The Beatles Were Bi Part 2

Part one

Yoko reminds me of the wives of the closeted, repressed Homo hicks I grew up with. They love good times, dick sucking & butt fucking, fall in love with their buddies until they realize that society won’t allow it. Homophobia kicks into high-gear once the hormones & dopamine start to run dry in their 20s. They find some gruff bossy woman that offers them salvation, in exchange for complete devotion and they attach like a newborn pup. Never to bust another homo nut.

Are They Gay? Lennon and McCartney.

I find it easy to believe that Lennon was fluid to some degree.

I mean, he was desperately emotionally needy and spent half of his life out of hi mind on drugs, he wouldn't have paid any more attention to his own internal boundaries than other people's rules.

Poor Brian Epstein desperately wanted to be part of their Throuple.

The Mclennon series:

Portsmouth, 1963.

Paul felt sick and John looked very concerned about him:

Ewwwwwwww. They were gross.

Even if it’s not true it’s STILL HOT🔥

"you know it's true, it's all because of you" (Now and Then)

"In January 1994, Paul McCartney was given two tape cassettes by Lennon's widow Yoko Ono that included home recordings of songs Lennon never completed or released commercially. The songs on the tape included the eventually completed and released "Free As A Bird" and "Real Love", in addition to two other songs was a tape with the words "for Paul" scrawled hastily in John's handwriting, which included "Grow Old With Me" and "Now And Then".

Q Magazine - 1998 Q: “If John Lennon could come back for a day, how would you spend it with him?” Paul: “In bed.”

“I have had two companions in my life. Paul McCartney and Yoko Ono. That’s not bad” – John Lennon

“Paul and I know each other on a lot of different levels that very few people know about.” -John Lennon

“A song by an old estranged fiancee of mine called Paul” -John speaking of “I Saw Her Standing There" at Elton John concert in NYC

I truly believe if marriage weren't a thing, and homosexuality wasn't judged, most people would feel comfortable enough to experiment and maybe something like 50% of the world would be gay.

I still wouldn't answer honestly about my sexuality if asked, so I doubt the accuracy of the percentages they're getting.

I truly believe that if there were no societal limits on human sexuality, then 50-75% of humans would be bi, and gays would still be a minority.

And speaking of bisexuality, a certain amount of bisexual expression was considered normal for British schoolboys in the mid 20th century when Lennon was young, as girls were more off-limits before the invention of the birth control pill and the "sexual revolution". Think "Brideshead Revisited", where the protagonist first has an intense crush on a college schoolmate, and then transfers his affections to the schoolmate's sister.... that was just the sort of thing young men did at that time and place. A long-time friend of Lennon's wrote a book, and he said that there was a certain amount of jerking off together as boys did in those days, perhaps it went further with other close friends. Lennon was so fucking needy after all.

Heterosexuality: has left the chat Bisexuality: has entered the chat

"Fred Seaman, John’s last assistant, in 1981 stole John’s diaries (from 1975,1979,1980) and entrusted them to Robert Rosen, Fred’s friend. When asked about what was in the diaries in an interview, this is what Robert said:

"What John thought about everybody else, especially Paul, just on and on and on. "What's Paul doing, heard Paul's song on the radio"..."Paul's music is playing in my head", "John thought he had a psychic connection to Paul", "That anytime John heard Paul's music in his head, he thought that meant that Paul was in town".

Let's not, and say we did ........

George Harrison is the one I would have fucked.

When you find a peer (your equal in talent) to write music with, that connection is almost sexual at times. It can easily be pushed past boundaries and for crushes or more to emerge. That’s why band break-ups are often so bitter. Music is more powerful than we know.

So you think Don Henley and Glen Frey ever fucked?

OMG!!! My all-time favorite DL thread is back!!!!!

This was a reader blind that appeared on CDAN - April 2018:

"One closeted half of one of the best bands ever was having an affair, rivaling that of Shakespeare, with his long dead bandmate. The two first met prostituting when they were around 15 as they were incredibly poor. When that backfired, one suggested mugging dudes in back alleys but the more violently perceived one couldn’t do it, so they started an empire.

Despite the fact they were estranged for the late halves of their lives, they often booked rooms in hotels under different names and their public feud was just for show, much like most of their lives. As well as this they ghostwrote some of the most famous songs ever for each other, and called each other regularly. Their relationship in its day, though not public was an open secret, especially to their rock buddies who admired the couple greatly.

The wife of the deceased member of this couple has no idea and would probably scream if she found out. The wife of the other knew about it, supported it and just wanted her husband to be happy even if that meant abandoning the kids.

During their reign, they threw bricks at each-others windows, tried to fight each-others girlfriends, publicly screamed about how much they missed eachother at parties, spiralled into depression, took copious amounts of drugs and alcohol, and were planning to ‘reunite’ and get a old man farm together before one half’s unfortunate death.

The alive one, who is considered a bit lame, still loves his other half immensely and plans to release a tell-all once the banshee dies as he wants to preserve their relationship and finally tell the truth about the ordeal.

Truly a sad story indeed."

John and Paul were not hustlers in Liverpool when they first met. A schoolmate friend of John who knew Paul and knew Paul as a talented musician, introduced them at an outdoor church fair function where the Quarrymen (John's early band) were performing. At least, that's the official story.

Boyfriends....

[quote]A schoolmate friend of John who knew Paul and knew Paul as a talented musician, introduced them at an outdoor church fair function where the Quarrymen (John's early band) were performing.

Here's the scene from the movie "Nowhere Boy"

Receipts:

-In his interviews Paul can’t stop saying that he slept with John many times. When a journalist asked him what he would do with John if he came back for a day, he answered ‘I would spend it in bed with him’. (Paul McCartney answers questions for Q magazine, 1998).

- Paul revealed that John Lennon’s “Jealous Guy” is about him. (Paul McCartney - Playgirl, February 1985)

-Paul admitted that there are things about John Lennon he wouldn’t tell unless both Yoko Ono and Cynthia Lennon were dead. (Hunter Davies, “off-the-record” telephone conversation with Paul, May 3, 1981)

- In the last years, Yoko has admitted that John had bisexual feelings.(article here)

-John was jealous of Paul’s girlfriends.

-Paul was mad jealous of Stuart (Paul McCartney in The Anthology).

-They did many secret holidays just the two of them during the 60s.

-During the Beatles tours John always slept with Paul in one room, while George and Ringo slept in another. (Gary James’ Interview With The Beatles’ Road Manager Bob Bonis)

-Paul used to take photos of John when he was asleep. The next person who will do this will be Yoko Ono, John’s wife. This is very intimate.

-When John and Paul split up, John told him that “he didn’t want to hold his hand anymore”, and Paul left Abbey Road crying. (Luck and Circumstance: A Coming of Age in Hollywood, New York, and Points Beyond - 2011).

-People who worked at Abbey Road called Paul ‘John’s princess’. (Yoko ono in ‘John Lennon - The Life’ by Phlip Norman’)

More here:

60 Minutes Australia: "Paul McCartney sets record straight on relationship with Lennon | Parkinson Interview, 12 Oct 1997.

“Did he love you?”

Paul: “Yeah, I think he did actually. It wasn’t a spiky relationship at all, it was very warm, very close, and very loving.....homosexuality was still largely illegal sure...but then the business came and the lawyers arrived...”

R25, do you have a link to that interview?

"There was a deeper love there that neither of us could admit to" ─Paul McCartney.

"The fact these are also Paul’s favorite pictures with John..."

"Sue Baker was 15 when she decided to track down Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Ringo Starr and George Harrison at their homes. Their chats were so welcoming that she continued popping in every weekend for two years. She first found Paul McCartney’s home in North-West London after reading a vague description of it in a Beatles magazine. After several months, Paul asked if she ever visited any of the other Beatles. When Sue replied no, he reeled off their addresses, which she wrote on the back of an envelope, and said: ‘Go and bang on their doors as well!’ "

Story from the tumblr blog linked above, I think it's hilarious!

R25 R26

Here's a link to that interview.

M: -and that love comes through in the book. Did he love you?

Paul: Yeah. I don’t think it was… Yeah, I think he did actually. *laughs* We’ll check. Just excuse me for a moment. ‘John, come on, baby, did, yes.’ Yeah, I think he did, yeah. It wasn’t actually a spiky relationship at all. It was, uh, very warm, very close and very loving, I think. All The Beatles. We used to say, I think we were amongst the first sort of men to come out openly – and you remember, it was quite sort of strange in those days, we’re talking about a long time ago now when homosexuality was still sort of largely illegal – we used to say ‘I love him’ on interviews and the interviewers would get slightly taken aback, a man saying he loved someone. But I think, quite genuinely, we really did and I still do. Um, but the business thing came right in the middle of it, the lawyers came along with the business thing and I talked to John many years. Because the great saving grace was we did put our relationship back together.

You never see George or Ringo looking like this with bandmates...

Wasn't Paul jealous of Stu Sutcliffe's close relationship with John? (This was in addition to Paul's growing irritation at Stu's nonexistent musical skills and John's insistence on keeping him in the band). Stu's sister said or felt that Stu and John had been lovers (before Astrid entered the picture).

[quote]You never see George or Ringo looking like this with bandmates...

Exactly. Just look at the gifs posted at R22.

"And we looked into each other’s eyes, the eye contact thing we used to do, which is fairly mind-boggling. You dissolve into each other. But that’s what we did, round about that time, that’s what we did a lot. And it was amazing. " - Paul McCartney in Many Years From Now by Barry Miles

“I believe that the volatile groups Lennon and McCartney, Martin and Lewis, Gilbert and Sullivan… We don’t have teams nowadays, we have to go back in time, but um, Martin and Lewis, and specially Lennon and McCartney - those two groups.. were love affairs, those were two people who fell in love; Lennon and McCartney were certainly in love. And then when things start to not go right, love is heartbreaking. "

“John never looked at anyone the way he looked at Paul.“ - Cynthia Lennon

Paul and Elton John kissing.

MARY....

Lennon on the folly of trying not to be yourself (from the last Rolling Stone interview)...

[quote]I’m often afraid, but I’m not afraid to be afraid, otherwise it’s all scary. But it’s more painful to try not to be yourself. People spend a lot of time trying to be somebody else, and I think it leads to terrible diseases. Maybe you get cancer or something. A lot of tough guys die of cancer, have you noticed? John Wayne, Steve McQueen. I think it has something to do – I don’t know, I’m no expert – with constantly living or getting trapped in an image or an illusion of themselves, suppressing some part of themselves, whether it’s the feminine side or the fearful side.

[quote]I’m well aware of that because I come from the macho school of pretense. I was never really a street kid or a tough guy. I used to dress like a Teddy boy and identify with Marlon Brando and Elvis Presley, but I never really was in real street fights or real down-home gangs. I was just a suburban kid, imitating the rockers. But it was a big part of one’s life to look tough. I spent the whole of my childhood with shoulders up around the top of me head and me glasses off because glasses were sissy, and walking in complete fear, but with the toughest-looking face you’ve ever seen. I’d get into trouble just because of the way I looked. I wanted to be this tough James Dean all the time. It took a lot of wrestling to stop doing that, even though I still fall into it when I get insecure and nervous. I still drop into that I’m-a-street-kid stance, but I have to keep remembering that I never really was one.

[quote]I look at early pictures of me-self, and I was torn between being Marlon Brando and being the sensitive poet – the Oscar Wilde part of me with the velvet, feminine side. I was always torn between the two, mainly opting for the macho side, because if you showed the other side, you were dead.

The Guardian.- Paul McCartney to publish 900-page lyrical 'autobiography'

"The Lyrics, a ‘self-portrait in 154 songs’, will look at the people, places and circumstances behind songs written in boyhood, with the Beatles and beyond."

R20 as if it weren’t obvious enough they had to include a reference to Ono’s scream performance art lol.

This thread is really hot.

Lennon fucked a young James Taylor when Taylor briefly signed with Apple.

R41. Receipts?

What kind of receipt were you looking for from 1970, R42? Are you asking OP for their receipts?

R41, yeah, okay.

Gross

Gross???

Here's the John/Paul kiss in the elevator scene from the movie "Two of Us", directed by Michael Lindsey-Hogg, who also directed "Let It Be" and the videos for Paperback Writer, and Rain, Hey Jude, Revolution…

He knew John and Paul very well....

Interesting two-parter about the Lennon-McCartney relationship. I just found this (sorry if it's been posted)...

Vol 2...

Paul McCartney and the many times he talks about sharing a bed with John.-

"We grew up literally in the same bed because when we were on holiday, hitchhiking or whatever, we would share a bed. Or when we were writing songs as kids he’d be in my bedroom or I’d be in his."

‘Look, I’ve slept with him.’ We’ve done hitch-hiking holidays and we’ve had to top and tail it because there was only one bed. I say: ‘I knew him’.

Paul McCartney answers questions for Q magazine, 1998 “If John Lennon could come back for a day, how would you spend it with him?” “In bed.”

John Lennon had the ugliest penis I have ever seen on the cover of that album.

Why the fuck would we want him to be bi or gay?

R49 "I slept with John a lot" .- Paul McCartney

“I could even hear what they were saying off-mike; ‘Oh Paul, you’re so cute tonight.’ was met with the reply 'Sod off, Lennon.’”

-Joan Baez on accompanying the Beatles to their concert in Red Rocks Amphitheatre, Denver.

26 August 1964

Lots of interesting circumstantial evidence here. The other well know show biz duo where I'm pretty sure one had feelings for the other was Martin and Lewis. I think Jerry was in love with Dean, and Dean understood it. Used it to his advantage.

For me, the most convincing evidence about Lennon and McCartney are the diss tracks they traded back and forth in the early '70s. Some of those lyrics are SO bitter, they could only have come from someone who felt deeply hurt. The kind of hurt that a mere friend could never cause. As with Martin and Lewis, I think John was in love with Paul, and Paul knew it. John began to resent Paul for knowing it, and that was the root cause of The Beatles break up.

Had John not been killed, The Beatles would almost certainly have reunited at some point. Maybe for Live Aid in 1985. Maybe in the aftermath of 9/11 in 2001. Mark David Chapman certainly robbed us of some special days.

R53 I don’t know...The Smiths never got back together...but I suppose there is still hope!

From the "Get Back" sessions:

January 24th, 1969. After John and Paul run through another take of ‘Two Of Us’, Paul comments on the narratives and discreet emotional correlation between their songs.

PAUL: It’s like, uh, “We have to get back.” “We’re on our way home.”

JOHN: Yeah.

PAUL: There’s a story. There’s another one – ‘Don’t Let Me Down’. “Oh darling, I’ll never let you down.” Like we’re doing—

JOHN: Yeah. It’s like you and me are lovers.

PAUL: [reserved] Yeah. [pause]

JOHN: We’ll just have to camp it up for those two.

PAUL: Yeah. Well, I’ll be wearing my skirt for the show, anyway.

Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned...

R55 never saw that before! Thanks!

"John and I went to Paris on birthday money he received from a relative. He must have been fond of me to spend that money. He let me have all the banana milkshakes I wanted."- Paul McCartney

“Don’t you miss England?”, - “Frankly”, John replied, “I miss Paris.”

Damn R58 that’s hot.

Q magazine 1998: If John Lennon could come back for a day how would you spend it with him? Paul: "In bed"

NME 2019: "I dream about him,” McCartney revealed. “When you’ve had a relationship like that for so long, such a deep relationship… I love when people revisit you in your dreams."

Dec 2020.- Paul where he admits that he is still sort in denial over John’s death and sometimes breaks down crying.

I think people in bands must form very intense friendships, at least until the lawyers and egoes get involved. They work together, travel together, create together, their lives and careers are entwined in a way that doesn't happen in other fields. I mean look at Jagger and Richards, they've been creative partners for sixty-odd years now, they've spent more time together than most family members, even though nobody ever said they were lovers it's like a marriage.

Imagine losing someone like that, first to a breakup and then to death. Of course it'd stay with you, whether you were lovers or not.

Paul McCartney included this pic of two beetles fucking on the cover of his album, RAM.

Not a coincidence and not subtle at all.

Who was the top?

Was that during the period when he was sort of feuding with John?

R63 it was. People thought the song Dear Boy on that album was about John, but according to what I’ve read it was actually written about Linda McCartney’s first husband. Of course…it could’ve been about both!

I don't know why people go on and on about this. Of course they loved each other--deeply loved each other. And maybe they messed around a bit, sexually--how could they not? They were young, hot, and were constantly being thrown together in intimate situations....So? Is this so hard to understand? Such a big deal?...Also, people shouldn't forget how many thousands of girls they had sex with--we cannot even imagine....

It seems it was much more than 'maybe, they messed aroud a bit'. As someone has said in a previous post...

[quote]the most convincing evidence about Lennon and McCartney are the diss tracks they traded back and forth in the early '70s. Some of those lyrics are SO bitter, they could only have come from someone who felt deeply hurt. The kind of hurt that a mere friend could never cause."

- “I think it was like John was married to Paul. And now he was married to me".- Yoko in Philip Norman's book.

- John played a tape of him and Yoko having sex. After a palpable silence, Paul said, "Well, that's an interesting one" John.- "I need you to understand this is where she and I are now, I don't want to hold your hand anymore".- Michael Lindsay-Hogg's book

- "John always referred to Paul as his estranged fiancée and things like that, like he did on that record 'I Saw Her Standing There’ with Elton on Madison Square Garden".- Tony King, Apple PR.

John wrote "If I Fell" on a Valentine's card that someone had given to Paul.

I wish they'd kept the gayer version of this scene in "It's Been A Hard Day's Night" movie (see the pics below)

[quote]John’s “If I Fell” was a songwriting breakthrough for him: his first forthright expression of the soft core of emotional vulnerability that he otherwise sought to mask with bravado, insouciance and wit…From the moment Paul’s voice joins John’s on the stately, rising melody, the whole tenor of the track changes. Their two parts do not move in simple, parallel motion (like a couple holding hands); instead their voices perform an intricate courtship dance, ranging from a sixth to a third apart, alternately closing and widening the distance between them. “If I Fell” is a love song that seeks to move beyond the shaky ground of infactuation - beyond the very idea of falling (like the chords in the introdution) in love. By the last verse, the music sounds like a hymn, the singing an exchange of vows. (Source:Jonathan Gould, Can’t Buy Me Love: The Beatles, Britain and America, 2008)

*"A Hard Day's Night"

"If I Fell", isolated vocals:

I love those Hard Day’s Night photos!

I don't doubt for a minute that Lennon and McCartney truly loved each other (insofar as someone as narcy as John can love someone besides himself), and quite possibly dabbled sexually in between bedding 50 million girl groupies, but the reader blind at R20 screams "fanfic" and some of the posts here make me activate the same eyebrow raise as the Prancing Ponies.

On the other hand, Paul picking a thread or a hair off John's jacket in R22's pictures is the same gesture by which it was revealed to the world that Princess Margaret and Peter Townsend had it going on. She did that to him at either the Queen's wedding or the Coronation and photographers caught it. Even in the 1950s the public picked it for what it was.

Yes, social grooming behavior between intimate partners is non-trivial.

Paul McCartney is straight

John Lennon was BISEXUAL

Did Lennon ever have other boyfriends?

Because I don't count Epstein, that was Lennon whoring himself for the sake of his career.

Rarely seen, John at the piano and playful energy between them here.

So many really good songs...

Here's Paul’s poem Rocking On (probably, about John)

I want to smell your underarm odour I want to drink your ice cream soda Reminisce about our childhood What we did in deepest wildwood Let’s remember fifites cars And hanging out in late-night bars Want to give your back a rub Then jump into a foamy tub Laugh at all your High School joke s One too many Scotch and Cokes Want to stroke your furry kitten Don’t be shy you won’t be bitten When we’ve seen the babies doze off Let me see you take your clothes off When this world is dead and gone We will still be Rocking on!

- Blackbird Singing: Poems And Lyrics 1965-1999.

That's pretty good, very evocative and specific.

Yes, Paul's poem at R76 is very evocative

"Want to give your back a rub Then jump into a foamy tub...."

I fookin' luv that pic of nakey Paul and his cockhead.

❝There was a deeper love there that neither of us could admit to.❞

─ Paul McCartney.

R72 you don’t think Paul was into John?

Damn R78 Thanks for that!

"Leave Yoko!".- Paul McCartney interview w/ Bob Costas. (October 1991)

R66

Great comments from the Something About The Beatles Podcast (Episode 132: John and Paul - Truth and Beauty):

[quote]“It seems really strange when you look at it that March of 1969 within a fortnight of each other [John and Paul], each take up, marry a woman that is largely, whether they admit it or not, taking the place that they each had for each other in their lives. Their everything, their collaborator, their life partner. It is so unbelievable. It’s like what is going on here that they are so conspicuously filling the other’s previous space in their life with this new woman partner?…..It’s strange that there’s no other precedent for something like this in rock…..

[quote]It’s a very strange thing going on there in plain sight that I don’t think enough people really examine what the hell was going on with those two. That this is what they did. They’re sort of being reactive to each other, and you know, beginning in ’68 when John started bringing Yoko into the recording studio and occupying a space in his working environment and in his life that had previously been occupied by Paul…..You look at pictures John and Yoko took together where Yoko is posing exactly the same way Paul did in pictures taken previously. What is going on there? It is just a very strange thing that hasn’t gotten nearly, I think, the intelligent examination that it should. Ultimately, though, I don’t think they ever stopped loving each other…..The opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference. And [John and Paul] were never, ever indifferent toward each other.”

Happy Birthday, Macca!

[quote]The John Lennon Instagram hitting us with a double Gayze

Brian Epstein is the lynchpin in all this……I’ve always wondered how he became their manager….did he meet Lennon under different circumstances (like a tea room). Lennon received a lot of homophobic crap because of that vacation to Spain with Brian…..by themselves. In the 70’s Lennon had his ‘lost year’ when him and Yoko separated and he was working out some personal issues….during that time he was spending a lot of time with Elton John and Bowie. I think he was coming to terms with his repressed homosexuality. But to think that the most successful band in the world was conceived by two Gay men gives me a lot of pride.

This thread is epic. Thanks, all.

Happy Birthday, Macca! 79 today.

"Brian Epstein is the lynchpin in all this……I’ve always wondered how he became their manager….did he meet Lennon under different circumstances (like a tea room)."

The official story is believable enough, Epstein wander into a cellar full of boys and was blown away by both the music and their rough-trade appeal, especially Lennon's. He drops everything and becomes their manager, partly because he correctly thinks they can sell big, partly because of his personal feelings for Lennon. The fact that Lennon at least partly encouraged these feelings has become part of the official story, and so has Lennon's later cruelty to Epstein.

Maybe John's relations with Epstein were a matter of taking one for the team, maybe he had a habit of slipping away from the guys for some secret fun. Who knows, but if he was hanging with Bowie and Elton during his split from Yoko, that does suggest an attempt to come to terms with the bi feelings, at least to us. But he went back to Yoko, the pull of the domineering wife/mother figure was too strong.

None of the Beatles were "desperately" poor. They were solid working-class. So that CDAN BI is nonsense.

That said, the relationship between John and Paul is a fascinating one, because it demonstrates that one life can contain hugely varied emotional responses. Paul actually had a reputation as the town bull in his late teens. I don't doubt that he was genuinely into his girlfriends and wives sexually and was fully engaged in raising families with them, and that Linda's death from breast cancer was truly horrible for him.

But the formative creative bond with Lennon at so young an age, everything they shared, must have been potent beyond anything any mere woman could match.

It's not an unknown phenomenon. For Paul, at least, I think both sexes attracted. But John. I think, was more questionable.

Cynthia and John met in art school and formed an instant connection. She was up the duff when they got married. The connection I think was real. But sadly for Cynthia, I think she spoke the truth when she said that John never looked at anyone the way he looked at Paul. That was the more profound connection. That she understood that is rather, moving, I think (she also died of breast cancer, albeit long after the marriage ended).

This is a great thread.

R88

Yea…I know that story…but always wondered if there was a missing part that was never disclosed.

Wandering into the club vs. going to the club because he ‘knew’ someone in the band he met under different circumstances.

It’s the same thing …but told just a little different not to ‘out’ someone due to the fact that homophobia could ruin the band at that time.

I guess we will really never know……except for Paul maybe…I expect he would be moot on the subject.

After all Lennon was a leather boy in those Hamburg days…..Hamburg was Sodom back then after the war.

"None of the Beatles were "desperately" poor. They were solid working-class. "

John and Paul were both middle class, stable but not prosperous. George was from a solid working-class family, Ringo was the only one who actually came from poverty.

And yeah, we'll never know the real story, unless Macca writes an honest memoir when he's too old to perform and needs something to do with his time. I'd put better odds on his dying onstage.

Remember that photo someone posted of Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis in the shower? It was hotly contested on here as to whether it was real…it sure looked real to me. I wish we had one like that of John and Paul!

[quote]But sadly for Cynthia, I think she spoke the truth when she said that John never looked at anyone the way he looked at Paul.

TRUE. These pics speak a thousand words but ,sadly for John and Paul, they didn't have the chance of starting over.....

A recap of some interesting comments from the 'John and Paul were BI' threads in DL.

[quote]"Some quotes have been taken from the comment section of a now ‘deleted’ thread about Paul’s bisexuality.* @mclennonwasreal had the original post before it was deleted. Still convinced it was Paul’s PR team who removed it"

Has anyone ever heard of Paul being involved with another guy, or even flirting with one? Has anyone heard of John being involved with a guy other than Paul or Brian?

Because they both racked up some serious numbers with women when they were younger, so if they're bi I wonder if they're very far up the Kinsey scale.

R97, see the posts R96

[quote] "I can tell you that John and Paul never hid the fact that they were together in the 60's and they were referred to as music’s 'first official same sex couple' by those in their close music circles. I found this out from my mother who was a 'go for' for a music director in the 60's. She worked behind the scenes for the 'Help!' music video. She has seen John and Paul backstage and always refers to their behaviour around each other as cute, and claims after spending a few minutes with them it was obvious they were deeply in love

[quote]“I asked a guy who was very artsy and in the scene in the 70's, and who knew Yoko and John through acquaintances, what he thought of John dumping his much more beautiful first wife to run off with Yoko. He said very simply John enjoyed sex with men. Yoko allowed him to have sex with as much as he wanted, she had no problem with it so long as it did not get too serious."

Fascinating and hot, R96…thanks for that!

R96 Wow. Thank you for capturing and sharing that.

Oh, so R96's quotes were taken from ... HERE!!!

Pretty unreliable source, then.

R101, what do you want? a sex tape? Try to find all those threads full of posts from insiders. Read these quotes from the books.

It's people who met them, who worked with them, who lived near them.....

And even, those who married them;

- Yoko said that John was BI.

- Cynthia Lennon said that "John never looked at anyone the way he looked at Paul"

- “One time Paul had a chick in bed and John came in and got a pair of scissors and cut all her clothes into pieces calling her a whore and what not. He got like that occassionaly.”-George Harrison

-“I was just the same as everyone else Harry, I fell for Paul’s looks.“ - John Lennon to Harry Nilsson

- The Apple staff referred to Paul as 'John's princess'.

[quote]“I was just the same as everyone else Harry, I fell for Paul’s looks.“ - John Lennon to Harry Nilsson

Yeah. Far be it from him to notice Paul's talent. John was, in his dreams, the only talent in the band.

R102 - Odd, I never found Paul that attractive. I never went, personally, for the choir-boy face; and he looked way full of himself, as well.

George, on the other hand . . .

George was always my crush too, those eyes! But yeah, Paul was cute, and a mainstream band does need a "cute one".

R91, I imagine that Paul is mute on the subject, not moot…

And the fact that John [italic] did [/italic] marry an Asian woman means absolutely nothing!

Take it from me

After reading all this, and looking at the photos, I am convinced there was a romantic and sexual relationship between John and Paul. Hiding in plain sight. They were still part of a generation and perhaps class where this was kept largely secret. Paul appears largely straight with a bit of bi. John I think strongly gay with a capacity for heterosexual interest (so bi in the end). It's unimaginable to me that some romantic affection did not develop with all that sleeping together by these two highly sensitive and artistic young men which occasionally was expressed sexually.

Paul's later statement that if John were to return briefly he would want to spread that time in bed with him glinched it for me. Those were highly emotional times for them.

I came to these threads thinking the whole thing was silly.

clinched^

This thread may be of interest to you posters also.

[quote]Genuinely surprised if you haven't come across these quotes from the following YouTube videos yet: "The woman who saved Paul McCartney | 60 Minutes Australia" @6:25 & "Paul McCartney sets record straight on relationship with Lennon | Parkinson Interview 12 Oct 1997" @22:20. Seems to me like Paul's literally admitted he's not straight already and I'm living for it even if it flew under the radar.

“Did he love you?”

Paul.- “Yeah, I think he did actually. It wasn’t a spiky relationship at all, it was very warm, very close, and very loving.....homosexuality was still largely illegal sure...but then the business came and the lawyers arrived...”

“we were the first to sort of come out”

I have to say this thread changed my mind about Paul. Definitely loved Lennon, def at least a bit bi, and probably didn't come to terms with it until old age.

Awww...

I listened to the Parkinson interview at R112, and I don't read it the same way. I think Paul was saying the Beatles all loved each other [platonically], and it was just because people were uptight about homosexuality in that era that it was unusual they came out and said so, whereas today boy band members feel free to throw ILYs around. (He was using "came out" in that sense, but he got distracted mid-sentence.)

Now, whether it was true they all loved each other platonically, or true that all of them said they loved each other in interviews, who can remember. Maybe nobody said it, maybe it was only John and Paul who said it, and maybe they said it as a cover for a real affair. But I absolutely don't think in that interview with Parkinson McCartney is openly revealing a homosexual love for John that he pointed to publicly in the 60s. His fondness for John is obvious, but that's all I can tell from that interview.

I'm prepared to believe they were in love, but in my view this doesn't prove it, or even actively imply it. The dots in the quotes at R112 represent missing words that change the meaning.

Lennon and McCartney had an intense musical connection….that sort of connection feels like love. Any serious musician will attest to that…when they find someone they can connect to musically….they are moving in harmony ..in tandem …it is a special bond… John and Paul had that times a thousand.

Happy Pride Month by John Lennon (1972)

[quote]He let me have all the banana milkshakes I wanted."- Paul McCartney

Is that a euphemism for something? Sounds like Paul was having fun with the reporter.

Something About the Beatles is a weekly podcast by author Robert Rodriguez. This recent episode explores the Lennon/McCartney relationship...

-“I only ever asked two people to work with me as a partner. One was Paul McCartney and the other Yoko Ono” -John Lennon

- “With Yoko present, Paul McCartney’s reign as Lennon’s princess was doomed.” “Apple To The Core”, by Peter McCabe & Robert Schonfeld

- "I was just some chick from New York when I walked into all of that. God, if I’d known what I know now… . All I could do was sit there watching them play these games… .” -Linda McCartney From Playboy, 1984.

- “The Beatles are over. It has been exploded, partly by what we have done, and partly by other people. We are individuals - all different. John married Yoko, I married Linda.” -Paul McCartney

- “I think that it’s like [John] was married to Paul, and now he was married to me” -Yoko Ono

- “I thought John was cheating on me with Paul” - Yoko Ono

Yoko is clearly a piece of work, if those two statements attributed to her at R120 are true. How completely insulting to Cynthia and Linda the first one is, and what's the point of saying the second, when her advertising was all "I'm Ms Openminded, I let John be a free spirit and do whatever he needs."

R93 Paul was not middle class, his family were working class, they lived in Council(public) terraced housing(long row of attached houses) and the only reason they ended up in a slightly nicer neighborhood than George's family was Paul's mother was a Council midwife and she worked hard to get placements into nicer, but still council neighborhoods. The housing came with the job.

She died a year or two after they moved to Forthlin Rd but they were allowed by the Council to remain in the same house. Just before that they lived in the same neighborhood as George Harrison, Speke, and George and Paul met on the bus going that took them to school. They were friends before John and Paul met and Paul got George into the band.

John lived in a semi detached house that his aunt and uncle OWNED. It's an entirely different thing.

Ringo lived in a very poor neighborhood known as The Dingle I think.

Ono really doesn’t seem to realize how she sounds. I think the reason she loathes Julian Lennon is because had he not been born, it would have been easier for her to “erase” the John - Cynthia marriage.

Hah! These two predators belong together.

[quote]According to the American Bar Association, grooming is “a predatory process” which entails gradually gaining a person’s trust with intent to abuse. The victim is usually “a child, teen, or vulnerable adult.”

" I think the reason she loathes Julian Lennon is because had he not been born, it would have been easier for her to “erase” the John - Cynthia marriage."

It'd certainly be easy to convince John that the marriage never existed, he only married Cynthia because she was pregnant and he didn't want Julian and never seemed to have much feeling for him.

The press and public were another matter, of course.

You know..the Beatles go so together with getting stoned…..especially the stuff after they ‘turned on’…

they are still in a league all their own…….

From one of John's "Real Life" demos..... about Paul and him.

Was I just dreaming, was it only yesterday?

I used to hold you in my arms

And now the baby

And another on the way

(...) In the farm

Why must we be alone

[quote]"My favourite part of that demo is after mentioning those things he calms himself down then sings 'just call him on the phone' and ends it. He was going to call Paul so he stopped playing."

My favorite Yoko song is probably’Every Man has Someone Who Loves Him’ off Double Fantasy. She and John were attempting to fuse avant-garde into rock and roll. That started way back with Revolution 9 on the White Album. Revolution 9 was solely a Yoko/John collaboration. Weird but interesting…….especially @ 2am while flying on acid…..that gave it new meaning ……so to speak

I think John may have dabbled, but no- straight.

John and Paul met each other for first time, on this day, July 6th,1957 at the Woolton Village Fete.

-“I was very impressed by Paul playing Twenty Flight Rock. he was good, so he was worth having. He also looked like Elvis. I dug him.” — John Lennon

- “I just thought, ‘Well, he looks good, he’s singing well and he seems like a great lead singer to me. Of course, he had his glasses off, so he really looked suave. I remember John was good..-[Paul, talking about his first impressions of John, Record Collector Magazine, 1995]

-"That was the day, the day that I met Paul, that it started moving"-John Lennon

- “To lose your mum at fourteen is not easy. It was very difficult for a few years – just trying come to terms with it. But then I found music… and John.” - Paul McCartney

- “I just saw a girl who said she saw John Lennon walking down the street in New York wearing a button that said, “I love Paul.” She asked him, “Why are you wearing an ‘I love Paul’ button?” and he said, “Because I love Paul.”” - Harry Nilsson

-"The boy had polish and heat. He wore a white jacket with silver threads—he looked like Elvis, John thought. “Right off, I could see John checking this kid out,” said Shotton (who played the washboards for the Quarry Men)."

-" Another friend said that John and Paul “circled each other like cats.” Clearly, these two boys had chemistry—that ineffable quality of attraction that feels like a primal, physical force and that often descends like a lightning strike. As with the passion of love, or the nature of creativity itself, science has struggled to account for chemistry."-Inside the Lennon and McCartney Connection, Slate.com, September 14, 2010

- “Right off, I could see John was checking this kid out,” says Pete Shotton, who was standing behind John, off to the side. “Paul came on as very attractive, very loose, very easy, very confident – wildly confident. He played the guitar well. I could see that John was very impressed.”- (The Beatles: The Biography, by Bob Spitz)

[quote] “In January 1994, Paul McCartney was given two tape cassettes by Lennon’s widow Yoko Ono that included home recordings of songs Lennon never completed or released commercially.

[quote]"On one of the tapes, the words “for Paul” had been scrawled hastily in John’s handwriting. The songs on the tape included “Grow Old With Me” and “Now and Then”.

Paul in "Dear Friend": Are you afraid, or is it true?

John in "Now and Then": I know it's true, it's all because of you.

It’s Every Man Has a Woman…I prefer the version where Lennon’s voice is stronger in the mix.

Early Paul McCartney song lyric and a doodle, "Hold Me Tight".

[quote]"Written for/about the person in the doodle? With a nose like that it could only be one person? Yeah?"

[quote]"I remember vividly Jonathan Cott describing John wandering around on a daze humming this specific song in 1968. I even wrote a post about it. Starting to think there might be a backstory to it we don't know about."

This was not a simple break up between two cast mates and friends.

— Hunter Davies, off the record telephone conversation with Paul McCartney, 1981

[quote]“I suggested that he should write it all down, or tape it, record in his words what he thinks was the relationship with John, exorcise it once and for all, then stick it in a drawer and forget it. “I might. I did that after being in jail. I’ve written my feelings about that. I wasn’t allowed pencil and paper in jail, and it was all I wanted, so when I came home I wrote it straight out. I don’t know what to do with it. I don’t want that usual publishing scene. It’s just for me. It’s about 20,000 words. Linda and one or two other people have read it and think it’s good. I got a private printer, just to print for me one copy, one only. I’ve got it. I just wanted a plain white cover and, inside, just black words on white paper. On cheap white paper. I wanted it like an Olympia press book. Just a cheap little thing. It fits in the pocket, just six inches by about four. I did for a time think of publishing a few and selling them off the back of a barrow. Telling no one, just suddenly selling them in the street, for a few bob. But I don’t want a big thing. Then I heard that some pop musician had already done this, so I didn’t want it to look like copying. So I just have the one copy. I’ll let you read it sometime. Tell me what you think. As for me and John, yeah, I might write it down.””

I think he's waiting for Yoko to pop off. I really do. Meanwhile, we're all getting a little impatient. *drums fingers on desk*

R135, all that detail was about his musings about being in jail, not about John.

[quote]“I suggested that he should write it all down, or tape it, record in his words what he thinks was the relationship with John, exorcise it once and for all"

[quote]"As for me and John, yeah, I might write it down.”

Together, in their bubble....

IDGI. All you did was pick out the two times in a long paragraph that John was mentioned.

Also, they're recording the song Paul wrote to console Julian because his father was an asshole to him, so it's not all THAT romantic.

R137/R139, in some of your previous posts you said that "you're ready to accept that John and Paul were in love". Once again, what more do you want? a sex tape? a tell-all book from McCartney?

We can only speculate with what we have : their interviews, the books, the friends who said 'it was love at first sight' : the Apple staff:"Paul was Lennon's princess"

- Paul's “If John Lennon could come back for a day, how would you spend it with him?” Paul: “In bed.”

-John was jealous of Paul’s girlfriends.

-Paul was mad jealous of Stuart (Paul McCartney in The Anthology).

-“One time Paul had a chick in bed and John came in and got a pair of scissors and cut all her clothes into pieces calling her a whore and what not. He got like that occassionaly.”-George Harrison

-They did many secret holidays just the two of them during the 60s.

- “A song by an old estranged fiancee of mine called Paul” -John speaking of “I Saw Her Standing There

- “We were each other’s intimates.” -Paul

- If I knew what I know now...." Linda McCartney

- “John never looked at anyone the way he looked at Paul.“ - Cynthia Lennon

- -Paul used to take photos of John when he was asleep. The next person who will do this will be Yoko Ono, John’s wife. This is very intimate.

-When John and Paul split up, John told him that “he didn’t want to hold his hand anymore”, and Paul left Abbey Road crying.

-“With Yoko present, Paul McCartney’s reign as Lennon’s princess was doomed.”

- the songs and poems that they wrote about each other

etc....etc....etc

More here:

Paul McCartney's new vid "Find My Way" with the spider hand thingy that he and John used to do to each other.

I’m guessing John was the bottom.

Mostly, R142.

"- If I knew what I know now...." Linda McCartney"

When did Linda say this? How interesting...

It seems that both their wives knew what was going on between John and Paul.

Yoko Ono did mention it, as revealed in Norman's latest book, how John was attracted to Paul. She also said to Philip Norman that "it was like John was married to Paul and now, he's married to me".

"I was just some chick from New York when I walked into all of that. God, if I’d known what I know now… . All I could do was sit there watching them play these games… .” - Linda McCartney, From Playboy, 1984.

"Then, I found music...and John".- Paul McCartney

McCartney said that he liked the "Two of Us" movie.

That includes this kissing scene....

John and Paul sharing clothes....

[quote]they filmed the Hey Jude and Revolution videos on the same day, September 4th 1968, and in Hey Jude, John is wearing this lavender henley shirt that’s a little loose on him. Then in the Revolution video, Paul is very obviously wearing the exact same shirt because it’s just a little tight.

Maybe they had sex in between the sets and Paul then picked up the wrong shirt and put it on.

Or maybe the video producer just wanted Paul to have a change of clothes between songs and nobody else's shirt was big enough. Had he worn it the next day it would be more of a smoking gun.

More examples of John and Paul sharing clothes....

I once in college had sex with a guy and then put on his pants and walked away. Blue jeans, hard to tell the difference in the afterglow.

That's why I suggested that.

R151 that’s really hot. Thanks for posting.

R151, that's pretty intimate. Combined with sleeping together. I'm convinced.

They liked the smell of each other's funk.

R151 Too fookin' funny!

The striped shirt @R251 looks like they were quite young. So they started early with the clothes swapping. This fits my theory of teenage love affair, immediately smitten with each other as mutual geniuses who could only communicate with each other, immediate friendship. This continues with John more strongly bisexual but for Paul the same sex and romance only worked with John. John is the lover, Paul the beloved mostly, John's "Princess" as acquaintances said.

After they'd made up, Paul would often pop by The Dakota, unannounced. I guess Yoko, or John, or both of them found it ultimately disruptive, because eventually John told him "You really can't keep coming by like this. This isn't Liverpool you know."

I believe Lennon actually told this story shortly before his death. Seems very ex-girlfriendish.

[quote]The striped shirt [R251] looks like they were quite young. So they started early with the clothes swapping. This fits my theory of teenage love affair, immediately smitten with each other as mutual geniuses who could only communicate with each other, immediate friendship. This continues with John more strongly bisexual but for Paul the same sex and romance only worked with John. John is the lover, Paul the beloved mostly, John's "Princess" as acquaintances said.

About their first meeting:

“I was thinking the other day, ‘I wish I had sat and just hugged John all the time when we were together.’ (…) I’d just sit around and hug him forever. That’s the depth of my feeling for him.” - Paul McCartney, 2020

Q Magazine - 1998 Q: “If John Lennon could come back for a day, how would you spend it with him?” Paul: “In bed.”

Sorta hiding in plain sight.

I wonder if George got in on it.

Ringo would have kept right out of it!

[quote]“I was thinking the other day, ‘I wish I had sat and just hugged John all the time when we were together.’ (…) I’d just sit around and hug him forever. That’s the depth of my feeling for him.” - Paul McCartney, 2020

R159 Can you tell us where that quote came from? Was it an interview? Odd that there's no date, location or interviewer attribution.

R159 R162 Interview for The Adam Buxton Podcast • Friday, December 11, 2020 Paul McCartney on the Adam Buxton Podcast

R164 Thanks, great interview.

I watched A Hard Day's Night last night. I'm on the fence about McLennon, but I would posit this in favour of the theory: Richard Lester scrupulously avoided letting us see eye contact between Paul and John. It gets really noticeable if you're looking for it (as I was, to test the theory). There are several shots of one of them where you imagine he might be looking fondly at the other, but you never actually see what is in his eyeline. There are few-to-zero incidental shots of one of them flashing a look (of any kind) at the other. In fact, their total exposure in the film is oddly less than George's and Ringo's.

And yet you'd have thought, them being the main focus of the band and a famous writing team, that it would be in the studio's interest to show them kidding around together.

Are Beatles fans scoffing at me as you read because there is a well-known explanation for all this?

[quote]There are several shots of one of them where you imagine he might be looking fondly at the other, but you never actually see what is in his eyeline

Yep. Supposedly, and according to the BTS pics, John was going to sing his love song "If I Fell" to Paul in A Hard Day's Night.

But he ended singing it....to Ringo.

Yes, I very much noticed that. And that is also the occasion of the main set of solo shots where you can't tell who is looking at who.

R166, the film was shot in a series of short takes, a very unusual style for the time, because the Beatles weren't actors and didn't know how to use their eyes like a trained film actor does. A good film actor can speak volumes with their eyes, a really good actor can make a scene dramatic just by making or dropping eye contact at a certain moment. But the Beatles were total amateurs who could barely even memorize dialogue, and who had no idea how to use their eyes, so with the exception of Ringo's solo scenes (Ringo had the most talent as an actor), the whole film was shot in that quick-cut way that covered their deficiencies and allowed the director to create performances in the editing room.

So I suppose it's fair to say that this film has much less eye contact between the main characters than a typical movie, but not for the reason you thought.

The photo of John singing to Paul is hot.

[quote]The photo of John singing to Paul is hot.

They should have left that scene in the film (John wrote "If I Fell" in the back of a Valentine's card that was given to Paul) but maybe, it was too much....

[quote]So I suppose it's fair to say that this film has much less eye contact between the main characters than a typical movie, but not for the reason you thought.

Except that there is a reasonable amount of eye contact between everyone else and George and Ringo. And it's not just Ringo who has scenes - George has a few scenes to himself as well. I'm not saying it must mean Paul and John were in love, but it's noticeable and it's not entirely what you say. It might just have been that Paul and John were busier than the others doing other things, such as writing the album, but they're definitely the co-stars rather than the stars of the movie.

Regarding the Beatles having trouble learning lines, I noticed more than once that Lennon didn't know the words of the song he was singing. Because the recording was correct it wasn't screamingly obvious, but it was clear.

They were just so much to fun to watch in that movie.

Brian Epstein was a sex addict. His first sexual experiences as a teenager were with rough trade in tea rooms. He frequented tea rooms as often as he good. Being arrested once did not stop him. He was addicted to the sexual rush and danger of cruising. Later when was managing the Beatles he was spending huge amounts of money on rent-boys and drugs. On tour with the Beatles he often disappeared for days cruising for sexual partners. He neglected them and his business suffered as a result. Brian like rough men who would insult him and beat him during sex. Many of them shook him down for money and drugs. The Beatles knew about all of this. As we all know eventually Brian died of an overdose. His weekend plans with Peter Brown included expensive rent boys and drugs. To some extent John blamed himself for Brian's death because he thought they - the Beatles -had introduced him to drugs. I think it's possible something could have happened in Spain between John and Brian, John was the sort of rough male that turned Brian on.I could see some sort of role play going on without John fucking Brian. I don't think anything every happened between John and Paul - they were so close - like brothers. I hope someday the Brian Epstein movie gets made.

R174 Brothers don't wish to spend the day in bed with each other:

Q: “If John Lennon could come back for a day, how would you spend it with him?”

Paul: “In bed.” Paul McCartney, Q Magazine - 1998

A 'brother' (Paul) would never write a poem like this one to his 'brother' (John):

I want to smell your underarm odour I want to drink your ice cream soda Reminisce about our childhood What we did in deepest wildwood Let’s remember fifites cars And hanging out in late-night bars Want to give your back a rub Then jump into a foamy tub Laugh at all your High School jokes One too many Scotch and Cokes Want to stroke your furry kitten Don’t be shy you won’t be bitten When we’ve seen the babies doze off Let me see you take your clothes off When this world is dead and gone We will still be Rocking on!

-Paul McCartney, Blackbird Singing: Poems And Lyrics 1965-1999.

"Regarding the Beatles having trouble learning lines, I noticed more than once that Lennon didn't know the words of the song he was singing. "

The Beatles had discovered marijuana, and were pretty well stoned during the shooting of the movie. Maybe it helped them be relaxed and natural in front of the camera, because they are relaxed and natural in front of the camera. I saw the film against last night, and it's still totally enjoyable!

And it seems that a Brian Epstein biopic is being made.

Richard Lester says the Beatles were stoned throughout the filming of HELP!, but it wasn't a problem.

Was Peter Brown gay too?

R178 Yes.

[quote]Brown had been rejected by his Catholic family due to his homosexuality, and was greatly influenced by Epstein’s success in business.

His book on his experiences with Brian, the Beatles and Yoko is awesome. He's a fascinating person and was very handsome. He is brutally honest about Brian.

LOL, Paul!

"It was a time when we walked by the docks

I told you, "I need you all of my life"

And watching the tugs rolling by together

Do you remember?

Do you remember the lights on the shore?

How they reflected the rain on the road?

I believed that you love me alone

It was real

Do you remember?

Now and then I see your face

I've been wanting a lovin' embrace

I've been looking for love, but it gets me nowhere"

-Get Enough Song by Paul McCartney

John and Paul, happier than ever...

R175 "in bed"

And here's a version of “Just like starting over” in which John mentions “the walrus” (Paul):

“Everyday we used to make love

why can’t we be making love nice and easy

the time has come

the walrus said

for you and me to stay in bed again

it’ll be just like starting over…”

People don't talk enough about the marriages of John and Paul, within 8 days of each other. It seems that John wanted to marry two days after Paul’s wedding, but couldn’t do it because of legal issues,

Looks like Paul’s wedding impacted John’s sudden desperate need to be married.

Why they got married so closely together?

Why they both worked with their wives as their primary collaborators after their partnership ended?

Why John always seemed to compare Paul and Yoko to each other?

So were Simon & Garfunkel

[quote]"On this day, 1961, John and Paul started their journey hitchhiking from Liverpool to Spain. Saving all of John's hefty £100 (£2283.37 in 2021) of birthday money for making the trip as long as possible."

[quote]"They made it to Paris and found they wanted to stay there for their holiday. The money lasted until 14 October when they made their way home after running out. The trip was apparently last minute so no one else knew where they were or if they were coming back. There are so many stories from their stay in Paris and what that city has meant to both of them over the years."

[quote]"Some pictures from their holiday (the last three are low quality because they are photos paul took of pictures he had hanging on the wall in his home, and put in a sideshow at his concert that someone else, in turn, took photos of):"

They seem both 1. Very different in those photos and 2. Very happy.

R187

[quote]There are so many stories from their stay in Paris and what that city has meant to both of them over the years."

"Frankly, I miss Paris".- John Lennon

In 2007, Paul described his idea of heaven as a journey to Spain through France....which is exactly what his trip to Paris in '61 was, with John:

Q:"it's a start to a journey to a much better place. You mean, better than England?"

Paul: "It's basically a start of a journey to France, Or Spain through France. Yeah, that's what it is. It's a much better place, Paris"

Happy Birthday thoughts for @johnlennon - Paul

From the article “Paul McCartney Doesn’t Really Want to Stop the Show” by David Remnick for The New Yorker (11 October 2021):

“Stella McCartney was in tears when she watched the [“Get Back”] film with her father. “It did occur to me, watching it, that we spent a lot of our childhood with Dad recovering from the turmoil and the breakup,” she told me. “Can you imagine being such a critical part of that creation and then having it crumble? And, as children, we were part of a process in which our dad was mourning. It was not an easy thing for Dad, and it lasted for a lot longer than we probably knew.”” .

None of them were sexy, except to a teen virgin girl.

[quote]In 2007, Paul described his idea of heaven as a journey to Spain through France....which is exactly what his trip to Paris in '61 was, with John.

[quote]"Frankly, I miss Paris".- John Lennon

Why their wives looks so manly?

The NYT review of McCartney's new book "The Lyrics" seems to damn him with faint praise (linked). I don't feel like investing in this weighty tome. The quote below I found on a blog. This guy still seems so tortured about his relationship with Lennon. The fact that he's not writing his autobiography but annotating his song lyrics is so indirect and oddly furtive, like he's still hiding something. What do you guys think?

[quote]Often I would think of John, and what a pity it was that we’d argued so publicly and so viciously at times. At the time of writing this song, in early 1971, he’d called the McCartney album ‘rubbish’ in Rolling Stone magazine. It was a really difficult time. I just felt sad about the breakdown in our friendship, and this song kind of came flowing out. ‘Dear friend, what’s the time? / Is this really the borderline?’ Are we splitting up? Is this ‘you go your way; I’ll go mine’? […]

[quote]John would say things like, ‘It was rubbish. The Beatles were crap.’ Also, ‘I don’t believe in The Beatles, I don’t believe in Jesus, I don’t believe in God.’ Those were quite hurtful barbs to be flinging around, and I was the person they were being flung at, and it hurt. So, I’m having to read all this stuff, and on the one hand I’m thinking, ‘Oh fuck off, you fucking idiot,’ but on the other hand I’m thinking, ‘Why would you say that? Are you annoyed at me or are you jealous or what?’ And thinking back fifty years later, I still wonder how he must have felt. He’d gone through a lot. His dad disappeared, and then he lost his Uncle George, who was a father figure; his mother; Stuart Sutcliffe; Brian Epstein, another father figure; and now his band. But John had all of those emotions wrapped up in a ball of Lennon. That’s who he was. That was the fascination.

[quote]I tried. I was sort of answering him here, asking, ‘Does it need to be this hurtful?’ I think this is a good line: ‘Are you afraid, or is it true?’ – meaning, ‘Why is this argument going on? Is it because you’re afraid of something? Are you afraid of the split-up? Are you afraid of my doing something without you? Are you afraid of the consequences of your actions?’ And the little rhyme, ‘Or is it true?’ Are all these hurtful allegations true? This song came out in that kind of mood. It could have been called ‘What the Fuck, Man?’ but I’m not sure we could have gotten away with that then.

[quote]Paul McCartney, on “Dear Friend”. In The Lyrics (2021)

[quote]"This guy still seems so tortured about his relationship with Lennon"

Yep. I think he has been so closeted and repressed....

Paul was unquestionably a twink in his late teens and 20s.

It's odd to me that Paul references John as much as he does. I have no idea why. But it's a regular feature in his public statements. I think it's fair to say most of us have moved on after John's horrific death. Yes, I know they were close. But does Ringo offer this much mental masturbation about John? And Paul never seems to get around to how he felt about George, now does he?

Could there be a less hot band mate pairing than John and Paul.

As this thread indicated Paul and John met as teenagers and apparently had an intense friendship almost from the start, based in part on their shared musical genius. It was a happenstance pairing for all of us, but emotionally for them. They were inseparable for a period when young. Even if not physical lovers that's a recognizable type of love. Classical literature deals with it. My guess is John was the lover (being older) and Paul the beloved. John's Princess, little Elvis, etc. Paul never had that with Ringo or George. Again regardless of whether there was actual sex there was a charge on screen between Paul and John, they played with gender. George and Ringo were unquestionably heterosexual men.

Anyway, Paul's old now. I can say from experience after a certain point you start ruminating on those now dead but significant relationships. Paul's in that now.

They weren’t ‘incredibly poor’ R20. They weren’t very affluent but they weren’t incredibly poor. Certainly not by the standards of Liverpool in the 1950s.

[quote]“My “simplest, most logical” reason that Yoko treated Paul as her main rival for John’s affections was… he was the main rival for John’s affections"

[quote]"How many books have been written about Lennon and McCartney, and on that period specifically, and not one of them has seriously suggested that John might be a bisexual man in love with his songwriting partner and closest adult companion? Now, we have writers timidly peeking out and saying, “Gee, it’s almost as if John was in love with Paul.” Has the evidence changed? Not much. Have we as a society become more educated and tolerant? Yes.”— Michael Gerber,

McCartney and Lennon as the ill-fated lovers, Pyramus and Thisbe...

“You wanna just tell but the truth, but you’ve got to be guarded, to some extent. Y’know, all the people who come out with the truth, normally get knocked down…”

- Paul McCartney discussing The Lyrics with Samira Ahmed, 2021

[quote]Is this a veiled reference to his bisexuality and life long love affair with John?

Get Back new teaser in Disney +.

The love triangle.

John -flirting, touching his hair- to Paul: "It's like you and me were lovers"

OMG, this scene from "Get Back".....

[quote]"So hold up, did John say “I don’t regret anything, not ever” and then deep throat the mic while staring in Paul’s direction? Is that what really happened in front of my eyeballs?"

Yep, pretty much.

“Paul used the fact that Brian was gay to get his own way. He’d come in and put on his bedroom eyes. He’d use his own sex appeal to manipulate Brian into doing what he wanted the band to do.”

- Tony Barrow

Paul seems like a cock tease. He probably "let" John blow him.

[quote]Paul seems like a cock tease. He probably "let" John blow him.

This scene from "Get Back", John giving head to the microphone while staring at Paul, after saying he doesnt regret anything at all like everyone I think we just figured out what happened in India....

R209 That scene is interesting because McCartney's trying to tell the truth about the cult-like atmosphere in India and how they subsumed their personalities. But Lennon keeps him honest, saying they also wrote songs (nearly 30, as it turns out) and maybe did other stuff in his room. Lennon's genius is to throw a "spanner in the works." Life is messy and complicated and the truth lies somewhere in the chaos.

FF to 2021: The only way to honor Lennon's memory is to tell the truth. "The Lyrics" was a red herring. At some level, I think McCartney wants to come clean. Maybe he finally will when Joke-o pops off.

[quote]In Let It Be Just as in Get Back, George then asks “what were you doing?” and John teasingly replies “Yes Paul, what were we doing?” MLH stays on this shot until Paul says “we just put our personalities under.”

[quote] Now, in Get Back, Paul’s comments about “putting their personalities under and not being truthful” are followed by John saying “Who was writing all them songs….in your room?” Perhaps it is rather telling that MLH doesn’t include this part of dialogue.

[quote] No, Get Back cuts out John’s implication about what happened in Paul’s room. Instead we get a closeup of John biting his lip and giving Paul a *LOOK*. Then we hear him start to breathe very heavily. Yet another cut follows and we’re back on Paul’s face, but we can still hear John panting as Paul talks.

[quote]No wonder this moment was edited the way it was by MLH, no wonder it was buried in the Beatles Vault for 50 odd years. Bless Peter Jackson for giving us this moment.

“One time Paul had a chick in bed and John came in and got a pair of scissors and cut all her clothes into pieces and then wrecked the wardrobe. He got like that occasionally.”

— George Harrison in The Beatles, Anthology, 1995

1.Paul revealed that John Lennon’s “Jealous Guy” is about him. (Paul McCartney - Playgirl, February 1985)

2.Paul admitted that there are things about John Lennon he wouldn’t tell unless both Yoko Ono and Cynthia Lennon were dead. (Hunter Davies, “off-the-record” telephone conversation with Paul, May 3, 1981)

3.For John’s birthday, they went to Paris and slept in one bed.

4.John used to call Paul ‘baby’, ‘love’ ‘bunny’.

5.They were the most important person in each other life.

6.John was jealous of Paul’s girlfriends.

7.Paul was jealous of Stuart. (Paul McCartney in The Anthology) . . . 13. John always compared his relationship with Paul to a marriage and sex.

14. John always used to describe Paul as handsome and cute. 15.Paul used to take photos of John when he was asleep. The next person who will do this will be Yoko Ono, John’s wife --- 24. In 1980 John wrote many unfinished love songs and put them together in a tape for Paul.

25.”Hey Jude” is about Julian, but unconsciously is about John.

26..”Oh!darling” is about Paul crying and wanting to die ‘cause John left him.

27.In his interviews Paul can’t stop saying that he slept with John many times. When a journalist asked him what he would do with John if he came back for a day, he answered ‘I would spend it in bed with him’. ( Paul McCartney answers questions for Q magazine, 1998)

January 26th, 1969: Paul arrives at the studio; George and Ringo are working out the melody for ‘Octopus’s Garden’ on the piano. John, who has been playing around on drums, chimes in none too discreetly with a question he’s been eager to ask Paul:

JOHN: Hey! Did you dream about me last night?

PAUL: [long pause] I can’t remember.

JOHN: Very strong dream. We both dreamt about it. It was amazing! Different dreams, you know, but I thought you must’ve been there. [inaudible] I was touching you. [inaudible]

PAUL: Nothing to worry about, though?

JOHN: Nothing to worry about, no.

(#through headphones you can hear John say 'nothing sexy though. right after he says I was touching you")

Brilliant documentary about the break up.

What happened or did not happen in India?

October 9th, 1971 (Hotel Syracuse, New York): John and Yoko celebrate John’s 31st birthday in their hotel room in Syracuse, New York, surrounded by friends and guests. John conducts a nostalgic singalong session, during which he lapses into a song by his old, estranged (and absent) fiancé:

JOHN: "Why HE had to go, I don’t know, HE wouldn’t say…"

A story I hadn't heard before from Art Garfunkel about a question Lennon asked him regarding Paul after the 1975 Grammy Awards...

who cares?

Whoever runs John Lennon's official IG, KNOWS....;)

The choice of pics and lyrics to wish a Happy Birthday to Paul.... As many suspected, "In My Life" was for Paul.

Nothing better for a Pride Month than this series.-

Understanding Lennon/McCartney TRAILER 2022.

bump

John is always the top in all the fanfic, but I feel like it would be Paul.

I hope that old hag Yoko dies soon so Paul can tell us about fucking and sucking with John.

John was the love of Paul's life.😢

PEOPLE.- "It's a Love Letter From John to Paul. Inside The Last Beatles Song 'Now and Then". Nov 2 2023.

Many have theorized that Lennon was eying some form of reunion with McCartney prior to his murder on Dec. 8, 1980. No one will ever know for sure, but the thought certainly makes the words of "Now and Then" extra poignant:

"And now and then If we must start again We will know for sure That I love you"

Martin is unable to confirm the song’s lyrical significance to McCartney, but he has his suspicions. “I do feel as though ‘Now and Then’ is a love letter to Paul written by John. I mean, I've never really asked Paul about it, and I'm not sure whether Paul would say, ‘Oh, that's definitely it,' because he wouldn't want to second guess John. But that's the sense I get. And I get the feeling that's why Paul was so determined to finish it.”

Fuck, what a rabbit hole.

It really does explain a lot.

I doubt we'll get much more out of Paul on the subject even when Yoko pops her clogs. But the info on these threads and photos are enough to convince me.

Brilliant thread. Have never really been a Beatles fan. This makes it all the more interesting. My only beef. I’m tired of this constant statements that one or other has to be a top or bottom. American porn has spoiled it all. Why does it always have to be one in the relationship has to take it up the arse? Why must one man always have a pretend vagina? This is why stupids straights especially straight women think of course, it’s only because you’re not getting the ‘real’ thing. Cock is wonderful! You don’t always have to play hide the sausage.

I don't know what John meant by the song, but I think it must accurately reflect Paul's feelings, he went to such lengths to make this thing perfect. What kind of love it is who can definitively say, but watching the official video I kept thinking of Sondheim's line about Seurat's work, "Mama is everywhere: he must have loved her so much!"

Mainstream journalism has finally discovered McLennon: PEOPLE, the Rolling Stone articles.... and now, the New York Times: it was (is) a love story between John and Paul.

"Now and Then, I miss you" The Love Story at the Heart of Last Beatles Song.

[quote]"Although it has been variously framed as a friendship, a rivalry, a partnertship of convenience, the best way to think about the relationship between these two geniuses is as a love affair. As far as we know it wasn't a sexual relationship but it was a passionate one. Intense, tender and tempestuous."

[quote]"Almost everything John Lennon and Paul McCartney felt -and they felt a lot-was poured into their music."

John's blowjob insinuations while talking to Paul....He didn't regret anything.

“I’m sure that if [Paul] had been a woman or something, he would have been a great threat, because there’s something definitely very strong with me, John, and Paul.”

— Yoko Ono, Revolution Tape, June 4th 1968.

"A woman or SOMETHING?" Que?

28 November 1974, Madison Square Garden.

On stage with Elton John, John Lennon called Paul McCartney "an old estranged fiance of mine".

This thread is three years old, but it's only halfway through Page 2.

How long did it take to get through Page 1? Six years?

I find this conversation fascinating!

Paul McCartney married Linda Eastman on 3/9/69 John Lennon married Yoko Ono on 3/20/69. I remembered when that happened and it struck me as odd. I did have to check the above dates but I knew it was close.

Yes, it's odd and interesting. Paul married Linda in March 12, 1969 and only eight days later, John married Yoko.

And neither showed up for each other's weddings. I mean, after being close for so much years, and yet not show up for each other's 'happiest day of their lives'....

“John and I went to Paris on birthday money he received from a relative. He must have been fond of me to spend that money. He let me have all the banana milkshakes I wanted.”

— Paul McCartney

60 years ago, John Lennon wrote the lyrics of "If I Fell" on the reverse of a Valentine's Day card given to Paul McCartney: