New book on the making of "Valley of the Dolls"

Too much booze and dope on that set.

Maybe late to the party, but I just learned Paul Burke was Alia Shawkat's grandfather. I'll assume it's mentioned in the book.

Showbiz family ties are always surprising!

I'm surprised Ryan Murphy hasn't remade this.

It could be interesting but if they are rehashing things we already know about its' history, then no.

R3 I would actually love to see Murphy make a miniseries about the making of VOTD rather than a remake. He gets a lot of hate here but Murphy can be quite entertaining with the right material.

I'd rather a remake without Murphy. It should follow the book, which takes place over decades, not just the 1960s.

Both suggestions are good -- a miniseries about the making of the movie, or a mini-series remake following the longer-term story of the book. I need Dolls!!!

Who would DL cast in a VOTD remake?

The book is excellent in that it amalgamates the information from all the usual sources as well as hard to find clippings, production reports, and contemporary accounts. It also takes the trouble of putting longstanding rumors to rest, and goes into more detail than biographies of individuals who participated in the film, since it's a whole book about one movie.

I was glad I read it, even if it's not a book I'll be referring to over and over again.

It's shit. I don't kiss and tell.

I was eager to read it - but it’s not well written at all.

I’m about a third of the way through - don’t know if I will finish it.

What's the age span for the main characters. I could see Hayley Atwell as Anne, though she's 38 now.

Alexandra Daddario is an obvious choice for Jennifer.

I don't know if Jessie Buckley can do an American accent but she certainly seems like someone who could be called Neely O'Hara.

I guess the script was shitty because no A-list actors wanted any part of it. Fun to think of what it might have been with good actors, catchy songs and a director who didn't seem hell-bent on sabotaging the production.

What is Lee Grant? Chopped liver?

[quote] I guess the script was shitty because no A-list actors wanted any part of it.

*ahem, ahem*

Donna Murphy as Helen Lawson.

Why would they remake "Valley of the Dolls"?

Why would they remake "Mildred Pierce"?

R16 No Lee Grant is a liar.

"I was blacklisted and couldn't get any work" - go check her imdb page. She worked all the time during her blacklist period. It might not have been for the BIG STUDIOS, but she worked.

Lying professional victim cunt.

The source for "Mildred Pierce" is a fine novel by James M. Cain, one of America's finest writers of the 20th century.

The source for "Valley of the Dolls" is a shitty novel by Jacqueline Susann, one of America's worst writers of the 20th century.

I just read the new book. Actually MANY Hollywood actresses wanted to be in the film, since they knew it would be a hit, and the names mentioned were pretty surprising to me. Bette Davis was among the many who wanted to play Helen Lawson, for example. The studio and Jacqueline Susann both constantly talked up Barbra Streisand for the part of Neely O'Hara; the book never says whether Streisand was actually interested in the part, however.

The book has too many names parading through, but there are core points the author makes that are intelligent. He points out that a big reason why the book was so popular (and why it still is today, when other similar tell-all novels from that era like The Carpetbaggers are forgotten) is that it has a very disturbing but sobering message for women: No matter how pretty or talented you may be, it will not be enough because show biz is so especially hard on women. He also points out that the fates of the three stars wound up being exactly very much like what happens to their characters: Sharon Tate died much too young; Barbara Parkins thought she would become a big star but ended up back with her family, her illusions shattered; and Patty Duke alienated everyone with her problems and spent a stint in the nuthouse.

They've already tried multiple times to remake it or make a sequel to it, and it never quite works. I do think if Ryan Murphy did a "making of" miniseries like he did for WEHT Baby Jane? he would have a lot of fun, especially because Parkins and Duke were such divas on the set, and poor Judy Garland was so unhappy and falling apart until they replaced her with Susan Hayward, who turned out to be difficult. She refused to let them reveal Helen Lawson to be bald when Neely pulls the wig off, and insisted they only show her own full head of hair except dyed white. This makes almost no sense then for Neely to mock her for it: hasn't Neely ever seen a wig before? And isn't Patty Duke clearly wearing a wig herself in the scene? Also, it would be fun showing Susann herself at the premiere (on board an ocean liner!) annoying everyone and insisting the film was "shit."

Barbara Parkins is the black hole at the center of the film. Anne is a boring character, and they picked a boring actress to play her.

R3 Lee Daniels wanted to remake it but ran into issues with Jacqueline’s estate.

The weird thing is that Barbara Parkins was the biggest star they wound up hiring, because at the time she was the biggest television star in the US. Today she's the one no one remembers.

In the novel, Anne is the most interesting and well-developed character. I thought she was pretty much gutted in the movie.

The weird thing is that they don't really show Anne "making it" as someone famous. The Gillian Girl montage is more about her actual modeling performances rather than actually seeing her become famous and enjoying the fruits of her fame.

If they ever re-made it, they would get the best product if they set it in the original period in which the novel is set: the forties and early fifties. But I think that would be too confusing for gay fans.

I'd only be interested in reading this book in order to hear what was said about Judy Garland and Sharon Tate. Whose bright idea was it to cast Judy Garland as Helen Lawson? Not only was she drug addicted and totally unreliable she was totally wrong for the part. Judy Garland playing a supremely bitchy character like Helen Lawson? She COULDN'T do it. She knew film audiences loved her as the sweet, wistful characters she normally played; she just couldn't bring herself to play someone mean and ambitious and calculating. And what did the book say about poor Sharon Tate? Patty Duke said the director of the movie (who she loathed) tortured Sharon and made her do scenes over and over in order to adhere to piddling, meaningless details. Oh well, I I see the book at the library I'll probably check it out.

[quote]r28 The weird thing is that they don't really show Anne "making it" as someone famous. The Gillian Girl montage is more about her actual modeling performances rather than actually seeing her become famous and enjoying the fruits of her fame.

The book doesn't really dwell on this, either. Anne isn't a top model in the sense of someone like Suzy Parker (or the supermodels of the 80s). She does print ads and commercials for one brand. She becomes recognizable, but she's not a star like Neely or Jennifer become. (Jennifer has a very successful American comeback in the novel.)

Anne moves in with the head of the Gillian company and lives a kind of low key life (for a rich New Yorker). She just sees the Gillian Girl stuff as a job.

Jennifer should have been Ann-Margret.

If Ryan Murphy did a behind-the-scenes miniseries (he needs to deliver something for his Netflix contract besides the bland 'The Politician'), he could hire Judy Davis to play Judy Garland...unless she wouldn't want to revisit her Emmy-winning role. Maybe throw in Selena Gomez as Barbara Perkins, Jane Lynch as Helen Lawson, whatever young blonde of the moment as Sharon Tate, and--wait for it--Lea Michele in her comeback as Neely. (She'd essentially be playing herself, and people would watch for the stunt casting and to see her humiliate herself.) Then wheel out Lee Grant for a cameo...that would actually be fun and kitschy. And have Darren Criss as the guy who played Tony Polar. It would all be typical Murphy casting, but what else could we expect?

Not sure who would be a good casting decision for Jacqueline Susann. I thought of Wendi Malick at first, but it needs to be a bigger, campier name. Maybe Parker Posey with bronzer, huge eyelashes, and a jet black wig?

No. Ann "Kitten with a Whip" Margret wasn't sweet enough.

I loved all the period slang in the book, it was hilarious. I love that people actually used to talk like that.

Yes. Helen says she wants to go out to a nightclub and "howl."

Winning an Oscar doesn't make me A-list?

Bitch.

R26 Interesting. Whenever I watch the film I am glued to the screen during Jennifer and Neelys scenes whereas Perkins leaves me cold. Perkins reminds me of Michelle Dockery, in that she wasn't the worst actress but she's very chilly and a bit unlikable.

Why didn’t they let Helen Lawson play herself? Was she considered too old for the part?

^Fuck you!

Pardon me, Miss Lawson. I didn’t realize you were still alive.

R23 The parallels are quite eerie come to think of it.

Am I alone in not finding that movie enjoyable? It's shitty to look at and it's also just shitty--and not in a "fun" way.....I mean, OK, Patty Duke and Susan Hayward have some over-the-top lines and scenes...but the rest? It's awful in that dead-in-the-water bestseller way--like, oh, "The Shoes of the Fisherman" or something. Not worth the time of day.

The Godfather was a pulpy popular novel that was made into a serious, almost operatic film. I think the same could be done with Valley of the Dolls if the campy bits were toned down. Margot Robbie would be an excellent Jennifer. I'd cast Emma Stone as Neely and someone like Blake Lively as Jennifer.

Neely O'Hara was of course based on Judy Garland, but she was also based on Betty Hutton, a now-forgotten musical star from the 40s who destroyed her career with pills and erratic behavior.

Jennifer North was of course based on Marilyn Monroe but also based on Carole Landis, a now-forgotten 40s starlet who ODed on sleeping pills after Rex Harrison dumped her. Jacqueline Susann and Landis had a relationship in the 40s when they were in a play together.

Anne Welles was partially based on Grace Kellly and also partially based on a sort of cleaned-up fantasy version of Susann herself, who imagined she was from an upper-class background and had done modeling.

Helen Lawson was Ethel Merman. Crude, crass and obnoxious.

Tony Polar was based on Dean Martin, who Susann thought was retarded.

[quote] Helen Lawson was Ethel Merman. Crude, crass and obnoxious.

Eat shit and die.

Nick Hoult would make an excellent Lyon.

Anne Welles is boring - but often in a film or TV series the person who's at the center of the story isn't actually the most interesting character. For instance, in "Mad Men" Don Draper wasn't the one whose story you really cared about - it was more that he ushered you into an interesting world populated with all these vivid people with adventures of their own.

The best part about Anne's story is cut from the film. She becomes friends with Helen, who eventually turns on her when the father of Anne's fiance doesn't want to go to bed with her. For the rest of the story Anne basically sits around and waits for Lyon, or listens to Neely and Jennifer.

Come to think of it, Helen even TELLS Anne she's boring!

[quote]The weird thing is that Barbara Parkins was the biggest star they wound up hiring, because at the time she was the biggest television star in the US. Today she's the one no one remembers.

You seriously think Barbara Parkins was EVER a bigger star than Patty Duke (who had an Oscar AND her own television series) and Susan Hayward, another Oscar winner and Hollywood veteran?

I used this photo as my Internet avatar for a long time....

Does the book come with a free jug of Helenesque?

The FDA has approved Helenesque as effective on the COVID-19 virus.

Barbara Parkins was a friend of my mother's when she lived in England in the late 60s early 70s. She was famous in England for Peyton Place which still ran here at the time.

She was a very nice woman...and was sweet with little kiddie me.

Was your mother Carol Lynley?

No, R53.

Barbara lays a claim for the using of Dionne to sing the theme song. It was her suggestion.

She didn't pursue her career in acting. She gave it up. It didn't give her up.

She came back to England for some showing of the movie in more recent times and looked my father up - he said "apparently the film has a homosexual following".

[quote]R49 I used this photo as my Internet avatar for a long time...

Parkins bitches about her wardrobe in the DVD commentary a lot. She thought costume designer Travilla wasn't very imaginative with day wear, which is what (playing a secretary) you mostly saw her in. In your former avatar, she says it looks like there's a dead animal on her head.

I don't think she comments on this Cowardly Lion look he handed her.

sorry, I'm R52, not 53.

VOTD would have been Judy Garland's last film, but she was such a mess she had to be fired from the role. Kept the wardrobe, though, and you can see the sequined pantsuit they designed for her as Helen in some of her later concert pictures.

There are so many interesting films that Judy missed out on because of her addictions: Royal Wedding, Barkleys of Broadway, Annie Get Your Gun, Showboat. Then there are the later juicy parts that should have been hers but couldn't be due to her condition: Helen Lawson, Mama Rose, Mame, Dolly Levi.

[quote]r52 Barbara Parkins was a friend of my mother's when she lived in England in the late 60s early 70s. She was a very nice woman...and was sweet with little kiddie me.

I'm sure she's a perfectly nice person.

She's adopted, and I read some old screen magazine article where she said she had no intrest in finding her birth mother.

I wonder if that woman ever watched Peyton Place or Valley of the Dolls and thought the actress looked familiar.

[quote]She's adopted, and I read some old screen magazine article where she said she had no intrest in finding her birth mother.

Probably a bit late now.

Someone should do a remake that's faithful to the book, which spans 1945 to 1965.

[Quote] She thought costume designer Travilla wasn't very imaginative with day wear, which is what (playing a secretary) you mostly saw her in.

"Never again," said Barbara.

She said she loved shooting the perfume commercial.

"Tony Polar was based on Dean Martin, who Susann thought was retarded."

If that's what Susann thought about Dean Martin then SHE was the one who was retarded. Dean Martin was an easy going, down to earth guy but he was no dummy. Actually, from the interviews I've seen Susann seemed like an an incredible bird brain herself. There was one where she was sparring with John Simon (he wiped up the floor with her); she came across as an idiot.

[quote] Duke were such divas on the set,

She had bi-polar disease back then (un-diagnosed) - what does the book say that made her so "difficult"

Around the time of its release my mother and two of my aunts, all three sisters-in-law, did a recreation of the movie poster with the three principles posing on a bed. They were young and shitfaced and my father, also young and shitfaced, was more than happy to memorialize them on film for later humiliation. I think they were on a trip together, possibly NYC for New Years Eve week.

Several years later my maternal grandmother took a liking to it and used it as a model for one of her acrylic projects. She was getting back at my mother for something.

BTW there is an excellent biography of Jacqueline Susann called "Lovely Me," by Barbara Seaman. I HIGHLY recommend it. Susann had a life similar to her novels, it was full of drama. She was quite an interesting woman. I could not put this book down.

Dolores Gray would have been fabulous in a Jacqui Susann bio-musical.

Barbara Parkins comes across as very bitter in the DVD commentary for VOTD.

Like this, R66?

Susan Hayward was the biggest star in the film and the most experienced actor, although her time as a "carry the picture" star was over and she did the part in a "woman in jeopardy" style that had served her in the past. Duke had never had an adult role and they were taking a chance with her---her tv series had been cancelled and her only recent film was about a teenage tomboy. Parkins was a rising tv star. Paul Burke had starred in 2 ensemble tv series--he comes across as tv actor, not a film actor. He doesn't have the right kind of authority.

Doing a remake would be difficult. The book is cheap melodrama and it wouldn't easily translate into a quality serious drama. Intentional camp would work better but is difficult in practice. Also, they'd need to retain the most ridiculous parts of the movie like that Tree song with the plastic mobile.

[quote]r67 BTW there is an excellent biography of Jacqueline Susann called "Lovely Me," by Barbara Seaman. I HIGHLY recommend it. Susann had a life similar to her novels, it was full of drama. She was quite an interesting woman. I could not put this book down.

That is a great book. The touching thing about it to me was she had been diagnosed with cancer and undergone a double mastectomy when she turned to writing fiction - she'd been a failed playwright and actress (fired from two Broadway shows) and had a mentally disabled son in an institution. And she put all her attention and drive into writing and selling her novels, hoping one dream in her life would come true.

They did, and then she died.

The book is in kindle format only so that should tell you all something right there.

R32 Selena Gomez? JANE LYNCH?? .

One funny thing about the shooting is Susan Hayward insisted all the linings be ripped out of her costumes, thinking this would make her look thinner. Maybe it did, but it also makes the suit she wears in her first scene kind of rumply looking.

I mean, you can imagine if you went to your closet and ripped all the linings out of your business suits, they'd fall on your body kind d of weird.

Tovah as Jacqui?

I first saw it on VHS years ago. I wanted to see what the fuss was about. What shocked me most was how awful the songs were. This was 1967 - even the shit songs were quite good. The only song that captures the era was the Dionne theme song. But this is why it's funny.

I'm glad the film was a financial success in its time. I don't know what business it did here in England. I don't think it was ever on the radar here.

[quote]the most ridiculous parts of the movie like that Tree song with the plastic mobile

You obviously wouldn't know a good number if it bit you on the ass!

⬆️ That's painful, R79. I just couldn't make it to the end.

Judy's version is heads and tails better. It seems Helen Lawson was copying some of Judy's slinky moves.

The thing that struck me the first time I watched this scene is how smudged the plastic mobile pieces look in close ups...did they not have Windex back then? Or was Helen just drunkenly stumbling into them so much that they quit trying to clean them?

Obvious lip synching with movements that seem totally disconnected from the singing.

Judy's version sounds like an old drunk at a cheap cocktail lounge, which would make sense if Helen Lawson was shown at a point when she was finished..

Lauren Bacall received Two Tonys as Best Actress in a Musical. Think on't.

I purchased the Audiobook version and found it highly enjoyable.

It's juicy . . . lots of dish.

Sean Connery was first choice to play Lyon Burke, but they settled for Paul Burke, who entertained a steady stream of young women in his dressing room.

Candice Bergen, Marlo Thomas and Kathryn Hays were among those who tested for the role of Anne. Travilla even designed some of Anne's clothes for Bergen before Barbara Parkins was cast.

Parkins and Patty Duke were the two biggest divas on the set.

The director wanted Helen Lawson to be bald when Patty pulled off her wig, but Hayward refused and insisted on having her own hair dyed white.

"Offstage I hate her, but onstage I'm madly in love with her."

I love the way they're all reacting to her like she's Aretha fuckin' Franklin singing Respect for the first time. That tune is horrific. Sorry, tune is the wrong word.

I'm guessing that it came down to money, in terms of casting. Connery would have been much better than Burke, but had become a real star with James Bond. Davis, even if dubbed, would have been more able to carry-off a showbiz Broadway role than Hayward. Bergen would have been just as blah as Parkins, but more decorative.

Who plants a tree, anyway?

Is "Hit the Sky!" supposed to be about a forest ranger?

“I'm Neely O' Hara, pal! That’s ME singin’ on that jukebox!“

[quote]Barbara Parkins was the biggest star they wound up hiring

Duke was twice the actress Parkins was.

Lucy was sought for the role of Helen Lawson, but Gary talked her out of, telling her her fans just wouldn’t buy her as a bitter, aging diva.

The only remotely interesting thing about that movie is that Judy Garland was somehow associated with it.

⤴️Not true.

The only hit that comes out of a Helen Lawson show is Helen Lawson, and that's ME, baby!

Here's a link to a good blog on Travilla.

They have a few bits on VOTD.

96 posts and no one thought about Jacqueline Susann being played by Christine Baranski.

You guys are slippin'.

Cybill Shepherd as Helen Lawson?

Should've quit while I was ahead? Got it.

Does the book feature any interview with Helen Lawson?

I liked the new book - it went through all of the writers who worked on the script, including Harlan Ellison, the Sci-Fi guy who started it.....

Also very interesting about the sequence they shot the film in. One of the first, on location in NYC, was the scene of Neely in front of a theatre drunk - shot at the theatre where Duke had played Helen Keller just a few short years before.....

I can't find it in the video above, but in one shot when Helen is raising her arms there's a big white thread hanging down under her armpit......you can see it on the DVD, but I can't see it on that video..... And Hayward never ends her song lines......she just just keeps clacking her dentures around and waiting for the voice to fade out.....

Barbara Parkins was big at the time. She'd just boarded the train from Peyton Place...

And this is house where Neely and Mel lived......not the same house where Neely & Ted lived....not sure where that filmed that.

The Ted & Neely house always look like one of the houses in LESS THAN ZERO, but who knows......

Actually, Bacall might have made a good Helen Lawson. She was reportedly as foul mouthed as Merman in real life.

I don't want to spend my money to buy it, so I have put a request in for my local public library to get it. They are pretty cool about purchasing titles I suggest, so I will see what happens.

You can get it for $10 bucks or so - some nice photos......worth it if you're a fan.....otherwise, library, yes.

It's actually quite a boring book. Loaded with details about who did the catering and who didn't but not a lot of meat, if you know what I mean. The book revealed NOTHING I didn't know from reading about Valley for years and years, except maybe that Paul Burke was a slut. Nonetheless, it's a good way to kill and afternoon since you can't get close enough to anyone poolside to have a conversation.

Judy apparently made off with at least one of her costumes from VOTD; the glittery pantsuit. She would do that, take costumes she liked and keep them. It was a shitty thing to do, but hey, that was Judy.

I think that's the same pantsuit (a replica of course) that Renee wore in "Judy" during the London concert scenes

Judy famously wore the VOTD pantsuit in her 1967 show at the Palace in New York.

[quote]I liked the new book - it went through all of the writers who worked on the script, including Harlan Ellison, the Sci-Fi guy who started it.....

Harlan Ellison write the classic "Star Trek" episode "The City on the Edge of Forever," which featured Miss Joan Collins. He also wrote the screenplay for "The Oscar," a movie that's just as campy as "Valley of the Dolls" and possibly even funnier.

I thinking the ending of Valley of the Dolls, with Barbara Parkins walking in the snow was the best part of the film.

[quote]I think that's the same pantsuit (a replica of course) that Renee wore in "Judy" during the London concert scenes.

Two actually. Both cheap replicas. The VOD suit fabric was patterned. No one god-damned sequin or bugle bead. The white version with the red scarf was probably the same since you didn't see it up close.

Fox gave Judy the pantsuit according to published reports. She then had one in red and one in when whipped up by Travilla at a cost of $1500 each.

[quote] “I'm Neely O' Hara, pal! That’s ME singin’ on that jukebox!“

"Neely O'Hara sings like a bird. You sound like a frog!"

The bitch is wearing flats while tromping out in the snow in R106's clip.

"I wonder what happened to Neely O'Hara.

They SAY she had laryngitis!"

Diane Baker as Anne

Lucie Arnaz as Neely

Raquel Welch as Jennifer

And Miss Helen Lawson as Helen Lawson

Raquel Welch was too hard edged to play Jennifer.

“I feel a little... top-heavy.”

Have heard the book is OK but covers no new ground.

Assuming the usual suspects are involved. I know one of the movie critic folks I see and read a lot on social media (Alonso Duralde) is a fan and was on the DVD for one of the VOTD editions released in the last few years, so wondering if he is in the book.

Chrissy Metz would make a great Neely if it was remade today.

A wonderful Vanity Fair piece on Jacqueline Susann from the early 2000s. She had balls of steel, lots of difficulties in her life.

“Who’s stoned? I’m merely traveling incognito!”

R74, it's in paperback too. I own it.

You're being obnoxious, R74.

What the hell does r124 know? r74 didn't get dough handed to them because of their good cheekbones - they worked for it!

"Duke was twice the actress Parkins was."

And five times the lunatic.

I suppose it's worth mentioning there's a four hour long TV version from 1981 and a TV series from 1994. They're both modern updates (Neely becomes a rock star, for example) that take considerable liberties with the novel and they both commit the unpardonable sin of being just dull and boring.

A faithful adaptation of the book that takes place from the mid-forties to the mid-sixties should be done, it would be interesting. I could see it as a limited series on Netflix.

I agree with whoever posted that a miniseries depicting the Making of Valley of the Dolls would be far more interesting. Many consider VOTD the greatest bad movie of all time. I am one of those. Even a well-made update of the book could never compare with the joys of the original.

Ryan Murphy - are you reading??

[quote]r127 I suppose it's worth mentioning there's a four hour long TV version from 1981.

I was a fantastic Helen Lawson for 94 episodes.

If it's remade, it'll either be dull backstage stuff or a campfest.

Just read on Instagram from a writer’s post who worked the ill-fated Betty Thomas reboot, Kelly Preston shows up at a table read to play HELEN LAWSON

Betty Thomas? Shelley Long should have given her spin on Helen Lawson.

In the late 2000s There was a reboot in preproduction at paramount to be directed by Betty Thomas who was a profitable director during that time Don’t know why it fell apart

I fisted Lyon Burke! (Actually the guy that played him in the 1994 soap version)

[quote]r268 So when Elizabeth is gone and Charles becomes king...

Big Liz will quite probably realize she made a colossal mistake letting Harry and Meghan get away, and try to leapfrog them up onto the throne.

Not that they'd accept. The BRF missed the boat, in that regard.

R66

“ Around the time of its release my mother and two of my aunts, all three sisters-in-law, did a recreation of the movie poster with the three principles posing on a bed. ”

Oh Dear

[quote]If it's remade, it'll either be dull backstage stuff or a campfest.

Why bother? The original was a campfest to end all campfests, and no one is interested in a dull, backstage rendition of Susann's tacky novel.

"Fox gave Judy the pantsuit according to published reports. She then had one in red and one in when whipped up by Travilla at a cost of $1500 each."

I somehow doubt that Fox "gave" Judy Garland an expensive costume. If reports said otherwise it was probably to disguise the situation, that dear little Judy made off with it. And I doubt that Billy Travilla "whipped up" any costumes for Garland. Her figure was so odd that nothing could be "whipped up" for her. And they cost $1500 each? Where did she get the money for that? She was always broke. $1500 was a lot of money back then; adjusted for inflation, $1,500.00 in 1967 is equal to $11,716.14 in 2020.

[quote] Many consider VOTD the greatest bad movie of all time. I am one of those.

I don't think I would. The sections without Patty Duke and Susan Hayward are too slow-going and dull.

I would give that distinction to "Reefer Madness" or "Showgirls"--they move more quickly.

[quote]I somehow doubt that Fox "gave" Judy Garland an expensive costume. If reports said otherwise it was probably to disguise the situation, that dear little Judy made off with it. And I doubt that Billy Travilla "whipped up" any costumes for Garland. Her figure was so odd that nothing could be "whipped up" for her. And they cost $1500 each? Where did she get the money for that? She was always broke. $1500 was a lot of money back then; adjusted for inflation, $1,500.00 in 1967 is equal to $11,716.14 in 2020.

May 15, 1968 Chicago Tribune "Strangler Wil Stalk in Style" Norma Lee Browning. "...When Judy Garland was fired from the picture, 20th magnanimously gave her the glittering sequined pants suit she was supposed to wear as Helen Lawson. Judy like it so much she ordered three more exactly like in different colors, for her New York and Las Vegas concerts."

As for "whipping up two more suits, considering he already had her measurements and patterns from the firs pants suit, not too difficult to make them in other colors. (Garland was paid $35,000 after all was said and done, so yes, she did have the funds.

Sold at Christie's East June 19 1990

Lot 491: A Judy Garland Two-Piece Stage Outfit 1969 designed by Travilla. The cream pant-suit embroidered with rub Austrian crystals beads, rhinestones and paste gems on foliate and paisley pattern overall the lined jacket with narrow lapels and false front pockets and rhinestone buttons. Label reads Travilla. With matching slacks having rear zipper with Travilla label.

Lot 492: A Judy Garland Two-Piece Stage Outfit 1969 designed by Travilla. The red pant-suit embroidered with rub Austrian crystals beads, rhinestones and paste gems on foliate and paisley pattern overall the lined jacket with narrow lapels and false front pockets and rhinestone buttons. Label reads Travilla. With matching slacks having rear zipper with Travilla label.

Bite me R140

^ that should read:

a cream suit with cream sequins, rhinestones and silver and gold Austrian crystal beads.

a red suit with ruby Austrian.

Not to derail things, but what event are Helen Lawson I and Miss Casswell attending together, here?

Nikita Khrushchev's 1959 visit to Los Angeles and a luncheon held for him at Twentieth Century Fox Studios. At one time I had unpublished slides of both Monroe arriving with George Cukor and Garland arriving with June Allison.

[quote]I somehow doubt that Fox "gave" Judy Garland an expensive costume. If reports said otherwise it was probably to disguise the situation, that dear little Judy made off with it

That's what I heard. She was like "Fuck you cunts" and took the wardrobe with her.

Well, you heard wrong.

R147, I'm sending you a gurl puhlease. You know why.

Because I'm sorry isn't in your vocabulary for when you're mistaken?

I don't know what the truth is but to be fair that story about her simply walking off with the pantsuit has made the rounds for decades, even in print.

So has the Lupe Velez death by toilet story.

And how Marilyn Monroe was unable to finish Something's Got to Give cause she was so fucked up on drugs. Then, eight hours of footage is discovered which disproves that theory.

Why would eight hours of footage disprove that theory? The whole movie script wasn't contained in that eight hours of footage.

And Cukor considered most of that footage unusable. Some of it was shown years later in a TV documentary but I don't know whether it is still available.

No it wasn't R153, but there was enough footage of Marilyn to disprove what was said in the papers. And Cukor would've said anything the studio told him to R154.

Found footage restored and assembled into what they had filmed.

"So has the Lupe Velez death by toilet story."

I never heard anything about the Lupe Velez toilet death anywhere except "Hollywood Babylon." But the Judy taking the pantsuit story I've heard lots of places. It certainly sounds like something she would do.

Marilyn Monroe WAS fucked up on drugs and mentally ill during the filming of "Something's Got To Give." That's why she rarely showed up for work and when she didn't couldn't remember her lines.

MM fans say footage of her from the filming of SGTG shows she was giving a wonderful performance. But that's only in the eyes of MM worshippers. I've seen some of that footage; she really does seem "off." And she's completely unconvincing as the mother of two children. Her scenes with the kids seem very forced.

IF you feel the desire to spend two hours watching a documentary about the filming of SGTG, you'll see Monroe was neither fucked up on drugs or crazy. She was however, fighting a nasty case of sinusitus. Fox was going broke on Cleopatra and needed the insurance money shutting down SGTG would provide the studio. Blame it on their star and bingo, rumors and untruths for years.

Was it her best performance? Heavens no. The script stunk. As for the scene with the children, neither of them could act, so does the star bring her performance down to their level or have the children fired and new ones brought in?

BTW, there was a hour or two of Dean and Cyd where they flubbed shit and such, yet they didn't get the rep MM did.

Oh for goodness sake, r156, what was Fox gonna do with the damn pant suit? It just would have ended up at Western Costumes. It's not like they were going to toss it at Susie and say "Here, put this on....you'll wear that."

You sum it up perfectly R159.

Actually, I don't think anyone knows what happened to the Garland VOD suit, but the Hayward suit is owned by a collector and has been on exhibit several times.

[Quote] And she's completely unconvincing as the mother of two children. Her scenes with the kids seem very forced.

I just watched the first ten minutes of the footage at r155. Marilyn is enchanting and very natural with the kids. Poor Cyd, on the other hand, doesn't have the personality or comic chops to make anything of her part.

Outfits were reused on The Love Machine I found out today.

I want a book on Doctors' Wives....

At least two of the Dolls costumes, one Tate and on Duke were used in the non-sequel Beyond the Valley of the Dolls.

"what was Fox gonna do with the damn pant suit?"

Oh, I don't know...reuse it somehow, probably. That's what would usually happen to costumes, especially costly ones. I find it hard to believe the studio would sweetly gift her the costume considering she was fired and behaved like such a bitch. She trashed the very nice dressing room they gave her and damaged an antique pool table they'd generously provided after hearing she liked to play pool.

[quote] Why didn’t they let Helen Lawson play herself?

She was in the can.

[quote]She trashed the very nice dressing room they gave her and damaged an antique pool table they'd generously provided after hearing she liked to play pool.

Judy was in end-stage drug addiction by 1967, her brain was completely fried and she was no longer herself. You know the homeless people you see acting crazy on the street? That's essentially what she had become by then. Very sad story.

[quote]She trashed the very nice dressing room they gave her and damaged an antique pool table they'd generously provided after hearing she liked to play pool.

Lorna, put down the iPad.

[quote]I just watched the first ten minutes of the footage at [R155]. Marilyn is enchanting and very natural with the kids. Poor Cyd, on the other hand, doesn't have the personality or comic chops to make anything of her part.

So they ended up with Doris Day and Polly Bergen instead?

I saw Kate Flanagan in Ralph's a couple years ago. I told her she would always be my Neely.

^^ and that’s the way we like it!

Was her coffin open or closed when it was on display for days? And was it wearing one of the stolen pants suits?

GODDAMN IT!!

Above was in response to

[quote] I don't know what the truth is but to be fair that story about her simply walking off with the pantsuit has made the rounds for decades, even in print.

Her coffin was open and thousands of people walked by it at Frank E. Campbell's funeral home. Amazingly, not one picture has surfaced.

There was a blog post years ago from a guy who worked at Campbell's as a young man and retrieved Judy's body from JFK airport, then helped prepare it. Fascinating stuff.

[quote]R159 what was Fox gonna do with the damn pant suit? ... It's not like they were going to toss it at Susie and say "Here, put this on....you'll wear that."

It looks like the negligee made for Cyd Charise was tossed at her replacement Polly Bergen when they did get around to reshooting the script as “Move Over, Darling.”

Just a scintillating bit I thought we all should know...

On Cyd - -

I've read that in addition to her physical weakness, gaunt appearance and erratic behavior, in the end Fox could not insure her, despite the fact that she had done her camera and costume tests and had prerecorded her numbers.

There was a similar situation just a few years earlier with the Broadway production of Mame. Jerry Herman said many times that he wrote the part with her voice in mind but everyone knew she couldn't take the stress of creating a lead part and opening a huge show. Herman still hoped to have her as a replacement after Angela left but negotiations had to be shut down when the producers couldn't get her insured.

After Judy's death the press were already aware of the news before the body could be removed. In an effort to prevent pictures being taken of the corpse, she was apparently draped over someone’s arm like a folded coat, covered with a blanket, and removed from the house with the photographers left none the wiser.

Don't if it's true but I could believe that r577. She was a tiny thing. Early on she was advertised as The Little Girl with the Big Voice.

Don't if it's true but I could believe that r577. She was a tiny thing. Early on she was advertised as The Little Girl with the Big Voice.

It's a damn shame Judy couldn't do Mame. She was born to play that part. One of the great "what ifs" in show business history.

Here's the story from the guy who handled Judy's body.

That damn casket handle story shows up on every Judy thread!

Ha! Ha! Ha!

I'll say!

Judy was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay people were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles and she theirs.

R184: Basically you're describing just about every fag hag---difficult and only able to get along with the gays.

I honestly don't think Judy Garland ever had what could rightly be called "a good heart." She was selfish, willful, demanding. She told a lot of lies She loved entertaining and she thought lies were more entertaining than the truth. She'd lie her ass off to psychiatrists, so therapy did nothing for her. She was not known for doing kind deeds for other people. She was NOT like the characters she played onscreen. She was NOT Betsy Booth, or Dorothy Gale or Esther Smith or Esther Blodgett. She was Judy Garland, a movie star from age 13, and she was used to getting her way. No, she was not in possession of a "good heart."

Debbie Reynolds suggested otherwise.

I would think the slip would have been purchased, not built. r175. I think they would have just purchased a new one for Polly. Or at least told her they did.

"Debbie Reynolds suggested otherwise."

Who cares what Debbie Reynolds said? She wasn't exactly the best judge of character.

[quote]r188 I would think the slip would have been purchased, not built. [R175]. I think they would have just purchased a new one for Polly. Or at least told her they did.

I don't think so. Jean Louis (a star in his own right) designed the wardrobe for the initial version. Studios didn't often just purchase the women's clothes off the rack for big productions back then. At least, not for stars like Cyd Charisse and Marilyn Monroe in frothy, luxurious comedies.

That "slip" (actually a nightgown) is as elaboratly crafted as an evening dress. It was probably reused not only because it was beautiful, but because it had cost substantial money to create. It also matched the existing bedroom set it would appear on. The whole reason the script was reshot the next year with Doris Day was because the studio had invested quite a bit in the sets, etc., which were all saved when the Monroe version was stalled.

In this still, it also looks like Bergen may be wearing Charisse's coat from the opening scene in r155. So it seems they did some recycling of the costumes where they could.

I think I just fell in love r190.

[quote]r177 After Judy's death the press were already aware of the news before the body could be removed. In an effort to prevent pictures being taken of the corpse, she was apparently draped over someone’s arm like a folded coat, covered with a blanket, and removed from the house with the photographers left none the wiser.

Gosh, I hope I'm that thin some day!

Judy was the sole support of three children and three worthless parasite husbands.

We sort of met her twice, even exchanged a few words with her, as she was being escorted from dressing room/stage door to limousine, when we were very young.

Judy wasn't the "sole support" of Liza. Vincente Minnelli was always there to provide for Liza and LIza became self-sufficient very early. I think she was earning her own living when she was a teenager. I guess she was the sole support for Lorna and Joey at times but she was so bad at it that they fled to be with their father Sid Luft. I heard somewhere that a servant, taking pity on Lorna and Joey, went out and bought some clothes and food for them. Imagine that...Judy Garland, of the biggest movie stars of all time, who made millions, unable to provide food and clothing for her children. It boggles the mind.

So many famous actresses and singers back then had husbands who were worthless parasites. And many of these husbands blew through their wives' $$$ and left them broke. That's something that happened a lot back in that era.

Sid Luft ate off Judy's plate unti the day he died ("The Judy Garland Show" etc.).

R186 is Deanna Durbin.

Hi Deanna. Waving back isn't necessary.

R197, Deanna Durbin is resting peacefully after a very successful career and a long life (91 years). She had a lot of class; she never said an unkind word about Judy Garland. Judy however, possessing NO class, frequently made fun of the prettier, definitely more talented as a singer Deanna. Judy was indeed a bitch. A jealous bitch.

[quote]r196 Sid Luft ate off Judy's plate unti the day he died ("The Judy Garland Show" etc.).

I thought he actually whipped her into shape and got her working again?

"I thought he actually whipped her into shape and got her working again?"

He wasn't nearly as bad as she made him out to be. And he hung in the longest; he was married to crazy Judy for 13 years.

Sid Luft had an insane gambling addiction. That's where most of Judy's money went.

So many of these old-time actresses entrusted their husband du jour with their finances, which was such a colossal mistake. Many of them ended up broke. They should've used professional financial managers and told their husbands to go fuck themselves.

Of course Sid would stay married to Judy. He made sure to milk her for all she was worth, She made him money and he gambled it away.

Oh, please. Judy Garland LET incompetent men make her financial decisions for her. She knew nothing about how to handle money and had no desire to learn; she just thought it would always be there. She'd spend money and never consider that it was disappearing at a fast and furious rate. People make choices and Judy Garland always chose to have someone else be in control of what she made. If the people she put in charge were no good, well that was her choice. Judy was ALWAYS making bad choices.

Mark H had some Mary Jane growing in the backyard in the 1970s and the cops knocked on the door one day.

Guess who snitched? Sid Luft. Why? Because Mark took his meal ticket away, for a time.

She made him money and he gambled it away.

Actually he bought Deanna Durbin albums.

Oh....wait.

R195, Excuse me?

STFU Gary.

You didn't talk you-know-who out of Mame.

R162, They had John Phillip Law wear suits made for Brian Kelly without even having them tailored.

Hilarious clip from "The Love Machine".

Dyan Cannon would have been a much better Neely than Patty Duke.

[quote]r208 They had John Phillip Law wear suits made for Brian Kelly without even having them tailored.

I met JPL in W.Hollywood around 2005, a few years before he died, and didn't know who he was. Even though he was about 70, he struck me as so handsome... the type an agent would stop on the street to say, "Hey, have you ever considered becoming an actor?"

[quote]r210 Dyan Cannon would have been a much better Neely than Patty Duke.

Dyan Cannon is NOT a Neely!

And I'm the fag who can prove it.

R212 = Cary Grant

R209, that clip is a camp classic! Does anyone know where to watch 'The Love Machine' online?

Jacqueline Susann wanted Grace Kelly to come out of retirement and take the role of Judith in The Love Machine. No joke. Jackie really thought there was a chance. Judith in TLM was the mega-socialite wife of the television network president, she was obviously based on Babe Paley. Susann was disappointed when Dyan Cannon was cast in the part, because she didn't think Cannon was "classy" enough for the character.

Once...

Brenda's Oscar nom...

R215, After her Oscar nomination for "Bob&Carol&Ted &Alice", Dyan worked non-stop in film after film during the 1970s.

"Doctors' Wives", "The Anderson Tapes", "The Love Machine", "Shamus", "The Last of Sheila", "Such Good Friends", etc.

R215, If the citizens of Monaco were against Grace returning to Hollywood to appear in a Hitchcock movie, "Marnie", they would have been aghast if she'd done so to film a Jacqueline Susann trashy novel.

Jackie was right about Dyan Cannon......

Patty Duke was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay people were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles and she theirs.

Was Bacharach pursued for the movie? His songs wouldn't have been "Broadway" of course, but they wouldn't have been shit. He and Hal David were in their songwriting prime as a partnership.

The songs in this movie are utterly wretched.

“Come Live with Me” plays on a loop in hell’s waiting room.

Did Streisand ever cover "I'll Plant My Own Tree"?

Yes, as "I'll Clone My Own Dog."

[quote]Did Streisand ever cover "I'll Plant My Own Tree"?

Streisand recorded some pretty bad songs over the years, but even she wouldn't have done within 100 miles of that stinker.

It's obvious Neely's understudy was supposed to look like Babs.

^^ . . . wouldn't have gone within 100 miles . . . ^^

Only the hairstyle, r227...

I wonder how Miss Nanette Fabray would have been as Helen.

Dolores' "How 'bout show business?" after 13:19 is pure Helen Lawson.

R226, Lena rocked it . . .

[R157] I agree. Marilyn was shaky and unfocused in most of the footage although she looked spectacular. [R158] It wasn't a lousy script. It was a remake of the classic comedy MY FAVORITE WIFE and MOVE OVER, DARLING, the version of it that was released in 1963 with Doris Day and James Garner, was a major hit. Marilyn personally gave input on the script to screenwriter Nunnally Johnson, an A-lister with many hits to his credit including Marilyn's own HOW TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE. The movie was never meant to be Oscar bait - it was intended as a glossy, crowd-pleasing, big studio entertainment. Marilyn couldn't deliver. If you believe the "sinusitis" nonsense you must be very naive. The fact that she died shortly after production was shut down (yes, I know she was rehired, yadda yadda) proves what a mess she was. People need to remember that Marilyn chose to be a "victim" out of some perverse compulsion. Billy Wilder famously called her "the meanest woman in Hollywood" for all of the suffering she caused her colleagues. She was fucking impossible.

"Billy Wilder famously called her "the meanest woman in Hollywood" for all of the suffering she caused her colleagues."

I thought that title belonged to Hedda Hopper.

But I was the meanest Spic in pictures.

The 1994 late-night soap was a hot mess. Somebody uploaded a bunch of episodes to DailyMotion, but they're all dubbed in Ukrainian or something.

I did my own dubbing.

R237, We could tell.

Actually 234, I knew Evelyn Moriarty, Monroe's stand-in on SGTG, The Misfits and Let's Make Love. We'd stand outside smoking cigarettes at the Los Angeles based fan club meetings back in the mid-90s. She confirmed Monroe was sick as she visited Marilyn at her 5th Helena home several times, bringing chicken soup and of how the script was changed daily, so the lines learned the night before weren't the lines being filmed the next day.

I also discussed with the film's production designer, Gene Allen, who was pro-Cukor, of MM's illness and he confirmed it and that Cukor was being difficult because he really didn't want to be working on this film,, so he was fucking things up on purpose.

I've read multiple versions of the script, formerly held in the Special Collections at UCLA (before Fox came and reclaimed them.) The Johnson script had a more serious and darker tone than the Walter Bernstein script producer David Brown decided to shoot. Martin's character attempts suicide after Monroe takes the children and leaves, and the children are a couple of years older and smarter, figuring out who MM is by way of an old photograph. Plus it ends with them gathered on the beach listening to the radio report of John Glenn's space mission.

I have even stood over the swimming pool which is still there on the 20th-Century Fox Studios lot in the floor of Stage 14 circa 1999.

A bit of the Bernstein script and some of the costumes and sets were kept for the Day version, but much was tailored to Doris' personality. Monroe's nude swimming scene was exchanged for Day going through a car wash in a convertible with the top down. The mother-in-law in the Day version is Mrs. Duncan, the housekeeper in the MM version. The Swedish housekeeper is the same, but Monroe doesn't manhandle Cyd the way Doris manhandled Polly in the remake. Garner was a poor replacement for Martin.

None of this of course has anything to do with the Dolls book. So let's just agree to disagree and get back to the original subject.

Hmm?

Bite me Widow Bono.

I still get a shitload of fan mail from the Slavs.

R239, Garner was a poor replacement for Martin? You have to be kidding. James Garner was one of the few actors who could be incredibly funny and incredibly sexy all at the same time.

Tom Tryon would have been a much better Stephen Burkett ("Adam") than the Chuck Connors we ended up with.

Nope. Poor man's Nicholas Arden and a second rate Matt Helm aka Jim Rockford.

The Valley of the Dolls: 50th Anniversary Edition is on sale today for $1.99 .

Such a deal.