Tasteful Friends: 895 Park Avenue apartment of the late Nan Kempner on the market as her husband Tommy decides to sell.

Immaculate. Unimpeachable.

That's the same building as the Leonard Bernstein apartment shown in another thread.

Way too busy for my taste. The red room is giving me vertigo. The apartment layout is great, that's all I can say.

R3 I agree Too old et busy for my taste but the layout is great

Looks like someone was spirited in from Connecticut to do the design. Where is the flagstone path?

No outdoor space and no closet space. PASS.

Nan in the library.

Love the old fashioned Upper East Side style.

The living room is still very nice. The red room is 1980s decorator Mongiardino style. All the rage back then. Looks so dated today.

Someone liked stripes.

R8, the amenities in the listing mentions an outdoor space. Would like to see it. Space will have to be totally redone.

Beautiful rugs

I love it. Maybe some tweaks for me personally but clearly well designed. Discipline and a good eye. With the exception of the DL HORROR of a TV over the fireplace - and the gnome like figurines over the other fireplace. Easy fixes.

The listing agent is Serena Boardman. I’m surprised she has to work for a living.

There's a lot of it that's still absolutely chic and relevant. Good on Michael Taylor.

There are some changes since Nan died and perhaps Tommy wasn’t living there year round time anymore.

Back in the day there were more brightly colored rugs, better plants, and more artwork.

R13 in the photo here you can better see some of the figurines that Nan collected. They appear to be really beautiful and she was famous for arranging them in different ways with floral and vegetable centerpieces on the dining room table for parties.

The multiple in-wall air conditioning units visible under the windows are crimes against humanity.

Hey! R5 !

R14

Same C.V. fits scores if not hundreds of scions of our very best homes, especially if they are females or gays. It is what they do if they don't have the balls (and or brains) for law, finance, or a few other select careers.

For one thing coming from money (or being married to it) means can survive in RE when times are lean. Also there is the value of having basically built in connections having grown up in same circle of people who would be clients. On another note that explains why you're seeing more and more Asians (especially Chinese) making a killing in certain RE markets.

Finally all this explains why RE on a certain level is pretty much a closed shop, or rather why there isn't "diversity" and "equality" enough for some people. Pretty much same thing with art/auction world as well; all bright young things from right schools, colleges and families.

R14

Same C.V. fits scores if not hundreds of scions of our very best homes, especially if they are females or gays. It is what they do if they don't have the balls (and or brains) for law, finance, or a few other select careers.

For one thing coming from money (or being married to it) means can survive in RE when times are lean. Also there is the value of having basically built in connections having grown up in same circle of people who would be clients. On another note that explains why you're seeing more and more Asians (especially Chinese) making a killing in certain RE markets.

Finally all this explains why RE on a certain level is pretty much a closed shop, or rather why there isn't "diversity" and "equality" enough for some people. Pretty much same thing with art/auction world as well; all bright young things from right schools, colleges and families.

I have several Michael Taylor furniture pieces in my home. His primary design style was California chic. In fact he's considered the father of California design.

IIRC it was Nan Kemper who wore one of the original YSL couture "tuxedo" suits to a very fancy NYC restaurant (Le Cirque?). They of course knew who she was but refused to seat Mrs. Kemper because she was wearing pants, something that was just not done for ladies in public at that time. So Nan Kemper removed the trousers and just wore the jacket, which thankfully was long enough to be modest when coupled with dark pantyhose.

Yes R22, you’d right except it was La Cote Basque. She tells the story in the article that R15 linked.

In the 1960s, she wore a new style -- a pantsuit -- to dinner at La Cote Basque restaurant, where the dress code forbade women in pants. Stopped at the door by Madame Henriette, Kempner yanked off the pants, handed them to her husband and told Madame, "I hope you like this better." She wore the tunic top as a dress, placed lots of napkins in her lap and "didn't dare bend over," she recalled.

Do people ever have these older properties renovated to include central air? I agree the in-wall air conditioning units look tacky. Why would you do that to a multimillion dollar property?

Pretty good blog article about Nan working with Michael Taylor on the apartment.

Gorgeous but no central air is a dealbreaker.

Liza in YSL pantsuit in 1968

I like the chinoiserie wallpaper. Rest of it is very traditional, not my style but designed in the mid 80s? It’s held up.

People who can go with through the wall AC units here in NYC because it is a better viable option than huge window units.

For one thing it returns use of said window (including view). Then there is not having to bother installing and removing window units that really only are necessary three or maybe four months of year.

Then there is the liability issue in case a window AC falls several stories to ground below and (God forbid) strikes someone.

Am going with at time many had these in wall air conditioning units installed they were the only other viable option besides window mounted. Central AC then was a much larger bother as the new modern ductless/split mini systems were either unknown in USA or not widely installed.

I really only want that big Surrealist painting over the red sofa. I wonder who painted it? It looks sort of like Leonora Carrington.

It’s a Magritte.

Nan was an Honorary DataLounge Goddess: "I loathe fat people. I really have a hang-up. I can't stand flesh. Don't misunderstand--I know how lucky I am. They should bottle my enzymes" (2000).

Fantastic place, especially the room in pic 5, that is flawless

Bigger than I'd need though, just floor 6 on the floorplan would be enough for me

Nan dancing with Sterling St. Jacques. Yes, she was obsessed with clothes and probably a bit flighty, but by all accounts she was no snob and loved having an eclectic group of friends that ranged across all ages and backgrounds.

Nan should talk about fat people when she smoked like a chimney to stay thin like so many of those Park/5th Av swans which killed them off.

R35

Those "swans" did all they could to remain rail thin for a huge good reason; so they could fit into couture samples worn by models after garment was no longer needed (fashion shoots, shows, etc...).

Not everyone is offered a chance to purchase such samples, the privilege goes out to ladies who are regular customers of a house and as such already spend tidy sums each season or whatever.

That was (and still is) one of the perks of models who work for couture houses. They are given, paid or whatever things from the house, which explains why Naomi Campbell and others have closets full of couture and ready to wear. Fashion editors of course also are in this as well, but only again if they can fit into whatever garment. Hence Anna Wintour and her decades of keeping a rail thin figure.... If not clothing accessories will do nicely as well.

Back when one could find real sample sales in NYC plenty of women (and some trannies) lucked out because their figures were close enough to the model garment was fitted upon.

None of this is entirely a secret, runway, catalog and other sectors of fashion modeling have a standard range in terms of height, weight and measurements. Things may vary from designer to designer, but often not very much within a certain sector of the industry. That is someone who designs for "plus" sized women isn't going to have same standard requirements as say Chanel couture.

Good number of Nan Kemper's wardrobe was donated to various museums and charities, worth a look if one has some spare time.

God bless her soul, they just don't make broads like Nan Kemper anymore. More is the pity because what passes for socialites today are poor reproductions.

Still though is it to be admired? To make yourself ill in order to fit into these clothes when you are not naturally thin enough for them. Or to have operations on your feet to shape them for the most elegant of footwear? It's much like foot binding.

Live on UES and see plenty of "skeltons with Jackie O hairdos" still roaming about, so not all of them were made "ill" or whatever.

That being said women like Nan Kempner, C.Z Guest and other socialites both American or European from that era were pretty much the last of their breed. Their daughters, grand-daughters or even great grand-daughters lead far different lives and don't lead same sort of lifestyle. They may buy ready to wear and perhaps the odd coutre piece, but that market today is largely dominated by women from Middle East, Asia, Russia/Eastern Europe and select South American countries.

When you see younger women buying couture (and there are a good many of them), it is usually those from countries named above.

Remember watching a program on haute couture where a wife of former president of France was interviewed. Madame stated she no longer bought couture because who has the time nowadays. Gowns, suits and other outfits with tons of buttons, snaps, hooks and eyes... all requiring assistance (as in a maid) to get in and out of and even then process of getting dressed took ages.

I'd never heard of her until this morning. Another smoky broad with a fabulous apartment. Why did the smokers have the best apartments? Do co-ops even let smokers in these days?

Jackie Kennedy

Joan Crawford

Lee Radziwill

Demi Moore

Lauren Bacall

Ruth Madoff

Leona Helmsley

Penny Marshall

Connie Chung

I love these threads. I scroll down really fast so I don't see the comments.

I LIKE that place. Its a basic apartment that has some character and warmth.

I tend to despise all of these Manhattan apartments.

I don't mind this one.

And now I go and read the comments to see if my taste is TRASH. I am generally 50/50-

They smoked to keep from occupying the buffet tables. Otherwise they would have Golden Coral two three times a week or been members of the Olive Garden all you can eat pasta society garden parties for charity.

Their husband weighed them every morning if there was a major event that evening and again at the end of the day to make sure they hadn't gotten into the perogies and lemon meringue pie with an extra helping at lunch because they knew they would starve at dinner.

Bear in mind that only seven months after Nan died Tommy Kempner married his longtime secretary Ann.

Ann charmingly did not mention his first marriage in the paid obituary she placed in the Times.

I'd sometimes see Nan walking down Fifth Avenue. If you think she was thin in photos, you can imagine how skeletal she was in person. Don't forget, we photograph heavier. She literally looked like a skeleton.

I am not one for flouncy fabrics, nana stuff and fussy gilded crap but the decorating is really gorgeous. The colors and the flow. I wouldn't want it for myself but I can appreciate it.

You can't see anything much of the apartment from the 10 photos Sothebys has supplied with the listing.

Nan admitted that she never knew what to write when she was filling in travel documents. "I'm not rich enough to be a real philanthropist," she explained. "And I loathe being called a socialite. So I write 'housewife'."

R46

That obituary failed to mention any of the three children Nan Kempner had with her husband as well.

OTOH talk about a power house old school marriage, one of the sons did very well for himself.

Crikey R48. She seemed pretty rich!

Sunday Night “Spaghetti” at Nan’s

R48

Her father owned a string of car dealerships in California IIRC, and of course Tommy Kempner was a banker from family of same. They had money, but compared to fortunes of today's tech billionaires like Jeff Bezos the Kempners were comparatively poor.

It was truly sad how Nan Kempner was left out of her husband's paid obituary, as if Ann Kempner wanted to erase previous holder of position from memory. Fact that none of the children were mentioned either is quite telling.

All and all can file things under something else from NYC of 1980's that is dead and gone.

I love it all.

The only room I don't like is the tiny one with the drapery and a single table. Is that a closet?

The second Mrs. Thomas Kempner

R52 Yes, I know. I just love that quote because it’s so Nan. She was unpretentious and didn’t take herself too seriously.

I met her at Bowery Bar right after it opened in the early1990’s as I was there with a friend of her daughter Lina. Nan looked amazingly chic in this very deep brown Valentino chiffon cocktail dress and was dining with David Bowie, Iman, and Bob Colacello. She was so charming and funny and had this ability to make you feel like you were her best friend even If you’d just met her.

I think that’s one reason she was so popular with people in social circles all over the world. I saw her a few more times around New York after that first meeting and, aside from being so elegant and chic, she just had this energy that made you feel good about yourself whenever you were around her.

I think this is how the library looked when she used Billy Baldwin in the 70s.

I looked this better than how it is now.

A corner duplex, imagine. Swellegant! Divine!

Are people clamoring to move into Manhattan right now though? Do we think the city will bounce back anytime soon?

Iris Michaels Sawyer, now that's going back a bit. Haven't heard the name in ages, poor soul, but that's what happens when you get too close to the sun.

R57

For some the city didn't really die. Wall Street had a great year, so much so that city nor state are not financially bad off as predicted. I live on UES and streets have been crowded for months. While public schools may have been closed many of private were open, as see students from Buckley and other schools coming and going.

Are things 100%? No of course not, but streets ahead of what they were say late last spring or during summer.

For those who like a good read full of dished dirt...

No pictures of the kitchen or bathrooms....mmmm

People of Nan's time and place didn't care about kitchens, or entertain in them. It was place for the servants and cooks to work.

WOW: thanks so much to the poster who linked to the Sawyer articles. Absolutely riveting!!! What a howling cunt Tom Kempner was. Unfuckingbelievable vindictiveness.

I often have at jab at Michael Taylor's work, but aimed more at his patrons than him. He's not a bad designer, it's just that his look is too pervasive in California, too safe, too much white, too many banquettes, too California Rich Zen. This NYC design fares better, though I think a significant aspect of that is that it has been updated in small ways from its moment of completion in the 1980s.

It's a great apartment, good architecture, an excellent plan, the interior design is good even when in some rooms I would make big changes. The changes from the original plan in adding en suite bathrooms in anything that might be used as a bedroom make sense for resale value but I would have done two fewer at least, to give more variety on the room sizes and character (bedrooms are less useful than other rooms for me, but the place is certainly large enough - I guess don't like a huge floor devoted only to bedrooms, and bedrooms on the other floor as well.)

I would keep some of the more striking main spaces intact as far as paint, wallpaper, and architectural details are concerned, just to preserve the aspect of design history and because I like them, refurnished to my taste.

There's nothing really wrong with the apartment other than that it is too big and too expensive for me, yet it's chief attribute is exactly those two things. It doesn't have the architectural resonance to live up to the price tag, even if I were remotely in the market for such an expensive property. For that much, you could have a splendid palace of a period house in some choice European cities, and furnish them, and they would be better architecturally in almost every way, and vastly so, and their history would be better than that of a banker and his wives and shades of late stage Truman Capote. It's a stage for someone else, to preserve or start a new with, but not fore even if I were stinking rich.

Nice apartment but I'm not a fan of wallpaper. The living room is nice but I loathe that rococo thing over the fireplace. That striped room is terrible. A powder room? I'd start over but keep the rugs and living room sofa. Needs more pics and if there is an outdoor space, they need to put those in the listing along with the kitchen.

My aunt was a lot like the 2nd Mrs. Kempner, Ann. My aunt faithfully served her boss for decades as assistant and very discreet mistress and when his wife FINALLY croaked my aunt got the lifestyle - Park Ave, CT, Vineyard, all the clubs, clothes, cars, and then she drank her self into blissful senility. But it was fun seeing her finally "get hers". I thought the guy was nice but a total chauvinist because he should have set up my aunt as a proper unemployed mistress, in a lovely if modest apartment, and not as his decades long adoring employee with benefits.

I looked up pics of Nan and, holy shit, that guy in the article linked above who mentioned the thinness of the socialites wasn't kidding. She was skeletal. Bones everywhere. Sorry, but much as we mock fatties, women of a certain age look better with some meat on their bones.

R53, the room with the draped walls and table is the powder room off the foyer.

Besides cigarettes and alcohol, I think these skeletal women must have been using rx drugs to stay that thin. They sure were not hitting the gym and running around the park.

A room just so you can powder yourself? Wow!

I'm confused. OP's title says "...as her husband Tommy decides to sell." OP is from yesterday, yet I'm seeing Tommy died in 2018. Did he decide to sell from the grave?

It was a typo, meant to say husband Tommy’s ESTATE decides to sell. LOL

So was she sweet and kind or did she ruin this poor woman's life for the fun of it?

Can't be both.

*pedestal

Sumptuous but comfortable. Perfect IMO. Is there a magnificent terrace?

But they cant get the smell of her thousands of ciggys out of the walls...

Was Nan more skeletal than DL icon Summer Farkas?

Tom Wolfe coined the term "social x-ray" in Bonfire of the Vanities to describe these skeletal doyennes of UES society. Some accounts say he was specifically thinking of Nan Kempner.

You tired old queens going on about how "for the same money I would buy......" fail to realize persons on this level aren't making a "this" or "that' decision. They often *DO* have properties elsewhere, but want (for whatever reasons) an apartment in New York City.

Why the fuck would a NYC banker buy a palace in Europe as his main residence?

People keep a place in town for all same reasons they have for a hundred years or more. Only question today is does one want UES, Tribeca, Soho, FiDi, Chelsea... or maybe Brooklyn. Other choice is between a private townhouse/mansion or multifamily.

You lot ragged on Alan Rickman's apartment in West Village and got it wrong there as well. Despite all the niggles inhabitants of DL had with the place it went into contract barely two months or so after being listed. This during covid-19 when according to those in DL everyone is "fleeing" NYC and no one would touch the place, well not at asking price.

The place is decorated in Peak Eldergay

It's a great well-proportioned apartment. You can argue whether, for the price, you'd rather be on 5th or CPW or even in a townhouse, but there's not much to dislike about the place.

The air conditioners are odd only in that I doubt anyone was ever there in the summer. But there are those hot days in September and even October...

$15 grand a month to throw the garbage out.

And our "Our Troll" is back.

You know, the one who refers to "our best families" like he's a character in some 1950s comedy of manners that has a high society subplot.

The Pruitts of Southampton?

I adore it.

R63

You're welcome! Don't think it was all Tom Kempner making Iris Sawyer's life hell on earth, Nan likely was behind a good portion of that evil.

Like men of his class before, then and now while their wives were busy at balls, going to fittings, etc.... TK was pulling whatever he could get on side. Fact that Tom Kempner married his secretary rather quicker than was right after Nan Kempner's demise surely means they were up to something long before that event. What Nan knew (if she knew) was likely a moot point, she was suffering a mortal illness and thus really in no position to push things. What was she going to do? Get a divorce?

Two quotes from one of the more famous bits of fiction (The Women) about the habits of denizens of Park avenue are apt in regards to Iris Sawyer...

"The only protection a woman has is her own little income" and " A woman has to come out on top or it's just too darn bad..."

Iris Sawyer had nil to no money of her own, and didn't come out on top, and look what happened to her; she went from high society to a welfare bedsit.

She really didn't age much between 1984 and 2004.

R86

Living on booze, ciggies and the occasional salad has remarkable anti aging qualities.

^^ the ghost of Audrey Hepburn.

I went to her exhibit at The DeYoung several times as I lived 2 blocks from it and had a membership. I'd go early and sometimes it would just be me in there imaging my fagola self in all her divine clothes!

The floor plan is great, but the decor is very old-timey and busy. I'm much more of a modern minimalist person.

They were burgled!

Just goes to show even Park avenue wasn't safe in 1970's New York City...

[quote]The multiple in-wall air conditioning units visible under the windows are crimes against humanity.

Only in NY do you pay $15 million and get window a/c units.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

R93 here....

Since DL redacted my post.... Wrote that Nan Kempner apparently didn't need to put much effort into remaining thin. She was svelte even as a young woman and simply managed to avoid the all to common fate of ballooning with age.

Lolz r94. Nan was bulemic. She also took a lot of diarrhea pills. She was famous for eating like a horse.... but it all came out quickly afterwards.

She was also lots of fun and very very funny. Like Joan Rivers funny. In another life she could have been a comedian.

R72

Unless otherwise arranged (via pre-nuptial agreement) this apartment would have been part of marital estate. Thus Ann Kempner as relicit of her deceased husband would be owner.

Another tidbit

[quote]Do co-ops even let smokers in these days?

Of course they do.

R92

You know nothing, there are various reasons why these buildings have window AC units.

First and foremost pre-war buildings are just that; they went up before central AC as we know it existed, or at least was widely a common feature for new residential construction.

Next if building itself is has landmark designation they you aren't going to be cutting holes in walls/facades to install through wall units. Same as with all those grand Haussmann buildings in Paris, France.

Now of course with arrival of various split mini and other ductless AC systems things could be managed, but we're talking about co-op buildings here; thus what one wants versus what board will allow can be two different things.

R95

Stand corrected, thanks for that bit of information.

r99 I do know all of those things. Still, it's only in NY you have to deal with that.

Just read the New York Magazine article about poor Iris, and the Kempners were evil.

If I hadn't known who this apartment belonged to, I would immediately know that it was someone from my grandmother's generation. Turns out I'm right.

R81

That "fifteen grand" per month covers shareholder's portion of real estate taxes (considerable in NYC), along with other costs associated with owning and maintaining property in city.

LIke shares taxes in NYC co-ops are normally apportioned by size of unit. Thus larger apartments come with higher monthly fees than smaller.

Saving grace is that portion of monthly co-op fees are tax deductible.

R101

No, not really. Again as was mentioned Paris, London and many other multi-family in cities around world have similar issues. Any place where you have desire for AC but also either because of building's age, local ordinances or whatever installing through wall AC is out. This and if condo or co-op board refuse permission.

r105 that's a reason why these old buildings are not as in-demand. There are other reasons, of course. New construction is where it's at for 21st Century people.

It is difficult to make broad generalizations regarding co-op versus condo market in NYC, especially at high end. If you're someone like Sting who buys then unloads apartments every few years, then these new construction condos are up your street. Also if you're someone who wants to put at little skin as possible in the deal, then again a condo would be a likely choice.

OTOH there still is and always will be a market for the financial and other stability that comes from living in well run white glove co-op building. If nothing else certain people still care about who their neighbors are, and don't want just anyone getting into the building.

See:

[quote]OTOH there still is and always will be a market for the financial and other stability that comes from living in well run white glove co-op building. If nothing else certain people still care about who their neighbors are, and don't want just anyone getting into the building.

And that's becoming less and less of an issue with people these days. They'd rather live in a modern building no matter what.

Actually no, r109. They want a totally renovated high floor pre-war co-op. Better run. More stable. Better locations. No dodgy neighbors.

What most people don’t get is a multimillion dollar renovation is done on most high end New York apartments like this every time they sell. Every time. As in when it’s an estate like this but also when someone buys it and reworks it to their own taste ... which the next buyer hates. No one just moves right in to any of these co-ops.

[quote]Actually no, [R109]. They want a totally renovated high floor pre-war co-op. Better run. More stable. Better locations. No dodgy neighbors.

What decade are you posting from? I never cease to be amazed at how out-of-touch with the modern world so many DLers are.

Next you'll be explaining how French Provincial is still all the rage with the moneyed set.

She was The best dressed woman in NYC.

There are posters on DL who obviously know their shit regarding various aspects of NYC including real estate, WASPs/ the wealthy or whatever.

Proof of this is each "tasteful friends" post on DL about this or that pre-war co-op that elicits moans and catcalls from others on DL, those in the know call it correctly.

Yet another case in point is 116 East 68th, which sold rather quickly and yes right during covid-19 when many of you were drinking the Kool-Aid that city was "over" and everyone was "fleeing".

Want more proof of how wrong some of you on DL get NYC real estate?

That co-op unit just few blocks south at 77th and Park which many of you predicted never would sell, in fact did!

Yes the old co-ops sell but the demand isn't there like it used to be. These places were THE places once upon a time but that's all changed. Modern buildings are hot commodities now for people who in previous decades would never think of living in places like that.

There have been countless articles in the NY Times and elsewhere about who the old co-op buildings aren't as coveted as they once were.

There is a world of difference between something not being coveted as it once was versus obsolete.

Nobody has said these buildings are obsolete. Just not as popular as they once were. There was a recent article about how Sutton Place isn't a big deal anymore and the co-op boards are "relaxing" their standards.

The Rackovers lived on Sutton Place!

James Rackover was renting (rather subleasing) in The Grand Sutton, a co-op building.

How much if any vetting the board conducted before allowing shareholder to sublet one does not know.

no mention of the reference to "mantle pieces" in the listing? OH DEAR INDEED

r121 most people don't really care about spelling errors. It's only odd schoolmarm cunts like you.

The apt has been staged and is really mostly the bare bones of what it was when Nan was in residence. Tommy married his secretary as much because he was the old fashioned kind of man who must have a wife run his homes- the Park Ave apt was the least of their homes! They owned a fabulous old world compound on Kempner Lane in Purchase NY. Tommy’s mother was a Loeb, John Loeb’s sister. They were very wealthy, the very core of old German Jewish money: our crowd. I knew them quite well, last spoke to Tommy in about 2014. My father was Tommy’s boss at Loeb Rhoads. When I worked at Andre Oliver in the late 79s early 80s Nan of course came in and brought me all her friends so I turned out to be a star salesman. She was a gas- she always was- whether driving back from Sugarbush playing car games and eating popcorn and salt water taffy or giggling with at a fancy French restaurant. At my sisters’ weddings she always came into the kitchen to snag extra food because she was so busy having too much fun earlier. And God was she chic. I adored Nan- not Tommy so much (he kind of scared me)- but he was a good man- one of my fathers close friends and partners. My father’s mentor was Hohn Loeb (not Jr,), Tommy’s uncle. And their kids, Speedy, Lina and Jamie are nice people. I’ll stop.

The great old building prices are as out of sight as ever however and the old WASP/Our Crowd discrimination is dying or dead. Coop boards are most concerned with financials and the perceived stability of prospective buyers. My parents sold their big coop in a grand building in 2003 for about 40X the price they bought it for decades earlier. I’m told it was on the market a little while ago for twice what they sold it for in 2003. The new super condos (needle towers) and downtown condos are just as expensive and more than the grand old buildings. Thing is- there are many more very rich people in Manhattan than there were in the 80s including international money.

The verge of extinction of expensive pre-war co-ops with desirable addresses and difficult boards of directors is something of a fabrication. Some posters would have you believe that these old mortuary parlors with their in-wall air conditioners are emptying out like rats from a sinking sink, all high-tailing it a few blocks away to cloud-piercing condo towers of glass with central air, in-unit laundry rooms, if you can pay for it it's yours/do what you want rules -- and a gym and a pool!

Different people like different things and living in a co-op appeals to some people exactly because of the difficulties. Some people want everything bright and shiny and new: rooms never used, toilets never pissed in, doorknobs never turned without a realtor present; they (oddly) want kitchens like the middle-classes only bigger; they want (oddly) large laundry rooms (because it's well known that people who pay 8 figures for an apartment love washing and folding their clothes); they want terraces, and swimming pools, and gyms, and an in-lobby barrista maybe; and they don't want having to appeal to a board to be admitted, or to make alterations.

For co-ops, though, there's the board thing that's meant to weed out noisy and inconsiderate neighbors, or neighbors whose financial ability to pay for an apartment is tied to mortgages and their continued employment; boards that will more than frown when you ask to insert an HVAC system on the roof of the penthouse and cut a "very small" vertical shaft to your unit tow or three stories below, or who want to do a "gut reno" and take everything down to the girders and then build it all back again, but differently, estimated delivery time 20-months of irritating neighbors and flooding the corridors and elevators with contractors, and unexpected things like a plumbers saw cutting the electricity to the building for a day. Co-ops have an appeal to some people precisely because they are old fashioned in architecture and in rules, because it's the habit to care deeply about what good neighbors the new members will be if to ensure that you can confidently ignore them once approved; they want a small group of doormen and front desk staff and elevator operators so that they only have to remember six or eight names, and not rotating shifts of strangers, different every day. They value calm and quiet more than the ability to move their walls around whenever they want to put the dining room where the library was and open it to the large eat-in kitchen they made where the living room was until they put it where the two bedrooms and the study once were, and all their other neighbors doing the same, unending for years. They don't want half the apartments in the building to hit the market every time there is some economic downturn. If they don't have a private plunge pool, or don't stand the best mini-split a/c systems, or if they have to send the laundry out they see that as part of the package and a welcome trade-off for things the co-op has that modern condos don't (even the ones that purport to have all the "old world charms married to all the latest modern amenities."

They are different things each best for its own market. No doubt the new condos have made some potential co-op buyers look at both options. It has become more competitive but there are still mostly big differences that fall along the line of one or the other form of ownership and building type. With 3% of the U.S. population and 9.6% of U.S. households millionaires, plus foreign buyers, there are more people than ever before who can potentially afford luxury apartments in NYC. The one form isn't so much replacing the other as expanding the choices to meet demand (or over-meet, but notice that the overage is in the new contruction condos, not in the old co-ops that emptied out to buy new.)

Does anyone remember the "quiet" building that is, or was, on either Sutton or Beekman? Apparently they had rules about noise, how many people could gather in an apartment, and other such niceties. I remember reading about the place years ago, but have never been able to figure out which building it is.

TIA.

I like how the main picture illustrates you can plonk yourself down on that huge comfy couch and brain yourself on the open shutter.

Too busy?

Do these people think you can have a place like this and shoot white paint over everything and leave it looking like an empty warehouse?

Idiots.

Is a "de luxe" UES co-op really the dream of anybody under the age of 50 now?

I'm 64, and find these properties stultifying and old-fashioned. If I had the money I'd be in a loft downtown or a Brownstone in Brooklyn.

r128 nobody said that. It's definitely fussy and from another time.

[quote]Is a "de luxe" UES co-op really the dream of anybody under the age of 50 now?

You have to remember how many DLers firmly live in the past.

So wait a minute...Iris Michaels Sawyer screws Nan's husband for eight years, makes a grab for the brass ring of marrying the twit, Nan finally puts her foot down and smashes her like a bug and I'm supposed to care?

You describe a woman's bedroom for a magazine article, admit you fucked her husband in it and get cunty about the wallpaper? You're the type of person to deserve whatever it is you get.

If she's just been discrete, she would have been fine. Nan obviously didn't mind the simple fact of the affair.

That one lovely harlequin Phalaenopsis gets around.

Charlie at R123, is this the Purchase property?

Nan’s grandson, Chris Kempner, is a handsome guy.

Were these Loeb's any relation to the Loeb of the Leopold and Loeb murder duo?

R136, no-

And yes that looks like the property- the main house. Guess the kids are selling their Dads homes. That odd obit seems be indicate a significant family rift, i.e., Tommy and Nan’s kids (my generation) did not go for the second marriage. I have long lost track of them, but I know they adored Nan and loved her whole schtick. And second wives in wealthy families can muck up trusts and inheritance, although my guess is the kids have long ago been provided for in trusts. Still...

As for Iris and that author from NY Mag putting down the family for treating Iris poorly- hello? Anyone who has affairs with powerful men from families like the Kempners are nuts- at best deluded.

R125 understands New York real estate well. A refreshing change from the usual clueless DL denizens who don’t quite get how it all really works

For someone who was so chic, the apartment is a disappointment of traditional, uninspired and boring decor choices.

There are a handful of nice things - but mainly old lady and stuffy.

It's a head scratcher - you would think her taste and style would be part of every aspect of her life. But no - looks like it was just purchased clothes and jewelry.

R114, I remember that thread and even went back to it to make sure, and I don't see anyone saying it wouldn't sell, let alone "many" people. There were objections that it was so close to the hospital and the ER entrance with the expected sirens, and comments about the bathrooms needing plenty of work, but I can't see anyone saying it wouldn't sell at all.

^^ looking for a white box

R139, as per my previous post, these pics do not resemble the apt when Nan was alive except in bare bones. I remember my parents apt staged for sale stripped of much that made it beautiful as well. Trust me, Nan’s style in dress, food and design was sublime. You would have loved to have a fly on the wall at one of her spaghetti dinners or more formal affairs.

They need to boost the price. I dined there and that should qualify for an extra million dollars.

R123 Charlie--If you're so comme il faut, why did you have to work as a vendeuse at Andre Oliver? I always felt Louis of Boston, across the street on East 57th, was a much better store for men's clothes.

A million years ago, tricked with a fur designer, who had shit stains in his boxers. He told me Nan pestered him for a sable coat either for free or for way below cost. I believe she got all her couture for free too. Wonder how good her French was?

Did you ever see such fruit upon a Family Tree?

Nan did not get haute couture for “free”, but she did stay thin enough to often times buy the runway show samples made each season.

This was particularly true at Yves Saint Laurent and Valentino where the samples were often sold to her at close to 50% off the regular price... which is a huge deal considering that the average cost of a day suit with blouse at the couture is about $40,000 and a cocktail or evening gown with embroidery can easily be $80,000 or even as high as $150,000 to $200,000 depending on how elaborate the design.

Of course, she also bought a ton of “ready to wear” each year back in the day from designers like Halston, Bill Blass, Carolina Herrera, and Oscar de la Renta at anywhere from $1000 to $10,000 a piece.

The Walking Dead, starring Nan Kempner

Now I'm hungry for beef jerky.

R146 ^^^ That photo is disturbing.

Marina Rust with Nan.

I love this:

[quote]She never tired of the discussion of bodily functions, especially her own, and adored asparagus because it “worked so fast!” She was thrilled when a famous designer referred to her razor-thin body as a “clothes hanger,” and admitted that past 70 she probably looked like a “cooked chicken in a bikini.”

I was a cater waiter forever so I saw Nan around town from time to time, even working an event in this apartment once. She was authentically charming and personable to all, including the help and seemed to say something quotable every time I saw her.

She was at a dreary charity event in a tent on a rainy day where certain tables didn't stay as dry as others. When I stood at her table she said, "Are you the person who knows where the gin is hidden?", and then a big smile. People used to value a wonderful personality.

Well, to all those saying Prewar Coops aren’t desirable, I’d damn well rather have Nan’s apartment than anything at 432 Park Avenue.

Lovely! Some of the window dressing and wallpaper is a bit too much, but other than that I love it. The Persian rug in the room with the orange sofas is beautiful.

Just realized i lived on that corner diagonally across. 28 years ago. Some beautiful buildings and apartments but not practical or pragmatic. No services or deli nearby. Very blandly homogenous - the prototype was the 80+ year old woman with face pulled so hard it was ready to snap who could barely walk. That whole world had no appeal to me. Those cocktail parties were like work events - insincere, everyone looking to get something out of it, no one was really fun. I could see Nan being a breath of fresh air in that stagnant upright pool.