Do you believe in the power of prayer?

Sure, why not? Just because I’m gay doesn’t mean I can’t have faith. Not the same thing as being a pretentious, oppressive religious zealot.

I think it's listening to a higher consciousness that every has inside them.

I'm 41 and throughout most of my life I had laughed at and made fun of religious people. But then 4 years ago, I had some sort of epiphany. I have struggled with depression for most of my adult life and have been hospitalized several times. But in 2017, I decided to stop feeling sorry for myself and count my blessings. I also began talking to a higher power, whoever that might be. Whenever I need guidance, I just talk/pray to 'whoever' and it has helped me to clear my mind and have peace of mind. I know it sounds corny, but prayer and counting my blessings has been very helpful to me.

No.

Prayer: How to do nothing, and still feel like you're helping.

Prayer is used every day to connect with/reiterate identity, purpose, laws and goals. And to reduce the ego by reminding one that he is nothing more than human.

When people say you're in their payers, or you're on their 'Prayer List'- are they just virtue-signalling? You'd be on your knees for an hour trying to pray for so many strangers.

I believe that prayer helps to the extent that a person humbles themselves, gets down on their knees (at least figuratively), admits they don't have the answers, and asks for help. There have been times in my life where I felt lost with nowhere to go and have asked the universe for help.

At that point, you truly open yourself up to possibilities and start seeing things in a different way.

Oh, [italic]absolutely[/italic].

A breezy and fantastic book on prayer for the non-religious by Anne Lamott: [italic]Help, Thanks, Wow: The Three Essential Prayers[/italic]

Most people turn prayer into something like a wish list for Santa.

I believe in the power of positive energy. Maybe it's similar.

i agree with r11. i think that when you wish and believe in something, and to spend time putting it out into the Universe that you desire this, it sets you up for it to happen for you. And i'm not at all religious. I wish i spent more time appealing to the Universe for (meaningful) things i want in my life.

Keep in mind that God is not a wish granting machine. Prayer is communing with God.

Yep it really works. Look at the utopia we're all living in.

It's suspension of the know it all syndrome and acceptance of reason and the universe

[quote]I just talk/pray to 'whoever'

[quote]I wish i spent more time appealing to the Universe

[quote]I felt lost with nowhere to go and have asked the universe for help

It is really that hard to admit to yourself that God is God and to pray to him directly? It would be a lot more effective.

R14 You expect this, where everything dies and rots, to reach utopic levels? Ha. You’re in hell, dear, no doubt paying your share of karmic debt like the rest of us. The fact that you can still experience [italic]any[/italic] measure of beauty and happiness in hell is a testament to the Creator’s boundless love, mercy, and generosity.

If you’re going to continue carrying on with that attitude, you’d better buckle up, toots!

Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool!

- Mark Twain

[quote]R13 Keep in mind that God is not a wish granting machine. Prayer is communing with God.

If gods do exist, you’re rather presumptuous to speak for them!

Certainly they could grant wishes - they’re magical beings!

The best time of my life, when I was most accomplished, was when I prayed every night before bed: around middle school and high school. When I stopped praying, it went downhill, perhaps (probably) coincidentally. But I'm going to start praying every night again.

I’m curious what r20 prayed for/about.

People always talk about the "power of prayer."

Personally, I have NEVER felt anything supernatural in my entire life.

Nothing.

I've only seen what my eyes have seen, and I've only experienced a human existence.

I have never felt a heavenly presence, or anything to suggest that something beyond this horrible human existence, actually exists.

For me - and only me - my life has always and only ever been... human.

R21, I would say "Bless [my family members], please let me do well in school, please help the world (or something like that)" - I don't remember everything but it was a list of things. Then I would say something like "1, 2, 3, 4." four times. I was a kid.

Pray in one hand and shit in the other and see which fills up first. I’m just kidding. Lots of thoughtful replies on this thread. Prayer probably has a calming meditative effect for many, but a Santa Claus list of material wants is not going to do anything in and of itself.

I find I rather hypocritical that so many people declare themselves nonbelievers, but when there's a crisis in their lives, they're always the first ones praying and plea bargaining with God to come to their aid.

And you know damn well they'll never keep those promises they made.

I have written this in response to another thread, but worth repeating:

I had a very wise history professor in college. Among his other research interests was the history of magic in the Middle Ages.

During one of his lectures, he asked the class, "Why did medieval people practice magic, and study it as a serious subject, when -- clearly -- magic is not empirical, and it doesn't work?"

A student raised her hand and replied, "Well, why do people pray? That doesn't work either."

The professor -- a self-confessed atheist -- paused for a moment. And then he replied (paraphrasing), "My mother was a single mother during the Great Depression, raising five boys by herself. I'm not so sure prayer doesn't work."

George Carlin used to say that you could get the same results by praying to the Empire State Building.

IMO, it's better to take one small action towards your goal than pray. Yes, you can do both.

I went to Catholic school, not Catholic, though. Somehow, I became OCD about Hail Marys & Our Fathers. I felt like the day wouldn't go right if I didn't say X amounts of each.

That kind of OCD praying is not that useful.

r28 after many years of not practicing Catholicism -- but having been raised Catholic and attending Catholic schools for 12 years -- I got in a near-accident. And as it was happening, I -- involuntarily almost -- started saying, "HailMaryfullofgrace ...

I believe in G*d but in a agnostic way. I don't believe in a puppet G*d that humans are manipulating through prayer, or not. G*d isn't sending lightning bolts down to zap us and he's not actively managing or not managing people's lives.

People need to believe in a higher power, because it gets them through periods of trials. It calms them.

Whether or not it actually works, is another matter.

Just think of all the people who prayed before their planes crashed, etc.

It accomplished absolutely nothing, except for maybe giving them a sense of calm before they were crushed to a bloody pulp.

Sort of like all the people praying on 9/11, before their aircraft slammed into the World Trade Center, or into that Pennsylvania field, or the Pentagon.

Didn't do them a lot of good, did it?

[quote]It accomplished absolutely nothing, except for maybe giving them a sense of calm before they were crushed to a bloody pulp.

Calm in the face of an immediate and horrific death doesn't really seem like "absolutely nothing" to me r31

People need to disbelieve in a higher power because it makes them feel superior to nature and excuses their urge to live with total, and sometimes toxic, abandon. It also allows them to entertain the silly notion that they are the most intelligent life in existence, which they also think they will be able to, at some point, unlock the secrets to with their puny little minds.

[quote] Calm in the face of an immediate and horrific death doesn't really seem like "absolutely nothing" to me R31

Tell that to the bloody pulp of brains and bloody matter strewn into that little hole in Pennsylvania, R32.

I'm sure it gives them a sense of peace to know that they're bodies were blown into a million little pieces of dog food.

R29, I know what you mean. I'm not even Catholic (I'm atheist), but sometimes I do the sign of the cross. E.g., seeing a crash on the side of the road, etc.

You sound like a truly lovely person, r34

[quote] I'm sure it gives them a sense of peace to know that they're bodies were blown into a million little pieces of dog food.

Oh, and fuck you "Oh, dears."

I meant to type "their bodies." I was just so irritated by R32's post.

The 9/11 victims have been dead for 20 years now.

Blasted into oblivion. Scattered into a million pieces. Disintegrated into powder and dust.

Prayer did absolutely nothing for them.

And on top of that, they've been forgotten by most people.

A lot of good prayer did them.

No. I always tell people I will keep them in my thoughts. The "thoughts and prayers" crowd are merely repeating a trite, meaningless and thoughtless phrase.

Also, Buddha, Moses, and Jesus were all correct.

Prayer has never given me any comfort.

It's like talking to yourself.

And I don't have a lot of comforting things to say to myself.

[quote]R26 The professor -- a self-confessed atheist -- paused for a moment. And then he replied (paraphrasing), "My mother was a single mother during the Great Depression, raising five boys by herself. I'm not so sure prayer doesn't work."

That’s the situation she wanted?

Was she fucking them?

Absolute bunkum!

I was in a hospital about 6 years ago, having what I (and the hospital emergency room folks) believed was a pretty serious heart attack. In the emergency examination room, while the medicos were buzzing around doing this and that to me, I asked myself about the "no atheists in the foxhole" claim, and asked myself if maybe it wasn't time to 'turn to Jesus.' At that moment, I burst out laughing and realized that I had stared death right in the face and that at no time in my life before had Christianity ever seemed more stupid and empty. It turned out that I had a completely different medical issue, and I recovered, and have been free of "God" ever since. It holds nothing for or over me.

R37, I think what R32 means is that, to each of them who prayed and found calm and solace, however illusory, that result helped each of them feel better while they were still alive.

Their nerves and brain were experiencing terror, and once they prayed, they were calmed. While those nerves and brains exist, and are alive, that calm means a lot to them.

It's kind of like making animal slaughter more humane: reducing terror and pain if possible (not that we implement best practices): for each individual, at the end of his/her life, less terror and pain means a lot to that individual. That's the meaning: not having your nerves so activated that you feel terror. It's subjective, individualized, and temporal meaning.

No. There are way too many examples - countless, excruciating examples - that any "power of prayer" is is nonexistent.

R40 This is hell - the densest plane, filled with the beginning of the most excruciating suffering (there are deeper hells within this hell with infinitely more and indescribable suffering) - and you cannot possibly expect to be in hell - for reasons well known to you, I might add (your soul, that is) - and just be able to snap your fingers and summon the Light, especially if you’re still incurring karma.

Humble yourself. You’re the one that has to grow and prove yourself, not the Creator.

Thanks, r44. But r37 et al seems trollish and it's probably not even worth it

I was watching a dateline about some woman whose husband tried to have her killed and she kept saying how after she was shot she "prayed" to our "heavenly father" and he told her to "get up and call police" and all I thought was " bitch that's common sense kicking in", nothing else.

Why does anyone have to "prove" himself, r46? What kind of Creator - other than a malevolent one - sets up its "creations" in such a way?

R48 You’d be surprised.

Again. She'd just been shot. Maybe that prayer gave her some sort of fortitude in what was obviously a very horrific moment r48

Patronizing, smug atheists grate.

R46 seems like a real religious nutter.

The only TROLL here, is the RIGHT WING RELIGIOUS TROLL at R47.

This is a GAY SITE, motherfucker.

If you want to preach and proselytize, take it to some churchy site, and NOT Datalounge.

You fucking right-wing fundie FREAK!!!!!

You don't belong here, assshole!!!!

R49 Chiiile. Read Job.

Also, to take a page from Buddhism, do you know how many lives you have lived and what you have done in them? Are you even fully aware of what you’ve done and are responsible for in [italic]this[/italic] life?

Dear R44.

All that prayer did absolutely NOTHING for them in the end.

They're still DEAD.

I don’t really pray, I just say the troll who’s controlling this simulation is laughing and laughing and laughing.

This one's for you, R56.

R55, it meant nothing for you or the world at large, but it meant lot for them. You haven't experienced true terror, perhaps. If you did, you'd know that relief from terror means a lot to someone who's experienced terror.

I think you think "meaning" means "lasting impact on the world", but that's not what I mean. Again: subjective, temporal meaning.

R56 That makes you feel better, doesn’t it? It sort of lets you off the hook in terms of having to care about, well, anything, while making you feel superior to “the troll who’s controlling this simulation.”

I’m not knocking you, just taking a wild guess.

r58, you're casting your pearls before swine by arguing with a troll who's outed herself on this thread

Got it, r60. Thanks.

Pray the gay away!

[quote] it meant nothing for you or the world at large, but it meant lot for them. You haven't experienced true terror, perhaps. If you did, you'd know that relief from terror means a lot to someone who's experienced terror.

Lol at R58.

I "pray" that R58 boards a plane that eventually crashes into a tall building at 600 mph.

Then we'll see how much "comfort" you receive from your little prayer.

You are imposing your own belief on to what those people actually felt. And I guarantee that it was not "calm" as you claim, but SHEER MOTHERFUCKING TERROR, as the World Trade Center got closer and closer and closer at the speed of sound, and they saw the aircraft in front of their faces build into a ball of flame and heat, eventually burning them to a crisp.

Or do you think perhaps the people who had to jump from the 100th floor of the burning World Trade Center felt comfort, as their bodies plummeted thousands of feet to the ground, only to explode in a horrific impact, scattering pieces of their former selves into tiny bits all over the sidewalk.

Did their prayers help THEM? Yeah, not so much.

Girls, girls, you’re both heathens!

[quote]I believe in G*d

Apparently asterisks, too.

Based on the poll results, DL is not quite the ninth circle I thought it was. It’s [italic]close[/italic], but there is light here.

[quote]It sort of lets you off the hook in terms of having to care about, well, anything

Completely false. But you can believe whatever you’d like.

No. I don't believe in a personal supreme being.

This what I believe “God” is. I don’t believe this is that far off.

That didn't answer my question, r54. It's a very basic, simple one. What kind of creator sets up its own creations to suffer?

I used to work with some evangelical-type Christians. There had been a plane crash in our town. The pilot knew he was about to crash and diverted to a less-populated part of the city. Everybody in the plane died in the fiery crash, but no civilians on the street died.

One coworker said: "God is good! The pilot avoided people on the street!" Another coworker (Christian) said, "Yeah, but why did God make the plane crash in the first place?"

I was surprised to hear that question asked b/c some people always attribute good events to God's providence but don't attribute bad events to God.

I find it patronizing when some holy roller says someone had god on their side while the other poor slobs were killed as if the survivor was more special.

Prayer: total virtual signaling

Dammit. Virtue.

Religion’s toxicity killed prayer.

Mitochondria are the powerhouse of the cell.

[quote] Mitochondria are the powerhouse of the cell.

Wrong. It's Midichlorians.

[quote]All that prayer did absolutely NOTHING for them in the end. They're still DEAD.

Has someone led you to believe that people who pray think they'll live forever?

Isn’t that kind of the whole basis for Christianity, r79?

Not in the sense that R55 meant.

Well, it never helped me win the State Lottery. Or with anything else in my life as far as I can tell. So, no. I’m not superstitious about it.

Thoughts and prayers

- NRA

Religion is considered true by common people, false by the wise and useful by the rulers.

- Seneca the younger 4 BC - 65 AD

Most organized religions are used as a form of control over the masses.

^^^ They know how to stoke and exploit guilt feelings to control large, vulnerable groups.

[quote] Most organized religions are used as a form of control over the masses.

Opium of the people.

This was noted thousands of years ago.

R70 I can’t answer that question, my love; just as surely as you can’t answer my question: Where did we and this all, including the “Big Bang,” come from?

I’ll leave you with one of my favorite passages by Howard Thurman:

“This is the way the rhythm moves. The fall of the year comes, then winter with its trees stripped of leaf and bud; cold winds ruthless in bitterness and sting. One day there is sleet and ice; in the silence of the nighttime the snow falls soundlessly - all this until at last the cold seems endless and all there is seems to be shadowy and foreboding. The earth is weary and heavy. Then something stirs - a strange new vitality pulses through everything. One can feel the pressure of some vast energy pushing, always pushing through dead branches, slumbering roots - life surges everywhere within and without. Spring has come. The day usurps the night view.

Is there any wonder that deeper than idea and concept is the insistent conviction that the night can never stay, that winter is ever moving toward the spring? Thus, when a man sees the lights go out one by one, when he sees the end of his days marked by death - his death - he [italic]senses[/italic], rather than knows, that even the night into which he is entering will be followed by day.”

I have a cocktail of prayer and meditation that I practice every morning. I believe that an energy is created between God and me when I'm just sitting and being - not asking for anything, not repeating standard prayers - just being. I use a couple of different apps that are great. I actually look forward to getting out of bed and doing it every day. So yes, prayer has been powerful for me.

stupid hogwash @ R88

R90 And that is how and what you will live: stupid hogwash.

Yes, but on balance, there has been too much evil in this world in the name of religion to consider it a force for good overall. I understand that sometimes when religion gives comfort or community, or does charity to those in need, or helps some people to behave better it can serve a purpose. It’s just that the other side of the coin can be really horrific.

Don't you have an Oprah show to watch R91?

R93 No, dear, I’m just trying to follow your clunky “rhythm.”

More tears are shed over answered prayers than over unanswered prayers

[quote] I have a cocktail of prayer and meditation

To go along with your drug cocktail?

No. I'm an atheist and think that people who need to pray to a non-existent "god" are simply weak people who feel like they need an imaginary friend to "protect" them.

Buck up and take care of yourselves. No one is coming to save you.

Wow -- it feels good to say all that, even if it's only to my fellow DLers. I swear, in this day and age, it's easier to be gay and out than it is to be an "out" atheist.

Yes. You have a Heavenly Father who loves you. Prayers are answered.

Oh, look.

I found a photo of R98.

Oh, look!

R98 again.

No man has ever created life, including some made up god. IF there was a god or gods, they would most certainly be female.

That being said, when someone tells me they will pray for me, I tell them not to. What a dumb thing to say and it reeks of superiority. You cannot possibly believe you that special that are communing with an all powerful being. If you feel that you are, you are in need of some mental health intervention.

Nothing fails like prayer.

Anyone who believes in the "power of prayer" is mentally deficient. [bold]Fact.[/bold]

Or very closed off from reality.

There’s nothing that reveals a fool more quickly than unbridled, bitter pride.

Prayer?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Absolutely. I prayed that God would bring me a Cuban boy and he did.

[quote]R88 “Thus, when a man sees the lights go out one by one, when he sees the end of his days marked by death - his death - he senses, rather than knows, that even the night into which he is entering will be followed by day.”

Yeah, well, mankind “sensed” the earth was flat at one time, too.

Good luck with that.

R107 Yeah, well, good look with what I am assuming is your alternative view: utter darkness.

You won’t be able to perceive darkness after you’re gone, R108.

Why is that so frightening to you?

R99

I WISH I looked that good. But since you asked, let me give you a hint: most people quit too early with prayer. You have to persist AND you have to try to be a good person and do what the Word says.

Then you'll see miracles. But so many people do not even try.

R109 Where did I write that it is “so frightening” to me?

I believe in the power of belief and the ability of the human mind to affect one's person and environment, in ways that we don't fully understand. That ability can be harnessed and directed, often subconsciously, through prayer and other ways. That doesn't mean we can prevent death, any more than praying to God would, but it can help us enrich our lives.

[quote] r11 Where did I write that it is “so frightening” to me?

Clearly you’re very frightened, as you’re in denial about the senses ceasing after the brain shuts down. That’s why you run to this wish fulfillment fantasy that there’s a never ending wonderland on some Other Side after you die.

I believe in the power of quiet self reflection

If people need to add a sky fairy to the process, that’s their business

^^ for r111

Prayer Lesson 1

Prayer Lesson 2

Life After Death =

Elemental sprits, sprites & leprechauns =

Haunted houses =

When you have absolutely no power to affect an outcome, you pray to pretend you do.

We know Davida has arrived when the thread gets spammed with bullshit youtube videos of supernatural shit. She doesn't seem to realize that these are bs and anyone can put their crap on it.

Prayer is masturbation, nothing more.

just a thought...

Hell yeah!

You people are clueless.

R126 Cult headed shit.

We are raised to believe that we are powerless and there is an external higher power, and we need to establish a connection through prayer, elaborate rituals, presenting offerings or sacrifices. Our Society deliberately convinces people to not trust themselves and look for external conditions to make them feel better to be easy prey for all the snake oil salesmen out there selling us mental and physical junk.

But the truth is that we are powerful beings with an established internal connection to some greater power. When we feel negative emotions we are "cut off" from said higher power, but when we feel positive emotions we are connected.

R127 has clearly shown his/her absolute stupidity.

I have neither said whether I'm pro-prayer or against prayer. All I said is, "you're clueless."

And yet this foolish creature lets loose a rant about being a "cult headed shit."

Proof that people here truly are clueless.

They just unload a ton of SHIT and judgment, without any context or reference.

The mark of a true idiot.

Dorothy Gale from Kansas taught me the power has been inside me all along. No need to believe in fake external Gods.

R129 God can smell your dripping cunt.

God will smite you, R131.

And you'll deserve it.

You're a filthy fucking festering cunt, dripping with PUS.

R132 Gods little bitch.

Religious morons. Two thousand years of Christian shit. What a waste.

R132 I just love imaginary characters!

[quote] Clearly you’re very frightened, as you’re in denial about the senses ceasing after the brain shuts down. That’s why you run to this wish fulfillment fantasy that there’s a never ending wonderland on some Other Side after you die.

R113 Clearly, you [italic]need[/italic] me - and people like me - to feel "very frightened” in order to substantiate your silly little hubris. Your [italic]opinion[/italic] would be less dismissible if it weren't so flippantly arrogant and dismissive. Furthermore, when did I ever claim that the physical senses - touch, sight, hearing, smell, and taste - continue after the brain shuts down, or that I consider prayer "wish fulfillment"? It seems to me that you have worked yourself up into an assumptive frenzy fueled by an extremely crass and limited understanding of possibility, probability, and science, dear.

People like you both amuse and irritate me. Science, which is what those of your ilk insist on citing to disclaim the existence of a higher power or of other dimensions, is precisely based on [italic]discovering[/italic] the unknown and unseen. How many times has science proven - and continues to prove - the existence of things and phenomena that were once inconceivable or believed not to exist? How ironic that many of you feel the need to claim, "I can't see, feel, or perceive a higher power or other dimensions, so a higher power and other dimensions don't exist! Oh, and you're scared and stupid for thinking so!" How wise and enlightening of you. Can you even handle or understand quantum physics?

Finally, I will say this: I am inquisitive and filled with wonder and a good dose of humility, which allows me to realize and accept that I do not know everything, nor will I ever. I also have my own very real and lived experiences to inform what I believe and do not believe, about which you know nothing. In either case, please do continue to fumble and trip in the darkness of your own self-assured doubt and uncertainty, which probably fuel your life, personality, and own existential fear more than you even know or would dare to admit.

R114 I totally respect that.

Why do mentally retarded religious nuts invade DL? Fuck off cunts, we don't want your SHIT.

R138 Prayer isn’t exclusive to religion.

There is no magic. Just stupid people.

Jesus H Christ on a bike, people that believe in magical beings really need to remember that independent thought exists, and control of the population with mumbo jumbo and instilled reverence in faith is not required, nor relevant, in an enlightened age.

Religious people will stop at nothing because nothing is all they have.

Religious organizations are parasites. They use people. They are the worst. Stay far away.

I find the whole prayer for positivity thing embarrassing, it's like writing a list to Santa Claus, hoping he'll bring you the present that you so desperately wanted. When somebody else is actually going to be doing the leg work to get you that gift.

Fervent deniers of prayer - or of anything that doesn’t fit into their carefully constructed boxes of “reality” - remind me of flat-Earthers.

[quote] Fervent deniers of prayer - or of anything that doesn’t fit into their carefully constructed boxes of “reality” - remind me of flat-Earthers.

You are stupid and ridiculous, R145.

The Earth has been PROVEN to be a globe.

Prayer has NOT been proven.

Yet another example of your fraudulent "facts."

R145 The word REALITY in quotes. Now I've seen everything.

Do you believe that a god created everything in the world and that he/she is omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent?

Evil exists.

Therefore, that same god created Evil which means he/she is none of those qualities above. This is the philosophical conundrum of "The Problem of Evil."

Also, this question, "Is god so powerful that he/she could create a rock so big that even they could not lift it?" If your answer is yes, then god is not powerful. If no, same answer.

Oh for fuck's sake.

I pray that religion dies a slow and painful death in a grease fire.

We need to stop living according to nonsense written by primitive people who had little understanding of much of anything.

The title says "power of prayer". Not religion, not faith just prayer. Most people think prayer is asking God to give them things they want and when they don't get those things they blame God and give up on prayer.

Just to add

Prayer is talking to God, meditation is listening to God.

How many times do we have to say FUCK PRAYER.

R154 You sound so content!

R155 You sound insane.

Ah, I see this applies to you too, R156.

Clearly, you need me - and people like me - to be "insane” in order to substantiate your silly little hubris. Your opinion would be less dismissible if it weren't so flippantly arrogant and dismissive. Furthermore, when did I ever claim that the physical senses - touch, sight, hearing, smell, and taste - continue after the brain shuts down, or that I consider prayer "wish fulfillment"? It seems to me that you have worked yourself up into an assumptive frenzy fueled by an extremely crass and limited understanding of possibility, probability, and science, dear.

People like you both amuse and irritate me. Science, which is what those of your ilk insist on citing to disclaim the existence of a higher power or of other dimensions, is precisely based on discovering the unknown and unseen. How many times has science proven - and continues to prove - the existence of things and phenomena that were once inconceivable or believed not to exist? How ironic that many of you feel the need to claim, "I can't see, feel, or perceive a higher power or other dimensions, so a higher power and other dimensions don't exist! Oh, and you're scared and stupid for thinking so!" How wise and enlightening of you. Can you even handle or understand quantum physics?

Finally, I will say this: I am inquisitive and filled with wonder and a good dose of humility, which allows me to realize and accept that I do not know everything, nor will I ever. I also have my own very real and lived experiences to inform what I believe and do not believe, about which you know nothing. In either case, please do continue to fumble and trip in the darkness of your own self-assured doubt and uncertainty, which probably fuel your life, personality, and own existential fear more than you even know or would dare to admit.

"People like you." Go fuck yourself God Squad troll.

R157, you sound EXHAUSTING.

I couldn't even make it through your boring post.

R157 Don't you have some children you need to rape?

Fervent deniers of prayer can be so angry and inarticulate.

R158 = case in point

Is it due to past negative experiences with a church or just retardation? Perhaps it’s a combination of both.

Has anyone prayed they don’t wake up the next morning ?

R3 Has the minimal and unassailable answer - not even speculating on imaginal realms, quantum mechanics, unitary consciousness - I pray not to change you. or to change circumstances and events - I pray to change me.

Lol R162.

Debbie Downer, thread killer.

R3 Schizophrenia

R163 So true. Most of the angry and insulting posters in this thread probably can’t even conceive of changing themselves, never mind want or feel the need to change. That’s why they’re so miserable. They spend their lives attacking others with self-projections. It is truly a pity.

R166

So let's pray for them.

Prayer and meditation makes me more compassionate.

What people thinking is god talking to them is just their common sense and intuition.

I grew up in a non-religious house. We weren't particularly anti, but my parents didn't give shit. Apathetic agnostics I guess. We were sent to episcopalian sunday school because they thought it was important to get some basics due to religion's influence on culture. It has helped out in crossword puzzles I must say.

R167 Let’s.

“Apathetic agnostics” are sometimes the [italic]most[/italic] faithful, R169. Their intentions, expectations, and judgements are not cluttered by rigidity, malice, arrogance, and stupidity.

R169 What you say is, of course, true.

But not particularly helpful. No more helpful than someone saying "when people perceive something through common sense or intuition, it's really God talking to them."

What is mind? What is awareness? What is there at the primordial level in humans that generates any of these thoughts? Why are there so many similarities in various traditions over the millennia about these matters? How does science help understand these similarities better? How do longtime meditators radically alter brainwaves at will? What does this alteration accomplish?

Much to contemplate....

That's what I want. Bronze Age wisdom. Now get me some leeches to suck out my bad blood and evil spirits.

R170 was meant for R168.

[quote] What is mind? What is awareness? What is there at the primordial level in humans that generates any of these thoughts? Why are there so many similarities in various traditions over the millennia about these matters? How does science help understand these similarities better? How do longtime meditators radically alter brainwaves at will? What does this alteration accomplish?

[quote]Much to contemplate....

R171 Just ask R172. Their sarcasm aside, they seem to have all of the answers to your questions.

All the answers.

Sounds like a cheap Scientology scam.

Jesus h christ, R171, who cares?

R171 smells like a LV resident

This is such an interesting video - the way it describes how Believers subconsciously invent an image of their personal god in their head that’s basically just a reflection of [italic]themselves.[/italic]

It’s why they feel their god understands and forgives the. Because it IS them.

It'll take you there!

So, if the existence or nonexistence of a higher power or other dimensions can neither be confirmed nor denied, what makes dogmatic atheists’ beliefs any more valid than those of dogmatic theists? (After all, atheism [italic]is[/italic] dogmatic; it upholds science’s limited capabilities and knowledge and inability to prove the existence of a higher power as law. Atheism is also a belief, which proclaims “I [bold]believe[/bold] there is exists no higher power.”)

As for your commentary of the video you posted, R179, the same could probably be said of many atheists: they “subconsciously invent an image of [a] god in their head that’s basically just a reflection of themselves” and that is what they attack and refer to when they proclaim that there exists no higher power above human beings.

Interesting indeed.

Ask "Mother", already out campaigning.

R180, atheism is not a belief. It is the mindset of, "no gods exist because there is no evidence to the contrary." The burden is on the believers to submit evidence and "faith" is not evidence.

But good try.

R182 It’s a belief.

R182 Agnosticism is the rational response to "no evidence"... atheism is taking the perception of no evidence and establishing a belief system around it. No problem with that, but it is a belief system.

Like anti-homos (whose bodies, during tests, show an interest in m2m sex, and are therefore latent, consciously or not) I've always thought atheists have a lot in common with true believers.

Religion=Mental Illness

I suppose it depends on what you are praying for.

Why don't you try it?

As the local vicar once said to me, "in between fellatio and prayer I've been on my knees all week", those poor alter boys did not stand a chance against the power of prayer...

I was always a bit cynical about the whole faith thing. My stepmother, a great lady, isi very religious in a quiet, personal way. Regular prayer and church goer. One e evening she ended up in hospital after a massive heart attack. During the operation, she suffered from a stroke. We were all told to prepare for the worst and found out later that the hospital was fully prepared for her death.

During that evening, a medical miracle occurred and she pulled through - all her vital stopped declining and went back to normal. Now two years later, she is a bit forgetful but in good health again. She credits her belief in God with the miracle, and I think she's right.

I think you should credit the doctors and modern medicine.

From Carl Sagan

——-

[italic][bold]”A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"[/italic][/bold]

Suppose I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

“Show me," you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle--but no dragon.

“Where's the dragon?" you ask.

"Oh, she's right here," I reply, waving vaguely. "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon."

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.

"Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floats in the air."

Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

“Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless."

You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

"Good idea, but she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint won't stick."

And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists?

Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder.

What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.

I believe in the power of prayer over oneself. We have something within us out of our control and as much in need of imprecation as any Zeus or Yahweh. If you want to believe that prayer sways an external, omnipotent deity, good for you, but it at least focuses a person's own inner dialogue.

[italic]Now I understand a prayer can work:

A particular prayer in a particular church

In a particular style with a particular stuff

And for particular problems that aren't particularly tough,

And for particular people, preferably white

And for particular senses, preferably sight

A particular prayer in a particular spot

To a particular version of a particular god

And if you get that right, He just might

Take a break from giving babies malaria

And pop down to your local area

And fix the cataracts of your mum!

The answer is complicated. Is there someone listening to the prayers and answering them? Of fucking course not.

Is it helpful psychologically? Probably.

All that you "believe" is inherent upon where you were born. If you were born in the US, you were likely raised by Christians who believe their god is the only god. If you were born in a Muslim country, you believe in Mohammed. If you were born in India, likely you are Hindu.

See how all of this is silly? You only believe because you were passed down that belief from your parents or your place of birth. If such a belief can be changed simply by location and culture, how can what you believe be true or even the "right" version of a god?

That’s lovely, R191. I love Sagan, who once noted, “we are star stuff,” which is unequivocally true.

I suppose it can be said that we are God stuff, made up of bits, pieces, and particles of that which encompasses the totality of all existence, including the Big Bang and the requisite components preceding it necessary to and for a, well, “big bang.” (If only someone could prove to me - to us all - this Big Bang. If only it could be placed in a jar, splayed under a microscope, or photographed.)

I suppose it’s all perspective, really. In Sagan’s analogy, if the garage’s interior is meant to represent the cosmos and the physical plane, through which the “invisible dragon” i.e., God, is to manifest, be proven, and displayed, then I would say both the woman and Sagan are looking in the wrong place; barking up the wrong tree, if you will.

If the garage’s interior represents the cosmos and the physical plane in general, God is the entire house and beyond: the block, the city, the state, the country, the world - and expanding beyond that - that the garage is nestled in.

Life is a mysteryyy...

R197 It is!