Who was the greatest socialite of all time?

Paris Hilton

Op has nailed it on this thread. Dina Merrill hands down. And to have all that she had PLUS compassion and a healthy sense of humor is almost unheard of. (We’ll just have to forgive her and her family that little peccadillo of selling their Mar-a- Lago estate to Trump.)

Love Dina Merrill. Can't touch her.

In their day, Dina Merrill and Cliff Robertson made such a gorgeous couple. They were married in 1966 and divorced in 1989. Cliff died in 2011 at the age of 88.

I always considered DM more of an actress than a socialite. I'd go for Brooke Astor after the death of Vincent A.

Who’s Barbara Frazier, OP?

Porfirio Rubirosa made the most number of people happy.

Dina didn't spend the majority of her time being a socialite. Brooke Astor did, and she did it very well. She used her social clout to raise hundreds of millions of dollars for good, NYC causes - not elite causes, and she spent down the foundation she controlled. She was kind and fun and appreciated lots of different kinds of people - she was not a snob when she didn't need to be. Not a beauty, she could be very glamorous in her elder years. Kitty Hart was a pretty good socialite, too. The social X-rays were great, too, though maybe not admirable by the general public. They were Grand Guignol great.

Alva Erskine Smith Vanderbilt Belmont was a great socialite who busted into the 400 in spectacular fashion (as Mrs. W. K. Vanderbilt - and her ball - read about it). The orginal Mrs. Astor (Caroline Webster "Lina" Schermerhorn Astor) was the social doyenne who allowed the new money in. They both get an nod for "great" socialites.

Princess TNT was a great socialite. Also Luisa, Marchesa Casati Stampa di Soncino.

Nan Kempner

Nan Kempner 's children didn't like her--they found her cold and uninterested in them, and she paid attention to them only when they rebelled. She didn't want to give them any attention when they were little, but then she was unhappy when they rebelled.

Had no idea Miss Merrill was so well-endowed!

Lynn Wyatt is the heart of Texas, and an internationally-renowned hostess and philanthropist.

Of all time?

Caroline Astor

Consuelo Vanderbilt, Brooke Astor

Babe Paley

Joan Crawford’s dinner parties were the stuff of legend. She was known as an excellent hostess.

All Time?

Caroline Astor. Hands down.

DL Time?

Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis, of course. NO question.

Caroline Schermerhorn Astor was a dowdy old cunt who couldn't get anything done without Ward McAllister.

I do love Lynn Wyatt, I can’t lie.

Marie Antoinette. She helped bring down a world power that can be linked to WWI & WWII.

[quote]Who’s Barbara Frazier, OP?

I lived through Brenda Frazier, and I'm here.

Mrs. Stuyvesant ("Mamie") Fish was right up there with Mrs. Astor. She came later, and was the queen of NYC society after Caroline Schermorn Astor--and unlike Mrs. Astor, she was famous for having great fun at and through her parties.

A lady does not point. Lynn Wyatt cancelled.

Pamela Digby Churchill Hayward Harriman.

Certainly not me. I was a mess. But I was Dina Merrill's cousin, so there's that.

R22 she would be the greatest courtesan & power hungry serial husband hunter of all time... not the greatest socialite.

Sorry, that should be "Caroline Schermerhorn Astor."

Mrs. Astor was a big deal not simply because she was an Astor, but because from birth she was a Schermerhorn--they were among THE preeminent Old Knickerbocker families in NYC at mid-century, along with the Van Rensselaers, the Rhinelanders, the Schuylers, the Van Cortlandts, and the Livingstons. They were all so eminent they looked right down their noses at Vanderbilts and their ilk, whom they considered nouveau riche upstarts.

(Weird fact: Alison Brie, best known for "Mad Men" and "Community" and "Glow," was born Alison Brie Schermerhorn, and is a distant offshoot of this family.)

I'm partial to Bunny. Not a beauty but such a lovely and tasteful woman.

Samuel Ward McAllister was serviceable, certainly, and performed as needed. Lina tolerated him for that reason until he, like Truman Capote much later, confused his usefulness with his own status and was drummed out of the society R16 mistakenly believes Ward "founded."

Pshaw. Poseurs.

Evangeline Bruce

What is it about a socialite that would make them 'great'?

Style and good works.

Barbara Hutton. I entertained her hairdresser, "Rico"; he was my own Porfirio Rubirosa; when not riding him :) he would regale me with unbelievable stories about her generosity to him, the over-the-top lifestyle and everything that went with it.

Her incidents with Doris Duke are legendary . . .

I just found a note from Rico the other day when going through my papers; he was headed to Berlin & asking what happened to me & wishing me good luck. (Yes, we did write notes to each other then!) Truth be told, I had to give him up because he was just too big! Great, passionate & tender lover! I will never forget those days (& especially nights!)

[Quote]Gloria Vanderbilt springs instantly to mind but that dreadful hairdo negates any of her accomplishments,

A quintessential DL remark. 😝

Jemima Goldsmith Khan

Charlotte Gainsbourg

Nan Kempner was a hoot and a half.

Sue Ellen Mishke

Jackie On Assistance. No contest.

Jackie On Assistance was a First Lady and later a book editor. She can hardly be described as "a socialite", although there is no doubt she wielded the same social power as a top Socialite. More, actually.

R38 she was peak socialite. First Lady slash Book Editor who lunches with writers at the Four Seasons is the apex of the socialite.

Socialites don't have jobs, r39, they "do it all for charity", you see.

Jackie literally got that job in order to take herself out of the Socialite category.

Truman Capote that little minx! He threw the Ball of all Balls for a decade!

I love Dina Merrill, esp after I saw her shopping at the LVIS (Ladies Village Improvement Society) in East Hampton. Thrift is in, plus fabulous finds.

Can royals be socialites?

Nancy Cunard fought for a lot of progressive causes and rode the best black dick in the world's capitals. She was a go for broke socialite and went broke and insane.

R6, my bad, I'd had a few beers, but yes, I meant Brenda Frazier!

My goodness OP, Dina Merrill looks more like a trophy wife than an heiress in her own right. I can imagine that a blonde multi-millionair could snag any man she wanted. I wonder if her husbands were hot?

Nadine de Rothschild née Lhopitalier is the plump showgirl who could. She did, and entertained several generations of gay francophones as a beloved figure of high camp and high society.

Marissa Berenson

Aimée de Heeren

Never mind, Dina Merrill's husbands were all basic looking guys.

Mouna Ayoub

Alma de Bretteville Spreckels

Doesn't Europe have socialites? Why so America-centric?

Edith Minturn Sedgwick and Edith Bouvier Beale. Cautionary tales.

R53 I have mentioned several

Gloria Guinness

Another vote for Nedenia.

[quote] Doesn't Europe have socialites? Why so America-centric?

Socialites is more of an American thing. Europe has titled aristocrats who are the equivalent.

Her Serene Highness Princess Caroline Lee Bouvier Canfield Ratziwill Ross

Sao Schlumberger:

Dina Merrill voted and financially backed the Republican party, yet her political views put her more in line with Democrats, and in some areas, she was almost a liberal.

Marie-Helene de Rothschild was great.

The lesser royal families, yes, r43.

But the BRF, the only one left who can lay claim to actual "Majesty", no, because while they are the ones the socialites are aspiring to socialise with, they themselves do not aspire to socialise with anyone.

(Except for the You-know-whos in L.A.)

Prince Aly Khan. Playboy, socialite, descendant of Mohammed and reportedly hung as a horse.

Can’t post a pic right now. Someone do me a favor..,

R50, if you think Cliff Robertson was a basic-looking guy, I'd love to know who you think in Dina Merrill's age group was hot.

Here you go, R64

[quote] What is it about a socialite that would make them 'great'?

Her tits.

Upthread was right - Dina Merrill hated being a socialite and rebelled against that to be an actress. She may have had some major money on both sides of her family and she was a gorgeous blond ice queen, but definitely not a socialite.

Brooke Astor, Nan Kempner were some of the most recently well known.

And no matter what anyone says, Tinsley Mortimer was everywhere at one time. She was a socialite and well-known - although she fell hard.

Ahem.

Ahem.

Is your cancer acting up again, Babe?

Gloria Upson.

R2 , They did not sell it to Trump , Marjorie GAVE it to the US GOVT . .for a summer White House. The GOVT . did not want to pay for the upkeep, so they sold it to the blubbering POHS . I went to her House in DC, Hillwood . They have removed almost all mention of her owning Mar A Lago .

LOVE THIS THREAD !!

Having Anderson Cooper for a Son negates Gloria . He is a pompous Queen .

R46 , Cliff was quite hot back in the day .

DO I ALWAYS HAVE TO TAKE A BACKSEAT TO THAT BITCH SISTER OF MINE .

Muffie Potter Ashton, of course. With Somers Farkas right behind her.

Well I'll let you Homosexualist know one thing . Truman NEVAH sucked MY COCK .

Ugh, BRENDA Frazier, my bad!

Brooke Astor gets my vote but my God what a tragic end. Her son should've gone to prison.

Meeeeee...I'm the worlds oldest Prom Queen and NY Socialite

Caprice Capron Badrutt Hand and Vicomtesse Jacqueline de Ribes

The latter one of the great socialites, the former a very successful courtesan, infamous since the age of 17 in wartime Hollywood.

No mention of Zsa Zsa?

Zsa Zsa was a very cunning linguist

The Gabor Sisters were golddigging whores, not socialites.

True, r84, but, man those Gabor Sisters brought the goods when they appeared on the talk shows of the 60s and 70s.

About 15 years I happened to catch Jennifer Aniston on the "Late Show" with David Letterman. It was very clear she had skillfully, yet so boringly, developed saying words in conversation that said nothing at all.

No wonder a smart guy like Letterman got bored with it all and hung it up

I get it. An "A" Lister like Aniston can't, nor does she have the charisma or talent, to be a raconteur. She has the "Star" aura and a beautiful body, and that's all it took.

Feel free to chime in, R53. Geez, don’t be passive.

R85 they were the Kardashians of their time.

I think R31 is confusing Barbara Hutton with Betty.

The present Aga Khan was a looker in his youth!

The beautiful Jocelyn Wildenstein, of course - a paragon of elegance.

Martha Sharp Crawford von Bülow, aka Sunny, for my disposition (induced by prescription). Married a prince before that Bouvier bimbess.

I agree with the Lynn Wyatt comment. I lived in Houston for a few years and she is the picture of socialite. I know she isnt living in NYC like mosgt of them did or do but she does spend summers in Cap Ferrett and she is in a very chic social swirl in Europe during summers including the royals of Monaco etc etc and has been for decades. But more than that she has an incredible attitude in life and no matter what hurdles are thrown in front of her she overcomes all of them. She exercises constantly even in her 80 s including a personal trainer at the gym and she watches every bite she takes like a hawk. She probably is the same weight or lower than when she was a teen. Great lady. Very much into charitys and doing good for the world. FInally.............. she and her husband, while very rich............... and in the oil business............... are forever democrats. Perfect posture, perfect grooming, perfect clothes.

R8 ‘s reply is why I pay for this site.

Jocelyn Wildenstein is not a socialite.

She thinks she is, R93. What is your official classification - trashy gold digger?

Marylou Whitney. Anything anybody does in Saratoga Springs that is worth doing is there because she decided she wanted it there.

[quote] Lynn Wyatt is the heart of Texas

Excuse me?

[quote]but, man those Gabor Sisters brought the goods when they appeared on the talk shows of the 60s and 70s.

R85. They sure did. They were television personalities and the knew how to entertain...or "bring it" as the expression goes. They weren't appearing on the Merv Griffin Show to sell a book or a movie, they were there as guests to entertain the audience--and that they did in spades no matter how many times they appeared. Not that they were socialites, but Merv had a stable of good ol' broads who could make the show just by being there including Zsa Zsa, Eva Gabor, Pamela Mason, and Hermione Gingold. They were fabulous, so damn funny and dishy as hell, and Merv could draw it out of them, and the audience ate it up.

R87. And NO!, the Gabor sisters were not the Kardashians of their day. The Gabor sisters actually had some talent as specific and limited as it may have been. They were stars. They may have started out as whores, but they became fabulous women with careers that endured for decades. Thy were part of Hollywood, the social scene, A-listers or their day, glamorous, international personalities. You absolutely cannot compare the Gabors to self-promoting, social media Kardashian attractions whose appeal doesn't go much beyond social media. Yes, they are wealthy and in your face, but mainstream society dismisses them and can't get rid of them. No one was ever embarrassed to say they were a fan of the Gabors, and no one really ever wanted to rid of them. They were part of the world they we celebrated. Merv Griffin would not be dishing with the Kardashians they way he did with the Gabors. The Gabors were entertaining and had something to say. The wider society embraced the Gabors. The Kardashians are bland, empty nonentities no matter how many Instagram followers they have.

Lisa Maria Falcone

Excuse me, Mr. or Madam OP.

I must modestly conclude that I am the greatest socialite of all time.

Mrs. Jayne Wrightsman

Betty Hoffstadt Draper Francis who went to Bryn Mawr

Bunny Mellon could hold her own. She went to all the right schools. She knew all the right people. And her grandfather invented Listerine, so she was worth a fortune.

R102, and her husband was a great breeder.

C. Z. & Cornelia Guest

Bunny Mellon was the anti-socialite socialite.

[quote] Gloria Vanderbilt springs instantly to mind

As happy? After her son threw himself to his death from her window, before her eyes??

Mmmmmm, perhaps not.

Lee Radziwill

Millicent Rogers seems like about the only socialite who ever had an original thought (aside from C.Z. Guest and Slim Keith.)

Cuddles Kovinsky

Thelma Chrysler Foy, daughter of automaker Walter Chrysler. Imperious and slightly crazy. A major player in New York and Palm Beach society. Her patronage of the Houses of Balmain and Dior kept her on the best dressed lists for years.

I like Mrs. Foy's style.

Has Judy Peabody been mentioned? She was a socialite, and a philanthropist, as well as an early supporter of GMHC and a caregiver for men with AIDS. A fabulous dame.

R94 Jocelyne is from Lausanne and not especially trashy. She became a fun loving party girl and yes entered the Jet Set through her romances. She was married kinda LATE at 38. I would categorize her has former gold-digger, jet-setter and rich lady. Really RICH. Jet-Setter and Socialite have some overlap but not the same. The kind of socialite we are talking about in this thread can not be a Jet Setter at all. Can be the opposite, in fact. Jet-Setter isn't a category people use much anymore so people call ancient jet-setter's still among us "socialites", out of lexical laziness.

Jocelyne never tried to make herself high profile or a public figure. She didn't do philanthropy and didn't seek status among women known as "socialites" or "best dressed". Nor did she attempt a career in anything. She was just a really rich lady, kind of conventional and insecure, who developed serious body dysmorphic disorder.

By birthright Gloria Vanderbilt had socialite cred but she never showed interest for it. A little bit when young. Gloria was more like her aunt and interested in art, acting, writing, being substantial in some way. She put ZERO effort into being social, hostessing, or being publicly philanthropic. Hardly a socialite at all.

So, R113, is Mrs. Jayne Wrightsman disqualified. The wikipedia article doesn't say much about her parents so I assume she didn't come from a wealthy, socially prominent family. Isn't that a requirement for being a socialite, according to this thread? And yet the New York Times called her "the doyenne of high society" when she passed away. I've been looking at the Metropolitan Museum of Art's website and I see that she and her husband donated many important pieces. I don't know much about her but she certainly looked like a socialite in photographs.

Jayne Wrightsman was a NY socialite. One certainly does not need to be born well.

If you are interested - read about the Four Hundred history. The point of THE original Mrs. Astor was that the Vanderbilts were NEW MONEY and wanted a part in American High Society. In NY particularly, but NY, LI, Newport, Lenox, etc.

Mrs Vanderbilt played here cards carefully and well and bought her family in. It's a game. The last wall was Mrs. Astor. Mrs. Vanderbilt was in her new chateau on 5th with everything in place including many rich and social friends. She planned a spectacular ball and Mrs. Astor was finally a bit put out she had not received her invitation. Mrs. Vanderbilt said she couldn't invite Mrs. Astor because she didn't have her calling card. Mrs. Astor realized she had been played, delivered the card, and from then, the robber barons were allowed into the upper echelons of High Society.

The same thing played out for couples like the Wrightsmans. They arrived, stated their interests, did everything required, and were thus Social People.

It played out extensively again in the 80s, when their were all kinds of New Money being made on Wall Street and by others CEO through Wall Street type investing.

Now Mrs. Vincent Astor was the doyenne and she knew perfectly how to shake down the arrivistes for donations and in return they we're annointed Social People e.g. High Society.

For example, the Donald Trump did not donate in the 80s. His brother Robert and his wife Blaine did donate. And Blaine served very seriously and well in philanthropy, and played all the other games correctly, and was a right and proper Socialite. Ivana - not so much. Also Ivan liked doing business. Anyway, after the divorce, Ivana continued more as. Jet Setter, not a socialite.

See how it works?

This is from the New York Times obituary on Mrs. Jayne Wrightsman. She did come from humble beginnings, married well and was later considered one of the most important women in New York society. The definition of socialite on this thread doesn't seem accurate. Kudos to her for the way she transformed herself.

"She had come a long way from a broken childhood home in Michigan and early years in Los Angeles, where she attended high school, modeled swimsuits, sold gloves in a department store and ran with a crowd of young actors and playboys who took her to the Brown Derby and to parties at William Randolph Hearst’s castle at San Simeon. She was only 24 when she married Mr. Wrightsman, a dashing and divorced oilman from Oklahoma who was president of Standard Oil of Kansas.

Jane Kirkman Larkin was born on Oct. 21, 1919, in Flint, Mich., one of four children of Frederick and Aileen Larkin. Her father headed a construction company. When Jane was about 12, her parents split up. The mother and children moved to Los Angeles. Jane, who added a “y” to her given name, attended Los Angeles High School. She had various jobs and led a busy social life. In a 2003 profile, Vanity Fair said she was popular with “socialites, playboys and aspiring film stars.” She met Mr. Wrightsman at a dinner party and they were married on March 28, 1944. "

typing on phone in transit - pardon my errors

Yes, but certain people on this thread are defining socialite as someone who grew up in a rich, socially prominent family, went to the right schools, never had to worry about money, had the right manners and education, knew the right people from childhood. Mrs. Jayne Wrightsman from Flint, Michigan was definitely not that. I guess I am disagreeing with others on this thread, not you R116.

Well, those types of people can be "socialite by default" but are not necessarily. Nor are all socialites that type of person. Judy Peabody, Brooke Astor, the Bouvier girls, were by default socially prominent. Jackie set herself a different course. Lee became more a Jet Setter than a socialite but she was a socialite too, and was in High Society - goddammit she insisted on it! Tiresome bitch that one. Judy and Brooke were just old style NY Social Doyennes.

You can be a business woman and be a socialite. Barbara Walters got super super "SOCIAL" in the 80s, for example. Really really grand.

Yes, but the other crones mocked those from humble beginnings and who were obliged to work. A nest of vipers.

I've read that during the Gilded Age, rich families like the Astors would turn up their noses at other very wealthy people who may have made their money from department stores, etc. They considered real estate as a more elite way of making money while department store owners were too "merchant class".

Lizzy Windsor. Although poor girl has to work for a living even at her advanced age

The house where Liza was born, 17 Bruton Street, was bombed during the war. Now there is a Chinese restaurant at that address.

*Liz

Liza is someone else.

R25- I read that Alison Brie was half Jewish.

R122: Nothing has changed: the DL looks down on shopbottoms, too.

Ugh. This might be one of the gayest threads ever.

R112 That was Jewish money and not in the Social Register. I don't know my Jewish and High Society history but there is a lot published on it for England, France, Germany/Austria and USA. I think Southern Florida was a site for jewish social climbing before WWII but after, anything goes. Joseph Pulitzer was the only jew in the NY Social Register in 1900.

Brenda Frazier, mentioned upthread, was an anorexic schoolgirl by age 14, "Debutante of the Century" in 1938, Mrs. Shipwreck Kelly from 1941 to 1956, and reduced to this in a famous Diane Arbus photo from 1966 at the age of 45.

She really was the greatest socialite of her time, at least in terms of column inches, but she was just another poor little rich girl with an ambitious mother and a trust fund. And miserably unhappy her entire life.

R128 and wrote about them, too - "Answered Prayers"

The Gabors were basically a a half step up from Charo (another Merv Griffin fave). Eva had some acting talent (not a lot) and seemed a bit less of a caricature than Zsa Zsa. Don't forget that the height of Zsa Zsa's acting career was playing a scientist in "Queen of Outer Space", a campy movie that quickly gets boring. "Green Acres" (Eva's series) was like Strindberg by comparison.

Merv liked having women on who essentially were hags--they often didn't have anything to plug but could be amusing and you knew they were in on the joke that was Merv-----Debbie Reynolds, Hermione Gingold and others. Also, being on his show probably was a gateway to game shows by way of the ones he produced.

Brenda Frazier was such a sad story.

Dina Merrill was worth over 5 Billion dollars when she died The Greatest Socialite of all Time...I would nominate Kathleen Harriman Mortimer.. Kathleen took down her step-mother from HELL Pamela Churchill Harriman(one of the 10 biggest whores in the 2nd part of the 20th century) Even after having her "much older husband" leave her his entire estate. Pamela could not help herself,and started to plunder the Trust funds(for the Harriman family) that she controlled. When it was found out "how much $$$ was missing", Kathleen flew to Paris to meet with the whore(Ambassador to France). forced Pamela to PAY BACK all the monies she stole(and then some).. What was Kathleen's evidence...Pamela's diaries-letters from London in WW2,where she slept with half the free world (Kathleen was her roommate), her loves letters from Gianni Angelli(owned Fiat-most of Northern Italy) and Leland Haywood(Broadway Producer-stole his $$$).. Kathleen Harriman married a Mortimer(Standard Oil of California(....Chevron) Wonderful woman BTW!!!

R122- A good example of MERCHANT class was Huntington Hartford heir to the A&P fortune. His social climbing mother sent to him to one of the MOST prestigious boarding schools in the country St. Pauls where he was ridiculed and ostracized.

don't forget me

I'm blanking on their names but there was a thread in the last year about 2 socialite sisters who married into even bigger wealth/prestige. Anyone remember this thread?

IIRC one of the sisters had a loving marriage & a life of roses while the other sister was not so lucky. She still had wealth/prestige but not the happiness.

Great example that I wasn't aware of, R135. Thanks.

To tell the truth, it was Kitty Carlisle.

Evalyn Walsh McLean. Last owner of the Hope Diamond, plus she got name checked in Cole Porter's "Anything Goes" ("When Mrs. Ned McLean, God bless her, can get Russian Reds to yes her . . .").

Patty Hearst

Jill Zarin forever!!

Peggy Bedford Bancroft, a Standard Oil heiress. Her first husband was Thomas Bancroft, nephew of William Woodward who was murdered by his gold-digger wife Anne. Her second husband was a Prince of the Holy Roman Empire, and her last husband was a French Duke. She died in a car crash after a night of partying in 1977.

R112 Once started to have sex with Judy Peabody's husband Sam at the East Side Sauna. It didn't go very far cause he was very drunk and a disgusting kisser too, and he couldn't remove the studs from his tuxedo shirt.

Judy had very big hair and wore rice powder make-up like Glo Vanderbilt.

How about Aileen Getty? She has done a lot of philanthropy incl aids and environment. And there's the Elizabeth Taylor connection. She was troubled but has been a damn good heiress for abt 30 yrs now.

R143 did that nasty bitch Debbie marry into that family?

Bertha Palmer

[quote] Brenda Frazier was such a sad story.

So is Brendan Fraser.

R99, OP here and I bow to your discerning taste and standards. Susan Richardson (even her NAME is patrician) had it all: the looks, the innate taste, the fame and the goods deeds which she showered upon others (the threads posted here by her are among the funniest I've ever read, so I count them as good deeds).

And yes, I am a man.

Joanne Rowling is probably the biggest philanthropist in the UK currently, she's not even a billionaire any longer as she has donated so much to charity.

Not really a socialite but she gets out occasionally.

Charlotte Ford, daughter of Henry Ford II and ex-wife of Greek shipping magnate Stavros Niarchos. She has a daughter, Elena with Niarchos, but Elena uses "Ford" as her last name. Charlotte was known as one of the most down-to-earth socialites and has a sense of humor about herself and life in general.

Mentioned above, Thelma Chrysler was fierce and a force. When she lived at 740 Park Avenue in New York, her apartment was directly above John D. Rockefeller Jr.'s . He was intimidated by her and avoided her at all costs, even to the extent of using the service elevator if he knew she was looking for him.

Thelma once tried to attack a Hattie Carnegie employee with a pair of fabric shears who didn't live up to Thelma's standards. For that incident alone she deserves to be a DL icon.

Surely the DL socialite of choice should be Ann Woodward, the former showgirl/model who clawed her way into the upper crust, only to “accidentally” shoot her hunky bi husband dead, at close range.

Got off scot free, of course.

^ Until she read the galleys of Capote's Answered Prayers and committed suicide.

OP here. Maybe I have a different, looser definition of socialite. As a kid, the word always meant someone rich, sometimes beautiful but always a well-dressed and coiffed woman who appeared at charity events and galas. I didn't know exactly WHY they were famous, appearing in the magazines or tabloids my parents had or on the national news (occasionally turning up on the local news) but I really didn't know what they *did.*

For instance, to me Bianca Jagger was a socialite. She may have been mostly famous for being Mick's consort, but she was newsworthy, chic and appeared at all the fashionable places, looking fabulous (according to the standards of the time, anyway) and IIRC she did a lot of good for worthy causes.

The Gabor sisters, well, I didn't have a clue what they did (except the one who was on Green Acres) but they were fun and glamorous and they knew how to dress and comport themselves in public, and they were entertaining on Mike Douglas (watched that at my grandma's).

The Kardashians, on the other hand, are all vapid, worthless twats who don't entertain me or anyone else with a brain. They don't provide any wit or intellect or fun or good works to justify their existence. They don't provide anything except "look at me" and "buy this product I'm endorsing so I'll get paid." Absolutely no awareness of art or culture or history, just whatever's trending that they can hijack and make some money off of.

But I never envied the socialites I saw or wanted to emulate them (not that there was much chance of that, being a little blond gay boy). They just seemed really remote and rich and famous for no reason I could fathom. I was aware of them but their lives meant nothing to me, but the decent ones made a difference and had a blast enjoying their wealth and lifestyles.

Today, the definition of a socialite is pretty broad. You don't even really have to be born into wealth anymore to become a socialite. If you can acquire a great deal of wealth, your good looking live an exciting glamorous Jetset lifestyle mix and mingles with celebrities and other wealthy socialites, your pretty much in the club.

I guess I'm looking at this from more of a Hollywood celebutaunt standpoint. And not really so much the traditional NYC society social scene.

At least that's how I've always looked at the definition of a socialite.

I suspect there is some mathematical equation that could answer the question once and for all. For example: $$ wealth * style factor * cuntiness / marriages * chldren

It’s extremely difficult to reach the top - you have to be accepted by the other socialites and you won’t find a meaner, richer crowd.

Lisa Dean Moseley, who was an heir to the Dupont billion dollar fortune was an interesting person. She was reclusive and lived on her Delaware estate, serendip.

Dominick Dunn covered her on his crime show about the world of the wealthy elite. She allegedly put a hit out on her son's girlfriend/wife in a sleazy las Vegas motel, for $15K. And had her subordinate husband be the fall guy.

Of course she got away with it, she was a Dupont after all. She died a few years ago at age 87. I've always found her and that story fascinating.

Who among us has not wanted to knock off a family member or their sleazy bf/gf/spouse. I'm sure that $15K was just pocket change for her.

R156 It's never been so broad as to include people like the Gabors and the Cardashians. Celebrities, yes. Socialites? No.

Today all bets are off, but to be a socialite once meant being in society, either by birth; the usual route, or accomplishment, one that's almost always marital and not financial, at least for a generation or two. Henry Ford was a prime example: a farm boy who made a lot of money and got a lot of publicity but would never (nor likely wish to) be listed in the Social Register. His son Edsel and his wife were, though, as were their children and no wonder: they made and gave away millions of dollars. Others would be the Middletons, Mom and Dad. Celebrities because of their wealth but even that AND the fact their daughter will one day be the Queen of England doesn't elevate them per se, but it certainly puts their daughter on a higher plane when every woman in the UK has to curtsy to her. Or, like Anne Woodward mentioned above, one of Dominick Dunne's "Two Mrs. Grenvilles," you can achieve a place in society, however tenuous, by marriage despite some blots on your past but you lose it when your reason for being there - your husband - is dead. Especially if you shot him.

To be a socialite in Hollywood seems impossible. There's little if any anonymous giving and no effort to help others that doesn't accrue benefits, starting with publicity, to the giver. Plus, it's not very fertile ground. I had a friend (she's passed away, like most of her peers) who was indeed, considered to be part of Los Angeles "Society" but whose family had then lived in California for only about 100 years. By way of contrast, in NYC one's forebears would have had to arrived before the American Revolution if not on the "Nieuw Amsterdam" in 1624 for inclusion. My friend's family were lemon ranchers, but over the years ended up owning a lot of land in the Valley that got turned into housing lots making her incredibly wealthy, Judy Garland a neighbor (she was always taking care of the kids when Judy was out of it) in Beverly Hills and ZsaZsa was once a tenant when they went to Europe for a year, ZsaZsa was between divorces, and rented their home. Elinor headed several charities and worked with Dorothy Chandler to raise the money to build the first hall in LA's Music Center, headed the Alliance Francaise, and supported music students through scholarships, all with little or no personal publicity. There's a big difference between doing things like that and being a celebrity.

Ethel Barrymore once said it best: "Society in Los Angeles is anyone with a high school diploma."

R161 Is your friend Betsy Bloomingdale? She was an LA socialite and really close life long friends with former first lady Nancy Reagan.

By the way, I read that Nancey Reagan was referred to as a socialite while she was first lady. Because of her extravagant ways.

Ii wasn't born until the late 80s, but I know a lot about these people from things I've come across over the years.

R73, you are partially wrong. Marjorie Merriweather Post did give Mar A Lagos to the Federal Government as a Summer White House but they gave it back. Too lavish, too expensive to keep up and poor security as right under the Airport flight path. Those were the public reasons to give it back. Dina Merrill and her two sisters did sell it to Trump. This is a great story mentioning Dina and the sale in Vanity Fair if it will link. BTW, I think Dina's mother was actually one of the greatest socialites. A socialite, politician and brilliant businesswoman.

R162 Obviously not, although she knew her. Mrs. Bloomingdale was the daughter of a doctor, not a lemon rancher, and the wife of an heir to the Bloomingdale's department store clan who invented the credit card: her husband Alfred started the Diners Club. And her birth name was Betty, although she went by Betsy, so her name was definitely not Elinor. And her husband was not a sadomasochist with a mistress who kissed and told (claiming to have done much more than that) looking for palimony after he died. My friend's husband was a developer who died relatively young himself.

The woman I'm speaking of was an acquaintance of Nancy Reagan because they were both on the boards of several charities together, although she was a relatively liberal Democrat and friends with Pat Brown, once governor of California and father of Jerry Brown. And Mrs. Reagan, while a special case - she was the First Lady, after all - is an example of what I meant above: born to humble circumstances (her mother Edith was an actress in vaudeville) and adopted by Loyal Davis, the Chicago doctor her mother married must have helped her ascent, but she made her own way in the world - some saying she got ahead by giving head - married well, although you'd have never know it then, and the rest is history. In Los Angeles, a place without a lot of history and so not many old families to decide who makes the grade and who does not. And not to make the same pun twice, but one where it's said to be easier to get ahead.

There are stories in it, though. The first time I was in her home in the early 1980's, I was sitting on a sofa sort of idly stoking a mink pillow and said something fairly unkind about the Reagan's politics - certainly not Nancy's oral skills - when she interjected, mildly, "You know, the last time she was here, Nancy was sitting right where you are" and didn't say anything else before resuming the conversation on a different topic. I've never been put down so well nor so gently before or since. And her daughter briefly dated Robert Kardashian long before he married Kris. LA can be a very small town.

OP again, and just wanted to add that I love all the responses, even those that don't agree with me. You bitches sure are knowledgeable and entertaining!

R164, your friend sounds like a great lady of the old school, which she probably was. What a kind, indirect but unmistakable way to say, "please don't make unpleasant remarks about people I have received in my home."

R166 I agree, that was brilliant.

Andy Warhol.

[quote]r151 It’s extremely difficult to reach the top -

You've got to climb Mount Everest to reach the Valley of the Dolls. It's a brutal climb to reach that peak. You stand there. Waiting for the rush of exhilaration; but, it doesn't come. You're alone, and the feeling of loneliness is overpowering.

[quote]r161 Or, like Anne Woodward mentioned above, one of Dominick Dunne's "Two Mrs. Grenvilles," you can achieve a place in society, however tenuous, by marriage despite some blots on your past but you lose it when your reason for being there - your husband - is dead. Especially if you shot him.

If any little gaylings never saw the miniseries based on the Woodward marriage... they really MUST ! !

R170

Can you imagine if Dunne had lived? The book he'd write about the Trump family would be a must read.

Any writer who seriously delves into writing about that family will surely suffer a brain hemorrhage... simply from disgust.

Can you imagine spending YEARS researching them??

LA Society = the scions of the land, oil, and rail barons: Dohenys, Chandlers, Baldwins/ Newcomers compared with East Coast Society, but they thought they were better than "movie people" (esp. the Jews).

They still, or at least until recently, do, R174. Dorothy Buffum Chandler's efforts - in the 1960's - to get Jewish Angelenos to donate to building the Music Center was a first. It's not that they wouldn't give money. They did so happily. It's just that they were never asked before that.

That said, some of the Jews, or at least until recently, still did: the "movie people;" the Mayers, Goetzes, Warners, etc. looked down on the "television people."

It's always about who got there first, not who does it best.

I didn’t know that Julia Child was from a wealthy family. They had a stationery empire (they were Cranes big rival) and were one of the founding families of Pasadena.

R169:

Boobies, boobies, boobies.

Janet deCordova was one of the greats and she did it with no money or family behind her. Her husband Freddie was Johnny Carson's longtime producer and before that, Jack Benny's, but he worked for his living.

Matt Tyrnauer's "Once Upon A Time in Beverly Hills" is a great story.

[quote]R177 Boobies, boobies, boobies.

Goddamn society broads!

I didn't have dough handed to me because of my good cheekbones, I had to work for it.

Without contest, it's Cobina Wright Jr.

Jews (usually the Germans, the Lace Curtain Irish of Jewry) were instrumental in starting major orchestras. The Cleveland Orchestra owed a lot to generations of the Joseph family--Joseph & Feiss, the high end suit makers. Run into the ground by Hugo Boss.

Dawn Davenport. The belle of Baltimore society.

R178

Thanks for posting that. It was so interesting.

Jesus.

Classic look. Massive amounts of charity work. Memorable death. Large fan base. Relevant. Current topic of discussion.

^^ don't forget Great Hair

R174, they even lived in a different part of town, didn’t they? The “old LA” money lived in places like Hancock Park, Pasadena and San Marino, while the “movie people” lived in the (IMO much nicer, geographically speaking) familiar Westside neighborhoods we now associate with Los Angeles wealth. Have I got that right?

It’s interesting – what other cities had such sharp divides as to where old and new money lived back in the day (realizing that these lines have blurred since the pre-war days)?

Funny in light of this topic: If you google “old money Los Angeles neighborhoods”, the first that will pop up are Bel Air and Beverly Hills … the very neighborhoods old LA thought of as being for vulgar Hollywood types. They were set up in contrast to the current new-money neighborhoods of Calabasas, Hidden Hills, etc.

Mrs. Nancy Reagan. We'll never see another lady like that.

^^ You mean, with a cock so far down her throat?

On her knees, R188, on the floor of a Buick convertible with Robert Walker driving and Peter Lawford in the front passenger seat.

Nancy Reagan was every bit the elitist snob.

But still, I have a grudging respect for her reported fellatio skills. While there is a lot to despise about her, that isn't among them.

Also, and I might as well admit it because it's the truth, liked her fashion choices.