E.M. Forster's Maurice

I suppose you've heard that the title character is "that way"?

Maurice the movie is better than Maurice the book.

In the book, Clive just suddenly becomes straight halfway through. Not very believable.

In the film, they changed that. Clive gets spooked out by a friend getting arrested for propositioning a working-class man and worries that it will destroy his political ambitions. So he marries. But the end makes it clear that he is still in love with Maurice. Which was heartbreaking.

I get that we're meant to root for adorable Alec Scudder in the book and the film (and I do, he is pure and deserves everything), but Maurice/Clive are my OTP and I refuse to stop wishing that they ended up together.

I agree with R2 that Merchant/Ivory made the best call by keeping Clive's sexuality concrete and having him show regret. The ending packs a far more powerful emotional punch that way, and keeps our sympathies more divided and ambiguous.

Old-man James Wilby & Hugh Grant sharing a drink and reminiscing MAURICE. A very sweet interview. They seem friendly, still.

It’s a fairly easy read with short chapters. There are some gorgeous sentences that really capture the beauty of men and made me think, “Yes! This is why I’m gay.”

I recommend it.

I agree with r5

If you haven't seen the movie, you need to. Loved it. Heartbreaking in many ways.

I went to see if with friends in Boston and made a fool of myself.

I had just gone to the wedding (to a woman) of the guy I should have been with (we were/are deeply in love with each other). When Clive looks out the window at the end and sees Maurice at uni waving back at him, it was too much for me and I burst into tears.

Never happened before or since.

I just watched it again on Amazon Prime and it holds up really well.

I had forgotten how long it was before they expressed affection for each other.

But knowing they would, made it all the more interesting.

They were such beautiful men then. And the cinematography was wonderful.

The other thing that struck me, which I hadn't noticed as much before, is how great the actress playing Clive's wife is in the final scene. He hugs her and she is happy, but she realizes that something is very wrong. Her facial expressions are wonderful.

If there was no movie we would never hear about it.

Phoebe Nicholls who would also play Cordelia Flyte in Brideshead Revisited was fantastic as Clive's wife Anne Durham in Maurice.

Her husband won't come near her, but as a properly raised Victorian lady she isn't supposed to be interested in sex so won't jump is bones or otherwise push things. In same theme Anne Durham hasn't a clue about homosexuality and thus hasn't worked out exact nature of what went or is going on between Clive and Maurice. Thus we see at the ending with Clive staring out of that window nearly in tears as Maurice and Shudder make their getaway, and Anne looking over his shoulder clueless. She's trapped in a marriage with a man who may ever love her in that way. The other side of marriage may remain completely alien to her, or so infrequent might well as not matter. Anne Durham may get lucky in that Clive wanted children, thus there might be the odd meeting now and then. But a happy and fulfilling sex life as man and wife just isn't on table.

There are a series of deleted scenes from Maurice, but best IMHO is when Maurice tells Clive he's running away with Shudder.

Clive is almost indignant, as if he resents being thrown over for a mere peasant. But Maurice puts Clive in his place by telling what needed to be said; Clive wasn't willing to love or commit to Maurice in that way, and he's found happiness elsewhere.

One of if not the best gay erotic scenes ever filmed bar none.

You don't see anything, but the raw emotions simply filled the theater or anyplace else people were watching.

This movie is what Brokeback Mountain wished it could be.

Lovely novel. The film is also quite good, though I wish it had more running time, to make things a little slower.

To those who would like to read a book in a similar vein, I strongly recommend The Charioteer by Mary Renault.

R9: The current release is much longer than the original and includes more of the Clive/Maurice backstory.

Phoebe Nichols seems somehow perfect playing such a clueless, sexless role.

[quote] Charioteer by Mary Renault.

One of the gay classics and with a happy ending.

Maurice isn't really comparable to Howards End or even A Room with a View in terms of literary merit and the film adaption suffers for this. I wish Julian Sands had played Clive as intended, James Wilby was dull.

[quote]Lovely novel. The film is also quite good,

The film is actually better than the book.

In the book, Clive goes to Greece, flips a switch, and is suddenly is straight.

That is a really annoying (and false) plot twist to more modern audiences.

Dedicated to a Happier Year.

"I wish Julian Sands had played Clive as intended, James Wilby was dull."

Sands is all wrong for the role....Maurice is supposed to be ordinary

R20 Maurice is described as handsome in the book. Though I have no complaints against Wilby's performance.

Hugh Grant has certainly aged well. Woof.

Why was Clive's lip bitten when he is watching the trial of the Viscount?

Maurice didn't bit his lip until later.

Was that a continuity error or did they reverse the order of the scenes in editing?

[quote]I wish Julian Sands had played Clive as intended, James Wilby was dull.

I thought Sands was very handsome, but a very dull actor in A Room with a View.

Wilby was far superior. The dynamic would have been off between Grant and Sands, as it would have been hard to think that Grant had the upper hand.

Sands is better when he can play eccentric- Arachnophobia, Rose Red, The Girl with the Drago Tattoo, Crooked House, etc.

Wilby is better as attractive but dull- Maurice, Gosford Park, etc.

Clive was frightened to death about what happened to his former school chum Lord Risley. The ensuing scandal and downfall was everything Clive feared about being found out as a homosexual. Don't think Maurice was that bothered at first because he was still working things out.

Young James Wilby wasn't just handsome, but extremely beautiful in way many Englishmen are at that age. His looks blew Julian Sands out of the water in that area. The latter was attractive enough, but no where near as beautiful...

i haven't seen the film since its initial release and I've forgotten: is it pronounced MoREESE or Morris?

The latter, R28. Morris.

British and those from Commonwealth nation tend to pronounce Maurice as "Morris". Americans an some others as "m aw - r ee s"

Maurice's tutor and others pronounce his name as former. In American sitcom Samantha's father's name was Maurice, and pronunciation varied. All the American actors (Dick York, Dick Sargent, Elizabeth Montgomery, Agnes Moorehead...) pronounced it "m aw - r ee s". But when a hammy Australian warlock was brought in for one episode he called Maurice "MoRRIS".

The French and others do pronounce Maurice similar to Americans (again m aw-r ee s). No one ever called Maurice Chevalier "Morris" besides perhaps British.

Thanks, r29 and r30.

Wilby was great in Howard’s End and it gave him the opportunity to play a douchebag.

James Wilby was also a great douche bag in Gosford Park as the Honorable Freddie Nesbitt.

The movie is a classic. When I saw it with my "girlfriend" in college. During the boat house reunion scene I broke down. Pretended I was choking on popcorn. Got up and ran to the bathroom where I cried. 30 years later I still cry at that scene. Openly now.

R2

In film Lord Risley is arrested and sentenced to six months hard labor for soliciting sex from a solider.

It is strongly implied Lord Risley is set up (entrapped) by the solider which has a bit of truth to it in real life.

During Victorian and Edwardian era British soldiers weren't very well paid, and it was rumored (if not fact) a good many offered themselves to be serviced or whatever by gay men in exchange for money. So much so that some gay men (lacking all common sense apparently) made moves where they shouldn't assuming all soldiers were on the game if you will.

"The character of Lord Risley was smaller in the novel and he was not arrested for buggery as he is in the film. By showing his arrest and enforcing the harsh sentence, the film is able to both dramatize the dangers of being homosexual in Edwardian England and provide a clearer motivation for Clive's sudden rejection of Maurice. It is also worth noting that, as in the trials of Oscar Wilde before him, the judge makes it clear that, because Risley is "a man of breeding," his corruption of the lower classes is an equally abominable offense."

This is one reason for Clive's visceral reaction to his own gayness. Remember it was he that came onto Maurice first, though made it clear things shouldn't go to far...

Maurice bedroom scene with deleted bits.

Watched it at the movies several times when it was first released. The fear of punishment by the law and society resonated all too well for me. It’s a beautiful film, made more so by the gorgeous score from Richard Robbins.

I felt Rupert Graves was miscast though: he was (and still is) too posh to play a commoner. He was delightful as Freddy Honeychurch in A Room with a View though!

Wasn’t Kevin Spacey allegedly obsessed with Rupert Graves?

Adore both the book and the movie. Never understood the huge fandom Clive has among certain people - he's more sympathetic in the film I guess, but he comes off as a miserable coward in both. Young Hugh Grant doesn't do it for me either.

“I knew you read the Symposium in the vac," he said in a low voice. Maurice felt uneasy.

"Then you understand - without me saying more - "

"How do you mean?"

Durham could not wait. People were all around them, but with eyes that had gone intensely blue he whispered, "I love you.”

My father recently recommended the film to me & I told him, Dad, I saw that when I was in high school when it first came out (get with it, gramps)!

Sands was (maybe stillis) a close friend ofJohn Malkovitch and seems to cultivate the same affinity for eccentricity. The inspiration for the story was the relationship of the very eccentric Edward Carpenter and his illiterate long-time partner. Sands would have been fine if the character was to truly be like Carpenter, but Wilby makes sense for a more "normalized" middle class Maurice,which seems to have been Forster's intent.

Graves does not come from a posh background--more lower middle class from a seaside town that hasdseen better days. He has described his background numerous times. He comes across in the part as both formal (as part of the class system) and somewhat coarse, as needed. He may come across as trying too hard with his accent----it was very early in his career and he had gone around pubs in the region to pick upthe speech pattern of men who had grown-up in the time during which the film was set.

James Wilby's acting in the bedroom scene (clip at R12) was excellent.

Maurice goes from fear to revulsion to shock, to acceptance and then ecstasy with a healthy helping of lust.

Until that moment Maurice only had feelings for other men which he wasn't yet entirely comfortable with, and Clive being a tease wouldn't do anything else.

Thanks to that butler, Scudder was already clued into Maurice's tea. The rest he picked up by putting two and two together. The rough and common servant knew what Maurice needed, a right good rogering, and he was the young man to get the job done.

When Scudder begins seducing Maurice and saying "it's alright" (or words to that effect) you could feel the tension in movie theater.

Next morning Maurice is like a cat who has gotten into the cream. The bull is out of the barn and it isn't going back. Maurice hasn't only just tasted sex, but now knows love, a deep passion with another man. It's what he wanted in theory for some time, but now that the deed has been done in practice...

The relationship between Scudder and Maurice was dangerous from start and the latter knew it. Just as with Lord Risely (which likely why that character was extended in film), if they were caught and or Scudder went to authorities and said it was Maurice that seduced him, that would have been end for our hero.

E.M. Forster was keen that "Maurice" have a happy ending. But that was one reason why he didn't bother having book published in his lifetime. He feared it being seen as promoting homosexuality or otherwise going against known laws.

Alternative ending for Maurice (Forster ditched it after not getting good feedback from trusted persons who read) went as follows:

"The epilogue contains a meeting between Maurice and his sister Kitty some years later. Alec and Maurice have by now become woodcutters. It dawns upon Kitty why her brother disappeared. This portion of the novel underlines the extreme dislike that Kitty feels for her brother. The epilogue ends with Maurice and Alec in each other's arms at the end of the day discussing seeing Kitty and resolving that they must move on to avoid detection or a further meeting."

E M Forster refused for that a messy fragment that we know as ‘Maurice’ to be published.

It isn't a novel. It’s unfinished. It has none of the polished, charming characters or intellectual profundity displayed in his finished works.

James Ivory's regular screenwriter refused to make a script from it because she said it was like old lace and lacked an intellectual backbone. She said homosexuals might love it and fill in all the blanks and lapses in credulity but a heterosexual auduence would not.

OP, everything E.M. Forster wrote is worth reading.

Some pieces are inevitably better than others, but he is a gifted writer and and the worst of it is still worth reading.

[quote]Why was Clive's lip bitten when he is watching the trial of the Viscount?

I watched an interview with James Ivory. He said that while Ruth Prawer Jhabvala declined to write the screenplay (there are conflicting stories about the reason), she did help with the film. One comment she made was that the scene where Clive sees Risley convicted had to go BEFORE Clive's breakdown/rejection at Maurice's house, where Maurice bites Clive's lip, rather than before.

As originally filmed, Clive had already been bitten by Maurice when he goes to Risely's trial, but those scenes were reversed in editing.

If Ben Kingsley's name didn't pop up in the "Actors With Really Bad Foreign Accents" thread, it should have. Like in one of the first several replies.

R43 When Scudder begins seducing Maurice and saying "it's alright" (or words to that effect) you could feel the tension in movie theater.

Ang Lee borrowed that for Brokeback Mountain. Jack says those exact words to Ennis in second tent love scene.

Both bellissimo scenes.

[quote] "it's alright"

Shakespeare also used those those exact words,

R49 So did Whitney Houston.

He must have gotten it from her.

I always loved the scenes at the university, too - how I wish I could have gone there and studied the Classics! I can't find it now - what is the professor's line about, "We'll skip the degeneracy of the Ancient Greeks" or something.

The professor played by the ludicrously over-pompous, super-fruity Simon Callow.

R51

Ancient Greece is slagged on for that society's rather liberal views on male homosexuality and a few other things.

There's a funny scene in Britcom "Father Ted" where some woman is ranting on about she hates the Greeks because "they gave us gayness".....

Of course obvious other thing is anal sex for ages was (and still may be) referred to as "Greek".

For the uptight and priggish English from the Victorian and Edwardian periods this was all just too much. It prompted the harsh laws and public views against homosexuals that really didn't begin to let up until well after WWII.

It also explains why English gay men for years decamped for the continent to countries such as Germany, France or even south of Italy. Gore Vidal chose the latter to set up camp in part for same reasons other Anglo gay men, easy access to young men or boys who weren't that bothered about a bit of gay sex. Gordon Merrick novels were famously often set in Greece for similar reasons.

R39

You have to cut Clive some slack. He's a realist and pragmatist no matter how much all of that is eating him up inside.

Clive was raised a certain way with expectations he would turn into a well respected Englishman of the period. OTOH you can give him points for recognizing his attraction towards men (or at least Maurice), but he also knows it all is just too impossible. Again that is likely why character of Lord Risley was expanded in film of Maurice. Something or someone had to bring it home in real terms just what Clive, Maurice and other gay men of the period were up against.

In a deleted scene Lord Risley goes to his club after being released from prison. At first clerk at front desk refuses to admit Risley, but a member or someone in charge gives the OK, and LR is given a room. As he makes his way through lobby other men put their heads together and whisper while glancing or pointing his way. LR glances over at a few realizing all to well what they are saying. He's done socially and professionally, no one will ever be able to know Lord Risley ever again. His name is one of execration to be spoken only in hushed tones in clubs and drawing rooms all over London.

Lord Risley gets to his room and promptly commits suicide by jumping out of window.

Clive was never strong enough to go through the mental torment of living in a long term gay relationship. Oh and don't forget that butler who caught Maurice and Clive having a (near) cuddle. He knew what was going on at least with Maurice which is why he warned Scudder off being alone anywhere near the man.

[quote]"We'll skip the degeneracy of the Ancient Greeks"

No, the actual line was funnier:

"Omit the reference to the unspeakable vice of the Greeks."

“Towards the end of the term they touched upon a yet more delicate subject. They attended the Dean’s translation class, and when one of the men was forging quietly ahead Mr. Cornwallis observed in a flat toneless voice: ‘Omit: a reference to the unspeakable vice of the Greeks.’ Durham observed afterwards that he ought to lose his fellowship for such hypocrisy.

Maurice laughed.

‘I regard it as a point of pure scholarship. The Greeks, or most of them, were that way inclined, and to omit it is to omit the mainstay of Athenian society.’

‘Is that so?’

‘You’ve read the Symposium?’

Maurice had not, and did not add that he had explored Martial.

‘It’s all in there – not meat for babes, of course, but you ought to read it. Read it this vac.’

No more was said at the time, but he was free of another subject, and one that he had never mentioned to any living soul. He hadn’t known it could be mentioned, and when Durham did so in the middle of the sunlit court a breath of liberty touched him.”

From E.M. Forster’s Maurice, Chp. 7:

For those that don't already know E.M. Forster was influenced to write Maurice based upon real life out gay activist of time Edward Carpenter.

Edward Carpenter and his younger life partner George Merrill lived together as an openly gay couple until the latter's death in 1928. Carpenter died one year later and the couple lie buried side by side in same churchyard.

The lives of Carpenter and Merrill seemingly contradict the "gay panic" Victorian and Edwardian homosexuals and others had. But then again not really so...

First of all Carpenter wasn't a nobleman, wealthy or whatever from a high social class. More to point laws regarding homosexuality only came into play if caught or someone filed a complaint. Two men living together openly in love may not have suited a particular community or whoever, but there wasn't anything illegal about it. Alleged or suspicion of vice is quite another thing from being caught at buggery or attempting to do so.

I'm thinking of the scene in "The Man In An Orange Shirt" about two men who fall in love during WWII.

When they get back home to England they celebrate their love and live together in a house in the country.

Then, one of them announces that he is getting married. He says, "You didn't think we could actually live here, for all the world to see, as man and wife?"

Frame for frame, MAURICE has more phallic symbols than any other film. Scene after scene. If its not one candle, it's a dozen flaming candles. Or a hundred smoking chimneys at the university. Or columns. Or that boat on the lake, piercing the frame while the young men have their hands wrapped around long poles.

I love the film, but the number of phallic symbols is astronomic.

The guy who played Scudder, Rupert Graves, claimed at the time Maurice was made to have been entirely straight. Finally, a few years ago, he admitted he had had gay relationships and sex with men when he was in school and in the first years of his career.

R60, we never bought Rupert as straight. He was much too pretty.

"The Man In An Orange Shirt" was brilliant!

It amazes me how even still today American actors (male) are still queasy about doing gay roles that actual kissing, touching, etc... Meanwhile in UK they've been doing so for decades an apparently no actor who did suffered any set back in professional career.

Daniel Day-Lewis

Murray Head

Rupert Graves

The list goes on...

R59 Sometimes, a gothic turret is just a gothic turret.

The WWII guy in "The Man with an Orange Shirt" who gets married is my idea of perfectly handsome.

R58

""You didn't think we could actually live here, for all the world to see, as man and wife?"

That thinking was same with Brideshead Revisted when broadcast on television. People kept going on about how Sebastian and Charles were in love, blah, blah, blah...

There was *NO* way Charles Ryder and Lord Sebastian Flyte were going to live happily and openly as a gay couple at Brideshead or any other of the Marchmain family properties. The thought of Charles and Ryder getting together as partners was just foolish. It was never going to happen for a host of reasons, first among them Brideshead was the heir and would have gotten the family seat. Even when Lord Marchmain basically disinherited his heir the girls got the main house, not Bridey.

R64

Yes, Oliver Jackson-Cohen is, isn't he!

Woof!

On another note see that push for "equality" in British media is going along nicely by including an interracial gay story line.

R54 I might be being too harsh on him, yes, though Maurice was able to realize his own happiness by defying the standards that society had put upon men like him and Clive by not only being in a gay relationship, but with a lower class man! There's an interesting contingent of people (like some posters up thread) who'd rather Clive and Maurice ended up together somehow when the entire point of the story is that Maurice chooses to be with Alec because Alec is willing to go all-in with the relationship, not throw him scraps like Clive did. Very ahead of its time when it was written, pre WWI I believe.

I love this thread, it's making me so nostalgic for when I first saw the movie in high school and was obsessed with Rupert Graves, sigh.

Brideshead Revisited suffers from the same outdated nonsense that the novel (not the movie) Maurice did.

Clive and Charles both suddenly flip a switch and become straight halfway through.

That may have washed when they were written, but it doesn't ring true to modern people.

R68 I don't think you're meant to view either of these men "turning straight" at face value, especially not Clive, when the last sentence of the novel is about him "finding a method of concealing the truth from Anne."

Charles is debatable, as he was a stand-in for Waugh himself, who had gay relationships in his youth but became an incredibly miserable Catholic traditionalist later in life.

"The guy who played Scudder, Rupert Graves, claimed at the time Maurice was made to have been entirely straight. Finally, a few years ago, he admitted he had had gay relationships and sex with men when he was in school and in the first years of his career."

Why didn't he put out for ME, then?!!!!

Graves was one of a few guys that helped me to understand I was gay as a college guy.

Others were: Broderick in Torch Song Trilogy, The Outsiders, and many more.

R68

As Lord Marchmain's mistress Clara Hicks notes the love young British (and German) men have for each other is a normal part of their upbringing. She also correctly notes not the French of course because of their Latin cultural roots..

Clara also goes on that there's nothing wrong with that sort of love, if it doesn't go on too long...

That is what happened to Charles Ryder, and perhaps Rupert Graves in real life.... For ages thanks to their same sex schooling and so forth homosexuality was rather common in boys public school set. I mean what is else there when you in company of exclusively men and boys otherwise?

When those young boys become young men they were supposed to leave all that behind. Which is what Charles Ryder did apparently. He never was really whole heartily gay, in fact refers to Antony Blanche as "pansy" and other derogatory names.

Anthony Blanche the true out gay in Brideshead Revisted knows at once Charles Ryder isn't one of that clan. He also knows of the dangers of Charles becoming too involved with Sebastian Flyte without being able to handle the fallout from that hot mess.

It was the two outsiders of society, the mistress/whore (Clara), and effeminate out gay (Anthony Blanche) who saw things so clearly. Charles Ryder wouldn't listen and paid a heavy price.

Keeping up appearances isn't just name of a television program, but how British society, especially the middle classes, have lived their lives for decades.

Oscar Wilde's great sin was he got caught, which of course caused a scandal. He wasn't the only gay man in Victorian London from the middle or upper classes, but he got caught which broke the facade.

From Victorian period onward to post WWII period and even today in Britain no matter what goes on in background, appearances must be kept up. Men of the house pulled maids, women of the house pulled whatever they could get. Married couples lead almost entirely separate lives indoors, but for world and God to see when it mattered they put a brave face on things....

To flaunt convention meant either finding society that didn't mind much, or be prepared to accept the consequences.

Countless characters in fiction like "Quaint Irene" or "Georgie" from Mapp and Lucia mirrored what could be found in real life. People found them charming, amusing and counted them as part of their social circle, long as things remained respectable appearance wise.

Again this all boils down to why Clive just never, ever, ever was going to come out or even act upon his homosexual feelings. To be caught would have broken that facade with horrible consequences. Clive becomes violently and physically ill at Lord Risely's downfall for a good reason. It hit too close to home....

An interesting thing about the story is how Clive is the cheeky pseudo-intellectual atheist who ends up living a conventional closeted life while Maurice, who most of the time was a snobby conservative, sacrifices everything to have a loving relationship.

Not in a movie, R63. Everything captured in the frame is there on purpose. Almost never an accident in what shows up on screen in a film.

[quote]Especially not Clive, when the last sentence of the novel is about him "finding a method of concealing the truth from Anne."

Could that not be construed as him being concerned that she never learns of his past, not his present?

The novel is far from Forster’s best, , but it is still a lovely pastoral romance and the film touching and hopeful.

I really enjoyed the novel, but I found its understanding of Clive's psychology wanting.

There are only a handful of truths Anne Durham would have been faced to accept.

Maurice was gay and ran away with a servant.

Clive had strong feelings (love or whatever) for Maurice, but there never was any vice.

Given way Victorians were brought up Anne probably could wrap her head around Clive having intense feelings for another man. Again nothing happened with Maurice, and much would depend upon how Clive framed things.

That Maurice was "one of those men" OTOH would be a shock. Anne could ban him from her home and presence, and or make snide remarks but that's about all. Her main concern likely would (and should) have been Clive. His "coming out" as it were would explain why he never went near her, and thus Anne would have to determine what if anything was going to change for that side of married life. Divorce would be a scandal that ruined Clive's political/professional career and kill him socially. OTOH unless he and Anne could sort themselves out she at least was condemned to a rather unfulfilling marriage.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

Forshter's tale of Maurishce and Shcudder made my pusshy shnap, crackle and pop!

Speaking of Mapp and Lucia, did anyone here ever read David Blaize, from the same author (E. F. Benson)? It's a boarding school novel published in 1916 which is basically a quasi-gay romance, and this isn't an overstatement since it actually talks a lot about homosexual desires. There's also a fair amount of internalized homophobia, but it probably wouldn't be released otherwise.

David Blaize is super gay (as was E.F. Benson!)

R83 Benson family's history is quite interesting. Three sons, all gay! Lots of drama, and none of them ever got married.

For the record it wasn't just gay men like Clive who had issues facing their desires.

Vita Sackville-West though a bit later on than Clive, deserves a mention as well.

[quote] On another note see that push for "equality" in British media is going along

This was made by the Ideologically-driven BBC Woke Empire who have intersectional quotas in their staff and intersectional quotas in their stuff they push out through the various sub-empires within their million-dollar broadcasting Mega-empire (regardless if the taxpayers want it or not)

Yeah, how dare they acknowledge that not white people exist!

BTW, your right-wing buddies think gay shit is "woke" too

Yes, dear.

Even if it was cultural appropriation, which it isn't, it makes no difference. The director's artistic freedom is far more important than fuzzy thinking and poor scholarship emanating from academics scheming to make their mark.

[quote] As Lord Marchmain's mistress Clara Hicks notes

Who the hell is Clara Hicks?

R89 = sarcasm

We've had a "non-white" Anne Boleyn before.....Merle Oberon. The Klan grannies on this board are such whiners. You take a book by an iconic gay author and use it to bash people of color

R90

Typo, should be "Cara Hicks"..... Lord Marchmain's mistress.

[quote] You take a book by an iconic gay author and use it to bash people

R92 Squidgey Forster wasn't so "iconic" (to use your miss-used word).

He only pushed out five novels and then he hid in retirement for the next 40 years.

R94, only five novels? Gasp!

It would have been funny if Lord Marchmain's paramour was a woman named "Clara".

R94, you don't know the meaning of the word "iconic" yourself. Maybe you're confusing it with the word "prolific" since you seem to think it has to do with the number of novels he wrote

[quote] Charles is debatable, as he was a stand-in for Waugh himself, who had gay relationships in his youth but became an incredibly miserable Catholic traditionalist later in life.

Waugh was miserable from birth.

[quote] miserable

He found solace in the arms of the Catholic Church and produced at least 5 works of genius— which is more than us despite how happy we might claim to be.

He really wasn't much of a Catholic--he lacked the communitarianism that is one way in which Catholicism tends to differ from Protestanism. He wasn't crazy about his fellow man (or woman) at all. His Catholicism was a pretty retrograde and was part of an attempt to withdraw frm modern life---he probably should have become a Druid, but was otherwise too conventional.

[quote] retrograde

I don't think some 21st century unknown is qualified to sit in judgement of a man they don't know— especially an English genius whose books have never been out of print for 90 years.

If you've ever watched a clip of Evelyn Waugh you can see he was a major major sissy queen

Let's get back on topic, how about it?

He once was described as seeming like everyon's idea of a Methodist minister.

Waugh's family seems to be filled with eccentrics. His brother wrote "Loom of Youth" (notorious for referencing gay play at prep school long before this had become a cliche). His son warned of the dangers of "hamburger gases" while arguing that the ill-effects of alcohol and tobacco were exaggerated. His grandson is one of those loons who thinks Shakespeare had served as a front forothers.

R101: There are entire academic displines that are empowered to do just that and there's nothing that says amateurs can't either. Obviously you lack objectivity on this particular "genius" yourself.

I love fans who shriek, "How dare you criticize someone's personality when they were successful at their work?"

[quote] He once was described as seeming like everyon's idea of a Methodist minister.

You say that so determinately that I think you would recall who made that singular statement.

Forster was unlike Methodist minister. Forster said—

[quote] If I had lived in the year 400, pray God, I should have been a true and passionate Christian. The adventurer. But now I live in 1924, and the Christian venture is done. The adventure is gone out of Christianity.

[quote] “I do not believe in Belief.

Waugh seemed like a Methodist minister. Forster looked like a vole.

I love this photo of Evelyn Waugh’s family. The absolute state of it!

^ he sure passed on his (hella ugly) genes

^ typical boorish American comment

That family portrait at R110 was consciously designed to mimic 18th century family portraits

What a dickhole.

Are you offering to fill it, R114?

In honor of E.M. Forster's death anniversary (he died 6 June 1970), we have this...

R112: They really look glum, even for Brits. Ugly may be too extreme, but homely wouldn't be inaccurate.

R110 "Daddy, daddy, I have an itchy bum!"

R14 I just read The Charioteer, after you recommending it. What a beautiful book. I loved it. The first two chapters were hard to follow but after I got past those, I couldn't put it down. Wonderful. Thank you I wish someone would make it into a movie

If its half as good as the movie its definitely worth reading. R5 absolutely gets it

R8 I had much the same reaction. That and the ending of Latter Days (another beautiful gay film) gets me every time

A ‘sequel’ was recently announced!

It’s a quick read.

NYT review of "Alec"

Regarding comments in linked OP article about what happened to Maurice and Scudder after they ran off together, we do know that at least from real life.

E.M. Forster largely based "Maurice" on real life gay persons he knew especially Edward Carpenter and his life partner George Merrill.

Merrill died in 1928 and Carpenter one year later, they are buried side by side in same Surrey church yard.

If there is a story worth doing it seems to me Carpenter and Merrill would be quite interesting.

The NYT review is a non-review---gives us a glipse of the story but no discussion of the writing. Is it a "travelogue"?, is it well-written? I'm guessing from the review that it's at best, just ok reading.

Yes, I just read that article, and I’m not sure if it was a review or a discussion of a new release. Either way, I just received the book in the mail and I am eager to get started reading it.

The article in the Times says that the first third or so is a rehash of the original plot, only this time from Scudder’s point of view.

I wonder whether I should read Maurice before I read Alec, so far I have only seen the movie.

"A happy ending was imperative. I shouldn't have bothered to write otherwise. I was determined that in fiction anyway two men should fall in love and remain in it for the ever and ever that fiction allows, and in this sense, Maurice and Alec still roam the greenwood.”

― E.M. Forster, Maurice

why is this marked out?

James Ivory's Maurice in on Youtube.....