Was Niles Gay?

Is a frog’s ass water-tight?

Not my Niles.

The first time I saw Frasier, I thought he and Niles were supposed to be lovers.

The character of Niles wasn't gay; he fell in love with and married Daphne. Both the characters of Niles and Frasier had a lot of feminine traits, including sensitivity and flamboyant intelligence, which annoyed their macho dad a great deal.

But then, R3, you realized it was 1993 or something and the world wasn't ready for THAT.

R5, I got very confused when I tuned in the next week and found out that they had the same father.

I may have thought the world was ready for a show about a gay couple....but not an incestuous one.

Kelsey Grammer is about the most gay-acting actor ever on TV: he was to some extent in Cheers (Lilith was clearly "the man" in the relationship), but it got out of control as his own show went on, as did other aspects of his self-indulgence. So he needed someone "gayer" to play his brother because Grammer insists he, and Frasier, are pussy-hounds.

David Hyde-Pierce's flame is subdued by comparison; he reads gay because he's a gay man in a role that's written as effeminate. I think once Joe Keenan became head writer it's obvious he read Niles as gay, with the kind of crush on Daphne that half of the DL has on Judy or Faye or Lupita, and the kind of sexless relationship with his wife a lot of closeted gay guys had in the olden days (and some still do). I'm sure that's why Keenan got out when it was decided Niles would marry Daphne (and break up her relationship with a truly eligible match). That idea was never going to work, and it didn't. (Neither did any of Frasier's relationships IMO, for the same reason.)

A Big Business reference R1?! I love that movie and I love the DL for bringing me to people who know it

Flamboyant intelligence?

Maybe someday you'll actually meet him and you can ask him yourself, OP.

“Kelsey Grammer is about the most gay-acting actor ever on TV:”

Center Square to block, R7.

Frasier might have had more gay regular cast members than any other show on TV.

David Hyde Pierce as Dr. Niles Crane, John Mahoney as Martin Crane, Dan Butler as Bulldog Briscoe all gay. Edward Hibbert as Gil Chesterton who knows?

R12, Dan Butler and Edward Hibbert were not regular, but rather recurring.

Which may mean Bewitched could still win, if anyone wants to do a tally.

Gay in real life though - went on three dates with him in the mid 90's. quite a big cock.

I thought all three of the Cranes were gay.

FRASIER is old school coding. Frasier and Niles are both straight brothers who have romantic relationships with women. They're also written with the dynamic of a gay couple. So watch it however you want.

It's canon Niles is straight.

I couldn't believe Niles was straight, and I was watching Frasier as a gay teenager with the worst gaydar ever. Like, I thought the show was trying to "punk" us 🤣 He's just so unbelievably fussy and odd.

How would I know?

The Matchmaker episode of Frasier was hilarious; my favorite ever.

Frasier invites a guy over for dinner from work; the guy is gay and Frasier's new boss, too; Frasier wants to fix him up with Daphne, the guy thinks Frasier is interested in him.

Jealous Niles come over; the guy says; "Niles do you have a problem me dating your brother?"

David's deadpan reaction was brilliant.

Later, Frasier: why would he think I'm gay? All we did was talk about London, theater, men's fashions...oh, dear god he thinks I'm gay."

I was fine with Niles being straight; the actor sold it; we have masculine gay men; why not have dandy straight ones?

"You doilies."

I saw an episode this afternoon I hadn't caught before, where Martin pretends he's gay to stave off the advances of a woman he's not attracted to. John Mahony had lots of fun.

R7 TL;DR Fat frau trying to make Lupita Nyong'o into a gay icon.

R20 is spot on. You’re all just showing off your societal programming. There are tons of straight-acting gay men, why not gay-acting straight men? You’re all more obsessed with gender roles than the T army.

R20, my favorite part of that episode was when, off-camera, Niles explains to Martin what the misunderstanding is and suddenly from the kitchen you hear bellows of laughter.

[quote] I saw an episode this afternoon I hadn't caught before, where Martin pretends he's gay to stave off the advances of a woman he's not attracted to. John Mahony had lots of fun.

One of my friends is a former Paramount Television senior executive and he told me they received a ton of hate mail following that episode from Mahoney’s older female friends. Apparently they hated the idea of him acting effete or being depicted as gay. If only they knew lol!

I wrote my thesis on the GLBTQ actor’s homoerotic subtext when convincingly playing heterosexual characters. Examples included Hyde Pierce as Niles, Paul Lynde as summer tent circuit Stanley Kowalski, Liberace as Judd in Oklahoma (now cruelly referred to as Oklahomo), Nancy Kulp as Sally Bowles, Rip Taylor’s one man show on the life of Patton & the pre Covid revival of Victor/Victoria starring Caitlyn Jenner.

Such brave performances.

Nothing about Harris in How I Met Your Mother?

I loved the ep where Martin made Niles pretend to be his boy toy.

Another Gay 'themed' episode was in season 10 - The Doctor Is Out - w/Patrick Stewart as a gay producer (or something like that) that Frazer glomed onto which caused Niles to become jealous. Anyway it was one of the best episodes ever regardless of the theme. As someone up thread noted R20 I think I just enjoyed the series which is one of the best and many episodes still hold up after all these years.

Sorry - glommed vice glomed R30

I like the idea of "glome" being a word.

Meh. It may be a little too glome.

[quote] Frasier might have had more gay regular cast members than any other show on TV. David Hyde Pierce as Dr. Niles Crane, John Mahoney as Martin Crane, Dan Butler as Bulldog Briscoe all gay. Edward Hibbert as Gil Chesterton who knows?

Prime time TV, maybe. But gay men dominated the afternoon soaps for decades.

Dark Shadows had Jonathan Frid, Louis Edmonds, Joel Crothers, Christopher Bernau, Keith Prentice, and Humbert Allen Astredo (bi). Those are just the major, regular cast members!

Frasier and Niles were not meant to be gay or coded gay. If they were, they wouldn't be as funny, because they wouldn't have so much built-in potential for farcial conflict and humor! No, they're meant to be a couple of straight men who are complete misfits, and who don't fit in anywhere, except with each other. If they were gay then society would not only have a label ready for them, they could be part of a subculture of other femme gay men and host fabulous dinner parties for all the theater queens in Seattle!

Okay, maybe there was a *bit* of coding, they snuck a lot of gay culture into a mainstream straight show. But Frasier and Niles couldn't be gay, it'd make them part of that subculture rather than unique men.

I always believed (though I knew DH-P to be gay) that Niles lusted after Daphne, and even that his wife would be some bizarre rich woman like Maris. I never for a second believed that Niles and Daphne together had any chemistry. It threw his homosexuality into high relief. Something about the earthiness of Jane Leaves just made Daphne's love for Niles just a.bit ridiculous.

Was Niles Crane gay?

Is the Pope Catholic?

Does a bear shit in the woods?

Is Donald T**** the worst potus ever?

Was Niles NOT gay?????

I thought the show went downhill after Daphne began to return Niles' feelings.

Okay, the unrequited crush was believable, because Niles was a neurotic mess of conflicts, and it was believable that he'd be drawn to someone who was sane, sensible, and able to cut through bullshit. It just wasn't believable that someone sane, sensible, and no-bullshit would ever have real feelings for a neurotic mess, because she'd never be able to fix his issues or behavior.

Okay, maybe it might work for a while, sometimes just the euphoria of being loved is enough to carry a hopeless relationship along for a while... but there's no way the marriage would last even five years. Once the euphoria wore off, her bullshit intolerance would turn into verbal abuse, or at least he'd convince himself that it had.

Dear heavens already, is puce?!

R2 Especially your Niles!

R14 who has the big one?

I loved when Keenan was a big part of the writing staff. Loved his books and loved his sensibilities, and you could see it all over those seasons of Frasier.

The ski lodge farce was brillian and very, very Keenan.

It’s not something YOU have to worry about, r9 .

Rewatched "The Matchmaker" episode last night because of this thread. I'd forgotten more of it than I'd realized, it was almost like watching it for the first time.

"I can't stay, the fleet's in!"

[quote] Jane Leaves

Oh, dear!

Dammit! Good catch.

In your defense, though, I’m sure it was autocorrect.

Just having fun on this great great day.

There was also one of the ski lodge episodes. It was a bedroom farce. Everyone wanted to fuck Niles, no one wanted to fuck Frasier.

Even Guy the ski instructor.

Um, that’s pronounced Guy, r49.

It was autocorrect because I blearily check DL first thing in the morning.

Frasier has a recurring dream about Gil

[bold]Frasier:[/bold] Don't take this wrong, but it never even occurred to me you might be gay.

[bold]Tom:[/bold] Well, it never even occurred to me that you might be straight.

[bold]Frasier:[/bold] Thank you. Geez, Tom, I feel just awful. Seems I've just been leading you on all night.

[bold]Tom:[/bold] Oh, it's OK. It's an honest mistake.

[bold]Frasier:[/bold] Yes, but I've been pouring you drinks, building up your hopes, making you think you might have found a man sophisticated and sensitive enough to help you...

[bold]Tom:[/bold] Frasier, I'll learn to love again.

[bold]Frasier:[/bold] Yes, of course.

[bold]Tom:[/bold] You'll apologize to Daphne?

[bold]Frasier:[/bold] For the rest of my days.

[bold]Tom:[/bold] Does this mean your dad's not gay either?

[bold]Frasier:[/bold] No, no, dad's not gay.

[bold]Tom:[/bold] But Niles - come on!

[bold]Frasier:[/bold] No, I'm afraid not.

[bold]Tom:[/bold] Huh... so wait a minute, this Maris guy he kept mentioning is a woman?

[bold]Frasier:[/bold] Well, the jury's still out on that one.

r14 Sizemeat verificatia