Statue of slave trader Edward Colston dumped into Bristol harbour

Normally not a fan of this kind of thing, but in this case, good riddance!

Off the plinth

And this will really help Black people in the States...How?

Alternative view

[quote]And this will really help Black people in the States...How?

Maybe it's not about the US...?

If Black lives matter why is Black on Black killings in the UK out of control?

[quote]And this will really help Black people in the States...How?

He bought, sold and transported 84,000, that's why.

R7 And that was over 200 years ago so how does that help Blacks now?

Protests outside the US are meaningless. It's just about vandalizing and looting... and 15 minutes of fame on social media.

It certainly doesn’t hurt

Are you really so racist that you can’t see that removing monuments to racism is a necessary step?

This is a great move but they just left it in the harbor? Can't these statues be melted down or disposed of in an environmentally friendly way? Maybe reuse the metal to create a statue of someone who is of more modern acclaim?

When the mob starts pulling down statues, it's more revolution than protest. And in this case, good riddance.

I've always thought the logical way to dispose of these things is to put them on Ebay, buyer to remove within a week of purchase.

That way the opposing sides (if any) can battle it out for possession online, putting their money where their mouths are. Gets them out of the public domain with a minimum of fuss and reduces the possibility of physical conflict

That would be fencing, r14, it wasn’t the council who got rid of it.

R8 It's like removing a statue of Hitler. People, who are not white supremacists, find those kinds of statues to be offensive.

It's bizarre that it was ever erected in the first place.

[quote]This is a great move but they just left it in the harbor? Can't these statues be melted down or disposed of in an environmentally friendly way? Maybe reuse the metal to create a statue of someone who is of more modern acclaim?

R12, for the last 25 years most, if not all of the US Gulf Coast states have deliberately sunk old oil rigs and even old barges along the coast to create artificial reefs for marine life.

The statue of that old reprobate should be put to good use, maybe revivify the harbor's fauna.

It was erected 125 years ago to mark all the financial contributions and charity word Colston contributed to Bristol.

And where did he get the money to make those financial contributions, R19.

Go ahead. We'll wait.

Selling baked goods!

R20 he devised the Colston Bun!

Bye, Felicia.

Pity, it was a nice statue, unlike all the modern crap we are afflicted with now.

Not familiar with this Colston guy, but why would a city erect a statue of a slave trader?

R25 it was erected in 1895 to mark all his financial contributions to the city.

[quote]And this will really help Black people in the States...How?

It won’t. British people are always copying what we do in the states even though it has nothing to do with them.

Maybe it will help THEM! Not everything revolves around America.

I don't know her.

R28 Britain's racism problem is as endemic and ubiquitous as it is in the U.S., they're just 1000% more committed to denying it.

R30 they are thousands of years into it so it’s not surprising at all.

LOL @ GOOGLE MAPS updating his location

Lol R32 that tickled me

I'm sure the DLers offended by the removal would be defending a statue of a guy who put gays to death remaining, right?

Instead of being an ignorant shit constantly asking "How does this help?" Ask yourself why it remained standing at all considering what an abhorrent monster he was. Why would you want someone like him being celebrated?

It's about time the nasty Brits admit they were the ones that started the slave trade, now they need to admit what they did to India. Glass houses bitches.

R9 They whine incessantly about our toxic culture polluting the world, and then proceed to ape us like toddlers. There is no international application of local American politics surrounding law enforcement.

R28 Black Lives Matter does.

[quote]He bought, sold and transported 84,000, that's why.

19K of whom died on the way

19K men, women and children treated like "stuff"

They need to return the Elgin marbles, too!

Except that they were clearly aware of who that man was and what he had done. They didn't just pick some random statue, so your attempt to lessen what they did and whine about "vandalism" doesn't work.

They knew who they pulled down.

They've defaced Churchill's statue, too. Which... I'm not sure I agree with. Churchill did some evil things, certainly, but he also led the fight against the most dangerous man of the 20th century.

Edward Colton was a monster. But you can't erase history by pulling down statues. Wouldn't it have been better if the city council had decided years ago to put it in the local museum with a permanent display explaining what he did and its impact on the history of Bristol and the UK? We can sometimes learn from the past.

[quote]And this will really help Black people in the States...How?

You think there isn't police abuse in the UK?

R42, then why aren't there statues of Hitler or Pol Pot?

Statues represent a celebration of the person. We can read about these people in history books or better, leave them in the dustbin of history and never have their names remembered.

It's all about context. A statue in a museum with explanatory texts and associated artefacts to describe the crimes of this individual and how they shaped the history of the city is not the same as one in the middle of a town square.

[quote]And this will really help Black people in the States...How?

As r43 points out, other countries that are joining in aren't solely doing it because of George Floyd but because of the police brutality that exists where they live. The French protested to also honor Adama Traoré who died in police custody in France in 2016 and Australia had vigils to draw attention to the Aboriginal people who have endured police brutality.

R42 Why should British taxpayers, whether through public display or through a subsidized private museum be forced to preserve and further eulogize someone who in your words was a monster? Are you aware of exactly how many statues monuments and other VANITY objects have been razed throughout the course of human civilization?

Should Americans remove all statues of George Washington and rename their capital city?

They felt left out of the drama, so dug up whatever tangentially-related local racial tensions they could and paraded around shouting about it.

R46: I swear, some of DL thinks the US is the center of the universe and that anyone under 60 is a millennial. It gets tiring at times....

If people wanted it removed, there are channels available to them. Doing it this way is just mob rule and I hope they're charged with vandalism.

R48: If we as a nation decide to do so, then yes. Deal with it. And cut the crap with this trolling. These statues are awful and good riddance to them. Build one on your own private property (so we can all know what an asshole you are) and stay off the public land.

R51: MARY!!!!!!

R50 The only reason this protest happened is because Brits saw the completely unrelated protests in America and wanted in on it. You're imitating our political struggles.

The people have spoken. That's just the way a statue like that should come down. By popular uprising.

[quote]They've defaced Churchill's statue, too. Which... I'm not sure I agree with. Churchill did some evil things, certainly, but he also led the fight against the most dangerous man of the 20th century.

I admit that Churchill is a bit more complicated, but they do have an unfortunate tendency to handwave how horribly racist he was.

[quote]Should Americans remove all statues of George Washington and rename their capital city?

Context is a thing. And notice that during the 21st century, we've seen a lot of media devoted to the Founding Fathers who weren't slave owners.

R52 - incapable of rational debate and resorts to personal attacks.

[quote]A statue in a museum with explanatory texts and associated artefacts to describe the crimes of this individual and how they shaped the history of the city is not the same as one in the middle of a town square.

There are schools and buildings that Colston funded that still bear his name. A statue celebrating his charitable work is wholly unnecessary.

People have wanted that statue down for decades. Debate has raged in Bristol in local council. Finally a few years ago a new plaque was unveiled which made brief mention of his links to slavery. In fact, an earlier draft mentioned his slave trading alongside that in West Africa.

[quote] They've defaced Churchill's statue, too. Which... I'm not sure I agree with. Churchill did some evil things, certainly, but he also led the fight against the most dangerous man of the 20th century.

You're naive.

[quote][R52] - incapable of rational debate and resorts to personal attacks.

r56, People bragging that they are rationally debating tend to be large Jordan Peterson fanboys.

R59 - I'm a socialist who voted for Corbyn in the last UK General Election so hardly the typical 'Jordan Peterson fanboy'.

I just try not to respond with emotional and poorly reasoned arguments.

[quote] I admit that Churchill is a bit more complicated, but they do have an unfortunate tendency to handwave how horribly racist he was.

He literally created concentration camps like Hitler and is responsible for the murder of MILLIONS. There is nothing complicated about it. The allies belated intervention came only when Germany's ambitions threatened our global interests. Churchill was a racist, murdering barbarian but because he was fighting for ARYAN-lead world, YOU have the luxury of making a "pro's and con's" list in the same way that Neo-Nazis claim Hitler "did a lot of good things," as well. It's grotesque.

[quote]I just try not to respond with emotional and poorly reasoned arguments.

you do you comrade and let us be emotional without you

[quote]People have wanted that statue down for decades. Debate has raged in Bristol in local council. Finally a few years ago a new plaque was unveiled which made brief mention of his links to slavery. In fact, an earlier draft mentioned his slave trading alongside that in West Africa.

The city is aware of the issue and the statue should have been removed a long time ago, with a replacement monument agreed.

In 1999 a new bridge was built:

[quote]Pero's Bridge is a pedestrian footbridge that spans Bristol's floating harbour, and was named in honour of Pero Jones, who came to live in Bristol as the slave of John Pinney.

[quote]The bridge was designed by the Irish artist Eilis O'Connell, in conjunction with Ove Arup & Partners engineers and opened in 1999. Composed of three spans, the outer two are fixed and the central section can be raised to allow tall boats to pass along the floating harbour. The most distinctive features of the bridge are the pair of horn-shaped sculptures which act as counterweights for the lifting section.

[quote]The Bridge is named after Pero Jones, born into enslavement in the West Indies and of African descent, who came to live in Bristol. In 1765, at the age of just 12, Pero Jones was bought by wealthy slave plantation owner and sugar merchant, John Pinney, to work on his Mountravers plantation in Nevis. In 1784 he accompanied the Pinney family in their move from Nevis to Bristol, where they lived in the Georgian House. Pero was personal servant to John Pinney and served for 32 years. The bridge was named in commemoration of one slave who lived and died in the city.

Have you seen the video of the crowds dancing around hysterically when they pulled it down?

[quote]If people wanted it removed, there are channels available to them. Doing it this way is just mob rule and I hope they're charged with vandalism.

Iraq was destroyed and its ancient history pilfered by the US and the west. Start with getting all of those assholes charged with "vandalism" before you bitch about a statue of human garbage not being "respectfully" removed.

I'm not sure British police have much jurisdiction there, R65.

I'm pretty sure some of those British police served in that farce of a war, though, R66.

The burden of slave history is a collective burden, all of western, and eastern, societies benefited from the institution, northern cotton mills, investors, shipping, it trickled throughout all of society for centuries, all of our ancestors benefited in some way. We are all, in the US, living on land stolen from Native Americans who were subjected to outright genocide. Concentrating our focus on a statue or two as sacrificial objects like some voodoo effigy to assuage collective guilt is amusing.

BTW, R66, if they vandalized the area itself, then I'd take issue, but if it was limited to taking down that statue, I see no issue.

R56/R60: I'm R52 and the fact that you think statues of horrible people need to be kept on public property because of some nebulous sense of history is just stupid. Your comment about Washington is trolling, pure and simple. It is not reasoned debate, and deserves the response I gave it. You want reasoned debate? Engage in it. Don't come in here trolling and then cry that no one takes you seriously. Oh, and your Corbyn vote won't get you off the hook for trolling, dear. So save it.

Bristolian gays in the 18th century were prepared to overlook his wicked deeds as he was considered a rich hot daddy.

R68: I assume you'll be head speaker at the dedication ceremony for the new statue of Stalin next week then? And the Ceausescu statue a week later? Honestly, just shut the hell up with this trolling. Everyone is tired of it.

Since we're apparently in the mood for confronting the brutal reality of the slave trade, perhaps the role of Africans in it should also be acknowledged and condemned. British slave traders at any rate did not necessarily run into the African hinterland and grab the locals and haul them onto their slave ships - they were often "given" them by local African "traders" in exchange for goods or at markets.

There's also the Arab slave trade too and it should also not be overlooked that slavery was a big thing in Africa before the Europeans turned up.

R73 = Smelly Anne Conjob

Black Lives Matter activists could more usefully redirect their efforts in trying to stop modern day slavery in the Middle East, Africa and the West.

R73 and her whataboutism..

The Brits didn't invent the slave trade. That's an outrageous statement. They were the first to outlaw it however.

They might as well burn down all of Bristol if they want to be politically correct. Except the parts rebuilt after being bombed during WWII.

R75 So could you, instead of the moving the goalpost for these activist efforts all in service of your own privileged status as a white person.

R78 - I'm of Hindu heritage. My grandparents fled India at the time of Partition.

[quote] But you can't erase history by pulling down statues.

Just

Stop

Saying

This.

It is bullshit.

[quote] Black Lives Matter activists could more usefully redirect their efforts in trying to stop modern day slavery in the Middle East, Africa and the West.

If you could usefully redirect your efforts into being a little less of a duplicitous racist demanding that a U.S. based activist campaign SOLVE GLOBAL THE SLAVE TRADE, maybe BLM will have accomplished some of its aims. It is after all a movement geared towards changing perspectives attitudes and outcomes *domestically* like the one you're burdened with.

[quote] I'm of Hindu heritage. My grandparents fled India at the time of Partition.

My apologies, Ambassador Haley, but this doesn't absolve you from your rhetoric and fallacious argument that because something else is happening the world all efforts to remedy another problem should be abandoned.

America is the worst country! No other country has racial tensions! The London riots never happened!

R81 - I donate regularly to Anti-Slavery International (www.antislavery.org). I hope you will too.

They missed my statue on Parliament Square but got Churchill, oh my sides, ha, ha!

"These children of nature have not the inner toughness and persistence of the European, not those social and moral incentives to progress which have built up European civilization in a comparatively short period."

Yes R82 I lived in Brixton during the 1985 riots: scary.

R83 That's excellent. It's still not a compelling enough case to say that efforts to remedy civic injustice domestically should be abandoned because there are worse things happening in the world. Black lives matter is trying to halt the STATE SANCTIONED slavery of African and minority men here in the U.S. i.e. the prison system that is turning impoverished populations into essentially state owned slaves through unequally enforced penalties. Is that not a good enough cause to back? Why make it a competition if your motive is to remedy injustice as a whole?

[quote]They might as well burn down all of Bristol if they want to be politically correct. Except the parts rebuilt after being bombed during WWII.

It's not about being politically correct, it's about acknowledging the past and events that may have been acceptable at the time but are now horrendous.

There's been a debate for years about Penny Lane in Liverpool, named after slave trader James Penny. Rather than change the name and ban the song, use its infamy to help educate people about the wrongs of the past so we can acknowledge our history.

Don't burn down historic beautiful buildings, but put plaques and statues up to make it clear how they were funded.

Jefferson used to offer rewards for the capture of his runaway slaves some of whom he used as sex toys. The Jefferson Memorial stands unmolested. It was built in 1941 and even then a lot of people thought the government should have known better.

I can't find much interest expressed by BLM activists in the UK for the horrific murders of young black men within the community, mostly due to drugs.

Home Secretary Priti Patel was not a fan of this. Priti is not white but believes that the Conservative boys consider her as one of their own,

Black people in the UK are suspicious of Asians and think of them as complicit with their White oppressors.

What are we going to do, airbrush out of history past figures we disapprove of now, and even some we don't disapprove of? Eg are we going to rename Washington DC etc; after all as prez, Washington was a major slaveholder.

Re Priti Patel, a lot of people on the left of British politics don't like Indians in the same way they don't like Jews.

It's quite easy to take on Patel's abhorrent views without making derogatory comments about her ethnic heritage and background.

It was a generic Victorian bronze of no great artistic merit, so it is no loss it was dumped.

If it had been by a great sculptor like Alfred Stevens , then I would have issues with dumping it. Better to SELL it instead.

Will we be seeing the dismantling of the Jefferson Memorial and the Washington Monument next because they owned slaves? Will Washington state and Washington, D.C. and Jefferson City, MO change their names?

Will we be seeing the dismantling of the Jefferson Memorial and the Washington Monument next because they owned slaves? Will Washington state and Washington, D.C. and Jefferson City, MO change their names?

All the $1 bills will have to be pulped, and the $20s; a huge job. The $2 bills will have to go also, but that will be less work. Obviously Monticello will have to be razed to the ground; nickels everywhere will have to be melted down and recast some other way.

All the $1 bills will have to be pulped, and the $20s; a huge job. The $2 bills will have to go also, but that will be less work. Obviously Monticello will have to be razed to the ground; nickels everywhere will have to be melted down and recast some other way.

He's buried in Bristol Cathedral. Eddie, you in danger, gurl.

They are replacing it with a golden statue of Dame Shirley Bassey.

Trolling about Washington DC, trolling about American money, racist trolling about slavery in Africa and the Arab world, racist trolling about black on black crime. Yep, the racists are hijacking this thread. You all are such sub-human trash.

R101 - paranoid loon

All people who are disagreeing with my thoughts must be trolls!

[quote] Bristol's largest concert hall is called Colston Hall and a bronze statue of Colston stands in Colston Avenue, one of a number of streets in Bristol named after him.

That's from R99's link. Let's start by renaming the concert hall. What about Archie Leach Arena?

Statues come and go. Moi is eternal.

The British are trash and did in fact start the the Atlantic slave trade. And they paid people living a subsistence life to procure humans for profit. What do you think they would do when you dangle coveted trinkets to people living with nothing. This sounds like something FOX news. The nasty Brits did a multitude of horrible things and now try to sweep it all under the rug.

There is definitely a white supremacist troll invasion on this thread. All their posts have huge WW totals. They are spamming this thread. Just FF and ban these cretins.

R106 And you Americans were so kind and wonderful to those Native American Indians. How many millions did you exterminate?

You British cunts really need to STFU. This is a good one and tells many of the atrocities of the rotten teeth people.

R106 - And you lovely Americans originated the lynching of black people and the KKK.

R108 You stupid ass, YOU exterminated them since there was no America then, it was you who stole their land. You can't get out of any of this no matter how hard you try, it is history, you limey bastards.

R111 is a crazed anti-white, anti-British racist who has forgotten to take his meds.

I’m normally not OK with destruction of property, but in this case, I don’t blame them. WTF would a monument of a slave trader even be up in the first place??? Is that really something to be admired??? And yes I know that he supposedly contributed to the British economy in some way, but that doesn’t take away from him being a slave trader.

Who's next?

Again you fuckwads, it was YOU who did the lynchings and raping and stealing of Native American lands and Africans, not America, it did not exist, nope you can't get out of it no matter what. Keep trying schmucks.

R115 - I didn't realise the KKK was in fact a British organisation.

[quote]Again you fuckwads, it was YOU who did the lynchings and raping and stealing of Native American lands and Africans, not America,

Idiot.

They've been protesting and ripping down statues and moments in the UK for years. This ain't no revolution.

Can someone remind me why you had the Civil war.....O that's right..because you wanted to keep the slave trade.

Poor R115, he flunked American History at school.

R115 So as soon as you gained Independence from the British you gave all the land back to the Native Americans....Yes?

Keep trying you nitwits, and have a good time with Brexit! Perhaps you could fly some of the hags you call women to Russia to sell pussy and make some cash for the Queen!

[quote] The British are trash and did in fact start the the Atlantic slave trade.

There is a country called Spain you might learn something about.

I hate this stuff. Put the statue in a museum explaining who he was, what he did and why it was erected in the first place. Then people would learn something instead of just erradicating the ugly past and learning zero.

You might also like to acquaint yourself with the Arab and Ottoman slave trade while you're at it.

Or the Jewish participation in the slave trade.

R122 - have you considered pimping out the beauteous Kellyanne to President Xi to help with your foreign debt?

Keep trying you nitwits, and have a good time with Brexit! Perhaps you could fly some of the hags you call women to Russia to sell pussy and make some cash for the Queen!

Yes the British are the worst people in the entire world....they even dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan....O sorry that was you!

Ah, all the limeys and their limey denial. Stop arguing with the limey trolls. They know what they did.

And soon they’ll all be speaking Russian.

R129 - and all the Yanks will be speaking Mandarin.

[quote] erradicating the ugly past

Stop. Just stop repeating this nonsense.

R129 I thought most americans are already speaking Spanish.

[quote]Can someone remind me why you had the Civil war.....O that's right..because you wanted to keep the slave trade.

Taxation.

[quote] I thought most americans are already speaking Spanish.

No, Papi, but we're getting a lot of Spanish immersion.

R129 It was the British who first abolished slavery.

So, r135? They still did it and brought it to the states.

And the US perpetuated it until 1865.

R136 Slavery was abolished in the UK in 1807. It was abolished in the USA in 1865.

So what, r138? It doesn't make it better. They still did it and are responsible for both.

R136 And you brought smallpox infected blankets to the Native Indian reservations.

[quote] And you brought smallpox infected blankets

Even on DL, no one is that old.

R139 It states in the Bible Before you take the splinter out of someone else's eye....remove the log from yours.

Are white people today responsible for what their ancestors did? Like Original Sin?

Slavery was not abolished in Brazil until 1888.

[quote]Slavery was abolished in the UK in 1807.

No, it was still legal in most of the empire for another 26 years.

The move in 1807 nominally abolished the slave trade, but what it really did was encourage the slave ship captains to dump people overboard if they thought they were about to be caught by the Royal Navy.

R138 In 1772 slavery was found to be without legal foundation in England and Wales. The slave trade was abolished in the British Empire in 1807. Slavery was abolished in the British Empire in 1833.

[quote] And you brought smallpox infected blankets to the Native Indian reservations.

No that's a myth. You can look it up. r140

Jeffrey Amherst was the only example of the smallpox strategy. And it did not involve a Native American reservation. It was one feeble attempt that didn't accomplish it's goal.

R143 According to Black people YES THEY ARE!

R148 - like all Germans born after 1945 are responsible for the murder of 6 million Jews.

The US slaveholders like Jefferson and Washington knew it was wrong to hold slaves but they depended on the slave economy for their livelihood. As Lord Mansfield said in the Somerset case at R146, slavery is so odious that nothing can be allowed to uphold it, whatever the consequences - that was in 1772 and applied to England and Wales.

Protesters say the statue slipped and fell into the water.

"The wolf by the ears," was Jefferson's view of slavery. He had to keep going, though, or his beloved Monticello would have collapsed along with all his money.

It really is time to pulp the $2 bill.

Some of these statues show not be destroyed and thrown in the river. e.g., the one above, Robert E. Lee in Virginia, etc. They should be put in museums so that we have a history of what happened, how the statue come to be and who these people were. Destroying history doesn't change it just because you can't see it.

^^ SHOULD NOT be destroyed.

Eddie had quite the bulge according to the statue in question.

r111/r115 is a the Troll, on another bender

All Peoples oppress other Peoples. We can't help it. We're humans. Assholes by birth.

There is no justification for a memorial to this heinous man. Congratulations to the people fo Bristol for rising up and literally dumping this

[quote]R3 And this will really help Black people in the States...How?

You don’t think that addressing and (hopefully) decreasing racism helps whites, too?

The racist British deplorables on the Daily Fail are upset their precious idol’s monument has been toppled. There really are more racist people out there than you realize.

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

[quote]R180 There really are more racist [British] people out there than you realize.

I don’t doubt it.

It wasn’t that long ago they were marketing gollywog sweaters for the entire family.

More Brit racism.

[quote] Are white people today responsible for what their ancestors did? Like Original Sin?

Are white people today stupid enough to be calling their fathers and grandfathers their 'ancestors?'

EVERY generation of whites has held power over and exploited blacks in this country while maintaining a stranglehold over all the social mechanisms and routes to power for themselves. Think about that.

"Eyes on the prize, lads."

Oh, the troll is Indian. That explains a lot with regards to his attitude towards people of African descent.

[quote] statue in a museum with explanatory texts and associated artefacts to describe the crimes of this individual and how they shaped the history of the city is not the same as one in the middle of a town square.

The council didn't WANT the the statue in a museum. They WANTED it in the town square. The explanatory text recently added to the statue is highly airbrushed.

The protests in the UK don't make much sense to me. In the US, most Black people are descended from Africans who were shipped to America as slaves and these ancestors often part of American settlements for as long as most white people's ancestors. Black Americans are an integral part of America.

In the UK, on the other hand, most Black people are either recent arrivals or descendents of immigrants who moved there in the fifties, sixties and seventies. They were economic migrants who moved there of their own free will. If the society is as racist as they claim it is why didn't they move back to the Caribbean Islands? No one was holding them back against their will.

And if it is still so racist and horrible to minorities why do hundreds, if not thousands, of Africans still undertake dangerous journeys on boats almost every other week, with most of them wanting to go and live in the UK? Not to mention the quite significant immigration from the Caribbean islands and countries like Nigeria.

Obviously there is racism in the UK, but it seems to me that much of the protesting in the UK is due to people there treating the US protests as a #metoo moment and wanting to jump on the bandwagon.

Colston used to brand women and children in the chest with a hot iron for the overseas journey. And 20,000 out of the 100,000 he enslaved died at sea and were thrown overboard. I’d say that doesn’t deserve a statue, much less all the other recognition he gets in Bristol.

This is worse than RuPaul's Drag Race UK!

If you search for the location of the statue on Google Maps, the little flag shows up in the harbor.

[quote] If the society is as racist as they claim it is why didn't they move back to the Caribbean Islands?

"If blacks don't like being treated like shit why don't they just go back to where they came from?"

THAT is what you decided to share on this thread? That's your big takeaway here?

173 posts and the only one with a modicum of thought, perspective, and reason is R169.

It makes no sense to blame 'the British' for atrocities that occurred during the height of its power as an Empire, as if nationality had anything to do with it. Atrocities are always committed by those in power over those without it.

It's the history of the world, really. People consolidate power and then, being people, they go on to use that power in unspeakable ways. Not just the British. Not just the Americans. It's the history of the entire world. Get a little power and a little money and then go on a drunken campaign of carnage and abuse of those a little weaker.

Don't blame the people who committed atrocities for the atrocities they committed. Genius, R175.

Why blame? What do you get from that, R176?

A big ol' hard-on, I'd wager.

What do we get from holding countries responsible for the atrocities they commit? Really?

When do we hold Haiti responsible for killing every single white person?

We have riots around every 10 years in the UK, the lockdown has just brought this on a bit sooner than usual.

Unlike the USA Black people were not brought to the UK as slaves. They chose to migrate to Britain in the 1950s and 60s as economic migrants. If they are all so unhappy why not go back to the cultural roots of Africa or the Carabien. They are not prisoners in the UK and are free to leave when ever they like.

R176 Don't blame the people who committed atrocities for the atrocities they committed. Genius,

I am not responsible for what someone did 200 years ago. And if you belive I am then YOU have a big problem.

R182 But you've also made it clear you don't think what happened 200 years ago was a problem. Your response to genocide and ethnic cleansing is "It happens." That's sad. You're responsible for that attitude.

And the events of the past have lasting consequences.

[quote] If they are all so unhappy why not go back to the cultural roots of Africa or the Carabien. They are not prisoners in the UK and are free to leave when ever they like.

First of all, it's not spelled "Carabien," you French troll. The main point to note is that the UK is their home; and also there is no automatic right for a UK citizen to go off to live in Jamaica or Nigeria.

[quote] Unlike the USA Black people were not brought to the UK as slaves. They chose to migrate to Britain in the 1950s and 60s as economic migrants. If they are all so unhappy why not go back to the cultural roots of Africa or the Carabien. They are not prisoners in the UK and are free to leave when ever they like.

You lying, gormless sack of shit. Why is this not the first time you've been on here trying to say SLAVERY DID NOT EXIST IN BRITAIN and that black people were never there before the 50s and 60s? Both are obviously lies.

[quote] Admiral Sir John Hawkins of Plymouth, a notable Elizabethan seafarer, is widely acknowledged to be "the Pioneer of the English Slave Trade". In 1554–1555, Hawkins formed a slave trading syndicate of wealthy merchants. He sailed with three ships for the Caribbean via Sierra Leone, hijacked a Portuguese slave ship and sold the 300 slaves from it in Santo Domingo. During a second voyage in 1564, his crew captured 400 Africans and sold them at Rio de la Hacha in present-day Colombia, making a 60% profit for his financiers. A third voyage involved both buying slaves directly in Africa and capturing a Portuguese ship with its cargo; upon reaching the Caribbean, Hawkins sold all the slaves. On his return, he published a book entitled An Alliance to Raid for Slaves.[citation needed] It is estimated that Hawkins transported 1,500 enslaved Africans across the Atlantic during his four voyages of the 1560s, before stopping in 1568 after a battle with the Spanish in which he lost five of his seven ships. The English involvement in the Atlantic slave trade only resumed in the 1640s after the country acquired an American colony (Virginia).[29]

[quote] By the mid 18th century, London had the largest African population in Britain, made up of free and enslaved people, as well as many runaways. The total number may have been about 10,000.[30] Owners of African slaves in England would advertise slave-sales and rewards for the recapture of runaways.[31][4]

[quote] A number of freed slaves managed to achieve prominence in British society. Ignatius Sancho (1729–1780), known as 'The Extraordinary Negro', opened his own grocer's shop in Westminster. He was famous for his poetry and music, and his friends included the novelist Laurence Sterne, David Garrick the actor and the Duke and Duchess of Montague. He is best known for his letters which were published after his death. Others such as Olaudah Equiano and Ottobah Cugoano were equally well known, and along with Ignatius Sancho were active in the abolition campaign.

Triangular trade

The three-way trade in the North Atlantic Main article: Triangular trade By the 18th century, the slave trade became a major economic mainstay for such cities as Bristol, Liverpool and Glasgow, engaged in the so-called "Triangular trade". The ships set out from Britain, loaded with trade goods which were exchanged on the West African shores for slaves captured by local rulers from deeper inland; the slaves were transported through the infamous "Middle Passage" across the Atlantic, and were sold at considerable profit for labour in plantations. The ships were loaded with export crops and commodities, the products of slave labour, such as sugar and rum, and returned to Britain to sell the items.

The Isle of Man and the transatlantic slave trade The Isle of Man was involved in the transatlantic African slave trade. Goods from the slave trade were bought and sold on the Isle of Man, and Manx merchants, seamen, and ships were involved in the trade.[32]

I agree with the above poster that instead of destroying these statues in a vain effort to erase the past, they should be placed in a museum with explanations of a) why the statues were erected in the first place and b) why they were chosen to be removed from public spaces. It could be an educational experience for people to see how the values of a particular society changed over time, and why certain things from the past are now unacceptable.

Of course, we're living in an age of mob mentality where actually thinking and debating over things is not the norm anymore.

For the hundredth time, the council didn't WANT the statue placed in a museum! They WANTED the statue to remain in the park!!!

Now, when it is fished out, it likely be placed rightfully in a museum. And the reason why it will be in that museum is because of the revolt of the public.

Not because of the the politicians and local historians, who, as ever, do jack shit.

R184 First of all, it's not spelled "Carabien," you French troll. The main point to note is that the UK is their home; and also there is no automatic right for a UK citizen to go off to live in Jamaica or Nigeria.

Then go there illegally if you hate the UK so much! Since when did the law mean anything to Black people?

R185 You lying, gormless sack of shit. Why is this not the first time you've been on here trying to say SLAVERY DID NOT EXIST IN BRITAIN and that black people were never there before the 50s and 60s? Both are obviously lies.

Go back to school finish your education then get a job and stay off drugs and try and stay away from your bros in the gangs in your hood!

R181 The UK had a Black population way before the 1950's.

The Race riots of 1919 while not specifically anti-Black (they targeted all immigrants) are pretty shameful, as was the response of the UK Government.

Did they get it out of the river yet?

[quote]Unlike the USA Black people were not brought to the UK as slaves. They chose to migrate to Britain in the 1950s and 60s as economic migrants. If they are all so unhappy why not go back to the cultural roots of Africa or the Carabien. They are not prisoners in the UK and are free to leave when ever they like.

You're really quite ignorant of British history and Britain's relationship with Jamaica and the West Indies aren't you?

Have you ever heard of Windrush?

Have you ever heard of the Commonwealth?

Have you ever heard of Stephen Lawrence?

I'm learning so much from this thread. I'm going to graduate from DataU.

On the flipside, kudos to the officials had the stones to do it themselves - a statue of Belgian King Leopold II was removed over the weekend.

He deserves mention alongside the likes of Pol Pot. His colonial rule oversaw the death of 10 million in the Belgian Congo. We're talking genocide, rampant disease and colonies of child soldiers.

William Gladstone is now being posthumously cancelled because his father was a slave-owner. Gladstone himself opposed slavery and backed home rule for Ireland. This is getting a bit silly now.

You know who was a slave-owner and a paedophile? The prophet Muhammad. Should all the mosques in the UK be knocked down?

A mosque isn't a statue - and neither is a straw man.

Muhammad was basically the Jim Jones of his time. No shit. He was that bad.

The world has gone mad!

That Alice in Wonderland statue in Central Park needs to go, everyone knows she was into bestiality.

Tower Hamlets council in London is doing the smart thing and moving a few statues of slave traders - no, not statues of Churchill, just slave traders - into storage so they are not vandalised. They will then later be put on display in some educational format.

The BLM fiasco in the UK is causing a massive amount of people to now start moving towards the Far Right .

The UK let in tons of immigrants just for them to sit on the dole. It was madness.

Churchill was a cunt, and the BRF was full of Nazis.

The BLM types in the UK are appropriating the struggles and history of Black Americans to scream and protest.

If all the protests cause infection rates to go up again, the same SJW cunts will be screaming in a few weeks about how more people of color are dying of Covid, which was already the case, and how this is because of a racist society. These attention whores have no commonsense.

They should dredge him up, then sink him back in the harbor for the birds or the barnacles or whatever. Make it so that you can see him sticking up out of the water. Put a plaque on the sidewalk telling the story of his relocation.

But they need to leave Winston alone. Oh, they can stick a sign on him during protests or whatever they like, but they can't pull his statue down.

[quote]The BLM fiasco in the UK is causing a massive amount of people to now start moving towards the Far Right .

It's not a fiasco, and with the exception of the professional contrarians there seems to be a real change of feeling about a willingness to accept the UK's previous role in the slave trade and the impact centuries of racism is having on the UK's black citizens today.

As for the far right, there are counter protests including one where a bald tattooed man looked like he was making a Nazi salute.

Incidentally 4 members of a Neo Nazi group were convicted and sentenced yesterday. They were mainly obsessed about Jews rather than blacks but still.

[quote]The BLM fiasco in the UK is causing a massive amount of people to now start moving towards the Far Right .

It's not a fiasco, and with the exception of the professional contrarians there seems to be a real change of feeling about a willingness to accept the UK's previous role in the slave trade and the impact centuries of racism is having on the UK's black citizens today.

As for the far right, there are counter protests including one where a bald tattooed man looked like he was making a Nazi salute.

Incidentally 4 members of a Neo Nazi group were convicted and sentenced yesterday. They were mainly obsessed about Jews rather than blacks but still.

Miss Hitler contestant!

[quote]The BLM fiasco in the UK is causing a massive amount of people to now start moving towards the Far Right .

That's not even true. The people who want to move to the Far Right did a long time ago with the rise of Farage and Brexit.

[quote]The BLM fiasco in the UK is causing a massive amount of people to now start moving towards the Far Right .

That's not even true. The people who want to move to the Far Right did a long time ago with the rise of Farage and Brexit.

The far right had it's minute - now Britain has buyer's remorse.

[quote]The people who want to move to the Far Right did a long time ago with the rise of Farage and Brexit.

Brits chose conservative parties because they were ignored by Labour and saw no difference between Farage and Corbyn.

Most of the people who wrote the American constitution were slave owners so destroy all statues of them in the USA.

The People who built the Pyramids in Egypt were slaves so let's destroy all of them too!

The Prophet of one of the fastest-growing religions in the world had slaves so shall we destroy the places of worship?

Just remember everyone the Nazis were left-wing socialists who wanted to destroy free speech.

Exactly - anyone who finds the Far Right in any way seductive has already had ample opportunity to justify their choices, r214.

If we're going to talk history, let's be honest & go back to the source. There was slavery in Africa before any white man ever got within landfall of the Continent. Dealing to white people was just an expansion of the market. Without inter-continental slavery + African & Arab traders, there would be no Atlantic slave trade. White explorers barely made it in-country without catching tropical diseases or being attacked/killed by wildlife. Nevermind a whole army going in to kidnap Africans, then slug their way back to the coast.

I'm in no way saying this to deny or distract from racist White Colonialism.The point is that radical groups like BLM are not about fairness and/or equality, they're about attention seeking, anger & revenge for mainly middle class blacks. Extremists like BLM not only deny history, they deny humanity. Saying we're all human beings means exactly that: all races are capable of every level of human behaviour.

These monuments shouldn't be destroyed, they should be put into historical context in museums. Redress the balance & tell the entire history, don't erase the parts you oppose.

[quote]Dealing to white people was just an expansion of the market...

[quote]Without inter-continental slavery + African & Arab traders, there would be no Atlantic slave trade...

[quote]White explorers barely made it in-country...

[quote]I'm in no way saying this to deny or distract from racist White Colonialism...

[quote]The point is that radical groups like BLM are not about fairness...

[quote] Extremists like BLM...

[quote]Saying we're all human beings means exactly that: all races...

TL,DR: All Lives Matter.

R217 BlaCk PeOplE MaDE THemSElVES SLavES!!!!!!

[quote]I'm in no way saying this to deny or distract from racist White Colonialism.

Yes you are.

Oh and then you add a healthy dose of

[quote]Extremists like BLM not only deny history, they deny humanity.

"Blacks don't like humanity!"

There are just as many white people in that crowd as there are black.

The world is changing. Get with it or get over it.

There is a major leftwing agenda to destabilize the UK and wreck Brexit. All the media including this forum is controlled by the left in order to stifle any other opinion other than there own. Beware, everyone, you are being played.

Be thankful we haven't yet been directed to the insights of Candace Owens in this thread.

R220 Not sure Boris Johnson and the Tory Party need any help from the Left to destabilize the UK, they are doing a sterling job of it on their own.

R222 As is reported by every left-wing media outlet in existence.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

r219 If we're all human that means black people are capable of all human behaviour, including slavery. And I'm sorry if you don't like history, but that doesn't make it false.

R224 All of the UK media including the Daily Mail is now left-wing!

r255 = #AllLivesMatter

The Coliseum in Rome was built using Jewish slaves brought back by Titus after his conquest of Judaea, maybe that should be knocked down?

R227 You would be well served to read some of the histories of slavery by Henry Louis Gates, who is a leading African American scholar and researcher. Slavery was big business in Africa as well as other places. This doesn’t mean that this statue shouldn’t come down, but the history of slavery is more complicated than just the English. Also implicated are the French, the Spanish, the Dutch, the Portuguese, the Africans and the Arabs.

Everyone has had their turn being a shithead.

R228 don’t bother arguing, people uneducated in history can’t think with nuance. It’s all about whatever is on their mind at the moment.

Go pull down the hundreds of statues of black slave sellers that dot the British landscape, then.

Funny how the #NotAllSlaversWereWhite activists are all of a sudden promoting, say, statues of Confederate icons erected in the midst of the Civil Rights Era and statues of slave drivers who caused the deaths of tens of thousands NOW go into museums with careful signage noting the important facts that Blacks Were In On It Too.

2 weeks ago they were happy for said statues to remain in broad daylight with little to no signage at all, so the general public are put firmly In Their Place.

There’s a lot of assumptions about how people think R231. I don’t think there are any #notAllSlaversWereWhite activists anywhere. It’s more about the people arguing that England did it alone and putting it in the context of history.

It wouldn’t bother me if all the statues are removed, no need to glorify them. But the history is what it is, regardless of how many statues are destroyed.

Removing statues of British slave traders in Britain doesn't mean slavery didn't occur in Babylon and Egypt and Africa and everywhere else. By all means, if statues of Babylonian and Egyptian and African slave traders are in your town, contact your local council and advocate for their removal.

It's amazing how triggered the Right get about it.

R226 I fear that I've found Jacob Rees-Mogg's DL account.