"Defund the Police"

The Dems messages on their own will have the Republicans win. Especially after Joe's big lockdown comes.

Dems need to learn marketing and branding.

I'm annoyed as hell over the policing that is going on all over the country, hoping we can finally get some reform. And see some equality of treatment. I still think that "defund the police" was the most ridiculous slogan ever. Not only that, people refuse to let it fade away.. I wish we could all focus on the actual reforms instead of slogans.

Democrats who believed in the message of "Defund The Police" pushed Biden to victory. Trump would have won easily if the progressive wing of the Democratic party was not activated. It would have been worse than 2016. "Defund The Police" got voters to the polls in GA, MI, WI and PA. We lost some voters but we gained more.

Democrats need to play to their base, stop trying to win over Republicans. Speak to the part of the electorate that never votes because they can barely distinguish Biden from Trump. Republicans don't try to moderate their message -- they play to the right-wing nutjob base. The Democrats need to tear a page from the Republican playbook.

We need to Defund the fucking Lesbians!! That's who need to be defunded!! The goddamn lesbians!!

Defund the police will echo in history as one of the dumbest slogans of all time. Cost us MANY votes. Who is the fool who thought it up. Reform the police would have sufficed.

Police reform would have been a much more intelligent choice, but intelligence was not the driving force on this matter.

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R8 that's true. Look at how many cops show up for a routine traffic stop nowadays.

That picture isn’t flattering. Wow...

[quote] That picture isn’t flattering.

If you google her that's as good as it gets

How about Vote Your Values? That slogan is replacing Defund the Police, but it means the same thing. Get out there or get on the phone and make your city council vote to remove funds from the happy shooters and give those funds to mental health care response teams, after school programs, Head Start, etc.

Vote Your Values. If you like it, stop bitching about some words and start doing something.

Fox "News" and the RWNJs ran with this slogan and crucified Dems 24/7 every day leading up to the election, but they would have done that anyway (no matter the slogan). The problem is that basically EVERYONE who first heard it in the news assumed that anarchy and complete dissolution of every police department across the country was the goal - when of course that was not the case. My understanding was that the slogan was actually coined by the Black Panthers back in the 60's. Clearly even the furthest left in our party (who is a sitting member of Congress) would likely not want that correlation drawn today in 2020. Yes, the messaging and marketing was bad on this one. When we see a grassroots movement building in the future, we need to step in as a party and define the messaging sooner. In this case the cause is both admirable and necessary, but many could not get past the name which sounded far more extreme than it was. Joe and Kamala were left in a tricky spot trying to defend this one and we didn't need the additional impediment for this critical election. With better branding this could have been a powerful and advantageous message; I think it was ultimately polarizing - both winning progressive votes and losing moderate votes equally.

“Defund the police” is an utterly asinine slogan. How did anyone think it would be a good idea? Re-educate the police maybe. But police are needed, particularly in a country with so many crazies.

Black Live Matter should have been Black Lives Matter Too.

Defund the Police should have been Reform the Police.

We have to take the easy ammo away from the idiots because those three word slogans are about all the Repug sheep can keep up with.

Agreed on both R15. RWNJs will weaponize anything, but let's not keep handing them AK-47s before engaging in a duel with revolvers.

That woman at R8 looks like a crack whore. She's a commissioner? No wonder Portland is so fucked up with homeless people shitting on the sidewalks.

Because every Deplorable is related to at least one cop, Deputy or Correction Officer.

And all of their kids want to be one of the above after they get back from Eye-rack.

This entire thread represents all the reasons why Trump almost won.

R19, why? Enlighten us.

Just the be clear the "Democrats" didn't come up with these slogans and when they tried to change them or slow them down, the various groups that did had no interest.

The GOP, never ones to miss an opportunity, quickly picked them up and amplified them so that the racial justice protests quickly became "defund the police" protests

Too many leaders of the American progressive movement live in a little Twitter bubble and have no idea what is going on in the real world.

Stop attacking, nagging, and complaining about black movements. Nothing ever changes because of you assholes. You are the same people who would complain during the Civil Rights movement about black people and the attacking of black activists continues to this day. You people are close minded fools for buying into these narratives.

So according to the imbeciles in this thread, the way to beat racism in this country is to...cave to the racists and make them feel more comfortable?

The far left liberal Dems will absolutely kill the Dem party in the midwest on the next midterms. I cannot imagine hard working people in the midwest voting for the values of the Bronx's AOC. They are taught to believe that the AOC liberal Dems give away too much of the taxpayer dime to people who don't contribute and have never contributed. This is what they believe and that will only be ingrained going forward. Yes they rejected Trump, but did not embrace the Dem's values, that is why the House lost seats and the Dem Senate never happened.

R24 people like R22 and R23 who love to give ammo to Sean and Tucker. In fact they exult in it. Their self righteousness trumps all. Literally.

Approved!

[quote]RWNJs

Real Weirdos of New Jersey?

[quote] Defund the police will echo in history as one of the dumbest slogans of all time.

No, it will be the opposite.

No sane person wants to completely defund the police, but that is was the Right believe the movement is about. Americans are just so insanely stupid and lazy, so we need over the top headlines or we aren’t interested. The movement should have been branded as police reform/education.

I agree with the poster that BLM should have been branded as BLMtoo. It should be obvious that that is what it means, but people of BOTH sides seem to not get it.

Everybody get a single vote. Use it and see what happens. Insulting others usually makes them feel more justified and satisfied voting against your interest. Time will tell if 2022 is a Dem washout because of AOC and her far left liberal views overtaking the narrative of the Dem party.

Yeah, "Make America Great AGAIN" is real subtle. Particularly after 8 years of a black president whose intellect and citizenship was impugned every day by a white racist moron.

If anything "Defund The Police" is a clarion call that will endure for decades. If we are ever able to implement effective police reform, "Defund The Police" will be heralded as the beginning of the movement.

The GOP spent this fall proving that "Defund the police" makes for very effective negative advertising.

They've also had a field day with an op-ed the NYT let some radical professor write that was about abolishing the police.

She had no backup plan, just wanted to do away with them.

Even the NYT liberal commenters told her she was a fucking idiot, but the GOP made hay out of "The Liberal New York Times wants to abolish the police" (because MAGAts don't know the difference between an editorial and an op-ed)

While protesters demanded "Defund the Police," only rarely did Dem candidates use it in their platforms.

It's the GOP who used it to smear Dems as the Radical Left.

If the GOP is going to call the Dems radical and socialist, why not be radical and socialist?? Most people actually support stuff like Medicare for All.

The truth is we really do need to defund the police

[quote]It's the GOP who used it to smear Dems as the Radical Left.

If you give the republicans a gift like "defund the police" do you think they are not going to take it and run with it. I think one of the mistakes that we made last summer was that we thought a lot of white people had turned the page on the police/black relationship in law enforcement after seeing George Floyd. But then I think we fucked it up by going too far. Floyd was turned into a martyr and used to open the door to a bunch of other changes that 70 million people were clearly not willing to embrace.

We won and we have 5 million more Americans on our side than the Trumpsters, but we really need some better messaging. Hire McMann & Tate or Sterling Cooper or somebody, because we suck at it.

I agree - was a really stupid word choice. "Police reform" or something surely could have been much easier to discuss.

or juset rebrand BLM to Blacks Matter (BM)

BLM is a corporation, not a 501c3. Their manifesto outlines neo-liberal policy interests which are backed by billionaires across the west. They explicitly exclude black women and black gay men and lesbians from their policy goals. Anyone who believes that they organically cropped up overnight is a fool.

"Defeed the Troll" - here's my new DL marketing strategy!

R31 lives in a very tiny bubble.

Make the police less like the military complex and pivot to more on the beat cops is a better way to call for change. The idea of Defund the police in NYC came when violent crimes were on the rise by huge margins. This slogan was beyond STUPID, as people were already scared and to see looters running around on the news almost every night. The call to Defund the Police was too much for many, especially people from other places who saw the footage provided by FOX News.

[quote] If you give the republicans a gift like "defund the police" do you think they are not going to take it and run with it.

The protestors, not the Democrats, used that phrase. The GOP was successful at conflating the two.

That said, it did bring out blacks en masse to push Biden to the win

The protestors were all Democratic voters and the Dems in power did zero to distance themselves and only started to tepidly speak out when they saw their number flattening out. DeBlasio embraced defund the police and so did the mayors of other liberal cities, some drafting defund the police legislation. The Dems own defund the police at this point and it is painful to see them run from it now.

The MInneapolis City Council voted to abolish the police.

That was all the GOP needed.

Assholes.

R44

The asshole is you.

[quote] [R31] lives in a very tiny bubble.

I do. It's called Los Angeles.

i live in a very tiny bubble within the LA metro. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Vote your values IS the new term, and if you choose to ignore it, it must be because you came on here to covertly complain about losing your white privilege and/or being made to feel guilty about your do nothingism.

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OP/Moscow Mitch: thanks for weighing in!

R1, most people support lockdowns. Especially now that cases are going through the roof

R49 is a moron

R38, BLM was started by black lesbians, so it's kind of weird to try to brand them as homophobic

If you want to see homophobic, look at your pals in the GOP. Who gave us Alito, Clarence Thomas, Amy Coney Barrett, and Justice Kegger? Who gave us the constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage?

R35, since Trump lost maybe Republicans need better messaging

[quote] The protestors were all Democratic voters and the Dems in power did zero to distance themselves

Just as Trump did not distance himself from Q Anon and White Supremacist groups. Why distance yourself from those who support you?

If fact, many Dems DID explain what was meant by "Defund the Police," but logic doesn't convince people who are easily scared by a demagogue

Defund the police pushed me as a centrist Dem almost out of the party. I voted Biden to rid the world of Trump but will not support another DeBlasio or AOC and their wastefully inefficient policies.

We are TIRED of the Tone Policing! Defund the Police means what it means. There are cities large and small that are are sick of the power law enforcement is given. Their budgets are outrageous, and investigations into these budgets are really starting to show where the money is going, and it's corruption through and through. I've been involved in community advocacy through a renters union & investigating community leaders where I used to live. The stories I heard were sick. The way the police treat women & minorities is FUCKED UP. FUCK "reform". These institutions are beyond reform. The 3rd Precinct in Minneapolis got torched for a reason. Read the stories. Listen to what these community members are saying. And if you think this is just a race issue, wake up. LGBTQ people are still targeted by police. Even more so this year. I've seen enough examples of the cops going after queer establishments & community leaders because they stood up next to BLM. They knew police brutality was a queer issue too. Now they're being investigated, harassed, threatened. Every time there is a step forward, there are ten "Well whatabout... ", Concern Trolls, contrarians stepping in the way. When the Minneapolis City Council stood in Powderhorn Park in June, they literally held banners onstage that outlined exactly what the community wanted. Now it's all being held up with processes, committees, arguments, stalling tactics by the establishment. It's bullshit. Defund the Police & Black Lives Matter will be successful because of the people, not because of these roadblocks. Get out of the way, hand-wringers.

R55, plenty of Dem politicians (like Biden) went out of their way to say they did not support defunding the police

On the other hand, Trump did not disavow QAnon or Kyle Rittenhouse

Saying all the people at the protests were registered Democrats is wrong, too. I bet many are not even registered to vote and there are right-wing groups who went to the protests and started shit so that it would be blamed on the protests

R57, try to get anyone who doesn't already believe in reforming the police to read your screed. The problem is, as we've said, the fucking messaging. Your convoluted mess there will accomplish nothing. Defund sounds like getting rid of to the people who aren't going to read the details, which is most people in America. So, you can keep yapping all you want but we need to be talking in 2-10 word phrases/slogans that leave no room for misinterpretation.

R59 you are pointing out a problem but have no solution. How much more can we make these things palatable? If simple demands and options can't be consumed, then I'm sorry but those people are beyond saving.

[quote]we need to be talking in 2-10 word phrases/slogans that leave no room for misinterpretation.

See attached photo. Minneapolis city council in Powderhorn Park in June. Simple messages. Easy to comprehend.

We have something similar in practice to what defunding the police results in, and it’s not pretty. In California we have a law that makes property crimes (less than $950) petty crimes, which in many counties the police doesn’t even arrest perpetrators and the DAs won’t bother prosecuting them. This is what has been happening in SF. We see people brazenly stealing in broad daylight from breaking into garages to loading up merchandise from stores before walking out. When people report theft to the police they’re being told that nothing could be done about it from a deterrent point of view because the DA’s office won’t prosecute. As for stores like Walgreens often being targeted by thieves, they tell employees to not stop them at all. At some point the stores close because of high operational cost due to theft. Unfortunately, many of these stores are located in underserved areas with predominantly black and Latino population. Most of the people in these neighborhoods aren’t thieves but they’re paying the price of police not policing crimes because why bother arresting people if they’re not going to be prosecuted?

So true. “Defund the police” and “free health care for illegals” will sink these fools.

Whoever wants to defund the police try walking a mile in the shoes of a cop in the Bronx. Funny no takers I imagine. The police deal with human animals everyday, of course they are ones causing trouble. The millions of scared people who try to live a half decent life in these parts are petrified to allow their kids to go anywhere by themselves. The eldery, gay, and other marginalized people also have need for a strong police force. It is lord of the flies in these big urban disaster zones. So easy for the limo libs to say defund the police is a necessary cause. Just try walking that mile.

How about "Teach the Police to Respect". The cops kill people with their bare hands (or knees) so it's not like taking their guns is necessarily the solution. They need an attitude adjustment towards the public that they are paid to protect.

R25, actually it’s people like you who give Tucker ammunition’s against the Democrats, because he can claim that the liberals are infighting because of the progressive part of the party.

What about the Republican Party? They have the Nazis, pro-life soccer moms, moderates, rich people who vote for the GOP because they want to save money, QAnon, religious morons, and a long list of other people. The difference is that nobody talks about it, and on Election Day everybody just shows up to vote for their candidate.

Should they defund the police? Hell, yes! Should they have called it that? No. Regardless, there should be a place for everybody in our party, otherwise they’re gonna stay at hone as they did in 2016.

Disarm The Police would have been a better slogan. Prosecute The Police could have worked. Train The Police would have incited a lot of double entendres but would have worked, too.

The problem with the cops are: 1) STEROIDS - 2) RACISTS - 3) Mandatory Low IQs - 4) Lack Of Deescalation Training - 5) Lack of Excluding Applicants With Personality Disorders - 6) Guns

No one with a brain thinks that defunding the cops will lead to safer cities.

Educate the Police

Retrain the Police.

That "Portland politician" at R8 looks like a crack whore with AIDS.

Lauren Underwood just won!

The Portland idiot who called 911 is the height of hypocrisy and is a stain on other liberal Dems. She will be the next joker card on Fox news I tell you.

[quote] As for stores like Walgreens often being targeted by thieves, they tell employees to not stop them at all. At some point the stores close because of high operational cost due to theft

After months of seeing its shelves repeatedly cleaned out by brazen shoplifters, the Walgreens at Van Ness and Eddy in San Francisco is getting ready to close.

“The last day is Nov. 11,” Walgreens spokesman Phil Caruso said.

The drugstore, which serves many older people who live in the Opera Plaza area, is 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐬𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐡 𝐖𝐚𝐥𝐠𝐫𝐞𝐞𝐧𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐜𝐥𝐨𝐬𝐞 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐜𝐢𝐭𝐲 𝐬𝐢𝐧𝐜𝐞 𝟐𝟎𝟏𝟗.

“All of us knew it was coming. Whenever we go in there, they always have problems with shoplifters, ” said longtime customer Sebastian Luke, who lives a block away and is a frequent customer who has been posting photos of the thefts for months. The other day, Luke photographed a man casually clearing a couple of shelves and placing the goods into a backpack.

“I feel sorry for the clerks, they are regularly being verbally assaulted,” Luke said. “The clerks say there is nothing they can do. They say Walgreens’ policy is to not get involved. They don’t want anyone getting injured or getting sued, so the guys just keep coming in and taking whatever they want.”

For security reasons, Walgreens declined to provide details on their security policies, but Caruso did say that “the safety of our team members and customers is our top concern.”

A recent trip to the store revealed aisle after aisle of empty or near-empty shelves. Beauty supplies appear to be a favored target.

Most of the remaining products were locked behind plastic theft guards, which have become increasingly common at drugstores in recent years.

But at Van Ness Avenue and Eddy Street, even the jugs of clothing detergent on display were looped with locked anti-theft cables.

When a clerk was asked where all the goods had gone, he said, “Go ask the people in the alleys, they have it all.”

Homeless encampments are common in the neighborhood, including two just across Eddy Street.

𝑵𝒐 𝒔𝒐𝒐𝒏𝒆𝒓 𝒉𝒂𝒅 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒄𝒍𝒆𝒓𝒌 𝒔𝒑𝒐𝒌𝒆𝒏 𝒕𝒉𝒂𝒏 𝒂 𝒎𝒂𝒏 𝒘𝒆𝒂𝒓𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒂 𝒗𝒊𝒓𝒖𝒔 𝒎𝒂𝒔𝒌 𝒘𝒂𝒍𝒌𝒆𝒅 𝒊𝒏, 𝒆𝒎𝒑𝒕𝒊𝒆𝒅 𝒕𝒘𝒐 𝒔𝒉𝒆𝒍𝒗𝒆𝒔 𝒐𝒇 𝒔𝒏𝒂𝒄𝒌𝒔 𝒊𝒏𝒕𝒐 𝒂 𝒃𝒂𝒈, 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒏 𝒉𝒆𝒂𝒅𝒆𝒅 𝒃𝒂𝒄𝒌 𝒇𝒐𝒓 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒅𝒐𝒐𝒓.

As he walked past the checkout line, a customer called out, “Sure you don’t want a drink with that?”

Just across busy Van Ness and down a block, a competing CVS pharmacy was fully stocked.

The difference? The CVS had a security guard at the door.

“Up there, they are closer to the Tenderloin. It’s the Wild West,” said a CVS clerk who was standing with the security guard.

REFORM THE POLICE

Re-focus - prevention and protection

De-militarise - use tasars, not guns

De-escalate - retrain police with new skills

[quote] The Portland idiot who called 911

Who?

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[quote]Disarm The Police would have been a better slogan. Prosecute The Police could have worked. Train The Police would have incited a lot of double entendres but would have worked, too.

The problem with such slogans is that police and their families interpret them as a direct attack on all of them.

The trick is to depersonalize. Use 'policing' instead of police if you must. Like "Policing reform" or "Community policing".

Best though is a slogan about the effect on you instead of attack slogans. Like, We want to live, or something of that sort. Vote your values also work, it's general yet people know what you mean.

R75, active verbs do not work in slogans or poetry.

R45 is why Biden didn't win in a landslide which freaked out the bubble democrats. Duh.

Active verbs and slogans go hand in hand, R76

But I suggested a general principle of messaging. Democrats have tons of PR people, yet time and again they can't avoid getting stuck with the slogans of some SJW group or other.

The irony R65! What is your bubble made of? Linoleum?

[quote] The eldery, gay, and other marginalized people also have need for a strong police force

Sure they do R63, when the police aren't actively trying to kill them/us.

I'm not sure "Defund the police" is the answer but don't act for a second like they're your friends.

They're not.

This is an important issue, so I'll say it again and again: until you are the one fucked over by the cops and left with no recourse, you won't get it.

I hope it doesn't happen to you, but don't be so sure it won't.

I obey the law and am not too worried about being fucked over by the cops. No concern whatsoever. I would call Sanford and Rubenstein if I was a true victim.

Joe Manchin seems to think AOC is a bonehead! She is plain nasty.

"Sure they do [R63], when the police aren't actively trying to kill them/us."

Yeah, the police are out there, guns blazing, blowing away the elderly, gays and the marginalized on sight. You're paranoid. Seek help.

R81 yes but 'Defund the Police' is no way near the answer.

This is the wrong message to address police brutality,

Cops are front line workers in a pandemic, thousands of cops have been killed by covid. All front line workers are deserving of support.

Defunding the police will be great for rapists and domestic abusers. Too bad so many cops are rapists and domestic abusers. This sure seems like a hiring issue and not a funding issue.

R84 is confused?

TAMPON THE POLICE!!!! LET'S TAMPON THE POLICE!!!!

I need more police in my hood. The drug dealers and lowlifes are taking over the streets. Sad times.

[quote] Cops are front line workers in a pandemic, thousands of cops have been killed by covid. All front line workers are deserving of support.

George Floyd deserved to breathe. When cops can stand up for right over wrong they will have my support. As long as police officers and their labor unions line up in unwavering support of depraved murderers, fuck 'em.

R82, is it kind of dark where you are? That's because your head is up your ass.

Defund the Police was started by GOP infiltrators. It’s a brilliant idea to make the other side seem insane. It was inevitable that the media would amplify it & dumbass “progressives” would adopt it.

What's funny is that some of you defending 'defund the police' don't even know what it means. It's not about just taking money away from police, which is exactly what it sounds like and why it is a terrible slogan. They want to redirect the funds to create more community police trained in social services and de-escalation. They want to hire more social workers and psychologists instead of having armed police officers be the only people sent to situations involving mental health issues, which is most of what cops do at this point. They also want to de-militarize them. None of this comes across in 'defund the police'. None of it.

What they need to do is de-macho the police. We need to start hiring tons more female officers.

Dems fucked themselves for many years forward with allowing the Defund Police slogan to be the far left's talking point. It is frightening to most law abiding people, especially ones who live far from large cities who see the looting and rise in crime every night on the news channels. Once corona is under control, many tourists will avoid NYC because of the rampant crime and belief that the police won't be there to protect them, call 911 and get a social worker to come and protect. The Dems explanations on Defund the Police on different tv shows over the summer/fall were awful and confusing and very poorly done. Jamie Harrison saw his lead evaporate and was blown out by Lindsey when it didn't have to be that way.

[quote] It's not about just taking money away from police.... They want to redirect the funds

Nice doublespeak, R94.

Morning Joe was just talking about how Defund the Police was a low point for the Dem party and how costly a mistake it was for the Dems to allow it to happen.

[quote] Nice doublespeak

Why stop now?

Kamala Harris on Tuesday applauded Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti’s decision to slash police funding by $150 million but stopped short of saying she backed the “defund the police” movement.

“I support investing in communities so that they become more healthy and therefore more safe,” Harris said in an interview on ABC’s “Good Morning America.” “I applaud Mayor Garcetti for doing what he’s done.”

--------------------------

In a statement last month, his folks insisted: “Biden does not believe that police should be defunded.”

Later, though, asked if money should be “redirected” away from cops, he replied, “Yes, absolutely.” And the charter for his alliance with Bernie Sanders vows to “reinvigorate community policing . . . and make smart investments to incentivize departments to build effective partnerships with social workers and mental-health and substance-use counselors” — which aligns with the #Defunders’ goals.

Yet, then on Wednesday, as a poll showed 81 percent of blacks want as much, or more, police presence, Biden — lo and behold! — called for more funding for cops, to handle the “God-awful problems” they face.

ALL TRUE... democrats still expect the american public to have the remote intelligence and take 5 minutes of their time to find out, to do research and understand what "defunding the police" and other slogans and actions mean...

democrats give the american public too much credit of education, intelligence, nuance, context and critical thinking skills... mostly of course the large swath of the midwest, upper midwest that will vote for republicans from now until doomsday...

2022 will soon arrive and prove some of us correct and others wrong. Joe Biden might be the last of the moderate Dems around and thankfully he ran and won the Presidency. I fear Defund the Police will destroy any respect moderate America has for the Dem party because as a lifelong Dem myself, I am humilliated by the slogan and will not twist into a pretzel to defend it.

This is great news for violent criminals whose malfeasant instincts and impetus cannot be solved by community potlucks. This makes the country less safe for the elderly, the disabled, children, women, LGB and any community minority.

You know what would save more lives than corrupt police? Gun control. Getting the guns off the streets. The police already have had so many resources and still do a shit job. But the gun problem in the US is what actually needs to be fixed if the US wants to see any improvement. Which they don’t.

I wonder what folks from Canada or Europe think when they hear "Defund The Police." America is comfortable with its police force -- in Buffalo, NY of all places -- looking like stormtroopers from "Empire Strikes Back." The military-style artillery and gear seems unnecessary to knock over and nearly kill one 80 year old man.

This sort of idealism must come from aliens. The concept is that everyone is intrinsically good but has gotten the short end of the stick and needs more chances, resources and therapy. Have none of you been the victim of a violent crime? There are bad people in the world. They should be arrested and placed in jai, and someone must do those tasks. The times I’ve been robbed it’s been by someone with a long felonious record being given yet another chance.

You're humiliated by a slogan? Humiliated?!

[quote]Dems fucked themselves for many years forward with allowing the Defund Police slogan to be the far left's talking point.

It's not up to the Democrats to decide what the far left will do. They're not the same group. Pelosi can't just 'go to the far left and tell them to stop' or whatever weird thing you're suggesting.

The Dems this year surely saw the voters coalesce around moderate Biden and rightly realized that would quiet the lefties down, which it did... until the media got bored waiting for election results and decided to stir shit up by screaming "Democrats are losers" 24/7 even though they fucking WON.

Now it's 15 thinkpieces a day about What The Democrats Did Wrong (tm) as told to us by rightwingers and lefties both.

It's embarrassing that so many fall for it.

R104, they’re the same vaguely sociopathic victim-blaming nitwits who believe in karma, in the face of all objective reality. Yes, Donald Trump is the most powerful man in the world because of karma. Black men and women are slaughtered by police because they must have done something wrong in a past life. Everyone in an oncology ward is there because of their own negative thoughts. If the rivers didn’t wear such short skirts, industry wouldn’t pollute them.

[quote]Yeah, the police are out there, guns blazing, blowing away the elderly, gays and the marginalized on sight.

Either you're dull, dimwitted or obtuse R84. I'm not sure which to go with. How about, "stupid?"

r4 Yes, just like Republicans just had an AMAZING election year because they got the votes of regular Republicans as well as Trump fans. The two form a coalition. Biden couldn't have won without progressives. The problem is there aren't a lot of progressive votes to go around when you're talking about the 10 senate races where it mattered.

DEFUND THE POLICE is political poison. I happen to agree with most of the BLM goals and police reform is one of them. The term DEFUND THE POLICE is very off putting to those who are not politically engaged but still vote and want to know that if they call the police, the police will show up in under 5 minutes. Most Democratic educated suburbanites fall into that category.

Wasn't "defund the police" invented by the Russiapublicans to sound like an antifa chant?

With Covid skyrocketing and temps turning colder, the protests should slack off. If they don't, you'll know who's behind them.

The Dems suck at slogans and messaging; "defund the police" is a misleading term that most Americans are too simple to understand. No one wants to eliminate police, yet that is exactly what the simple folks think this means. Just as the Dems allowed anti-abortion to become "pro-life" the language was co-opted with the help of media which is overall center/center-right, certainly not "leftist."

Defund the Police is not and NEVER WAS a Democratic slogan!

Fucking morons on this thread.

[quote] Wasn't "defund the police" invented by the Russiapublicans to sound like an antifa chant?

No,

It doesn't matter who started the slogan, what matters is that it got grafted on to democratic candidates and cost us seats in the House. It doesn't matter that defund the police is not actually about defunding the police, it just sounds like it and that's enough for most people.

[quote]Wasn't "defund the police" invented by the Russiapublicans to sound like an antifa chant?

I don't think anyone believes it was fake or a hoax, but I do think it was mostly an academic and activist idea. Activists frequently have trouble coming up with accurate and catchy slogans. No offense to them, but it's been kind of a cliche for decades.

Trump started tweeting that it was a Democratic slogan and a bunch of idiots believed it, because that's where we are right now as a country. Half the people on this thread believe it's a Democratic slogan, that the Democratic Party supported it, that they lost the election because of it, and those same people are also over on the "Psychologists are theorizing that many Trump supporters have mental illness" thread talking about how stupid EVERYONE ELSE is. They have no self-awareness at all.

[quote]It doesn't matter who started the slogan, what matters is that it got grafted on to democratic candidates and cost us seats in the House.

And that happened because people like you wanted to blame Democrats for it, and then blame Democrats for letting it happen.

We've seen it all before. That's how this shit always works. Trump blames the Democrats for "inventing" Defund the Police and then the media and assholes like you say "This is why Democrats suck so bad and are the worst."

The problem is that "Defund the Police" was a very old policy and statement from many many decades ago. I believe WEB DuBois started this over 60 years ago.

I believe it became an unintended catch-phrase based on historical statements but didn't realize how polarizing and counter-productive using this phrase would be.

Just say Reform Police from now own. I do NOT understand why people are still breathing this condemning phrase instead of correcting it.

Have none of these "Defund the Police" and "Black Lives Matter" folks ever seen an episode of COPS?

Of course, we cant watch it now because it's been banned from the airwaves.......

[quote]And that happened because people like you wanted to blame Democrats for it, and then blame Democrats for letting it happen.

Who is this "people like you"? I haven't blamed anybody. But it's no big secret that democrats are bad at messaging. But I understand why democrats are bad at messaging and that it is kind of an unsolvable problem based on the makeup of the party.

R113 thinks that BLM, a corporation which does not have to disclose its funding sources, is an organic populist movement. You probably respond to Nigerian scam emails and join ‘personal empowerment groups’ that turn out to be cults, too.

If you have to explain your slogan then your slogan sucks. If your slogan requires people to not take it at face value but to research the intended meaning behind it, then it’s obviously a shitty one. Own it, don’t defend a slogan which is so dumb and ridiculous that it boggles the mind why Dems allow it to be tagged as a Dem initiative during an election year.

R117, no. Research BLM™.

[quote]No one wants to eliminate police

That is simply not true.

“Fund Our Communities” or “Fund Community Services” is much better than Defund Police.

The problem is not just with the shitty slogan but the actions associated with said slogan. If Defund the Police was just a slogan trotted out at protests, then fine, maybe it wouldn’t have been such a deterrent to voters who sympathize with police reform and want to vote Dem. But no, the slogan had destructive people and actions directed connected to it which got amplified on a national stage because it is an election year.

Dems were caught in between pandering for black votes and trying to portray themselves as safety first party. The latter they meant COVID-19 but for many voters it’s both that and public safety pertaining to crimes. So there was a mixed message the Dems were trotting out to voters. Also, it’s simplistic to assume predominantly black and Latino communities want less police presence. Without police presence many of these communities would devolve into the wild west, with residents at the mercy of criminals.

I don’t get how anyone can look at the actions of police and be against this. They basically act like a corrupt criminal organization. Why is it okay that our taxpayer money is being wasted for this?

Against what, though? Defunding, reforming or abolishing? They each mean different things.

Democrats need to do something pretty fast to proactively show support for the police. YES. They must do that to gain some credibility back with the moderates of the nation. The Dems are for whatever reasons being sunk like a German battleship over this term of art and they now must put on their adult diapers and show support for the police.

Get guns off the street with mandatory jail for criminals who have them, doesn't matter if they are black, white or brown, lock them up with illegal guns. Let the Dems lead on this charge.

If the Dems lose the Senate, which is expected, it will give Biden the perfect set up to push back on the far left and tell them NO. Maybe a silver lining for many moderate Dems and Reps.

Things do work out with time.

No one wants to hear this, but the key is striking a balance between social justice and not scaring white people. When you talk about doing away with the police and socialism, even if that’s not your intention, it scares white people. Not the white people on the coasts, but the white people in the places that can make a difference between a democratic congress and a republican one. And while some of you may say screw nervous white people, it is important to remember that they have numbers on their side and they vote.

The article at R123 was the one I mentioned at R32

WTF were they thinking by running that

The GOP used it in multiple ads-- "The NYT wants to abolish the police!"

As a lifelong Dem, Defund the police was impossible to defend and I honestly understood why people voted against Trump but for other Reps down the ticket.

There was one Dem, Nancy Gorloff, running for Congress in NY who was attacked for her Defund the police position. She ran ads saying it wasn't true then the other side ran more ads of her denial with her at a Black Lives Matter rally holding a sign which said Defund the Police. Nancy lost.

R130 what you said is also part of the problem with regards to message. Do you honestly feel non-white voters want less policing and more socialism when the polls indicate otherwise? Only white far-left liberals who have no non-white friends or no interactions with POC honestly believe this. I have black and Latino friends and colleagues, some going back 20 years; I also interact with black and Latino patients from all socioeconomic backgrounds. Majority don’t hate the police and they don’t want socialism. The only people I hear talking favorably about defunding police and establishing socialism in this country are mainly white leftists. Socialism has been a disaster for POC (not to mention gay people) historically around the world.

15% of black men under age 45 supported Trump and/ or identity as conservative. Black business owners and professionals are not for these policies. That’s not including those who consider themselves decidedly NOT Democrats. It’s insulting to black and Latino voters to think that they don’t want to live in safe communities or that they all want socialism.

My wording may have been off R133, but I agree. Most people do not want this, black, white or brown. This stuff comes from a very select and very loud few.

I like Andrew Yang’s idea of police having to be purple belt in jiu-jitsu. Takes about at least 2 years to get a purple belt; jiu-jitsu is effective for physically controlling and containing combative opponent without injuring them. Here’s a very well-written article about why it’s a good idea but also impediments in implementation.

R134 yes it’s a small group of vocal activists who wrongly convinced the Dems, with the help of the media, that people want defunding the police and socialism. I think liberal media outlets have been controlling the narrative that POC want these policies and Dems bought the narrative wholesale instead of going into communities and talking to people.

From the linked article:

“ Mr. Yang’s statement “I think everyone would be safer” sums up the belief that if police officers were ranked and trained in BJJ that the public and officers would be safer. The notion being that officers are less likely to use firearms or more “aggressive” physical tactics if they had BJJ in their tool box. Many of the young officers coming into the career field have little or no exposure to conflict and true violence until they become police officers. They don’t know what it is like to have another person trying to impose their will on them in a physical manner. This can make it difficult to make a proper use-of-force decision, the miscalculation can range from underreaction (resulting in avoidable harm to the officer) or overreaction (resulting in avoidable harm to the subject). BJJ gives constant exposure to conflict and the management of it in a controlled environment and in a progressive manner.”

The Dems lost a good one in the House. Mr. Rose is a decorated Veteran and he was tarred with the Defund the Police and for being a DeBlasio yes man. Not true, but effective. We now have a Rep full on batshit crazy lunatic taking the seat. Great job AOC and DeBlasio you are both are priceless.

[quote]Many of the young officers coming into the career field have little or no exposure to conflict and true violence until they become police officers. They don’t know what it is like to have another person trying to impose their will on them in a physical manner. This can make it difficult to make a proper use-of-force decision, the miscalculation can range from underreaction (resulting in avoidable harm to the officer) or overreaction (resulting in avoidable harm to the subject). BJJ gives constant exposure to conflict and the management of it in a controlled environment and in a progressive manner.”

This nails part of the solution to the problem. Police should get much better and longer training before joining force than they're now, and the training should ne standardized nationally. Today it's a jumble mess of requirements by jurisdiction, some places you are on the force with like a couple weeks training.

Another part of the problem is bias and racism, and that needs a lot more than just technical training. Regardless, it's easier to start with training standards and go from there. I think most Americans will be on board with this approach. Defund was such a misjudged slogan given where half the country is. You can't just ignore that reality.

Democrats really need to get smart and even machiavellian to be able to do good and avoid getting branded with 'defund' and 'take away your guns'.

The Dems who control the big cities and urban areas need to show they are tough on crime in some way. Right now, you say Democrat and most people say weak on crime and they allow the criminals to roam freely, by ending stop and frisk for example. NYC has seen the crime rate rise up and the police feel they have no ability to control the situation under DeBlasio. The Dems don't lift a finger to help people feel safe. Blaming and shifting responsibility they do very well.

[quote] She ran ads saying it wasn't true then the other side ran more ads of her denial with her at a Black Lives Matter rally holding a sign which said Defund the Police

So she was lying?

[quote]Police should get much better and longer training before joining force than they're now, and the training should ne standardized nationally.

Someone here looked up how easy it is to be a police officer. It varies a bit from area to area but they even make it easy in some areas to transfer if one has problems at one location.

So you could have a bunch of complaints and still be able to move somewhere else and continue to work. They also seem to make it easier in some places to be one if you've been in the military.

All of that needs to be fixed with extensive background checks, mental health checks and medical histories. I know they say it's hard to get people to be police officers but it's a field that can attract people who have no business being an officer.

Yes, I think most Americans can get behind strengthening the qualifications for becoming a police officer and setting up national reporting on complaints against police. We need to start from some common ground acceptable to majority of people, and go from there.

Just now some back guy on Brian William stated that the moderate-district Dems shouldn't be blaming Defund because it was about black people. They should be blaming themselves because they didn't get a strong message out to counteract "republican talking points." ---Bitch, these talking points cost seats in Congress. Why don't you try getting elected in conservative middle America, if you're so good at messaging.

Why not start a pilot program with 100 ultra libs going into the police academy and then patrolling the streets of the South Bronx for a year and have them report back. It might be a revelation to many.

Lol, R144. Great idea.

I live in a small town in the Midwest. We have a total of 8 police officers. Right now there are only four men on the force.

No one has applied for the positions. There used to be a lot of competition for the jobs, now no one wants to be a policeman...... It's been more than five months.....and nothing.

Twitter leftists are a threat to the Party. Cut them loose

I disagree with everything Melania thinks and whispers.

[quote] I have black and Latino friends and colleagues, some going back 20 years; I also interact with black and Latino patients from all socioeconomic backgrounds.

Oooh. Can I touch you?

Any given year there are tens of thousands of people taking the NYPD exam.

Like that, R12. I've also heard "Re-fund Social Services".

r112 If you understand the details of DEFUND THE POLICE, congratulations. You pay attention. The distinction you made was lost on far too many VOTERS. I capitalize that because that's who puts our elected officials into office and too many swing district democrats got demolished on election day.

It was predictably lost on most voters. You don’t adopt a mantra that is wildly politically unpopular period.

Defund the police and socialism (AOC, Bernie) will be the two themes of the Georgia senate races. They will be successful in this approach.

Actor Rick Moranis, a longtime NYC resident, is against defund the police. He can speak from experience. In a perfect world he would send the hospital bill to Mayor DeBlasio who could pay it from the luxury hotel fund that he has wastefully set up from taxpayer money which spends close to $60,000 per individual homeless person (so far) to place them in lovely private rooms in city hotels. NYC is in a downward fall into hell thanks to the mayor.

He was caught.

He looks like Isiah Washington from Greys Anatomy

[quote] I voted Biden to rid the world of Trump but will not support another DeBlasio or AOC and their wastefully inefficient policies.

What wasteful, inefficient policy does AOC support?

[quote] Actor Rick Moranis, a longtime NYC resident, is against defund the police. He can speak from experience.

Yet it was a mentally ill person who attacked him. If we spent as much on mental illness as we do on policing, the crime may not have even happened

[quote] Defund the police and socialism (AOC, Bernie) will be the two themes of the Georgia senate races.

And these same two topics brought black voters out in droves, some waiting over 11 hours in line to vote.

[quote] I live in a small town in the Midwest. We have a total of 8 police officers. Right now there are only four men on the force. No one has applied for the positions. There used to be a lot of competition for the jobs, now no one wants to be a policeman...... It's been more than five months.....and nothing.

How many police officers does your small town need? Is there a ton of crime to solve?

I somehow doubt that the Defund the Police movement in the big cities are affecting that small town in the Midwest

[quote] It was predictably lost on most voters. You don’t adopt a mantra that is wildly politically unpopular period.

No Dem candidate adopted "Defund the police" just like no Dem candidate adopted "Let's be Socialist!"

The GOP conflates what a small group in the Dem party believes to the entire Dem Party. People are stupid so they believe anything that is repeated over and over again.

Dems need to keep pushing that the GOP only wants the rich to succeed and will rob you of your money to do it.

R163 VERY tired trope.

[quote] The Dems lost a good one in the House. Mr. Rose is a decorated Veteran and he was tarred with the Defund the Police and for being a DeBlasio yes man. Not true, but effective.

The fact that he won that seat at all in the middle of a very conservative Staten Island district is the miracle of 2018. We knew that, no matter what he stood for, the GOP would retake the seat in 2020.

It has absolutely nothing to do wit DeBlasio, or Defund the Police. That district almost always votes GOP

[quote] The Dems who control the big cities and urban areas need to show they are tough on crime in some way. Right now, you say Democrat and most people say weak on crime and they allow the criminals to roam freely, by ending stop and frisk for example. NYC has seen the crime rate rise up and the police feel they have no ability to control the situation under DeBlasio. The Dems don't lift a finger to help people feel safe. Blaming and shifting responsibility they do very well.

Stop and Frisk never reduced crime. In fact, when it stopped, crime went down even more. No Dem wants criminals to go free--they just dont want every minority male treated like a criminal. The justice system also preys on the poor, keeping them languishing in jail if they can't make bail.

The GOP made inroads in the NY Senate by claiming that the Dems want to end bail and let criminals out. The truth of course is different--we can't keep people in jail before they have had a trial just because they can't afford bail. But what the GOP is really saying, and was understood by those who voted for the GOP, is "Lock up as many black people as you can."

The GOP made up yet another slogan to hang on Dems and Dems, yet again, have to explain why they don't support that slogan.

It's been the story of Dems for a generation at least.

Why the f don't the Dems ever go on the offensive? The GOP wants to take all your money and shovel it to the rich. The GOP wants to take all your rights away to satisfy the Evangelical.

"Defund the Police" was the motto of protestors, not the entire Dem Party. It was far more nuanced than the phrase seems. The GOP was able to use the police to get people scared. The GOP doesnt give a shit about the working class people who make up the police but is happy to use them to win.

The class warfare bullshit tends to break down when you consider "the rich" tend to support democrats. Also when you remember the primary victims of these habitual criminals the mayor and governor unleash back onto the streets are the poor.

Anthony Manson, 50, was arrested for nine burglaries in Prospect Lefferts-Gardens and Crown Heights on Dec. 23, police said. He appeared before a judge on Christmas and was released — only to be busted for six more break ins on Jan. 3, cops said. He was released yet again — and then was nabbed for ripping off a Manhattan sunglasses store on Wednesday.

Even Manson was stunned when he walked out of court for the alleged burglary of the West Village sunglasses store, Center Stage Optique. A police officer said he saw Manson leave the store at 1:50 a.m. through a broken glass door carrying a stash of shades worth $3,995. He had a rock — a burglary tool of choice — in a suitcase, according to a criminal complaint.

“I’m surprised,” Manson said outside Manhattan Criminal Court on Thursday after receiving his third order of supervised release. “I never could make bail before. I always had to take the alternative: a program or jail.

[quote]I somehow doubt that the Defund the Police movement in the big cities are affecting that small town in the Midwest.

R161 you'd be surprised. Law enforcement can use their power any way they want in any size town. Traditional power structures put police at the top, and they can strongarm council members, or even a weak mayor, into giving them whatever they want. Sometimes it takes intervention by "the people" to set things right. I watched this happen in a town of 1,700 near me recently.

The BLM and Defund the Police movements which did in some cases descend into riots which had nothing to do with protesting for civil right and only to do with thefts were supported by Dems. Everyone knows this. And I see no nuance in the slogan Defund the Police and how anyone can beggars the imagination.

There are wealthy liberal whites who still feel the poor have the right to destroy and steal because they have been treated so poorly. Of course these are people who are well protected in their gated communities. This is terrible for the Dems because Biden should have won with a helluva lot more than 5 million votes.

"Yet it was a mentally ill person who attacked him. If we spent as much on mental illness as we do on policing, the crime may not have even happened."

Oh, it would have happened all right. The guy is a criminal, a violent creep. I'm sick of hearing mental used as an excuse for criminal behavior and how if the person had only gotten the help he needed he wouldn't have committed the rape or murder or theft, boo hoo hoo. All the help in the world won't change the behavior of some people.

[quote] The class warfare bullshit tends to break down when you consider "the rich" tend to support democrats. Also when you remember the primary victims of these habitual criminals the mayor and governor unleash back onto the streets are the poor.

No, the uber-rich overall support the GOP. And the GOP's main objective is to keep them rich.

Sure, habitual offenders should not be released back to the streets---but you can't keep people in jail solely because they can't pay bail. Remember, these people havent been convicted of anything.

[quote] the uber-rich overall support the GOP.

What world do you live in? Maybe a few aging oil barons in Texas do, but most of the ultra rich are high tech and Wall Street, almost ALL of which support Dems. NYC and SF are blue as can be.