The Sopranos Thread

I fucking love it. We binged the whole series again and March-April when we were locked down. It holds up.

The show stays with you and I think about it at weird times. Although based on Italian-Americans in New Jersey, it fundamentally American.

The big sky thought: you can have everything you need (and more) and still really have nothing and be miserable.

And of course all the family dynamics that ring true in so many families.

Boring, old hat.

....

James Gandolfini was born to play Tony Soprano.

Remember that crazy bitch at the Mercedes dealership? She coulda been a DLer.

[quote] It holds up.

Unlike you at your daughter's wedding, Ginnie.

Say, did you ever get that mole looked at?

[quote]He killed 16 Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator.

Jackie Jr ... damm

This bitch DOES post here.

I never watched it, for some reason, until I was stuck indoors for months on end. I've since watched it 4 times over. I hate and pity the characters at the same time. The writing is so fucking good. Every character is a jewel. What I do dislike is the way these people don't seem to know anyone other than other rich Italians. With the exception of an occasional meal of Chinese they eat nothing but Italian food. Carmella cooks the same shit every mean. I mean in real life, mob or not mob related do rich Italians only know other Italians? Do their kids go to school only with other Italian kids? Do they eat Italian food for almost every meal of their lives. I like the occasional Italian meal but watching the show I sometimes think I'm going to puke if I see them shovel one more forkful of pasta with red sauce into their mouths.

Also, I read the actress who played Meadow is actually a Jewish girl from Long Island NY and that when she saw herself onscreen for the pilot she thought she looked so fat she became anorexic and went down below 80 pounds. When she came back to do the series she looked so bad TPTB told her if she didn't gain 20 - 30 pounds they would start the show with another actress. They liked her and waited for her to look better again. Even so, if you look at her from the pilot to the first regular episode you can still see a big difference in her face and body.

The actor who played the Soprano son was recently arrested.

I don't think other than the actress who played Carmella any of them ever had a real success after the series ended.

Oh and the ending totally sucked IMO. I think they were trying to be artsy but I think it was just lazy and it sucked. I too thought something had happened to my cable or TV. That's as much as I can say without giving away the ending for those who have not seen it.

Jesus, you watched it four times since the pandemic? You might be due for an intervention.

Gandolfini’s son Michael will star as the young Tony in The Many Saints of Newark, the prequel to The Sopranos coming sometime 2021

I’d rather have a sequel series than a prequel movie, but I’ll take what I can get.

The heaviest episode I can think of was the one of Tony killing Ralphie. That was intense. But I did have a much needed laugh when Christopher had dead Ralphie in the tub and grabbed his hair to move him and the wig came off and Christopher screamed. I needed that.

Sorry. I LOVED that finale ending. And Chase was correct- It was ALL there. Watch the episode at the cabin (Was it called Soprano Home Movies?)

It was all there and perfect.

Tony was assassinated and it all just went black. End of story.

And how that last 2-3 minutes built that suspense with Meadow just trying to park her car?

I can still remember my heart pounding.

A classic. I have never understood the hatred for that finale.

I agree R16. The end was pitch perfect, although I did initially think the cable went out when the screen went black.

Everybody and their mother thought the cable went out. I watched it with my family and I’ll never forget the sight of my father standing there at the television with the remote. The credits finally started rolling and he’s like “What the hell happened?” He thought he missed the ending. But I knew. I knew that was the way it was meant to be.

Lorraine Bracco was sexy as hell in it.

[quote] With the exception of an occasional meal of Chinese they eat nothing but Italian food.

Or chocolate bars hidden in the dryer.

[quote]The heaviest episode I can think of was the one of Tony killing Ralphie.

For me it was Silvio killing Adriana.

Ralphie killing the stripper was a tough scene to watch though.

Ralphie is the single most repulsive character in the series.

A: she was a hooah. B: she hit him first.

We’re watching Crazy Gloria threatening to kill herself as I type. Watching the series for the first time.

"Talking Sopranos" is hosted by Michael Imperioli (Christopher) & Steve Schirippa (Bobby Bacala). Check it out. According to Imperioli & Schirippa, Ralph killing the stripper (episode) got a lot of backlash. There's a Talking Sopranos episode where they interview the actress who played the stripper. IMO, they're acting all sensitive now b/c of the backlash. There was so much misogynistic stuff on the Sopranos and I guess viewers thought it crossed the line with the murder of the stripper.

Pauline Walnuts was a stone cold killer. He would have killed his own mother if Tony told him too. When he killed that old lady for her small nest egg to give to Tony. Oof, that was hard to watch. Harder than Tracy (who burned her kids hand on a stove)

Adrianna’s murder was hard to watch too. When she was driving with Silvio and starts to daydream what could have been.

[quote] I think us fans

Oh, dear!

I disagree with many about the ending. I think it shows all of the forces against Tony gathering around him—the various unresolved plot lines, the hidden enemies. It foreshadows his death. We know that as he sits there with his family, seemingly happy, his life will be over soon. It’s all going to catch up with him.

I remember sitting there , heart pounding, laughing and saying HOLY FUCK! in front of that black screen (What did it last??10-15 seconds??) I knew exactly what it meant and there was no question. But you had to have watched the show with more than a "Holy SHIT! Who is gonna get whacked this week!" mentality. The show was far deeper than many fans realized. And the Meadow parking the car stuff- it was BRILLIANTLY done. And if you watched it and payed attention, it was pretty rewarding. To this day, I can only shake my head at the haters. David Chase despised many of the fans of this show for that very reason. He cared far more about the show and the characters and the stories than the "fans" did. Half of the fans were fucking morons. It was a brilliant ending. The best.

The show had misogyny and racism because the characters were misogynist and racist. I really hate the current thinking that you can tell these stories and have them be remotely interesting by applying wokeness.

Coincidentally I had SIRIUS XM's Sinatra channel on today and they played "It Was a Very Good Year". I cannot hear that song without thinking of the opening scene from Season 2 where they played the song over a montage of the characters.

[quote] And if you watched it and payed attention

Oh, dear!

It took me years to appreciate how brilliant the ending was but I get it now.

PAID R32, PAID, motherfucker. You old schoolmarm dickless who-haa!!!!

Ya mother's CUNT!

Things don't turn out well for us.

Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this.

Vito Spatafore and Johnny Cakes - The Odd Couple

I loved Adriana. Also, I was very moist for the FBI guy Dwight Harris. He and Tony had a lot in common.

R37 I loved that couple. Vito was so happy.

It has aged much better than Breaking Bad.

I loved the FBI guy too. I remember him from OLTL. I like the 1 second scene when Carmella thinks she sees Adriana in Paris and Adriana had her sweet little dog. I think we were supposed to think it was just Carmella's imagination but I always hoped that poor Adriana actually was happy and reunited with her dog. Also she looked so great in that French high fashion.

R40 I disagree. I think they're both current and the ending of Breaking Bad was much more satisfying.

Father Phil Intintola was a worm of a guy, but I liked the actor playing him.

The ending of Breaking Bad was way more contrived to me. I like that The Sopranos didn't try to wrap everything up so tightly.

Not for me.

The Sopranos feels so aughts.

The Sopranos is still great today. That’s the bar by which everything else is measured. No show has equaled it yet in my opinion.

I’m rewatching it’s now. I love Gloria she was my favourite of Tony’s girlfriends

R47, that actress was so good. Aside from Law and Order: Criminal Intent, was she ever in anything big?

Ya think I can get free fucking tyas????/

LOVE GLORIA.

I also loved Valentina who came after Gloria. She was elegant and FUNNY. She wasn't crazy. I dug her too.

The series holds up extremely well, especially when compared to something like Sex and the City, which aired at roughly the same time but is horrifically dated.

I admit that I usually stop watching with 6-18, as those final 3 episodes are so terribly dark. The characters deserve their fates, but I don't like watching them get their comeuppance.

Michael Gandolfini is the living image of his father. I hope he inherited his father's onscreen charisma as well as his face.

[QUOTE] I admit that I usually stop watching with 6-18, as those final 3 episodes are so terribly dark. The characters deserve their fates, but I don't like watching them get their comeuppance.

R50 a grown man made a wager; he lost. He made another one; he lost. End of story! So take that high moral ground and go sleep in the fucking bus station if you want!

The actress who played Gloria Trillo was blacklisted by Harvey Weinstein.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

This was the most overrated show of all time. It was so contrived and derivative with embarrassing dialogue. Not one character (except Edie Falco’s) seemed like anything other than a caricature.

I’ll allow the horrible misogyny and racism because, yes, those were part of the characters...but the way they relied on that was lazy lazy lazy. (See: strip club scenes...zzzzzzz.)

Lorraine Bracco as Dr Melfi was my favorite female character. She and Tony had great chemistry.

If yiu watch actual mob documentaries the girlfriends and wives weren't even halfway pretty. It was laughable that these second rate mobsters got first rate women. And young ones too.

SPOILER FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T SEEN THE SERIES TO THE END YET:

Could someone explain why we're supposed to know that Tony gets whacked at the end?

I thought it was a maybe. There definitely was something going on...but what, exactly?

What is the specific action that tells us what happens?

R58 I think David Chase was exhausted and gave up, knowing he'd never satisfy everyone who loved the show. He basically bailed on the ending leaving it up to each viewer to insert their own ending. I'm amazed at how adamant some viewers are about their belief that Tony was whacked. Who is to say there wasn't a drawdown and Tony survived? Chase left it all up to the viewer to project their own satisfactory ending.

Love you James Gandolfini, forever.

Well he said it all goes black when you die and the ending gave you the panicky feeling that dealt with all day until, blackness. I thought it was brilliant at the time and I'm happy to see people coming around to my way of thinking.

R61 Wow. That is one powerful ego!

I too screamed at the tv when the ending aired ,but after multiple viewings I think it really is brilliant. It was inevitable that Tony came to a bad end . He knew that ,Carmela knew it,they all knew it.

There were so many good moments of this show; Tony's tears over his realization that AJ is a loser & there is nothing he can do about it because AJ could not survive in Tony's world; Carmela's attempts to buy respectability, but her complete willingness to break the law when it suited her purpose; Christopher's occasional moments of clarity about the kind of guy he really is...and there were just so many good peripheral characters like Johnny Sack's wife & daughters, Tony's lawyer, etc.....

[quote] Could someone explain why we're supposed to know that Tony gets whacked at the end?

There are numerous articles online that probably explain it better, but here goes...

In addition to all the clues and pointers spread out over the last season (notably Bobby's lines about everything just going black, no sound or anything), there is a fairly precise pattern to the last scene in the diner:

A.) A shot of Tony in the booth

B.) The sound of the ringing bell signifying someone coming into the diner.

C.) Tony looks to the door, cut to...

D.) ...a POV shot of what Tony sees.

This pattern repeats over and over and over. Finally, the family (minus Meadow) is gathered in the booth. There’s a shot of Tony. We hear the bell signifying someone (Meadow?) entering the diner. Tony looks up and... Blackout. This is what Tony sees: blackness.

As a director, Chase is nothing if not a cinematic formalist. The pattern (and the lack of payoff) means something. It’s all very Hitchcock/Truffaut. Watch the scene a few times in a row. It’s actually pretty clear. To me, anyway.

There’s also a lot of speculation about the color scheme and the family putting the onion rings into their mouths like communion wafers. I don’t know about the onion rings, but Chase had the mural behind them in the diner (it’s a real NJ diner) repainted to his specifications and I doubt he’d do that if it didn’t serve a bigger thematic purpose. Again, he’s a total, old-school film school kind of guy.

One of the FUNNIEST scenes in the show - Tony's sister Janice is having sex with one of the mafia guys- I think it was Ralphie. She's shoving a dildo up his ass , has a gun to his head and says to him- I'LL PIMP YOU OUT BITCH!

Also, the opening image of the last episode looks like Tony in his coffin, with funereal music playing. It's foreshadowing that he'll be in his coffin soon.

In an interview after the show ended, Chase was more optimistic about Tony's kids. He said that AJ would end up a low-level movie producer working for Little Carmine's straight-to-video film company. Meadow would probably never become a doctor or lawyer, but the high-powered lawyer she's married to isn't a violent criminal like her father. In that sense, Carmela and Tony were successful parents: They got their children out of the mob life.

Someone on another thread pointed out that the job Tony found for his biological son--producer working for Little Carmine's film company--is the job his spiritual son Christopher would have killed for. But Tony blocked Christopher's film ambitions at every turn and, in the end, killed Christopher over the portrayal of the mob boss in Cleaver.

My all time favorite show.

I remember when it first aired, I was traveling a lot with my job and would watch it in my hotel rooms. I thought it was just okay and stopped watching it. A year or so later Six Feet Under came out, and I fell in love with it instantaneously. I watched the entire series. A few years ago, I was able to watch the Sopranos, beginning to end, and I had to admit it was far superior to SFU. It is still my all time favorite TV show.

The characters are so beautifully flawed, and despite everything you manage to find empathy towards them all. Brilliant writing, acting and production value. James Gandolfini was Tony Soprano! I don't think anyone else could have played him.

Vince Gilligan, I believe said "if there hadn't been a Tony Soprano, there would never have been a Walter White." What an awesome compliment! I also believe Alan Ball tipped his hat to David Chase and the Sopranos.

[quote]No show has equaled it yet in my opinion.

"The Wire" was as good or better.

The Wire fell apart at the end.

I could never get into the wire. Watched about five episodes at the beginning.

I loved the Wire, but it did fall apart at the end - or maybe sunk under the weight of it's own self-importance. I lost interest in the Sopranos at the end too - just too dark and because no one ever changed or grew, the characters did the same thing over & over again, all while Tony loses power & becomes more trapped.

[quote][bold]Dr. Krakower:[/bold] You tell me he's a depressed criminal, prone to anger, serially unfaithful. Is that your definition of a good man?

[quote][bold]Carmela:[/bold] I thought psychiatrists weren’t supposed to be judgmental.

[quote][bold]Dr. Krakower:[/bold] Many patients want to be excused for their current predicament because of events that occurred in their childhood. That’s what psychiatry has become in America. Visit any shopping mall or ethnic pride parade and witness the results. ...You'll never be able to feel good about yourself. You'll never be able to quell the feelings of guilt and shame that you talked about, so long as you're his accomplice.

[quote][bold]Carmela:[/bold] You're wrong about the accomplice part, though.

[quote][bold]Dr. Krakower:[/bold] You sure?

[quote][bold]Carmela:[/bold] All I did was make sure he's got clean clothes in his closet and dinner on his table.

[quote][bold]Dr. Krakower:[/bold] So "enable" would be a more accurate job description for what you do than "accomplice". My apologies.

[...]

[quote][bold]Dr. Krakower:[/bold] Take only the children--what's left of them--and go.

[quote][bold]Carmela:[/bold] My priest said I should work with him, help him to become a better man.

[quote][bold]Dr. Krakower:[/bold] How's that going?

[...]

[quote][bold]Carmela:[/bold] I would have to get a lawyer, find an apartment, arrange for child support...

[quote][bold]Dr. Krakower:[/bold] You're not listening. I'm not charging you because I won't take blood money. You can't either... one thing you can’ never say, that you haven’t been told.

Very well put R65. Rewatching the series now with my partner, who was in Jr high and not interested in that type of show when it started. I haven't seen an episode in ten years but other than obvious things like tech and pop culture references it holds up surprisingly well.

😂 That psychiatrist destroyed Carmela’s soul. She barely had enough strength to walk out of there and ended up on the couch all day

R66

I also loved that sign. Also enjoyed it when she shot Richie Aprile.

When Ton gave away that raggedy brown leather jacket to his cleaning lady's husband.

If Tony died at the diner that night, Carmela came out okay. Sure, she was no doubt traumatized by her husband's violent death, but he died before the FBI could seize all of their assets. Carmela kept the house, the cars, all her jewelry, and the millions of dollars we've seen Tony stashing away in foreign accounts for the last couple of seasons. Carmela ended up a rich fortysomething widow. Perhaps she can give Vic Musto a call.

If Tony died at the diner that night, Carmela came out okay.

I don't know; if there's one thing that the show demonstrated over & over again is that no matter what Tony did or how angry they got at him, they didn't do well enough on their own & always came back to his orbit. Carmela would have $$, but she'd be a marginal figure that none of the others would talk to or listen to anymore & she'd hate that. Likewise, Meadow needed to be Miss Bigshot - and AJ surely would be killed in some senseless fight. She'd end up like Livia, spending the rest of her life fuming away at her fate.

I think there would have been a big part of Carmella who was relieved by Tony's murder. She could rationalize living with all the blood money as the poor widow who gave her family the best years of her life and had two children to support. Carmella is the only one in the inner circle who has a sense of how despicable they all are, but she is pays the guilt and shame lip service to ease her conscience.

They could do a really good sequel exploring this.

For current TV writers it's the George Washington on Mt. Rushmore (The Wire, Mad Men, and Breaking Bad being the other three) for modern dramas. I don't see that changing anytime soon. It's simply a fantastic series from premise to execution, from beginning to end.

I agree that Carmela would be relieved. One thing the show says over and over is how smart Carmela is, how she could have had a much more fulfilling life if she'd finished college and not married Tony. Since she'd only be mid-40s when Tony died, she'd have plenty of time and money to start over. She might not care about being head mobwife anymore but could feel smug that she and her children had escaped that life and no longer had to worry about FBI raids and asset seizures.

I had started re-watching The Sopranos this past March. After we go deeper and not the pandemic, I put it aside because I felt I needed something more cheerful to watch. This thread is making me want to resume from where I left off back in late March.

No matter how dark the show got, it was still fantastic! I wish there was more TV like this.

The others didn't do well away from Tony because he did everything in his power to draw them back in. He could have given Carmela a clean and easy divorce with a decent financial settlement for her, but he left her so poor and miserable that eventually, she had to go back to him.

He could have let Meadow go to Berkeley way back in Season 3, and thus stand a very good chance of getting completely free of that life forever, but he insisted she stay closer to home. When she had boyfriends outside the life, they were inevitably scared away via direct intimidation (Noah) or disgust at the realities of mob life (Finn). In the end, Meadow marries another mob kid, the smart equivalent of Jackie Jr. Patrick's father Patsy will probably be the new boss once Tony dies, and so Meadow will always have ties to that life, especially given that her husband is a mob lawyer.

When he tried to break free via joining the Army, Tony bribed him back in with a new car and an easy, high-paying job. Going by the look of his girlfriends who weren't Blanca (who dumped him once she really understood what his family was), he'll marry a vapid, venal blonde just like his mother. AJ will owe his life and career to Tony's mob ties.

Tony's wife and kids would have been better off without him. The Jewish psychiatrist told Carmela that. By the time Tony dies, it's too late. They'll always be complicit in his crimes.

Vito Spotafore the original cock gobbler!

R84 fucking auto correct/auto fill. It should have read “after we got deeper into the pandemic....”

Correction to R85: *When AJ tried to break free . . .

Ah, yes R85, but remember when Carmela was building the house & couldn't get the necessary permits so what does she do - turn to Tony to throw his weight around to get her what she needed. Tony & Carmela pay big bucks for Meadow to go to Columbia but who does she end up with - Jackie Jr & in even deeper in the mix of her old life. Carmela's parents pull rank using Tony's status over & over again.

Not trying to argue, but I think that was one of the great things about the show: Tony is clearly the "baddie" and while his wife & kids are also in many respects his victims, they also revel in the status & perks of Tony's role. The family doesn't want Tony to be anything other than Top Dog - even Carmela's parents.

[quote] I could never get into the wire. Watched about five episodes at the beginning.

I felt the same way, you really have to dedicate your time to watching it. That first season takes a while to take off. It took me about three tries to get past the first three episodes.

The Wire and Breaking Bad are too macho and self serious for me. Sopranos and Mad Men both have a humor and a subtle element of camp that elevates them for me.

What, no fuckin ziti?

NOSEY!!?? Eat your MANI-GOTT!

Oh, I totally understand what you are saying, R89, and I agree. Tony's family constantly used his status as a mob boss to get things for themselves. That's why I think they would have been better off without him--in fact, everyone he ever met could say that.

I think that was the point of Season 6, part II--we really see the corrosive influence of Tony Soprano on those nearest and dearest. The clearest evidence of this is his relationships with his two sons, Christopher and AJ, as well as with his daughter. He literally destroys Christopher, and he condemns AJ and Meadow to a life that will never be free of mob influence.

The best thing that could have happened to his family--and I say this as someone who adores the character and his contradictions--would have been if Uncle Jun's hit man had taken Tony out in Season 1. They would all have had to stand on their own two feet, and they'd have been better for it.

Loved the show, and I liked the ambiguous ending. It was rumored at the time that HBO approved of an ambiguous ending because it left open the possibility of a future movie (like Sex & The City and Entourage got.)

Unfortunately Gandolfini's death put an end to that ever happening.

What a loss that was. Tony Soprano was a tv character for the ages, but he had acting chops to do more. He was really good on Broadway in "God of Carnage." He seemed really well liked too; the other cast members were devastated by his death.

Looking back at Season 6 part 2, it's easy to see the signs of ill-health in Gandolfini. Besides his girth, his skin was gray even under the make-up, and his breathing sounded like a labored locomotive. Given his weight, drinking, and cocaine use, it's no wonder his heart gave out when he was only 51.

Gandolfini attributed some of his issues to playing Tony Soprano. He told Chase that he couldn't seem to shower enough to wash Tony off of him. I wonder how he would feel about his beloved only son taking on a role that caused him such anguish.

R91, there's actually a ton of humor in Breaking Bad. It is, admittedly, very "hetero", but it's there.

David Chase let it slip that Tony did die in the final episode.

[quote] “Yes, I think I had that death scene around two years before the end,” he said.... “Tony was going to get called to a meeting with Johnny Sack in Manhattan, and he was going to go back through the Lincoln Tunnel for this meeting, and it was going to go black there and you never saw him again as he was heading back, the theory being that something bad happens to him at the meeting,” he continued. “But we didn’t do that.”

[quote] Co-author Matt Zoller Seitz caught the slip and called Chase out on it. “You realize, of course, that you just referred to that as a death scene,” he told The Sopranos creator.

[quote] Realizing his mistake, Chase took a long pause. “Fuck you guys,” he replied.

Loved the Sopranos (and Lorraine Bracco), but do have a few criticisms:

Dr. Melfi was unnecessary and a cheap exposition tool. (Tony sits there and says what his motivations are in life, etc.) Lorraine Bracco was not convincing as a psychiatrist.

Some bad (unskilled) actors: Big Pussy actor, Meadow & AJ actors. Jackie Junior actor was hot but terrible as well.

Melfis sister was terrible as well as gay Vito.

Vito;s gay storyline was so forced. And I don't believe he would be dumb enough to blow someone at work (relatively) out in the open.

You don’t know gay men very well, R101.

Agree that making Vito the gay family member felt forced. Like when Roseanne’s mother was gay.

Vito's story was fine except that we didn't have to follow him to New Hampshire. Having him disappear and then come back, telling Tony that he couldn't leave the life, would have worked just as well and spared us Joseph Gannascoli's terrible acting.

Christopher would have been more interesting as the gay family member. Both Adriana (C's GF) and Carmela pinged to me.

Also, you had two older, Italian men who never married: Uncle Junior and Paulie Walnuts. Why were they never married? Kind of unusual in an old school Italian Mafia family.

Tony Sirico would never in a million years play a gay character.

R102, I know a lot of gay guys would do that but a guy who is in the mob? I would think they'd be wayyyyy more discrete about it.

Vito was also seen in a gay leather bar.

R108, right, totally believable. Not!

Here is a good read for those who really want to spend time going down the rabbit hole.

As a depressive I am really in tune with the melancholy air of much of The Sopranos.

Much like lightning never strikes twice, isn't it amazing that David Chase can helm The Sopranos and Matthew Weiner can bring us Mad Men but neither have done anything of note since?

I never expected David Chase to do much more after Sopranos. He had a great career which culminated in the Sopranos. He was 62 (now 75) when it ended, and probably is enjoying life at a slower pace with a nice amount of money. Matthew Weiner did produce the Romanoffs, which is excellent but not on the level of Mad Men.

Chase doesn't like TV and has never respected the medium even though it's where he made his mark. He always wanted to be a filmmaker like Scorsese. He walked away from TV with his Sopranos money and never looked back.

As for Matthew Weiner, he tried to come back with the Romanoffs, but that show hasn't generated any buzz.

[quote] Vito's story was fine except that we didn't have to follow him to New Hampshire. Having him disappear and then come back, telling Tony that he couldn't leave the life, would have worked just as well and spared us Joseph Gannascoli's terrible acting.

Completely agree! For me, the NH part of the story was the one major misstep in the whole series.

I thought one aspect of the GAY storyline that was NOT realistic- that hunky diner/volunteer fireman guy being interested in the OBESE Vito.

"I loved Adriana. Also, I was very moist for the FBI guy Dwight Harris. He and Tony had a lot in common."

R38...Dwight Harris (aka Matt Servitto) getting naked for his nephew in the short film HEIGHT OF COOL.

Another...

.....

.....

Servitto must be the actor from The Sopranos who's gotten nude the most.

Servitto nude again.

Looking back at Season 6 part 2, it's easy to see the signs of ill-health in Gandolfini. Besides his girth, his skin was gray even under the make-up, and his breathing sounded like a labored locomotive. Given his weight, drinking, and cocaine use, it's no wonder his heart gave out when he was only 51.

I recall an interview asking Chase about Gandolfini and his temperament/personal issues; he recounted a story in which Tony was supposed to slam the fridge door in anger & during the scene, Gandolfini slammed it so hard & so many times, he broke the door off the hinges. Its what made him so good as Tony, but what made him so unhealthy as a person.

So between his own personal issues & playing Tony, it sounded like Gandolfini was a walking time bomb.

He was OBESE. He was almost slim when the show went on the air in 1999. He gained weight thru the years. After the show went off the air he continued to gain weight. Overeating and drinking contributed to his demise.

What cocaine use, R123? Proof of that claim?

Google it R125. Gandolfini admitted to it.

I do remember Gandolfini's heavy breathing. Not surprised about the coke.

[QUOTE] Much like lightning never strikes twice, isn't it amazing that David Chase can helm The Sopranos and Matthew Weiner can bring us Mad Men but neither have done anything of note since?

Considering how much they give us in these shows, is it really a surprise? 86 hour-long episodes. I mean what Chase is akin to churning out two decades of great movies, one year after another. We would consider that one of the most remarkable runs in Hollywood history.

The reason you can’t even make a good mafia movie anymore is because Chase & Co. explored so many different nooks and crannies that it’s almost impossible to make something with a fresh perspective. Whatever you try to do, chances are it was already in The Sopranos.

Didn't he have coke in his system when he died?

R112

It's interesting you say that. I attended a story structure seminar once.

The presenter said that most writers, even great ones, have only one theme. With Charles Dickens, for example, it was the father/son relationship.

Someone ought to start a thread on this, but I can't cause I'm a cheap whore.

I've never understood why fans can only enjoy one show. I love The Wire and The Sopranos equally. And Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Friday Night Lights, etc. I am just grateful that so many amazing shows exist.

Back to The Sopranos: What I noticed is that a lot of people thought the show was always dark and edgy, but it wasn't. It had so many hilarious scenes, like Christopher's intervention which was great from start to finish. "When I came in one morning there you were with your head in the toilet. Your hair was touching the toilet water. Disgusting. I said my piece, Chrissy!"

Or the entire episode about Paulie and Chris getting lost in the woods, looking for the Russian. Comedy gold!

The hardest scene to watch for me was not even a very violent one. But as a child of divorced parents, the Tony/Carmela fight in season 4 was just brutal. That one hit so close to home. When Carmela finally tells him about Furio, the look on Tony's face is astounding. They deserved all the awards that year, amazing.

The hardest scene to watch for me was not even a very violent one.

I think the hardest scenes were when Tony came face to face with who he really is & it genuinely pained him; the episode when he takes Meadow on a college visit and he sees the quote: No man can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude without finally getting bewildered as to which one is true. Granted, those moments never lasted long with Tony, but it felt so real - those moments when you come to some painful realization about yourself or your life that cannot be denied.

It’s a Porsche Cayenne, like the pepper

I loved Carmela's prissy viciousness. What a bitch to come to the devastated, broke Ginny Sack and show off the new Porsche Carmela's still-rich and powerful husband just gave her. Impressively cunty.

And then Tony forced the incarcerated Jonny Sack to sell his and Ginny's lovely home at a huge discount to Janice. Remember the scene where Janice is walking through the home with the decorator discussing the changes she's going to make, while Ginny is still LIVING in the house?

The Sopranos were fun to watch but terrible, terrible human beings.

I thought Michael Imperioli was fucking hot.

A friend of mine once told me that he stopped watching the show because there was not enough Artie.

Yes, there is someone out there who watched The Sopranos for Artie Bucco. Wow....

I think it was Chase who said on a normal network show, the main character would be Artie and Tony would be the ominous recurring supporting character. Remember, before Tony Soprano, networks were convinced that audiences would never accept a character like Tony as the lead. Chase rejected the network offers for the Sopranos because they kept wanting to soften Tony's character. They even wanted to make him an FBI informant from the very beginning so that he was secretly a 'good' guy. Chase said no fucking way and went to HBO.

[QUOTE] They even wanted to make him an FBI informant from the very beginning so that he was secretly a 'good' guy. Chase said no fucking way and went to HBO.

And on we go with this thing of ours.

What a lucky coincidence to find this thread as I just started rewatching last week. I just finished season 3, I forgot how much I loved Junior singing at the restaurant (and how much I hate Meadow). I remember downloading the song off of Limewire or something after I saw it the first time.

Any love for Father Phil? I loved his plot line and Carmela's odd obsession with him.

And I really missed seeing Nancy Marchand as Livia. Another sad premature death.

I hear she didn’t suffer. And for that, we should be grateful.

How about the Russian with the stump leg? That was one tough bitch.

R144, she was one of my favorite side characters.

"Don't push me to edge!"

- The guy who killed 17 Czechoslovakians

[quote] It had so many hilarious scenes, like Christopher's intervention which was great from start to finish. "When I came in one morning there you were with your head in the toilet. Your hair was touching the toilet water. Disgusting. I said my piece, Chrissy!"

Agree. Sopranos made me laugh more than anything else. I got hooked into it after watching "Pine Barrens." The intervention scene was definitely hilarious.

Adriana projectile puking on the FBI's table was classic!

The scene that made me feel the worst was Adrianna's death. I never liked Christopher but I hated him after that

Michael Imperioli...I would have fucked him in half then.

YOU STOLE A WOMAN'S LEG!!

Adriana was too stupid to live.

Adriana was too stupid to live.

Adriana seemed like this daft silly character up the point that she's flipped by the FBI; after that she's sort of like a lamb to the slaughter - someone who lacks the wits and savviness (partly due to her good heartedness and character) to survive in that shark tank.

While Adriana's death made me sad, too, she was no angel. She was a basically a junior league Carmela, happily reaping the rewards of other people's suffering. The shoes!

For me, the funniest scene in the series was Livia's wake. The tension between Tony and Janice, the little old lady who claimed Livia as her best friend (because she was always the first to tell you when someone died), Christopher's drug-induced ramblings. All gold.

R125 it's well known and accepted. He would disappear for weeks at a time.

People forget or don't know that The Sopranos was one of the funniest shows ever!

The production design was fantastic too. The Sopranos house was so North Jersey Italian tacky. You could smell the ziti through the tv!

My grandmother was just like Livia Soprano. It's all a big nothing.

In the intervention scene, Christopher telling Tony he would have an heart attack by the time he was 50. Made me laugh then, now it's kinda sad.

My favorite guy was Uncle Junior, I think. Those glasses!

Paraphrased: "If you're gonna lie to me tell me there's a couple of blondes in the car who wanna tongue my balls"

LOL R160!!!!! YES! I loved his face and those glasses. That was funny on its own.

My favorite line was when Uncle June fell in the tub

"Your mother's CUNT!"

He was such a foul mouth too.

I worked with Dominic Chianese (Uncle Jun) about 15 years ago and he was the sweetest and most elegant gentleman. Actually, very refined, nothing like the character he played.

Also, worked with Nancy Marchand in the 1990s. Now she was a real ball-buster. But I loved her. Incredibly smart woman with no patience for fools. She was also so much more elegant than Livia. I was so happy for her that she had this late career attention and yet it was for playing such a vulgar woman. But I hope she died happy.

R162- That is what I have read about him- A very intelligent, classy guy! Love that.

Even though they spent the last couple seasons revealing what a terrible man Tony Soprano truly is, I would’ve been heartbroken to see him get his brains blown out in front of Carmela and the kids. I’d probably never watch the last episode whenever I binge the series.

[quote]I worked with Dominic Chianese (Uncle Jun) about 15 years ago

He also played Johnny Ola in Godfather II.

That was Chase's thinking too, R164. It irritated him that many viewers seemed to be calling for Tony's brains on the wall when they'd spent years cheering him on. He denied them the bloody catharsis.

I know some people who watch shows that never really fall in love with characters, so I can see them wanting a bloody end just for the spectacle of it all. Like co-workers who saw Game of Thrones and thought the Red Wedding episode was “awesome.” It’s like, were you really watching the show? I don’t understand these people.

One of my old roommates worked behind the scenes on "The Sopranos." She loved Gandolfini as did everyone on that set. He was a great guy. RIP.

I don’t blame Chase for being somewhat exasperated by the show's fanbase. A lot of people loved the show (parts of it, anyway) while clearly not understanding it.

I always marvel at fans of things like The Sopranos, Scarface or Wall Street who fail to understand that they’re watching bad guys; all those 80s kids who thought Tony Montana was a hero and that "greed is good" was a mantra to live by.

Antiheroes have that "anti" in their title for a reason.

But they also have “hero” in their title for a reason, as well. While they may be ethically compromised, they still possess admirable traits that lead fans to cheer for them. David Chase knew the success of his show depended on him creating a character who Americans would welcome into their living rooms and bedrooms Sundays at 9pm, otherwise we wouldn’t watch it. You think we were tuning in for Agent Harris?

Tony was the protagonist of the show. It was all about who antagonized Tony and how he reacted. He was not the hero of the story.

Then who was the hero, R171?

Tony was absolutely the anti-hero of the show. He was also the protagonist. It’s possible to be both, and he was. He was so unique as a character. The best written character, I think, in modern tv.

I think he was the protagonist, the anti-hero and the hero. He was all of the above. We were rooting for him during his various conflicts for a reason. Did anyone watch Mr. Ruggerio’s Neighborhood hoping that FBI wiretap would bear enough fruit to imprison Tony for life? No, we saw the FBI as pests invading the home of a family. And we laughed when Meadow took the lamp from the basement to school. Were we happy when Carmela left Tony? No, we were as disheartened as the kids were and relieved when they got back together. Don’t blame me, I didn’t write these storylines. They could’ve easily made Tony into a more repulsive man. Instead they made him a murderous, philandering yet relatable teddy bear who Americans could grow to love and that’s why the show was successful. So how could Chase be perplexed as to why we don’t want to see him get his head blown off in front of his family?

Not everyone fell in love with Tony and not everyone rooted for him. 'Hero or anti-hero' designation is entirely subjective.

R175, but I think nearly all viewers did. In fact, I think the viewers who didn’t see him that way quickly lost interest in the series.

I'm the fat-free Cool Whip on Ginny Sack's enormous bowl of fruit salad.

I didn't like the final episode. David Chase already admitted Tony got killed in the diner.

After Bobby Bacala's (and others') spectacular deaths in the model train store, etc., it's not plausible that Tony & family would be dining out like this. David Chase had an unmitigated need to portray Tony as a good father and, IMO, this "out with the family" scene was to serve that purpose.

In reality, Tony would have been killed in a different way, especially so soon after all the other killings.

was the fat guy as big a coke head as rumored?

Many a straight women I know wanted to be banged by Tony. No matter what they say, a powerful, masculine brute is a major turn on for women.

And most gay men R180!

I didn't find Tony Soprano that attractive. Little Paulie was a dumb guy (as a character), but I thought he was handsome. Actor is Carl Capotorto.

Even the straightest, most heterosexual, macho tough guys wanted to fuck Jim.

"For me it was Silvio killing Adriana."

r21 Yes , heartbreaking, These people were horrible sociopaths

I liked the Adriana character a lot, but her getting killed off was inevitable (FBI informant). It wasn't heartbreaking, IMO, just a bummer that she was no longer going to be a character. I liked her having IBS, wearing white pants, huge hair, etc. She actually had an awesome body.

Adriana being killed off was the most emotional for me. Yes, it was always going to happen, but that "road trip" on which she slowly realises what's going to happen was brutal.

tAINT NO body want dat fat blubbery cock in em....gets real man!!!!

Speak fo yo self, R187.

I would have happily banged James Gandolfini.

I thought the actor who played Phil was really handsome.

Phil Leotardo or Father Phil, R189?

R190, Phil Leotardo...even though he was like 80, he was still a very good looking guy.

Phil Leotardo was a great character and said one of the most memorable lines (re: Tony S.): "And I took his fat fucking hand in friendship." (When Tony visited Phil L. while Phil was in the hospital.)

There’s no scraps in my scrapbook.

When Janice said that Ralph "bottoms from the top" because he controlled being fucked it made me think of at least 6 guys that I have been with.

You know what that crazy bitch was into? She wanted to stick a dildo up my ass, make believe she was pimping me out. I told her get the fuck outta here! Whole family’s nuts.

Ralph was a great character. I liked the final fight with Tony re: Ralph supposedly killing Pie-O-My, the horse. I liked when Ralph sprayed Raid in Tony's face and insulted Tony about how much meat Tony ate (while getting incensed about the death of a horse).

R196, I hated how Ralph treated Rachel. And then, of course, he goes and kills her.

It’s my fault she’s a klutz?

[bold]#TeamAdriana[/bold]

FBI AGENT 1: After you make bail you can explain to Tony Soprano why you brought an undercover federal agent into his home during Sunday dinner.

FBI AGENT 2: We’ll probably never hear about it, though. Chances are you and Christopher will just disappear.

ADRIANA: [italic](huuuuuurrrll)

[quote]R48 that actress was so good. Aside from Law and Order: Criminal Intent, was she ever in anything big?

You’re asking who Annabella Sciorra is?

R200, holy fucking shit, I;ve seen that movie many times and for some reason I never put it all together (that it was her).

Sciorra’s special actress, and very beautiful. It’s really sad that Harvey Weinstein fucked up her career.

She’s also good in JUNGLE FEVER, and a film I love called ROMEO IS BLEEDING. She doesn’t have the showiest role, but it’s a cool credit.

[quote]r201 holy fucking shit, I;ve seen that movie many times and for some reason I never put it all together (that it was her).

Well, don’t feel too bad... that and The Sopranos were shot over a decade apart.

She does look different, and they’re also very different characters : )

I LOVED it when I first watched it. Basically hated it upon rewatch, though it was okay as long as Livia was around. I stopped just short of two seasons.

Livia is such a cunt it’s just unreal

I wonder if they named the character Livia , like Livia in I Claudius.

Of course they did, r206.

"Can't you be a good Catholic for 15 FUCKING minutes on your Confirmation?"

Carmella - No One Swears Like a Catholic - Soprano after AJ was found smoking pot in the garage at his Confirmation party.

Carmela's fight with Tony in "Whitecaps" - epic. She read him for filth and he came back and read her pretty well too. She knew this life and what she was getting into and how her lifestyle was sustained, yet she wanted to play victim.

Who knew all this time you wanted Tracy and Hepburn?

So you've had a one-legged one now? That's nice.

[quote]Livia is such a cunt it’s unreal

David Chase based the Livia character on his own mother.

I gotta watch TV to figure out the world?

This thread got me rewatching. I’m on season 2 now

My taste in men has changed. I used to only be attracted to Michael Imperioli but now I’m finding several of the guidos on the show hot

Edie had a better character in Oz. Carmela was so passive.

And the show never recovered from the death of Nancy Marchand.

Carmela’s “passivity” was a constant, conscious choice, R216. She was smart, and she could do anything she wanted (including getting away with cheating on Tony), but she was greedy. She wanted the status, the power, the money. The show’s portrayal of her corruption was one of the best things about it.

I adored “Nurse Jackie”. And without giving away any spoilers, it ended the way it should have.

It would’ve been hysterical if Adriana was really revealed as a smart FBI agent who took them all down.

James Gandolfini’s wheezing was annoying. It got worse season after season.

R217 Meh, her Doctor told her the truth, she stayed, yawn. Diane Whittlesey was far more fun. And conflicted.

I don’t even remember Falco being on OZ. But that was before I met her as Carmella, so I guess she just flew under the radar for me.

I do remember the tough female guard who kept forcing that awful prisoner to fuck her.

#MixedEmotions

R222 Ha, that was Claire Howell. Edie was fucking assdick McManus and shot Scott Ross in the cock during the riot as he was blackmailing her to bring in cigarettes. She fucked off to England, but actually left to do The Sopranos.

She wanted the status, the power, the money. The show’s portrayal of her corruption was one of the best things about it.

Agreed; aside from screwing around on her, Tony generally didn't openly provoke Carmela, but I loved the times when he called her out for hypocrisy: she only played the Catholic card when it was useful, she loved the status & the $$ as much as he did, and she knew exactly what the deal was but did it anyway. Her fury at him when he did that was a sight to behold.

I loved that dangerous little game Carmela played where she stole money out of the duck feed bin and left the fingernail next to the keys. The two of them knew what the other was doing, but they sat down in the kitchen in the morning and had coffee like everything was okay. Chilling and hilarious.

Remember when Christopher punched Lauren Bacall in the face?

Lauren Bacall was a shrew. Someone on staff must have suggested her for that as a joke.

Where were her bodyguards?

Lauren Bacall would never had carried that basket herself.

Neither would Buck.

[quote] Gandolfini’s son Michael will star as the young Tony in The Many Saints of Newark, the prequel to The Sopranos coming sometime 2021

I’m cringing already. Casting him just because he’s his son? Doesn’t even look that much like his dad.

[quote] I liked the Adriana character a lot, but her getting killed off was inevitable (FBI informant). It wasn't heartbreaking,

You’re nuts.

Junior chowed box

Michael looks a lot like his dad.

I disagree, R234,

I agree, R234. He has his father's exact features.

Who would be cast as young Carmela? Just going by her face, I'd pick Anna Sophia Robb. I've never seen her in anything so I don't know if she can act.

I watched the whole series. I should preface by saying I am Italian-American myself. My family had the following people a police officer, a mobster, two hardware engineers, an inventor. I looked at the first two and said there's no way in hell I would do either - closest I came was working for the states top law enforcement agency. But I chose the engineering side in software.

The strong resemblance between James Gandolfini and his son is even clearer when Michael was a pudgy adolescent. I mean, look at him--that's mini-Tony,

I think it would have been better if they waited another 5 years for Michael to be a little older.. However, I am particularly excited for the film.

And I think Vera Farmiga as Livia Soprano is going to be phenomenal. (They have tried to keep it hush hush but its been clear all along that she is playing Livia).

Its kind of funny, The Sopranos one chance at the movies, and its ends up primarily as an HBO Max film.. I would love to see this one in a theatre. But I will not -

It's surprising that they chose to make a movie instead of turning it into a series. Still, aside from Gamdolfini there is a lot of handsome men in the cast.

That's a very Tony-like expression in R241. It gives me hope that Michael can capture some of his father's excellence in the role. I agree that he's a little young to be dealing with such a high-profile part, though, especially given the toll that part took on his father.

My guess is that if he works in the role and the film does well, a Sopranos prequel series will quickly follow.

And Vera Farmiga as Livia is PERFECT.

I know he’s old but Johnny Sac is hot

I'd be down for these two to tag team me, then Furio can jump in.

Furio was hot too

DL Fav Billy Magnussen plays old school Pauley Walnuts... that’s a stretch, no?

Paulie Gualtieri thinks Billy Magnussen is half a fag.

Johnny Sac was handsome and I appreciated that he loved his fat mess of a wife and was sweet to her.

Rewatching the Vito and Johnnycakes episodes now. So many gays in this small town and NONE of them would realistically fuck Vito.

I mean, it's offensive as fuck. This jabroni somehow rolls into a small town with the world's only hot chubby chaser and here I am sitting in Queens, fat as the king of sea cows, jerking off to thots on Twitter. There's no justice in this world.

Yeah r249 I remember thinking how Johnnycakes might fuck. Vito when he’s hammered but a relationship would be out of the question.

You know, the Johnny Cakes actor killed himself : (

I always have wondered if the show's creator and executive produce David Chase has a deep-seated animosity toward very good-looking men. It seemed he killed off every handsome bit actor, and in a gruesome way.

My favorite character was Johnny Sack. Uncle Junior was good too. Such talented actors.

I had no idea R252! What a gruesome way to go, and in Sunset Park no less. Just awful.

At least he's buried in a beautiful cemetery.

"Pine Barrens" (S.3) episode discussed on latest edition of "Talking Sopranos." (Hosted by Michael Imperioli & Steve Schirripa.) Steve Buscemi, who directed the episode, as guest.

"Pine Barrens" got me started watching the Sopranos. On rewatch, I don't like the B-plot involving Meadow & Jackie Junior.

Buscemi got his teeth worked on! Looks different!

[quote] I always have wondered if the show's creator and executive produce David Chase has a deep-seated animosity toward very good-looking men. It seemed he killed off every handsome bit actor, and in a gruesome way.

R253, interesting. Who else are you talking about?

The younger guys who got killed: Jackie Junior (shot in head), Matt Bevilacqua (Lillo Brancato), Brendan (shot while in the bathtub).

Older guys: Eugene Pontecorvo (hanged self, sad), Gigi Cestone (died on toilet).

One of the hottest guys on the show was Albert Barese and he didn’t get wacked. Didn’t get wacked.

Wow, that guy at R259 looks like an old school movie star. Very outstanding for the Sopranos crews.

[quote]r255 I had no idea! What a gruesome way to go, and in Sunset Park no less. Just awful.

[quote]r256 At least he's buried in a beautiful cemetery.

It’s so odd to me that he killed himself right in the middle of the run of a stage play. Theater actors usually have a deeply rooted “the show must go on” mentality. They’re even fined if they’re late signing in for the half hour call before curtain time.

It’s obvious he was distressed, but honestly, I don’t think I’ve heard of another stage actor intentionally killing themselves while appearing in a stage play. They may feel like it, but I assume they just wait a few weeks or months until the play closes and the company breaks up (?)

New York Times

———-

No One Talks Media-Speak Like Product Pushers (By Andy Webster Dec. 16, 2008)

Jim Neu, a veteran of experimental theater and a standby at La MaMa, has struck again with “Gang of Seven,” a brief but engaging torrent of intriguing ideas and dizzying wordplay. Largely a conversation among seven archetypes seated onstage, the play raises a heady froth of provocation within its hourlong running time.

The assembled are members of a focus group — Raymond, an aging wag in a bow tie (Byron Thomas); the refined Dawn (Mary Shultz), who fears the group is losing its “veil of anonymity”; the corporate curmudgeon Steve (Mr. Neu); the free-spirited Sh’rell (Chris Maresca); the entrepreneurial hustler Michael (John Costelloe); the naïve teenager Sandy (Kristine Lee); and Frank, a working-class stiff (Tony Nunziata). They congratulate themselves on their authority to confer status on things never made entirely clear: products, say, or political candidates. Together, they delight in the fabrication of reality, the manufacture of perception, and employ a baffling marketing-speak (“veneer management,” “facade-ism” and “rumorizing”).

Their smug solidarity is tested by flare-ups of independence and spontaneity, embodied at one point by a mild flirtation between Ms. Maresca and Mr. Costelloe, but things eventually right themselves, if these electronic-media-addled consumers can ever be well adjusted.

“Uncommitted is the new black, and I’ve learned to be proud,” Ms. Lee says. Utterly compliant, they have been hidden from their own feelings: “I can barely remember the last time I felt so close to myself!” Mr. Nunziata says tearfully. Ultimately, the play turns to theatrical convention but invests it with new meaning.

“Gang of Seven” rewards repeat viewing — once is not enough to savor the abundant verbal pirouettes. The actors are appealing, well served by Mr. Neu’s frequent director, Keith McDermott, and conveying a palpable rapport. Some are familiar hands on Neu productions, and others are new, but discerning the veterans from the rookies isn’t easy. (Ms. Shultz and Mr. Neu are especially good.) By the end you may not have retained all of the play’s notions, but your brain will be abuzz with them.

Almost all the young men associated with the Soprano family were killed. Brendan, Matthew and Sean, Jackie Jr. and his friends Carlo and Dino. All the ones who could have made up the next generation and become future-boss Christopher's capos died before they could even be made. The only ones who made it through were Paulie Jr. and Benny, and even they were seriously injured during Season 6 and might not have much impact in the future.

Perhaps the point is that the mob really is dying--the young generation is no dumber or more impulsive than the previous generation, but the old ways have broken down and they are no longer protected by the old rules or the old guys. It is Tony himself, after all, who murders his own heir when he smothers Christopher.

It’s kind of pathetic Gandolfini’s son’s claim to fame will be playing his dead father. He’ll command an incredible salary, profiting off his dad’s death.

Let’s see what they pay the new Carmella (1/10th as much?)

[quote] Perhaps the point is that the mob really is dying--the young generation is no dumber or more impulsive than the previous generation, but the old ways have broken down and they are no longer protected by the old rules or the old guys. It is Tony himself, after all, who murders his own heir when he smothers Christopher.

I think that was very much the point. Toward the end, Tony was holed up in that tiny house with all those guys we didn’t even know (aside from Paulie). That's all he had left of his circle: bit players and old men.

There was also that terrific scene where the NY guy was talking and walking in Little Italy and by the end of his conversation he looked up and he was in Chinatown. (If you’re a NYer, that scene rang true. Little Italy used to be a neighborhood and now, it’s one block; Chinatown on the other hand has grown.) Their world is literally shrinking around them.

In one of the early Sopranos episodes, IIRC, Tony told Dr. Melfi that he felt like he got into the business (organized crime) late / past its prime, past the heyday.

R16, I agree. It was clear to me that Tony and his entire family were killed at the end of the final episode. A lot of wishful thinkers denied it and a lot of people that were too literal and couldn't read between the lines didn't get the last scene, but I always thought it was pretty obvious what went down.

Some of the dialogue in this show is bogus and corny and it makes Italians out to be huge, tacky egotistical losers. I'm sort of offended, as someone that's part Italian(and a member of more than one criminal enterprise)but at the same time, I tell myself that's how Jersey is and I'm not from there.

I agree that Tony was assassinated at the end, but not Carmela and AJ. Families don't get touched, and killing them wouldn't improve anything or solve anything. Once he came out of the bathroom, the guy in the Member's Only jacket had a clear shot at Tony, who was sitting alone on that side of the booth. That's why Meadow's lateness was such a big deal. If Meadow had been on time, she'd have been seated next to Tony and blocked the clear shot.

[quote] I agree that Tony was assassinated at the end, but not Carmela and AJ. Families don't get touched, and killing them wouldn't improve anything or solve anything.

If a family member had been in the way, they would've been shot. IMO.

[QUOTE] In one of the early Sopranos episodes, IIRC, Tony told Dr. Melfi that he felt like he got into the business (organized crime) late / past its prime, past the heyday.

That was the pilot episode. It’s been a recurring theme from the very beginning.

But remember that it still afforded Tony a million dollar home, keeping thousands of dollars of cash in his pocket at all times as “walking around money.” The rest of the members of his crime family also made enough to afford comfortable lives (at least for people who don’t work). Look at the house that Johnny Sack bought and he was just an underboss—imagine how much money was getting kicked up to Carmine. Millions! And remember that Tony remarked to Christopher in season 6 episode 1 that the Lupertazzi crime family had 200 soldiers on the street. This was well after Rudy Giuliani and the FBI supposedly “took down the mafia.” And that was just one of the five families in New York. The Mafia may have its ups and downs, and bad bosses who can lead them in the wrong direction, but they’re not going anywhere. If Tony was wacked in that final moment of the series, somebody in North Jersey stepped up, took the reins and now they’re the ones collecting those fat envelopes in the backroom at the Bing.

It's strongly implied that Patsy Parisi will be the next boss. That means Meadow will still have serious mob connections as the wife of Patsy's oldest son. However, since Patrick Jr. is a mob lawyer rather than a mobster, Meadow won't live with the constant stress her mother did. Nor will she be bothered by her husband's sleazy clients. It's a perfect setup for her, really.

Tony's death comes at the right time for the rest of his family. Meadow is getting married and won't need Tony's money or protection (especially considering who she is marrying). AJ has been set up in a nice, safe, only mob-adjacent business that will see him end as a low-level movie producer who, despite only being a little fish in the industry's huge pond, will see him well-off and primed to bang all the vapid blondes he wants. Carmela won't lose her house or her business due to an asset seizure from the Feds, as Tony is killed before indictments are handed down. She'll also get the millions he stashed overseas through the Russians. You could even say that Tony himself is better off--he was miserable and bound to get moreso the older he got, just like Livia.

If it was a Russian Mob hit, the family members are meaningless and expendable. Russian Mob don't give shit.

I've always thought it was Patsy, in league with New York. New York, now headed by Butchie, was sick of Tony and pissed about how Phil's hit went down. The guy in the MOJ also looked distinctly Italian. Patsy took out Tony and then probably gave away Tony's daughter at her wedding to Patrick Jr. Cold, but the way things work.

Bobby Bacala's kids did end up with Janice after his death, right? That's the real tragedy of the show, them being raised by Livia 2.0.

Bobby Jr. noped the fuck out of there--Janice mentions in her last scene that he's planning to live with his grandparents. Unfortunately, Sofia is stuck because Domenica loves her big sister, and Janice says ominously that there's no way she's letting Sofia get out of her house.

R268, I think the fam were killed too because that way nobody would be testifying against the killer(s), seeking revenge later on, asking for money or holding it against the culprits, who they all knew well and personally.

Yeah, there's usually the implied policy that family members don't get fucked with or murdered, but Tony had already broken that rule by secretly killing Chris, a member of his family and his set. I think by this point in the show, people were more than willing to transgress if it best suited their agenda, and in that instance, I think it did.

Let’s take a moment to admire the beauty of Sean Gismonte walking around in his underwear when that fuckin’ zip Furio showed up. He was def the hottest guy on there.

The rule is about civilian family members--wives, children, adult relatives who aren't in the mafia. Tony reiterates that rule in the last episodes when Carmela is worried about the war with New York. That's one reason New York was pissed at Tony--he traumatized Phil's family with the botched hit on Phil in front of them. That explains why New York might have had Tony killed in front of his family as retribution for what happened to Phil. There would be no reason for them to kill Carmela, AJ, and Meadow, who are all civilians.

Also, there will be no retribution from the women or from AJ, whom everyone knows is a depressive wimp. They will be so shocked at seeing Tony's brains splatter all over the table that it's doubtful they could testify against the shooter. Even if they could, the shooter is unlikely to be anyone they know even if he was sent by people they know.

My favorite guy was Christopher's junkie friend who spoke Italian. Shame about his cheesy Wikipedia pic

[quote] The rule is about civilian family members--wives, children, adult relatives who aren't in the mafia. Tony reiterates that rule in the last episodes when Carmela is worried about the war with New York.

IMO, the operative words are "Carmela is worried." Tony often told Carmela some bullshit in order to get her to shut up. E.g., the time T&C expected an FBI raid of their house and were hiding stuff in a ceiling panel. Tony told Carmela "give me your ring" (diamond engagement ring) and Carmela said: "What, is this stolen, too?" Tony said of course not, but obviously it was stolen or fell off a truck.

[QUOTE] My favorite guy was Christopher's junkie friend who spoke Italian. Shame about his cheesy Wikipedia pic

I’ll always most remember him most playing Jeffrey Jones’ gay son in that awful John Leguizamo movie “The Pest.” It was one of the first times I’d seen a gay character in a major motion picture.

I hated Ralph Cifaretto maybe more than any fictional character and I’ll never forget how satisfying it was when Tony killed him.

R283, I agree. I know a guy that's just like him in real life. Obnoxious and gross.

The characters on the Sopranos are too schmaltzy, dated and whiny for me in general though.

I never could stand Ralph and thought I was the only one. On rewatch, though, he's hilarious.

The more you rewatch it, the more you come to appreciate the awesomeness of Ralph.

Why was I born handsome and not rich?

Joey Pants did a fantastic job with Ralph. He and David Proval as Richie Aprile were the two best Tony nemeses IMO.

"The characters on the Sopranos are too schmaltzy, dated and whiny for me in general though."

What a great insight you have into characters from a 20-year-old TV show.

We get it, you are not like the other Italians.

Whatever, you're probably full of horrible, old-fashioned musty Italian tile and so are your meat deli owning, conservative, "muzza'rell"-making, Catholic bridge-and-tunnel relatives.

Boomer.

I just finished the series from the start, and felt an immense sadness once it was over. It was a great show and I was sorry to see it end again, after so many years.

Every time I’ve watched it r290 I’ve felt the same way. I’m on season 4 now

After season 3, the show has an air of increasing solemnity--a sad, autumnal quality. The last season, of course, is almost operatic in its melancholy. I have a hard time watching those last three episodes.

I've run out of shows to watch, maybe I'll rewatch this...

[QUOTE] I just finished the series from the start, and felt an immense sadness once it was over. It was a great show and I was sorry to see it end again, after so many years.

It’s like ending a great book. You spent so many hours with the characters from day to day, they practically became a part of your life. Now it’s over and you’re wondering “What am I going to do now?” There’s nothing worse than those post-binge blues.

when is the movie coming out?

It was originally supposed to come out this year, but like everything else it's been put off until 2021. I'm not sure which month.

R292. YES! So brilliantly put. I was just watching Season 4 and basically said the same thing to myself. In Season 4, it was like a day of reckoning to these characters and to the audience. Adriana was kind of the connection between the two. It was clear that this lifestyle, behavior, and show could not go on forever... Tony, Carmela, Adriana, Christopher- they were all suffering from severe drug use, depression, financial difficulties- It was a transition to the end. It is funny- Season 4 seemed "boring" to me at the time (minus the death of Ralph) and it was actually very, very good- And FUNNY. Check out the crew prank calling Paulie's "motha"- NUCCI! (Oh my god and those CUNTBAG old ladies at the retirement home- they were hilarious) Season 4 is underrated and truly a bridge to the end.

And guys!!!

Have any of you checked out "Talking Sopranos" on Youtube????

Christopha and Bobby Baccala are reviewing episode by episode and having amazing guests -

It is like a Christmas Gift from Sopranos Heaven.

YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT- Trust me. XOXOXOXOXOXO

I'll admit that I have been very hesitant to check out Talking Sopranos, in the same way that I am suspicious of Kevin from The Office that did a podcast.... just another actor capitalizing on their big role. Edie Falco played other roles after this, the other guys that are clinging to it seem kinda sad.

R299- I promise you- Its not like that at all-

You can tell that these actors know just how lucky they were and it was a once in a lifetime experience. And they have said as much. Check it out-

I just discovered this "channel" and have not watched them in order- So far I have watched the episodes with Aida Turturro(a sweetheart), David Proval (what a NICE man) and Lorraine Bracco (eccentric and funny- with great stories) They are all earnest and respectful of the show. Its really great.

I CANNOT WAIT until the episode with Gloria Trillo!!!

I’m on the episode where Tony find out Gloria killed herself. That one always made me so sad

IMO, the Talking Sopranos interviews are mostly boring. They reminisce about Gandolfini, etc. The David Proval interview was interesting, though. He really is different from that character (Richie Aprile). Also, he talked about how he became Richie Aprile (you can't give me something that's already mine). He was personally feeling like that as an actor as well and that was touching to me.

The more interesting part of Talking Sopranos is when the 2 usual hosts talk about the specific episode.

Jean Philippe, you’re home. Qu'est-ce que c'est, man? Uh, message machine broken?

Just as long as they don’t have that useless anorexic on who played the daughter.

Talk about lucking into a career - -

A DL icon

Annabella Sciorra (Gloria) is up next on Talking Sopranos. Look at her face in this thumbnail. What happened?

Anyway, Annabella was offered the role of Dr. Melfi, actually, but said no (thought she was too young at the time). What a dumbo.

I did like how she played her Gloria character, though. Very believable.

R304, Jamie Lynn Siegler was already on Talking Sopranos. Agree she was a terrible actress. She got married for a short time and changed her last name to her husband's name. What a dumbo.

Yes- By far the weakest links of the entire series are the two horrible Soprano children. My god they were weak and charisma less. Both of them. Iler did some better work in the last 2 seasons, They were both SO unappealing. Iler hasn't acted since 2009.

IMO, the kids' (Meadow & AJ) characters were also plain boring and poorly-written. I think David Chase chickened out on those characters & the way Tony would have really treated his children. IMO, it was almost "Father Knows Best" when it came to the interactions.

I honestly and deeply hated both the kids - so in retrospect perhaps they were actual well cast, and played (?)

The kids became extraneous when the show shifted focus toward the mob stuff.

Nah- they both SUCKED. And I agree, the writing for both of them was horrible. However, they were lousy actors with zero star power.

That's why I think Pine Barrens was somewhat ruined by the shitty B-plot involving a whining Meadow & hot but dumb-as-rocks Jackie Junior.

[quote] Carmela won't lose her house or her business due to an asset seizure from the Feds, as Tony is killed before indictments are handed down. She'll also get the millions he stashed overseas through the Russians

Whereupon she reoriented her love life and went into the real estate business

She probably still can’t manage to wake up after the pounding Furio laid on her last night.

The “actress” who played Meadow claims she has Multiple Sclerosis.

She says she can’t accept roles that require running or jumping anymore - - though on the other hand maybe she’s just lazy.

One of the moments that hit me hardest was Tony going to visit AJ in the mental hospital with the pizza. He’s not allowed to bring in outside food and so he leaves the pizza at the reception desk. Walking through the door into the ward, his shoulders slumped, he looks wearier and sadder than we’ve ever seen Tony. He can’t even bring his son the family cure-all of food.

I was a depressed/suicidal teenager and that moment always makes me reflect on the hell I must have put my poor parents through. Gandolfini could portray so much with just his posture. Christ, what a great actor.

R317, sorry to hear about your teen struggles. I had them, too, and my mom told me (when we were both older) that she worried about me a lot. (She was mostly stoic, outwardly.)

Anyway, Gandolfini was a really good actor and could act with just his face and eyes. I don't really say that very much because it sounds stupid, but he could really project sadness sometimes with his eyes and face.

[QUOTE] One of the moments that hit me hardest was Tony going to visit AJ in the mental hospital with the pizza. He’s not allowed to bring in outside food and so he leaves the pizza at the reception desk. Walking through the door into the ward, his shoulders slumped, he looks wearier and sadder than we’ve ever seen Tony. He can’t even bring his son the family cure-all of food.

That’s why I said earlier that there’s no way David Chase should be surprised that we didn’t want to see Tony die when he and the writers did so much to humanize him. They could’ve easily made him more of a monster in our eyes and they didn’t. Nobody was sitting there in those final moments with him at the diner thinking “Gee I hope some hitman puts a moonroof in his head right there in front of the whole family.”

If anything we were hoping that it wasn’t truly the end.

Exactly r319. My father was brutal + Italian (and from NY). If Chase wanted to be realistic AJ would have been verbally and physically abused. The way Tony was treated,ring true. She was attractive smart and capable. AJ was a loser and his father would have treated him as such.

*the way Meadow was treated

They did address that a couple of times: AJ was never physically abused by Tony (except for a couple of slaps) because Carmela wouldn't stand for it. Melfi later made Tony realize that deep down, he wished his own mother had protected him from his father's brutality.

Gandolfini could be terrifying without saying a word.

Lorraine Bracco, Dr. Jennifer Melfi, Tony Soprano's (James Gandolfini) psychiatrist on the hit HBO series, was originally offered a very different role: Carmela Soprano. So why did she turn down the role that eventually went to Edie Falco?

"Because I did it in Goodfellas," Bracco told Watch What Happens Live host Andy Cohen Wednesday. "And I didn't think I could do it better. David [Chase] and I agreed with that, so I asked him if I could play Jennifer Melfi."

Hot lady for middle age. Even if they used a body double for her nude scenes.

In real life, Tony would have treated AJ a lot worse and Carmela would not be able to control it.

I lived a not totally dissimilar life from AJ. I’m not going to go into it here, but the “next generation” which my actual father and Tony on the series were a part of, had the war wounds of being raised by horrible, violent, mean parents and even if they became successful it was “never enough.” Tony and my father both went to psychiatrists religiously, always the same one, because they wanted to “be better” and not fuck up their kids in the same way their parents did to them. There is a lot more truth in what you see in the show than anyone who hasn’t been involved in that world will ever know.

Tony’s mother issues made him cling to his wife, the one good decision vis a vis women (to quote Melfi) that he ever made. That gave Carmela the influence to protect AJ. She was venal and in denial about a lot of things, but the series consistently showed that she had the balls to stand up to Tony when she had to—and hands-off the kids was a non-negotiable rule in their marriage.

AJ was a narcissistic little douchebag, but his mother’s protection meant his narcissism never hardened into the sociopathy of his father and grandfather. Carmela’s strength of mind spared the world a third generation of Soprano crime bosses. For all her faults, she was a great mother.

I would also argue Tony was as good of a father as he could be and working with Dr. Melfi made him more aware and understanding of the “real world” circa early 2000s. Their conversation about Vito and her bringing him down to the truth of his convictions - aka he doesn’t care if Vito is gay and just doesn’t want it to have an impact on business - acts as a touchstone of how this series depicted a world adjusting to a new normal and perhaps how it was inevitable it would end.

Agreed, R328. Melfi also helped Tony realize that even though he had a certain native contempt for AJ because of his son's weak temperament, he also envied AJ's innocence and was secretly glad that his son could never turn into a gangster. He's the one who tells his son after AJ's botched assault on Uncle Junior that "you're a nice guy--that's a good thing."

Tony put Christopher in the deadly position of heir to the Soprano crime family instead of AJ. Tony's expectations and influence ate at Christopher's soul and helped turn him into a junkie, a weakness Tony later killed him for. After Christopher's death, Tony then gave his real son the cushy, non-criminal job in the entertainment industry that would have been Christopher's dream life.

These actions are interesting in light of Tony's history with his father. At 22, Tony made his bones at Johnny Boy Soprano's order, which put him on the path to being the hardened but anxious criminal he becomes by 1998 when we first meet him. Tony's resentment of his father becomes clear in the episode "Chasing It," though Tony never really confronts those feelings. But his split response to his two sons is telling: He dooms Christopher just as Johnny Boy doomed him, but he saves AJ both by allowing Carmela to protect him from abuse (leaving the boy temperamentally unfit to be a gangster) AND by getting AJ a job that will lead him to being a successful B-movie producer. (According to David Chase, who predicted this as AJ's eventual fate).

Tony's treatment of his two sons both imitates and rejects Johnny Boy's treatment of himself. Perhaps it was the best solution he could find to his seething resentment of the dead father he outwardly idolized.

That AJ had the raw material to be a sociopathic criminal is evident in the episode where he watches his thuggish friends pour acid on the foot of a boy who owes them money. The attentive, gleeful expression on his face is very close to his father's when Tony is doing what he likes best--beating the shit out of people. But unlike Tony, AJ is later eaten up with remorse and goes into a depressive tailspin, crying to his psychiatrist that he wishes they could all just get along. We also see Tony's influence when AJ is a senior in high school and make money by charging students to attend illegal underage keg parties.

In his small, timid son are the faint echoes of Tony's canniness and violence, but they are only echoes. The Soprano temperament was smothered by AJ's privileged upbringing in the leafy Jersey suburbs and by his mother's loving, indulgent attentions. Of course, his father's willingness to let Carmela be the ruling presence in the domestic sphere was also a key factor. AJ is lazy, anxious, and narcissistic like his father, but there the resemblance ends.

I could have watched an entire series of The Sacrimonis with Johnny and Ginny bickering about KitKats, cigarettes, prison visits, keeping Johnny's commissary account topped up, what to tell the grandkids about Grandpa...... Chase wasted a great opportunity in killing Johnny off so soon after his incarceration.

Regarding the ending, it's just as Tony told Melfi early in the series:

"There's two ways out for a guy like me, dead or in jail."

There are no happy endings to be had, short of ratting and witness protection.

Greatest show ever in my opinion, for the strength of its characterizations and willingness to let the characters lead the story, something which The Wire, for all its brilliance, wasn't able to do.

Greatest show ever, no question.

Funny that The Godfather 1 & 2 are the greatest films and The Sopranos is the greatest TV show.

Let’s not even mention Frank Sinatra...

I vote for The Wire over The Sopranos by just a hair.

And The Wire and The Sopranos shit all over Mad Men and Breaking Bad.

The first 3 seasons of the Wire are some of the best television ever made. However, it's not a show that welcomes the casual viewer. You have to commit and watch all the episodes in order or you'll have no idea what's going on. Like Breaking Bad, it's perfect for binge watching. With the Sopranos, you can dip in and out and still get a sense of what is going on.

That's the last ziti before she died.

That's the last ziti before she died.

I’m eleven attracted to Paulie this time around

[quote] I’m even attracted to Paulie this time around

Let's not go overboard

James Gandolfini’s first on-screen role:

Holy shit, that was some shitty dialogue in that student film. But you could see some of the Tony Soprano intensity even then.

Guaranteed that the scene at R341 will be better than the prequel the kid is in.

Jesus I bet he threw a mean fuck at that age... he's all balls and chest hair, irresistible!

The few clips I've seen of Michael Gandolfini's acting don't show the intensity of his father. But the kid is only 21, and he IS playing a teenage Tony, so the intensity isn't necessarily required.

Just finished season 5. Johnny Sak as the Godfather was terrifying.

This thread made me want to rewatch MOST of the series. For some odd reason I was inspired to Start at Season 3!

This show really holds up. The authenticity.

Upon re-viewing-

There are a lot of BAD actors on the show- yet it WORKS. It gives the show an even more real vibe. It doesn't work against it- it actually makes it better. I am talking alot of the episodic players- the really supporting, supporting roles...

The show has some seriously awesome humor- and it all works. I love all of the mobsters malapropisms- cracks me up.

AJ and Meadow were both GARBAGE. Horrific and charisma free actors who NEVER got better. Iler did at least TRY during the last 2 seasons.

Carmela was truly a piece of shit. You have to rewatch it- She was the ultimate hypocrite and she knew everything she owned was bloody. The best episodes were when she admitted as much to priests and to Dr Melfi. Not nearly a complex character as Falco's brilliant performance would lead you to believe.

Annabella Sciorra- The highlight of the series for me. You think I get free fucking ty-uz?????

Valentina- The most underrated supporting actress- LOVED her. She was sexy, fun, didn't give a FUCK, then lost her looks cooking eggs for Tony!

Pauly Walnuts- Not much of an actor, but a brilliant comedian. This character was the meanest and the FUNNIEST. Love PAWLY!!!! I love any scene with his "motha/aunt" NUCCI! Nucci was clearly NOT an actress - but funny as balls!!

Pine Barrens and Long Term Parking are the best episodes of the series.

The most under appreciated all around actor- By far-Aida Turturro as Janice. There are no words. I fucking love Janice..

Gandolfini- A masterclass in acting. Died way too young. He was quite a force.

The Sopranos is just funny! Janice running and screaming while being tackled by the cops is one funny clip.

It’s for sure a dark comedy. Much funnier than people give it credit for. I often quote the remark made to Artie about the bread at Vesuvio being from “the bread museum.” 😂😂😂😂

And Russian's leg? So good.

For me, Season 3 is where its at.

And I gave NO props to Nancy Marchand. Good bless that brilliant lady.

For me- There is The Sopranos PRE Nancy's death, and post Nancy's death.

And SHIT! The worst "regular" actor- That Joseph Giannuscolo (sp) dude, who lost all that weight and played the gay mobster-

My god, he is HORRIBLE- but again, it works. His character is charmless. Utterly devoid of likability. Disgusting. That was an odd storyline on this show. And I love how they made New Hampshire out to be some gay Mecca. Um. Okay. It was ridiculous, but again- it worked. I thought it reflected EXACTLY how the crew would react. Even Tony- it was all very true.

Its like 2 shows. Love both. But I favor Season 3, and it has nothing to do with Nancy.

Johnny Sac is sexy af

I was surprised to learn that Sylvio and Gabrielle were married in real life! They must have been wild out on the road with Bruce.

Who is Gabrielle???????

R352, Gabriella is the wife of perennial second in command Silvio Dante. She’s a background character, but wears particularly extreme zebra striped clothing.

Here you are, Sil. The times make the man, honey, not the other way around.

R351 I thought you meant that Gabrielle (Is Gabriella by the way!) was married to Furio. And I am googling feverishly thinking "You dumb FUCK" Gabriella is married in real life to Sylvio, motherfucker. And then I realized that I am drunk, and you said that Gabrielle is married to Sylvio, which is TRUE! Since 1982! I was 5!!!!!! Old fucks.

Since I am done with you, cocksucka. I wanna say that she (Gabriella) is a SHIT actress. She was exactly what I meant. One of those horrible actors who made Sopranos work!

She was GHASTLY.

Now who’s a genius for keeping his Regal?

Word to the wise! Remember Pearl Harbor!!

The parasitic hets that lurk around DL really need to give it up, nobody here is interested in your homophobic, dudebro show.

R358- My cocksucka line above was not meant to be homophobic. It was a word used on the show repeatedly by Tony himself.

I think the show was homophobic because mobsters are beyond homophobic. Even Carmella made a few comments earlier in the show that came across as homophobic (and then a few where she seemed a little okay with it- but she was clearly a bitch)The New Hampshire storyline was not for pussies. Every other sentence from the crew was homophobic when Vito was found out. I laughed my ass off because they reacted as their characters SHOULD and WOULD. Tony was the only one wanting to give Vito and chance- and I think that Parisi guy.

The Sopranos was not a dudebro show. That's why David Chase pretty much hated the fans. They thought the show was something that it actually wasn't. Half the people who watched were to stupid to understand all of the subtext and symbolism.

If I were to guess- the only characters on this show cool with gay folks would be Janice, Meadow, and Dr Melfi.

R358, I don’t understand. When I was a kid, you were an old lady. Now I’m old and you’re still old.

I don't think that The Sopranos was "homophobic" because it portrayed homophobia. The gangsters' pathetic fear of being seen as weak or "feminine" was a constant theme of the show, right down to the moment the guys mocked Johnny Sack--a boss!--for weeping at being arrested at his daughter's wedding. (Tony was the only one who dissented). The Vito storyline showed that their defensiveness and cruelty were more important to them than their greed. Vito, as Tony kept trying to point out, was a good "earner," but even that didn't matter.

I think part of the gay storyline was to show the evolution of Tony, a more modern mobster, who at one point was willing to live with Vito’s homosexuality until the repeated interventions of Phil Leotardo, an older boomer gangster, made the situation untenable. Tony also pointedly said regarding Vito “Let’s be honest—we know he’s not the first” when justifying why he wouldn’t outright have Vito executed.

The show itself wasn’t homophobic, the characters were. They were also racist and misogynistic. That’s the underworld. I don’t care what race, color or creed a group of gangsters may be, they are all unwelcoming of homosexuals.

Are people in New Hampshire really as nice as they seemed on this show?

R363- NO.

I can't imagine people from New Hampshire being so friendly.

I’m now on the season 6 episode where we meet Christopher’s new girlfriend who is such a basic bitch. She’s such a minor character but I deeply resented her due to my fondness for Adriana.

Does every major mafioso basically die in this show? The only ones left standing at the end are Paulie, Butchie and Little Carmine, no?

Paulie is clearly a vegetable though. He would never be the same, so dead in terms of being a leader in that crew.

R367, It makes you wonder who would have taken over... Probably no one David Chase or the writers ever introduced us to..

R366- I think this was on purpose. Chase knew the end was near and that character would basically be a caricature. And that's what she was. They really had no time to develop her when they had 15 more important legacy characters to devote the final 18 or so episodes to. I cannot even remember when they introduced her?

Albert Barese would’ve taken over.

Cocksucking Muriel and her update ruined my OP image. I loved seeing that fucking picture. Best season poster by far.

Paulie took over the Soprano family and Little Carmine of the Luppertazi family. It would've been interesting to see how that would've played out. Paulie was paranoid but had huge balls of steel, Carmine was more strategic and intelligent than given credit for.

Sorry- I meant Sylvio!!!!!

Paulie was such a dipshit that I cannot see him doing ANYTHING.

Latest episode of "Talking Sopranos." Features David Chase, who is less sentimental than the hosts in remembering Gandolfini. (Bitching about being famous: why'd you become an actor?)

[QUOTE] Paulie took over the Soprano family and Little Carmine of the Luppertazi family.

Paulie did not command enough respect to be the head of the family.

Furio would probably return and take over the Soprano family since Naples would still need the stolen cars. Him and Carmela marry and restore order and stability to the Luppertazi- Soprano alliance.

Tony Sirico (Paulie Walnuts) is now having cognitive issues. It's apparent in this interview. Also, Michael Imperioli & Steve Schirripa talk about him (Sirico) in the past tense even though he's alive.

There’s no way Furio would have what it takes to be a boss. The guy was never anything more than a goon. It has to be someone who knows how to run an organization, which is why it’s typically an underboss, consigliere or captain of a crew. If the show should’ve taught you anything, it’s that being a mob boss is a lot more complicated than we thought.

Which is why I say it would be Albert Barese, whose crew had become the biggest, top earning faction in the Jersey crime family. We already know Albert has the respect, because when Richie made his move against Tony, Uncle Junior refused to back him when Richie failed to get Albert on his side. Albert would be the perfect guy to restore order

Edie Falco (Carmela) suggested to David Chase that Carmela should take over the "family." Might be interesting, but not sure how she would be able to take over.

Janice had more of the personality to be a crime boss.

IMO, the Albert Barese character wasn't very developed. Definitely the best-looking guy in the Sopranos.

A fucking woman boss? Never happen in the states.

My dad was like Livia. Just a sarcastic, manipulative, miserable human being. We never talked about it but when my dad passed their was this relief in the air. Weird thing is i myself morphing into them negative attitudes.

It would have been Patsy Parisi. I'm fairly sure he's the one who gave up Tony to NY in the first place. Meadow went from being the daughter of the boss to the daughter-in-law of the boss.

The Patsy theory that’s floated around for years sounds interesting, but he wasn’t even a captain and he’s going to suddenly leapfrog everyone else to become boss? What did Patsy ever do to demonstrate leadership? And why would the captains fall in line?

And there was no need to “give up” Tony. It’s not like he got killed at the safe house. The war was over. As far as Tony was concerned, everything was fine and it was safe to resume his normal routines and activities. He was driving his Escalade. He was back at the Bing. He saw Janice and Uncle June. We saw him hanging outside Satriale’s without a care in the world talking to Paulie. And he was in midst of eating his “last supper” in a restaurant with his family. It wouldn’t have been hard for Butchie to hit him, he was more open than the post office on April 15th.

Were there any captains left alive in the Soprano crew by the end, though? Vito was dead, Chris was dead, Bobby was dead, Carlo had turned state's evidence. That left only Albert and Paulie, who never seemed like leader types. Patsy was just a soldier, but he seemed intelligent and stable, and he could be intimidating in his avuncular way (as he was during the last scene with Gloria). He had good reason to hate Tony as it's clear that Patsy knew Tony had Patsy's twin killed. It's possible that Patsy could have simply had Tony taken out on his own, and then made peace with NYC and gathered up the tattered remnants of the Sopranos family into something resembling a functioning crew.

If Tony lived and didn't get taken down by the sealed indictments, it's almost certain he would have promoted Patsy once Patrick and Meadow got married. Tony always put too much stock in family, even pseudo-family, as is clear from Christopher's and Bobby's meteoric rises. If Patsy was really Machiavellian, he would have taken the promotion to Captain, bided his time and cozied up to NY, and then taken out Tony later.

Not many captains survived. Paulie already tried to defect. I think it was the end of that particular crime family. The scraps would’ve moved on to other families, even if demoted.

[quote] I think it was the end of that particular crime family. The scraps would’ve moved on to other families

Dreamers taking their rightful place in America

There is absolutely no way that the Jersey crime family would’ve ended with Tony’s death. There were all sorts of soldiers and a couple captains who we didn’t see regularly. Look at Ray Curto, the rat. He had a crew, he died, and we never got to see who replaced him as captain. Does that mean nobody took charge? Or was it just one of many things that happened offscreen? Look at Albert Barese—he just disappeared because the actor had some legal trouble. But what about Albert the character? We didn’t hear about any drastic changes like prison time or anything, so we have to assume that he was still around somewhere at the end.

Like Carmine Lupertazzi said, “There are millions of dollars at stake.” The North Jersey crime family was a multi-million dollar enterprise. That doesn’t just evaporate cause a few guys get shot. Somebody stepped up and took over, even if Brooklyn had to install a puppet.

R380, Carmela could have taken a lesson or two from Mrs. George "Don't fuck with me fellas!" Steele on how to take over the, uh, family waste management business.

There was a scene with Paulie fucking one of the dancers in the back of the Bada Bing club. It was low key, yet intense and hot!

[quote] when my dad passed their was this relief in the air.

Oh, dear.

......

The penultimate episode for me was Melfi's realization of her patient's psychopathy. It brought it home for the viewer too. He had a lot of familial traits but in the end, he was an irredeemable monster. It was also a great exit for the Melfi character overall, given her history and lingering hesitancy toward her patient.

So funny you post this, R393, as I was just discussing the scene predating and (apparently) mirroring it with a friend.

It’s become increasingly clear what David Chase created on this series was a dense novel on the level of Faulkner and Joyce that generations will (hopefully) come to enjoy and maybe attempt to unpack.

The first great American television novel? Since it only gets richer the deeper you go, that aspect of its brilliance simply cannot be denied.

"The Many Saints of Newark" (Sopranos prequel) will be released this fall. I think that's what Michael Imperioli said on "Talking Sopranos." Starring James Gandolfini's real-life son, Michael Gandolfini. Vera Farmiga will play young Livia Soprano (nice casting, not sure about the physical resemblance). Ray Liotta is in there, too, I think.

I've been watching / listening to "Talking Sopranos" on YouTube w/Michael Imperioli (Christopher) & Steve Schirripa (Bobby Bacala).

I watched it online a few times and now for the first time I'm watching it on a big screen TV I got. Every time I watch I catch something I missed every other time. It will never go stale. It's a great series. I can't think of many things I can enjoy seeing over and over again.

I think the one thing about Tony that touches me and almost, and I say almost, humanizes him for me is his love for animals.

One thing I notice every time I watch the series again is that I lose my taste for Italian food because that is all they eat for 99% of their meals. Yes there is the occasional Chinese takeout but mostly it's more of the same pasta with the same sauce, it all looks the same and pizza now and then. I like Italian food now and then but not like that.

In real life to Italian families eat Italian food for every meal? I mean Irish people don't have corned beef and cabbage every day.

R396

Tony on the cat in his safe house:

"He just caught his first mouse down in the basement."

[quote] I think the one thing about Tony that touches me and almost, and I say almost, humanizes him for me is his love for animals.

I thought the ducks in the swimming pool thing was cheesy (first season). Also, the horse thing, I'm glad they had Ralph yell at Tony about all the meat he (Tony) eats. Ralph was a good character in that he kept it real.

I am enjoying the thought that the whole family was whacked. They were all so fucking demanding, entitled and annoying.

R131 I said my piece, Chrissy!

Stevie Van Zandt was in no way a natural actor, but that was probably the best line reading of the whole show.

R401 He was perfectly cast. Christopher Walken's wife was the casting director for The Sopranos. She did an amazing job.

[quote] I said my piece, Chrissy!

That was from the intervention, right? That entire scene was hilarious. Tony getting angry at Christopher for killing little Cosette (Adriana's dog). Paulie harassing the interventionist.

Christopher couldn’t call his mother a whore quick enough to give Paulie a reason to beat his ass. Then the scene cuts to him being wheeled into hospital for his injuries.

This show was freaking funny.

I’m just gonna grab the Barenaked Ladies CD.

My favorite characters were Johnny Sacks and Janice. I loved Janice.

What is this, the fucking UN?

My fave is Uncle June.

I watched the series a few times….. it’s probably time to watch it again

I’ve watched it once a year since it ended, R409.

I’m currently watching from the start and following each episode with the Talking Sopranos podcast with Michael Imperioli and Steve Schirripa.

We reached the episode where the FBI are watching the wives play tennis, and the it ginger tennis coach is lezzing out over Adriana. Whose body is insane, to be fair.

I've watched every episode of Sopranos and also every episode of Talking Sopranos. When rewatching Sopranos, I don't rewatch Season 1 and 2, though. The early-seasons Tony Soprano looks too much like George Costanza, to me.

Yes, Adriana had a great body. Carmela did, too, actually. In retrospect, Drea De Matteo and Edie Falco both pinged.

Seasons 1 and 2 were so important, not to mention great. I don’t see how you could just completely skip them on a rewatch.

Season 1 is so amazing! I would probably rank the seasons as 3, 6b, 1, 5, 6a, 4, 2. Maybe.

Mr Ruggiero’s Neighbourhood - the first ep season 3 - was released during the peak of “mash-ups”. The Peter Gunn theme crossed with I’ll Be Watching You made my skin crawl. Well, the Police but did.

Did the hidden microphone in the lamp end up where the FBI wanted it near the A/C, or after the flood did Tony put it some place else? At the final shot of the episode I couldn’t tell.

Perfection

Love the pictures of nude Matt Servitto preening nude in front of his "nephew."

Funny it was agent Dwight Harris who was the one who's done the most nude scenes of the entire male Sopranos cast, with three scenes in various movies/tv series.

The greatest series of all time. My family has ties to the black mafia. This is them in Italian American Jersey suburbia.

Season 1 is the best but season 5 is my favorite because of the Adriana story arc.

Matt Servitto was hot as fuck. Those are hot pics of him strutting around nude exposing himself and pounding his costars.

Too bad he didn't try to keep his hair.

Well, he sure kept his bush hair.

Thank you ! I think it's time to start watching this again. From the beginning. I believe The Sopranos, The Wire, and Mad Men were the best shows ever to appear on TV. Historic. They had spectacular casting, great writing and were meticulously plotted out.

Still fuckable at close to 60.