I just watched the first episode of Cheers

Yes, the Diane years were terrific. It became dumbed down after she left, but those first five seasons are gold.

One of the small handful of 80s sitcoms that are still watchable today. Most of them were utter shit.

R2 are we forgetting Golden Girls?

I loved Diane Chambers!

I thought Ted Danson was hot in those early years.

I said "small handful," r3. Of course GG is on that list. Not many others. Most 80s sitcoms were preachy family-oriented tripe like Growing Pains, Family Ties etc. Thankfully Roseanne came along and put a stake in that genre.

It’s considered the perfect pilot.

I woulda gotten it but they paired me with that teeny-tiny Julia Duffy, dammit!!! Why, oh why, didn't they let me test with Shelley...WHYYYY???

R8, you wouldn’t have had a chance. Sam being a former Baseball player would have confused the shit out of the average American audience.

He was still a football player when Dryer tested for it. They only made him a baseball player when they cast Danson.

Here's a fascinating article about the character Mrs Littlefield whose lines were all cut from the pilot. You can still spot her in the episode though. I think it was smart to excise her part. She was a wheelchair -bound crank who was obviously racist and xenophobic.

I was in college when CHEERS premiered and I watched it from day one. I had seen enough articles, probably in TV Guide and in different newspapers, about how this was the best new series of the season. I couldn't believe how poorly it did in the ratings because it was so smart, funny, well-acted and perfectly cast. Thank goodness it eventually caught on.

Diane and Lilith would have make a terrific spinoff.

Mrs. Littlefield : "The TODAY show is the pinkest show on television" Coach: "Comes through fine on my TV!"

Great article r11! Now I wanna hear what went wrong with Elaine Stritch!

[quote] Several places online it is noted that she was played by Elaine Stritch.

[quote]First off, that was not Elaine Stritch. We tried to use Ms. Stritch in an episode seven or eight years and let’s just say it was not a good match.”

I'd guess it was a matter that Elaine Stritch always comes off as extremely abrasive. Cheers just wasn't that kind of humor.

I fast forward through her 30 Rock scenes.

Didn’t it follow Gimme a Break in its first season?

Cheers followed Fame and preceded Taxi.

The competition was Simon and Simon , and Too Close for Comfort.

the episode where Diane is in the Miss Boston Barmaid contest is excellent

BERMUDA!!!!!!

The one with Coach's daughter in season one so beautifully played and written.

Cliff: Carla made love to a PhD from MIT? Coach: Hey look you guys, if you can't say it in front of me don't say it at all.

It felt refreshingly adult. I loved comedies without kids or teens in the cast.

Those are the best r22. Adult comedies for adult viewers.

I know she wasn’t popular with the cast, but Shelley Long has always made me laugh. She’s a genius.

For the record, Elaine Strich was fired after the second day of rehearsal for being unprofessional and an asshole.

^is that you Rhea??

I watched the first several seasons recently, and came to appreciate all that Shelley Long brought to the show.

She gives a nuanced portrayal that brings warmth to the show.

I haven't watched the Kirstie Alley shows in years, but the rest holds up well.

R25 Tell me more, tell me more!

I love Woody, but boy did Coach's death break my heart.

He was brilliant at being dim.

What was Shelley Long like r25? I've always liked her.

I would love it if one of the people who was there could describe how Season 3 played out, and how they managed to make it all work. There were so many things going on at the same time, and somehow they pulled off a complicated story arc that made it all the way to the end. *Nick Colasanto (Coach) was ill and he died in the middle of the season. *Shelley Long was pregnant, so in addition to having her always sitting behind the bar to hide her pregnancy, they eventually had Diane go off to Europe with her fiance Frasier Crane, and Sam and Diane would speak over the phone. *Diane's departure was filmed months before it aired, in anticipation of the story arc playing out and so the pregnancy would not show. Nick Colasanto was alive for the filming of this episode which aired later in the season ... so there are some episodes where Coach has disappeared "visiting relatives," and then he comes back for the one where Diane leaves, then he goes back to being out of town for the rest of the season.

I cannot imagine what it must have been like to be a writer, producer, or director on the show during this season, having to make all these plans and decisions to keep your show afloat.

Cheers oral history.

I watched the first season last year before it left Netflix. It has aged pretty well - although certain lines -- "sleep with me or your are fired" do stand out a bit.

I loved Coach when I originally watched the series, but he did not do as much for me this time around, except for the episode with his daughter and when he was dating someone not as interested in him. A lot of his lines seemed a bit more stale now.

Also, except for serving as a good foil for Diane, I did not find Carla that funny this time around either. Maybe how mean-spirited her character was by the end of the series shaded how I viewed her.

It was nice to see Cliff not quite as buffoonish. Actually most of the cast, including Sam and Diane seemed more well rounded.

Long and Danson did have good chemistry together.

You can never go wrong with Andy Andy.

I do think the Diane years were better, but the story had kind of run its course by the fifth season. The Kirstie Alley switch probably did help the series have a few more years of life, and had a few good seasons with her (although the last couple seasons should not have happened).

Of the Rebecca seasons the last two seasons of the show are my favorites. I couldn’t stand the Tom Skerritt character, nor the British guy. And Rebecca was funnier in those later seasons, IMO.

Loved Woody’s wedding- great two part episode that really showed how great the cast played off one another.

It’s funny how heterosexual Cheers was and how not heterosexual Frasier was.

R33, agree with entire post except for "can't go wrong with Andy Andy."

Preferred the Diane seasons to the Rebecca seasons.

Preferred Woody to Coach. My favorite seasons contain both Diane & Woody.

Yes, Carla came off as mean. But Diane was insufferable & had a bad effect on Sam. Also, Carla was supposed to be a single mom of 6 or more children.

Shelley Long was a cuntess

I loved this show, one of my favorites of all time, but I remember being turned off by the drunken behavior of the cast on the live party after the finale.

Danson's hair was a rug.

The Nanny G episode -- featuring Emma Thompson as Frasier's obsessed children's-entertainer ex -- remains an all-time fave of mine.

The Woody's-wedding episode, where the entire thing takes place in one location (the kitchen) is a very close second.

Loved it when it was on originally, but it didn't hold up for me when I started a re-watch a few years ago and I eventually gave up.

But what a great show it was in those horrible days of 3 networks showing mostly stupid, formulaic crap.

Bowling. Gary's Olde Towne Tavern. Cheers gang finds out Woody is a good bowler and sets up a challenge with GOTT. Woody chokes & freezes in the lane. Diane puts down the book she was reading to display her hidden bowling skills.

Melville's always seemed like a cool and cozy place to eat (upstairs from Cheers).

[quote] The Nanny G episode -- featuring Emma Thompson as Frasier's obsessed children's-entertainer ex -- remains an all-time fave of mine

For which I believe she won an Emmy. It's really a shame she didn't reprise the role for Frasier

Yes, they should've had her back on Frasier.

The guy who played the French rival to Woody was excellent. Anthony Cistaro. Perfect timing.

I knew Shelley Long years ago and concur with what everyone else ever said about her. Possibly the most pretentious, silly woman in Hollywood and that's saying a lot. Not a bad person. Impossible to deal with. I don't recall anyone who ever liked working with her.

I was like Diane Chambers. She was my fave. Carla and Diane were polar opposites. Their interactions were hilarious. Lilith was hilarious too!

My fave episode was the Thanksgiving episode at Carla’s house and birdzilla!

Diane Chambers showed up dressed as a fucking pilgrim! 🤣

Shelley Long, Kirstie Alley, Bebe Neuwirth and Rhea Perlman are all well-known as massively difficult and a pain in the ass to deal with. That set must've had its rough times.

Is Laurie Metcalf the poor man's Emma Thompson, r45?

Rhea Perlman was not their first choice for Carla. Janis Ian was who they wanted, but she didn't want to sign a contract that would take her away from her music for so long. As it turned out she didn't release an album during he show's run anyway.

She learned the truth about giving up a bird in the hand.

[quote] Shelley Long, Kirstie Alley, Bebe Neuwirth and Rhea Perlman are all well-known as massively difficult and a pain in the ass to deal with. That set must've had its rough times.

All 4 of them?

I liked Kirsty Alley as Rebecca, although at the time I had no idea she was a nutcase. They had brilliant writers on the show. Lots of former shows hold up. Cagney and Lacey, Cheers; even some 70s series are tons better than today's crap.

While I don't like the last couple of seasons as much in general, I agree Woody's wedding was one of the top episodes of the series.

I do think Carla was a necessary foil to Diane, I just found her tiresome by the end, which probably shades how I now see her in earlier episodes.

I can see why everyone would not like Andy Andy, but I still loved the lines - you hired a murderer to go out with me - and I need to go scrape the bugs off my teeth (largely because of Long's delivery).

I normally love Laurie Metcalf but her turn as Nanny G on Fraiser was a bit painful, and did we really need to see him in a diaper? I might need to rewatch the Emma Thompson episode. Of all of the great loves they tried to write for Fraiser on his own show, I really only bought him being crazy about or having chemistry with Lilith or Diane. Speaking of Fraiser vs. Cheers - did the mother played by Nancy Marchand threatening to kill Diane mesh with the character described on Fraiser? It is hard to imagine Martin having fond memories of her.

[quote] Speaking of Fraiser vs. Cheers - did the mother played by Nancy Marchand threatening to kill Diane mesh with the character described on Fraiser? It is hard to imagine Martin having fond memories of her.

No, not at all. But they did a lot of revision of history for Frasier.

Thanks. That makes sense - it is not like they had any idea of how popular Fraiser would become when they filmed that episode in Cheers season 3 and thought they would be setting up a spin-off down the road where they would be exploring his family on a weekly basis.

Loved Cheers but oddly could never get into Fraiser.

R58, I enjoyed both shows a lot, but they seemed very different to me. Cheers always wanted to be the funniest thing on TV (and It was for a while), but Frasier wanted to be funny AND clever.

Much prefer the Shelley Long years, she was perfect in the role, and it’s been great to see Ted Danson acknowledge her invaluable contribution to the show more recently, especially since she seemed to be odd (wo)man out among that rowdy cast.

And agreed, the Thanksgiving/“Birdzllla” episode is one of may all-time favorites. “Gobble Gobble!”

Completely winning debut!

I liked any episode involving Gary's Olde Towne Tavern.

🎼

Albania! Albania!

You border on the Adriatic!

your land is mostly mountainous!

and your chief export is chrome!

Cheers and Frasier had a number of parallel episodes with similar plot lines.

Bette Midler bad mouthed her on Oprah.

Odd answer she says no and then kind of backtracks.

I hate this show.

I always hated this show.

And I hate it even more now.

Not sure why - the cast went on to do a lot of things I liked - but they all seem so smarmy and full of shit here. I'd try to give it a watch after someone told me about some deathless episode - and I could never get past the first five minutes.

Ted Danson never comes to mind when I think of actors I enjoy, but reading this thread has made me realize that I’ve liked him very much in Cheers, Becker, and The Good Place.

I liked both Woody and Coach, both Diane and Rebecca. I’ve known so many Cliff Clavin types that I found that character hilarious.

However, Carla annoyed me. It made sense when I learned Rhea Perlman was married to Danny DeVito because she was the female version of him, abrasive and without nuance. And my least favorite character by far was Frasier, my least favorite episodes anything involving him or Lilith. I just never found him an interesting character and never watched the Frasier spin-off. The acting was fine, but those two characters just didn’t connect with me at all.

Fraser was plausible as the college professor type that Diana should have been attracted to (but instead she was attracted to dumb but hot Sam). It's plausible that the Fraser character would have fallen in love with Diane.

Long supposedly hated the Fraiser character and felt Diane belonged with Sam. The first year Grammar was on the show he said Long would constantly say I hate Fraiser and he would be like this is my job we are talking about. I guess it get better once they split Diane and Fraiser up and he was just another guy at the bar.

Maybe she really hated Kelsey and softened the blow by saying she didn't like the character he was playing. After all, Kelsey was doing tons of drugs at the time, in addition to being a far-right-winger.

Not that odd, R65, she is saying what we've heard in different variations a ton of times: Shelley Long is a great comedic actress, but also incredibly difficult to get along with.

The guy upthread who says that all the women were difficult on Cheers must have missed the tabloid articles about Danson being a psychopath. Also, I don't remember anyone ever saying Bebe Neuwirth was as bad as Kirstie Alley, just that she was maybe a little cold to others, not as friendly as expected.

Kelsey Grammar is a total mess and he seems bat shit crazy. I feel sorry for the women who had to work with him

I remember EW did a big cover package around its 200th episode with character sketches and commentary on each character. They said it ultimately took 3 characters to pick up the slack for what was missing post-Diane: Rebecca as a romantic foil for Sam, Fraiser for the easily punctured pomposity and Lilith for the tigress within an ice princess shtick. Diane’s character definitely contained multitudes and was so well written. Shelley rose to the task and had great chemistry with her co-stars. This is evident even in the pilot.

Shelley Long was great on Modern Family, too.

Grammer was drunk as a skunk for a lot of his Cheers and Frasier years and liked to offset the depressing effects of booze with a bump of cocaine eight to ten times an hour. He kept getting arrested up until the mid 1990s, even did jail time while playing Frasier on Cheers. He also got caught screwing the teenage babysitter.

People forget this but he was also the source of the Pamela Anderson-Tommy Lee sex tape. He claims he didn't release it but that it was stolen from him, but it was HIS tape. He admitted it in court.

It's kind of weird to remember all the shit Shelley Long got during these years, when Kelsey Grammer probably needed to be institutionalized for his behavior and yet he came out smelling like a rose.

[quote] People forget this but he was also the source of the Pamela Anderson-Tommy Lee sex tape. He claims he didn't release it but that it was stolen from him, but it was HIS tape. He admitted it in court.

I'm imagining Kelsey stroking one out looking at Tommy's big dangler....

It took me a while to warm up to Alley and her character---she was a little too bombastic for the rest of the cast and the contrast made her seem shrill and unfunny. I could see an addled Grammer and a feisty Perlman getting along with others better than Long who seemed very "actress-y".

Gary's Old Town Pub episodes always seemed like examples of where the writers had hit a wall and needed to produce something for a deadline.

The Sam-Diane thing dragged on way too long. That's the drawback of a 5 year contract, I guess. It would have made more sense to make her more of a recurring character during her last couple seasons. Lillith was priceless and a better foil for Frasier.

Malaprops don't wear well---try listening to someone like Norm Crosby whose whole act was a malaprops. What made Coach a watchable character was the obvious heart. A more cliched performance would have worn thin immediately.

The show was one of the few that allowed characters to grow without sucking the life out of the show.

I read somewhere that Shelley especially missed Nicholas (Coach) as he had been the closest to her while filming. It was harder for her the last two years she was on because of that.

And why did Perlman win all of those Emmys? Maybe one, but her performance was so one note. I never understood that, especially when Julia Duffy was nominated against her. I still don’t!

[quote]It's kind of weird to remember all the shit Shelley Long got during these years, when Kelsey Grammer probably needed to be institutionalized for his behavior and yet he came out smelling like a rose.

Shelley Long's character was beloved and then she up and left the show, that pissed off the audience. All of Grammer's shit happened in his private life, it wasn't interfering with the show.

I thought Shelley was an amazing actress in her five seasons of Cheers. In the movies she did during and around the time she left Cheers (though they weren’t all gems) , she brought that same level of skill and comedic timing.

But when she reappeared on Cheers on the series finale episode in the early 90s she seemed off to me. The same is true of that sitcom she did with Treat Williams...she just didn’t have that same spark she had in the 80s. I thought she was somewhat funny in the first Brady Bunch movie (the Florence Henderson wig certainly helped), but several of the other cast members nailed their impersonations much better than her.

I'm not sure what it says about me, but of all the characters on Cheers the one I could identify with the most was Diane Chambers (and then maybe Woody as a close second). So when people say that the character of Diane was annoying, then I think, "then I must be annoying."

The Cliff Clavin Jeopardy! episode is one of my favs.

Shelly Long & Woody Harrelson got along together at work on the set.

Rebecca Howell didn't become an amusing character until they wrote her as a neurotic, low self-esteem, social climber.

[quote] Shelly Long & Woody Harrelson got along together at work on the set.

I remember shortly after Shelley exited Cheers she did a live bit for Comic Relief (it was an old lady bit that felt outdated even then, but that’s beside the point). She went out into the audience and Woody was sitting there, and she started flirting with him - in character - as part of her act. I assumed he was in on the act and thought it was nice that someone from the cast still sort of liked her enough to work with her again.

She later went on to work with Kelsey again on Frasier and Ratzenberger on another sitcom, but this was very early after she left the show and it was still fresh.

[quote] People forget this but he was also the source of the Pamela Anderson-Tommy Lee sex tape. He claims he didn't release it but that it was stolen from him, but it was HIS tape. He admitted it in court.

R75, Wow, never knew this. How did that tape ever get into his hands. Grammer has bad energy, aside from this tape.

In1979 WCVB a local station in Boston produced a sit com called Park Street Under abut a subterranean bar in Boston There was an ex-Boston Red sox player as bartender A wise cracking short bar maid. A pompous tweedy professor. A classier blond beauty. An old dumb guy and a government worker customer Ran til 1981

Cheers premiered a year later.

The creators didn't feel they had enough clout to sue and were afraid they would get black balled in the business.

I think Perlman was the only one who hated Shelley to the point it came out on set.

In that Cheers oral history thing, Danson and a few others were honest that Shelley could be challenging on set, but it was never about being a diva, but more of a perfectionism.

two great Diane lines were to Sam: do you know the difference between you and a braying ass? Sam: WHAT? Diane: The braying ass would know.

another, they run into each other at a fancy restaurant; Sam says to Diane, you think I can't order her, he turns to a worker and says; we'll the patty due far gra...(phoentic) and rattles off some other stuff; guy walks away.

Diane: Sam, that was the water boy.

I wonder how Kirstie treated her when she came back for the show’s finale. Kirstie became close pals with Rhea Perlman so I could see both of them being a couple of mean girl bitches. Plus we now know Kirstie is a cunt.

I think somone mentioned previously how Danson admitted the show only made it because of Shelley Long.

I work as an entertainment reporter; there's something so kind about Danson. You can ask him anything and he'll take the question as intended (in the best way) and give you an answer.

He's always been gracious in my experience and he's right about Long. So good on him.

as for Long returning in finale, it helped with closure; I'm sure she was there but a week; Rhea and Kirstie knew the show was over. How cunty can anyone be in a week?

Another favorite episode: Diane sends in an audition tape of herself dancing ballet. The gang feels sorry for her and sends her back a letter telling her how talented she is. Diane believes she really is gifted in ballet.

The bok-bok-bok chicken impersonation was funny (Diane thinks the gang is playing a joke on her & that's her response to a real interviewer).

R92 that looks like Jude Law!

Kirstie was very attractive and a good sport, but Rebecca quickly became such an irritating character: neurotic, whiny, desperate, and viciously rude to Norm/Cliff. She belonged in a yuppie sitcom like Day by Day or Hearts Afire. Without Woody and the Lilith/Frasier dynamic I don’t think the post-Shelley years would be worth watching at all.

IMO, people watched the Kirstie Alley episodes due to momentum. Her character wasn't that bad. Yes, the whining was pathetic, even if it was part of the character. There were so many other characters to pull that series through, even if Rebecca was crappy.

One of my favorite episodes is the one where Sam gets a poem published and Diane realizes it is plagiarized and goes a little crazy trying to prove it. It turns out to be a forgotten poem that Diane wrote. And then she gets all excited when she realizes that she is published.

r67 - He was also a very good fit on CSI

r78 - Duffy should have won an Emmy for this, starting at 18:16

r80 - I can enjoy those movies for what they are. But her career suffered because she wasn't capable of playing anything other than a Diane variation. Coming out of the gate with Irreconcilable Differences, it was still fresh and she's absolutely wonderful in it.

r85- I assume the old lady was a character from her Second City days.

[quote]I remember shortly after Shelley exited Cheers she did a live bit for Comic Relief (it was an old lady bit that felt outdated even then, but that’s beside the point).

Speaking of outdated, Shelley Long did a bizarre 1940s-esque song and dance number on the Emmys in the late 80s. It was a real "WTF?" moment, even in the 80s this kind of thing was archaic.

I haven't seen that since it was first broadcast, r100. I can't even bring myself to watch it now because I remember being embarrassed for her.

Regarding Shelley’s bizarre Emmys gig, didn’t David Letterman poke fun of it on a regular basis on his show, or am I dreaming that? And didn’t he mention her when he presented at the Emmys last weekend?

Shelley’s attempt at dramatic acting was not a success.

The producers of awards shows like the Emmys and the Oscars back in those days were ancient old farts who thought the kind of archaic number Shelley did was still reflective of mainstream tastes. There were lots of dinosaur production numbers like that back in those days.

I found this on another message board:

[quote] I still remember the 1986 Emmys presented on NBC. David Letterman originally was just going to host the show by himself but, thanks to the intervention of the network suits, they then added Shelley Long to co-host as well as sing and dance. The most unintentionally hilarious moment was when Shelley Long sang a selection of songs, one of which was Ashford and Simpson’s “Solid”. Never had someone so white and bland ever failed so miserably trying to sound full of soulful rhythm. When Sandra Bernhard, who was a frequent guest on the NBC Letterman show, appeared following the Emmys, she made sure to rub the Shelley Long singing debacle in Dave’s face without mercy by imitating Shelley Long sounding like Margaret Dumont from the old Marx Brothers films. Dave was wincing painfully. Again, HI-LAR-RI-OUS!!!

Shelly Long had a nervous breakdown after her husband left her. She lost a ton of weight and her friends were worried she might commit suicide. I think that was in the 90s. she was on Politically incorrect and seemed like a nutcase but I loved her on cheers.

R100, even though that entire thing was a ridiculous waste of time and talent, I do have to say that Shelley looked great and I enjoyed it. I don't think Shelley was a good choice as a host; she is clearly "acting" her way through it. She can't relax and be natural when she is in front of an audience, she has to be "on."

Have you seen Shelley lately?

Maybe Shelley Long and Shelley Duvall could jump start their careers by playing wacky housemates. The show could be called The Two Batshit Crazy Ladies.

Liza could guest. "Well, Shelley," she'd shay. "I've sheen shome schtupid shit in my time, but thish takesh the shalami."

Ted looks better now in real life than he did in that Cheers episode where we got to see what might have been had Sam and Diane grown old together. I am not so sure about Shelley.

I think they'd just go with "The Two Shelleys", r109.

Yes, Rose. That was the point of my joke.

Que??!?

(Looks like they had the equivalent of both Diane and Rebecca at the same time, just based on this pic.)

No sorry. The blonde is an amalgamation of Diane/Rebecca and the brunette is the Carla character. They did have both Coach and Woody though!

Didn't it come down to three when they were going to replace Shelley, or was it just two? I remember Kirstie, Twiggy and...?

Shelley’s next project is a drama co-starring Luke Wilson, Soleil Moonfry and Lynda Carter???

R65 that made me dislike Bette Midler even more. Just sayin'

It was an unnecessary comment on Bette's part, but probably true, in part because I always thought Bette and Shelley were essentially playing only slightly more OTT versions of themselves in the film and they were bound to get on each other's nerves in real life.

oral history

another oral history

Pearlman seemed to be the only one to have a problem with her I think she was similar to Jane curtin on SNL that she didn’t party or hang out too much with the cast because she was content with going home to her family at the end of the day.

Shelley had a sweet reunion with the troop Beverly Hills cast last year and they all adored her.

According to the history at R120 Ted Danson is hung

It would've been funny if Diane was an ACTUAL intellectual instead of a psuedo-intellectual.

Where does it say that r122?

I've always felt Long was a target of misogyny when she left Cheers. I hate how people compare to someone like David Caruso because she left Cheers. Caruso left NYPD Blue after ONE year while Long fulfilled her contract on Cheers, remained with the show for five years and over 100 episodes. Granted, Cheers seemed to be a show that gained viewers with each season, whereas most shows run out of steam after five years.

Also, the idea that a woman would leave a television show to pursue a film career was laughable to some, except Long had starred in films before and during her run on Cheers (Losin' It, Night Shift, Irreconcilable Differences, The Money Pit).

She may not have had the dream film career she wanted but people still love watching Outrageous Fortune, Troop Beverly Hills and The Brady Bunch Movie.

When I rewatch Cheers, I'm surprised at how quickly Sam & Diane became a couple. Usually, the "can't stand each other" period drags out way longer. Then they broke up and, somehow, the relationship was still interesting and funny. Not sure what would have happened if the Diane character had existed for another season or two.

R124

**Alley: **Upstairs, everyone had dressing rooms, and there were bathrooms where you'd take showers before the show. So the big game became getting the door open, so that you could take pictures of nude people. I have the greatest picture of Ted. That was a big caper: There was one person [opening] the door with a butter knife and another person kicking the door in so I could get a photo. He's decapitated, but totally nude. And he's really well-endowed.

Henry Winkler called her difficult when they did Night Shift together, under the direction of Ron Howard

Penny Marshall also mentioned Long being difficult and having that reputation on the Paramount lit, where Happy Days, Laverne & Shirley, Taxi and Cheers were filmed

I remember a story that Penny said when Cheers was in its first season and L&S in its final season (82-83), Penny and Rhea would hang and get plastered with the guys from Cheers but Shelley Long never did

in fact Shelley was supposed to start in Jumping Jack Flash with Penny directing but she fell out due to "creative differences"

Long was just annoying and "actress-y".

I want a Woody!

So what if Long didn't want to hang out with her co-stars? She's not obligated to. She did her job and by all accounts, she did it well, she was an Emmy winner.

Rhea seems like a miserable person.

R131, exactly! Some of us don't wanna hang out with our co-stars! F*** xem@

Kudos to Shelley for participating in all of the reunions

They all came to Cheers just because of her.

Gimme a Break was much better! I never liked Ted Danson until Becker.

R128 Winkler I’ll pay attention too since he’s “the nicest guy in Hollywood” (and Howard is probably the second). Plus she wasn’t even famous yet. But given what went down on the Laverne & Shirley sept talk about the pot calling the kettle black,

Plus, who cares if she didn’t want to get wasted with cokehead Penny Marshall and troll Rhea Perlman (and I say that as someone who values that in a friend)? That means she’s “difficult?” Fuck them.

She seems someone who’s chronically misunderstood.

*set not sept ughhh

I don't blame anybody for not wanting to hang out with that nasty little troll Perlman.

If not for Shelley making the show successful in the first place who knows if any of these actors would have had the careers they had? That includes Kirstie.

Yeah, not everybody wants to sit around and get drunk with the same people they've worked with for the past ten hours. Rather go home.

Rhea married Danny DeVito, who is evidently a sweetheart, and although they've had some bumps in the relationship, they're evidently friends, so she can't be all bad. And I have liked her in other things.

As someone looks-challenged, shall we say, I found their paring up rather heartening.

Not to say that she didn't treat Shelley with undue rancor.

My real takeaway from this thread is what a sleaze Kelsey Grammer is. And I really liked him in "Fraizer".

What, no love for Norm?

[quote] what a sleaze Kelsey Grammer is.

Grammer is the first one to admit what a mess he was during those years. Some problems self-inflicted, some thrust on him.

R143 I think I’ve sat thru one full Frasier ep in my life but I do remember some seen where he was dressed as a baby and being spanked and I was like “he’s probably enjoying this a little too much.” Never cared for the show at all and he’s so unlikeable to me, I don’t get it.

I've tried to watch Frasier and found it unfunny as well.

Loved Cheers.

I liked the character of Frasier...when he was in smaller doses on Cheers. I wouldn’t have been interested in watching any of the other characters from Cheers in their own spin off either.

[quote] I liked the character of Frasier...when he was in smaller doses on Cheers. I wouldn’t have been interested in watching any of the other characters from Cheers in their own spin off either.

Yet his show was a success while [italic]The Tortellis[/italic] crashed and burned.

R125: Is it still misogyny if Rhea Perlman didn’t get along with her? I heard even worse things about Bebe Neuwirth.

I can't stand Grammer as a person, not just the sleaze but the whining about how Repugs like him don't get a chance in Hollywood, which is rich because he (and Tim Allen and others) got TONS of chances despite their personal lives being a mess, and made millions off of it and were on some of the biggest shows ever on television.

But I love Frasier. It's one of the few shows I can watch despite loathing the person behind it.

For some reason, Rhea Pearlman gets away with having been an asshole bully to Shelly Long, who was absolutely the reason that the show flourished in seasons 2-4.

I do not like Rhea Pearlman.

Frasier in a diaper was the writers poking at a rumor they'd heard about KG's adult baby play.

Shelley Long leaving Cheers certainly didn't open doors for her. I'm thinking for two reasons: She had a reputation as being difficult, and she left a financial success in the lurch. From what I heard and read, Long 'being difficult' was really just from a professional view point. Everybody seemed to appreciate her personally and professionally. People working with her became impatient with her analyzing every scene to death, and eventually became frustrated working with her. Especially the Cheers actor were a comparatively rowdy bunch, lacking work ethics especially at the end of the show's run. So I can see why her approach wasn't well received on the set.

Leaving a hit show on its height is not very much appreciated. When you do that, you are creating a huge financial risk for the studio. The show is likely to suffer in terms of ratings and then in terms of earnings. In this regard it doesn't matter if your contract was up or not. If you end up being a liability they cut you lose. You can have lots of flaws, but if you reliably help raking in the money, like Grammer, they tolerate and keep you.

Can you imagine the torture of being the director on that show? You try to contain Long with her professional antics, and on the other end of the spectrum you are dealing with a bunch of undisciplined partiers or drunks who don't know their lines or positions and don't care. Urgh...

Kelsey's Who Do You Think You Are episode shed some light on who he is. Let's just say that, much like Courtney Love's case, monsters aren't born, they're made.

It's an interesting show to study. In season six, after the departure of Shelley Long, you would have expected the show to falter in its quality. But season six is remarkably strong in one episode after another. Instead of forcing viewers to accept Kirstie Alley's undeveloped character right away, they shifted focus to supporting characters, letting each one move forward in a significant way (Carla marries Eddie Lebeck, Frasier and Lilith marry, Norm becomes a house painter, Cliff moves into a new apartment). All of these decisions let the supporting players shine, and provide new opportunities for comedy. The producers were genius in how they created a new show out of what they had to work with.

She did them a favor by leaving. The Sam-Diane relationship had more than run its course by then and the show needed to focus on other things. Once she started making movies, she should have switched to recurring character status with a full season salary. her appearances would have been more special and they could have transitioned away from Sam-Diane being central to the show.

Her best work on film wasn't exactly magical. She was good in an ensemble (which Cheers demonstrated) but she wasn't someone who could carry a film. If you look back on the early days of tv a lot of the stars were people who were mostly B-picture types who shone most in ensemble casts. They couldn't carry an A picture but they were fine in a half hour sitcom, esp. with a strong supporting cast. Lucy, Donna Reed, Robert Young, etc. Same principal with her. Ted Danson really didn't have a film career and was best in an ensemble. He was annoying in Becker--yeah, the main character was supposed to be unsympathetic, but he wasn't the best fit for that.

I was surprised that Long had been at Second City. She doesn't seem to have an improvisational bone in her body.

"People forget this but he was also the source of the Pamela Anderson-Tommy Lee sex tape. He claims he didn't release it but that it was stolen from him, but it was HIS tape. He admitted it in court. "

R75 I NEVER KNEW THAT!

r155 Kind of fitting that a person who has an opinion like yours makes such a big mistake like 'principal', and the auto-correct world of today hides grammatical, orthographic, language et al mistakes quite a bit. E.g. thespians tend to work much more in television than in the movies. Of course a movie star is something different than being a good actor, but insinuating that she is a bad actress for a leading lady and straight woman roles is pretty ridiculous, and of course she is a good actress in general. A lot of movie stars weren't really actors at all, and e.g. acting in front of a live audience is much more nervous, acting, professional, demanding, artistic, education-based, albeit also less sensitive, than without one.

R157, what took you so long? 156 posts without needless drama, just folks chatting about what they like. I'm sorry but I'm afraid I have to block you.

Interesting story about how Rhea got Jay Thomas’ character, Eddie (her hockey player husband), killed off “Cheers”.

Well, at least his demise was funny: Eddie got run over by a zamboni.

r152 - I don't think they were having to deal with the other end of the spectrum to that extent. At the end of the day, they had to know their lines and hit their marks. They just weren't treating/analyzing the scripts like they were Chekhov.

The Carla-Eddie episodes were always a bore, so I wasn’t disappointed when his character was killed off.

r157 = European Diane Chambers

I googled Kelsey Grammer and Pamela Tommy sex tape and this is what came up:

[quote] Grammer sued Internet Entertainment Group when he suspected that his former girlfriend Cerlette Lamme tried to sell a videotape of herself having sex with the actor. IEG is infamous for the Pamela Anderson and Tommy Lee sex tape. Grammer sued IEG while under the mistaken impression that it had purchased the tape, but IEG owner Seth Warshavsky said that Grammer dropped the suit "like a red-hot crack pipe" when he realized his error. Reports persist that Grammer bought a tape (which may or may not exist) from a former lover for $1 million. While we don't know if those reports are correct (Lamme in particular claims no tape ever existed), a 2006 interview with Maxim has Grammer urging celebrities not to record any sex tapes. It is entirely possible that Grammer had forgotten exactly which girlfriend recorded what.

Pretty much what I'd expect from a dame named...Cerlette Lamme.

R164 Grammer's women all have names like that: Cerlette Lamme, Camille Donatacci, Leigh-Anne Csuhany, etc.

That must have been pretty bad sex if he paid that much money for the tape. He's gross!

Here's Kelsey with Camille. He divorced her and went in the opposite direction. His current wife looks like a nanny.

To add to R163, this from the Independent UK, which we can't link here but which said:

[quote]Grammer admitting in court papers that he was the source of a notorious Tommy Lee-Pamela Anderson sex video, but alleging that it was stolen from him and never intended for public airing

I recall the series finale and the big buildup for it complete with a Bob Costas hosted "pre-game" show with some of the cast members who were obviously drunk. Due to the overhype I found the finale disappointing. After that, the show's lustre faded for me.

Well, [italic]SMELL{/italic] Miss R169!

Smell her![/italic]

I remember it was really exciting to see Kirstie and Shelley share scenes together in the finale because so much had been built up about Rebecca v Diane through the years... in the press, on the show itself. It was almost electric. I’m sure Ted Danson got a kick out of it, particularly the scene in the restaurant where Sam asks Rebecca to pretend to be his wife. Kirstie stole the scene right out from everyone.

She did! I am generally Team Diane as far as comparing their seasons but Kirstie really made something of that character and was hilarious in that scene.

Do his other wives look like burned out porn whores, with fake tits?

How long would NBC have stuck with this show if it hadn't been for [italic]The Cosby Show[/italic]?

I think it partially survived because the first couple of low rated seasons were pre-Cosby and NBC was struggling. It had good reviews, so they kept it around.

If the network would have already Cosby as a hit when Cheers premiered, they might not have been as patient with it (although if Cosby existed and was drawing in viewers on Thursday nights when Cheers premiered, season 1 might have had better ratings).

R176 Cos helped but by 1989, Cheers was getting higher ratings than the Cosby Show and Cosby ended in 1992 at #35 in the ratings, Cheers ended a year later at #4 in the ratings and it's season finale as the worst watched show of the 92-93 TV season

Cheers won a bunch of Emmys its first, very low-rated season. Numbers went up significantly after its big Emmy victory as new viewers tuned in, then in its third season, Cosby premiered and that whole block of programming on Thursday night became a smash.

[italic]Fame[/italic] was the show on at 8 when [italic]Cheers[/italic] began.

This promo didn't exactly make people want to watch it.

Kirstie is nuts in real life but she was a lot of fun on Cheers. Looking back, she was in a precarious position, joining a successful show which was already five seasons in and having to mesh with a cast who have already bonded and worked together for awhile. But she fit in seamlessly.

Kirstie sucks. Period.

And I sucked the BIG ONE!!!

Imagine if they'd done a Cosby Show/Cheers crossover episode and Bill Cosby was the bartender.

We hate(d) Kirstie.

I loved the first 5 seasons of Cheers, and was very hopeful after watching the first episode of season 6, which introduced Kirstie's Rebecca and completely reset the tone of the show. I thought Alley was surprisingly funny, and had great chemistry with Ted Danson.

But after that one episode, the show completely fell apart for me. The actors were fine, but they brought in a whole new writing crew. The show went from sophisticated comedy to sophomoric. Lots of inane pratfalls, mugging, and jokes that were dirty without being clever.

I tuned in again a couple years later and thought it improved somewhat, and Bebe Neuwirth, now a regular, was a strong addition. I also loved that nasty old man from the restaurant upstairs that Carla was secretly having an affair with. He became my favorite character.

But it was never quite as good as the first 5 years.

I loved Rebecca's obsession with Robin (Colchord?); she turned to Sam as a buddy to help her.

Robin at one point pitted Rebecca against another woman; he gives her an expensive bracelet; to his face, she scoffs at it; and then she turns to Sam and mouths IT"S GORGEOUS! Great dichotomy.

She gives it back to him; he tells her that gesture puts her ahead of the other woman; she scoffs: "Did you hear that Sam?" and panting privately to Sam I"M WINNING!!

Sam tells her she's in danger of losing something very important (her selfworth); Rebecca: "Sam, you're right. Robin, I WILL take that bracelet!"

Hilarious and shows how ridiculous we can be for what we think is love.

The obsession with Robin was annoying to me, although it helped establish the character and ultimately brought in another character. Thankfully, they dropped that plotline.

[quote] But after that one episode, the show completely fell apart for me. The actors were fine, but they brought in a whole new writing crew. The show went from sophisticated comedy to sophomoric. Lots of inane pratfalls, mugging, and jokes that were dirty without being clever.

Were those the same writers who later headed up [italic]Frasier[/italic]?

Oh boy, am I glad they cut those parts about Mrs. Littlefield out of the pilot. What a bitch. She would’ve ruined the show and made it a flop. She feels like a one-dimensional reject from a Norman Lear show. Even Archie Bunker had been pretty toned down by that point.

1985 was when Cosby went to #1 and Cheers and Family Ties broke out in the ratings

It spelled the comeback of the sitcom and the end of the dominance of the primetime soap opera, which ruled the first half of the 80s

In the 1984-1985 season, all 4 nighttime soaps ranked in the top 10 ratings (Dynasty, Dallas, Knots Landing and Falcon Crest)

By the 1986-1987 season, NONE of those shows were in the top 10 ratings

I remember those days, R191. It was crazy how fast that happened.

NBC didn't really need primetime soaps because they had [italic]Hill Street Blues, St. Elsewhere[/italic] and [italic]LA Law[/italic].

the only time KNOTS was NO. 1 was when Val found her twins.

Prime time soaps 78 to 86 were great.

R194 I binged watched all 14 seasons of Knots Landing a few years back and it was so we'll done and even "smart," for a soap, and the acting was phenomenal too

It was more about the emotions and realism that campy flashy drama like Dynasty

Also the first 4 seasons are mostly self contained episodes with some serialized elements, it doesn't become a full soap until season 5, but it's a GOOD soap, it doesn't dumb down the characters and stays character driven

Cheers is like that with sitcoms, both Knots and Cheers are the best examples on how to do primetime soaps and sitcoms smart and intelligent

I completely agree about Knots Landing being best in class among the 80s prime time soaps. It was also that rare long running show whose best years were mid to later in the run. I would say seasons 4-10 are the absolute best. (When Donna Mills left, it wasn’t as compelling) I am dying for a steamer to acquire Knots. I know music rights have always been prohibitive because of Lisa Hartman singing some pop hits which is such a sucky reason to be deprived of this show as it was so much bigger and better than that!

I think they only released the first two seasons of Knots on DVD, which sucks because the show wasn't that good then. It got a lot better as it went on, at least until that sassy redhead died. What was her name again?

[quote] I binged watched all 14 seasons of Knots Landing a few years back

This is so unbelievably sad.

R197 the first two seasons have a 70s After school Special feel to them, especially when an episode focused on the teenage Fairgate kids

Lots of moral lessons and wrapped up by the end of the episode

I thought they still had a couple of good years left after that, R197.

Ahem... can we go back to Cheers please?

Cheers in Boston - another Covid casualty

Backseat Becky

This thread started on September 23, 2020. Now here we are not more than two weeks later. Over the weekend, while channel surfing, I see that the show Cheers is being broadcast in reruns on the Decades channel every night starting today.

So I would like to thank the Decades marketing department (disguised as the OP) for getting us started thinking and talking about Cheers just in time to watch. We are all like mindless robots programmed to consume.

I loved this show..I cried when it ended. Kirstie Allie was funny as hell in this.

r204, the full series is on peacock

I never cared for kirstie alley. She always sounded like she has been on a bender the night before. Looked it too.

^^had been

[quote]I loved this show..I cried when it ended.

MARY!

can we discuss how fabulous Diane's wardrobe was through the seasons?

I was in high school when Cheers ended and the teachers talked endlessly about it.