Did King George V ever get criticized for rescinding Czar Nicholas II and Czarina Alexandra/their kids' asylum?

Yawwwnnnn.

This has been discussed several times in the royal threads especially the one on the Romanovs.

I know, you had to find something you could use to sling mud at the Windsors, pet.

But this one's been done. Keep up!

OP - I’ve been around DL for many years and while it’s likely been discussed, I don’t recall ever seeing a thread on this. I think it sounds fascinating and DL is always full of juicy historic tidbits about stuff like this. I hadn’t realized the two families knew one another or were related. I’d love to know more though.

As for Countess Cunt’rina at R3, let us all partake in a royal F&F of her. She appears to have made a nuisance of herself in other threads as well and deserves the imperial heave-HO!

I thought it was Queen Mary who told George not to give them asylum?

It's all in the booklet darling. He let the Dowager Empress in.

You seem to think they had todays press in 1914. No one would have 'bashed' him in the press. The press did not wield the power then that it does today. Even now certain liberties are taken in the press to protect certain members of the royal family, in Britain at least.

R4 Alexandra was a granddaughter of Victoria

The Romanovs even visited Victoria with their first born baby shortly before she died

Nicholas and George used to write letters to each other back and forth

the only one to survive was their cocker spaniel. The other 2 dogs were shot, along with their attendants

posing together

with their sons

[quote] No one would have 'bashed' him in the press.

The press bashed the monarchy plenty back then. How critical parts of the press were about the Widow of Windsor; the Republican movement in the UK was doing very well.

But in this case, the war was still on and the press were generally supportive of the government formed in the King-Emperor's name.

Romanovs with Victoria

It was Lord Stanfordham, the King's PS and also noted as the person who suggested the name change to Windsor, who insisted that the Tsar and his family not be granted asylum in Great Britain. The Tsar was seen as a tyrant and they didn't want to risk inflaming the opinions of Britons against the monarchy!

The Tsar was very handsome.

Also interesting to note Lizzie's hubby Philip is related to the Romanovs through both his mother and father's sides

so the Romanov connection will never go away as long as the Windsors are in the palace

R6 There's so much in it, it's more like a book

It was a secret and Nicky’s mother Maria who lived in London before moving to Denmark probably didn’t know the king refused to take Imperial Family in. Maria was a strong passionate woman and she would have reacted very strongly if she had known,

Nicholas was related to George because her mother’s sister was married to George. Alix was Victoria’s grand daughter and George’s cousin, too like Nicholas was.

Also, OK had the details of his first sentence backwards. George was related to the Tsar through his mother, and Alexandra through his father, Edward the King.

- R16

The Queen is related to the Romanovs via Queen Victoria (Tsarina Alexandra's grandmother) and Queen Alexandra (the Tsar's aunt). Phil is related in his own way R18.

It is a pity that George and Stamfordham couldn't find a corner of the Empire in which to stash Nicholas and Alexandra. I have a feeling South Africa was mentioned but everything seemed to reach a stalemate not least because the Tsar did not wish to leave mother Russia. The Windsor court could have made more of an effort perhaps least as the Tsarevich's Haemophilia came via Queen Victoria.

There is an excellent British tv mini series, old but good, called Edvard VII, it was made in 1975 and has 13 episodes. It begins when Victoria is young queen and ends when Bertie dies. Lots of European royals in the show. It was on youtube few months ago.

Watch this! Pt 1 of 4

Irrelevant R24.

Nothing new at R25's link.

R26 So sorry. I try to be more relevant in the future. (Nicky Alix and Minnie have their storylines, too.)

Nothing new to you and me, R27, but maybe new to others!

R12 shows George holding Alexei. David stands next to Nicholas. George threw Nicholas and his family under a bus. Nicholas would have done the same. These people were dynasts; dead cousins en route had been very normal for a thousand years already.

So much inbreeding.

Pedantic poster coming through! Nicholas was the son of Empress Marie (née Princess Dagmar of Denmark). Marie's sister was Queen Alexandra (née Princess Alix of Denmark), and Alexandra was the mother of King George V with her husband, King Edward VII, the son of Queen Victoria. George V and Nicholas II were first cousins because their mothers were sisters.

Empress Alexandra (née Princess Alix of Hesse) was the daughter of Princess Alice of Great Britain, the next younger sister of King Edward VII. She and George V were first cousins because her mother and his father were siblings.

And your point is R32?

[quote] So much inbreeding

You should know Alabama.

Just dawned on me that Phil turned 99 last month without any fanfare at all!

[quote] So much inbreeding

There was the madness of King George; the hemophilia which came from where (no one seems to know). Apart from that, these families didn't marry within the prohibited degrees of consanguinity and the problems they had since the fall of the Roman Empire (when they came into their own) have been relatively slight.

I only wanted their Faberge eggs, i wasn't interested in them

R4 - Obviously, you're either lying or poor at research:

"Let's discuss the House of Romanov! Each daughter of Czar Nicholas II and Alexandra Feodorovna more beautiful than the last. Rasputin! Terrible fate not fully resolved until 1980s. Funeral and burial in 1990s. Striking likeness to existing BRF members. Russian Crown jewels and their whereabouts. Site of their execution extant until 1977 (Ipatiev House) when Yeltsin (under pressure) ordered it demolished - and regretted it in his memoirs. Have at it DL - GO!"

Thread opened on 5 May 2020.

You were saying?

R4 - Oh, and the House of Romanov thread closed at 599 posts, on 10 June 2020 you know, about five weeks ago? Below is the last one:

"Of the Bourbons it was said "They had learned nothing and forgotten nothing."

"Nuisances" are usually people who tell inconvenient truths.

Like calling out people who say the topic of George V and his Russian cousins has never come up on DL.

I dunno, I keep blocking you and seem to turn up again - multiple accounts, pet?

George was feeling pressure at home. His family was German, I believe, so the monarchy in England was already viewed with suspicion by the people. (And why he changed the name of the family to Windsor.)

He felt that letting in the Tsar and his family would be seen as helping foreign countries. Plus no one though the Tsar and family would be killed

The Romanovs had relatives in several other royal houses in Europe, all of whom were afraid of the same thing that the British one did and so didn't lift a finger, either. The Tsarina was German and anti-German sentiment was high due to the war (hence the transformation of Saxe Coburg Gotha to Windsor), and the UK public called Nicholas "Bloody Nicholas".

While the UK government led by David Lloyd George initially gave its approval to the offer to bring the Romanovs out, it almost immediately thought better of it.

George V perhaps could have argued more forcefully or acted more quickly, but in the end everyone saw the handwriting on the wall: sheltering the Romanovs was a huge risk to any monarchies that did so, risked a movement growing around them for restoration to the Russian throne, and antagonising the new Russia, which no one wanted to do.

The Romanovs were doomed. Blaming George V for their deaths is to overlook the many other complications that kept the Romanov's relatives in the Danish, Swedish, Spanish, and Norwegian monarchies from sheltering them, as well.

It was over.

The suit he's wearing in r15 is absolutely divine!

George V never took any "heat" publicly because Lloyd George took the blame for rescinding offer of asylum to the Nicholas II and his family.

Furthermore there was a large and growing sentiment against "Bloody Nicholas" in GB with many feeling the Tsar got what he deserved (being pushed off his throne). It was this growing socialist feeling that worried royalists, Parliament and others; in end it did prompt George V to go along with getting rid of his German name and host of other things related to his family's connections with Germany.

Besides no one could have foretold government of Alexander Fyodorovich Kerensky would fall, and that mad man Lenin along with his followers would take over. That is what doomed Nicholas II, Alexandra, the children and every other Romanov Bolsheviks could lay hands upon.

It wasn't until well after news began arriving all over Europe (and world) that Lenin had executed the Tsar, wife and family that some began pointing fingers at George V, and or at least his government. They said things like HM "sold the Romanovs down that mineshaft in Yekaterinburg"

If a bitch can't come bearing gifts, then a bitch can't come! Royalty 101, sucka!

[quote]The UK monarchy is as dirty as any of the others

As opposed to what, being Disney princesses? WTF is wrong with you people who worship these filthy families who are only in power specifically due to the evil things they've done over generations.

r43, I believe that’s the Blues and Royals frock-coat uniform. Harry wore it on his wedding day.

R42 antagonising the new Russia, which no one wanted to do.

Many people including Churchill wanted to strangle the Bolshevik baby in its cradle, hence the Intervention. The Japs even invaded from the East.

What are the floppy bits called on front of the frock coat?

it is quite interesting that the revolution fever didn't fully spread outside Russia. In the end the Windsors and the other inbred spoiled families were just fine. Just their cousins and children were executed, no biggie!

[quote] the revolution fever didn't fully spread outside Russia

It went far enough. There were revolutions in the German Empire and in the Austo-Hungarian Empire in some cases leading to soviet republics there.

R50 - So, you believe they weren't remotely distressed, just because it wasn't them?

Jesus.

R50

Are you serious? How many royal families of Europe still sat on thrones after WWI?

If Tsar Nicholas II could take any solace in his grave it would be that Kaiser Wilhelm II too was forced off this throne.

Wilhelm II and his family were not murdered R53.

It reminds one of the worst excesses of the French Revolution. And I presume you know what that unfortunate movement led to?

Yeah R55, go back a bit and you find the English Revolution 1640–1660. The King was put to death in public in 1649.

Put to death in public? Well how rude.

Nicholas and Alexandra doomed their children, and themselves. They should've taken a lesson from the Bourbons

As opposed to murdered on the quiet R57.

Today marks 102 years since their murders.

RIP

R58

What lesson would that be then? Louis XVI and his queen Marie-Antoinette were both judicially murdered by the French Revolution. Their young son Louis XVII (upon his father's death), was horribly abused and either murdered or death by neglect. Marie Thérèse of France was only survivor of those horrors but was scared for life.

Even when the Bourbons were restored they learned absolutely nothing from previous events and didn't last very long.

R62 the lesson: get your kids out while you can.

R63

Before that rabble arrived at Versailles there was plenty of time for the king, and his family to flee. Lord knows other nobles, and even members of Bourbon family such as "Mesdames Tantes" did so. Louis XVI would not flee, but urged his queen to leave and take their children; Marie-Antoinette wouldn't hear of it, so that was that.

Things weren't going that badly for Louis XVI and his family after being dragged back to Paris by that mob; it was flight to Varennes that changed things. After that abortive attempt at fleeing (everything that could go wrong, did), things became very dark and ominous for king and his wife/family.

We've had this discussion previously to extent it's like beating a dead horse.

It is impossible to imagine today how very insular Nicholas II and Alexandra were with their family. That entire immediate Romanov clan was rarely separated, and spend most of their time shut up in various imperial residences. Extended Romanov family in general were a very close and loving group, and there were complaints that grew louder over years from within family that Alexandra "kept" his sisters, brothers, and other family members from seeing the Tsar.

While yes, Nicholas II couldn't just pick up and leave for extended visits to family members abroad, Alexandra and the grand duchesses could have done so. Indeed royal ladies like other wealthy women of the time often packed up and made extended visits to family and friends all over Europe. What happened rarely before Alexi was born all but ceased after the young heir's health problem manifested itself. Nicholas and Alexandra threw themselves into keeping that state secret quite close. Unlike their cousins George V and Queen Mary there was no question of shutting away Alexi like they did with Prince John.

Going on international visits even to other royal courts would have caused tonuges to wag (as they did on the limited trips N&A did make outside of Russia with their family) as to why the child is carried everywhere. Why isn't he allowed to run and play like other little boys? Why is that manservant constantly present? And really Alexandra why do you hover over that boy so much?

In short as wont to happen then and even today, people got tired of hearing "no" from N&A to invitations for visits, so they stopped asking.

It also must be repeated again that the empress simply wasn't that popular with extended Romanov family or other royals (including her own relations). People just saw Alexandra as a stuck-up hysteric whose husband loved her more than was proper.

Clip from British television drama "Prince John" though plays fast and lose with historical accuracy sums up what most thought at time of N&A and many still do today. He was weak as water, she was a high riding bitch.

Nicholas and Alexandra spoke to one another in English as she couldn't speak Russian well if at all and he didn't speak German well. That may have changed later.

R65 Many good points. Alix was unpopular even with close family, her mother in law couldn’t understand her at all. About the video clip, I wouldn’t take it as good evidence what kind of woman Alix was.

Alix was the boss of Nicholas.

You have to wonder why he was so enchanted with her when they first met when nobody else was a big fan.

R69

I have to tell you?

The heart wants what it wants....

Geo V wrote in his diary about the dominating nature of Alix over Nicholas.

R69 What are you talking about Prince Eddy was madly in love with his cousin Alix and was devastated when she turned him down and instead got engaged to Nicky. Eddy had to settle for Mary of Teck but they were only engaged for a few months before he died.

I thought Eds was gay.

Call it guilt or what you will, but George V got religion and dispatched royal navy to rescue "Aunt Minne" and what was left of the Romanovs in Russia.

That love fest didn't last very long as HM soon became rather fed up with his Russian cousins. The king flat out told one grand duke to his face "you are only here because of me..." or words to that affect.

The Dowager Empress went back to Denmark after having been rescued by the Royal Navy. Hopefully she wasn't too much of a burden on George V.

R73 I am sure he was but he definitely wanted Alix to be his queen.

Alix's sister was also murdered by the Bolsheviks. Did George V get criticized for failing to save her?

R75 She stayed in England for a while. She had some difficulties with the king of Denmark but later it was fine. R77 Her sister’s death was horrible, too. She and some Romanov men were thrown to weill and the bolsheviks put a bomb there. Ella survived and was alive for some time. She tried to rescue the men and people in the area heard her singing but were too afraid of helping her because bolsheviks could have killed them, too. R74 I’ve read it was a demand from his wife, Minnie’s sister to rescue her.

"She had some difficulties with the king of Denmark but later it was fine."

And how.....

King of Denmark dispatched a courtier to inform Dowager Empress that it was HM's wish that HIH economize with electrical use as prior months bills had been excessive. Empress Marie summoned her footman and gave orders for every single light in the place to be turned on....

R79 You’re right I was wrong. Kristian strongly disliked her aunt. I just thought things got better when she moved out of Royal Palace. She moved to Hvidøre, a place she and her sister (queen of England) had bought and spent lots of time together. Thanks R79 I searched and found more info about this.

”King Christian X took every opportunity to humiliate the dowager empress. Once he accused his aunt of pawning some objet d'arts at Amalienborg, earning the ire of the long-suffering lady. One night in 1920, she and her daughter, Grand Duchess Olga, were at their sitting room when the king’s footman entered their apartment. “His Majesty has sent me over to ask you to switch off all these lights,” the footman said. “His Majesty said to mention to you that the electricity bill he had to pay recently was excessive.” Marie Feodorovna “paled” and gave the royal servant a cold stare. With the footman standing still, she called for her own servant, demanding that he “light the palace from cellar to attic.”

The waste of electricity is unforgivable.

R80 Christian X really pinged.

Ch X was obviously a patriot.

"During the German occupation of Denmark, Christian become a popular symbol of resistance, particularly because of the symbolic value of the fact that he rode every day through the streets of Copenhagen unaccompanied by guards."

He was also King of Iceland.

There was only a small window of opportunity for Nicholas II and family to get out of Russia. Basically it was period immiedaly after the Tsar abdicated and was on those trains back to Tsarsko Selo.

As mentioned over and over again a series of missteps, miscalculations, blunders and down right stupidity allowed things to play out the way they did for N&A along with family.

At start of war (or soon after) Nicholas II had urged Alexandra to take the children and go to another imperial residence far from Saint Petersburg. Alexandra refused, and once Tsar made her head of government when he left to take over command at the front (two stupid moves right there), she couldn't leave.

Then the imperial children all came down with measles, this just as revolution was breaking out. Alexandra would not allow her children to be moved, so that was that. The rest as they say is history.

All of the grand duchesses and even sickly Alexi could have been sent to Finland from Saint Petersburg where Romanovs had a little used palace. After revolution of course Finland declared itself independent from Russia, but by then or soon after Romanov children and whoever else was with them could have gone on to Sweden or Denmark.

Smartest thing to do was join Dowager Empress, other members of Romanov family, and whoever else making their way to Crimea.

Alix and Nicky, too stupid to live.

[quote] Before that rabble arrived at Versailles there was plenty of time for the king, and his family to flee. Lord knows other nobles, and even members of Bourbon family such as "Mesdames Tantes" did so. Louis XVI would not flee, but urged his queen to leave and take their children; Marie-Antoinette wouldn't hear of it, so that was that.

The first emigration was just after the 14th of July. On the night between the 16 and 17th the King's youngest brother, the Comte of Artois flew France for Italy. The Polignac clan (the Comtesse, her husband, her supposed lover, and her sister in law) run away that night. Almost all the ministers of the government flew in the following days. Some of "princes de sang" such as the Condés also emigrated.

Mesdames Tantes (Victoria and Adelaide were alive at the time), the king's other brother Comte of Provence and the king's sister Madame Elisabeth stayed.

Victoria and Adelaine left for Rome on February 1791. They were stopped during the journey

Provence left France on the same day of the Varennes flight (June 1791). He successfully reached Netherlands His lesbian wife left that same day. They traveled separately.

Madame Elizabeth was part of the Varennes flight and was then guillotined in May 1794.

The son died in June 1795 while still in imprisoned at the Temple's Tower.

The daughter was exchanged with Austria in exchange of some French prisoners (including Jean-Baptiste Drouet who was the postmaser in Varennes and recognized the Royal Family during their escape and stopped them) at the end of the 1795.

In 1797, under the Directoire, a decree orded all the Bourbons to leave the lands of France. Only 3 were left there and alive: Bathilde of Orleans (sister of the Duke of Orleans, who backed the Revolution, voted for the King's death and then was guillotined himself), Marie-Adélaïde de Bourbon (widow of the Duke of Orleans) and Louis François Joseph, Prince of Conti. They were sent to Barcelona.

OP, the Czar was polarizing, the Windsors were trying to rebrand themselves during this anti-German period. Brining more German (by blood) royals into the country was just bad politics.

No one would have refused the princesses OP. It's their parent's fault. They should have sen their daughters away with a pile of cash, gold, and jewels. Bought them a manor house and flats in London, where they could wait out the troubled times in Russia. Their daughters would have easily married very well. I could see one ending up in the royal family, and that'd be that. The Czar's son was too sick to leave so he would have gone down with the ship.

The Shah of Iran was smart enough to leave town before he faced a firing squad. They only left with only .001% of their wealth, $60 million. Their lifestyle looks very average so who knows how much money they really have. The Empress is treated well thanks to the French paying for her security and I think her beautiful apartment. Her son's home in DC is a simply McMansion that an upper-middle-class doctor could afford. The oldest son appears to be living a very nice life so I assume they have loads of money.

Op, the Czar wasn't going anywhere. No one wanted to make an enemy out of Russia. But if they played their cards right their daughters could have left in style rather than get molested by peasant soldiers then shot to death. This is how royal should leave their country. Fabulous.

The Windsors all stashed money away in offshore accounts. Their position is solid but thangs can quickly change. The Shah had a 90% approval rating 6-months before he was overthrown.

R87 Alexei was fine when revolution hit. He became very ill in Tobolsky.

The Shah was a stooge for the CIA. But for whatever reason, the CIA turned on him and he was out.

R45

Please!

Queen Mary by various devices and means got her cold mitts on sizable amounts of Romanov jewels.

"But the bitterest pill must surely have been the reappearance of her own jewelry, confiscated from her by 
the Bolsheviks. In the early 1920s, pieces from her collection began to appear in London. On one painful occasion, Queen Mary produced a pink onyx Fabergé box designed to hold cards for patience, and asked Xenia what she thought of it. Xenia replied: "That used to be on my writing desk." Queen Mary, who was known for her acquisitive nature and not one 
to understand the concept 
of restitution, replaced the box in a cabinet without further comment."

[quote] I know the Romanov's were hated at the time by the Russian public and probably weren't good people but the kids didn't have to die and neither did their dogs.

I’m not sure what it is about this sentence but it has had me cracking up for a good ten minutes.

Dowager Empress Marie saw her son Nicholas II for the last time just after he abdicated. It was a brief encounter and the ex-Tsar went on his way back to Saint Petersburg (presumably), while Empress Marie headed for her palace in Crimea.

It is a foolish mother that doesn't know her own children, and Empress Marie had her son's number in spades. She tried, lord knows HIM spoke to Nicholas expressly and in great detail about things he didn't want to hear, especially when it came to Alexandra.

What everyone else saw coming was rather a shock to Nicholas and Alexandra when the Tsar was removed. Worse how situation changed literally overnight. One day Alexandra was doing the telling, the next people were telling her what to do.

To end of her days it tormented Empress Marie that the revolution and all that went with it could be laid a the feet of Nicholas and Alexandra.

I am aware of that fact, R90. There was discussion some years ago that the present Queen took care not to wear any of the jewels/tiara acquired by Queen Mary while she was in Russia due to their provenance. I was just trying to humor the thread with my post. Your knowledge is impressive.

- R45

Queen Mary was a cunt and she hated Alix. The only reason Mary was Queen was because Alix turned down Prince Eddy. If Alix picked Eddy, she would have ended up with George V after Eddy kicked the Bucket.

Didn’t the Romanov girls contract the measles too, which affected their ability to travel?

R92 She blamed Alix on everything. It wasn’t Alix’s fault but she played a part in it. Maria tried to help and advice Alix how to behave as an Empress but Alix didn’t listen. She outed Maria totally from Nicholas’ life. They met in the train. Maria traveled with her private train to meet Nicholas who was in his private train and they met had lunch dinner and breakfast, a day and a half maybe. When they first met they were left alone and when someone came in later Nicholas was quietly smoking and Maria was sobbing. Maria was said to be hysterical when she heard about revolution and abdication. She knew something bad was coming and talked about it to many people.

Romanovs were surprised Nicholas gave up so easily. Riots were not unusual. Tsars and Empresses usually sent cossacks to deal with the situations. It had been usual reaction for centuries. Nicholas I began his time as a ruler by stilfing a serious uproar next to Winter Palace. Ruling Russia was not easy and usually Tsars were hated but respected because they were ruthless. If Tsar was unsuitable to his role someone began Palace revolution and more suitable person took over. Nicholas simply didn’t have those qualities and he gave up without a fight.