Have you ever been to China?

No but I know people who have. From their descriptions it’s a dump but really good cheap food! People spit all over the place, are rude, cut in line....etc....lots of pollution too!

I was supposed to go on vacation last October with friend. But we had a falling out and neither of us went.

it's sad because it was for 10 days and it included four day cruise in the Yangtze River we were going to visit Seattle square, the great Wall of China, terracotta warriors of Xi'an.

I’ve met a lot of Chinese people and they seem glad to have left. I went to school with a guy who married a Chinese woman and all she could talk about was the pollution. Green and red rivers and such.

[quote] Seattle square

?

*Tiananmen Square NOT Seattle Lol

[quote] *Tiananmen Square NOT Seattle Lol

Auto-correct was way off.

Yes.

As you described: grey-skies, pollution, dirty, smelly and often offensive behavior (spitting, hitting, voiding/emptying bowels in public places, changing dirty diapers on food tables and leaving them in restaurants, public spaces littered, etc.,etc.)

Not a fan.

After this virus spread from Wuhan and the offensive personal hygiene they demonstrated; I would be happy to never return to China nor have anything whatsoever to do with it.

Given the disdain for human life I observed while living there, I really think the country should be shunned for initiating and hiding the impacts of a deadly disease that has had significant global repercussions.

Fuck China! they have a dog meat festival where tens of thousands of dogs are eaten!!!!

FUCK THEM!!!!!!1

A great country with incredible potential!

I’ve been to China, but I’ve never been to me.

[quote] I’ve been to China, but I’ve never been to me.

Is it near the Isle of Greece?

Gina? I LOVE GIna! We are best friends!

Amazing what they have done, both the good and the bad.

I've been the mainland, but only as a day trip on holiday in Hong Kong.

I'm 6'3" and with red / light brown hair. We went to a park during a public holiday for the birthday of significant Chinese official, and I was mobbed. All these people wanted their photo taken with me, and gave me their babies to hold. It was one of the weirdest experiences of my life. When we went back to the minibus they all came chasing after our party like we were pop stars.

I wish I could have visited pre-pollution/industrialized China. I still would like to see the Great Wall, rural countryside, Three Gorges Dam (marvel of engineering), and Tibet (free Tibet!).

R15 Isn’t there heavy flooding near that dam right now? People are saying it could collapse?

Here’s a cool documentary on the Three Gorges Dam. Such a feat of engineering it’s amazing!

The Chinese have been masters of water management and engineering for 3000 years.

I have (Guangzhou, Beijing, and Xi'an) and I would again. Often great (if not exactly five star) food, interesting history, lots of sights.

One has to put up with the barbarian hordes and the CCP to experience all that, but such is life.

I'd like to see the terracotta warriors. I also realize that China is a massive country (about the same as the U.S.) , so seeing all of these sites in one trip would be not be feasible.

R17, thanks for that. Amazing. Would love to see it in person. Guess I'm a nerd that way -- I loved seeing Hoover Dam and the Panama Canal (strongly recommended).

I’m curious about how it compares to the US or Europe. They seem to exceed the West in technology, infrastructure, and natural beauty. Is that how it feels, or is it about framing?

If you consider filth, repression and fear in China as “exceeding” other countries, then have at it, R21.

They are looking for “good citizens” like yourself who are awed by their (surveillance) “technology, infrastructure and natural beauty”.

Yeah, I am not naive to that - not am I interested in signing up. The social credit system sounds particularly creepy. London and especially New York lag behind and I was just curious. Way to lash out, r22.

once when a kid in the early eighties, entirely communistic in appearance and outlook, what I see of china today is as unrelated as the dark side of the moon

I have no desire to visit China, or that other second world shithole, India.

You may perceive it as “lashing out”, R23; but it’s one thing to praise China for its “exceeding technology, infrastructure and natural beauty from the outside”.

It’s another thing to live it on the inside.

R21 they have money and they are not afraid of spending. Any airport in China shows how little infrastructure investment is being done in the US.

[quote] e, the great Wall of China, terracotta warriors of Xi'an.

I would love to see the soldiers as well. Did you know Emperor Xi was responsible for the initial building of the Great Wall? He was incredibly ambitious and quite ruthless.

I would visit Japan. China, Fuck no!

R28, the red-haired Tarim mummies of Xinjiang would be worth a visit. But as they're in the Uyghur Autonomous Region, I'm not sure if one requires a special permit to travel there.

I would like to see the hanging coffins in Sichuan.

I went to China on a tour this past December. My brother had mentioned a flu was going around and I brushed it off. Thankfully nothing happened. In any case, I left very impressed of how modern the infrastructure is - this is no shithole. I’m not a fan of their politics, aggressions, arrogance, etc ..

I spent three months in the PRC back in the 80s, just prior to the Tiananmen Square uprising. I saw a few buses of tourists in most places, but only four or five cars in Beijing. Back then it was wall-to-wall bicycles. I understand there are much better restaurant and hotel options now, but I'm glad I got to see China before the pollution got so bad. I visited every province except Tibet (which was closed to foreigners), and stayed in most of the major cities. The land was extraordinarily beautiful, and he people were friendly and very curious about outsiders. The trains were horribly crowded and uncomfortable -But I discovered that internal flights were even worse. They used old Russian cast-off planes, and loaded them from the back with fold-out jump seats to eliminate the aisle. No bathrooms or water -and no emergency exits. My seatback was broken and laying in the lap of the person behind me. I was standing, trying to fix it, when the plane took off! At least in those days, travel in China was very much an adventure!

I had to work in Beijing for three weeks in 2018. An awful experience. And the air was near-unbreathable. I always tell people who worry about China taking over the world to relax; the country will be uninhabitable in 25 years at the rate they’re going.

Never. Don't want to see animals being tortured on the streets

I went there in 1984 and backpacked around for a month or so. I remember how no one smiled or seemed happy in any way except for a young woman on a bus playing with her baby boy and the occasional child.

In the late '90's I went back to adopt my daughter. Walking around with her I'd get mobbed by women wanting to see her. People seemed much happier. The pollution was awful and I noticed the lack of birds everywhere. There was construction going on everywhere, it seemed, but I couldn't tell sometimes whether a building was going up, or being demolished.

R32 I was there the same time you were. It was wonderful.

Speaking of restaurants then, did you ever go to the "sick duck" as it was known locally? Famed Peking Duck restaurant so called as it was next to a hospital. Unforgettable food, and the duck of course. They used hair dryers on them.

[quote]They used hair dryers on them.

WTF is that supposed to do, that you couldn't accomplish in more traditional ways?

Ah I knew someone would ask 😀

They used hair dryers to separate the skin from the flesh when they're cooking it. If you've had real peking duck you know the way the crispy skin is the delicacy. It holds the cooked bird together when it is brought out but - with drama - the chef separates the whole bird with a flourish of chopsticks. You had to be there. Sigh.

I'm a vegetarian, so I never tried Peking Duck. :) I lived on steamed white rice and occasional cooked greens for three months. Lost 40 lbs. You don't even want to know about my eating orgy in Hong Kong at the end of the trip!

Both Ancient India and China are cool. I just have 0 interest in seeing the modern day versions.

R32 there was no bathroom on the airplane? What did people do? Wear diapers?

They held it until we landed. I hope. Even if there had been a bathroom, there was no aisle due to the fold-over jump seats. No emergency exit unless you were in the very front row, or over the wing.

JINA!

I’ve spent a lot of time both working and holidaying in China over the past twenty years.

Interesting experiences but I would be happy to never go there again and am having trouble findIng anything positive to say about the place.

Plus I live in a city that has, until the Covid shutdown, been a major destination for Chinese tourists. I have nothing positive to say about them and their behaviour. China is currently trying to politically bully Australia by threatening to ban their citizens from coming here. Nothing would make me happier than if they stayed away for ever.

[quote] Interesting experiences but I would be happy to never go there again and am having trouble findIng anything positive to say about the place.

Ditto.

R44, how did you find the people there?

Sorry R44 and R45, meant to say, " what did you think of the people there?".

Yes, but I've never been to me.

R46 I don’t speak Mandarin which would have - maybe - helped me get to know the people there. I don’t want to make a call on 1.4 billion people based on my experience but I have to say that the people who I encountered left me anything from laughing to exasperated to fucking angry. The total disregard to the environment, the considerations of others’ personal space (cultural thing so I tried to be aware of that), the loudness (again, possibly cultural and environmental, from competing to be heard) were all at odds with what I will happily deal with.

On the contrary, I have loved all my time in Hong Kong, which is slowly and sadly (to me) being reabsorbed into China from being a Special Administrative Region. But from a Chinese point of view, that’s how it should be.

So I really do try to cut them some slack - all I can say is that I connect well with the Cantonese speaking population in Hong Kong, and the Cantonese Honk Kongers who now live here (Australia), but I despair of the rest of China.

When you visit China, you realize how lucky you were to be born in America. Life is such a lottery.

Even with all their filth and poverty, they still handled Covid better than the U.S.

Nope, never will. Same for India and the Middle East.

My partner and I took a 18 day Viking Tour from Beijing to Shanghai last year. Walking the Great Wall together was a highlight of a lifetime of travel. Saw the terra cotta warriors and loved Shanghai.

HK aside (it is a fun city with great restaurants), I have been to China many times (Shanghai, Chengdu, Beijing mainly). I love Shanghai for a couple of days, the Bundt/the French Concession is really a beautiful area to walk around. Great hotels also (the Mandarin Oriental, the new Edition, the timeless Peninsula). The rest of China, you can keep it. I do not even find the food at their top restaurants (and I travel with local clients) that good. The whole country is polluted, people are not nice, the whole thing is dirty and it is not a nice place to be. If my job told me to relocate to China, I would quit. I had to be there in March again, and I was happy when it got cancelled. Chengdu is the worst city I have ever been to, longest five days of my life.

I lived in a Beijing-adjacent province for about a year in the early 2010s. The city was huge but only a third-tier Chinese city (probably unknown to a Westerner not familiar with China).

I know a little bit of Mandarin (sadly, I've lost a lot too) and I enjoy Chinese literature and history, so I enjoyed the opportunity to travel and experience the country. I also enjoyed not being in a major city -- there were very few Westerners where I lived, and another American and I always joked, "This is the *real* China."

The pollution was atrocious, especially in winter. Personal hygiene turned my stomach at times. Public spaces are filthy. Traffic is insane (its much less regulated in lesser-tier cities than in, say, Beijing or Shanghai). But I very much enjoyed living there, walking the crowded, filthy streets ... there is a certain vigor in China that I haven't experienced elsewhere. The old and the new juxtaposed creates a wonderful mosaic. And the food is amazing.

I went back for a week in 2018 and realized that I'd missed it.

I attached a picture from my apartment window to give perspective on the pollution ... a polluted day vs. a non-polluted day. The polluted day may not have actually been cloudy. When I read the weekly forecast, the only thing that mattered was the wind, because the wind had the power to clear the air for a day or two.

The sun on a polluted yet sunny day

Why doesn’t the country do something about the pollution problem?

I'd like to go to Macau just for the food.

I spent 3 months there for a college internship in 1995. The smell of coal in the air so think you can see it floating in the air. it got in your nose so when you blew your nose, it was black soot soaked mucus. I hate to think what it was doing to my lungs. You stood out as a foreigner where people were either fascinated by you or dismissed you. One woman tried to cut in line while I was buying shoes and I set her straight in my limited Mandarin. But I did enjoy my time there, it is a different world and you have to have a fascination with Chinese culture to at least appreciate and find some value in their culture. The food was amazing. I hope to visit again one day to see how much different it is than it was in '95, perhaps I'll visit in 2025 for a 30 year revisit. A summary of my reason for a visit would be a good narrative on my Visa application.

A professor in prep school took us in the late 70s during the early Boluan Fanzheng. We saw the Democracy Wall and we had one very handsome attendant. I had a huge crush on him. He was pure elegant discipline and moved like a robot crossed with a ballet dancer. I have never met anyone like him. I wonder what became of him. The food was delicious. Very little remains of that China now I am sure.

[quote] Even with all their filth and poverty, they still handled Covid better than the U.S.

Remember that Covid BEGAN in China! They started it! Don’t consider that “handling it” at all, R52. If they had better controls at their biological weapons facility in Wuhan, the world would not have the global pandemic.

They denied its existence at first. They refused to allow outside professionals in to aid and discover more about the virus. The valuable knowledge that could have been obtained by others outside China was spent on the lives of Italians, Iranians, Americans, et al.

They locked down Wuhan after the horse left the barn. Then China began abusing their own citizens: threatening them, silencing them and even soddering them in place with steel doors.

Other countries may have resisted attempts that China instigated once they realised what they unloaded on the world, but China sure as HELL did not handle Covid better than the US. That’s like saying Typhoid Mary “handled” typhoid better than her employers.

Unless you consider unleashing a deadly virus onto the world as “handling better”.

PS: Check out poster 22’s video on the thread, Coronavirus Freakout 44: Died on The 4th of July”. It’s titled WuhanContagion Onepoint6. As the poster wisely writes: it’s chilling.

"And the food is amazing."

Did you have any bat or kitten?

I'd love to go. Are there are any parts of China where there are No Fats, No Fems, No Asians?

I find their greedines for money and status off putting. Also Chinese are racist as fuck.

Yes R65 they are the America of Asia.

[quote] Even with all their filth and poverty, they still handled Covid better than the U.S.

China isn't really poor. . As for handling it better, LOL. They were the cause of the virus and they continue to lie about the numebr of cases they have.

r67 China has ~1.4 billion people. About a billion of them are peasants living in varying degrees of poverty.

Imagine a country roughly the size of the US, with the population of the US. Now add one billion peasants.

That's China.

I've been twice, on business, hated every second of it, couldn't wait to gtfo and go to Japan or Korea instead, civilized countries.

R68, I thought China was considered a upper middle-income country? Or is that just another case of their country making up statistics?

Once. On a slow boat.

Homophobic fucks. I joined my partner on a work trip he had. On one of the days we hired a recommended local tour guide to take us to the Great Wall and other tourist areas. Everything was fine until we went to lunch and he asked us what our wives names were. We were thrown off guard as we never hid the fact that we were together.

We told him we were married to each other, and he kept laughing and not believing us. So we showed him a wedding pic and his mood and demeanor changed dramatically.

R72, when was this? I'm glad at least the Taiwanese are very progressive.

R73 it wasn't that long ago. Same sex marriage was just made legal in our state (NY) but not nationwide yet.

R70, the Communist party elite are maybe upper middle class, there's a few Chinese moguls, and most of the rest are poor peasants. China likes to project an image of wealth and comfort, but it's the exception not the rule.

Btw, if you've encountered Chinese exchange students who seem regular and middle class -they're usually not. Typically, they are the children of the privileged class who can afford to send their kids to the USA for study which looks great on a resume.

r75 one of my colleagues had a Chinese student who would fly home to China 1-2 times a month -- for the weekend. Another colleague had a Chinese student who drove, and then wrecked, a Lamborghini. Daddy replaced it within a couple of weeks.

A Chinese friend told me I could make 6K+ ghostwriting application essays to top universities for a single Chinese student. (I declined.)

The wealth is astonishing.

Obama would never had become president in China.

When Chinese students overseas attacked Hong Kong students for their freedom protests, I knew Chinese are toxic and nationalistic and cannot be trusted. The CCP sends them to spy on westerners and western institutions.

I also went to China once, for work. I told my company I would never go again. The lack of hygiene is nightmare, like Europe in the Middle Ages. People shitting in public. I went to a wet market and wish I never had. It was barbaric. Pollution was a nightmare, filthy and disgusting everywhere you went. It's a very savage way of life that as a Westerner I found appalling.

Both India and China are gross, but middle and upper class Indians are much cleaner than Chinese people.

I have three friends who went to India and all of them said they'd never go back.

India is far dirtier than China. But that's not saying much.

What element in Chinese culture actually advanced humanity, understanding, cultural outreach? If there was ever such an element it got lost in the greed, toxic nationalism and disregard for personal freedom that dominates China today.

R71 LOL

R83, confucianism? But with the cultural revolution, it was probably thrown out the door.

Confucius would despise what became of China.

I read somewhere that in Mao's little red book, he promotes farting. That gives you an idea of what modern China has become--the result of one giant fart.

A veritable shithole.

Polluted, overcrowded, hawking and spitting everywhere. You often don’t know the origin or authenticity of the food you eat. On top of that it’s a ruthless police state.

No bitch, I've only been to me.

I've been to Chinatown.

It was enough.