Marlene Dietrich - "No one ever attempted to compete with Garbo, she was unique."

Dietrich was speaking as one exotic and carefully constructed personality with an interesting real personality about another.

But Garbo was unique. Not playing the game too visibly helped build her mystique, and proving that she was similar to that image made her a legend.

And she was fearless while being very private.

Even Garbo was impressed by Garbo. She once said something like "There will never be another one. I'm different inside."

I came close.

Like Marilyn decades later, Garbo was a big star who spawned many imitators. Rival studios rushed to find their own version of Garbo in order to capitalize on the exotic female sphinx trend. Paramount imported Dietrich from Germany, while Samuel Goldwyn got Ukrainian beauty Anna Sten. There was also Tala Birell from Romania for Universal; David O. Selznick discovery, Gwili Andre, imported from Denmark for RKO; Charlie Chaplin discovery Sari Maritza, who, despite the exotic name, was actually British; and Italian beauty Isa Miranda, signed to Paramount after Dietrich departed. Even Garbo's own studio, MGM, signed on Thalberg discovery, the Austro-Hungarian Eva von Berne, and promoted her as the "New Garbo."

Only Dietrich, however, emerged a star in her own right. All the others pretty much disappeared once war loomed and American audiences' tastes shifted back to homegrown, girl-next-door types.

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R4 What am I, chopped liver?!

Dietrich was so much like Garbo she pretty much disproved that. I guess the difference was that Dietrich was so carnal while Garbo was mostly so unapproachable.

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Marlene entertained troops on the front line. That probably extended her career by 30 years while Garbo was forever stuck in a 30s screen goddess time warp.

A newcomer named Joan Crawford completely stole Grand Hotel right from underneath Garbo. Crawford was in awe of her during filming, but Garbo was a diva and wouldn't even acknowledge her.

R40 agree about Crawford in Grand Hotel. When the war broke out, a lot of stars led by Bette Davis (I think) set up the Hollywood Canteen. Servicemen could meet a real movie star. All the big stars including Dietrich joined with in gusto, did their bit for the boys etc. All but Garbo. Maria Riva says in bio Garbo remained remote in her ivory tower, hastening her own extinction. Something like that. Anyway there was a new Swedish star in town, Ingrid Bergman, who had a much broader appeal than Garbo.

[quote]while Garbo was forever stuck in a 30s screen goddess time warp.

Garbo was forever stuck in a ‘30s time warp because she retired in 1941. Dietrich continued making good movies for 20 years after that.

I find Marlene a more fascinating movie star than Garbo. Garbo may have had better (or more memorable) pictures, but outside of celluloid, she was a bore. She never made public appearances, she rarely ever gave interviews, not much was known about her private life, no scandals, marriages, children, adoptions, nada! And then she up and retired and never looked back. A total, solitary, enigma.

Marlene, on the other hand, took on many celebrated lovers, and flaunted them publicly. She entertained the troops on the front lines, danced with the GIs at the Hollywood Canteen, sold war bonds alongside Carole Lombard. She made many public appearances, and guest starred on tv variety shows, radio shows, etc. And when her movie career dried up, she took her act on the road and performed until her 60s. She was a true performer, whereas Garbo was a shy, accidental star.

Dietrich said that because she knew damned well they brought her from Germany to be Paramount's answer to Greta Garbo.

She had different qualities in the end that Garbo did, but she was too egotistical to admit why she was brought to the US.

[quote] When the war broke out, a lot of stars led by Bette Davis (I think) set up the Hollywood Canteen. Servicemen could meet a real movie star. All the big stars including Dietrich joined with in gusto, did their bit for the boys etc. All but Garbo.

Why should she have joined the Canteen? Her movie career ended when "Two-Faced Woman" came out, and that was BEFORE Pearl Harbor.

R10/R11, even Pauline Kael noted that Crawford was amazing in Grand Hotel. She said that she did not seem like the monster she would end up becoming

Marlene is so much funnier than Garbo--she has so many great lines in Touch of Evil.

R15, "Two-Faced Woman" may have been Garbo's last film, but she had several projects lined up and had no intention of retiring at that point. She had signed on to do "The Girl from Leningrad" in 1942, and "The Wicked Duchess" ("La Duchesse de Langeais") for Max Ophüls in 1948, but both projects ran out of funds. Garbo's star had dimmed somewhat in the US, so her films relied on the European market for financial support, but that market lay in shambles during and after the war. She was also in talks to do "The Paradine Case" for Hitchcock in 1947, and "My Cousin Rachel" for George Cukor in 1952, but both deals fell through.

Garbo was criticized at the time for not doing anything for the war effort, but if certain British spy is to be believed, she supposedly collected information about Nazi sympathizers in Sweden for the British Secret Intelligence Service.

Garbo was also a citizen of neutral Sweden.

R13, I think it’s fairly clear Dietrich had the more enduring films. Garbo has Grand Hotel, which is known more as a star vehicle than a great film, and her other major works haven’t really remained in the public consciousness, even among followers of classic films. Dietrich’s collaborations with Josef von Sternberg are more widely seen than Queen Christina or Anna Christie or Camille, and even Ninotchka feels very much like a Cold War curio.

And after Garbo retired, Dietrich did Touch of Evil and Witness for the Prosecution in the fifties. They might not be either director’s absolute best, but even solid Welles and Wilder movies will always maintain a greater interest than ones by Clarence Brown.

Garbo is hilarious in "Ninotchka", poking fun at her own serious image and creating a charming comic character at the same time.

Who is today's Garbo? Who is today's Dietrich?

Where is the mystique, glamour?

Ann, honey! I watched you in Easter Parade last night. What a performance! What was Peter Lawford like?

[quote] Who is today's Garbo?

I vant to be alone....

[quote] Who is today's Dietrich?

"Falling in love again, what am I to do? Never vanted to, I can't help it..."

^^ God, no to both.

Who is that homely woman in r24?

Brie Larson, professional cheesehead actress.

Dietrich 2.0

Dietrich 3.0

"What am I bid for my apples?"

Seriously, Ariana Grande is the only one from this generation that has that magic that a young Crawford, Garbo or Dietrich had. She was born with that special gene. She needs the right vehicle to show it off, like a Mildred Pierce remake.

^^ She looks more the Lupe Velez type. (Look her up)

Or maybe Ariana is a Jinx Falkenburg!

Why did Lupe Velez kill herself? Has a movie been made about her life?

^^ She got dumped by Gary Cooper, king of Hollywood sizemeat.

R31is , seriously, one of the most inane things Ive ever read on DL.

I know Garbo was considered the great actress, but I’ve always preferred Dietrich—and I think she should have gotten Oscar nominations for two late, very different performances, “Witness for the Prosecution” and “Judgment at Nuremberg.” While Garbo always seemed removed from the world, I felt like Fietrich, equally glamorous, made both those women very real and human.

R34, R35, the relationship with Cooper ended in 1931. Lupe had since married an divorced Johnny Weismuller. She killed herself because she was pregnant with up-and-coming Austo-American actor Harald Ramond's child. Ramond refused to marry her and told her to get an abortion. She, being a devout Catholic, wouldn't dare abort her baby, so she killed herself instead (!) After those revelations, Ramond's Hollywood career was over.

[quote] A newcomer named Joan Crawford completely stole Grand Hotel right from underneath Garbo.

Totally agree with this. Crawford was around the same age as Garbo was (and possibly even older) but she seemed so fresh and relaxed onscreen that she made Garbo look like an ancient hammy fossil left over from the silent era in comparison. Garbo must have been fuming when she saw the film.

It's also hard to believe she was only 26 when it was made. She looked fucking old in it.

I vont to be a lawn.

Crawford was not a newcomer when she did Grand Hotel (1932), having become an above-the-title star in Our Dancing Daughters in 1929 after a dozen silent films at MGM. However, she was able to change her flapper image into a serious actress with GH.

Joan was still a newcomer at that point. I still can't believe that she didn't get an Oscar nomination for that film. It was easily the best performance she ever gave onscreen. Who would have ever guessed that she would go from being so fresh and innocent to the gargoyle caricature she became later in her career.

After Grand Hotel and The Women, I would have predicted that Joan would go on to become a bigger star, and better actress, than Bette Davis, but it wasn't meant to be. What happened? During that short period, you couldn't take your eyes off her when she was onscreen.