Martha Raye

We used to a fair amount some years ago, but time marched forward and Martha isn’t really well-known anymore to this generation.

Is that William Katt?

She was excellent in Monsieur Verdoux!

I liked her as the Boss Witch in Pufnstuf.

I wrote a piece on her for a scholarly book on clowns.

The funniest woman who ever lived!

A friend, who worked on her NBC show in the 50s, told me how while practicing a tap dance routine, one of her breasts popped out of her bodice and Martha said "I told you to wait for me in the taxi!"

She was one of the biggest female stars in early TV, probably only second to Lucy with a variety show all her own. It's sad that she's all but forgotten now.

The guy just grooving at 4. 28 makes the video even greater.

I read somewhere she was the inspiration for the Bette Midler character in For the Boys. Apparently she "went blue" in her comedy for the WWII troops and Bob Hope didn't like it. But may she slept with him. God, he was a real horndog.

maybe--I mistyped

Very talented lady, very funny with a fine singing voice. She was known for having a big mouth (mostly literally), but a friend pointed out she also had very good legs. She did a huge amount of work along with Hope of visiting the troops during wartime. Check her out in the film version of "Hellzapoppin' "; she and the film are pretty hilarious, as is a lot of her stuff.

That Bette Midler character was only somewhat loosely based on some of Martha's traits. She was never part of a married couple act.

I didn't think the Midler and Caan characters were married? Did I miss something?

I had no idea she sang with Judy.

I loved her as “the fresh mouth” in the Polident denture cleaner commercials AND As Carrie Sharples (Mel’s mom) on Alice!

Was Martha also a Big Band singer in the 1930s/40s? I think she had a respectably good voice for boogie-woogie and scat.

Martha had a really very good singing voice, and could swing it with the best.

I was just going to post that, R17. She was a little crazy with her singing, but that was in character and true to her personality.

When Harold Arlen and Johnny Mercer wrote "Blues in the Night" in a white heat, they called Margaret Whiting and said they had something they wanted her to hear. She suggested they come later because she had people over for dinner. She had Mickey Rooney, Judy Garland, Mel Tormé, and Martha Raye sitting there. But Mercer and Arlen insisted and came right over. Margaret Whiting said:

[quote]They came in the back door, sat down at the piano and played the score of "Blues in the Night." I remember forever the reaction. Mel got up and said, "I can't believe it." Martha couldn't say a word. Mickey Rooney said, "That's the greatest thing I've ever heard." Judy Garland said, "Play it again." We had them play it seven times. Judy and I ran to the piano to see who was going to learn it first. It was a lovely night.

Martha would take out her dentures and give the crew guys on "Alice"gumjobs. They always looked forward to her guest appearances.

Carrie from Alice

Should would have been perfect for the part of Joanne in "Company"

Martha was a wonderful Dolly---

R22. And apparently the only Dolly in the original run Jerry Herman didn’t see (he was recuperating from surgery). She never forgave him for that.

She really is forgotten now, and it's funny because she was constantly on TV nearly until the end of her life.

With Frances and Bing...

She took ginormous dumps

Scat, troll.

R27 ate Martha’s 💩

Mr. Paganini..

The Bugaloos?

This is nothing short of...

I saw her in a circus comedy drama with Doris Day and she was relatively attractive in it.

In Monsieur Verdeux she really was excellent as the burping, foul lottery winner seduced by Carlie Chaplin. So good.

Jumbo!

A shame she went buggy and had that gay (oh, excuse me, "bi") seventh husband Mark Harris drag her around until she died.

I saw a couple months ago he died in 2018.

Her appeal escaped me generally but I only knew her as someone whose trademark "big mouth" was all that had going for her. Seeing all these clips make me realize how talented and winning she was. I especially liked OP's clip.

I often go down YouTube rabbit holes, and it's kind of astounding how many performers for so much of the 20th century could do it all -- act, dance, sing, make us laugh or cry, entertain the troops, perform in all sorts of variety shows, and every other facet of show business. Now we're stunned that Meryl Streep can act and carry a tune.

Come Rain or Come Shine

I agree that her singing was tops. Always loved her "Melancholy Baby".

I remember her from some Abbot and Costello movie I used to watch when I was a kid. She was hilarious. Full of energy like Miss Betty Hutton.

Martha and Judy were both married to David Rose. I wonder how she was replacing Patsy Kelly as Pauline the wisecracking maid in "No No Nanette". I saw Kaye Ballard in that part. She's a lot of fun in those late 30's Paramount musicals. I love her with the phony French accent in "College Swing".

She was a guest on the Carol Burnett Show a lot the first few seasons. She is hilarious in all of the episodes I have seen.

[quote] When Harold Arlen and Johnny Mercer wrote "Blues in the Night" in a white heat, they called Margaret Whiting and said they had something they wanted her to hear. She suggested they come later because she had people over for dinner. She had Mickey Rooney, Judy Garland, Mel Tormé, and Martha Raye sitting there. But Mercer and Arlen insisted and came right over. Margaret Whiting said:

[quote] They came in the back door, sat down at the piano and played the score of "Blues in the Night." I remember forever the reaction. Mel got up and said, "I can't believe it." Martha couldn't say a word. Mickey Rooney said, "That's the greatest thing I've ever heard." Judy Garland said, "Play it again." We had them play it seven times. Judy and I ran to the piano to see who was going to learn it first. It was a lovely night.

Fast forward a few decades and Mags is shacked up with a gay porn star. And they said *I* was a fag hag!

[quote]She was one of the biggest female stars in early TV, probably only second to Lucy with a variety show all her own.

Hardly.

Does anyone know who the chorusboys in the Pippin clip are?

As I wrote my post, I remembered Dinah Shore but then I thought, ehhh....let her get her own thread.

Chaplin said that Raye stole their scenes—and he was glad to let her do it.

She completely shaped my childhood as Benita Bizarre

Monsieur Verdoux

Martha did the stock tour of the Lucy flop "Wildcat" as well as "Wonderful Town", "Anything Goes" and "Annie Get Your Gun". I can also imagine her as Miss Hannigan.

Meant to post this one...

Yeah, Mark Harris sponged off her. But when he met her she was sad and lonely and forgotten. He got her out of the house and showed her a good time. Maybe it was worth it?

John Mineo, Chris Chadman and Charles Ward are three of the Pippin male ensemble members. Sadly, all have passed.

Martha Raye's vocal chops are wonderful in that "Dolly" bootleg, thanks for posting it.

[quote]Does anyone know who the chorus boys in the Pippin clip are?

All dead from the AIDS.

George Clooney story about Martha Raye during their early 1982 road show.

The same year he told the Chicago Sun-Times, "There was nothing sweet and subtle about driving those broads around. In the backseat, Martha Raye would shout, ‘Georgie, pull the car over, I have to take a leak.’ Then she’d hang a leg out the window and do her stuff while I kept looking forward. Meanwhile, my Aunt Rosemary would say, ‘Honey, don’t turn around. You’ll learn too much about the aging process.’"

Martha sued Bette Midler for ripping off her life story in For the Boys. Her suit was thrown out.

Re the Mark Harris thing - Didn’t he go on Howard Stern a lot and Howard would make totally off color jokes about their sex life? I remember for a brief time they were all over the tabloids and lots of tv shows. ......... What ever happened to the opera singer/waiter who married Celeste Holm? Wasn’t he about 40 years her junior? Her adult sons weren’t happy. As I recall there was some financial problem she had with her New York apartment that she had lived in for decades.

Mark Harris cheated Martha's daughter out of her rightful inheritance, much like the fake prince cheated Zsa Zsa's daughter out of her inheritance.

Julie Brown and Tom Kenny parodied the Martha / Mark Harris relationship on The Edge (start at 8:02)

I'm 40, and I discovered Martha Raye, Imogene Coca, and Carol Channing in 1985's 'Alice in Wonderland' miniseries by Irwin Allen. Lots of old timers interspersed with then-current CBS stars like Patrick Duffy and Donna Mills.

R60 Thank you! That is one of my all-time favorite skits. The sound effect at the end of her head hitting the side of the stage used to have me in stitches!

Vic Tayback said she gave good blowjobs. She took her choppers out.

That's absolute vicious, r60.

Carrie Sharples from ALICE!

bump

4 Jills in a Jeep

Martha didn’t tolerate BS. She was a good friend to Rock Hudson, and she hated Marc Christian. She read his beads. That was my impression, after reading Rock Hudson’s biography.

Martha was the blowjob queen.

I thought that was Nancy Davis (Reagan)?

R69, So was Mae West, who would regularly provide head to the muscle men in her nightclub act.

My father was in the US Army during the Korean War. I remember watching TV in the 1960s with him and Martha Raye came on the show, and he made several disparaging remarks about her. I didn't understand it entirely at the time, but he implied that he saw her in a USO show and she came on to him, and he was repulsed by her.

Apparently her personal life was a mess. She married SEVEN times. Her second husband, David Rose, was Judy Garland's first. husband. Her last husband was a giggling flaming homo named Mark Harris, who frequently appeared on the Howard Stern show. A friend asked her why she married him; she said "He's a man...and I don't want to be alone."

She had one child, a daughter with her second husband. She left her entirely out of her will; she sued, but I don't think she got any money from her mother's estate. God knows what happened with Raye and her daughter; I heard that Raye said that she wished she'd had an abortion. Sounds like she was one pathetic excuse for a mother. Strange that she was so selfless and giving to soldiers and so heartless and cruel to her own daughter.

Martha's first husband was Bud Westmore, of the famous family of Hollywood make-up artists.

Five months, over and out.

Her Wiki...

Back in those days living together ("living in sin") was such a huge taboo, a star's career would've been over if it became public knowledge. You just had to get married if you wanted to live together, that's why all the movie stars and other celebs of that era had multiple marriages. Nobody today has been married four, five or even more times than that.

The Man I Love

It's been a hundred years since I read her book, but I remember Anita O'Day saying that Martha was her biggest influence.

Martha replaced Rose Marie back in the Late 70s / Early 80s in the touring cabaret show 4 Girls 4. The other "Girls" were Rosemary Clooney, Margaret Whiting & Helen O'Connell. For whatever reason, both Martha & Rosemary developed a deep hatred for the beautiful, former big band vocalist Helen O'Connell. Miss O'Connell's greatest claim to fame was her long string of hits with the Jimmy Dorsey Orchestra in the 1940s.

According to Martha's last husband Mark Harris (a topic in itself), he & Martha were sitting at home one evening in 1993 & watching the news, when they announced that Helen O'Connell had passed away. Martha exhaled, took a long drag from her cigarette and said "At least we'll never have to hear that fucking 'Tangerine' (one of Helen's signature hits) again!"

Martha was a Pop vocalist but had soul, occasionally used scat vocals and had a real feeling for Jazz. So it's easy to see why Anita O'Day lists her as an influence, R78.

She was known as the queen of turds.

R81. Well, she was married to Erna, after all.

I saw her in Nanette when she replaced Kelly. Yes she was sensational and she got Keeler's big tap number I Want to Be Happy. Keeler was as well no longer in the show(somebody help me with who took her place.) Benny Baker had taken over for Gilford, Gallagher was still in it and Van had returned having taking time off to do his immortal performance in Lost Horizon which was going to open in a couple of months. It wasn't quite the party it was when the show opened but it was still fun.

Aww, I liked Helen.

I can't believe her queen husband had four kids!

I like Helen O'Connell too, R84. A very distinctive vocalist. I've read several accounts of the 4 Girls 4 drama (a Margaret Whiting autobiography, 2 separate Rosemary Clooney bios and a few insider accounts on Rosemary Clooney's website). I get the impression that Rosemary & Martha simply didn't like Helen because she was very pretty, youthful and cared a lot about her appearance. Rosemary even admitted in both her autobios *paraphrasing* "Helen was so beautiful! She was 10 years older than me but looked 10 years younger!"

Helen was the very first singer to record 'When The Sun Comes Out'. Twenty years before Streisand had a hit with it. I've always loved her 1957 re-recording of it.

[quote] Sadly, all have passed.

What have they passed? Kidney stones?

Thank you for that R85. Mark Harris was always HILARIOUS on Stern! I always wondered if Howard had ever acknowledged his death.

According to Mark, supposedly Martha knew he was gay and suggested they get married, just to keep her "horrible daughter" Melodye Condos from getting her money when she passed. Melodye & Mark eventually did go to court after Martha's death for control of the estate. Melodye lost and Mark blew through his millions funding a failed singing career, bad plastic surgery, designer clothes and male escorts.

I wish that someone had gotten Melodye's side of the story. I've never seen an article with her take on the situation. The only thing I could find out about her is that (like her mother) she's a singer as well.

"According to Mark, supposedly Martha knew he was gay and suggested they get married, just to keep her "horrible daughter" Melodye Condos from getting her money when she passed. Melodye & Mark eventually did go to court after Martha's death for control of the estate."

She didn't have to marry the revolting Mark Harris to "keep her horrible daughter" from getting her money. All she would have had to do was to exclude her in her will. She was an old, ill, lonely woman and along comes this much younger man who fawns over her and lavishes her with attention (sounds like what happened with Judy Garland and Mickey Deans, doesn't it?). No doubt she was grateful for his company and didn't want to be alone, so she married. Of course she knew he was gay; how could she not? Aside from that he was truly a sleazy ;piece of shit. Asked by some interviewer if he and Martha had sex he went into a fit of giggling and squealed "YES!" Yeah, I'm sure they had sex, just like Michael Jackson and LIsa Marie Presley "had sex." I don't think poor Martha's flaming hubby would have touched her with a ten foot pole.

R86, When Helen O'Connell and Joe Garagiola co-hosted The Today Show, they did not get along.

I was introduced to Martha Raye in the early/mid 80s via reruns of Sid & Marty Krofft’s 1970 show, the Bugaloos.

Martha Raye doing a spoof of "Your Hit Parade" (1957)

R89, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you say. Mark was obviously a sleazy character. It's a shame that with Martha gone, close friends all gone & with the daughter never publicly giving her side of the story; all we have to go by is Mark's account of how it all went down.

R90, judging from the bits about Helen O'Connell that I've read in several books & articles, she seems to have lead a colorful life. Famous big band vocalist. First female host of The Today Show. Married for a time to famous novelist & war hero Tom T. Chamales, who reportedly was physically abusive. He killed himself on the day he was due in court for beating her up. Like Rosemary Clooney, she eventually had a nervous break down at some point. She married the much younger ex-husband of one of her daughters! She co-hosted the Miss America pageant for years and helped organize it. Her last husband was the famous conductor Frank De Vol, who wrote the Brady Bunch theme. Etc, etc. If ever anyone deserved a book of their own!

Quite voluptuous

Here's 14 glorious pages devoted to the 4 Girls 4 cabaret show. The original members were Rosemary Clooney, Margaret Whiting, Rose-Marie & Barbara McNair. Helen O'Connell quickly replaced McNair. The most well known lineup was Clooney, Whiting, Rose-Marie & O'Connell.

Over the years replacements included Martha Raye, Kay Starr & Kaye Ballard. Sounds like a hell of a show.

The blowjob QUEEN!!!!!

"Take it from a Bigmouth!"

Rose Marie didn’t like Helen either. I don’t remember the details but it was all discussed in Rose Marie’s documentary. That is a good film.

OK R98. Margaret Whiting was more diplomatic in her book. She describes several fights with Helen. One big altercation with all the women (with Helen front & center) was over Margaret's relationship with Jack Wrangler. But Margaret never comes out & says she didn't like Helen. But then again Margaret's autobio was published in 1986, when Helen was still alive. LOL.

It's ironic that Rose Marie hated Helen the most out of all the girls. Margaret (in her book) disclosed that it was actually a fight with Rosemary that caused Rose Marie to quit the show. It seems that Rose Marie ran several minutes over on her set when "The Girls" played Vegas. This forced (the next performer) Clooney to have to shorten her set. When a furious Clooney made her entrance, she ripped into Rose Marie right on the stage in front of the audience. Rose Marie quit that same night.

Thanks R99 I didn’t know any of that! Always more than one side of the story. Very interesting. That wasn’t included in the Rose Marie doc, of course!

Estelle Parsons, Fay Emerson, Betsy Palmer, Barbara Walters and now, Helen O'Connell all claimed to be the first female host of the Today Show?

It was true love.

You're welcome R100. And of course it wasn't. When George Clooney became a superstar, his favorite aunt Rosemary suddenly became a saint. The only one who even hinted that Rosie could sometimes be mean & erratic was her longtime friend Patti Page.

I can't remember if it was in the Rosie bios I read or possibly some old newspaper/magazine articles, but when drug-addicted Rosie Clooney cracked up in the Late 60s, she REALLY cracked up! She was opening for Bobby Kennedy on the campaign trail when he was assassinated. By that point she was already a drug-addict, but the RFK incident seems to have pushed her over the edge. Immediately after the assassination, she announced her retirement from showbiz at a press that no one showed up to. At some point she pulled a gun on a taxi-driver with her young son in the car. Finally there was a ruckus at a hotel, in which she had to be physically restrained by authorities, sedated and hauled off to the loony bin.

Well, r101, we know Estelle did the weather...

R101, calling Helen O'Connell the FIRST Today Girl may have been my own blunder. I thought I heard that she was the first. It may have just been that she was one of the first Today girls & I misunderstood.

I found out recently from these threads that Mia Farrow's mom Maureen O'Sullivan was a Today Girl at some point as well. Her replacement was Babs Walters. But that was after Helen's stint.

"I Changed Her Diapers: The Mark Harris Story"

Starring Jack Black as Mark

Co-starring Glenn Close as Martha Raye

AND

Special Guest Stars: Daniel Radcliffe as Sir Charlie Chaplin and Jon Lovitz as Stuttering John

Martha & Red Skelton telling dirty jokes/being risque during what looks like a rehearsal.

"The Martha Raye Show"

Kay Starr was marvelous.

You have to be pretty damn talented to steal scenes from Charlie Chaplin.

Saw Martha at the Ballroom in 1985. So funny and so vulgar. Got a mike caught in her mouth and said "Did I hurt you, Dear?" A table of 10 Yuppies celebrating Christmas early got up and left in the middle of Martha's set leaving about 5 people to enjoy this great comic and singer.

Until the Ballroom closed, there was a poster signed by Martha above a urinal in the men's room: Bless You!

O'Connell < Lawson

Most of us remember Helen O'Connell co-hosting the Miss USA pageants with Bob Barker. Well, what she did was introduce commercials: "And now a word from Massengill. When you're not feeling so fresh... down there".

Thank you, R111. A legend like Martha Raye playing to a room of 5 and still giving it her all. And today we have Selena Gomez and Lil FlavorOfTheMonth rappers selling out arenas. SMH.

R113 All that and Leif Garrett too!

LOL @ R113. Between Bob Barker (Old Pervert) & Leif Garrett (Young Pervert), I wonder how many contestants they screwed?

Oh Shit! I had no idea that Rose Marie was dead! Just found out while researching the documentary that was suggested.

Helen O'Connell used to go on talk shows and yammer about the demise of the kind of music that people used to pay her to sing. She seemed like one of those clueless bastards who mistook nostalgia for history and couldn't change with the times. She seemed so uptight and conservative, I didn't realize that she ran off with a daughter's ex-hubby, yet she got judge-y about Margaret Whiting and gay porn husband. She sounds like a piece of work.

Martha Raye just seemed desperate in her later years. That's why she was giving her all, but resorting to cheap vulgarity for a room of 5. And probably how she wound up with Mark Harris, whom I guess was her bargain basement Jack Wrangler.

R117: get with the program. Her modest old house in Canoga Park was a "Tasteful Friends" feature here.

This is from Mark's own mouth, so I guess you could take it with a grain of salt, but it was one of the only things he was consistent about on all of his appearances on Stern. Martha and her daughter had a falling out because the daughter, after Martha's illness, didn't think that Martha was capable of running her own life and I believe wanted to put Martha away in some type of long term care facility and Martha fought that. (Think of the Dorothy/Sophia/Shady Pines situation) Enter Mark and the rest is history or comedy gold -- you decide.

I don't know if they had problems before Martha's illness, but things surely deteriorated afterwards. The daughter didn't go away quietly, but eventually walked away with $50,000 of the estate.

I listen to the old Mark Harris appearances on Stern at least once a year. Those appearances are the best, both funny as shit and tragic. Mark's attempts to get into show business are everything.

R118, the fight between Margaret Whiting and the rest of The Girls that involved Jack Wrangler steemed from a scheduling issue. Margaret had told the girls months in advance that she wouldn't be available during a particular week because she was taking a trip with Jack (for his birthday or something). At the time no one cared.

Fast forward to right before Margaret's trip. The Girls were offered either a new engagement, or the opportunity to extend the engagement that they were playing. Margaret balked and reminded the girls that she had informed them months back that she wasn't available. All hell broke loose.......

Margaret said that she was ambushed and shouted at by all 3 girls (Rosemary, Rose Marie & Helen). She also said that a livid Helen got in her face and screamed at her *paraphrasing* "Don't you EVER let your love life interfere with MY CAREER!". To say shit got ugly would be an understatement!

R120, those Mark Harris appearances are some of the best Stern shows of all time!

Remember this E! episode when he brought along his (paid for) boy toy/musical accomplice Davyd? And after some grilling from Howard, Davyd admits (right in front of Mark) that he finds Mark repulsive? LOL. Classic stuff!

Martha swallowed cum right up till the end.......

"Don't you EVER let your love life interfere with MY CAREER!"

*

You know, r121, who among us here on DL has not had the occasion to say that.

I only know later Martha Raye, and she was one of the most annoying people I've ever seen - kind of like Jerry Lewis, you wonder why anyone would consider them a talent.

"he & Martha were sitting at home one evening in 1993 & watching the news, when they announced that Helen O'Connell had passed away."

In 1993, the evening news announced that people had DIED. Religion did not dictate how death was described on the news. Only relatives of the deceased used the term "passed away," which sounded to me like they couldn't come to terms with the fact that the deceased was dead, dead, dead.

Why are you so hung up on semantics, r126?

Because people no longer die they pass away. They fall asleep and go to their eternal reward. When in reality they go through the trauma of dying and are then are as dead as a doorknob.

I thought people envisioned little angels attaching wings so the dead could pass into religious eternity. Why is Lester Holt so afraid to say died? To soften the blow for the viewing audience that some D-level TV actor is dead as a doornail?

To each his own, r128, but feel free to ridicule people that may find comfort in words that may not be scientifically accurate.

R130, Martha Raye is not your relative. Why you'd need "comfort" regarding her death 26 years ago is not normal.

Moving on and shining.

Because you're criticizing people's use of the word *passing* and I don't understand why you get bent out of shape over it. What the hell difference does it make?

It's about pushing religion over reality.

Well, I don't mind when people use the term. I'm not a religious person, and I don't feel like religion is being pushed on me when somebody uses it.

God bless you both. And Merry CHRISTmas to all! God-willing, we will finally find peace here on DataLounge!

That's all for now! I'm about to watch Kirk Cameron's latest project. Like it says in Matthew 15:11, we're all special in our own way!

But you are absolutely the most *special*, r136...

Back to the subject at hand...

Words, words, words....I'm so sick of words! I get words all day long, first from him then from you....is that all you blighters can do?

R137, I actually prefer the old school terms slow & retarded. "Special" is much too PC for me.

I'm sure you do, r140. Would you care to contribute something on-topic?

Melodye's father, and Martha's ex, Nick Condos.

MARY!!!

R29, thank you for sharing Martha singing '(If You Can't Sing It) You'll Have to Swing It (Mr. Paganini)'. The interesting thing about that particular standard is that it was (rightfully) a signature tune for both Martha AND Ella Fitzgerald.

It was originally written by Sam Coslow for Miss Raye to sing in the 1936 film "Rhythm On The Range" (see R29). But the first commercial recording (available for the public to purchase) that same year was by a teen-aged Ella Fitzgerald with the Chick Webb Orchestra. Both women performed the song live for the rest of their performing careers, with Ella re-recording it several times as well.

Here's Ella's late 40s/early 50s Decca recording of it. A personal favorite of mine.

Martha and Bob Hope doing How'dJa Like to Love Me? from College Swing (1938).

Martha playing Password in 1965. She's gushing about how her daughter (that she later disinherited) just delivered her first grandchild.

Steve Condos was in Sugar and Barry Nelson was in The Act. When Nelson first showed up people seemed more excited than by anything else in the show.

I’ve seen that Pippin clip before. It always makes me sad. The guys Seem really cool but what are the chances the aides didn’t get them?

For the holidays...

R148, I think everyone in that clip is dead, including most of the audience.

[quote]The guys Seem really cool but what are the chances the aides didn’t get them?

Most chorus boys can't afford personal assistants.

Are we SURE the chorus boys have died? The two behind Martha (fake playing instruments) are cute. The one with less face makeup has a cute smile.

I keep confusing her with Rosemary Clooney.

One of her last singing performances...

Martha didn't do duets with Dietrich, r153.

I remember listening to a record compilation of 50s music my folks had, and there was a duet of Rosemary Clooney and Dietrich singing "Too Old to Cut the Mustard". Clooney sounded great and jazzy, Dietrich sounded like a moose with a cold. Somehow it kinda worked.

I don't know much about her later career, but in the '30's and '40's, she livened up every movie she was in. Especially during the war years, she was absolutely wonderful.

Nancy Walker was the poor man's Martha Raye.

I have the Mustard 78 rpm, r156, the flip side is Good For Nothing. There's a few others on the extended play record.

I agree with that assessment, R158.

R158, Ironic that Martha replaced Nancy on "McMillan and Wife".

Slightly off subject, but people Like R155, R156 & R159 who can appreciate the Dietrich/Clooney novelty records will love the hilariously bitchy Lisa Kirk/Fran Warren duets from 1950.

This is 'Just A Girl That Men Forget'

Lisa Kirk & Fran Warren perform the hilarious 'Dearie' in 1950. This duet was also recorded by Ethel Merman & Ray Bolger and Jo Stafford & Gordon MacRae that same year.

Compare Martha in Pippin to Andrea. Both are great as Berthe, but I'd give the edge to Martha. She seems more natural, less shouty, and less "theatrical" somehow.

Martha

r164 Fuck you.

R166, there's no video of Irene Ryan in the role, so relax - I'm only comparing Andrea Martin's and Martha Raye's performances.

The first time I recall enjoying Martha Raye's talents was as a kid in the 1990s, when I saw her in this Late 30s Paramount Comedy "Give Me A Sailor". Her costars include Bob Hope & Betty Grable. If I recall correctly, Miss Raye (introduces and) sings 'A Little Kiss At Twilight', a popular hit of that time.

Betty Grable got to sing the other hit song, 'What Goes On Here In My Heart'.

I saw Foote and Chadman in the original cast. Foote is still alive. I believe he was in the original cast of Dolly. He could write an interesting autobio. Just him talking about Champion creating the Hello Dolly number would be great.

Raye was also in the film Boys From Syracuse. I don't even know if it exists in any watchable form. Decades ago I went to see it at the Carnegie Hall Cinema and the film was in such terrible shape after 10 minutes I left. The only time I asked for my money back.

Here's a cute Mid 80s interview with Rosemary Clooney. She mentions that her replacement in 4 Girls 4 was Gisele MacKenzie.

This thread is about Martha Raye, not Rosemary Clooney!

Shut up R172! Rosemary and anyone 4 Girls 4 related became a sub-topic, because of Raye's involvement in that act.

How I hate Pippin.

A musical for dumb 70s hippies.

Nonsense, R174. It's not my favourite, but there sure were some great performances in it - including Martha Raye's. NOT Rosemary Clooney.

Does anyone else remember in 1994 as Martha practically lay on her deathbed, the tabloids/TV news magazines began reporting she had enjoyed a lesbian affair with Joan Crawford back in the 40s or 50s? The press ate it up. I was a child at the time and assumed Martha was peddling her memoirs.

Today after doing some research, I see that no such memoir was ever published. It seems that Mark Harris was desperately trying to secure a lucrative book deal before Martha passed. So he fed the press the Crawford story and promised to go into detail about that, other Hollywood affairs, orgies with servicemen, etc if he was given a deal ASAP. What a fucking scumbag! He had no qualms about ruining this War Hero's reputation for a few quick bucks. He was entertaining on Stern, but the fact that he died penniless, morbidly obese and all alone sounds like Karma. To this day several writers have repeated the Joan Crawford / Martha Raye affair allegations as if they are facts.

Martha & Joan Crawford did know each other. It seems that Joan severed as Matron-Of-Honor at one of Martha's weddings in the late 50s.

If any of you fine people are slmoking tonight, I recommend you watch the video in OP.

I have many thoughts. 1st, for eldergays, are the hairstyles and dress of the audience normal for when this was filmed? The audience seems to think they're dressed up, but the clothes aren't really that attractive. Not that they look cheaply dressed, but just plain ugly.

2 - Martha seems to have a pretty big chest. I suppose she's sagging though.

3 - the back drop is kind of insane.

4 - the blond playing Pippin is nice looking for the 80s, but who wears an armored tank top? Makes no sense.

Like Bette Davis, Martha smoked and drank right to the very end.

R176, Martha's groom was quite the hunk.

Almost 200 posts and nobody recalled she was a Colonel in the Army Reserve and Honorary Colonel in the Green Berets AND Marines. Martha is the only woman buried in the Special Forces cemetery at Ft. Bragg.. She had been under fire multiple times in Vietnam while rendering medical aid to the wounded at forward bases

Quite a contrast to modern celebrities..

I don't think a lot of people knew that, R180.

That was the costume even on Broadway when the show opened.

And I wish somebody like Katt had played Pippin. Rubinstein had no attraction whatsoever. Mediocre singing and acting and plain looking. I wish Raye had taken over for Ryan. When the chair turned around for Stickney people were who the fuck is that? Ryan of course had gotten a big ovation which is how it was designed by Fosse.

Katt was definitely better than Rubinstein from what I've seen, R182.

From the performances I've seen/heard, Martha is my favorite Berthe. I haven't seen Ryan's Berthe on video, but I prefer her to Andrea Martin in the revival.

We've discussed Ryan's performance before and boy talking about bringing down the house. Everybody already loved her so when they found out she could knock a song out of the park it was pandemonium.

I got her autograph at the stagedoor and she was so tiny and frail as a sparrow. Some idiot took her picture with a flashbulb camera right in her face and it practically knocked her over. She then walked by herself towards 8th Av. I couldn't help thinking dear god what is Irene Ryan doing at 46th and 8th? This was the 70s after all and it was like she was walking into the seediest spot imaginable. I wanted to shout you can't go there!

Here's a live recording, R184. Shame there's no video footage. You're so lucky to have seen her before she passed.

She's one of those celebrities who seems like she was never young, like Angela Lansbury.

Here she is on the cast recording. She does a great job.

I think everyone who got to see her performance felt they were lucky seeing her.

[quote]Here she is on the cast recording. She does a great job.

I'm sure no one would ever have predicted that Irene Ryan would end up on a Motown album.

I used to listen to Pippin a lot when I was a kid and I saw the original cast. I haven't heard it in decades. Berthe is 66? I want to slit my throat.

I saw the tour with Barry Williams. If I recall correctly, Dortha Duckworth was Berthe.

Miss Ryan...

I was just out of college and a fresh NYC transplant when Pippin opened and I saw it many times in its first year on Broadway.

No later video of the show really captures the inventiveness and wit and sexiness that was onstage. John Rubenstein was beyond adorable, the balletic number where the chorus girls ravaged his near nude body had to be seen fresh and live onstage to be truly appreciated. The entire cast was wonderful, especially Ben Vereen and Leland Palmer. And Ann Reinking really stood out in a chorus ensemble of the best dancers on Broadway. If I had to say there was a weak link I'd say it was Jill Clayburgh, who seemed a little bit like she was in a different show, but I think that's somewhat a flaw in the writing. But a minor complaint.

Pippin still remains for me one of the best designed shows I've seen in my 50+ years of theater-going. It lost Design Tonys to A Little Night Music that year but pretty always wins over invention.

Irene Ryan was phenomenal...the perfect match of character and role and her number was never the same without her. I saw both Dorothy Stickney and Lucie Lancaster and both were just OK. Of course, it was the audience's great familiarity with and love for Granny Clampett that made the difference but, nevertheless, it was magic.

Seeing Andrea Martin in the revival....she was great but, for me anyway, very effortful. The joy and exuberance isn't there in the same way.

And forgot to add that Pippin chorus boy Gene Foote is very much alive and on Facebook. He contributes a lot to the various Broadway fan pages. I think, except for Ann Reinking, all of the ladies of the ensemble, including Candy Brown, Pamela Sousa, Cheryl Clark and Kathryn Doby are all still with us.

And, as many here may know, Leland Palmer, the original Fastrada (and the film All That Jazz), left show biz long ago and is now a rabbi in Texas, working under her original name (which I can't remember).

Wow, R193, I'm jealous! I saw the revival and enjoyed it very much, but I wish I could have seen the original cast and/or the 81 televised version with Martha Raye.

Andrea Martin was good, but, like you say, I didn't find her performance as natural as Martha's. She was sing-shouting her lyrics the night I saw it, and though I enjoyed her, I felt the song took on a totally different tone with her performance.

I initially liked the idea of the circus themed revival, but now, in retrospect, I think the original staging is better. I think the circus aspect overwhelmed the music, plot, dance, and overall intent of the show.

John Rubinstein and Ben Vereen, during the original run:

No love for Lucie Arnaz Luckinbill, who played Berthe on tour?

[quote]Irene Ryan was phenomenal...the perfect match of character and role and her number was never the same without her. I saw both Dorothy Stickney and Lucie Lancaster and both were just OK. Of course, it was the audience's great familiarity with and love for Granny Clampett that made the difference but, nevertheless, it was magic.

I always assumed the "... by a man who calls me Granny" line was written with Irene Ryan in mind (i.e., they had already cast her or planned to cast her) but maybe it was just a fortuitous coincidence---or Schwartz rewrote it after Ryan was cast.

Can't imagine the line didn't come about with Ryan's casting, r198. Of course, it brought the house down in 1972.

She brought an undeniable adoration through our history with her, like Alexis Smith, Dorothy Collins and Yvonne de Carlo brought to Follies the season before.

I don't think you're being fair to Aronson calling the set pretty. I thought it was beautiful as was the whole production though I could have done without the plexiglass. That was a bewildering choice.

You know, I think I was wrong and Tony Walton actually did win the Tony that ear for Pippin. Yes, the perplexing plexiglass was what lost it for Boris.

I would have awarded the Costume Design Tony to Patricia Zipprodt for Pippin.

[quote]Almost 200 posts and nobody recalled she was a Colonel in the Army Reserve and Honorary Colonel in the Green Berets AND Marines. Martha is the only woman buried in the Special Forces cemetery at Ft. Bragg.. She had been under fire multiple times in Vietnam while rendering medical aid to the wounded at forward bases

Everything but the hounds snapping at her rear end.

She acted with Frances Farmer. My friend was a waiter during one of her NYC club appearances in the 80s, and asked Raye about her.

She got a little somber and said simply, “Frances Farmer was an innate actress.”

Not sure what’s going on here:

Looks like the Coolie puppet's about to finger bang Martha.

A reunion of Dollies.

[quote]She acted with Frances Farmer. My friend was a waiter during one of her NYC club appearances in the 80s, and asked Raye about her. She got a little somber and said simply, “Frances Farmer was an innate actress.”

Suddenly, she cackled "But she's dead and I'm not!" Pointed a liver-spotted finger in my direction and barked. "So how about swishing your little fairy ass over to the bar and getting Major Maggie another stiff one."