How famous was the gay actor, Roddy McDowall ?

He was in Planet of the Apes.

Roddy had a long, long film and TV career.

He was one of the most beloved people in Hollywood. Did anyone every have anything bad to say about him?

He threw some great parties too.

He knew all the secrets.

Seems so long ago.

He wasn't movie star famous like the people in your list, OP. He was more on the level of a character actor. But he was very well-liked among the Hollywood crowd as R3 indicated.

Frank Langella wrote a very entertaining book about famous deceased actors/celebs he's known.

The chapter on McDowall is pretty brutal (and sounds pretty plausible). McDowall sustained his long "acting" career less through talent than through with his social connections and kissing a lot of ass. He was a famous celeb first and foremost--the acting was always secondary.

He was in Bedknobs and Broomsticks as well.

Did he have any known boyfriends?

[quote]Even Doris Day, Fred Astaire, Burt Lancaster, Robert Mitchum and Ginger Rogers didn't get it.

I think if you got it from Roddy you would most definitely know it.

There's a nice little thread about Fright Night on DL right now. He was great in that movie.

Was he a bottom?

He was hung like a TRIPOD!

Allegedly.

He lucked out by dying in 1998, a year when no one bigger died. Frank Sinatra was the only rival for the last spot, and he wasn’t that well-liked. Other than Sinatra, the only other names were people like Roy Rogers, John Derek and Lloyd Bridges.

Roddy McDowall was a huge child star who successfully transitioned to character roles in his adult years. As others have pointed out, he was extremely popular with his peers. That's because he knew everybody's secrets -and what it more, he kept them! Not many in Hollywood you could actually trust. Yes, that meant in his later years he could be assured of a guest spot every season on just about every TV show, as well as character roles in films.

He was child actor who turned into joke actor.

He appeared in lots of B movies and trailed on Liz's coat-tails.

I know nothing about his penis but his nose was similar to Johnny's—

His home movies on Youtube are a very enjoyable rabbit hole to explore. You'll see just how widely connected he really was. We've posted these links on other threads.

Those movies are annoyingly silent.

Some clever dick should subtitle them. Or those talented Punchy Players need to fabricate some dialogue

R17, I like to listen to Satie's Gymnopedies when I watch those films (if I'm in a mournful mood).

R13, Sinatra was a much bigger star than Roddy, and so was Roy Rogers.

An actor can't have much self-respect if they appear in a monkey suit. Richard Burton wouldn't play a monkey.

He was in the second or third tier of famous, mostly because of his longevity. He didn't have enormous range, but he reliably played the (gay) best friend, the stolid third rung character and the villian who initially seems nice which made him easy to cast as a guest star on episodic tv. He was not much for comedy which kept him off of sitcoms but he was perfect for "Murder She Wrote" and shows of that ilk and he had played in less geriatric shows when he was younger. Many of his friends were people who had been fellow juvenile actors who had found niches as adults, which probably helped him enormously and I'm guessing he was a friend to every hag in Hollywood, which probably helped, too.

He did a Disney film and a nudie picture the same year.

Thank you r10! 👍🙂

In The Snoop Sisters series there is a fist fight between Roddy McDowall and Vincent Price.

He was competent in Disney movies. And being likeable beats the hell out of the PITAs we usually discuss here. I suspect that's why Ward Bond had such a long career.

Doris Day should have given a much more prominent spot in the most recent Academy Memorial. She should have been saved for last (save the best for last!) but they squeezed her in during an almost noticeable moment. What jerks. She was beloved and top box office and deserved much better than that!

R21, I once enjoyed a ”show of that ilk.”

Dead

Roddy McDowall knew everyone that mattered in Hollywood; but also he oozed cool creamy English charm and knew how to keep his mouth shut. In short Mr. McDowall was the best girlfriend a guy or girl could have, and was amply rewarded for his discretion.

Fact that two arch enemies (at the time anyway) the two former Mrs. Richard Burtons (Elizabeth Taylor and Sybil Christopher) were at Roddy McDowall's bedside as he lay dying (each holding one of his hands), says much about how people loved the guy.

Normally bodies aren't even cold before dirt about this or that Hollywood actors comes gushing out; but Roddy McDowall had been gone for decades and not a peep. No former rent boys with an ax to grind. No (allegedly) former lovers demanding a cut of estate, no tittle-tattle about scandalous private life... Roddy McDowell took his secrets to the grave, and his memoirs remain locked up tight, without so much as a whiff of leak.

There is an old A&E biography on Roddy McDowall called "friend to Hollywood" or some such. Worth a watch if can find it free online or something. People who only knew Roddy McDowall from various television guest appearances or maybe films like Fright Night had no idea of Mr. McDowall's extensive list of friends that pretty much was Who's Who of old Hollywood.

OP How famous are the stars in heaven?

He had a really big dick.

[quote]He knew all the secrets.

And he took them with him, R4.

I saw him play Scrooge in A Christmas Carol at the theater at Madison Square Garden.

Roddy was at the center of several post-production battles over editing in the 1960s and 1970s, [italic]Cleopatra, The Greatest Story Ever Told[/italic] and [italic]Bedknobs and Broomsticks[/italic] being the most notable ones. He also directed a film called [italic]Tam-Lin[/italic] that faced the same fate.

Of course where there is a talk of gays and Hollywood Scotty Bowers always pops up.

"A lot of variations on that explanation applied to many, many people. Tennessee Williams, for instance, is not mentioned in the film. He’s pictured briefly. Liberace is not mentioned. Deborah Kerr is not in the film. There were lots of experiences with Roddy McDowall. There was one moment when we were in Scotty’s very crowded home and he opened the freezer and pulled out a box of poppers from possibly the 1960s. He said, “These were Roddy McDowall’s poppers. I used to go pick them up for him and I never gave him these.” This is truly a historic item in the history of homosexuality."

Broadway says....

Even under those circumstances, he was still substantially less sleazy than the average Hollywood heterosexual.

r7 Frank Langella's book made me wonder if he is a straight man. He came across as a bitter old queen bitching and name dropping. Somehow he managed to befriend Bunny Mellon. Jackie Onassis was clearly weary of him and yet he considered her a friend, there was no friendship, he met her through Mellon. The fact that he even devotes separate chapters to two notoriously private women says to me he wasn't their friend.

R19

So was Gene Autry, Robert Young and maybe a few others who died in 1998; but Roddy got most votes I presume.

[quote]Frank Langella's book made me wonder if he is a straight man.

The general consensus on DL has been that he is not, R39.

r29 Will his memoirs ever be released?

Roddy starred in a memorable episode of "Columbo".

Some nudes

R43

Per terms of Roddy McDowall's final will and testement his papers won't be released until 100 years after his death.

Do the sums; RMD died in 1998 and it's now only 2020.....

My guess is Mr. McDowall wanted to ensure anyone remotely mentioned or even somewhat known in his papers will be long dead. This also includes likely anyone who would care as well.

Anyone born within say past several years might make it to 2098, but everyone on DL reading this thread now will long be cold in their graves by then.

Being as above may it is highly likely one or more persons has seen those McDowall papers. Attorney or others at law firm or practice that handled Mr. McDowall's estate/affairs. A nosy secretary or others in said offices; maybe even personal secretary or assistant of Mr. McDowall... None of these people could obviously speak about what they've read without serious consequences. But still.....

When papers are "sealed" in law offices or courts it only means usually the file is banded or in someway identified as such. This or in cases where only part of a file is sealed, it is included with overall case, but that particular bit is stamped "sealed". Maybe such files are kept alone in a locked file cabinet or safe, or just stored with others again merely differentiated by something marking contents "sealed".

He was so hung, I was envious.

R20

Like many former products of studio system Roddy McDowall struggled to find work when it ended and vast changes swept through Hollywood.

That role in Planet of the Apes put Mr. McDowall back on the map far as getting film work was concerned. Up until Cornelius role came along good part of RMD's work in 1960's was television.

We've had this discussion many times before on DL; Roddy McDowall certainly wasn't the only former studio system actor scrouging around for work in 1960's and 1970's. Nearly all of them found whatever work they could on television if films weren't calling. A gig is a gig, and when you've got bills to pay...

I liked Roddy because he didn't try to hide his sexuality with a lavender marriage, which was the standard rule for gay actors in Hollywood. Still is for many. He wasn't out but he lived his life as open as a gay man could in the midcentury.

So Roddy and Tab Hunter were lovers?

He was cute when he was young but by 40 his looks hit the wall.

Keep coming back to this because find it fascinating.

Either as young gay man or certainly when older Roddy McDowall was not sitting around at home alone at night with a jar of lubricant of choice. He had to have dated or at least had sex with someone. Yet not a single boy toy, or perhaps one of those handsome young (would be actors) who were always at various parties or otherwise involved in the gay circle of Hollywood as said a thing.

We know about Kerwin Mattews, Joel Crothers, Raymond Navarro, and of course Rock Hudson, Tab Hunter, Tony Perkins.... So you really have to wonder what was it about Roddy McDowall that made people love him so that they never would betray.

Thank you r45

R43

Only thing "memorable" about that episode of Columbo his how Roddy McDowall filled out those polyester double knit trousers.

That the censors and or sponsors let it go still astounds. It was like he had a salami stuffed down his trousers.

That was huge issue with double knit pants of 1970's; everyone from Tony Manero on down had to figure out what to do with their tackle. Sometimes you just didn't know where to look....

For you girls that don't want to scroll down through images above:

Regarding his placement on the Oscars' In Memoriam segment - he did play the protagonist in one the most popular best picture winners ever, How Green was My Valley. So one might say that from the Academy's pov, he was more prominent than the likes of Rogers or Bridges.

He was a child actor. So he pretty much grew up in Hollywood, like his pal Elizabeth Taylor.

He was also a talented photographer. He took the photo used for the cover of Barbra Streisand's third album. It's of her performing on the Judy Garland Show in 1963.

R48

Studios only forced, pushed or whatever gay actors they were grooming for romantic, action or some other lead roles into lavender marriages. Rock Hudson, Tab Hunter, Tony Perkins, Van Johnson, and some others come to mind including Tammy Cruise (allegedly).

There was never any danger of Roddy McDowall becoming a leading man. He went from an adorable (if not slightly fey) little boy then youth (How Green Was My Valley, Lassie Come Home.... As an adult he got mostly character roles both on television or film, and as noted above the possibly gay boyfriend of heroine.

Roddy McDowall getting married either by his own free will or as a career advancement tool wouldn't have accomplished much. Besides what woman is going to sit around while every other in Hollywood is telling Roddy their secrets, and he doesn't share that dirt? Yeah Roddy was well endowed, but if he wasn't into women what was the good of that?

R17 not those talent free Punchy Players....they are dreadful.

What secrets in his memoirs are so devastating and controversial to present day life that they have to be kept secret for 100 years? The sexuality of long dead movie stars? Who cares. I think he was overestimating his importance there, not like he knew who killed Kennedy

R51

Whatever the reasons what's done is done. Those were terms of Mr. McDowall's estate and there isn't anyone who can override.

IIRC as with most everything else Oscar wise, it is peers in each category who select/vote on memoriam.

Roddy McDowell was at time of his death among few actors remaining who successfully bridged the world from old studio system days to modern Hollywood.

Maybe because he never married and had children, RMD threw himself into not only his work, but profession.

"Although never nominated for an Academy Award himself, Roddy McDowall was chairman of the Actors Branch of the Board of Governors for five terms (ten years) and at the time of his death was President of the Academy Foundation where he worked tirelessly on behalf of the Motion Picture Retirement Home where a rose garden was later named in his honor."

Those who are willing to roll-up their sleeves and do hard work on behalf of their craft usually (but now always) receive some sort of recognition.

Caroline Kennedy released her mothers' papers long before Jackie had stipulated, and I'm sure she had more important secrets than McDowall. But somehow I think Caroline heavily edited them before releasing them, and that the most damning secrets were either destroyed or buried deep within the archives in the Kennedy library never to see the light of day.

I remember him from the Poseidon Adventure. I think his character died.

I always thought he was adorable. Not sexy, but super cute. He would have made an excellent Bilbo Baggins in the Hobbit movies - and Martin Freeman has a similar appeal (for me anyway). He appears not to have been an asshole, which is probably why so many people liked him as well as they did. I don;t know that he had much range per se, but he always brought a certain charm to his roles. And he kept that boyishness into his later years.

Aren't his memoirs to be published eventually?

Roddy was an excellent social networker by being an absolutely discreet confidante who kept people's secret.

Even to this day people underestimate how important having such a person in your life can be. You know, someone you can be your true self (whatever that may be), showing your vulnerable side.

In a way Roddy was a real life Datalounge.

He died at 70 life long cigarette smoker. Lung cancer which is a painful death.

I wish I could find the photo but there was a candid of him from Planet of the Apes in full make up smoking. Ludicrous.

Doris has plenty of threads of her own, get that dead virgin bitch out of here.

As for Roddy, he did a lot of voice work in his later years--his distinctive mellifluous voice was made for that sort of thing. If he'd lived longer, he really would have cashed-in big time.

Roddy also did some theatre, appearing in on Broadway with Richard Burton and Julie Andrews in Camelot in 1961.

R1 Yes, indeed he did. I had almost forgotten about that, and he played Mordred. My father left me his enormous collection of LPs and the original Broadway cast of Camelot is one of them. Roddy is singing The Seven Deadly Virtues. I always rather liked that song. Roddy is no Caruso, but then again, he didn't have to be.

I remember getting books of his photographs from the library -- Double Exposure and Double Exposure, Take Two. Real talent with a camera and his subjects ran the gamut of fame. You can tell that they felt comfortable posing for him.

Roddy sings!

Well done, R74.

Does Whoopi ever talk about Frank Langella?

[quote] We know about Kerwin Mattews, Joel Crothers, Raymond Navarro, and of course Rock Hudson, Tab Hunter, Tony Perkins

Who the hell is Joel Crothers?

Joel had total gay face in that 1970s way.

Sorry, thought it included a pic on the Wikipedia page.

A friend of mine used to see Roddy and Roddy left him quite well set up in his will. Both he and Roddy were very, very well hung. I had no idea that my friend had been seeing Roddy for quite a few years until after his death and my friend told me of the good fortune Roddy had left to him.

[quote]Who the hell is Joel Crothers?

R77, the visual Joel Crothers:

Tony Award®

Best Featured Actor In A Play

1960 | Winner  | The Fighting Cock

Performer: Roddy McDowall.

Joel Crothers was so handsome.

“Dead of Winter” was a great but little-known film he did in the ‘80s.

Anybody care to speculate what secrets or confidences about other celebrities that Roddy took to his grave with him?

Like the names and ages of all the bimbos Darryl F. Zanuck fucked?

That's a good suggestion for starters r86!!

Maybe what secrets that would shock and titilate do we think he knew about his good friends Elizabeth Taylor and Lauren Bacall?

Do we know if he was friends with Doris Day, Joan Crawford, Bette Davis, Barbara Stanwyck, Olivia De Havilland, Joan Collins , Judy Garland , Marilyn Monroe or Lana Turner?

R64

We went through this before on DL regarding Roddy McDowall's papers; there isn't anyone with authority (legal next of kin) who can make a decision to override RMC final wishes. Don't know if Ms. Caroline Kennedy was also executor of her mother's estate, but IIRC that person may have rights even if not next of kin. If John Kennedy Jr. didn't object to his sister's actions, then there you are.

Mainly there isn't any huge outcry aside from perhaps here on DL to know what's in Mr. McDowall's papers. So don't see any sort of major movement to override last wishes of deceased.

If you are so interested hire a private detective or someone to get those papers, or at least make copies.

Who will even remember to ask for Roddy’s memoirs to be revealed after 100 years? Some of those stars will have been dead in 2098 as long as John Wilkes Booth has been dead in 2020.

He had offbeat good looks.

R90, he looks like Dick York.

Roddy was a huge fan of film and understood it's importance. Long before VHS and home video, he had a large collection of original prints of classic films that he would screen for his friends at lavish parties at his home. But some asshat blew the whistle and his home was raided (films are copyrighted) and all those prints were confiscated, devastating Roddy. That story makes me sad as he was only trying to keep those films alive in a time when there were no revival screenings or home video to see these great films.

There is something to be said about coming out in this day and age, although it's still extremely dicey in Hollywood even now. Roddy was a child star and was slim, slightly fay and pretty. He would have gotten massive pressure to be straight or give the illusion of it. He didn't bow to pressure and lived his life as openly as was possible. That's why he had so many friends who understood his position and accepted him, like lifelong friend Liz Taylor. He was intelligent, talented, loyal and kind. He was beloved and it seems unfair to reduce him to his sexuality. Thank goodness there was a circle of artists like Liz and Co. who knew that and gave him friendship and respect. Roddy should be a beloved DL icon.

Ramon (not Raymond) Novarro, right, catches a ride with fellow Latin hunk Gilbert Roland.

[Quote] He would have gotten massive pressure to be straight or give the illusion of it.

I don't think that's true. He's comparable to a Joshua Rush type today.

Yeah they'll probably forget to open them because nobody will remember or care.

By the late 40s he was reduced to appearing in C-grade movies at Monogram.

But by the early 60s he was like Hollywood Royalty. A remarkable turn-around in "branding" in 10 years.

Let's hope he made peace with the Lord before it was too late.

R7, he was an old blowhard. McDowall was a charming child actor who made the transition successfully to adult actor. He was a character actor and being easy to work with rather than self-aggrandizing is a plus, particularly when casting in television productions that need to move along.

I wish he had done the film of Sergeants. Anybody know why he didn't when he was a huge success in the play and had a name?

Another of Roddy's musical performances was for a special recording of composer Marc Blitzstein discussing his theatre compositions. Roddy performs a scene/song from The Cradle Will Rock at 17:30 in the video link (audio only). Roddy McDowall is Dauber, Alvin Epstein is Yasha, and Jane Connell (Agnes Gooch in Mame) is Mrs Mister.

R90, he's very appealing to me, personally.

R91, I both do and don;t see the resemblance. Roddy was more delicately finished than York, although both are attractive.

When the Roddy memoirs are opened, no one will care—and no one will be around who will know if he's telling the truth. People lie in their memoirs, you know.

Who is going to open them and why would they? Somebody in 2098 who eagerly wants to know if Spencer Tracy and Peter Lawford were buggering Roddy at MGM in 1947?

[quote] Frank Sinatra was the only rival for the last spot, and he wasn't that well-liked.

Sinatra got an entire clip reel tribute put together by Martin Scorsese.

He knew everything about everyone and was famous for his discretion.

Of course they celebrated him in memoriam.

Obviously, with the shitting crowd in the business, he was unique.

[quote]He was child actor who turned into joke actor.

I'm not aware of anyone who ever knew, or hired Roddy McDowall who thought of him as a "joke actor". He was in many well known film and tv projects over a 50+ year career. That's not a joke.

"Frank Langella wrote a very entertaining book about famous deceased actors/celebs he's known."

I read some of it. It wasn't that "entertaining." He came across as a very unpleasant cunt. He rarely had a good thing to say about anybody he talked about in his book. And who is HE to pass judgement on anybody? His career didn't exactly set the world on fire. He was supposedly once the "boyfriend" of Whoopi Goldberg. Can you imagine the two of THEM coupling? Gag.

"Of course where there is a talk of gays and Hollywood Scotty Bowers always pops up."

Not really. Of course Scotty Bowers always flapped his mouth about how he knew everyone in Hollywood, fucked everyone in Hollywood, and procured homosex for everyone in Hollywood. But Scotty Bowers was 25 pounds of bullshit in a 10 pound bag.

R107 Plus he won a Tony (Featured Actor) for “The Fighting Cock” (ahem) in 1960. True, awards don’t guarantee quality, but a Tony for acting in a non-musical suggests he was not regarded as a joke by his peers.

A clip of the 1999 Academy Awards In Memoriam with Roddy McDowell.

One of Roddy's "boyfriends" was Montgomery Clift. I don't know when they stopped being lovers but Roddy remained his loyal friend right up to the end.

^^ One wonders what he and Princess Tinymeat did in the sack.

^^ The same things everyone else does, fuckwad.

Those say only Frank Sinatra rivalled Roddy McDowell for biggest American celebrity death of the year. What about golden era Hollywood star Alice Faye or Tammy Wynette?

It still feels like a gut punch when I see Phil Hartman, who is in that clip above. Just a huge fucking reminder that life isn’t fair.

I read somewhere that Caroline released the papers early as a bargaining chip to stop the publishing of unsavoury information about herself. A Cuomo was involved.

Why would any Cuomo want to take down Caroline?

[quote] It still feels like a gut punch when I see Phil Hartman, who is in that clip above. Just a huge fucking reminder that life isn’t fair.

If he had never done [italic]NewsRadio[/italic], then he would never have crossed paths with Andy Dick, who would never have given his wife drugs that drove her over the edge to kill both him and herself.

It's no coincidence [italic]The Simpsons[/italic] jumped the shark around the same time.

Roddy McDowall had a role in one of DL's favorite movies, Evil Under the Sun (1982).

He was famous.

𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐅𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐚𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐜 𝐉𝐨𝐮𝐫𝐧𝐞𝐲 (1977) was a promising sci-fi fantasy series, canceled after only ten episodes. When Roddy joined the cast in Episode 3, 'Beyond the Mountain,' there was a real risk of him sucking up all the attention, the same way Jonathan Harris had destroyed 'Lost in Space.' It couldn't be helped; he was simply that interesting.

He guest-starred on [italic]Buck Rogers in the 25th Century[/italic], but unfortunately not in the same episode Gary Coleman was in.

He was the voice of VINCENT in The Black Hole.

R104

Executors of Roddy McDowall's estate in 2098 will "release" his papers. In what form and or how will depend upon whatever is decided in accordance with guidance and or directions from late actor's final will and testament.

Papers of famous persons, corporations, etc.. end up usually with several main depositories; libraries, archives, private collections, state or local government archives, and of course federally connected institutions such as Library of Congress or Smithsonian Institution.

Since Mr. McDowall had no legal heirs (family), one presumes attorneys are handling his estate so things would devolve onto whoever from that person or partnership is successor to original.

Hopefully to avoid the sad and disgusting fate of Marilyn Monroe's estate Mr. McDowall did entrust things to attorneys and not a single private executor. The Strasberg family (first husband, then wife, then daughter....) ran roughshod over Marilyn Monroe's final wishes and in the process made themselves huge bundles of money.

He played a high class pump in Hollywood Wives

R7, he was Avery successful child actor who became a successful adult actor- rare. He was gay, and extremely well liked in Hollywood. He also had success on the stage by the way. I read Langella’s book. Talk about a name dropping closet case! It’s amusing but definitely bitchy (part of the fun of it.). Langella come across as a wannabe insider. roddy really was and he was discrete- like his great friend Elizabeth. Not Frank!

I recall reading around the time of his death that his memoirs were to be published 75 years after the date of his death. Something like this. I wish the executor of his estate would reconsider. THIS is the time for them

Someone is managing Roddy McDowall's estate, and cutting deals......

Again you girls with prurient or other interests need to find out who this is and ask why those papers are being stashed away for so long.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Waiting 100 years after his death, any individuals mentioned, their children and likely their grandchildren will all be gone. No descendants are going to care let alone sue for any embarrassing or inflammatory stories. This way it becomes a historical memoir rather than a relatively recent non-fiction.

Look, you guys keep giving out same replies; but here's and end to it; things are *NOT* left up to the executor of estate alone, but decedent's final wishes are given weight by legal system.

Far as one has been able to research Caroline Kennedy has not released her late mother's personal papers. Those related to Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy time as first lady (official documents) are another matter. Indeed the Kennedy family sued and won to prevent personal letters from JBKO to a priest from being sold at auction.

A period of 100 years is what Mr. McDowall stated as his final wishes, and that is what will be carried out when, unless or until person or persons can prove to satisfaction of court there is a compelling reason that overrides wishes of the dead.

^^^ or until cold ca$h buys leaks.

You can't have it both ways; OTOH some of you keep going on about how nothing of importance could be contained in Mr. McDowall's papers, now you're suggesting payment of bribes or whatever to get at them.

My guess is much of what is in those papers that would interest the prurient minds of DL likely is somewhat already known via other sources. Things like Merv Griffin tittle-tattle, and or of course ilk like Scotty Bowers.

Unless Roddy has some dirt about unsolved murders (gay or straight), and or that he fucked (or was fucked by) JFK, Robert Kennedy or someone previously so outside the realm of "is "X" gay?".... things will be as most have already stated; a big yawn.

Those hungry for dirt need to get up off their asses and head to local California probate court and see if Mr. McDowall's will is listed. If so much can be gleaned from reading including bequests, directions, etc....

Like many gay men then and now who die without legal next of kin (family and now spouse), there is a process for distributing estate that is going to involve a third party (executor) who is either assigned by state or designated by deceased. Since Roddy McDowall knew he was dying and indeed was discharged from hospital to "get his affairs in order" we can assume those final months were spent doing just that.

Yeah, in 2098 Roddy McDowall's long-suppressed memoir will have the slavering, rapt audience that a Donald Crisp memoir would have today. Its appeal will be strictly for academic historians and, of course, DataLoungers—the same type who pounce on any crumb of information on Olive Thomas or William Haines.

I always admired Roddy's work ethic. He appeared in good movies, schlock, sub-schlock, crap tv, good theater, bad theater--whatever. He didn't make any bones about it--or complain. Meanwhile, he was hobnobbing with the creme de la creme of Old Hollywood AND having lots of sex with gorgeous men. Sounds pretty good to me.

Generally deceased (for obvious reasons) cannot sue for slander or libel, this applies to estates as well. Living relatives of the dead can only bring such legal actions if their own reputations have been imputed. Old English Common Law did allow for legal action brought against "blackening name of the dead", but that long has gone by the boards.

Person or persons have seen Roddy McDowall's papers if nothing else those involved in process of drawing up, archiving, etc... If there was any dirt or scandal that would credit even minor interest, something would have been hinted at by now am sure. We live in an era where nothing is sacred and people will do anything for a buck. If private and intimate medical information regarding George Clooney or Farrah Fawcett can be exposed by nosy nurses, doctors or others on hospital staff, does anyone believe those employed by a law firm or whatever are always of a higher moral rectitude?

That Roddy McDowall was gay certainly wasn't a state secret. Who he had relationships or at least fucked/or got fucked by probably largely wouldn't come as a surprise to those who know Hollywood. So what else would there be in those papers? Dirt or whatever about "old Hollywood" people that largely is already out there in some form; or credits "who cares?".

My guess is known that Roddy McDowall was a true English gentleman, besides reputations of those he knew personally, he also took into consideration their children and maybe grandchildren.

If you watch RMD's home films plenty of Hollywood and Broadway people brought their children to his parties and other events. Those born in 1950's or 1960's would have only been in their 30's or 40's when Roddy died. Grandchildren and others born say in 1970's or 1990's up until Mr. McDowall's death of course would be far younger. Factor in average life expectancy of about 80 years and not releasing personal papers for 100 years pretty much nails anyone living at time of Mr. McDowall's death. The man's reputation as paragon of discretion remains intact even beyond the grave far as those who would be named are concerned.

R130, it has been said (and contested) so many time as to be meaningless, but God damn, Elizabeth Taylor was a beautiful woman.

Maggie Smith said there was an abundance of liquor at his parties and everyone who was anyone was there but the food wasn't so hot. And as the Woody Allen joke goes there wasn't much of it. So everyone got pretty smashed on empty stomachs. I assume this was intentional.

Booze is comparatively cheap, and easy to serve. Food OTOH requires purchasing and preparation of what could be vast quantities, especially if you do more than just nibbles.

Then of course if you do informal or family like parties guests invite their friends or whoever to tag along... so you end up with far more than planned (and not enough food to go around), or you've bought too much when many invited don't show up.

You can get around some of this by having things catered, but that can get expensive....

I don't blame Roddy McDowall, given number of mooches and hangers on in Hollywood always on scrounge for a free meal or drinks. Haha. Give em booze and maybe things on sticks.

R136

That was old Hollywood/studio system training showing. You showed up knowing your lines and marks ready to put in a days work. That is what you were being paid to do regardless of maybe the thing being a dog; you made best of things....

In interviews or other ways many young or up and coming actors spoke of working with "old school" studio system actors as more of them moved into doing television. Most said they often were in awe and learned quite a bit about their craft from those said actors, and the latter in turn were often happy to pass on what they knew.

He was in "That Darn Cat" (1965, with Haley Mills) and "The Cat from Outer Space" (1978, with Sandy Duncan). That's a lot of pussy.

He was a blouse?

Shut up, John Waters

Quit the bullshit. Roddy's memoirs are sure to be far juicier than evan Bowers' so yeah, we want to see them NOW.

Did he have Victor Mature?

Tyrone Power?

Roddy's conquests?

Cesar Romero undoubtedly.

And Paul Newman, James Dean, Sal Mineo, John Derek, Guy Madison, Rory Calhoun, Tab Hunter, Rock Hudson and George Nader. All were hot gays in 1950s Hollywood.

No Tony Perkins?

How do we, ahem, massage these papers from their legal prison. Enqueerering minds want to know.

^^^ That depends on where they are... Does anyone know?

Look up what agency or person is representing Roddy McDowall's estate and direct your queries to them R151

Late Mr. McDowall knew what he was doing apparently:

"Elizabeth Taylor wore red, the late Roddy McDowall’s favorite color, at the Nov. 15 party she threw at her L.A. home for about 100 of the actor’s closest friends. McDowall, who died on Oct. 3, specified that he did not want a public funeral or a formal memorial service but agreed to a private gathering. Taylor’s guests, who included Gregory Peck, Jack Lemmon, Anjelica Huston and Liam Neeson, were moved to tears with a version of “Amazing Grace” by a Scottish bagpiper and later shared funny stories about McDowall. Taylor was in good form. “She was very funny, very raucous and very loving when talking about Roddy,” said one guest. All of McDowall’s personal papers and photographs will be sealed for 100 years. The reason, he told singer Michael Feinstein, who also attended Taylor’s party, was that “in 100 years, it will no longer be gossip.”

Again it was things like this that showed not only was Roddy McDowall a class act, but also he truly cared for his craft and its history.

"The forgotten woman buried at Section 2W, Space 300 in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery—62 acres in the shadow of Paramount’s studio lot, offering eternal rest for celebrities from Jayne Mansfield to Johnny Ramone—has 302 acting credits on IMDb, and was once known prosaically as “the Girl of a Thousand Faces.” Yet somehow, her grave went unmarked from 1938 to 1991. Fifty-three years passed before actor and film-history buff Roddy McDowall sprang for a headstone that marked the departed’s singular place in cinematic history: “The First Movie Star.” Her name was Florence Lawrence."

How creepy it this image of Roddy McDowall and Janne Wyatt at Robert Young's funeral in September 1998. RMD would be dead himself just a few weeks later on 3 October 1998

One person who might be able to shed a light on things is actor and friend of Roddy McDowall a Dennis Osborne.

Mr. Osborne cared for RMD during his last weeks of life and seems to have been some sort of spokesman or something. The sister Virginia McDowall may have known things, but she died in 2006.

Speaking of Osbornes, I suspect Robert Osborne knew a lot of shit that followed him into the grave.

Mr. Osborne was very discreet.

I used to get Roddy McDowell mixed up with Orson Bean.

Why, R158? They were nothing alike, apart from a shared participation as voice talent in the Rankin-Bass adaption of Tolkien. Had Bean not been run over by a car jaywalking in February this year, he'd have probably become a QAnon.

There’s a resemblance

[quote]Did he have Victor Mature?

Nope. Not Victor Buono either.

Given the dearth of dirt to have leaked (or even dripped) out about Roddy McDowall's sexual activities one tends to believe he was very circumspect about dating or even hooking up.

We know what Rock Hudson, Tab Hunter, Tony Perkins, Paul Lynde, and others got up to because on occasions they were seen. This and or former partners, lovers, hook-ups, etc... blabbed. Tab Hunter spilled the tea on most of his lovers that were famous or at least somewhat known. He and Roddy McDowall were good friends, and of course moved in that same closeted gay world of Hollywood at the time; but he never mentioned anything more went on between themselves.

Not to sound cruel or unkind, the other thing is unlike Rock Hudson, Tony Perkins and (sadly) too many other gays of Hollywood at that time Roddy McDowall like Tab Hunter managed to escape HIV/AIDS crisis unscathed. Tab Hunter seems to have been involved in mostly long term relationships aside from a few brief flings (and lucky escapes if you count both Tony Perkins and Nureyev), so maybe RMD had a series of quiet close relationships.

Do you really think Mr Dinner Theatre Tab Hunter wasn't fucking other people while he was in relationships? Really?

Is there the possibility that Roddy wasn't sexually active?

Most gay men, at least those who knew from an early age which side of fence they were sitting upon, were broken in by an older man. This could be anywhere from someone in late teens to middle aged....

If Roddy McDowall then not more than a child himself was teaching Elizabeth Taylor about blow jobs, how did he come upon that bit of information?

Considering what went on during old Hollywood studio system days to young girls and women, it is safe to assume young boys or men weren't out of the question. We know certain "beefcake" agents sampled the wares they were selling, and Roddy McDowall was a very beautiful youth and young man.....

Yeah, but you're talking about abuse and possible rape. Child victims of those behaviors often are sexually "precocious" - it's a red flag for doctors. But assuming he was abused, he may have cut himself off sexually as he grew older.

[Quote] But assuming he was abused, he may have cut himself off sexually as he grew older.

Are you speaking from personal experience?

I started out very late-19. Honestly I would have liked to have started out years earlier. Had teachers or coaches that I liked taken advantage of me let's say at 15 or 16 I would have enjoyed it immensely. As long as they were kind.

R167, no, thankfully, but I am aware it is a coping strategy. If we don't hear about Roddy's boyfriends, maybe there were no boyfriends to hear about.

Someone upthread said their friend was a boyfriend of Roddy's and that he was left money in the will.

R162, R163 and R164 - not to tread on sensitive toes, but has anyone considered the possibility that Roddy was mostly or exclusively a top? That would have reduced his risk of contracting HIV.

There's no reason he couldn't have been - just because a man is perhaps not the most masculine man in the world doesn't preclude his preferring to top.

R171, I couldn’t agree more!

Well, his name WAS Roddy...

Stranger things have happened, R163. Not all gay men lack self-control.

Self control? Tab was a travelling player.

R169 Roddy did have boyfriends. Back in 1965 his boyfriend at the time was allegedly Ed Rosenthal, the very hot shirtless guy in shades in this video clip. Roddy did have good taste in men.

R176

Ed Rosenthal? Who is he? What is that name?

What someone posted above was clearly in view looking at video in R176; cans of beer and ciggys for miles, but not a scrap of food; not even nibbles.

Suppose it would be rude to bring one's own and not share. Hopefully there was a burger joint or someplace on way home to get a bite to eat. After few hours of sitting around doing nothing but drinking (domestic) beer I'd be famished.

No wonder people smoked so much back then.

Even a cheap dive bar has bowls of chips and pretzels.

He was a lot more famous than you, OP.

R164

There was also a possibility Liberace was straight ; but that wasn't true either.

For obvious reasons RMD kept things on the down low; but never the less it was certain he wasn't just gay in theory only.

In Roddy's silent film footage is that Jennifer Jones in the blue shift dress with the bottle of beer?

No, Mrs. Selznick is not in the Rosenthal clip. (Two other brunettes are).

He hated Eddie Fisher and was glad when Liz Taylor left him for Richard Burton.

Who wouldn’t leave Eddie Fisher for Richard Burton?

Carrie.

R71, Roddy McDowall was in eleven Broadway shows between 1953 and 1967 including COMPULSION with Dean Stockwell but he didn't do the film though Stockwell did with Bradford Dillman in McDowall's role.

In Fisher's prime I would have happily left Burton for him. Great singer when he wasn't doing schlock and very jewish cute. Noel marveled at his butt.

One wonders at the quality of relationships you've had, r189. One really does.

r185

What did he dislike about Eddie Fisher?

Infidelity.

Fisher came to be known as a thorough going asshole who eventually had few if any friends.

R187 Carrie had no time left for Eddie when she grew up. She called him a broken record.

Debbie was no saint, but Eddie whined and complained about her like it was her fault that he left her for Liz. He happily followed her. He claimed that Roddy told him that he didn’t behave like a real man when Liz and Richard Burton cuckolded him.

Where is Ed Rosenthal now? He was hot AF.

[Quote] Carrie had no time left for Eddie when she grew up. She called him a broken record.

I guess you didn't see the Fisher Stevens "Carrie & Debbie" doc.

[quote] An actor can't have much self-respect if they appear in a monkey suit. Richard Burton wouldn't play a monkey.

But Kim Hunter and Maurice Evans, who were both highly respected actors, would, so that's a pretty unconvincing argument.

Richard Burton acted opposite Joey Heatherton. He might as well have done TROG.

At least Joey Heatherton was a better singer than Elizabeth Taylor.

R196 growing dope, if it is the same man.

There are probably at least a couple of hundred Ed Rosenthals in the US, I doubt it's the same person. Also I don't see any resemblance.

He became extremely famous as a child actor in the early 1940s, when he first came over to America. "How Green Was My Valley" is still one of the most beautiful movies I have ever seen.

He was very famous as a friend of Elizabeth Taylor with whom he costarred in "Lassie Come Home."

As he got older, his looks were delicate...and it may have hurt his career in the fifties. But in the sixties onward, Roddy McDowall found a niche playing character roles.

It's probably been mentioned already, but check out his home movies from his Malibu beach house.

R35 What do you mean McDowall was "at the center of several post-production battles over editing" in 'Cleopatra'?

Roddy was such a trouper that he acted as Elizabeth's stand-in for the second unit filming. There were a lot of arguments over how usable that footage was.

Stefanie Powers told a story about her first Roddy.party. She went to the bar and there stood Elizabeth Taylor and Ava Gardner. When they spoke to her she broke into tears crying "I'm getting divorcedddd.".

Ava asked her "is this your first?". When SP said yes Liz and Ava responded in unison "Oh, welll..."

Roddy's home was Hollywood Central.

An eldergay couple I knew claimed to have had sex with Roddy in New York back in the 50s. I don't know if they did him individually or had a three-way.

r192 ok thanks.

I thought it might have been that he personally insulted Roddy or something of that nature that caused enmity.

R206 I'm assuming she was divorcing was from Gary Lockwood. In the 1960s he was easily one of the hottest guys in Hollywood.

He sounds like a good guy to have as a friend -- supportive, discreet, fun. What's not to like?

Eddie and Roddy hated each other. Eddie wasn't happy that Roddy worshipped Liz and I wonder if Roddy wasn't very much an advocate of Liz divorcing Eddie when they worked on Cleopatra.

r211 How did Roddy McDowell get on with Richard Burton?

Apparently they were really good friends before Cleopatra, R212 - maybe less afterwards.

"If you were an adult at the time, you would likely know that film was Cleopatra (1963). McDowell was glad to be working again with his beloved Taylor, but the truth is with the weight of the film, her health and Burton, she didn't have much time for McDowall. He warned her about getting involved with Burton, saying it would never work. He, however, was superb as Octavian Caesar, one of the best adult roles. It's been said that he should have been nominated for an Oscar but Fox messed up in submitting his name correctly. "

Then there was that weird rumor that Burton raped Eddie Fisher during the making of Cleopatra. Was Roddy really jealous of Burton because he had a fling with him or wanted to have a fling with him and Elizabeth got in the way? You could speculate forever I suppose.

There are some crazy stories about the making of Cleopatra, and we'll probably never know most of the real gossip.

I've got to go back and re-read my Eddie Fisher autobiographies. He was kind of shit stirrer and probably expanded on the truth a bit, but they are really juicy reads.

Oh my !! OP here. Didn't expect my thread to take off like this. I wanted to know if Roddy McDowall really deserved that spot in inmemorium and this thread is veering in every random direction. Now, we are discussing about Elizabeth Taylor and Eddie Fischer. WTF ?

Richard Burton wasn't a nice person himself so I'd hardly hold him up as a paragon of virtue next to Fisher. I'm into jewish cute rather than pock mocked welsh so go ahead and damn me for it. Fisher's Live at the Winter Garden is terrific again when he's not singing junk. And yeah he was a shitty person but there are a lot of shitty people without his gifts.

Carrie was such a mess because she didn't have a tenth of her parents looks and talent and knew deep down she was a fraud. Her parents both made it without nepotism.

Go for it, r215.

Nonsense. Carrie had a voice. Even competitive Debbie said it, and she wasn't lying.

R217 Shame she didn't have a career as a singer, then.

Everybody looks like that at whatever age he was. I'm talking about 50s Eddie.

Roddy is really terrific in Cleopatra. That loss of a nomination was a huge fuck up.

Thank you for your detailed reply r213! There is certainly potentially a lot of juicy stuff there for people to get their teeth into!

He was not very famous OP, but he was in every movie on the 60's/70's so people knew his face, if not his name. The in memoriam thing is coïncidental. It doesn't reflect his stature as a movie star. He wasn't a star. He was well liked in the industry, as he- sincerely- licked the ass of every celebrity. Thread closed

I like the story about Fisher walking into the suite where Todd and Elizabeth were and Liz is in bed with her pussy on display and Todd was right there. It's like they were inviting him for a 3 way. If there's anything I love it's Hollywood sex and exhibitionism. And how I would have loved to have been a part of it.

I said ' thread closed' R222. What part of that don' t you understand ?

Fuck you, R221. This thread closes when we stop talking, not when you declare it.

Asshole.

There is an Alec Baldwin interview with Gary Lockwood and Keir Dullea about 2001. Even hetero Baldwin tells Lockwood how gorgeous he is in that scene were he's talking to his parents in shorts.

That image certainly made my boyish heart flutter. Lockwood is quite the physical specimen. He's gotten quite unkempt and large since then.

My god, R225 -That was more than fifty years ago! No one is gonna rock a bod like that in their 80s!

Gary Lockwood - still bangable.

John Saxon did pretty well into his seventies.

Lockwood wasn't very handsome. He was young.

Lockwood wasn't very handsome. He was young.

Unfortunately Lockwood pinched Stefanie Powers' money and left her with a number of unfinished real estate projects. An asshole but yeah, he was HAF. .

R198

Tidbit about Maurice Evans.....

In real life Mr. Evans insisted his name be pronounced the British way (Morris), but on Bewitched it was always "Maw-REESE". When Sam sends for an Australian warlock (and arch enemy of her father) he repeatedly pronounces the name "Morris".

Maurice Evans despite an extensive CV in both theater (mostly Shakespeare) , and some film roles is likely remembered most for Bewitched, Planet of the Apes, and Rosemary's Baby.

Eldergays remember poor Maurice for that painfully arid, cheap-looking studio back and white TV version of 'Macbeth' with the embarrassingly-histrionic Dame Judith Anderson.

Television of the 1950's through good part of 1970's and maybe onto 1980's was about bringing culture to the masses.

Maurice Evans has the distinction of having acted in more Shakespeare plays on television than any other actor, a record still unbroken.

Yes, often individual productions may be found wanting, but that could be said of various other arts programming also shown on television. But will give credit for studios at least trying to broaden arts exposure. Besides Mr. Evans performance in production mentioned couldn't be any worse than his hammy soliloquies on Bewitched.

Yes, R234, television of the 1950's may seem primitive but I was pleasantly surprised to see Tab Hunter and Chuck Heston in this 1956 show.

There must be lots of other shows with big stars which are now lost.

R211

IIRC story goes Roddy McDowall was dispatched by Liz Taylor to tell Eddie Fisher his marriage was over. The man responded in indignation that a "fag" or some other nasty word for gays" was sent to deliver the news.

My guess is RMD's papers probably contain lots of dirt about his best girlfriend Elizabeth Taylor. Lord knows there was plenty to spare; the woman was a by some accounts a lush and drug addict among other issues. Richard Burton himself consumed so much booze they probably never had to embalm his body.

Debbie Reynolds and Elizabeth Taylor eventually patched things up, but Eddie Fisher remained persona non grata.

Eddie Fisher was a nasty bit of work, remember it was he who started the rumor that Agnes Moorehead and Debbie Reynolds were involved in a lesbian love affair.

Kind of interesting to think that if Roddy was still alive he would be 92 in less than a month and lauded as one of the last living stars and links to the golden age of Hollywood.

I wonder what he would make of Hollywood today?

Hollywood hid its trash in his day.

R235 I have some old TV dramas, shall post them on the theater thread.

^ Thank you.

Never even nominated.

^ But always well liked...

I always liked Roddy. i related to him. he was obviously gay, but could act. I first became aware of him with Planet of the Apes, and after that I always sought out his performances. Bedknobs and Broomsticks was hard work...

But then found his early work, How Green is My Valley, and his friendship with Elizabeth Taylor and realized how long he had been around.

Then heard about the huge cock. And new he was a gay legend.

When he died, I felt so alone, nobody in my town cared or knew who he was. I was delighted when I saw Dominique Dunne had written the tribute for him for Vanity Fair. He knew. I found a seat down by the river than runs through my town, next to a great beat...but this was daylight. I read this article. And cried. For a lost Hollywood. For a dead man who had so much class. I cried for a world I could never have been apart of, but he made me feel, in a small way, like i was.

I really fucking loved Roddy McDowall.

Speak of the devil; Roddy McDowall starred in an episode of Alfred Hitchcock Hour last night on MeTV

[quote]He didn't have enormous range, but he reliably played the (gay) best friend, the stolid third rung character and the villian who initially seems nice which made him easy to cast as a guest star on episodic tv.

Based on that last criterion, it sounds like every gay man I've ever met would be easy to cast as a guest star on episodic TV!

In that VF piece (R244) inquiring minds (ok, just nosy) want to know who was the great love of Roddy McDowall's life that walked out.

That link says Dominick.

Wasn't Eddie F supposed to have a big cock? I think Liz had a thing for large dicks, including John Warner and maybe Mike Todd. Not sure about Wilding or Hilton. But probably yes for Fortensky.

Theater queens know Maurice Evans for his less-than-stunning performance in TENDERLOIN.

R225 Alec Baldwin was a busboy at Studio 54 in the 70's and his uniform was a micro-short with nothing underneath=Alec is many things, but "straight" sure ain't one of them.

I always wondered about his busboy days at Studio 54. What was that about? But since then there hasn't been a hint of his being gay. Well except for him drooling over Lockwood's body in 2001.

Isn't that enough ?

According to Dennis Lavern, skipper of the Wagners' yacht , Roddy and Elizabeth Taylor rushed to Wagner 's the night he came home after they found the body, to ask what had happened. The 3 of them spent the night locked in the kitchen. Roddy himself said, about meeting young Natalie for the first time in the late 50's that she was the prettiest girl he had ever seen. Ouch Elizabeth !

Wood did have the better nose. Though no one can beat Elizabeth for her eyes/brows combo.

Young Elizabeth.

R30, the biography is on youtube in five parts, but the audio quality isn't particularly good. You can also watch it on dailymotion for free.

Did Natalie get a nosejob?

R44, The two nude guys in that pic are nice-looking but side by side it doesn't look like it's actually Roddy or Tab?

Christopher Isherwood wrote in one of his Memoirs "Lost Years," that apparently Roddy was pretty kinky and an exhibitionist early on in his teens:

(Excerpt from Lost Years, circa1945)

"Tom Maddox [not his real name.] was a very good-looking young actor, of the type which is classified as "rugged." His career looked promising at that time, but he never amounted to much. He was having a dangerous and exciting affair with Roddy McDowall, who was then in his teens. According to Tom, Roddy was the one who started it. Tom said Roddy was insanely reckless and got a thrill out of having sex with Tom in the McDowall home, while Roddy's parents were in the next room."

Footnote:

"The Information Please Almanac says that Roddy was born in September 1928—in which case he would have only been sixteen at this time. Since writing the above, I have been reliably informed that Roddy was eighteen when he had an affair with Tom—which means that it can't have happened until the fall of the following year. I still trust my memory as far as Tom's statement is concerned, but no doubt he was bragging a little to impress Denny [Denham Fouts], that tireless chicken hawk. Tom would want to make Roddy seem as young and as wild as possible, because that would make him more desirable in Denny's eyes."

R247, It might have been Montgomery Clift, in the early 50s Roddy moved all the way from Los Angeles to New York just to be with him and stayed for two and a half years before Monty broke it off and started seeing Jack Larson. It's said that Roddy attempted suicide some time after, however, still, he remained a loyal friend to Clift until his death in1966 and had burst into tears when he was told Clift had died.

Was Ken a recipient of Roddy's rod?

Clift was not considered rugged (his persona was in place before the car accident), nor could it be said that his career didn't amount to much.

Maybe "Maddox" was Rory Calhoun.

Did Roddy ever do Hollywood Squares? I'm visualizing a gay diagonal with Vincent Price - Paul Lynde -and Roddy.

R216

That's Larry King.

Maybe "Tom Maddox" was Tom Tryon?

Or Hal Hardon?

Tryon didn't arrive on the scene until the mid-50s. When Roddy was out of his teen years.

[quote]Maurice Evans despite an extensive CV in both theater (mostly Shakespeare) , and some film roles is likely remembered most for Bewitched, Planet of the Apes, and Rosemary's Baby.

Thank Evans for little roles.

Ok, so who were some rugged actors of the 1940s who didn't end up having notable careers and who may have enjoyed the company of men and toney types like Fouts?

William Eythe comes to mind, but he doesn't strike me as specially "rugged."

I suspect "Tom Maddox" was Farley Granger.

R262, you're confusing the boyfriend referenced in R247's question (about the Dominick Dunne article) with the one mentioned by Christopher Isherwood in R259. These are two different men: the first was "Roddy's great love," the second a rugged actor he had a fling with whose career "never amounted to much."

Farley was far from "rugged" though

R262, Monty Clift is who walked out on Roddy, not who secretly romped Roddy's rump while mama and papa McDowall were in the other room.

If famous means he was a household name, he was. At least in the United States. He may have been a second-tier or third-tier star, as people here have said, but so are many very famous people today. Betty White isn't an A-list movie star but everyone knows who she is. Roddy was famous in that way, for being "Roddy McDowall." He was known to my parents from the movies, he was known to me from talk shows and horror movies. Literally even kids knew who he was.

[quote]the second a rugged actor he had a fling with whose career "never amounted to much."

What? Roddy had an affair with Glennie?

"Tom Maddox [not his real name.] was a very good-looking young actor, of the type which is classified as "rugged." His career looked promising at that time, but he never amounted to much.

Probably Guy Madison.

Tom/Guy (3 letters), Maddox /Madison (same 3 first letters).

He was a rugged, very good looking young actor then. His movie career didn't amount to much, though he did have a TV series in the 50s.

Guy Madison was pretty. He was rugged by the 1960s, when he was no longer relevant.

The picture in my mind of Guy banging Roddy's virgin hole in 1944 is making me sweat!

Dan Levy has better eyebrows than Elizabeth Taylor

What about the word "combo" don't you understand?

Natalie had a better body and bone structure. She was perfect. She used a lot of tricks to contour her nose which could appear slightly too large depending on how she was filmed, but in Roddy 's home movies , you can see how delicate and stunning she was. The camera can be a bit treacherous ( I can think of several very handsome actors I' ve worked with, who were absolutely drop dead gorgeous in person, and the camera never showed their true beauty. Alan Bates for instance, was a God among humans. Absolutely fucking Stu-nning. and the opposite is true also. Binoche, Terence Stamp, are greatly enhanced by the process ) , but she was needle phobic to the point of not fixing her deformed wrist. She had one of the most beautiful set of eyes ever seen on film, but Taylor had THE most beautiful eyes ever, and the boobs. I personaly prefer Natalie. Taylor had a lot of work done, nose, chin, lifts etc. Natalie 's beauty is timeless. Taylor would be considered too fat and too short today, and she was saying it herself. Her favourite feature was her raven black hair. She didn't consider herself a beauty, always citing Ava Gardner as an exemple of' 'that' '. Both beauties (Wood and Taylor) worshipped Vivien Leigh. Carroll Baker and others said that the 60's were great, because EVERYBODY (almost) was there, veterans and young, and the parties were filled with godesses, but the most beautiful of them all was Natalie.

"He hated Eddie Fisher and was glad when Liz Taylor left him for Richard Burton."

EVERYBODY hated Eddie Fisher. He really was a loathsome guy. I have no idea why women went for him. He was a clod and I didn't think he was much to look at. Was it his singing that got their crotches wet? Anyway, I think it was in Kitty Kelley's biography of Liz that I heard this tale. Burton said to Fisher "I'm in love with your girl." To which Fisher replied "She's not my girl, she's my wife." To which Burton shot back "Alright dummkopf, I'm in love with your wife."

And now I want to cry. I ASKED you 2wice to close the thread. I didn't want to be nostalgie.

And that's how we play "Get the Guests", r285

Here's what Monty Clift's crud friend Ned Smith had to say about Roddy Mcdowall:

"I'd made no notice of him as an actor. Pretended I had no idea who he was, although I'd seen him in movies dozens of times. He even spelled his name for me, and I said, 'I've never heard of you.' I said it viciously. As soon as he left I turned to Monty and said, 'Well that's the closest thing to a homosexual you're ever gonna find. I don't like him.' And Monty suddenly looked whipped. He didn't like me at all for saying that."

Monty Clift really treated Roddy like dirt, but what's irksome is where he couldn't even be bothered to defend his relationship with Roddy, and that too in his OWN home. Ned Smith, a so-called friend and ONE passive aggressive bitch! Why'd Monty care what such a dud thought of him? I mean, this guy didn't exactly add anything refreshing to Clift's bio, mostly just complaining about how homosexuals made him feel uncomfortable.

R278 you have me torn up with jealousy of Roddy McDowall and his parent-proximate romps with, convincingly, Guy Madison in his prime.

Who was this Ned W. Smith? A civilian?

No one would have referred to pretty boy Guy Madison as rugged in his prime.

Exactly. Guy Madison is RUGGED for you ??? Wow.are you BLIND ??

I definitely thought of Guy Madison as rugged in Till the End of Time (1946—same year he, if he it was, was shagging Roddy). He had a pretty face but a kind of tough bruiser look and affect. In any case, Isherwood's characterization of him as "rugged" might be in hindsight and refer mainly to the Westerns he started doing a few years later.

Guy Madison had a good career for a while. I think you're aiming too high.

Prime Guy.

R289, Basically. Worked as a chemical engineer. And had nothing much to do with the theatre or cinema.

Were Ned and Monty childhood friends? Their families were close?

Guy's bloom was shortlived if this picture actually dates from the early 1950s.

I think Guy Madison fits Isherwood's description: "His career looked promising at that time [1946], but he never amounted to much." In 1944 he had a memorable bit part in Since You Went Away , then a breakout lead performance in Till the End of Time in 1946, then in the turkey Honeymoon with Shirley Temple. Then he started his series of forgettable Westerns (ultimately on tv), which doubtless Isherwood would have considered "not much."

But why would Isherwood have described Madison as rugged?

Dunne and Isherwood were gossips.

Do not expect anything from their mouths to be true.

Vidal too.

There is a brilliant series of 12 videos on YouTube of Roddy McDowell being interviewed about Hollywood, acting and showbiz .Filmed in 1996. He is really interesting and engaging person to listen and watch in interview.

I have linked to the first video.

^ McDowell's nose seem to lengthen with age

R296, Monty's social climbing mother, Ethel Clift, imposed the friendship, they met when they were fifteen years old. The Smith family were conservative Quakers from a upper class background, similar to Clift's family. Ned said, Mrs. Clift practically chose him to be Monty's best friend, oddly the friendship lasted for several years. Ned Smith ditched Monty around the mid fifties because he thought Clift was a junkie and he didn't like his "lifestyle". However, he came back into Clift's life during his later years because Mrs. Clift had asked him to be his friend again.

Everybody liked Roddy McDowell. Even bitchy, cantankerous Louise Brooks adored him. He was one of the few people she would have anything to do with in her later years.

There's is no e in his name.

r302 Your link does not seem to work?

Who is this Ned, friend (ex?) of Montgomery Clift???

R266

Thomas Tyron, there's a dark horse!

Did the whole Hollywood marriage thing for a beard, but that didn't take and there was an end to things.

Very attractive TT went on to have both Clive Clerk (OBC of A Chorus Line ) along with gay porn actor Casey Donovan as lovers. There was a bit of overlap between the two men apparently, but Thomas Tyron ultimately gave Casey Donovan the push out of fears being associated with a gay porn actor would "out" himself.

Could see Thomas Tryon and Roddy McDowall; but also can see how TT would dump Roddy because of same fears he later had about Casey Donovan. I mean it wasn't exactly a secret in Hollywood (or anywhere else) that Roddy McDowall was gay.

More dish on Tom Tryon... He was a fine looking man!

R302

Bones stop growing after puberty, but cartilage (what makes up noses and ears) continues growing until death. Thus every body's nose and ears get "larger" to some extent with age. The latter also begin to droop thanks to constant forces of gravity, much like breasts.

This is reason so many who have had nose jobs in their youth end up going back again and again as they age. You mess with something in your 20's, but as time goes on the body and nature continue doing their thing. Interfering with things once can mean a lifetime of going back to "touch-up" things as the body ages.

You look at women like Goldie Hawn who was a stunning beauty in her youth with a natural face; now looks like something out of a science fiction flick.

Goldie Hawn was never a stunning beauty.

I don't think she looks bad. She's a sun worshiper so it is what is.

R269

Hey, even great Shakespearean actors have to eat to you know.

Perfect timing, R313. Here is a production of Shakespeare's The Tempest with McDowall, Richard Burton, Maurice Evans, and Lee Remick. Roddy cavorts in white briefs and full body paint. He is quite good, actually!

R314 Great find!

R314 The actor playing Ferdinand has got good legs

R272, that poor girl is thinking "How the hell do I get myself into these things..."

Given how Isherwood's taste in men apparently ran towards those so young they still had peach fuzz, can see how Guy Madison would be considered "rugged" A twink he was not.

WTF?

That looks like a still from the set of Till the End of Time. Lots of shots of his melancholy character shirtless, writhing in bed or on the beach.

What r276 said. I was a kid in the 70s and knew who he was from Planet of the Apes on, recognizing his distinctive accent and delivery (Dominick Dunne in the article linked to above called it a Noel Coward derivative; maybe there was some Claude Rains? It was suitable for effete villains like Octavian but also for well-meaning outsiders like Cornelius, and dog-whistled validation to gaylings everywhere).

R308, You should tell that to all the middle age fangirls out there who still believe Roddy is straight lol. I saw one on IG, said she's going to write fanfic about Roddy falling in love with a girl, assuming the girl is meant to be her... (eyeroll).

I see this happening quite often on "dedicated" fan pages run by straight women, where they take dead gay actors, singers, entertainers...etc, and insist that they were really just straight or at least bi, and post endless pictures of them with their beards saying stuff like "look what a cute couple they were".... Ugh! I once got into it with a Freddie Mercury stan who went on and on about how Mary Austin was Freddie's "One True Love" and Jim Hutton basically doesn't exist lol.

Seriously, though, what the fuck is wrong with these women??

George Cukor was straight.

[quote]How famous was the gay actor, Roddy McDowall ?

More famous than you.

Less gay than you.

[quote]More dish on Tom Tryon... He was a fine looking man!

Well, r309, this isn't exactly dish, but back in the late 70s, Tom Tryon used to work out at the West Side Y. I would see him there often in the late afternoon. He was very handsome in person. He was always alone and kept to himself -- didn't socialize with anyone. Never saw him in the shower or steam room, though, and so didn't get a chance to evaluate his sizemeat. He lived in the San Remo on Central Park West, where Rock Hudson also had an apartment.

^. Tom Tryon was too good looking to be in serious contemporary movies. It's just not credible to have gorgeous men like him and Warren Beatty play gas station attendant or busboys.

He was especially non-credible in that movie 'The Cardinal' (and I'm thinking that Otto Preminger was a tasteless ego-maniac)

All the stars that never were are parking cars and pumping gas.

IIRC Noel Coward was about twenty years older than Roddy McDowall, but both came from lower class backgrounds. Neither attended public school nor would have had any sort of education that provided that effete sounding clipped proper upper class British accent still so common in early to middle part of last century.

Noel Coward developed his public school RP by judicious study of elocution. This was for both his craft (acting/entertaining), but also to better blend into the high society set he moved within.

Roddy McDowall came to USA in his teens and was promptly taken into the studio system of Hollywood. Besides studios employing an army of speech and dialect experts, for those of school age there were teachers who would have taught state mandated subjects. Thus a good part of Roddy McDowall's English instruction would have been in "American", not British and certainly not public school.

RMD's accent as a grown man was certainly "British", but one wonders how much effort was put into keeping that up. Elizabeth Taylor all but lost her British accent, Cary Grant's heavy cockney was transformed (by elocution lessons shouldn't wonder) into a smooth and suave British accent that wasn't quite RP, but never the less several steps up from dead common.

Weren't they both child actors? They were around RP types since they were knee high to a grasshopper.

R329

RMD was around theater and film actors since about aged nine, how much RP he would have picked up or learned is anyone's guess.

Kids pick up stuff like speech patterns very quickly.

More dirt!

Just as repeated often enough on DL everyone in old Hollywood was republican, even Roderick Andrew McDowall.

Who is this "Patrick Palombo" that moved into 10418 Dunleer drive (home of the McDowall family) after Mrs. McDowall and Virginia no longer resided.

Farley Granger was an old friend of RMD and Montgomery Cliff; at one point they all lived on same street in UES NYC though separate apartments.

By all accounts RMD was the first "real" Hollywood actor Tab Hunter met (latter was working at Rexall drugstore at Hollywood and Highland], and the two became fast friends. Whether it was like knowing like at first glace who knows. Despite that those shirtless photos from "Calling All Girls" seems to imply the two men seem just to have been life long good friends. That may have included the occasional "FWB" encounter, or maybe not, but don't think there was any long term affair.

It was actor turned agent Richard Clayton that arrived with RMD in tow, he subsequently also represented Tab Hunter and James Dean among others. It was Dick Clayton who "discovered" Tab Hunter, introduced him to Henry Willson, and encouraged former to take on latter as his agent.

Haven't turned up much on Dick Clayton yet, but he never married and died at 93 leaving no heirs.

Here is another name to throw into mix; John Valva who some do say was Roddy McDowall's lover.

One of the first stirring in my loins was watching of all thing The Wonderful World of Disney. In Moon Pilot in one scene Tom Tryon is topless and Dani walks in on him and he grabs a towel to cover himself. I found that incredibly sexy.

I haven't seen any or Thoma Tryon's work as actor but I have read three of his books: "The Other", "Harvest Home", and "Crowned Heads." They were all very interesting. "The Other" is a horror novel about twin boys. "Harvest Home", while pretty preposterous, is still a good read. It's a horror novel about a small town that practices ghastly fertility rites. "Crowned Heads" is a novel about Hollywood; it concerns four Hollywood types (a seemingly ageless Garbo-type actress, a child star, a B-movie sexpot, and a beloved elderly Golden Age Hollywood actor) and their fates. All are worth reading.

The Other is an awesome 1972 film. Tom wrote the screenplay.

Horror films of 1970's are some of the great classics and "The Other" ranks up there with the best.

So much of what came along in 1980's and afterwards relied upon cheap blood and gore. While films like "The Other" were physiological thrillers that not only kept you at edge of seat, but scared the life out of you as well.

Tryon's family owned the fancy men's store in Hartford--it closed not too long ago. There was a little money in his background. "The Other" was a best seller and got better reviews than his other books.

"The Other is an awesome 1972 film. Tom wrote the screenplay."

It needs a remake. Some drastic changes were made in the movie, and they were NOT good. What was done with the character of the handyman was really stupid. The ending sucked and in the novel the discovery of the baby was much more horrifying. If Tryon wrote the script he was a pretty shitty scriptwriter.

If you saw The Other on television there is a good chance it was the alternate ending.

R328 I bet there was more to the Noel Coward / Cary Grant friendship than what were told. I'm not suggesting any bedroom behaviour but they did meet up over the years from the 30s to the 70s.

I'm wondering if any of Coward's style of comedy delivery is traceable in Cary Grant's comedy delivery (though I know some English smarty-pants will tell us it was more akin to Sir Gerald Du Maurier and that American screwball was a greater influence on Cary Grant).

Didn't Cary Grant come up through British Music Hall?

R341

Upon arriving in USA Cary Grant first shared a home with Noel Coward; he then went on to move in with Randolph Scott....

Did Grant have any men after the divorce from Cannon?

R342

Cary Grant actually came out of Vaudeville, not British Music Hall

Late George Rose channels a bit of old British music hall in this clip from "Mystery of Drood".

Oh, how I loved George Rose! His terrible murder was tragic.

R347

Didn't know about that tragic bit of scandal until recently as was rather young at the time. Seems a shame that George Rose still lies in that unmarked grave

Big Daddy!!!!!!

[quote]Upon arriving in USA Cary Grant first shared a home with Noel Coward

Never heard that before.

Cary Grant also shacked up with Billy Haines for a while as well. So it does seem like who's who of gay Hollywood had Cary to stay.

You had him in New York City Orry dear, mustn't be greedy, it's very unbecoming....

Was George Rose not a pedo?

R352

Sadly that is how his death was interpreted by many; an old nasty pervy gay man got what was coming to him after messing around with a young island boy. But others say not....

More:

If George Rose's interests were strictly charitable, why didn't he just "adopt" a kid for 5 dollars a month...?

Of all the places to pull such things why George Rose choose Dominican Republic have no idea. The place is pretty much a hell hole today, and was worse back then; certainly not the safest place for any gay American.

Lord knows Mr. Rose could have found himself a young "protege" or "assistant", or whatever you want to call him right here in NYC or elsewhere in USA. Plenty of other middle aged or elder gay men did...

R356, gay men 'vacationing' in such places were courting something like the fate of Sebastian Venable.

Beats me r355...

R358... I meant Matt Gaetz. Damned autocorrect!

I saw Rose any number of times. There is simply no one like him today but then he comes from a period of style that hasn't existed for decades. What a pleasure he was in Pirates and Drood. The way he could effortlessly command a theater was a joy. And then he would play butlers in things like Aren't We All never pulling focus from people like Colbert and Harrison.

I believe Kelly and Grant were lovers and Kelly was crazy about him so that when Grant dropped him because he was clearly known as a queer in Hollywood and Grant didn't want to be associated with that it was enormously hurtful for the rest of his life. The sting remains.

R355

Read linked articles; it does seem as if Mr. Rose wanted an heir, or at least that is what he gave out to justify matters.

Until legalziation of same sex marriage made things unnecessary gay men adopting grown young men or even older was quite common. It was one of the few ways to legally devolve things upon someone not your child or legally married spouse that could withstand legal challenges. Wills can be contested, trusts are expensive to set up and must be done properly to ensure benefits happen as intended.

Know of at least two or three older gay men on UES that left their businesses (antique dealers, art galleries, etc...) to their adopted young "business partner". Again this sort of arrangement was very common all over USA with gay men. Some did things so well, and never foretold same sex marriage would ever arrive that things couldn't be undone easily or at all.

On flip side divorcing a spouse is one thing; undoing wills, trusts, etc... is another matter. This is how the young man who murdered George Rose still got his inheritance including that house in DR.

R361

George Rose was a great talent and huge resource whose death left a void in theater community. Had he been around longer to perhaps teach, write a book or two......

What age group would you like George Rose to have taught?

"Women He's Undressed" documentary on Orry Kelly is worth a watch. It doesn't shy away from showcasing the relationship between Orry and Cary Grant.

Cary Grant aka Archie Leach comes off as quite an asshole, and he really lived up to his surname 'Leach'.

R364

Teaching actors Rose!

Any photos of a young Orry Kelly?

IIRC Orry-Kelly basically drank himself to death. Was it unrequited love of Cary Grant? Or just the stress and worry many gay men of the era were often subjected to that caused his love of drink.

I'm sure Kelly found other men...

Quite honestly don't know what young struggling actor Archie Leach saw in Orry-Kelly. Haven't found anything of a the man while young, but don't think youth made that much of a difference with Orry-Kelly overall.

If tittle-tattle is to believed Cary Grant (as he was later calling himself) had an off and on again relationship with Orry-Kelly, even moving back in with him when OK arrived in California. Cary Grant was one of the pallbearers at Orry's funeral, so there is that as well.

Excuse me, has everyone forgotten whose fame this thread is about?

Orry Kelly was in a relationship for some time with a guy called, Bob, who.was a builder. Scotty Bowers fixed it.

We've pretty much done Roddy McDowall, unless you yourself have something more illuminating to say about the man.

Far as one is concerned when discussing this or that gay from "old Hollywood" or entertainment business bringing in others is fair game.

Then as now many small gay communities are often a tightly knit and rather incestuous. Whenever topic of conversation starts out about this gay person from old Hollywood, or that gay man from old Broadway things invariably open up to discussing same circle of other gay men. They all knew (or at least knew of) each other, went to each other's homes, parties, and in many cases a bit more.

Someone should do a play or something featuring these gays of "old Hollywood" or whatever dishing dirt or otherwise telling things as they were. It would be a riot

R71 Roddy was on the sidelines in death as in life.

R374

And here's to the girls who just watch; aren't they the best?

The young pups have no idea at all what life was like for eldergays in their youth. Threads like these give vivid examples of closeting, gay bashing, lavender marriages, etc. And some, like Roddy McDowall, emerge as true role models who lived their life the way they wanted, kept faith with friends, and held their heads high.

DL Icon

Roddy was also BFFs with Mae West. Mae Fuckin' West!

Thanks, as always, for an illuminating thread, DL.

No mention of the relationship between Anthony Perkins and Roddy McDowall?

It's written in 'Split image: The Life of Anthony Perkins,' that they both went to Browne and Nichols in Cambridge around the same time in1945, so perhaps "Tom Maddox" is actually Tony Perkins?.... Although Tony was never considered "rugged."

It also says during Tony's time there he would often act out a gross caricature of Roddy throughout the halls of the school, his impersonation was that of a lisping, mincing queen, all put on for his straight buddies. Publicly mocking somebody elses sexuality to cover up your own is the pitiful act of a coward. However Roddy still became good friends with Tony later on.

R379 Somebody had to befriend the toxic cunt.

Again, Roddy McDowall knew and was friends with everyone who mattered in Hollywood; especially "old".

His reputation as being the best friend a girl or guy could have allowed people to be at their ease around him and not worry about being given away.

Many gay men then and now are like Sylvia Fowler; pretending to be one's friend but always stirring up shit. RMD did none of that, and he likely knew plenty.

I wonder if he wrote a Diary...

If Roddy McDowall did it was likely burned or destroyed if not prior then after his death.

Again we now living will never know because those damned papers are locked up tight. Is that Mr. Osborne still living? Everyone has a price you know....

[Quote] And some, like Roddy McDowall, emerge as true role models who lived their life the way they wanted, kept faith with friends, and held their heads high.

Mary!

I'm glad that evil dope Mr Spoto hasn't done a ghastly hatchet job on Roddy McDowell.

Spoto is a stranger to factual documentation.

"Spoto is a stranger to factual documentation."

I agree with that. His Marilyn Monroe biography is a good example. He says she was NOT a drug addict, NOT promiscuous, and had her problems like all sensitive artists do, but was basically mentally stable. All of that is completely contrary to everything that is known and has been documented about Marilyn Monroe. He worships her; I guess that's why paints such a rosy picture of her.

I'm in my mid-late 50s

Roddy McDowall:

Lassie Come Home

Planet of the Apes

The Poseidon Adventure

SUPERSTAR!

I've posted here a few times in appreciation of Roddy but I have to say his presence —along with Carroll O'Connor's presence— and all those other elements contributed to making the film 'Cleopatra' a bit of a mess.

Infamy! Infamy! They've all got in fo' me!

R388, the films and television you no doubt associate with Carroll O'Connor (𝐴𝑙𝑙 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐹𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑦) and Roddy McDowall (the 𝑃𝑙𝑎𝑛𝑒𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐴𝑝𝑒𝑠 films) which make their presences in 𝐶𝑙𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑎𝑡𝑟𝑎 seem jarring, would have been unknown to its 1960 film audience.

To the extent that 𝐶𝑙𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑎𝑡𝑟𝑎 is something of a mess, it is for other reasons.

I found Roddy jarring in 'Cleopatra' because I KNOW that Liz and Dick chose the supporting casts for their films from their various friends, faghags and fellow-alcoholics.

I found Carroll O'Connor jarring because I couldn't figure out if Mankiewicz was trying to echo a similar role in his 1954 'Julius Caesar'. (The actor John Hoyt virtually repeated the same role in both movies).

Both of these films had a motley collection of well-spoken Englishmen and broad-voiced Americans playing Romans and Egyptians.

Ah, R391. That makes sense.

R379

How does that work?

RMD was born in 1928, and Anthony Perkins in 1932 thus a four year age gap which would mean even if the two attended same school they would be several grades apart. More to the point while Anthony Perkins is listed as alum of Buckingham Browne, can find no trace of any connection for Roddy McDowall.

Roddy McDowall arrived in USA as young teen and went straight to CA with his parents to be signed up first by Fox then moved to MGM, Education first took place at Fox studios but RMD graduated from University High School in West Los Angeles in 1947.

Later on as adults of course Roddy McDowall and Antony Perkins knew each other professionally and socially. RMD had Tony Perkins to his home on many occasions and even did a series of photo shoots.

Leaving aside Tony Perkins was Tab Hunter's property at least from 1956 for a few years, don't see any sort of liaison with RMD before or after ever happening. Occasional casual sex perhaps, but RMD was just not Tony Perkins type.

Jane Fonda, Tuesday Weld , Anthony Perkins, Rock Hudson, Lauren Bacall, Natalie Wood and Judy Garland in a 1965 Roddy McDowall home film.

GD Tony Perkins was one tall long cool drink of water!

On set "school houses" often house children of various ages. They do different schoolwork, of course. I'm not sure if Perkins started that young for it to be pertinent to him and McDowall.

I am the OP, and I demand Muriel to close this thread as it ran its course.

No, EYE am the OP!

R396

Muriel is programmed to respond only to grammatically correct requests. Clean up that sentence and try again.....

R395

Yes, one is aware for film and stage yes, often children of all ages/levels are grouped into one "school house" as it were; rather like private home tutoring of old. But Tony Perkins was from a northeast patrician family and had what could be considered standard "WASP" primary and secondary education. After HS Tony Perkins went first to Columbia then attended Rollins College in Florida. He was no where near Hollywood much less California far as education was concerned. Now maybe he did make fun of Roddy McDowall while at school or college the way people do of famous people; but don't think the two had met at that time.

TP didn't arrive in Hollywood until 1952/1953 to make his first film "The Actress" which bombed.

R394 The most fabulous behind the scenes look at the most glamorous stars of the day that will never come again. Roddy's home movies are priceless!

McDowall's legacy mostly consists of his early roles like the sentimental "How Green was My Valley" and oddities like Planet of the Apes. Not a great actor but remained employed. and his relationships probably helped.

The White Cliffs of Dover is a very wonderful film and a very bleak one. Roddy grows up to be Peter Lawford. Elizabeth Taylor grows up to be June Lockhart who is still with us. How is that for irony?

Interesting read about child stars and studio system of old Hollywood.

Clearly once that system ended not just Roddy McDowall but tons of others were left to fend for themselves, some like RMD were still young as in barely out of or still in their teens.

Roddy had been told at 17 his was "washed up" far as films were concerned and shown the door. This likely largely had to do with what happens to all children; they grow up....

However beautiful RMD was as a child, his looks as a teen young adult just weren't going to cut it for romantic lead roles. His acting skills were still on point, as demonstrated and testified to by those who worked with him later.

Worse all way round for Hollywood was the changes rocking entertainment world in 1960's and 1970's, including the huge threat by television. Films had to change to cope with the new and growing threats brought on by modern technology.

Roddy McDowall was great within his limited range of roles; but name one major motion picture (not Planet of the Apes) that RMD could have carried the lead from say 1960's through 1980's.

Everyone had to make do with what they could get; the handsome Rock Hudson joined a long line of "A" and even longer "B" list Hollywood film actors who made their living in whole or part via television. Between television, voice over, and occasional film RMD did rather well compared to some of his peers from studio system days. At least he didn't die in poverty and obscurity like many of the rest.

There’s nothing wrong with the grammar r394, miss r396

Roddy getting his simian on

I liked Roddy in the Planet of the Apes TV series. It lasted for 14 episodes in late 1974. Now on ME-TV at 5 am (Eastern) on Sunday mornings.

R405 Was so in my wank bank.

r394, thanks for the video.

The delicious Ed Rosenthal!

Polly Bergen at 1:54

Suzanne Pleshette at 3:00 hiding her adorable face.

Judy Garland at 5:15 (why is she dressed up?)

I still wanna know where Ed Rosenthal is today! Tell me!!!

Is there anybody in Hollywood from the 1930s to the 1990s that didn't work with Roddy? (Aside from M.)

Ed Rosenthal has the same prominent nose as Roddy (and John Gielgud) but he is prettier. He's wearing black speedos in another of those home movies.

I wonder why David O Selznick was at McDowell's party; his career was over in 1965.

R410

So was his life; David O. Selznick died 22 June 1965 barely three weeks after this home movie was made...

As for why he was at Roddy's house, again RMD knew everyone who mattered in Hollywood, and David O. Selznick certainly still counted.

I wish that someone could ID every single person in Roddy's videos.

The glimpse of Tony Perkins's nipples underneath his shirt make me crazy.

Selznick was still a giant in '65. Gone With the Wind was still considered the greatest and most popular film ever made and had two huge revivals in the decade. First in '61 to mark the beginning of the civil War and then in '67 when it was presented in wide screen and played 'first run' for a year in all the major cities before going on to general release. Astounding for a film close to 30 years old. Also Selznick made many other beloved films held in the memories of those who saw them initially and were frequently shown on TV.

Even very recently GWTW made the top 10 bestsellers when there was the possibility of it being pulled from distribution. 80 years later for generations removed from its initial release it still holds enormous fascination for a large general public.

All that young gorgeousness and Tony Perkins could sing as well!

Who said preppies can't dance, or don't have fashion sense?

What's the matter, R396? If you're no longer interested in this thread then just block/ignore or unclick the watcheye and move on. Does Muriel really need to be summoned?

That's a still image. It doesn't tell us that he could dance.

R416, evidently something's been said somewhere on this thread that OP wants destroyed.

Ed Rosenthal looks very much like the late actor Richard Ryder.

R393, How do you mean Roddy wasn't Tony's "type", in what sense? Tony was into Twinks, right? So why wouldn't Roddy be his type?

In Split Image it's stated that during the run of Tea and Sympathy he was dating a 24 year old Midwesterner, Columbian graduate student who just came out of the Army named as 'William'. He's described as being slim and boyishly pretty, which is exactly Tony Perkins type; Twinks. But this one was also extremely effeminate, to the point of parody, it seems. However that didn't deter Tony's interest in the guy.

Tony had introduced William to one of his old Browne and Nichols school chums, Henry Scammell, and he basically said it reminded him of the good ol' days of doing Roddy McDowall impersonations, "He was far more extravagant a parody of a gay man than anything Tony had ever contrived. He minced endlessly and flounced everywhere, and just whined and whimpered and did all the things Tony and I had done in parodying that kind of thing. I was so amazed that Tony would have a life with somebody like that."

Roddy was homely.

Grover Dale wasn't exactly a beauty...

Grover looks like a mouth breather in that pic lol

[quote]Tony was into Twinks, right?

What? No. Tony was in a relationship with Tab Hunter who was masc and a top.

Joan Rivers interviews Roddy on her show in 1989

R425 Great interview. So bright and cultured. He's a gem. Now wonder everyone wanted to work with him.

[Quote] Now wonder everyone wanted to work with him.

Wouldn't he have a better resume if that were the case?

^The book that is the subject of the interview, dear.

Tab Hunter was a top? GTFO.

R429 Yes, according to this anecdote by author Edmund White...

[quote]There’s a good deal of deep dish served as well, as White tells a few tales out of school. In the chapter titled, “My Blonds,” he discusses past lovers, who are either like, “Blake’s sword-wielding angels” or bed-bug crazy. There’s lots of Rabelaisian humor, as well, including a bawdy anecdote you won’t find in the recent prissy memoir, “Tab Hunter Confidential.” This involves White’s Aryan actor/room mate, Keith McDermott and his sexual “idyll” with “the still handsome Tab Hunter” who, once in the saddle, is overheard bellowing from the boudoir—“Go on boy, sit on that big Daddy dick!”

Tab topped them all.

Venetia Stevenson bearded for both Tab Hunter and Tony Perkins in Hollywood and when interviewed for the biopic, "Tab Hunter: Confidential" she described them as, "totally different. Tony was East Coast. Tab was West Coast. Tab was very macho. Tony was very sensitive, introvered."

I hope this planned project "Tab & Tony" happens...

Tony Perkins died of AIDS. Tab Hunter did not. You do the math.

Who the fuck needs a film about two self loathing chickens to chose to spend their entire working careers in the closet? Pieces of shit, both of them.

[quote]Tab topped them all.

Even I got a piece of that!

R434, How was Tab self loathing? He never went into a sham marriage, wasn't phobic of out gay men or other gay men in the industry. He seemed pretty secure enough in his sexuality, more of a "don't ask don't tell" type of guy. Also his career peaked in the 50s and by the mid 60s it was on the decline, had he had come out then he wouldn't have had a career at all.

Grover Dale wasn't a total dog; it seems much depended upon what angle camera caught.

He had height.

Antony Perkins wasn't self loathing; just that between what his mother did to him, and general pressures of being a (forced) closeted gay man of the time took a toll.

Tony Perkins by all accounts was a driven actor who kept a laser beam focus on his career; vocal, film and theater. He *might* have gotten away with being an out or at least known gay man on Broadway, but Hollywood was O-W-T out.

Like far too many other WASP men Tony Perkins upbringing or whatever resulted in a young man who had tons of emotional and mental baggage. When it came to homosexual sex this showed itself with an interest in kinky or bizarre sex. The man trolled around Times Square either looking for pick-ups or watching other men go at it in movie houses showing gay porn ....

Shut the fuck up, dear. There are witness accounts of Perkins etc. attending ex-gay gatherings with his wife.

r436 Even when his career hit the toilet she still chose to stay in the closet. Even when he made Lust in the Dust, he still chose to stay in the closet. Only when he had his dreary as fuck biography to push did he finally come out. Self loathing chicken shit.

I wouldn't say he was entirely chicken. He allowed a 1970s TV profile include the detail that he lived with his male secretary.

Tab Hunter admitted to being conflicted about his sexuality but he eventually came out and told his story in his 2005 memoir, "Tab Hunter Confidential: The Making of a Movie Star." He also married his partner of 30 years, producer Allan Glaser, in 2013. In 2015, Glaser produced a biopic based on Tab's memoir and they remained together until Hunter's death in 2018.

Tab Hunter's career was pretty much over by 1970's. He had a brief upswing in 1980's and that was it; thus it wasn't a huge deal for him to come out in 2005 or whatever.

At that point it was more about putting affairs in order including setting the record straight (instead of letting others do it after death).

Tab Hunter married his long term partner because by then it was an option previously unavailable. Nothing was stopping Mr. Hunter for much of those thirty-five years being with his partner from doing what many other gay men did; set up various trusts and other legal devices to ensure Mr. Glaser was protected.

So? All after his career was dead.

Did he do soap opera work in the 1980s?

R446

No, not unless you count Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman...., and that was late 1970's.

This was probably height of Tab Hunter's film career.

His autobio came out when someone else was writing a bio--his book hasmany ellipses, so you can figure out what the other book was going to "expose". OTOH years of his life and some relationships, like with his brother are covered superficially, at best. There was more to his story and I doubt is widower will tell us any more about it.

R425, great find on Daily Motion! Joan had two queens in a row on her show...Roddy, and then the Prince of Chintz making chair covers out of sheets. Roddy certainly was very well-spoken and knowledgeable...he corrected Joan on several points.

Had no idea Mario Buatta (the Prince of Chintz) was Italian-American from Staten Island, New York. West Brighton of all places, who knew?

At this point only one left who knows much of dirt worth telling is Grover Dale. To his credit (damn men with morals and high principals....), Mr. Dale has largely kept mum about Anthony Perkins and the rest, and shows no signs of doing any sort of tell all book or whatever.

Still one can hope; Mr. Dale is 85, so maybe the bug to write something will bite. That or perhaps his son will do so after his father's time, maybe with Grover Dale's permission.... Mostly everyone from that 1950's/1960's Hollywood/Broadway gay scene is gone now. Sondheim , George Chakiris, and perhaps a few more still with us, but they are mostly same age as Grover Dale.

^ That link has a picture of the 'West Side Story' creators (Griffith, Prince, Sondheim, Laurents, Bernstein, Robbins.)

All Jewish and all gay ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Grover Dale on FB talks of writing a memoir and has posted some excerpts. On a recent interview on the Behind the Curtain podcast, he alluded to his romantic relationship with Perkins. He's hardly hiding his sexuality—and married a man after Anita Morris died.

I think he was dreamy as a young man and must have had an amazing dancer's bod.

Grover Dale and that French musical were so strange

Grover Dale remains a widower after death of Anita Morris; cannot find a single bit of evidence he remarried anyone much less a man.

^. Don't trust IMDB as much as used to.

R453

Wonder if any of those names mentioned (including Grover Dale) had a fling with Larry Kert.

Grover Dale was in West Side Story wasn't he?

R457

That was just an example, there isn't anything on internet listing Grover Dale as having any other legal spouse other than his late wife. Only other name that consistently is connected to Grover Dale is Anthony Perkins (for obvious reasons).

Anita Morris has been gone since 1994 (sob, sob); did Grover take up with anyone else since? Only he knows....

Have to hand it to Mr. Dale, if you're a gay man and going to marry a woman, Anita Morris was about as good as one could get.

Is this Grover Dale partnering Dolores Gray from around 1:08?

R460

Think you mean 2:08 and no, that's not Grover Dale, but Mr. Jack Cassidy. Father of teen idol David Cassidy an once married to Shirley Jones (David is their child).

But since we're all girls here together on DL, Jack Cassidy apparently was bisexual, at least that is what David Cassidy revealed after his father's death. Shirley Jones also stated pretty much same.

More:

[Quote] Think you mean 2:08

No. Dolores dances with a man. I'm well aware of Jack Cassidy.

R463

You're right, and I owe you an apology....

Would have to say yes, that is Grover Dale, that nose and profile give game away. If it isn't Mr. Dale the guy looks very much like him.

It is Grover Dale.

[quote]Think you mean 2:08 and no, that's not Grover Dale, but Mr. Jack Cassidy. Father of teen idol David Cassidy an once married to Shirley Jones (David is their child).

Shirley Jones is not David Cassidy's mother.

Grover Dale has a hot son, doesn’t he?

I can’t stand Shirley Jones. Never thought she was a good actress. Her Oscar was a gift - everyone was so shocked that she shed her image as a perpetual virgin to play a hooker in ELMER GANTRY that they gave her an Oscar. Plus, it’s beyond creepy for a mother to brag about the size of her sons’ penises.

[quote]Jack Cassidy apparently was bisexual

Yeah, right!

The Cole Porter story about Jack Cassidy is disgusting. Maybe that fire was karma.

Shirley and husband stiffed a gay man dying of AIDS on the money they owed him for a portrait.

Somebody up thread said Roddy couldn't do comedy or wasn't good at it?

I thought he did pretty well on The Carol Burnett Show.

Except, r456, Grover's FB page indicates that he's married to Marc Elliott. Sorry, but you're wrong.

[quote]No, not unless you count Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman...., and that was late 1970's.

And only after Louise Lasser bailed.

R472

That is interesting as there isn't any other mention elsewhere on internet that Grover Dale is married to anyone other than Anita Morris. It isn't on any of his bio pages I found, nor mentioned on Mr. Dale's Wiki or IMDb page.

Don't have a FB account so cannot see beyond Grover Dale's landing page, but there isn't a mention of a husband there either. Am not joining FB just for this, so will take your word.

However plugging in Marc Elliot produces the following.

R471

RMD probably could do a comedy skit; but don't believe carrying an entire film or television show as lead would work out. Other than Carol Burnett did Roddy McDowall do any other comedy on television, film or even stage?

Roddy had the comedic lead in the film Lord Love a Duck, opposite Tuesday Weld, supported by Harvey Korman and Ruth Gordon. One of my all-time favorite films.

434 -What the fuck are you on about? In the 1950s being gay was against the law, and you piss and moan because some actors of the time weren't out and proud??? You're a fucking idiot.

Roddy was in a bizarre "teen comedy" called "Lord Love A Duck." It co-starred Tuesday Weld. I remember seeing some of it on tv and thinking "what IS this shit?" But apparently it's a cult movie now.

Roddy could have been Robin to someone's Batman in the 1950s, even into the early 1960s.

Lord Love a Duck (based on the novel by Al Hine) is a satire of 60s obsessions: B-movie stars, beach films, youth culture, religion, class... The satire is so broad that at times it can seem scattershot, but if you go with the flow it's a lot of fun with great performances from all the leads. A thirty-something Roddy McDowall playing a high school kid is a bit much -But he wins out.

The link is for the first half of the movie -The rest is on YouTube.

Roddy's face isn't even on the movie poster. Was he a last minute replacement for someone who was "hot" at the time?

It looks like an episode of "Batman." Why was it shot in b/w?

It's there -just tiny. He's driving the bulldozer under Ruth Gordon.

Pic.

Roddy McDowell's role in The Grass Harp (1995) with an all-star cast was comic. Whilst the film itself is primarily a drama it has some comic characters of which Roddy's gossipy barber is one of them.

[quote] Plus, it’s beyond creepy for a mother to brag about the size of her sons’ penises.

R467 Her memoir is bawdy and yeah, she boasts about Jack Cassidy's and his sons' endowments. In David's case, it's apparent.

[quote] The Cole Porter story about Jack Cassidy is disgusting. Maybe that fire was karma.

True, but where was Cole’s dignity and self-worth? He could have bought and sold a nobody like Jack Cassidy. Instead he chooses to chase him around on his hands and knees? Cassidy was a cruel, sadistic man, but why would Cole subject himself to such humiliation?

[Quote] why would Cole subject himself to such humiliation?

Why did Quentin Crisp dream of the Great Dark Man?

Now, now, some people enjoy role-playing in which they're humiliated mercilessly by a much younger, hotter, horse-hung stud.

[Quote] horse-hung

Verifcatia?

I feel enormously luck to have seen Morris in Nine especially because she was still in it when I finally saw it with Sergio Franchi. And it was great seeing him in the 46th Street Theater because Do I Hear a Waltz was legendary to me. The photo on the back cover of the album which I had seen as a boy in record stores(couldn't afford it) with Franchi gazing up at Elizabeth Allen as she sings summed up all the glamour and beauty of Broadway in my boyish daydreaming brain with just two people.

Dale is beautiful and spectacular dancing in Molly Brown and Sixpence. What a shame there's so little of him.

And in He's My Friend he's wearing red socks and Gus Trikonis's dickey pops out because the shot is red hot and everyone's on fire and they can't stop. Be still my heart. Is this the best dance number on film or is it One Alone from Deep In My Heart?

[quote]R391 I found Roddy jarring in 'Cleopatra' because I KNOW that Liz and Dick chose the supporting casts for their films from their various friends, faghags and fellow-alcoholics.

It wasn't one of "their" films, they were not together until they were making the film. She may have recommended or asked for Roddy but it was a 20th Century-Fox film, Darryl Zanuck was still in charge of the studio and he was the producer of Roddy's first film, How Green Was My Valley, and had also cast Roddy in his production The Longest Day in 1962. As for Carroll O'Connor, he gives a good performance, maybe people are unable to see him as anyone other than Archie.

David O. Selznick had a house in Malibu, he was married to a younger woman, Jennifer Jones, they hung out with this crowd.

In the documentary, Tab Hunter: Confidential, Tab he says his relationship with Tony cooled off when he (Tab) had done the Jimmy Piersall baseball bio, Fear Strikes Out on TV, on the anthology show, Climax. He got good reviews and told Tony he hoped he would be making the movie version. Tony then went to Paramount where he had a contract and proposed they make it with him (Tony), which they did. He sounds like a shit.

Judging from the doc and the personalities of some of the exes interviewed, it seemed to me Tab was a top.

Was Roddy a Fox contract player for twenty years?

R493 No. Joe Mankiewicz wasn't under contract to Fox any more, either, neither was Rex Harrison, and I don't think Richard Burton was, either. But they - and Roddy - all had been. Zanuck did seem to like working with actors who had been in Fox films. Henry Fonda, Robert Wagner, Richard Todd, Richard Burton, Eddie Albert and Roddy in The Longest Day, for ex.

Rex Harrison did lots of Fox movies also.

And still for the film of MFL he was third choice. Cukor seems to have been excited by the idea of O'Toole doing it. But they couldn't come to terms? Who turns down a movie like that because it doesn't pay enough? You would think actors would pay to be in it.

^ The more I hear about O'Toole, the more I'm convinced he was a fool as well as a drunk.

A wife-abusing fool and a constant drunk. His 'Hamlet' at the National Theatre was disaster for all concerned.

Some people can carry the public's projection. Others, it destroys.

R492

Things often aren't easy in a relationship where you have two performing artists making up the couple, especially same sex where it can lead to both men (or women) going after same parts or whatever.

Anthony Perkins was very driven when it came to his professional career; Tab Hunter knew or should have known this; or at least he soon found out but sadly the hard way. tThere is talk that Tab Hunter showed up on set while Fear Strikes Out was being filmed to visit is "friend" Tony Perkins. Apparently Mr. Hunter got a "chilly reception" from other cast members, so he upped and left. If this is true what's up with that?

R425 - too bad Joan didn't insist that Roddy show the audience his prowess at auto-fellatio. I guess they just ran out of time.

I wonder if Roddy ever gave blow jobs to those two good looking HUNKS James Naughton and Ron Harper from the tv series Planet of the Apes (1974).

Bump for a great man ! His beach parties were the best

[quote] Even Doris Day, Fred Astaire, Burt Lancaster, Robert Mitchum and Ginger Rogers didn't get it.

Roddy stated acting in films as a child. Made his film debut in the UK in 1938 when he was 10 years old. Moved to the US and starred as the lead character in How Green Was My Valley, which won the Academy Award for Best Motion Picture in 1941.

Roddy was a distinguished actor by age 13.

He went in to star in films, tv and on Broadway. Not too shabby.

To us Baby Boomers he was as familiar as Walter Cronkite or Ed Sullivan……he was somebody who was in our lives since we could remember. To my mother’s generation he was a child actor but to us he was iconic as the astronaut who got caged by aliens in Twilight Zone. He played murderous villains in shows from Batman to Columbo to Night Gallery to Fantasy Island.

He starred in the original campy Planet of the Apes, which was funny to us because it was a reverse role from his captured Twilight Zone astronaut. He had a sci fi career, a career as a voice actor and a career as a celebrity photographer. .

He began collecting movies and television shows well before the days of VCRs and was raided by the FBI. You remember those FBI warnings that used to appear on VHS tapes telling you about illegally recording or reproducing films? That’s why he was raided. But he was never charged with anything

Roddy McDowell was part of the furniture of mid-to-late 20th century film & tv. He was familiar to at least 4 generations.

What an absolutely beautiful tribute that is so heartfelt r503 ☝🏼💯❤️💯💕