What was the source of the unhappiness on "Designing Women" among the cast?

Delta looks like Divine in that pic.

You would be unhappy too if you starved yourself all day on camera and had to fight Delta for a bite off the Kraft Services table.

The Bloodworth Thomasons didn't like how fat Burke got.

None of the women would come visit me in the hospital.

It was jarring.

Well Alice G. Maybe they knew how much of a cunt you were. Just like you did when you cut in line in front of me years ago at Ca' Brea in LA because you were a "star" and stars don't need reservations. CUNT.

[quote] Just like you did when you cut in line in front of me years ago at Ca' Brea in LA because you were a "star" and stars don't need reservations.

Well, clearly, she in truth didn't need one.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Did Paul Lynde imitate Alice Ghostley- or did Alice Ghostley imitate Paul Lynde?

I can't imagine Julia Duffy or Jan Hooks were easy sailing either. Judy Ivey OTOH is a total pro.

R10 he took from her. They were friends nevertheless.

Oops

[quote] I can't imagine Julia Duffy or Jan Hooks were easy sailing either. Judy Ivey OTOH is a total pro.

And yet she was the least funny of all of them.

I hated the recent table read without Delta Burke. She was a huge part of the show's success.

Dixie Carter was a rabid Repug .

So is Delta.

Designing Women...one of my all-time favorite shows. Great writing, acting. Love those women.

Jean left delta’s option wasn’t picked up. I remember watching ET when she was filming a TV movie and they were interviewing her and they told her she wasn’t coming back and she stopped the interview and was very upset.

Dixie wasn’t a rapid repug r16.

Yes, she was, R19.

Sorry R19. R20 is right.

She tried to spin it as the libertarian angle but her hubby was a right winger too.

Julia would have hated Trump. In fact all of the women would have hated him.

Julia, yes.

Dixie, no.

Yeah, R23 is correct. What's funny is Julia's attitude and mannerism were way more inline with Republican woman I have known. Especially business woman, the type that were CEO's or ran their own studio.

I liked Delta Burke on the show but in retrospect, considering how far right she and her husband are, I think it's pretty clear that she didn't like the Thomasons for being so involved in the Democratic Party, and her claim that they were "psychologically abusing" her is ludicrous, especially since she worked with Linda a a few years later.

[quote] Yeah, [R23] is correct. What's funny is Julia's attitude and mannerism were way more inline with Republican woman I have known. Especially business woman, the type that were CEO's or ran their own studio.

I've always said the same. Julia SEEMED like a Republican. Dixie played her like one.

The version that I heard from Jean Smart was that Delta was let go because of Gerald McRaney. Once he married Delta, be became husband/manager form hell.

OP, I'm tired of that fake Southern accent of yours. What is this, Designing Women?

Dammit, r14.

WOW. Those videos are DE-pressing. Where exactly does the DW talk start?

Honestly, who cares about Dixie and Delta's political beliefs? Every conversation about DW devolves into "durrr she was a republican durrr." Big woo!

They're relevant.

Given how political the show was.

Given how Dixie just couldn't shut up about how much she disagreed with her character and demanded songs in exchange for having to do her job.

Given how it's possible politics might've led to friction.

Delta and Dixie didn't get along because they were both Republicans.

No, but that was part of the reason they didn’t get always along with the liberal showrunners.

It was weird because Dixie Carter was actually at the 1992 Democratic convention with the Thomasons. I remember being surprised to see her there. Maybe they got her an offer to sing.

I doubt any real issues were caused by politics. It was most likely all about $$$.

[quote]you were a "star"

Have you done a semi-regular on Bewitched, Annie on Broadway or were the inspiration for DL icon Paul Lynde?

You damn right she can go ahead of you. Pleeb..

Dixie was one of those Republicans who loved the gays and goodness and charity and such. A very gracious Southern woman.

Not all of them are hideous.

[quote]Kraft Services

Oh, dear.

Dixie was married to life long Democrat Hal Holbrook, so I think her political leanings are open to debate.

Delta was very mouthy about being a republican. And she got fat and yet wanted to be treated as if she was a raven haired beauty when in fact she looked like Liz Taylor’s fattest years

Gerald McRaney became a later in life Republican, but something tells me he would have no time or stomach for Trump:

Endorsing incumbent Republican President George H. W. Bush for re-election in 1992, McRaney stated: "Most of my life I've been a Democrat, but the last several presidential elections have finally convinced me that I might as well go ahead and admit I'm a Republican."[9] His first presidential vote was for Democrat Hubert Humphrey in 1968.[9] At the 1992 Republican National Convention, McRaney introduced Second Lady Marilyn Quayle.[10]

In 2008, McRaney supported Republican candidate John McCain for president.[11]

Delta strikes me as the sort who votes however her husband is voting. She is indeed pro gay rights:

Burke is a supporter of gay rights,[15] and has worked with openly gay playwright and screenwriter Del Shores on many occasions, in Sordid Lives and Southern Baptist Sissies.[15] In 2006, Burke and openly gay Tennessean actor Leslie Jordan were uninvited from the Nashville talk show Talk of the Town after the show's managing director decided the subject matter to be discussed would offend the conservative viewers.[16] Burke first became supportive of gay people and gay rights through attending acting school in London and also through her sister, Jennifer, who is a lesbian.[15]

It thought the issue was that the show wrote her character, Suzanne, as a superficial person who relied on her looks to get through life. Therefore, it didn't make sense for the character to be overweight. And the show pressured the actress to lose weight.

But then, there was an episode dedicated to Suzanne talking acknowledging her weight gain and telling everyone else to get over it. It seemed like the episode was about personal empowerment and acceptance of self and others. Then, shortly after, Delta was gone. It was very confusing.

True r40, Hal Holbrook has never been a rabid repug. Dixie was a moderate republican with liberal social views.

r22 is correct...

They gave Charlene her moments, OP...

They gave Ivey absolutely zero to work with, r14.

[quote]Burke is a supporter of gay rights

Not if she's a Republican, she isn't.

You simply cannot be pro gay if you're giving money to, supporting, and voting for Republicans. Their platform is specifically anti gay.

Lack of Emmys perhaps?

They won one.

For hairstyling.

Knots Landing was robbed that year.

I'm sure we all know that LBT offered Delta the choice of John Ritter or Gerald to play Dash Goff, the writer. I'm sure she wished Delta would have picked John. And I'm not too surprised that Gerald ended up micro-managing Delta, but what I don't understand is, wasn't he busy enough with Major Dad?

Hal Holbrook supported Obama and supports Biden.

Delta always said she couldn't stand politics. She only goes to political events because of Gerald. But she doesn't declare allegiance to any party.

Jackee was supposed to be a regular but feuded with Dixie and was written out.

Sheryl Lee Ralph personally asked Linda to put her on the show because she was such a fan.

Alice Ghostley's part was written specifically for Alice because Linda Bloodworth loved the movie and book To Kill a Mockingbird.

Linda wrote every episode of season 2.

The choice to play Suzanne's husband came down to John Ritter and Gerald. Delta requested Gerald McRaney because she had the hots for him.

Regardless if they had the series finale or not, Annie Potts was leaving at the end of the seventh season because she had been unhappy with the way the show treated her character for the previous two seasons. It was not a happy set the last three or four years.

That poor hairstylist that won must have gotten HELL from those 4 bitches.

[quote]Alice Ghostley's part was written specifically for Alice because Linda Bloodworth loved the movie and book To Kill a Mockingbird.

What did Alice Ghostley have to do with the BOOK of "To Kill a Mockingbird?"

Jean's departure was apparently amicable - everyone had a five year contract and she wanted to do other things.

But yes, things went very awry between Delta and the Thomasons around Season 4. Most who were there blame it on a combination of Delta's massive insecurities and growing mental health struggles, coupled with Gerald McRaney's bad influence on Delta.

The Thomasons were a bit petty, too, and Linda in particular was getting swept up in the Clinton stuff, but overall, they were no better or worse than most showrunners.

That.s funny, r50. I'm re-watching it and I keep thinking "I didn't remember the hair being quite THAT big....

[quote] Jean left delta’s option wasn’t picked up.

What??

R57 Jean Smart left, and Delta Burke's option wasn't picked up

[quote] They won one. For hairstyling.Knots Landing was robbed that year.

However, Donna Mills was thrilled to take home the Emmy for Best Eye Make-Up to Resemble a Raccoon

It's weird people still discuss this "feud."

Delta and Linda have been close friends now for 25 years.

The feud only lasted about 3 years.

Jan Hooks left her 5 year run (86-91) on Saturday Night Live to do Designing Women but she came back from 92-94 as Hillary Clinton on SNL opposite Phil Hartman's Bill Clinton

Hilarious stuff

I've been binging the 90-91 season of SNL and I completely forgot that Chris Farley started that year and shares a lot of skits with either Hooks or Victoria Jackson, I always remember Farley as the "next era" with Sandler, Spade, Rock, Schneider, Hutsell and Meadows

Say what you will about Victoria Jackson, she claims Jan Hooks hated her, but the Weekend Update sketch with Victoria playing Roseanne Barr and Chris Farley playing Tom Arnold from the 90-91 season, ended with them rolling around and wrestling on the ground, was hilarious

Too many women involved with the show. When you get too many women, you will always get pettiness and grudges; and women hold grudges for years.

Jan fared better than Julia Duffy on DW, but they were both victims of poorly developed characters. When they were cast, Linda said, "Julia is going to play a cousin of the Sugarbakers who has Obnoxious Personality Disorder, and Jan is going to play Charlene's sister who is even more naive than Charlene!" She obviously didn't spend much time conceiving Allison and Carlene.

Delta at her thinnest was never truly thin, at least not in the tv/movie sense of "thin" (which is around ten pounds underweight). The Elizabeth Taylor comment is spot on.

That's a handy out, a total abdication of responsibility for her own thoughts and actions, to claim she only participates in politics because of Gerald.

And that's right, if they ended up voting Republican they can't claim to be pro-gay, because voting R is an inherently anti-gay act.

Delta turned out not to have the star wattage or box office magnitude she thought she did, nor the talent: look at the flop series that followed. When she tried Broadway, it didn't take either: a flop (poorly cast) revival of Steel Magnolias, and a replacement gig in Thoroughly Modern Millie. Interestingly, both Dixie and Leslie Uggams(!) all played that role during the run.

The unrealistic layout of the house exterior versus the interior.

Delta and Dixie were good friends before DW. They were on Filthy Rich together.

Delta was once thought to be a potential Scarlett O'Hara for any kind of GWTW re-do.

r65 The exterior was the Arkansas governor's mansion.

[quote]That poor hairstylist that won must have gotten HELL from those 4 bitches.

Her name is Judy Crown and she talks about it here....

I'm gonna speculate. The fans were tuning in for Suzanne and Delta wanted to be treated as someone whose character was the highlight of the show. Delta's ego along with the ego of the other actors and the creators, plus Delta's weight gain, created a powder keg of passive aggressive bullshit and a line had to be drawn in the sand. Delta had to go. The show limped along until finally being put out of its misery.

Jan Hooks deserved a better career, she was more talented than 99% of most other comedy actors.

[quote]The exterior was the Arkansas governor's mansion.

As Suzanne's house, not Julia's.

I don't think the fans were just tuning in for Suzanne. They were tuning in for all four and Anthony and Bernice (it was a very well cast show in its early years). Burke was the funniest of the six actors, but all six were terrific.

Linda Bloodworth would bitch to the press about how unfair it was that "the girls" would never get nominated while all of the Golden Girls would. They did nominate Delta twice and give Mesasch a nomination, but it never won Best Comedy Series.

R52, I don’t blame Annie Potts for wanting to split after S7 if the show had been renewed. Mary Jo wasn’t a particularly interesting character to begin with, and those last years the writers stuck her with an unfunny recurring joke about her dog Brownie needing a flea dip.

Interestingly, Jackee Harry described everyone on the Designing Women set (minus Annie Potts, who was on maternity leave) as a diva. This was during the Julia Duffy season, when they were testing Jackee to be a regular, so Delta apparently wasn’t the only source of tension.

Also, if you binge watch the show and take a drink every time Charlene says “I can’t believe you just said that!” or Mary Jo enters a scene by saying “Sorry I’m late,” you will have alcohol poisoning by the time Anthony’s incarceration story is retconned.

[quote]Linda Bloodworth would bitch to the press about how unfair it was that "the girls" would never get nominated while all of the Golden Girls would.

The Golden Girls was a much funnier show, with much better actresses. Designing Women was about a bunch of nasty cunts.

Delta threatened to cram a rice cake down Annie Potts’ throat.

They had a Designing Women reunion? Half the cast is dead.

Oh big woo, R76. She threatened to shove Gerald up my ass.

Some white girl.

I think you really had to be from the South to truly enjoy this show.

The excuses for Delta not having any lines in certain episodes of season 4 or 5 were something...in the episode about Bernice's sanity hearing she had a terrible sunburn or something, in another she managed to glue her lips shut, and then she started smoking to lose weight and was forced to sit outside.

Compared to bony Dixie and boyish Annie any gal would look...full figured. Delta didn't look any bigger than the Facts of Life girls; it's too bad she and the producers couldn't see eye to eye on the comedic possibilities of her weight gain.

I thought delta got funnier after the weight gain. The episode where Suzanne had to give back the Miss Georgia crown was one of her best.

She *did* end up getting to keep it though.

[quote] bony Dixie

I’d hardly call her bony. I’m sure part of it was the shoulder pads and bulky 80s fashions but she was a pretty curvaceous gal herself. Didn’t help they often put her in waist-cinching outfits that only accentuated her wide hips.

Now Annie...Annie was bony.

I liked when Delta got bigger, too. It gave us that great "They Shoot Fat People, Don't They?" episode. I thought that one was really moving.

[quote] Interestingly, Jackee Harry described everyone on the Designing Women set (minus Annie Potts, who was on maternity leave) as a diva.

PROJECTION

I never realized how funny Jean Smart could be until I saw her in several episodes of "Frasier" as Lana. She was a hoot, totally different than Charlene.

The first two seasons Designing Women is on IMDB. I think Delta Burke's character is funny. There is an episode where she fostered a young Vietnamese girl. It was sort of sad when the little girl's adoptive parents came to get her.

Jean Smart is probably the funniest one on the show.

R87, go watch The Brady Bunch Movie and revel in Smart’s drunken, cougar character Mrs. Dittmeyer. That was the first thing I saw her in post-Designing Women and was delightfully shocked how different she was.

Delta looks like Chloe from Days of Our Lives in OP’s pic.

I will say that Jean Smart has been incredibly impressive in almost every Post DW role she's taken.

[quote] The episode where Suzanne had to give back the Miss Georgia crown was one of her best.

When she walks into the middle of whatever social gathering and just blurts out "They can take my crown from my cold dead scalp" it was hysterical!

Delta and Dixie each did the Harriet Harris - Beatrice Lillie role at n thoroughly modern Millie on the Broadway

And Dixie

^^ what da fuck?

Was an explanation given for Delta's absence from the recent reading?

Jean Smart is amazing. I'm sure when DW aired nobody predicted she'd be the one with the biggest career and Emmys.

And I still like the Jan Hooks and Julia Duffy season. There were some funny episodes there. You don't have to like every character on a TV show and there should be some tension between characters to make the show interesting.

[quote]The Golden Girls was a much funnier show, with much better actresses.

I always thought Designing Women was much funnier. Golden Girls had talented actresses (except for the Estelle lady) but the scripts were all dumb schtick and the characters were cliches. (Susan Harris had the same cliched characters in all her shows - the dumb one, the sex-starved one, the blunt one who insults everyone - you see them over and over).

The trouble is that DW has dated. So much of the humor was very timely, and so it doesn;t date well.

I do wonder why TV networks and streaming services do not return to the magic formula of "Four White (or Otherwise) Chicks Sitting Around Talking." If they get four good comic actresses it works every single time: Designing Women, Golden Girls, Living Single, Sex and the City. They are always guaranteed a gay and lesbian audience.

[quote]The excuses for Delta not having any lines in certain episodes of season 4 or 5 were something...in the episode about Bernice's sanity hearing she had a terrible sunburn or something

No lines? Her entrance and routine starts at 14:57

I can't find a non-walled link, but in Season 3 in the "The Last Humorously-Dressed Bellboy in America" when the ladies find Suzanne's accountant Reggie Mac Dawson playing piano at some hotel and she goes up and sits next to him, at which point he breaks out into "Delta Dawn" with Burke giving the audience a fourth wall breaking look for just a split second before continuing the scene.

She then grabs the mike and says "EXCUSE ME! Mr. Flatbow? Mister Flatbow? Reggie Mac is going to be taking his break now. Thank Yew!"

R96, Jean Smart said Delta was unable to participate in the recent reading because she is busy taking care of her elderly mother. She was definitely missed; I like Wendi McLendon-Covey, but she is no Suzanne Sugarbaker.

It bugs me a bit that no one associated with Designing Women seems to mention Jan Hooks when speaking of all the cast members they’ve lost. It’s as if they collectively pretend the last two seasons don’t exist.

r54 Alice Ghostley was in the movie of To Kill a Mockingbird.

You forgot the one that started it all, R98. The Facts of Life.

Jean Smart was likable and funny on Designing Women but she never got to shine like Dixie or Delta. She has had an amazing career post-DW. I would never have thought but she truly deserves it. I thought Potts would have the biggest boost post-DW but Smart definitely reaped the biggest benefits leaving the show.

yeah, r99, her entrance is at 15 minutes into a 25 minute show...

They were all self-important cunts. Who did they think they were? "The Golden Girls"?!

They were also ungrateful.

I hold the ONLY Emmy this subpar shit show ever won.

Paul Lynde and Alice Ghostley were great friends who went way back to their NYC theater days.

It is often said that AG was the "female" PL, or other way round depending upon who you asked. But regardless the two were magic when working together.

That being said those who know both PL and AG from way back mostly agree that it was the former who "stole" much from the latter.

Alice Ghostley had been working in theater for about a decade before doing New Faces of 1952 where Paul Lynde got one of his first big breaks. As often the case one actor (PL) studied, copied, learned or whatever you want to call it by watching another.

AG and PL were part of a close knit circle of gay/lesbian NYC actors back then which included Kay Ballard, who over years in interviews has confirmed much of this, and the lady stood by her statements until death.

This scene is one of my faves.

New Faces of 1952

[quote]yeah, [R99], her entrance is at 15 minutes into a 25 minute show...

Well R105, considering the episode revolved around Alice Ghostly's character and not Suzanne, why should she be there from minute one?

Delta is wonderful in so many scenes.

Heading to Japan to pick up her car.

Burke became so ashamed of her weight gain that she had psychological problems. I heard Annie Potts say that the odd thing was the more weight she gained and the less happy she got the funnier Suzanne got.

Miss Valdosta Feed & Grain

love that episode r115. Thanks.

A mediocre sitcom I watched, hating myself. They tried too hard to make Delta and Dixie into camp gay icons.

[quote]A mediocre sitcom I watched, hating myself.

We hate you too.

I never felt a desire to see this show. The performers are good, but something about the material seemed flimsy. It’s just not my cup of tea.

Delta Burke is the rare beautiful woman who looks her best at a higher weight rather than a lower one. Her body is curvy, her facial features are bold. The rare times she was underweight in her youth, she became ordinary.

She has one of those bodies that is not naturally meant to just run up and down in vertical lines....

The simps trying to excuse the cast's right-wingery are pathetic.

This isn't rocket science, and answers to OP's queries have been discussed ad nauseam both at the time and since.

Delta Burke was forced out, fired, whatever for several reasons but her weight gain was only part of things. Egged on by her husband (who took an increasingly active role in Delta Burke's career), DB began agitating for more money and other perks as the "star" of Designing Women. Long story short DB got into a pissing match with Thomasons, Harry and Linda (executive producers ) which was causing all sorts of problems both on set, in media, and elsewhere.

Stress of that battle was taking a toll on DB's mental health to point she would spend hours holed up in her dressing room stopping production. Someone would have to go in there and talk DB down and get her to come out, IIRC it was Dixie Carter who often got that task.

In the end it was decided enough was enough, and DB got the boot.

Jean Smart left DW for same reasons pretty much Elizabeth Montgomery wanted out of Bewitched, Jim Parsons wanted out of The Big Bang Theory and many other actors who quit sitcoms/shows that were still at their ratings peak; this despite money being thrown at their feet.

Ms. Smart felt she had done all she could do as "Charlene" and wanted to move on as a actress. Yeah she could have remained and played that role until show ended just to collect a steady paycheck (lord knows plenty of other actors past and present do same), but not all actors feel that way.

Nature of actors who are deeply involved with their craft is a wish to grow, do other things, work with other people, expand their reach, etc... You see this often with British actors; they have long been classically trained and move from stage, screen, television as roles or moods suit. Dan Stevens caught hell for leaving Downton Abbey, but he basically gave same reasons; wanting to do more and not end his days on that show.

Furthermore once Charlene Frazier Stillfield was married and certainly became a mother that really was all she wrote for her character Whenever any member of a previous single person ensemble cast marries and has children, it isn't long before they're gone or show just ends.

Once Charlene got married that removed on reason for her to be around the "girls" all the time. Certainly once she became a mother that caused other shoe to drop. Charlene was always either bringing her baby (along with nanny) to work, or having to pop in and out because she had to get home to "Bill and Olivia".

DW already had one mother (Mary Jo) who was either always talking about her children. That or absent, late for work and or some other drama involving those kids; was DW going to send Charlene down that same route?

I wonder if the tense set played any role in her decision to leave.

Apparently filming often dragged on into the morning.

Jean and Mary McDonnell in “High Society”.

The actor playing the Republican son of Mary McDonnell (Dan O’Donahue) was cute. According to IMDB he only had a small handful of roles in the 90s before fading away.

The problem with High Society, apart from the networks not allowing the drugs and booze of AbFab, was that the got rid of Faith Prince and kept the Young Republican son. I understand getting rid of one or the other since they served the same purpose as foils for the main character, but Faith Prince could actually be a foil for the main characters. The son never had the screen presence to meet the leads toe-to-toe.

I thought Suzanne became less funny as she gained weight.

In the early episodes she really gave the other girls something to play off. Her snobby superiority was fun.

Then, as she gained weight, the character started being re-written as a dumb hick the others felt superior to.

I wonder what it would've been like if they had tried to keep up the other original characterization -- and had Suzanne still convinced she was irresistible to men with the others occasionally popping her bubble (a la Blanche on The Golden Girls).

Suzanne: "I can have any man in my bed!"

Anthony: "Yeah. Colonel Sanders, Ronald McDonald, Count Chocola..."

RE: the link at R122. What kind of nuts renew their marriage vows TWO YEARS after the wedding? I'm not surprised nobody from DW showed up to that shameless gift grab.

Has Julia Duffy talked at length about her interactions with the DW cast?

Miss Potts kept in shape, r84...

[quote]Has Julia Duffy talked at length about her interactions with the DW cast?

No, because she's a classy and reserved professional.

But they were chilly to her.

[quote] [R54] Alice Ghostley was in the movie of To Kill a Mockingbird.

Did you not notice that I put BOOK in capital letters?

The show was just never as funny as The Golden Girls.

But do you think that was caused by the backstage tension? Or simply incidental?

Discuss.

To be fair, r133, the post you responded to said " Linda Bloodworth loved the movie and book To Kill a Mockingbird". They didn't say that Ghostley had a connection to *both*.

Jean Smart is an amazing underrated actor. She was amazing on Legion.

Jean Smart is an amazing underrated actor. She was amazing on Legion.

Okay, let's dial back the pedantry, guys. The person who wrote "Alice Ghostley's part was written specifically for Alice because Linda Bloodworth loved the movie and book To Kill a Mockingbird" worded it poorly but we all know what he meant. No need to go on a multi-day bitchfest trying to prove him wrong or whatever.

I didn't find it worded poorly, r138.

Yawn.

Please take the discussion about Ghostley and that whatever elsewhere.

Sorry if we're boring you, r140...

OMG, a table read?

I know what I'll be doing for the next half hour....

Watch an episode of TGG?

so basically just like suzanne somers, burke's husband fucked it all up?!....

Omg. For years I had remembered Leslie Jordan as Reggie Mac Dawson rather than Danny Thompson and it turns out I wasn't the only one.

I think that we can distill the "unhappiness" down to 3 things - and all roads lead back to Burke. She was drunk with fame (far more than was warranted), she allowed her new husband to cause excessive friction with production and in turn alienate and insult the other actors and she quickly lost her looks with the massive and sudden weight gain - which sabotaged both her character and collaterally the show all together. Delta the diva was the root of both her own demise as a "star" and ultimately the demise of franchise.

Agreed 100%, R146. Yet just a few years later Delta and LBT would work together again on 'Women of the House.'

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason going on hours long drunken profane rants where she would talk about how much she hated The Golden Girls as well as talk shit about Susan Harris.

Great summary of the incident. BTW - I personally watched for Suzanne. I never watched a single episode after she was written off the show.

I watched for Suzanne and Charlene. After season 5, I bailed out.

Julia was obnoxious and Mary Jo was just annoying.

Suz and Char balanced them out.

I particularly loved the episodes featuring Suzanne and Anthony.

Delta Burke was just so damn beautiful

Delta Burke's career never recovered after being fired from DW. She made a couple attempts at a series - both of which bombed - and then she was done.

Unhappiness or whatever is bound to occur when what begins as an ensemble cast soon has one actor/actress eclipsing others.

Writing, Delta Burke's acting... pick one, but for those reasons Suzanne Sugarbaker just made DW; episodes without her character just seemed laden. This likely often was behind Suzanne tagging along on adventures where she probably wouldn't have gone; those "couples" vacations where Suzanne was the only one not paired up with a man are good examples. In particular the "au pair" episode where Suzanne was the only one who knew how to deal with that situation.

Am not saying Delta Burke was or should have been made the "star" of DW; that would have gone against whole ensemble idea. But suits behind DW should have known it always isn't easy to replace or write out a main character. Bewitched switched out (for various reasons) Gladys Kravitz, and Louise Tate, no one cared; but when Dick York left ratings began to take a hit.

As someone posted previously Suzanne provided much of the action other girls bounced off, in particular Charlene and Mary Jo.

R149 Who the hell renews their vows after 2 years of marriage?

Synchronized periods.

Was anyone still getting their period on that set?

Only Meshach, R156.

Little known fact: Alice Ghostley won the Pultzer Prize for her novel, "To Kill a Mockingbird".

If Paul Lynde had still been alive he could've had a recurring guest role as a bitchy queen interior designer who was Julia's arch nemesis. How fun would that have been?

Team Suzanne all the way. I also quit watching after she left . Delta and Meshach played off each other so beautifully they took over any scene they were in . If they had done a spin off where she and he starred , it would have been a hit . I liked Charlene , but I never really cared for Annie .Not in that show .

So during the last season of Designing Women when David Steinberg was directing the episodes, Faye Dunaway visited the set for a week to watch how a sitcom was shot to prepare for her upcoming sitcom that was going to be directed by Steinberg.

Has Dixie Carter, Annie Potts, Jan Hooks or Judith Ivey ever talked about it or told any Faye stories?

It's funny to look back at the episodes and see all the tricks hair, makeup, costume, and lighting people used to compensate for Delta's weight gain. At just 5 ft 5 1/2" she got squat looking very quickly, and her big ol' moon-face makes it worse. We should start a thread cataloguing those, with photos to illustrate!

[quote]If Paul Lynde had still been alive he could've had a recurring guest role as a bitchy queen interior designer who was Julia's arch nemesis.

Better still, Bernice's twin brother, Beauregard Clifton.

Dixie Carter got fired off of "Diff'rent Strokes," she was going to make damn sure anyone that was funnier than her was fired off "her show." That is why Delta and Jean got booted and not Mary Jo.

[quote]If Paul Lynde had still been alive he could've had a recurring guest role as a bitchy queen interior designer who was Julia's arch nemesis. How fun would that have been?

The show never had a gay character except for that one AIDS episode.

Even the rival design firm was all straight men.

I only really cared for Julia Sugarbaker and her season.

The character is the only one that doesn't seem dated.

Delta and Dixie weren't awful actresses, but they were more limited in what kind of roles they could play than Julia Duffy or Jean Smart. They didn't have as much range.

Though it's what she's best known for Jean Smart has really been much better elsewhere than on DW.

Dixie apparently wasn't too popular on the set on D'ffrent Strokes.

I once joked that she probably wanted to hang a Confederate flag outside her dressing room door.

[quote]Was anyone still getting their period on that set?

I just remember Dixie making a BIG deal out of saying that she needed to borrower tampons, because she was having her period.

Then she go on and on about how she really needed to have her IUD removed, but she was just going to pop out and buy a few boxes of tampons and pads, because she was having such a heavy flow...

Then you could Alice (Ghostly) getting more and more pissed, and she would start up about how her OB/GYN was always telling her what a young uterus she had. Then she yell over to Dixie to pick her up a box of tampons too.

As an aside, Jean Smart is hysterical as Lorraine Sheldon in the Broadway revival of ‘The Man Who Came to Dinner’. With Nathan Lane as Sheridan Whiteside, it is definitely worth watching.

R165, there was also a lesbian who Suzanne was convinced was in love with her.

Delta Burke was great in "A Bunny's Tale", a dramatization of Gloria Steinem's undercover investigation of the working conditions Bunnies faced at the Playboy Clubs.

Another thing, people act as if Delta Burke vanished off face of earth after DW; which is nonsense. The woman may not have worked much as many would liked or wished, but Ms. Burke still got roles.

Kirstie Alley also played Gloria Steinem in a tv movie.

I was never quite clear what the issue between Delta Burke and Designing Women was but that article above breaks it down. I didn't realize her husband was such a big factor and yet he was able to get two relatively successful television series while her career never really recovered.

[quote] I only really cared for Julia Sugarbaker and her season. The character is the only one that doesn't seem dated.

So you enjoyed all seven seasons then? We’re glad.

[quote]R175 Kirstie Alley also played Gloria Steinem in a tv movie.

It’s the same movie.

Julia went through menopause in a season seven episode. That's the one where Sheryl Lee Ralph's character tells Julia to stand up and say "blah blah blah" to make herself feel better. Then they all stand up and do it.

Man, season seven was garbage.

R176

Gerald McRaney is a man, which sadly means often when it comes to acting/Hollywood or whatever things are different.

Delta Burke besides whatever she was going through mentally and physically at the time also was getting older. Forty may not be fatal for every actress, but by sometime in their 30's roles may start to vanish, or at least good one's harder to come by.

With her weight gain, and being happy to remain her more natural size, Delta Burke was no longer "beauty queen" material. Don't get me wrong, DB was still a damn fine looking woman, but those who make casting choices don't always see "full figured" gals in a forgiving light.

Bill's thirty-two, r180. He looks thirty-two. He looked it five years ago, he'll look it twenty years from now. I hate men.

Was McRaney a terror behind the scenes on Major Dad? Or did he just egg on Delta?

It wasn't just Delta who had an issue with the show. Annie Potts was also unhappy with the direction the show and her character took after Delta and Jean left, and has also talked about the tense atmosphere of the show during this period. She said that Dixie and her would pretty much hide out in each others dressing rooms as much as possible when they didn't have to be on the set.

The Thomason's heads got big when Bill Clinton got the Presidential nomination. There were rumors at the time that they were going to move to Washington and Linda was going to help work with Bill and Hillary and just be producers in name only on their shows.

It seems both parties got too big for their britches. But they put all that behind them and made up eventually.

Imagine Julia trying to introduce her relative, Booger Sugarbaker, to people.

You're right, r180, Gerald could sail smoothly into character actor status without worrying about his rapidly receding hairline or weight gain. Much different for Delta and her being typed as a beauty queen. Add to that her limitations as an actress. Kathleen Turner's change in physicality (and health issues) didn't hold her back from getting to do Martha on Broadway. I'm picturing Delta performing that role as Suzanne.

Now imagine Jean Smart in the role.

Sorry, R177, I meant Julia DUFFY.

Big typo, my bad.

It wasn't the weight gain.

It was that Delta Burke wasn't that good of an actress to compensate for the weight gain.

I didn't like Jan Hooks in this. Her whole performance was too self-aware. It ran tired in her first episode really when she told Allison she thought her Daddy bought Sugarbaker's for her.

Betty White managed to keep Rose from becoming annoying for seven seasons.

They always blame the husband. Shirley blamed her husband for the Laverne feud, Kate blamed her husband for Jayne Curtain's feud and they all blamed Roseanne's husband.

[quote]They always blame the husband. Shirley blamed her husband for the Laverne feud, Kate blamed her husband for Jayne Curtain's feud and they all blamed Roseanne's husband.

Don't talk to me about husbands I wake up one morning and there's a knock at the door and it's a driver saying "Miss Day, I'm ready to take you to the studio to film your new sitcom."

I think it was because Delta became the breakout character. She had all the funniest lines and people liked that snippy attitude. You could appreciate Dixie's character because she was someone you would want on your side in a fight. Poor Annie Potts had absolutely nothing going for her. Her poodle perm and wallpaper paste personality didn't win her any fans and her storylines consisted of being angry at what her kids were doing. I think originally the Charlene character was conceived differently, possibly more of an airhead, but Jean Smart was able to bring a better characterization. But nobody could touch Delta's popularity on that show.

r187 - Duffy was hamstringed by the writing which made her character bitchy and unlikable. The only thing they gave Ivey to do was be a rich, good o' gal who was generous. They both deserved better.

See 18:15. Duffy was perfectly capable of making an annoying character lovable...

In all fairness to Julia Duffy, they just lifted her right off Newhart and dropped her into Designing Women. The rich bitchy girl worked in the environment of Newhart because she was a fish out of water (same template as Diane on Cheers). But when she was dropped into the world of rich interior design, the dynamic didn't work. They should have taken the time to create a new character for Julia Duffy. But the writers had their template down and were too lazy to change it.

R193, you may be right about the reason Julia Duffy was so unlikable on DW, but I had the same reaction to her on Newhart. It seemed like they were trying to create a hilarious character that people loved to hate, but any time she appeared on screen, I just turned it off.

I mean no disrespect to Ms. Duffy herself, who is probably a totally cool and wonderful person and actor. I just couldn't stand to watch her characters for even a few seconds on those two shows. A little like the reaction I have when a Trump video comes up for me. I turn it off immediately.

That's what made Allison great: that she was bitchy.

She was much more like early Suzanne than later Suzanne was.

But Stephanie was *totally* vapid at the beginning of Newhart. As the series went on, she was given an arc to make her less shallow. That gave Duffy something to work with.

Suzanne's bitchery was funny, Allison's wasn't. All they gave Allison was bitchery.

Allison was amusing in small doses. I could see her working in the show if she'd been more like Bernice and just used sparingly.

Not every character has to be likeable.

I’m not surprised DW fans don’t get that though.

Yes, r201, they do when they're one of the four leads. Characters that are 100% unlikable only serve as antagonists of the piece.

The Bloodworth Thomasons were so full of themselves especially after Bill Clinton got elected. They exploited their connections to Billary.

Every main character must be likeable?

I found Allison to be the only likeable main character.

The rest of the cast were bullies to her in her first episode.

No, r204, but they really shouldn't be 100% unlikable. I felt they made Alison so strident that when they tried to garner sympathy for her, it fell flat.

She was actually the LEAST strident character.

Far, far less so than Julia.

Strident probably was the wrong word, r206. I'll change it to bitchily surly.

I've said this before, maybe even here, so forgive the rerun: Delta left right around the time the show finally seemed to be willing to pull the trigger on Suzanthony. It seemed like LBT was willing to try again with Anthony and Allison (they shared a house, for heaven's sake!), but it never came through. Also, I never bought Mary Jo and Carlene being close friends the way Mary Jo and Charlene were. To me, they always came across like an upperclassman sorority sister and her little.

[quote]What was the source of the unhappiness on "Designing Women"

Delta kept eating all the potato chips

R188

No, it wasn't just Ms. Burke's weight gain, but as noted previously her battle with show's suits/creators over money/being given "star" billing and so forth that pushed things over edge. IIRC there was a famous (or infamous) interview that really set things off...

Some of Suzanne Sugarbaker's best came after she gained weight, which gives lie to your theory about Delta Burke's acting skills.

Each other.

Bernice should have tagged along to Washington DC with Suzanne in 'Women of the House.'

I liked Delta's sitcom where she's trying to be a country music singer in Nashville. I guess I was the only one because it got cancelled after one season.

Delta should have won the Emmy for They Shoot Fat Women, Don't They? She was brilliant in that episode.

Even Candice Bergen knew it...

A character can be as likable or unlikable as the creators and writers want to make her or him, but if the character is so off-putting it makes people turn the channel or stop tuning in altogether, they may want to rethink that decision.

BJ was always saying dumb shit like, "Well, now, Jooooolia, see, back in Texaaaasss, we had a sayin: never let a dog lie down on your rear end when he should be payin' the rent and bakin' the biscuits."

"Now let's all of us get on my private plane and fly on over to Hawaii and stop off in New York and Paris on the way. And hey, let's stop in Moscow too."

Delta comes off like an unhinged drama queen in this 1990 Barbara Walters interview. She claims that there was pressure from CBS to stay thin when she gained some weight after the first season, but then it didn't derail the show nobody seemed to care? But then she accuses the Thomasons of being abusive, throwing things and forcing actors to work 15+ hour days, barricading doors to prevent people from leaving. She didn't even tell the producers she was doing the interview because she was "scared." (Start at around 20:30)

I hated BJ Poteet of Poteet Industries. I could handle the Julia Duffy season because I think the writing improved (slightly) as that season progressed, but once BJ shows up, it's all downhill and fast.

Delta let her fame go to her head. It's like she thought she was Elizabeth Taylor. These tv stars never understand that they're tv stars and when they're no longer on their hit show their fame recedes pretty quickly. So many examples.

Just STFU and enjoy what you have from your hit tv show.

"Style and Substance," 1998 - Jean Smart is brilliant a a sitcom version of Martha Stewart

Yeah, that Barbara Walters interview was telling. I mean, none of the cast members were sticking up for Delta if I recall correctly (and obviously wanted to continue working and not mess up the successful show they had worked hard on) and Gerald really seemed to put it in her head that she was above everybody else. I'm sure the Thomasons' were also on an ego trip but Delta just seemed impossible to work with.

As has been said, the Thomasons got very grand when Clinton became president. They worked the hell out of their connection to him and thought they were very, very important.

DW was a frau show, which is why the fans of it dislike the only funny character — Allison.

DELTA burke's fat was drippin grease so bad the other bitches had to puke off camera tween takes..

From my previous understanding I thought it was mostly the BTs who were responsible.

Now it increasingly seems like Delta and hubby...

I do believe that locked in a room story though and know other cast members had some issues with them.

gerald is known doosh

If you rewatch the first episode of season six it’s amazing how nasty they all are to Allison.

Jackée Harry has made it well known on Twitter that she and Dixie didn't get along.

Dixie didn’t like ‘collerds’.

arsenio tired of delta stickin her tongue down his throat..

I can understand Miss Carter's dislike for Jackee.

Miss Carter and I are established, highly respected actresses and these young things come on thinking they're hot shit.

Well, they ain't.

Julia Duffy and Jan Hooks were funny on the first episode of Season 6 , but the writing got progressively worse. There was one other fun episode where they all spend the night at Carlene’s apartment in the shitty part of town, but that was about it.

Hated Dwayne Dobber or whatever Carlene's ex-husband's name was.

"Pull my finger."

[quote]Julia Duffy and Jan Hooks were funny on the first episode of Season 6 , but the writing got progressively worse. There was one other fun episode where they all spend the night at Carlene’s apartment in the shitty part of town, but that was about it.

Season 6 was the highest-rated of the series, but to me it was only marginally better than the wretched final season.

The Season 6 cast - plus Jean Smart - presented at the 1991 Emmy Awards. Delta Burke was in the audience as a nominee for Best Actress in a Comedy for her performance in Season 5 of DW. Awkward.

[quote] Hated Dwayne Dobber or whatever Carlene's ex-husband's name was.

Alison/r234 - Dwayne Dobber was not only the number one car salesman of southeast Missouri, he also created and wrote the critically acclaimed series “Rectify”.

I must be the only one that has no time for Julia’s rants. She could be so shrill that even Martians 👽 would wince at the sound of her voice.

I hated them too.

Allison seemed to be the only character who was skeptical of them.

A lot of them seem pretty right-wing now.

^I got to the point where I dreaded a Julia rant because I knew Dixie would soon be bursting into song.

r227=Vairst Letty

r227=Vairst Letty

r232 - Oh, and you were an absolute fucking doll, Marla....torn box and all.

Had I known there was a Marla Gibbs doll, my parents would have seen that at the top of this little gallons birthday wish list, marked with extra stars, arrows, and hearts.

I wonder why no toy company ever made Designing Women dolls. ("Mary Jo! I can't believe you said that?" " You know what IIIII can't stand?" "And ANOTHER thing. . ." "Ted has the kids. . ." Hours of repetitive fun!)

What was the source of the unhappiness? Four women working together. Have you ever been around an HR department? You would understand completely. Women don't work well together.

R244 Was “little gallons” a nickname of yours as a child? Was it about eating ice cream?

R246, I'm half blind so frustratingly miss typos constantly. It pisses me off BUT little gallons, though a typo, sounds like a little gayling who hasn't lost the baby weight. I'm keeping it!

Don't forget "Su-ZAHNN!" among the Julia doll's catchphrases. Now what would the Bernice doll say?

"Sorry I'm late!"

"I have to give the dog a flea bath."

The Bernice doll would sing the Blackman song, come with a pig-nosed attachment ("Reenact Bernice's bad plastic surgery experience!"), and be dressed in a Christmas tree shirt.

Agreed, R233, the only episode that I remember liking on Season 6 was when the gang spent the night at Carlene’s new apartment in a bad neighborhood.

The creators really dropped the ball with Duffy and Hooks (and later Ivey). They cast talented actresses, and then shortchanged the characters they played. I even saw a bit of of an interview with Harry Thomason where he said they didn’t do right by Julia Duffy.

I remember reading that both Tracey Ullman and Bonnie Hunt claimed to have turned down joining the cast of “Designing Women” — they dodged a bullet.

Apparently, CBS still had a contract with Duffy and told her she would be doing DW once they settled on her.

The Thomasons weren’t too keen on her.

DW would've been a complete waste of Tracey Ullman's talents. Good thing she turned them down.

R249, don't forget "You WON'T believe what I just saw!" I knew about Bonnie Hunt, but Tracey Ullman is a surprise.

[quote]Also, I never bought Mary Jo and Carlene being close friends the way Mary Jo and Charlene were. To me, they always came across like an upperclassman sorority sister and her little.

Mary Jo and Julia could be cruel to Charlene at times as well. They would rub how intelligent they were in Charlene's face and make her feel bad.

The more I think about it, the more I wish the writers would have done a little more with Mary Jo's outsider looking in persona. She wasn't to the plantation born like Julia and Suzanne and from what I can tell, her family situation wasn't as close as Charlene's. They kinda touched upon it in the episodes where she and Charlene argued about being working mothers and later, when they planned to work on a book until Bill came home from the Gulf War. Then again, times were different and DW was a sitcom, not a dramedy.

I think the problem after Delta left was that not only losing her was a big loss plus Jean, having the audience get acquainted with TWO new characters was asking for too much.

I always thought Julia Duffy fit into the show quite neatly.

By the time she had left Suzanne had basically turned into Charlene and there was a missing tire needed to keep the balance right.

The show never worked as well as it did in season six.

Very true, r257. They should have moved heaven and earth to get Jean to stay after Delta was let go. I know she had already planned to leave but they could have offered her a huge payday to stick around for one more year. Then the new characters could be introduced and developed more gradually.

[quote] Jean Smart said Delta was unable to participate in the recent reading because she is busy taking care of her elderly mother.

Thoughts and prayers!

I liked the 30 Rock episode where one of the writers say they stayed up all night to watch a Designing Women marathon.

“At first J hated it, and then I loved it...and then I hated it again...”

The show never worked without Delta Burke. She was most like the Southern women in my family. I knew more Suzanne Sugarbaker types than any other types on that show. I think the second type would be Charlene. Julia wasn't passive-aggressive enough to be a Southern woman and Mary-Jo was too "funky/artsy" to be a Southern woman.

The key to Southern women is that they are constantly concerned about their appearance. Makeup, hair, clothes, it all has to be just right. And second, you have to believe that a Southern woman would sit down at the breakfast table and grab a biscuit as if it was a bar of gold. Southern women like their food.

The show never worked without Julia Duffy.

They needed an Allison character against which to assert their Southerness. They were just too much without her.

I guess Jan Hooks had no say in the development or dialogue of her character, because left to her own devices I think she would have been hilarious.

She also needed bigger Southern hair.

They tried glamming Jan up in the last season, alongside Judith Ivey. It was probably the only bright spot of that year.

I think the casting people got it wrong. Rather than Judith Ivey, they should have brought in Dana Ivey.

Jan Hooks was wasted on that show. She was an incredible talent, it wasn't a good fit for her.

No, Jan Hooks ruined it herself.

Her whole performance was too smug.

She obviously thought the show beneath her.

Julia Duffy at least treated the audience with more repect.

I think they should have gone to the Ivy and called it a day.

Jan Hooks's talent was not suited for DW. She was so much more talented than that shit show.

Hey, a paycheck's a paycheck and a girl's gotta eat.

When the audience cheers after an established character threatens to throw a new character out the front door, the new character is doomed.

Allison was a threat to the show’s lazy self-satisfaction.

That’s why she was hated.

I never understood why they needed four main characters, anyway. The show always felt overcrowded with episodes entering on two (Julia and one of the others) while the other two sat on the sidelines. Plus, you had Anthony and Bernice. They should have just written Suzanne out and allow Charlene abd Charlene to transition the old with the new. Abd they needed to not write Charlene as dumb. She would have played better if more naive. But there's no rule that they needed four female leads abd the two satellite characters of Anthony and Bernice. Three would be fine, with Suzanne living a life off the show somewhere.

Bernice kept appearing more and more often as the show went on. I wouldn't be surprised if she would have eventually became a full cast member.

[quote]I never understood why they needed four main characters, anyway.

Because of the competition breathing down their bra straps.

R275 - Ghostley as Bernice was always the best part of the show for me - but even her character was written as lame and almost unwatchable by the awful season 7. I didn't find Julia Duffy nearly as off-putting as Judith Ivey - in fact she really didn't bother me at all. I'm sure that Judith is good in other roles, but everything about her character on this show was cringeworthy. You could tell that no one involved even cared by season 7 and that the actors and writers were just "getting through" those shoots for a last pay check before putting the series out of its misery.

The series finale is one of the worst of any long-running sitcom.

I've forgotten. What did they say happened to Suzanne? I think she sold her part of the business to the Julia Duffy character, but did they say where she went?

To live with her mother in Japan.

Godzilla vs. Suzanne

If memory serves, Suzanne specifically went to Japan for the newly rich men. Which reminds me ... we met Jack Dent and Dash Goff, but why no J. Benton Stonecipher?

Charlene was at her funniest imitating Julia's take down of "ha-Ray Don" (that's exactly how she said it) and making Dixie laugh at being funnier in mocking it than the woman who originated it.

Now excuse me. I need to skedaddle and hippity hop.

I remember there was an episode where one of the women (Julia?) was dating a man Allison thought was gay. I wasn't a fan of the show by that season, but I thought that episode was great.

Wasn't Julia Duffy married to the guy who played Reverend Trask on Dark Shadows?

Excuse me, R282. It's Dash Goff, the writer!

Right on both counts, R284. Julia's boyfriend was played by Charles Frank, who played Stanley, the nice brother, on Filthy Rich (and then Patricia Heaton's boyfriend on Women of the House). Jerry Lacy played Alison's ex-boss, who wooed her only to leave her at the altar out of revenge for her exposing his inside trading (it was the episode with the Marla Maples appearance).

The archaic girdles they had to wear?

Charles Frank was on "All My Children" as Dr. Jeff Martin, and he ended up marrying Susan Blanchard (who played Nurse Mary Kennicott) both off screen and on screen. And they're still married (off screen; don't know what happened to their characters on the show since I stopped watching around 1975!)

[quote]Hey, a paycheck's a paycheck and a girl's gotta eat.

More like smoke and drink till you die.

Oh, r289, be nice.

The show seems so right-wing these days.

Like its celebration of GWTW.

Dixie Carter missed being on the set of the soap opera "The Doctors" with Julia Duffy by about six weeks. After her brief stint subbing for Nancy Pinkerton as Dorian Cramer (pre-Lord), Dixie appeared for two years as D.A. Brandy Henderson on "The Edge of Night". A year after that ended, she appeared in a handful of episodes of "The Doctors" as socialite Linda Elliott, a friend of Doreen and Jason Aldrich's who lived in Paris. Julia Duffy had played Althea's daughter Penny for four years and had just left the show. Linda's character met Nola Dancy (Kathryn Harrold) who was involved with Jason, then separated from Doreen. Later on, Dixie worked with Nola #3, Kim Zimmer, in the "DW" episode "The Rowdy Girls".

Suzanne always seemed to have the best lines. I still use the phrases “big ole country girl” and “rolling in the floor churches”

Marji Martin who played Donna Jo Karnes in the episode where Suzanne thought she had lost her Miss Georgia World title played the nanny who replaced Fran after she married Maxwell. She was very funny as she tried to flirt with him.

r292's post encapsulates why I never watched soap operas.

[quote]You could tell that no one involved even cared by season 7 and that the actors and writers were just "getting through" those shoots for a last pay check before putting the series out of its misery.

By the end the characters were just cardboard cutouts of who they were originally. Bernice became belligerent and unpleasant, and Julia was reduced to regurgitating "Have we COMPLETELY lost our MINDS?" and "I don't THINK so!"

[quote]The series finale is one of the worst of any long-running sitcom.

To me the episode that showed how far the show had truly fallen was the one where Mary Jo was charging people to see the face of Elvis in the shovel in her garage.

r292 is kind of scary.

Judith Ivey was no fun on sitcoms--she was also awful on One Day at a Time.

It didn't help that she was ugly.

You're post is what is ugly, r298.

R298 When was she on One Day at a Time?

r300 Never.

Oh, God, can you imagine if BONNIE FRANKLIN was one of the replacement actresses?

What about a Linda/Dixie death match, r302?

Elaine Stritch could have been a fun Suzanne replacement. She was no stranger to sitcoms.

Her "Cousin Allison" could have been a formerly-wealthy New York WASP with a conservative streak who'd lost most of her money in an acrimonious divorce, and brought Suzanne's shares in Sugarbaker's so she could leave NY and never have to run into her former high society friends while working the checkout line at a Gristedes.

And even though she'd have hardly any money left, she'd still behave like the grande dame she used to be.

Best of all, she'd have been able to go toe-to-toe with the Terminator with ease.

Coushin Allishon!? That shoulda been me!

And in my fantasy Season 6, Jean Smart would have stayed on.

Liza would have ran Shugarbakersh Deshign Houshe with an iron fist.

R304 That's an interesting thought. Elaine and Dixie were very good friends.

Liza?

Allison would’ve blown the company’s funds on blow.

Liza as Allison would have added to the line, "Julia, that's the gayest man I've ever met in my life! I should know! I used to be married to him!"

[quote]Oh, God, can you imagine if BONNIE FRANKLIN was one of the replacement actresses?

It's even more criminal Linda Lavin wasn't even considered for the role of Julia Sugarbaker. She was already the darling of CBS sitcoms. She could have extended her run for another 10 years!

This show would have been canceled today after the Twitter outrage. Two stars named Dixie and Delta?

The show really doesn’t hold up now. It’s not just that it’s dated. I now find all the characters — Julia especially — unlikeable.

Anthony is minstrel eunuch. Suzanne and Charlene annoyingly dumb. Annie Potts just seems bored or the character is changing from episode to episode depending on what point the producers want to make. Alice Ghostley’s quavering voice and randomly stupid lines are awful. Jan Hooks plays the whole think so OTT and wink-at-camera style. BJ is just a sounding board for Julia.

Julia Duffy and Allison are the only ones I can stand.

Suzanne was funnier when she was zaftig. Like a big ol' drag queen.

R313, spot on about Anthony. He was cringeworthy to watch.

Oh, I loved Anthony with Suzanne. They played off each other so well.

I preferred them in the earlier seasons: when Suzanne was more subtly racist and snobby.

That dynamic worked. She could force Anthony to do things and he'd get the better of her. Funny.

Then it changed and it seemed like Anthony pitied Suzanne (like the rest of the cast did). Not so funny.

Apparently Julia Duffy's son died by suicide last year. So terrible.

Delta was the best thing in that awful production of Steel Magnolias. Christine Ebersole was the low point.

The Golden Girls remained serious till the end.

DW started to become a parody of itself by the third season.

Allison feels more like a character from Seinfeld or Frasier.

Which is why she doesn't feel so a broad cartoon like the other characters.

There was something quite malicious about there literally taking a chainsaw, was it?, to Allison's desk later in the episode.

[quote] Allison feels more like a character from Seinfeld or Frasier.

I think Seinfeld had a huge influence in the way other sitcoms were written, including existing shows like DW. In the first five seasons you had a nice blend of comedy mixed in with dramatic moments, like Charlene’s friend being physically abused by her husband. While many people who go back and watch those episodes nice may find those moments maudlin and dated, they are what made the show memorable and powerful. And Jean Smart doesn’t get enough credit at playing that blend if comedy/drama so beautifully!

By seasons 6 and particularly 7, the writers tended to try to go for pure laughs, and the shows didn’t have any of those dramatic moments that made Seasons 1-5 so great. That may have been fine if the writing had actually been funny.

That's partly true.

But there's really another problem with most of the issue episodes of DW: they usually feature a big Julia rant.

Which... I don't care for.

I remember “TV Guide” jeered “Designing Women” in its “Cheers and Jeers” section for the overdoing of Julia’s tirades. They described Julia as the most obnoxious character on TV (!) and had a wonderfully appropriate accompanying photo of Dixie Carter in character literally looking down her nose at something.

Fuck TV Guide!!! Those songs WEREN'T going to sing THEMSELVES!!

It's interesting how quickly the show became self-aware of Julia's rants.

The AIDS episode was only the fourth of the second season.

Yet Mary Jo is already referring to them as if she's watching at home.

Untreated UTI?

It seemed like they made Anthony flamboyant to cut through his being a black male con.

Then when he became too flamboyant they gave him a girlfriend.

Gurl that flamboyance was all Meschach!

Wasn't it heavily implied that Anthony and T. Tommy Ray had been lovers in prison?

They was just dance partnas, R331. No penetration was had!

If DW were on the air now they'd just make Anthony gay. They couldn't really do that back then.

So I recently rewatched the episode where the snobby Beaumont Driving Club asks Anthony to join, much to Suzanne's chagrin. Julia's speech to him that they only wanted him because he was black was really cringeworthy. And then he was like "no shit, bitch. Of course I knew that". Julia's whole white savior liberal mentality seems really condescending and dated now. Like Anthony was too stupid and naive to get what the snobs were up to.

Then there was the episode when she debates that black politician.

I wasn’t sure what point that episode was trying to make.

It seems we’re supposed to identify with Julia, then she loses big time?

Maybe it’s Dixie — she always played her like a Republican — but the intensity with which she goes after a black man who disagrees with her is... a lot.

I wonder why they cast a black man in that role anyway.

It definitely adds a different dimension.

Anthony wasn't just any random "black man", but an ex-con (due to an unfortunate situation.....).

Casting a black man who was an ex-felon ticked a number of boxes.

First and foremost in the south when places want a man to fetch and carry, it's usually a POC who gets the job.

Two IIRC hiring Anthony was part of Julia Sugarbaker's progressive politics. Recall Suzanne didn't think it was a good idea hiring an ex-con; she had no problems with him being black.

Finally the comedy and friendship that developed between Suzanne and Anthony was not only priceless, but wouldn't have worked if a white man had been cast. Suzanne alternates from treating Anthony like he doesn't count, to one of her closest "girl friends" or just outright best friend.

All the hilarious situations Anthony and Suzanne find themselves in work largely because he's black and Suzanne is, well Suzanne. You know nothing sexual or romantic is ever going to happen between them because that is just one line Suzanne won't cross. As Julia Sugarbaker makes clear on a few occasions her sister Suzanne still believes in the "Old South", which even in 1950's until good part of 1970's in many ways wasn't vastly different from pre-WWII south. Suzanne says some things to Anthony and or her treatment of him is just how she sees the world.

Only way Anthony would have worked being cast with a white actor is if the character was out gay.

Take the New Orleans convention episode where Suzanne and Anthony end up getting stranded and have to share a hotel room. That just wouldn't have worked with a white straight guy. More so when Suzanne and Anthony show up at the hotel in New Orleans giggling like two school girls.

Someone up thread called Anthony a eunuch; and in some ways he was; but that is how generations of black men and boys were taught to behave around white women and girls. They had to be non threatening nor aggressive; one false move (or bad word from a white woman/girl), and they'd be swinging from nearest tree.

That last bit was one of the main reasons why railroads (in particular the Pullman company) hired black men from the south to be cooks, porters, Red Caps,etc.. Black men from the south "knew their place" and how to behave around white women

Dixie’s own politics were liberatarian IIRC.

Yeah, right.

Both of the Daddy Jones episodes were hilarious.

There’s just a very different dynamic between having a black man as a straight criminal and a black man as a wrongly convicted flamboyant gay man (but who never actually has sex).

By season four doing a fat episode had lost its potential edge.

By that point all the other characters already treated Suzanne as if she was fat.

In real life, Anthony would have fucked either Julia or Suzanne.

[quote]R274 I never understood why they needed four main characters, anyway. The show always felt overcrowded with episodes entering on two (Julia and one of the others) while the other two sat on the sidelines.

We really didn’t need to keep on with the rule of three ANGELS, either.

Jaclyn and I could have handled Season 2+ on our own. Maybe with special appearances by Bootsie Gumdrops.

delta's fat ass farts were horrible ! so were her redneck hubbies....they ate alot of mac/cheese and smegma.

I always hated the way Julia spoke to Anthony. So condescending. Like he was so below her. She did that with a lot of characters.

I loved Julia growing up when I watched the show but I think of all the characters, hers probably aged the worst. Although I still do love the episode when Suzanne dons blackface (!) when the women were lip-synching to the Supremes, and Julia is shocked. That episode would never fly today.

Also, reading this thread made me realize how poorly Mary Jo was written as a character. I have a hard time recalling any standout moments with her. I like Annie Potts but I remember her better from Ghostbusters and Pretty in Pink than her whole time during DW.

The show is very dated now.

The "They Shoot Fat People?" episode was schmaltz city; the Thomasons had no talent for drawing parallels between the characters' lives and broader world events. The opening scene with Anthony and Julia crying at each other while fasting to end world hunger is so painful, and then the African boy--who doesn't look Ethiopian or Somali at all--shows up and there are more tears. (I assume Jean Smart bowed out of this episode for a reason.) I think the Golden Girls has aged better because even at its worst GG was never as hectoring or treacly as DW.

I think Golden Girls aged better because Susan Harris didn't limit herself to one character type. Designing Women was completely about Southern people and they had to stay in that environment.

I also think GG took more chances. To have a sexually promiscuous character in the age of AIDS was a huge risk. And I think it was only down to Rue's performance that the character was likeable and successful.

GG also had a more talented ensemble cast and their chemistry together was insanely good. Bea Arthur in particular was an incredibly gifted comedic actress, few could match her.

They also didn't do much topical humor which always dates a show.

Dixie Carter's pussy stank. That was the source of the unhappiness.

GG aged better too because each character was so well written and there was balance between the characters. Too much smug Julia was a turnoff. Dorothy could be acerbic and sarcastic but she was still likable and I think more people would relate to Dorothy than Julia. Rose was simple-minded and yet Betty White played her with wit and integrity and every so often Rose would bite back ("What a backstabbing bitch"). Mary Jo - I can't even remember a raucous, funny episode with her.

I remember showing an episode of DW to friends (who love GG) and they didn't laugh once.

Yes, R352, Dorothy > Julia. Dorothy had a lot of vulnerability to balance out her sarcasm.

DD was too preachy. And Julia's soapbox rants got annoying. And not to mention all the times Dixie Carter insisted on having scenes to show off her singing skills. The stupid vanity piece songs dragged down the entire episode. If a character is going to sing, the performance should at least advance the plot (like Dorothy and Blanche's performances at the Rusty Anchor).

[quote] and then the African boy--who doesn't look Ethiopian or Somali at all--shows up and there are more tears.

I fired my agent after I saw that episode.

Yeah, and when they had singing in a GG episode, it was organic. They were doing a local production or a fundraiser. And the actresses weren't afraid to look silly. Like when Dorothy was dressed up as the sheriff (or chief - sorry can't recall the title). It was hilarious.

Whereas on DW, it's like they took it so seriously, as if Julia was a cabaret act waiting to happen.

The Rusty Anchor episode on GG was one of the best. And Rose and Blanche tap dancing. True, the song and dance numbers on GG happened organically, and they were always funny.

On DW Julia's musical numbers were obviously "Dixie Carter has it in her contract to show off her singing. If she doesn't get her way all hell will break loose behind the scenes."

It was a Diana Ross solo piece, R346. I would thank one to remember such things.

Bea Arthur did "Hard Hearted Hannah" on Maude and she was fabulous!

The cast of Golden Girls was 100+ times hotter.

Sex sells.

r358 She did the same damn song on Golden Girls.

Really, R360?!!!

I never repeated songs, because I pulled songs from

"The Dixie Carter Setlist - All The Songs You Want Me to Sing on Designing Women"

Suzanne: Let me get this straight. He's never had a girlfriend, he knits sweaters and he works at the beauty shop?

Charlene: Well, he goes to Three Rivers Junior College, too. What are you gettin' at?

Suzanne: Well, I don't mean to get personal Charlene, but has it ever occurred to you that maybe Odell is involved in some homosexual activity?

Charlene: Suzanne! I mean, just because a person is sensitive and artistic doesn't mean he's gay. Not that that would matter to me anyway.

Julia: Well I think he sounds like an interesting and talented young man.

Suzanne: I think he sounds like a woman.

Suzanne: Well, I don't care what anyone says about the New South, it's just like that time we went to Memphis. I mean, anytime you put one black man and three well-heeled white women together, it's just gonna look strange and that's all there is to it.

Suzanne: Big, black beautiful buck. Hmph. I'm just gonna call the NAACP and turn her name in. I mean, that's a racial slur if I ever heard one.

Mary Jo: And you oughta know.

None of those quotes were funny.

True, fatty's farts made the cast reach for puke buckets, gerald's were rank too, .... diapers on both.

The episode with McRaney as the sexy writer was also cringeworthy. When he read passages from his writing, I thought that he made Pat Conroy sound like Hemingway in comparison. All of that florid, overwrought prose. So fucking corny.

I found his prose so... limited

Dorothy's New Friend is really so much better than any of the similar Designing Women episodes.

Can you imagine if Linda B-T wanted to make a point about Murray Guttman and the Mortimer Club?

There would be a schmaltzy speech from Charlene about being called dumb, no jokes about Arnold Schwartznegger's thighs, and an OTT tirade by Dixie Carter.

Was there ever a slam on "Golden Girls" on an episode of "Designing Women"? Sophia on "GG" cracked about the bad accents once, and another time commented on two seasons of "DW". I know Linda Bloodworth Thompson made some anti-"Golden Girls" cracks during the run. Meshach Taylor is on the premiere episode of "Golden Girls" as the cop that tells Blanche that her fiancée has been arrested, and Alice Ghostley was Stan's mother in the Mother's Day episode. I wonder if she was forbade or threatened if she did any more. Meg Wyllie was on two "Designing Women's" (2 different characters) and four "Golden Girls" (as 4 different people), and Anne Haney (Bill's wife on "DW") was Dorothy's hospital roommate on "Golden Girls".

The late 80's and early 90's sitcoms were dominated by women writers, but I don't recall Diane English ever slamming either show either on or off the air, although "Murphy Brown" and "Designing Women" dominated Monday nights for several years. When "Designing Women" was good, it was really good, but when it was bad, it made the Rita Moreno episode of "Golden Girls" look a lot better, if that is remotely possible. Video bars back in the 80's and 90's could get packed because most days, there were shows that got gay men to go out rather than sit at home. You could walk down Santa Monica Blvd. from where the Rage was down to the Revolver, and you'd hear either laughing over a Dorothy line, or cheering over an Alexis/Krystle catfight at each bar as you passed by. Monday nights at the Revolver were very crowded by the time they started Karaoke at 10 because people had already shown up to watch Julia and Suzanne right after you saw Murphy fire one of her inept secretaries. In the 1990/91 season, "DW" and "Golden Girls" tied together in 10th place.

Wow, I never knew gay bars used to play sitcoms.

Polyester clothing?

[quote]Wow, I never knew gay bars used to play sitcoms.

Some did. Especially if it was a slow night (like Monday).

{quote]What was the source of the unhappiness on "Designing Women"

Delta Burke's flatulence.

R372

Not long after they became common bars of all sorts had televisions. In fact even before many homes had a set local bar often did; it may have been a small black/white set but never the less..... So it isn't surprising gay bars had them as well.

Game changer of course was large screen projection television. Places like Uncle Charlie's in the Village had a huge screen in the back area that made for great viewing. Dynasty night was always packed, but other popular television shows also had crowds (such as the Oscars, election night coverage, etc...). When not showing television programs they played music videos (with our without sound), or even things like Bugs Bunny cartoons (largely without sound).

Bars are bars world over, you want to get people in and encourage them to remain for long as possible, hopefully buying drink after drink. To do that you've got to offer something that keeps people's attention.

[quote]Anne Haney (Bill's wife on "DW")

What? Charlene was Bill's wife. Haney played Aunt Phoebe.

r377=Alberta Meachum.

Dixie Carter could never give a performance like Bea Arthur did in 'Sick and Tired'.

R379 This sounds like shade, is it shade?

Shadier than Dionne Warwick at a funeral, R380.

Delta left the show to focus on her airline, which she had just founded at the time.

It was tough on Dixie to focus on TV work after founding a breakaway country.

I'm not blaming Harris but picking someone who couldn't deliver a state and is the most liberal Senator, but who Black men hate, was not the best decisions. I still think if he wanted to go with a Black woman, Val Demings or Stacey would've beem better. That said, Biden is a fairly shit candidate and that was always the biggest problem. If it wasn't for Covid, Trump would already be at the victory party.

It's less about two white men and more that we needed an inspiring candidate who isn't researching nursing homes

Damn wrong thread sorry

Are Kamala Harris and Susan Harris related?

I always loved Dixie's line of paper fine diningware.

I always enjoyed the fine cotton from Delta's plantations

Don't forget Jean Smart founded MENSA.

[quote]It's interesting how quickly the show became self-aware of Julia's rants. The AIDS episode was only the fourth of the second season. Yet Mary Jo is already referring to them as if she's watching at home.

You'd think the four characters hadn't even met before the pilot episode.

Annie Potts made chef's lives easier when she invented a cooking vessel named an adrickinashation. Chefs everywhere agreed it was such a landmark device they had to rechristen it in her honor. Thus, we have "pots".

when delta farted, the haz mat suits came out to avoid lung rot from the odor.

everybody farts, dumbass R392. You're not funny.

Fat Delta is Chrissy Metz’s goal weight.

How many times did Dixie actually sing on DW? There was "How Great Thou Art" in season 2, "Sweet Georgia Brown" at Payne's wedding in season 4, and that awful season 5 episode where she was a secret nightclub singer....

When Dixie and Delta farted, did it sound like "I wish I was in the land of cotton?"

The MAME episode was obviously something written to appease Dixie.

Still I thought it was one of the series' best. Though that's a low bar.

Dixie also sang a Christmas song, and then something at Charlene's bachelorette party.

R397 Was Anthony in drag to appease Meshach Taylor?

Interestingly, Gretchen Wyler, the drunken "Vera", had played Mame all over the country in stock for years.

Dixie also lead a gospel number at Reese's funeral.

[quote][R397] Was Anthony in drag to appease Meshach Taylor?

No, but he was down the pecking order behind the scenes.

Dixie demanded stuff like that and got away with it.

What about the episode in which Julia, Mary Jo, and Carlene enter a singing contest?

Am I misremembering or did she sing over the end of an episode after Reese died? It wasn't diegetic.

Julia's caterwauling caused that avalanche.

Did she sing in that episode where they imagine they were in World War II?

Sugarbakers always seemed to be on the verge of bankruptcy. Seems like they could've laid off Mary Jo and Suzanne and made more money. And did they really need Anthony? Couldn't Julia have hung those curtains herself?

[quote]Sugarbakers always seemed to be on the verge of bankruptcy.

Julia shouted away about half of all their clients.

[quote]Seems like they could've laid off Mary Jo and Suzanne and made more money.

Suzanne was supposed to be a backer they were forced to put up. But after a while Delta stopped playing that dynamic (the show's main conflict driver) and it was long until Julia Duffy arrived.

[quote]And did they really need Anthony? Couldn't Julia have hung those curtains herself?

Wasn't he, in the early episodes, someone on a parole employment scheme? It seems like he might've been paid a reduced wage because of that and also that Julia wanted to virtue-signal by hiring him.

The Greater Atlanta Metropolis area is Chrissy Metz's goal weight.

R407 And by the last dreadful season, it was like they just admitted that it was a failing business. BJ was rich and didn't care about losing the money, she just wanted some fun friends to hang out with.

That was really lazy writing. What was entertaining about Allison was that they didn't like her but HAD to put up with her. Conflict! Drama! That's what writing's about.

BJ Poteen (what a stupid name) was just there to write blank cheques and give Julia a topic to rant on.

Season six was the show's most mature and intelligent season.

Season seven was then as dumb as a box of hair. You could tell everyone involved had stopped caring.

How many times did they shoehorn in some bullshit plot contrivance so Dixie Carter could sing and show off her "talents?" Same thing happened on Alice with DL Goddess Linda Lavin.

Don't forget my annual talent show for the elderly.

I hate to exercise, I love to harass showrunners!

So, what exactly did these women design?

Funerals. In that one AIDS episode anyway.

That episode mostly just highlighted that the show had never had a gay character on it before.

It should've been a friend the girls were arranging a funeral for and not in a professional capacity.

[quote] Season six was the show's most mature and intelligent season.

My season of Charlie’s Angels was also the best...do you agree?

Never see Charlie's Angels.

I did like the Clarence vs. Anita episode. Obviously it dates the show but I appreciated them tackling a controversial issue while it was still relatively popular.

Angela Lansbury can kiss my white, Southern ass!

Tee Hee

[quote] I did like the Clarence vs. Anita episode. Obviously it dates the show but I appreciated them tackling a controversial issue while it was still relatively popular.

That episode was off. Mary Jo seemed out of character. And they were both wearing those t-shirts. Was Anthony even allowed speak in that one?

Linda Bloodworth Thomason was still the exec but no longer directly involved by season six, so we were spared those maudlin episodes and rambling monologues she wrote.

"The show was just never as funny as The Golden Girls."

I never thought The Golden Girls was as funny as Designing Women. To each his own, I guess. I just never saw the humor in The Golden Girls. All I saw was that loudmouth Bea Arthur and Estelle Getty as her bitchy mother putting each other and the other characters down constantly. So I was completely turned me off by that show and found Designing Women to be a kinder, less abrasive and more enjoyable alternative, I suppose.

Kinder and funnier are not the same thing.

I don’t know if DW fans actually believe the show was funnier or just prefer it despite that.

And, though the rest if the cast was brilliant (far better than DW), Estelle Getty was limited.

Can any DW fans offer a few examples of the show's funniest moments?

I would offer up the 'chains or the pearls' moment from the Golden Girls.

Bea Arthur's direct camera stare was as annoying as Dixie Carter's rant monologues.

Nowhere close, R427.

This is something I've noticed: any DW thread that last beyond thirty posts becomes a GG thread.

When old cow face Delta farted the entire bldg evacuated as the place blew up !

I never saw the humor in DW. Just a bunch of people pretending to be dumb and wacky.

[quote]I never saw the humor in DW. Just a bunch of people pretending to be dumb and wacky.

Yeah, that never works unless you get a pie in the face or you're wearing a false mustache and silly glasses.

Or get your head stuck in the Abbott Bannister.....

[quote]Just a bunch of people pretending to be dumb and wacky.

That's Laverne & Shirley, not Designing Women.

I found Lucy funny. Most of the humor was that through her own incompetence she got herself into awkward situations.

On DW it just consisted of Suzanne, Charlene, and Bernice sitting around spouting off things about Rula Lenska or whatever.

Cow patty Delta farted so loud and thick that assjuice dripped down her leg and Arsenio had to put a diaper on her...

The Delta Burke Fart Troll who's riddled this thread with dumb shit needs to STFU.

R410, this is why I enjoyed the Allison season. She actually stirred the pot, created conflict, and gave the girls something to respond to.

[quote][R410], this is why I enjoyed the Allison season. She actually stirred the pot, created conflict, and gave the girls something to respond to.

Yes!

Instead of the girls just lounging around and just rambling on, musing in agreement like they always did.

I think season six is really the only season that works and I find it telling that DW fans (especially the ones who HATE GG) don't like it.

It's a pity Jan Hooks never got a series that showcased her talents. She was wasted on DW.

This is what I mean when I think of DW being unfunny:

Compared to this:

Oh delta, ev body loves the fart troll cept u and old Gerald......go eat cake !

The Delta Fart Troll is the worst troll ever. At least try to be funny.

[quote]Estelle Getty was limited.

Shut up, Barbara.

Okay, I think I can name all the Julia singing episodes. "I'll Be Seeing You," "I'll Be Home For Christmas" and "How Great Thou Art" from Season Two. "Come On and Marry Me, Bill" from Season Three. "Bernice's Sanity Hearing" (or was she just playing the piano?) and "Payne Grows Up" from Season Four. "How Long Has This Been Going On?" from Season Five. "Mamed," "All About Odes to Atlanta" and "A Little Night Music" in Season Six. "Of Human Bondage" and "Screaming Passages" from Season Seven.

[quote]What was the source of the unhappiness on "Designing Women" among the cast?

Delta ate all the doughnuts.

Delta Burke was really quite an amateurish actress. She coasted on attitude.

Annie Potts never had anything to work with. Her character was constantly being undermined.

Jan Hooks was really bad. The whole performance was so cutesy and hammy.

Dixie played Julia like a right-winger.

Jean Smart was okay, I suppose. But tiring. Betty White manage to better imbue Rose with a sense of naiveté rather stupidity and was capable showing other sides to her that seemed natural. Jean Smart’s bitch line reading didn’t work.

Delta cut smelly farts.

It was always stupid when all five of them would decamp over to a client's.

Don't keep us in suspense r450. They would decamp to a client's what?

Property, of course. The one they were going to decorate. They were interior designers.

There was no conflict in their relationship.

Julia was the epitome of white privilege.

She always LOOKED like a Rpeublican

I thought Anthony was their slave.

There were very few funny lines I can remember -- unlike GG where I have, like, a hundred stored in my mind.

One of the few was: "He managed to work Ida Lupino into a twenty second conversation"

[quote]I thought Anthony was their slave.

Fun fact: Hillary wrote fondly about using unpaid prison labor in the Arkansas Governor's Mansion.

Delta kept forgetting to wipe her ass after a big nasty shit.....smelled like a porto pottie in july..

Suzanne and black face in The Rowdy Girls.

I wonder how their... black token parole slave, GWTW affection and blackface would go down today.

The show really seems more right wing than GG today.

It's a very dated show.

Julia's character really seems dated and obnoxious, always righteous and telling people off. Like the time they were decorating for the mistress and she had to tell the wife.

Mind your own business bitch and do your job!

Yes, she instinctively aides with the wife. They all do.

And then launches into an attack on the poor woman, Leann Hunley.

She’s like that in so many episodes — all the characters are — so sex negative: the porn stand, the AIDS episode, Monette.

They’re slut shamers.

Julia always had to be right and come out on top. Everyone had to agree with her.

GG usually showed the girls had different POVs, not DW.

Suzanne should’ve been a Karen Walker type.

"And Doug would bend over backwards for me."

*Dorothy rushes to cover Sophia's mouth*

I thought Suzanne pretty much was a Karen Walker type minus the booze and pills (at least we never saw her abuse those).

R468 I think Suzanne was more of a proto-Karen (not the Will and Grace Karen, I mean the QAnon Karens) with her right wing gun fetishism, narcissism, and pet pig.

Okay we can all agree that overall GG was hands down a better show. However I would rank Seasons 3 and 4 of DW over that last season of GG for sure.

Jean Smart was delightful on the show and has had the best post 80s career than any of the sitcom lead actresses of that era.

And Delta May have let out the occasional toot in Dixie’s direction but at least she never took a dump in her trailer!

[quote] Okay we can all agree that overall GG was hands down a better show.

No.

GG is a classic and is still very popular. People who weren't even born when GG was originally on the air are fans of the show.

DW is a relic of its time and hasn't really translated to younger generations. The only fans are people from the original run.

[quote]However I would rank Seasons 3 and 4 of DW over that last season of GG for sure.

No.

Karen Walker wasn't even right-wing until the reboot.

[quote]I thought Suzanne pretty much was a Karen Walker type minus the booze and pills (at least we never saw her abuse those).

In the early days, kinda.

But as Delta gained weight the character started to become Charlene Mk. II.

I agree that the writing always had Julia be right. She was never wrong. And if she was humiliated in any way, they had to correct things to ensure that she was the one who was right or the smartest. That kind of writing makes things repetitive and rote. It happened with The Cosby Show (Cliff and Claire were always right) and Y&R (Victor Newman, still kicking the ass of people half his age when you know that was in the script to appease the actor and the younger one could easily kick his ass).

Julia was obviously the character the writers used as their own personal mouth piece. She barely had a personality except to scream at people for whatever was angering her that week. No wonder Dixie requested a song after every dumb rant she had to spew. She probably wanted to soften Julia up a bit and make her less abrasive with some nuance.

Golden Girls has aged much better, because they kept these kinds of topical rants to a minimum and the ones they did have still feel relevant today. There are a few dated jokes that would go over some people's heads these days, but it was always much more timeless than Designing Women. That said, Designing Women has more than a few episodes that still work just as well today. Delta's big "They Shoot Fat People, Don't They?" episode is still a winner.

“They Shoot Fat People” was the equivalent of the “Chuckles The Clown” episode of MTM. It got lots of publicity but there much better episodes of DW than that. And as someone pointed out up thread the plot device of the African boy was ridiculous.

You have to wonder how they managed to obtain new business. In the early episodes, they were clearly dependent on Suzanne's name/the sisters' social standing (and maybe a little "help out the widow") gentility. Julia no doubt terminated her way out of plenty of potential repeat or new clients. (Except, of course, for Imogene Salenger, may she have spent the last 33 years with beanbag chairs and black velvet paintings.)

I love Golden Girls and Designing Women dearly. Both had their strengths and weak points.

I will say in Designing Women's favor, they did not go for big moments, production wise. They had one big wedding with Charlene, and that was it. Even Reese's funeral episode took place after the funeral. But I liked the fact that for Charlene's wedding, they had Reese, Mary Jo's daughter and Bernice in the audience.

By contrast, Golden Girls had several weddings, funerals, and other assorted occasions, and for a hit show, the lack of a huge budget was noticeable. The sets were recycled numerous times. It never made sense that some of these occasions were held in Miami to begin with, and nobody outside of the immediate four showed up to any of them. Shit, Miles was basically a regular in season seven, and the one episode he should have been in, where Rose has surgery, he's not in! And they couldn't spring for Miles and Uncle Angelo to show up for Dorothy's wedding to Lucas (nevermind her own two kids!)

I was about to saw DW had the better sense of continuity, but I can just hear the "WHAT ABOUT CARLENE?!" protests.

[quote]and for a hit show, the lack of a huge budget was noticeable. The sets were recycled numerous times.

Wasn't that true of most shows back then? The networks didn't start putting a lot of money into set design and different sets until much later.

Delta Burke was fired by CBS for breaching her contract by now showing up to work. Basically, when her husband became her manager they demanded a huge salary increase because they felt Suzanne was the most popular character on the show. CBS offered her a small increase and she said no. She was still under contract at this point and to protest she was often late on set and not know her lines (which pissed the rest of the cast off). She then started missing days and finally CBS gave her an ultimatum, show up to work or you're fired. She didn't show up and they fired her.

Jean Smart was going to leave at the end of the 5th season regardless of what happened to Burke. Smart wanted to move on do movies and theater.

Smart was probably beyond fed up with all the drama and bullshit.

GG had no continuity. One episode, Dorothy is going deaf and gets a hearing aid. One episode, Dorothy has chronic fatigue syndrome (and lectures a doctor ala Julia Sugarbaker in public). Yet neither of these are ever mentioned again.

That makes much more sense r483. Delta really went on a Suzanne Somers-like power trip. I guess that Emmy nomination and marrying GR really went to her head.

2 words: Delta Burke flatulence.

All this blathering about Delta Burke's farts, and no mention of Annie Pott's powerful queefs?

You're all fake fans.

Her queefs sounded like someone letting all the air out of a balloon.

r483 CBS had nothing to do with the production of "Designing Women." I don't think you understand how television works.

REUNION 2020.

Suzanne and Noel.

Suzanne and her exercise routine.

Suzanne really is one of the best sitcom characters ever.

Emmy nomination work.

Sheryl Lee Ralph looks amazing in that picture at r491. She's 63.

Here’s Delta crying out of nowhere on QVC because of some emails that apparently upset her.

Jesus, R497, I wonder what those emails said.

When exactly do you date the shift from Suzanne thinking she was better than the other characters to the other characters thinking they were better than Suzanne.

The show would've worked better with Bea Arthur as Julia, Rue as Suzanne, and Betty as Charlene.

I don't know if they could get away with that today: having the show being about four white women and then the only black character being a convict they were trying to rehabilitate.

R498, "Dear Ms. Burke. We regret to inform you that flatulence-related damages are not covered in your State Farm policy."

I did like the opening credits for season 6, which swapped the instrumental sepia photo montage for Ray Charles performing with the girls hanging 'round the piano. Julia Duffy looked the best in her green dress, probably another reason she was run out of town so quickly!

[quote] Jesus, [R497], I wonder what those emails said.

We're discontinuing our Double-Decker Pizza -- Dominos Promotional Department

What a schocking appearansch that wash on QVSchee! Ha! Mama would have loved it! ACK!

I hope Delta never finds this place. Good gravy!

Gravy? Did someone mention gravy???

Chrissy is Delta’s DUFF. In America, no matter how big you are, there’s always someone bigger.

I can totally see Julia voting for someone like Ben Sasse over someone like Bernie Sanders.

Four white women "rehabilitating" a black convict and basically using him as their errand boy.

JFC imagine what would happen if that were on tv today.

r424: Eat dirt and die, trash.

GG's fat episode (Blanche's Little Girl) actually has some laughs.

And 'Not everything, Jeremy...'

That was a great line.

Who has a two-night high school reunion?

Delta was about the size of Christina Hendricks in the fat episode.

Delta is big in Japan.

Wherever big ass Delta sat it smelled like dogshit....a crewmember was hired to only wipe down chairs she sat in with Lye soap/Lysol.

Her farts were gut wrenching to the other stars, puke buckets were just off screen...tho Gerald often rushed to them as the aroma of them made him smile.

Delta's last sitcom, DAG. She played the FLOTUS.

Hey R516, did Delta fart on this show too?

R518, Delta no longer farts. She had her anus removed last year.

[quote]Who has a two-night high school reunion?

My high school does that. The first night is informal and everyone just goes to a local bar. The second night is the actual reunion night where they have a huge dinner.

[quote]What was the source of the unhappiness on "Designing Women" among the cast?

I always assumed it was the poor quality and limited quantity of items provided on the craft services table.

[quote]I always assumed it was the poor quality and limited quantity of items provided on the craft services table.

TV shows don't have craft services tables. They're like theater, there's a green room with a coffee pot and a box of donuts.

The lesbian episode was weird because Suzanne was so covered up in the sauna after her 'enlightenment'.

But that was because Delta was fat not because Suzanne feared Lesbian Sauna Rape.

Delta's weight gain really threw the whole show off balance.

Can any think of any other examples of that happening?

I really didn't like her speech when she won Most Changed.

No, the Old Suzanne would've made bitchy barbs at the podium like her place on Drag Race depended on it. She'd have had some wit and turned it back on the crowd not made that maudlin speech.

The African boy part of the story is really cringey nowadays.

They were obviously trying to make some point about world hunger AND obesity.

But I don't know what.

Maybe I just don't get it. The episode where Julia runs for office and loses bigly... the porn episode that concludes with her driving into the stand again... I really don't get it.

Did Julia keep driving into the stand everyday until she was imprisoned or until she drove him away?

Julia hated that the newsstand sold porn. She was such an asshole.

God, Julia was such a cunt.

[quote]Can any think of any other examples of that happening?

A character on the Reba McEntire sitcom, I've read???

And Christina Hendricks on Mad Men. The character was supposed to be an office bombshell, but by the end of the show she was more like the office jet-carrier.

[quote]A character on the Reba McEntire sitcom, I've read???

Barbra Jean.

Barbra Jean's character lost weight, she didn't gain. The weight issue on "Reba" was with the anorexic younger daughter, who disappeared from the show for an extended period of time to get help.