In Japan, more people died from suicide last month than from COVID in all of 2020

I saw this today. Very sad. Suicide rates for women rose 80%.

Dark times are ahead. I don't blame people for making that choice. It's something that needs to be discussed, but notice how very little is being said to those of us who suffer from depression and isolation and others who are learning what depression is during this time.

Don't they always have a very high suicide rate or am I confusing them with another Asian country. I remember reading something about suicide forests and rent-by-hour hotels that some days had more suicides check-in than lovers.

I don't know why east Asian countries have such high suicide rates (it is S Korea as well as Japan that I know of), in the US east Asian men don't have highest levels of suicide, they're levels are among the lowest, white men and native men have the highest.

Young gay people also have a higher rate of suicide than the general population thanks to all the homophobia they experience.

I could be completely wrong as I am just basing this on my observations looking into their culture but it seems highly conformist, too much stress placed on a person's job, very rigid in terms of gender norms and things like seniority in the workplace and densely populated so you can feel very lonely. When I visited Hong Kong and Beijing alone I never felt so lonely in my life, people everywhere, so many it looked like ant hills and I felt so insignificant and alone in the world even though I am a giant introvert who normally enjoys my own company and likes living alone. When I flew back in JFK NYC seemed so airy and almost empty by contrast.

I read that corporate culture and work environment in Japan were horrendous, causing a lot lf stress, but it was some time ago and don’t know if it got any better.

Oppression (cultural, political, and school and work-related) leads to depression where suicide is a viable option as a way out.

This happens when the oppressed are too scared to stand up against the oppressors.

It's a little weird for Americans to be discussing Japan's suicide rate as if they are doing something wrong that we are not.

We have a suicide rate of approximately 20 military veterans a day, far more than have died in combat since Vietnam.

R8 This discussion is about Japan. When we discuss suicide in Japan or obesity in the UK or income inequality in Brazil we are not suggesting that the US does not have these problem. Instead, we are keeping on topic, not everything has to go back to the US because if it does we cannot discuss anything. Every discussion will be ended in 2 seconds with and that would be a shame because the same issue can have different causes around the world and it's good to understand other cultures and see what can be learned.

r7 not necessarily.

For example, Black women in the US have a very low rate of suicide relative to other groups, and at the same time, are one of the most oppressed demographics in the country. Thomas Joiner, an expert on suicide, believes that one crucial factor in completed suicide is "thwarted belongingness" -- a failure to enjoy meaningful bonds with people/the community. (Interestingly, one study showed that women with several children have low rates of suicide -- and women with 5+ have very low rates. Might be getting the numbers wrong, but the principle stands. Living alone, on the other hand, has long been known to increase the risk of suicide.)

Joiner theorizes that the tight family and community bonds enjoyed by Black women act as a buffer protecting them from suicide.

R8 i don't think anyone is saying the US is better. We've had a 25% increase in suicides in the past 20 years. A relative committed (a brutal) suicide this year when covid started and I've known more suicides personally than cancer cases.

The jump in Japan -- a country known for having a huge problem, even more so than other countries like the US (which yes,is abhorrent for a western country) -- to astronomical jumps in numbers, like 80% in such a short time period, is worthy of discussion, no?

Japan is home to "the suicide forest" where mass amounts hang themselves in trees. Saying there's an issue there is not saying there's not a problem elsewhere. It might even help to look at what might be at the root of it to then examine parallels to our own culture and practices.

i like my suey on the side

I think there's a lot of pressure to achieve along with the shame of being a failure in Asian countries.

Why the comparison to Covid deaths? Don’t see the relevance. Japan has been quite successful in dealing with the virus through social distancing guidelines without enforced lockdowns. But they've always had a very high suicide rate, particularly among young men. It's a social issue unconnected to Covid or Covid measures.

Also r13 the long tradition of ritual suicide, which was seen as preferable to bringing shame to one's family.

Yes R15, shame, saving face, honor, status, wealth, all mean a lot to Asians. Very rigid, traditional societies. I don't think they have a lot of fun.

Do the Japanese even have a word for fun?

I have no sympathy for those who commit suicide. Not only is it cowardly, but it is quite possibly the most selfish thing a person can do.

People who kill themselves set off a bomb in their wake that destroys the lives of everyone who ever cared about them.

I love Japan

r18 most people who commit suicide have a serious mental illness (or in some cases a personality disorder, usually BPD) that turns terminal. They are usually in excruciating psychic pain in the days, months, and often years preceding their suicide.

I would guess the vast majority of completed suicides realize they are hurting their families and friends. I'm not arguing it isn't an inherently self-centered act, but there is a lot of evidence that shows suicide isn't really impulsive, that, instead, those who commit it feel like a burden and ultimately conclude after long deliberation those around them would be better off without them.

In fact, feeling like a burden is a huge red flag among those at risk for suicide.

You're an idiot R18!

Sounds like my kinda place!

Starting to think that the cruelty is the point of the lockdowns.

nothing new, japan is notorious for her suicide rates

If that were true, Trump and his cronies would have embraced lockdowns like he does busty, blonde hookers who look like Vanky R23.

The Japanese people would commit suicide while a fat, ugly troll like R18 would rather massacre others to blow off steam.

R25 he is gonna be gone in a few weeks. Whatever will you talk about then?

R20, if they have mental illness, then they really should be seeking treatment.

Growing up, I knew of two college-aged guys who committed suicide and in both cases it destroyed the lives of the families he left behind. My mother was friendly with one of the mothers and this poor woman never recovered from losing her child. It was painful for everyone in the community to watch. She was such a happy, caring and joyful woman and she’s never been the same since.

[quote]if they have mental illness, then they really should be seeking treatment.

I don't know the exact numbers, but a significant number of successful suicides see a mental health professional in the days/weeks before their deaths. Also, a number of suicides happen on psychiatric wards, and patients also commit suicide shortly after they are released.

There is absolutely no guarantee that receiving mental health treatment will protect against suicide.

It must be nice to live in such a black and white world. Reality is full of grays and nuance.

Did somebody mention Japan dudes?

R18 Probably lacks empathy for anyone.

People who suffer from severe depression are in an unimaginable state of despair and pain, and just want it to end. People afflicted with it are some of the most maligned people on the planet, because the people who are able to go about their daily lives can't comprehend why the depressed can't do the same. It isn't that simple or easy for the severely afflicted. There's a line some of them insidiously cross at some point that brings them to a point of no return.

It's so easy to judge in ignorance.

[quote] There is absolutely no guarantee that receiving mental health treatment will protect against suicide.

Exactly. It's also not easy to access good mental health treatment when you don't have money. I have a family member in Ireland who attempted suicide and was released from hospital the next day with stronger medication that just zonked him and make him semi comatose. They gave him the number for some helpline that was understaffed and couldn't pick up most of the time. He was eventually referred to a counsellor but didn't have a car and couldn't get to her so they gave him phone sessions and when the 6 session were done he was told to go back to his GP for more anti-depressants. He's still with us on a cocktail of pills and his mother has been through the mill trying to get him help. I want to scream when people say 'just get help'. If only it were that simple.

Oh don't worry for me dear R23/R27, I have a rather long list. I cannot WAIT until all he is, is an orange stain and another crazy twitter poster who routinely gets suspended for violating TOS.

Bunch of foreign pussies.

Japanese Kamikaze pilots signed up for duty knowing what could happen. Kamikaze pilots are honored and revered.

While I know the topic here is depression, still, perhaps self-immolation is viewed differently there.

Ubasute is the practice of abandoning your old and frail parents in the woods to die. Seems Japanese culture is all about being useful and productive. If not, you better die.

Exactly, r29. Unfortunately i have a friend that tried to kill herself last week. She has been seeing a psychiatrist for years and is medicated. Though she had beenin isolation with her family for the 2 weeks before, that couldn’t have helped. She has suffered for depression for years and years.

My first moments reaction was to consider her incredible selfish (her 3 children were home) but her state of despair is profound and in such a condition we cannot really evaluate the suffering of such people. On the other hand i m not really sure she fully meant it.

[quote] Do the Japanese even have a word for fun?

Fuzakerunjanaizo!

This is fun! Minus the parts that flirt with blackface.

You know, for a long time Japanese culture glorified suicide as some kind of noble gesture to save face. It was always about honor and face - saving. And I think the roots of this modern phenomenon are in that cultural perspective. It is tragic. They all need to lighten the fuck up.

That just means they're doing an excellent job of controlling Covid.

Christianity never really caught on in Japan, so they simply don't have that Christian framing of suicide as a crime against God. Remember that the most famous passage in English language theater is a guy saying "Man I'd love to kill myself right now, but then I'd go to Hell so I'd better not."

Survival of the fittest Japanese.

In Japanese culture, the sacrifice of self for the sake and the benefit of the larger community is still held as a core belief in their society, isn't it? This mind set has its origins in the attempted Mongol conquest of Japan back in the 12th century, where everyone pulled together to defend the country. The loss of self likely wears one down over time, hence the large amount of suicides.

Being obsessed with Japanese culture is a thing with straight guys my age (late 30s). I've never been into gaming or comics which is what those guys seem to have in common so it's lost on me. There's a lot of weird things about the culture to me that I can't see it being 'better' than any other culture, just different.

r3 I think the high rates may be do to the women and girls in those countries who fall into deep despair because their lives are not valued at all. Asian culture this far older than our and for all the centuries women have been shit on. I know that in China young girls out in the farming areas were killing themselves in high numbers. They also abort or kill girl babies in China and try for boys because boys are seen as a blessing on the family. I'm just surprised that you don't find as many suicides among women in Middle Eastern countries who are even more brutal toward women than Asians countries are.

They don’t have the religious stigma of suicide. In fact, it’s considered the right thing to do if you have committed shameful and disgraceful acts.

They don’t have the religious stigma of suicide. In fact, it’s considered the right thing to do if you have committed shameful and disgraceful acts.

Sometimes people are in such pain, suicide is the only way they think they can make it stop. Often they hate themselves so much they think their families couldn't really love them anyway and will be better off without them.

Sometimes suicide is a rational act, such as when someone has a terminal illness and wants to avoid the pain or the indignity of what lies ahead, or they have no insurance or they don't want to bankrupt their family with a couple of years of expensive treatment before they die anyway.

Many people will disagree, but I also think it can be a rational choice for someone like, say, a parent who leaves a baby in the back seat of a car and it dies. I literally couldn't live with myself if I did that. I don't think I could function or hold a job or show my face to any other human again. I don't think life would be worth living if I had that knowledge in my consciousness every moment.

Or someone required to register as a sex offender for life? I'd rather be dead.

Could have been Covid dementia!

R48 The sex offender comment is interesting because I have a relative who is a prison guard. I asked him once why pedos and rapists don't kill themselves more often considering the crimes they committed and that they are target #1 for other prisoners. He said those people never admit guilt, never accept that they did anything wrong, blame the victim until the bitter end and basically have no conscience. He also said most of them get family visits and family members back them even if the victim was their own child, niece, nephew etc..I assume registered sex offenders are the same and if you met them they consider themselves victims of some bitch or some child who was told to make up lies. I don't think too many of them feel any shame because you have to know you did wrong and feel sorry for it to feel shame or consider killing yourself.

I’ve lost more people to suicide than to anything else, and it’s getting worse. Someone I know just died last week from it. I wonder what the statistics are like in the USA. I feel as if we ignore it because it’s against the American can-do spirit or something. You hear about Covid non stop, yet it’s ODs and suicides that are affecting my community the most, especially since people are facing unemployment and isolation.

I think suicide rates in Japan are generally high and the Covid death rate has been low—so the title of the article seems less shocking than the reality is

It might be COVID related. I wonder if it’s considered shameful to catch it, in Japan?

Here are the reasons:

-- Pressure to conform

-- No mental health care

-- No strong cultural/religious proscriptions against suicide

-- Feelings of helpless in the face of the ever-present threat of Godzilla attacks

Very cruel race

There's also the practice of seppuku or harakiri:

[quote] As a samurai practice, seppuku was used voluntarily by samurai to die with honor rather than fall into the hands of their enemies (and likely be tortured), as a form of capital punishment for samurai who had committed serious offenses, or performed because they had brought shame to themselves. The ceremonial disembowelment ... consists of plunging a short blade, traditionally a tantō, into the belly and drawing the blade from left to right, slicing the belly open[.]

Some info about Japan

Population = 126.5 million people

Covid - 147,498 cases - 2,042 deaths

America

Population 328 million

Covid 13,291,126 cases - 266,357 deaths

America really fucked up

Japan was supposed to have hosted the 2020 Summer Olympics, so that was a huge blow that it was cancelled.

I lived in Japan for a while and people wore masks when they were sick (to prevent spreading infection). So, wearing masks is not a huge change for them.

Also, people in Japan are very cooperative when the government has made a decision. Sounds silly, but just the way they do their trash is very organized: burnables (true trash), milk cartons, metal, etc., all separated.

I would imagine the Japanese are much more likely to confirm and therefore easier to control. Countries like USA, UK, Spain etc.. do not have populations who will docilly follow guidelines and consider the collective above the individual.

Meanwhile, in the US, 20 TIMES more people have died of COVID than of homicide in 2020, yet there are millions of people with closets full of guns (to “protect themselves”) who refuse to believe COVID is a threat.

I'm still amazed the current empress never committed suicide, given how badly she was treated for decades by the Imperial Household Agency and the empress emerita.

R50, interesting comment. That is what I've seen as well. Abusers don't have remorse and families typically rally around the abuser and jettison the abused. Trauma and abuse create such psychic pain that anyone who hasn't suffered from it has no idea. On the other hand, I had a brother who committed suicide to spare his family the expense and burden of his m.s. and that was a decision I respect but wish he hadn't felt he had to make. If you read The Savage God it lays out many facts about suicide and also makes it seem like a very bad decision without ever condemning people for it.

I lived in Japan for two years and loved it, but some of the commentors are correct to say it is a rigid and difficult society to navigate. Of course, twenty five years have passed and some things may have changed. But do you know of other countries where teenagers commit suicide because they didn't pass final exams?

"So we all know why we came here tonight. A million of us. We came here...to off ourselves.”

Maybe they kill themselves when they don’t learn to live you long time

^live = love

"One authentic early American hari-kari knife. Pass it around, boys! Maybe somebody's got a use for it!"

As someone who has contemplated suicide, I will tell you my reasons.

I'm a single, obese lesbian over 50. I haven't had a partner in 7 years and even though I've been in long term relationships in the past, I believe the failure of those relationships indicate that there is something wrong with me. I've had friends tell me this isn't true, that the issue was the women I've been with haven't been able to return love and part of me thinks that maybe that's true, but I also think I just wasn't worth fighting for.

I have an abusive family history, including rejection from parents for being gay and an alcoholic step father who told me over and over that I was stupid and useless when I was a teenager. I moved out on my own at 18 and my life has been a struggle ever since. Financially, I was a mess for a long while after going to college on loans. My peers own houses, I've live in a tiny rented house for 20 years while attempting to pay off all my debt. I finally paid it off this year. I've never traveled. I hate my job but it pays and I can do it from home. I just feel like there is no point anymore to any of this. I'm isolated more than any of my friends who all have partners. I have become lazy and all I want to do is sleep. I'm on two antidepressants and they kind of help and I've been in therapy for a good 15 years. I just feel like life is a struggle and this year it's been much more so.

I don't see a point as I have no love, no life, no pets anymore (they both died and it devastated me), and my friends are sick of me. It's ok. I'm sick of me, too. As I grow older, it is getting worse. Everyone tells me to have the gastric bypass surgery, but I don't want to do it. I've lost and gained 100's of pounds over the years. Food is one of the pleasurable things in my life, but it's killing me. So what else is there? I'm too cowardly to off myself, but I consider it almost daily. I thought this was normal, that everyone considers it daily, but I guess not.

R67, honestly, you seem, well, a bit much

R67, are you turning Japanese?

Thanks, r68. I am a bit much.

[quote] I just wasn't worth fighting for.... [M]y friends are sick of me.... Everyone tells me to have the gastric bypass surgery, but I don't want to do it.

R67, tough love here. You are seeking validation & seeking a reason to live outside of yourself. You do sound like a lot of drama. Why do people need to "fight" for you / your love? People want peace, comfort, and friendship outside of their work lives. Love and friendship shouldn't also feel like a job.

Before getting gastric bypass surgery, you have to through therapy to identify the cause of overeating. That is what you need and your friends see that. Act now before you ruin your health with obesity-related illnesses (bad joints, heart disease, etc.).

"Act now before you ruin your health with obesity-related illnesses (bad joints, heart disease, etc.)."

It's cute you think I give a fuck about my health. Obviously if I did, I wouldn't be obese. But the good news is, my recent blood work indicates I'm very healthy despite my weight. So there's that.

And yep, no one needs to fight for me except me. But I'm done fighting for me.

r67, why not go on an adventure of discovery?

Pardon the pop psycho-babble but I mean find out who you really are underneath the walls you've erected. From your post, it sounds like they were a necessary self-defense because of what your family life was like. Why not deconstruct them?

Now, with the time you have left, experience a new physical, emotional and mental journey.

Thanks, r73. Good advice. I was planning a trip abroad for this year for the first time ever and then Covid.

I think I just need something to look forward to. I wasn't looking for sympathy, just trying to shed some light as to the way depression can effect someone. Believe me, I know I'm difficult.

I am sending Internet love to the lonely lesbian. Please keep in touch, I hope you get your trip next year.

R67 I hope you don’t mind, but I feel moved to say this. You & I share some things in common – sapphism, homophobic dysfunctional family, unsatisfying career, difficulty maintaining social bonds, etc. I have been battling my own self for what feels like my entire short life, culminating in years of depression, emotional instability, and total hermitage…until recently when someone in my life gave me something to think about: “take what’s yours, leave what’s not.” Disregard if it’s presumption, but it sounds to me like you’re doing what I once did, before I heard that; punishing yourself and isolating yourself for not living up to expectations that aren’t for you, anyway.

See, people like us? We’re mutants. Anomalies. Chaos agents. In an ordered, productive, heterocentric society, folks like us are not meant to exist. So our trajectories are not mapped, and we live in uncharted territory on the societal map of the world (arrr, Here Be Dragons). And that makes us special, makes us marked for some different purpose than whatever the Mad Men want to sell. We are here to wake people up, and show the planet that they don’t have to conform. Think of the breeders you know. Are they happy, really? Can they truly bear the pressures they live with forever? Would they choose their fate if they got to pick again? Aunt Ida was right, and don’t ever forget that. I’m confident freaks like us are meant for something else, having a purpose or responsibility beyond the understanding of the straight topside world.

Consider it. You rent - but you don't have a mortgage or the stress of upkeep. You're single - but you don't have fuckup kids or an abusive ex-spouse or a demanding girlfriend who bleeds you dry of time and money. You're alone and estranged - you don't have to worry about elder care. You're obese - you're liberated from the constraints of female beauty culture (horribly sexist and ageist as it is) and from the fanaticism of health-gurus. You also paid off your own debt, put yourself through College, and survived being kicked out all by yourself - that makes you a success and a resilient bitch. Give yourself a break, and some damn credit.

You say you don’t give a fuck about your health, and you don’t give a fuck about yourself or anyone else. Cool, that makes you free to do things the majority of people can’t or won’t do. Why not go out in a blaze of glory (I’d say blaze of cocks, but you know, lesbians) and do something to leave a bootprint on the saloon door before you walk out?

You also say you don't want pity. Good, cuz I don't feel that sorry for you. There are numerous fat lonely misanthropes who still became famous or successful and turned their lives into something, so that's not really a barrier or anything. I believe in you as you are. Like R73 says - you have a unique opportunity here to step off the vector, shift paradigm, a move not everyone gets the chance or the guts or the window to do (you have to hit rock bottom to win that prize).

My Japanese friend said Japan has a shame based society.

In the 1990s, the government had a program to encourage married men to address their wives by their first names, rather than, “hey you”. Another friend who had lived there said that it would have to be handed down from on-high to get compliance.

[quote]I have no sympathy for those who commit suicide. Not only is it cowardly, but it is quite possibly the most selfish thing a person can do. People who kill themselves set off a bomb in their wake that destroys the lives of everyone who ever cared about them.

Fuck this bullshit. You know what's selfish? Expecting and demanding that someone else continues living their miserable, painful life just so YOU don't experience sadness or discomfort. You put your own happiness ahead of someone else's pain. No one else is living their life for you, no one owes you their continued presence on this planet.

R77 heavy. I wonder what it would take to mobilise Japanese women to rise up against men?

Seems on brand

[quote]In Japan, more people died from suicide last month than from COVID in all of 2020

Oh, dear.

Last month WAS in 2020. Logic, as well as English, seems not to be your friend.

r76, thank you. You are right. Often I hold myself to the standards of others, but not having the responsibilities you listed are really a gift. I'm so glad I never had kids and never married any of the women I was involved with. I'm often told I have too high of standards, but I notice the people telling me that have all settled for less than what they wanted.

I'm so sorry, r32. I really would've expected better from Ireland.

It may be hard to believe, but Texas does okay in this regard. I needed mental health treatment when I was broke (because I couldn't work, because I was in bad health overall, which does not fucking help with depression). I was able to get into a good hospital quickly, and, on discharge, saw a psychiatrist through the county healthcare system. I later switched the the state-sponsored mental health provider, f/k/a MHMRA, now called the Harris Center. And I saw good doctors in both systems, as frequently as they thought appropriate.

Madame Butterfly wasn’t messin’ around.

R83 Ireland had one of the worst mental health records and fewest services in Europe. The healthcare system is a mess. We’re lovely people, the society and culture has changed so much for the better in the last 20 years but Americans give us too much credit sometimes. Lol

R76 That’s an epic post. I hope that lady listens and can take something from it but heck I took something from it. We all need a good kick up the butt and someone who will give us the kind of perspective you’ve laid out in that post.