Is this it for Joss Whedon?

I don't see how anyone could hire him. They'd be opening themselves up for a hell of liability.

No, he will be fine.

A lot of directors are assholes. It takes a certain personality type to want total control over a big creative project like a movie, and that type isn't pleasant a lot of the times.

Wasn’t he already canceled a while ago? I can’t keep track anymore.

Joss Whedon? Or Joss Stone? WHET Joss Stone??!

Oh please, who hasn’t had a miserable boss at least once in their life? For me it was the most valuable experience of my career. I now know what I won’t tolerate and am no longer afraid to speak up for myself.

Now all the "feminists'" on twitter are trying to get him "cancelled". They can't bare the idea that a man created a female icon and almost nobody has hear of any of their work.

Amber Benson backs up Charisma on twitter, calling the Buffy set a ‘toxic environment’. People on DL Buffy threads have been saying this for ages.

Glad she's speaking out. There were a ton of rumors about this situation during Charisma's final seasons on Angel. It was clear that something was going on. Whedon basically corrupted the character of Cordelia when she tried standing up to him. He ruined that character, and the show.

And r5, having a "miserable" boss is not some badge of honor. The kind of abuse and degradation Charisma suffered under him is inexcusable. It. Is. Abuse. It's inhumane. It's wrong.

Amber Benson was bullied relentlessly by Alyson Hannigan, who was good friends with Joss.

Always beware of straight men who loudly proclaim themselves to be feminists.

No sex-related allegations, so maybe not.

[quote]And [R5], having a "miserable" boss is not some badge of honor. The kind of abuse and degradation Charisma suffered under him is inexcusable. It. Is. Abuse. It's inhumane. It's wrong.

This is Datalounge. It's never a white man's fault.

R12, you’re right. The amount of support Donals Trump got on this site was alarming.

R6, men have complained about him too. You're just a right-wing loser looking to bash feminism

[quote]Amber Benson was bullied relentlessly by Alyson Hannigan

The one thing everyone seems to agree on about Buddy. Why didn't Alyson just tell Joss that she didn't want to play gay?

R5, asking an employee if she's going to keep her baby goes far beyond "miserable boss" territory. The part about ridiculing her beliefs and accusing her of sabotaging the show heavily implies he was criticising her for not having an abortion. Completely unprofessional.

bUt jOsS iS a fEmInIsT

We all knew he was fucking anorectics with the bodies of 13 year old boys (Amy, Summer) so it is no shock a real woman like Charisma would be labeled and bullied as "fat."

Was he really fucking Summer Glau?

R19 and Amy Acker.

SMG is distancing herself from Whedon (in Comic Sans, which is unforgivable):

R21 Not that surprised, Joss and Sarah were not on good terms when the show ended.

Whedon gave Carpenter lead status in two series, the best jobs she's had, by a huge margin.

And what does SMG have to say about this?

R23 Well he gave her a side role in Buffy, she was originally up for the lead but was passed over for SMG, when it came to Angel it was David Greenwalt who demanded that she be part of that show as he enjoyed writing for the character. Once he left after season 3, Joss had a heavier influence and that's when Charisma told him about the pregnancy.

Charisma says that she's kept silent about all of this until now but...

Didn't she speak up about this a long time ago? I swear I've heard her talk about all of this stuff, including him basically telling her to Abort the baby and threatening her constantly.

R21 that seems like a cowardly out for SMG.

Yeah the whole mess has been talked about for at least 15 years now but I think she's framing it differently. Before she didn't really blame Joss and felt nervous about even hinting at blaming him and this let him off the hook, plus a lot has changed in the industry over the last 5 years, now she is blaming him for the shit he put her through and is scared of him. I remember another rumor was she had been fired at the end of season 4 because the network wanted Spike for season 5 and they couldn't afford both the actors, so fired Charisma.

It might be. My friends who were into Buffy thought he hung the moon because he was so enlightened and such a progressive feminist. Some were already devastated when his wife divorced him and it came out he was cheating with a Buffy actress. I think this might just finish them off.

This is what happens when you make your brand "I'm better than the other guys."

[quote]bUt jOsS iS a fEmInIsT

I always thought this was a funny notion considering that if people were paying attention most of the time, it was still a man that saved the day.

Think back to all of the finales and count how many of them where it wasn't actually Buffy that saved the World but it was basically because Xander did something to save the day or enable Buffy to do what needed to be done.

I bought Joss's whole feminism schtick but I was pretty young when I came across his work, as time went on I noticed he seemed to use it more as thing to get in with feminist's and have them deflect any criticism, such as killing off a lesbian or having the central female character almost raped.

I never got into Buffy... but I did like the campy film.

Joss is done. James Marsters did speak about complaining to a female exec, rumored to be Marti Noxon, that he was uncomfortable with the rape storyline and the audience wouldn't accept Spike afterwards, this was all ignored as the exec based it on her own actions and James tried to explain that a man raping a woman is different to a woman trying to rape a man.

[quote] that seems like a cowardly out for SMG.

Maybe her experience with Joss didn't match the magnitude of what happened with Charisma, Amber, Nicholas Brendon and james Marsters. It's better to just address it, give her support and move on. When Ray Fisher first tweeted his allegations Alan Tudyk retweeted it and said that he has known Joss for 17 years and can't imagine those things happening, which drew the ire of many. She gave a carefully worded statement and kept it pushing. That's the best thing to do rather than make ominous statements like Michelle Trachtenberg.

If he never works again, he's fine. Already loaded.

[quote]James Marsters did speak about complaining to a female exec, rumored to be Marti Noxon, that he was uncomfortable with the rape storyline and the audience wouldn't accept Spike afterwards, this was all ignored as the exec based it on her own actions and James tried to explain that a man raping a woman is different to a woman trying to rape a man.

Now, this I remember. He heavily disagreed with the rape plotline as someone in his life had been raped. He pleaded with Joss and Marti to not do it and they refused. He claims having to do that scene sent him to therapy.

"having the central female character almost raped"

As mentioned above, the rape storyline came from Marti Noxon. She bragged about it in interviews, how it was based on her experience, it was very odd even back then.

I do wonder how Marvel are going to react to this. He doesn't work with them anymore but his Avengers were extremely successful, the first one took the studio to a whole new level. The actors had nothing but good things to say about him, Scar Jo even said he was the only person she trusted with a Black Widow solo until he left Marvel.

I don't think James Marsters will say anything, given his own creepy behavior towards Michelle. And other young Buffy fans he met at Buffy cons.

R42 Creepy behavior towards Michelle?

Here you go, r43.

Okay I'm just catching up on all this Tea....and yikes.

Joss had affairs with actresses...??

I assumed he lusted after and then hated Charisma because of the shitty character assassination of Cordy in Angel S4...but he banged Amy A? AND Firefly's Summer G?

Someone please point to where this was all explained....

Seriously, R19???

Did you think she was cast based on her talent?

[quote] Okay I'm just catching up on all this Tea

Stop with the tea shit already.

R44 Thanks. That's a weird song to write and I've always felt a weird vibe from Marsters.

[quote]As mentioned above, the rape storyline came from Marti Noxon. She bragged about it in interviews, how it was based on her experience, it was very odd even back then.

Doesn't matter much if it was her storyline, he okayed it and let he show run with it.

[quote]Someone please point to where this was all explained....

You have that right. It has been slipping out over the years. He's been MeTooed before but I think this time it's going to stick.

[quote]Someone please point to where this was all explained....

People assumed Joss had affairs with Summer Glau and Amy Acker based on his ex-wife's 2017 OP-Ed for The Wrap.

[quote]Stop with the tea shit already.

But it's piping hot!

His daddy wrote several episodes of [italic]The Golden Girls[/italic]. The episode where Rose's dentist sexually harassed her was not one of them.

[quote]bUt jOsS iS a fEmInIsT

Where were all of you shouting "but feminism" when I made a Disney movie? I could have used you then.

Also, his lead actresses always got dangerously skinny when working on his shows. Sarah was a ghost of her former self by season 7 of Buffy, and Eliza Dushku was painfully thin on Dollhouse. Summer and Amy are, as someone put it upthread, built like 12-year-old boys. Aly Hannigan, another of his favorites (though I don't know if he banged her), was also quite waiflike as a young woman. Puts his calling 126-pound, 4-months pregnant Charisma 'fat' into a whole new light.

You know sometimes this shit really sucks. Can you be a successful and really talented director or writer or whatever without being a complete cunt about everything? Is that fucking possible, Hollywood? Seriously, what is this shit and why does it come up over and over and over again?

R36 and yet they did accept Spike afterwards. He became a series favorite.

R37 whether or not her own experience was the same, there's no way she didn't witness or know about it. She doesn't go out of her way to back the claims of others just says that she believes in standing by victims.

And I say this as someone who generally likes SMG.

Has Fran Kranz chimed in?!

Joss Whedon's idea of feminism (in addition to using it as a way into women's pants) is just that you can have an anorexic-looking woman beating up men.

That's it.

So is that why the original Willow was fired? Because she was fat?

There's plenty of stuff to say about Alyson Hannigan, but the zaftig Willow had no screen presence at all.

Is there anybody who got out of the Buffy set unscathed? I mean, it's been a minute since Nicholas Brendon was drunk in public...

I was a big Buffy nerd back in the day, and it kind of sucks that the set was so toxic and everyone was so miserable. Still love the show though and think he did some great work.

At least Charisma is explicitly saying the things he did to her unlike that guy from last summer who still won’t give details. Michelle Trachtenberg is awful cryptic. It sounds like he was an asshole who wanted things done his way and pit has actors against each other for fun. I like the idea of all workplace assholes being called out if it’s valid.

[quote]Is there anybody who got out of the Buffy set unscathed?

I'm quite happy!

R61 Anthony Head seems to be about the only one, maybe because he was older he didn't have time for the onset bullshit.

Would Whedon have pulled this shit on the Avengers set? That cast was too populated by established actors compared to one of his TV series where the actors would've had less agency.

[quote]Maybe her experience with Joss didn't match the magnitude of what happened with Charisma, Amber, Nicholas Brendon and james Marsters.

She was #1 on the Call Sheet. I'm sure it was very different.

Was Whedon also fucking Hannigan?

If the wife writing that he had MULTIPLE affairs during their marriage doesn't prove it's a man's world, nothing can. If Joss Whedon can get laid, everybody can.

He'll be fine. He will write under a pseudonym, but won't be allowed to direct for a long while.

I don't know why anyone would be clamoring for his writing. His stuff all sounds the same. In terms of dialogue and tone, his Avengers sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the series. His writing for Black Widow is especially bad. No surprise he has her describing herself as a monster because she's both a badass AND barren.

I think Sarah supported Charisma as much as she could without diving headfirst into the controversy. She said straight out that she doesn't really want to get involved with this, but she also said that she doesn't want to be identified with Joss and she stands with the victims of harassment. I think that's about as much as she could say without seeing headlines everywhere blaring "Buffy was Abused by Series Creator.'

Has Gal Gadot commented?

I never got the impression that Sarah and Charisma were particularly close so I was shocked that she even said that much R70.

[quote]Has Gal Gadot commented?

Gal commented on the Ray situation.

"I’m happy for Ray to go out and speak his truth," said Gadot. "I wasn’t there with the guys when they shot with Joss Whedon — I had my own experience with [him], which wasn’t the best one, but I took care of it there and when it happened. I took it to the higher-ups and they took care of it. But I’m happy for Ray to go up and say his truth."

What's interesting is everyone was more than happy to come back for those reunion photoshoots a few years ago, none of this abuse stopped them from the small payday.

R74 not really a surprise. Most of them can't get work.

Calling an actress who wears a size double zero and consumes 850 calories a day "fat" is literal violence.

R75 Emma Caulfield is in Wandavision but it's a smaller part.

No, because not many people know who Charisma Carpenter is any longer.

God, you really have to be tough and cold to endure and thrive in that rotten business we call show.

I suppose one of the most fucked up things I've ever heard a showrunner plan was from Joss. Had Firefly continued small hints of Inara having a virus were to be dropped, she would have a sort of sci-fi HIV. Inara would have been kidnapped by the ravagers, Mal would turn up and find the entire ship full of dead ravagers, he would then find Inara beaten and bruised but still alive, the implication was she had been raped by all of the ravagers and they had died from the fast acting space HIV as a consequence.

Every interview I've seen of Whedon he comes off like a smug prick.

[quote]It. Is. Abuse.

Oooooh, whenever someone does that “period after every word” thing, you know their logic is unassailable and the assertion is ipso facto true.

Charisma Carpenter sounds like someone you’d have in to help you expand your closet space.

R78 she gets pretty bristly if you bring up her Buffy days too.

[quote]but won't be allowed to direct for a long while.

Didn't Ultron & the Justice League reshoots pretty much cement that already?

You know he fucked the actress who played Inara she's said to be a HUGE fame whoring bitch!

Being a shitty, or even a nasty boss is not a crime.

What's with all the whining? If you don't like your boss, kick him in the cunt and quit!

yeah, sure, r87, that's totally realistic in 90% of cases. Here's another idea: don't be a complete cunt just because you are a boss.

I'm not a boss, r88, nor any of the other fantasies you have of me, but thanks!

didn't think you were actually r89. It was more a general statement. sorry for any confusion.

R89 Pretty sure r88 wasn't speaking of [italic]you[/italic] specifically.

The tattoo was an issue for continuity but he made it personal. Whedon needed to tell the make-up artists and costume designers to keep her tattoo hidden, not be nasty and personal about it by directly confronting her.

[quote]At least Charisma is explicitly saying the things he did to her unlike that guy from last summer who still won’t give details.

Perhaps her example will give him the courage to make specific allegations twenty years later.

R80, I'd heard that Inara was meant to have a terminal illness, but not THAT part. But if she had fast-acting space!HIV, how would the ravagers have died before she did?

David Boreanaz wouldn't talk about Angel or the Buffyverse for years. I wonder what Joss did to him.

Alyson Hannigan hasn't said anything yet and rumors have been that she was one of the worst offenders on set next to Joss.

R94 The small clues dropped, I think one made it into the existing episodes, was going to be her injecting herself with the medicine needed to keep her alive. I read the endgame plan for her was to die from it in season 2 when the medicine started to fail.

Responses from Emma Caulfield (Anya) and one of SMG's stunt doubles:

R93 if he was afraid of speaking out because of the impact on his career he wouldn’t have already done so last summer. He already did the thing that might hurt his career so might as well give up the details now

Clare Kramer (Glory):

Firefly had a weird thing with rape, that episode with the bounty hunter he just randomly asks Kaylee if shes ever been raped and then ties her up.

When Angel ended and fans wanted to come up with a Save Our Show campaign Boreanaz demurred on that. He was fine with it ending. And at the time of it ending either J. August Richards or Alexis Denisof - I can't recall which one - told a gossip blogger working on the show was like being a soldier ; that the cast has formed bonds because of the experience but that doesn't mean they want to keep fighting a war.

When Angel ended there was plans for TV movies that would continue the stories of some of the characters, one was planned to feature Spike and Willow teaming up but for whatever reason none were ever aired. Then there was that British spinoff Ripper, that was meant to air on the BBC, but it never happened either.

Seriously, how unpleasant must this man have been on the Buffy set for so much of the cast to publicly turn on him? By my count, Amber Benson, Michelle Trachtenberg and Clare Kramer have already backed up Charisma's version of events in the last few hours. Emma Caulfield has "liked" all their posts, so she's on their side. SMG has distanced herself from him. Even if they were worried about being cancelled for siding with him over Charisma, they could easily just have stayed silent. He must have been an absolute nightmare to work with, given how little loyalty he's inspired (even taking into account how fickle celebrities can be).

[quote]By my count, Amber Benson, Michelle Trachtenberg and Clare Kramer have already backed up Charisma's version of events in the last few hours. Emma Caulfield has "liked" all their posts, so she's on their side. SMG has distanced herself from him. Even if they were worried about being cancelled for siding with him over Charisma, they could easily just have stayed silent.

And, it's notable who has been silent so far...Hannigan, Amy Acker - interesting given all the rumors about them.

Alexis Denisof is married to Hannigan, so I wouldn't necessarily expect him to pipe up either.

What are some of the rumors about Hannigan's behavior on Buffy?

R106, a mean girl, a bully, and a host of other things.

With hindsight, the fact that the major villains in Firefly (Early the bounty hunter) and Serenity (the Operativer) were both dark-skinned black men would definitely not fly today. Somewhat surprised they got away with that even in the 2000s, actually.

I absolutely love BtVS and Angel. I believe Joss is an utter shitbag. I am really impressed with Charisma for speaking up finally. When all this happened everyone suspected at least in part what was going on but it wasn't exactly a time that women could speak out like this.

Anya has a wicked reputation for freaking out if people bring up BtVS, I look at that differently now with her support for Charisma.

[quote]But if she had fast-acting space!HIV, how would the ravagers have died before she did?

She was a space prostitute and the "disease" would pass from her to her johns via intercourse.

If they got rough or refused to pay, she'd "activate" it (don't ask me how) and it would instantly kill them.

Uhm....yeah.

I see, R110. It's quite a fucked-up concept.

I'm almost glad firefly ended before it could really get started, I dread to think how bad and miserable it would've become, especially judging by the planned storylines, I think Rivers brother was another character that was going to be killed off eventually. So no doubt Kaylee and Mal would've slept together out of pain, despite the obvious brother/sister like relationship between the pair.

He fucked me, too!

You just known Boreanaz is itching to lay into Whedon but I'm wondering if he is on a tight leash at CBS.

I'd be interested to hear Richards take on it. He was deeply closeted while on the show.

Why would Boreanaz want to lay into Whedon? Isn't he also problematic and a cheating cheater?

Whedon really fucked Boreanaz over on pay and residuals.

The best villain in the show was Clare Kramer by far. And after Marti Noxon took over and brought in the "magic is a drug" storyline it lost all charm and was just grisly. The season where Buffy was pulled out of heaven and reformed was painful (with the exception of the musical episode). Was downhill from then on.

Trachtenberg really seems like a child still. Isn't she in her forties now?

^ she's 35

R119 good lord. Either way, she seems stunted mentally.

She was one of the most disliked characters in Buffy. Buffy's Will Wheaton.

But she was so watchable, R120!

R2 is delusional. Whedon is permanently done. SMG and Trachtenberg going on the record are the final nails in the coffin. Finished.

R122 has spoken everyone! Let's go home!

Getting SMG to comment as she did was fairly telling since she has stayed very quiet over the years.

She and Freddie Prinze Jr. seem to have found a quiet niche out of the direct spotlight, but still able to do parts here and there.

I expect Boreanaz will keep his mouth shut. He's a known asshole to the "little people" on set. No idea if he's ever me too'd, but he was sexting his mistress while his wife was in labor, so wouldn't be a shocker.

I appreciate people like Charisma and Amber who actually say things. Vague BS like Ray and Michelle...spill or shut up.

YAAAAAAWWWWWNNNNN R123.

R124 Freddie can next be seen as Punky Brewster's Ex on the revival!

r126 I agree. Charisma laid out all the receipts. And the effects that what he did to her.

I thought Michelle's response was eye-rolling. Almost drama queen-ish.

[quote]What's interesting is everyone was more than happy to come back for those reunion photoshoots a few years ago, none of this abuse stopped them from the small payday.

Doesn't mean much, R74. Buffy was the biggest thing any of them have ever done and it went beyond Joss. SMG put it best when she said she's happy to be associated with the character of Buffy but not Joss.

[quote]Being a shitty, or even a nasty boss is not a crime.

Actually a boss calling their pregnant employee fat would get them reprimanded or fired. While it often seems as if it has been the case in the past, there shouldn't be one set of rules for directors and people in entertainment and another for Susan who works for Tim in Accounting.

Also we can't forget about Hunter Tylo's landmark pregnancy case. That's probably why Joss didn't fire Charisma until after she had the baby. She could have sued his ass if he did it during her pregnancy or when she announced she was pregnant.

[quote]not really a surprise. Most of them can't get work.

[quote] Emma Caulfield is in Wandavision but it's a smaller part.

Emma Caulfield's part in WandaVision was one she was asked to keep secret until the day the show debuted because her role in the Marvel Universe is much bigger than the show is letting on. It's not just a run of the mill "smaller" role. It's an introduction. I can see why she generally wants to stay out of all of this but still felt the need to at least say something. (She'll likely be appearing in Doctor Strange after this.)

R61 about Nick...there's a reason he went from 2 arrests in 5 years to 5 arrests in 2 years. He has his demons and his issues and he ended up with a "manager" that enabled his worst behavior, ie, getting drugs for him.

This thread weirdly inspired me to start watching Buffy again, and goddamn, it is a nearly perfect show. Joss, you cunt, stop being a cunt, even in retrospect!

I think Whedon is done after this. Too many scandals too quickly, and he's alienated his core fanbase.

Good riddance.

Michelle seems a bit...yeah. From last year.

Kudos to SMG for getting the name right. Joss Stone or Will Wheaton could've lost their shifts at Starbucks.

Michelle Trachtenberg has a bad case of former child star syndrome. They often have a hard time in their adult years because they never really had a childhood. At least she seems sober.

R136 she also doesn't seem to have any lasting friendships from any of the movies or shows she's been on, with the exception of SMG. That's...odd.

Weren’t they on All My Children at the same time? They’ve known each other longer.

R137, That's not odd. They were her coworkers and she was a child for most of her career surrounded by adults. She is also still friends with Leighton Meester.

R138, Yup, and they kept in touch after SMG left the show. It's part of the reason why she got the role of Dawn in Buffy. SMG invited her to the set to hang out, she met Joss and when he create the role she got a call.

The biggest mistake she made careerwise was turning down Bella Swan in Twilight. The director had plans to cast her previously in another project that didn't work out then tried to call her in for that.

R139 most of her early career was Nickelodeon stuff with other kids. I'm not saying she should be best friends with everyone, but you'd think she'd pick up more than ONE.

She seems like a very sensitive person, as evidenced by today and R134. If she'd been the face of Twilight, the pressure from that psychotic fanbase would probably have killed her.

She’s not much of an actress but maybe she could have been better than Kristen Stewart’s stuttering version of acting.

Was Alyson Hanigan equally awful on How I Met Your Mother?

[quote] I thought Michelle's response was eye-rolling. Almost drama queen-ish.

It seems exactly like what Dawn would say.

Both Michelle Trachtenberg and Dawn are an abomination in the eyes of the Lord.

[quote]most of her early career was Nickelodeon stuff with other kids.

R140, Not really. She did 14 episodes of The Adventures of Pete & Pete. That's about it. Other than All My Children, she didn't do any long running shows until Buffy and most of her appearances on other shows were one offs. She did Inspector Gadget and Harriet the Spy when she was like 10. She also did a Bronson Pinchot sitcom that was cancelled.

I know it seems like she did more as a child actress but she didn't. She was often the kid of an adult character, not a kid on a show full of kids.

Fuck him for that awful Firefly theme song alone.

R131 luckily “Go Fish” exists to prove to posterity that he was fuckable for about 10 minutes in 1998.

It would be interesting to see if any of the Firefly actresses, say Christina Hendricks, have something to say.

R148 she was in 2 episodes. I'm sure she has bigger fish to fry in her eyes

What a horrible (future) storyline for Inara! Who would Mal (Joss's stand-in) have insulted/lusted after after she kicked off from Space AIDS? No way Zoe would have thrown him a fuck. Kaylee? That poor child. She might have known engines but seemed borderline retarded.

Thank God it only had that partial season.

Man, this is disheartening to read about. I really like Amy Acker. Surprised to hear that she and Whedon may have been a thing. She's been in a bunch of his shows. You'd think she wouldn't do that if he is as awful as everyone says.

R151 why wouldn't she? No one else was casting her.

Time to toss this book I guess

[quote] It would be interesting to see if any of the Firefly actresses, say Christina Hendricks, have something to say.

He called me “full figured”. Rude!

AWKWARD timing

Like someone said, avengers was filled with already big enough names that he couldn't bully them or intimidate them. He didn't really have the power to do so. Avengers 2 apparently was a mess behind the scenes. Marvel let whedon do whatever he wanted hence why it was a mess. It's why they don't give directors full freedom anymore. They ain't letting their prized franchise get fucked over for some big ego.

I don’t think this will be the end for Joss. He was shitty boss just like many other people in showbiz. A James Cameron filmset is a nightmare, he still works though. Same with David Fincher, same with David O. Russell who got into a physical fight with Clooney on the set.

[quote][R124] Freddie can next be seen as Punky Brewster's Ex on the revival!

He got fired from Nancy Drew as Nancy’s dad and replaced by Scott Wolf. I wonder what happened.

David Boreanaz likes to go nude on set. He would flash all his female costars and do the helicopter. I don’t think he will say anything about Joss.

Alyson Hannigan will not say anything because she saw what happened with Lea Michele after she tried to support BLM. If she comes out with an anti-bullying tweet to support Chaturbate and Amber, the fans will tear her to shreds for being such a hypocrite since she was the biggest bully.

Buffy is one of my favorite shows and means a lot to me. I watched it when it came out in the 90s and watched it again last year during the lockdown. It got me through some rough times in my life and for that I will always be grateful.

As a Buffy nerd, I used to be involved in the online fandom and the motto back then was: In Joss we trust. For 20+ years we were told by many Buffy actors and producers/writers what an honor it was to work for Joss, what a genius he was and how they would follow anywhere.

So now to read all these comments and stories about him and what a monster he was is kinda jarring. And very disappointing.

R142 Hannigan was great on HIMYM. YMMV with that show, but it was pretty well written and acted, very funny. With the exception of Josh Radnor as Ted, who was unfortunately annoying as the main character.

Re: Whedon. This all sounds like a case of “My boss was an asshole” and yet it’s being treated like a Harvey Weinstein type of deal, what with everyone “speaking my truth” and the “I stand with so and so” hashtags. Go to Human Resources. These people are all members of a union (or multiple unions in some cases) that have lawyers and procedures to advocate for their members. The breathlessly disgorged stuff being shared on Twitter seems not particularly noteworthy. Millions of people deal with asshole bosses and rude coworkers every day. And while that sucks, no one has some kind of Constitutional right to never feel bad, or never feel upset, or to be guaranteed to love their bosses. Build a bridge and get over it, C-listers.

A lot of what Cordy says doesn’t sound that bad. She got a rosary tattoo on her wrist without telling anyone, which completely fucks up continuity on the show. The makeup people would have to constantly apply makeup on her wrist to cover it up or they would have to use expensive digital effects if that failed. That one was on her.

Getting pregnant messes up the show’s continuity too. Of course Joss would get mad that his carefully planned out season would have to be scrapped. He shouldn’t have taken it out on her but any writer would be annoyed that their planned story arc would have to be completely thrown away and rewritten.

And the 1AM call times that she said was retaliation for her. Hundreds of people work on these sets and have to be at those call times. All of those people had to rework their schedule just as punishment for one person?? Or maybe the call time wasn’t about her.

Boreanaz didn't want to talk about the Buffyverse because he was embarrassed and wanted it to remain a footnote. That's pretty obvious if you've seen an interview. He's two things: Smug and entitled. Emma C and Whedon didn't get along AT ALL.

I think Seth is really the only person from the show that SMG still talks to but they were friends since they were fetuses.

[Quote] And at the time of it ending either J. August Richards or Alexis Denisof - I can't recall which one - told a gossip blogger working on the show was like being a soldier ; that the cast has formed bonds because of the experience but that doesn't mean they want to keep fighting a war.

Must have been J because Alexis continued to work with Joss after Angel ended.

R157 None of those directors built their reputation as the soft-spoken, enlightened feminist who is filled with such respect for women that he is compelled to create strong female characters so he doesn't overflow with wokeness.

On the contrary, they've all had reputations as hardass bully boys from virtually day one. It's not so much the behavior as it is the total upending of expectations.

SMG pulled 18 hour days for seven years so i’m not shocked in the slightest that she wasn’t super tight with most from the cast. People project weird shit onto actors; film sets are all-business and if you’re fucking around you’ll be screamed at or replaced.

I doubt Alyson or her husband will come out against Joss. They used to go to Joss' house on the weekend to read Shakespeare like they were the fucking Barrymores.

I've never heard of him.

[quote]David Boreanaz likes to go nude on set. He would flash all his female costars and do the helicopter.

Jesus, people will believe anything.

It's odd that Alyson is so close with Whedon when either he pit her against Amber Benson to cause and fuel their feud or pushed Amber on her to play Willow's love interest.

[quote]At least Charisma is explicitly saying the things he did to her unlike that guy from last summer who still won’t give details

Ray Fisher has backbone. He took it to Warner Bros and his union, ie he did the right thing to deal with it through the appropriate channels and hasn't taken it to the court of public opinion nor has he sold his story to a tabloid. He's told the public quite a lot but there's no need to not believe him because he hasn't posted a Google Sheet link of every itemised wrongdoing he suffered.

[quote]I think Sarah supported Charisma as much as she could without diving headfirst into the controversy. She said straight out that she doesn't really want to get involved with this, but she also said that she doesn't want to be identified with Joss and she stands with the victims of harassment. I think that's about as much as she could say without seeing headlines everywhere blaring "Buffy was Abused by Series Creator.'

Meh. She knew what was going down and doesn't want the stink on her.

Sarah Michelle Gellar is one of the most unpleasant people I have met, but she's a stickler at the same time. She values her professional reputation and I have no doubt she overlooked a whole bunch of shit because she wants to be known as a team player rather than a diva.

I get your point, r166. Maybe Ryan Murphy is a better example? Why is he not canceled for all the shit that went down on the Glee set?

[quote]Maybe Ryan Murphy is a better example? Why is he not canceled for all the shit that went down on the Glee set?

Because he’s worth a lot of money to Netflix so he’s protected.

None of these people get taken down until they’re already on the decline. A 1999 Weinstein or a 2010 Weinstein would’ve never been subject to such an expose, because he was making someone money. He still had a significant amount of clout. Same with Cosby in the 80s— you just couldn’t do it.

R173 tell us more, tell us more

R170...ME TOO!

[quote] Sarah Michelle Gellar is one of the most unpleasant people I have met, but she's a stickler at the same time.

Details, please?

If Fisher wanted to keep it out of the court of public opinion, why make vague comments? Can't have it both ways.

R179 and saying he wouldn't work for DC while Hamada still has a job. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT

I've read Gellar was awful to extras.

What is so awkward at the interview at R155?

R181 sure you don't mean Lauren Graham? That was epic

R182 it came out the day before yesterday, so the awkward is timing. And the journalists makeup...but that's another topic.

Sarah Michelle Gellar seems rather cold and controlling, but that doesn't mean Joss didn't do her wrong. He frequently slagged off her film work in interviews (calling Cruel Intentions 'porny,') and felt she was ungrateful for everything he did for her career. I wonder if that translates as, "she won't kiss my ass and literally suck my dick because I gave her the role of Buffy." He's a creepy abuser of women like many Hollywood bigshots, but unlike most of them, he built his career on being a feminist. That makes him even worse than Michael Bay or Brett Ratner in my opinion. At least they never pretended to be defenders and promoters of women's interests the way Joss did.

R185 the long rumor, from back in the forum days, is that Sarah and Joss both thought the other didn't give them enough credit for the show's success.

[Quote]Getting pregnant messes up the show’s continuity too. Of course Joss would get mad that his carefully planned out season would have to be scrapped. He shouldn’t have taken it out on her but any writer would be annoyed that their planned story arc would have to be completely thrown away and rewritten.

To quote David Fury, "Charisma felt that everyone got angry at her over her pregnancy, and she's not wrong."

She has talked about this in length before. She did try to tell Joss was pregnant over the summer. She couldn't get through to him. Her agent told someone else associated with the show and that person was finally able to reach Joss and tell him. Joss then called her about it. From her perspective, she'd been with her partner for years, she was in her 30s and the people she'd worked with for seven years were upset & absolutely not supportive of it.

On one hand she said she had compassion for them because she knew how hard it was to reorganize things around it. On the other hand, Seth Green left the show entirely when they weren't prepared for him to leave and they wrote around it. They got over it because it brought the Tara storyline.

Being upset about her pregnancy is one thing, calling her fat when she's pregnant and 126 pounds, ignoring her doctor's orders putting herself or her child's life in danger and then asking her if she was going to "keep it" is crossing a line. She was far from the first or last actress to become pregnant during the run of a show.

[quote]Maybe Ryan Murphy is a better example? Why is he not canceled for all the shit that went down on the Glee set?

Why would he be cancelled? Most of the problems were between cast members. His problem was being too friendly with them, as he put it and then getting upset if there was an issue between two of them because of it. He owned his mistakes. Ryan has said that set taught him what not to do when running a show. If he were a Joss level asshole it would have leaked out by now. It hasn't. Nothing that anyone is saying about Joss is brand new information. So maybe he really did learn.

[quote]Sarah Michelle Gellar is one of the most unpleasant people I have met, but she's a stickler at the same time.

I was told she was very "professional." Your description of her is exactly what I witnessed in person. She's nice if you speak to her but if you're working with her then she is very "professional." Her response was exactly what I expected but hey, it works. No one expected an enormous outpouring of love from that one.

In another life I worked with SMG on two different projects. She is not warm and fuzzy to most people, but she is so goddamned professional that I have never seen anything quite like it. She knew her lines, she knew everyone else's lines, she knew her blocking and was on time and never complained on set. She was thankful to crew and even sent thank you notes. But I cannot stress enough, she was respectful of the crew's time, which is huge.

I know nothing about her on Buffy or anything about her personal life, but those are just my two experiences with her.

R188 that was my impression of her (but I only worked near her for a few hours) and what I've always heard. She's not there to make friends, she's there to get her work done.

What R188 is all that anyone should ever expect. You don't have to be best buddies with the people you work with as long as you respect the time and effort of your coworkers. I don't blame her for not wanting to go to Joss's house to read Shakespeare on weekends. She's already spending 100 hours a week with those people--I'd want my Sundays to myself, too.

*What R188 said is all that

[quote]R5 Oh please, who hasn’t had a miserable boss at least once in their life? For me it was the most valuable experience of my career. I now know what I won’t tolerate and am no longer afraid to speak up for myself.

I see White Male Privilege has chimed in.

“Everyone needs to just [italic]pull themselves up!”[/italic]

Alyson Hannigan has made a statement.

[quote]I too have been too busy trying to survive a pandemic and staying alive but I just wanted to take some time out of my schedule to comment on what’s been going on the past few days. I stand behind my dear friends Charisma Carpenter and Amber Bensin. No one should have to endure the abuse they put up with. Bullying in the workplace needs to end now! #timesup #Istandwithcharismacarpenter #Istandwithamberbenson

Did that bitch really misspell Amber Benson's name?

R193 fake

[quote] Did that bitch really misspell Amber Benson's name?

People are speculating she did it on purpose as a passive aggressive dig at Amber. She hated that bitch with a passion.

Regardless of the shade she is co-signing their statements.

Not seeing Alyson's "statement" anywhere. It's nowhere on her socials. Don't just believe everything people.

By all the accounts I've heard, Alyson bullied Amber so badly (with Joss backing Alyson up) that Amber refused to come back and finish the Tara/Willow arc. If true, Alyson is the last person who should be calling out bullying, especially since she didn't even have the grace to take 5 seconds and Google the proper spelling of Amber's name.

Alyson kicked Amber in the cunt and then shit in her wig.

Yep. Whedon is dunzo. Byeeeee

Tara was supposed to appear to Willow as her torment by the First Evil but Amber said fuck you bitch and they had to use some random character Willow gets killed in an earlier episode.

r193 is satire. It's making fun of Sarah's statement.

Critical thinking is dead.

R59

Exactly.

He's too into the skinny schoolgirl giggling and then beating guys up...but really wanting the rapist/murderer to bang her.

It's the whole "you're secretly a naughty girl, arent you?" thing.

Gross.

For guys like Whedon it's more like "I'm an empowered woman! ... please, fuck me you stud!".

I'm waiting to hear what Julie Benz has to say. She and Carpenter are very close.

So disappointed in Amy Acker if she banged Joss. Really liked her on Angel.

Why was Lorne the mind-reading demon never actually gay in the show, but more than just coded?

Joss seemed fine with Willow felating Tara......Lorne couldn't get so much as a kiss from a guy in five seasons?

R207 Another that Alyson tried to bully, but Benz put up more of a fight than Amber did from what I read.

What does it mean that Alyson bullied them? She called them fat? Glared? Ate the last laxative?

Actually it was said that Benz was a bully to Hannigan

Drusilla bulled Benz who in turn bullied Hannigan who in turn bullied Benson who in turn bullied Trackenberg who in turn bullied Brendon who in turn bullied Caulfield who in turn bullied Head. Abuse begets abuse. It all starts somewhere. Only Sarah Michelle stayed above it all.

Michelle Trachtenberg is supposed to be a professional writer? A period. after. every. word....

I wonder now if Benz really bullied Hannigan or if she was just refusing to take Hannigan's shit.

Sarah and Alyson were close during the first season or 2 of Buffy. When Sarah first hosted SNL, she held up a sign at the end of the night that said "Feel better, Aly" (she must have had a cold or something). I'm not sure when those two fell out, but it was clear in the later seasons that while Buffy and Willow were still supposed to be good friends, the chemistry between the actresses was ice-cold.

It's pretty disgusting that the thirty-something Whedon and Marsters were both perving on 15-year-old Michelle Trachtenberg. And they wonder why showbiz kids are fucked up.

Anthony Stewart Head weighs in, says he had no idea that this behavior was going on.

If?! IF people went through these experiences? Way to not believe women, Head!

[quote] she held up a sign at the end of the night that said "Feel better, Aly" (she must have had a cold or something).

Maybe she had COVID.

Anthony Stewart Head was already old and a seasoned professional by the time he was on the show. His family was back in the UK and he probably just did his job and didn’t get too involved.

So Michelle is accusing Joss of sexually assaulting or harassing her when she was a teen? He’s definitely done

R219 she's being super vague and twitterati are taking it to the worst possible implication. Given how protective Sarah was of her and her own feelings towards Joss, if there was anything like that, she would've cut his balls off.

No way was Whedon going to abuse or harass an actress in front of an older, self-possessed man like ASH. That's not the way creeps like Whedon work. Even Charisma said that the conversation about her pregnancy took place behind closed doors.

Sarah wouldn't have: How could she? What she could do is what she did: Separate herself from the toxic situation as much as she could and GTFO when her second contract was up.

[quote]Why was Lorne the mind-reading demon never actually gay in the show, but more than just coded?

Because Whedon has a REAAAAAAL problem with gay men.

Which is why Xander was never gay, although there was more canonical support for that than in the first few seasons than there was for Willow going lesbian in college.

I mean, I'm racking my brain to come up with a gay character that was ever more than a one- or two-off in any of his work. There are some coded characters here and there, and the show he created for (and was subsequently fired from) HBOMax, The Nevers, has a pansexual male character, but that's it.

I assumed it was canon that one of the three nerds was gay (in-show, not only in real life).

Buffy ended in 2003. Network TV wasn't exactly a great place for us anywhere.

R225, Andrew/Tom Lenk's character (one of the nerds) wasn't just coded as gay and didn't just occasionally make a flirty line or two towards another male character but Joss admitted that Andrew was intentionally gay. They made the decision when they hired Tom to play him.

He's a white, hetero man, so no, not over.

Michelle's super vagueness has the Twitter idiots saying he raped her as a child. I highly doubt that as every other accusation is of verbal/mental abuse and if he raped a child, I think the other ladies would be coming down harder. If he did...fucking hell.

[quote][R225], Andrew/Tom Lenk's character (one of the nerds) wasn't just coded as gay and didn't just occasionally make a flirty line or two towards another male character but Joss admitted that Andrew was intentionally gay. They made the decision when they hired Tom to play him.

Except they never actually said it out loud on the show. Indeed, when he appeared in an episode of Angel S5, they ended the episode with Andrew going out to party with a group of women.

I'm really glad this is coming out now and not back then because tween me was a complete Buffy freak. I would've been in full meltdown, like some of the loons on Twitter.

R230 He. Did. The. Worst. Thing. Imaginable! The truth. Will come. Out!!! LITERALLY THE WORST. I. Cannot. Believe. I survived!!

I really, really hope Michelle Trachtenberg just means that Joss was cruel to her, and the inappropriate behaviour was not sexual. I'd much rather believe he was just a dick rather than a sexual predator. She was on the show between the ages of fourteen and seventeen.

R235 Stop imagining less worse things!! Or are you calling Michelle a LIAR?!!!

R234 I should not have laughed at that. But I did.

She posted this "sweet gift from Joss" on Instagram 6 months ago. I'd like to imagine if he did the "worst. thing. imaginable." she wouldn't be posting fond memories on Instagram.

If she only means he was mean to her, while that’s not a great look for a grown man and a teenage girl, she’s still being overdramatic about it. She’s definitely implying some sort of sexual impropriety though

What if Joss and Borneaz double-teamed her, while SMG watched and smoked cigars?!

[quote]She posted this "sweet gift from Joss" on Instagram 6 months ago. I'd like to imagine if he did the "worst. thing. imaginable." she wouldn't be posting fond memories on Instagram.

She also added to that post "Please stop making a special gift from Joss Whedon to a 14 year old me anything other than it is." By that she's seemingly saying that he wasn't being tawdry or preying on her, but her comment on SMG posts says otherwise.

R241 that was because she was posting something about Harry Potter and people were giving her shit for "supporting JK Rowling"

R242 people on social media have to pretend they hate Harry Potter now? That’s hilarious

R239 if I had to bet, I'd say he made some lewd or body-shaming comments. Still, very bad from a grown man to his teenage employee, but hardly the "worst. thing. imaginable."

Vagueness never helps.

[quote]Except they never actually said it out loud on the show. Indeed, when he appeared in an episode of Angel S5, they ended the episode with Andrew going out to party with a group of women.

R231, that was an accident and that scene was originally meant for Michelle Tractenberg.

Whedon actually commented on it:

[quote]"It has to be said: the Andrew scene in 'The Girl in Question' was a victim of me dropping the ball. I specifically said there should be a party of men AND women, all glamorous and Italian, waiting for Andrew. I wasn't there when it was shot, and didn't have the time/money/energy to change it after the fact, though it made me crazy. Andrew's sexuality is always on the cusp of self-awareness because Andrew is stunted emotionally and because it's hilarious." [...] "The 'people change' thing is a hold-over from the fact that the scene was originally written for Dawn (but Michelle turned us down). The idea was, there's little Dawn, then in the last scene there's hot grown-up Dawn going out on the town, a heavy visual support of people changing (since Spike and Angel always see her as older brothers do)."

But Andrew was always meant to be gay.

[italic] Everything is so fragile. There's so much conflict, so much pain...you keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize this is it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along--that weird, unbearable delight that's actual happy--I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone. [/italic]

[quote]But Andrew was always meant to be gay.

Meant to or not, he was never gay on screen. Doesn't matter their intent.

Eliza Dushku posted on Instagram. Says she supports Charisma even though she herself was not treated like that.

Dushku's statement was much better than Gellar's.

I suppose though that a lot of that might have to do with Dushku's own harassment and abuse on other sets.

Vox really sums up how Whedon's feminist credentials have unravelled over the last 15 years.

Gellar's statement screams "yes, I support you, but PLEASE leave me out of this conversation."

Feminist, schmeminist. I bet he doesn't even know the words to "I Am Woman, Hear Me Roar."

Eliza Dushku, Summer Glau, and Amy Acker look like sisters. You could even slot SMG in there when she was younger and had darker hair. Joss certainly has a type.

R247, in the final season of Angel, they brought back Andrew, and made him obnoxiously heterosexual. So...

[quote] Dushku went on to say that "neglecting to 'name' the power/gender/sexual/racial abuse epidemic in the entertainment industry (and for that matter society in general), enables the abusers and only emboldens and ultimately fortifies abusive systems."

Honey, if that’s your idea of naming something, I suggest you go back to the drawing board.

Whedon wasn't stupid enough to bully SMG.

One, you don't bully your star because it could kill your hit show but also because the star has clout and can go to the network/studio and have your ass on the carpet.

Also, I think SMG and her mom wouldn't have put up with it.

So much I've read about Whedon over the years clearly portrays him as an ass but the other thing to consider is the fact bullies of any kind tend to go after people easy to victimize. Doesn't make it right of course but those prone to victimization can also look around and figure out that in many situations, you can learn to better defend yourself against the bullshit bullies put out.

Charisma's mentor and protector was David Greenwalt. He loved the Cordelia character and was very fond of Charisma. He also understood the world of AtS much better than Joss did--the spin-off was Greenwalt's baby. He left as executive producer after Season 3 due to a contract dispute, and the show was never the same afterward. Had Greenwalt still been a significant part of AtS in Season 4, Joss could never have gotten away with treating Charisma or her character like he did.

By the way, it was Joss's arrogance that got Angel canceled after the fifth season. He demanded an early renewal which forced executives to make an early call before the fall schedule was firmed up, and they ended up canceling the show. According to co-producer David Fury AND James Marsters, had Joss simply waited, Angel would have gotten a sixth season.

R257 I mean, when you're planning out story arcs and you're a popular hitmaker (which he was at the time) wouldn't you want to know if you need to wrap up or lay groundwork for more story?

It's a luxury you don't get if your show is on the bubble. Better to wait, hope for renewal, and write yourself out of whatever corner you wrote yourself into next season if the show is picked up. Shows do that all the time. It's easier than normal with a fantasy show.

The only thing I "miss" from an Angel S6 was not getting more Illyria

[quote]By the way, it was Joss's arrogance that got Angel canceled after the fifth season. He demanded an early renewal which forced executives to make an early call before the fall schedule was firmed up, and they ended up canceling the show. According to co-producer David Fury AND James Marsters, had Joss simply waited, Angel would have gotten a sixth season.

Wasn't that the year that UPN and the WB merged, though? A lot of shows that would have otherwise survived (Everwood, in particular) didn't.

R261 no that was a couple years later. And it's funny that they call it a merger. The CW is basically the WB, programming-wise.

It was a little more equal when things started. They kept a few UPN shows, most notably Veronica Mars. But yeah, I think there's only one or two shows on the CW now that aren't produced by Warners.

R263 I mean stylewise. If you look at the CW, you could call most of their lineup WB. I'm glad they saved VM...for a year at least.

Buffy went to UPN? Did Angel stay at WB? Didn’t they air right after each other?

Freddie Prinze Jr. says a lot of people owe Sarah Michelle a LOT for what she did for the show and she gets NO credit for the weight she pulled. She needs to be thanked but she’s not. She did all the heavy lifting and made Buffy the success it was. She would have gladly signed up for a season 8 if it wasn’t for someone’s (ahem, Hannigan) ego.

SMG and Charmin followed each other today. Nature is healing.

R266 see R186. Twitter idiots are reading "dark things" into typical workplace drama.

Is Naya Rivera still waiting in the shack to be rescued?

I saw comments online how Joss is also to blame for Nick Brendon’s alcoholism and domestic violence issues. Okay…. not sure about that.

Joss is also to blame for Carole Landis' suicide and for the Tenerife airport disaster of '77.

Why are we talking about Charisma when Naya Rivera, a mother, daughter, wife, caregiver, friend, and badminton player is waiting to be found, desperately crying out for help! Search. The. Cabins!

He sounds like a true creep and his comments about Carpenter keeping her baby were just gross.

[quote]Buffy went to UPN? Did Angel stay at WB? Didn’t they air right after each other?

The last two seasons of Buffy were on UPN, and Angel remained on the WB. They also forbade any crossovers until the tail end of Buffy, were Willow got to be in one episode of Angel, Faith had an arc that started on Angel and ended on Buffy, and Angel got to appear (I think for only a single scene) in the Buffy finale.

We are MANIFESTING Naya's rescue RIGHT. NOW.

Cory says the squirrels and deer are funning out of berries and nuts to feed Naya in the forest!

WHY AREN'T THEY LOOKING IN THE FOREST????

WHY AREN'T THEY LOOKING IN THE CABINS????????

R247 Exactly. They had HOW many episodes to just say it or have him explore it? Plenty.

They used it as a joke, period.

If there was ever bad blood between Gellar and Hannigan they seem to have put it to bed a long time ago. Sarah was at Aly's kid's birthday back in 2015.

So can we expect a Lea Michele style take down of Allyson Hannigan now

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Trachtenberg needs to stop with the damn random periods everywhere.

[quote] Given how protective Sarah was of her and her own feelings towards Joss, if there was anything like that, she would've cut his balls off.

I can't give much away, but for one generic example, Sarah Michelle Gellar is very exacting, focused on doing the job she is hired to do and making sure she is beloved by the executives signing her paychecks and to hell with everyone else. I have seen her berate an elevator full of people because she was afraid she would keep her car waiting. She yelled at her mother for getting out at the wrong floor and gurned theatrically every time randos got in, until a British man sniffed at her "we're all busy" and she shut up. When she got to our minders she was super apologetic and flirty like a switch had been flicked.

I am sure she protect Michelle the best she could. I don't know that she would confront Joss personally in any way, When it comes to people with power, she's more likely to have a cold war.

Even now her response was markedly generic. She's looking out for number 1. Which is fine, but she's not actually an awesome, ethical, cool-headed chick who is all business like her fans want her to be.

Its Hollywood, they will be able to forgive almost anything for a hit. Just start the spin early and keep it up until things are less poisonous.

SMG is probably hoping that no one posts the SNL video in which she is mocking Britney. Don’t think it would play well with the Free Britney GenZ crowd on social media.

I remember before Simply Irresistible came out there was some behind the scenes footage of SMG yelling at someone as they both tugged on a bag. At the time I assumed it was video of them filming a scene, but there's no scene like that in the movie. I really wonder now if it was a deleted scene or someone just caught her having a tantrum on video.

SMG has a new show that she's working on produced by Ellen Degeneres. I can see why she's trying to avoid any controversy right now. That reply was very carefully worded so that she seems supportive without getting too deeply involved. I don't blame her: Imagine that a coworker from 20 years ago is bringing up a controversy with your former asshole boss just as you are starting a new job. You don't want to be tagged as unsupportive of your coworker BUT you don't want to piss off your new boss, either. It's a tightrope.

I love that Eliza Dushku was so offended by Joss Wehdon she asked him to come back to TV to do Dollhouse with her.

Dushku didn't mention Whedon at all. She said she didn't know this was going on (i. e., was not being mistreated by Whedon) but she supported Carpenter's need to speak her truth.

Eliza and Amy Acker and that one rando chick who was terrible as Hero in Much Ado About Nothing probably fucked with Joss.

Which clip of SMG making fun of Britney?

Charisma and SMG just now started following each other?

I've wondered if they had some sort of beef. I always thought it was strange that whenever Buffy would turn up on Angel, they made sure that most of the scenes did not have Cordelia and Buffy in the same room, or if they were, they didn't interact. If I recall correctly, I think there was only one line spoken between them on any of the crossovers.

It sounds like Whedon had his favorites and made everyone else miserable. SMG was the star so even tho she was apparently not his favorite, he couldn’t afford to make her too miserable

R269 the root of Nick's demons were a teacher that molested him and a dad that didn't believe him. When he went off the rails a few years ago, he went from managers who were tired of his BS to managers who enabled the shit out of him, bringing girls to his room, buying him drugs. She was the fat chick who came on Dr Phil with him (another great idea)

He made her as miserable as he could get away with. He passive-aggressively insulted her outside projects in the press (calling Cruel Intentions 'porny'), let the writers give her humiliating storylines (the mutually abusive relationship with Spike culminating in the attempted rape), and gave her little credit for making the show a success. In return, SMG ruthlessly separated herself from the majority of the cast and crew and left as soon as her 2-year second contract was up.

R292 I don’t blame her. She’s still very close with some people from All My Children, so it’s not like she’s incapable of bonding on a set. Just not that set.

Vagueness makes you trend Michelle!

That set always seemed a little strange when you compared it to other shows of its kind. On other teen dramas like 90210, Dawson's, Charmed, One Tree Hill, Gossip Girl, and Felicity, you always heard stories about cast members being best friends, cast members dating, or cast members absolutely hating each other's guts. But Buffy, while clearly not drama free, always just seemed like a bunch of people who worked long hours together but otherwise didn't give each other a second thought.

I remember the cast was apparently pissed that they found out that the show was ending from a magazine interview where SMG announced she decided to end it.

She didn't even invite most of the cast members to her wedding in 2002--and remember the show was still going then. Whatever went down, SMG was clearly over all of those people by the last couple of seasons.

Didn't she tell Marsters when they first started working together that she didn't socialize with cast and crew, so he shouldn't be offended if he never saw her outside of work? She was drawing lines fairly early on.

That has never made any sense to me, R296. Going into season 7, literally everyone who watched the show expected it to be the last season. That's why they brought back The First and why they were working on the potential Faith spin-off. All SMG did was confirm in an EW interview that she wasn't renewing her contract, which everyone knew was up. I highly doubt anyone expected the show to continue for another season. And, based on these stories, it sounds like some of them were probably relieved.

Yeah, it is a little weird none of them were at her wedding, but I remember James Marsters once saying how SMG told him how she thought he was really cool and to please not think otherwise just because they didn't hang out together outside of work—that that just wasn't something she did with co-workers.

R295, Charmed was a Teen drama?

I think one of the differences between the Buffy cast and others was that the Buffy cast was made up of actors who the most part, had long, established careers in the industry (with the exception of Brendan). They weren't brand new actors trying to reach fame with only each other to relate to.

R299, I think R296 is fairly accurate. They didn't find out during the filming of S7, they found out after they wrapped S6.

R295 I always got the feeling from cast interviews that because the show had a lot of night shoots their social hours were all over the place and so they tried to get in as much as time with people the knew outside of the show in the regular lives. The show was also massive internationally, I mean it was one of the biggest shows on the BBC in the UK when it aired, this meant a lot extra press comiments and then SMG was also shooting films while being the main star of Buffy, she would fly between Australia and America at the beginning of season 6 so she could film Scooby-Doo.

Marsters chimed in. Surely his statement won't satisfy a lot of people as they wanted stronger condemnation from Anthony Head and are still waiting for Noxon and Espenson to make a statement.

While I will always be honored to have played the character of Spike, the Buffy set was not without challenges. I do not support abuse of any kind, and am heartbroken to learn of the experiences of some of the cast. I send my love and support to all involved.

I'm not sure Noxon is going to come forward and say anything, Joss got a lot of shit from people around him for hiring her as they assumed he only hired her because she was an attractive woman.

I think Marsters' comment is clear enough. It's certainly no less supportive than SMG's or Head's. At least he said something, unlike Boreanaz or Seth Green or Aly Hannigan.

J. August Richards posted his support for Charisma early on. I'm not sure why his comment isn't getting more attention.

Seth Green is probably afraid to say anything anywhere, the crazy Qanon people are after him non stop

R306 If I were him I'd be pissed. Gunn was such a stereotype, I mean the only lead black character in either of the shows and he comes from the hood and one of his central episodes starts of with Gangster paradise.

[quote]the crazy Qanon people are after him non stop

Really? Why is Green a Q target?

Calm the fuck down loon.

Some insane person who is a QAnon hero named Isaac Kappy made videos saying Tom Hanks, Seth and others were trafficking kids. Kappy killed himself which makes his followers even more sure their conspiracy theories are true.

R311 Thanks!

Speaking up was dumb for James. Already being asked about his Michelle song:

I don't think you know my name I think you'd leave me standing in the rain You're a pretty little girl, you got a thing for me But you'd cut me open and let me bleed

But I notice you With your long brown hair Pretty little feet Sparkling everywhere

You look so good When you come my way But I have to look down When you talk to me

'Cause you're dangerous Dangerous Dangerous And you don't even know it

One baby, two, maybe three more years You'll be a full grown girl, have all your curves And here's my taste of irony: You'll be a ten-hot baby, too good for me

But I'll be looking at you With your long brown hair Pretty little feet Sparkling everywhere

You look so good When you come my way But I have to look down When you talk to me

'Cause you're dangerous Dangerous Dangerous And you don't even know it

So little girl, be good to me There's a fire in you that's gonna to burn free But I'm not the one to hold your hand I'm too grown up to be your man

But I'll be looking at you With your long brown hair Pretty little feet Sparkling everywhere

You look so good When you come my way But I have to look down When you talk to me

'Cause you're dangerous Dangerous Dangerous And you don't even know it

If Alyson were smart she'd take this opportunity to side with Charisma and everyone else and reflect upon how indeed it was a toxic environment that lead to so much stress that as a young actress, it was not only hard to recognize the abuse it also made it hard to understand how to cope! She could then launch into an apology about how if she ever unknowingly behaved poorly as A RESULT of this CONSTANT abuse and pressure she was put under by this evil man, JOSS WHEDON, she is truly sorry for the way in which she was FORCED to cope!

R306 "HowEVER you need me" - he's offering her his 12" BBC

[quote]"HowEVER you need me" - he's offering her his 12" BBC

Is he offering it to her husband? He's openly gay.

R316 that's why he included the "HOWEVER you need me". He knows it's what she wants.

Even 20 years ago, Marsters' song was hella inappropriate. He was an idiot for ever writing it, much less performing it.

Charisma’s son who Joss wanted her to abort looks like Justin Bieber before all the tattoo madness

R318 it's possible he knew she had a crush on him or she had low self-esteem and he was being sweet to her. Unclench the pearls.

I have no problem with the tattoo meeting. If I'm a producer and hires an actor to portray a character that has no tattoos and you show up one day with a prominent one. I'd be pissed. It cost money and time having the make up people do the extra extra work.

R319 He looks like Connor! How awkward!

My pearls aren't clutched--he was a thirtysomething man writing about much he'd like to fuck a pretty girl but she's just too young for him. Men have those feelings all the time, but the smart ones lock that shit down and don't write songs about it, especially when those men are minor celebrities themselves. I stand by my original take: He's an idiot.

R319, her son has a teddy bear tattoo.

Noxon made a statement with a link to a Hollywood Reporter piece she wrote last year about protecting writers from toxic showrunners.

I would like to validate what the women of Buffy are saying and support them in telling their story. They deserve to be heard.

I understand where @AllCharisma , Amber, Michelle and all the women who have spoken out are coming from.

Rather tepid Noxon

R323 you don't know the context so you are assuming the worst. Unclench, nancy!

Marti Noxon can fuck off, she was an awful producer.

[quote] Charisma and SMG just now started following each other? I've wondered if they had some sort of beef. I always thought it was strange that whenever Buffy would turn up on Angel, they made sure that most of the scenes did not have Cordelia and Buffy in the same room, or if they were, they didn't interact. If I recall correctly, I think there was only one line spoken between them on any of the crossovers.

Their beef is that Charisma thought she should be the star of Buffy. She always resented that she had to play fourth banana to SMG when she felt like she should be the star, being taller and prettier with a better body. Charisma was almost going to Buffy but then SMG auditioned and blew Joss when he saw her acting. Then Chairman got bumped down to supporting.

R326 she was in charge during Season 6 and 7, when James was "so traumatized"

Marti Noxon was a bad showrunner as well, James went to her about his issues with the rape storyline and she completely ignored him, which sent him into therapy. She's also obsessed with rape, I'm pretty sure it was when she was working on Private Practice that one of the female characters was brutally raped.

[quote] SMG auditioned and blew Joss

Ahem. What?

R329 she had one of those most fun roles on the show, though.

Joss has to be held partly accountable for the popularity of the name JOSS for newborn boys and girls in the last decade or so.

The “Charisma" auto corrects are killing me. Charmin, chairman...

Charisma was "almost cast" as Buffy?

I know she auditioned for it but I can't see any world where she would have actually almost gotten that role.

Auto correct has been awful lately. No, I actually mean fuck, not duck, thanks.

Considering SMG kicked the original Willow in the cunt for being fat, maybe it's good that Charisma wasn't part of the main show when she was pregnant.

R336, why not? Alyson Hannigan was almost cast as Buffy too. Either one would have made great Buffies.

I can't see that dweeby, borderline-retarded way Alyson plays every role working very well as Buffy.

Hannigan would have made a terrible Buffy.

Such pussies.

Marti Noxon complaining about toxic work environments? That's rich.

The rape storyline in S6 was based on Marti trying to do that to an ex-boyfriend. She also insisted on having James shirtless in almost every episode of that season. I remember reading interviews with him, talking about how uncomfortable he felt. I guess she really wanted to see him naked.

Ive never read that Hannigan ever auditioned for Buffy.

I've seen where she auditioned for Willow thinking she blew it.

Katie Holmes was supposedly originally offered the Buffy role. She would have been terrible too.

^But Katie Holmes certainly fits the Joss type.

All the almost-Buffies got consolation prizes in supporting roles: Charisma, Alyson, Emma, Nicolas, Jenny Calendar, Glory, Kendra, Joyce, Eliza, Clea Duvall, Michelle Krusiec, Lillith, Harmony, Drusilla, Julie Benz. Only the ones who truly sucked didn’t get anything.

[quote] The rape storyline in S6 was based on Marti trying to do that to an ex-boyfriend

She raped her ex? And is proud of it that she wants to base a show on it?

[quote] Katie Holmes was supposedly originally offered the Buffy role. She would have been terrible too.

I thought Katie Holmes was plucked from obscurity and discovered on Dawson’s Creek. How would Joss have known who she was when casting Buffy years earlier?

R327, you seem awfully motivated to defend a grown man perving on a young teenager. The song was fucking inappropriate, whatever the state of Michelle Trachtenberg's self-esteem. Given how upset she still is about whatever Joss did to her when they were left alone, I doubt she appreciated Marsters talking about her hair and her feet and how many curves she was going to get soon. ICK.

R349 you might find Twitter more to your liking since your first line of defense is ad hominem attacks.

Having a handsome somewhat older guy fawn over you and make you feel special to boost your low self-esteem - dear lord, what a nightmare for her!

James has now said the song was actually meant for Alyson Hannigan.

R35`...uhhuh

I don't know Katie Holmes' origin story, but didn't Buffy and Dawson's creek premiere around the same times?

R350, it is a fucking nightmare when that man is old enough to literally be her father. Fuck off, pervert.

Still haven't seen anything while searching for Alyson auditioning for the Buffy Summers role. Where is this mentioned?

R354 spoken like a true Frau.

R351 Yeah, I believe that...

Ryan Gosling was up for the part ofXander and was so shit he didn't get it. I guess he learned if he gave up his hole he could get whatever part he wanted.

R357 Why are you posting here on our little gossip board when the world needs you defending girls from predators! Off you go to Saudi Arabia, posthaste! Your talents in "I knows it when I sees it" are too valuable to waste here!

R349 it was a different time!

[quote]Ryan Gosling was up for the part ofXander and was so shit he didn't get it. I guess he learned if he gave up his hole he could get whatever part he wanted.

Wow, I wonder what his career would be like if he had done Buffy for seven years. To think, he must have been so envious of Nicholas Brendon and wish he could be in his place. Bet he wouldn’t want to trade places now.

Ryan REYNOLDS auditioned for Buffy. Not Gosling.

Like Hannigan, Reynolds would have made a horrible Buffy.

R363 I don't know, that anal scene in season 6 would've been way hotter.

[quote] He looks like Connor! How awkward!

I notice Vince is smartly staying out of this.

R365 why would he? He hated his time on the show, the fans hated him and I dont think he even went to the Angel reunion.

Firefly writer says Joss liked being a dick. a bad look, but hardly illegal

If you want to find out what Joss's attitude was like, watch Buffy's speeches during the later seasons. It's all about her being special and how tough it is being the leader and all the pressure being on her and how no one else could do it. It's quite obvious Joss was using the character as a mouthpiece.

Saying "I didn't see any abuse but I support others in speaking their truth:" is a cop-out. Just don't say anything. SMG is not without her own history of being a problem. She and Susan Lucci famously did not get along on the set of AMC when she was hired to be her daughter from rape.

R369 not commenting isnt "acceptable".

I hope David Boreanaz tries to say something. The amount of stories about HIM!...

Why assume that SMG was the problem and not Lucci?

If Joss was indeed sleeping with Amy Acker, it puts Fred's Mary Sue-ness in a new light. Fred is the ideal fantasy girlfriend for nerds like Joss (and Wesley).

For someone who didn't want to make any more statements...bravo Michelle. People are going to assume she's a rape victim until she clarifies one way or the other.

R370, what were the stories about Boreanaz?

I don't know about the Buffy years but Boreanaz was sued for sexual harassment by a BONES extra. The case was resolved before going to trial so likely the woman received a settlement.

R374 Boreanaz reportedly would drop his pants and show off his dick to female co-stars.

R374 Boreanaz is a PRICK. I've heard a number of stories from unrelated crew about how he treats "the little people" on set. And he was texting his and Tiger Woods' shared mistress while his wife was in labor, so I'm sure he has bad stories where women are concerned.

He had a scorching affair with SMG the first couple of years on the show. It helped break up his first marriage.

R373 Yeah, it's a dog whistle for those who are desperate to see any white man fail. They assume they are all sexual predators with all the power in the world and this is feeding into their obsessions.

There's unfortunately censored screengrabs of him video chatting with someone in a sexual nature. They're from the last few years, definitely. His second wife just focuses on her kids and the money

What is Michelle Trachtenberg's problem, does she have brain damage? I'm serious. I'm familiar with the unfortunate trend of emphasizing certain words by improperly placing periods between them, but I've never seen it done to the insane extent she does. The effect is disturbing, as though she's a stroke victim struggling to get the words out.

Amber had the best statement. Short and sweet. Of course she's a professional writer, like MT claims to be.

Michelle was a child actress from a young age, education wouldn't have been her parents priority for her, sadly. I've read rumors about her, I think maybe on here so take it with a massive pinch of salt, that she only gets with black guys. So if Joss did abuse her in some way or she was abused by other men in the industry, her reaction to that could be finding herself in a sexual situation with a white man to uncomfortable due to the past trauma.

When Buffy and Angel are saying goodbye in "I Will Remember You", he calls her Sarah instead of Buffy. They kept it in, presumably because it's just a whisper and virtually no one would notice. I expect actors accidentally call their co-stars by their real name all the time, but it struck me as odd given what an emotional scene it was. Made me wonder if there was something going on between them behind the scenes.

R384 I thought one of the big rumors of the show was that Sarah and David were hooking up?

If Sarah had been boinking David, Alyson would have made sure everyone knew about it.

R386 Who are you?

Tick tock, Alyson, tick tock.

[quote]Charisma was almost going to Buffy but then SMG auditioned and blew Joss when he saw her acting. Then Chairman got bumped down to supporting.

Bianca Lawson was officially cast as Cordelia Chase.

She dropped out since another show she auditioned for on network tv got picked up. Due to her contract, she didn't have a choice to be accept it.

That's when Charisma was given Cordelia.

Since Joss liked Bianca (and her show got cancelled), he brought her back as Kendra.

Which hated Emma so much that they gave her the ending on Buffy that they did?

Emma wanted out of the show and to be "free" from any spinoffs. But apparentlu she was pissed that her death was so quick and brutal. Like...that happens in war.

At the EW cast reunion a few years ago, she was SCREAMING at someone on her phone.

I wonder if Hannigan was trying to come off as "edgy" and show she wasn't at all like Willow only she did it by being a cruel bitch. Also, who was the actress originally cast as Willow?

Maybe Hannigan is just not a nice person? Wonder how she did on the How I Met Your Mother set.

I'm wondering if Trachtenberg was using the voice to text and was speaking slowly for that part of her message, because otherwise, yikes. Poor girl.

[quote]Maybe Hannigan is just not a nice person?

Maybe? MAYBE?

[quote] If Alyson were smart she'd take this opportunity to side with Charisma and everyone else and reflect upon how indeed it was a toxic environment that lead to so much stress that as a young actress,

Careful. Showing support for someone, or a cause, was what got Lea Michele in trouble. A single tweet about supporting BLM made a minor African American Glee actress come forward about how cruel and mean Lea was to her. Then all of a sudden the floodgates opened and more people shared their horror stories about Lea.

R396 that was the point of the ridiculous post. To get in front of it and blame any bad behavior on how SHE was victimized by Whedon.

Amber's wording was very precise. Buffy the set was toxic and it STARTED at the top

[quote]Amber had the best statement. Short and sweet. Of course she's a professional writer, like MT claims to be.

What has Amber written? And why is she all up in Charisma’s business? Does she even know the girl? Have they even met?

R399 Read the damn thread or go to Amber's social media

[quote]What has Amber written?

She has written 10 books for Penguin Random House and probably a bunch of other things.

[quote]And why is she all up in Charisma’s business?

Because she too had problems on the set with others.

[quote]Does she even know the girl?

Yes.

[quote]Have they even met?

Of course.

Why would they meet though? They’ve never worked together.

Actors meet people they don't work with, especially in the same franchise. You don't think people from different Star Treks have met?

[quote]Why would they meet though?

Because Buffy is a cult classic and a lot of the former members of the cast have met through fan conventions, photoshoots and beyond that ...

[quote]They’ve never worked together.

They did work together on a movie with Claire Kramer (Glory) called, "The Griddle House." So I'd imagine at this point they're actual friends.

The most creative people are screwed in the head. After everyone "abusive" gets cancelled none of the cancellers get to complain when US media goes to shit.

SMG is a good actress. Her single Jew NY mother was right to push her into auditions and have them live in poverty or whatever. Where has that bitch SMG been anyway? 18!!! Years since buffys over??

R405

You must live in a really f*cked up pseudo-reality if you think that the world needs abusive people to create quality art.

That's a disturbed worldview.

Whedon told a neurotic actress "you are fat" and whined about the ugly tattoo she got ruining continuity.

Is that it?

I thought Benson’s first name was Ashley, Ashley Benson?

Wasn’t Michelle Harriet the Spy? Harriet would have kicked Joss’ ass.

[quote]I thought Benson’s first name was Ashley, Ashley Benson?

That one was on Freeform's "Pretty Little Liars".

Imagine, 2 actresses having the super common last name of Benson. WOWWWWW

[quote] Where has that bitch SMG been anyway? 18!!! Years since buffys over??

She sells boxed desserts now.

[quote] You must live in a really f*cked up pseudo-reality if you think that the world needs abusive people to create quality art.

[quote] That's a disturbed worldview.

The thing is though that tortured artists create tortured art that is appealing to a tortured audience.

It's most obvious when people who go through an emotional break up and only listen to depressing break up songs from artists know for being moody, depressed, and supposedly know what they are singing about.

The issue isn't that the world NEEDS abusive people to create art, but there sure is a demand for it and people profit from supplying that demand. Which is unfortunate, but it's part of our demand driven society.

Supposedly Elizabeth Anne Allen who played Amy was the runner up for the role of Buffy. Selma Blair auditioned for it too. The story about Katie Holmes turning down the role is all over the internet, but I don’t think it’s true since it didn’t surface until well after the show was over, doesn’t seem to have any legitimate source, and it’s fairly well known that Katie was still in high school in Ohio when she auditioned for Dawson’s Creek via videotape and Buffy was on the air a full year even before that.

What’s Freddy Prince Jr.’s damage that he hadn’t worked in decades and makes SMG be the primary breadwinner?

Maybe he has daddy issues.

Freddie has worked consistently over the past two decades. Besides, he doesn't need to work with all of Daddy's money!!!!!!!

SMG said that Ryan Reynolds never auditioned for Xander. And i know Bianca auditioned for Cordy, but i wonder how she'd do as Buffy.

And on a different note, does anyone else remember Sean calling out Adam Baldwin for being a homophobic bully on the set of Firefly??

It seems that people are also mad that Seth Green,Nicholas Brendon,Tom Lenk,Marc Blucas,Vincent Kartheiser,Nathan Fillion and especially David Boreanaz haven't come out to support Charisma Carpenter.

Wasn't David B. mad at Whedon for screwing him over for Buffy and Angel royalties or something?

[quote] What’s Freddy Prince Jr.’s damage that he hadn’t worked in decades and makes SMG be the primary breadwinner?

He was almost the breadwinner last year when he got cast as Nancy Drew’s dad but then he had to go and get himself fired.

What is the goal here? I understand what Ray Fisher wants and that’s ok. But what do the Buffy people want to accomplish here? To get Joss blacklisted? Should he give up the rights to Buffy and Angel? Not be involved in the reboot? Or is it just about „speaking my truth“ that is so popular today?

[quote] Freddie has worked consistently over the past two decades. Besides, he doesn't need to work with all of Daddy's money!!!!!!!

What money? Freddie Prinze, Sr. was on a hit sitcom for two and a half seasons before killing himself 45 years ago. The sitcom has rarely shown up in syndication since then and '70s TV deals had stingy residual deals, anyway. So where is this supposedly fabulous wealth coming from?

I hate when people post about "my truth" it's either the truth or it's not. My truth makes it seem like it's just your recollection of what went on and could possibly be not true.

R423, Charisma was backing up Ray Fisher, whose career was apparently affected because he complained about Whedon's behaviour

As for calling out actors not having commented yet...

We're just gonna let Amy Acker have a pass?

Or is it really no secret she was fucking Joss???

At least Andy has a good excuse not to comment.

Charisma sat on this stuff for years. There were rumors and she may have alluded to some things, but for the most part this is her most comprehensive comment on the subject. She just confirmed what most people either suspected or already knew. And good for her.

I do think it's wrong for fans to expect other actors to make a statement on this. It's nice that some of her peers have her back, but at the same time there is no obligation for anyone else do anything.

R60, I always assumed that was the network's decision, not Joss's. For all that Joss had a thing for extremely skinny women, he still gave Miracle Laurie a role in Dollhouse, and told Jewel Staite that she would have to gain weight for the part of Kaylee in Firefly. He also cast Amber Benson as Tara (she wasn't even overweight, but was still bigger than her tiny co-stars). Basically, he's not averse to casting normal-sized (or even large) women in supporting roles. I suspect he originally wrote Willow as a "chubby best friend" stereotype, and the network wanted someone slimmer. They also objected to Willow's "softer side of Sears" outfit in the pilot, which is why she doesn't dress as such a stereotypical nerd after that.

R429 it's people with too much time on their hands and mob mentality. They will bully (and are) each one of them trying to force them to do what they want.

As does Glenn Quinn, R428

[quote]What is the goal here? I understand what Ray Fisher wants and that’s ok. But what do the Buffy people want to accomplish here? To get Joss blacklisted? Should he give up the rights to Buffy and Angel? Not be involved in the reboot? Or is it just about „speaking my truth“ that is so popular today?

As R426 said Charisma was backing up Ray but furthermore she didn't do this all willynilly on the internet. She was included in the WarnerMedia's investigation into allegations against Joss thanks to Ray quite a while ago. So she was already interviewed internally about it years later to find out if there were issues with Joss when they worked together. It also seems like this happened months ago and she's just telling everyone now.

So yes, WarnerMedia did take the investigation seriously.

The other cast members are backing her up just as a few of the Justice League cast members did for Ray because people just saying, "this person was terrible when I worked with them" isn't enough for some people.

[quote]I do think it's wrong for fans to expect other actors to make a statement on this. It's nice that some of her peers have her back, but at the same time there is no obligation for anyone else do anything.

It's rather annoying. J August Richards posted that he supported her. The twist is he also mentioned that he called her and spoke to her. He was only posting that on his twitter so that people knew that in fact he did or he'd risk being torn apart. Also kudos to him for coming out of the closet. (Sadly the show got cancelled.) The internet public is strange. Nobody assumes that maybe, just maybe, cast members could have called the person in question and spoken with them privately.

[quote] What is the goal here? I understand what Ray Fisher wants and that’s ok. But what do the Buffy people want to accomplish here? To get Joss blacklisted? Should he give up the rights to Buffy and Angel?

And then what? After they’ve successfully destroyed Joss where do we go from here? The battle’s done and we kinda won. We cancelled Joss so we sound our victory cheer. But where do we go from here? Why is the path unclear?

[quote] The internet public is strange. Nobody assumes that maybe, just maybe, cast members could have called the person in question and spoken with them privately.

It reminds me of the time Michelle Williams got hassle for not congratulating Beyonce on social media on the birth of her baby. She had actually congratulated her one-to-one.

Oh, shit, R420... the things I know about Tom Lenk!

[quote]Where has that bitch SMG been anyway?

She's done some voice acting, and if the AMC revival that Kelly Ripa is pushing ends up happening, she'll most likely be involved with that.

"Healing won't be easy"

OH THE DRAMA!@

R436 SPILL

Asking Charisma if she was going to keep her baby alone should earn him a punch in his smug sagging face from every actor he's ever worked with.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Joss Whedon's house right now. How is he taking all of this? Is he reflecting on his past behaviour, or does he resent the cast for speaking out? He's rich enough that he'll never need to work again, but he's losing the hero-worship he's received for decades.

SMG tried to be a movie star in the years immediately following Buffy. That didn't work out, so she tried TV again--3 shows (Ringer, Crazy Ones, Cruel Intentions reboot) didn't work out. She has a new limited series AND a regular series that are both produced by Fox but got put off by Coronavirus. No idea if/when those are going forward. She's also got some kind of organic food line she's been pushing. But she's definitely struggled to find success as an actress since Buffy ended.

Apologies if this has already been posted: David Boreanaz has wiped his Instagram

IIRC people posited that he wiped it after he made a snarky remark to John Davis Francis, his BONES costar regarding face masks.

Josh Whedon used to weigh the young female cast members weekly and rage if they went over 110lb. Buffy, Willow, Cordelia, Harmony and Fred in Angel were all borderline anorexic trying to keep below that weight. Meanwhile the guy playing Angel ballooned in Angel from how he was in Buffy and nobody said a thing to him which will be why he isn't speaking out. Other anorexic cast members included Eve in Angel and Nina the werewoman.

Don't blame him. He's in a no-win situation. More celebs should do that.

Where did you hear that, R445?

I remember attending Comic Con yeeears ago and thinking the membrane between fan and creator was thinning to a potentially dangerous degree. It's like everyone's influencing each other too intensely.

I’d love to see Boreanaz get the Lea Michele treatment.

R445 Eve was skinny. And so was Lilah. But i remember Nina looking slightly healthier??

To add to my post at R430 - Firefly overlapped with season four of Angel, which is when Charisma Carpenter was pregnant. At the time, Joss was giving interviews about how he asked Jewel Staite to put on 20lbs for the role, because he wrote Kaylee as a girl who lives life to the fullest and enjoys a cheeseburger. How progressive of him, eschewing the strict body standards that mainstream TV usually imposes on actresses!

Meanwhile, behind the scenes, he was calling Charisma fat when she was four months pregnant and 126lbs.

He played the media and the fans like a fiddle.

Whedon's ex-wife talked about what a manipulative prick he was during her marriage. The above doesn't surprise me at all.

[Quote] Whedon's ex-wife talked about what a manipulative prick he was during her marriage. The above doesn't surprise me at all.

Anytime that was brought up on the Buffy reddit, fans would dismiss it and say it wasn't any of our business and had nothing to do with the show.

[quote] It reminds me of the time Michelle Williams got hassle for not congratulating Beyonce on social media on the birth of her baby.

She also did not congratulate Katie Holmes when she had Suri. She’s a cold one.

[quote] IIRC people posited that he wiped it after he made a snarky remark to John Davis Francis, his BONES costar regarding face masks.

John Davis uses daily gold face masks to look young and David basically called him a fag for caring about his skin and having a daily skin regimen, .

OMG, I really thought that was a picture of Thanos at R250. Did they use Joss as a model?

R454 I think you have your Michelle Williamses mixed up.

People have treated others like shit in show biz and in life for eons; now, social media is allowing people to be called out on it.

I love it.

[Quote] John Davis uses daily gold face masks to look young and David basically called him a fag for caring about his skin and having a daily skin regimen, .

[quote] I think you have your Michelle Williamses mixed up.

That’s the joke.

Downright weird story James Marsters told last year about Joss. Sounds like a joke, but James explicitly says it wasn't.

[quote] “I came along and I wasn’t designed to be a romantic character, but then the audience reacted that way to it,” he started. “And I remember he backed me up against a wall one day, and he was just like, ‘I don’t care how popular you are, kid, you’re dead. You hear me? Dead. Dead!’ And I was just like, ‘Uh, you know, it’s your football, man. OK.’”

[quote] Asked if Whedon was just joking, Marsters said “No, hell no,” and added that he never received an apology because Whedon “was angry at the situation.”

He has previously said Joss complained that actors, not writers, are the ones who get laid, so that puts it into context.

R432, a bit harsh. (but I laughed.)

[quote]He has previously said Joss complained that actors, not writers, are the ones who get laid, so that puts it into context.

There's also the fact that Joss was fug and James Marsters was quite a handsome man, but you do you, Joss.

R445..... wait, Joss personally weighed them? Or wardrobe weighed them?? How could you get away with that? I don't believe it.

Folks were in an uproar over Calista and the cast of Ally McBeal years earlier. Portia de Rossi's near death made headlines. I sincerely doubt any network would allow a showrunner to overtly state what an actress' weight could and could not be. Even without Twitter, that shit would leak in the media.

Anorexia couldn't be encouraged. Thin was in, sure, but pushing the cast to stay below 110? Again, I can't imagine he'd actually say that.

He wouldn't necessarily say the words out loud, but, rather, would praise the whippet thin actresses and give them more scenes/lines, and rewarding actresses who dropped weight, even when painfully thin to begin. See Acker, Amy.

R465 so basically nothing provable, just insinuation 🙄

Buffy stunt coordinator said last year that Joss "changed as the show took off. He went from the humble writer who used to turn to me for ways to shoot fight scenes into a real egomaniac who believed his own hype. Then again, maybe he was always that way and I was simply too naive to see it as he never showed that side to me before."

The stunt double and her husband have been saying that for 20 years. They wrote a “fairy tale” about how evil Joss and Sarah were.

The fairy tale

" The Parable of the Knight by J.P.

Once there was a young man who trained himself to be a Knight...

Others around him said, "You cannot become a Knight. There are no Knights here in this God-forsaken village. Knights live in a far away land into which you must be born. It is a fantasy. You are a young fool."

And they laughed at him. But his Mother said to him, "Try son. This village is worthless and nothing good will come of you should you stay here." So he did try. He had no other choice. For around him was nothingness.

After countless battles across many lands the young man did indeed become a real Knight - just as he had dreamed. Yet he wandered and had no home of his own. He merely fought each battle as they came and lived from day to day. And he was alone.

One day a brilliant young King (that until recently had only been a Prince in a Royal Family) called upon him. Many glorious plans had the King and he needed a Knight to fulfill them. The overjoyed Knight went forth and battled with all his heart. And the King, seeing this, looked around and said to his other servants, "Why didn't I have this guy from the start?"

The Knight had never fought for a King so young before. He seemed to know the things the Knight knew. The Knight saw that this King could be one worth serving and he made a vow that he would never take off his helmet until every battle had been won for this King. And it was good.

Yet there was trouble brewing beneath the surface in the Kingdom. The Generals felt that only they should give commands on the battlefield and seethed with jealousy inside themselves at every commandment put forth by the Knight. The young Knight continued to win every battle. What could they say to the King against him? So they plotted and waited.

The King's Blacksmith had always made swords for the battle. But the Knight saw that they were unwieldy and unreliable. The King's friend, Sir David, called upon the Knight himself to make swords that he felt were good for his battles. For after all, was not the Knight the one who made the battle plans? Who should know better, he thought, the Knight who fights with the sword or the Blacksmith who merely watched battles from the sidelines? Besides, did the Blacksmith not have much better skills at building the King's devices and such? And was the Blacksmith not overburdened with tasks? "Then let the young Knight build the swords for his own battles," he said.

The Blacksmith did seethe with rage at this and quietly plotted. Sword making was his domain, he felt. The Carpenter also was upset. For every time he built a beautiful house, the Knight and his fellow Knights would battle and destroy it. Often the Knights would move aside the works of the Carpenter so that they could make a great battle for the King. The Carpenter was indignant. For he was a Master Carpenter. "Who does this young Knight think he is?" they grumbled among themselves. But the King was pleased. For all of the people in the Land of Bronze saw the battles and appreciated the work of the Knight. And it was good.

Even the spoiled Princess saw that it was good. And she was known for hating all things. The young Knight had her twin, the Handmaiden, performing all the Royal duties in her place. The people of lands far away who saw this were amazed, thinking the Princess truly skilled at performing the Royal duties when in fact it was her Handmaiden all along. Though the Princess despised all other women in the Kingdom, she could not fault the Knight, for his use of the Handmaiden proved good for her and she was made to seem great in the eyes of the people. And so she tolerated the Handmaiden.

[quote]Buffy stunt coordinator said last year that Joss "changed as the show took off. He went from the humble writer who used to turn to me for ways to shoot fight scenes into a real egomaniac who believed his own hype.

Money and power show you who a person really is.

It doesn't mean they weren't always that way. It just means they have little reason to let it out now.

It's a lot to paste but that's the start

That 'fairy tale' sounds a little off. I mean, did anybody ever really think SMG did her own stunts? The switch to the stunt woman was always obvious--she had about 15 muscular pounds on SMG and was noticeably taller.

R472 Also the fact that they would hide her face during the action scenes.

R459, you couldn’t be more wrong. David’s Twitter is unlocked; you can see the exchange with John Frances Daley. I know David. He’s not a homophobe.

R474 he IS an ass, though. He sent a supportive tweet to Charisma. I wonder if he'll get the Lea Michele treatment.

The fairy tale thing seems a little eyeroll inducing. It reads like some bitter person mad that they didn't get the fame or recognition they deserved. You were a stunt double... surprise, you're basically hired to make it look like the same person is performing the stunt. As already mentioned, it's not like most people believed that SMG was doing the stunts herself... and I don't recall her ever saying she did. In fact, aren't there plenty of photos/videos and behind the scenes interviews with SMG and her stunt double?

R476 true but the fairy tale was written after they left the show in 2000. Not sure how much credit was given to stunt people back then. But yeah...very bitter. I'm sure nobody involved was a sweetheart, but he acts like his wife was chained in the basement until it was time to film.

He also claimed it was meant to be private and just shared with friends on the crew and someone leaked it. That's a LOT of writing for a private joke. Full fairy tale at link.

[quote]It reads like some bitter person mad that they didn't get the fame or recognition they deserved.

Jeff Pruitt and Sophia Crawford were excellent at their jobs and when they left the way stunts were shot changed and all became much more obvious.

It seems, according to that story, Joss had Sophia do something dangerous and ignored Jeff's warnings. Something that nearly got her killed? That's pretty serious.

I'm getting that SMG was upset that Sophia was taking credit for the stunts and had become a presence. That part I remember. She was the first stunt woman I ever knew by name because she was talked about a lot in the early days of the show. Reminds me of Lady Gaga allegedly getting upset that her choreographer was running around saying that she was responsible for her "dances" and her "look." So she had to go and then Gaga stopped dancing and changed her look.

But the story is a little too much. He could have just spit it all out.

Now it’s only Alyson Hannigan who hasn’t spoken up. Tik Tok, Aly.

I'm sorry, I can't hear you all over that royalty money I get from How I Met Your Mother.

R477, even during filming of Buffy I remember behind the scenes clips on Enetertainment Tonight that showed the stunt doubles.

Alyson is the godmother to Joss' first kid. She was also one of the cast visibly chummy with him at the EW reunion. She also reached out to Nicholas Brendon when he originally wasn't invited.

Jeff Pruitt commented on the YouTube video at R476 and said Sarah was jealous and immature.

“Thanks Donna, but I never drank at all during Buffy. That was someone else. Sarah and I did our jobs very well and got along great. The truth is that Sarah grew extremely jealous of Sophia. That’s why you don’t see her mentioned. And I know I should have been more mature and talked to Sarah about it. Instead I chose to ignore Sarah and just make the show. This only led to more tension. Whether we decided to leave or not, I would handle things differently today. Sarah was very young and I didn’t think about that then. I should have understood why she acted the way she did.”

R484 somebody's moved on hahaha

Why would Nicholas Brendon not have been invited to the reunion? He was the core original main cast, not an extra like Amber Bensin.

R486 I think it was because of his legal problems.

I thought Alison did comment. something about taking time from trying to survive the pandemic to comment how she hooes everyone can heal?

R488 that was a bad fake, parodied off of Sarah's response

o whoops! I really thought it sounded just like her. good on the parody-er!

I’d eat his ass.

[quote]She also reached out to Nicholas Brendon when he originally wasn't invited.

And yet she was one of the ones that wouldn't film with him? Wasn't Emma the only one who did?

R491 = Amy Acker

Is Alyson Hannigan the most successful actor to come out of Buffy? She has been working 30 years straight without a break and is getting more residuals than anyone with two hit long running series. She starred in My Stepmother is an Alien with Seth Green, then went to star in the witch sitcom Free Spirit, then starred in Buffy for 7 years, then starred in How I Met Your Mother for 15 years, then hosted Bullshit by Penn and Teller for 4 years, all while starring in five American Pie movies. Now she is starring in her own Disney Positive show as a mom. She’s never stopped working, unlike Brendon, Emma, Amber, Charisma, and even SMG and has more money than any of them.

R494 I think it's between her and Boreanaz who has gone from TV show to TV show since Buffy.

[quote]Is Alyson Hannigan the most successful actor to come out of Buffy?

No

[quote] I think it's between her and Boreanaz who has gone from TV show to TV show since Buffy.

And no.

R496 I love Amy Adams but I don't think a 1 episode guest spot counts in this context

[quote]I think it's between her and Boreanaz who has gone from TV show to TV show since Buffy.

Everyone seems to overlook the amazing Danny Strong formerly known as Jonathan.

He has TV show creator money from Empire. He also has a couple of Emmy Awards and wrote the screenplay for The Butler and two of the Hunger Games movies.

And yes, he supported Charisma.

And Seth Green has worked steadily. His voicework on FAMILY GUY and he's he creator of Comedy Central's ROBOT CHICKEN which earned him 3 Emmys.

I love Alyson Hannigan a little less since I learned her kids' names: 'Keeva' and 'Satyana'.

R498 his work is as a creator, not as an actor. Although I do appreciate that he willed that Season 4 episode of Everybody Loves Jonathan into existence

Has this been posted yet?

R497 it was a joke.

But it's still true. She IS the most successful actor to come off that show!

r485 he's moved on too. He is just answering SMG's insane fans.

[quote]his work is as a creator, not as an actor. Although I do appreciate that he willed that Season 4 episode of Everybody Loves Jonathan into existence

The question was, "Is Alyson Hannigan the most successful actor to come out of Buffy?"

Danny Strong was an actor who was on Buffy.

Danny Strong also became a writer and creator.

Danny Strong also is still an actor and has popped up on Billions for the past few years.

It's a perfectly valid answer.

Charisma is now doing virtual conventions because of the pandemic so she can answer questions about the abuse. You can book one with her for yourself or give as a gift to the ultimate Buffy fan.

Why aren’t Aly and David doing these?

WELCOME to MyCon.live! A virtual Con experience.

In these ever changing times when community meets isolation we must find ways to stay connected. With that spirit in mind I created MyCon.live. My hope is to take what I’ve learned from the myriad of Cons I’ve attended over the years and create a virtual experience on my own without a big company behind me. This is just you and me.

Let’s grow together! Until we can resume in person Con experiences, I hope to keep evolving and adding more unique fan experiences. I am constantly brainstorming in ways to keep it fresh and original. Thank you for pushing me!

I’ve never done anything tech-y like this before so I am hoping it’s a good experience for you, the fans, as your loyalty deserves the best.

Personally I am most looking forward to seeing your faces again and hearing about you, your life and what you get out of the various shows I’ve appeared on. Your insights continue to educate and delight me. I think I am most excited to offer the round table experience as it’s designed to bring a group of us together in a loose, fun and possibly tipsy way! 😜

R506 they have money to spare. Alyson has been flipping properties for years

Shout Outs. Get personalized messages from me!

Request your favorite Buffy or Angel line, hear some business advice or love from me.

What does a good request look like?

Try to be as specific as possible with your request. For example, let me know if this is for you or your relationship to the recipient. “Hi Charisma, my sister Julia is having her 30th birthday - can you wish her a good one!.”

Non-refundable once the shout out is delivered. If for some reason I cannot create your shout out, you will be refunded. All requests will be delivered within 10 days.

When your request is completed, I will email you a video to view, share, or download.

It seems Charish created her own company. Instead of joining Cameo/OnlyFans/Chaturbate she created her own platform. I wonder if other people will join her and pay her royalties to use it. Imagine Alyson Hannigan and SMG having to pay Christmas to use her platform. My, my, my, how the turntables.

One on One Live Video Chats

One of the experiences I miss most about Cons is getting a little time at the table to chat with you. But even then it’s quick, loud, and heavy with distractions.

Right now I am offering scheduled personal video chats for 10 minutes each. This way, we can schedule a zoom to connect in real-time.

These chats are more personal than a previously recorded message or a group table chat. These also make the perfect gift for a friend or family member.

Once these initial chats are fulfilled, we will continue to add more. BUY NOW

Shout Outs Get personalized messages from me!

Request your favorite Buffy or Angel line, hear some business advice or love from me.

What does a good request look like?

Try to be as specific as possible with your request. For example, let me know if this is for you or your relationship to the recipient. “Hi Charisma, my sister Julia is having her 30th birthday - can you wish her a good one!.”

Non-refundable once the shout out is delivered. If for some reason I cannot create your shout out, you will be refunded. All requests will be delivered within 10 days.

When your request is completed, I will email you a video to view, share, or download.

"MyCon..."

That's a terrible name...

Sounds like its exactly what the name is.

[quote]Alyson Hannigan will not say anything because she saw what happened with Lea Michele after she tried to support BLM. If she comes out with an anti-bullying tweet to support Chaturbate and Amber, the fans will tear her to shreds for being such a hypocrite since she was the biggest bully.

I agree, that's probably why she's keeping quiet on Joss. I also thought Hanngian was a hypocrite years ago when she said that Julie Benz was a nasty bitch on the set, when she probably wasn't any better than Benz.

[quote] Alyson Hannigan will not say anything because she saw what happened with Lea Michele after she tried to support BLM. If she comes out with an anti-bullying tweet to support Chaturbate and Amber, the fans will tear her to shreds for being such a hypocrite since she was the biggest bully.

Wow, there’s levels to this.

What specifically did Hannigan say about Benz?

R514 I don't think there have ever been specifics, just that Benz was so mean to her that Darla was killed off early (the first time)

Is her name pronounced with a hard “ch” like the fish or more like “car?”

In listing all the women he's cast that fit his, "type," let's not forget Juliet Landau. Has she commented?

So with David that's the entire ANGEL cast minus Amy Acker who moved right into the female lead after Charmkins was fired.

The sense of entitlement people have online is insane. This person needs to comment, this other person has to say something, just has to… we demand it! What the fuck?

If Alyson does not want to say anything, that’s her right.

The same people who had nothing but praise for Joss for the last 25 years suddenly remembered in 2021 what an asshole he was, how convenient.

Charmander is selling USED copies of Playboy. WTF?! Is she THAT hard up for money?

June 2004 Autographed Playboy

Pre-owned copy of Playboy, signed by Charisma. Only 5 in stock!

I wish they'd done more episodes with formerly mom possessed Amy the whole her coming back just to be evil sucked.

Shower thought: no other shippers have ever been as thoroughly screwed over as we Spike/Dru shippers were.

r523 It's because you use the word "shippers", which is stupid.

He was too mean for too long and pissed off too many people, and it came back to bite him in his flat flabby ass.

Did I miss David’s comment?

He responded to Charisma's tweet.

[Quote] Also the fact that they would hide her face during the action scenes.

Alot of the fight scenes in the earlier seasons were terrible because they just didn't bother to hide the stunt double's face.

Amy tweeted.....

Adam Busch (Warren):

Tom Lenk (Andrew):

Ugh, what an obnoxious post from Tom Lenk.

If Amy Acker is indeed one of the actresses Joss had an affair with, he must be breathing a sigh of relief right now over her tweet.

Alyson Hannigan's comment

Amy was a willing participant in her affair with Joss.

She knew it would buy her more screentime and a bump up to the only female cast member lead after Charcoal was canned.

If Andy were here, I have a feeling he would hold nothing back. He was very close with Charnel when they were on the show.

R535, I'm not saying she wasn't a willing participant (I don't even know if they DID have an affair - I'm only going by online gossip). I just mean that he certainly won't want any of the actresses he slept with to go public about it right now.

Amy's statement is about as good as she was going to be able to do. She knows the whole world knows she was Joss's mistress. She took over the female lead from Charisma after her co-star was fired for getting in the boss's bad books (while Amy was getting in the boss's pants).

Aly Hannigan's stony silence is really interesting, though. Even more interesting is the fact that Firefly people haven't chimed in--it wasn't part of the Buffyverse, but it was a Joss show.

I could almost respect Alyson for not saying anything if she doesn’t want to. How weird to be asked to comment on a 20 year old work situation that had nothing to do with you.

After years of fat paychecks on HIMYM (many of which were heavily invested in real estate), Aly has fuck-you money. She doesn't need to do the con circuit to keep her family in comfort, so she may not give a shit what the Buffy fans think.

[quote]Even more interesting is the fact that Firefly people haven't chimed in--it wasn't part of the Buffyverse, but it was a Joss show.

No it isn't.

That's like asking why haven't the casts of Dollhouse or Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. commented.

Charisma wasn't on either show and they'd honestly know zip about her relationship with Joss.

They were all Joss shows. Dollhouse and Firefly cast members commenting on the work environments they experienced is relevant.

If they have nothing relevant to add, why deal with the crazy fans?

[Quote] That's like asking why haven't the casts of Dollhouse or Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. commented.

I wonder if Joss tried anything on Chloe??

Come on, Lea Michele repeat!!

Hmmm....most successful alum.

From an acting stand point, it's clearly Boreanaz. He went from co-star on Buffy to lead on Angel. A year after Angel ended he got the lead on Bones which lasted 12 years. Then he got the lead on some shitty CBS show I never heard of until just now "Seal Team" but the man has been number one on a call sheet on network television shows for over 20 years. Despite the fact he's not that interesting as an actor or especially charismatic or interesting.

Hannigan was a 4th banana on a sitcom for 10 years. Nice residuals but...not the same as being a lead for 20 years.

From a creative standpoint, Danny Strong is clearly the winner with numerous awards and accolades for writing and producing for both television and film while maintaining an acting career that might not be as flashy as the others but...he can also make deals the others can't.

Seth Green comes in 4th even though he's in two big pop culture shows but it also feels kind of one note that he's been doing those two shows for 20 and 15 years.

Poor SMG still has name recognition and she works but she hasn't had a hit for a very long time.

Marsters still chugs along as a fan boy favorite in genre stuff. And, Amber Benson has created a geeky career for herself. And, Emma Caulfield is having a nice little comeback with WandaVision.

Trachtenberg is flailing. And, Nick Brendon and Charisma are probably existing on Cameo fees.

Carpenter and Boreanaz have a genuine lasting friendship. It'll be really funny if that is the key to all of his stories getting blown up like Whedon's

WHET Harmony?

According to Wikipedia, Mercedes McNab married a real estate developer in 2012, had a baby and retired from acting/showbiz.

Aw, she was great as Amanda in Addams family Values.

That was probably a good call on Mercedes' part, though it's a shame she never got another part that showcased her comedy skills as well as Harmony did.

Joss's wife said his first affair was with someone on the set of Buffy. If it was with an actress rather than a crew member, I wonder who she was? Neither Amy Acker nor Summer Glau ever appeared on Buffy.

I guess we'll never know, R552.

Maybe Aly Hannigan. She's been his pet for decades.

I think he had an affair with Julia Lee, AKA Anne Steele, formerly known as Sister Sunshine, Chantarelle, and Lily Houston. She was a bit player on Buffy, and then became a recurring on Angel.

excuse me, guest, not recurring^

R545

Brandon is charging the second highest rate on Cameo (equal with Bailey Chase) for Buffy related celebs. Only Emma Caufield is charging more. Looks like he does all of his laying down in bed.

r555 she looks too mongoloid for Joss.

R557 does Bailey get naked?

Hannigan's statement:

"Uh I... I... I'm sorry that this ha... happ... happened. I... I had no idea... aw-shucks.. this is just... errm well, just AWFUL! Gosh, Cordelia, I...err... I mean Charisma. I wish ya woulda told me sooner!"

I adore Joss Whedon's work but this is all pretty unsurprising.

The reason that Joss pushed James against a wall was because Spike took attention away from Riley and derailed the long-term plans of Buffy having a normal boyfriend.

Everyone hated Riley. Wooden actor.

He should have cast Riley more successfully if he didn't want people shipping Buffy and Spike.

R562, I think it had more to do with Joss resenting the attention James received from female fans, a la beta males whining about "Chads".

Re: Amy Acker and Summer Glau being two of the actresses alleged to have had affairs with Joss:

On Angel and Firefly respectively, they were cast as beautiful geniuses who also happened to be broken Ophelia types (Fred and River). In Dollhouse, they were again both cast as hot scientists (Whisky and Bennett). Fred and Bennett are both idolised by socially awkward nerds, but are killed shortly after reciprocating that attraction. In fact, Whisky is the one who kills Bennett, shortly after telling her "I used to be number one".

In other words, Joss's mind must be quite a strange place.

I think what Joss did was wrong but I see a lot of people twisting Dollhouse into some fantasy for Joss. It's quite clear that the show did not put a positive spin on what was happening to the characters, the issues of rape was in pretty much every episode.

R567, I didn't mean it that way. Dollhouse definitely cast the treatment of the actives as exploitative. I just mean that there are some strange parallels between Acker and Glau's characters.

R544, so did he spill? What has David done? I know about cheating on his wife and the sexual harassment lawsuit. Anything else?

Has Tractenberg clarified her cryptic comment that implied Joss sexually assaulted her (or tried to)? To just drop that bomb and run is really rude

Yeah, she should either come out with the story or she shouldn't have said anything at all. And if it WASN'T some kind of sexual assault, it was really wrong of her to imply it was. Accusing a man of being a misogynistic dickswab is one thing. Accusing him of molesting you when you were a young teenager is quite another.

David settles absurd penis flashing lawsuit with Boner actress.

Would you sue if he flashed you his Boneranez?

Clarissa said David has reached out to her PRIVATELY, unlike some others.

I know you’re there for me, David. I appreciate all you’ve done to demonstrate that support privately as well. (Unlike some other people, ahem Willow Rosenberg.) Especially since Wednesday. -Thank you so much. ♥️

I didn’t know Charisma did Playboy? Was this after her pregnancy and after she was fired from Angel? Was she desperate for money? Did she show her puss too?

How would you like to find this on your white Christmas rug when you come downstairs in the morning? These exclusive Charisma Carpenter photos were the first of their kind when they hit news stands several years ago. When asked if she would ever pose nude for Playboy again she said she wasn't sure.

Those photos at that time in her life were for a specific reason. She had just had a baby and was getting back in shape. It is this website's opinion that Charisma had her first brush with the inevitable loss of beauty that all women face and decided she wanted to immortalize herself if she could ever recover her looks. She did and mankind was the beneficiary. It was like Christmas in June of 2004!

R573, it was nice of her to point out that they spoke privately to get people to lay off of him.

I wouldn't be shocked if SMG did as well. I was also kind of shocked that she only just followed her on Instagram rather than following her in the past as a professional courtesy.

Why would SMG follow her? She probably didn’t even know her name since Coriander left the show so early.

The "intentionally misstating her name" joke is way past tired now, r577.

SMG, Charisma, Alyson, Emma all seem to follow each other on IG and comment on each other's posts. At the very least, they're social media palsy with each other to a certain degree.

Alexis Denisof: You know Aly, I really should make some kind of public stateme-

Alyson Hannigan: If you say one word, ONE FUCKING WORD you'll bring all this shit down on me! Now get in there and take care of the kids. I've got to get work. Christ knows somebody around here has to keep the lights on.

Alexis Denisof: Yes, master.

[Quote] The reason that Joss pushed James against a wall was because Spike took attention away from Riley and derailed the long-term plans of Buffy having a normal boyfriend

Buffy was never going to end up with a normal bf though...

[Quote] Everyone hated Riley. Wooden actor.

I hated Riley too. But in retrospect, he wasn't that bad. I don't think Sarah and Marc got along bts. There was some story about her chewing him out in front of everyone because of some joke he made.

I agree Michelle Trachtenberg needs to clarify what actually happened, given how many people have inferred it was of a sexual nature. She doesn't sound like she's quite "all there", though (which possibly isn't unusual for child stars). I wonder if Michelle's silence will spur Joss to make a statement, actually.

No comments about Nicholas Brendan's statement yesterday saying he couldn't comment on the Joss situation because his penis and anus are currently paralyzed due to a back injury?

I'm not making this up.

WTF, R583?

Nicholas told the truth, though.

“Most of you guys have been really wonderful, but there are a couple that … I don’t owe you a God-damn thing,” he added. “So stop treating any celebrity like they owe you anything statement-wise. They just don’t!”

“While some people think that I owe them a statement, I don’t really owe them a statement right now. This is my life, and these are two people that I love very much.”

He added, “And yes, I do love Joss, and I love CC more than most, and so I’m not just going to give you a statement that’s like ‘my thoughts and prayers go out to the families and the victims.’ I’m not going to do that. I’m going to think about it.”

R583 I've seen the video. It's strange and the guy is clearly out of it from pain killers and whatever other drugs the doctors have him on. The guy has not had an easy life since the show ended, some of that pain brought on himself to be fair.

R585 It reminds me of what happened with Elizabeth Olsen after the death of Chadwick Boseman, a lot of the MCU actors had said something through their social media accounts but Olsen stayed quiet and for that was hounded off social media by those who demanded she say something. It was obvious, by her part in the tribute that aired for him, she was upset at his death but it was strange that some feel that you don't seemingly care unless you pour all your feelings and thoughts over social media.

[quote]some feel that you don't seemingly care unless you pour all your feelings and thoughts over social media.

And when celebrity couples communicate to each other over social, people say, "Keep that to yourselves" or "text that to each other", but something painful fans want it to play out on a national stage.

Team Nick! The bored children demanding statements from everyone involved with the show need to get fucked.

Nick Brendon sounds like he has a bad case of wet brain. It's not surprising his statements sound so odd and hostile.

I'd be pissed too if I just had major surgery and a bunch of whiny idiots were trying to guilt me into giving a statement about something they know nothing about.

Henry Lennix of MAN OF STEEL and JUSTICE LEAGUE was asked about Joss. For the most part, I like his remarks about being able to transcend these things, but it's easy to say when you're not the one who has had to live through it. It seems to me he thinks Ray Fisher is thin-skinned.

Lennix: I wasn’t there during the time in question. I am sorry that anybody had to experience what it was that was described. Obviously, there’s one side of the story that we’ve heard. I don’t know that Joss has made any comments. As you point out, I worked with Joss fairly closely for a couple of years there. I didn’t see that behavior, and at the same time, as an actor, my heart goes out to anybody that had to endure that kind of treatment. We get treated as a second-class citizens frequently. But I did not see it, and I would be curious as to what [Joss’s] response to this has been.

I just hope everybody can move on with their lives, to be honest with you. As a former seminarian, and as somebody who has made mistakes, I’ve been on either side of that equation. Directors sometimes are insensitive to the needs or the feelings of actors, and sometimes actors are needy, and sometimes they are oversensitive. I know I can be. So that said, I hope whatever it was that happened, that people could move on, and — outside of some unforgivable thing — that people can forgive, not just each other, but forgive themselves. To say, “Look, I may have made this mistake in the past, now I know better, and I’m going to do better.” This was a different time. What was tolerable, five years ago, a year ago, is no longer, and we have to adapt to that. I think there’s some of that going on, that this is generational in some way. I know that Ray has it in himself to be better because of this, to be stronger, to have survived it. And I also hope that Joss can, too, that he can survive it, be the writer and creator that that he is and we can all be better because of it.

Variety: Joss hasn’t commented, Ray hasn’t gone public with almost any details about what he says happened on “Justice League,” and WarnerMedia hasn’t revealed what the company learned in its investigation. So figuring out how to move forward is complicated in the absence of detail.

Lennix: I agree, 100%. What I’ve been able to glean from the stories and the back and forth, such as it is — mostly the forth — is that nasty things were said, mean, insensitive things were said, that made certain people uncomfortable. That’s certainly something I’m familiar with actors having to endure. Indeed, that’s part of the process. People say “no” to us for any number of reasons, or tell us to lose weight or gain it or get taller or shorter or younger. That’s just the nature of the business — it’s a personal business. I am of the opinion that this is entirely fixable, and that really what needs to happen is a dialogue. I mean, the old standard in American jurisprudence is you have a right to face your accuser and to respond. I think that people have the right to present both sides of the case. In fact, it’s not just a right, I think it’s an obligation. I wonder what’s going to happen.

Harry "Uncle Tom" Lennix

R593 Calm down Ray.

If Joss hadn't so convincingly crafted a public "nice guy/pro-feminist" image, this wouldn't even be news. He's a victim of his own success, in that sense.

R595 exactly

Lennix is absolutely an Uncle Tom. That statement is shocking. What a punk.

R597 a punk in what way??

Did anyone actually see #TheWhedonCut of Justice League?

It sounds like this guy is an asshole. 80% of us work for assholes, at a whole lot less pay than these actors