Did Hall & Oates have a gay following?

Not at all a gay following

Straights considered it fag-music.

OMG, I loved them back in the day. Maneater was my favorite.

I liked the Abandoned Luncheonette album in 1976. That was it.

They were too fug.

R2, no, they were hugely popular

Most successful duo of all time.

Didn't Hall admit to bisexual dalliances in an interview? I know I've read that but don't know if it's true or just gay urban legend.

Oates definitely had the classic 70s gay clone look down.

They both looked like queeny hairdressers

There was a rumor they were lovers. Darrel Hall's Farrah Fawcett hair was the bomb and kept it into his 60's. Hate him.

They were among a group of 70s artists (Bowie, Tina Turner) who had a career resurgence in the 80s - and for H&O their second act was much bigger than their first. Their big drums/synth sound was notably different than their earlier soft rock hits, although there was always the foundation of Halls “blue-eyed soul” vocals. They were popular in an era where there was a greater range in pop music styles then there is currently, and while their output is basic Top 40 of the era, it does have an energy and a sense of fun to it. It’s not “China Girl” but it ain’t “Sister Christian” either.

They had some great, great songs. What's weird is that they had one hit after another in the first half of the 80s but were pretty much over in the second half.

Not a "gay following" in the sense that they were something special in the gay community, but plenty of gays, like plenty of most groups, liked them. They were very big in the 80s. As others have mentioned, their earlier, pre-MTV stuff is different, but also good. I like most of it - from the folksy stuff to the 80s pop.

I always thought they were a couple. I think they moved from Philly to SF together. They were based in SF for some time and one of their album covers featured them in drag.

The drag album cover would be the last reason I thought they were gay.

Didn't Darryl have the whole long relationship with Sara of "Sarah Smile" fame - but they never got married and it ended for "undisclosed reasons." Long term beard? He was also married earlier and converted to Judaism to do it. I cannot believe DH is 74 - the same age as my father. Still looks and sounds good.

Poor, culturally illiterate OP.

Wow! Daryl really wanted to be David Bowie back in the day ...no eyebrows as well!!

Darryl did an interview with RS where he said everyone thought he and John were lovers but he was too short and dark for him. He also talked about the gay experiences he had as a young boy and Rich Girl was allegedly about a rich boy he apparently had an affair with. The reason for their popularity was MTV and whatever gay audience appeal they had was transcended by the new marketing tool.

R12 very true. Wasn’t exactly what I would call a gradual fade out. Huge then nothing.

True r19. It was odd how fast they faded, after such a big string of hits.

I thought Oates was sexy.

Although I can't say I was a huge fan, they will always be a part of my childhood...

"She's Gone" - (Originally released in '73, then re-released in '76 making the Top Ten)

"Sara Smile" - "Rich Girl" - "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling" - "Private Eyes" - "I Can't Go for That (No Can Do)" - "Your Imagination"

"Maneater" - "One On One" - "Family Man" - "Say It Isn't So" - "Out of Touch" - "Method of Modern Love"

They released a disc in '90 ("Change of Season") which I really like, too.

"Say it Isn't So" & "I Can't Go For That" are songs that put me in a good mood.

They had some of the best beats in their songs of the entire 80’s. I think their underrated songs are probabky their best “out of touch” and “possession obsession” which is mostly sung by Oates.

Teen girls loved them. FM album oriented rock stations wouldn't play them in my youth, especially after they got big because of their MTV vids.

You made me realize something about FM radio.

It does seem as if most FM stations stopped playing current music around the early 1980s and the advent of MTV.

Seems like the only current music they played was if there was a new release by one of their (predominantly white) rock acts.

Maybe it started with 1979's anti-disco backlash.

They were both hot AF.

[Quote] When Bob Buziak replaced Bob Summers as head of RCA around 84-85, he found the label was in a major drought thanks to massive overpressing of titles, poor A&R, rampant overspending by the prior regime, and overpriced contracts. Diana Ross was signed for $20 million for example and would only score 1 platinum & 2 gold sellers out of 6 releases in 7 years. Kenny was guaranteed 4 million per album no matter how well it did. Even the album with Islands In The Stream only did a million. The follow up and the Dolly Xmas projects in 84 did as well and then he went off the cliff until his contract ended in 88. Rogers requested a sitdown with Buziak when his sales and pop chart action went south. There he was told that no matter what product he turned in the label had no real interest in marketing him anymore. Buziak added that if they did, it would make the folks that hired him wonder why they fired Summers. It was rumored this logic also applied to Ross. He was only going to only promote his signings. He also considered Barry Manilow's deal unrecoupable so he cut him from the label after a year and 2 releases to let him run back to Clive Davis. This may also help explain why Hall & Oates and the Pointer Sisters also suddenly stopped having consistent hits and a slew of new signings took off culminating in a mega Soundtrack we'll discuss in a bit that netted RCA $150 million.

R17 Oh, my God, that was hilariously bad! Did they make that video in Darryl's basement or something?

John Oates did look pretty hot in his full beard, though.

I loved their 80s hit, "Adult Education," although it's one of their worst videos:

Apparently, they get very pissy about "Hall & Oates" as opposed to "Darryl Hall & John Oates." I guess both are still hoping for superstar solo careers or something.

You Make My Dreams Come True

In case you hope to run into Daryl. This place is in a really unassuming community.

What happened with Hall and Oates was that they decided to take a break following their very successful 1984 "Big Bang Boom" album. They were at the pinnacle of their career at that point. Hall released a semi-successful solo album that contained a now-forgotten top 10 hit ("Dreamtime"). I think Oates went off to write/produce for some other bands.

In 1988 they finally reunited, only to find that the public had kind of moved on. Their album went platinum, it contained a top 10 single, but there just wasn't the same buzz and excitement as there'd been for their 1980-1984 releases. Two years later they released another album, and even though it contained another hit, the album itself tanked pretty badly, only going gold instead of platinum and peaking outside the top 50.

That was the end of their peak run. They didn't put out another album for 7 years, and when they did, they were relegated to the "adult contemporary" charts.

So, even though it seems like they just vanished, that's probably because nobody remembers anything they did after 1984, even though they did manage to eke out a couple of hits. It was a fairly conventional downhill slide. Multi-platinum to platinum to gold to a "Behind the Music" episode.

Gayest album cover ever.

Shirley you jest.

I've seen them both -- separately -- in Manhattan's Greenwich Village. Both look pretty good for their ages. Both were with women and, coincidentally, both were crossing Hudson Avenue.

R36, What is the story behind that album cover and why did they approve it?

R38 It was the era of glam/glitter rock. Even though H&O didn't fall into that category musically, somebody at the record company thought it would be a good way to garner some extra attention, which it did. In addition to the photo, the album cover itself was a very shiny, metallic silver, and proved to be very eye-catching among all the other, more conventional-looking releases of the time.

The famously hated it, but I'm not sure if at that point they had the power to say no. They'd already put out 3 or 4 unsuccessful albums, and were in no position to make demands.

They had very catchy but dumb songs all over the radio. Kind of like a dancey version of Phil Collins music--not unlistenable, just not very interesting or memorable. As rock stars, they couldn't compete with MJ, Madonna, Prince, Culture Club, Duran Duran, Cyndi Lauper...compared to those stars, the reaction was "Who is Haulin' Oats and why should I care?"

Daryl Hall is a very angry, defensive guy who always gave interviewers a hard time. He'd say he's gay or bi just for kicks.

Their very best album, Abandoned Luncheonette. Not a bad song from beginning to end.

I love Hall’s voice, very pure. Their videos were really bad though but MTV gave them a second wave in the early 80s

This video still cracks me up

JGL bring back Hall and Oates.

I teach in an all-boys high school and always have music playing as the students walk into the room. Hall and Oates music was the most popular. I was constantly being asked to play H&O music last year when we could actually have in-person classes.

Have no idea, OP. Hall & Oates reminds me of what was worst about 80's music: it's radio pop -- trying too hard to please. They're videos are slick crap.

Their.

Your fancy boarding school didn't give you much of an education and nobody wants you as King ever Chaz.

I would not describe their videos as "slick." Not even for the era.

"He'd say he's gay or bi just for kicks."

Because straight guys love being thought of as gay or bi! *rolls eyes* Btw, I don't remember him every claiming to be bi or gay although I think he acknowledged that he "experimented"

[quote] They had some of the best beats in their songs of the entire 80’s.

The song "Drive it Like You Stole It" from the movie Sing Street literally steals the bassline from Maneater. I like their AC and soft rock hits but I wish they produced more stuff like Maneater and Adult Education, which is insanely catchy. Family Man is a great bop too.

[quote] Hall released a semi-successful solo album that contained a now-forgotten top 10 hit ("Dreamtime").

Such a great uplifting song. Dreamtime and Eric Carmen's Make Me Lose Control are perfect cruising songs.

R34 - "Dreamtime" now-forgotten? I came on this thread because that was like my theme song in the 80's! They used to show the video of it on MTV over and over and I loved it every time.

I have a theory that there is a pre- and post-Madonna divide to the 80s. A lot of successful early 80s groups didn't survive the Madonna and Madonna Wannabe's onslaught.

They were huge and are still wildly popular. If they were gay would Oates let DH keep that blonde shag/feathered do for so long? Would DH let Oates keep that mustache forever?

Love the song, but the video makes them seem gayer than Boy George.

Not kidding - one of my favorite non-singles from them is the Oates-sung Mano a Mano off of Private Eyes.

I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating somebody, but Hall's "Live From Darryl's House" was incredible. So many great guests and the musicianship was stellar. Hall really knows how to sing and never lost his voice.

I remember in the earlier 80s there was a gay bar that was known for playing videos called Private Eyes.

"Daryl Hall is a very angry, defensive guy who always gave interviewers a hard time."

He's an interesting guy. I usually love hearing him talk about music, but he can get pissy. He was once talking about being appreciated in the Black community. Hall and Oates was popular among Black people, but sometimes Black DJs, commentators, fans, would peg HO as "blue-eyed soul." Darryl had a valid point about not wanting to be pigeonholed and if fans liked the music, why tie it to race? But, the term blue-eyed soul, used by black people, has never been an insult. It's more a term of endearment for artists like Teena Marie and Hall and Oates, and he knows that. Yet, he went off on a big rant about it as if people celebrating his music and buying his albums made him a victim just because sometimes that description was used. Then he said something about how HO was the first group to really ever do R&B/pop crossover or something. It made no sense. He's thoughtful and interesting, and also incredibly full of himself.

Righteous Brothers did pretty well on the black chart.

I thought H&O were the literal poster boys for blue eyed soul?

Darryl’s son revealing interview about his no good deadbeat father.

"Righteous Brothers did pretty well on the black chart."

Yep. Lots of non-Black artists have done well on the Black/R&B/Urban charts over the decades.

R62 Guess his son couldn't even afford to relist the domain as its now expired. I actually agree with his dad that the music business is hard to break into even if you have a famous father. However, paying so little in child support was a dick move.

The son seems totally like anybody who was cold-shouldered by their father. He doesn't sound like he expects some big check - just that DH should have paid more child support when he was growing up and gave him more of his time and attention.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Probably the nature of the relationship with the parent. The son was the product of a one night stand. The daughter is the kid of someone he's in a relationship with and ostensibly loves (or was in a relationship and did love).

This is one of the few singles that Oates sang lead, but I always liked it.

Daryl Hall is smokin hot in this video, and sounds excellent (as does Todd Rundgren).

Procession Obsessions at 1:42 gay couple hold hands. As a 14 yo gayling I remember feeling Hall & Oats were way cool after this aired on MTV. Whatever happened to hummable songs anyway?

The compulsion to count the percentage of time

Spent between two lovers

Can turn an hour into a crime

They're both hot in that R70.

[quote] However, paying so little in child support was a dick move.

I remember the story, it happened in my home state. He agreed to pay $1000 a month in support, which was the maximum amount under the child support guidelines of the time. A couple of years later the mother was in court asking for $10,000 a month. I've seen the court doc's for the case, as I recall she could only document expenses for about a third of that. A grand a month for one kid in northern Minnesota was a pretty good amount in the 80's & 90's. He paid the legally mandated amount, why should he have paid more?

Every time I hear Hall & Oates I'm reminded of the time I worked in a travel agency in downtown LA in the early 80's. The manager, older lady, would put on Hall & Oates vinyl at the end of the day and dance around with her heels off.

"A grand a month for one kid in northern Minnesota was a pretty good amount in the 80's & 90's. He paid the legally mandated amount, why should he have paid more? "

That's the competing theories of child support. Position 1 - you give enough so the kid get the necessities of life, somewhere between the minimum and maximum legally mandated. Position 2 - the kid is the kid of a rich musician and should get to live as such as he would if the parents were together - better than kids whose parents actually don't have much money and are strictly following the legal guidelines.

I'd vote for somewhere in between.

[quote]I'd vote for somewhere in between.

The question with that, is how do you make sure that the additional money is spent for the benefit of the child? Custodial parents don't have to account for how they spend the support they receive.

"The court finally implied that while the mother's needs may be considered, it would be inappropriate to use a child support obligation to upgrade her standard of living. In this sense, a distinction was made between the mother's needs and the standard of living to be enjoyed by a family. The maximum appropriate award under the guidelines effectively suggests a normal "cap" on the use of support to upgrade a child's standard of living."

"We do not agree with [the father] that the need of the child is controlling. Nor do we believe, however, that the child's support should be determined mainly on the non-custodial father's standard of living. Ellen N. v. Stuart K., 88 Misc.2d 280, 387 N.Y.S.2d 367 (1976). The court must be cognizant of the fact that "to raise [the mother's] standard of living through the vehicle of child support would constitute the imposition of an unauthorized obligation on part of the father toward the mother." Kathy G.J. v. Arnold D., 116 A.D.2d 247, 255, 501 N.Y.S.2d 58, 64 (1986), cert. denied, ___ U.S. ___, 107 S. Ct. 927 [93 L. Ed. 2d 979] (1987). Also, an award for child support is for the child's current needs based on the child's appropriate standard of living and not for the purpose of saving portions thereof for future needs."

In the mid-80s I worked for a shady porn film warehouse company in Hollywood. The office manager there had 7 adult children who were all either ex-cons, addicts, prostitutes, or a combination thereof. Her name was Pat and she was from New York. Needless to say, it was a lively work environment. One of her daughters was the co-owner of the business and would do lines of coke five feet behind me in her "office" along with the owner who was her boyfriend. They'd sometimes be short on payroll because it would go up their nose. Anyway, Pat told us once about one of her other daughters in New York who was a prostitute - call girl, not a street walker. Supposedly, one of her regular clients were Hall & Oates. She would service them together at the same time. No information on whether or not H&O ever played with each other during these sessions. Believe me, I asked.

They were musical chameleons. They'd go in whatever direction was hot at the time and did so credibly: From folk to soul to "space rock" (with Todd Rundgren producing) to New Wave-y to big beats 80's pop. Pretty talented guys and Hall is a great (if sometimes hammy) singer. I've seen them a few times and they still pull out the stops (plus you know every single song except for those tunes thrown in for bathroom breaks).

Back in the pre-internet days when urban myths were all the rage (Richard Gere's gerbil, Rod Stewart's cum filled stomach, etc), word was that were a couple. But I knew people who knew them (really) and they said they were pussy hounds (particularly that rascally Oates).

Gotta call bullshit on that story, R76. They were huge rockstars and good-looking too; they could have their pick of willing groupies to service them both for free.

They were huge, and wrote great songs. (Michael Jackson admitted to stealing from them for "BIlie Jean.") They were both sexy in very different ways, obviously, and people loved to speculate about their relationship.

r79 My experience with my office manager was true. I don't doubt one of her daughters was a prostitute or call girl. She certainly wouldn't brag about it. Whether or not her story about H&O being clients of her daughter is something one can either choose to believe or not, but that's the story she told us one night after work. Just because certain people are available for sex doesn't necessarily mean those are the ones selected. Big stars use escorts and call girls quite often. I'm just recounting the story Pat, the office manager told us. I always found it interesting, so I never forgot it. Living in LA for my first 29 years, I have my own stories about personal encounters with celebrities, so I don't doubt these seemingly outrageous tales.

You don't pay prostitutes for sex, you pay them TO LEAVE.

R81, only a very naive person thinks celebrities don't need or want to pay for escorts. I believe your story.

Lots of celebrities pay for hookers and escorts because it's purely transactional and they don't kiss and tell.

Daryl Hall's singing voice was overrated, IMO. He always seemed like he was pushing out a turd when reaching for his notes.

Anyway, that doesn't stop me from enjoying "Live from Daryl's House" on YouTube. Here are the O'Jays at Daryl's house:

Yeah they did fuck. Hall caught feelings but Oates preferred da pussay

I believe R76! They were very big in the 80’s with a lot of hits and rumors about their relationship (I heard the same as R86). “Sara Smile” is very nostalgic and I have to start dancing every time I hear “You Make My Dreams Come True”.

Oates was so fucking beautiful in his prime.

Wow, 88 posts and not a mention of their biggest hit "Kiss On My List". That song was for H&O like "Crocodile Rock" was for Elton John. It took them from being popular musicians to being superstars...but lost the love of the critics.

A friend of mine was in the music industry a long time. She fucked Hall a few times. Apparently exceptionally well endowed but not a very attentive lover. I'm not suprised. Gay or straight, most guys with big digs are Big Dicks.

People liked their songs, but neither of them was interesting enough to have any sort of following.

What exactly is "Say It Isn't So" about?

I knew who they were of course,and I knew I liked a few of their songs,but until this thread i had forgotten how many of their songs I liked ! Man eater was my personal anthem back then. It fit me perfectly .

Just for the record now it's Oates and Hall

I was hoping someone would remember their Will & Grace appearance!

[quote] Gotta call bullshit on that story, [R76]. They were huge rockstars and good-looking too; they could have their pick of willing groupies to service them both for free.

In addition to Charlie Sheen, Don Henley and Glen Frey (Eagles) paid for sex. It's documented in the DL-fave book "You'll Never Make Love in This Town Again." The prostitute (who told her story in the book) said that Frey was a good lover, Henley was not.

Here are rehearsals for "We Are the World." Steve Perry's bit was right before Darryl Hall's bit. Steve Perry's voice was hot and he hit his high note time after time. Darryl struggled, had to use a music sheet for his one line. He did look like he was pushing out a turd.

R85, that's my favorite episode of Live from Darryl's House - The O'Jays.

Hall and Oates gay? Let's go to the tape, or video as it were.

[quote]Hall released a semi-successful solo album that contained a now-forgotten top 10 hit ("Dreamtime").

It might be forgotten but it's still one of my favorites, along with the H&O "Out of Touch" and several others.

I never got a gay vibe from Hall, he always seemed like an asshole straight guy to me, but I genuinely thought Oates was gay for a long time. When he got married in the 1990s I remember my boyfriend and I at the time heard the news story and said, "...to a woman?"

R97, Hall’s Voice is harsh as fuck.

One of my favorite Hall and Oates songs. Both were at the height of their attractiveness during this period. Hall.looks like he was channeling David Bowie during his Thin White Duke period.

^^I’d be stunned if It’s a Laugh wasn’t ghost written by Todd Rundgren Chord changes and harmonies could only be his.