AUNTIE MAME (1958)

If you had any balls, you would watch the Lucille Ball train wreak version of 1974. I had to start therapy after one viewing. I also went to see my eye doctor. They used such strong filters to make Lucy look less old that I thought I was developing cataracts.

Filters, I thought it was one-inch gauze.

[R1] That was Lucille Ball? I thought Mame was played by the Crab Nebula.

Such sacrilege OP! You and your husband need to surrender your gay cards immediately. (Assuming you're gay, that is.)

It's a delightful movie, still a lot of fun. Love the clothes and decor, of course.

Of course it's superficial. It's also delightful.

I love it. Its' the height of 50s movie glamour in sets and costumes, and Roz gives a perfectly delicious performance.

It was wonderfully avant garde for its time, such as showing two lesbians in tweed in the opening party scene. There are many more gay touches throughout, including the giggling houseboy Ito, and Coral Browne, who shows her lesbian power as Vera Charles.

And who can forget little Gloria Upson, who has been imitated by every faggot since 1958. Her pingpong saga has been memorized and repeated countless times over the years. It was ghastly, just ghastly. All I can say is ghastly.

Come to think of it, Auntie Mame may be the gayest movie ever made.

[quote]If you had any balls, you would watch the Lucille Ball train wreak version of 1974.

Watching a bad movie requires testicles?

If you're looking for depth, you need to read the original two books. They are fantastic and have more layers than they can fit into a two hour movie.

Each chapter is a self contained tale of Auntie Name's adventures, as told by Patrick, and they are all hilarious. Lots of interesting details and names.

You shut your filthy mouth OP

I wish I could give you a million WWs, r3!

Right on, r10 - OP should leave this place and never darken our doorway again.

They added a tap number just for me. It revived my cahreer! At this point, I was done with men. All I had was my psychic abilities and my extraordinary talent. And the Six Egg Diet!

I thought Ann Miller's Six Egg Diet deserves it's own thread.

Auntie Mame's indulgent philosophy only works for a repressed personality type, which many of the supporting character's possess. She'd have real problems handling a Courtney Love or Sid Vicious. Or a Rhoda from THE BAD SEED.

"characters possess"

I watch it occasionally when I'm in the mood, but to tell you the truth, while I agree with your assessment that parts were maybe a little tedious, as a geeky little gay boy growing-up in suburban Ohio, I immediately adopted the "life is a banquet..." line as my mantra. I adhered to it in every aspect of my life, and still do, now that I'm 66. I've traveled and lived all over the world, done things that almost got me killed, met amazing people, eaten things that the average person would throw-up, and seen things that were both amazing and shocking. When I was in my forties, my father made the comment, "why can't you just be normal?" I can't because I'm not. So to me, "life is a banquet, and most poor sons-of-bitches are starving to death" is exactly my life philosophy, and I owe some part of who I am today to that movie. I hope some other kids watch it, and get what its saying.

[R17] That's a sweet story and a testament to the power of movies in our lives (at their best). Roz and Patrick Dennis would be happy with those results. Today's movies and entertainment have seemingly lost their way - especially when it comes to young people. They're no longer told they can "do anything", however unrealistic the statement sometimes is, but that they live in an ugly, fallen world, that people are essentially bad and that the species will be coming to an end soon. Great message.

Dame Angela would have made the musical version a classic

OP, don't forget Acacius Page and his pedo school, where all the teachers and students were naked together, and pretending to swim around and make babies.

I can't believe the censors allowed that shit in the 1950's!

It was ghastly. It was just ghastly.

R17 tell us more, you interesting person.

R9, I sense Ryan Murphy’s next project. I’ll be looking for a finders fee if he does.

Personally I hated it! How dare they cut my very important scene with Bunny Bixler!

[R20] Did it turn you gay?

I was thinking that maybe Madonna could do a revival but then I find it hard to believe she could remember all of the lines. Plus, "fuck!", "racist!" and "patriarchy!" aren't in the script. Yet.

I was stunned by the alternative school scene last time I watched it! It looked so creepy to modern sensibilities, like some pedophile ring.

Gloria’s nouveau riche trashy parents always amuse me, since Gloria is trying so hard to be top drawer, but it only takes a tiny scratch in the surface to see from whence she came. Her parents are like the Trumps from Queens.

The fox hunting scene always makes me laugh. What a great bit of slapstick, with the ridiculous boots and the madcap romp across the Georgia countryside!

Patrick’s mainstream phase seemed pretty typical, but not the swiftness with which he relinquished it!

Overall, I can watch this over and over and it always makes me feel better.

I like mine with music, thanks.

It's much beloved, but there are problems with it as a film. For one thing, it's done in a very stagey artificial way that doesn't always work (such as with the spotlights on Mame's face, or her back bow, at the end of scenes). And it's tough today to know exactly what Patrick Dennis (and the playwrights) were doing with the Brian O'Bannion character--he doesn't really gel with the other plots very well. (And of course Ito is super-offensive)

Although I have some exceptions here and there to what she does, Roz Russell is nonethelesshilarious. Her inflections for "spitting distance... how vivid..." in the phone call with Mr. Babcock, and the way she weakly corrects Mrs. Upson that her name is Mame, not "Mamie" crack me up every time... also the long pregnant pauses she makes every time Gloria says something inane, which just kill me. But sometimes she's a bit over-rehearsed, like she played the part a few too many times (such as when she says "Even chosen my gift!" to the Upsons and lets emotion break through too patly). This was a common problem for people who did great stage performances after long Broadway runs in the part; sometimes Rex Harrison also lets the surprise go out of his lines in "My Fair Lady," for example, and of course all Dataloungers know that Nancy Kelly and Patty McCormack have problems with this to a much greater extent than either Russell or Harrison in the film of "The Bad Seed." Even so, Russell's is still a great performance.

It's hysterical!

The books are fun, but so full of racial stereotypes (especially AROUND THE WORLD . . .) that they're cringeworthy. Homophobic portraits of gay men, too. As a closeted gay, Dennis was more than a little self-hating.

Tell me, Mamie -- how do you feel about gin?

I've met plenty of Ito's in my time. Stereotypes do exist, dahlings!

[quote] I've met plenty of Ito's in my time. Stereotypes do exist, dahlings!

Apostrophes do not exist for plural forms of names, dahling.

I found this!

r24 WHAT'S WRONG WITH MURIEL PUCE?!

I based my teenage personality on Mame and Scarlett Ohara. Mame worked wonderfully for making friends and enjoying the hell out of life and Scarlett got me plenty of men !

Since r35 posted that scene, I feel compelled to bring up this fascinating look at the "Auntie Mame Staircase."

[quote] WHAT'S WRONG WITH MURIEL PUCE?!

Perhaps the funniest line in the movie, especially given the way Joanna Barnes delivers it... as if she could not even [italic]imagine[/italic] someone finding Muriel Puce objectionable in any way.

Would have been so much better with Bette Davis.

R7 Gloria Upson is so such a WASP, she thinks mayonaisse is a spice.

Imagine anybody speaking French to a counterman at Schrafft's. Show off.

r31 He actually did a pretty good job of being even-handed with the characters. I didn't detect homophobia in it, in fact Mame was pretty defensive of any marginalized groups. The people who looked awful in the books were usually the society types who made that their life goals. Remember the self-hating Jews who were living like kings in Lebanon but changed their last name and pretended to be French? Or when she blew up the Schloss to try to retard the Nazis?

She was also rebelling against what was expected of women - to be demure and meek and snag a good husband - and living her life the way she wanted.

Ito's a stereotype but "Chinamen" like him were common in films at the time so it's not all that unusual. Plus he's a memorable character.

There's some stereotypes, sure, but there's a reason that stereotypes exist - to ignore them isn't being honest either.

[quote]Would have been so much better with Bette Davis.

By 1958, Bette Davis had become too matronly for someone as vivacious as Auntie Mame. Davis was already moving into character roles, with the dumpy mother in The Catered Affair in '56, followed by Apple Annie in A Pocketful of Miracles (1961). Even her Maxine Faulk in Night of the Iguana ion Broadway was a slatternly character, and Davis wasn't invited to repeat the role in the film version.

I don't see how she could have bested Roz's performance, stagey though it was at times.

I agree with r44: Bette would have been miscast.

Greer Garson took over the part on Broadway when Russell left the show.

Ironically, Lucy in 1958 would've been okay as Auntie Mame. Not better than Roz, of course.

I'm an Elder Gay, and I have never "gotten" the Auntie Mame thing. The movie is ugly to look at and over strenuous, and it all just seems tacky. I know it's a movie that changed men's lives...but there it is.

Millennials have never heard of a "drag queen performance". Pity.

[quote] Ironically, Lucy in 1958 would've been okay as Auntie Mame. Not better than Roz, of course.

I actually don't think Lucy would have been that good. She always seemed so blowsy--she never seemed like she could convincingly play a wealthy woman who spent time with the cultural elite.

One of the biggest mysteries of the movie (probably of also the original stage play too?) is they never show Brian and Nora interacting, even though they're both employed by Mame and are both from Ireland.

OP, I agree with you.

Her attitude "life is a banquet" is fine for millionaires but stupid for poor people like Holly Golightly and so many young queens who turn to prostitution to get a liveable income.

Mame wouldn’t wear a mask in public.

r52 even Mame danced as a line girl in Chu Chin Chow one summer, with Vera!

Dennis never intended Mame to be a saint. Far from it. Her biases were as colorfully displayed as those of the middle class she abhorred.

But in the end her flaws were judged ornamental compared to those of worse people, and her spirit - irritating and overblown - was a force of nature. It does no good to complain about nature.

I don't think any of the characters in the books were saints - they all had significant character flaws, even Patrick. Mame gets pretty obnoxious and makes incredibly bad decisions in quite a few of the chapters, especially in Around the World with Auntie Mame. And so does Patrick!

Well you could practically write a BOOK about what happened to OP!

Overrated! The last scene is pretty good though. Mame reminds me too much of my mother, who was all zany like that but without the humanity.

It seemed dated and stagey when I first saw it on tv years ago. It's a bit like reading a Dawn Powell novel years later---the humor seems a bit forced and predictable.

Lucy would have been horrible--a little too broad, a little too schticky. The right age, perhaps, but not the right actress. Her pals Eve Arden and Ann Sothern would have been better. Sothern could even sing.

[quote]Ironically, Lucy in 1958 would've been okay as Auntie Mame. Not better than Roz, of course.

Well at least we wouldn't have been subjected to her croaking if she'd played it in '58.

Not one comment about Forrest Tucker's legendary big dick?

Forest nicknamed his penis “the chief.”

Lucy want to play Mame but Gary...oh, never mind.

I see myself in her.

Peggy Cass milked her Oscar nomination for decades.

Mame as played by Russell an insufferable, know-it-all cunt. She was OK as someone for a young, impressionable child to have in his life, but completely unsuitable as a guardian and caretaker. She was more concerned with being outrageous and avant garde than with the welfare of the child.

The character in the film was able to get away with irresponsible behaviour because of her wealth and privilege. Had she been poorer she'd have been jeered and locked up.

I haven't read the books, so I don't know if Russell's portrayal matches the character in the book, but the woman Russell played was basically a selfish attention whore. In today's world she'd be a YouTube influencer or someone equally grotesque.

It must be time for a new Mame suitable for our modern times.

Beyoncé or Leslie Jones?

^^You have a point. But if you wear a hat you can cover it.

R43, read his novel TONY, particularly the chapter "Tony in Sodom" and get back to me.

R69 this is about Auntie Mame, not TONY.

(R62) Thank you, that photo made me smile.

R66 You are the wrong kind of people.

I think this discussion is missing the point that "Auntie Mame" was never intended to be anything more than a shiny bauble - there was no deeper significance to be found in the characters or their attitudes. We keep referring to Patrick Dennis as the creator, but his original book was adapted as a play by Jerome Lawrence and Robert E. Lee, and that was subsequently adapted into the 1958 screenplay by Betty Comden and Adolph Greene. So there were a lot of hands at work on what we ended up with on screen.

Mame Dennis is a fiction, although she was very loosely based on an aunt of Patrick Dennis, Marion Tanner. Marion Tanner was not the fabulously rich, Beekman Place-dwelling character we meet in the book and play/film adaptations. She was a Greenwich Village free spirit who knew lots of interesting people and did lots of partying, starting in the 1920s. She eventually lost her money and her row house in the Village, and ended up living on the generosity of others.

So please stop looking for significance in "Auntie Mame" and just enjoy it as great entertainment that reflects, for better or worse, the time and attitudes of the era in which it was created.

R66 = Mr. Babcock.

R73 what makes art truly great isn't the intentions of the artists; it is what people see in it.

What the hell have you got back there, reindeer?

We have a place in Fort Lauderdale.

She's passing the fox!

I'll bet R66 is a blast at parties.

I bet Auntie Mama supported President Wilson. He was a peacemaker.

The most important lesson I learned from Auntie Mame is there there is no such place as San Fransico.

Crap! I put an extra “there” there!

I love the movie, but it does lose a bit of oomph for me in the middle, until the Gloria Upson business plays out.

I think Kaye Thompson could've been great in the '58 movie version, too.

Yankee cunt wasn't all that.

I called that bitch Yul Ulu. She said due to litigation, no longer able to sell elevator sofa. Drunk Karen slid off, lights out.

[R73] OP here and I really appreciate your very knowledgeable perspective - and the perspectives of so many other well-informed and intelligent men. You guys are great!!!! I wanted to add one thing that I remember from reading Roz' autobiography, LIFE IS A BANQUET. To paraphrase, she said that Mame was also based on an older sister of hers (she was from a large Irish Catholic family from Waterbury, CT - ?). The defining anecdote about the glamorous older sister went something like this: Roz and her older sister are walking down 5th Avenue when a very attractive man who obviously knows them approaches them. They say all kinds of nice things and Roz' sister makes sure to ask after his mother ("she's well, thanks"). He politely excuses himself and walks on into the streets of New York. Roz' sister turns to Roz and asks, "Who was that?", Roz answers: "Your first husband."

[quote]even Mame danced as a line girl in Chu Chin Chow one summer, with Vera!

I was NEVER in the chorus.

I see no one has offered a sensible suggestion for a remake other than your silly suggestion, R67.

The other funniest delivery of an obscure (but hilarious) line:

MRS. UPSON: "And this is Miss Tuthill, little Glory's first school teacher!... I think the light was hurting her eyes..."

Widdicome, Gutterman, Applewhite, Bibberman and Black....

... Oh. Mr Widdecome? I have your San Francisco call for you. Yes, Mr. Bibberman? Oh. Did I connect you to Mr. Gutterman instead of Mr. Applewhite? I'm sorry, Mr. Bibbicome. Bibbibibbib.

... Oh Mr. Applewhite, what are you doing in that hole with Mr. Gutterman?

I agree that the pacing of the film is uneven. But Rosalind Russell's ability to deliver lines clearly with the right comic inflection at the speed of light was never equaled by another actress. Even going back to her early films of the late 30s and early 40s, it's evident that that was a unique and special gift of hers.

[R92] I agree. Even an actor who might be able to deliver lines with the same speed couldn't put the expression into them. Her line readings don't flatten out. Vivien Leigh also had this ability.

r92 Roz gave the strongest performance in The Women (1939) and I don't think Joan Crawford or Norma Shearer knew what hit them.

R94, in "Conversations with Joan Crawford" by Roy Newquist, Crawford says of "The Women" - "I knew that Norma would walk off with the audience sympathy and that Roz Russell would walk off with the picture, and that I'd be hated""

r95 I can't believe Crawford or Shearer would stand aside and allow Roz steal the picture. They were surprised as much as everyone else.

I'm a huge fan of Dennis' original novels. The poster who said to stop looking for deep meaning and just enjoy is correct. Dennis wrote to entertain -He had no illusions that he was writing the Great American Novel. In fact, he was laughing at the very idea. Over the decades the character of Mame Dennis Burnside has been overtaken by the "life is a banquet" idea, to the point that it misrepresents her. Mame embraced anything that was new. Not from a goal of being seen as cultured or stylish, but because she craved novelty. She would take up a new idea or cause and embrace it with everything she had. For a time. Or at least until something new and interesting caught her attention. Whether that meant Japanese culture before the war, taking in refugee children during the war, or studying yoga in India after the war, Mame was all about living large in the present moment. What made her endearing in the novels was the fact that she was actually intelligent, educated, generous, and had taste. She was equally at home dining with a duchess or her maid. She abhorred pettiness, prejudice, and pretense. Yes, she was sometimes rash, always self-indulgent, and occasionally blind to things going on around her. But the privilege she so easily assumed was something that she was perfectly willing to share with anyone.

In many ways Mame is a female Peter Pan who refuses to grow up or grow old. She constantly reinvented herself. She also felt perfectly comfortable "dating" younger men, much to her nephew's chagrin. Another of Mame's charms -especially for her gay fans - was her attitude about sex. To her it was something wonderful and fun that society made too much of a fuss over with silly taboos and proscriptions. People accuse Patrick Dennis of internalized homophobia -But how many of the novels from his period included gay and lesbian characters at all? And a closer look reveals that the disdain often shown was towards a character's greed, stupidity, or attempts at social climbing, rather than his sexuality. Many of those characters were only gay when there was something to be had from it (Tony in Tony, Bruce in Genius).

Dennis is worth a re-read.

HOW BLEAK WAS MY PUBERTYYYY

[R97] Great post! To add another 2 cents I also think that Mame's kind of a proto-Beatnik, an archetype that would morph into something associated with drugs, promiscuity and radical politics just a few years later in the thick of the 1960's. She possesses latent counterculture qualities that can be enjoyed as charming eccentricities and not as threats to the social order. She's not yet Jane Fonda in a helmet sitting on a tank.

She was building on the 1920s flapper style that wasn't just what you wore, but also how you acted, and the women's rights movement. It was extra dramatic for Mame considering her background (although she's from Buffalo).

After you're through reading Auntie Mame, pick up Little Me, which is Patrick Dennis' satirical biography of a Hollywood Golden Age star whose breasts are bigger than her brains. There are many gay and lesbian characters throughout, and it's full of humorous photos. I like it better than his Mame books because it nails the self-centered autobiographies of famous actresses.

Thanks for the suggestion, r101!

Have you read Genius or Joyous Season? I saw those when I was searching, too.

"First Lady," which features DL icon Peggy Cass, is similar to "Little Me" in that it uses photographs throughout the story. Patrick Dennis had no idea that 60 years on, we'd end up with something infinitely worse in the White House.

Genius is probably my favorite Dennis novel. Also, check out First Lady -a fictional autobiography (like Little Me) of Martha Dinwiddie Butterfield -First Lady of the United States. For a month. Because her husband diddled the vote.

And while typing, someone beat me to it. Read it. You'll love it.

'First Lady' is outrageous and full off broad, campy humour.

I say outrageous because it uses photographic montages where you see someone has used scissors to place someone's head on another's body. And also outrageous with 1950s beefcake on almost every page starring semi-famous beefcake models.

R95, R96 George Cukor planned that the different stars would appeal to different types of female audience.

Joan was the stylish bitch. Roz was the kook. Joan Fontaine was the ingenue. Norma was normal and matronly. And Mary Boland was Uber-matronly.

And so we preferred the kooky one.

Another thumbs up for Little Me, which is like Auntie Mame on steroids (or poppers). It's an outrageous, arch, campy romp through Golden Age Hollywood, and the photos by Cris Alexander are every bit as much fun as the text. Little Me has been rather forgotten over the years - it was transformed into a not-very-good Broadway musical that became a star vehicle for Sid Caesar (book by Neil Simon). But it is one of those books that turn up in thrift shops and book sales, and it's well worth a read to get acquainted with its heroine. the immortal Belle Poitrine.

Letch—

Well, dear Letch had a very long life, good for him. He outlived most of his Little Me contemporaries, including Patrick Dennis, Cris Alexander, and Jeri Archer.

There are nudes of Kurt "Letch Feeley" Bieber on the 'net. He was gay and did some porn modeling for Colt back in the day. Gotta pay to see... :(

I think I need a Dr. Pepper

Plus sixteen egg whites and a small chisel.

My favorite Russell performance are from the 30s and early 40s. Very fresh and funny.

r110 Nah -- you can get a taste for free.