TURANDOT, the Movie

[quote] A collaborative historical-fantasy film, cast and financed between China, France, and U.S.,

Oh, dear.

And SJWs and Black actors will shriek about the absence of "diversity" in 4 . . .3 . . .2 . . .

Is this the opera that includes Nessun Dorma?

R3 Yes.

Simply the best!

R4 Thank you. OP, are the actors singing or being dubbed by professionals?

Is it a film of the opera or a dramatic film based on the story? I would guess the latter as opera films don't generate that much boxoffice. There was a film of Tristan and Isolde with James Franco in 2006 that had nothing to do with the opera.

Also watching actors who don't sing trying to lip synch opera just looks silly, especially since there are opera singers who are quite decent looking to cast. It's not like Sprouse is a huge star.

R3/R7 alas, it is not an operatic nor even musical film. It is merely retelling of the story in the form of a fantasy adventure film.

Pity, I was so looking forward to the bright sweeping spinto of Dylan.

Taking the glorious opera out of consideration for a moment; the folktale character of Calaf is kind of a little bitch, isn’t he? He’s willing to put an entire city to death, because he’s got the hots for a Princess he doesn’t even know who won’t put out. He bluffs and bullshits his way through the entire story, risking lives left and right. Not a great hero, and unworthy of the transcendent aria written for him.

R5 Luciano Pavarotti’s version, while popularized, is not the best version. Pavarotti was a lyrical tenor, so heroic roles like Calaf was a bit of a stretch for him vocally. Calaf calls for dramatic tenor or even a spinto tenor. Dramatic tenors like Franco Corelli could give roles like Calaf their proper musical heft. Dramatic tenors have more powerful voice and could sing darker, lower pitch than lyrical to tenors like Pavarotti. They’re more like baritones who could also sing high notes.

Compare this rendition of Nessum Dorma sung by Corellu, in a role that he was famous and much lauded for. It didn’t hirt that he was also strikingly handsome and tall fir a tenor at 6 feet tall. Compare his singing of this aria to Pavarotti and you’ll notice the difference.

It's about the Turan Department of Transportaion.

R10 fascinating, thanks. You really can tell the difference vocally, in terms of character.

For me, ‘Nessun Dorma’ is forever associated with FIFA Italia ‘90, and therefore Pavarotti. I think it’s the same way for many people, especially those unfamiliar with any other opera music or performers. It’s not that he’s the best to ever sing, just that’s he’s nostalgically treasured.

What is universally touching about Luciano is his spirit and emotion when performing, and his underdog story, more than his skill or power. He came from nothing, and wanted to bring opera to the masses.

One last post on Corelli who was called the Prince of Tenors because he looked and sounded like one. But yeah, Calaf in Turandot was literally HIS role because he was associated with it, many still consider him the greatest Calaf.

R12 yes, lyric tenors are known for bringing beauty to lyrics and melody with the way their phrasing and smaller though more (some say) beautiful voice. But that’s what’s great about opera, different vocal types excel at different roles. Pavarotti was known as a great Rodolfo in La Boheme, that’s where his lyrical tenor voice truly shines.

Back to the film, we have no trailer or release date yet, but there are some stills from the set.

Here’s Dylan behind-the-scenes, looking quite handsome in his costume.

Agree that tenors like Corelli, Del Monaco, and Bergonzi were better suited to Calaf than Pavarotti, but even Luciano was better than some others who did the role like Jose Carreras, who had No Business trying to sing it and wrecked his voice doing roles like Calaf and Radames.

Not to be judgmental, but....how could anyone think for a moment that this new movie would be a film of the opera with actors like Dylan Sprouse, Sophie Marceau, Vincent Perez, and Guan Xiagong lip-syncing to the voices of opera singers singing in Italian?

I'll bet this thing will be as lousy as that Tristan movie with Franco.

What I like about Pavarotti ‘s version (in concerts) is that he holds that last note and you can see the effort on his face, his eyes are practically vibrating. When he’s finished, there’s a slight grimace and then he he closes his eyes but his mouth is still open like he’s catching his breath and he’s ecstatic that, once more, he made it without cracking.

R15, Bergonzi's voice was every bit as lyrical as Pavarotti's, no more heroic or dramatic than that. I'm surprised you would lump Bergonzi in with Corelli and Del Monaco. But I agree with you about Carreras :-(

R16 because it’s funny to imagine? I don’t believe anyone seriously thought this would be an operatic movie.

I’m actually enjoying the parallel discussion about the legit opera. I’m learning so much.

R17 it probably will be dreadful, but we like Dylan Sprouse far more than James Franco, so we probably ought to give it a chance.

Here he is in a different costume, this time in armour! Wonder which scene that is for...

R18 exactly! With Pavarotti the appeal is the meta, the passionate struggle of his own story rather than that of the character. Of course, that makes him an inferior actor and character-singer, but it does make him universally understandable on an emotional level.

I love that no matter what else they did, the people photoshopping the promo photo of Calaf couldn’t (or didn’t) disguise Dylan’s signature eyebags, or his moles (oh, sorry, beauty marks). And the orange pancake they used on his face is very uncanny, and kind of unnecessary given his complexion (not the Yellow Skin Troll, before you say it; just pointing it out).

His fine lines are all gone, though. Suppose that makes sense for someone playing a young prince. He looks about eighteen, regardless.

R20, as per some of the questions above, some people actually thought this might be a film of the opera.

I think it's fine for Calaf to be played by Dylan Sprouse, as his character is supposed to be an unknown prince, and he could be from some foreign land beyond China. But according to the story of the opera, he is supposed to be Asian. I'm sure Sprouse was cast for international appeal, but I wonder, given the crazy times we're living in, if there will be objections to his casting.

This is a cool still, super heroic and mythic. Think it’s from Dylan’s SnapChat.

He really suits an indigo cape.

Yes r21. It would be distracting within an opera but in concert, the audience is rooting for him to hit that high note.

I wonder how Nessun Dorma became the theme song for the World Cup that year.

R18 except opera or good opera isn’t about visibly straining to sing through an aria. Onstage in a full length opera performance the tenor would get booed off the stage in the old days in Italy. What they’re aiming for is drama but not drama between you fighting your own vocal cords. In recent years I’ve seen truly awful tenors trying to sing the role of Calaf. Sometimes they’ll get polite applause but that’s it. I wish I was born decades earlier so i could see the great ones live. Pavarotti praised Corelli to the hilt, saying he had a voice of steel and the greatest ever. Domingo said he was the most impressive tenor he’d seen live in performance.

R25 the aria is about Calaf declaring (prematurely)victory over Turandot, the cold and cruel princess who had sent suitors to their deaths for guessing her riddle wrong. Guess it right you get to marry her. Calaf says fuck yeah I’ll take the challenge and I will win. As such, the aria is about overcoming obstacles to victory, saying you’re going to win means you WILL win. That’s my guess as to why it was used.

[quote] Sprouse was cast for international appeal, but I wonder, given the crazy times we're living in, if there will be objections to his casting.

R23 yes, I’m wondering that, too. I agree with you that Sprouse is perfectly apt casting, as Calaf can really be from anywhere. If anything, a cross-racial romance between a white Western Calaf & a Chinese Turandot should please SJWs, right?

Expect they’ll cut the characters Ping, Pang & Pong. Or, at least change their names. It’s a bit Rogers & Hammerstein.

There’s a great DVD of a production conducted by Mehta outdoors in Beijing with a cast of hundreds.

After Calaf correctly answers Turandot’s riddle, Turandot tries to back out of her end of the deal. Calaf then offers her a way out by asking her to find out his name before dawn. If she does then he’ll volunteer to die instead of marrying her. That is when Nessun Dorma comes on, none shall sleep as Turandot declares, until we find out the Calaf’s name.

R21 and R25, sorry, but your comments about Pavarotti singing "Nessun dorma" are quite ridiculous. And by the way, I'm sure a lot of people who love Pavarotti's singing love it without knowing anything about "the passionate struggle of his own story." For heaven's sake, we're not talking about Andrea Bocelli here.

Both Tristan and Turandot are based on classic sources that long predate the operas.

R30 ok, you know the most about opera. We heard you. Your posts have been very informative, and you clearly know your stuff. No-one’s coming for your plastic crown. There’s need to flex on us.

Why say ‘sorry’? You aren’t. You intended to be a prick about someone’s opinion on a subjective topic, someone who is a novice and clearly wants to know and learn more.

Way to win friends and influence people.

Naturally, I was first choice for Princess Turandot. They begged me to take the role, actually.

Of course, I’m way too busy—overbooked, really— and couldn’t possibly do it. And it would hardly have been fair of me to outshine Dylan by my mere presence, when he worked so hard to get this job. So, considerate and conscientious as my legend suggests, I bowed out gracefully.

Still, gives me tingles to think of my darling dearest brother looking so ruggedly handsome and fiercely warrior-like. Can’t wait to stream!

Can’t we get an Olsen twin to play the Princess?

[quote]Expect they’ll cut the characters Ping, Pang & Pong. Or, at least change their names.

Yes, if they do keep those characters, I HIGHLY doubt they'll keep those names :-)

R32 hope you’re not confusing me with other posters but I never try to be snarky when educating newbie opera fans. I’ve done so with many of my friends who knew nothing about opera but are now regular opera goers.

R32, I used the word "sorry" because I am sorry that people feel it necessary to express uninformed opinions, such as "With Pavarotti the appeal is the meta, the passionate struggle of his own story rather than that of the character" or "It would be distracting within an opera but in concert, the audience is rooting for him to hit that high note." As if that man with that voice would have had less appeal as an opera singer if he had come from a wealthy, privileged family, or as if Pavarotti in his prime had ever had to struggle to hit high notes -- especially not the high note in "Nessun dorma," which isn't even a C. Yes, all opinions are subjective to one degree or another, but uninformed opinions are worth a lot less than informed ones (in my opinion).

R37 it always bugs me to no end as an opera fan, that one of the greatest arias of all time, Nessun Dorma, is known as Pavarotti’s song. It’s lamentable because the essence of the aria is not there in its entirety the way he sings it. It’s subjective but not really. It’s one of the most dramatic arias in one of the most heroic roles in tenor repertory. Yet it is most well-known aria by virtue of being sung by a lyric tenor in a sweet, lyrical way, contrary to its very essence. It’s akin to people praising Olive Garden’s marinara sauce as the best ever, without tasting authentic, truly great marinara sauce. If you know about marinara sauce it would bug you to no end. But I guess we have to be grateful that Carreras did not draw the straw to sing Nessun Dorma, I shiver to think about it. It could be worse I guess, than Pavarotti’s straining yet sweet Nessun Dorma.

R38, in my opinion, although of course Pavarotti's voice was lighter and more lyrical than the voices of Corelli of Del Monaco, for example, it still had plenty of excitement in it, and also a wonderfully heroic sound because his voice had so much "ping" to it. A voice does not have to be huge to be exciting, though a huge voice is exciting in its own way. But also, I'm afraid your comment that Pavarotti "strained" when he sang "Nessun dorma" makes me guess that you don't know as much about operatic singing as you think you do. Until I came upon this thread, I never read or heard of anyone describing any of his performances of that aria as "strained."

Why’s a white guy playing Calaf? Isn’t he supposed to be Persian?

I saw Pavarotti at the MET near the end of his career. That voice was stunning just pinging all over the place. No wonder he was an operatic superstar

R40 they could have cast Zayn Malik. He technically counts as sort of a Persian descendant, right?

Also, R38: Off the top of my head, the ONLY two tenors I can think of who sang "Nessun dorma" as well as or arguably better than Pavarotti were Corelli and possibly Lanza. Every other recording or live performance of the aria that I have heard has been wanting in some way(s) -- the legato in the more lyrical passages, the lower notes towards the beginning of the aria, the shadings of the dynamics, the shaping of the climaxes, how free and exciting the high note sounds, etc. So although I agree that it's wrong to think of the aria as "Pavarotti's song" without experiencing other performances, I do think his performances of the aria were among the very, very best, and I consider myself privileged to have heard him sing it live as well as on record. (By the way, I think there's general agreement that his best recorded performance of the aria was the first one, on the complete recording of TURANDOT with Sutherland in the title role and Mehta conducting.)

R43, MARY!!

Nothing will ever outdo the Met's production by Franco Zeffirelli for making jaws drop.

[quote]Why’s a white guy playing Calaf? Isn’t he supposed to be Persian?

No, the Prince of Persia is the one who's beheaded early in the story. Calaf is the son of the former king of the Tartars. You can look that up to see what it means, as I did :-)

(3) Yes and I am so sick of hearing that aria. (Nessun Dorma)

The opera queens in this thread with no clue who Dylan Sprouse is are the best.

Tell us about LA TRAVIATA and LUCIA next.

[quote] the Prince of Persia is the one who's beheaded early in the story

Nooo! The ship sunk before it even left the harbour!

[quote] And the orange pancake they used on his face is very uncanny, and kind of unnecessary given his complexion

His natural white complexion?

Whuddevah...

Poll time...

R39 I meant straining to his face not his voice at the 2006 Olympics. And he sang it standing stationary. The voice held quite well for someone who would die a year later. No one is disputing the greatness of Pavarotti or that only bigger voices are great. He did also benefit from media and popularization of opera in the 80s.

Anyone who knows about classical vocal training even at the novice level such as myself (my aunt was an opera singer in the chorus, I took piano and voice lessons from her) knows there are subtleties of phrasing as well as vocal qualities. A great tenor voice could range from a big voice with metallic tone to ability to slice it down to gentle pianissimo. Like the linked clip, cut to the 2:15 mark.

Pavarotti, I saw him in La Boheme with SF Opera, I think I was 9 years old; it was in the late ‘80s. I saw him in concert twice later on. I think later in his career as his weight problem became evident, he developed a habit of standing stationary instead of moving around the stage, which detracted from his performance. He was already doing that when I saw him in Tosca at the Met in ‘99. I was living in Brooklyn at the time and begged for ticket as my birthday gift. Like I said, I wish I could’ve seen the great ones including at their peak and be able to appreciate it. I’m 40 which makes me one of the younger opera fans, though that is changing with more companies actively recruiting younger fans.

As for white dude playing Calaf, that’s appropriate because Calaf is of Tataric origin. His father Timur, was a deposed Tatar king of unspecified place. But Timur is definitely a Tataric name, which would put Calaf into the Turkic caucasian category. You know who else was of Tatar origin? Nureyev, and he looked Caucasian because he was one. There’s always arguments about Asiatic genes of Tatars, with historical mixing of Mongolian genes.

[quote] couldn’t (or didn’t) disguise Dylan’s signature eyebags, or his moles (oh, sorry, beauty marks).

The DL Mole Patrol does not like Dylan or his brother.

Thanks, R55. That’s very interesting, and it’s refreshing to have some real solid factual historical information for once.

R53 Well, I have to say it. Giacomo Puccini was a genius.

He knew how to do drama. And he knew how get terrific climaxes; Nessun Dorma and the climax to Tosca Act 1 are superb climaxes of voice, big orchestra and big drama.

Will Dylan show dong? Let’s hope it’s not cold that day.

R59 lmao I don’t think it’s that kind of folktale

Tur an dot.

It's a film about Asia? We have to have a white male hero or the Americans won't go " Crazy Rich Asians"? Don't bother me with facts.

Nesshun dorma--none schall shleep!

Maybe I can play the Empressh!

[quote] But Timur is definitely a Tataric name, which would put Calaf into the Turkic caucasian category.

Doesn't sound white to me

[quote] I wonder how Nessun Dorma became the theme song for the World Cup that year.

Well, it was held in Italy, and most football fans aren’t culture-hounds, so the simple equivalence of ‘opera=Italy’ made enough sense for the English audiovisual editors. I’m sure it was flattering to the hosts, too.

This has been in ‘post-production’ since 2018. How come?

Considering the pandemic, I get not releasing it now. But why didn’t it come out in late-2019, when it was in the can, edited and finished?