Eldergays: Tell me about Linda Dano

yummy pussy!

Linda and David!

Is this our new P&G thread? I thought she was terrific in the alcoholism storyline.

Linda is lovely.

Thought she died circa 1990

R3 it appears so!

Frank, why is there a log backstage?

I watched the Locher Rooms about Michael Zaslow and the one with Grant A and Beth C.

Sadly, Sherry Springfield had something come up last minute and couldn’t make it. Elizabeth Dennehy (daughter of Brian Dennehy) joined which was a surprise. They shared great stories and, in particular, Kimberley Simms was great. Fiona Hutchison had major technical issues. They all condemned TPTB who wrote him off GL. Holly taking care of him until he died would have been such a powerful story to watch.

The one with Grant and Beth was also good. Both looked amazing. They don’t age. How has no soap scooped BC up? Maybe she won’t relocate to the West coast? Grant looked better than he has in years. He looked like this was filmed in 2000. To have a husband age like that!

Beth C shared the original Beth back from the dead storyline was going to be that Beth got caught up in a cult and they wouldn’t let her go. I’ve never heard that but damn that would have been great.

Grant did comment on Chrystal Chappell. It wasn’t bad but the words he used definitely alluded to a strained working relationship. Beth C smiled big when he was talking about CC which confirms things were tense though it seemed CC and BC got along well.

She was best friends with Jeanne Carmen and Skip E. Lowe.

R8 Oooh! Thanks, I am so behind with those but will definitely catch up on both.

I remember being on a soap message board circa 2004 and a few backstage people had clued that board in to what was happening. CC and Grant were in conflict and CC definitely won that battle - she had Wheeler's ear and, I think, some at the network though Grant was more trouble than he was worth.

When Digest did their Grant Fired article, it talked about the rumors he was difficult, and almost every one of his costars - even perpetual "ray of sunshine" Beth Ehlers - defended him.....except one. Guess who?

Linda Dano is still as popular as ever. She just goes by the name James Charles now. She's taken social media & this gender fluid craze all the way to the bank.

Kris Jenners sister?

[quote] Linda Dano

The inspiration for Pat Stevens, no doubt.

R13. Thanks. Nora Dunn is my favorite all-time SNL cast member.

She was a legend in her century!

I can’t stand Linda Dano. Ugh!!!

Nora Dunn actually PLAYED Linda Dano multiple times on SNL, on their hilarious parody of "Attitudes." It was one of her signature characters.

Tony Winner Reed Birney (House of Cards & Handmaids Tail) plays Obsessed Fan of Felicia Gallant (Linda Dano) - kidnapping her and demanding she wrote a sequel to one of her books (see video below for entire storyline)

Yes a plot straight out of the book "Misery" - Linda Dano would later say, while she wasn't a fan of this storyline. she said Reed Birney was one of her favorite actors to work with on Another World.

Linda Dano should have come to GL as an Alexandra Spaulding recast

When is Alan Locher going to interview Eileen Fulton?

R20 never

Why won’t Eileen speak to Alan?

There was some porn actress from the 80s I’d see on NYC cable access who looked very much like her, but with bad teeth.

For a while I thought they were the same person.

Who? Sorry, I don't know her.

She played Angie, the daughter in The Montefuscos, which was a very short-lived sitcom on NBC in 1975. It was cancelled after three episodes.

Beth Chamberlin said they changed Beth’s back from the dead story rather quickly from her being trapped in a cult to what was eventually written. I wonder if the whole Dana/ Art dealer guy was going to be a part of that cult story? AuntLiz, or anybody more knowledgeable care to way in on this?

I'm one of the old P&Gers but I have to say, this is the very first I've ever heard of the cult storyline.

I know that the actress who played Dana somewhat resembled Beth C. Before we ever saw Beth C they had a story where several people thought Dana looked like Beth, and there was some sort of plot where someone tried to capitalize on it. I thought somehow that they were trying to test the waters for a Beth return, but I didn't ever hear about the cult story.

Beth said they story change was in August of 1989 and her first appearance being two months later. The Dana story, from what I remember, did have some weird vibes to it. She seemed scared of the Art dealer so I can see that was the beginning of a cult storyline. I need better memories than mine. There was always the heavy implication Beth was involved/coming back. At one point, they said they had Beth and wanted money. I think this is when it changed because Dana was afraid/acted strange around people and esp the Art dealer. Suddenly, they were a couple IIRC. All the characters were involved in that story even Sonni, Roger, Bradley came back.

Why hasn’t anyone discussed Margaret McLarty on the Locher Room?

Was she portrayed as a straight woman or did those producers insinuate?

(Obviously have never watched)

In soaps, the world was her oyster. Until she started covering her body with all those tacky tattoos.

Seventeen-year old runaway, Dana Jones was first introduced to Dr. Rick Bauer, on July 21, 1989 at Cedars Hospital. Dana had run away to Springfield from her parents' home, in nearby Clayton, after she starting dating an older man named, Bruce Daly. Unfortunately, Bruce wasn't as good of a man as Dana thought and after Bruce was arrested for drug dealing, Dana found herself pregnant. At this point, Dana decided to get an abortion. Although Rick was not Dana's doctor, he was opposed to the concept of abortion and tried to counsel Dana about alternative options. As fate would have it, Dana soon miscarried the child, making the need or want for an abortion moot.

Meanwhile, Rick thought that Dana looked remarkably like a friend of his from his high school named Beth Raines who had apparently been killed a few years earlier. Meanwhile, Dana's boyfriend, Bruce, had showed a picture of Dana to his prison cellmate, Alan Spaulding. Alan also saw the same thing as Rick Bauer saw: how much Dana looked like Beth Raines. Alan decided to hire Bruce, and by extension, Dana, to set up his son Phillip. After Bruce's sentence was up, he returned to town and quickly reunited with Dana. Meanwhile, Alan had the sleazy Bruce send Phillip anonymous ransom notes demanding a million dollars for Beth's release. Phillip convinced his younger brother, Alan-Michael, to give up his inheritance to pay the ransom. Alan's original plan was for Bruce to bring Dana along with him at a drop off point at Stoney Lake and meet Phillip and Rick there. Then Phillip would hand Bruce the $1 million dollars and Bruce and Alan would share the money as. However, Bruce started to become convinced that Alan wasn't going to live up to his end of the deal and share the $1 million dollars.

When Roger Thorpe paid Bruce to pretend to be an F.B.I. agent and get a hold of the $1 million dollars instead, Bruce agreed. The only thing Bruce had to do, after being paid off by Roger, in this new scenario of Roger's was to leave Springfield for good. Later, at the drop off point, Rick was shocked when the woman who Phillip thought would be the very much alive, Beth turned out to be none other than Dana! Bruce had apparently convinced (or coerced Dana to go along with the scam) and Phillip really did believe that Dana was Beth! Rick tried to get his best friend to see that Dana wasn't Beth, but Phillip refused to listen and went ahead and left the money for Bruce. In the end, Bruce fled town and Roger ended up with the money.

In the middle of all this was Dana, who felt like she had been used. Despite her role in the scam, Rick felt sorry for Dana and offered her a place to stay. He also helped her overcome her drug dependency. Dana, of course, was grateful and even celebrated her first full month of being free by letting Rick take her out on a night on the town. However, Dana didn't really have feelings for Rick and kept on putting off becoming more seriously involved with him. Meanwhile, Rick did something else for Dana: he asked his former stepmother, Holly Norris Bauer Thorpe Lindsay, now part owner and manager of WSPR to hire her as an intern. Although reluctant at first, when Dana handled herself well during a crises in the control booth at the taping of WSPR's prized the talk show, "One on One" starring Rick's cousin, Johnny Bauer, Holly decided that Dana would be perfect and hired her as an intern in the control booth.

At the same time, Frank Cooper also continued to develop an interest in Dana and Dana was starting to feel the same way. Unfortunately Rick was still pining after her so Dana needed to find away to discourage Rick. To do this, Dana made a pass at Rusty Shayne in front of Rick. Now, Dana was free to develop a relationship with Frank, and even ended up moving into Frank's garage apartment with him.

Dana, you HUSSY!

Wish I had info to share about this, but the very first I ever head of a proposed cult storyline on GL was when Beth C mentioned it in that Locher Room session.

A decade earlier, Edge of Night had a great cult storyline underway with cult leader Elliot Dorn (played by Lee Godart, who went on to play Kent Bogard on AMC). However, as this storyline was playing out on Edge, real life intervened. In Nov. 1978, there was a mass suicide of 909 people in Guyana in South America. It was all tied to the People's Temple cult lead by Jim Jones. The People's Temple had been based in San Francisco but abruptly moved to Guyana to escape a federal investigation. Most of the people who drank the cyanide Kool-Aid were Americans.

Anyway with tragedy playing out on the news nightly, ABC and P&G gave Edge three weeks to end that cult storyline in late 1978. Edge wrote out the cult storyline, but kept the Eliot Dorn character, transforming him from a charming cult leader to a charming scoundrel who got involved with Raven.

As far as I recall, that was that last cult storyline on soaps until GH did the Dawn of Day storyline last year with its charasmatic leader Shiloh. That storyline was also cut short, but this time by negative audience feedback.

The only character, along with Skye, to cross over all three ABC soaps.

The Doctors did the Far Wind Cult Storyline in the late 70s.

On another note, I watched a 1980 episode of Search For Tomorrow on Youtube and I noticed that Search used the same music cues as Edge of Night. This made me wonder if all P&G soaps at one time or another shared music cues? I'm fascinated by soap music, so that's why I ask.

Y&R also had a cult story in 1980. I wonder if it was a case of enough time had passed, or the censors just didn't care.

Eileen F is a senile old bat now living in north Carolina. She’ll never be on Miss Locher’s show.

She has crazy eyes.

OLTL did a cult story with Mitch Lawrence, Cassie and Mari Lynn.

I’ve said this before but I’m honestly shocked she’s not more of an icon around here - Felicia Gallant has all the makings of the patron saint of DL.

She was even friends with the midget who dated Rose!

R23, I'm guessing the porn actress you saw that reminded you of Linda Dano is Gloria Leonard (RiP).

Is Alan Locher gay? He doesn't ping my gaydar at all.

Whoever took the photo in OP's link needs to put a diffuser on that harsh unflattering flash camera light.

[quote]R41 I'm guessing the porn actress you saw that reminded you of Linda Dano is Gloria Leonard (RiP).

Yes! That’s her!

Thank you : )

Did Connie Ford eat her out?

Someone has an entire blog devoted to the furs the woman wore on AW in the late 80s.

Lots of photos over there.

R17. Nora Dunn and Jan Hooks were perfect together, such great chemistry.

Am I imagining it, or doesn’t this basically look exactly like Linda Dano??

Interesting Faye Dunaway hitches her wagon to Sharon Stone and Audrey Hepburn hitches hers to Julia Roberts. I bet Faye feels like a Hollywood outsider in certain ways.

I haven't thought about her in ages. I am blown away that she is almost 80 years old. Christ, everybody is getting so old.

Does Margaret McLarty have a laptop computer?

I thought I recognized those eyebrows. She could play David Ferrie if a sequel was ever made to 'JFK'!

Has anyone seen Linda Dano’s face? It’s missing.

Wie auch immer....

Who will be the next hammy has-been to take on the role of Vivian? Will Slezak give her the RADA touch? "I would never bury anyone alive ATALL." How about Lady Eyes A Buggin? "Where's the grave you ever dug?" So who will it be?

Serving 80s REALNESS!

Maisie used to eat out Felicia. It was common knowledge.

The contradiction that exists when your niece runs a store called Fashions....

......yet fashion is not an accurate description for someone wearing something that looks like clearance sale upholstery material.....

Book 'em, Dano!

I've said it before, but I have a soft spot for Linda. I always imagined she'd be like your mom's fabulous but slightly insufferable friend. Sort of a Godmommie Mame.

She last made news a few years ago for accusing Kathy Griffin of degrading the Daytime Emmys by swearing.

In the 80s, ATWT just seemed so old. I just seemed to be full of older people. I wasn’t particularly intrigued by any of them except Lucinda. Even when they brought on the younger set, it still seemed old. Maybe it was the farm. Out of all the shows, I still enjoyed it the most after GL and Y&R. GL seemed young and fresh. It seems all the adults were in their 30s or younger except for a few like HB and Henry. I also thought GL was a fun show as well.

I think ATWT in the 1980s under Marland was a much more intelligently written show than GL. GL was a "fun" show under Long/Kobe, but it definitely dropped a number of IQ points after Marland's memorable period. Having said that, I also found the tone of ATWT so cold and distant, almost antiseptic. It was the embodiment of midwest WASPiness IMO. You know that Nancy Hughes's cookbook collection was filled with casserole and jello mold recipes. GL was always a much warmer show. Has anyone seen the Papa Bauer funeral episode on Youtube from the early 70s? To me, that episode is what GL was about at its core. Nothing could top "Bauer Power"!

R63 Yes, GL had it intelligent stories but it became a bit more “GH” than P&G. Just a bit. But it was enough. Sadly, GL went off the cliff in 1986. Long rescued it in late 1987 thankfully. Still, GL was definitely warmer and a lot more fun. That Galahad gang shit was daft as shit but it was fun with great characters. Reva was like nothing on daytime. GL had a lot of sparkle until mid-1985.

I worked w her during Super Soap weekends in orlando. Linda Dano is awesome.

R8, I'll never understand GL killing off and writing out Phillip in 2005 or maybe it was 2004.

He'd been on for over 20 years (tho wasn't on the whole time) and fans LOVED him.

He's a GUY; when women slap Phillip, he doesn't twirl his head around, palm his cheek and act all hurt;

he holds his head steady, barely winces and says to the women: "I'm sorry you're upset; now may not be the time to deal with this."

Thus making his leading lady work harder, making a better scene, less predictable.

Everyone says they love the Rick/Phillip friendship frankly, I think sleeping with each other's girlfriends and wives: Mindy, Blake, Meredith, Beth -- was a funny way to deal with their feelings for one another.

I preferred the Phillip/Alan Michael relationship; Phillip was trying to protect AM from the mistakes he made with Alan; one time AM says to Phillip: "You want to be my daddy"

I'm not sure they could get stuff on the air like that today..

anywho, losing Grant lit the fuse for the end of the show; I'm just glad Phillip came back for the last six months.

I thought this was a deep fake of G Max after she gets out of prison

R66 The reasons for Grant's departure were complex.

When Ellen Wheeler became EP in 2004, the show was dealing with a year of John Conboy and Ellen Weston, which had not only destroyed the work Millee Taggart did, but dug an even deeper hole for the show creatively. AND to make matters worse, the show was way over budget. Wheeler was initially tasked with hacking the cast down, which she did not want to do.

At the same time, Grant was often complaining about story, sometimes vocally, and with good reason. As others have said in his defense, he wanted to do good work and some of the story written just made him look dumb.

Apparently it all came to a head when he really pushed back against a very stupid storyline where....let me see if I can remember this correctly....Harley was pretending to be someone else to work for Phillip and spy on him (this was after they broke up). He complained that even a small child would recognize Harley in that disguise (if I remember right they had Phillip have some accident that temporarily blurred his vision, then).

I don't know if it was CBS brass or P&G, but the firing came down from them shortly after. Their hope was by firing him, they could fake kill him off, then bring him back in a few months, suitably chastened as well as at a lower salary.

It totally didn't work. Oopsie!

Linda Dano fucking rocked those crazy 80s fashions like no one else!

SO 80s! She really knew how to work it in that decade.

anyway.....

Oh fuck it's a soap thread! Yikes!

She really owned those 80s fashions. I only knew of her from Attitudes and the hilarious Nora Dunn parody on SNL.

R68, thanks for intel;

I actually tuned into AMC more when Grant joined; he's that good.

A few thoughts: it wasn't Grant's fault that Conboy and Weston wrote such crap; want to get an actor to stop bitching about shitty story?

Stop writing shitty stories.

They should have given Pam Long the WORLD to come back. Whatever she wanted.

GL wasn't just canceled; it was murdered. Look at what Doug did to help turn around ATWT in the mid 80s; he fortified the Hughes family, created young love stories and added mysteries, but most of all he played a sense of family and highlighted veterans.

GL was doing the opposite in the mid 2000s. Losing Phillip; the Bauers were decimated.

Marj and Ron are lovely lovely people but they were no McKinsey and Bernau. SOMEONE in charge needed to step up and fortify the familiar families and tells compelling stories.

They could have written Phillip off, but have kept Grant on contract; offer him directing opportunities; anything.

Here are a few stories that would have been better than having Harley dress up as a quirky character and having Phillip pretend to be stupid. 1) One of Phillip's wives never fully divorced him; he's still legally wed to her; my choice? India. 2) age James and re-tell Alan's wanting to control his son's life with Phillip and James 3) a romance with Holly; they had nice chemistry

ANYTHING rather than kill him off

And btw, Brian Gaskill as Dylan? Ug.

The network exec was determined to rehire her ABC cronies.

Sorry, not sorry, I LOVED these shows; and it was sad to see both ATWt and GL go.

The poster mentioning Super Soap Weekend makes me wonder: did anyone ever attend a soap star's personal appearance BITD? What was it like?

Phillip and Harley never made any sense to me. In fact, the entire Harley thing got lost on me. It was like she was Reva, Jr.

Grant was fantastic on AMC; he and Gloria were HOT and he and Arlene were a hoot! They tied him into the Frye family by making him Jamal’s father. I wish he’d gone back to AMC.

I never watched that soap back in the day, but I remember flicking past it and admiring her tinkertoy-sized jewelry.

Whenever I head singer Anita Baker playing on an oldies station, I automatically think of Felicia Gallant.

The reason? For a good year or more following the 1986 debut of the Tops restaurant/nightclub set, AW played songs from Anita Baker's 1986 breakthrough album Rapture as background music for scenes at Tops.

And of course, Felicia Gallant was the manager of Tops.

Yikes! That should read "Whenever I HEAR Anita Baker . . . "

Have no interested in Heading Anita.

I wonder why she didn't break out of soaps and do regular tv. She was one of the few soap stars who had a fanbase outside of soaps and was known to the general public.

[quote] Nora Dunn is my favorite all-time SNL cast member.

Oh dear.

It's a shame Jan Hooks drank herself to death instead of r82. That cancerous nodule would've been much better on his throat instead of poor Jan's.

Is Jan Hooks one of your favorite all-time SNL cast members too, r83?

One of the all-time bestest members ever casted on SNL you fucking prisspot grammarian loser.

GL was murdered but it also had ENORMOUS (yes, all caps) bad luck and self-inflicted wounds starting in 1992, maybe as early as 1991 when they had to write off Beth/Philip because of the passing of both of GA’s parents. You lose major actresses and actors in major roles all around the same time, then a series of similar, crazy things, culminating in Zaslow’s ALS diagnosis and death. Then, look at all the future young stars on GL at the same time in late 90s to mid-00s yet they couldn’t capitalize on it.

Treating GA the he was treated all because he outwardly showed his contempt for the direction of the show, something we all felt, was contemptible. Did any major show inflict such damage on itself at the same time it had horrific luck?

[quote]For a good year or more following the 1986 debut of the Tops restaurant/nightclub set, AW played songs from Anita Baker's 1986 breakthrough album Rapture as background music for scenes at Tops

Sometimes I wonder how these shows could afford so much popular music back then. I know the budgets were bigger, but were they that much bigger to afford top 40 songs regularly. That couldn't have been cheap.

Fanny took us away.

R74 you aren't wrong.

Thing is, they had the raw materials to save the show, even at the end.

They had a decent writer in Jill Hurst who actually had grounding in the show's history. But they waited until too late to let her have the reins. Philip's return in 2009 may have had an impact if it had happened, oh, six months earlier. But it played out in February and March and they cancelled GL in April, so clearly that ship had sailed.

But yeah, none of the shows understood who was watching them (and ergo, what stories to tell) or how to organically grow that audience. It was never going to be 80s level viewing but they just did stuff that never attracted younger viewers and chased away all the older ones.

Did Lady Eyes A Buggin resent Dano, who really eclipsed Buggin as the female face of the show in its later years?

Ha!

[quote]Did Lady Eyes A Buggin resent Dano, who really eclipsed Buggin as the female face of the show in its later years?

I think she resented the writing and producing changes more so than any particular actor, even though I get a strong feeling that she didn't like Jensen Buchanan - since they were rarely in scenes together. I think VW cashed her checks and didn't think much about the other actors. She had several properties, could help her sons, and do her sculpting. If AW were still on, VW would still be there cashing her checks.

As for saving GL (or any of the other PG shows), I don't think anyone wanted to save it. PG wanted out. CBS wanted that hour.

Linda played a radio reporter on an episode of Charlie’s Angels who was being stalked by Nicolas Coster.

Kelly Garrett had to impersonate Felicia Gallant and almost got killed in a station wagon by Lionel Lockridge!

She had the best side-cocked hats.

Re: Lady Eyes A Buggin

This very indepth interview really covers any and everything you'd want to know.

[quote]I get a strong feeling that she didn't like Jensen Buchanan - since they were rarely in scenes together.

I beg to differ.

Hiccup!

Wheresh my heli *hiccup* copter?

The time to 'save' something is when it's not threatened. By the time you're scrambling and begging it's too late.

I agree with the person who said the slippery slope downward actually began in the 1990's. They started hiring the Dr. Kevorkian's of daytime either to produce or write (or both) who assaulted the show with newbies and non-sensical plots, chased away the veterans, and spent down the budget to the point where they were shooting in trailer parks at the end just to stay on the air another day.

Maybe if Paul Rauch had been fired when there were first signs of trouble (1998 - Clonegate) instead of letting him last another four years, things would have been different.

I think the other thing is, all the networks because part of big corporations, CBS and Viacom, ABC first with Capital Cities then Disney.

And the people in charge before knew to let them do their thing and be the best at being soaps. After that, they just became another profit/cost center, and it showed.

What was Linda like on ATWT? The idea of Cynthia was interesting-break up boring old Ellen and David. And her daughter Karen was a troublemaker. Why didn’t they ever bring Karen back? She was married to James and John and was Dusty’s guardian. She left when John was flirting with a newly arrived Lucinda Walsh.

Any thoughts on what Pam Long would have brought to the table at AW (or, for a non-P&G show, GH)?

I don't think she would've been a good fit for AW and especially GH. Her tone tends to be warm, light-hearted and and homespun, which is just what GL needed when she first took over. AW worked better with more adult storytelling, and I have a feeling her GH would've been like her godawful SB tenure, trying to turn the show into something it's not. Now I think she would've been a terrific fit at AMC. She idolized Agnes Nixon and you can see bits and pieces of Agnes's trademarks in both her GL and Texas runs. Her writing style would've translated really well over there I think.

At AW, Pam would have likely revisited and/or beefed up the Frames, or created a blue-collar family.

Where is Pam now?

Kim Zimmer IS Pammy Davis!

Pam was getting better. She had flashes of brilliance in her first run on GL. I think some of the duds were due to network interference. GL briefly dethroned GH at #1 due to Beth/Lujack-Reva/Josh. I think they figured more action was needed to keep up. Well, yes and no. I think they lost some crucial cast after the summer of ‘84 which hurt the show.

Her 2nd run had more flashes of brilliance. Sometimes she could get too hokey and there were some dud characters that drug the show down though some of it was also due to poor casting. Betty Rea was really hit or miss during the late 80s for GL.

Pam should have been given the moon to come back for GL in the mid/late 90s or later. Really, it seems it was higher ups who really doomed the P&G shows. Same for AMC and OLTL. The ONLY reason GH hasn’t been canned yet is because of its history and being the only soap left on ABC. Same for DAYS. Ratings are super low.

Stupid discussion. That SON board is a MESS! Bunch of weirdos and pervs there. And you have Dumb Dylan, who posted spoilers for April Sweeps. WTF are April Sweeps? Dumb Dylan is so fucking stupid. Asshole.

Texas existed in the same universe as AW, so I could see her bringing the Marshalls to Bay City. She seemed to be pals with Jerry Lanning and Lisby Larson. Lisby's character Paige had been married to Dennis Carrington, so there's the Cory/Carrington connection right there.

I used to think it would be possible for them to change and evolve and become sustainable again, but reality has set in. Not in America, anyway.

Why didn’t the P&G shows cross pollinate more? Maybe Character A from GL is presumed dead and shows up in Oakdale as an amnesiac. Maybe James Stenbeck leaves Oakdale for Springfield but is pretending to be someone else. He’s still bad, just not acting like James. This way, the characters could be written differently on their new shows without causing conflict with their original shows. When you’re an amnesiac or trying to be someone else, you aren’t being the same person. No writers or fans would get too upset with one show “ruining” their faves on another show. Did that makes sense at all or do I sound like I’m an amnesiac?

Would you bitches watch a show co-headwritten by MAB, McTavish, and Higley.

Soaps are dreadful now. My god. They’re really unwatchable. What a sad state of affairs. The acting has regressed as well. Soaps mainly got a bad rap for having bad actors but now, they earn it.

R112 exactly.

The only one that is even remotely decent is GH. The newish head writers really are not too bad, and a lot less Sonny means a more interesting show.

Blame Vee from SON. He’s in the biz and approves all decisions first.

Did Dano work with DL fave Beverlee Penberthy, or was Bev gone by the time Dano arrived? I can see them having terrific friendship chemistry.

YR and BB are really awful these days. GH is passable, but Days is the most interesting soap right now. The thing I like about Days is that it is not ashamed to be a soap opera.

Only Miss Michael Learned making a grand return as Kay can save Y&R now?

Where is Penberthy’s gay homo nephew? He’s needed here.

Penberthy left in 82. Dano showed up in 83. I'm not even sure if Pat got a proper exit story.

How the hell did BB ever get popular? It was always so stupid with the worst acting around. It was soapy but in a cringe way. I never understood the appeal. But it just kept rising in the ratings until it became #2. What a shame.

BB was only ever tolerable when Sue Flannery was there. I miss that bitch.

Pam Long had more failures than successes. She was headwriter of 3 soaps as they went off the air. Texas, Search and Santa Barbara. Her OLTL stunk. Terrible writer.

Long is a very niche writer. She's not a good fit for many shows. Her SB and OLTL were atrocious. GL was the perfect storm for her. Her writing on Texas was really good too, but nothing could've been done to save that show. It had a bullseye on its back from episode 1.

Long is a very niche writer. She's not a good fit for many shows. Her SB and OLTL were atrocious. GL was the perfect storm for her. Her writing on Texas was really good too, but nothing could've been done to save that show. It had a bullseye on its back from episode 1.

Pam did improve the final year of Texas. It's a shame that she didn't start much earlier, but Texas was always probably going to be a lost cause.

I always figured that what she did on GL was just stuff she had planned for Texas. Maybe it worked so well because of her breakdown and script writers.

Did any eldergays here ever have Richard Bekins or David Oliver? I would've given 10 years of my life to fuck Oliver back at the height of his beauty.

What a dummy Dylan is! He thinks every month is sweeps! And he loves Josh Griffith’s Y&R! Idiot!

Vee, if you are listening, get Dylan banned! Vee, who is in the biz, is the boss and expert of everything. He’s in the biz, you know. Did you know that Vee is in the biz? The biz, you know! The biz! The biz!

Vetsoapfan, the senile old fuck from SON who forgets that GL dropped THE from its title in the 70’s, hated what Pam Long and Gail Kobe did to TGL. Time for his memory meds again.

[quote]Why didn’t the P&G shows cross pollinate more? Maybe Character A from GL is presumed dead and shows up in Oakdale as an amnesiac. Maybe James Stenbeck leaves Oakdale for Springfield but is pretending to be someone else.

I suspect there might have been more such cross pollination if the P&G soaps didn't have a long history of rehiring actors from one show for another role on a another show. Could get really confusing if a character moved from GL to ATWT but was interacting with an actor who he/she had also interacted with on GL as a different character.

So many actors moved between P&G shows:

Lisa Brown as Nola on GL, then Iva on ATWT

Justin Deas as Tom on ATWT, then Buzz on GL

Ellen Dolan as Maureen on GL then, Margo on ATWT

John Wesley Shipp as Kelly on GL, Douglas Comming on ATWT

Beverlee McKinsey as Iris on AW and Texas, then Alexandre on GL

Kathleen Widdoes as Rose Perrini on AW, then Emma on ATWT

Hunt Block as Ben Warren on GL, then Craig Montgomery on ATWT.

Sharon Gabet as Raven on Edge of Night, then Brittany Peterson on AW

Larking Malloy as Sky Whitney on Edge of Ngiht, then Kyle Sampson on GL

And many, many others

Mike Bauer from GL, played by Gary Pillar I believe, crossed over to AW at some point and romanced Pat Matthews. Were there any other P&G crossovers throughout the years, other than the obvious AW/Somerset and AW/Texas crossovers?

You don't know what you've got until its gone.

"Shitty" 80s SNL is actually so chock full of talent and humor compared to SNL of the modern era...

Doug Watson was such a ham you could stuff him between two slides of bread.

Doug Watson dropped dead after smoking wayyyyy too much.

when is Queen Locher interviewing Nancy Curlee? JFP? Give us a real conversation

Very true, dear Liz.

Even Miss Wyndham was on GL prior to playing Rachel.

I'm in love with Philece Sempler's interpretation of Donna. Why in the world did they get rid of her and bring Anna Stuart back?

Because you were the only person in America with that opinion, R136.

I've said it before, but if P&G had gotten Dennis Cole and Shannon Tweed to replace mopey Peter Simon and dull as dishwater Ellen Parker, respectively, the Bauers would've thrived through the 90s and 00s and might still be on the air today. The Bauers needed to be sexed up. Maybe bring on Cameron Mathison to replace homely Mikey O'Leary as Rick Bauer, now a gay porn star going by the name Trick Bauer. This stuff practically writes itself.

The Drew Dixon Troll is back @ r138.

R139 I figured as much.

And of course, Donna Love would be played by Connie Selleca or some such thing.

Maybe The Drew Dixon Troll is Cameron Mathison himself. He never fails to mention him as a replacement.

Cam just got fired so maybe he IS out here trolling for a new gig!

Ellen Parker was so fucking dull as Maureen until JFP gave her something meaty - killing her off. I agree completely with that focus group who found Maureen boring and wouldn’t mind if she was killed off. That death drove great story and Emmys for SO many people, Ellen Parker included. Brilliant soap opera.

Wie auch immer....

So many of the P&G actors were dull ugly NYC stage actors. I always preferred the beautiful eye-candy Y&R/B&B/Days type actors/mannequins. The P&G shows, especially GL, could've used some of those types of actors. They might still be on the air if they did.

Did Linda have to kiss wrinkly old Henderson Forsythe on ATWT?

Doug Cummings is watching, honey.

Did Marland name him "Douglas Cummings" as sort of an inside joke of himself cumming while looking at JWS in a speedo, like so many gay men back in the day?

Henderson was an asshole to Linda Dano. On the opposite side, even though Don Hastings hated the Miranda storyline, he was wonderful to Elaine Princi. They both hated the storyline but made the best of it.

[quote] Doug Watson dropped dead after smoking wayyyyy too much.

Need a light, hon?

Doug, Bev, Connie and Buggin played to the cheap seats. Such affected performances. I liked Gail Brown's low key believable style much better. She should of been a mover and shaker in Lemay's A stories.

Oh John, why did you suck Doug’s toes???

not really.

Since we're, I guess, on the subject of ATWT, did Lisa and Kim ever have a story together? Maybe back in Kim's bad girl days? I know Kim's biggest rival was Susan and I think she schemed against her sister. But what about Lisa? Anything?

Who’s cock did Dano suck to get cast on 4 ABC soaps when AW went off the air?

Someone with more knowledge of 70s ATWT will have to answer, but I know they touched on their history a few times in the Marland era and after.

They were clearly friends, but if one got mad at the other the sore spot of Bob would come up. The one story I remember is when Susan slept with Bob, Lisa sort of implied to Kim that she should have taken better care of Bob.

McTavish takes credit for the whole Linda Dano does the ABC soaps storyline. Angela Shapiro secured Dano. Dano and I guess Eplin were really among the few bankable AW actors with a strong fanbase.

Didn't ABC try to buy the Felicia Gallant character?

^yes I believe so but P&G refused. I wonder if they had plans to transfer her to ATWT with Eplin.

Yes, R158. They tried to do that first but P&G shut them down right quick.

AW had a 0.0 rating in the 18-49 demo when it was on soapnet lol.

AW was an old lady’s soap. As were all P&G soaps. GH was the cool soap.

R162 Not GL. GL got around that and stayed very competitive with GH. It is remarkable how strong it performed against it. And it wasn’t old people watching. GL had a lot of hot actors, too. AW and ATWT were seen as old shows. GL kept its glitter.

Did GL ever beat GH in there April Sweeps?

Can I bring bavk GL as Springeifld? My mom used to wartch GLs. It wuz there fav soap lol

Lisa and Kim were mostly friends. They had a bit of a falling out during the Lisa/John malpractice story since Kim sided with John. Also, their relationship was a little strained during the Doug Cummings story, because Lisa was briefly suspected to be Kim’s stalker.

Mama?

Kim and Lisa were long-time besties. Kim was Lisa's matron of honor for her planned wedding to Bennett way back in 1979.

[quote] Also, their relationship was a little strained during the Doug Cummings story, because Lisa was briefly suspected to be Kim’s stalker.

This was actually in Doug Marland's long-term projection that got him the job. He had both John and Lisa worked into the story playing off their long histories with Bob and Kim.

R163 Yes, GL stayed competitive in households against GH but GH killed GL in the demos. It was definitely OLD ladies with Ellen Stewart hair keeping GL competitive. There was no comparison in demos, which was most important to advertisers. GH made a killing over old lady soap GL.

P&G soaps attracted the senior brigade. The ABC shows played to a younger audience and were much more contemporary and had a certain electricity about them in the early 80s especially that none of the other soaps could touch.

GL did, in fact, stay extremely competitive with GH during its heyday. GL was regularly #3, 4, 5 overall. It never got tagged as an “old lady show” like some others for a variety of reasons that has been explained. It also had a certain swag/reputation/intangible thing that elevated it. That part is hard to explain.

GL was fabulous because of me.

MEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

GL could also be lethargic, especially in scenes with people like Peter Simon and Ellen Parker. Talk about your low-energy actors. I know it's a cliche, but their scenes together were like watching paint dry. JFP got that one right!

Zimmer definitely gave GL some sizzle. There wasn’t quite a character like her and Kim can act. Even when she chews the scenery, you can’t look away. I say that in the most positive way. The writers could give her anything and she would hit it out of the park every time. It was the perfect combo of character/actress. Viewers knew when she was on screen there was not going to be a dull moment. So yes, she helped the show be fabulous.

Even the name "Maureen" puts me to sleep. Couldn't they have given her a sexier name?

I think they missed how Ellen Parker’s Maureen was that soul of the show. Yes, she was boring. Yes, she was frumpy. They really missed the boat by not writing more of her and Roger’s friendship. She would shine in those scenes. Also with Vanessa. Her and Ed were not interesting at all.

As far as Pam Long, she would write fantastic relationships b/w characters and stayed true to who the characters were but still pushing them to grow. Her transformation of Beth was impressive. How she took the abused, scared girl from being in a very tender, epic love story with Phillip to dispatching him and hooking up with the rebel Lujack in less than a year is remarkable. Beth would have none of Phillip after he cheated on her.

Pam also wrote very detailed story that built very nicely to a very satisfying climax. Her only downfall was the sometimes hokey shit she would write and the occasional very dud character.

R175 here. I apologize for all the “verys”. I’m very sorry. Dammit.

Can Pam write anything but cornpone Southern characters who look like they got lost on their way to the Green Acres set?

R177 None of the Four Musketeers were cornpone thank you very much.

I thought she was more hokey in her second run. Again, she wrote really good stuff but that hokey shit would drag and was out of place with the stellar story surrounding it.

R168 Bullshit. Post the demos. GL was very competitive in demos as well. GL made a killing for CBS until the mid-80s collapse.

I still cannot get over the timeline from Beth/Phillip to Beth/Lujack. It was, what, 5 months? What I am most perplexed about is how it wasn’t a triangle. Beth legit wholly rebuffed Phillip as a love interest. He begged her. Begged and begged. She just moved on. Was this controversial? Did it cause a stink?

Top 5, 18-49 demo, Week of November 7, 1983

1. AMC, 6.1

2. GH, 5.8

3. OLTL, 5.1

4. Y&R 5.0

5. RH, 4.5

The slightly corny stuff was great, though. It was part of what I loved about the show.

You have plenty of bitchy, ugly and backhanded on a soap. To have that sort of love and schmaltz was like catnip.

It also mixed well with the very light frosting of semi religious content in Pam's story. Never overt, but a hint back to Rev. Rutledge and the guiding light in the window.

R181 I found this;

Top 5, 18-49, Week of November 4, 1978

1. GL 27.9 2. AMC 2.0 3. OLTL 1.99999 4. SFT 1.998 5. AW 1.8

I doubt R181's numbers are real. RH was NEVER that highly rated.

R182 I agree, that made GL fun. And it was a fun show. The more hokey stuff revolved around characters like Hawk. Ugh. It would really get stupid.

R184 Of course they aren’t real. Hence my more realistic ones at R183;

Fuck GH. It was pretty stupid most of the time. AMC and OLTL were much better, if you go by ABC soaps.

R180 , Pam long didn’t do endless recap - the story moved quickly; Beth mourned losing Phillip to pregnant Mindy; Lujack was already in Beth’s orbit; they were both living in boarding house - she helped him deal with finding out Alex was his ‘ma’

Alex already knew and liked Beth

It was a golden age

[quote] Beth mourned losing Phillip to pregnant Mindy; Lujack was already in Beth’s orbit

The reason for the switch is that Grant Alexander had let the brass know he was leaving - so why build up Beth & Philip, if you have another super-couple waiting in the wings (Beth & Lujack)

But also Judi Evans and Grant Alexander clashed behind the scenes, and to try to lessen the toxicity, TPTB broke them up and then Judi & Grant rarely had scenes together.

RH may have been middle of the pack in HHs during its prime years, but it was highly rated in the demos. There's a commercial that ABC played in 81 or 82 boasting that it had the top 4 programs among woman 18-49: GH, AMC, OLTL, RH, in that order.

R190 Surrre

R189 But they did have a lot of scenes after. A lot. Phillip was hounding her constantly. They ended up friends ( all while GA was still Phillip) but he was plotting to get her back. It makes sense, though, knowing TPTB knew he was leaving. Did it cause controversy among fans to break them up and have Beth so opposed to even the idea of getting back with him? One scene I saw on YT was Beth telling him flat out maybe what they had wasn’t all the special and what she felt for Lujack was.

I always kinda forget Grant wasn't there for a big chunk of time....wasn't it almost 2 years, when John Bolger was Phillip?

I just remember boring Maureen. Thank God they killed her.

And of course, when they brought Beth C back as Beth suddenly Philip and Beth were endgame again. If Beth C as Beth mentioned Lujack, thought of him once, I don't remember it

R194 Not once did Beth C’s Beth mention Lujack not even after she came back to SF shortly after Nick left. That is a rabbit hole for another day. Pisses me off.

I think Beth/Lujack would have been endgame 100% had he lived and they stayed on the show, on and off or whatever. Once they, smartly, recouped them when Judi was leaving (adding tension to her disappear), they were always going to be endgame. That disappearance and Phillip’s intense reaction was refreshing. I know that sounds crazy but he never got over it. It added to the legend. He never let her go. His intense mourning was fantastic. It added so much to when she actually turned up alive.

^^^ recoupled Beth and Phillip

It also didn’t work having Beth chase after Phillip instead of the other way around. I see why they tried it but it clearly bombed yet they just kept on with it. Beth was not interesting when chasing him but he was interesting chasing her. We got many crazy Phillip’s out of that. He was very unpredictable when he couldn’t have his Beth.

You forget they introduced Mary Kay Adams as India and she took over as Grant Alexander's new leading lady

So it was a Beth/Phillip/India/Lujack Quadrangle

R198 Was it? I guess in a way it was but Beth wasn’t even entertaining the idea of getting back with Phillip. India was slobbering over him and he was not having it for a long time. I could see if it made Beth jealous, caused issues b/w she and Lujack but nope. She was like, “roll on with your bad self.” That made her antipathy towards Beth odd. Beth couldn’t have been more clear to Phillip she had moved on. I guess it was that all the mens in SF were in love with Beth so that dried up a lot of cock India wanted.

R199 Phillip set Lujack club on fire to break but Lujack & Beth - but it cause Beth blindness. Then India blackmailed Phillip into marrying her

Then a few months after their marriage John Bolger replaced Grant as Phillip

Mary Kay was a big dykkie lesbian. NO chemistry with males.

R they breenging Guyding Lite back as Spree gfeld? A sequall? Is theyre a chance lol?

I luv Soap Diejest

They’re said it. Not me. It’s there words.

Alan Locher has scored a MAJOR coup

Booking Rosemary Prinz for a full hour

Isn’t Rosemary Prinz in her 90s now?

The Cass/Felicia/Wallingford set on AW always seemed so GAY GAT GAY. Even though Cass was supposed to be a ladies’ man, his love interests came across as drag queens or fag hags.

Phillip and Beth were walking down the aisle in March 1984 when Beth accidentally learned Mindy was pregnant with Phillip's baby. She walked out on him then. Phillip ended up marrying Mindy in a shotgun wedding, but she miscarried soon after that. Phillip and Mindy divorced soon after.

In the meantime, Beth had moved into the boarding house and befriended Lujack. They commiserated over their troubles and then by June 1984, Beth and Lujack officially became a couple.

India arrived in Springfield in August 1984 while Phillip kept trying to win Beth back. India blackmailed Phillip into marrying her in October 1984.

Grant left the show in Dec. 1984, replaced by John Bolger for the next two years.

When did Phillip and Beth officially become a couple?

It was obvious to the audience early on the Phillip and Beth were meant to be together. But officially, I think they became a couple in Nov. 1983 when the Four Musketeers all ran off to NYC to escape Bradley.

[quote]The Cass/Felicia/Wallingford set on AW always seemed so GAY GAT GAY. Even though Cass was supposed to be a ladies’ man, his love interests came across as drag queens or fag hags.

Yes, agreed.

Rosemary Prinz? Interesting.

Not to be mean, but Alan won't be able to tell her to just draw a smiley face on it all. He will have to let her speak her mind, or watch her wave goodbye 10 minutes in if she's told to keep it light.

At least part of that hour will of course include her dragging Irna for FILTH.

[quote] You forget they introduced Mary Kay Adams as India and she took over as Grant Alexander's new leading lady

Except MKA with Grant - while they had a nice antagonistic chemistry, they were clearly not to be taken seriously as a couple. The audience knew she was up to something.

Whereas there was a time that John Bolger and MKA were quite believable as a couple.

Believable cuz they were obviously gay? Lol

No, believable because they had a sort of Gothic chemistry together. With Grant, you'd never think Phillip would buy India's BS. With John's Phillip it almost seemed like they were having a fun game of cat and mouse.

Was MKA impressed that Grant's dong hit the toilet water?

[quote] They’re said it. Not me. It’s there words.

Words are clearly not your strong suit.

I liked MKA but she was not for Phillip. She should have been Alan’s evil wife.

India wanted to lick Beth’s clit.

R216 Yes, when they brought Bernau back in 1986 I thought they were headed in that direction.

Gay Bernau and dyke Adams were a terrible pairing. The gayness showed through.

What do you think Bernau's first reaction was when they paraded Grant by him for the first time, probably in a tight shirt with his visible hard pec and biceps straining to break free of the sleeves?

Who is Dylan and Vee? Are they on B&B? Or some foreign soap?

They're the imaginary enemies of Annie Dutton, still wasting away in an insane asylum just outside of Springfield.

McFlimsy was awful on this show. Totally phoned it in. Where's her Emmy if she was so wonderful?

Tell me more about Linda on ATWT. What did Henderson Forsythe do to her. He seemed humorless.

Henderson was so old he farted dust. Poor Linda.

Henderson hated being paired with Dano so he just stopped acting basically. He just came in and said his lines. He treated Dano terribly.

^Link please

I've really tried to ignore this insanity. All we want to do is post about our favorite old, cancelled stories. Why must we be assaulted by a constant barrage of nonsense posts from someone clearly off his meds?

How could you tell if Henderson Forsythe wasn’t acting and just reading. He was always so dull and wooden. It’s amazing he received Emmy nominations.

In Bernau's defense, it was extremely tough for him to hide his gayness. Unlike guys such JWS, Bernau was one of those gay men whose flames can be seen from space.

R228 It works best if you just block those accounts. Clearly it is a very mentally ill, obsessive person. S/he seems to be here because another board blocked them.

Never engage. Block, FF and your experience will be much better.

Forsythe was a really well-respected stage actor who, like Bryggman, probably just slummed in soaps for the paycheck. He probably respected his fellow actors, but he probably had zero respect for soap writing.

But Bryggman at least made an effort and his character was fascinating. David Stewart was full.

*dull

David Stewart always seemed constipated.

Mark Derwin is on a youtube interview. He spills tea. GL killed off Daniel St. John because David Bishins was such an asshole. JFP didn’t put up with pain the ass Bishins. Derwin hated Gary Tomlin at OLTL.

Anyway....

Fuck off, Vee.

Who or What on earth is a Vee, and why is he/she/it mentioned in every other post?

[quote] How could you tell if Henderson Forsythe wasn’t acting and just reading.

I wonder if he was the inspiration for Dr. Medford Brewster (George Gaines' character) in Tootsie.

[quote]why is he/she/it mentioned in every other post?

Because you [italic]still[/italic] haven't put the idiot who posts about "he/she/it" on ignore.

Do it. Go on. Do it now.

Pretty sure John Beradino's Dr. Steve Hardy was the inspiration for the character in Tootsie.

Anna Woleck Craig was in Tootsie.

Anna Woleck Craig

Oh, dear!

Vee was in Tootsie. He’s in the biz, you know.

I never saw Vee in their! lol I luv sopes

[quote] Rosemary Prinz on the Locher Room

With special guest Rosemary's Mole!

Did Rosemary's mole also have a contract, or was it recurring?

Prinz is soap royalty, but I think she grew to resent ATWT. She only did her short AMC stint as a favor to Agnes, and her brief RH run as a favor to Felicia Behr, who had been associate producer at AMC when Prinz was there. She had a recurring thankless role on Knots Landing in the 2nd or 3rd season.

[quote]In Bernau's defense, it was extremely tough for him to hide his gayness. Unlike guys such JWS, Bernau was one of those gay men whose flames can be seen from space.

See, I thought Bernau's Alan had incredible chemistry with several of the women he was involved with - Rita and Hope especially. I really enjoyed the Alan and Hope romance. I think GL lost a lot when the Hope character was written out and never seen again. Either she or Maureen should have been turned into the new Bert Bauer.

I never bought Bernau as a straight leading man. I only ever saw chemistry with Sofia Landon, who played Diane Ballard, but they came off more as a gay guy and his hag. I think Bernau actually butched it up for GL. In his earlier role as Philip Todd on Dark Shadows, he didn't even try to suppress his inner queen. I'm sure people's TV sets exploded from the flames.

Prinz never returned to daytime because Vee was forcing her to remove her mole. She refused. He is in the biz, you know.

We never talk about Susan Stewart.

When I was a young boy I loved the plane crash / island story with Alan and Hope. My mother would say that Hope was a selfish bitch because she would gulp water from their canteen while Alan would only wet his lips.

I still can't believe Bernau was ever portrayed in a believable hetero relationship. But I guess I can understand it, that it would have been believable in a very sort of Gothic romantic way.

In the same vein that Quint and Nola were - and Quint was very much the archetype of some Gothic gentleman out of literature.

(See also: Palmer and Daisy)

Gillian Spencer always reminds me of this dialogue between Jennifer and Kim when Kim was in a coma.

For yesterday is but a memory

And tomorrow is only a vision.

But today well lived

makes every yesterday a memory of happiness

and every tomorrow a vision of hope.

Look well, therefore, to this day

[quote]We never talk about Susan Stewart.

I'm glad she's my sponsor (though my mother wasn't). I've been sober since 1998. Thanks, Susan.

I miss Drunk Andy. He was also Horny Andy.

Who knew he was packing THAT?

The thing about Kim v. Susan, Kim cleaned up her act, but she was no better than Susan. Kim sort of got a reset after John raped her.

Nancy called Kim on that during the Bob/Susan affair and reminded Kim she was low born gutter trash who fucked her sister’s husband.

[quote]The Slut from Seattle

Is this you, Little Miss Seattle (from whom we have not heard in months)?

R260 No, not her (and she's been around here and there, have seen that signature....I think!)

This thread is no longer about Dano! Did anyone see her as Mame at Bucks County Playhouse? There used to be video clips online.

Also, we really need to deconstruct her work on Attitudes, dressing like a drunk lipstick lesbian who went into a dark closet and just put something on that she could reach, always the full slap of makeup painstakingly applied, with the one piece of hair coming down on her forehead. And the interchangeability of Nancy Glass and Dee Kelly.

There's her insatiable need to be the smartest person in the room and to be in charge of the conversation on the show, as she alternates between an imitation of being at rapt attention about the most mundane things and looking utterly bored and waiting for the other person to stop talking...all the back channeling to let you know she's three steps ahead. Looking at her cohost pretending to value her, but probably annoyed that she's there. Working hard to not QUITE talk over people.

She's hilarious and unbearable all at the same time.

[quote]This thread is no longer about Dano!

Any Magnificent Midwestern thread is open to discussion of any of the Magnificent Midwestern programmi, i.e., any of the P&G soaps.

It's a stealth soap thread, in other words.

Nothing "stealth" about it, dumbass.

Dano commercial from 1966

Well, I never!

I remember her beauty column in Soap Opera Weekly, and that she advised women to run some Conditioner into their hair in the morning if they didn’t have time to brush it.

She took on the maternal role backstage at Another World, from what I understand, with the younger actors as time went on.

I remember Linda and Zimmer going round and round a few times. Linda called out Zimmer in the 2000s when she started going to events looking like she was wearing a bathrobe.

Dano should give her shoulder pads to Tom Brady.

Linda with Joaquin Phoenix, Elle Fanning and Jennifer Connelly in the 2007 film "Reservation Road."

Was Brent Collins a gay?

Buzz had an accent when he first came to town?

Where was this gossip about David Bishins?

Ask Mo Garrett about Bishins.

Henderson Forsythe asked to be removed from contract, which is why his character got sent to Africa. BUT he did return from time to time

So I don't think he was that hated behind the scenes/

When does Miss Locher interview Patsy Bruder?

Rosemary Prinz originated the role of M'Lynn in the original production of Steel Magnolias - the role Sally Field did on film.

Why did P&G decide to phase out Don McLaughlin and Helen Wagner in the early 80s, even though they were the backbone of the series, but give musty old Henderson and Patsy a front-burner story with Dano?

[quote] Why did P&G decide to phase out Don McLaughlin and Helen Wagner in the early 80s

Helen Wagner actually quit, because they gave her nothing to do. So when she left, they didn't have much for Don McLaughlin. Though Don McLaughlin still appeared once or twice a month.

Was it the Dobsons that phased out Chris and Nancy? Kind of surprising since Justin Deas, who played her grandson, and Margaret Colin were hugely popular as Tom and Margo at the time.

Mary-Ellis Bumin hated Wagner. It was mutual.

Ask Conard Fowkes all about Helen Wagner

Annie and Dee were the ingenues of the show in 1981, along with Margo and Barbara. And Betsy was off the canvas but soon to return. Maybe they planned to keep David and Ellen since the Stewarts had more family members in a desirable demographic than the Hughes family, which in 1981 consisted of elderly Nancy and Chris, middle aged Bob and Don, and Tom.

Great point, r284.

[quote]Mary-Ellis Bumin hated Wagner.

I wasn't a fan either.

Helen was, shall we say, a cunt.

I love this interview with Helen Wagner. She cunts all over Colleen Zenk and Pat Bruder, among others.

In this excerpt she criticizes slutty female characters like Emma Snyder.

To be fair, just about everyone hated CZP.

Thanks for linking that R288. That was a fun watch. She was older when she did it and her memory was spotty in places, but I agree that just based on subtext, she was not a fan of Bruder or Zenk.

CZ seems to be the center of a few feuds - she wasn't loved by Helen, and she and HBS had their bitter rivalry.

Marland loved them both, though. Hmmm.

I know it's been mentioned, but I love the story that if you absolutely couldn't get your shit together while working on ATWT, you answered to Don Hastings, Kathryn Hays and at the very end, Helen Wagner.

Did CZ have the alcohol problem back in the early days? She’s up to 2 dui’s now.

Why did they get rid of Zane on AW? He was the only love interest of Felicia’s that I liked. I did not like her with Mitch or Lucas or John.

R293- I suspect that her alleged issues began around the time of her cancer/marital problems?

Drinking after oral cancer is not good. I feel bad for her.

I do hope that she is in a better place...

That Locher Room she did months ago did not help dispel any rumors that's for sure.

Didn't CZP also have issues with Margaret Reed? I feel like CZP playing vixen Barbara was not exactly a stretch for her.

It wasn’t a stretch. At all.

Old interview with CZP. Sounds like she was very close with La Hubbard, Maura, DeFreitas, and Eileen IRL.

Old interview with CZP. Sounds like she was very close with La Hubbard, Maura, DeFreitas, and Eileen IRL.

Colleen has not had an easy time of it. I'd be filled with fury if my husband's cheating gave me cancer and destroyed our marriage.

She's lost every living member of her immediate family (of birth) in the last few years, and then her son killed himself on top of that. So yeah, to be honest, I give her credit for getting out of bed most days.

R292 What story was that?

I loved Melissa Hayden's story about the same at Guiding Light, where Bill Roerick pulled her aside, in the nicest way, and said "Sweetheart, we don't do late. Look out at everyone you see on the floor. When you're five minutes late, they don't get home to their wives or husbands or children. So.....just no."

On the Another World facebook page they just outed Irene Daily (Liz) female lover - and she is still alive!

Author & Love Therapist Arleen Lorrance was Irene Daily long-time companion until her death

her Amazon page below

Bill Roerick was a big old queen.

Hey Butchie!

[quote]I'd be filled with fury if my husband's cheating gave me cancer and destroyed our marriage.

The same way she got him is the same way she lost him.

R305- Is that true?

Not a P&G fan but love these P&G threads.

You all are sane, other than the Soap Opera Network Troll. "Vee is in the business, ya know".

r306 In the early 1980s, Colleen and Mark were married to other people while both appearied on ATWT. They started an affair that resulted in the end of their respective marriages. They then married each other.

Fast forward 20+ years, Mark is cheating on her, gives her a virus (HPV?) that led to her tongue cancer. She ended the marriage shortly after that.

Holy Shit, R307- I had no idea that he gave her the HPV that caused her cancer? FUCK.

Royal Dano’s third least favorite child.

Colleen has had enough suffering. I condole her

Colleen does not have my sympathy. Cheater. Karma got her!

Irene Daily’s lezzy lover is a hottie. I’m going to message her and ask her what Irene’s snatch tasted like. Fishy?

I going to speculate that CZP probably got a little bit of a big head when the show was being written around Barbara and Gunner and the other times she was heavy in story. Some people probably didn't like it, along with some of the things going on in her personal life, and it caused some tension. Helen Wagner said that the ATWT set was a happy set, except around the time Don MacLaughlin died, but I just don't think that's possible for a set to be happy most of the time. Jealousy, tension, showboating, attention hogging, and back stabbing happens in every workplace.

There’s lots of CZ dirt out there. Lots. What a cunt!

Very interesting.....

Mark Pinter looks like he has a huge hairy dick. Good for her!

Vee has been blocking TLW’s return for years. He is in the biz, you know.

Who was the ATWT queen seen exiting a bath house? Park or Holmes?

I am interested in hearing from Irene Daily’s lover since she’s still alive. Let us hear more about Irene. She liked the young cunt. 20 years younger.

Did Irene and Connie take turns "initiating" all the newbie actresses when they joined the show?

This lunatic. No one gives a shit about you and your fucking soap message board enemies, you pile of demented shit. You are the saddest, dumbest person who ever lived.

Eat shit you fat cunt!

R321 But yet you reply every time. Every fucking annoying time.

Come on gossip girls. Who else, besides me goes back to 402 East 76th Street? Remember how CZ HAD to have her dressing room away from everyone else?? God she was a cunt.

r318

I always thought it was Parks(to be fair I really want it to be him because he is so fucking sexy)

Does anyone else find Queen Locher hella sexy and quite handsome?

Locher is a little people.

When is Locher going to interview Vee? He is in the biz, you know.

When is Locher's interview with Lady Wyndham? I'm sick of him interviewing the same people, Grant Aleksander, Beth Chamberlain, Zimmer, blah blah blah.

Margaret McLarty wants to be interviewed

I think Anne Heche said Linda Dano took on the role of maternal figure on the set. Makes sense; I can’t see Connie Ford or Vicky Wyndham taking someone under their wing.

I can see Connie touching the young ‘ums boobies.

Helen Wagner is in a snit that Lady Locher has yet to ask her for an interview.

Has Miss Locher interviewed Vee yet? He’s in the biz, you know.

I am the biggest dummy over theyre at SON.

Dumb Dylan is right on top of things over at SON. He almost knows as much as Vee. And we all know how much Vee knows. Vee is the expert on everything. That board is a god damned MESS! lol

I bet that kick in the cunt Connie and Irene had mad, passionate lezzy sex sessions. I hope there are tapes out there of it!

Where is the Queen Locher interview with Velekka Gray? I want to hear about her torrid romance with Joel Crothers.

Why did Linda not leverage her fame in the late 80s/early 90s into another talk show after Attitudes ended. She was famous outside of daytime thanks to SNL. I could see her doing that or becoming a fashion correspondent on the Today Show or something.

338 replies haha. I always knew this woman was a cocksucker. I remember turning on ‘Attitudes’ as a gayling and knowing that that shit was both was both low-budget and more chic than my eyes should be allowed to swallow. When I saw her on ‘Another World’ I knew God was good.

Dano always seemed to me like a big tall girl with broad shoulders and big feet. Has anyone here ever met her in RL?

R340 Is she still with us?

Linda Dano says she left "Attitudes" because they changed direction of the show, Instead of being information for women, the show veered into Tabloid Territory, chasing down lurid stories - even crazier than what she did on the Soap

Dano says she was offered Talk Shows over the years, but at that time in TV all the talk shows (except Oprah) was doing sensationalized TV, and Dano wasn't interested in that

Dano is just - meh. Not overly talented. She managed to eek out a career.

Did Linda get along with the cast of AW or did she feud with anyone?

I think everyone loved Linda. She was like the den mother. She definitely had a positive light that shone through the screen. Now, Lady Wyndham is probably a whole different story.

Connie Ford was kind to everyone. NOT! She scared the shit out of one extra when she screamed at her - Get the FUCK out of my light. Classy Connie. Classy.

How was GL when they had all of these huge future (some current) stars on at the same time? They had Brittany Snow, Jesse Lee Sofer (replaced by Paul Wesley), Tammy Blanchard (Primetime Emmy winner/ Two time Tony nominee), Taye Diggs (not on for long), Lindsey McKeon (decent sized star for a time), Patty D’Arbanville (many things including the Sopranos), Matt Bomer, Hayden Panetierre (maybe on at the beginning of the above actor’s regime), and a few others I am forgetting.

That’s a lot of hot property on at the same time.

Crazy vetsoapqueen at SON hated those actors. He still calls GL “The Guiding Light” and TGL. what a loon

R348

Aren’t you sorry you bothered, R349?

R350 More than you know.

Vee hired all those people. He’s in the biz, you know.

You might say Vee discovered those actors. He’s in the biz, you know. He is the expert on all things soaps, casting, and politics. Vee knows everything about everything.

Never presented hole.

Vee always used P&G products to scrub the toilets after Eileen Fulton’s notorious #2s. He would also clean up the piss that Zimmer would use on her face but drip all over the studio. Vee is in the biz, you know.

Remind me, which one of the Jamie Frames was gay?

Re: r288 clip:

How was the character getting a hysterectomy handled in the 1960s? Was it to remove a legitimate problem like cancer? For a long time the surgery was seen as a medical cure all for various “female complaints,” but now I believe they know it really messes with a patient’s hormones for the rest of their lives.

The idea of viewers rushing out for hysterectomies because they saw it on a show is chilling.

The idea that women would run out and get a hysterectomy because some dumb character on some dumb soap got one is laughable.

Viewers also thought in the 60s that Eileen Fulton and her ATWT were the same person and would attack her on the street.

On the flipside, when Bert Bauer had a Pap smear on Guiding Light in the 60s it was credited with an increase in women getting that test and saving their lives.

Soaps can be very compelling and powerful. They’re not like a primetime show because they’re in your living room everyday, and when they’re realistic in tone like As The World Turns the characters become family members.

I bought a plunger after hearing how Eileen plugged up every shitter she ever sat on.

Scene: Mental Hospital

Mentally Ill Loon: Linda is lovely.

(two seconds later)

Loon: I can’t stand Linda Dano. Ugh!!!

*rocks back and forth*

Plunger, clogged toilet. I'm obsessed with shit, because I'm a pile of shit!

*more rocking back and forth*

Loon breaks down doors and runs through group therapy room, screaming. ....

VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. SHE LICKED HER SNATCH! SHE'S A DYKE! DYKE! TOILET CLOGGED!

I don't understand HOW I could have POSSIBLY been banned at SON! HOW? I'm such a delight!

*Loon bangs head against wall until bloody, all the while repeating....*

VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW. VEE'S IN THE BIZ, YOU KNOW.

r361 is the soapvetqueenfan loony from SON who still says TGL 50 years later. What a head case!!!

Eileen pissed off Vee one day and he stole her plunger. It was not a good day for anyone at JC Studios because Eileen clogged the toilet that morning. Goutman and Gundaker were very unhappy. Vee had access to Eileen’s dressing room because he’s in the biz, you know.

THE Guiding Light.

Doug Marland and Pam Long, interviewed by Forest Sawyer on CBS This Morning, 1986.

I think Pam is beautiful

R365 Pam Long was pretty! And I absolutely LOVE her southern twang.

I miss our soaps :(

Doug was in poor health. Even several years before his death, he had trouble breathing. He was about 52 or so in that clip but he looked 82. He did not age well at all.

From the hair to the wardrobe to the name “Felicia Gallant” to the romance novelist career to her somewhat platonic seeming relationship with the hunky Mitch Lawrence and her friendship with Cass, was Felicia the closest we got on daytime to a long-running drag queen character?

Dumb Dylan thinks that Passions should be rebooted. What a dumb stupid fuck.

That Doug Marland/Pam Long clip is interesting. I always thought he didn’t care for her writing for some reason but he seemed to respect her and her work.

I doubt they would’ve been able to work together as a team but their styles did compliment each other.

Watching Pam Long makes me wish Debra Winger had played a soap writer back in the day. Maybe an adaptation of Carrie Fisher's Surrender the Pink (which wasn't much about soaps, but that was the heroine's job, writing for one)

"their styles did compliment each other."

Oh, dear!

This thread is loading so slowly on my iPhone. Anyone else having that problem?

I watched ‘Poltergeist’ recently after my mom said I would enjoy it. She said JoBeth Williams was on GL. I had no idea.

R375 she was a regular on GL for three years

Wait, I thought Pam Long left GL due to maternity leave yet here she is writing for SFT in 1986????

JoBeth was a tart on GL. I believe she had a relationship with Justin Marler.

Wasn't Search canceled in 1986? She has said that she knew the show was going to be canceled when she took the gig.

The reverse happened six years later. Soon after Pam was hired as Santa Barbara's headwriter, A. Martinez decided to leave and NBC cancelled it.

Has Pam Long even had a successful HW stint outside of her two GL runs?

According to Wikipedia, Pam left GL in 2/86 and joined SFT in 5/86.

Wasn’t her writing on Texas and Search praised too?

Is she related to that rodent like Paul Dano?

[quote]her somewhat platonic seeming relationship with the hunky Mitch Lawrence

You mean Mitch Blake

R383 beat me to it.

I’d also like to know why Pam Long didn’t join the ever revolving carousel of head writers in the 90s. She had a stint at OLTL when JFP was there. Was that well-received? IIRC JFP fired her and then wrote the show herself before hiring (of course) McT.

R371, I remember reading an item in a soap mag that Doug and his team attended a non-televised ceremony that NATAS put on to honor Pam Long and her team after the fuckup at the 1986 Daytime Emmys where Bill Bell was given the Emmy for writing that should have gone to Pam.

The noms were Y&R, GL, ATWT and GH.

Not sure if the clips shown were from the actual submissions, but Y&R had Jack blackmailing Ash -- give me Jabot or I'll tell dad you're not his daughter; ATWT - Margo slaps Simply Barbara after Babs makes a crack about Margo and Casey; GH - Frisco yells at Tony (zzz) and GL: a Lewis dinner where Vanessa remembers she ran over Reva causing her miscarriage as Vanessa was on pills; "You think being SORRY and a few tears is going to make up for this...Vanessa, your baby is alive and laughing and breathing...and my baby is DEAD and YOU KILLED IT!"

The rest of the episode was Rick yelling at a hooker in Alaska over a missing Roxie, and the Spauldings reacting to Lujack's guilty verdict; Beth went off on them all and India snarled: "I've seen more compelling drama on reruns of Perry Mason!"

R371 what do you expect, that he’d say she’s a shitty writer on national television?

NOt R371, no, but he could have revealed how he felt with body language and eye contact

R378 interesting. I wonder why she took it if she knew the show was doomed.

She said the same thing about Santa Barbara. She basically knew the show would be canceled before she took the gig.

R390 I believe she said it made her free to write what she wanted.

Her GL stints were good, though I think network interference eventually hurt her first run. GL was soaring in the ratings, the network thought they could capitalize on it by making the show more “GH” and it backfired.

Pam's style was schmaltz and warm and fuzzy. She was a great fit for GL and Texas, and even SFT, if that show hadn't been doomed from the moment it moved to NBC. She didn't mesh well with the tongue in cheek Santa Barbara or the more adult/urban OLTL. She might've gelled well at AMC. I recall her saying in an interview that she thought Agnes was brilliant at AMC. Her Philip/Beth/Mindy/Rick storyline shared some elements of the early Phil/Tara/Erica/Chuck storyline on AMC.

Why was SFT so doomed when it moved to NBC? This was all before my time. Teach me, eldergays.

Search was doomed because NBC moved it to a really tough time slot vs the soaring Y&R and a still decently rated Ryan's Hope. It lost half its audience after CBS dropped it.

R392 Do you not understand GL was not those things you mentioned when she wrote it, right? They had teenage rape/incest, an evil, evil twin, suicide attempt by the show’s star, and she wrote three huge super couples- Beth/Phillip, Beth/Lujack and Reva/Josh.

Yeah but the presentation was warm and familial. Whether that was her writing or Kobe's producing, it showed through those crazy stories. The show went off the rails in 1985 when it abandoned that tone.

Early 1985 was great. Around summer, it went off the rails.

It was several months between the time Pam left GL and when she started SFT.

I thought she left GL only due to maternity leave not actually meaning to leave for good. Damn, what she could have done with the show catching it that early. I heard she was consulted on Beth’s exit and urged them to reunite Phillip/Beth. True?

My understanding is that Pam went on maternity leave in Dec 1985, but her material kept airing into February. I think Bert's funeral was one of the last things she oversaw the script for.

The plan was for her to come back to GL after maternity leave, but then P&G asked her to try her writing magic on Search for Tomorrow instead. Her Search material started airing in May 1986, but it was too late for her to make any difference in the ratings.

R400 What a stupid move. Even though GL was off the rails, I’m not sure why other than the network tried to turn it into GH, Pam could have saved the show from the next year of disaster if she’d gotten it back by May 86.

I don't think she appeared in the credits for the Bert Bauer funeral episode. I think Jeff Ryder might've been sole HW for that. She really decimated the Bauers as a strong family unit, but who knows how much of that was network/P&G interference.

1986 was awful. Wasn't the year on the infamous Paul Valere murder mystery and the introduction of Chelsea, and those Bauers that no one had ever heard of (Lacey Bauer?). I think that was Sheri Anderson as HW and Joe Willmore as EP, who succeeded Kobe.

Early 86 was the worst. Summer ‘86 improved some. Fall was interesting for a hot minute. Early ‘87- awful.

I miss that show so much.

While I have nothing against Pam Long, I hated schmaltzy writing on soaps. Give me a good adult drama. Soaps really excelled at good provocative adult drama between the late 60s through the rise of General Hospital in the late 70s. And looking back, the rise of GH may have been a reaction to all of that heavy adult drama and the fans wanted something lighter, and more escapist.

You give me something like Peyton Place 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year and I'm in my happy zone.

Although Pam's GL stint was enjoyable and entertaining, the show dropped about 50 IQ points between Marland's stint and hers. Marland's version, and even the Dobsons', version, was very adult and intelligent. I know a lot of people don't agree and view Pam's run as a major golden era for the show, but I really think it was inferior to Doug's run.

Vee blocked all of Pam’s potential returns to GL in the 90s and 00s. He’s in the biz, you know.

I actually just found a newspaper clipping with a photo of Linda and me (and two others) at a charity event from a number of years back.

She was very friendly and fun. She was a little enamored of her own celebrity. Here’s the story on that front.

Linda was a guest of the MC, who introduced her to the crowd (along with others at he head table) during him introductory remarks. That was the extent of her role. And I don’t think she had much, if any, interaction with anyone outside the head table.

Just before dinner was to be served, Linda suddenly announced to our table that she needed to go. For some unknown reason, the MC felt compelled to take the microphone and inform the crowd of her departure. Well, she grabbed the mic and said, “I know it’s only been a brief time together, but I feel like I’ve gotten to know each and every one of you.” And on it went... Meanwhile, we were doubled over with laughter because it was such a grande dame moment. She finally finished her remarks to a mostly puzzled crowd, at which point someone emerged from the kitchen to hand her a doggie bag after which she made her grand exit.

We’ve never forgotten the hilarity of her “personal appearance” that evening.

AW's run on soapnet was a hilarious disappointment. Evidently, it averaged a 0.0 rating in the 18-49 demo, which was a first for any series on any cable or network channel.

GH was really never better, quality wise, to GL in the 70s and 80s. Except when GL went shit for a few years in the mid-80s.

Marland's GH was superior to GL at the time, which I think was being written by the Dobsons. GL was good, but the caliber of GH's writing combined with its electricity at the time, pushes GH over the top in regard to quality. GH was some of Marland's best work.

R412 I never thought so. I think GH’s perceptions were clouded by the hype at the time. Just my opinion.

It's a tribute to GL that it was able to withstand, and even thrive, up against GH for many years. That was an extremely tough time slot for any non-ABC show to survive.

I don't think NBC should have moved AW out of that timeslot where it was up against GH and GL. I think AW would have held it's own. One of the things that hurt AW was that it could not hold on to Days lead in in many key markets.

If AW couldn't hold DAYS' lead-in against the weaker OLTL and ATWT, why do you think it would have done better against GH and GL?

[quote] One of the things that hurt AW was that it could not hold on to Days lead in in many key markets.

actually they did when Jill Farren Phelps because Executive Producer

AW actually got higher demos than Guiding Light & As The World Turns, becoming the top P&G among women 18 - 34

and on at least two instances moved ahead of Guiding Light in the weekly ratings

CBS and ABC had distinct audiences. I think people either watched the CBS lineup, or watched the ABC lineup. CBS viewers tended to be older and more conservative, while ABC skewed younger and more urban. NBC, primarily with Days, AW, SB, Passions, Generations, SFT throughout the 80s and 90s, just seemed schizophrenic in its appeal.

[quote]If AW couldn't hold DAYS' lead-in against the weaker OLTL and ATWT, why do you think it would have done better against GH and GL?

Because audiences were used to AW being on at 3:00 for many, many years. When AW moved to 2:00, my Grandma switched to GL. She never would have done that, if AW had stayed in place. She didn't like Texas because of Iris and Santa Barbara was too Santa Barbara for her soap tastes.

One of the main reasons NBC cancelled Another World, is that they wanted their affiliates to air their new soap "Passions" to follow Days of our Lives

Affiliates can air network soaps anytime they want - they can even air them at 3 AM in the morning, and there nothing the network can do

So since the network wanted "Passions" to follow Days of our Lives, cancelling Another World would guarantee that.

[quote]When AW moved to 2:00, my Grandma switched to GL.

What did she watch at 2? And she liked AW but she didn't like Iris?

I think your grandma is an outlier.

Not much could compete with both GL and GH at the 3:00pm time slot. Both were powerhouses so NBC was pretty screwed trying to put a show there.

The collapse of NBC daytime in the late 70s had as much to do with the utter collapse of its prime time schedule as it did with ABC's rising dominance in daytime. People deserted the once-top NBC soaps (Days, AW, The Doctors) in droves. The quality of the shows didn't suddenly dip or suddenly change direction to warrant the loss of so many viewers. It's just that NBC's tanking in prime time trickled down to its daytime lineup and except for Days, none of those shows ever truly recovered, and NBC was never able to launch a successful after that.

My Grandma was Days, The Doctors, Another World, then Somerset. Then NBC messed up the lineup. She followed The Doctors to noon, but would switch to watch the 1st half of Y&R, then at 1 would switch to Days. I can't remember what she would watch at 2:00 before AW moved to that slot.

I wouldn't call GL a powerhouse at 3:00. I think they provided an alternative to GH.

R424 Except it was. Its ratings were top 5 throughout the late 70s to mid 80s. It frequently edged closer to top 3, even briefly getting #1 in ‘84 at the height of Beth/Lujack. Of course it was an alternative, it was opposite the other shows. LOL. It was a popular alternative. One GH execs were very much aware of and worried about.

R423 not enough has been written on this subject. It always gets blamed on AW’s 90 minute expansion, and I feel like that’s false (though I’m sure it didn’t help)

I don't think ABC was much concerned with GL. Yes, GL had good HH numbers, but its demos, which is all advertisers give a shit about, never even came close to reaching GH's astronomical demo numbers. GL, even at the height of its "newfound" popularity in the '80s, still mostly appealed to an older audience.

[quote]People deserted the once-top NBC soaps (Days, AW, The Doctors) in droves. The quality of the shows didn't suddenly dip

Days absolutely experienced a huge drop in quality in the late 70s after Pat Falken Smith (and Bill Bell, who was still serving as a story consultant) left.

R427 Not true. GL had good demos though, no, not as good as some ABC shows. Still, GH was concerned. GL, always popular, was appealing to a younger and younger audience starting with the Marland years. Coupled with its high HH ratings, they were concerned. They’d have stupid not to be. GH started losing huge chunks of its audience as GL hit another golden era.

FFS, GH was losing millions of viewers as GL was increasing its youth appeal. GH wasn’t concerned? Please.

Also, GH wanted to eat into GL’s numbers because Y&R was fast becoming the most popular show. If GL hadn’t stupidly tried to become more GH like, GL was poised to overtake GH in the mid-80s.

FFS GL was NOT number 1 in 1984. Yes, GL beat GH for 3 weeks only in households, but Y&R was number 1 for those 3 weeks. Such a fallacy that GL was number 1 back then. Number 1 in the timeslot, yes, but not number 1 overall.

ABC dominated the demos from the late 70s to the late 80s. Decent demos are the only reason why ABC kept the low-rated (in HH numbers) Edge of Night on the air for so long, according to Sharon Gabet. She also said that it wasn't ABC's decision to cancel it. They wanted to keep it going, but P&G wanted it gone.

R423 YES IT WAS #1 OVERALL for a few weeks in ‘84. It was even on Entertainment Tonight. No one would give a fuck if it JUST beat the stupid GH.

[quote] Decent demos are the only reason why ABC kept the low-rated (in HH numbers) Edge of Night on the air for so long, according to Sharon Gabet.

Many affiliates aired Edge of Night at 12:35 in the morning, and still pulled in strong ratings as it was good counter programming against Letterman on NBC

You’ve lost the plot when all you can bring up is demos. Overall HH ratings is all the general public cares about. Demos are for advertisers. Overall HH ratings reveal what is overall popular. Do older people not count? If a billion 50+ watched a show vs a million who watched another show but the million watched show had better demos nobody would give a fuck.

R434 How fucking stupid are you? GL beat GH for 3 weeks, according to Entertainment Tonight. Y&R was #1 during those 3 weeks and afterward. STOP being so fucking stupid asshole. GL was NOT #1 in 1984. They beat GH for 3 weeks but they were not no 1, u stupid asshole.

R437 Nope.

GH assholes get triggered when their fave is defamed

R438 Nope! I loved GL and Gail Kobe and Pam Long. Facts are facts. GL beat GH for 3 weeks. But Y&R was #1.

I WILL KICK YOU ALL IN THE CUNT WITH MY GOOD LEG!

R439 Yet you offer no proof.

Anyway, wow, this thread actually got to over 400 replies without being M’d. Is this a modern day record?

R422, that's for sure; when Lurlene had heard Joe and Elena had gone on the run on Texas, she said, 'You mean like Luke and Laura?"

Before the web and weekly soap mags, I was watching GL in the summer of 87; Josh and Reva were at Vanessa's house and it was all closed up and filled with leaves (I think); it was where they'd had the big slut of springfield showdown in 84; the writing was so good; I thought wow if I didnt' know better I'd swear Pam was back.

She was!

Networks cared about demos back then, but what they were most concerned about was the share and not the ratings. The share being the percentage of households that were tuned into the program. You would hear it all the time when soap people went on talk shows or on the magazines. Such and such show had a such and such share.

I'm not saying that GL wasn't popular, but it did not have the buzz of the ABC lineup or even Days for that matter that was turning things around with the Salem Stalker storyline, Marlena and Roman and eventual Bo and Hope.

Guiding Light did have buzz in ‘83-‘85, if not also the Marland years. I agree above- it was appealing to a younger audience. Word of the Four Musketeers and the super couples from it plus KZ’s Reva had GL on a lot of people’s radars.

R441 The proof is out there. It’s not hard to find. GL beat GH in households for 3 weeks in 1984. Y&R was #1 during those 3 weeks. #FACT

R445 It’s not fact.

I agree, it is amazing we’ve reached 446 comments without being put on subscribing status.

I wish shows were edited for certain storylines to view on a streaming service. Instead of watching whole shows, you could watch specific storylines. Not sure if it would work but I would watch other shows on other networks for specific storylines I’ve heard about.

Going in a slightly different direction, I wonder how things would have gone if ABC's soap lineup in the fall of 84 looked like this: RH at 12 (since it was apparently going to happen, no matter what), AMC at 12:30 (directly up against Y&R), LOVING at 1:30 (directly up against the start of ATWT and the conclusion of DAYS), then OLTL, GH and the last few weeks of EDGE. Would AMC suffer? Would LOVING have had a better chance of survival? I'm going to assume SEARCH is screwed regardless. What happens in '87, when it's LOVING/B&B/second half of DAYS at 1:30?

Stupid fucks. Just because someone said GL was #1 in 1984 it doesn’t make it true. Schemering’s book had so many errors. Nielsen has facts, not errors.

R448 You’re about to get blocked not the other guy. Move on.

What killed CBS's line-up was moving ATWT to 2 to allow B&B to follow Y&R. ATWT was regularly hitting #2 at that point and sandwiching the new and incredibly weak B&B in between Y&R killed ATWT and GL. People who had been watching ATWT switched to ABC to avoid Donna Logan's acne storyline et al.

We bitch about her here but Miss Locher has done things no one else has

Brava for her

I guess HH's give the shows and their fans bragging rights, but at the end of the day, demos are all that matter to anyone calling the shots. How do you think Days has been able to stay on the air the past 10 years despite really shitty HH numbers? If you look at their week to week demos, they're incredibly competitive with the other 3 remaining shows, sometimes even coming in ahead of GH and B&B. There are sometimes fewer than 1,000 viewers separating the #1 from the # 4 show in the demos.

I posted above, and no one believed me, but in 1981, ABC had the four highest rated shows among the 18-49 demos. GH, AMC, OLTL, and RH, in that order. Although RH was in the middle of the pack in HHs, its 18-49 demos were very healthy. They even ran a commercial boasting that they had the 4 highest rated shows among women 18-49 that year. The ad used to be on YT under one of their Love in the Afternoon promos, but it must've been pulled because I can't locate it.

I found Locher's much anticipated interview with Rosemary Prinz to be a snore. She was very eloquent and talked somewhat about ATWT and minimally about AMC, but so much of the interview was about her early life growing up NYC and and her theater accomplishments that, to be frank, no one could give a rat's ass about. There was one mention of How to Survive a Marriage and no mention at all of her Ryan's Hope stint. He doesn't know to ask the questions that fans want to hear asked. His Agnes Nixon tribute was much better, because he stayed out of the fray and pretty much let the participants steer the conversation.

R452 No one believes the RH demo numbers and no one cares about demos except corporate geeks. Move on.

SPICEN ATE MY SNATCH!

There are a lot of people on this thread with foggy recollections based on their own personal love for a show. To say that GL had the same kind of buzz as GH is ridiculous. Older, conservative viewers and white and black southerners tuned into CBS daytime. That was and still is their core audience. Nobody was rearranging their class schedule to watch GL. It had good HH #s, but that's about it.

R456 We have an ABC troll on this thread who is triggered by GL, apparently, and hellbent on glorifying ABC shows, esp (if you pay close attention) to only GH. He is hellbent on making it seem P&G shows were just for old folks. He takes some grain of truths to make his argument more realistic. In every article today (and yesteryear) about ratings, overall HH ratings were the dominant numbers reported. Period. Look at TV Guide today as an example. Demos are reported as secondary numbers but far and away, overall HH numbers are what is important. It is not even close. This troll has been doing this for numerous threads now. It denigrates P&G shows to bolster ABC shows all while claiming to “love” this or that P&G show.

An example of how demos should be taken- CW shows pull good demos but terrible overall ratings. Nobody cares 60 Minutes pulls so-so demos- it is dominate in overall ratings and THAT is what people see except advertisers.

P&G shows always were and always will be old lady nursing home soaps.

Dano, not demos! Dano, not demos!

Seriously, this demo debate is boring. Can we move on?

R459 thanks for earning your block

GH sucked and sucks.

What was your favorite storyline of Felicia’s.

Except for the alcoholism storyline, I don’t recall her storylines or love interests being interesting.. Felicia always seemed like a fag hag who was dressed by her best gay in ostrich feathers and crazy hats.

R450, it was Katie's acne -- not Donna's.

CBS was No. 1 in Daytime (when it was called Daytime) for ever 30 years.

Doug's Guiding Light won Outstanding Drama Series and Outstanding Writing in 1982 (for the year 1981 -- GH's BIG year with the Ice Princess and THE wedding).

GH just sat there watching GL win these honors; Geary won Best Actor; Strasser Best Actress.

Ice Princess- what a stupid, IQ dropping story. Embarrassing.

R462; the booze storyline was my favorite; she won the Emmy for that; "I DON"T HAVE ADRINKINGPROBBLEM"

Diva von Dish wrote about Felicia Gallant: "You may think you're the epitome of fashion, but there is something known as 'less is more.' You wear dresses that look like living room drapes, hats that are three sizes too big for your head, and furs that look like the death of entire species."

R465, I believe that was taken from a novel Thom Racina had written? He was a GH writer at this time.

He told a story once that writers HAD to have their scripts in on time.

He had an emergency surgery once and he's in the hospital recovering; The phone rings, it's Gloria Monty, asking for his script.

"Gloria...I'm...I'm in the hospital. I had surgery."

"Yes, dear. The studio is sending flowers. WHERE is your script?"

Doug Marland saved the show from cancellation with his stories in 1978 and 1979; Pat Falken Smith came in in the fall of 1979 and Luke rapes Laura, and she mostly continues on with Doug's characters, mostly.

The show was solid; it didn't matter who came in as writer after that; fans tuned in for the characters.

GH rode on fumes till Y&R dethroned it full time in 1988.

GH rode on hype. It was mostly shit after 1983. It lost millions of viewers. Ratings plunged. Yet, its hype lived on for no good reason.

GH is still on the air. Where is GL? Oh yeah.......cancelled. Even P&G didn’t want their old lady in a nursing home soaps.

[quote] it was Katie's acne -- not Donna's

I think you made my point about how bad B&B was and how destructive it was to the CBS line-up. Don't forget CBS' daytime line-up's dominance was in huge part due to The Price Is Right, not SFT, Cap, ATWT, GL, or B&B.

[quote]What was your favorite storyline of Felicia’s.

Felicia finding out Lorna was her daughter, Felicia's comic misadventures with Wallingford and Lily, Felicia's friendship with Cass, Felicia's initial entry to the show as a rather bitchy character.

I can tell you the absolute worst: being saddled with that Russian boy toy at the end of the show.

ATWT was NOT hitting #2 in 1987.

The top 3 was basically GH, Y&R, and OLTL which alternated with Days and AMC every now and again.

Well look at Vee being the expert about everything. Asshole.

This pissy ass argument over ratings and demos happens all the time over the same exact 40 year old shit by the same fat semi-autistic caftan flapping bon bon eating tragedies.

[quote] ATWT was NOT hitting #2 in 1987.

Yes. It was. Then it was moved from 1:30 to 2 and dropped.

I can't find a weekly archive online to show you, but I know what I know.

1985–1986 Season

1. General Hospital 9.2

2. The Young and the Restless 8.3

3. All My Children 8.0

4. One Life to Live 7.8

5. Days of Our Lives 7.2

6. Guiding Light 6.8

7. As the World Turns 6.7

8. Capitol 5.1

8. Another World 5.1

10. Loving 4.2

10. Santa Barbara 4.2

12. Ryan's Hope 3.2

13. Search for Tomorrow 2.9

1986–1987 Season

1. General Hospital 8.3

2. The Young and the Restless 8.0

3. One Life to Live 7.2

4. All My Children 7.0

4. Days of Our Lives 7.0

4. As the World Turns 7.0

7. Guiding Light 6.3 (Overall 50th Anniversary Season, Radio and Television)

8. The Bold and the Beautiful 5.6 (Debuted March 23, 1987)

9. Capitol 5.2 (Final Season; ended March 20, 1987)

10. Another World 5.1

11. Santa Barbara 4.2

12. Loving 3.9

13. Ryan's Hope 2.7

14. Search for Tomorrow 2.5 (Final Season; ended December 26, 1986)

1987–1988 Season

1. General Hospital 8.7

1. The Young and the Restless 8.7

3. All My Children 7.7

3. One Life to Live 7.7

5. Days of Our Lives 7.1

6. As the World Turns 6.6

7. Guiding Light 6.2

8. The Bold and the Beautiful 5.4

9. Another World 5.1

10. Santa Barbara 4.9

11. Loving 3.5

12. Ryan's Hope 2.8

"ATWT was regularly hitting #2" As in "on a weekly basis." Not for the season.

Clearly I am never going to be able to come up with weekly ratings reports from 1987 to convince you. Oh well.

Do you not know how averages work R477?

Hey, r478. FUCK YOU. I do. But clearly you DONT. ATWT could hit #2 for several weeks and still average out to #5 or 6 for the year.

I tried to be nice about it, because, again, we don't have easy access to the WEEKLY ratings. But if you are going to choose to be an asshole, FUCK YOU.

R476 You clearly proved the asshole who claims that ATWT was regularly hitting #2 wrong! Bravo!

R479, I didn't mean to make you mad. It just looks like you are confusing the 86 and 87 seasons. Girl, it happens. You get older and it all blends together. No worries.

Top 5 soaps, for the week of May 4, 1986:

1. Young and Restless, 9.3/33 2. Ryan's Hope, 8.9/31 3. Search for Tomorrow, 8.6/30 4. Guiding Light, 8.0/27 5. Loving, 7.7/26 5. (tie) Another World 7.7/26

Oh. We’re still having a debate over ratings that only two fat old whores care about. That’s a thing that is still happening.

Back to the topic of Linda. Who was the biggest drag queen...Felicia Gallant, Sally Spectra, or Brenda's Jill Abbott?

Sally Spectra was the biggest drag queen. She looked, moved and spoke like the mother of a drag house.

R482 Fake ratings! Search was on its last leg in 1986. Ryan’s Hope was at the bottom of the ratings also. Try again.

Top 5 soaps in 18-49 demo for 1984:

1. Ryan's Hope 7.6/28

2. General Hospital 6.2/23

3. All My Children 5.9/21

4. Young and Restless 5.5/23

5. One Life to Live 5.1/19

Sue Flannery licked Darlene's cooter.

That story of Linda Dano having what she clearly thought was a "grand lady" moment while at a dinner is a hoot. I'd love to hear others like it. Surely some eldergay has a story about Kathy Glass, Q rating at its apex, lording over the little people at Bambergers.

Dano’s snatch stinks!

I have a stack of Soap Opera NOW!s lying around from 1986 on; I'll dig 'em up sometime and show the ratings;

I know ATWT circa 1986-87 was my favorite soap of all time.

Families. Secrets. Passion. Romance. Deception. Love.

Did Felicia ever have a cat fight. She should have smacked the shit out of Cecile.

When will Miss Locher be interviewing Kathy Glass? That interview will reQuired viewing for so many of us.

Soap opera network has the 1987 ratings posted in their cancelled soaps section. Looks like ATWT hit #2 a couple times in 1987 - but it was during the Iran contra heatings where preemptions were all over the map so ratings were skewed. Some shows only aired 1 episode a week. So no, ATWT did not hit #2 with any regularity.

I think ATWT's best year in the 80s was the 86-87 season, when it tied for 4th place with AMC and Days. Otherwise, it was general smack dab in the middle of the pack.

Cecile would have slapped Felicia down and then extinguished a cigarette on that tragic ducks ass hairdo

R487 RH’s demo ratings were higher than its actual HH ratings? Huh? You’re making things up and are a GH/ABC Stan.

Look who was named Daytimer of the Month! Miss Glass is so deserving of the honor. She has the highest Q rating of any actress in daypart programming, and holds the record for most teen fan mail in a given month.

Snatch

Wowwwww

I loved that clip of Marland/Pam. He was a nice man and she was frigging gorgeous with a fabulous Texan twang.

I’ve told this before: in London a few months before Marland’s death I walked up to him at a performance of Dancing at Lughnasa in London. He looked shocked and brought over his (male) theatre companion and said “This guy actually knows who I am!” I remember telling him I loved his writing and how moving the Angel Lange storyline was, especially Angel’s testimony at the trial. I know...MARY! But Marland seemed touched by my compliments.

I still can’t believe he wrote the Angel storyline almost exactly like Beth’s on GL with the same actor playing the abusive step dad.

With all due respect to Marland, most headwriters, even the good ones, have 4 or 5 go to storylines and they just spend their careers retelling those stories.

R503 Still......

Are there any Search for Tomorrow fans on this thread? Back in 1982 or 83, when SFT was on NBC, I tried to watch it one summer, but I didn't find it interesting at all. Recently, I watched some 1980/81 episodes and promos of the show on YouTube, when the show was still on CBS. I found the CBS episodes more interesting than the NBC ones. I also thought the CBS episodes looked much better than the NBC episodes in terms of lighting. My question for any long-time viewers, was there a big difference in the quality of the show between its CBS and NBC runs?

Marland was an unhealthy man. No wonder he croaked young. He looked awful in that Pam clip.

I would've asked him what went on between him and Agnes Nixon that led to his departure from the show he created with her, Loving. That should've been a beautiful working relationship on paper, but there seemed to be conflict.

Doug was a heavy smoker, unfortunately

Doug hated women. Period. He was a homosexual and had trouble with strong women like Monty & Nixon. He bonded nicely with gay Calhoun. And yes, he kind of wrote alot if his same stories over and over. He was very over rated and violated his 10 rules quite often.

I think NBC and P&G did what it could to make SFT hip and contemporary, and some of the stuff worked, especially the Warren/Suzi/Wendy triangle. That got some buzz, and NBC promoted the hell out of that story. Part of the problem was that it was also trying to tell GH-type action adventure stories within the confines of a half-hour format, which just didn't work. Another issue, and one that went deep into the show's structure, was that the show has no core family. The tentpole characters were basically friends Jo and Stu, whose families came and went, so there was no real family to focus on. I think they tried to remedy that with the Kendalls and McClearys, but it never really all came together.

Even the best daytime writers repeat themselves. I mean, there are just so many stories to tell, especially when you're jumping from show to show. Doug wrote for six soaps in the space of 10-15 years (ATWT, GL, GH, Loving, The Doctors, and worked with Lemay on AW), so it's only natural that he would repeat certain themes. I don't deify him to the extent others do, but there's no denying the man knew how to write daytime and do it with some intelligence. I would put him in the same tier 1 category as Nixon, Lemay, Bell, Irna, and even others like Gordon Russell, the Dobsons, Wisner Washam, Claire Labine and Henry Slesar.

I feel the Dobsons are very underrated. Their work on GL and their first run on SB was stellar.

They also created the building blocks on GL , ATWT and GH which other writers (especially Marland) used during their writing stints to great effect.

They created iconic characters like Alan and Phillip Spaulding; Margo Hughes; James Steinbeck; and Craig Montgomery.

Their stories were still impacting these shows more than 20 years after they occurred-Lesley Webber’s search for Laura; Phillip Spaulding’s parentage ; Roger Thorpe’s rape of Holly; Tom and Margo’s romance; the Stenbeck saga.

And Bridget Dobson was a bitch to Jill Farren Phelps, so how can you not love them.

I agree that the Dobsons are really underrated. Not a huge fan of their ATWT, but their GL was really spectacular. If Santa Barbara had been more of a commercial success, and if there hadn't been all that internal politics there, their reputation probably would've been solidified. I think Marland was great at telling intelligent story, well, relatively intelligent for daytime anyway, but there's something very humorless about his writing. It's as if his own joyless personality seeped deep into his writing. And the constant recapping and exposition, especially on ATWT, became really tedious after awhile.

Am I the only one who like Beth/Coop? They were hot and it made sense.

Bridget Dobson liked her wine. Too much, at times. She was a nasty drunk.

[quote] but there's something very humorless about his writing

I disagree. Shannon & Harriet were great comic relief on Marland's ATWT. Lisa also was good for a light-hearted barb.

Hiya, SEE-sill.

R512 Bridget was not a bitch to JFP. It was all about New World and how they kicked her out. JFP had nothing to do with that takeover. Bridget was a mean drunk.

Has Dano completed her DOOL stint?

The best description of Doug Marland is something I read on a soap message board years ago. Doug Marland is Harding Lemay with a plot. That pretty much sums up Marland's writing style and which is why Marland was able to have more success writing soap opera than Lemay.

Lemay is one of my favorite writers of all time, but he could never duplicate his success at Another World anywhere else probably because he wanted soap opera to be something that it wasn't. If we're being truthful, Lemay just grafted his style on to the house that Agnes Nixon built. Nixon poured that foundation over at AW, Cenedella just continued what Agnes wrote and Lemay just removed the soapy elements like murders and year long secrets and made it more adult and theatrical.

I think the Dobsons are underrated for similar reasons. This is no shade, but I think the Dobsons were writing drama that was just too sophisticated for the average soap viewer to appreciate.

The Dobsons sucked balls. Bridget pussy whipped Jerry in her drunken stupors.

[quote]Lemay is one of my favorite writers of all time, but he could never duplicate his success at Another World anywhere else probably because he wanted soap opera to be something that it wasn't.

That's true. It's pretty amazing that he was such a success at AW since it was so different than what came before (or after). It's also weird how the audience's appetite for his storytelling seemed to evaporate practically overnight -- AW was in the top three ratings-wise from the 1972-73 season through the 1977-78 season. Then it plunged to #8 the next year. (It ranked #2 for the decade). Were viewers weaned on AW just biding their time waiting for a soap that would emphasize murder, the mob, mad scientists and world-freezing weather machines?

R522, I'm going to compare it Mad Men. One of the complaints that some people had about Mad Men, which IMO was one of the greatest dramas ever, was that it was slow and very little happened.

This was Lemay's AW. The audience was sitting through 5 minute scenes of complex, character studies driven by one character's subconscious lust for her father and her jealousy over his new, young wife. And the idea in the back of his head, whispered by the jealous daughter, that his new wife wasn't completely reformed and could be taken away by some younger, more virile guy at any second. Interspersed with scenes at The Complex and Rachel sculpting.

My personal take is that people were intrigued by murder, the mob, and mad scientists and the short 30 second and 1 minute scenes over at GH. Stuff was actually appearing to happen over there. It just transformed daytime. It's very telling that Lemay's last great hurrah was the Sven storyline, which he hated writing.

I think the main reason he hated the Sven storyline was because it led to Rachel being blinded, a soap staple he loathed.

Rachel's storylines from 1978-87 do feel a bit like the writers were checking off boxes: go blind (twice), get amnesia, Who's the Daddy?, reunite with an old flame, remarry your true love, transition from heroine to mom, transition from mom to grandma.

Was she ever on trial for murder, too?

Rachel and Mac were overplayed and worn out as characters by 1983. After the double wedding, they needed to give them a few years of acting as supporting characters, with more members of the extended Cory family returning (like Dennis Wheeler or Pammy Davis), or maybe have Rachel have a final late in life baby in 1984/85 with Mac to mirror the 70s storyline of Ada’s pregnancy. I know that Rachel had twins; that story was stupid.

Another thing they could have done with Rachel and Mac is utilize Jacquie Courtney when she returned-instead of making Rachel an amnesiac in 1985, they should have had Mac lose his memory and think he was still engaged to Alice.

Rachel was on trial for murdering Mitch in 1981; that’s how Mac found out Mitch was the father of Matthew.

The reason AW tanked in the late 70s was because Harding exited; around the same time, Doug started headwriting GH

He had three major stories that propelled the show from near-cancellation to No. 2 (and then his successor, Pat Falken Smith, capitalizing on the groundwork he laid -- she was smart to do so -- took the show to No. 1)

Those stories were Lesley taking the rap for killing David Hamilton when Laura had done it; seriously, most teens are lucky to get 'don't slam the door'; mama Lesley went to JAIL to save her daughter; the other was the Lesley/Rick/Monica/Alan quadrangle; and then there was hooker turned nursing student Bobbie Spencer trying to wrest Scotty away from Laura; I used to watch AW in junior high and I'd flip over to ABC and GH and when I saw a shirtless Scotty in his apartment with Laura, I didn't switch back.

Doug introduced new characters; Audrey's virginal niece Annie Logan; Alan's diabolical in-your-face sister Tracy....Doug had all the 'minor' characters down pat. Great Uncle Edgar Quartermaine who decreed that only blood Q's will get Q money; Colleen Middleton, Lesley's jailhouse cellmate, sexy Roy DiLucca who made Bobbie forget Scotty.

The show was gold; I can't decide what I like more Doug's GH, his GL or ATWT

I'd watch all in reruns all of the time if I could.

Which of Felicia’s husbands were your favorite -Cecile’s father, Louis St.George? Zane Lindquist? Mitch Blake? Lucas ?

Zane was my favorite.

Liberace, Linda Dano, Connie “kick in the cunt” Ford, and Dr. Jonathan Newman from The Golden Girls all together in some sick gay dream. The only one missing is Jackee. I’m surprised viewer’s television screens didn’t burst into flames when this aired.

Anybody watch Alan Locher’s GL reunion today? I want to know if Johnny Bauer got a brain tumor and died because the actor pissed off Pam Long by refusing to sing a particular song on air. I remember Michael O’Leary telling that story.

r533

interesting... anyone know that story?

R533 Johnny Bauer never died. If I recall correctly, the Johnny/cancer story was meant to give Johnny some edges and also give him a sort of spiritual experience without being explicitly religious - calling back to Rev. Rutledge and the like.

I don't know anything about any song, though that might have been a backstage quarrel that the actor had with Pam, not wanting to sing that song.

Jamie Goodwin was handsome, but Johnny was always a bore and just never got any more interesting, even with cancer. The story, unfortunately, got dragged out about 6 months too long, because of the writer's strike. It was also playing out at the peak of Kristi Ferrell's coke habit, and her performance was a bit manic - I think she actually had a bit of a breakdown because at the end of that story, Roxie is sent to an asylum.

But Johnny Bauer lived, went on to a relationship with equally tedious and boring Chelsea, was briefly involved with Dana Jones, the Beth lookalike who was eventually killed by Rae Rooney, and then was sent offscreen, explained in the story by a visit to Roxie in her asylum in Switzerland.

If there was ever a character that should have been recast and brought back, Roxie Shayne was it. But I didn't know until this last year or so how Kristi apparently didn't get along well with Zimmer, and was a bit of a hot mess at the show, so I think people just had a bad connotation of that character.

Mary Ryan Munisteri planned to make Frank Dicopoulos (who was already cast) as the Bauer cousin, Todd Bauer.

But the minute the ink was dried on his contract, Munisteri was fired and Pam Long was lured back. She changed direction with the Todd Bauer character.

She created the Cooper family, with Frank Dicopoulos as Frank Cooper. And changed the Bauer cousin to Johnny Bauer, with James Goodwin cast in the part

On a Locher reunion last year O’Leary did say that Goodwin refused to sing a song on air that Long specifically wanted him to sing, he refused and lo and behold Johnny had a brain tumor. And O’Leary apparently said “It was the song that created the brain tumor, right?”and Goodwin said “Yep.” Maybe it was just Long’s way of giving him a scare. He was gone eventually, anyway. Johnny was a bore.

I remember a brief mention of Todd. This was the same family from whence Lacey Bauer came from....a terrible character that lasted literally a matter of days.

She was Charity Rahmer before Charity was Charity. Or more GL related, she was Ann Hamilton before Ann was Ann!

[quote] I remember a brief mention of Todd. This was the same family from whence Lacey Bauer came from

When Pam Long came back she promptly dropped the Lacey Bauer character, and traded it in for Harley Cooper

Mary Ryan Munisteri was going for a Cameron/Dinah/Alan-Michael/Lacey Bauer quadrangle

When Munisteri was fired, and replaced by Pam Long, she (Long) kept the quadrangle, but replaced Lacey Bauer with Harley Cooper.

As Alan-Michael & Lacey Bauer were distant cousins, so hard to make a quadrangle with that combo.

[quote] As Alan-Michael & Lacey Bauer were distant cousins, so hard to make a quadrangle with that combo.

Pish posh!

I remember reading someone in the old RATSC boards saying that CBS wanted more international flavor to make GL seem as hip as GH, and thus we got.....Jackson Fremont and Christine and Paul Valere.

r536 That doesn't jive with when the actors started and Pam Long returned.

Jamie Goodwin started as Johnny Bauer in June 1986.

Johnny Bauer's sister Lacey Bauer was in town briefly in summer 1987.

Pam Long returned as HW in late summer/early fall 1987.

Frank Dicopoulos started as Frank on Oct. 31, 1987.

R543 - it jives with changing Frank Dicopoulos from Todd Bauer to Frank Cooper

and dropping the Lacey Bauer character for Pam Long's own creation of Harley Cooper

This website explains the Bauer family tree.

Johnny Bauer and Lacey Bauer were the same generation as Mike, Ed and Hillary Bauer. However, Johnny and Lacey were obviously much younger than Mike and Ed.

[quote]She created the Cooper family, with Frank Dicopoulos as Frank Cooper. And changed the Bauer cousin to Johnny Bauer, with James Goodwin cast in the part

r536/r544. The point was the Johnny Bauer character had been around for 15 months before the Frank Cooper character debuted. However, your post suggested the the Jamie Goodwin was cast after Frank Dicopoulos was cast. That's what I was saying didn't jive.

R543, your history is spot on.

I recall watching Josh and Reva in the summer of 1987 (maybe early June?) rehashing their life together and it was so raw (everyone thought Kyle was Marah's daddy at this point in time); the writing was so good I thought wow, it's like Pam Long's back.

This was before the web and Digest having late-breaking news.

Pam Long's 1987-90 run was damn near perfect in my recollection.

We had Alan/Reva/Josh/Sonni/Will and Rick/Meredith/Phillip/Blake -- the return of Roger, story for Alex; Phillip taking over control of Spaulding (where was Grant's Emmy for that?) the return of Holly and Roger; India was back for six months!

Sadly, we had low points too; Chris Bernau passed away and we got Naldo Marchetta as Alan. Rusty's southern drawl sucked the energy out of the room; not every miscast was a miss -- Kimberly Simms was wonderful as a more adult Mindy.

And I would have kept Amanda around when she came back for Christmas 1987. AND brought Hope back to temper Alan and be there for Alan-Michael; When A-M was shot, Ed and Alex made the decisions on his surgery; there's nothing like family members off the canvas coming back to town to help a loved one in jeopardy.

R546 must be the soap "sources" troll

I think there was going to be Todd Bauer AND Johnny Bauer

Johnny was already on, but Todd was also supposed to be brought on, but became Frankie Cooper instead

R549, yes. that's ringing a bell.

Today, we can follow actors on Instagram and we know what they had for breakfast, but back in the 1980s we had Soap Opera NOW!, Digest, and items in Daytime TV magazines.

A different time.

A better time.

Funny, think about Frank D. He really wasn't a great actor, but Frank and Harley were one of the best brother/sister pairings on soaps. I believed that relationship more than any other.

Frank wasn't an atrocious actor, but he just didn't have it in him to do subtext.

He was amazing with Melina K. And very realistic with his family.

I still think we've never quite been told the whole story of who gets paid what as a writer in terms of creating characters, etc.

We've had writers say that no, they don't get paid if another writer uses their characters. But then years ago there was a lawsuit or something with an OLTL writer who had been HW, and supposedly he DID get paid if one of his characters was used. (Was this maybe in conjunction with the online version?)

It would explain why certain writers created new vs brought back old. (As in, it would cost us to use Roxie so voila, let's create Cassie!)

As late as 2000 the late actor Anthony Addabbo claims he was fired from Guiding Light because Executive Producer Paul Rauch told him the new writers wanted to create new characters because "they get a payment for it", which is why his character had to go. To make room.

Rauch would later say Addabbo misunderstood what he said, but Rauch never clarified his remark.

Here is the language from the Writer's Guild Contract:

h. Character Payments*

*Note that as to characters from non-prime time serials subject to this Agreement, which serials were first broadcast prior to February 14, 1973 and which characters were created between February 14, 1973 (the"effective date") and March 2, 1981, the following special provision applies pursuant to the 1973 and 1977 MBAs:

If a writer on or after such effective date creates a character (which shall include a characterization) which is, as between the Company and the writer, essentially the sole original creation of the writer and is written into the material for the serial, is distinctive and identifiable in the sense that it embodies a combination of characteristics which as a whole is not common to and therefore sets it apart from any other character as a whole; and as to which the writer has submitted in writing, no later than the time at which the writer delivers the material written for the serial in which the character is introduced, to the Company a detailed characterization of any character which he claims to be his original creation, as aforesaid, including the interplay between that character and other characters in the serial; and if the character is subsequently extracted from that serial by the Company, or its assignee, licensee or successor in APPENDIX A ARTICLE 15.B.3.a. 501 TELEVISION EXHIBITION interest and used as the principal character (or as the co-equal leading character) in a new serial, the Company shall pay to the writer(s) who created such character the sum of one hundred dollars ($100.00) per week for each week during which the new series or serial is broadcast, up to a maximum of ten thousand dollars ($10,000.00). If such character is created by more than one (1) writer, such payment shall be divided equally among such writers unless such writers file with the Company a written statement setting forth a different division.

If a character used by the Company in good faith embodies one (1) or more essential characteristics not embodied in a character originally created by the writer, or in good faith does not embody one (1) or more essential characteristics embodied in a character originally created by the writer and which addition or deletion creates a significant personality change in such character, such character shall not be deemed to be the character originally created by the writer.

(2) Additional compensation for uses of serial material as set forth in Article 15.B.14., except for the character payments in subparagraph h., may be bought out by negotiation subject to payment of the applicable "upset price" set forth in Article 16.B.5.

Chris Bernau & John Bolger - TOGETHER

R554 Love you and smooches, toots, but could you translate that into layman's terms?

As much as I love His Pendulousness, seeing old John Bolger photos is making me all tingly down there.

Bolger was more handsome than Aleksander, whose mouth was sort of baboon-like. But Aleksander was way more magnetic.

Aleksander's entire face was baboon like. No joke- His eyes and facial structure. Very similar to a baboon or even a Java Macaque!

R558 and R559 - maybe he's related to Nanette Fabray?

R560- Absolutely NOT- What is that vile creature?

Here is Grant's twin.

^^^^Motherfucker. Shit. Sorry-Scroll Down to see Grant's twin.

The baboon.

I wonder if Grant has a dark red ass?

Bolger would have made a great Jamie on AW.

I remember many threads ago a few posters had an elaborate slash-fiction style summary of where Jamie Frame had scored his first cock, and all the guys in town he'd sucked off or bottomed for - it sure would have been more interesting that some of the het stuff Jamie was forced to endure.

[quote] I remember many threads ago a few posters had an elaborate slash-fiction style summary of where Jamie Frame had scored his first cock, and all the guys in town he'd sucked off or bottomed for - it sure would have been more interesting that some of the het stuff Jamie was forced to endure.

for you R564 - Jamie Frame cruises for cock in the men's steam room

Wow, Jamie Goodwin pops up again

Bolger definitely should have been Jamie Frame. But JFP wanted to pretend she was producing NYPD BLUE, not AW, so Gabe he was.

John Bolger as Jamie Frame would have been perfect! What a great idea!

Jamie's absence was one of the many things wrong with the show in the final years.

Oh, this thread has been so....blissful these last few days

I'm impressed that we've been able to get a soap/P&G thread back to 550+ entries!

Back to Dano please. For someone who proclaimed herself as "fashionable" so often, why was she always so horribly dressed?

For r571-scroll down to see pics of Felicia. The bitch loved feather boas, shoulder pads and hats. She dressed like a drag Queen at all times.

Was there an episode where someone imagined Frankie as a baby?

Bolger is extremely nice and kind.

But Grant was one of a kind.

He could act. He was a man.

Sure, his face may not have been his best feature, but those cheekbones were glorious.

He could act circles around everyone and whenever a woman slapped him, he'd wince, hold his stance and say: "I understand you're upset, but I don't think now is the time to talk about this."

This would prompt the woman who just slapped him to work harder, make the scene better.

Grant Alexander made so much money on Guiding Light, that he has three houses in three different states, and paid for his wife entire law school tuition!

Dong.

As we near the end, who should our next query be about? Rosemary Prinz?

Good idea, R577. Thread has been created.

But let's enjoy the remaining 20 posts here in peace.

Here’s the TV movie The Cradle Will Fall which included several Guiding Light characters:

R580, It's insane that GL never brought back Hope or Claire after Maureen died.

Many feel that Maureen never should have been killed; as the show lost Beverlee, Sherry and Kimberley around this time, I wouldn't have lost her.

BUT the episodes were so powerful. If they were going to lose her then bring back Hope and put her in as the Bauer matriarch in training/waiting.

Claire comes home to be in Michelle's life; do a quadrangle with Holly, Fletcher, Ed and Claire -- revisit whether or not Fletcher was Michelle's birth father.

No. Instead we got Buzz Cooper. All that scenery chewing.

Claire did come back in 2000

Kinda rude nit to post the link to the next thread...

I saw that thread, r583. Rosemary Prinz was before my time, so I didn't know it was the latest P&G thread. Besides, let's take this thread to 600.

[quote]let's take this thread to 600.

Indeed. How often does that happen with a Midwestern Marvels thread?

You may or may not know this, but the original title for As the World Turns was As the Earth Turns. I'm glad they changed it. I dunno, "the world" just sounds a little more graceful than "the Earth." Although now I'm imagining other so-close-yet-so-far titles: The Directing Light, Another Planet, The Point of Night.

R583 I am the OP of the new thread.

I was trying to avoid its discovery by a certain unwelcome, uninvited parasite, but alas, they've already discovered it and told us how Vee is in the biz, you know.

No rudeness intended.

What’s this Soap Con thing Locher is doing on May 1st with cast members from The Doctors and As the World Turns?

I don't know who's behind the Soap Con piece. Obviously everyone's trying to see if money can be made.

Some of these people might be amenable to sitting on camera for an hour or two for a few hundred bucks, especially if they don't have to leave their house.

If I asked nicely, could her picture at the beginning be replaced with something less upsetting? The bitch won't go away and it ruins my Datalounge experience.

Hush R590 or I will push you off this rope bridge!

I can't replace the OPic, r591, but here's one [italic]avec boa[/italic].

Who is this Dano woman?

It's ME.

WE had the kind of love you'll never know.

R592 THANK YOU- so much better. She less favors a zombie with a shiny 'T' area.

Had a memory today of my late friend. The one I shared with veteran Marvelous Midwesterners.

The one that loved AW and used to call getting high "Visiting Miss Rachel" because it took him to Another World.

Oh, dear memories.

You are my wings, to another world ...

Bajour!

You are my way...

Good old days...

What a kick in the cunt.