Look, a new Hotel Cecil documentary to delight DL

I find it very interesting (ok maybe not that interesting) that fans of unsolved mysteries/murders/true crime shut down ANY discussion of Elisa Lam's disappearance having any element of foul play to it. I've noticed this on the Unresolved Mysteries subreddit and it's strange. Especailly because they'll yammer on about Maura Murray, Andrew Gosden, etc. ad nauseum, but something about Elisa Lam shuts them down and the conversation begins and ends with her being mentally ill.

R1 Considering that she was MENTALLY ILL and clearly behaving like it, that’s the most realistic conclusion to make.

Wait. Are you with QAnon?

I watched two episodes so far. I find the bits about the Cecil's unsavory history to be the best part. That really is a scuzzy part of downtown, and to use a word I don't much care for, the hotel really does feel creepy. I can't believe 80 people died in that hotel during that hotel manager lady's tenure.

I wouldn't spend a night there.

that poor girl. let her rest.

I'm not sure how they're gonna stretch this thing out to four full episodes though.

Is it worth watching?

This is at least better than Zak Bagans' episode where he said ghosts haunted Elisa Lam.

R6, I liked the two episodes I've seen so far. I'm not an expert on the case though.

Dumb

I want to kill all the sleuths. What a bunch of assholes!

2 episodes in and I agree, the stories of the hotel, the history, and the rebranding of a portion of the skid row as a youth hostel is interesting. There are a lot of beautiful old hotels downtown that are now places like the Cecil. The Hotel Alexandria used to have the best raves and was like this. I didn't follow the case. It's worth finishing.

Good grief, she was bipolar, wasn’t taking her meds, probably did some other drugs she got from some skeeve in LA, bugged out, climbed into the water tank, and died.

These “websleuths” are creaming their jeans at being featured on Netflix.

R11, yeah, the Cecil is only one of many seedy hotels in downtown. The Rosslyn and King Eddy are other mixed SRO/hotels which used to be glamorous but have fallen into disrepair.

Just watched it. I’m convinced now that it was an accident. The websleuths as a group are scary.

The Chinese are pretty clear-eyed about what the West is doing to itself. The baizuo are in charge and tearing everything down on behalf of certain favored groups.

Wrong thread sorry

What was up with that elevator door though?

R17, she pressed the hold button: it keeps the elevator open and stationary for two minutes. It’s the last button in the middle row of buttons, all of which she pressed. It’s addressed in the new docuseries.

[quote] I'm not sure how they're gonna stretch this thing out to four full episodes though.

This is the problem with Netflix. They draw everything out and end up with overlong, melodramatic schlock. I guess it's cheaper to do that than to produce multiple one- or two- part documentaries.

Were there ever details released on the complaints made by her bunk mates?

It’s i detailed n the new series, R20.

It isn't detailed. It's the same canned response, "she was acting erratic and they complained."

the web sleuths are painfully pathetic.

Only Ryan Murphy could take inspiration from a place like this and reduce it to production design and scare-less camp.

After watching it, i recommend skipping right to the last episode. Everything before that is just jerking the viewer's chain. Also, I do not believe there is any mystery here (don't want to spoil). Agree with commenter who called the web sleuths pathetic.

R19 Yep, another "documentary" that could be presented in 60 minutes.... stretched out for 4 (or sometime even more) episodes.

Once bitten twice shy: Now I see a documentary series like this on Netflix, watch the first couple minutes... the loooooooong shots of an object, with dramatic music, and slow and ponderous narrative... and I conclude, "nope, life is too short..."

OK bitches — just finished watching all four episodes. Agree: Skip to the fourth.

I had no idea there was a death metal rocker people were accusing of being the killer. Poor guy -- sounds like those stupid internet vigilantes really hounded him.

R22, they said she wouldn’t let them back into the shared room, demanded a password, and left weird notes for them.

[quote]OK bitches --- just finished watching all four episodes. Agree: skip to the fourth.

Interesting...my Netflix froze up at the beginning of episode four (where the web sleuths start harassing the death metal guy), and I figured there was nothing more to be learned from this bloated doc. So is it worth going back to?

R30, after teasing all variety of homicide/conspiracy/ghostly theories, the documentary winds back to the most logical explanation-- Elisa was bipolar, off her meds, and had a psychotic episode that led to her own tragic accident.

If they ever make a movie, Ramona Young is most definitely playing Elisa.

R31 Oh, okay; yeah, I knew all that...no need to go back, then. Thanks!

Netflix needs to learn not everything is binge-worthy.

Scott Michaels posted the Hotel Cecil/Elisa Lam "mystery" on YouTube this week; the whole saga is under 15 minutes. Watch this and you've pretty much seen the Netflix doc.

What was up with the tuberculosis test being named LAM ELISA?

I felt awful for her family during that press conference.

That hotel manager was pure trash. She can't be arsed to care. If you're in trouble and in need of help, she won't call cops or ambulance because "they won't show up anyway." What the fuck kind of reasoning is that? I lost count of the dumb shit she said.

r13 - A couple of years ago I found this glass dresser tray at the swap meet.

Looks like it was nice, back in the day...

R38, that's very cool!

A friend of mine went loft-hunting at the Rosslyn about ten years back and it's very cool inside. Like the Cecil, it's a mixed-income situation where you have urban professionals on some floors and low-income units on other floors. It didn't give me the dark vibes of the Cecil though.

R37, I actually liked the hotel manager lady. She came across as honest and no BS to me. You'd have to be sort of a tough broad to manage a place like the Cecil -- and a woman at that -- right next to Skid Row. Being familiar with that area, I know she must have seen all sorts of craziness day in and day out, and so it's not too surprising that Elisa's behavior in comparison wasn't too beyond the pale.

I do feel for that British couple who drank that decomposing body water though!

It isn't so bad if you add a lemon slice, r41.

What I learned from episode 1: don't drink brown water that smells.

R2-R1 I went into this rabbit hole about Elisa Lam and didn't they say that it would have been nearly impossible for her to have gotten into that water tank and shut the lid by herself? Also, wasn't video missing from that night? No matter what happened, it was very creepy and disturbingly sad.

in tge series they talked to the maintenance man who said the hatch was open when he climbed up. They mistranslated what he said in his statement that it was closed. I think he didn't realize he slammed it shut in horror (if that's how it all happened)

The UK couple must have a collective IQ of 80.

They'd never been to Los Angeles, booked a hotel not even knowing what it looked like, didn't research the area, wandered around downtown drunk, bathed in brown water, and then decided to drink said brown water.

R45- Thanks! That makes sense. It would be even more tragic than it already is if she were murdered, so that is good news.

She started Covid..

For the ppl here who have stayed at or visited the hotel, what experiences or feeling did you get! See anything unusual?

Which show’s live recording did she attend and get ejected from because of her note to the talent? They never said.

[quote]It isn't detailed. It's the same canned response, "she was acting erratic and they complained."

I thought it was "She smelled like old chow mein and left her Hello Kitty shit on other people's bunk beds."

[quote]Which show’s live recording did she attend and get ejected from because of her note to the talent? They never said.

The Bob Baker Marionette Theater. She called the performance, "wooden."

She entered the water tank because she was obviously having a Shape of Water style romance with an amphibian creature.

Back in the early 90's F. Murray Abraham would pick up street trade from Santa Monica Blvd and Hotel Cecil was his crash pad.

R54, did F. Murray pick up guys or chicks or chicks-with-dicks?

Agreed if you are familiar with the case skip to episode 4. Episode 1-3 is just a Netflix string along. Save yourself 3 hours.

I have so far watched the first two episodes, and find it an interesting recap, with a little more detail than what I was aware of. I am familiar with the case and remember it making the rounds online back in 2013–2014. The video footage from the elevator really freaked me out. It still bothers me to watch it, especially when she's making the bizarre motions with her hands. I find it very disturbing.

That aside, I have to agree that the cluelessness of some of these documentary subjects is shocking. The British couple who ended up drinking/bathing in Lam's decomposing corpse water are utterly naive, and the hotel manager has to be one of the most insouciant people on the face of the planet.

For what it's worth, Lam herself was also naive—no traveler who ends up staying at the Cecil does so on purpose. Lam, like the British couple, did not do enough research before booking that stay. It didn't turn out great for either of them, but at least the bumbling Brits didn't die (though they did unwittingly drink rotting corpse tea, which is truly horrifying).

I thought that it was common knowledge that downtown LA is a shitbox, even to people from other countries. Apparently not.

That English couple wasn't very bright.

People watch TV and think all of the L.A. area is like Malibu.

In tired of these shitty documentary series where they take some random theory or subject and pretend like it’s some big groundbreaking lead - and 12 episodes later reveal it’s actually nothing.

There was another suicide at the hotel after the Elisa case.

[quote]People watch TV and think all of the L.A. area is like Malibu.

That's true. The British couple definitely thought so. This seems more common with people in foreign countries. They think LA is all Hollywood and glamour and fabulous, they have no idea.

Americans, even Americans in Bumfucke flyoverville, have a more realistic picture of LA and American cities in general. They know that every city in the US has its shitty awful areas.

Why would her floating body affect the water pressure?

Brits/Eurpeans also don't get that American Hostels are not the same as European Hostelling, at least back in 2013. To be fair, they did rebrand and refurnish part of the hotel complete with separate lobby to accommodate tourists. The photos are of the Santa Monica pier from what Netflix showed. Still, you could easily do the research, especially someone like Lam who lived online. Ultimately, I just did;t care about Elisa Lam. She's not the interesting it was clear pretty early on she was having a manic psychotic episode and had an accident. The only thing I question is how fucking out of your mind do you have to be to jump in a water tank.

You just have to be sensible when you’re traveling. I think the UK couple were probably traveling outside of their budget and didn’t have a lot of options. But a whole week? I can see having this issue before the internet, but not now. Brown water? Hell no. And why would you drink it?

The comment about entering 1986 when you got in the elevator made me LOL.

That hotel sounded like hell in the 1980s with that footage of those bloody mattresses

The asshole hotel manager took her sweet ass time getting those tanks checked. Careless bitch.

Just finished all episodes. A sad end for someone who suffered from mental illness. I have to say I was absolutely INCENSED (MARY!) during the first episodes that focused on the fucking conspiracy theorist “web sleuths”. These are the same types of fuckers who (historically) accuse people of being witches, or join QAnon, or deny any facts that don’t support their warped reality. I’m glad those shitheads came around in the end to eat their words.

People need to stop treating people the internet like an encyclopedia. Shit online isn’t always what it appears to be. That’s one of the messages of this doc, and why we have all these dumb people following Trump, QAnon, and every other stupid thing they find online.

I liked the hotel manager. She was a tough no-nonsense broad who was there to do her job, which was to be the hotel's general manager. She wasn't there to be the therapist/life coach of everybody who came through the hotel. It's ridiculous to think anyone would do that.

Sorry —treating the internet— stupid autocorrect

[quote]That hotel manager was pure trash. She can't be arsed to care. If you're in trouble and in need of help, she won't call cops or ambulance because "they won't show up anyway."

Lam was acting weird in the lobby, but she wasn't threatening or violent to anyone. Nobody in LA is going to call the cops just because someone is acting weird.

But isn’t there actual training in hotel management? Why would you hire someone with no experience in hotel management to run that freak show? She was brave but unrealistic.

The trashy hotel manager had zero experience. It bloody matters.

Hotel manager didn't come off as intelligent, just inappropriate at times.

There was a similar case where this girl was acting strange at a restaurant and was picked up by cops but let go because she seemed OK. However, turns out she was probably undiagnosed bipolar. She disappeared and they found her in the middle of nowhere, dead. Patents sued and won millions because they didn’t hold her in the station. I think the parents were trying to do the same thing. But why allow their daughter - who has a major mental health issue - to roam the world alone?

What kind of serious illness could you get from drinking corpse tea?

Isn’t that how they think COVID started in China - from consuming uncooked exotic animals?

If the water was brown and smelly, why would you use it?

She said it was tangy or something—GROSS.

It probably tasted like English porridge

I just don’t get it—brown water is a dealbreaker.

On a budget or not — wouldn’t stay for another second if the water was all brown and nasty 🤢.

As for the hotel manager: I like her, too. She had a big place to run (700 rooms is HUGE), lots of shifts, deliveries, repairs and other ongoing shit to deal with — the daily operations alone consumed her entire day.

Yesterday some old geezer walked around in his pyjamas without his teeth, the day before a Russian lady asked at what time the Tsar was to arrive, and today some Chinese chick flapped her hands and said she was crazy.

After years of witnessing that (mostly innocent) spectacle at your front desk, you just grow numb; tell them to go back to their rooms and to be a good dear — and you‘ll go back to getting the delivery of 2400 paper roles sorted out.

“And today some Chinese chick flapped her hands and said she was crazy.”

Be careful - don’t end up on a Netflix documentary!

I'm from Bumfuck, New Zealand, and even I know that downtown LA is a shit hole. The Brit couple were thick as pig shit. Anyone who has internet access should know that tourists going to Los Angeles to visit 'Hollywood' is a running joke for Americans - or at least people who live in LA.

Yes - Hollywood is a shithole tourist trap .

Watching it now.

Still don't understand the deal with the Mexican Death Metal guy. I guess it was just an example of the cyber bullying possible (sending him to a mental institution?) when a story like this goes around the world to millions and millions. But the way he was filmed only "demonized" him more.

R49, I visited the lobby with friends just for kicks when I was in the area. Lots of sketchy-looking dudes (junkies and ex-con offenders) coming in and out of the lobby, mingling with bewildered-looking European tourists checking in. The lobby itself is ornate and impressive, but with that crowd it felt like half-backpacker hostel, half homeless SRO.

Those internet sleuths were all such a bunch of fucking losers.

Four episodes were three too many. Right from the beginning, I said - did the maintenance guy find the lid opened or closed? But no, they gotta go on for 3 more episodes with all the conspiracy bullshit. Waste of fucking time, Netflix. Do better.

R91, yeah, I'm not believing that they felt so deeply connected with Elisa through her Tumblr posts. They wanted more clicks for their blogs or Youtube channels more likely..

As others have said, this whole story could've been told in one episode. The "mystery" was pretty obvious from the beginning.

I frankly found the cult of weirdos who espoused having some sort of kinship with Elisa stranger than many of the facts of her case. The one incel web sleuth guy with dark hair who was interviewed throughout talked about her as if they had been intimate. It was very creepy how much he venerated her, or rather, his abstract idea of who she was.

Same, r95. It was creepy.

Do you mean the guy who seemed gay, R95?

Yes, R97

R97, my first thought when I saw him was that he should get together with Paul Haynes from the I'll Be Gone in the Dark documentary. They could be such a gay websleuth power couple, solving internet true crimes together...

have never been to that hotel but could tell from looking at it from the outside that it is surrounded with dark energy.

I would totally fuck Paul Haynes.

R100- same. Even before I was aware of the dark history it gave off negative energy to me. Could not pay me to go inside that place. Shudder.

[quote] Nobody in LA is going to call the cops just because someone is acting weird.

R73, exactly. Especially not in that area where there are crack/meth-heads ODing inside hotels and encampments. Some Canadian college girl acting a little bit funny is not going to be some suspicious high priority for cops down there.

Is corpse water good for the skin to bathe in?

The whole thing was very little to do with the Cecil, and 90% about Elisa Lam. I wanted more about the weirdos that stayed there, the shit that went down there. There was a little of it sprinkled in, but that's what I was looking for.

R105- Yes, me too. Still can not freaking believe they drank decomposition water.😲😲😲😲😲😲😲🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢

Netflix is on fire with the documentaries. I have seen first 2 episodes and not read any replies here. I like to see if anyone notices the shit I notice before reading replies.

Anybody feeling that this blonde hotel manager is enjoying the spotlight WAY too much? She is annoying the hell out of me. There are moments I like her, and then its like this bitch LOVES/CRAVES attention!!!

Anyway, Elisa was actually very pretty. And that tampered with time stamp is probably the clue of the case OR a massive red herring with a simple explanation... So far, I suspect that she was murdered by a long time tenant of that place.

R107 They explain the time stamp issue with the video later on in the documentary, I think in part 4.

I watched it all but found the "web sleuths" to be hard to listen to. They almost gave me a headache (Mary)!

I like travelling, but I'm quite risk adverse when it comes to hotel and airbnb locations. So I cannot relate these people (esp. the British couple) not doing ANY research about where they are staying. Even a simple google search for "downtown Los Angeles" would shed light on your hotel being on skid row. Even if you're not FROM the country or city you are visiting, how do people not do a damn search online to see what's going on there? Hell, even just looking up a map!

Fun Fact: the manager of the Hotel Cecil sells jewelry online now. Managing a shithole hotel like this must destroy your soul.

I thought Amy Price (hotel manager) was Brett Butler at first. The resemblance is uncanny.

R107 - the entire series up to the last few minutes of episode 4 is nothing but one big, red herring.

We Brits expect the foreign water to be brown and disgusting, I'm not at all surprised that the tourists drank it.

Who was that serial killer that got a boob job and sort of became trans in prison and said that if people knew how much fun he was having in prison, they would release him?

And the sweet couple who drank decomposition water are my favorites. What a sweet couple. I also like the Maintenance Man. You can tell that man worked his ass off his entire life.

Everything I said a few posts ago has already turned to shit. No signs of any foul play/rape/-

This is fucked.

Almost done with Episode 3. I cannot wait to read the comments after I finish.

R112 Richard Speck, but what does he have to do with anything?

AH fuck it. I am calling it now.

She stopped taking her medication consistently or at all-

She clearly was having delusions, visions, and other things.

I am now thinking she did indeed climb up on that water tank and jump in.

She was basically tripping and in a parallel universe.

Every other weird clue is a red herring.

15 minutes into the last episode and I am over it.

R111 You need to love yourselves.

The hotel manager is a flake.

Fuck! I actually should have read your comments first!

This doc should have been 2 episodes.

There is no way she was murdered. My guess is that she really thought someone or something was after her. And/or the voices told her to climb on the water tank. She probably thought it was a place "to hide".

This documentary was a whole lot of nothing. I am surprised that with this very clear evidence that these websleuthers really thought this was foul play? The first 10 minutes of Episode 4 confirm everything. That attractive doctor explained it perfectly.

I didn't know before that it's a hostel where Elisa stayed - within the hotel. I thought that's false advertising. She had bunkmates but sadly, she died on the night the management put her on a separate room by herself. That move must have sent her off to the deeper end.

Thanks, R114!

curious what live show taping she went to in Burbank . She was kicked out by security because she was acting strangely and was also trying to deliver a handwritten letter to the host of the show

weird fact I had no idea about before this documentary ...

Bipolar people who go off their meds can have a psychotic break where they think people are after them and their lives are in danger. Of course it's all in their heads, but to them it's very real. It's not uncommon.

The same thing happened to a UMASS Dartmouth student a few years before Alissa Lam. Exact same scenario of a psychotic break, but in his case he was never found.

I did find the similarity to the movie Dark Water was weird.

Yea, Elisa was overwhelmed and undermedicated. It would have to be scary for a petite woman to travel alone.

She must have been truly tortured during those moments captured in the elevator. She clearly thought someone was sabotaging the elevator when SHE was the one keeping the door open. Very sad.

R124 I can also understand how running into the non-tourist residents of the Hotel Cecil and skid row wouldn’t be pleasant for someone like Elisa without a mental illness. But for someone un medicated and mentally ill? I think being in the presence of the skid row populace could set someone off. Just being around sketchy, rough people could have exacerbated and paranoid delusions or suspicions she could have had.

The entire thing has been debunked. She was mentally ill and the tops were off the tanks. One dude even went there personally showing this on YouTube. It was extremely easy to get up to. There’s no mystery.

Netflix should be ashamed of themselves for exploiting this young women’s death.

Crazy or not, why on earth would you want to drown yourself in one of those dark tanks in that shit hole. What an awful way to go.

With all the truly mysterious cases out there, I wonder why they chose this one where there's no mystery at all.

[quote] It would have to be scary for a petite woman to travel alone.

And that particular area is really not a good place for an inexperienced, solo, young female traveler to set up as her base for exploring LA.

That one guy with the gay voice, he has to be gay right? He was one of the web sleuths.

I agree with the person upthread who asked why the parents would let her travel in that state. I realize that she was an adult though, and they couldn't really stop her even if they wanted to. If she wanted to travel they had to let her.

She needed a conservatorship!

[quote]What kind of serious illness could you get from drinking corpse tea?

Lamphoma, Rose.

R131 with Chinese parents, a firm “no” would have done the trick.

I see Ron Howard is an executive producer of this shitty mess.

R135, I noticed that at the very end of the series, too.

[quote] curious what live show taping she went to in Burbank . She was kicked out by security because she was acting strangely and was also trying to deliver a handwritten letter to the host of the show

Possibly The Ellen Show; it's taped at Warner Studios in Burbank.

After thinking about this, and being a bit of a new age whoo-woo.

I completely think that she was undereducated, having serious delusions and hearing voices.

However, that fucking hotel has some DARK fucking energy surrounding it, and that was 20-30% of her fate..

But she was clearly mentally ill.

But we live in many realities- and the combination of the two in Elisa's case- were fucking horrible.

^^ Jesus Christ! UNDERMEDICATED!

I feel like Junior Soprano sometimes!

Wow, bloated beyond belief. Took the advice of others here and just watched the last episode. All the bloggers and "online investigators" only showed how groups like Qanon get started. Everything is a conspiracy and they are all doing their "research" to figure everything out, and they get so far gone down their rabbit holes, they lose their sense of reality.

When it comes to conspiracies, I always think how hard it is for just two people to keep a secret. One or both of them usually blab to someone about it. Now think about how many people would have to be involved in any of the big conspiracy theories we hear about. It's statistically impossible for things of that magnitude to remain secret, there are just too many people who would have to be in on it.

I liked the series.

R142, it had its moments.

Why did Elisa want to stay at the Cecil Hotel?

She wanted to try out their rooftop pool R144.

She was a Richard Ramirez groupie R145

Way too long, it could have been a 90 minute documentary.

If she was hallucinating and wasn’t on LSD or something, wouldn’t it make more sense for her to be schizophrenic than bipolar? I knew a girl who was initially diagnosed as bipolar but as she got older, in her early 30s, she was diagnosed as ‘schizoaffective’ — she was way crazier than your average bipolar person, who can be fine and stabilized with the right medication.

People with bipolar I can experience symptoms of psychosis during the manic phase.

They could have done more with the hotel's history, highlighting the lesser-known crimes, etc

Tough crowd. I've been obsessed with the Cecil for awhile (and other old storied hotels) and when I heard this doc was coming out I was psyched. I honestly didn't know it had such a cult following. I'm not a weird crime sleuth, just fascinated and intrigued by it. When I lived in Los Angeles, I liked to go around downtown and take photos, the area is fairly creepy and sketchy- and once walked in the Cecil lobby. Although now it is closed. I love the show so far and will probably watch it a few times. I think they do a good job of giving background history to the beginnings of the area. And the hotel manager,Amy, is nothing like you would expect. Very odd woman but glad they got the interview. I worked with two people in this documentary, John and Kim. Kim Cooper has a wonderful tour company that covers LA crime spots, etc.

I do not get the obsession with Lam or the hotel.

(I am so overwhelmed by Netflix Originals that I believe if I lived until 100 years, I will not be able to consume that much airtime).

The reviews say this is a manipulative, padded, insensitive piece of shit documentary.

Why didn't the patrons of the hotel sue for drinking that water?

R155 It's fucked up that the water tank lid wasn't even closed/locked in the first place. What about bugs or animals getting into the tank?! Ick!!! 🤢🤮

It never evoked glamour...

Boring after part two.

The Tonight Show with Jay Leno was filmed at the old NBC Studios in Burbank til 2014 as well.

Elisa definitely didn't do her LA research. You have to know that when going to any kind of a taping or event and you make any effort to talk, communicate, ask for autographs, pictures or anything from a celebrity much less the star of a show you will be immediately be considered some kind of a threat and most likely crazy. Stalker signs are an easy flag to any handler or network.

I think it would have been more interesting if they had showed all the weird shit that happened there over the years.

Did the British couple sue?

Don't they have any filters between the rooftop water tanks and the hotel faucets?! Sickening. And the English couple bathing and DRINKING the brown corpse water?! Why? I'd have bought some Poland Springs if I decided to stay there, which I wouldn't have. Dumb LA cops. You'd think they would have checked the damned water tanks when they did their "exhaustive" search. Yuck.

Maybe she suffered from travel related psychosis?

If you on the Eliza Lam discussion page on Facebook, there’s actually footage of Lam during the taping of the show (cant recall the name; not a show of even heard of)

Apparently the Cecil is closed and was expected to reopen last year but Covid has postponed it

I will never understand how EL not only got to past the locked door to the roof, but how she climbed up one of those huge thanks and fit through the small tank lid. Sadly, there are many ppl who take advantage of the mentally ill, especially a mentally ill young women. I am not saying she was murdered, just that I have never believed it was completely ruled out. Potential lawsuits seemed to be their worry, not her true fate. An employee of the hotel would have a key to the roof.

Why were her clothes off completely?

R166 I wondered that too, but the lids aren't small enough that a person COULDN'T fit inside of them

Occam's Razor. Nothing more. Those web sleuth people are insane bordering on being QAnon nuts.

Did she die a virgin?

R167, in the final episode of the docuseries, they say that she was likely trying to stay afloat in the water. The level was likely not high enough for her to have climbed out, and it was also fluctuating because it was being used by the hotel. So when the water level dropped, she had to keep treading and likely took off all her clothes because they were weighing her down. Eventually she got too fatigued and drowned.

Alternatively, she might have experienced hypothermia and disrobed (paradoxical undressing).

Sometimes I feel sorry for severely mentally ill, delusional people, other times I just think, “You crazy, stupid bitch...”

[quote]And the English couple bathing and DRINKING the brown corpse water?!

They’re doing interviews now and claiming the water was clear but tasted a little Lammy when they were drinking it. While the water pressure was low, the water was clear; when the pressure came back, the water started coming out brown.

They also said they couldn’t describe the taste of the water water because they had never tasted anything like it. That’s what made them think it might not be safe to drink but that it was probably okay for showers, brushing teeth, and — Are you ready? — making coffee and tea.

I’ll see if I can find the article.

They weren’t from the UK.

R168- Thank you for the link. I had been looking at still photos and now see your point about the lids. The tanks, however, are more massively large than the stills show How would EL had even known how to get to the tanks unless shown? I never bought the paranormal activity hype, albeit the elevator video is disturbingly creepy, I believe it was murder . Now is it possible she found the right locked door to the roof and managed to open it with no key? Yes, a hotel employee could have left it unlocked But I do not understand how this petite young woman climbed atop one of those hugh tanks with no help or encouragement from someone else. How would she have even known about the tanks or their location through that one locked door. I think a longtime resident or employee killed her and the hotel covered for them because of bad publicity and potential lawsuits.

Interview 1:

[quote]However, despite what viewers might think, Mike has explained that they didn’t actually drink the water when it was discoloured.

[quote]‘Nobody in the hotel drank brown water, the water wasn’t coming out discoloured,’ he told us.

[quote]‘There was a low water pressure, so the water was just coming out slowly and it wasn’t discoloured at this point.’

[quote]‘When we were complaining, the water was clear but it just tasted odd,’ he added.

[quote]He continued: ‘But when the water pressure came back, that is what you saw on the footage of the documentary, where it came out brown.

[quote]‘Of course, that was because the pressure came back and it really came out at that point, but when it was clogged it was just coming out a normal colour.

[quote]‘Everyone was having a shower with it, you’re brushing your teeth with it, washing your face with it, but at the low pressure it wasn’t discoloured.’

Interview 2:

[quote]“I can't describe the taste because I have never drunk anything terrible enough to compare it to,” says Mike.

[quote]“We knew that it might not be safe to drink so we had bought lots of bottled water anyway but we were showering, brushing our teeth, drinking coffee and tea and all the utensils we used had been washed with the water from the water tank on the roof.

[quote]“Also some nights were so hot and, being from the UK, we weren't used to the heat so we drank all of our bottled water.

[quote]“Then we got thirsty in the middle of the night, but we couldn't go down to the lobby, because we didn't want to walk through the stinky corridors. It was creepy at night because there were lots of mentally unwell, homeless people staying there. So we ended up drinking water from the tap.

[quote]“After they moved us, we noticed the water was more discoloured. It was transparent, but with yellowy-brown tinge. But what we really noticed was the low water pressure.”

I've known two people who had never traveled on their own and subsequently got anxiety and became overwhelmed to the point of freaking out in a foreign country. I have to wonder that being alone in a strange place where you are coming across types of people you've never been exposed to before triggered something in her already fragile mind.

The elevator footage shows someone who is having hallucinations. I think she probably did have a psychotic break from travelling alone and in unfamiliar places and the area around the Cecil is very unsavory.

R177 And not just different types of people in the general sense. I can't imagine being in her state of mind and running into the people on Skid Row. I wonder if she did ANY sort of research before she chose that hotel or not, I guess they did try re-brand it at Stay on Main so maybe it wasn't easy for her to find out information, or she didn't care. Or maybe she thought she could handle it because she was from Vancouver, she couldn't have been unfamiliar with the existence of the Downtown Eastside. I really can't imagine the desire to stay in a hotel just off of Skid Row.

What's the big deal?

She was also clearly the product of a very protective family who no doubt sheltered her from a lot of the "real" world.

R181, that's such bullshit. If she was so sheltered and her family so protective they never would have allowed her to come to LA by herself.

It was pretty surreal watching this doc after hearing "Free Britney!" nonstop for 5 days. The idiot webslueths remind me a lot of the Britney fanatics who think they are experts on conservatorships from decoding her Instagram. Frankly it was irresponsible of Netflix to let them run their mouths for 3 full episodes before we got to some actual facts.

In what is becoming a Netflix staple, this was was too many episodes. So much ridicuIous filler--I lost counts of the aerial shots of the Cecil and the long camera pans of the side of the building. One thing I did like though is that they took the time to show how Skid Row was created, that is was not some organic pop up slum. We don't talk about how ghettos and slums are the result of deliberate policies, we just like to pretend they reflect poor individual choices. It was a good and necessary backdrop to remind viewers that this is not just a one-off sad story.

R181 is just making shit up.

I believe in the documentary it was revealed some real concern about her travelling alone from her family R182. She was old enough so it's not like they could forcibly keep her. She was definitely sheltered.

^ Yes, it's so odd that her family would be concerned about their daughter, who has Bipolar 1 and a poor track record of staying on her meds, traveling alone. The only possible explanation is they were overprotecting and sheltering her.

I'm making a comment and stating an opinion R186. Why are you so invested in this?

I'm not so invested as to make up shit about this woman's family. That's all you.

I still think a doc on all of the murders, suicides, overdoses, celebs and serial killers would be fascinating. Not just focus on Lam.

R188, he also doesn't want to admit that the total basis for his opinion is because the family is Asian. Overprotective, sheltered, Asian. Get it?

and you'd be wrong R190. Some of you new freaks are hilarious. I've been here since 95 and the newer DL trolls are, well, interesting to put it mildly.

And how would I be wrong R191, Just because you've been here since 95 doesn't make you right, it makes you old.

Not really old little one but if it makes you feel better go on.

R168 thanks for the video, by the silhouette it looks like it was taken by a heavily pregnant woman? Weird

R174 I suspect she wasn't deliberately looking for the water tanks, she just ended up on the roof due to her mental state. There are ladders to get to the top of the tanks, otherwise how could that poor maintenance man have got up there? Plus, she was on the 14th floor in that elevator clip, seemingly of her own free will.

R182 her family couldn't hold a 21yo prisoner. The documentary made it clear the tried to stop her. Elisa was expected to call home each day. The first day she failed to call they seem to have reported her missing.

[quote]They weren’t from the UK.

They were from Plymouth, England. That's the UK.

What floor was the elevator on in that video?

Was it the lobby?

This was interesting and I feel for the girl she was so young but my god those internet sleuth people are such hysterical looms. And talk about making it all about you. Hopefully I’ll be able to stay at the Cecil after it reopens.

Oops I meant loons

[quote] Hopefully I’ll be able to stay at the Cecil after it reopens.

I love that the new owners are planning a rooftop bar and swimming pool...

They're batshit and have no lives r197. And the way they witchhunt people and try to destroy their lives based on no solid evidence is disturbing.

Yeah like that stuff about that musician Morbid. Wtf he was just a harmless weirdo it was so obvious. Had these people never met a goth before?

She was on drugs or having a mental breakdown.

Her death bothered me so because of her mental illness. My daughter is bipolar and I know first hand how vulnerable she is and heartless people take advantage of mental illness, particularly if it is a young, pretty female. It isn't that I am unable to understand how she could have ended up in the tank through her manic state, it is that I do not feel they felt her important enough to properly investigate. These people are often overlooked as insignificant to police.

[quote] They were from Plymouth, England. That's the UK.

Was the girl British? I got the sense from her accent that she was from somewhere else, but lives in England.

For those curious about the Cecil's future:

[quote] The newly refurbed hotel is set to include a very fancy lounge, gym and rooftop pool. While you couldn't pay us to stay there - if you do fancy a trip - it's thought to be reopening in October, but nothing is confirmed yet

Wouldn't you wanna party up there?

Not even if someone paid me. No. Very dark energy.

I had never heard of Jack Unterweger before this doc. What a creep!

R205, I'll pass. They can make it as fancy as possible, but it's still right next to skid row. Also, what about the residents? I thought it was legally required that it remain partially a residence.

To me buildings are no different than people. Some you should avoid. Just like some people, they a have dark, negative energy and presence. Avoid at all costs.

[quote] Also, what about the residents?

Good question. I believe the plan is to maintain the Cecil as half-hotel/half-affordable units for low income residents -- a lot of downtown buildings have to follow this requirement.

What I think they're going to try to do is work around that requirement by filling those affordable, low-income units with clueless FIDM or USC students instead of the usual Skid Row crowd.

Why the hell would you pay for a luxury hotel right in the middle of Skid Row?

It really is a hellhole in that neighborhood, it looks post-apocalyptic, like Mad Max.

R210- I read that too. Just like R211 has said, wth would want to shop there in the center of a crime ridden getto? Make it make sense!

r212 I've driven through Skid Row, in the middle of the day, and even then it was disgusting. Like I said above, it looks post apocalyptic. I wouldn't even get out of my car in that neighborhood to get gas at noon on a weekday, never mind walk around at night. I cannot imagine why anyone with any money would even think of staying in that area.

R211, there are certain personalities who like that very dense, urban decay, big city, dangerous vibe. I have a friend who lives blocks from the Cecil. I think if he could, he would have lived in '70s Times Square NY, or whenever it was at its seediest... And this is a person with a well-paying salary.

Not for me personally, especially after hearing some of the problems of downtown living, i.e. no green park space, sometimes he can't sleep because of noise from bars and people screaming. Yikes, no thanks.

I liked that they managed to shoe horn in the mention of the night stalker... which Netflix also made a doc about. Shocking!

I noticed that too, R216, lol. Predictable.

R215, coming soon to Netflix -- a six episode series on serial killer Jack Unterweger, with tie-ins to the Cecil, Elisa Lam, and Richard Ramirez...

R215 That detail seemed crazy to me, wasn't it that he'd like change out of his bloody clothes in the alley way and like... go to his room naked and covered in blood or something equally insane? A detail that was missing from the Nightstalker documentary, funnily enough.

That freaked me out too @R218 Wouldn’t someone have called the police? I know it’s supposed to be seedy but wouldn’t someone be like “hey there is a naked guy covered in blood running around. Maybe we should do something?”

I was curious about how the Hotel Cecil re-branded itself as Stay on Main, so I looked at their website from 2012 via the waybackmachine.

I can see how stupid people MIGHT fall for how the way they chose to describe the hotel. Their website makes no mention of "Hotel Cecil."

[quote]Stay on Main is the hippest boutique hotel and hostel in downtown Los Angeles. We are located in the heart of LA’s Historic Core, surrounded by many of the newest and hottest restaurants, bars and night- clubs in downtown Los Angeles, California. We are located one mile to LA LIVE, minutes by Metro to famous Hollywood, short walk to the fashion, toy, jewelry districts and flower mart. Also, minutes by bus to China Town, Little Tokyo and USC…or hop on the bus right outside the front door for a unique site seeing ride to Santa Monica beach.

^The other people in the hotel were probably strung out on drugs and thought he got into a losing fight. They weren't going to call the cops and incriminate/call attention to themselves.

OMG r220 the lies that corporations tell! That whole blurb is total fiction regarding that neighborhood. So much bullshit marketing and PR out there in the world.

R222 It's really something else, isn't it?

[quote]Located in downtown Los Angeles, the very first Stay on Main is situated near tourist attractions and sightseeing including the Los Angeles Convention Center, The Staples Center, LA Live, the fabric district, the jewelry district, the flower mart, The Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising, Little Tokyo, Chinatown, and the new Broadway theater district. All of LA's famous tourist attractions, from Hollywood to Disneyland, are easily reachable from our location.

R222 and R223 - I was disgusted at how self-satisfied and proud the hotel manager was at the clever "rebranding." The mendacity! Disgusting greedy corporate prostitution whores.

R223, that's not totally false advertising. The hotel is accessible to all of those areas. They just conveniently omit the fact that it's smackdab right next to dangerous skid row.

[quote]We are located in the heart of LA’s Historic Core

That's not false advertising, that is literally the name of the area the hotel is in. The Historic Core is the name of the prewar downtown centered along Broadway, Spring and Main Streets which subsequently went to seed when they built the new central business district on top of Bunker Hills.

I would be PISSED if I read that false advertisement and ended up in that fucking place. Seriously angry because to me that is putting my life in danger in that area. They may want to rethink that because if someone gets hurt, say raped, robbed, ect. they may get sued.

R226 You're right, it's not false advertising, but... it's not exactly truthful.

A simple Google search would have revealed the truth about the hotel and surrounding area. Even before Elisa's death the Cecil was notorious. And anyone who googles downtown LA will get lots of info and pictures of skid row. I'm amazed at how many people didn't realize how bad the place was until they got there.

That's what struck me too, r229. In the pre=internet era I could understand, but I was surprised that they didn't research the neighborhood before booking the hotel. And they were all young people, too. Who does that these days? Even my older relatives research the hell out of an area on the internet before they commit to booking a hotel.

I love this sort of vibe. I’d pay a lot to stay there

Actually the broader story of the hotel and skid row is very worth watching. What I found most interesting/infuriating was the role of the web sleuths, how destructive and out of control they can be.

I actually know someone who knows the girl who did Elisa in the restorations, which were all shot in nyc. The girl they used was so much prettier than Elisa, they had to carefully avoid showing her face. The girl told my friend that they all got covid tested and one person tested positive and so the whole thing got delayed for a week. Not sure why that would be. She said she floated in that damn swimming tank they shot the tank scenes in for eight straight hours.

LMFAO at the comments about wasting time on the first three episodes and how stupid web sleuths are by a gang who are on thread 7 of the Pennsyltucky slow clearing murder suicide that was solved on post 1 of thread 1. Very rich.

They should film the sequel to Rosemary's Baby at that hotel

No way could I stay in a hotel with a shared bathroom and shower. Yuck!

That whole doc was nothing but spin. I don’t even believe she had bi-polar after watching that production ignore every single weird thing that happened and shut down every single question legitimately posed with “well she was crazy”.

R232 I hope they heated the water! Elisa was a cute girl but she was not a stunner.

I read that guests share rooms with other guests?! ( Not of their chosing.)

R238, that's a typical set-up for youth hostels, which at that time, I guess the Cecil was operating as a sort of half-hostel.

R239 I believe that was the main model of "Stay On Main" a hostel within a hotel. Elisa shared with strangers who complained about her behaviour which led to her being moved to a lone room.

[quote] I don’t even believe she had bi-polar after watching that production ignore every single weird thing that happened and shut down every single question legitimately posed with “well she was crazy”.

You *ignoring* her bipolar illness and obvious psychotic behavior is no better than the documentary supposedly *ignoring* “every single weird thing that happened.”

Do you have a theory of the case that’s supported by any falsifiable evidence?

R234, there already was a sequel. 1976, Look What’s Happened To Rosemary’s Baby.

[quote] To me buildings are no different than people. Some you should avoid. Just like some people, they a have dark, negative energy and presence. Avoid at all costs.

How can a rational adult believe something like this

Did anyone read the autopsy report? Her hair and skin was coming away from her body. I'm shocked that in the age of domestic terrorism, water tanks are not secured better to prevent contamination

R243- Please. Of course they do. Dark energy. Energy. Some places are very uncomfortable because if the energy it contains. I am not talking about the paranormal.

I felt bad for Morbid. But he was probably ok with the promotion of his “art”. Which it may be —who am I to judge?

In the end it was a very sad tale. I agree it was too drawn out and manipulative but an entertaining enough watch

what was playing on elisa's ipod?

The woman in the couple from the UK looked like Saffron Monsoon with her huge glasses and general frumpiness. I wish a drag queen dressed as Patsy had attacked her with a knitting needle in the hotel lobby.

What Morbid has been up to:

Well Netflix is doing something right. This was the highest rated show and what everyone was talking about this week.

I hope Netflix continues this format, but with cases that are genuine mysteries.

I like they call this “crime scene” when there’s literally no crime scene

r252 there are no crime scenes anywhere ever if proper investigations aren't conducted.

R248 you made me laugh, thank you.

The crime scene R252 was Elisa's room. She left it in an awful mess!

She was Cray Cray

those web sleuths are cray cray... like others have said, the last episode boils everything down. All the coincidences are very interesting though

A description of the new "re-branded" Cecil seemed to bring up this page. I dunno -- I'm skeptical..

That was the last rebranding. The rooms with the hand chairs were on the fourth to sixth floors and were called Stay on Main. That’s where she would’ve stayed with the roommates before getting booted to a regular Cecil room, which were on floors seven and up. The lower floors were SRO.

I hope I have that right. I just read it a few days ago but I may be off by a floor.

I was wrong after all. I had the floors right but she actually ended up in room 412, which was another Stay on Main room — not Cecil — that looked like the one below. Until the roommates complained, she was in room 506, which had bunk beds and a communal bathroom and shower down the hall.

R259, thanks. I guess that makes more sense that the current owners aren't yet advertising rooms available without a grand re-opening, and especially not during a pandemic.

From what I've read about the new ownership, what they plan to do doesn't sound much different than what the Stay on Main was. It's still going to be a mix of hotel rooms and low-income units? Based on the rooftop pool, bar, and gym equipment, it seems like they're angling for a younger crowd?

She was acting fearful and paranoid because she was skipping her meds. Her family verified that this is how she acted when not on meds.

There was no foul play here.

Those web sleuths are just as crazy as the Q Anon people. Are they one and the same?

What about the stranger’s foot that appeared in the video outside the elevator on the left side? The same side she was looking at when she tried to hide in the corner.

Why did she choose the farthest tank to jump inside? The other two tanks were closer.

Funny those who said Skid Row is the worst place in the world. Apparently never step a foot outside LA.

I don’t think that’s someone else’s foot. Her foot just lands the wrong way.

Also she looks at both sides when Looking out from the elevator

My guess is she chose the farthest tank because it had the ladder. There seems to be just one moveable ladder for all the tanks.

Oh, and because she was crazy

I read her autopsy report and it removed any doubt in my mind that she was murdered. It was a tragic result of unmedicated mental illness and being alone in a strange place. There were absolutely no signs of murder. Poor thing. Imagine dying alone and frightened in a dark, coffin-like tank? Horrific.

Netflix's true crime documentaries are all amazing. Have you noticed how they all smash on Netflix?

Why didn't the British couple who brushed their teeth in rotting Asian ass water sue the hotel?

I find it difficult to believe that she climbed into a remote water tank.

If she was on the roof by herself and wanted to kill herself, she would have just jumped off the building.

Amy the manager has kind of an Aspie vibe

Amy the manager had an "I used to turn tricks" vibe.

She may not have been trying to kill herself, she was likely trying to hide in a fit of paranoia..

As has been said, unmedicated bipolar people can go into a psychotic state where they believe people are after them and trying to kill them. They get terrified and try to hide somewhere. It's not uncommon.

Yes, I believe she felt someone was going to kill her so she went up the ladder and thought she would hide in the tank

I really like Amy the manager she seems cool

[AAAACCCKKK! FUCK YOUR ASS DL!. I just wrote up a good two paragraphs when thus fuckshit reloaded]

Suffice to say on this most shitty website: cliffs=Los Angeles has always had a dark energy. A lot of thanks to being the home of Hollywood! Just to add that the still unsolved Black Dahlia case was so (purposely) screwed up by a most corrupt LAPD that it will never be resolved. Also, Elizabeth Short was never associated with the Cecil hotel. She was last seen at the equally shady Biltmore Hotel in los angeles.

As an aside: Fuck your crappy, glitch-ridden, stenchy whore hole, DATALOUNGE!

The family clearly believed it was an accident too, and they knew her best

The sister said as much by describing Elisa's state when uneducated and how paranoid she could be

The parents used the hotel for not doing enough to secure the roof and tanks so their daughter couldn't access them. If they felt she was murdered how could they blame the hotel?

Are any of you familiar with the Manson Family? As in read about them? I ask because in one book, sorry I have read too many to remember the exact one, but the author talked a great deal about a place called The Spiral Staircase. Apparently, some pretty dark stuff went down there. Many famous , kinky people partied there. He hinted at devil worship, bizzare sexual rituals, drugs if course, ect. It has been impossible to find much about it on the net. He hinted at human sacrifice. I am just curious . The Manson family partied there often. Dennis Wilson , ect.

They surely must have been better places for Elisa to stay.

Elisa was young and wasn't rich. She was enticed by the new branding of the hotel and likely had no idea what was around the Cecil.

Plus, it wasn't the location or anyone in the hotel that actually killed her. The same thing could have happened had she stayed in the Ritz

This show was terrible. I’m shocked people say it was scary. It would have been creepier if the focus wasn’t Lam. Her story isn’t that interesting

What else would the focus be? Let's tour a hotel in the middle of a drug den?

Loving this thread for unearthing the jewelry website of the former manager.

Also, have a new fascination with the hotels that also ended up like the Cecil and the history of skid row (that would be worth a good docuseries unto itself). There was so much promise, to turmoil, and the architecture being really amazing especially juxtaposed with the less 'comfortable' accommodations available. I'm surprised that there isnt more content about skid row in bio/historical documentaries.

It was boring. I wanted to like it but it was terrible

I took the advice of early posters and watched the 1st episode, part of the 2nd and then went straight to the 4th. I'm somewhat familiar with this story, but never read about the death metal connection before.

And web sleuths are definitely their own version of cray-cray. Just reading Reddit will confirm that. Besides, Reddit is the bastion of post-adolescent ignorance and low IQ.

The series had a cool, dark vibe, but, it only needed 2 hours to tell the tale.

The Hotel Cecil had hostel-type room sharing (Eww!) and Elisa's roommates asked to be moved to a different room because her behavior was odd. She was writing things like "leave" and "go away" on Post-it notes and putting them on her roommate's bedframes.

I am clearly late watching this. I have a few random thoughts:

1) wouldn’t LA traffic helicopters have video thay could determine approximately when the water tank lid became open?

2) in the first episode there is mention made that she was in an area that guests won’t supposed to be and was told to leave, but they never circle back to specifics of where and when.

3) from a post on this thread describing how the English couple drank all their bottled water it seems like maybe the ac in the building wasn’t good. How was the ac in the private room she was moved to?

4) did Elisa Lam have a fear of heights? I do and looking at those ladders I know I would have a much harder time going down (insert obvious lesbian joke) than going up.

Now that the Cecil is closed what’s an older hotel in Los Angeles or Hollywood with a sordid past I could stay at? I want to do a creepy LA visit when life is all back to normal. I was thinking maybe the Aster Hotel possibly the place where the Black Dahlia was murdered.