Hungary

Why ask one question, when a million will do?

They've been important contributors to gay porn.

I won't go because it's being run by a total authoritarian creep at the moment.

That’s a Twitter account that includes a few photos previously posted to DL - and all of which were on that strange “GaryKube2” Flickr stream posted here a few weeks ago. What are you trying (not never well, I might add) to pull, OP?

Goodness, I was just curious about Hungary! I forgot to ask what gay life is like there, duh, but if it has some kind of right-wing dictator, then I guess it's not doing too well.

That's a fabulously handsome porn actor at OP's link.

I spent some time there in 2016, just before Trump was elected. Got a lot of questions about him. There is a very stark difference between the older generations that grew up under communism and the younger population. The former being very dour, the latter being friendly and vibrant. I think that divide is evident in nearly every other aspect of the culture, which is what made it an interesting place. Loved Budapest--hot men everywhere, like OP said. Seriously, the most attractive men I've ever seen. They walk around in groups.

Yes, it's gorgeous but you can also feel the weight of history there, which adds a kind of eeriness to it.

Paprika.

Budapest is more friendly than Prague.

The men are friendly enough, the women are stone cold bitches

[quote]Who are some famous Hungarians that a DL'er should know, other than the Gabor sisters?

Bela Lugosi, Peter Lorre, Harry Houdini

[quote]Budapest is more friendly than Prague.

It also has MUCH better food.

I think the people in Budapest drink more than any European city I have ever visited. Even London. I was staying in a little B&B in town and there was a bar across the street. Big crowds after work, and when I got up at 7am there were still people there drinking.

Budapest is beautiful city. The government is very anti-gay and I won’t travel there.

I have that Twitter account blocked. Nazi Fuck Alert. OP is a Qunt.

R15 - I bet you came here initially to say that Hungary was better off under communism. Dirty commie! I've ff'd you. Blocked (mic drop).

Did someone mention my name? My Flickr photo archive is a DL treasure, if I do say so! Here's a link to just some of the many albums available.

I knew a hung Gary.

OP is an ancient pedo.

Hungarian gets something of a bum rap as an impossible language, going back to Mark Twain I think. But it's not: if you can master Finnish then you certainly can handle Hungarian.

Hungarians -- talking educated city folk here -- are indeed serious people. Intellectuals and creative types get respect. Ask about famous Hungarians and you'll hear the names of poets and artists, painters and composers.

Hungary lies in a basin, and there's not much impressive nature to see. Lake Balaton's the big summer destination and Hungarians love it, but only because it's the best they've got.

The cities though more than make up for the missing natural grandeur. Just look at a map and pick a couple. Szeged and Pécs, for example.

History matters a lot to Hungarians, especially the country's accomplishments during the Dual Monarchy. Trianon -- the loss of Hungary's empire after World War I -- remains the country's great modern wound, so step carefully when talking history with Hungarians.

Budapest is one of my favorite major cities. I feel so safe getting lost there, far safer than in cities at home in the U.K.

The only places I have felt safer and happier are Cologne, DE and Antwerp, NL. I would count Rejkyavik, too, but when I went there was basically nobody there so I’m not sure it counts (and it’s scary to feel isolated, as much as trapped and at risk...)

Go away, Nazi pedo.

Thanks for the interesting info, R20. Come to think of it, I never have heard or seen of the natural sights in Hungary - didn't know there weren't any! Finnish is also an impossible language, so I think they're both too hard to learn. You didn't go into the men, but I'm sure they're magnificent!

I visited Budapest in the ancient of days - 1985.

The Iron curtain was still up; Hungary was still communist, and it was grim, grim, grim.

We were there in May, and took the train from Budapest to Venice.

The contrast on arriving in Italy was like when Judy Garland stepped out into Oz.

I’m sure it’s very different now.

Did a Google image search on "Hungarian castles" and there are lots of really beautiful ones to see.

Was there several winters ago.I remember it was mostly cold, rainy and the men are ok. It was your typical easter/central euro city. I would say it's quite forgettable and no plan of coming back.

[quote]Bela Lugosi, Peter Lorre, Harry Houdini...

Adolph Zukor, Ernie Knovacs, George Cukor, Michael Curtiz (Casablanca.),

^^Kovacs

The language isn't as hard as people say, apart from most of the vocabulary not being related to other nearby languages (so you can't guess based on your Spanish or whatever). The spelling is weird looking but totally phonetic. There's no grammatical gender. The "twenty noun cases" or whatever that people warn you about aren't cases in the sense of Latin, Russian, or German cases; they're just word-endings that don't vary (except for vowel harmony, which is basically predictable)—you just memorize the ending and stick at the end of any noun, singular or plural. Verbs are simple—very few tenses; a few irregular verbs like in any language, but no multiple conjugations to memorize like in Spanish or Italian, etc. I can't claim I'm anywhere near fluent but I learned enough to have little conversations with my Hungarian neighbors.

And no, my neighbors weren't porn stars, they were a dumpy but friendly husband and wife and their two unruly offspring.

[quote]Adolph Zukor, Ernie Knovacs, George Cukor, Michael Curtiz (Casablanca.),

Freddie Prinze

Budapest is a beautiful city with great food and is very safe, walkable and tourist friendly (or was pre-Covid)

Jewish Quarter, which is the nightlife center can sometimes be overrun by drunken Brits on hen party or stag party weekends, and ruin bars are very cool.

Smaller cities and villages are still quaint and don't feel as Western.

While Orban is a fascist wannabe, you won't be aware of it unless you follow politics--it's not Berlin in the 30s or anything like that and Grindr was all lit up.

Most people under 40 in Budapest speak English or enough to have a conversation.

Hungarians think of themselves as central Europeans along with Czechs, Germans, Austrians and Swiss-- do not like to be thought of as Eastern Europeans and can be very snobbish about Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians, Serbs, Ukrainians, etc.

They may think of themselves that way, R31, but they decidedly aren't. They are still enveloped in their love of Miklos Horthy and his politics.

OP’s pic looks like Michael Douglas. Pass

Don't base your impression of Hungary on a four year old Atlantic article R32, especially one with an angle.

Unless of course you believe that Trump is proof that Americans have not gotten over our love of Senator Joseph McCarthy and Father Coughlin

Hungary has avoided a lot of the social problems that plague a country like France...

J'adore Wellhello!

Sure, R34. Convince me that the things have changed - if anything, Orban has gotten even more authoritarian. I'll be waiting patiently for your "debunking" (yeah, right...)

Hungarian food is interesting There is a YouTube channel called Webspoon based out of Hungary

I've been to Budapest and a few cities around the country and had a great time. There are some good dishes! Goulash! Paprikash!!!

The thermal baths are great as well. Beautiful country..

OP, your man is sneering at us. Not a good look.

They got a ton of shit for not accepting migrants, but Hungarians know what the fuck is up with Islam. Muslims ruled Hungary for 200 years and destroyed the country. They told Merkel to go fuck herself, they weren't taking any.

The food also doesn’t get as much love as, say, French, or Italian, or German (though it shares a lot with the Germans) but I could very well live exclusively on Hungarian food.

[quote]I won't go because it's being run by a total authoritarian creep at the moment.

So are lots of countries, Princess. Doesn't mean it's not a gorgeous country with lovely people.

Shouldn't you be writing for Arktos, R41? Oh, wait, you probably are doing that already...

Nazi pedo OP is having a blast with his multiple sick puppets.

* sock puppets

But sick puppets works too

Wasn't the argument I was making R37

Orban is a fascist wannabe but he is about as popular in Hungary as Trump was in the US. He's got a tight race coming.

Your argument rests on him being a wildly popular leader and he is not.

Same way you can't describe America as a nation of gun-happy, Covid-denying right wingers because of Trump

I had two Hungarian fuck buddies in Vienna. Hungarians are clever and well educated and on the serious side. Very polite. These two didn't know each other but were rather similar. Tall, skinny, not athletic, odd faces, humungous giant thick long cocks. One was a fistee bottom and ravenous for sex and fist.

R39 I love the Bade too.

One must exercise caution as a foreign visitor to them, though. I caught a horrific ear/throat infection from one, that got so bad I almost couldn’t fly home and on return I was laid low for weeks afterward (this was early 2018, so not the ‘Roni). My head felt like it was going to explode, my throat swelled and aches so much I could barely talk, I wa sneezing constantly and backed up with mucus, I had violent chillls & fever that sweated through my clothes, my eyes became gummy and sticky enough to cloud my vision. I guess I just hadn’t been in the country long enough to adjust to soaking in pools full of local bacteria, and my body just revolted.

I was unfortunate enough that I had to travel to Budapest and Szeged for 6 years in a row, since my university had some collaboration with universities in those two cities. The country is full of scammers and prostitutes. Bribes were expected everywhere, if you're a Westerner. Or being overcharged at every step.

r44 I'm writing from the real fucking world. Take your white guilt elsewhere and let the grownups talk.

That reminds me of my experiences in Italy, r51. They'll rob you like it's nothing.

That reminds me of my experiences in Italy, [R50]. They'll rob you like it's nothing.

[quote] The only places I have felt safer and happier are Cologne, DE and Antwerp, NL.

That’s an interesting conversation right there. I’ve pottered around endless european cities late at night, but I once got hopelessly lost in central Stockholm one night, and with not a soul round except a smattering of surly looking immigrant youths, and with empty streets of high blank walled stone buildings, I was reduced to a state of cold terror. I’ve only been more afraid in Hobart, Tasmania (white trash shithole) when I found myself chased by a gang of youths for several blocks!

Antwerp is in Belgium, not the Netherlands.

r54 have you ever been in a ghetto area of an American city late at night? Americans would probably laugh at your experiences in Europe.

[quote]That reminds me of my experiences in Italy, [R51]. They'll rob you like it's nothing.

That is NOT the experience of the millions who travel to Italy and return again and again.

I visited Budapest in June, 1989, and again in 1992. It was an incredible change in only three years. Hungary had rapidly embraced freedom and free enterprise.

There is a lot of propaganda out there attacking Hungary. The Hungarian government rightly has stood up against Merkel’s attempt to entice migrants who can not be assimilated to march into Europe, and to populate all of of the EU with them. That and Hungary’s defending itself against Soros are an abomination to the leftist elite in Europe and the U.S. If Hungarian has become more “authoritarian”, it’s a result of the external existential threats, and not because the Hungarian people want it.

[quote] They got a ton of shit for not accepting migrants

You can have one or the other, R41.

Or both simultaneously.

Anyone who uses Soros as a talking point is probably a Q-tard.

[quote] That reminds me of my experiences in Italy, [R51]. They'll rob you like it's nothing.

Italy is the only place in Europe I had something stolen from me. I had become too complacent from being in other countries and had let my guard down. Always be on your guard when in Italy.

[quote]The Hungarian government rightly has stood up against Merkel’s attempt to entice migrants who can not be assimilated to march into Europe, and to populate all of of the EU with them.

True.

And listen to how Macron has changed his tune about Muslim immigration.

[quote] Anyone who uses Soros as a talking point is probably a Q-tard.

Anyone who criticises Hungary while never being there is probably foolish.

The friendliest people I encountered in Prague were two bartenders who were from other countries. Younger people in Budapest were friendly and for the most part spoke English at least conversationally.

It felt distinctly Eastern European to me... especially the train I took from Budapest to Prague, which had to have been in service since the 70s. The train station in Budapest is beautiful but also disgusting and falling apart. Old country vibes for sure.

I want to eat the corn from Kirk Cameron's shit!!!!!

R41 You really can't understand Orbán and his appeal to Hungarians without understanding Hungarian history, the Turkish occupation certainly but also Hapsburg rule, 1848, Trianon, Communist rule and 1956. And yes, Saint Stephen and the Christian tradition.

Orbán's message -- Keep Hungary Hungarian -- holds powerful sway over Hungarians whose history has time and again seen outsiders bring nothing but ruin.

You may disagree with his policies, but he is an exceptionally skilled politician, probably second in skill only to Mrs. Merkel in Europe.

[quote]The men are friendly enough, the women are stone cold bitches

Kind of like Spain?

[quote]Muslims ruled Hungary for 200 years and destroyed the country.

You seem to be referring to the Ottoman Empire at its height (and it was more like a century and a half). They ruled over the eastern part of Hungary (with an allied rump state in Transylvania) and certainly did no more to "destroy" the country than the Austrians did in the western part of Hungary, and subsequently in all of Hungary for the next few centuries, colonizing and depleting it. The Hungarians bore them no more love than they did the Turks, and in fact since they're the more recent villain they have more recent grudges against the Austrians.

R58 is clearly a fascist apologist. Orbán has used overt homophobia, bigoted nationalism, and other rightist ideologies to consolidate power (despite having precarious support in the vote—the system is constitutionally rigged for his party); there's effectively no free press or free judiciary, and less and less free enterprise as Orbán's cronies get first dibs at everything.

r68 read some history or better yet talk to some actual Hungarians. The Ottomans were not friends to the Hungarians. They have about as much love in Hungary as they do the Greeks.

And guess what? They don't miss the Austrians either.

The handsome model at OP's link has done over a [italic]thousand[/italic] porn scenes, mostly with women.

The Vampire of Budapest (pictured) was one of his first films, dome under the name Marko Nagy, but most of his films have been done under the name "Anthony Hardwood."

Any idea how Hungarian compares to Turkish, R29?

In what way R71?

(Not R29, but do you mean in difficulty of learning it or does it have any similarity to Turkish?)

The structure is roughly the same. But people tend to describe learning Turkish in much more gentle terms.

DL fave Mitzi Gaynor is of Hungarian ancestry. She was born Francesca Marlene de Czanyi von Gerber in Chicago.

"We all don't talk like Zsa Zsa," she once told a surprised interviewer (Merv, I believe).

I thought Mitzi Gaynor was dead!

[quote][R68] read some history or better yet talk to some actual Hungarians.

My family is Hungarian. So were the neighbors I mentioned in R29. There have been times in my life when I couldn't get away from Hungarians and their conversation.

[quote]And guess what? They don't miss the Austrians either.

Which is what I said.

R71, there are a lot of similarities between Hungarian and Turkish—which I've only studied superficially, but when I traveled in Turkey and brushed up on it I found I had a leg up in some areas, like the noun endings instead of prepositions, the vowel harmony, and the possessive construction "there-is-not a my-car" for "I don't have a car." I'm surprised linguists don't consider them more closely related. There seem to be a lot of common words, but they come from the Ottoman occupation.

Mitzi Gaynor is surprisingly realist for an actress. I bet she was great company for her gay dancers.

The other great Hungarian is Miklós Rózsa.

He made fascinating sounds— hypnotic, bombastic, psychodelic,

The Gabors had the right idea. From hunger.

[quote] Orbán … … consolidate power

Have you been to Hungary, R68? Have you seen the rivals to Orbán?

One of Orbán's tasks has been to keep righter-than-right Jobbik at bay, and he's done a fair job of it.

R70 - WOW, I had no idea, thanks for the info (not that I'm going to run out and watch him in a bunch of straight movies). I thought he had just done those few for Bjorn and then disappeared.

Read Patrick Fermor's book about walking from Holland to Istanbul in the 1930s. He describes Hungary in romantic terms.

Fermor was a romantic man.

All these posts & no one’s mentioned me & my bros?

All you need to know is that regardless of the large amount of gay porn produced in the country, Hungarians HATE gay people. They are right up there with the Poles, Ukrainians, and the Russians.

Well, I was Queen of Hungary and it wasn't all that. My manic depressive son murdered his mistress in a hunting lodge and then committed suicide. And to get my jam back after that shitshow, I went on a holiday to Switzerland where some anarchist cunt stabbed me to death in Geneva. Fuck Hungary. They don't even remember me there.

I live in a neighboring country and I don't know a single thing about them, apart from having a really weird language.

Hungarians were big-time Nazi sympathizers and collaborators.

R89 Who gives a fuck? That was 80 years ago, give it a rest.

[quote] Are the people friendly (seeing that you'll never be able to communicate with them, unless they speak English)?

What if we both speak German?

[quote] Who are some famous Hungarians that a DL'er should know, other than the Gabor sisters?

I think many older DLers also know some of the famous ethnic Hungarians from the neighboring countries like Rumania and Serbia. The gymnast Ecaterina Szabo (real name: Szabo Katalin), who was unfairly beaten by the rancid cunt Mary Lou Rotten at the LA Olympics, is a Hungarian from Romania. Tennis superstar Monica Seles (real name: Szeles Monika) is a Hungarian from Serbia.

R87 can’t believe it took so long for someone to post ELISABETH. It’s my favourite musical, the best one to come out of Europe imo. The scenes with Kronprinz Rudolf literally dancing with Death are moving and sad.

And Sissi is my favourite 20th Century royal. She was such a rebel, and so willing to get her hands dirty.

Comparing Hungary and even Poland to Russia is inaccurate, R86

Tony Curtis (born Bernard Schwartz)

Harry Houdini (born Erik Weisz)

R88 = Austrian.

Funny how idiots like r58 mention Soros seemingly without being aware that he is Hungarian.

r97, everyone already knows that Soros was born in Hungary.

I saw this very interesting and insightful report a while ago. It's about a British young man who's trying to come to grips with his Hungarian father's conservative political thinking. (It's about 25 minutes long.)

[Quote]What makes a person vote for Hungary’s nationalist prime minister, Viktor Orbán? It was a question intensely personal to the Guardian’s John Domokos, whose Hungarian father is a believer in economic nationalism, and supports Orbán.

[Quote]John took a road trip through the country for a Guardian documentary, in the hope of understanding his father’s politics and to try to overcome their differences.

Nicolas Sarkozy, another one with Hungarian roots.

Dull as a Rubik's Cube

[quote] Hungarians were big-time Nazi sympathizers and collaborators.

So were most Europeans--they all became Resistance fighters in 1946.

Hungary was a German ally in WW2 and treated its Jewish citizens badly, but did not turn them over the Germans to send to the concentration camps--it was only after the Hungarians surrendered to the advancing Russians and the Germans invaded to save the oil fields that the SS came in (May 1944) and started deporting Jews to Auschwitz, often over the objections of the Wehrmacht who needed the rail lines and supplies.

That is why the majority of Shoah survivors are Hungarian--the Germans did not have time to kill them all the way they did with the Polish, Russian, Greek and other Jews.

^^Since someone will point it out, the Danes did resist and get the vast majority of Danish Jews on boats to Sweden, thus saving them.

There were, like, five Danish Jews.

Girls. GIRLS! Let's focus this conversation on what matters. Handsome Hungarian men!

R5 - Don't believe that Hungary is defined by Orban. In fact, Hungary is quite welcoming and the Jewish community there is doing better than it is in France, Sweden, Germany, and Britain. Orban's rhetoric is mostly that, and is mostly directed at the EU - and he's not entirely wrong about that. And he isn't a "dictator" - he was soundly elected in a free and fair election.

It is also "multicultural" but not quite in the way that western and northern Europe are - its "tribes" are entirely white. And like other countries in the local "bloc" it occupies a place once occupied by Spain, of which it used to be said, "Europe stops at the Pyrenees", and it wasn't meant as a compliment. But Spain, too, is now far more like other European countries than it is different. You could say of Hungary that "Europe stops at the Carpathians" - it retains something of a gestalt that much of a rapidly homogenising Europe is losing.

It also should be remembered that although Hungary is considered part of Eastern Europe (occasionally it is listed as Central Europe), its language is Finno-Ugric, and not part of the Slavic language group.

This gives Hungary a strange appeal. In cities like Budapest, you will find high levels of sophistication, art museums, and great music - Hungary has a significant musical heritage that influenced, amongst others, Brahms. Dozens of famous musicians and composers emigrated out of Hungary fleeing either Nazi or Soviet occupation.

Budapest was once called the Paris of the East. It has a great deal of very beautiful architecture - and a great deal of very ugly architecture that is the detritus of decades of Soviet occupation. There's no difficulty telling one from the other.

It shares a strange appeal with other countries in the bloc that are unapologetically proud of their cultural heritage, but that doesn't make those places ignorant backwaters, either. As with most countries, the sophistication is highest in the bigger cities.

You need time to do Hungary: see Budapest but get out into the countryside, too - it is gorgeous. And, yes, a bit, er, spooky.

R27 I was under the impression that one third of the studio power-brokers were Jewish-Hungarian money-seekers.

Words do matter, and if you want to remain on good terms with your new Hungarian friends, especially older more traditional types, then put Hungary in Central Europe. "Eastern Europe" makes them sound like Romanians, not a good thing in Hungary (unless of course they're Hungarian Romanians).

Gals, can we get back to the HUNG in Hungary?

R109 - As opposed to the other two-thirds who were WASPs seeking only artistic purity?

Go fuck yourself, you bigoted turd, and infiltrate some other thread.

"Frankly, we were just out to make a buck . . ."

Budapest is a grittier version of Prague.

Come here and I do you in butt! 🍑

Was just reading that Hungary was a big water polo place. The team looks nice and bronzed, no pasty white people in Hungary!

R116: “I want all your cocks!” 😫 🍆 🍆 🍆

I call dibs on the skinny twink with the blond shag, front left.

R114, Pest is comparable to the edgier parts of Prague. Buda is quite different.

Which city has the bigger juicier párizsi?

I will only visit Hungary and spend my hard earned dollars when they "defund the police" and make sure criminals arrested get out on bail within 24 hours. That would show me that this is a country with values.

“Let’s defund the police! And have 73 genders! And let people shit in the street! Anything less is LITERAL VIOLENCE!”

There are no blacks and no Muslims

R123 that would disappoint some people who would make it a point to want to SJW everything!

[quote]Who are some famous Hungarians that a DL'er should know, other than the Gabor sisters?

Mickey Hargitay was born in Budapest.

[quote]Hungarians think of themselves as central Europeans along with Czechs, Germans, Austrians and Swiss-- do not like to be thought of as Eastern Europeans and can be very snobbish about Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians, Serbs, Ukrainians, etc.

Definitely not snobby about Poles - those are their bestest friends, even before the similar right wing governments elected in both countries.

Bela Lugosi duh.

R126, yeah, mentioned at R11.

Hung men are trace their roots to Hungary.

Alexander Korda was another Hungarian.

[Quote]There are no blacks and no Muslims

There's black ones now!

R128 is Bo Sinn who is Quebecois. And somehow Hungarian??

[quote]There are no blacks and no Muslims

There are even Afro-American Hungarians

R132 - Very, very few, and they are mostly the descendants of military liaisons with local women.

As for famous Hungarians: Well, for starters check the classical music catalogues as well as the film composer catalogues - er, Franz Liszt? Bela Bartok? Zoltan Kodaly?

Conductors: Eugene Ormandy, Antal Dorati, George Szell, Fritz Reiner, Georg Solti - these were giants in the classical music canon. Szell, by the way, was known as a terrifying tyrant.

Film - ffs, Emeric Pressburger, Adolph Zukor (founded Paramount Pictures), William Fox who founded Fox Film Company, Michael Curtiz (directed, amongst others, "Casablanca"), composer Miklos Rosza . . .

Tony Curtis was the son of Hungarian Jewish refugees. And there is, of course - Vlad himself, Bela Lugosi (never learned English but delivered all his lines through sound memorisation). Ilona Massey was also Hungarian.

Hollywood was full of them.

Many painters, but probably the best-known in the West: Philip de Laszlo, portraitist who did some of the best-known ones of the young Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, later the Queen Mother.

I saw a 2-season Hungarian series on HBO On Demand called When Shall We Kiss (Társas játék) that was quite charming.

[quote]I won't go because it's being run by a total authoritarian creep at the moment.

Same. Hoping things turn soon.

OP's porn man looks like a blond Kirk Douglas, only much younger (yes, younger than dead), and given to over-application of mortuary make-up.

Summer of my Austro-Hungarian Soldier.

>> I won't go because it's being run by a total authoritarian creep at the moment.

>> Same. Hoping things turn soon

Curious if you both would travel to the US when Trump was president or, if you're American, you'd support people who refused to visit the US then

R133 Among painters, I'd say Vasarely, the leading op artist, is better known.

R138: Re: your second quotation... I'm not avoiding Hungary to make a political point particularly. I am just hopeful that there are happier times ahead for Hungary, and happier times to visit.

I have American and EU citizenship, and was born in the U.S. though I live now in Europe, having moved here during Trump's administration (which wasn't the cause, but a happy coincidence to be away during the worst half of it.) I can understand that some non-U.S. citizens might have had concerns about visiting the U.S. during his term, especially for anything more than a quick and obvious tourist stay. Of all his scapegoats, immigrants and foreigners of any stripe seem to have been his favorites.

In 2019 there were 79.26M international visitors to the U.S., compared to the record of 79.75M in 2018 (and in the mid-to-high-70Millions for the previous five years.) A decline of half a million doesn't go unnoticed, but neither does it suggest a huge international protest movement, a foot stomping of "we'll show that Trump fellow." Instead, I would assume this half-million or some part of them just said "fuck it, it all seems a bit crazy there just now and not improving; we'll take a leisure trip somewhere else and another time maybe." And that's more or less how I feel about visiting Hungary just now (well, whenever it's an easy option.)

[quote] And there is, of course - Vlad himself, Bela Lugosi (never learned English but delivered all his lines through sound memorisation).

Not never, R133--he eventually learned.

R96 Nope. Croatia.

I once knew someone who learned Hungarian as a second language to a very high level, possibly fluency. I still wonder why she did that and if she still finds a use for it.

Arpad Miklos was Hungarian. And a finer piece of gay porn meat there never ever was.

And what a tragedy it was when Arpad Miklos passed!

I'm still waiting to hear about his heart-story.

[quote] Bela Bartok? Zoltan Kodaly?

Some of Bartok is fascinating. All of Kodaly is.

I can hear a definite national sound in their music.

I can hear it too in this Oriental movie by Dusan Radic.

The Paris of the East -- the Rowan Atkinson Maigret series set in post-war Paris was beautifully filmed in Budapest and Szentendre. The atmosphere in those 4 shows was so fantastic I watch them over and over.

The liberal lot of you will be happy to know that Hungarian sculptor Peter Szalay put up a rainbow-hued Black Lives Matter statue in Budapest.

The other lot of you will be happy to know that the statue was defaced and demolished within 24 hours.

See? Hungary has something for everyone.

I'd like to watch the Rowan Atkinson Maigret series for the scenery but his persona repels me.

R146 - It was mostly Russian, Central, and Eastern European composers who shrugged off the chains of German domination of classical music, once Beethoven's heroic romanticism led the way. Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Cui, Bartok, Kodaly, Smetana, Janacek - and began incorporating local folk music and rhythms into their work in the 19th and 20th centuries. I'd include later composers like Stravinsky and Prokofiev, as well. Anyone listening to "Petrouchka" or the "Lieutenant Kije" suite can hear it.

Hungary is next door to what was Bohemia (now the Czech Republic) and Poland, and there was a great deal of intermixing, both through marriage and culture, with both countries.

I agree with your use of the word "magical" re Bartok and Kodaly. I'm unfamiliar with the film and score you mentioned, but will look it up. And I think that is true of much Russian music, as well. It's as if their cultures were somewhat less divorced from their (I can't think of a way to put this) non-Christian past, were still in contact with certain kinds of older beliefs that seeped into their music.

I don't think I put that well. But it was true that local folk music and rhythms were felt to be inferior until people like Brahms, who championed Dvorak's music and produced his own variations on Hungarian dances, defied the purist mentality.

As per the map on this DL post, Hungary has more protections for gay people than the USA

And loads of great housing stock.

Thank you, R93. That was haunting..

Why would not knowing a language prevent people from knowing a country?

My experience. Rude people, always with a gruff. Most unfriendly people I've met, in Budapest at least. All the other foreigners I've met had similar experiences when we visited the country.

Everything is so big in Budapest.

I went to Budapest in 1992. It has hardly begun to wake up from the long period of Soviet control. They were all happy to greet me and show me their city.

And, yes, contending with the language is daunting.

R153 you’re so welcome! I’m always happy to talk and share ELISABETH, it’s such a breathtaking show that in my view everyone should see.

The production that clip is taken from is imo the best one to date. Staged and filmed in 2016, by Japan’s TOHO Company, it stars two of the country’s foremost lights in musical theatre—the legendary Hanafusa Mari (formerly of acting troupe the Takarazuka Revue, from 1991-2006) playing Sisi, and Yu Shirota (formerly of acting troupe the D-BOYS, from 2003-8) playing Der Tod. Rounding out the cast is globally-popular actor and dancer Yuuta Furukawa (best known for his appearances in the anime musical megahit BLACK BUTLER) playing the doomed Kronprinz Rudolf. Worth noting that, until this production, Japan had only staged this show with all-female casts (namely, the Takarazuka Revue) to roaring success, and that it was considered to be a female-interest and female-exclusive musical there.

Moreover, this show has several noticeable differences from the European staging, in particular some of the blocking and character decisions. To take just one example: the Rudolf of the TOHO shows takes a more noticeably-active and overtly-tragic role in his own demise, and up to that point shows a more conflicted curiosity about his erstwhile friend, lover and father figure in Der Tod. The dancing for Rudolf’s death sequence is also quite exquisite in this show, though the hardest emotional hit is still watching him reel back in dawning horror from unfurling a Nazi flag.

Isn’t Der Tod played by Uwe Kroger and Kronprinz Rudolf by Jesper Tyden in your clip?

I’m going to have to find this version to watch. It’s gorgeous.

Two great American musicals -- Carousel and She Loves Me -- were based on Hungarian plays.

[quote] There were, like, five Danish Jews.

Four, after Victor Borge left.

[quote]"We all don't talk like Zsa Zsa," she once told a surprised interviewer (Merv, I believe).

Why would Merv be "surprised"? Mitzi was well-known at the time, and since she was born in the US (unlike the Gabors), why would he think she'd have an accent?

They all call each other dahlink.

r160 He was surprised Mitzi was Hungarian. Mitzi made the joke about not talking like Zsa Zsa.

R157/R153 haha didn’t you notice they are singing in Japanese and not German? And that the players aren’t white?😅

I do love the 2001 German stage; Jesper Tydén in particular is a great Rudolf in it. Totally watch the 2016 TOHO stage, though, I promise you won’t regret it.

^^^let me add: one thing I didn’t love about the 2001 Essen production was how it felt like they tried to make it seem that Death does not give a single damn about Rudolf and is not interested in him except as a disposable pawn, rather than their ambiguous relationship being up for interpretation.

I think Tyden got to do a bit more with his characterisation of Rudolf in the 2003 Vienna revival with the same cast. His counterpoint singing over the rebels in ‘Hass’? Sublime. Also noteworthy is the moment his Rudolf looks longingly at his mother during ‘Wenn ich dein Spiegel wär’, and tries to reach for her hand and throws himself at her feet, prompting Sisi to walks toward him and reach out to him before stopping herself so close to touching his cheek and petting his hair. Little touches and changes like this can make all the difference in the world to the depth and poignancy of a stage interpretation.

Now the slightly more on-topic question—which Budapest stage of ELISABETH DAS MUSICAL was the best; between the famous 1992, 2000, 2001, 2004, and 2007 productions? Idk why this is, but in the suicide-kiss sequence the Budapest Rudolfs always seem to be shirtless (this doesn’t happen in any other national production afaik)