💔Serious Question - How do you deal with love ones who are Republicans and/or Conservative?

Have you tried asking them how they deal with you? The solution is probably the same on both sides.

You don't talk politics with them. "There are so many things I love about you, why talk about the one thing I don't?"

Yes. I cut them off. Not the kind of people I want in my life.

Some of the people that I love are people of color, not heterosexual, poor/working class, female, transgender or belong to some other socially marginalized group. Conservatives harm those people. They do profound damage to them and to me.

It is not acceptable to me to love someone conservative because their conservative values dehumanize and wreak havoc and misery on those other people that I love.

And incidentally, conservatives are an existential threat to the continued survival of the human species thanks to their enthusiastic environmental destruction.

So, yes, I reject conservatives completely from my personal life and have for decades. Zero regrets or reservations about that.

Find the things that you can connect with them on and agree not to bring up points of contention.

One thing I've found that works when political differences arise is to make my point without insulting their morals or empathy. I'll say my piece, emphasizing that I know they're good people who care about others and I love them, I know they aren't stupid, but I think ______.

If any of them get angry and take swipes at me, I just say "treat me with the same respect I've treated you."

If Democrats as a party did this they wouldn't be falling apart at the seams. Dems used to!

R4 Is a whackjob who lives in his head.

I have had to negotiate bunker mentality with several family members over Brexit and Scottish independence. The only way I have found to maintain civil relationships is to go grey rock on them. If they don’t get the reaction they want, they eventually give up. I still think differently, but I will not be drawn into screaming matches. It drives them crazy.

We argue. A lot.

Jesus, is it so fucking hard? Don't talk politics.

Do you insist that everyone in your life agree with your every opinion? If so you'll be friendless and alone.

R1 no I haven’t because I don’t talk politics with them, but they are very very vocal about their beliefs. And for the most part I just roll my eyes to myself and keep it cute but there are some topics and things they’ve said that really just cuts deep.

It depends on whether one is in their will or not.

R9, easy to say. But my just knowing that deep down inside, they approve of Trump & Co. and the things they have said and done serves to color my entire opinion of them. They are obviously not the people I thought I knew. They have become repugnant to me.

R12 Sounds like you have as much of an issue as they do.

R9 fuck off. I don’t talk politics with these people. In fact I really don’t talk politics with anyone. But these people do talk politics ALL THE TIME. Like I stated in r10, it usually doesn’t bother me but some things they’ve said really has cut deep. And I feel like they feel the way they do because they personally haven’t been affected, so there’s a bit of hypocrisy involved too.

But yeah, r9 fuck off forever.

There's a difference between people who are simply conservative and those who are Trump supporters and/or enthusiastic members of the current incarnation of the GOP. Those people are white supremacists. Sorry, but that's what they are. If you can reconcile yourselves to the fact that some of your loved ones are Nazis, then good for you, I guess?

People don’t have to think they same as me but damn I thought I was dealing with decent people, not socio, misogynist who lack a lot of self awareness and are borderline NPD. Like WTF?!? What really opened my eyes was Covid, that’s when true colors really started to show.

R15 they’re actually Libertarians BUT they did vote Trump.

R6

Pissed off that I said that some of the people that I love are transgender, I'm guessing?

And that I'd rather be friends with them over you? Sorry, sweety, I know rejection is hard.

It's sounding like you're fishing for an excuse to cut your family off, OP. I'm not going to tell you to do that, but it's your life.

I’m trying to find a way to not have to cut them off. I guess I’m heartbroken and completely disappointed in the people I love.

Cut them off.

For the posters who have cut off family members due to politics, would you have done the same had those people not been related to you?

Does being blood-related, decades of family history and seeing them at family functions color your judgement when you jettison them?

In other words, do you have a different set of standards for family as opposed to friends and acquaintances?

My Trump supporting relatives unfriended/blocked me from like the 2nd of November. Which is funny because they were the ones that were always "stalking" me on FB, I never paid any attention to their posts but the minute I would post anything in support of Biden, they were right there shouting "FAKE NEWS! FAKE NEWS!" I won't miss them.

I'm 54 years old. I don't have any time for people who are racist, homophobic, misogynist fascists. My family is from Michigan, from around the Northern suburbs. One of my nieces is engaged to be married to one of these idiots - and she now regularly just parrots his views, however incoherently. It's clear to me that though we were close for a very long time, I obviously had little impact on her life, in terms of demonstrating intelligence and critical thinking, and she has obviously made choices that completely exclude me from her life. Good for her. I won't be going to her super spreader, Trump supporting wedding.

R4 gets it.

Loved ones? I would reexamine my relationship with the word love. My mother is the only person I would find a way to accept, if I found out that she was an evil, hypocritical, piece of shit like every single Trump voter I've ever met.

r9 and others are so desperately needy that would rather be friends with a Nazi than be alone. It's not just an opinion, it's about a core values.

Fuck every single Trump voter straight to hell.

R14? It's affected.

My landlady is quite QAnon, and after a couple of months of hearing her spew BS, I finally told her to stop. She clutched her heart and acted very offended, but then ended up apologizing for using me as a captive audience. Life goes on.

[quote]Serious Question - How do you deal with love ones who are Republicans and/or Conservative?

Serious Answer - You stop loving them.

R22, I think the thing to understand is firstly, I wouldn't acquaint myself with people who hold such repugnant views. I'm surprised by people who say things like, "Just don't talk about politics!" The personal is political. I could see saying, "Just don't talk about how they prepare their turkey!" or something equally trivial. But politics? Politics is what they believe. It says so much about who they are and even more importantly what they think about everyone else. Would we consider it someone's right to support HItler's genocide of the Jews in 1930s/40s and sit down and talk to them about I'm a Celebrity....? Why would that be such a satisfying relationship that one would have to compromise their being and beliefs so completely - to what, share a potato salad with them on the 4th of July? Really?

I think maybe it was because I came of age during the AIDS crisis, I was 14 in 1981, that the impact of "politics" being life or death was imprinted on me at an early age, as well as the power of my own voice, and how despicable people could be. It was a VERY political age.

So I'm not interested in casual relationships with Republicans - because, believe me, they do talk about these things in private when they think there aren't "outsiders" around. I had a Republican cousin once describe another cousin to me as "she's not like us" (I've no idea why she thought I was an ally). I wouldn't have a friend that wasn't like-minded - why would I want to cause that kind of frustration for myself? What a waste of time that would be. I prefer people who see the humanity in everybody. (And I do see their humanity, in a kind of broken, fearful and underdeveloped way.)

In a lot of ways, it's an even stricter standard with family - immediate family members and in particular parents. Why? Because those are the relationship dynamics upon which all of your other relationships are based. So if you compromise and diminish yourself with your parents, guess what? You're going to compromise and diminish yourself in ALL of your relationships. You can't compartmentalise it, it will be a learned behaviour that you see yourself as less than, unworthy, trying to please others. Or their work will be so complete that you'll just shut down completely, like a steel trap, afraid to feel the pain of rejection so you'll opt to never feel anything. And probably drink a lot.

So yes, there can be different standards and they should get higher the closer the relation is.

OP- You "roll your eyes"? Are you 12? Get a fucking therapist to help you grow a spine and figure out why you surround yourself with, and need the approval of, Nazis. And, why you are unable to stand up for yourself or what you believe in. Grow Up.

One can no longer be republican, and be a decent person. Being related does not matter in this case. These people are racist and homophobic, no question about it. I no longer attend family reunions, and have no problem with that.

Their comments "cut deep" and you don't know what to do? You need a professional help. Seriously, you'll be a happier person because of it.

R4, you are a homophobe if you would side with trannies over gay Republicans.

If this were simply a matter of us disagreeing over the amount of parks and rest stops funded by my state taxes, sure I'd make things work. If this were a disagreement over the best places to travel or what foods are gross, sure. However, this is a huge, deep divide between people who are white supremacists (albeit many "in the closet") and those who are not. They are using "Christianity" as a cover for their racism. I do not accept that kind of hate in my life, I don't care if you are related to me or not.

[quote]In other words, do you have a different set of standards for family as opposed to friends and acquaintances?

I don't have "sets" of standards, I have strongly held values, and boundaries, and individual relationships with each person I know. So, no, I don't have a different standard for friends vs. family. Everyone is treated equally, and the same expectation of basic decency and empathy for other people is applied to all.

It's also worth pointing out that "cutting off" is usually a response to longstanding animosity and disagreement. I stuck it out with these folks through 8 years of them waving the flag for Bush while he slaughtered millions of Iraqis, and 8 years of them complaining about "King Obama" because, well, they never really had a reason why. This was far more generous than I was with any conservative or similar friends of those eras. So I guess in the end I do have a longer timeline of amnesty when it comes to family, but past a certain point you need to eliminate consistently negative and antagonistic people from your life, especially when there's nothing left to bind you to them but history where genuine affection and warmth ended long ago.

How many Syrians are dead because of Obama?

The friends I have would never have these views. If you do have such friends then I question why you ended up with them in the first place.

I have family members who hold these views along with ones who don't. I discuss politics with those whose views I share. If the others want to talk politics I don't respond and they let it go. These are people I have known my whole life and have been good to me. I think it's the height of idiocy and stupidity to cut them off because we disagree politically.

If your family were in the KKK, would you just "not talk about that aspect" while visiting? God, I hope not.

Oh please they're not the KKK. Stop being a jackass.

We all have our own lines,OP. Pick yours. I no longer associate in any way with family who supported Trump. It bugged me in the past that they were republicans, but being a Trump supporter was the line that made them no longer worth being in my life.

I agree cut them off? But all or essentially all of my colleagues are Trumpsters! So I do feel so very lonely at work!

Life is too short to put up with assholes.

[quote] ...and 8 years of them complaining about "King Obama" because, well, they never really had a reason why.[/quote]

R35? The reason was racism.

R39, have you checked their sheds for tiki torches...?

[quote] no I haven’t because I don’t talk politics with them

OP, talking to them about how they manage to put up with you and your problems is not about politics, it’s about you. It would be worthwhile to find out from your family why they haven’t cut you off yet and what is their coping strategy. You may find from that how to deal in reverse.

[quote] Oh please they're not the KKK.

You’re right, they’re worse because they use religious people of color as human shields to hide behind to justify their homophobia.

R37, I agree. I have a 2nd cousin whom given that she was one of the youngest of her generation, I remember very fondly as a child. In fact, my earliest conscious memories are of her and her sister. And for that reason alone, I tolerated her views during 2015/2016. I even remember her stating to me earlier, in like 2014, that she is a self-admitted racist (due to her husband's negative experience during a race riot in '68 or '69), and I could appreciate that at least she was owning it. We literally only saw each other at family reunions and only shared a wider family history. (Oddly enough, in her immediate family, she is surrounded by liberals.)

But like so many of these people, she became much worse and more challenging to tolerate during the Trump administration and recently I've decided never to have anything to do with her again - even if that means avoiding the family reunion until she dies. I want absolutely nothing to do with her and I am not alone in my feelings about this. I'm done with her.

So you can try, especially if you have your reasons. It does lead to disappointment though but you just have to see where it leads you.

R45 That's actually good advice.

I'm shaking my head at all the loons on this thread ranting about Nazis. You have no idea what fascism looks like.

Advising someone to cut themselves off socially from large portions of their support system is irresponsible, in my opinion.

Are you kooks planning on taking care of OP when he's sick? Lending him money if he needs it? Giving him material support of any kind? Families are more than love and tender feelings, they're your people.

Not saying that you would need any of that, OP.

Cut them off. This isn't a matter of "don't talk politics with my conservative friend". That's like trying to accommodate republicans who voted for Bush and then 9/11 happened and 2,977 lost their lives. They voted for a president who completely fucked up the safety of everyone in this country and over 260,000 are dead in this country as a result.

R49 You cut off people who voted for Bush?

Under Biden politics will be less invasive in people’s lives. Just skip politics as a topic. It won’t be that hard.

These same fucking republicans that voted Trump in in 2016, also aggressively tried to get him re-elected this year after hundreds of thousands are dead and we're in the midst of a viral pandemic with no end in sight, just so they could get a little tax break. Remember that. They know why you hate them, and they deserve every bit of your hatred towards them.

[quote]Advising someone to cut themselves off socially from large portions of their support system is irresponsible

As if these people would offer any kind of real support.

R51, it will get worse. They will focus the next four years trying to be disruptive in order to prohibit healing.

My partner follows people like Tomi Lohren on Facebook, I’m convinced because she’s pretty and well spoken. What she says is completely inane, but she says it well. He’s apolitical- we’re Canadian, and he probably can’t even name our premier. But his views, or I guess thoughts on issues like BLM, are subtly influenced by people like Tomi. Yes, it’s superficial, and yes I roll my eyes a lot, but I find it better to not engage too much. To his credit, he does ask me to explain things from a less conservative point of view, so he’s not obstinate. He just happens to listen to people who are morons, which at times makes him a moron. But I love him. We move on.

Yikes, r55. The lengths that people will go to just to not be alone.

He'd better be hung r55.

I try to empathize with them a little bit. Make their point for them without all the racism and hate and explain why I disagree. I watch both Fox and MSNBC among others, but those two are perfect examples of opinions masquerading as news. Only the news, not the night time BS. I have seen how they take a news item and bend it to their cause.

Most of my friends and relatives can engage in civil debate. As soon as it heats up, I put an end to it by refusing to participate.

R56 - he’s not that bad. He comes from small town mentality. I’ve been able to educate him.

What R56 said. Good grief.

[quote]Oh please they're not the KKK. Stop being a jackass.

Are you seriously defending Trump supporters this way? They're "not the KKK" so they get a pass to be and do every racist thing except be members of the KKK? They get a pass for putting kids in cages, calling Charlottesville Nazis "fine people" and telling the Proud boys to stand by, spreading Covid, kidnapping a governor, rigging the Supreme Court with a stolen seat, a rapist and a Handmaid, and on and on and on. Trump supporters support this garbage and they want their emperor-king installed for life; they're actively supporting an attempted coup right now.

These people deserve a pass because they're not wearing white hoods while doing the above?

Fuck off fascist.

Fortunately I only have a few random cousins who are Trumpists and they have always been stupid reactionary cretins. Never see them. I do have a couple of neighbors who love Trump and the Republicans. One of them is very nice to me and even helped out during a medical emergency. About a year ago he attempted to discuss politics and public health policy etc. and it was impossible. He lives in a bubble. He just doesn't get it.

So now when we happen to see one another we are pleasant and kind and we just do not discuss it. Saw him in the parking garage yesterday, and said, "Hey, how you doin? Haven't seen you in a while..." And he sighed very deeply and said, "oh....fine...I'm just depressed..." I said, "Yeah, this virus mess and all the quarantines, etc...it's frustrating..." And he said, "Oh, it's not that... it's just EVERYTHING..." I just nodded in sympathy, and I said, "Oh, I know how that must feel..." and went into the building.

I'm getting less and less conciliatory in my relationships. A long-time friend / former coworker (woman) has a husband who is absolutely distasteful in almost every way. I didn't ask, but I'm sure he voted for Trump.

Anyway, this turd / husband is 71 years old and actually got a kidney donation. Friend (wife) e-mailed me the "good news." My old self would have said: "So happy for you both!" This time, I said: "So happy for you!" I'm not even sure I'm happy for my friend, truth be told. Husband is a rude asshole.

Yes, there's a way to coexist. I'll just bring up America's endorsement of my preference Joe Biden again if they're stupid enough to mention anything pro-Republican.

I support cutting off or ‘gray rocking’ these racist pos morons.

Unless: You’re in the will

It’s a parent with dementia who had always been a good parent before.

I support cutting off or ‘gray rocking’ these racist pos morons.

Unless: You’re in the will

It’s a parent with dementia who had always been a good parent before.

First off it was Obama and Joe who started separated families in cages which they built so fuck off asshole. Second the first bombing of the WTC took place in '93 and it was said that had the bomb been better placed it would have brought down the tower it was under. So what did our brilliant Democratic government do all during those years? The president was getting blow jobs in the oval office and ignored the terrorists while they did their homework which changed our world forever.

Their incompetence also brought us the Berlin wall and the Vietnam war another trauma we have never recovered from.

I know this is beyond you but you can be a Democrat and still hold Democrats responsible for their crimes against the country.

t

R68 You sound like a delusional dumbfuck.

And you sound like you don't know a fucking thing about American history in the 20th Century.

“First off it was Obama and Joe who started separated families in cages which they built so fuck off asshole. “

No he didn’t separate families, you wanna-be fascist nitwit. Yes, his administration constructed the holding pens but that was in response to the sheer number of people crossing the border and the lack of proper facilities to deal with them humanely. They weren’t separated, detained indefinitely and then systematically abused. That was all done by that sack of orange shit you masturbate to - Donald Trump.

Anyone who supports or simply puts up with republicans is doing everyone else a disservice. They may not all be vile creatures themselves, but they vote for ones who are.

Trump Admin can’t find 666 kids parents and they were forcing hysterectomies. WTF

Trump Admin can’t find 666 kids parents and they were forcing hysterectomies. WTF

You will never regret removing Republicans from your life if you have the option. It's a relief not to walk on eggshells or pretend to agree to disagree. Republicans fall into two categories--greedy bastards and fundy dumbasses. Both voted for Trump.

'The Obama administration did not separate families as a matter of policy, as the Trump administration did as part of its “zero tolerance” border policy in 2018, but separations occurred on a case-by-case basis for parents being prosecuted on more serious charges than illegally crossing the border or in cases when an adult was suspected of not being a child’s parent, according to CNN.

Children were also placed in cages in some cases under the Obama administration, and Obama-era images of children in such structures have been mislabeled as occurring under the Trump administration on several occasions.'

I never discuss Politics or Religion. You mention either one and I suddenly have to pee, take a call and get another drink. I have friends from all economic levels, backgrounds and lifestyles. I wouldn't have the time to weed out those who don't always agree with me.

"I never discuss politics" = "I have tons of privilege and don't care about anything but my own comfort"

R77 Spoken like someone with a full and happy life, and a social circle outside of Datalounge.

r78 FUCK YOU You presumptuous asshole. I hope life continues to give you all you deserve.

I view them as brainwashed by Trump and their media. It’s sad to me. I state my views but if I can’t make any progress then agree to disagree. Trump has sown discord and promoted an “us vs them” mindset and I think losing relationships with family because of him is letting him win.

Miss OP, the first thing you should do is make sure that they are familiar with the correct use of the past passive participle.

[quote]I never discuss Politics or Religion.

If we're from completely polar opposites (read: Trumptards), I have zero interest in talking to friends/family about anything. Their shitty morals taint every other opinion they hold.

[quote]How do you deal with love ones who are Republicans and/or Conservative?

Arsenic.

R81, I wonder if your conservatives friends value you as much as you do them? To me they are the true winners. They get to be assholes with no accountability.

I am so sick of hearing about politics. I am not a republican but I am so tired of my friends that are so invested in politics, because they are miserable in their personal lives. They watch the news all day,and all they talk about is the headline on MSNBC and CNN. Not only do they tell you the headlines, they act them out. I am so sick of the anger, frustration and daily outrage. Politics is the outlet for their uphappiness. These folks will talk about politics any time any where no matter what the situation and now matter how inapporiate. I avoid these people now, they have become political crazies! They use politics as a vehicle for their own misery.

R86 Too true.

r86 Utter nonsense.

R85 is exactly right. Turning the other cheek and biting our tongues while these assholes spout their bullshit is why we are here. They have been able to indulge in their delusions long enough. No more free passes.

R86, how odd that your ire is directed towards those who watch CNN or MSNBC, rather than those who are addicted to Fox News. It seems to me that it's the latter group who endlessly repeat the (fake) stories Fox has fed them, and who are angry, bigoted, and hateful, in many cases. If you can’t see that, you’re saying far more about yourself than you realise.

R90 If you ever spoke to Republicans, you'd know they watch RSBN and OANN (who were just banned from YouTube today.) Trump has had public spats with Fox News for years and they've drifted more liberal in a bid to enlarge their audience.

That's what refusing to engage does to you, it puts blinders on you and gives you a smaller view of the world. You handicap yourself.

You don't have to tolerate abusive behavior in order to maintain relationships with people you disagree with politically, but you do have to be tolerant. Actually tolerant.

[quote] Trump has had public spats with Fox News for years and they've drifted more liberal in a bid to enlarge their audience.

You are completely full of shit. Fox hasn't "drifted" more liberal just because they are no longer supporting Trump's insanity as he gets kicked to the curb.

Your post reeks of arrogance and self-congratulation.

The same way you deal with people who like many things that you don't. You live and let live.

"I watch both Fox and MSNBC among others, but those two are perfect examples of opinions masquerading as news."

What cute both-siderism and a complete lie to boot.. I strongly disagree. MSNBC as a network makes a point to fact check the Hell out of their news delivery and only use trusted, respected and vetted journalists. Fox "News" is the exact opposite - full on propaganda 24/7. All opinions and "spins" and many outright omissions. They take days to report on events and Trump's actions because they need time to re-package everything in order to glorify their Führer and demonize progressives. Can't be more obvious. Yes, I watch both in order to know what venom they happen to be spewing at the moment.

R92 You straight up don't know. You aren't in a position to correct me.

Honestly R91, you’re not just full of dishonest shit, you stink of it. But just keep on claiming that RSBN and OANN are ahead of Fox’s viewing figures. The rest of us will just pretend you’re not ridiculous. Those two fringe organisations have only a fraction of Fix’s reach.

[quote]These folks will talk about politics any time any where no matter what the situation and now matter how inapporiate.

Find new friends so you can talk about which Golden Girls character you are or that new shitty Kylie album. 💅🏻

[quote] R9: Jesus, is it so fucking hard? Don't talk politics.

Yes, because the Trumpers keep bringing the subject up, literally all the time. And they yell. At the TV, at clouds, at me. They’re crazy. So it is hard.

I avoid those who are "out" abut being Trumpists, either IRL or on FB. (And it's always on Facebook)

For others, I adopt as sort of "don't ask/don't tell" policy-- so long as they don't put up political posts or bring up politics when I see them, I can pretend that whoever told me they were a Trumpist was mistaken

Opinions are a form of news analyses. As long as they're fact-based and built on sound logic, they're valuable in comprehending both the news and the world.

[quote]I can pretend that whoever told me they were a Trumpist was mistaken

Sooner or later you're gonna be lying in that graveyard past which you are currently tiptoeing.

I was hoping I could ignore their political comments until Trump went away, but, damn, they became rude, crude, and overtly racist. We weren’t raised that way, and I just don’t want to hear it.

[quote] but, damn, they became rude, crude, and overtly racist.

Like actually racist. or since their their views are not the same as yours they must be “racist”?

I have to remind my Deplorables that any conversation we have about politics, isn’t going to change anything. That sometimes works.

[quote] Like actually racist. or since their their views are not the same as yours they must be “racist”?

Really, just go fuck yourself.

[quote] R104: Like actually racist. or since their their views are not the same as yours they must be “racist”?

I mean screaming the racial slurs: “Nigger, Chink, Gook, pause, and Jap”. I think the pause was where “faggot” was supposed to go, but I don’t personally need to be insulted, to find the rest of this to be bizarre behavior, and yes, racist. No one I know talks like this.

They also don’t believe in White Privilege, but do they need to say so, every time I visit, unprompted, before I even have taken my coat off? And there’s more, of course, but I don’t care to write a book.

Is that satisfactory to you, R104? Is that racist enough, wise ass?

I went to my Aunt's house today. I pretend that I'm a republican. I told them all the insane rumors like governor brian kemp is scheming with Bernie Sanders and he helped ruin trump's chances for this election and that he was good friends with hugo chavez and bought all of Georgia's voting machines from Hugo

I blame Fox and Trump . They are effective at prompting racist feelings in their audience, without actually saying the racist thing out loud, just by implying it.

Deplorable: “you know what I can’t stand, it’s that PC crap”.

I once heard that from a family member. 9 times out of 10, all that “PC crap” means is “being polite”. But they can’t stand that at all. And usually, they can’t define what “that PC crap” even means.

My cut off point is when I hear them bringing up conspiracy theories. I prefer truth based communities instead of those based on wild fantasies and cult beliefs.

I think my very existence triggers my Deplorables, even when I’ve said nothing. If instead, they’re always screaming racial slurs and that’s normal for them, well then, I just give up.

[quote] Children were also placed in cages in some cases under the Obama administration, and Obama-era images of children in such structures have been mislabeled as occurring under the Trump administration on several occasions.'

This is fake news. There were no children in cages under Obama. Not one.

[quote] I mean screaming the racial slurs: “Nigger, Chink, Gook, pause, and Jap”. I think the pause was where “faggot” was supposed to go

You like sound like one of the people who write slurs all over their own car and reports it to the police and later it’s found to be a hoax created to get attention. You got the attention on this thread you wanted to create for yourself.

Apparently you, R114, have not yet had your fill of such attention.

What happens when they start talking probability and statistics?

Wrong link.

“ As we can see, four of the seven most anomalous vote updates — which is to say, updates in which the margin and ratio are co-extreme — are in election-critical states and occurred during the same five hour period where the circumstances on the ground were (and remain) contested and highly suspicious.

“It is worth noting here that roughly 15% of the vote updates in the data set of 8,954 were from these three states. If we assumed it equally likely that any particular state should end up at any of these extreme points, there would be about a 1% chance that these three occupy three out of the top four spots, about a 1.2% chance that these either occupy three of the top four spots or four of the top seven, and about a 0.00337% chance that these would occupy five of the top 10 spots. It is thus very surprising to see the states in question be so disproportionately represented in the top 0.11% of the distribution of co-extremity[17].”

R110 How many years did you spend thinking Trump would be removed from office because of his Russian collusion?

R114 is the kind of racist who thinks all hate crimes are fake.

Real news supports Democrats no matter what.

[quote]How many years did you spend thinking Trump would be removed from office because of his Russian collusion?

I hate Trump and I never believed this. MAGA much?

R121 Good for you! You're quite the outlier.

[quote][R15] they’re actually Libertarians BUT they did vote Trump.

Libertarians are just Republicans without the religious crazy. The GOP = Trump now. It's his party entirely. Therefore if you support Trump you support the GOP, and vice versa.

[quote]The same way you deal with people who like many things that you don't. You live and let live.

There is no 'live and let live' with white supremacists. It's not just another political viewpoint. It's an ideology that leads in only one direction for those who disagree or who don't possess the required attributes to 'belong'. Don't be simple.

So you are a MAGA.

Can you really associate with someone who uses the word “libs” endlessly?

This is part of why I am happy to not see extended family for the holidays this year. I won’t need to deal with any little *comments* about the election or Biden from my deplorable-leaning & firmly deplorable relatives

Meanwhile, on the other side, how much hand-wringing and soul-searching is going on? To what extent are Trump cultists fretting about how to handle their Biden-voting relatives?

I do what R9 says. Don't talk politics with them. It's no use getting into a discussion that will end in an argument with no one changing their minds.

Always liked the advise of the "Ann Landers of the Radio," aka Dr. Joy Browne, gave when dealing with unpleasant persons or situations: "Be stupid and cheerful."

R127 They aren't afraid of Biden supporters.

The kindest thing I can think of to say to a Trump cultist is:

"I hope you live long enough to realize how wrong you were."

One of my cousins lives in a southern state with her retired military husband. I assumed they were both Trump-voters and avoided talking about the election with them. Anyway, this cousin started a group text (day before election or so) and she and her husband actually voted for Biden and were nervous about unrest in her area if Trump lost. It turned out to be a fun couple of days of texting and I was relieved to find out that both she and her husband were not Trump voters.

My family lives in a red/rich area of Florida where they have a couple of businesses. They are democrats who register R because when they were D's they got harassments and bad reviews. They talk about blue neighbors like we used to talk about the gays. In lower voices, "Guess who else is one of us?"

Even still, A one star review from their store. "Had to wait 20 minutes and was then told to put on a mask. Must be democrats." Lots of others that aren't so obvious.

My sister's response: Sorry about the wait time, we were at capacity. I know 20 minutes can feel like 4 when you are waiting, but a review of the security footage shows you driving up at 1:12 and leaving the parking lot at 1:17. We are apolitical but are concerned for our friends and neighbors and YOU. Stay safe and come visit us another time.

One time I was visiting and I looked out the door and saw the neighbor coming. I said, "Here comes the neighbor" and I looked at the faces of my family and saw both fear and excitement. It turns out 1 neighbor is a retired surgeon who grows his own weed and the other is a Trumptard who distributes pictures of abortions. My niece said "Yes, the Dr. is in"

R132, my Dad had a business, and he forbid any yard signs on our property. He was an R and my Mom was a D. I never recall them ever talking about politics. Mom and Grandma did work at the polls. Probably D’s from FDR’s day.

Dad had a Monarch car. I once asked why he didn’t have a Cadillac or something nicer, and again, he said is was for business reasons (If we could actually afford a nicer car). But he said, he didn’t want to go to customer’s houses in a Cadillac or BMW, etc. I suppose humility is dead in the Trump era.

Oh, my deeply Blue friend moved to LA, then San Antonio. After living in Texas for 10 years, the though that something really needed to be done about immigration was on his mind. I don’t know if it’s because he saw many illegal immigrants first hand, or if it was because his neighbor’s opinions rubbed off on him. He might have even voted for Trump, though, he’s against him now. I think his neighbor’s opinions rubbed off on him. That happens.

I have said “our conversation isn’t going to change anything” to stop the conversation, but I hate being provoked by my Deplorable relatives.

[quote]Are you really cutting them off? Is there any way to co-exist?

OP, can you co-exist with pedophilia and crime ??

OP, can you co-exist with racism and homophobia ??

[bold]THEY HATE YOU OP.[/bold] They hate you because it's [bold]YOU[/bold] : (

Cut them off and don't look back.

I haven't completely cut them off, but I'd like to. My mom is a HUGE Trumper. Last time I went to her house before the pandemic, she had a bumper sticker on her kitchen wall (it was sitting above her coffee pot) that said, "Trump 2020. Making Liberals Cry Again." She campaigned for Trump. When Obama announced he had passed gay marriage, she posted on FB "Marriage is only between a man and a woman" not once, but THREE times. This knowing she has two gay daughters, one of whom is married to her partner. I unfriended her immediately. When I first came out to her about 30 years ago, she sent me letters saying how "selfish" I was for choosing to be gay...that god wanted me to make babies with a man, etc. I cut her off for about a year until she finally sent me a letter saying she didn't care that I was gay, that she would love the other parts of me. So that's where we are at, but I don't really "love" her anymore. She actually kicked all of my siblings out of the house when we were growing up and stayed married to an abusive, alcoholic man who made my life hell as a teenager. My brothers were 9 and 11 when she came home one day, told them to pick up their stuff and dropped them off on my dad's doorstep because he was calling child protective services on my abusive step dad.

My dad is no better. He tried to kill himself when I was 12 and then tried to kill my mom by coming to the house with a gun. She fought with him and a neighbor called the police. The police let him go because this was before domestic abuse was really a crime.

Both of my parents were staunch Republicans growing up. My sister and I are the only two people in the family who went to College and well, we are both very liberal. Thankfully, I am close to my sister so we have each other, but my brothers post conspiracy vid after conspiracy vid and truly believe the election was stolen from Trump.

So I keep them all at arms length. I talk to my dad maybe twice a year and haven't seen him in person for probably 8 years. He lives 40 miles away and I just do not give a flying fuck to see him. I speak to my mom a tad more but I stopped going to "family" holidays about 3 years ago when I decided I had to put myself first and going and being around a bunch of uneducated people who freely use the "N" word and who think I'm a commie because I'm educated and liberal just wasn't worth the stress anymore. I'm grateful to have a lot of close friends so that's usually how I spend my holidays now. Couldn't be happier that I'm alone today and just chilling.

Wait for them to come around. If they never do - then that’s THEIR loss.

From USA today.

'We rate this claim TRUE, based on our research. The initial claim correctly attributes migrant holding facilities to the Obama administration. However, the meme doesn't elaborate on the intended purpose of the facilities: to hold migrant children for 72 hours before releasing them to the Department of Health and Human Services for further placement.'

Cages or holding pens whatever you want to call them.

Republicans are going to have to cut Democrats out of their lives when SCOTUS throws out the votes for Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Georgia.

They will be unhinged, and won’t believe that the obvious voter fraud actually happen, despite the police. They will still believe that Russia interfered in 2016.

Disengaging from Democratic friends now will save you the pain of listening to them whine for the next six weeks.

They still won't shut up about George W. Bush.

Keep dreaming Trumper at R141.

R143

I’m not a Trump supporter.

I just recognize fraud when it’s blatant.

GA and PA cases are moving to SCOTUS this week.

[quote] R141: They will be unhinged, and won’t believe that the obvious voter fraud actually happen, despite the police.

Obvious voter fraud is not obvious

Sure.

What you are is a blatant liar R144. This applies to multiple points you made in this thread of course, but by by stating that you are "not a Trump supporter", you discredit everything else that you spew.

It’s only fraud when Republicans win.

Cut them out save for a phone call once a month.

They think Trump was robbed.

They're smart. Millionires too.

And I'm done. With ignorance. Trump is that awful.

That report is signed, "Editor, physicist John Droz, Jr."

Physicist? So this is the 9/11 Truthers version of "scientific" analysis of the data.

The first argument is that the counties with the largest populations had the largest voter increases.

DUH.

[quote]Cut them out save for a phone call once a month.

How exactly is that cutting them out?

[quote]Republicans are going to have to cut Democrats out of their lives when SCOTUS throws out the votes for Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Georgia.

I want to know more about this.

ignore them or avoid them

The fact is that some of the best people you'll ever know have vastly different views on certain subjeccts than you do, and some of the shittiest most worthless ones will have almost identical beliefs. So I try to keep the best people near me. I let them know when I don't agree with them but I try to be respectful of their right to think whatever they want to think, so long as they don't step over the line and become abusive. When that happens you have to drop them no matter who they are.

[quote]The fact is that some of the best people you'll ever know have vastly different views on certain subjeccts than you do, and some of the shittiest most worthless ones will have almost identical beliefs.

On planet Bizarro?

Yeah that's a weird take at R155.

The best people I know understand what's happening with our rigged political system that favors white racists in rural areas, aren't anti-science, aren't bigots, aren't pro-putting kids in cages, aren't worshipping out of control police. It's a pretty simple equation when your own values are clear.

Of course you can have friends across the aisle.

I’m still friendly with neighbors who voted for Trump (the first time).

Everyone makes mistakes.

love ones?

[quote]The fact is that some of the best people you'll ever know have vastly different views on certain subjeccts than you do, and some of the shittiest most worthless ones will have almost identical beliefs.

Being a Nazi/white supremacist/Trump-GOP supporter and enabler is not a 'different view' or simply another political stance on the spectrum. it's abhorrent. it's wrong. With Trump and the utterly corrupted GOP, we're not disagreeing about campaign finance reform or whether to cut Social Security. We're disagreeing about something much more fundamental, beyond mere politics. MANY people, including some on this thread, are unable to face this reality, and are practicing all kinds of cognitive dissonance in order not to have to make hard choices. It doesn't matter if these loved ones claim to only support parts of the GOP/Trump agenda. When they mark that ballot for Trump and his party, when they like that shit on social media. they're offering support for all of the things he represents. There's no cherry-picking. And real people have suffered, are suffering, and will suffer terribly because of it. Social ostracism is a mild reaction to such destructiveness.

Same is true for “loved ones.”

We’ll talk more superficially and certainly less often. I’ll change the subject if politics comes up.

Neighbor, or formerly close cousin, they know they’re being demoted.

R35 Didn't Biden support the war at the time and didn't Bush endorse him for 2020?

[quote]Oh, dear

She is busy finding your typos and auto-correct errors.

I'm friends with a Conservative couple who sends out an annual newsletter every Christmas. This year's edition mentioned "the China virus," "Trump vaccine," and a list of grievances against the Democratic governor of their state, who has implemented standard COVID precautions.

Yet, at the end of the day, this couple who knows I'm a gay Democrat, let me live with them rent free for a year. When I was young and dumb, the wife (a former boss), loaned me $1,000 to pay off some debts that would've affected my job. They regularly ask when I'm going to visit, and when I do, I might as well leave my wallet at home because the husband has a heart of gold.

It's tough. I got that newsletter and couldn't help but to roll my eyes. But I love them and know they love me (after an 18-year friendship the proof is undeniable). They were also pro-Bush and anti-Obama, but the Trump love is kind of cartoonish.

That's typical Republican R164, hate Liberals, Democrats, etcs EXCEPT when it's their own. In your case they see you as family so they treat you like gold. They live in a us vs them. I would bet they are not donating to the local gay community center for example but would help pay for your wedding. That's whats so fucked up about people who think like that.

OP - have you tried growing up and not being such a judgmental cunt. Let people be as they are. Try and be understanding. There are a lot of good hearted people that are Republicans. Just because you have bought into the war on them because of Trump, etc that all of them are racists and dim witted, doesn’t make it true. Grow the fuck up.

Jesus said love the sinner not the sin and love thy neighbor as thyself. I suggest explaining the facts of life in a quiet voice, while speaking in tongues and gently massaging their genitals.

I'll pray for you r166.

"have you tried growing up and not being such a judgmental cunt"

Because R166 doesn't sound judgmental AT ALL and so very mature as well... (eye roll)

"Just because you have bought into the war on them because of Trump, etc that all of them are racists and dim witted, doesn’t make it true. Grow the fuck up"

There is so much to say and I don't have the patience to bother, but I will point out the obvious - I only see one side who consistently behaves as if they are waging a war against fellow Americans here.

I'm coming at this from growing up in the Midwest with a conservative, basically fascist, dad, plus now not having any family because they all kicked off a long time ago, so I know my experience isn't universal.

That said, it just never paid to put up with people who cheerfully and repeatedly told you that they voted for someone who wanted me dead.

I was kicked out of the house before I graduated high school, and in one part of the fight that lead up to it, my parents called me a "hippie bastard" -- this was in 1990 -- and I never found out why. I didn't talk politics with them because they used racist slurs and, despite (or maybe because of) dad being a closeted mess, they would spit out violent threats against my art teacher and his wife who were allegedly in a lavender marriage. Sometimes they'd get mad at me for not engaging with them, and it started when I was 12 or so. Other relatives and family friends were the same way. They simply had to continuously and aggressively talk politics and put everyone through what seemed to be a loyalty test, which no one ever passed unless they were also aggressively far right. My lack of engaging with this is surely part of why I was kicked out of the house as a kid.

That's not to say I never spoke to relatives again, but it was always superficial, and it was always with the implicit understanding that these people would deliberately harm me if they felt like it.

My experience with coworkers and others I've known in the MIdwest since then is that even the polite ones, if they're far rightwingers, they feel the same way. It's amazing what people will say around you if they think you're a racist homophobe like they are.

There is no such thing as a good-hearted Republican. I'm sorry, there just isn't.

I cut most of them off after the 2016 election. I defriended them on social media. I stopped talking to co-workers and acquaintances about anything except how nice the weather is.

Life is relatively peaceful.

Freedom Fries

If you don't talk politics with your republican family members, then you find out they are deeply disturbed.

My Republican relatives haven't said a word about the election. I'm sure they'll lash out at some point after it becomes clear to them that Trump lost. They will be delusional til the bitter end.

Agree with R169. The far-right wingers are evil to the core, each and every one.

So there was time I thought I would be rejected because I was Gay by friends and family. This was nearly 30 years ago. Not one of my friends and family did , even though I knew it was hard for some of them. Why the fuck would I reject anyone based on their politics, who I loved? I might think WTF. But reject them, that is something you do when you are a child .

But then I am not American. Americans think so differently to other Westerners. The idea that who you voted for would define who I am is absurd. I think about who to vote for at Elections. It does not define me or my life.

r141's post did NOT age well.

I have been doing this for the last three years. Say the conversation come up about the election being a fraud.

I agree and begin to tell them that not only was it a fraud, but we also should have Russia send in an election observer group, not allow phones in the polling place as the 5G signals can control minds, and that Trump should be President for life. Then after he is installed for life after an election "correction", everyone should have papers that have their ancestry information and have that carried on them at all times.

They look at me a bit, then start to back away after I tell them I am not kidding in any way. I tell them if we are going full fascist, we need to do it correctly. No joke.

Shits them right up, especially after saying that if you are of an Anglo-Saxon heritage, you would be first in line for most things.

Just be nuttier, and sell it. Promise they won't talk about politics with you again.

R175

Unfortunately, the forced diversity agenda has destroyed any common language, and poisoned common ground.

If a candidate is in favor of bombing other countries, burning books, and locking up dissidents, soi disant “liberals” need to see if they have a (D) or (R) next to their name before they agree. Look at the opprobrium heaped on Tulsi Gabbard.

Anointing Biden will not work out well.

When 30% of the electorate believes he is illegitimate then governance becomes precarious if not impossible.

Decentralization and secession are the them for the next few years.

I cut them all off, friends and family alike.

I've been using the gray rock method for years with my family. They're awful, but I won't jeopardize my inheritance.

How do you deal with them Op you avoid them entirely.

I love them from afar if they a re family members. I have a couple of cousins like that. They've always been contrarian and stupid. I rarely ever see them and when I do, I discuss the weather. They are ridiculously stupid about everything. They watched the Real House Wives, the Kardashians, the Bachelorette for chrissakes!

But with other? I ghost them. Not in my life. Who needs that bullshit. They aren't even logical. They believe the lies and if they'd just apply simple common sense they can actually see what bullshit it is. But they refuse to. So fuck them.

The only member of my family to bother with Xmas cards this year was my Trumpista aunt, whose card I shredded yesterday.

Hope that helps.

Seventy-two percent of registered Republican voters still doubt President Obama’s citizenship, according to a recent NBC News|SurveyMonkey poll conducted in late June and early July of more than 1,700 registered voters. And this skepticism even exists among Republicans high in political knowledge.

Move on.

You hire a hitman to kill them all in the name of social justice.

[quote] They still won't shut up about George W. Bush.

Neither can so-called 'progressives' like Michelle and Joseph, R142. They're adamant that he's a "wonderful" man.

Let that one sink in.

OP, here’s hopefully a helpful tip: if you want to find ‘common ground’ and ‘break bread’ with Republican family members and friends, if you want to find a way to peacefully co-exist - the solution is actually very easy and involves a simple, famous 3-step program:

Step 1: Pick a developing country on a far-away continent, on the other side of the planet, preferrably Asia or North Africa and preferrably one with lots of fossil fuels.

Step 2: B0mb & blitz the living daylights out of it - TOGETHER. While chanting in unison: “Eenie, meenie, minie, moe, Catch the emperor by his toe. If he hollers make him say: 'I surrender to the USA’.”

Step 3: Pat each on the back (and smack each other on the bum) for making the charred, burning remains of that country a more "democratic, better, safer" place and proceed to suck each other’s cocks in celebration. “Team-building mission accomplished.”

Trust me, it’s almost always a big cross-party, bipartisan BONDING EXPERIENCE.

The proof’s in the pudding: Look at Biden and Bush Jr. Look at ‘em go! Rimming each other and giving each other celebratory geriatric blowjobs. The 3-step program works, without fail!

Excerpts from the transcript of Biden's speech at the 2018 Liberty Medal Ceremony in Philadelphia:

[quote] Uncle Joe: “The presentation of the Liberty Medal is a critical reminder that [bold]neither Republicans NOR Democrats hold a monopoly on the values and ideals that define us as a nation. So I'm PROUD to be here tonight - to HONOR George - PRESIDENT George W. Bush and the former First Lady Laura Bush, who CELEBRATE the values we share as Americans.[/bold] It’s no secret President Bush and I occassionaly had our political disagreements. I remember one time in the Oval Office, Mr. President, you looking at me and saying: “Damn, Biden, you spend more time in this office [with] me [than] anybody else, including the Republicans. [bold]But fact of the matter is - I’VE ALWAYS RESPECTED the President [Bush] […] President Bush was my “opposition” [when I was] Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, [but] he was never my enemy.[/bold] Think of how demeaning our politics has become in terms of how we talk about one another. [They’re] the opposition, not enemies.” […]

[quote] Uncle Joe (cont’d): “You know, where our priorities are ALIGNED, we work together … I said at the time and I’ll reiterate it today: HISTORY will record it as one of your GREATEST achievements, Mr. President [Bush]. You’ve had MANY. “PEPFAR” was one of them. Now that we’re both out of office and continuing our public service through new avenues, we once again find ourselves ON THE SAME SIDE of an important point. This year, the Penn Biden Center of Diplomacy Engagement JOINED the George W. Bush Institute in Freedom House to undertake a study on what’s called “The Democracy Project” - a national & international survey to gauge attitudes, American attitudes, about the core democratic principles and how we can strengthen and support democracies AROUND THE WORLD. Because they’re under seige in many parts of the world today.”

[quote][bold]“President Bush and Laura, we SHARE a belief that those VALUES that undergrit [sp] our democracy are precious and they exist way ABOVE party and have to be defended. That’s the Duty of PATRIOTS! [*Audience breaks into applause*]. That’s the Duty of PATRIOTS!”.[/bold]


[quote] “As a team, Laura, you and the President continue to take on big challenges in your post-White House years through your work at the George W. Bush Institute. And tonight we recognize the impact you’ve made through your enduring commitment to supporting America’s veterans and caregivers. And if my mother were here, looking at you, being married for as long as you have, she’d say: “No purgatory for you, dear, straight to heaven. Straight to heaven!”. Because you UNDERSTAND the sacrifice that we ask of our men and women who wear the uniform of the United States and the toll that it takes on both the service members and their families.”

Biden’s glorious bipartisan speech (contd):

[quote] [bold]“I’ve long said we have many, many obligations as a country. But we only have in my view, and I get criticized for saying it, but I’ll say it again: “We only have one SACRED obligation. One TRULY SACRED obligation: to properly EQUIP those WE send to WAR and care for them and their families, both while they’re deployed and when they return.”[/bold]

[quote] “Promoting awareness about mental health issues for servicemen and veterans and their families is one of the core issues my wife Jill and I focus on at the Biden Foundation. [bold]So I want to APPLAUD EVERYTHING YOU’VE DONE, both of you, to care - connect and care - these connect providers for the veterans who need help through the WARRIOR Wellness Alliance, ensuring our HEROES and their families can reach out and get help.”[/bold] […]

[quote] “The Bush Institute’s “Military Service Initiative” has been a LEADER on these issue for many years, including a critical PARTNER - the “Joining Forces Initiative” which JILL (my wife) and the First Lady Michelle Obama started during our administration. […]

[quote] [bold]”Mr. President, I’ve always been IMPRESSED by your ability to CONNECT with people.[/bold] And I DEEPLY RESPECT your commitment to Team 43, forming these personal relationships with our wounded WARRIOS through sports and HONORING their individual stories with the art of Portraits of COURAGE. It’s incredibly personal to the Biden family as well. We learned what it means to be a MILITARY FAMILY when our son, Beau, was deployed to Iraq for a year; came back a DECORATED SOLDIER after a year.” […]

[quote] [bold]“It’s not about, again, Democrats and Republicans. It’s about who we are.[/bold] It’s about standing up for the men and women who put their lives on the line to defend us every single day. It’s about FIGHTING for the soul of this nation that has given us so much. [bold]So THANK YOU BOTH, President Bush and Mrs. Bush, for your ongoing commitment to HONOR and SUPPORT the brave men and women who serve in the U.S. MILITARY. Which is, WITHOUT FEAR OF CONTRADICTION, the finest FIGHTING FORCE in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD. That is NOT hyperbole. THE finest force in the HISTORY of the world.” [*Audience breaks into applause*]

[quote] “For all your efforts on their behalf - I’m about to say the medal you’re going to be presented, but I want to tell you, Mr. President - my wife, Jill, who could not be with us tonight, wanted me to simultaneously present you both with the Philadelphia Eagles Jersey tonight. President Bush asked about the game [night]. He said: “Joe, are you an Eagles fan?”. I said: “Yes, unless I want to sleep alone - I married a Philly girl!”.

[quote] “Mr. President, on a very serious note - it’s MY HONOR to present you both with the [Philadelphia] National Constitution Center 2016 [edit: he meant 2018, Joe forgot what year it was] LIBERTY Medal. You both deserve it.” [*Applause*]

The irony is that while Biden was on stage, busy passionately blowing Dubya’s shrivelled cock and singing his praises about “helping” and “honoring” “the veteran Warriors of the Finest Fighting Force in the History of the World”, waxing lyrical about the core importance of paying attention to veterans’ struggles - there was a small protest congregated outside (it was audible even in the background of Biden’s speech). The outside protest was made up of military veterans who were demanding that both of those geriatric bureaucrats SPEAK to those veterans who disagreed with the “patriot” wars. Of course, neither Biden nor Bush ever had the guts to even talk to them. Instead they stayed inside, surrounded by Pentagon sycophants, swapped chummy jokes about the Eagles football game and patted each other on the back for being true “patriots” who impose “democracy” around the world by means of “the Finest Fighting Force in human history”.

So here’s the Big Question, OP: if even the leaders of the 2 'opponent' parties themselves are so chummy with each other and maintain such cozy relations - why would YOU be cutting your family members out of your life then? If the Bidens and Michelle Obama don’t cut or ghost even the freakin’ retired Bushes out of their lives - why would you do something that even the Bidens and Obamas don’t do?

I find it deeply ironic that Elite members of the Establishment from the 2 parties stir up so much frenzied hate among the hoi polloi masses - to the point where whole families break up and start hating each other, screaming “deplorables! libtards!” at each other. [italic]Meanwhile[/italic], the politicians themselves are almost all MERRILY hanging out TOGETHER, cracking jokes, giving each other MEDALS, patting each other on the buttocks, and gifting each other football jerseys!

The Party Leaders are laughing at you, OP. They’re laughing at all of us. They start the fire, they sow the seeds of division, and then they make YOU or me hold the matches - meanwhile they’re all off to enjoy e.g. an Eagles football game together.

The “divide and conquer” method is not something invented by China. It’s been a strategy since at least the times of the Roman Republic, and promoted by the Establishment itself. The likes of Biden and Bush are pleased as punch with the current state of affairs: effectively a “2-party Pendulum system” with no other powerhouse competition ever [italic]de facto[/italic] allowed into the ring.

In order to keep the 2-party system going, the Dems tell you you need to vote Dem (otherwise the “deplorable racist GOP” will win!) and the GOPers tell their audience they have to vote only Republican (otherwise the “commie globalist Dems” will win!). The result is that most of the electorate is evenly divided and too afraid to risk voting for a 3rd party or independent candidate (otherwise the “enemy party” will win!). What a ‘perfect’ system (for the Establishment) - perpetual 2-party pendulum status quo, perpetual Imperialist Militarism and expansionist modern-colonialism, perpetual foreign war profits (which both party leaders support).

Whether they win or lose the election - doesn’t really bother them as much as people think, because by quashing any 3rd party competition, both parties are effectively guaranteed spots in Congress. It’s always a win-win for the Dems and GOPers.

Easy...You don't.

Also, OP, I'd suggest you show your Republican and/or Conservative relatives/friends the following quotes:

[quote] MSN, October 2018: [bold]Michelle Obama, a Democrat, said her friendship with Bush [Jr], a Republican, defies labels. “Party doesn't separate us," she said. “I love him to death. He's a WONDERFUL man. He's a funny man.”[/bold]

[quote] [bold]"I actually LIKE Dick Cheney, FOR REAL" Biden said in 2015. "I GET ON with him. I think he's a DECENT man."[/bold]

Do you get it now, OP? Do your GOP relatives/friends get it?

While poor you and your family potentially scratch each other’s eyes out - the Establishment Dems and Establishment GOPers (modern-day Patricians) go for cocktails together and share a bowl of popcorn, laughing and watching Plebs like YOU fight your own relatives and friends.

Wake up, OP. And advise your conservative relatives/friends to wake up, if they have a functioning brain. Don’t give the Establishment such cheap entertainment. Don’t be a pawn in their “divide and rule” games. Don’t automatically sacrifice your life relationships just because of “party loyalty”. Because many party figureheads sure as heck don’t believe in “party loyalty” themselves.

Since Michelle Obama openly brags that the Republican leader who started the illegal Iraq War (ca. 1 million dead or injured as a result) is a “wonderful man” - then you sure as feck have a valid excuse for keeping any relationships that YOU personally want, regardless of “party loyalty”.

Since Michelle Obama enjoys cracking jokes with a war-criminal behind THE biggest war of this 21st Century, and since Biden helped secure that war-vote for Bush, and ALL get a free pass for it - then you can totally have a family dinner with a Republican grandfather if you want.

If the top-tier Dems often don’t even hold themselves to their own touted ‘principles’ - then why would you break up with people over these things? Don’t hold yourself to a higher ‘purity’ standard than the standard set by your elected party leadership.

You can bet that if Clinton’s daughter starts dating Pence’s son (a Lieutenant in the Marines), or if Biden’s son starts dating Bush’s daughter - all these so-called nominal “political opponents” will still merrily jet off together for a ski holiday in Aspen and find common ground by celebrating “our brave military warrior heroes” invading e.g. Kyrgyzstan. Patricians like them don’t really give a sheet about “party loyalty” or “party principles”. The last 2 decades have pretty much exposed that the top bureaucrats on Capitol Hill have zero “principles”. So don’t buy into their “divide & conquer” populist rhetoric - at the end of the day, behind closed doors, they’re almost all part of the same club. Don't let their Patrician mindfeck chess games drive a wedge between you and your "loved ones".

OP- How's it going these days? How about the rest of you who have to deal with this?

R191, what you fail to acknowledge is that many of the every day rank and file conservatives weaponize their beliefs to hurt others. I do not discuss my political beliefs with those who disagree. However, I have a problem with those who try to subject me to beliefs which are harmful to me (I.e. homophobia or racism). See I believe that Bush has been gracious and kind to Michelle. So yes she can disagree with his politics but still like him because he is not weaponizing his beliefs to belittle her and others in her presence. If a family member or friend value our relationship they would not intentionally hurt me. It is called being respectful.

[quote]So there was time I thought I would be rejected because I was Gay by friends and family. This was nearly 30 years ago. Not one of my friends and family did , even though I knew it was hard for some of them. Why the fuck would I reject anyone based on their politics, who I loved? I might think WTF. But reject them, that is something you do when you are a child .

Bad comparison., [r175]Your being gay harms no one. You did see what happened yesterday? Would you want to associate with any of those people?

Trump supporters aren't conservatives. At all. They might think they are, but they're not.

They are done as of today. I'm closing my FB account. I've had enough of the "Both siderisms". Fuck 'em all.

The military industrial complex controls our government today. The big banks just provide liquidity for the wealthy. The tech corporations are just spy organizations pretending to be private companies.

R193

[quote] However, I have a problem with those who try to subject me to beliefs which are harmful to me

This is why I will actively oppose anyone who doesn’t decisively denounce socialism. It is a death cult.

Socialism for the rich, including corporate welfare and military contracting, is just as pernicious as Socialism for the poor.

I have a conservative pal; I haven't yet asked her what she thought about the attack on the Capitol or Trump's role in it.

She's a big Tucker fan and I know he got out of a lawsuit by claiming no one should take his show seriously.

She didn't believe the woman who came forward on Cavanaugh, but she may believe the ones who spoke out on Cuomo.

We did talk once recently, but I avoided politics; it might be best.

R199 - God love you. I have no patience for willful ignorance, the decay of basic intellect, the refusal to use ones own God-given 5 basic senses and the decent into complete delusion and utter stupidity. I just won't and frankly I can't stoop to turning a blind eye and pretending that this is just normal debate over policy. The shark has been jumped by a mile at this point. They will have to come back groveling in order for me to put any time or energy into maintaining or cultivating any real relationship these days. When dealing with incompetent CLOSE family members who are ignorant Trumptards I will admit that it does get trickier for a multitude of reasons, but I absolutely refuse to reach out to them. The ball is in their court now....at least when it comes to my personal life.

Before it was Trump, it was fine. Once they supported him? I cut them all out of my life. So much happier now.