Is wokeness a fad or here to stay?

Another culture wars thread... Hmmm, how random.

If it’s here to stay—welcome to hell.

Not going anywhere, gramps. The kids are here for change.

Wokeness needs to go and it needs to go now. It’s why the Democratic Party is vulnerable. They never learn their lesson: go woke go broke. Wokenes, cancel culture, whatever you want to call it has become insane. If this shit continues, republicans will take back the house and senate in 2022. Also, suppose Biden is history by 2024 and it’s Kamala’s radical socialist America v DeSantis.

These movements come in waves. Remember the 60s? (Of course you do, you're a DLer.)

There will be some lasting changes, but the pendulum will swing back on other issues, like extreme cancel culture.

Equality is here to stay, but the overreaction and sanctimoniousness of 'woke' culture will eventually die down.

Wokeness was over a couple of years ago, but wokescolding will go on until the current staffing of right wing think tanks ages out and a new crop of propagandists discover a new progressive term to turn against them.

It is extremely tedious now. But seems people aren't sufficiently bored or turned off yet. Or if they are, they're too afraid to publicly say so, lest a flock of shrieking Twitter harpies descend.

Culture and social norms are always in flux and always have been. This turmoil over new and shocking ways of life is far from original. A lot of the core ideologies behind what you call "woke culture" will eventually become normalized and part of our every day life and join our foundational world views, and others may be pushed aside and forgotten. It will all feel less subversive as it slowly become a natural part of who we are as a society.

Then another generation of "woke" youths (or whatever they decide to call it in the future), will come along and stir the pot. Millenials and Gen Z will find themselves reeling and saying things like, "they have definitely taken it WAY too far. However, eventually, that too will become normal and boring. That is, until the next generation takes up the reigns with their own brand of counter culture.....and so on.

It's a never ending cycle that goes back to the beginning of history. Lots of subversive cultures and subcultures have existed before. In the 20s, flappers with short hair and dresses were the ones pushing the envelope too far, then it was jazz music, then hippies with their free love and peace, then the cyber punks of the 80s, or the club kids of the 90s, and so on and so on. It has always been a never ending cycle of change and growth.

Every generation thinks they are the first to "shake things up," and that's where the real narcissism is.

I agree that the pendulum will eventually swing back to a more moderate place. Everyone is peeing their pants to lead the WOKENESS PARADE. I am glad and encouraged to see and hear more diverse images and voices, but right now, much of it, in the corporate advertising/messaging realm seems like pandering on steroids.

I don't like using the word "woke" though everyone does know what it means. And yes, R10, it's gross. I don't get why people enjoy being puritanical scolds, but I guess that urge comes to the fore every now and then in human history.

If it’s here to stay then I bow out of voting because there’s no one to vote for. If America wants woke, then woke they shall get.

"Wokeness was over a couple of years ago"

Not on college campuses. Everybody is bending over backwards to insist that you include your pronouns in every communication and have a 'land acknowledgment' of the indigenous people of the area every time you have a meeting. No one bothers to actually do anything like education anymore - they are too exhausted from the sanctimony.

Yay, more right-wing culture war bullshit.

Thank god the boomers are abut to die off soon.

It's here to stay in the West. It's probably our new default orientation. It's such a kneecap: everything we do is burdened by it now. Want to build a business? Prepare for set-asides; endless "community consultations" about every significant move; demands for childcare, outreach, prayer breaks, etc.

You can't hire the best, move quickly, build, and profit anymore. Incumbents were allowed to do that before: now they're locked-in because new players have to do all that extra stuff. There won't be a new Amazon to compete with it.

It's like we're one big California—can't build anything big without layers of wokeness alms first. Big business can pay the alms, but new ventures have this extra layer to even get going.

Like we can compete anymore. Please. We're as whipped by our own wokeness as the EU.

As they say, the road to hell was paved with good intentions. Wokeness comes from progressivism, but it’s actually self-promotion masked as concern for others.

It’s largely a creature of social media. I suspect even worse things, springing from baser instincts, are waiting for us. QAnon is a perfect example. Millions of low IQs have easy access to social media and can be weaponized by unscrupulous people. And will be.

thanks for the thread start , Boris ( OP)

I don’t think woke culture is necessarily a bad thing but critical race theory definitely needs to go. Let’s be honest it just tells white people to be ashamed of who they are and does nothing to foster unity.

Identity politics needs to go too. Hiring pilots on the basis of correct skin color and gender is insane and ridiculous.

I recently discovered a leftist YouTuber who is a hardcore BernieBro socialist - hates Obama, Hillary and Biden but still voted for them because he recognized that they were still better than the alternatives. He was a guest on a podcast hosted by another YouTuber who was another BernieBro but who turned into a Trumpster (probably because it gave him more clicks and views, but that's another story), and he said that leftists like him HATE Robin DiAngelo's book, and he firmly believes that corporate PR wokeism, which includes things like diversity training, doesn't actually work.

It was actually quite refreshing seeing an actual proud leftist seeing corporations jumping on the woke train for what it is. Corporations only give a shit about optics and their bottom line.

I see it's feed time at the retirement home.

What exactly is bad about personal responsibility? Isn't it what you all wanted from us? I guess you only wanted it when it didn't apply to you.

I'm sure half of you are still waiting for a participation trophy from the election.

R19 you are basically contradicting yourself i

To opaque for my dumb brain, R21. Please simplify/clarify what you're saying.

Biden ran on unity and now that he’s in office he’s doing the complete opposite. His comments on vaccine rollout Neanderthal thinking and the Jim Crow voting law in Georgia. Typical phony democrat.

If you don't like it, stop consuming media that promote it (including hate-reading Twitter, giving their ads your eyeballs), and stop buying from companies that support it. You can't just complain: you have to direct your value as a consumer away from it—your money and your attention.

Liberty has been dying inch by inch for years. The new generations certainly have no time for it: it scares them. The have no time for free speech as it causes offense, and they see no value in privacy. We’re fucked: walking wide eyed into 1984.

And the biggest aiders and abetters are the left. I don’t see the left pushing back against it AT ALL. Not a single notable figure on the left has taken a stand against any of it. It’s like the October Revolution in slow motion: every fucking nutter on the streets, and not one brave adult prepared to call them out.

R21, it means most of these people are astroturfing "unity" seekers.

Cancel culture was invented by the GOP and the "Greatest" Generation. Now they all whine their way into the grave about how horrible it is that people won't give them their money.

They shouldn't have given us the blueprint.

R25 is correct. Boycott companies and celebrities who are woke. That’s what I do.

very succinct R26

Progress scares the beejesus out of our white elders

The nation's IQ is steadily declining. It's happening throughout the West. Education is to blame: it's not a matter of funding but rather what's being taught/neglected.

Here to stay until we get invaded by China.

[quote]The nation's IQ is steadily declining. It's happening throughout the West.

This isn’t true. I believe IQs are going up. Someone here refuted this. This is always posted and always debunked.

[quote] Then another generation of "woke" youths (or whatever they decide to call it in the future), will come along and stir the pot. Millenials and Gen Z will find themselves reeling and saying things like, "they have definitely taken it WAY too far. However, eventually, that too will become normal and boring. That is, until the next generation takes up the reigns with their own brand of counter culture.....and so on.

Many people think that wokeism comes from culture. It does not.

[quote] Wokeness comes from progressivism, but it’s actually self-promotion masked as concern for others.

This is true but I don't think it's progressive. It's the corporate left that pushes wokeism. The hard left and the hard right both reject it because they see it for the scam that it really is.

R33, not true. The Flynn Effect is over in the West.

IQs in the West.

Slate is woke.

R33.

IQs down.

OP is a stupid moron

Big tech has rules for posting on their platforms

What OP really means is, "are we going to have to keep abiding by rules/regulations set forth by private companies"?

Wokeness will disappear as soon as "the kids" fully realize what a hassle it is to defend. When they themselves get sick of standing on flimsy & untrue foundations & losing against actual facts then wokeness will fade. I've said before that when this generation has to deal with each other in actual adult situation they'll reconsider/adjust their views to those that are more practical & realistic. It's hard to get around the facts for any substantial amount of time, we all know that. Sure, it's been beneficial that a few social aspects have been considered from other angles & I think a few of revelations will become intellectually practical to become the norm. But generalized blanket accusations, excused burning of city blocks & looting, corporate & learning environments being turned upside down to suit a vocal minority, pararealities being forced upon reality, shaming & guilt tactics--all this mess will eventually come for those who so voraciously defend & execute it now. Logically, this current woke ideology will just have to correct itself.

R33 the supposedly previously "debunked on Datalounge" part relates to whether American IQs are declining. Recent studies showing declines in the West have focused on Europe, not America, but most analysts say it's probably happening here as well.

R41 kinda like what happened to the Hippie movement. We saw how they became as they aged. almost a "180"

Translation: "wHY dON'T i gET to sAY tHE n-wORD???"

I think another society that doesn't subscribe to wokeness needs to rise and set a counterexample that shows in stark contrast how much we've decayed from the inside with this stuff.

Russia maybe? Is India woke? China? Someone in the Middle East?

R39 et al - thanks for clearing that up, kween. Interesting.

You have to break up the mega monopolies. As Josh Hawley said, when these corporations have less economic power, they will have less political power. That will be the death of wokeness.

Or maybe corporate America has finally figured out a few things:

a. America is racist af;

b. 1/2 the country is totally cool with that (cf: this fucking thread);

c. 1/2 the country is completely fed up with this shit;

d. POC actually do spend money, and can inflict financial damage if they organize.

See how easy that is? Get over your tired kneejerk buzzwords, look at what drives a corporation to avoid boycotts, and perhaps you'll actually learn something.

Wokeness is actually hurting these companies, no? Viewership is down for the NFL and NBA, Hollywood is obviously suffering, award shows, networks...I think this is attributed to the woke, if I’m not mistaken. It seems like a costly fad.

R48, you used "cf." where you should have used "e.g."

Why do people like the OP think that being aware of and concerned about things like equal civil rights and equal treatment under the law and fighting against systemic straight white male supremacy are 'fads' or 'bad things' that they hope 'go away'??

R47, fuck everything Josh FUCKONG Hawley has ever said.

Josh Hawley is a bootlicking fascist closeted homocon, so forgive me if I don't accept him as a moral authority on economic boycotts.

Pushy people need people to push around. Right now a lot of people are into being pushed around, told what to believe and what to think -- eyeballs be damned. It's the pushiness itself which appeals. It's a safe middle-ground between fucking and fighting, I guess.

Wokeness ?

I've been awoke since 6:45 am, and will probably be until 11:20 pm, at which time the sleepness will commence.

Repeat as necessary.

[quote] It seems like a costly fad.

It's actually very profitable for them because they can use it to stifle competition. More people used Facebook and Twitter to organize on January 6, yet it was OTHER social networks being banned. CNN and MSNBC use wokeism to try to get other stations pulled off the air. They also rail against Substack and other indepdendent journalists who threaten their monopoly by calling them racist and transphobic. Jeff Bezos uses The Washington Post to spread disinformation about our current elections even as he denies people in his own company a voice. Hollywood promotes social justice in their films even as they enable predators behind the scenes. BLM co founder urges white people to give up their property, yet purchases several multi million dollars homes in predominantly white neighborhoods. So as you can see, wokeism benefits those at the top financially.

[quote]I've been awoke since 6:45 am, and will probably be until 11:20 pm, at which time the sleepness will commence.

Werq kween, yaaas. Klever kween.

I wonder if there's a big hunger out there now for a Hollywood film that sticks a finger up political correcteness period. That really sets out to offend in very best possible way, and does -- thrilling.

I'm not sure there is. Just look at the reception for I Care A Lot -- a really great black comedy-drama. But the response of many was snowflake shit: "oh this is in such bad taste... oh this makes me uncomfortable... Oh I don't understand why its so mean spirited...etc etc.". FOR FUCK SAKE: THAT'S THE FUCKING AIM!

The term is the fad. Compassion is a novelty.

No celebrity has been cancelled except maybe the Dixie Chicks and that was by the same rightwingers who are whining about "cancel culture."

Almost everyone who was cancelled is either (a) getting criticism for hateful and/or controversial opinions, which they call "being cancelled," because they're big babies, or (b) committed or credibly accused of an actual crime.

The only true victims of this are people like the girl who posted a video calling her friends the n-word with the hard r years ago, who the media decided to attack for reasons that are still unclear, but probably for clicks and ad dollars. There's only been a few of those so far, but they had nothing to do with "wokeness" and everything to do with profits and corporations.

The sooner DLers realize the sky-is-falling rightwing propagandists are lying to them about this imagined horde of bloodthirsty SJWs, the better.

*Too

I blame my iPhone. Surprised there were no "Oh, dear!" comments on this.

R60 oh gawd , not you again

Unfortunately "woke" gets used as a slur now, which doesn't do actual "wokeness" any favors. Here's the definition of "woke" on Wikipedia:

[quote]Woke (/ˈwoʊk/ WOHK) is a term that refers to awareness of issues that concern social justice and racial justice.[4] It is sometimes used in the African-American Vernacular English expression stay woke. Woke resurfaced in 2014 during the Black Lives Matter movement as a label for vigilance and activism concerning racial inequalities[5] and other social disparities such as discrimination against the LGBTQ+ community, women, immigrants and or other marginalized populations.[6]

It literally reflects class consciousness. There is no problem in that. When people talk about canceling "wokeness" or "identity politics", they're literally saying "We want you to stop thinking about how the bourgeoisie is fucking you over." People like James Carville, The Clintons, and other neolibs would like to maintain the status quo, the "Rainbow Capitalism" of ten years ago. Fuck that.

R63 Woke is neoliberal. Why do colleges who push woke ideology receive billions in endowments while our public schools fall into disrepair? Why are predominantly black cities descending further into crime while multi billion dollar companies like Amazon get a pass for posting a Black Lives Matter banner on their front page? Why do Hollywood celebrites get paid obscene salaries for starring in movies that fulfill the Woke agenda? Why do companies like Uber who offer no protections for their employees get a pass? Could it be because they virtue signal? What about Nike making Colin Kapernick their spokesmen while they benefit from Chinese slave labor? What about Colin Kapernick himself, being paid millions in endorsement deals despite having never voted? What about massive corporations who have done shit for minorities using wokeism to ban other individuals or corporations. Or Google altering or censoring their algorithms to suppress stories that threaten their bottom line, and when called out on it, simply accuse their critics as being racist. It's all so transparent.

Not only do these neoliberals do nothing, they advocate for policies that harm the minority citizens they purport to care about such as defunding the police.

Interesting take from a teacher.

R66 that is some WILD shit.

[quote]I wonder if there's a big hunger out there now for a Hollywood film that sticks a finger up political correcteness period.

R58, of course there is... among racist sexist Straight White Male supremacists and Conservatives stuck on an idealized 1950s (or 1850s) that never was. Sure.

[quote]People like James Carville, The Clintons, and other neolibs would like to maintain the status quo

R63, I was with you right up until this bullshit sentence.

People like R64 don't have a fucking clue what the word "neoliberal" is, and just use it as a smear against liberals and Democrats -- WHO IT DOES NOT DESCRIBE.

"Neoliberal" has at its center support for policies of austerity and deregulation. This is the OPPOSITE of nearly every Democrat and Liberal at this point in time. It's more accurate to describe 80s and 90s and even 2000s Republicans with the term. MAYBE some 80s and 90s Democrats (because that's what they had to say in public in the wake of Reagan in order to get elected). But it's sure as hell not true NOW. It's as ignorant as claiming Republicans are the party of fiscal responsibility and family values. It's a complete lie.

Anytime I see some tool smearing Democrats with the term "neoliberal" I know I'm dealing with a clueless ignorant Left Winger moron... like a Berner or a DSA idiot. No clue. Self-sabotaging stupidity.

[quote]Not only do these neoliberals do nothing, they advocate for policies that harm the minority citizens they purport to care about such as defunding the police

Perfect example here. It's the FAR LEFT, not Democrats (and certainly not "Neoliberals") that advocate for defunding and/or abolishing the Police. Dumbass.

[quote]Wokeness needs to go and it needs to go now. It’s why the Democratic Party is vulnerable. They never learn their lesson: go woke go broke. Wokenes, cancel culture, whatever you want to call it has become insane. If this shit continues, republicans will take back the house and senate in 2022. Also, suppose Biden is history by 2024 and it’s Kamala’s radical socialist America v DeSantis.

That's bullshit, R4, and you know it's bullshit. There won't even be a GOP by 2022, Joe Biden will run unopposed and be re-elected with 100% of the vote and mandatory voting, and the 22nd amendment will be history since it was just a right-wing attack on the authority of FDR.

"Cancel culture" is a right-wing myth, and anyone who considers it a thing is a liar who needs to have their social media accounts revoked and their jobs taken away from them.

Has it not always been? In the past it was a select and privileged few that got to cancel whatever they wanted. Now the masses make their voices heard. Is that not what this is really about? The masses taking away yet another privilege from the elite?

uh no R73

Don't know much about Critical Race Theory except that Fox Noise is absolutely obsessed with it.

Which is probably why I don't gaf.

[quote]Which is probably why I don't gaf.

That’s what they want.

I studied critical race theory in college in the late aughts. I love it.

I've tried discussing all of these goddamn issues with all of these white women (including my pretty liberal racist mother) for years and was ignored and excoriated for even mentioning race.

Now these bitches preach like they're Al Sharpton. I'm glad they care, I hope they make things better, but they're sure treating it like fashion.

You are Yas Kween ^^.

OP thinks it's wrong for companies to endorse "woke" viewpoints but cool for them to endorse right-wing ones

Liberals have always existed. Deal with it. Liberals are the reason you're not in jail for "sodomy" right now

Are you on multiple devices R79?

“Wokeness” is a term only used by Right wing trolls. Troll thread.

Yeah. What Republicans & Conservatives decry as "Cancel Culture" is simply "Being held personally responsible for your words and actions."

What they smear and sneer at as "Wokeness" and "Identity Politics" is simply "Civil Rights" and advocating for equal treatment under the law for all Americans. They HATE that.

[quote] "Neoliberal" has at its center support for policies of austerity and deregulation. This is the OPPOSITE of nearly every Democrat and Liberal at this point in time.

Neoliberal: "favoring policies that promote free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending."

I don't see any liberals arguing against breaking up the big tech monopolies or holding massive corporations accountable. The corporations supported Biden's campaign just as there was greater scrutiny placed on them for targeting users. Biden fits the definition perfectly.

R83, no he fucking does not. What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you paying ZERO attention? He's advocating huge spending programs (the American Rescue Plan, the American Jobs & Infrastructure Plan, etc). His every police is the exact fucking OPPOSITE of "Neoliberal". You fucking dumbass.

Thanks R66 for the link to that fabulous, brave, and fascinating article.

Who would be a teacher today?! The brainwashing shit he describes is as worse as anything in a communist ditatorship.

RE: R66. Fuck the NYPost!

Twitter is responsible for spreading woke/cancel culture to the media before it was hidden on tumblr.

It’s all fake from the media. Don’t tell a sister how to feel!

“Wokeness” just means that old white men don’t get to set all the rules anymore. Cry me a fucking river!

Woke culture is as big of a cancer on society as the injustices it means to correct. It clings to the idea of victimization and in many cases sees situations in black and white. There is no room for rational thought. Somebody offends me then I demand that they be canceled! Somebody says they were discriminated against? It must be true, I won’t even bother to gather any facts. It’s toxic. It isn’t making the world a better place.

r5 is correct. "woke" is just a new name for a very old, very human phenomenon, and is fundamentally a classic battle: conservative/tradition vs. liberal/change. In the 90's it was called "PC culture," and in 20 years it will have a new name. The players change, the strategies change, but there is only ever the one game.

Woke is NOTHING what R91 describes.

Woke is about harming vulnerable kids; woke is homophobic; woke is about minorities, specifically blacks to do whatever the fuck they want to do; woke is about brainwashing.

No, R93. Apparently you're a racist sexist fuck to even assume any of that. Being anti-Woke is being pro-Straight-White-Male Supremacy. Period.

[quote]As they say, the road to hell was paved with good intentions. Wokeness comes from progressivism, but it’s actually self-promotion masked as concern for others. It’s largely a creature of social media. I suspect even worse things, springing from baser instincts, are waiting for us. QAnon is a perfect example. Millions of low IQs have easy access to social media and can be weaponized by unscrupulous people. And will be.

[quote]Liberty has been dying inch by inch for years. The new generations certainly have no time for it: it scares them. The have no time for free speech as it causes offense, and they see no value in privacy. We’re fucked: walking wide eyed into 1984.

I agree with both of these sentiments.

[quote]Why do people like the OP think that being aware of and concerned about things like equal civil rights and equal treatment under the law and fighting against systemic straight white male supremacy are 'fads' or 'bad things' that they hope 'go away'??

Equality and civil rights aren’t a fad but awareness and concern for equality and civil rights also isn’t what wokeness is about anymore. Wokeness has taken on an entitled, authoritarian tone and it’s frightening and alienating.

Wokeness is Idris Elba not being black enough because he doesn’t fit a stereotype.

(I didn’t even know eating Caribbean food was a stereotype, today I learned)

[quote]"Wokeness has taken on an entitled, authoritarian tone and it’s frightening and alienating."

Only to old racist sexist straight white men.

[quote]"Wokeness is Idris Elba not being black enough because he doesn’t fit a stereotype."

That's pure bullshit. That isn't wokeness. That's racism in another form. Don't get it mixed up and confused.

Er, r94, if he's saying "blacks get to do whatever they want" and "being woke means hurting children" then, yeah, he's a racist fuck.

[quote]No, [R93]. Apparently you're a racist sexist fuck to even assume any of that. Being anti-Woke is being pro-Straight-White-Male Supremacy. Period.

This is all the woke has. This sums up the woke. That’s why it’s a cancer and no different than any other form of extremism.

The people who complain about ANY group like to take extreme examples or find people who are really wrong (and sometimes trolling) and hold them up as the epitome of whatever group they're complaining about.

That's why someone is bringing up the BBC diversity chief saying "Idris Elba didn't act black enough" as "being woke" because that's what the Sun and the Daily Mail said, but no one at the BBC said the words "he wasn't black enough to be real." That's not a quote, even though it's in quotes. The media is lying. They're lying so someone can say "look at how racist the woke people are."

What the diversity chief said was that he didn't have any black friends, which I think is a valid concern when talking about a show that's supposed to have diversity. The thing she said about his character never eating Caribbean food was stupid, absolutely, but it wasn't about "being woke."

If the media doesn't provide people with a strawman to trot out as an example of how "the woke are ruining the world" or whatever, they'll just find some poor idiot on Twitter with 17 followers who said something stupid and use THEM as an example.

Wokeness is exhausting, that is what it is.

Whatever wokeness is, or whether it's doing any good, my disgust for critical race theory and "racial balancing" at top public high schools (getting rid of exams for top high schools so that the student body can reflect the area's racial makeup—even if it means kicking out the Asian kids so more white kids can attend those top schools) has made me a likely GOP vote for 2022.

I'm so sick of this disgusting race stuff.

[quote] Being Woke is being pro-Straight-Black-Male Supremacy. Period.

Fixed.

That’s exactly what it is R102. It’s a black nationalist movement. It’s about blacks being able to do whatever the flying fuck they want to do, specifically break the law.

All it’s going to take is a Rupert Murdoch type person cashing in on people being tired of the PC crap and starting a new network in the way Fox originally started, being the rebel network. Said individual will make shitloads of easy cash. That’s when it’ll turn around. There’s only so much outrage people can take.

Business rationale will kill it, especially when the Millenials and under realize they are excessively pandering to a group that makes up about 13% - and a large portion of that group shops with sticky fingers.

Bottom line: long term there is no money to be made in being overly-woke.

[quote] All it’s going to take is a Rupert Murdoch type person cashing in on people being tired of the PC crap and starting a new network in the way Fox originally started, being the rebel network. Said individual will make shitloads of easy cash. That’s when it’ll turn around. There’s only so much outrage people can take.

I’d like to see somebody do not only that but use nothing but gay white male anchors to do so.

The Left has become what the Right was back in the early 1990s. They want to be the moral police. They are killing everything including art. Corporations are gaging public sentiment by Twitter but Twitter isn’t the world.

[quote]a group that makes up about 13% - and a large portion of that group shops with sticky fingers.

Jesus, it's a fuckin' Klan rally around here lately.

Yes, I'm sure the very gay R101 is going to vote for a party that has anti-gay policies in their platform, and has had for decades now, just because he thinks some Asian kids were kicked out of a school somewhere or something.

R109, gay stuff isn't an issue anymore with the GOP. Cf. trans.

And I'm Asian, so I kind of care.

[quote] The Left has become what the Right was back in the early 1990s. They want to be the moral police.

That’s why I don’t believe them when they say “defund the police.” They will be the first and turn around to call for Republican politicians to be locked up based on hearsay and conjecture.

Some of it is legit, some of it is a fucking joke. The way Nike was hailed for hiring Kaepernick is an example. They scored major woke points for that but were still busy busting unions and trampling on workers rights in the developed world, most recently in Cambodia and Vietnam.

This place has been overrun by right-wingers.

Leave if you can’t stand it, R113. Maybe it’s just not for you anymore.

Can you have voted only Democrat your entire voting life and still be right-wing?

Eventually we will find a happy medium. Wokeness may seem annoying but I am happy that a lot of old institutional setups and racism (had to say it) is being called out. Sure, lots of people are shocked and blindsided when what they thought was “normal” and “fair” is shown to be anything but for lots of people in society, but we are getting that band aide ripped off. There was bound to be some pain and a lot of frustration.

The fact that there are still people that refuse to believe that institutionalized racism exists is proof positive that organic change from the majority wasn’t going to just happen. People had to be pushed, just like they had to be pushed with gay rights. So, the internet banded together to push these ideas.

Think of it like Civil Rights, after LBJ’s Civil Rights bills were passed into law, a number of white people wanted CR leaders and activists to just shut up about the other issues They raised and just let America live in piece. Leaders kept pushing, some lost their lives over their continued fight (MLK Jr). Eventually, black concerns became increasingly ignored. Meanwhile, a new normal or equilibrium occurred that included more integration between people of color and white people. So we made progress, but there was a lot of other issues left unaddressed and simmering.

The issues brought up by CR leaders, gay rights, female rights didn’t go away. Thanks to the internet, we are in an era when these voices can join together to magnify their message. We’ve already made some great reforms and educated a lot of people thanks to “woke activists”. I’m not sure how much more progress we can make during this era before things go a little quiet and the new normal sets in. But I’m happy wokeness has taken root for awhile.

I feel that most people have modified their language and perhaps outlook a bit. I’ve seen it in jobs and general views on issues. So woke people can be fucking annoying, but we’ve made gains since it’s become a big thing. We will find a happier medium that will stop a lot of cancel culture activity while establishing these new social codes of conduct in our society.

I hope I’m making sense.

Oh! And to this day, factories in China which manufacture Nike products use actual slave labour. Not very woke.

No major media organizations are covering this, so the company gets to latch on to whatever movement is trendy in North America and profit from it. Consumers who care about human rights think they're doing good by purchasing gear from a progressive company and have no idea of what's going on behind the slick advertising. It's sad, sickening, and in the end, it's all about money, just like everything always is.

[quote] Can you have voted only Democrat your entire voting life and still be right-wing?

Yes, Comrade.

R116, do you think that we're likely to reach a happy medium before there's a *huge* backlash that blocks significant further reform?

I think it's coming.

It look like we were getting a lot of the big things right in the 1970s and 1980s but then things started to go way off the rails. It all started when American universities started adopting postmodernism.

You made perfect sense, R116, and I agree!

There have been enough changes made since the Supreme Court ruled against segregation that many of these current gestures really feel like overcompensating. No white person under 55 could possibly remember what Jim Crow was like.

[quote]The Left has become what the Right was back in the early 1990s. They want to be the moral police. They are killing everything including art.

The Moral Majority didn't kill art when it had the weight of the government behind it during the late 80s and early 90s, so no, some Twitter "SJWs" aren't going to kill art NOW, you melodramatic troll.

R119 I don’t think so.

1. The largest voting blocks and current drivers of what’s hip (Gen-Z and Millennials) are largely in support of the broader ideas pushed by work activists. It’s Gen-X and Boomers that are largely losing their shit.

2. The internet has decentralized a lot of social power. As I said, the largest generations taking over more of Western society, but I’d like to focus on the US, are working via the internet. The old guard can post an article about the dangers of wokeness but the online masses know how to make a mockery of a hit piece. Of course there are objections from every age online, but their is a lot of self-policing that occurs to drown them out or make them into fools. They tend to if in their safe-spaces on the internet.

3. It’s becoming ingrained in many schools already. Thanks to those Millennial teachers and schools admins. Now I’m not a teacher so I can be wrong, but based on TikToks alone, wokeness and acceptance is now a defect part of a lot of classrooms. I mean that to say, increased respect for queer students, increased education about black history, breaking down gender norms when taking about careers and positions in society.

Now, we see backlash from state legislatures and the GQP, but again their demographics are largely Gen-X and Boomers. The only area that has cross functional support as a bridge too far is the Trans Athletes thing.

I can obviously be wrong but even under an asshole like Trump, they couldn’t stop wokeness because it’s propelled via the internet. It’s come about quickly so maybe it will disappear just as fast. I do think it has a left a mark on society that will determine social conduct.

I hope it continues to rot everything, at an accelerated pace. What we have is irredeemable and too far-gone.

I want a new world, and for that, the present one has to decay into ruin.

A new model of society and governance is arising elsewhere, and for it to embrace all people, our present model needs to show it can't function let alone compete.

Mao’s Cultural Revolution was cancel culture on steroids, and largely driven by youths. For those who smugly point out how younger generations always having more progressive or better ideas than older generations, that’s one outright rebuttal to prove that theory wrong.

As for regressive policies and personal beliefs, it’s very simple to say again, that they’re the territory of Boomers and Gen X’ers or older Millennials. I’m 40 but I interact with people across generations. Generally older people are less likely to complain, have grievances and take them as personal affronts. My younger patients are generally the opposite, they can turn seemingly anything into personal slights against them. When something becomes personal then anger gets misdirected against people whom they consider to be offending parties. Is this a good way to base policies? Look at Mao’s Cultural Revolution again, it took China decades to rid itself of the fallout and its legacy still isn’t completely gone.

How were gays treated under Mao’s Cultural Revolution?

I'm an older millennial and I can say without a doubt that people my age don't subscribe to any of the woke shit. The people who do are those who came of age during the time of social media, so the oldest ones would have been born in the early 90s. Although older millennials are not woke, they are also more likely than previous generations to just keep their head down and not try to rock the boat, perhaps because they don't understand the woke generation but know enough not to cause trouble for themselves.

IQ drop is directly related to the influx of lower IQ immigrants.

Most African nations have an IQ around 80. Import a few million of these sub moronic primitives into your country and -surprise surprise!- collective IQ drops.

“ “Antiracist” training sounds righteous, but it is the opposite of truth in advertising. It requires teachers like myself to treat students differently on the basis of race. Furthermore, in order to maintain a united front for our students, teachers at Grace are directed to confine our doubts about this pedagogical framework to conversations with an in-house “Office of Community Engagement” for whom every significant objection leads to a foregone conclusion. Any doubting students are likewise “challenged” to reframe their views to conform to this orthodoxy.”

R130, did you get that from The Federalist? The NYPost? The American Conservative?

Woke is brainwashing black kids into thinking they are powerless victims for whom school is too hard. Hardly empowering.

For those criticizing the New York Post, yes, it leans conservative. However, it also has up to date NYC news and COVID/Cuomo coverage.

Their editorials are sometimes interesting.

I take everything I read online with a grain of salt. When I read a Covid story on the NYP, I know they will more than likely criticize Cuomo. The NYT is also biased. I think most of us are intelligent enough critical thinker/readers to recognize this.

I think comparing Mao’s Cultural Revolution to the woke is compelling and I can see that happening here.

It would never happen here because our government doesn’t allow that type of social intrusion despite the attempts of both parties at various times. We really have more freedom then we know, especially compared to places like China.

I believe in justice and equality. Wokeness has become monstrous, though—it’s largely sanctimonious airheads on Twitter trying to score points by pointing out anything and everything they decree “problematic”...essentially looking for issues were often none exist. Why else cancel films and literature from bygone eras simply because they don’t reflect our current cultural paradigm.

The weaponisation of the trans issue is a keystone and the road it’s going down is ridiculous and disturbing. I saw an article recently which obviously saw the terms “man” and “woman” as problematic, so it referred to “people with penises” and “people with vaginas”.

What this extreme wokeness is doing is pushing people to the right. I’ve seen it happen with friends and family...heck, it even makes me reconsider my leftie credentials. Which makes me wonder if woke culture isn’t some psy op to manipulate people into turning hard right.

[quote]The Left has become what the Right was back in the early 1990s. They want to be the moral police.

This is absolutely true.

[quote] A new model of society and governance is arising elsewhere

Where? Describe this new model.

[quote]I think most of us are intelligent enough critical thinker/readers to recognize this.

Have you been asleep for a few years? We as a society (and "we" as in "Dataloungers") are most certainly not intelligent, critical thinkers. A large percentage of us might be but I would doubt it's a majority, or even half.

Can fascism be of the left?

The legacy of slavery is definitive in the United States.

R139 I guess that is bias on my part; I trend to assume most gay men are educated and/or intelligent. I was speaking of Dataloungers only, the world at large.

For the poster saying the only people who have issues with woke culture are the “baby boomers,” I don’t think that’s the case. I’m Gen X myself and I have a feeling it’s my generation that is most dismayed by it. I picture the baby boomers being, “ah who cares about this silliness in the workplace, I’m enjoying my retirement.”

[quote] What they smear and sneer at as "Wokeness" and "Identity Politics" is simply "Civil Rights" and advocating for equal treatment under the law for all Americans.

It's more than "under the law". They're advocating for broad cultural and social change.

Wokeness is not civil rights. Telling white kids they are evil oppressors and black kids they are victims has nothing to do with equality.

R137 also the woke Left isn’t just satisfied with being moral police. Like wingnuts of 80-90s they also seek to indoctrinate the youth. Except instead of fundie religion in schools it’s now Critical Race Theory on top of banning books judged to be problematic.

OP is just so thirsty for genocide and he's going to stomp his tiny, little feet until he gets it!

[quote]The weaponisation of the trans issue is a keystone and the road it’s going down is ridiculous and disturbing.

You mean like the anti-Trans legislation going through 20 state legislatures in the US in an effort to rile up conservatives? The endless pushing of anti-Trans rhetoric on Datalounge attempting to split political opinions?

That kind of weaponization?

Dr John Money would be so very proud today. He would be so proud. The “gender identity” - it’s just sickening.

This is actually an intriguing analysis of the woke movement.

America became more divided after Obama was elected president.

Skin color is the only thing that matters, says white black woman.