Jacqueline Kennedy's 1962 White House Tour

All I can remember was how her feet would arrive in a room before the rest of her.

Kikiki

There are short clips of it still on YouTube. But the whole film -- which was nearly an hour long -- is gone.

Dailymotion has it. Try to remember where you were when it goes to an ad. They are bad about not directing you back to your timestamp.

All I can remember is how her eyes were so wide-set

she could stand in the Hallway and look at two different White House rooms on opposite side of the hallway at the same time

* That's such a wonderful quality in a tour guide

Thank you, R3.

Is the parody album version still up?

She was not a beautiful woman at all. I’d say this to Mom and she’d respond with “she doesn’t have to be; she’s chic and glamorous.”.

Jackie told Ethel and the Kennedy sisters once that she had wanted to be a ballerina as a kid. Ethel pointed at Jackie’s feet and said, “With those clodhoppers? You’d be better off trying out for soccer, kid,” as Eunice, Pat and Jean doubled over in laughter.

Thanks for this thread and the replies. I'm watching this start to finish today. I've seen bits of it but never the whole enchilada.

And, Jackie was beautiful.

Hiya kiddo, R8,

Thanks for the reminder.

Yeah I've always been witty and beautiful

not to mention the FIRST Kennedy daughter-in-law

Yeah, I was a tough act to follow!

(Poor Jacqueline-Rhymes-with-Queen was very jealous of me too!)

R9 I liked it. I’ve never been on a White House tour before. She was a bit awkward… She must’ve been nervous as hell and that’s understandable.

The Kennedy sisters and Ethel were very jealous of Jackie. They didn't make it easy to be a part of that family. Once Joan joined the family, she and Jackie became friends.

I went to the White House Historical Association to look for it for you. They certainly refer to it but they don't have it either. They do have some photos. But I did find an article that was really interesting. About Jackie's secret return to the White House, about their portraits and President Nixon and Pat. I had no idea the Kennedy's had given a Monet to the White House! Anyway, this visit was pretty cool if it really happened this way.

I'm looking at more now. Great site. Gets my mind off of things.

I quite enjoy this site.

Jackie was smart enough to connect with the old man and Jack's brothers rather than what she called "those toothy Kennedy girls" and Ethel.

Even though the White House tour was produced by CBS, it was also broadcast simultaneously on both NBC and CBS.

Unheard of today.

That dour old daughter of her's probably had it removed for some sort of copyright infringement. Caroline's a real gash and a half.

[quote]The Kennedy sisters and Ethel were very jealous of Jackie. They didn't make it easy to be a part of that family. Once Joan joined the family, she and Jackie became friends.

That's true. The Kennedy sisters were coarse, and of course Jackie wasn't. Jackie and Joan got along very well because they were both introverts who hated sports and loved art, music and literature. They had a lot in common.

"Jackie Kennedy imitated my voice when she did the tour of the White House on TV" - Jayne Mansfield

Jackie and Jayne do sound oddly similar.

But there's a lot of Little Edie voice of course.

Jackie was not using cue cards or a teleprompter. She was doing it extempore and mostly in one take. The retake was done on JFK's part at the end. Three hours after taping Jackie hosted a state dinner.

Little Edie and Jackie sounded very similar.

Jackie chain smoked during every break in the taping, dropping ashes everywhere.

Quite the scandal, actually

The real mastermind behind the White House restoration was Jayne Wrightsman.

Jackie was just the face of it, Jayne was the force.

Of the three Kennedy sisters Jackie was closest to Jean, they were the same age, as were their kids, and Jean was more refined than the other two.

From what I’ve read her relationship with Pat was the most distant. Jackie didn’t appreciate JFK meeting Marilyn through the Rat Pack and using the Lawford home for sex. Also, after Pat divorced Peter Lawford Jackie went to Hawaii with her kids and invited Peter and the Lawford children to join them, which pissed Pat off. Finally, at Sydney Lawford’s wedding in 1983 Jackie moved Peter’s place card so he sat next to her and not Jackie. Apparently Pat Lawford had an assistant who was told when he was hired to never mention Jackie or the assasinations in her presence.

* Finally, at Sydney Lawford’s wedding in 1983 Jackie moved Peter’s place card so he sat next to her and not Jackie.

Should have read

Finally, at Sydney Lawford’s wedding in 1983 Jackie moved Peter’s place card so he sat next to her and not Pat.

As refreshing as a drive through Dallas with the top down.

At one time, the Kennedy Library website had the video available, or it may have just linked to the YouTube video.

This is pretty cool. Color footage of the Kennedy White House, May of 1963

[quote]Try that Slovenian whore.

Give me her number and I'll be glad to give her a try.

I just finished watching the whole thing, and she was delightful. This type of thing would never be done this way today, of course, and you can tell she's got her talking points rehearsed and learned, but there are some great candid glimpses of Jackie.

Also - how awesome that at the end, when JFK comes in, he says "or a girl" when referring to children watching who might be President some day! Wow! How awesome of him!

Alas, viewers were denied a look at the White House swimming pool, where JFK liked to swim naked with whichever female staffer was available.

It's true that Jackie smoked like a chimney between takes, she also was slugging scotch. She was very nervous doing this.

I love the Norman Mailer comment that she seemed completely stoned during the White House tour. She put on the weirdest affect for it, tried as hard as she could to suppress the Long Island accent and greatly slowed down the way she normally spoke. (There's a hilarious parody of it in the "chocolate mouse" dream sequence in "Rosemary's Baby.)

If you ever want to hear how she really spoke when she didn't think the public was listening, this is what she really sounded like. This is the style of speaking (with the quicker tempo and the broader Long Island accent) Natalie Portman imitated for the greater part of "Jackie." I love how she disgustedly compares Lady Bird to "a trained hunting dog."

Yet, R34, the two former First Ladies became close later in life.

Great thread. The silent walk through the Kennedy White House was cool.

R34 - it’s not a Long Island accent, exactly; but the weird “mid-Atlantic” way that wealthy people spoke during the first half of the 20th century - it does have some New York-y pronunciations mixed in. . Little Eddie; and FDR also spoke this way.

“The Mid-Atlantic accent, or Transatlantic accent,[1][2][3] is a cultivated accent of English blending together features of both American and British English (specifically Received Pronunciation for the latter) that were considered the most prestigious by the early 20th-century American upper class and entertainment industry. It is not a native or regional accent; instead, according to voice and drama professor Dudley Knight, it is an affected set of speech patterns "whose chief quality was that no Americans actually spoke it unless educated to do so".[4] Primarily fashionable in the first half of the 20th century, the accent was embraced in private independent preparatory schools, especially by members of the Northeastern upper class, as well as in schools for film and stage acting.[5]“ —Wikipedia

R35, True. Lady Bird and Hillary Clinton were the only First Ladies invited to Jackie's funeral.

R34, There's a moment during the Schlesinger audio recordings where young JFK, Jr. comes into the room making noise.

Jackie yells "Out!" at him and when he asks "Why?", she shouts "Out!" even louder.

It's a funny moment and it shows Jackie to be just like any other mother of young children.

The former First Ladies that were alive when Jackie died in 1994 were Lady Bird Johnson, Betty Ford, Rosalynn Carter, Nancy Reagan and Barbara Bush. I don’t think she really knew Betty or Bar. She met Nancy a few times, although Nancy liked to play that up as a great friendship.

The Kennedys and Carters didn’t like each other, of course; there’s a great picture of Jackie and Jimmy Carter (in the link ) at the Kennedy library dedication in 1979. Carter kissed Jackie on the cheek and she was pissed.

Nobody liked Nancy Reagan. They all thought she was a cunt.

Jackie’s upbringing left scars. She and Lee had very unpleasant sides to their personalities. We all do, but Jackie has gone from my second most favorite FLOTUS to one of my least favorite. Only Nancy and Melanoma surpass her in terms of cuntitude.

Lee was a homophobe, apparently.

R40, that was on the eve of Teddy's announcement of his long-anticipated campaign against Jimmy Carter for the nomination. While most, if not all, Kennedys would end up voting for Reagan, Jackie cast her presidential ballot for John Anderson in 1980.

I’d give anything to see Lee’s TV movie version of LAURA. They say that she was craptacular. But I think that ABC didn’t save the video. ☹️

Yes, one of those lost things I’d love to see.

Maybe a double-bill with Joan Crawford’s episodes of The Shitfaced Storm.

R45, The Paley Center in NYC has a copy of it. They had a public showing several years ago.

R43, She married director Herbert Ross, who was gay.

I'd also add Liza's EVITA screen test, r46.

R42: You seem to missing famous cunts like Bar Bush and Mamie Eisenhower, not to mention useless nonentities like Laura Bush. Despite her anti-semitism, the most admirably nasty FLOTUS was Bess Truman. She hated DC and made good on her dislike by staying away as much as she could. Rosalyn Carter is much more admired now than she was as First Lady---like Jimmy, she was considered a fairly annoying person by a great many people.

If we're talking about Bess's anti-semitism, R50, let's not forget that Eleanor, her immediate predecessor, was famously anti-Catholic.

It's a shame it wasn't filmed in color.

R52, Television broadcasts in color were rare in 1962.

NBC was first with "Bonanza" in 1959, but who had a color television in 1959?

I believe it was Mamie who Jackie most especially disliked.

Florence Harding was a huge cunt. Nasty, bitter woman.

R55, You would be too if your mother named you Florence.

The photo at R40 reminds me of Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother complaining about Jimmy Carter kissing her when they met. "I cannot believe his audacity. He is the first man to kiss me on the LIPS since my husband died."

I actually bought the VHS tape of it (mid-90s). Don't know what happened to it.

Jimmy Carter kissed the Queen Mum...on the lips???

Jackie was a bitch who was revered by women in this country (USA). She proved herself to be a whore.

PDA

Oh shut up r60. A billionaire with one foot in the grave wanting to marry you is the dream of most people.

In Robert Pierpoint's (veteran CBS news reporter) autobiography, he wrote about the two sides of Jackie.

Early administration, Pierpoint and his wife were invited to a outdoor picnic by the Kennedys (it may have been the annual Easter Egg roll) - Pierpoint and his wife were overwhelmed by Jackie's friendliness and kindness to them. The Pierpoints had brought their young son to the picnic, and Jackie insisted on taking the Pierpoints into the WH house and putting their son in the play pen with her son John. She treated them as if they were longtime family friends.

But on other occasions, Pierpoint found that Jackie would cut him dead - just glare at him and refuse to acknowledge him.

The fraus were crazy about her. There was nothing really classy about her, not really. Small minded and greedy. With that porpoise-like head and those gunboats for feet.

She was glamorous and , yes, "classy" compared with that drunk braless frump with the ugly bangs, Mamie Eisenhower.

R65 . . .

"She was the essence of femininity and the ideal of American womanhood in the 1950s, determined to project a youthful and stylish image despite being a grandmother in her fifties. American women loved her because they identified with her. Mamie was “one of them”–the woman next door. Her famous bangs, styled by Elizabeth Arden in Paris, completed what became the “Mamie Look,” a modified version of the revolutionary, postwar “New Look.” Mamie Eisenhower had a natural sense of style that she personalized with her well loved accessories: a pearl choker and button earrings, a charm bracelet, glittery pins, little fitted hats, and a mink stole or full-length fur coat. Throughout her life, Mamie cultivated a fascination with clothes and fashion, and appeared, consistently, on the “Best Dressed” lists during her White House years. One way to nearly guarantee Mamie Eisenhower’s attendance at any event was to hold a fashion show."

Mamie Eisenhower was the frumpiest frump of the 20th Century.

I just finished Jolie Gabor's book (as told to Cindy Adams), and there was an amusing anecdote (and a photo) of Jolie begging her friend Mamie to, "Let Jolie do something with your bangs, darling." Mamie adamantly refused, saying Ike liked them just the way they were. From the looks of the pic, it was in the early 70s when they all lived in Palm Springs. I've tried to find it online and I can't.

Mamie had a set of diagrams from her hairdresser that showed how to set her hair so that when she traveled with Ike, any hairdresser could maintain her trademark hairdo.

Why is Laura Bush a nonentity? LOL, she is a pretty mute person and not really visible as a former first lady. You only see her at inaugurations and other special events.

"The Kennedy sisters and Ethel were very jealous of Jackie. "

They weren't "jealous" of her. They were contemptuous of her, though. They laughed at how stuck up and reserved she was and they made fun of her big feet. Jackie once said she had aspirations to be a ballerina and one of the Kennedy sisters said that with her "clodhoppers' she'd be better off trying out for soccer.

Mamie was a C U N T cunt: "As described in multiple biographies, including Upstairs at the White House by J. B. West, Eisenhower was reportedly unhappy with the idea of John F. Kennedy coming into office following her husband's term. Despite new First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy having given birth to her son John Jr. via caesarean section two weeks prior, Eisenhower did not inform Kennedy that there was a wheelchair available for her to use while showing her the various sections of the White House. Seeing Eisenhower's displeasure during the tour, Kennedy kept her composure while in Eisenhower's presence, finally collapsing in private once she returned home. When Mamie Eisenhower was later questioned as to why she would do such a thing, the former First Lady simply stated, "Because she never asked."[17][18]" - Wikipedia

Ethel Kennedy was coarse, crude, obnoxious and had a jealous mean streak. She's lucky Jackie never socked her in the face. She deserved it on a few occasions.

Jackie died at 64 and Ethel is now 92.

Life is unfair.

R10, R73 Ethel's upright family, the Skakels of Greenwich

All of them were cunts.

Save for Eleanor, Betty, Rosalynn, Michelle. Laura Bush killed a man and dodged a well deserved prison sentence. Because southern white privilege.

And maybe Jackie was a more decent person than Melanoma. But that’s a low bar.

It was Ethel who talked Bobby into running for President. He didn't think he should. But she wanted to - show Jackie.

I loved the film. Jacqueline Kennedy brought grace and elegance to the White House.

Ethel was insanely jealous of Jackie. Jackie just thought Ethel was common and mostly ignored her.

Ethel looks like a shar pei.

"Ethel Kennedy was coarse, crude, obnoxious and had a jealous mean streak."

Ethel Kennedy was none of those things. She was a contrast to Jackie, though; she was/is a very open, unpretentious, energetic sort, where as Jackie was snobbish and self-contained. Ethel was a real Kennedy; she fit right in. Jackie did not. When asked to describe Jackie in one word, JFK said "fey." She was NOT like the boisterous, competitive, chattering Kennedys; she was tasteful and elegant but she would never fit in. Among the Kennedys she stuck out like a sore thumb.

And jealous? I think if anybody was jealous it was Jackie. I think she probably envied Ethel's capacity for breeding. Ethel could pop those babies out and give her Irish Catholic husband a huge brood, whereas Jackie's pregnancies usually ended in miscarriages or stillbirth. And after JFK's death death Ethel offered to "share (her word)" Bobby with Jackie. If she'd indeed been jealous of Jackie I doubt she would have made THAT offer.

Sister Parrish was hired to redecorate the First Family’s living quarters and was fired because she reportedly kicked Caroline!

Ethel was certainly jealous of Jackie, esp. when she was first lady. And she was crass and obnoxious.

You're wrong, R83. You don't know much about Ethel Kennedy OR Jackie Kennedy Onassis.

No I'm right. Lots of info to read about this. The bios paint Ethel as being very jealous that Jackie was first lady, and also about Jackie's popularity.

A lot of bios are bullshit, R85. A lot of bios love to create juicy gossip, and that depiction of Ethel Kennedy sounds like shit you'd read in a tabloid. I don't think Ethel Kennedy envied Jackie one bit. Ethel Kenned was very happy and fulfilled with her marriage and family. That certainly wasn't the case with Jackie. Her marriage was a horror story.

I've never read a bio on Ethel, but I know enough about her to know she didn't suffer fools. She knew Bobby fooled around, but she knew she had him hooked with all the kids. It was all fun and games until he got killed, but even then she didn't go around having every bridge, airport, and library named after him like Jackie did after JFK's death.

It's been written about over and over r86. And in the reputable bios with first-person interviews.

r87 JFK was the fucking President of the United States. RFK was not. BIG difference.

Ethel and Jackie had a Competitive relationship-Ethel was indeed jealous of Jackie and she was not happy at all when RFK and Jackie got close after JFK’s assassination. That said, they were still family -Jackie paid for a new roof for Hickory Hill in the 70s when Ethel was having a cash flow problem and nobody else in the family would step up.

Anyone who wants to know the truth about Ethel should read "The Other Mrs. Kennedy" by Jerry Oppenheimer.

Ethel has been an entitled bitch all her life, born into wealth and married wealthy.

You could fill an arena with all of the shop owners, caterers, taxI drivers and repairmen she has left unpaid over her adult life.

She's a nasty piece of work and was a horrible mother to her brood, especially after Bobby died.

I can't imagine Ethel having cash flow problems, given that she's always had access to two fortunes. Kennedy and Skakel.

If Jackie, indeed, sprung for a new Hickory Hill roof, it might have been for sentimental reasons. She and Jack were the original owners of it, selling it to Bobby and Ethel.

It was after I sprang for new roofs on Hickory Hill and Grey Gardens that my own years of destitution began.

And so you mourn...our Jackie...

If Ethel Kennedy was "jealous" of Jackie Kennedy, then why, after JFK's death, did she tell her, referring to Bobby, "I'll share him with you?" If you believe the yammerings on this thread, she hated Jackie with a white hot passion due to her "jealousy." But what "jealous" woman would offer to share her husband with the woman she despised? That's one, just one reason why I think all the talk about Ethel being jealous of Jackie is sheer gossip, sheer bullshit. Actually Ethel was very happy and content with her life, whereas Jackie was plagued by a husband who fucked anything and her inability to give him the big family he wanted. And of course Ethel fitted in with the Kennedys perfectly whereas Jackie never did. Ethel had no reason to jealous of Jackie. As far as her being "jealous" of her being first lady, well, that sounds like more horseshit. Ethel had her hands full already with her brood; she wasn't clamoring to get into the White House. But whatever Bobby did politically she supported him, and if he had become President she would relished being First Lady. And what a First Lady she would have been! She was a fireball; she would have done SO much as First Lady, so much more than Jackie ever did.

Ethel was jealous of Jackie as first lady and all the attention she got. It's documented in numerous books

Whatta ya mean when WE are back in the White House?

"Ethel was jealous of Jackie as first lady and all the attention she got. It's documented in numerous books."

As it's been said, a lot of books, especially about the Kennedys, contain bullshit. A catfight between Jackie and Ethel? How delicious! Yes, I can see why that would be in "numerous books." It would certainly be titillating t0 readers who love juicy gossip. Who cares if it's true or not? It would sell!

By the way, there's a good biography of Robert Kennedy, "Robert Kennedy: His Life" by Evan Thomas. It tells ALL about Bobby Kennedy, and his wife Ethel. And nowhere does it ever say she was "jealous" of Jackie. It's not that kind of biography. It's a GOOD one; well-written, well researched, unbiased and does not contain any sensational gossip.

Nobody said there was a catfight, Ethel was just jealous of Jackie. God, it's been documented in many sources. And not just tabloidy sources.

The ones that are "above" gossip and less-than-flattering stories aren't worth reading. They don't give you the whole picture.

" God, it's been documented in many sources."

"Documented", like hell. It's GOSSIP. And it needs to be said again: what "jealous" woman would offer to "share" her husband with the woman she was supposedly jealous of? I notice the Ethel haters haven't been able to come up with an explanation for THAT.

Jackie went to great lengths to limit Caroline and John, Jr.'s interaction with Bobby and Ethel's kids believing that they were a bad influence.

The most stable members of the Kennedy family were the Shrivers. Jackie felt most comfortable having her children interact with the Shriver kids.

Christopher Lawford wrote in his book that it was Sargent and Eunice Shriver who provided more of a family unit to him than his own parents.

Oh shut up r100 and just read any of the books on Jackie.

It's also true that Jackie severely limited John and Caroline's contact with Ethel's kids because they were so wild and had no supervision.

R100, Ethel never offered to share Bobby with Jackie. That is completely false. If anything, Ethel resented the way Jackie leaned on Bobby after JFK died.

I always admired Jackie for basically telling the Kennedys to fuck off and marrying Onassis. She was just done with all their shit.

Jesus....we have an Ethel Kennedy Troll on here!

You could see Ethel Kennedy's Cuntitude from space. She radiates cunt.

She was an imperious bitch with her staff, they couldn't stand her.

Respect the dead. Jackie was a victim. Do not denigrate her. She was a very disciplined and classy woman.

Ethyl looks like a man! Gads!

(R9) What a gorgeous pix of Jackie. Where did you find it? How old was she when it was shot? thx

Thank you for posting the Jackie White House link. She mentions that Latrobe was the architect that did some of the original design or renovation. My eyes perked up. I am from PA and a little town of Latrobe was nearby. I spent hours researching after learning about architect Latrobe, for whom the town was named. Added to my already prodigious history of the area and I then started researching other fascinating historical links. Like the Moravians! No wonder I don't sleep. The COVID has allowed me to expand to doctoral level in my historical research. while laying on the couch.

Data Lounge - this is the most profound thread I have ever read. The compilaton of material is worthy of Kennedy scholars and other historians. Thank you for allowing me to peruse and clarify information that I lived through while raising a family, furthering my career and generally relegating politics on the back burner. This entire thread is filled with info that would take hours to compile.

Ethel fan gurling. Bitch had to be restrained.

Why were the Kennedy's so intent on destroying Jimmy Carter?

I can't even believe a sitting democratic president would be primaried by several people. Nowadays, people would be bitching and moaning about "betrayal" and all of that shit because politics has become like sports.

R113, if you're too young to remember, do yourself a favor and read Rick Perlstein's latest, Reaganland. While Carter as an ex-president is lauded for his liberal causes, as president he enraged his fellow Democrats by governing in many ways as a conservative Democrat. And, in addition to Ted Kennedy, Jerry Brown challenged him, as well.

R113, if you're too young to remember, do yourself a favor and read the great Rick Perlstein's latest, Reaganland. Although as an ex-president, Carter is known for taking on liberal causes, as president he enraged so much of his party by governing in many ways as a conservative Democrat. Up until the hostage taking in early November 1979, Kennedy was crushing Carter in the polls. And Jerry Brown also challenged Carter for the nomination.

" Just read any of the books on Jackie."

I've read several. They tend to kiss her ass. Biased in favor of Jackie they are not very reliable. Jackie was fucked up in a lot of ways. But most books about her tend to gloss over that.

R116, agreed. Whether it was deliberate or not, Jackie proclaimed herself a saint alongside JFK. Hence the naming of the airport, the bridges, the roads, the NASA launch site. Even making sure Bunny Mellon plant the Jackie Kennedy Rose Garden at the White House, and installing the "JFK slept here" plaque on a fireplace in the family quarters at the White House. Most people in that time ate it up, but now it seems a bit--if not totally--self serving. And I say this as a fan of Jackie...I remember being 14 when I heard she died, whilst putting an English muffin in the toaster. (I'll "Mary!" myself for that quintessential DL-er memory.) Both my grandparents passed away from lymphoma, and my mum would always tell people, "They had the same kind of cancer Jackie Kennedy had." No disrespect meant, but she was very gung-ho about protecting both of their legacies. Which was, of course, her prerogative. My point is that Ethel Kennedy could've done the same and didn't. There was surely enough public sympathy that she could've had dozens of things named after RFK, the same way MLK has had hundreds--if not thousands--of streets and other things named after him. But Ethel didn't want that, and there's something to be said for that.

Her husband's head exploded in her face. She gets a pass.

^ So what. Her husband exploded in my face too.

R117, The weekend of JFK's assassination, Jackie told assembled family members that she wanted an eternal flame at his grave.

One of the Kennedy sisters offered "Don't you think people will find that ostentatious?"

Jackie's terse reply was "Let them."

Contrast JFK's flashy grave with its eternal flame to Bobby Kennedy's grave, which consists of "an unadorned, white wooden cross and a simple grey granite marker set flush with the earth at the front of it." I think Bobby Kennedy's grave is so much more appropriate and moving. No "ostentatious" memorial for him. I assume Ethel wanted it to be that way. Bobby Kennedy would have wanted it that way, too.

The eternal flame is iconic. Jackie made the right decision.

"Jackie made the right decision."

No, she just wanted her husband's grave to be over the top, better than anyone else's. That's was Jackie all the way. She always want the best and the biggest. And the most expensive, of course.

So fucking what r123? He was the President of the United States who was assassinated. Give the man an eternal flame at his grave. It is known the world over, it's iconic.

[quote]That's was Jackie all the way. She always want the best and the biggest. And the most expensive, of course.

And people are still talking about her, she knew what she was doing.

As for the ostentatious charge, JFK's immediate predecessors, and, in Hoover's absence, the only former presidents in attendance, let it be known that they did not think Kennedy had earned a funeral patterned by Jackie after that of Lincoln, the Great Emancipator.

^^Truman ad Eisenhower

[quote]JFK's immediate predecessors, and, in Hoover's absence, the only former presidents in attendance, let it be known that they did not think Kennedy had earned a funeral patterned by Jackie after that of Lincoln, the Great Emancipator.

Of course they didn't. They knew they'd never get that kind of tribute. They were jealous.

Hoover was an asshole! That's why he was a one term president.

Racist ass Bitch!

Everybody just wanted to forget about Hoover.

R130 Just like Trump! Hopefully we can do that this week.

Hope so anyway.

Let's hope r131! W Bush has already been forgotten, thank god.

finom! honvágyat vált ki belőlem!

R126 You rang.

"They were jealous."

No, they just thought it was unseemly and too much. And it was. Kennedy wasn't much of a President. He didn't deserve all that pomp and circumstance.

He sure did. He was a cultural and social force in America, even though his presidency didn't last long his impact was incredible. He deserved that eternal flame. Kennedy is still part of the cultural and political dialogue today, much more than his immediate predecessors.

"He sure did."

Uh, no. He did little of note while President. He was young (for a President) though, and flashy. That's what he and Jackie both were: flash but no substance. He was also a total sleaze, would fuck anything that moved. He kept his wretched physical health a secret. He took tons of drugs: codeine, Demerol, methadone, Ritalin, meprobamate and librium, barbiturates, thyroid hormone; and injections of a blood derivative, gamma globulin, a medicine that combats infections. Also steroids, painkillers, anti-spasmodics , antibiotics, antihistamines, and on at least one occasion, an anti-psychotic drug to treat a severe mood change that Jackie Kennedy believed was brought on by the antihistamines. The drug taking, of course, was kept secret too. Deserving of "an eternal flame?" Nope.

^ And yet we're still talking about him 60 plus years later.

Jackie chain-smoked through the entire taping of this tour, every time there was a break she’d light up. She was a smoker her entire life but never allowed a photo to be taken of her with a cigarette. . You could get away with things like that back then.

So what r137? lots of prominent people have done drugs. And back then the hazards weren't as well-known as they are now. Christ, people thought smoking was good for you!

R137 The full story of his illnesses and all the drugs he was on came out years after he died, not to mention his prodigious and extremely reckless sexual escapades. It’s pretty remarkable all the shit that was covered up during his time in office.

Jackie was photographed smoking several times. She used a holder. Classy!

"And yet we're still talking about him 60 plus years later."

Sleazebags always get talked about. But it doesn't mean they deserve an ostentatious funeral and an eternal flame.

" lots of prominent people have done drugs. "

Yeah, but they weren't the President of the United States. For a President to be a druggie is serious business indeed.

At the funeral, why was John-John in short pants? It was November. He must have been freezing.

r144 they didn't know as much about drugs back then as they do now. And JFK was a great president. He made Americans feel good about themselves and optimistic. And he avoided WWIII with the Russians.

R145. I’ve always wondered why his mother had him wear a coat dress to his father’s funeral .

Shorts for children used to be an upper-class thing, they still do it in Britain.

[quote]Shorts for children used to be an upper-class thing, they still do it in Britain.

In the 1960s, middle class did it too. My mother dressed me in shorts (shirt with a bow tie). But only in warm weather. When it got cold, I had long pants.

Although most of this Board likes to think that JFK was a liberal icon, it’s worth remembering that, in real time, he was not. At his death, one of the popular news magazines of the era noted that he was the most conservative Democratic president since the 19th century’s Grover Cleveland.

LBJ, dead nearly 48 years, is the last Democrat president to have died.

I couldn't afford long pants.

Don't forget his "B12" injections from the infamous Dr. Feelgood. Too lazy to google his real name.

When there were absolutely no women around, he'd throat fuck his best friend from prep school, Lem something or other, who was on his "personal" staff.

You’re referring to Dr Max Jacobson and Len Billings , r153.

RFK wasn't JFK. No one was banging down Ethel's door to get permission to name airports after him. He was a Senator for about 10 minutes and JFK's Attorney General.

The Kennedys are all overrated. They all had a hand in creating that "Camelot" crap and turning them into America's Golden Family but Jackie is really the one who got that ball rolling after JFK died. They actually owe her for that.

R154, Lemoyne "Lem" Billings was the token gay friend of the Kennedy family. After Bobby died, he played a vital role in the lives of RFK, Jr. and his brother David. He supplied them with drugs and often a place to stay after Ethel turned her back on them out of frustration. RFK, Jr. became Lem's obsession, but there's never been any indication that their relationship ever became sexual.

"And JFK was a great president."

You don't know much about history, do you? He was NOT a great President. There was actually an article in the Washington Post with this title: "Americans think John F. Kennedy was one of our greatest presidents. He wasn’t." Here are some reasons why:

The Cuban Missile Crisis was his fault.

The Bay of Pigs Invasion was his fault

He escalated in Vietnam

He backed an ill-advised coup in Iraq

He went way too slowly on civil rights

He passed no domestic legislation of any consequence

If he had lived, Vietnam never would've become what it did.

If you actually read about JFK's lifetime of illnesses, your mind is blown. The man really suffered and apparently never complained/whined. This was a man who had a real harridan of a mother that wasn't even there most of the time. Joe Kennedy for all his numerous faults was the better parent.

Mrs. O to me was style and class. Plus the mysterious part.

R158, JFK gave an interview to Walter Cronkite not long before he was assassinated in which he clearly stated that the Vietnam War was their war and not our war.

For the record, Eisenhower sent the initial troops there.

One thing JFK and Jackie had in common was that they both had mothers who were nightmares.

R161, And their fathers were both womanizing husbands.

With those feet, I bet that she was able to lock her legs around JFK and hold on for dear life as he pounded her big cranium into the headboard.

Hahahahahaha

I always liked the following joke:

How do you know that Jackie Kennedy is having an orgasm? She drops her fingernail file.

Ethel Kennedy was so competitive and Catholic; she loved giving birth to children; but she had no interest or ability in parenting them.

Ethel's own parents were both alcoholics and she grew up in wealth but total chaos. As a child of an alcoholic family, Ethel was drawn to the Kennedy family, desperate to find what she had missed. And she couldn't just be a part of the Kennedy family - she had to be the "best" Kennedy ever.

Ethel was above all competitive. Her staff used to warn guests invited to play tennis at Hickory Hill that the day would be "very unpleasant" if Ethel didn't win.

Ethel generally ignored her kids or punished them far too severely when they displeased her. Ethel had all but cut David out her family's life by the time he died of overdose. That's the main reason he died in a hotel room at the Breakers.

It was Eunice who parented Ethel's kids as much as she was able. And it was Eunice who arranged for David to go to rehab over and over again. Ethel refused to have David at family events and made her own children afraid of her wrath if they were caught having contact with him.

If you want to know why Jackie married two men she didn't really love, just watch Grey Gardens. That's what happened to women like Jackie if they didn't marry well, she would've ended up like her aunt and cousin.

Is this the time Ethel told Obama to get his hand off of her and go park her Cadillac?

Yes it was, and then she said to Francis "do you speak English?"

Not even Elvis's grave has an eternal flame. However, it looks like the grave does have an eternal bubbling fountain.

IMO, when women keep popping out babies & are married to philanderers, they want to prove something to the other women. "Hey, sluts, we're still fucking!" "I'm still getting pregnant!" "He's still my husband!"

I realize Catholics of that time had lots of children, but eleven is above and beyond. Seven would have been enough.

She walked like a linebacker walking off the field. Hopefully Miss Porter's gave her parents a refund.

[quote][R52], Television broadcasts in color were rare in 1962. NBC was first with "Bonanza" in 1959, but who had a color television in 1959?

Ginger Rogers starred in the October 1954 premiere of Producer's Showcase which would later show Mary Martin in Peter Pan and all of its episodes were in color.

[quote]If you want to know why Jackie married two men she didn't really love, just watch Grey Gardens. That's what happened to women like Jackie if they didn't marry well, she would've ended up like her aunt and cousin.

The difference was that Jackie was willing to go out and get a real job. She married because she knew no job could afford the life of luxury she wanted to live in, but she could have easily found a job in an art gallery or bookstore or museum. After Onassis died, she returned to NYC and worked as a book editor. Neither of the Grey Gardens women were taught that they should get a real job.

R170. Ethel wanted to have more kids than Rose.

But Jackie married money first, before getting a job. And she hardly worked full-time.

Jackie worked as a reporter (starting out as an Inquiring Camera Girl) at the Washington Times-Herald before she met and married JFK.

Wikipedia says that after college, Jackie won an internship at Vogue. She worked there one day and one of the old biddies there convinced her to resign. If Jackie had backbone and completed the internship, maybe she would have had a job like Anna Wintour.

A few years ago, she spent all her pocket money and had to take public transportation for her yearly vacation to Balmoral. Having to ride British Rail really humbled her.

^^^^^^^Oops, that was the wrong thread.

R178, who were you speaking of, out of curiosity? Surely not the Queen, though it seems I recall her riding the public train not long ago and being photographed doing so.

r180, yes it was Queen Elizabeth (I meant that comment for another thread). Back a few years ago, she had to take Brit Rail as a sign that costs were being cut. They had a special car designated just for her.

Well, I did have to use my limited pocket money once to take the crosstown bus to the thrift store.

Did JFK give Jackie syphilis or gonorrhea, and was that why she had problems with pregnancy? Ethel and the Kennedy sisters said she was too “high born” to give birth.

We know, Ms Assistance. The paparazzi were recording your every move!

She probably had what is called a weak cervix. Her uterus just could not hold a fetus once it got a certain weight. Now they sew the pregnant mom up - and once in labor go in and cut the stitches. Such a shame they didn't figure this out earlier.

R185, Caroline, John, Jr. and Patrick were all delivered by Cesarean section.

Several of Ethel's herd were also.

Was Ethel ever really attractive?

I dint know about now, but in the 60s I believe once you had a C-section you had to have all subsequent deliveries the same way. I know that’s what my mom had to do - her pregnancies were all between 63 — 69.

Ethel was attended by the most prominent OB/GYN doctor in Georgetown/DC area for many of her childrens' births - Dr. Donald Rolly Payne

I don't know for certain what he did for Ethel for certain, but my mother's friends believed he was some type of miracle-worker, who had figured out a way for Ethel to give birth with fewer complications and C-section scars.

Dr. Payne, who was purported to be gay, was also married to NBC newscaster Jessica Savitch. In August 1981, he died by hanging himself in their Georgetown home.

There seemed to be a lot of unanswered questions and secrets about all of this...I wonder know if the truth will ever be know.

R189, It was Jessica who came home and discovered his hanging body.

being married to Jessica probably would lead one to hanging.