvis was certainly creative and extremely talented. You don't get to be a huge icon like him with no talent. Especially back then.

What exactly did Elvis do creatively? He didn't write his songs. He didn't play an instrument proficiently. He could sing well but anyone can sing well with discipline and practice. His dancing was taken from Black artists who did it better than him. And the industry back then, very much did manufacture their stars and the smoke and mirrors was always a thing. If Elvis was ugly, he would not have become as huge an icon as he became.

[quote]He didn't write his songs. He didn't play an instrument proficiently.

Do you know how many great artists never wrote songs or played an instrument?

[quote]If Elvis was ugly, he would not have become as huge an icon as he became.

Who would?

Elvis was probably racist in today's terms simply because he grew up and lived in an era in which casual racism, grievances from the civil war and bigoted stereotypes were the norm. It would not be surprising to learn that he held some superficial racist attitudes and used language that today would not be used. That doesn't mean he was an active racist or hated black people.

As much of a talent as Quincy Jones is as a producer, Elvis as a singer and interpreter reached divine heights, in my opinion. It's a crying shame that his career was derailed and then, as he seemed to be getting back on track, he died.

R156, Luciano Pavarotti didn't write his own songs and it's hard to reach the heights he did just with discipline and practice.

Saying Elvis or whichever early rock and roll singer just stole from the blacks is a lazy cliche. A lot of early rock and roll was written by the white Jews Leiber and Stoller. The white Jew Phil Spector made Ike and Tina Turner famous. Spanish Harlem was written by Leiber and Spector. Strange Fruit by Billy Holiday was written by the white Jewish communist Abel Meeropol.

Some will probably say the Jews were stealing from the blacks too, but there was a lot of fusion going on. Black musicians were greatly influenced by white musical forms too.

Quincy Jones is full of shit. I don’t believe 99.9% of what he says. Talking about dead people who can no longer speak for themselves is bottom feeder shit.

Quincy is a fucking liar. This old fool also claims he dated Ivanka.

Quincy is a music industry legend who knew all these people. R162 is a poster on an anonymous Internet forum. On which of the two’s word weighs heaviest, I’m going with the Quincy.

R164 is unaware that Quincy was panned for those interviews and even retracted some of what he said. R164 also believes that Quincy Jones (88) dated Ivanka Trump (39).

I for one am sick of this senile blabbermouth and his "revelations." He's had a great career; now he needs to shut up.

R153 that was incredibly well said!

R167 no it wasn't!

Someone who praises both the Beatles and Quincy Jones's opinions at the same time must be really confused, considering that Quincy panned the Beatles.

The Elvis fans getting triggered and missing the point. Elvis was talented but not legendary and the more time goes on. The more obvious you see how his stardom was from the massive media push and novelty favor of a white boy sounding black. It's not the issue he didn't write or play songs but the fact he was given credit for things he didn't originate. Scotty Moore who is white was the pioneer of the late 50s rock n roll sound. Brando was the originator of Elvis' look. Sister Rosetta Thorpe originally sang Hound Dog and her rendition was much more poignant. Chuck Berry and Little Richard were far more talented but their race held them back from reaching greater popularity. To ignore that there was a double standard back then is dishonest.

Rock n roll was commercial pop music that was based on rhythm and blues, a traditionally Black genre dubbed "race music" by the radio. White rock n rollers and the industry profited off of a genre that had origin from Black artists. Elvis was just a vessel for the songwriters and producers to market this sound to white teenagers who may have liked rhythm and blues but their racist parents would not permit them to listen to it.

R170 and r171 repeating cliches without ever having listened to the music. Truly missing the point.

"White Jew" is a racial slur:

The Black people who knew him admired him very much. They felt his appreciation of Black music and people was sincere, and that he was nothing but a gentleman in his interactions with them.

Not all Blacks believed he was racist.

R170 and R171 are 100% accurate. Elvis's con was that he was a good looking kid who sounded Black. That was his claim to fame.

But he wasn't the first or the last White person to steal from Black people. Of course it hurts some White folks sensibilities that Black folks have contributed many things to America that have benefitted White people. But it hurts some White folks even more that White people have a long history of stealing from Black folks [No wonder y'all don't wanna admit that Elvis was a racist thief]! But we can save all that for another day.

Suffice to say, Elvis took full advantage of his position as a White man to imitate Black art. He knew his White privilege would allow him to be played on every radio station, his records to be sold in all the stores and for him to perform in any venue. It's easy to be successful when can just steal the artform of your significantly handicapped competition!

R175, when was the last time you listened to Elvis? How familiar are you with the music of that era? Are you aware that Elvis was actually censored by the media?

You sound like another clueless fuck repeating the same, tired, regurgitated ignorant bullshit.

I really don't think these haters have ever listened to Elvis or watched him perform live. He was an insanely good live performer, one of the best of all time. He had that X Factor that just happens with some people.

To R174 's point: Over 30 years ago I met an old woman at a nursing home I was visiting who very casually mentioned she was Elvis' cook. I used to make it a point to see her not because of who she was but because she was so colorful, and in fact had no idea until one day she was prompted by an ad playing on the TV in front of us for an Elvis movie. "Really?!", I asked. Oh yes, she said. She said he loved her cooking which he got to know during his visits to the large, "plantation" gatherings in which there was a lot of cooking and music making. She said Elvis would travel around to these events and made himself known by his passion for their music and by his own playing. "Willie," he said, "I'm rising and someday I'm gonna hire you as my cook", which he did, she said, and went on to talk about those years a bit. Elvis' mother was a "good-time Charlie", she said, who loved to play cards and bowl. Elvis' behavior eventually became erratic and worrisome, she said, and when one day she found empty vials in his bedroom and took them to his mother, Elvis was confronted, with the result that there was a huge, profane blow-up at both of the women, prompting Willie to quit and I think she said the mother move out as well. She had never heard him speak this way before and was having none of it. She seemed to hold no resentments, however, and had only good things to say about pre-drugs Elvis and his music. I could never verify if this woman really worked for Elvis or not but she seemed like the kind of person for whom lying would be well beneath her dignity.

R176 and R177 I am very familiar with the music Elvis performed and I have seen him in movies and I was not impressed. The Black performers of his era sang and danced circles around him. And most White performers were far more talented than Elvis!

[quote] I really don't think these haters have ever listened to Elvis or watched him perform live. He was an insanely good live performer, one of the best of all time. He had that X Factor that just happens with some people.

I've listened to him. I am not saying Elvis was not extremely talented. But he was a performer. Just that. Not a groundbreaking artist. In order to be an artist you must be able to create on your own. As I've repeated in this thread for the umpteenth time. It was Scotty Moore, a white guitarist who pioneered the rock n roll sound through fusing rhythm and blues, folk and country music. Elvis was just the mouthpiece for other talent. Yes, he had an amazing and resonant voice and could perform his ass off but he was just became the major face of a musical shift. Jerry Lee Lewis and Buddy Holly, also white, were big pioneers who played instruments. Chuck Berry wrote majority of his material and was a phenomenal guitarist, he is the only true contender for King Of Rock just by the breadth of his influence and talent. Bo Diddley and Little Richard wrote their music and Bo had a big impact on the sound of Southern rhythm and blues with his guitar. Let's not mention others like Ray Charles and James Brown who were also hugely influential on rock music.

But Elvis has that something that made him a huge star. That can't be manufactured, and the public ultimately decides.

r180 nobody said Elvis invented rock and roll, that's ridiculous. And he was not a mouthpiece for other talent. Many great artists never wrote any songs or played any instruments. Elvis certainly had organic talent.

When I was a kid I used to argue with my friend who was better, Elvis or Johnny Cash. I preferred Cash.

[quote] But Elvis has that something that made him a huge star. That can't be manufactured, and the public ultimately decides.

The public does decide but the industry also decides who to sign on and push through a very strict selection process. Elvis would not have gotten signed on if he wasn't marketable and attractive to young teenage demographic they wanted to appeal to.

[quote] And he was not a mouthpiece for other talent. Many great artists never wrote any songs or played any instruments. Elvis certainly had organic talent.

To be an artist is to be able to create something that is original to you via songwriting, playing an instrument or arranging the sounds. People who are only singing are mouthpieces for others unless they interpret the song differently. Many jazz and blues singers use vocal improvisations. Elvis didn't have much artistry, he let others control his career. Many people are talented and many people can sing and dance yet they are not famous.

[quote]To be an artist is to be able to create something that is original to you via songwriting, playing an instrument or arranging the sounds.

That's only your opinion, and it's wrong. Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday and many others are universally acclaimed as great musical artists. They never wrote or played.

[quote]Elvis didn't have much artistry, he let others control his career.

Do you really know anything about Elvis, as far as his singing? That was his own technique, It was natural and nobody told him how to do it. His songs and movies were controlled by others, unfortunately. That's true. The one time he put his foot down with Col. Parker was the '68 special. Parker wanted him to do a Christmas show and Elvis refused. The whole '68 special was his idea it's one of the most legendary of all time.

R179, everyone knows Elvis's movies were shit and his crazy artistic gift was fucked up by his greedy manager. 1950s and 1970s Elvis was a god artistically, 1960s Elvis until 1968 far less so.

According to r180, Luciana Pavarotti was just a performer and not a ground-breaking artist. In fact, every classical musician is just a performer, not an artist.

Maria Callas, just a talented performer, no artistic creativity, doesn't shake you to your very soul.

Judy Garland never wrote a song or played an instrument. You can be an icon and do neither.

I’m not sure if the poster who sai only whites can be racist was for real. Tell that to the next elderly Asian woman who gets knocked down by a black male.

Racism involves holding power over the minority, the kind of power that can be systematically woven into the pattern of society and last for decades. Black people do not have that kind of power over white people.

They do if white people are listening to their music no matter who’s performing it. You’re defining power as only financial.

Cultural reach has more power and influence. Black music’s “soft power” is seen and heard worldwide.

You’re clueless if you only think I’m talking about financial. Systemic racism is woven throughout the justice and healthcare systems too, genius.

Elvis was not an artist. He was influential as a performer and style icon. He had a distinctive and charismatic voice but he wasn't anymore talented than Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, James Brown or Johnny Cash. All of whom are still cited as major influences for many young musicians. Elvis really didn't deserve to be elevated as high as he is. It's not just about race (though it certainly plays a role). It's about him getting credit for starting a movement when he didn't.

[quote] Black people do not have that kind of power over white people.

Well, I'm a peon compared to this billionaires who lives in a gated Montecito mansion, R190

^ I wouldn't be allowed to sleep in their chauffeurs' servant's garage.

R132 Agreed. Just listened to it and found zero similarities. Quincy is full of fucking shit.

[quote] It's about him getting credit for starting a movement when he didn't.

Nobody has ever claimed Elvis started rock and roll, that's ridiculous. He was a huge breakout star of the genre and made it much more popular, though.

Tommy Dorsey was part of the big band era and some of the most popular big bands from the 1940s on were integrated. All those bands traveled around the country to segregated nightclub venues, so they struggled with housing black band members. White bandleaders or influential singers like Sinatra would push to integrate venues. Big bands had a lot of jazz musicians in them, so they had a lot of black musicians as guest stars or as part of the band, like Lionel Hampton, who was with the Benny Goodman quartet. Hampton also worked with Quincey Jones.

That’s really different from the segregated early rock and roll days, when a black singer would popularize a song, then a white singer would copycat record a white version, and that version would get all the airplay and be a hit.

Tommy Dorsey and his brother Jimmy had an early television show, “Stage Show,” and they introduced Elvis Presley by having him on their show six times starting in January 1956, before he was on Ed Sullivan’s show. Tommy Dorsey died in November 1956, so that’s the time frame that conversation took place. Dorsey had worked with Elvis multiple times within the year of that conversation.

Should we cancel Elvis for being a pedo or a racist?

This very old man seems to be reminiscing over a seven-word sentence uttered in the1950s.

I don't believe anything Quincy Jones says. He's not right in the head, and hasn't been for a long time.

"Elvis really didn't deserve to be elevated as high as he is. "

He certainly does. Why do you think he was called "The King of Rock and Roll?" He was, at his best, an incredible performer.

R147 the early white rock and rollers such as Elvis, were specifically called rockabilly singers because it was connected to country. The Rock & Roll hall of fame includes numerous Country performers under their early influences inductions, including the very first early influence inductee Jimmie Rodgers, as well as Hank Williams Sr., Bill Monroe, and Bob Wills and his Texas Playboys. In addition some of the regular inductees that had Country, as well as R&R, careers include Elvis, Bill Haley, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, The Everly Brothers, Roy Orbison, Carl Perkins, Johnny Cash, the Eagles, Gene Vincent, and Brenda Lee, not to mention ones such as the Byrds and Bob Dillon among others that played around with genre and created the Country Rock and Southern Rock genres, and pure folk singers who are much closer to Country in sound than R&B.

And, as I stated white gospel played a part because all those people were influenced by them, as evidenced by the fact that they specifically used Southern Gospel quartets such as the Jordonaires, The Blackwood Brothers, and the Stamps or members of those groups as their backup singers. Also, if Country played a role, as anyone knowledgeable about the history of R&R agrees they did, Southern Gospel played a role because Country and Southern Gospel are linked at the hip, just as R&B and Black Gospel is. The only real reason for a separation was that record companies segregated albums by race at the time. Secular Country and R&B, along with their sacred Gospel sisters are all kissing cousins that together, along with pop, produced R&R.

I am tired of race essentialists that cannot accept that one group or race didn’t fully invent something. Rock and Roll, like almost every cultural product of America, is the baby of many different mothers and fathers and mixing in the melting pot of the USA. Black and White, native and immigrant, Christian and Jewish, all had a hand in Rock And Roll.

The Beach Boys stole more from Chuck Berry than Elvis ever did. And a court proved it.

All non-Black races collectively benefit from anti-Black racism simply by not being Black.

We're not giving Elvis credit for starting a "movement" (i.e. musical genre) that he didn't invent and which no single individual artist or race invented, but for being an electrifying artist - so electrifying that he was one of those rare artists who changed culture.

And, please, the irony of people trying to play down Elvis's achievements on the basis of some bullshit from Quincy Jones - someone whose fame is all from riding on the backs of others and who inflates his own contribution to popular culture to the most ludicrous degree.

Hard as this may be for some of you to swallow, rock and roll is probably as much or more a product of the white country and traditional folk music tradition than it was of black musical forms. Which is why rock has mostly been a white genre played by white boys and loved mostly by whites. Yes, blues and a very small number of black artists like Chuck Berry (who grew up in a middle-class household where classical music was played) and Little Richard, but they were an influence on and were also influenced by. And Chuck Berry and Little Richard are very different from Elvis and from each other. Even blues was a very different musical form when Elvis started performing from what it later came to be, and was itself influenced by rock and roll.

Since none of his claims seem to match real life, we can all safely assume that Quincy is full of fucking shit. THREAD CLOSED

He needs to seriously write a tell all before he dies, expose everybody. And someone tell his talentless daughter to stfu.

Elvis went to many black Baptist churches in the south to hear their singing. His mother was actually Jewish (obviously, non-practicing, and her tombstone has a cross and Star of David on it) and usually accompanied him to the churches. I'd be surprised if he was racist, but maybe he said some racist things? Who knows. Quincy dated Ivanka Trump for a bit so I'm disgusted by him already.

The music of the American South was also heavily influenced by Scots-Irish folk music.

Which was influenced by the Italian baroque.

Yes R205. Collectively, and Individually!