Elton John genius or not?

Hilarious example of the same...Richard E. Grant gives Elton his new oven instructions, and Elton makes it work! I think this is actually an example of genius, while also being amusing!

Ask Rush Limbaugh

He doesn't write his own music. If he were a genius he'd at least be able to do that.

That clip is extraordinary, but his voice is awful in older age, so that ruins it.

Elton John got lucky. If he hadn't been born when he was and hadn't become a star when he did, he would never have been famous. If he had been born in the 90's like today's stars were he'd be working at a Marshall's, but he was lucky enough to be born in a time where you could be an ugly nobody with a mediocre voice who doesn't write his own songs, is difficult to work with, and has no other talents besides singing and still become a superstar. He should thank his lucky stars every night that he lived the life he did, because even with its ups and downs it was still more than he ever deserved.

He had a good singing voice when he was young.

R3, he composes it. The lyrics are the worst parts of Elton John songs. Without his medleys and unique singing and phrasing, the songs would be terrible. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a good cover of an Elton John song.

R6 He had a good voice, not a remarkable one, and yet he achieved the stardom of someone with a remarkable voice. It's insane.

He's a genius. He writes beautiful melodies backed by beautiful piano arrangements. I love Rocketman, Someone Saved my Life Tonight, and Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.

Rocketman was the only biographical jukebox musical about an artist's life I think I've ever liked. Whoever was responsible for the music and how it was used and redone for a more dramatic setting is the real genius. The film's usage of Goodbye Yellow Brick Road was amazing and the only part of the film that actually invoked the emotion it was trying to out of me.

Why haven't they turned Rocketman into a broadway musical yet? It can replace that Jagged Little Pill abortion.

As a composer I think he is a genius, and look how easily it comes to him in those clips. He can put a melody to anything. I think = genius.

Rocketman musical is for sure coming.

If Elton John were born in 1770, he would be Mozart.

Thanks. Another reminder how music today's has gone to shit. Nothing is replacing the greats.

It’s funny when People say Elton would be nothing without Bernie. That may be true but Bernie would have been nothing without Elton.

The highlight of Bernie’s non Elton career is co writing “We Built This City” which is commonly considered try e worst song of all time.

Agreed, r10. Rocketman was one of the best films that I have seen in my life. It was beautifully done.

There are certain things I am really good at for work. Some people think it's amazing, others don't care. I know I have gifts in these areas, but it took me a long time to think of them as "gifts" but I think they are? In a weird way? I don't know...just because you don't paint masterpieces like Rembrandt at 10, does it mean you cannot have genius?

R7 Hwre you go!

Definitely not. Cunty Uncle Tom with talent: yes.

Elton is a self loathing cunt. I want to know what the story was with David Furnish, baby oil, and the censored from England scandal?

Elton’s voice doesn’t sound great today but he still sounded fresh and crisp for decades. In 2004 he sounded great but two years later he was sounding pretty rough and has never recovered his voice.

No, all his songs sound the same. The only way I know they’re different are the words.Elton is talented but nothing special. His voice is passable and works. His voice works because it connects with the lyrics which most bigger voiced singers can’t do. It’s why I’m never impressed with how loud or how many octaves a singer has. Most of the truly great singers aren’t technically the best by far.

He’s still overrated by a lot.

R22, That’s the case for most groups. I was always annoyed by Fleeteood Mac because all of their songs sound the same but I love them now.

I don’t think Elton Johns songs sound the same. He has record in a variety of genres.

Yes, Elton is a genius and a very ambitious man. By being gay himself and coming out he has given gays a very high profile. He co-wrote many of his songs and has a lot of gold records -obviously a lot of people love him and his songs. He has managed to survive in the music industry and have great longevity which does not happen very often - 50 years ago he had his first hit single and he is still prominent today. Impressive to put it mildly.

R23 They do sound the same but they work. He’s talented but nothing extraordinary. Most of the most successful aren’t. The truly best singers, actors, whatever aren’t the most successful due to lack of star quality, lack of connecting with material, lack of many things. It takes the whole package to really be the most successful.

R18 Kaaate Bushhh!! Rocket Maaaaan!! But what would she be singing without the melody? That's all Elton!

He’s ehhh. He would be nothing without Taupin. Truth. He’s learned generic melodies to compensate.

And now a photo of him. Have always loved his over the top attire and appearance.

Agree with R24. Sir Elton is a genius, but his coming out was momentous, incredibly brave and made a difference.

Don't Let the Sun...I mean, Gay Anthem? Certainly could have been for me at a certain point. Duet with George Michael. One of my favourites.

Love this song and video. One of the first I ever saw on MTV

No genius and has sold out time and time again. He also tries to cling to younger artists to stay relevant with no repercussions. He’s also an awful person. He tries to hide it like a true sociopath.

R32 = Madonna

Ugly inside and out. It’s all about him. Repellent human. Tantrums and Tiaras ? That’s ok? Yet others get dragged for far worse. He’s a mean, nasty man.

One of the first albums I ever bought was Empty Sky. I was 14 and looking for music that my friends didn't know, by the artists we all knew. It changed my life. The harpsichord was something no one was doing at the time, and also the John Lennon backup gave me some cache with my friends who thought Elton was not cool. If John Lennon did backup for him, he MUST be cool!

He’s great at creating the same sound for 4 decades. Ok voice. Can’t write lyrics. Has acted horribly yet it’s tolerated because he does some, conveniently, high profile charity work.

Sociopath. I agree.

R31 That video of I'm Still Standing is a real time capsule of mid-1980s, and I am so glad we have it in the archive!

the best thing he ever did was his second album, just called Elton John in 1970 - absolutely beautiful and yes, genius. He was also lucky to find superb producers. It all came together so well. Flopped in England. He went to America and they made him an "overnight" star. I guess everyone knows this from that ghastly movie that I gave up on after ten minutes.

I think he ran out of steam in about 1976 and just surfed along on his past successes.

[quote]Ugly inside and out. It’s all about him. Repellent human. Tantrums and Tiaras ? That’s ok? Yet others get dragged for far worse. He’s a mean, nasty man.

I think he's bad tempered. But not mean. He put his money where his mouth is when it came to AIDS. And he's known to be extremely generous. He's addicted to fame and famous people.

This is one of my favorite early Elton live performances. Your Song is very difficult to sing and not sound like a totally asshole., BTW. If you don't believe me, try it at karaokee sometime...

R39 He gets a free pass too often. He’s not a great, good person. He’s complicated. He gets a pass for many reasons which is sad.

Elton has taken a fair share of criticism for being a diva especially in England. He doesn’t get away with it by any means. It’s the opposite of Mariah and Madonna where their fans take pride in their terrible behavior.

He recorded this for the BBC in 1970 when the Elton John album came out - it's a bit rough around the edges. One of his best songs.

R42 are you fucking serious? both Mariah and Madonna get tons more shit than the sociopath Elton and his terrible behavior.

R44, If Elton were exposing his tiddys on stage like Madonna at 65, he’d get shit for it too.

Elton is meh. He’s ok. Nothing too special. Seems very milquetoast.

Another example of genius. Tiny Dancer. Elton and piano. He makes it sound like an orchestra, but there is no backup band. My mother would have fainted to hear anything close to this coming out of our piano while I practiced and she was making supper...

R45 he’s a man you fucking nut. Of course he wouldn’t get shit for exposing his “tits”. Google his bare ass pic front a few years ago if you dare,

Funny hearing these songs. Reminds me of my parents' cars and 8 tracks.

R37 Me too! I love Elton paying the hot bellboy with glitter!

R48, Oh you’re one of the one of those “Madonna is a victim of sexism” lunatics.

I don't get the vitriol...maybe it's the good ol' DL anti-successful gay thing.

R52 It s an anti ugly effeminate homo thing.

Elton John has the respect of the general public at large. Madonna has the respect of queens on Tina.

Nothing "genius" (time to declare a moratorium on the word--forever) about it at all. Predictably plodding pop pablum.

I guess some of you aren’t gonna put on your Sassons...

His albums from 1970 through 1973 have many great songs on them and were big sellers, he got enormous radio airplay, and he sold a LOT of concert tickets in the 1970s. Ever since then he's been coasting on all that, in my opinion.

R43 thank you! I forgot about this gem. Brought a tear to my eye.

I used to get Elton and Bernie mixed up because they looked exactly the same in the early 70's before Elton started with the glam. I was like, who is the singer?? Anyhow, this is a great early one - Empty Sky. Scrub to 45 sec to skip preamble.

Compare it to this GHASTLY 2004 performance of the same song, R58. Dear God his voice was so shot and he doesn't seem to know it.

His tribute to John Lennon, Empty Garden, is very moving. Brings tears to my eyes. Simple, sweet lyrics.

This is the only good song off his very first album and it's very nice.

In the early 1970s Elton and Bernie looked practically identical, as shown here in this Empty Sky "video" of contemporary pics mixed with the original music . Turn your speakers up for this. It is a real gem! Scrub to 46 sec to get right into it...

I think you all mean Elton doesn't write his own lyrics. He most definitely composes his own songs.

the gray boxes are a drag on a musical thread.

Talented, but certainly not a genius. He knows how to play the piano and can sing. Big deal. So can lots of other people.

[quote] So can lots of other people.

Not these days, they can't.

R60 I think the performance is marvelous. Sorry! Disagree about the mature Elton voice.

OMG! R68 - OK.

R61 Empty Garden is an amazing song and tribute to John Lennon. This is my favourite live version of it. I hope you enjoy!

R67 Bullshit. Don’t confuse mainstream artists with artists that live in the real world and actually have talent.

He sounds great here.

Is this pig still performing for other pigs like Rush Limbaugh and Aaron Shithead Schock?

yes.

I mudst6 agree the EJ Sinderfooler is a gen9us

Calm Down White Boy

You should go to the airport and wait for Daniel

R72 so lovely. I just posted this in the MM thread. Beautiful.

Would have loved to have been at the concert at Ephesus to hear the acoustics. I have been to Ephesus, but as a regular tourist, even then, we tested the acoustics in the amphitheatre and they were amazing!

When Princess Diana died, the first thing I said to my husband was Elton John is going to sing "Candle in the Wind" at the funeral.

I absolutely adored him from childhood (saw him on The Muppet Show) until a teen, when I noticed in all the articles and interviews I was reading that he was saying really shitty things about others for no reason. I saw him on the Sleeping With the Past tour and he was bored stiff, did not want to be there.

Then in college a friend of mine went to an Ivy and one weeknight at midnight calls me to tell me all about a girl who had just transferred there from UCLA, her rich parents wanted her out of LA because her attempt at sobriety didn't take, they blamed it on "celebrity AA." I'm half awake wondering why he's telling me this and he said, "You know who her AA partner was? Elton John!"

He was super excited about it but I was really taken aback, it turned out Elton was giving her either old phone numbers or fake phone numbers and he was impossible to get hold of when she needed him, and he was super petulant about it, and her parents decided that was a sign that LA wasn't good for her so they pulled strings to get her transferred out of LA to another school.

Since then it's just been one thing after another both personally and politically, from the beard (I'd foolishly thought he really WAS bi, not gay, god I was stupid when I was a kid) to the bitchiness to the more recent stuff with Limbaugh and saying gays shouldn't want marriage when they already have civil unions.

Musically he's amazing, or at least was; I don't know why someone earlier said he doesn't write his own music, because he at least used to, with studio musicians filling in at times on things like bass that he didn't play, which was how it was done back in the 1970s. Probably still is today. As a human being, he's a pure asshole.

[quote]Dear God his voice was so shot and he doesn't seem to know it.

He knows, he's been having trouble with his voice since the late 1980s, I think. He's had multiple surgeries.

R62 Skyline Pigeon is one of my favorite songs. Thank you for reminding me. Empty Sky was one of the first albums I ever bought when I was about 14.

Yes, of course Elton's a genius. He's a musical genius anyway, can't vouch for anything else.

Empty Sky > Western Ford Gateway you can really hear the John Lennon > Beatles sign of the times sound here. Elton took the sound further into Country > Blues territory in Madman Across the Water, altho not on the songs that made it to the radio...

He’s not even close to a genius. He’s a mildly talented assjole. A real, true, sociopathic cunt. There is no one worse a human than this thing. He’s proven it over and over. He’s sure ready to give approval to homophobia for his career. He’s a horrible human.

Why is Madonna brought up? He’s slagged plenty of musicians who have not kissed his ass. He is always tearing billy Joel a new one. Boy George said he’s just an insecure baby. So true.

John Lennon and Paul McCartney

Gerry Goffin and Carole King

Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil

Mick Jagger and Keith Richards

Burt Bacharach and Hal David

Felice and Boudleoux Bryant

Jeff Barry and Ellie Greenwich

Nicholas Ashford and Valerie Simpson

Elton John and Bernie Taupin

One composes the melody, the other is the lyricist, producing something like a jillion pop music classics between them.

And the problem with teamwork is . . . ?

R86 you’re old

^^^ Oh. So you ARE able to read and comprehend my DataLounge handle. Good for you.

He's frequently atrocious and I suspect usually unpleasant. He is more than a little big on himself. He seems like a man who doesn't understand what it is to be nice to others. (He tries sometimes to help new talent but it always ends and quickly in some huge lifelong grudge against his proteges.) The costumes, giant sparkly eyeglasses, the bad wigs (though the one at OPs link is surely one of his few best?)

For all that and for some wretched songs, he is one of a few artists I can count on one hand whose work holds up across decades, whose songs heard many hundreds of time can still sound fresh as if hearing them for a first time, whose sad-pretty songs stand out then and still.

[quote][R62] Skyline Pigeon is one of my favorite songs. Thank you for reminding me

If it's one of your favorite songs why did you need reminding?

Skyline Pigeon was one of those songs they tried to get people to record when Elton & Bernie were promoting themselves a song writers - here's a version, it flopped, but interesting to hear.

They even entered a song for Lulu to sing in the Eurovision Song Contest in 1969 - but it wasn't selected by the TV viewers

>>>

SOMEONE SAVED MY LIFE TONIGHT was written about his attempt to commit suicide and his coming out to a friend named John Baldry, a British blues musician. Either John Baldry or his partner was nicknamed "Sugar Bear ". I forget which.

No Bernie was the person who saved his life, I thought.

& it was Long John Baldry - I guess LJB was never famous in America. He was more or less openly gay very early on in the scheme of things.

He was a very popular character on the British pop scene in the '60s - but only one big hit.

Elton was in one of Long John's groups early on, as was Rod Stewart.

Maybe, but that's overshadowed by his cuntiness.

OMG who are the ignorant CUNTS in this thread who claim Elton John doesn't write his own music. The mind boggles.

R5 Wait, you think that pop stars of today are more talented than those of 1970s and that they writ their own music? Sarcasm or retardation?

[Quote] Elton John got lucky. If he hadn't been born when he was and hadn't become a star when he did, he would never have been famous. If he had been born in the 90's like today's stars were he'd be working at a Marshall's, but he was lucky enough to be born in a time where you could be an ugly nobody with a mediocre voice who doesn't write his own songs, is difficult to work with, and has no other talents besides singing and still become a superstar. He should thank his lucky stars every night that he lived the life he did, because even with its ups and downs it was still more than he ever deserved.

Bitch, shut the fuck up!

[Quote] OMG who are the ignorant CUNTS in this thread who claim Elton John doesn't write his own music. The mind boggles.

I think they're mixing up the fact that Elton doesn't write lyrics. They think he writes lyrics but not music.

One bitter nasty Elton hater has posted 15 times in this thread. Why keep up the hate for grouchy old Elton? Just ignore Elton. It's so easy. Sheesh!

R40 my closet-case cousin sang ‘Your Song’ to his Frau wife at their wedding, about five years ago. While a crowd of 200 Gen X hipsters solemnly nodded along and shed polite tears into their IPAS and organic champagne, I had to slope off to an alcove in the corner of the room to do that Veronica Sawyer cry-laugh thing so people didn’t realise I was losing my shit at the spectacle. It was the most second-hand embarrassment I’ve ever felt in my life, but it was also one of the funniest lame-DH moves in recorded history (and my cousin had only become a DH that day!).

This event also catalysed my vow to never to marry, or to do karaoke in public. I hate the phrase ‘teachable moment’, but there’s no better way to describe it.

R97 probably the same one who claim Madonna DOES!

R86 You forgot

Beyonce and 12 other people

R103 Madonna does write her own lyrics and writes the melodies. That is well known. See video below. It’s long but Patrick Leonard talks about her gift for lyrics and melody,

Elton is fantastic with melody. One of the best.

I love Rocketman. Vastly superior to Bohemian Rhapsody IMHO. The use of music was excellent.

I'm not looking at whether or not Elton's a genius at being a human being, everybody knows he's a huge cunt. Setting that fact aside, I'm thinking about his music.

As a musician, as a songwriter, he's a fucking genius. If the word "genius" is too much for you, then pick another one that means insanely brilliant. Lots of geniuses are also cunts, it's not mutually exclusive.

He may have been touched by genius once upon a time but I've seen "Biily Elliot - The Musical" more than once and I couldn't recount one melody from it if I tried.

I don't know about "genius" but I admire any artist who doesn't promote the idea that it's an agony to create. It's a way of engaging in the world, reacting to anything, and that's way more interesting and exciting to me than any inscrutable genius. He doesn't write his own lyrics, true. But then, I don't write melodies or lyrics, so I'm impressed.

He seems like such a miserable human being. There was a video of him on youtube in concert where he invites people on stage while he performs one of his old songs, and some old lady was clearly happy about being there and next to him that she touched his upper arm while he was playing. The woman had to have been around seventy.

Elton gets such a scowl on him and is seen screaming in the woman's face "Get your fucking hands off me!" At least he knew he came off as a complete asshole and apologized to the woman afterwards. But I don't understand people who have so much money and aren't happy. Not saying money buys happiness, but between Ellen and him, you would think it was the worst thing in the world.

R110, Source? I remember when he yelled at a drunk guy who was trying to pull his wig off but not what you're describing

Elton John is a fucking genius.

I got "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" when I was eleven years old, and still think it is incredible.

"Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy" is the Elton John/Bernie Taupin masterpiece. I'm stunned so many here don't agree as to his huge talents. I love his voice too!

Not a genius at all. Talented but limited. He’s lucky he has Bernie.

[Quote] a drunk guy who was trying to pull his wig off

One man's foreplay...

That video about Madonna writing Live To Tell was truly brilliant. I have new respect for her.

Elton John was indeed at pop music genius. His albums of the early 1970s are brilliant. Of course he coasted and did a lot of shlock afterward, but they all do. My God, look at Paul McCartney, but no matter, he will always be a legend and so will Elton John. "Your Song", "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road", "Tiny Dancer", "Someone Saved My Life Tonight" etc. good solid pop.

R94, this is R93. Thank you for the correction. You are accurate, his name was Long John Baldry and he was out in the late 1960/early 1970s.

Paul O'Grady spent the night with Long John Baldry in the 1970s. It's in O'Grady's memoirs.

"Not saying money buys happiness..."

Those who think money can't buy happiness don't know where to shop.

R119 = Sophia Petrillo

I read that Elton holds the record for having a top forty hit every year for 24 consecutive years..that's impressive.

Elton had the best opening and closing songs for his concerts. "Funeral For A Friend/Love Lies Bleeding" was the perfect opener and "Burn Down The Mission" was incredible as a closer.

It's ironic that Elton's last number one song in the US (Don't Go Breaking My Heart) was his first number one in his home England. He didn't get his first solo number one in the UK until the Eighties with "Sacrifice".

I think Elton is incredible. Anyone who can go from the lilting "Daniel" to the rocking "Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting" to the flamboyant "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" to the Philly-soul "Philadelphia Freedom" to the bombastic "Don't Let The Sun God Down On Me' has more range than any other artist I know.

It's quite amusing to read so many comments about his behavior, persona life, etc, while ignoring his decades of accomplishments. "He's an asshole and a jerk!" Yes, and a recovered drug/alcohol addict, but one who's also made more music than most other living musicians. Few, if any, of you cunts could play 'Chopsticks' on a piano, but at least you're good at being cunts.

Back to OP's question; is someone who can make up a song on the spot a 'genius?' Perhaps not, but quite creative. Broadway composer Marc Shaiman can make up songs on the spot. They all have a similar corny style, but is that 'genius?'

Or is David Bowie a 'genius' for having transformed himself through the decades, while Elton's style of songwriting diminished? Bowie rarely made up songs quickly, but relied on other musicians to help him. Is that less 'genius?'

"It's ironic that Elton's last number one song in the US (Don't Go Breaking My Heart) was his first number one in his home England."

Excuse you...???

"That's What Friends Are For" - Dionne and Friends - Number 1 in 1985

"Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me" with George Michael - Number 1 in 1991

"Candle in the Wind '97" - Number 1 in 1997

He is absolutely a genius. I think he’s underrated because he was so hugely popular and his best known songs kind of sound similar and lightweight.

Early Elton John cant be beat. He faded after Captain Fantastic and when he had a resurgence it was more pop oriented.