So, why did Bette Midler and Ken Wahl hate each other? Was it because...

Just as I suspect the reason that Bette feuded with Shelley Long on the set of OUTRAGEOUS FORTUNE. Long was prettier than her. Bette has always been self-conscious about that.

Supposedly, she didn't get along with the director of "Jinxed!" either (Don Siegel).

From IMDB: [on working with Bette Midler in Jinxed! (1982)] I'd let my wife, children and animals starve before I'd subject myself to something like that again.

I think Ms. Midler has a reputation for being "difficult".

Besides, she was probably mad that Ken didn't want to fuck her.

Ken married one of the "Barbie Twins" so that will give you a clue to the type of woman he's attracted to, lol.

Ken Wahl was quite hunky in his day. Quite secretive about his personal life.

R3 Ken said he had to picture his dog in order to stomach kissing Bette (!)

Everybody she worked with is better looking then Bette Midler, including me

Didn't she fall out with super chilled Goldie Haen during First Wives Club?

It wasn’t HER. Ken Wahl was a raging homophobe. I don’t think he was a fan of Blacks or Jews either. There were several supporting and related quotes at the time. Bette shared a couple.

There is (or was) a scene where Ken Wahl had to slap Bette in the face. Apparently, he suggested to director Don Siegel that they could save on sound effects and he was willing to actually slap Bette in the face.

It sounded like a horror shot and given the film is a piece of shit clearly not worth all the angst it caused everyone involved in it went through.

Ken was doing BOTH the Barbie Twins at the same time and wouldn't share the spare with Bette..

Why did she hate Shelley Long?

Bette is a control freak. She mellowed some due to her husband, but she is still pretty much a control freak. Watch the time that Kathy Griffin did an episode of The D List (?) with her. It is clear that she was not happy anytime Kathy ad libbed or went off script.

Ken was everything Bette hated in a person: racist, homophobic, undisciplined, etc.

Oddly, she clashed with Shelly Long because they were so much alike. Both actresses need every sing second laid out. It was a battle of the control freaks.

I suppose part of Bette's talent is that she makes what she does look spontaneous when every second has been planned to an inch of its life.

Ken Wahl’s quote.

Ken Wahl could make me think bad things...

Bette mentions that it was “pretty rough” working with Shelley Long. Seems ol Bette has had frequent issues working with others.

It is also worth noting that Bette had a bad rep on The Stepford Wives. Again, this is probably because the film was in chaos and nobody could decided on the tone of the film. When Bette is surround by chaos, she only gets more rigid and controlling.

[quote]...he was prettier than Bette and she was jealous?

If that's her criterion, it explains her perpetual grimace. 95% of the world is prettier than that.

Ken has gorgeous blue eyes. Just stunning.

Wahl has always had the mindset of what we would now call a "Trumper". It's not a surprise he and Bette did not get along.

Ken has become a real recluse. There are no recent photos of him. He was looking bloated when he did the Wiseguy reunion movie over 25 years ago, he must look terrible now. I think he's a good guy, though. He's an advocate for Veterans and animal rights.

the clip at r16 is so odd. She says no she won't work with Long again and then sort of backtracks and says maybe they will. She must have caught how she was badmouthing a co-star and backtracked.

Bette had a much publicized "breakdown" as they were called back then around this time. I think it was right after she broke up with her manager/Svengali Aaron Russo and she was adrift on her own not knowing what to do.

On the commentary track of The Rose the director says after a few days of shooting and Russo interfering he took Bette aside and said Russo can get you a bigger trailer and frills like that. I can make sure you give a great performance and become a movie star. After that Russo was rarely on the set.

Gayest thread ever

I'm one of the few people who actually liked the movie. It's no masterpiece, but Bette is funny, there are some great lines, the kitty cat is adorable, and Ken is HOT HOT HOT! What a beauty he was! Too bad he had to fuck Rodney Dangerfield's girlfriend and fall down her stairs and break his neck. That's what ended his career.

Jimmy Caan was no fan of Bette, either.

[R25] I forgot about that! Bette never struck me as being a "stupid" woman. In her interviews she always seemed bright and witty.

[R25] "I like her...but I like my dog, too." And Ken Wahl had to think of his dog to get thru the kissing scenes...I see a pattern here. lol.

Bette is a cunt. That's why.

She's often been my kind of cunt, but that doesn't make her not a cunt.

Bette has a rep for being a grump on set in general -- except for "Down and Out..." where she was trying to redeem her unhireable reputation (Dreyfus and Nolte too). She said she would do whatever she was told on that one but that soon fell to the wayside.

Her best moment in "Jinxed" is being hit by the tumbleweed. Pretty perfect. There are other nice touches like her scene laughing about the dead guy with the stripper so not.a total loss (I hated that piece of shit "Outrageous Fortune" far more. Hated "Ruthless People" too. Disney Touchstone bullshit though "Big Business" at least has her cow dance and other great moments. Not sure she and Lily got along really either).

See 0:04 if you missed it. Wish the whole film was as good as that shot (and the trailer, for that matter).

Bronson Pinchot said Bette was a cunt to the first wives club director.

Woody Allen probably has some horror stories from having to work with her in [italic]Scenes From a Mall[/italic].

[quote] Bette has always been self-conscious about that.

She must feud with literally everyone then.

Ruthless People was hilarious.

She's always been difficult to work with.

But she sure puts on a great concert. I loved her Kiss My Brass tour.

Midler and Matthew Broderick were brought in very last minute on The Stepford Wives to replace John and Joan Cusack - it must have been a hellish production. I saw a preview screening before reshoots and the story made more sense at that point.

The Stepford Wives was an mess. They made it a comedy, of all things, and it was just awful.

Lily can be difficult herself, r29. Has Barbara Hershey ever commented on how they got along on Beaches?

i had a friend who worked for her production company and said she was miserable to be around.

Bette has feuded with most of her co-stars, so it seems reasonable to assume she's not easy to get along with.

Poor Jerry!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Bette and Shelley even fought over top billing. Bette ended up gtting top billing in the east and Sheeley in west including the billing on the prints. How Long got top in home video is a mystery.

West Coast

That poster of OUTRAGEOUS FORTUNE looks like THELMA & LOUISE if it were a comedy.

Apparently, there was another thread about this several years ago, lol.

R44 That poster reminds me of "The Goonies" poster-

Ken talks in some detail about Bette in this interview:

More about Bette here:

She was very unhappy while filming and took it out on everyone.

No one under 40 who Ken Wahl is. At least Bette has talent and can act, dance and sing. All Ken's done of significance since Wise Guy is marry a Barbie twin.

Mayim remembers...

[quote]No one under 40 who Ken Wahl is. At least Bette has talent and can act, dance and sing. All Ken's done of significance since Wise Guy is marry a Barbie twin.

He was contrite about saying it. He made it clear it was because she was mean, and from all accounts she was. Even the cinematographer got back at her by lighting her so badly she looked like a truck driver. It was supposed to be a comedy and was directed by Don Siegel and when he had a heart attack during production was replaced by Sam Peckinpah, two comedy giants.

R53 So, she remembers Beaches...but does she remember Ken Wahl? That is the question.

R52 In all fairness, he did break his neck in 1992.

Ken Wahl is a right wing cunt. That's good enough for me.

Dat ass on Ken, do! Here's some caps I made (a few from "Jinxed", most from "Wiseguy").

He's a bit of a flatsy Patsy, r58.

R59 Please! Just because it doesn't look like those shelf implants people sport these days doesn't make it flat. Plastic surgery really is skewing people's reality and something most can't live up to, naturally.

R25 She's stupid in terms of grey matter.

R59 - actually, I think he has quite a nice, plump ass. I would have expected people on DL to say it was "too fat".

I disagree, r62.

A lot of heterosexual men hate brassy, outspoken women. I've heard a number of them say they cannot stand Bette Midler.

Gay male here and I can't stand Bette anymore either. Hated her daily bitchfest on Twitter.

I salute R58 for curating a tastefully erotic gallery showcasing Wahl's denim-clad 80s ass.

I want to know what he looks like NOW.

Anybody know someone who works at the DMV in California? LOL.

The movie is actually fabulous. It’s campy as hell.

[quote]Gay male here and I can't stand Bette anymore either. Hated her daily bitchfest on Twitter.

And yet here you are at your daily bitchfest.

ive said it before on here i talked with someone who worked at her production company and the word mean kept coming up over and over. and production companies tend to be relatively low stress environments compared to a film set since the actor doesn't need to be there if they dont want to be

Here's a really cute, on-screen interview from 1982:

So, not surprisingly, Ken's favorite cast member to work with on "Jinxed!" was "Angus" the cat:

"While working on the movie "Jinxed!" with Bette Midler, I had the extreme pleasure and privilege to co-star with an adorable kitty, Angus. She always showed up on time, and never behaved like a Diva. She adopted me for the entire shoot! ........ Please join me in helping veterans suffering with PTSD by saving shelter pets and giving them as comfort/companion animals. I am not a fan of animals being used in movies. The reason I end up adopting all of them used in my movies"

He still looked good in 1996 (albeit heavier) for the Wiseguy TV movie. To me, the most startling change was his voice, which sounds completely different from less than a decade earlier. I wonder if his neck injury affected his vocal cords?

By 2004, he was apparently unrecognizable and refused to let Entertainment Weekly photograph him. Sounds like he aged quite a bit and put on a lot of weight.

[quote]The ”sexiest man on TV” rests in the back booth of a Los Angeles bar. He’s sitting with a vodka in one hand and holding his aching neck with the other. Somewhere behind the bushy goatee, disheveled black and gray hair, and many layers of extra weight hides Ken Wahl.

R74 ...and that's from 17 years ago! I figured his hair would be gray by now. I feel sorry for him. :-( I wonder if wifey forces him to eat a vegan diet? The poor guy probably sneaks out of the house every chance he can get for meatball subs...

In spite of the lack of chemistry between Ken & Bette, that seduction scene in Bonita's trailer is one of the sexiest fucking scenes I've ever seen in a movie.

It's too bad their relationship in the film was so unbelievable, though. I wonder what the movie would have been like if they'd cast Dolly Parton or somebody that you could actually believe Ken would be attracted to. Dolly didn't have Bette's acting chops or comedic timing, but she would have been cute in it.

[quote] I think he's a good guy, though. He's an advocate for Veterans and animal rights.

You’ve been informed repeatedly in this thread that he’s racist and homophobic! How does this translate to ‘good guy?’ He likes animals? Great! You know who ELSE liked animals...?

R77 "You've been informed repeatedly..."

...by whom? You? You are the only person privy to this information apparently, and unless I see/hear/read something credible that he is a racist/homophobe, I'm not just going to take your word for it.

R74 Regarding that article (or the only portion I was able to read), wasn't that "Ken Wahl isn't my real name" story debunked?

More caps of Ken's face and ass from Yankee Zephyr and Jinxed!

I think it was in a Rolling Stone interview that Bette said that the first thing Ken Wahl said to her when they met was "I hate ni**ers and faggots." Bette said it was weird because "it wasn't like we were going to have a lot of gay, black people around him."

R81 I'd love to read that article...It's hard to believe that she made those inflammatory claims and it's not on the internet anywhere.

I just found this NYT article that said Bette was planning on suing Ken for some of the comments he made to reporters about her:

Jinxed was Midler's followup to her Oscar-nominated role in The Rose, for which she was a Globe. The movie was a critical and commercial plot. Midler wouldn't do another feature for another three years. In 1986, she unleashed her comedic prowess in her one-two punch of Down and Out in Beverly Hills and Ruthless People. That would kick off another three hits with Outrageous Fortune, Big Business, and Beaches, in the following two years. Her run would end there with her failed Oscar bid doing the Stella remake. But, she'd get nominated for Oscar again with For the Boys, and enjoy a few more hits with Hocus Pocus and the smash First Wives Club, featuring the iconic ending scene.

Ken Wahl was not featured in any of these successes.

Coincidentally enough, his final effort on screen as an actor was the same year as Midler's last big hit, First Wives Club.

*won **flop

Why are DLers obsessed with his ugly dead ass?

R85, KW was part of a trend that betrayed viewer expectations -Keach, Vincent,Wahl.

My dad believed national inquirer gossip that Wahl turned into "a doper" during Wise Guy.

Our house boycotted so many shows because of "the dope."

In fact, I didn't have time to watch anything, but I had to hear Dad rehash all these sins of people I didn't know.

Now, I get to torture you. It gives me joy.

So, apparently Bette and Frank Oz didn't get along, either:

[quote] "Bette has been under a lot of stress lately. She not only has been filming a very large production, but she's had to finish her record BETTE MIDLER SINGS ROSEMARY CLOONEY. She's also been rehearsing for her tour. She made the mistake of bringing her stress on the set."

Sounds a lot like what happened on the set of "Jinxed!"

Including that photo of Nicole Kidman is just hateful.

I love Otto the old man that lives in the mineshaft and Nina the peep show girl.

R89 Yeah, there are a lot of great moments in the film. Not the disaster the press/critics would have you believe.

"You know that outfit you wouldn't be caught dead in, Harold? Well, guess what...THIS...IS...IT!"

R19 According to Ken's Twitter, his eyes are green. But they do read blue on film.

[quote]for which she was a Globe

She wasn't THAT chubby.

I wish I could find the original source for that Ken Wahl quote, all I can find is an old post on AGC on Usenet that says it comes from Bette Midler's "bio" but she didn't have an autobiography back then.

I did see him apparently say some racist stuff on Twitter when that fake abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell was in the news, then he complained that he wasn't racist, he was just pro-life. That was so long ago much of it's been deleted.

Apparently Bette is quoted as saying Ken Wahl told her the "I hate n-ggers" thing in the book Still Divine by Mark Bego, published 2003.

In the book, the source listed for the quote is a 1982 Rolling Stone article by Nancy Collins titled "Bette Midler: The Cheese-Bomb American Crapola Dream." It's apparently the December 1982 issue with Bette on the cover.

R81 is correct. Bette is more geigh than any of the posters on this thread. All the self-loathing kaweens here licking Ken Wahl’s boots are most likely Quisling Republicants anyway. Definitely Team Bette: a decades long record of supporting us.

I watched this for the first time recently. I always thought it was a zany comedy that just fell flat. But it's more of a drama with comedic elements. Looong sequences of pointless dialog and baffling action. And it goes on about a 1/2 hr. too long.

Bette doesn't know if she wants to be Judy Holiday or Mae West. She must have thought she was making a classic.

R94 That's a dead link. Ken is good friends with black actor Stan Shaw (they did a TV movie ",The Gladiator" together, as well as several episodes of Wiseguy), so I'm highly suspicious of any suggestion that he ever said "I hate n***ers".

Franky, Bette is so bitter, I wouldn't put it past her to make up quotes to smear someone she resents.

R93 I read Ken's Gosnell posts recently and I don't think any of Ken's posts are deleted. He sort of takes pride in never deleting his posts or blocking anyone. A lot of replies (by other people) have been deleted, but not his.

I didn't see anything "racist" in those posts- unless you think calling a black abortion doctor a "murderer" is racist. I don't. I'm pro-choice, but I'm horrified at what Gosnell did as well.

r97, it's just a link to a picture of the Rolling Stone issue in question. I gave you the source for the quote from Bette, if you have a problem with it, take it up with her, don't argue with me. All I did was find out where the quote came from. Not my problem if that upsets you.

Also, I didn't say Wahl's tweets were deleted, I have no idea if they were, I was referring to the old gossip articles and blog posts talking about what Wahl said. I think this tweet that basically says "hey black guy, don't you care that black babies were aborted?" is racist and dumb thing to say.

R99 The link didn't work for me, that's all. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just suspicious of the sources of Bette's quote.

I don't find that Gosnell tweet you posted to be racist, btw. I think it's a legitimate point that all the full-term infants that Gosnell killed were black. Those "black lives" should matter, too. It's monstrous what he did.

Rumor has it that Ken & Barbi are divorced and that she's living in FL with her mother, and he's remarried to an old high-school flame.

Comparison grammar folks.

Better Midler is NOT pretty. Therefore, no-one can be prettier than Bette Midler. Some of her co-stars were indeed handsome and pretty.

R102 Sez you, you fucking prick.

...my MOTHER thinks I'm pretty...

I get the impression Bette is pretty volatile, particularly early in her career. I’ve read the Shelly Long is almost in a Fay Dunaway category of difficult, so, who knows.

Here's the interview Ken did with Bob Costas in 1991, the year before his career-ending accident:

On the set the director and Wahl began addressing Midler as Miss Cunt. It was something the sensitive Bette found hard to deal with.

R106 If that's true, I don't blame her, because that would have been a nasty thing to do to her, regardless of HER behavior. But, I don't know how anyone would know that unless they were there, because I don't think Bette has ever stated that publicly.

Not sure if you're still here r100 but I found a copy of the Rolling Stone in question, and Midler definitely said that Ken Wahl said, "I hate niggers and faggots."

Wow. Then Ken must really hate niggers who are faggots.

R108 Wow, that is intense. What an asshole he was.

Oy. Men don't age well.

The Barbi twin he may or may not be married to said that wasn't him.

If this was him 25 years ago (in 1996) then I can't imagine he's looking too great these days.

I can't find the actual Rolling Stone interview that goes along with R108's image, the best I could do is a celebrity gossip book that references quotes.

Bette also said he had a “skinhead mentality.”

[quote]The first thing he said to me on the set [of the film Jinxed] was, “I want you to know, I hate n***ers and fa***ts.” I had no idea why he said that, because we had neither of those in our picture. - Bette Midler

[quote][Ken Wahl] is such an angry man, so full of bile… [with] a skinhead mentality. - Bette Midler

And a random quote from someone else:

[quote]Kevin Spacey was playing a crime chieftain named Mel Profitt on Wiseguy. Ken Wahl, the star of the series, took an instant loathing of him for no reason. Wahl’s antagonism was much commented on by the cast and crew, and soon, all over town. Wahl disliked most actors, but he hated Spacey. - Actor Ron Vawter (Philadelphia)

* * * * *

[quote]Ken is good friends with black actor Stan Shaw (they did a TV movie ",The Gladiator" together, as well as several episodes of Wiseguy), so I'm highly suspicious of any suggestion that he ever said "I hate n***ers".

Right, just like, “I can’t be racist, I have a black friend” and “look at my African American over here…” You're funny, R97.

r114, just stop. I posted a photo of the actual interview in the actual Rolling Stone magazine. Don't give me this "well I can't find it" junk, I found it FOR you.

Just stop what, R115? R114 was my first comment in this thread.

Rolling Stone archives a lot of their articles, Bette was the cover story which means a long feature story so I was looking for a text link to the full article to accompany the photo.

This is such an odd thing to quibble about, R115, life is too short to be so easily bothered.

Anyone remember this PSA from the '90s?

Would she be pissed if we threw away copies of JINXED and FOR THE BOYS on the highway?

I must say, I have seen Jinxed once or twice, and the thing I remember is Bette's song in the beginning of the movie. It was a country-western song with hoop-de-doo lyrics. I looked on youtube and cannot find it, but it is a hoot!

R118 "Cowgirl's Dream" I think it's called. I like it too.

Thank you, R108, that's very interesting. I had no idea they were thinking of letting him go and that he knew about it-- that would explain some of the animosity.

She's right-- he does "photograph beautifully" but I definitely would not have called him "chubby" back in those days.

R14 Is it a BAD thing to dislike Kevin Spacey?! Maybe he was picking up on some perv vibes...

Here's an interesting interview with Bob Costas from 1991:

Sorry... the above was meant for R114 ^^^

I’m just so shocked that Bette and Ken didn’t get along. I’ve always found the passionate heat between them in this picture to be palpable. I was certain that they were in love during the filming. I’d like to think I’ve got more of a gift of discernment than to be completely wrong.

R123 Not sure if you're being facetious, but I do think the trailer scene was very, very hot. You have to give credit to both of them for being able to pull that off. The anger/animosity between them may have helped the scene along a bit-- like an "angry sex" kind of deal, lol.

But, I think in general they didn't have much chemistry and their relationship was not believable.

[quote]R14 Is it a BAD thing to dislike Kevin Spacey?!

The Kevin Spacey part isn't what was interesting to me, it's what he said before that that stood out to me:

[quote]Wahl disliked most actors,

R125 Well, apparently he got along quite will with Ray Sharkey, but Ken has made it no secret that he finds most showbiz-types to be phony assholes, and I can't really fault him for that. He didn't like all of the shmoozing and bullshitting that is part of the Hollywood game.

R121 In every interview I've ever heard/seen, he seems quite articulate, including that one. He did another interview in 1991 but with Jay Leno, and apparently, it didn't go as well as the Costas interview since Leno later called him a "a pain in the ass" and his "least favorite guest":

R114 Kathleen Beller supposedly said that Ken asked her what kind of cologne she wanted him to wear so he'd smell good during their kissing scene in Ft. Apache.

Doesn't even sound like the same person.

I think the bottom line is-- Bette had the hots for him and picked him for the movie partly in the hopes she could bed him. Ken wouldn't fuck her her with somebody else's dick. End of story.

Sigh. That's not him, R111.

R112 And he's not married to the Zombi twin anymore, thank God.

R116, the photo I posted of the article at r108 is part of the text of the article you were looking for.

I'm not sure why you're saying the article can't be found. Just because it's not in an online archive doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It does.

I have absolutely no idea (nor do I care) how often you've posted in this thread, but there have been people in this and the other Ken Wahl thread who have said the quote is fake because they can't find it.

He did get "chubby" later, but not when he filmed "Jinxed!"

These are some promo shots for the film-- I don't know if these are from a deleted scene or what, but he didn't play baseball in the final cut:

(1 of 2)

(2 of 2)

I worked with Bette a few times once on a movie and one for a charity gig. She is tough and does not suffer fools. She is also sweet funny and caring. Her problem was she was gaining stardom at time when women were not allowed to be tough and forward and say what they wanted out loud. Whal didn't like she was the star, Caan didn't like she was a strong woman, both men are Republicans go figure. I have worked with male stars who were giant pains in the ass. I would work with Bette anyday again. You don't have to guess with her. If she is pissed you will know it.

R108 Somebody here said that she also claimed that he tried to strangle her during one of their arguments. Was that from another interview?

It sounds like every man that worked with Bette on film HATED her!!!

R135 It seems like every woman who worked with Bette hated her, too.

I'd like to get Bette & Ken alone in a room together so they could hash out some of this stuff. It almost happened once on twitter. Ken was baiting her, but she didn't go for it.

R114 So, Stan Shaw is an idiot? Why would he be friends with a racist?

Why is Ken so angry? Does he have a small penis?

R108 Ooooo! What a BRUTE!

Catch me, I think I'm going to faint...

Does Bette have any friends besides her plastic surgeon?

I literally have never heard her mention having a friend.

She was friendly with Barry Manilow. Until she reworked an album of Peggy Lee covers they had produced. I saw her talk about it in an interview, and it was sad.

R142 I think Barry was her piano player going back to her bath-house days.

Did she manage to alienate him somehow?

I still don't understand why Shelley Long would get better billing than Bette Midler.

Bette Midler in 1987: Had already won a Grammy, a special Tony and an Emmy. Hit music albums, stage shows, tours, TV specials. Nominated for Best Actress Oscar. Previous two films before Outrageous Fortune, Down & Out in Beverly Hills and Ruthless People were both big hits.

Shelley Long in 1987: known for Emmy Award winning role on hit sitcom Cheers. Previous film The Money Hit was a hit.

Also: Shelley Long plays EVERY role EXACTLY the same. All variations of Diane Chambers.

[quote] literally have never heard her mention having a friend.

She has sung about 'Friends' her whole life. It's one of her best songs!

[quote]If this was him 25 years ago (in 1996) then I can't imagine he's looking too great these days.

Probably not, R113. Although, he was shot up with cortizone when that movie was made.

Shelly long was great in her own mind and she had people around her who told her so. Cut to her doing Steve Guttenberg movies two years later.

When she's not passing judgement on Gays being able to marry, this Jewess isn't exactly known for getting along with...well anybody.

R115 = The 'JUST STOP' TROLL

So very effective on an anonymous msg board.