Lana Turner

What is there to get? She's dead.

OP- Being a homosexual you have to have loved the movie Imitation Of Life (1959). It was a FABULOUS melodrama starring Lana Turner.

It's so refreshing to see real homos on DL. You go girl, OP!

Really? I'd've thought you'd have to be dead not to get the appeal here:

She was very photogenic and had a sympathetic screen image. Perfect for the 'women's pictures' she wisely chose to do. A real movie star.

There were two big reasons she was a star, OP, and here they are:

Bitch got all 10in of it.

Lana was a pretty limited talent, but she was brilliantly directed by Douglas Sirk in "Imitation of Life." And "Peyton Place" and "Madame X" are trashy fun, if that's your thing. Lana had a good run for an aging Sweater Girl without too much else to offer.

For that matter--Ava Gardner was a sultry, beautiful presence, but what exactly is her acclaim in film based on? Many of her better known films ("Barefoot Contessa," "One Touch of Venus," "Mogambo") aren't very good. I find "Contessa" in particular a complete bore. She's okay in "Showboat" and pretty good in "Night of the Iguana," but by then she'd long lost her good looks. So why is she a legend when so many of her contemporaries are not?

She was a B List talent trapped in an A List career.

^^ Lana... not the divine Ava!

Ava Gardner at least had an earthy, sensual presence. And she’s good in THE KILLERS.

Lana was just blank... like she was made of styrofoam.

Hollywood whore who slept with gangsters with a dyke daughter who sold Turner's jewelry on eBay.

I wrote and ask if she was going to list the knife she used to kill Johnny S. Didn't get a reply.

Lana Turner was 16 in her movie debut ("They Won't Forget", 1937), playing a high school student who was murdered. Her first scene showed her walking down the street and that was enough to make an impression on audiences.

Lana was an absolute beauty and a better actress than people give her credit for. She’s pretty awesome in both The Bad and the Beautiful and Madame X.

Ava Gardner was too distracted by her husband’s pre-Earthquake affair with that “Marshall woman”. lol

I adore Ava. She had presence. I never cared for Lana. She was a bore.

Lana was smart to go platinum blonde (probably MGM's idea). She was a cute little brunette, but not really memorable looking.

I also suspect she had her original nose bobbed a bit sometime after this photo.

[quote]R14 Lana was an absolute beauty

Eh...

I always thought she was super generic.

Oh yes.... rhinoplasty for sure.

She doesn't even resemble the later Lana here.

She was blonde. White folks back then were crazy for blondes.

The Bad and the Beautiful. Lana was very glamorous and artificial. That's what people liked. I like it. Its a niche.

Lana embodied all the excesses of mid-century Hollywood glamour: the white-blonde hair, the abundant cleavage, glowing skin and teeth, customized lighting, wardrobe, styling....

Quite a transformation for a short, busty brunette from Idaho.

Lana Turner has Collapsed! O’Hara wrote his poem as a fuck you to a more prominent poet he was on a panel with in Staten Island after seeing a newspaper at a stand in midtown as he commuted downtown and on the ferry over to the island so they knew he had just written it within those few hours.

Oh, gurl...

You can see why she wasn't photographed in profile that often. It's not nearly as flattering as the full-face shots.

She was very glamorous in "Imitation of Life".

There is an essay by Boyd McDonald in his book about "Night of a Thousand Stars", which is something of a tribute to Lana and a very funny read. I don't have my copy anymore or I would post some of it. Here's a review of the book.

I think Marilyn wisely patterned herself after Lana more than any other actress. The hair, breathy voice, boobies...

Although MM almost always played dimwits, her characters always had poise, dignity and empathy.

She is iconic in THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE in her all-white wardrobe.

Much like IMITATION OF LIFE, she's most effective when a smart director embraces her gorgeous artificiality and shallowness.

Very strange to see a Lana Turner and Ava Gardner comparison. I always considered them great, yet separate talents. The only connection that comes to mind is that Mickey Rooney let Lana use Ava’s douche during their trysts.

Hedy Lamar was the really beauty and powerhouse.

#teamava

Hedy Lamarr was stunningly beautiful. A shame she's not better known to contemporary audiences.

I've always though Lana was a decent actress under the right direction. She's certainly no better or worse than most of her peers from that time. She was an interesting person--something a bit artificial about her, yes, but you also have to remember she cut her teeth in the studio system as a teenager. It was all smoke and mirrors, and her public persona was very much cultivated by people around her.

I've actually been to her childhood home in Wallace, ID. I have family in Montana and have driven through that town many times. A few years ago I spent the night there, and, having read that she was born there, Googled her childhood home (I wasn't even sure it was still standing); lo and behold, it's still there. It's a ramshackle house that looks abandoned, but it's still standing.

And Hedy, unlike Lana busy sharing and shooting lovers with her daughter, was an inventor figuring out how subs could send messages during WWII and inventing the foundation for cell phone calls.

Lana Turner was completely a product of MGM's studio system and a MOVIE STAH before anything (actress, wife, mother, etc) else. And she went about her job expertly! If not the greatest actress, she was at least effective on screen most of the time. She was always perfectly made up, gowned, bejeweled & coiffed. And with her insatiable love of fat cocks, she consistently gave the fan magazines/gossip columns plenty to dish about!

Lana appeared in several entertaining but lightweight movies from the late 30s throughout the 40s. And when she matured and became a slightly better actress in the 50s & 60s, she carried all those glamorous melodramas with ease.

Ava Gardner (while more naturally beautiful) was even less of an actress than Lana was! OP, I'm not sure what you saw Ava in to make such a ridiculous claim? As beautiful as she was, she was less of an actress than Lana was and never had the career that Lana had. And this is coming from someone that enjoys the handful of good films that Ava made.

It really was all about the tits. To really get the effect you have to see her actually walking in her first film, age 16 in a tight sweater. Every straight man in the audience must have gotten a stiffy.

Lana had a habit of stealing Judy Garland's boyfriends. Every man Judy expressed interest in, Lana fucked. As a young woman, Judy would have given anything to look like her frenemy: "Lana Turner," she said bitterly, "THAT'S beauty." Of course, she also said that talking to Lana was like talking to a beautiful vase.

A story goes that one day on set Lana kept flubbing her lines. After several takes she announced that she couldn't concentrate unless she got fucked immediately and a stud was summoned from the MGM lot. That was back when studios really took care of their stars!

It's hard to tell what she really looked like judging from the studio-type photos.

Here she is circa 1982.

She aged really fast. By the time of her final starring role in Madame X she looked late 50s instead of just 45. All that smoking and drinking did a number on her.

I don’t get all the Lana hate & Ava love. Personally I think they’re both great in their own ways. Though a beauty, was Ava that great of an actress? Didn’t one of the Studio heads, when he first met her, famously say: She can’t sing, she can’t dance, she can’t act; she’s perfect!

I have a coffee table book that Lana’s daughter put out filled with huge pics of Lana throughout her career. When she was younger she was almost surreal in her American prettiness. She represented an ideal of beauty for that time period.

She did age so quickly though. By the time she did Postman she was already beginning to lose her looks. She peaked very early in that regard.

Many of the female sex symbols of that period didn't age well, because most of them smoked, drank, and tanned themselves mahogany whenever they could. Off the top of my head, I can think of two who did age quite well, and that's Loretta Young and Maureen O'Hara. I don't think either of those ladies led that sort of lifestyle.

Glamorous and sexy. Big boobs and bleached hair. The formula still works today with Pam Anderson, etc.. always will for the straights.

They were on the same level in their day. Lana is better known now because she made some movies that are still down and well-regarded today.

When was the last time you watched Mogambo or The Barefoot Contessa? When was the last time you watched The Postman Always Rings Twice or Imitation of Life?

There you go.

For some reason Ava Gardner looked OVER THE HILL so much earlier than Lana Turner.

Here's a clip from one of her early pictures at MGM, Rich Man Poor Girl. Playing the younger sister, a supporting part. Hair still dark. Still pretty inexperienced, but she has charisma and screen presence. The raw materials of stardom.

R43- Look at Michelle Philips. She looks so FRAIL and ELDERLY.

She's aged poorly from all the drugs and booze. Martha Stewart ( so many faggots either love or hate her- me love) is four years older than MP and has aged well and doesn't act ELDERLY.

R46, for some reason? Ava was a good time, party gal who drank like a fish, smoked like a chimney, and partied 'til dawn in all the best bars and nightclubs in Hollywood, Rome, Madrid, Seville, etc. She basically turned her back on her movie career for la dolce vita in Spain. By 1960, she was still glamorous, but her face was showing the wear and tear of sleepless nights and a lifestyle of excess.

To understand Lana, you have to go back to watch her earlier movies 1939-1946. She is stunning and very charming and much more relaxed and real than her later movies. POSTMAN really is her last great performance. her looks hardened and her acting got more and more artificial the older she got. Still, Ava couldn't act her way out of a paper bag. Even playing parts close to herself, in MOGAMBO and NIGHT OF THE IGUANA, she still comes off fake.

Lana, like me, was a total size queen. So she will always have a special place in my heart.

R51- Lana had access to QUALITY cock in the 1940's and 1950's.

I'm not sure that Johnny Stompanato was quality cock, but I, like Lana, would have rode that horse cock until my hole fell out.

Someone above wrote: "She was a B List talent trapped in an A List career." Tears sprang to my eyes. What I would have given!!!!!!

Maybe the Irish stars had the good sense to stay out of the sun!

[quote]Very strange to see a Lana Turner and Ava Gardner comparison

WHY? They were the same age, were both at MGM and they were best friends. Plus close to Sinatra. Everyone knows the story where Frankie allegedly caught Ava and Lana in a compromising position and raised hell with such a tantrum that it spilled on to the street. Neighbors called the cops, police report was filed.

the quad-fecta of glamorous movie female movie star in the 40s was hayworth, grable, gardner and turner.... all of them were then surpassed by Marilyn...in fact, i think monroe was the last "sex symbol" who was A-list box office draw... after her passing, you had raquel welch, ann-margret and others who while famous sex symbols, were never above the title, selling a big budget, box office hit movies on their name alone....

the sex symbol as a great box office draw all on her own pretty much died when Marilyn did...

[quote]r50 To understand Lana...

Must we?

r7, and Stompanato got 10" of my knife!

Check out Cheryl's documentary on her mother. narrated by sleazoid Robert Wagner.

Lana never had a strong film persona.

She could be committed, after her first clunkers, and seem nuanced, but often a viewer is wondering if apparent internal conflict and complexity actually was showing her trying to remember her lines.

I agree with the poster who said Lana embodied a particular type of beauty lionized in the 30s and 40s. The all-American milkmaid look was promoted heavily by the studio bosses in Hollywood and by Louis B. Mayer in particular. He really had a thing for the shiksas.

Lana was stunning in Postman Always Rings Twice. Especially when she is standing in the doorway, in her shorts and midriff top. John Garfield's jaw dropped. I don't see a decline in her looks there, as was mentioned upthread. She was beautiful.

She was mildly talented (and effectively cast or directed she could be compelling), very cute (and I'm sure to straight men she was beautiful because she had big tits) but I think the quality that made and kept her a star is her likability. Both male and female movie-goers liked her, and she was also well-liked in Hollywood by men and women.

[quote] Ava Gardner (while more naturally beautiful) was even less of an actress than Lana was! OP, I'm not sure what you saw Ava in to make such a ridiculous claim? As beautiful as she was, she was less of an actress than Lana was and never had the career that Lana had.

I completely disagree with this, and many film scholars would too.

Ava showed she could be quite a fine actress if she got the right part: she's superb in THE KILLERS, BHOWANI JUNCTION, MOGAMBO, THE BAREFOOT CONTESSA, and THE NIGHT OF THE IGUANA.

[quote]When was the last time you watched Mogambo or The Barefoot Contessa? When was the last time you watched The Postman Always Rings Twice or Imitation of Life? There you go.

I just re-watched The Killers (1946) and Show Boat (1951) more recently than I re-watched any of the others you list, so that argumentative tactic doesn't hold water.

There YOU go.

[quote] For some reason Ava Gardner looked OVER THE HILL so much earlier than Lana Turner.

IMO, Ava was good-looking in a womanly way, not a girlish way. (Her facial features were more womanly than girlish.) The hairstyles of that time have not come back into style. So, the hairstyles look old-fashioned and age both of these women.

Marilyn Monroe's hair was probably the best of the bunch. Her hair was still curled & had volume, but it looked less like a helmet than the other women's hair.

They were both glamorous stars as somebody pointed out that don't exist today. There are plenty just as bad but none of them look as good. And god knows with all the money they spend on big budget film they should.

Lana Turner’s private life was as fascinating as her movies. It’s been said that she was a gay man trapped in a woman’s body. Men flocked to her and she enjoyed them. Gay men lived vicariously through her many affairs, some of which were dangerous. It gave them a little thrill, much like flirting with “rough trade.” She liked her man to be handsome, well built and “hung.”

Her movies, many of which are women’s pictures, offered gay men an escape. She was beautiful, and her costumes and the sumptuous settings befitted a fairy tale. (No pun intended.) Her daughter Cheryl said Lana’s audience in the 1950s consisted of middle aged women and young men in “dungarees.”

Yeah I always felt she was somehow on our team.

Lana Turner’s autobiography is very entertaining. Ironically, she wrote that sex wasn’t that important to her, that she valued a men’s sense of humor. The love of her life was Tyrone Power. She said she wanted one husband and 8 children. She wound up with 8 husbands and one child.

All the smoking and drinking aged her fast. She was already getting hard-looking by the time she was only in her early thirties.

[quote] It’s been said that she was a gay man trapped in a woman’s body.

Yes, it's been said here at the Datalounge. Probably by you, R69.

[quote]I think the quality that made and kept her a star is her likability. Both male and female movie-goers liked her, and she was also well-liked in Hollywood by men and women.

She wasn't a bitchy diva type in her private life at all. She had a very pleasant personality and was quite a nice person. Always had time for fans who approached her in public. Her likability was a big reason why her career and fame lasted longer than if did for some of her contmeporaries.

Even in her later years Lana was still serving up Classic Movie Star Glamour.

Tyrone was bi, n'est-ce pas?

R75 great nails

Funny she smoked Mores. Those were the ultimate "old lady" cigs back in those days.

Judy Garland was also obsessed with Tyrone Power and may have aborted his baby. I don't blame Lana or Judy: He was fucking gorgeous. AND bisexual, so the fellas got to enjoy him too.

Lana always knew where the camera was.

Ruth Orkin (1921-1985)

Lana Turner at a famous party given by Marion Davies (with Esther Williams, Fernando Lamas and Ben Gage also in shot), Hollywood, 1952

Gelatin silver print, printed later, signed, titled, dated in ink and 'Central Park West' copyright credit stamp on the verso.

"A star-studded party was given by Marion Davies in honor of the singer Jonny Ray. Marion Davies was selling her estate, so the affair was also a farewell to the house. The place was enormous...It was easy to meld with the crowd and come out with intimate photographs, since I was dressed for the occasion and the only female photographer there. " Ruth Orkin

Here's the Ruth Orkin website with some other photos from the party.

R77... In some photos, you see her hands. She has lovely hands...fingers long and tapered...very delicate. The nails are very long, but even if she had shorter nails...her hands are still pretty. I watched a video of her, in her later years, in an interview. She motions her hands as she is speaking, and I noticed them. She could have been a hand model.

[quote]the quad-fecta of glamorous movie female movie star in the 40s was hayworth, grable, gardner and turner

I can see the appeal of Betty Grable & Lana Turner as pin ups but beyond that I don’t get it.

The three biggest female stars of the 1930s were all at MGM: Greta Garbo, Norma Shearer and Joan Crawford. As their popular diminished by the end of the decade, LB Mayer systematically replaced Mysterious Vamp Greta Garbo with Hedy Lamarr, Great Lady Norma Shearer with Greer Garson and Shopgirl Who Makes Good Joan Crawford with Lana Turner.

I guess one could say that Jean Harlow was MGM's 4th big diva but Mayer never really found anyone to replace her....though perhaps her Happy Gun Moll type seemed too much of a throwback by the time of her death in 1937. But Lana's styling in 1946's The Postman Only Rings Twice was supposed to evoke the aura of Harlow.

R84......... where were mae west, shirley temple, carole lombard in the rank of biggest stars in the 1930's?...

[quote]great nails

Great FAKE nails

Shirley Temple had aged out of being a big star by the end of the 1930s. She got a deal with MGM but when Arthur Freed showed young Shirley his cock at their first meeting, she laughed at him and he threw her out of his office. That messed her up at MGM--she only made one film for them.

She made some films in the 40s but never recovered her early success and retired by 1950. She wouldn't come back until the Shirley Temple Storybook TV show at the end of the decade.

BTW, Shirley was only 13 when Freed exposed himself to her. What a sleaze he was.

I truly think that if you want to enjoy films from Old Hollywood, you really have to just embrace the artifice. You can't watch a Lana Turner and expect a performance equivalent to a modern actress. It's important to just accept those "stars" for what they were, and nothing more or less. It is what it is. Accepting the artifice made it easier to enjoy those films and actors like Lana Turner.

R67 I've always thought that Ava Gardner looked her most "modern" in Night of the Iguana. Sure, age had caught up with her by 41, but she looked more "youthful" in a way without that helmet hair of the 1940s and 50s.

Another example from Night of the Iguana.

Dang Lana looked HARD.

Fuck you R84 and R85!

Great point r89!

The frumpiness set in early.

She’s only 33 in this pic:

R95: Frumpiness? My God, Gable looks like her grandfather there.

Turner was made for bullet bras---you just had to follow her tits and you knew where the trouble was going to be. She really didn't need to act very much to advance a story, just wear a tight sweater. OTOH, even when she seemed to be playing against type (Peyton Place) she turned out to be whore and somehow made the uptight frigidity work.

Gardner was not a great actress but she seemed to a bit more fun than Turner. She's great in "Night of the Iguana" and the perfect foil for that lesbian chaperone and Burton's scenery chewing. Kerr is very good, too, as someone who is essentially a high class grifter.

A couple of months ago I caught Lana in the 1945 MGM movie Keep Your Powder Dry. That was certainly a change of pace for her. A comedy/drama about 3 women of different backgrounds who join the WACS. No romance storylines. Instead the story focuses on the bonds the 3 women form and the purpose they each find in serving. And each have to grow up in their own way. Lana is quite good in this as are her co stars Laraine Day and Susan Peters. And for the most part Lana isn't glammed up and as a result she delivers as a strong performance. Keep Your Powder Dry is not a great movie, but it's an entertaining picture that holds your attention and well worth checking out.

That TCM documentary about Lana Turner has some great footage from WWII era of Lana doing war bond rallies and visiting soldiers and in those newsreel footage she comes off as very likable and upbeat and fun and approachable even in all of her MGM glamour. No wonder audiences of the time went for her. Even in her grander, icier later years, that quality still slipped through especially in Madame X, which is likely her best on screen performance.

R59 Guess again.

Turner was the Jennifer Lawrence of her day.

[quote] Gay men lived vicariously through her many affairs, some of which were dangerous. It gave them a little thrill, much like flirting with “rough trade.”

[quote] Her movies, many of which are women’s pictures, offered gay men an escape.

It's so nice you were elected a spokesman for gay men from that period in history.

I'm assuming that you all introduced Ava to a thread about Lana because you know they were lovers. Must have been a beautiful sight to behold for the man they liked to involve in their threesomes.

Lana Turner is not a dyke, and I can prove it!

Fernando probably bedded Lana and Ava... at the same time.

Confidential

Do any of the DL old timers here remember a hilarious story about Lana that the great Susie Lee told here in one of her glorious threads about Hollywood stars? A very funny response to a rabid fan about how glamorous Lana always looked in the old days?

I did a search and couldn't find it but went down a 4 hour hole reading one of the long Susie Lee threads.

In her Private Screenings interview Esther Williams comments about having the dressing room next to Lana at MGM at the time Lana was dating Fernando. Lamas. She says she could hear their sex noises coming through the wall.

Esther must have been jealous that Lana was getting that Argentinian cock. She later married Lamas.

She says she was interested in Fernando but would not tolerate his playing around.

[quote] Esther must have been jealous that Lana was getting that Argentinian cock. She later married Lamas.

Not only that R108, but Lamas' cock was apparently so good that when the jealous SOB demanded that Esther abandon her 2 young sons and leave them with their alcoholic father Ben Gage, she did just that without batting an eyelash. Bitch.

She was the blonde, OP. Rita was the redhead, Ava the brunette, and Hedy....well, Hedy was the one with the accent.

No, I was the blonde, bitch R111.

Her sister Tina was the more talented one.

It shows you what an idiot Sinatra was, that his response to finding Ava and Lana fucking was to freak out instead of asking if he could join in.

If Lana was a size queen that it stands to reason that Stephen Crane was hung too.

Good actress or not, the camera loved Lana. She gave some solid performances throughout her career. I liked her a lot in "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" with Ingrid Bergman, one of her earlier roles. I've read before that she was very well-regarded by everyone she worked with, despite all the drama of her personal life. She was apparently very professional and a hard worker, which earns her my respect—she wasn't a Lindsay Lohan figure by any means.

Lana endured, r112, Connie not so much.

[quote] It shows you what an idiot Sinatra was, that his response to finding Ava and Lana fucking was to freak out instead of asking if he could join in.

R114, Ole Blue Eyes had repeatedly shoved his Hard Italian Salami into Lana's lady bits for several years before he ever got his hands on Ava. Lana & Frank had been on & off again "fuck buddies" dating back to his Tommy Dorsey years and throughout the 40s. I suppose he wasn't in the mood for leftovers that night.

I'm shocked Sinatra didn't join in. He seemed up for anything involving attractive women.

[quote]R117 Lana endured, Connie not so much.

Lake was much more beautiful, and distinctive, than blow up doll Turner. Lake was also a more natural actress, with a wider range.

It’s sad that she grated on important people in the industry. And drank. Unfortunately, she seemed to be of the Frances “Screw ‘em” Farmer school of thought.

Lake and Turner

It was said that Lana's greatest performance was her testimony in her daughter's murder trial.

Lake was nothing special as an actress and both Hollywood and the public realized that once the peekaboo hair was gone, there wasn't much there.

I was surprised to learn that Lana was only 5 years older than Marilyn Monroe. They really seemed to be from two different generations.

Well, r124, Lana was only 16 when she made They Won't Forget in 1937.

True r124. They did seem to be from different generations/eras. Lana hit stardom very young.

R97, I ADORE "Keep Your Powder Dry"! And the onscreen tension between Lana & Laraine Day was very real. The two had worked together in the late 30s on one of the Doctor Kildare films. At the time Lana was a featured player & Laraine (being a series regular) was billed higher.

Lana wrote in her memoirs that she enjoyed pulling rank & being a bitch to Laraine on the set of 'Keep Your Powder Dry" because Laraine had treated her like complete shit years before on the Doctor Kildare set.

Lana made it really young and Marilyn didn't break through until her mid-20s. Lana's heyday was the late 30s/early 40s and Marilyn's was the 50s.

Despite her beauty and camera appeal, Marilyn had to do a lot of hustling to get her shot at the big time.

Lana loved getting fucked and loved big cocks. The more the better! She got tons of the hottest men with the biggest cocks of that era. Good for her.

Lana had already peaked as a sex symbol by the time Marilyn broke through. Lana worked throughout the 50s and was still beautiful, but not how she'd been in the 1940s.

Lana in the Bad and the Beautiful, 1952. Still stunning but already looking a bit hard and mature, and she was only 30.

[quote]Lamarr was an inventor figuring out how subs could send messages during WWII and inventing the foundation for cell phone calls.

And then became the crazy lady shoplifting toiletries from an Eckerd's drug store.

Lana Turner and Judy Holliday look nearly identical to me. In the Gary Collins clip I think Lana looks so beautiful and her stories are great!

Lana did a fair amount of theater in the '70s after her film career had waned. She was a film actress through and through, so it's hard to imagine how she would've handled the stage. If you read the reviews, comments on her acting are very mixed, unsurprisingly, with many likening the performances to fashion shows. I'm sure they were fascinating to watch. She apparently worked her ass off, though--a stagehand in one of those productions was quoted in a local newspaper as saying that Turner was "the hardest working broad I've ever met."

Turner nearly went bankrupt in the early 50s. After that she got more serious about her finances. One major payday was that she got a cut of the profits for Peyton Place. By the time she died she was worth a couple of million--not a princely sum in the mid-90s, but she didn't end up a broke homeless lady like Judy Garland, so good for Lana.

[quote] I was surprised to learn that Lana was only 5 years older than Marilyn Monroe. They really seemed to be from two different generations.

ALL of those Late 1930s/1940s Era Sex Kittens looked liked Old Matrons by the time the 1950s got going. The excessive smoking, drinking, tanning, partying, bad marriages, babies & all-around hard living wrecked hell on their looks. Not only that, but those horrid 1950s fashions (Peter Pan Blouses, Short Poodle Hair with Mamie Eisenhower Bangs, Mama's Family Hats, etc) did them no favors!

Ann Sheridan, Joan Bennett, Jane Greer, Claire Trevor, Jane Wyman, Betty Grable, Lucille Ball, Barbara Stanwyck and countless others all looked TWENTY YEARS OLDER in the 1950s than they had looked just 5 years prior in the 1940s! It wasn't just aging, it was those horrible fashions!

Lana ran away from Hollywood for 2 or 3 years in the Late 1940s to marry a millionaire named Bob Topping. She returned in 1950 (for the film "A Life Of Her Own") looking slightly overweight and continued to look a bit frumpy for the next 5 years or so. After her comeback film (Peyton Place) and murder trial, she looked more slim than she had in years & somewhat "refreshed". By 1959's "Imitation Of Love" she looked absolutely fabulous!

A FRINGED CAFTAN worn by Ms. Turner during her illustrious stage career.

Must-Have look for spring!!

What did Joanie think of Lana?

One of my favorite movies is Johnny Eager. I guess the two stars canceled each other out in the acting area but I love it

the documentary claims that Lana was brought into replace the recently deceased Jean Harlow, not Joan Crawford as someone above writes. Crawford was still at MGM when Lana was signed though in a career lull thus the box office poison label and she would bounce temporarily back with The Women.

Only Marilyn and Ava looked good in the early 50s, and both went their own ways in hair and fashion. As women of all ages were cutting their hair short in the Italian style, Marilyn and Ava chose youthful styles that flattered them.

This lady, Jeanne Carmen, was a contemporary of Lana, Marilyn, etc. She dated Frank Sinatra after Lana, I think. Also date Elvis Presley.

[quote]What did Joanie think of Lana?

LOL. Lana's first love, lawyer Greg Bautzer [see attachment] was Crawford's absolute FAVORITE COCK from the late 30s up to the 1950s and beyond. When young ingenue Lana Turner was getting serious about Greg, Joanie summoned the starlet to her home for tea. When Lana arrived Joan told her "You see Dear, what Greg and I have is real. He just hasn't figured out how to get rid of you!" Ouch! A heartbroken Lana ran off and eloped with Artie Shaw to ease the pain.

Lana & Joan went on to share several of the same cocks. Clark Gable & Frank Sinatra specifically. And in1947 Joan even had a quick fling with Lana's ex Stephen Crane!

Joan Crawford & Greg Bautzer

I think Ava may have had a go at Bautzer too.

Joan Crawford & (Lana's ex) Stephen Crane, 1947

[quote]Ann Sheridan, Joan Bennett, Jane Greer, Claire Trevor, Jane Wyman, Betty Grable, Lucille Ball, Barbara Stanwyck and countless others all looked TWENTY YEARS OLDER in the 1950s than they had looked just 5 years prior in the 1940s! It wasn't just aging, it was those horrible fashions!

True. Bette Davis, too. The booze and smoking really hit her looks hard. She got really haggard-looking, and it remained that way for the rest of her life. This is Bette in her early 50s, around the same age Jennifer Aniston, Julia Roberts and Nicole Kidman are now.

Crawford really was gorgeous in her youth.

[quote]R143 Lana's first love, lawyer Greg Bautzer was Crawford's absolute FAVORITE COCK from the late 30s up to the 1950s and beyond.

“Greeeegggg.... you’re EARLY!”

Joan never stopped being gorgeous. She made a few bad style choices later in her career, but the gorgeous was always there. Lana also remained quite the beauty.

Crawford's exquisite bone structure and large eyes carried her for a very long time. They last when youthful bloom fades.

That picture of Bette Davis made me wonder if actresses today take that much better care of themselves, or if skin care and cosmetic surgery techniques are just better? Jennifer Anniston smokes and tans, and while she certainly doesn't look 25, she's a goddess compared to Davis at the same age.

Cosmetic surgery and dermatology have come a long way. Dermatology back then was practically nonexistent. Lasers and chemical peels and other techniques can do wonders for people today.

One of my favorite Ava Gardner movies is "The Cassandra Crossing" from 1976. It's about a European government attempting to prevent a pandemic by any means necessary; after several boarders on a luxury train have been exposed to an infectious disease. Ava is one of several players in an all-star cast that included Burt Lancaster, Sophia Loren, Richard Harris, O.J. Simpson and Martin Sheen.

Ava plays a rich, middle aged slut, traveling the world and living a life of debauchery with her much younger "boy toy", Martin Sheen. She plays the part to perfection!

Not much acting required for that part, really.

IMO, Joan Crawford, young or old, was not great-looking.

Davis was always a character actress--much more like the leading ladies who emerged in the 70s than like her contemporaries. But that also meant that as she aged, there weren't leading roles for her---she probably had as much difficulty as Crawford in accepting supporting parts. Although she clearly is the star of "All About Eve", it's an ensemble piece and the smaller roles are a big part of what makes the film. Anne Baxter is just ok, but George Sanders, Thelma Ritter and even Marilyn Monroe's bit part are really important to the film. Merrill shines only because he and Davis were having an affair.

Holliday looks nothing like Turner and had a vastly different persona. It's difficult to compare the 50s with prior decades, drinking and smoking aside. You had stars made for bombshell glamour like Marilyn Monroe and Jane Russell, but everyone who was a bit older tended to be decked out and directed in the frumpish look that passed for respectability in those days. Even someone like Dorothy Malone in her nymphomaniac parts was dressed and coiffed like a dull middle class housewife.

I watched an interview of Lana on youtube. She spoke a little about her relationship with Fernando Lamas and his violent Latin temper...insinuating how at times, she "really got it". She didn't go into details. I'm sure he beat shit out of her. Probably had very hot sex, too...

That article about Veronica Lake posted way upthread at r112 is really great. Thanks for posting it.

The difference in Paramount and MGM is fascinating, with the former studio investing lots of attention and money in developing Lake's persona and stardom but leaving her in the dust as soon as she appeared in a flop film. MGM was apparently better at nurturing and caretaking their talent for the long run.

Why were baby girls born in the 1940s rarely named Lana, Veronica, Hedy, Rita or Ava?

I think Crawford is very pretty in Grand Hotel. It's probably her best performance as well holding her own against actors like John and Lionel Barrymore.

i wonder why with all of the great truly great looking and built studs around then like steve reeves, clint walker and so on, these women didn't hop in the sack asap with guys like this!????!!!!

Ah yes, r141, "the Italian style"...

One of the summer Star package tours she did in the '70s, r134, was Bell, Book & Candle. Same time Ginger was schlepping around in 40 Carats.

I don't think Italian Americans of that era had a high tolerance for kink. They surely hated homos and probably barely tolerated lezzies. In bed they fucked pussies and got blow jobs. I think that's about it.

R165: You've pretty much described anyone form that era. oral sex was considered a little kinky back then.

[quote]MGM was apparently better at nurturing and caretaking their talent for the long run.

Unless you were box office poison.

Thank you, R81.

R95 is right. Gable looks like her grandfather but Lana still looks frumpy.

She aged quickly. She could still pull off starlet in Bad and the Beautiful, but by the next year she's looking older in Latin Lovers, and by the time of Betrayed, the photo in r95, she is only two years older than in Bad and the Beautiful but looks like everyone's mom.

Given how she looked in Merry Widow, I often wondered if she had some work done after BATB and it made her look more harsh and older.

[quote]Lake was much more beautiful, and distinctive, than blow up doll Turner. Lake was also a more natural actress, with a wider range.

Beauty is subjective but by no measure was Lake an actress at all, let alone a good one. She was stiff, unnatural, clumsy with line readings, glanced at the cameras sometimes, and often had inappropriate facial reactions and vocal tone that did not match the dialogue.

She was a huge pain in the ass for the studios. She was tiny and difficult to film or dress, which is why she was paired with short guy Alan Ladd so often. She only had one style that really looked good on her, and she was unprofessional and alcoholic, irritating a lot of her co-stars and causing massive reshoots on films like I Married a Witch.

I understand a lot of this was because she was mentally ill (though she doesn't appear to have been schizophrenic, as her mother claimed) and I'm not unsympathetic, and she had a lot of shit dealt out to her when she was too young to handle it, but that doesn't mean she was a good actress. She was a personality and only became famous because of the hair and because of the photo referenced in the article at r112 where her white skirt was blown up against her, revealing a lot more than skirts usually did.

The star quality she supposedly had is invisible to me. There are too many moments in her films and her publicity photos where she has this bland, slightly confused expression, she looks uncomfortable, like a high schooler trying to look like a Hollywood star and failing. I mean, she doesn't even know what she's doing in this photo. She has no idea what the ice cube is even about.

What r166 said. That wasn't just Italians, it was straight men in general.

Veronica in 1971...

Lana? She sucked all the right dicks, just like all the rest of 'em!

[quote]Admittedly it's through a homosexual lens.

Are these available at Warby Parker?

[quote]I don't think Italian Americans of that era had a high tolerance for kink. They surely hated homos

I don't think that's true. Greenwich Village was a large Italian neighborhood and the two communities lived side by side in the 50s and 60s. When GV became gay mecca in the 70s, I think many Italians had made their way in life and were moving to Jersey for more space and bigger houses.

How did so many women in the 40s and 50s avoid becoming pregnant while having so many lovers?

They didn't.

MGM had an abortionist on standby. Joan Crawford, Bette Davis, Judy Garland, and Lana had multiple abortions.

Many years ago maybe it was in the 90s I knew an old Italian lady who grew up in Little Italy. So maybe the 30s or 40s? She said across the street lived a lesbian couple. She said everyone knew but nobody really cared.

Wealthy white women of the early and mid-20th Century had plenty of access to safe abortions. There was always a pet doctor would do a quick 'd & c.'

[quote]Joan Crawford, Bette Davis, Judy Garland, and Lana had multiple abortions.

Unfortunately, one of mine lived to be an ungrateful daughter and write two nasty books about me.

Maybe a lot of these Hollywood actresses look so "old" at 30 and 40 because they lied so much about their ages. (Shaved off 5+ years.)

Myrna Loy and Jane Russell were left infertile by bad abortions.

I would assume Crawford and Stanwyck as well.

[quote]I would assume Crawford and Stanwyck as well.

I thought Stanwyck liked the ladies. Did she have sex with men?

The love of her life was Tyrone Power or was it Robert Taylor?

She adopted a boy. It did not end well.

Stanwyck's father abandoned the family leaving her the sole breadwinner. She was 14 when she began dancing in clubs and no doubt she did what she to.

Re: R175. When flamboyant homosexualist Charles Nelson Reilly was a starving actor in NYC in the 50s and 60s, his Italian-American neighbors in Greenwich Village often fed him and kept him alive during lean times. So there's something to be said about peaceful co-existence.

A woman who lived in a city like NY or LA could always get an abortion.

Wow! Veronica Lake looks like she's 70 in that Dick Cavett clip from 1971 though she says she's 48. I can't tell if she's drunk or just an awkward speaker.

[quote]Turner was made for bullet bras---you just had to follow her tits and you knew where the trouble was going to be.

Are you sure it was all her? Lena Horne said all the MGM babes were padded except for Ava...but Lena had a thing for Ava's big ones.

[quote]I'm shocked Sinatra didn't join in. He seemed up for anything involving attractive women.

Not when it came to Ava. He was violently jealous of anyone she had slept with or was rumored to have slept with (see above).

Whether it was her or padding, no one could the sweater girl thing like Lana and really, without the bullet bra, you'd probably notice that she couldn't act her way out of a paper bag.

As for abortions, my older sister started working as a nurse in OB before Roe v. Wade. OBs with social register patients routine did abortions on said patients at that time. It was a matter of having the right info and the money to afford them, as well as billing systems and health records that were better at camoflaging them.

The now-defunct Doctor's Hospital on East End Avenue was the "society" hospital back then, and well-connected women could always get an abortion there.

I was so disappointed in that appearance, r190. I wrote her a fan letter letting her know that. She wrote back.

Anyone here ever see Lana in one of her plays in the 70s and early 80s? How was she?

I agree with R11, she was as blank as styrofoam.

The only good thing about her was she got sick in the year1959 which allowed Martin Ritt to hire a genuine actress.

Margaret had just won the Tony Award for Best Actress play a double role of glamorous drunk and mousey daughter on Broadway in 'Separate Tables'.

Lana ='d STAR, STAR, STAR. Please turn in your Gay Card, OP!

R194 were you thrilled? She was chic and gracious in her note.

Younger DLers here may not know that the Lana Turner starlet build-up included the fetching story of the teenager being discovered by producer Mervyn LeRoy as she sipped a coke sitting on a stool at the soda fountain of Schwab's Drugstore.

I believe it was all eventually debunked but it nevertheless made Schwab's a must-see Hollywood tourist spot for decades.

YES, R97, I saw that film on TCM just a few months back, too, which I'd never caught before and was drawn into. I think it reflected the underappreciated "pluckiness" yet with streetwise sophistication that Lana could deliver lines, convey a facial response, and show that she could swing a line of dialogue in such a way that she could hang in there in a scene with the best of her co-actors.

Also worth mentioning as far as her "aging," I believe, is that beauty and visual standards were different then. Nowadays we have celebrities and actors who will literally try to dress, wear their hair, physically look, and act as if they are still in their 20s albeit having reached their 60s and 70s.. In Lana's era, actresses were far more expected to immediately switch their hair, clothes and makeup to whatever changing fashion trends occurred, and to leave behind perceived younger age-groups' looks and fashions for the frumpier and more reserved ones of the next older age-set's, almost obsessively and absolutely so. Note the Dior Fashion change of about 1948: All the padded shoulders, shorter dresses, and big bouffant hairdos immediately went the way of the more natural shoulders, long breezy hemlines and severely short haircuts and more tailored suit dresses. Women actors in that era really were made much more than today to be and feel tethered to certain restrictive images that went beyond the movie roles they became increasingly limited to, IMO.

Agreed, r200. Until the late 1960s women dressed to look like adults, not like teenagers.

Just compare supermodels Suzy Parker of the 1950s to Twiggy of the 1960s.

Traci Lords (post porn and circa "Cry Baby") kind of resembles Veronica Lake.

Before Ava dated Frank, Lana warned her that there wasn't "a woman in Hollywood who hasn't cried on his cock," which made me laugh when I read it.

I felt kind of guilty, r198. I hadn't meant to be overly critical. But she probably wouldn't have responded if it had been a standard fawning fan letter.

*Miss Stewart as Miss Lake*

To give Frank credit, he'd still pity fuck Judy even in the mid-50s, when she was really fat. The book written by Frank's former butler talks about it.

I think Steve Crane was hotter than Johnny Stompanato. Given Lana's track record, he was probably hung too. Very handsome.

Lana and Steve on their wedding day

Lana had Mickey Rooney, Howard Hughes, Greg Bautzer, Fernando Lamas, Artie Shaw, and Frank Sinatra before Ava got to any of them. Lana warned Ava that Mickey, whom she nicknamed 'Andy Hard-on' "would screw anything that moves." And of Frank she advised, "I've been there, honey, don't do it!"

Artie Shaw was engaged to Betty Grable while dating both Judy Garland and Lana Turner. When Betty got pregnant with Artie's baby, he bolted and eloped with Lana. Lana later said that she only agreed to the elopement to make her beau, Greg Bautzer, jealous! Betty aborted the baby.

Steven Crane was very handsome.

Judy went into hysterics when she found out Lana had married Artie Shaw. She adored Artie and was hoping he would marry her and get her out of her controlling mother's clutches. On the rebound, she started dating David Rose, whom she would marry a year later.

Shaw always said that he and Judy were just friends and he thought of her as a sister: She wasn't his physical type.

Poor, short Judy. Stuck between gorgeous Hedy and sexy Lana must've wrecked her fragile ego. But at least she had TALENT!

She also had the satisfaction of seeing the Shaw/Turner marriage fall apart within months. Lana described it as pure hell.

Judy had a pretty face and talent to burn. Her real problem was her awkward, barrel-shaped body. She just couldn't compete with the statuesque beauties favored by MGM.

R208, I don't know if Ava ever had a crack at any of them but Lana also had affairs with Tony Martin, Victor Mature, Robert Stack & Turhan Bey among many others! As far as looks go, she definitely had a type!

Lana & drummer Gene Krupa were also hot & heavy for a short time. Anita O'Day, who became famous singing with the Gene Krupa Orchestra in the 1940s wrote about the fling in her memoirs. She said that Gene had a plain, loyal wife of almost a decade named Ethel, who had supported him and remained faithfully by his side during the lean years. But when Gene saw that he had a chance with Lana Turner, he left his wife without batting an eyelash. They divorced in 1942. The romance with Lana fizzled out shortly after that.

Gene got busted for pot in 1943. He eventually had to disband his orchestra & served a short jail sentence. Because of his issues with the law he was temporarily unable to work. In one year he went from one of the top Big Band leaders to being all washed up.

But Ethel Krupa still loved him. She had saved her divorce settlement; and used it to bail her ex-husband out of jail & pay his lawyer fees. The two eventually remarried in 1946 and remained married until her death sometime in the late 50s.

[quote] by no measure was Lake an actress at all, let alone a good one. She was stiff, unnatural, clumsy with line readings, glanced at the cameras sometimes, and often had inappropriate facial reactions and vocal tone that did not match the dialogue.

What are you yammering about? Lake is wonderful in Sullivan’s Travels, I Married a Witch, and So Proudly We Hail. She’s also moody, forthright and sexy in all the Alan Ladd pairings... even if they were only initially paired because they were both midgets.

Basically, she comes across as alive while Turner seemed embalmed at an early age.

I don't know if I admire Ethel Krupa or think she's a total idiot.

Of course, Kim Basinger won an Oscar playing a Veronica Lake wannabe.

No one wants to play Lana Turner - there’s little there to work with. Playing a marshmallow would be more rewarding.

R214, Ava did indeed have a go with Turhan Bey. And she may have also had Johnny Stompanato. I wouldn't be surprised if Lana and Ava compared notes since they shared so many lovers.

Ava dated Sinatra and Robert Mitchum simultaneously. Both men were married, but that never stopped Ava. When Mitchum found out about Sinatra, he was out of there. Mitchum didn't want anything to do with Sinatra: "Get into a fight with him, and he won't stop until one of you is dead."

Robert Mitchum was incredibly sexy... but I wonder if he was good in bed.

I kind of get the sense he’d fall asleep on top of you, stoned.

Lana to Ava: "You need to try Johnny. He's got a humungous cock and knows how to use it."

Ava to Lana: "Oooh. I'll schedule him for Saturday."

Seems like Mitchum could have beaten up Sinatra. Wasn't Sinatra really skinny, actually?

OP, I agree.

Don't get her.

But she seemed like a nice lady.

R221, Yes, but Sinatra had goons who could break your legs or worse.

I was looking for a connection between the delicious Steve Cochran and either Lana or Ava. Couldn't find anything.

Surely Joan took it for a spin when they filmed "The Damned Don't Cry" in 1950. But then again, that film also starred Richard Egan & David Brian, who were also both worth a roll or two in the hay.

[quote]What are you yammering about?

Pretending like you don't understand what I said doesn't make a good comeback, it makes you look like you have trouble comprehending the English language.

I miss the days when you could disagree with someone on DL and they didn't immediately spiral into petulance and immaturity.

Hadn't Artie just gone out on a date with Judy a day before he eloped with Lana Turner? This is attributed to Lana but it sounds like third-hand info, honestly, and I can't find the original source.

[quote]I read someplace that Judy Garland, then seventeen, had had a serious crush on Artie [Shaw]. She had gone out with him days before I did and hoped he was getting serious. The morning after we eloped, she was eating breakfast in bed when she saw the headlines, and immediately burst into tears. Later that day Phil Silvers got an angry phone call from Betty Grable, who was in love with Artie and getting a divorce. "That son of a bitch," she told Phil, "who does he think he is?"

She was a c*** and an inferior actress to all the hard working actresses of my era. That's why I had her fired from MY show. The wolfman from Dark Shadows, I forget his name, thought so as well. Lorenzo is actually her son.

Weren't all these Hollywood fuck bunnies suffering from VD? I mean how did Lana manage to take so many hot loads from so many different hot hung studs and not get every disease known to mankind?

[quote]I miss the days when you could disagree with someone on DL and they didn't immediately spiral into petulance and immaturity.

I've been here since 2003 and do not remember anything like that. You must be mistaken.

I think in general they weren’t having sex with multiple men every week. For one thing, they had to get up at 5:00 a.m. every day if they were filming. And there was still the stigma of being seen as slutty in that age, so they tended to date one guy at a time. That would help you monitor what diseases were coming in and going out.

Plus they often used condoms, as a pregnancy could fuck up your career.

^^ also, an actress of any stature would expect a guy to be dating only them. If they heard he was seeing others I imagine they’d drop him.

(just generalizing)

I'm not sure if I buy the condom thing. Most studios had abortion doctors on speed dial. Why do you think so many of those classic actresses either never had kids or had difficulties having the kid(s) they did have, all those abortions.

Even today, abortions are a big emotional and physical (and sometimes even financial) deal to get. No woman thinks “I’ll [italic]just[/italic] get an abortion.” It’s surgery!

Yes, women got abortions back then but it was a last resort. Not to mention they were illegal, life threatening, and could leave you barren. It would be different if the morning after pill had existed, but it didn’t.

Watch the Demi Moore episode of IF THESE WALLS COULD TALK (1996) if you want a fuller picture.

It’s the first 40 mins, and it’s the rare solid acting job from her:

[quote]R232 I'm not sure if I buy the condom thing.

Women tried to use condoms because venereal disease is often harder to detect in women than men if you’re monitoring yourself. If untreated it could cause sterility... which wasn’t exactly most women’s dream.

"Abortions were our birth control"

R201... you are so right.... when i watch "the trouble with angels" with hayley mills, i'm alway struck by the end of the movie when the girls have graduated from HIGH SCHOOL, so around 17, 18 at the most, and all of them are dressed like full grown women, with suits and hats and gloves and so on....the movie was made in 1966....

different time.....

Yes, r235, actresses got abortions back then. But that doesn’t mean they didn’t try to prevent getting pregnant in the first place.

And we should differentiate between the 1920s, 30s, 40s and 50s. I think in the 1930s you could buy condoms in a drug store. Certainly by the 40s you could. And they had been promoted in WWI.... just as women weren’t wild about an unwanted pregnancy, men didn’t want to risk becoming a father (or infected) every time they had sex.

There were lots of pregnancies, but they were something many people tried to avoid.

I'm not saying it wasn't possible. I just find it hard to believe that some of those guys were using condoms back then or any of them spent a lot of time thinking about STIs. But I wasn't there, so maybe there were condoms all over the place. My guess is that most of them pulled out and if pregnancy happened they called a fixer.

The men pulled out? Where the A List glamour stars all getting facials?

I always like Lana's performance in Peyton Place for which she nominated for an Oscar.

Maria Riva wrote in her biography of her mother Marlene Dietrich that Dietrich would always douche after sex. She also wrote that Dietrich didn't like her men to use condoms, and they were so happy that they didn't have to. So condoms were definitely a thing in the 30s.

Condoms have been sold in drugstores since the late 19th century. They were discreetly referred to as rubber goods and the pharmacist kept them under the counter.

Hollywood was a much smaller place back then, and everybody fucked everybody.

A town of DISEASE RIDDEN WHORES!

[quote]R241 Maria Riva wrote in her biography of her mother Marlene Dietrich that Dietrich would always douche after sex.

Half her partners were women, so that must have cut down on the water bills.

R79 I was always surprised that Rita Hayworth had zero interest in Tyrone Power when they made Blood and Sand together. She had an affair with Anthony Quinn during that shoot, even her husband at the time told her that at least she could have fucked the leading man Power, not the supporting actor, Quinn! That’s all he was angry about, that his wife was fucking men who didn’t have enough power or connections at the time. Rita later slept with many of her leading men like Victor Mature and she had an affair with Glenn Ford for years. Maybe she heard Ty was bi and it turned her off? I only wonder because every other leading lady seems to have been crazy about him. Rita was probably the only exception.

[quote]Even today, abortions are a big emotional and physical (and sometimes even financial) deal to get. No woman thinks “I’ll just get an abortion.” It’s surgery!

Are you crazy? Regular women were more concerned with finding a doctor to do it and being able to raise the $$$. I know this because my mother and her friends talked about it - in the 1960s. There was no pro-life movement drumming the fear of god into people. It was a desperate decision, but all this emotional and physical stress bullshit was not part of it for most.

It's not "physical stress bullshit," for the love of god. Weren't you the same person who said earlier that the reason so many actresses couldn't have kids was because of the abortions? That's because they caused permanent damage. A lot of women died from it.

Just a regular D&C causes bleeding and cramping for days.

Birth control was also unreliable. There were douches,diaphragms, and condoms. Condoms were only useful if the man happened to be carrying one and was willing to use it. Pharmacists would not sell them to women. They were stigmatized as something only whores carried around.

Douching was extremely common as a haphazard means of birth control (and not merely about maintaining "freshness").

The original play script of the women makes a jokey reference to a "diamond-studded douchebag."

sorry, "The Women" not the women.

Eldergays might remember that bag that hung on the back of the bathroom door. The one you never dared question the use of.

No, R248. If you did more talking to real people, you'd know more. Of course an abortion could be deadly that's why finding the a good MD was imperative. Btw, a D&C does NOT cause bleeding and cramping for days.

[quote]R247 I know this because my mother and her friends talked about it - in the 1960s.

Your mom and her friends had lots of abortions, and discussed them with you?

Odd.

Turner should have put her harlotry to good use and endorsed Lysol for post-coital douching... rather than plugging cigarettes, makeup etc.

You're wrong, R253. I don't know why people like you don't look these things up before posting, and save yourself some embarrassment.

[quote]R253 a D&C does NOT cause bleeding and cramping for days.

And how many have you had/performed?

The uterus has been SCRAPED, dumbass.

[quote] I think in general they weren’t having sex with multiple men every week.... [T]here was still the stigma of being seen as slutty in that age, so they tended to date one guy at a time. That would help you monitor what diseases were coming in and going out. Plus they often used condoms, as a pregnancy could fuck up your career.

IMO, these women probably did fuck around. Fear of stigma never stopped anyone from doing what they wanted to do. I doubt they were all dating "one guy at a time," monitoring their diseases, and using condoms "often."

Love all these gay men who go a lookin and Googling and become experts on women's health.

R256/R257, look up the symptoms for brain tumor, I'm sure you have one.

In the 1990's when there was talk about a feature bio-film on Lana Turner, Chery Crane (her daughter) wanted Madonna to play Lana.

A D&C causes cramping and bleeding for a few days afterwards. You said it didn't, R259, which is wrong. And now you're doubling down on your mistake? That's genuinely embarrassing.

Equally embarrassing is you begging "all these gay men" on DL to help you with your vaccine side effects in the Pfizer thread. We're good enough to make you feel better when you're nervous about a vaccine, but the second we point out you made a mistake, suddenly we're all assholes who know nothing about medicine, and your homophobia comes right out, doesn't it?

^^ well, I mean stars like Lana, Ava, Rita, etc. They dated lots of men, and they had 1 night stands, but from reading various biographies etc. my sense is once they were having sex with a guy, that became their partner (even if it was just for 3 months.)

Joan Crawford was a whole other story, of course.

^^ for

[quote]r258 I doubt they were all dating "one guy at a time," monitoring their diseases, and using condoms "often."

Many of the stars went to European hospitals to get their abortions done because they could obviously afford that luxury, of course they officially called it a “medical procedure” or claimed exhaustion/anemia/dehydration if the press found out they were checked into a hospital. Rita Hayworth went to France to abort Glenn Ford’s baby after they finished filming The Loves of Carmen in 1947.

Wasn't Louella Parsons' husband the head doctor at one of the leading LA hospitals in the 1930s and 40s? That might clearly be a reason the ladies went all the way to Europe for their abortions.

R265 He was a urologist who specialized in venereal diseases. There are claims that Parson’s husband performed many of the stars’ abortions.

R265 “ Hollywood Physician

Martin moved to Los Angeles in 1919. He was a urologist [5] who specialized in the treatment of venereal disease. He became medical director of Twentieth Century Fox studios in 1937. He performed abortions and dispensed stimulant drugs to the actors, as needed, to keep them alert while films were being shot.[6]”

R261, not very good, not even slightly witty by Datalounge standards.

Wasn't Sinatra's mother, Dolly, a notorious abortionist?

Lana Turner was a great good-time gal. She loved to party, drink and fuck!

Rex Reed told a story about an OLD drunk petite blonde actress from Classic Hollywood slithering across the kitchen floor in a zebra print bodysuit, begging her hairdresser to fuck her. In the morning!! That was Lana Del Turner. Truly a talentless, dumb whore. Barely more than pretty - she was a GOOD FUCK.

R271 or anyone else, where can Rex Reed's juiciest, most dishy writings about Classic Hollywood Stars be found?

Dolly was an abortionist and a midwife. Midwives knew how to safely deliver a baby and how to not. Sometimes another baby for an immigrant family was catastrophic and women would go into severe depressions because there was literally no money for another child nor was there time and energy for their care. Dolly knew this and handled it.

WARNING: Rex Reed lies and embellishes. It's his trademark, or was.

He also wrote that A Little Night Music was the most stylish movie musical since Gigi.

Here's Lana's in-depth, 5 part interview from 1982 with Bryant Gumbel.

Clark Gable got Loretta Young pregnant when they were working on the film Call of the Wild. (Rumor has it that the sex was not really consensual--it was essentially date rape.) Loretta, a committed Catholic, would not have an abortion, and Gable couldn't marry her--he already had a wife. Young spent much of her pregnancy in Europe and then came back to give birth in CA. The daughter, Judy, was temporarily put in an orphanage in San Francisco. After some time passed, Young went there and 'adopted' her own daughter.

Judy Lewis looked a lot like her father, even down to his famous ears. At first, her mother put hats on Judy to hide those tale-tell signs of Gable's paternity; Young then had Judy's ears pinned when she was 7. Judy didn't find out who her father was until she was going to get married and told her fiance that she wasn't sure she could marry him, as she didn't know who she was or who her father really was. He told her he couldn't help with her identity issues, but that everybody (except her) knew that her father was Clark Gable.

When Judy wrote a memoir about her childhood and revealed the truth, her mother refused to speak to her for 3 years.

Old Hollywood was possibly even more fucked up than modern Hollywood.

R265, Louella was married to a proctologist. Carole Lombard called him “old velvet finger.”

Darwin Porter's book about Lana and her many lovers is a lot of fun, and sounds somewhat plausible (aside from the ridiculous 'dialogue' that he cuts and pastes).

Speaking of 'if these walls could talk': I lived in an old rundown rural farmhouse in the late 1970s. At that time it was a hippie group house, but I later learned that it had been a clinic of an OB-GYN who did illegal abortions. He would stash his patients in the rooms for a couple of days to recover. One of the rooms that was my bedroom had been the 'medical' room where he did the procedures.

Dear Lord in heaven!

R279, Darwin Porter may be fun, but he's a total fabricator. Lies and stupid stories.

Lana did crawl across the kitchen floor in a zebra bodysuit, begging to get fucked. Reeking of vodka That's well documented. It happened on many days. She wasn't one to flash gentleman, she wanted them to see her shape and animal grace. Plus she had a failed pantyhose lift that left red and keloid scars circling her toneless thighs. She thought her feet were pretty and her hair was always did. I think she liked being taken through the back hole. She liked to fight a man off. RIP.

r282 is full of shit.

There was no question that Clark Gable was Judy Lewis' biological father, the resemblance was so strong. Lewis looked like a female version of Gable.

r282 may or may not be full of shit, but he sure has a way with words: "... her hair was always did".

The Loretta Young story is sad. She was 22, a devout Catholic, and a virgin when she made Call of the Wild. She flirted with the married Gable on location but assumed he realized they wouldn't consummate anything. On the train back to LA, he went into her sleeping compartment in the middle of the night--and that's how they got Judy.

Over 60 years later, she realized what had actually happened that night:

[quote]Young loved to watch Larry King Live, which is most likely what prompted her to first ask her friend, frequent houseguest, and would-be biographer, Edward Funk, and then her daughter-in-law, Linda Lewis, to explain the term “date rape.” As Lewis recalled from her Jensen Beach, Florida, home this April, sitting next to her husband, Chris — Young's second born — and flanked by Young's Oscar and Golden Globe, it took a tact to explain, in language that an 85-year-old could understand, what “date rape” meant. “I did the best I could to make her understand,” Lewis said. “You have to remember, this was a very proper lady." When Lewis was finished describing the act, Young's response was a revelation: “That's what happened between me and Clark.”

The article describes the encounter like this:

[quote]When 20th Century finally called the [Call of the Wild] home in February, Young thought their flirtation would come to a natural end. For the overnight train back to Hollywood, the stars were given individual sleeping compartments, while the crew, including Young’s companion, were seated and sleeping elsewhere on the train. At some point in the night, Gable entered Young’s compartment. Young never spoke of the specifics of what occurred to anyone — not to her sisters, mother, husbands, or children — until decades later.

IDK if I'd call that date rape: Entering a girl's sleeping compartment and forcing yourself on her sounds like rape-rape to me.

[quote] The Loretta Young story is sad. She was 22, a devout Catholic, and a virgin when she made Call of the Wild.

Now R286, not to dismiss or excuse Loretta's possible rape in any way; but I should point out that Loretta had already been married before 1935. In 1930 a then 17 year old Loretta Young married a much older (and hunky) actor named Grant Withers. They were married for a few years before divorcing in late 1931. Loretta then went on to date several beaus, which may or may not have been studio arranged

Of course I can't prove this but I doubt highly that she was still a virgin in 1935. But carry on.....

Fair enough, R287--I didn't brush up on Young's bio before posting, and I should have. According to Wikipedia, she annulled the first marriage and then had an affair with Spencer Tracy, though she claimed the affair was unconsummated. Given Tracy's rep, that is a little hard to believe . . .

Frank Sinatra's mother ran an illegal abortion clinic while he was growing up in Hoboken, NJ.

Wasn't Sinatra's mom Italian like him and therefore Catholic?

Catholic's invented abortion. Lana performed her own abortions with a crochet hook and a gin douche.

When Cheryl Crane suggested Madonna play her mother, Lana was absolutely opposed as she found Madonna disgusting.

Ironically Madonna has been going around the last couple of years with her "Madame X" persona. But frankly Lana played Madame X much better.

the catholic Church didn't really concern itself with abortion until well into the 20th century. Sinatra's mother came from a different age.

It looks like no one has mentioned The Big Cube yet, unsurprisingly, but it's one of my favorite trash psychotronic films from the 60s.

"Madame X?" I preferred the sequel.

[quote]R292 When Cheryl Crane suggested Madonna play her mother, Lana was absolutely opposed as she found Madonna disgusting.

Lana’s choice to play her in a proposed TV movie was Audrey Landers... which gives an indication of her taste level.

Sorry to chime in here at the end, but I'm straight and I don't get Lana Turner. My favorite bit in La Confidential is when the Russell Crowe character insults the "real" Lana as a whore in that lounge scene. I think her kind of looks just went out of favor when I was in my adolescence or something.

She’s not a very lasting star, looking back, because most of her films were trash.

She was fired from the two good films she could have made (Anatomy of a Murder / From Here to Eternity) because she wanted her military wife characters to wear designer clothes.

I would've made a great Lana Turner.

[quote] She’s not a very lasting star, looking back, because most of her films were trash.

This is completely untrue. Lana starred in her share of films that are considered "Classics". I'd say that "The Postman Always Rings Twice", "The Bad And The Beautiful", "Peyton Place" and "Imitation Of Life" are all memorable & highly regarded .

And I wouldn't call most of her other films "trash" either. Lightweight Entertainment perhaps, but still highly entertaining. Just off the top of my head I can tell you that "Dramatic School", "These Glamour Girls", "Dancing Coed", "Slightly Dangerous, "Marriage Is A Private Affair", "Keep Your Powder Dry", "A Life Of Her Own", "Portrait In Black" & "By Love Possessed" are all pleasant, lightweight entertainment that any Classic Movie fan would enjoy.

[quote] She was fired from the two good films she could have made (Anatomy of a Murder / From Here to Eternity) because she wanted her military wife characters to wear designer clothes.

If this is true, it sounds like the "From Here To Eternity" producers were a bit fickle and unsure of exactly who they wanted to use as a leading lady until the very last minute. Negotiations with Joan Crawford also fell through at the last minute over wardrobe. I'd love to know the full story of that film's per-production casting process.

Lana was never considered for From Here to Eternity. Before Deborah Kerr landed the role of Karen Holmes, Rita Hayworth and Joan Crawford were offered the part. She was offered the Lee Remick role in Anatomy of a Murder, but had a wardrobe dispute with Otto Preminger and backed out. Lana did turn down Mogambo (the Ava Gardner part) because she didn't want to go to Kenya to film on location. She chose Flame and the Flesh, which was to be filmed in Rome. She later regretted that decision but said Ava Gardner was wonderful in Mogambo.

[quote]Wasn't Sinatra's mom Italian like him and therefore Catholic?

I don't know the background of the person who asked this question, but most American Catholics did not adhere to Catholic teachings. One went to Mass and went on their way doing whatever they wanted, though girls were expected to be virgins until marriage (lots weren't).

has the argument between HOW Lana's name was pronounced ever been settled?...

R303, it's pronounced Lah-nah.

Yes, Lah-na, as in "lah-de-da" not "lady".

Atook a luna Lana? Haha

"Lana" means wool in Spanish and Italian.

Lana's birth name was Judy, Judy's birth name was Frances, Joan's birth name was Lucille, but Ava's birth name was Ava. Which she originally pronounced 'ah-vuh God-nuh' until MGM gave her elocution lessins.

Lana Turner is a great, sexy name. Whoever came up with it was smart. Judy's birth name was Frances Ethel Gumm, and the family called her 'Baby.' No wonder she changed her own name to Judy in her early teens and refused to answer to anything else until the family finally gave in.

[quote]R300 This is completely untrue... “Peyton Place" and "Imitation Of Life" are all memorable & highly regarded .

If you don’t grasp that those two soap operas are flimsy trash then I don’t know what to tell you.

Ava Gardner was Ava's real name. I was surprised to find that out. Seems like they all changed their names.

Full name: Ava Lavinia Gardner.

Marlene Dietrich was born Maria Magdelene Deitrch and she combined her first and middle name into Marlene when she was a child. She was one of the few who didn't change it. Bette Davis was Ruth Elizabeth Davis, but she was always called Bette from the time she was very young.

So you changed your name and thought that would change everything.

what do we think of Lana's Bad and the Beautiful driving scene?

Most Italian Catholics even in the mid 20th century were cafeteria Catholics. Even those who believed deeply in their faith. I think it was the Irish who were much more concerned with doing everything the Vatican said.

I remember when I was very young my conservative Italian grandmother who went to church and prayed constantly laughed when my uncle was talking about the hypocrisy of priests who were found having sex in hotel rooms (with women.) She was like well what are they supposed to do?

Okay... that was absurd, R314. Poor Lana--she may have thought she was having an Academy Award moment right there with her hissy-fit behind the wheel. I saw TBATB years ago--it's no wonder I have little memory of it.

Lana's limitations aside, it's really Kirk Douglas who borders on self-parody in that scene. Just excruciating. The salt in the wound is that there are film buffs (and critics and film historians--hello, TMC!) who regard Douglas as a first-rate actor, whereas almost no regards Lana that way.

A bit off-topic but related is this fascinating 19th c. NYC abortionist Mme Restell. To the poster upthread who lived in a former abortion house was it in NYC at 5th Ave and 52 Street?

R308: Lana wasn't a Judy. Her birth name was Julia Jean Turner.

Fun Fact: Lana Turner was born with two vaginas.

R319 correct. But she went by Judy.

The lesson in the driving scene is don't have an emotional breakdown behind the wheel. I can't figure out whether she is hysterical because she nearly crashes or because of the scene with Kirk. To give Kirk his due, that is about the only scene in the film when he goes all out like that. Otherwise he is pretty subdued.

A woman with two vaginas going by the name of Judy, r320???

[quote]r314 what do we think of Lana's Bad and the Beautiful driving scene?

It is competent - no more, no less.

Can we talk about her frozen face throughout the entire first part of the clip, with Kirk Douglas? This woman is not a responsive actress.

Lana was not even convincing as drunk 60 year old crawling across her own kitchen floor in a zebra print catsuit - begging to be told she was s e x y. She had a lot of men fuck her when she was young but saved herself for back hole action with "men" who could also do good hair & makeup as she aged.

Terrible actress. Not even an actress. She was most likely a killer though. Get em Lana. She really knew how to hold her liquor. Flat asses were in style when Lana had a bit of booty. The ass fuck is always in style.

r324 needs his Throazine before he starts screaming about "ancient white fags" for the millionth time.

No need to call people f@gs R325. What's your damage?

Stop being coy r325/26 you're the "ancient white fags troll" who stinks up nearly every thread about female singers and actresses. We see you.

Huh? First I'm not ancient. Second I don't know much about Lana Turner movies, because who would?

But I do know a lot about her sad last days. That lasted for over 15 years. Crawling on the floor and pretend whispering to be a lady. A grotesque woman. One of the original whores of Hollywood.

Why are you calling posters "old white fags" R327? That only applies to some people here. I'm not old or white. You got the wrong guy.

R328, you're actually serious with this "crawling around on the floor in a leopard print catsuit begging young men for cock" nonsense? Did anyone else besides Rex Reed report on those so called "sad last days?

r328 is the "ancient white fags" poster who always shows up in threads about female stars. He's also a "world renowned music teacher and musician" or some shit. He's a total loser asshole and just put him on ignore. Don't waste your time.

Why are you posting slanderous remarks R330? Stop calling people old f*g* please. Think of the dead children still living in your diseased cavity since 1971. I hear that's what Lana went on about when she was crawling around sometimes. SAD. But it's always selfish in the end, R330.

F&F R330! Do it now. He shits all over this site and THEN gets off on shit. Name calling. Libel. He's that guy who poisons everything, because he's an old man who is poisoned inside.

May Jesus visit healing to your trouble spots this night R330.

Amen.

^^worthless loser

R331 = new to Datalounge

r326, they are obviously saying R324 is about to use the word, can you not understand context? He's explained this to you clearly.

I don't know that R324 is the "ancient white fags" troll but we have one, and he writes in a similarly florid style, until he gets all worked up and or/drunk and then suddenly it's "ancient white fags" time for him.

That's not to say R324 isn't a troll, he's one of those DLers who acts relatively normal for a while and then flips his lid and gets offensive, so it's a bit rich that he's accusing someone else of being that exact same kind of troll. But you're trolling too, at R331, it's just ridiculous. You know that HE also goes around calling people "old" as an insult, just like you did, right? You're two peas in a pod and you don't even realize it.

Stop screaming and making things worse, your hysterical escalation is unnecessary, especially when you're not understanding what's even going on.

dubbed

"Clark Gable got Loretta Young pregnant when they were working on the film Call of the Wild. (Rumor has it that the sex was not really consensual--it was essentially date rape.)"

Long after Gable, Young and their daughter were dead, some relative of Young's (daughter-in-law? It wasn't a close relative) came out with a story that went like this. Young saw some tv show about date rape and suddenly said "That's what Clark did to me." Therefore her illegitimate pregnancy was not due to consensual sex, it was due to rape, making saintly Loretta innocent of premarital, illicit sex. The story seems implausible, to say the least. And that's all the proof there is that she was date raped; the claims of a relative who waited until all the principles in the situation were dead to come out with the tale. It was an obvious, concerted effort to make it seem like Loretta Young, that saintly Catholic, was blameless for her pregnancy. Of course she would NEVER want to have consensual sex with...CLARK GABLE. Hah!

At any rate, watch the film they did together, "Call of the Wild." Their chemistry is obvious. The director of the film said their affair affected the filming of the movie; Clark Gable was always slipping away to tend to "monkey business (his affair with Young) " instead of the the business of filmmaking.

Loretta Young cultivated the image of a devout Catholic and I guess her relatives want to perpetuate that image. But it was said that "her assumption of the robe of moral rectitude resulted in her being dubbed "Attila the Nun." Also "the chocolate covered black widow, "The Steel Butterfly", "Hollywood's beautiful hack", and "The Manipulator" and "the willow with an Iron backbone." Kenneth Anger did a chapter about her in "Hollywood Babylon II" that documented her affair with Gable, and her hypocrisy.

Well, I myself can see it. She was an alcoholic for a time, there. Then she found Jebus.

R426, R326, R328 and R331 all are, indeed, the poster you cite, R331.

This faux-black, disordered, racist troll has been a pest for years. The poor thing rages and has created an entire set of bios for imaginary posters and "identifies" others as these people.

Like "It," the poster lurks in the sewer and pops up to try to cause harm. Yes, I do think the appropriate personal pronoun AND identifier is "It" for this particular offender.

Loretta Young was widely disliked by her contemporaries in Hollywood. Dietrich, Crawford, Stanwyck etc. They all thought she was phony, sanctimonious and annoying.

I pray for your healing R338. Sure as we must warn the proper people of your threats and disordered mind. Free yourself of your constant racist hate posts, all over this site. They cannot be allowed to continue. Your paranoid delusions regarding posters who see you clearly, may in the end be your salvation. May Jesus visit healing upon your troubled mind this night. Put DOWN the bottle. Rest. Amen

R339 For how famous Loretta Young was during her day, she's pretty much practically forgotten today, isn't she?

I used to be really into old Hollywood films and I think I've only seen about 4 of Loretta Young's films (The Stranger, Love is News, Employees' Entrance and The Bishop's Wife).

[quote] dubbed

Yes, R335, Dubbed by Fran Warren no less! Who at that time was one of the Top Female Vocalists in the country. Miss Warren had the original hit with 'Sunday Kind of Love' in the late 40s, having helped make it the "standard" it remains today.

Lana made the unwatchable "Mr. Imperium" during the last 5 years of so of her MGM contract. During which time the studio had pretty much given up on her and threw her into anything. (Studio Head) Dore Schary figured that with her Star Power & Technicolor, audiences would flock to see her in just about anything. They didn't.............

After the fact, Mr. Imperium was considered so unimportant that MGM never even bothered to renew their copyright for it! And it eventually slipped into public domain. That's why for years you'd see (horrible prints) of it sold in bargain VHS/DVD bins everywhere.

This article goes into the many ambiguities in the Young-Gable relationship. It's a very strange story.

R341, you should see "The Farmer's Daughter" (1947), with Joseph Cotten and Ethel Barrymore -- Loretta Young won an Oscar for Best Actress.

[quote]For how famous Loretta Young was during her day, she's pretty much practically forgotten today, isn't she?

She really is.

[quote] For how famous Loretta Young was during her day, she's pretty much practically forgotten today, isn't she?... I used to be really into old Hollywood films and I think I've only seen about 4 of Loretta Young's films.

I’ve only seen her in one mystery caper where she rented a basement apartment with her new husband. It and she were charming, if a little forgettable. But I don’t seek out her stuff because her personality is very mild and, frankly, boring. Lana Turner comes across the same way - she just seems like a BORING person. There’s no light or personality in her eyes.

Young and Turner aren’t discussed much because as lightweight actresses they weren’t sought after for very many demanding films. They were attractive women who were put in one run-of-the-mill project after another that called for a “pretty lady”. It’s not like many producers and directors sat around and said, “You know who we’ve GOT to get?? LORETTA YOUNG!!” And I doubt many said that about Turner, either. They just don’t fire creative imagination.

For example, Lana Turner was originally considered for Vincent Minelli’s MADAM BOVARY, but then they eventually realized there was no way in hell Turner could play a forceful, classical role like that. So it was back to her usual undemanding roles.

Both Young and Turner are better remembered for their public lives/personas than their actual work.

Loretta was a fashion icon...

Much as I like old movies, I don't think I've ever seen Loretta Young. I do recall reruns of Yong's tv show. She seems to have been in the second rung of A-listers. I have seen Turner's films and the great thing about her is that although she wasn't much an actress, her presence on the screen usually meant trouble, which is a helpful thing for a not great actress and it definitely advances the plot.

Yes, all I remember about Loretta Young's illustrious career are her gorgeous clothes and fashion twirls at the top of "The Loretta Young Show."

Loretta Young did have a beautiful face.

Her toothy grin was a big distraction--what big choppers you have, Loretta. Also, she clearly stuffed her bra--her cup size is different in every entrance.

She didn't take much of a chance going into television. She knew the studio system was dying and that her career was probably finished.

[quote] [R339] For how famous Loretta Young was during her day, she's pretty much practically forgotten today, isn't she?

R341, I'm not R339 but I can tell you that Loretta Young was HUGE in her day. She was a fair actress, was known as the ultimate clotheshorse and had one of the most enduring Leading Lady film careers, which that lasted from the mid 20s (Silents) until the Early 50s.

She then prolonged her stardom by producing (along with her husband) & starring in a long-lasting hit television show, "The Loretta Young Show". One of the first film stars to do so, at a time when TV was considered a step down (fall from grace) from films. The show was famous for Loretta's dramatic entrances each episode, in which she'd twirl into her drawing room through french doors wearing a glamorous gown.

Part of the reason Loretta Young is somewhat forgotten today is her own doing. She actually SUED a TV Network to prevent her shows from being rerun through syndication, and won. Her reason, she couldn't bear for her public to see her in outdated gowns! SMH.

[quote] I used to be really into old Hollywood films and I think I've only seen about 4 of Loretta Young's films (The Stranger, Love is News, Employees' Entrance and The Bishop's Wife).

Like R344 said, I'd start with her charming, Oscar-winning turn in "The Farmer's Daughter". Then I'd seek out "They Call It Sin", "Born To Be Bad" (playing against type), "The Lady From Cheyenne'", "And Now Tomorrow" (a personal favorite), "Key To The City" (a fun reunion with Gable), "Because Of You" (a good tearjerker) and (my all-time favorite Loretta Young film) "Cause For Alarm".

Loretta and her sisters were all beauties.

I looked up Young's filmography on Wikipedia, and I don't see a single iconic role for her in all of her movies. No iconic movies, either--the closest might be the Bishop's Wife, but that film belongs to Cary Grant. There's no Gone With the Wind or Postman Always Rings Twice or the Barefoot Contessa on her resume. It might explain why she's not remembered today.

They were, R354, but Loretta was certainly the most telegenic. Even pictured with 3 other similar-looking beauties, she stands out.

[quote]Hadn't Artie just gone out on a date with Judy a day before he eloped with Lana Turner? This is attributed to Lana but it sounds like third-hand info, honestly, and I can't find the original source.

I found the source, the story is from an Artie Shaw biography: [italic]Artie Shaw, King of the Clarinet: His Life and Times[/italic]

pages 134-137

I never thought Clark Gable was attractive. First I heard he had bad breath (halitosis), now I hear he raped Loretta Young. Disgusting.

The biographies of Judy Garland I've read class the relationship as platonic. Judy had a raging crush on Artie and they did go out on 'dates' together, but Artie said he thought of her as a little sister and never would have had sex with her. Judy had convinced herself that Artie would come around eventually but had a rude awakening when he eloped with Lana.

I think you're wrong, r353. I think it was just her entrances at the beginning she wanted removed. She really did do some diverse work on that show. Plenty of the noble and nun-like (sometimes actual nun) roles, but there was one where she's an alcoholic that stands out for me.

R357 is in response to R226.

Shaw didn’t marry Lana the day after a date with Judy, it was a few days.

[quote]R358 First I heard Gable had bad breath, now I hear he raped Loretta Young. Disgusting.

No one raped St. Loretta, for god’s sake.

She was actually quite tough, and would have personally destroyed any man who tried that.

Judy was not a good looking woman. But a known liar for sure. I believe Artie Shaw that Garland had a crush on him, but he never was interested in her. He was only attracted to beautiful women.

[quote] I looked up Young's filmography on Wikipedia, and I don't see a single iconic role for her in all of her movies. No iconic movies, either--the closest might be the Bishop's Wife, but that film belongs to Cary Grant. There's no Gone With the Wind or Postman Always Rings Twice or the Barefoot Contessa on her resume. It might explain why she's not remembered today.

Probably the most highly regarded out of Young's films today are "The Farmer's Daughter", "The Bishop's Wife" and "The Stranger". But that doesn't mean she doesn't have her share of gems within her filmography. Like Lana Turner, she specialized in lightweight entertainment. And she excelled! You pretty much can't do wrong with most of her movies. They aren't Oscar worthy but you'll be entertained.

Two other entertaining Loretta films are Platinum Blond and Zoo in Budapest. Two fun pre code talkies.

R359, you don't know much about Clark Gable. He was one of the most well liked stars in Hollywood. He was irresistible to women. The idea of him "raping" anyone is laughable. Women came after HIM. The date rate story is just an attempt to shore up Loretta Young's reputation, which supposedly was sullied by an illegitimate pregnancy.

Young was quoted as saying this about Gable: “I think every woman he ever met was in love with him.” Would a woman say THAT about somebody who forced her into having sex?

Joan Blondell said this about him: “He affected all females, unless they were dead.” Clark Gable a date rapist? I don't think so.

[quote] I think you're wrong, [R353]. I think it was just her entrances at the beginning she wanted removed.

R360, you make be correct but I can guarantee you that I've read COUNTLESS Loretta Young biographies in which they say/suggest that she did not want an of the shows re-ran because of the outdated gowns. etc. This is from the article I've linked:

[italic] NBC aired re-runs of the show in the 1960s under the title The Loretta Young Theater. Young sued NBC in 1972, claiming that her contract was violated when the syndicated series was released, contrary to her contract, showing the star with outdated hairstyles and fashions. The star was awarded a reported $599,000 to settle the case.

If it was only the entrances Miss Young wanted removed, they never make that distinction.

[quote] She really did do some diverse work on that show. Plenty of the noble and nun-like (sometimes actual nun) roles, but there was one where she's an alcoholic that stands out for me.

I've seen several of the episodes and Miss Young did some legitimate dramatic acting on them, that wasn't always glamorous. When I described her reputation as a clotheshorse and her show entrances, in no way did I intend to suggest her show was merely fluff. If I'm not mistaken, I think she won several Emmys for her work on "The Loretta Young Show".

Gable still could have raped women. But I think it was in Young's case an excuse for the shame of having an illegitimate child. Young and Gable were two very attractive people who probably couldn't keep their hands off each other.

[quote] He was irresistible to women. The idea of him "raping" anyone is laughable.

Just because someone is super sexy and "irresistible" doesn't mean he's incapable of rape. Geez.

R369: Certainly. It's just that there aren't a lot of rapey stores about Gable. Loretta had been married and so she couldn't have brought off a virgin birth story.

Young clearly had complicated feelings about sex. She married young--probably so she could have 'legal' sex--and then managed to get it annulled soon after. She had what was apparently an emotional affair with Spencer Tracy that was never consummated. She flirted outrageously with Clark Gable during the location filming for Call of the Wild but again according to the Buzzfeed article thought it wouldn't result in anything physical.

She never gave details about what happened in that train compartment, so who knows? Perhaps he seduced her and she felt guilty. Maybe she jumped his bones and freaked out when she found out she was pregnant by a married man. Maybe he started off charming and then forced himself on her. Maybe he talked her into it and she felt like she couldn't say no. All the evidence we have is what she supposedly told her daughter-in-law more than 60 years after it happened: that it was 'date rape.'

I like Loretta in Cause for Alarm!...

Loretta was besties with Rosalind Russell and Irene Dune. She simply ran around in a different (and classier) social circle and didn't need friendships with those other ladies.

Personally, I think her best films are the pre-codes like Midnight Mary and She Had to Say Yes, in which she often played sexy working girls. She was extraordinarily beautiful back then.

It just doesn't seem plausible that Clark Gable was guilty of rape. Number one, women adored him; he would never have had to force any woman to have sex with him. And number two is that it would have been totally out of character for him to abuse a woman. He did not abuse women. He was, by all accounts, a GOOD man. Arthur Miller said he was "the man who did not know how to hate."

Good lord! Can you not believe that Loretta and Gable were heavily making out in a train berth and he decided to fuck her in spite of her protests? Isn't that date rape?

I'll agree that your second reason, that he was a good man who did not abuse women by any other accounts, as evidence in his favor. The first, that he was too popular with women to rape anyone, doesn't wash. A man used to having women throw themselves at him might be even more offended than most when a woman finally says no, particularly if she's been flirting with him for weeks ('leading him on' in the parlance of the day). Especially if, as R375 says, they were making out in her compartment and she didn't want to go any further.

What's the saying? A stiff dick has no conscience.

I don’t believe Clark Gable had a particularly high sex drive, either. (Not that rape is all about sex.)

Having read about him in a few books, it’s hard to imagine him impassioned enough to take someone by force.

I doubt that there was a big market for Loretta Young reruns in 1972. She may have wanted a payday as much as feeling offended because her hairdos had become hairdon'ts.

[quote]Loretta was besties with Rosalind Russell and Irene Dune. She simply ran around in a different (and classier) social circle and didn't need friendships with those other ladies.

Rosalind Russell was a good time gal and pretty earthy. Irene Dunne was a sanctimonious cunt just like Loretta. Give me Dietrich and Crawford any day.

[quote] It just doesn't seem plausible that Clark Gable was guilty of rape. Number one, women adored him; he would never have had to force any woman to have sex with him.

OMG. You can't just look at someone and predict whether or not he's capable of rape. People considered Ted Bundy very attractive, but obviously he was capable of sexual violence.

I meant to say that Rosalind Russell was more like Crawford than Dunne, she wasn't sanctimonious.

What a laugh for a bunch of 75 year old bathhouse gays who spent 4 nights a week for 20 years in a closet size darkened room with their ass UP in the air, taking most cummers. Or down on your knees at the glory hole, towel over the light. White striped sox and moustaches.

50 years later - now you're discussing the delicate virginity of Loretta fucking Lynn and Doolittle Gable? Both were hicks and of another time. Likely she was no whore and he most likely WAS rapey rapey.

Old gays are hilarious. Bath House Bettys. I've seen you in the porns with no sound, just music.

r382 = "ancient white fags" troll.

Russell, Dunne, & Young belonged to "Our Lady of The Cadillacs", the big Catholic Church in Beverly Hills. My sister insisted on stopping-in one day. We were surprised that it wasn't very big or air conditioned.

Loretta would have been better off accepting the quickie abortion the studio would definitely have arranged for her. The illegitimate pregnancy seemed to eat at her for the rest of her life.

In the same vein, I wonder why Turner only had one child despite marrying so many times? Was it all the abortions affecting her fertility?

Stop calling yourself names R383. Own who you are.🙏🏾

Loretta aged the very best...

Men had a different definition of rape back then. It wasn't even illegal for a husband to rape his wife in many states. If Loretta Young flirted with him for weeks on end, let him in her train compartment in the middle of the night and then changed her mind when he was rounding third base, Gable might have felt entitled to keep going. Many men of the era would have.

Lana had two stillborns.

Lana's first abortion was performed on a hotel bed without anesthesia. Her mother held her hand over Lana's mouth to stifle her screams.

Muriel should've taken care of your crazy ass long ago r386. You've been a shitstain on this forum for a long time.

I don't think Loretta Young said "no" to Clark Gable. Why would she? If she was fucking Spencer Tracy, then God knows she would have fallen for Gable, who was much more attractive.

R383 is really disturbed. I think he posts on the Drag Race threads too. Very hateful poster. Is he also R338 and R391? Weird guy. Is his name KELT? Or Miss Warwick? Both are banned from this site. He used to start all the race baiting threads on the weekends. Combined with his love of old movie queens. Ha. Sad case, regardless. Notice he always mentions shit? He's that guy too. Scat troll.

Rumor has it that Spencer Tracy had an affair with fifteen-year-old Judy Garland. Everyone at the studio knew about it, but Tracy was such a big star no one did anything. The book on Eddie Mannix (The Fixer) talks about it.

As the other poster said about r393:

[quote]This faux-black, disordered, racist troll has been a pest for years. The poor thing rages and has created an entire set of bios for imaginary posters and "identifies" others as these people.

[quote]Like "It," the poster lurks in the sewer and pops up to try to cause harm. Yes, I do think the appropriate personal pronoun AND identifier is "It" for this particular offender.

Just block and move on, guys. Don't let weirdos derail an interesting thread.

[quote]Lana had two stillborns.

Was one of them R388?

Why the insult, R397? I didn't say I agreed with that attitude about rape. But it was certainly one that many men of the era had.

Spencer Tracy had an affair with Judy Garland?! Now that is really going beyond the pale. I think that rumor probably started with poor Judy. She said that as a young teen at MGM all kinds of men who worked there were hot after her hunchbacked little bod. She said Louis B. Mayer wanted her. She said the munchkins wanted her. Judy was nuts. At any rate Judy Garland did NOT seem like Tracy's type. He had affairs with women like Loretta Young and Ingrid Bergman. I don't an unprepossessing 15 year old would have appealed to him.

Men love young pussy. Judy was also very charming and talented. That might have been enough for the men on the Lot to want to throw her a fuck or two.

R399, maybe it was when he was on one of his drunken stupors.

I don't think Spencer Tracy ever got drunk enough to want to fuck Judy Garland. I'm not even sure they ever met each other. I've read a lot of Judy bios and I don't remember him being mentioned in any of them. I recall Katherine Hepburn being mentioned in one of them, though. Seems she gave Judy a pep talk after one of her breakdowns.

R396 posted more than 120 times on the Drag Race thread #5 alone! More than 40 posts here! So we SHOULD block and move on. Isolate that poster and read it's vile, racist, and antiquated hate. All over this site. Old white man toxic cunt syndrome. Let it bleed out.

She was no Ann Miller (j'adore), but she had a sense of humor, and was a class act.

Lana had said that Tyrone Power was the great love of her life. But it never would've worked between them.

More from a Telegraph article on Tracy's toxic behavior:

[quote]Famous actresses the Oscar-winner bedded included Myrna Loy, Paulette Goddard, Hedy Lamarr, Loretta Young, Bette Davis, Gene Tierney, Joan Bennett, Olivia de Havilland, her sister Joan Fontaine and Joan Crawford. Mankiewicz seemed to take a vicarious pleasure in Tracy’s conquests, boasting that “nobody at MGM gets more sex than Spencer Tracy”. Tracy was also infatuated with the “innocent-looking” Ingrid Bergman. In 1940, he threatened to quit a role in Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde if Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer picked Lana Turner to play his love interest ahead of the 26-year-old Swedish beauty. Despite the fact that she was married, and had an infant daughter, he managed to seduce Bergman. The bosses at MGM artfully projected a public image of Tracy, by then 40, as the young starlet’s mentor. The studio had the pair photographed drinking milkshakes at a Beverly Hills ice cream parlour. Their fling was short-lived and Tracy soon embarked on the love affair of his life, with Katherine Hepburn.

[quote]Even a passionate affair with a famous actress such as Hepburn was not enough to satisfy his appetites, though. Irene Dunne, who starred with Tracy in the 1943 film A Guy Named Joe, recalled that she found him “rude and brusque”, and later admitted that he made a pass at her, without going into details. Film historian Alan Royle, author of Hollywood Warts ‘N’ All, said that during rehearsals for A Guy Named Joe, Tracy would whisper graphic details in Dunne’s ear about what the lurid things he would do to her if he ever got her alone. Dunne, who went on to fight for female contract rights in Hollywood, complained to MGM co-founder Louis B. Mayer about the harassment. Mayer visited the set and warned Tracy to leave her alone.

[quote]The most damning allegation about Tracy, though, concerns his predatory behaviour to the child star Judy Garland. In 1935, the 36-year-old visited the 13-year-old prodigy, who had just signed for MGM, on the set of a short film called La Fiesta de Santa Barbara. His behaviour seems like classic grooming. Tracy then “began sleeping with Garland when she was just 14,” according to E.J. Fleming, author of The Fixers: Eddie Mannix, Howard Strickling and the MGM Publicity Machine.

[quote]The allegations have been repeated elsewhere. A. Lertzman and William J. Birnes, authors of The Life and Times of Mickey Rooney, said that Rooney – who starred with Tracy in Boys Town – admitted to them that Garland confirmed that she slept with Tracy as a young teenager. “Mickey said everyone on the inside knew what Tracy was like. The public had no idea,” they wrote on a film blog.

[quote]He owed the bosses of the MGM publicity machine for making sure that his shameful behaviour was hushed up. They turned a blind eye to the fact that he continued sleeping with Garland for the next three years. “Eddie Mannix and Howard Strickling both knew the vile secret,” added Fleming. Mannix, a former bouncer and construction worker with mob connections, carried out Strickling’s orders to keep Tracy’s criminal behaviour out of the newspapers.

Bette Davis never fucked Spencer Tracy.

Wow, R403. You're right. That dude had posted hundreds of times on the Drag Race threads. Mostly all hate filled and racist posts! Hundreds and hundreds of posts. On every thread. But the OLD dude loves some old fish eyed movie queen named Loretta? Life is fascinating. I can't stand that low I.Q. scat troll who posts so much racist hate on this site then *s k i p s* over to swoon over dead movie queens and barbra streisand. Ha. It's almost too cliche.

r408 calling people "ancient white fags" on a gay forum is really something a vile shitstain would do.

r403 and r408 are the same "ancient white fags" poster, talking to himself. Muriel needs to do something about this troll. I've already flagged all his posts and sent them to Mediaopolis.

Lana lies throughout this 1982 "Donahue".

She WAS fucking around with Gable and there WAS tension between her and Jane Wyman on "Falcon Crest".

Your ubiquitous presence is already well known to Mediapolis, R410. You don't seem able to spell it though.

Put your concerns to the attention of Tony Travostino.

Attention: Tony Travostino @ Mediapolis. See R409. Again.

This is Judy Garland at age 14. If Tracy did fuck her then, he really was a sick fuck.

r412 your posts have been flagged and sent to Mediapolis. You are deflecting and accusing people of doing what you are actually doing. You've been a pest on this board for years and it's time to end it.

^ this is a desperate old man ^

I don't think Spencer Tracy fucked a lot of those actresses mentioned at R406, much less "groomed" Judy Garland and starting fucking her when she was 14. That book "The Fixer: Eddie Mannix, Howard Strickling and the MGM Publicity Machine" sounds like it's on a par with "Hollywood Babylon." So does "The Life and Times of Mickey Rooney." I think I heard that Rooney book claims that someone walked in on Rooney getting a blowjob from a 14 year old Elizabeth Taylor. Now does anybody believe THAT?

I think if Spencer Tracy had been involved in sexual shenanigans with the underage Judy Garland it would have been reported long before this. If Tracy had been fucking Garland Gerald Clarke would have surely mentioned it in his sleaze filled biography of Garland "Get Happy." In that biography he talks of Garland fellating her gay lovers under tables in restaurants and tells about Garland giving a blowjob to a lover who requests she sing a few bars of "Over the Rainbow", which she does "through a mouthful of semen." Yes, if Tracy had been screwing little Judy Garland Clarke would have LOVED to report that.

Spencer Tracy....Scotty Bowers said he was gay as a goose. And yet he was also seemingly an insatiable pussyhound who fucked all the MGM actresses with impunity. I wonder how he managed to do all THAT.

From Debbie Reynolds' autobiography . . .

Every year the Thalians give a ball to honor a star. I had a hard time getting someone for the Thalians thirtieth anniversary, in 1985. Finally Lana Turner said yes to me. Lana had been one of MGM’s biggest women stars, along with Elizabeth Taylor and Ava Gardner. It had been a couple of years since she’d had her featured role on the hit TV series Falcon Crest. The evening would be a tribute to her and her career—film clips from all her movies, an overture, everything. Bob and Margie Petersen agreed to chair the gala in the ballroom at the Century Plaza Hotel. Bob was the owner of the Petersen Automotive Museum of vintage cars and motorcycles in LA, and publisher of many car-themed magazines such as Hot Rod and Motor Trend, as well as the fan magazines Teen, Tiger Beat, and Sassy. Margie ran the popular Scandia restaurant on the Sunset Strip. Anthony Newley, the creator and star of Stop the World—I Want to Get Off, agreed to emcee; that year he also played the Mad Hatter in Steve Allen’s all-star version of Alice in Wonderland for CBS. Comedian Rip Taylor agreed to serve as our auctioneer. And Jackie Cooper, Danny Thomas, Robert Preston, Marvin Hamlisch, George Hamilton, Charlton Heston, Red Buttons, and Hal Linden would tell anecdotes about Lana.

The evening arrived. Among the celebrities in the audience were George Peppard, Tony Danza, Barbara Eden, Alex Trebek, Robert Stack, Lloyd Bridges, Zsa Zsa Gabor, Cesar Romero, Robert Culp, Jack Haley Jr., and Rhonda Fleming. My daughter, Carrie, was there as usual, and so was Lana’s daughter, Cheryl Crane, her only child. Cheryl was with her girlfriend, a beautiful woman. I was so startled; I’d never known that Cheryl was a lesbian. And then I was happy, because they seemed so happy. They were a lovely couple. Another thing I didn’t know until that night was that Lana was famous for not showing up. She was supposed to arrive at 7:00 P.M. Her apartment was only five or six blocks away. Time passed and we were all waiting. No Lana. So I called her. “I’m getting ready, dear, doing my hair,” she said. She had a young hairdresser—a really tall gay guy with white-blond hair; she was his friend until the end of her life. More time passed. I called again. “I’m just having a problem with my hair, dear. He’s making it more silvery. I’ll be a little late.” I kept calling, and she was still getting ready. And every time I called she was onto a “second” glass of wine. Lana could really drink to make herself happy. She was a very highly strung friend. She wasn’t like Ava Gardner. Ava was very down-to-earth, and not nervous at all. (No wonder Frank couldn’t win.) Lana was the opposite. She was very girlie and very feminine and very enchanting. She reminded me a little of Marilyn Monroe: sexy and girlie and childish. She adored men and she beguiled them. But now wasn’t the time for her to be getting drunk. I asked to speak to the hairdresser. “Are you guys drinking?” “We’re just visiting, just talking,” he said. I was upset, because he went along with her. He knew she had to get there. He should have opposed her drinking. Instead, he was having a good time with her.

“You have to get ready and come over right now,” I told him. He said they would. Finally it was 8:30. Showtime. “I don’t think I can come,” Lana said when I called. “I’m just too tired.” You bet I was angry. We were friends at MGM all those years, and she couldn’t get herself the few blocks to her own tribute? “Listen, Lana,” I said. “You need to get your ass over here. I’m coming to pick you up.” I got in the car and went to fetch her. Lana and the hairdresser had their coats on and were ready when I arrived. They were both smashed. When we finally got to the Century Plaza, we were so late that the press had left. We went in through the back door, just in time for Lana to receive her award. Even though she was drunk, Lana looked divine. She had on all her jewelry; a formfitting, glittering white-beaded gown; and a white fox cape around her shoulders with white fox tails hanging off the end. She was dazzling; simply spectacular. As she was walking—very carefully—to the microphone, one of the tails right behind her ass fell off, onto the floor. Rip Taylor was standing nearby. He picked it up and handed her tail to her. I’d been so angry with Lana, but then I started to laugh. It was like retribution. So Lana never saw the tribute to her—not that she would have seen much anyway, she was so drunk. She came to the party at the hotel afterward with Cheryl, still smashed, and met with people and was charming and gracious. And we all laughed about it.

Judy Garland, as a young teenager, was considered plain. While not exactly unattractive, she wasn't much to look at. I very much doubt that men were clamoring to fuck her, much less actors like Spencer Tracy It's never been noted anywhere that he had any interest in teenage girls, much less plain ones. Sounds like a crazy rumor about a dead celebrity to me. .

Judy never seemed to get much sex in her life.

Lana was more comfortable slithering or crawling across a stage at that time. Especially for her hairdresser. If only they had put the award on the floor or next to a toilet, she would have been on time!

R421, There were supposedly photos taken of her naked while she was unconscious in an Australian hospital ER, but they have never surfaced.

r422 keep shitposting, your time is limited.

Supposedly Judy Garland got a lot of sex. Men she has affairs with: Tyrone Power, Glenn Ford, Yul Brynner, Joseph Mankiewicz (she named little Joey after him), Oscar Levant. And of course there were all her gay boyfriends who had sex with her I guess just so they could say they had sex with Judy Garland. She also supposedly had sex with women. Towards the end of her life she had a sexual relationship with a female fan who was helping her out financially. Poor Judy. I think she'd fuck anything.

All you do is F&F people from your multiple devices old man fool @ R424. Don't threaten me, you rusty hole fuck. It's YOUR time that is limited. There is more than one of us complaining about you. Over and over. Again.

r426 you're insane and a racist troll and will be dealt with. Your bullshit does not belong here. Enjoy posting while you can, it's not going to be long.

Why does this man with hundreds of visible posts @r427, accuse a self identified Black man of being racist? R427 has hundreds of hateful posts on the RPDR threads alone that identify him as a racist and not mentally balanced individual. I don't understand why DataLounge allows this to continue? I block this poster all the time, but he is always there. It must be true that it comes from many different devices. Because it continues on many threads. Isolate its posts and you will see the pattern. This is not impossible to stop. Please stop R427 and all his other personalities from posting so much racist and general hate on this site. He is not a healthy individual. That is fine, but to attack and harrass others when HE is the problem on this site, is the problem of this company. Mediapolis. This is no longer funny. Don't tell me to block him. I have. But we can't get rid of it!!! Ban R427 now! This company knows who this person is.

Miss Turner she remained pretty pulled together for a drunk lady. Do we have some accounting for this?

r428 I don't have multiple accounts. You are a very disturbed individual and not exactly a spring chicken yourself. Don't worry, your posts have all been sent along. Calling people "ancient white fags" and denigrating gay men on a gay forum will not be tolerated. Now run along. You've been reported and it's out of my hands now.

What age is a chicken in springtime? I'm 38. Fag is not a banned term, when it applies. This is not strictly a gay forum. And you are indeed posting from multiple accounts. This is well known to them. Stop spreading racial hate. Please stop following and harassing individual posters from thread to thread. You WILL be gone. One device at a time. Just like before. They know where you work and how you achieve this. It is not high tech but your job does provide you a lot of access for minimum wage. Y'all slip up all the time though boo. We can see 140 + RPDR posts along with your Barbra Streisand fawning and the Lana Turner fixation, mixed with your lecherous thoughts on Joe Jonas. Your posts don't separate as much as you plan and let's face it, sometimes you're just too worked up to switch channels. That's fine. Be omnipotent. You're already a disease. Just stop harassing individuals and spreading hate speech. That's illegal fool. Even on this site.

[quote]R389 Lana had two stillborns.

More than that, if you’re counting her godawful performances.

Everything you've written is false. I've never even watched the Rupaul show, never mind posted. Same with Joe Jonas. No multiple accounts either. And I'm actually younger than you. Sorry fucker, your hate is going down. You'll be out of here soon enough. Nitey nite.

But r430 earlier in this thread you posted:

[quote]No need to call people f@gs R325. What's your damage?

And now you posted:

[quote] Fag is not a banned term, when it applies.

So which is it? Or are you too drunk to realize what you're doing? BTW your last post was also sent off.

The desperate man's sadness gets worse! WE can see your other posts old dude, R432.

r434 you're the ancient white fags poster. Multiple accounts.

To get back to the vintage condom issue, one book I read said Tyrone Power broke off dating Betty Grable because her pussy stank (really!)

She went to her gynecologist and he dug a condom out of her that’d been trapped up there for months.

[bold]: o

Turner was lucky to play "bad girl" parts. There wasn't the competition that others had for that niche. With MGM's huge roster, there was always lots of competition for best friends, boy/girl next door, helpmate wives, etc. And once they figured out that she made for a good "sweater girl", she had it made.

She was the first choice for Madame Bovary (1949), but the Breen office put the kibosh on that. They said that if such a scandalous story had to be filmed, then the title role should be played by someone who didn't have a sex symbol reputation. Hence Lana was out and MGM borrowed Jennifer Jones from Selznick. In the end the right choice was made as Jones gives one of her best performances in Madame Bovary.

[quote] This is not strictly a gay forum.

It is.

[quote]They know where you work and how you achieve this.

It's "achieved" by using multiple throwaway email accounts and multiple browsers. We have a lot of trolls who do this. All this talk of "they know who you are" is ridiculous; Mediapolis doesn't care.

[quote][R396] posted more than 120 times on the Drag Race thread #5 alone! More than 40 posts here! So we SHOULD block and move on. Isolate that poster and read it's vile, racist, and antiquated hate. All over this site.

That's not true, I checked r396's posts with the ignore trick, I didn't find a single one on any Drag Race thread.

There are a LOT of trolls who are faking "information" they got from using the ignore trick; the lady who faked "finding" 50 posts from me, "a proven Meghan Markle paid PR employee," just got redtagged for her shenanigans, so I would advise others to not try the same stunt, unless they also want a redtag.

Sure, there are some people who simply don't know how to use the ignore trick. Sometimes there are glitches, too. But given that we have a small group of people on this thread being homophobes, making threats, and posting personal info about the website owners, I'm inclined to believe they're trying to get this thread deleted out of malice.

Thank you r357, that's exactly what I was wondering.

Arlene Dahl refutes Cheryl Crane's allegation that Lex Barker ever raped her @ 18:00.

Arlene Dahl is a monster for what she said about Cheryl Crane.

She's also a monster for inflicting Lorenzo Lamas on the world.

Arlene Dahl wasn't there. Her opinion has no value.

On the contrary, R340, Barbara Stanwyck was very friendly with Loretta Young. There are numerous pictures of them together (attached). I will say this - Loretta certainly didn't try that swear jar crap with Stanwyck or that would be the end of that.

As for Clark Gable "raping" Loretta Young, it's totally implausible that he acted on an urge she wasn't expecting. They had sex without her consent, but she wasn't yelling no. Then AND now, it's not wise for a female to put herself into a position where a man can expect sex when she doesn't want it. Don't leave with a guy unless you're ready for him to try something, don't go to his room alone to "talk." Since he was so popular, Gable probably felt entitled, and Young was too stupid/naive to understand that flirting with Gable then being alone with him was not a good idea.

This thread is nice to me. I dig it. It's juicy and educational. What's just positively the film of Lana's to watch? I want something borderline campy and in black and white please, one of y'all help me decide.

I didn't know that Judy had a schoolgirl crush on Artie Shaw at all. She was soo very gifted. She could do with her voice what Artie Shaw could never do with the clarinet if you really stop and think about it. His bandleading skills were alright, not my overall cup of tea though. Some musicians who focus on wind instruments do so because they can't quite sing, so their wind instrument does the singing they wish they could do for them.

Lana Turner aged well. R411 I liked that. She looks like a well kept Southern matron who can't decide whether to lay with the between the pool boy or gardener while her 4th husband is away playing golf at an anti-Semitic country club.

Arlene Dahl is still alive, which reminds me that Henry Kissinger is also still alive.

That was meant for R339, not R340

She did age well, R445, I said earlier that she looked frumpy early but I agree with r136 that a few years later she came back looking fresher than she had just before leaving Hollywood for a couple of years.

Fresh is not a word I think about with Lana Turner.

How come no one cares about the rotting condom stuck in Betty Grable’s twat?

Turner essentially murdered dear Carole Lombard, who knew the whore was banging her husband while she herself was away on a war bond drive.

Wanting to nip Turner’s incessant leg spreading in the bud, Lombard chose to fly back to L.A. rather than take the train. As we all know, and as Turner delighted in, the plane crashed.

Carole Lombard frequently made surprise visits to the set of the Gable-Turner western "Honky Tonk," to make sure the young blonde hussy kept her hands off her man. But Carole's presence unnerved Lana, forcing Gable to kick his wife off the set in order for Lana to finish her scenes.

When Gable and Turner were paired again for "Somewhere I'll Find You," Lombard hit the roof, and supposedly she and Gable argued about Lana before leaving for her war bond drive. After Lombard perished in the plane crash, Gable asked MGM to change the title of the picture because he couldn't bare it. It was retitled "Red Light," but changed back to its original title just before release.

"Lex Barker died on May 11, 1973, of a heart attack while walking down a street in New York City."

Pity.

Lana was a natural redhead, there's one color picture of her when she was young. Not a brunette. Ava Gardner was good in The Snows Of Kilimanjaro. Also in On The Beach. She was very touching. I don't know why people expect her to be a great actress. She was a good actress and a beauty. Lana was an acquired taste, for me. She was good in The Postman Always Rings Twice - she was perfect for the part. Pretty good in Cass Timberlane. Actually very good in Madame X, as well.

A guilty pleasure of mine is Lana in SLIGHTLY DANGEROUS. Check it out. She's charming and of course, beautiful.

I would love to have been a fly on the wall in a room with Judy and Lana back during their early MGM days. It is a wonder that Judy didn't absolutely despise her, but it seems they remained close more or less until the end. Lana's daughter recalled that they lived next-door to Judy in the '50s and apparently Judy would come over to their house all the time.

Prior to reading Lana's wiki page, I didn't realize how troubled her early childhood was. After the family left the Idaho panhandle, her dad was murdered in San Francisco (and it was never solved), and Lana was shuffled from house to house while her mother worked. She was basically raised in poverty, and, by her account, often lived on crackers and milk.

"Ziegfeld Girl," in which Turner co-starred with Judy Garland, Hedy Lamarr, and Jimmy Stewart, is another great and fun early entry in her filmography. I think it was her breakout role. She was luminous in it. The girl knew how to dramatically descend a staircase!

LOVE that sequence in ZIEGFELD GIRL! Just luminous.

Why didn't MGM ever give Tony Martin the star build up after that film? He was so handsome and had a gorgeous voice. Incredible to think they put all that effort and support into Nelson Eddy.

[quote]As for Clark Gable "raping" Loretta Young, it's totally implausible that he acted on an urge she wasn't expecting. They had sex without her consent, but she wasn't yelling no.

R444, I think you must mean "it's totally PLAUSIBLE."

St. Loretta told her illegitimate child with Gable that she was “my mortal sin”.

That’s not a rape victim talking.

Lex Barker was STUNNING in his prime! perfect chiseled facial features.... off topic, but so was blonde Buster Crabbe...

Lex Barker looked a bit haggard toward the end...certainly older than 54. Crabbe was pretty stunning. Both, interestingly, came from well-off backgrounds. Buster Crabbe probably had the most unlikely name of any star (or semi-star) from his era.

Artie Shaw was quite the heartbreaker. At their first meeting Lana Turner went after him "like a bee making for the honey", according to Phil Silvers. Shaw was involved with Betty Grable at the time. He and Silver and Turner went out to dinner and as Silvers describes it:

"On the way home Artie ran through the routine I'd heard so often. "I want a girl that will be satisfied with me alone on a desert island..." The girl would agree: "Yes, just two people who need each other." And then they would roll into bed for a pleasant jam session. Next day all the philosophic rationalization would be forgotten. Artie was always brutally honest. He really did mean what he said. Every time.

Lana crossed him up. "That's exactly what I want. A man who has the brains to be satisfied with me only."

He was vehement. "Look, I'm sick of this Hollywood crap. I want to break out." Lana said "Me too, Anywhere you say."

Artie couldn't back out. He turned around, drove to Paul Mantz's plane rental service and chartered a plane to Las Vegas. To get married. I felt this was reaching too far for a joke, but Artie was flying against the petty restraints of slave society. He gave me the keys to drive his car home."

Of course when Grable, who thought she and Shaw were in love, found out about the quickie marriage she exploded in anger and called Shaw a son of a bitch. Judy Garland was more deeply affected. She was heartbroken that Shaw, who she was in love with, and Turner, who she considered a friend, would run off together. Shaw later tried to explain to Judy and he'd never felt about her "that way." and didn't think she felt "that way" about him. His feelings towards her were of a friendship nature, whereas "Lana is someone I'll have sex with." Yes, he reportedly said THAT to Judy. At any rate, his marriage to Lana Turner barely existed; it lasted a little over four months. And then he moved on. And on and on and on. He was married a total of eight times.

Poor Judy, who was moderately pretty at her best, forced to compete with the Lanas and Hedys and Avas of the world. No wonder she took pills.

Lena Horne was also one of Artie Shaw's conquests, or he was one of hers in her endless search for a white man to marry to further her career. She supposedly ASKED SHAW to marry her. He refused. Lena tried out several others until she found the right one - a gay white man. She liked to say that he begged her to marry him until she said yes, it was more likely the other way around.

I'd like to hear more about the condom that stayed longer than necessary up Betty Grable.

No one was more gorgeous than Lana in black velvet, at the end of ZIEGFELD GIRL, walking down the stairs one more time before collapsing and expiring beautifully.

"Come on, kid. Stairs are your business!"

How drunk do you have to be to not realize the condom wasn't discarded.

[quote] Why didn't MGM ever give Tony Martin the star build up after that film? He was so handsome and had a gorgeous voice.

Tony had secret issues.

[quote]Tony had secret issues.

Like, R471? I've only heard bits & pieces about Tony. He dated Lana a bit in 1940/41. He also was briefly married to Alice Faye in the Late 30s. Their marriage ended after only a year or so. Not sure what happened there?

Rosemary Clooney wrote in her memoirs that most singers get embarrassed when fans shower them with Over The Top praise. But (according to Rosie) Tony Martin didn't! He supposedly loved every second of it! LOL

I just find it curious that MGM didn't cast Tony Martin opposite Judy again nor opposite any of their other 30s/40s musical leading ladies like June Allyson, Eleanor Powell, Ann Sothern , etc.

Judy's two go-to leading men were Mickey Rooney and Gene Kelly. MGM tried to set up a similar deal with Fred Astaire after Easter Parade was a hit, but Judy was too unstable by then and pulled out of two more partnerships with Astaire, The Barkleys of Broadway and Royal Wedding.

[quote] I don't see a single iconic role for her in all of her movies

The word 'icon' was meant for Greek goddesses; it's completely irrelevant for these schmoozing American adulterers.

[quote] Turner was lucky to play "bad girl" parts. There wasn't the competition that others had for that niche.

Ingrid wanted the "bad girl" part and Lana was too weak (or dumb) to forbid it.

[quote]R476 Ingrid wanted the "bad girl" part and Lana was too weak (or dumb) to forbid it.

Turner would have been wretched in that demanding role - an embarrassment.

^ Indeed!

Turner would have been pathetic in that— or any— demanding role.

Spencer Tracy was one of the greatest actors of all time but I thought he was wretched in "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde." Oh, he did Dr. Jekyll all right. But he was ludicrous as Mr. Hyde. He didn't seem able to pull off a character as irredeemable as Hyde. I thought Ingrid Bergman did very well as Ivy, the dance hall girl, though.

I don't think the "bad girl" Ivy was even in the novel by Robert Louis Stevenson. It seems like she was a character made up for the movie versions in order to add some sex to the story. Although Hyde is vile and grotesque she allows herself to be "kept" by him, even though he utterly repulses her. It seems kind of unbelievable that even the greediest "bad girl" would want to be his love slave.

As gross as Spencer Tracy is as Hyde he doesn't hold a candle to Fredric March, who played Jekyll/Hyde in the 1931 film version. In that one March's Hyde looks like some kind of ghastly ape creature, not even human. Miriam Hopkins plays poor Ivy in that version. That too has a scene where Hyde psychologically tortures her and taunts her into singing. After singing hysterically she finally collapses into a faint, whereupon Hyde lifts her from the bed and KISSES her. It's truly one of the most horrible things you'll ever seen in a horror movie, that monstrous creature pressing his lips on hers.

[quote] Spencer Tracy was one of the greatest actors of all time…

No, he wasn't.

He stood in front of a camera and the director and the editor did all the work.

And he avoided live theatre.

Where did the conventional wisdom come from that Tracy was the greatest? He was good in a lot of films, but there were some that bored me or annoyed me.

[quote] Where did the conventional wisdom come from that Tracy was the greatest? He was good in a lot of films, but there were some that bored me or annoyed me.

I hear you R481. I've seen him in countless films and he's always bored me as well. I'm thinking that maybe he was considered a talent in his day because he was "A Natural" during a period in The Movie Industry that was dominated by a lot of artifice & overacting, stagey old hams.

To this day Spencer Tracy is considered one of the all time great actors. And he was. Here's some things that were said about him:

Tracy had a solid reputation among his peers and received considerable praise from the film industry.[256] After his death, MGM head Dore Schary said that there "can be no question that [Tracy] was the best and most protean actor of our screen". He was referred to as the greatest actor of his generation by Clark Gable, James Cagney, Humphrey Bogart, John Ford, Garson Kanin, and Katharine Hepburn.[2 Actor Richard Widmark, who idolized Tracy, called him "the greatest movie actor there ever was" and said that he had "learned more about acting from watching Tracy than in any other way".

Tracy was particularly respected for his naturalism onscreen. Hume Cronyn, who worked with Tracy on The Seventh Cross, admired his screen presence: "His method appeared to be as simple as it is difficult to achieve. He appeared to do nothing. He listened, he felt, he said the words without forcing anything." Joan Crawford likewise expressed her admiration for Tracy's seemingly effortless performances, stating that it was "inspiring" to co-star with him and that "his is such simplicity of performance, such naturalness and humor ... he walks through a scene [and] makes it seem so easy". His four-time co-star Joan Bennett said that she "never had the feeling he was 'acting' in a scene, but the truth of the situation was actually happening, spontaneously, at the moment he spoke his lines". Cagney noted that Tracy was rarely the target of impressionists because "you can't mimic reserve and control very well ... there's nothing to imitate except his genius and that can't be mimicked".

Never saw an impressionist do Stanwyck either.

Since it's Oscar Night here's Lana in 1958 presenting Best Supporting Actor.

Tracy is seen as a great actor in this day and age because he’s one of the only performers from his era (along with Bergman, Clift, Monroe, maybe Vivien Leigh) (I’d have to think who else) who could act in a naturalistic style that still seems humanly emotional today.

Lana, Robert Taylor, Hayworth, and most of the rest of the studio players would be lucky to be cast on stilted soap operas today.

You can really see that Janet Leigh has QUITE big tits in the R485 clip.

Gretchen's Oscar duds...

This thread is far more interesting than the Oscars.

[quote]Spencer Tracy was one of the greatest actors of all time but I thought he was wretched in "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde."

Spencer Tracy was SUPPOSED to be one of the greatest actors of all time, but I thought he was wretched in "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner," and a dozen others.

I liked Tracy in Guess Who's...it was Hepburn who was weepy and appalling in that film altho her wardrobe was gorgeous.

R484, Kaye Ballard did in her nightclub act.

Tracy was aldo very good in Test Pilot as the best friend wing man and apologist to Gable's hedonistic dare devil flyer.

I don't get someone saying saying Tracy was "wretched and appalling in Guess Who's Coming To Dinner. I just have to laugh. His closing monologue alone was one of the best things I've ever seen an actor do. He wasn't great in a few things, I guess, but he was usually brilliant. In Adam's Rib and Father Of The Bride, for a couple. I LOVE watching him. He wasn't merely 'natural', he had great emotional power, and fantastic comedy timing and reactions. Also, he was on stage for years pre-Hollywood, and did go back to Broadway in the 40 s, in an unsuccessful play that he got good personal reviews for.

[quote]^ Indeed!

Turner would have been pathetic in that— or any— demanding role.

I would call her role as Georgia in The Bad And The Beautiful a demanding role, and it was one of her best performances.

The above quotation should have been

[quote]^ Indeed. Turner would have been pathetic in that— or any— demanding role.

By the way Judy Garland was only 16 I think when she had a thing for Artie Shaw. Probably why he didn't take her crush seriously. I think Lana was 18.

Pfft. By 16 Marilyn was married already. Tsk. Judy, Judy, Judy!!

Poor Marilyn was married off at 16 to keep her from being sent back to the orphanage (her foster family couldn't take care of her anymore). Her first marriage to James Dougherty didn't last long. There are conflicting reports about it. She said during her marriage to him she had no interest in sex at all. He said the opposite, that she couldn't keep her hands off him and that when he came home from work she was pulling him into the bedroom. I'm thinking maybe Dougherty was telling the truth. At his job he worked with a pre-stardom Robert Mitchum. Mitchum noticed Dougherty seems like a very happy guy, in spite of the fact that his wife made him the same thing for lunch every day, a cold egg sandwich. Mitchum commented on his "old lady" making him the same sandwich every day and Dougherty replied "You should see my old lady!" And he shows him a nude picture of his "old lady", who would become Marilyn Monroe. The photo was of her at the gate, posed as if she were waiting for him to come home.

[quote]r494 I would call her role as Georgia in The Bad And The Beautiful a demanding role, and[bold] it was one of her best performances[/bold]

Well, the bar's pretty low for that.

Seriously,,, who is claiming Lana Turner was a GOOD ACTRESS ? ? ? She's practically the poster child for people who hate movies. There is absolutely nothing in her that approaches art.

Lana Turner was not an actress

She stood in front of a camera and wore flattering dresses. The director and the editor did all the work.

She did lose her puppy fat in the early 40s to the 50s.

But she was not an actress.

How did Artie Shaw manage to wed such quality women, Ava, Lana, Evelyn Keyes, Kathleen Winsor, etc.?

I've never seen it mentioned if he was well hung.

He had rhythm, baby!

[quote] Seriously,,, who is claiming Lana Turner was a GOOD ACTRESS ? ? ? She's practically the poster child for people who hate movies. There is absolutely nothing in her that approaches art.

R498, both then & now people watch movies for different reasons. Not everyone is looking for "art". Sometimes people just want to see attractive people/clothes/settings on screen and be entertained with an easy to follow storyline for an hour or so. Movie stars like Lana Turner, Loretta Young & Marilyn Monroe did just that.

I personally find the lighthearted movies of Lana Turner & Loretta Young much more entertaining than most serious/artistic films & Oscar-bait. In fact, I had DirecTV for 20 years and was a regular, almost daily TCM viewer. I came to dread the month of March because TCM would donate the entire month's programing to movies with an Oscar connection. Most of those films bored the living hell out of me! After a while, I just stopped watching the channel for the entire month until April rolled around. LOL.

True r502. Actresses like Lana Turner were popular because they made entertaining films.

A well hung stud that has yet to be mentioned is Porfirio Rubirosa. His huge cock inspired waiters at Maxim's to call their gigantic pepper mills "Rubirosas". Rubirosa was linked romantically to Dolores del Río, Eartha Kitt, Marilyn Monroe, Ava Gardner, Maria Montez, Rita Hayworth, Dorothy Dandridge, Lupe Vélez, Peggy Hopkins Joyce, Joan Crawford, Veronica Lake, Kim Novak, Judy Garland, Eva Peron, and Zsa Zsa Gabor.

KELT looked a bit KKKancelled toward the end.

R504, Witnesses claimed that Rubirosa was able to balance a chair on his erect penis.

You failed to mention three of his wives, Barbara Hutton, Doris Duke and Danielle Darrieux.

[quote]r502 both then & now people watch movies for different reasons. Not everyone is looking for "art". Sometimes people just want to see attractive people/clothes/settings on screen and be entertained with an easy to follow storyline for an hour or so.

Of course that has always been true. I am responding to those claiming Turner was actually a good actress.

Look, I adore the way Brooke Shields looks, but I'd never claim she was actually a gifted actress. She's passably professional. Occassionally.

Doris Duke looked like she would've had an enormously cavernous pussy, she must've needed Rubirosa's enormous horse cock so she could feel something.

[quote]How did Artie Shaw manage to wed such quality women, Ava, Lana, Evelyn Keyes, Kathleen Winsor, etc.? I've never seen it mentioned if he was well hung.

R500, both Lana, Ava and (especially) Evelyn Keyes gave vivid portraits of what life was like living with Artie Shaw as his spouse. Just as an observer, I can tell you that in his youth Artie was very handsome, a sharp dresser and (back then) one of the most successful musicians in the country. And something about his face leads me to believe that his cock resembled a summer sausage on display in a Jewish delicatessen case. Major BDE (Big Dick Energy) from him! I would imagine that these were the things that first attracted Artie's high-profile conquests.

All three women in their memoirs (more or less) say that Artie was charming at the very beginning of the relationships and a fantastic lover. The issues all stemmed from the fact that Artie was an extremely intelligent intellectual, who looked down on anyone he saw as less intelligent than himself. Artie was a sapiosexual, who unfortunately married to please his cock instead of his mind. So he'd marry ACTRESSES (of all people) like Lana & Ava, then belittled the poor women and loaded them up with books in an attempt to smarten them up. LOL

Lana & Ava both quickly got sick of being treated like imbeciles and bailed. Evelyn Keyes on the other hand was at the point in her life when she met Artie where she craved knowledge and welcomed his "teachings". Both Artie & Evelyn married several times, eventually divorced each other but ultimately were the love of each other's lives. So much so that decades after their divorce they made a pact to leave their estates to each other when they died. Artie died first in 2004. Evelyn in 2008.

There seems to be someone who thinks actors just stand in front of cameras and talk, and other people do some magic that makes them look like they're acting. Everyone from 9-time Academy Award nominated (2 times winner) Spencer Tracy, to Lana Turner.

Anyhow, do some of you realize back in those days threre were many other films made besides the big ones, films never really shown any more? Tons and tons of low-budget westerns, B pictures, etc. All of them had actors in them. Most of them weren't on the level of Lana Turner. This is still true today with all the TV shows, etc. -- there are many actors who will never get big and aren't that great. Lana was not Bette Davis (who was her favorite actress), but hell I saw her in summer stock or dinner theatre or something when I was a kid and the audience enjoyed her performanace. She was a "good" actress.

[quote] dinner theatre or something

OK

I'm not a Tracy fan but he was very good in light comedy. Libeled Lady, Pat and Mike, Adam's Rib, and the two Father of the Bride movies.

Lana was an undeniable star who alone could bring in large audiences which in Hollywood is a great talent.

It's ironic that Spencer Tracy, a decent actor with a naturalistic style, is linked forever with Katherine Hepburn--who is pretty much the opposite.

There's not a lot of "there" there with Hepburn beyond her flouncy mannerisms and vocal affectations. Sure, she's fun as madcap heiresses or old eccentrics--the first dozen times you see her play them. But after that, you the shallowness of her work. Kate is always "Kate Hepburn" onscreen. It's not really "acting" so much as it's "behaving."

Like Tracy, though, she's become a sentimental institution whose legend outstrips her actual talents.

Lana survived a near career ending scandal that others might not have, which was a testament to her star power and popularity among fans.

[quote]He said the opposite, that (Marilyn) couldn't keep her hands off him and that when he came home from work she was pulling him into the bedroom. I'm thinking maybe Dougherty was telling the truth.

Ha ha. I think it was probably something in the middle. Dougherty sound like a typical bragging straight guy.

R513, I don't think Kate Hepburn fans would've been interested in seeing their star disappear into her roles. They wanted the Kate Hepburn persona to shine through.

Paul Muni was an actor who disappeared into every role, and though he was a fine actor, there is no definable Paul Muni persona or legacy. And perhaps for this reason, he isn't really remembered today.

Seriously, another actor who’s very natural is Mae Marsh in the modern sequence in INTOLERANCE. I remember watching that in college and suddenly thinking, “Wow, her character’s become a real person.”

Oh for chrissakes. Once and for all, Lana wasn't an actress, she was a...Star.

r513, the great contrast in Tracy and Hepburn's personas and acting styles is precisely what their onscreen chemistry was all about. It's what audiences fell in love with and wanted to see.

Didn't Kate even remark: "Spence is the meat and potatoes and I'm the ......" Well, anyway, I've forgotten what she compared herself to, but one can only imagine.

Muni is both the greatest and worst of actors. At his best he blows all other English speaking actors off the screen and has you riveted. At his worst he has you yelling for God's sake take the ham out of the oven!

I've never seen another actor be so good and so bad.

[quote]r520 Didn't Kate even remark: "Spence is the meat and potatoes and I'm the ......" Well, anyway, I've forgotten what she compared herself to, but one can only imagine.

I believe Kate cheered, “And I’m the briny pot of piccalilli relish!” while flashing her fire crotch at reporters.

L.B. Mayer was aghast. It’s in the Garson Kanin book (?)

R519 has it right. Lana Turner was a star. She learned to perform for the camera to be the best Lana Turner she could be. She knew where her lights were, how to work a costume and deliver her lines to bring out Lana Turner and please her audience. Her audience did not go to see her disappear into a role. Instead they went to see her turn the role into some facet of Lana Turner. And Lana developed her persona over the years successfully transitioning from sexy sweater girl to the Queen of over the top melodramas.

What r523 said. Lana was a Movie Star. And she played that role to the hilt until the end.

If you want to see the girl next door....

Go next door.

Artie Shaw's appeal? Well, he was a musician, a very accomplished one. For a lot of women, that in itself is a major turn on. Same with singers. I thought Frank Sinatra was plug ugly but women swooned over him due to his singing voice.

Yes, R526. Not only that, but Orchestra (Big Band) Leaders in the 1920's to 1940s (especially successful ones) were the equivalent to Today's Rock/Pop/Rap stars.

Well, Betty did manage to get one.

[quote]R523 Her audience did not go to see her disappear into a role. Instead they went to see her turn the role into some facet of Lana Turner.

Most of the stars did that... and many stars still do that do this day. Stars become popular because we like a specific thing they project, and that becomes their image and calling card. It’s unusual to see actors completely transform themselves from role to role.

What I detest about Lana Turner was she projected such a blah, almost inept and doughy personality. She might have slid by in light comedies or romances, or playing one note noir sexpots, but I watched half of DIANE (1956) last night and she’s just so bland and horribly artificial when she tries to play it straight.

Uggh. She bugs me!

Lana, Judy and Hedy.

To be fair R529, historical costume dramas weren't suitable vehicles for Lana. She was best in light comedy or contemporary melodrama. She herself hated doing costume dramas like Diane and The Prodigal. MGM under Dore Schary really didn't know what to do with her for the most part.

"What I detest about Lana Turner was she projected such a blah, almost inept and doughy personality."

She also projected glamour which can never be under-estimated, r529.

Tracy had one foot in the grave during the making of "Guess Whose Coming to Dinner" and the film suffers from being one of Stanley Kramer's starchy social issue vehicles. Still Tracy is good in a number of scenes like the one where they go for ice cream. The contrasts in style between Tracy & Hepburn was part of what made their better films so fun to watch.

Tracy was a very good, naturalistic actor and a real contrast to the emerging method types and the more traditionally stagey types they brought in with talkies, as well as the people who basically had one persona. Stanwyck is a really good example of a female counterpart to him. Both were always under-rated.

Turner, basically traded on her sweaters and her bustline. Her later career owed quite a bit to Ross Hunter, who did well with soap opera--or at least well enough that it usually made money.

Again, r533, Lana was able to deliver the glamour in spades...

Lana Turner looked like a washed up whore. Someone from a John Waters film. More shapewear than shape. Terrible actress. A lot like Crawford - always suffering and weeping but so clearly a fucking ball breaking WITCH.

[quote]There's not a lot of "there" there with Hepburn beyond her flouncy mannerisms and vocal affectations. Sure, she's fun as madcap heiresses or old eccentrics--the first dozen times you see her play them. But after that, you the shallowness of her work. Kate is always "Kate Hepburn" onscreen. It's not really "acting" so much as it's "behaving."

Have you seen Summertime, or Long Day's Journey Into Night? Do you think David Lean or Sidney Lumet cast her because she was shallow, or could only play a madcap heiress, or old eccentic? Peter O'Toole her costar in The Lion In Winter said she was brilliant. gfy

[quote]always suffering and weeping

Again, have you SEEN any of her movies? Or are you just basing this on seeing like, two movies where she was weeping? Green Dolphin Street, The Postman Always Rings Twice, Homecoming...

It would have been hysterical to see K Hepburn and L Turner make a movie together.

And here she was thinking [italic]Ginger Rogers[/italic] was bad...!

Hepburn would have battered her on Day Two.

GREEN DOLPHIN TWAT

Exactly, r536...

This seems to be a thread devoted to bashing Lana Turner, Spencer Tracy, and Katharine Hepburn. lol

[quote]It would have been hysterical to see K Hepburn and L Turner make a movie together.

Katharine Hepburn & Lana Turner in "Suddenly, Last Summer"

That would've been magical.

Lana had longevity because Lana stayed in her own lane....

Alice Adams is a beautiful film. I don't know how she does it but Hepburn makes your heart break for a social climber.

"Alice Adams" has one of my favorite quotes, from the two snobbish women who see Katherine, "Chiffon, maybe we're wrong!" I may have the cloth type wrong, but it's a great moment.

MGM under Dore Schary didn't seem to know what to do with a lot of people ...

I don't think the word SKANK was in use when Laaaaahnaaaah was alive? She was a skank.

^. Don't blame Dore Schary for MGM cracking up, blame the 1952 Loews Judgment Antitrust Court Case.

I can't find it on Wiki but it decimated ALL the studios.

R548 It didn't helpt that Schary wanted to make boring "lesson" movies like The Next Voice You Hear. And he did things like cut down The Red Badge Of Courage to 69 minutes, and Across The Wide Missouri to 78 minutes. But some of those message pictures of his were really dreadful. Bad Day At Black Rock was great, but an exception. Good thing they had the great musicals, and Stewart Granger swashbucklers.

[quote]I can't find it on Wiki but it decimated ALL the studios.

I think Universal did ok, because it didn't have a parent company that owned theaters, that it had to divest itself from.

[quote]Don't blame Dore Schary for MGM cracking up, blame the 1952 Loews Judgment Antitrust Court Case.

And the rise of Television as well, R548. It was a bad time for all the studios.

But Dore Schary's tastes were different than Louis B. Mayer's. He favored "Serious Actors", Adventure Epics & Realism. He really had no use for Glamour and the likes of Lana Turner. He threw her in to one overblown piece of shit after another during the last 5 years of her contract. She IMMEDIATELY rebounded when her contract was up.

No one gives a rusty fuck KELT. Strange, but that was Lana Turner's nickname! Rusty Fuck.

Don't y'all have a Klan rally to attend?

LOVE the duds!

Columbia had no theaters and they never had a lot of contract players; they often hired people on short-term, rather than long-term contracts. Despite Harry Cohn's micromanagement, it became a good place for independent producers. They became aa truly major studio in the 50s and made money, with lots of strong films like Caine Mutiny and From Here to Eternity. They also went into television early on, relying often on an independent producer model.

Universal was a basket case through the 50s---unlike Columbia, they had a crappy financial position and continued to rely heavily on series and B-pictures. They sold the studio physical plant to MCA which mostly used it for television. It wasn't until Lew Wasserman merged MCA with Universal that it began to be a major studio.

Lana was on maternity leave from MGM for most of 1944 to birth her daughter Cheryl. Soon after she gave birth, an impatient Louis B. Mayer ordered her back to the studio to film "Marriage Is A Private Affair". Lana, who was still anemic and quite weak looked tired & haggard upon her arrival. MGM's glam squad did what they could but the results were less than spectacular. When Louis B. Mayer saw the hair, makeup & wardrobe tests he was OUTRAGED!

Mr. Mayer then sent out an angry memo to his Hair, Makeup & Wardrobe Departments in which he stated, "What the hell good are Hair, Makeup & Wardrobe if you can't even make LANA TURNER look good?" He went on to suggest that if they didn't get their shit together, heads would roll.

All departments then went back to the drawing board. The end result was the LOVELIEST Lana Turner has ever looked on the screen! Everything about her "Marraige Is A Private Affair" appearance is perfection! And it's a pretty good movie too, with support from hunks Joan Hodiak & James Craig and Natalie Schaffer as Lana's mother. A movie that's definitely worth watching, if not for anything else than to see Lana Turner at her absolute most beautiful!

Lana could have ably played the soiled, lost condom in [italic]Inside Betty Grable[/italic] (?)

(a musical, of course.)

She was never more than pretty with short shapeless legs and a healthy young woman's bosom. She looked like a SKANK for most of her life, even as an older lady in those beaded gowns and lead hairstyles. Lana was so fake ladylike and so obviously a lifelong slut. That's fine too. But she was also a murderer and brain dead drunk who damaged people. What the fuck did they see in her? So artificial in appearance and performance. I get when she was young and MGM - She was attractive, sexy and had a pretty speaking voice and body. But how one of the world's worst actresses and not very beautiful woman kept working in major films later in life is a fucking mystery. The public didn't like her as herself. She did retain something like glamor. But it was shellacked and hacked beyond a real woman. Old movie stars lie is not shocking. But to be such a fake ass drunken Pollyanna late in life - when you were the biggest slut of all time is kind of boring. Lana still slithered across the floor well into her late sixties, begging to be fucked. By gay men.

They don't make movie stars like Lana Turner anymore. She was GLAMOUR to the end. Immensely watchable on screen.

[quote]They don't make movie stars like Lana Turner anymore.

True. Thank christ. She was a ridiculous non talent who wasn't even beautiful. Average looking woman with blonde hair. Couldn't act.

Really, R558?

Isn't this new little trampy-looking woman named Zendaya pretending to be another Lana Turner?

Zendaya IS Lana Turner AS Betty Grable in "What's the Hell's Up My Snatch?"

Seeing Frances McDormand (the anti-Lana) take home yet one more Oscar with her unkempt hair and hideous dress makes me long for the days of Lana, Ava, Hedy, Liz, Marilyn, and all of those fabulous looking gals.

Seriously, people... THIS is a movie star?

Right r562?

Green Dolphin Street is an entertaining movie, it's about the San Francisco Earthquake in 1906. Lana gets knocked around the house when the earthquake hits and hides under a table.

Damn it, R562! The bitch couldn't even be bothered to comb her fucking hair for THE OSCARS!!!!!!!!!!! Wow!

R564 In Green Dolphin Street there's an earthquake, but it's in New Zealand in the 1800s.

[quote]R557 ...she was also a murderer and brain dead drunk who damaged people.

Thank you for that.

There's no glamour to movie stars anymore. The stars of Hollywood's Golden Age were like Gods and Goddesses. Nowadays they tend to look like anybody you would seen on this street. A lot of them look less attractive than that. I've seen bag ladies who look better than Frances McDormand. No wonder nobody gives a shit about the Oscars anymore. Why should they? The Academy Awards are so meaningless and dreary now. Nobody gives a fuck who wins them.

R562 I don't even like Frances McDormand's acting, but that look is disgraceful. Damn. Brush your hair, at least. And you make millions per movie, can't you go afford to go to the dentist and get your teeth cleaned before the Academy Awards? At least buy a toothbrush.

[quote] MGM under Dore Schary really didn't know what to do with her

I sympathise with Schary having to cope with the 1952 Loews Consent court case. All the studios fell apart.

Why would someone bring up Zendaya on this thread unless they are trolling other posters? We see your multiple posts from several devices R560. A nasty insecure creature you are. Have your opinions by all means. But Zendaya and Lana Turner? You've gone all KKK'd out.

Your racism and lies are all over this site. As is your trolling. For a few more days.

Being a drunk whore is not glamorous. Lana Turner was well dressed screen. She is not remembered for anything more.

Good lord, Frances McDormand's hair! It looks like she cut it herself and hasn't shampooed it for two weeks. She looks like she hasn't showered in all that time either. What the fuck is her problem? She seems kind of mentally ill to me, but some people love her antics, like howling like a wolf in her acceptance speech. What a nutjob.

One year - just a few years ago - the In Memorium segment left out Dorothy Malone, who had died that year, and who was an Academy Award WINNER. The Oscar shows are shit now.

[quote]r558 They don't make movie stars like Lana Turner anymore. She was GLAMOUR to the end. Immensely watchable on screen.

After reading this thread I asked my mom if she was ever a Lana Turner fan, back in the day. She said, “Oh no. She was too... common, as your grandparents would say.”

My mom couldn't stand Lana Turner. But I like her.

Rouged and all dyed up like some fairground stripper, that Lana was!

r574 your mom is a tasteless whore.

My mother is from BOSTON!

They don’t go for your freewheeling, peroxide ways!

Bette Davis was from Boston and she loved Lana.

Where is THAT written??

Lana was a tramp. And a very common one. I can't think of any female star that benefited more from all the stars, producers and studs she let bounce up and down on her. The public never liked her much. She was lucky to give an illusion of wanting more. A victim or goodness and avarice. She played some bad girls. But good or virtuous, all of her performances emerged from a bottle of peroxide and scotch. She's unsavory. As r574's mother knew. People have eyes and sense. Lana was a tramp. Cuz she liked it.

So cut out the pious glamor talk. She wasn't glamorous. That was a girdle.

Dore Schary was a writer, later he wrote a successful Broadway play (Sunrise At Campobello), but he was not a good studio boss. He was originally hired as head of production (supervisor of the studio's film output) under studio chief Louis B. Mayer. In a power shake-up, he was put in Mayer's place. Schary was not even the studio's first choice to be production supervisor. They asked Hal Wallis and David O. Selznick, both of whom turned the job down. Schary had worked for Selznick, and was head of production at RKO, when MGM hired him. He had a reputation for turning RKO around with message pictures and low budget thrillers. He ried to do the same at MGM and it was a bad fit, since MGM's stars and personallel were all about another kind of filmmaking. He was only in the position of studio chief 5 or 6 years.

Fucking 'ancient white fags' troll is shitting all over again. Just put him on ignore.

My mom -- also from Boston

Watch out for the toxic shock syndrome known as R583. He's a diseased old ass. An abscess of bitter emotions and old man regret.

But was Isidore Schary an intellectual?

It seems he allowed John Houseman to have his way. And Manckiwicz doing Shakespeare?

[quote]R584 My mom -- also from Boston

Lana - - [italic]not [/italic] from Boston.

Dore Shary was a cornball hack. He wasn't popular with the talent at MGM.

There are some very strange posts on this thread.

I like Lana a lot and think she's underrated. She can be intensely glamourous without being cold or remote, and when she was younger she was naturally sexy in a way that made other leading ladies of the time look contrived.

R587 lol

And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Plus remember she was a northern New Englander in Peyton Place. She dropped her g's in that, and said kissin' and neckin' -- just like one of us.

Since Bette Davis didn’t care for Marilyn Monroe or her “lousy kitten voice” I have a hard time imagining her being enamored with Tits Turner.

Bette and Lana were on friendly terms. Maybe they bonded over hatred of Joan lol!

I don't know if Bette was on the record about Lana but as already stated, Lana named Bette as her fav actress. Also, she worked at the Hollywood Canteen, founded and run by Bette and John Garfield, so who knows? Maybe Bette Liked her.

[quote]R590 remember she was a northern New Englander in Peyton Place. She dropped her g's in that, and said kissin' and neckin' -- just like one of us.

Dropped her knickers is more like it.

The unrepentant harlotry was unprecedented!

For the next thread, can we go back to talking about what a tremendous bitch Esther Williams was? I never get tired of that one.

I feel like if Bette had any contempt for Lana, she would have made it known. She always took any opportunity she could to talk shit about other actresses. If she loathed Lana, I think we would have heard about it.

Lana and Bette, circa the '60s

^ Or maybe '70s(?)

Whenever it was, Lana looks drunk. And menacing. Bette is signaling for help.

A lot of nonsense in here but for the most part I think we did Lana proud.

Did this soldier have a better shot with Lana, Marlene, or Deanna?